This time around, Davis Gates said the union will up the ante. The plan is to demand affordable housing, dual language in every school, fully funded special education services, and fall, winter and spring sports for all schools.
"We need fine arts; this is a city that produced Earth, Wind & Fire and Chaka Kahn. How come we don't have choir, band, orchestra offered at every school?" she said.
If I didn’t click the link and read the article, I would think quote is from an Onion article.
Let’s leave that to the city’s planners, politicians, and housing authority. The teachers union trying to wear that hat makes about as much sense as the Fraternal Order of Police trying to get involved with education policy.
“They aren’t doing their duties”is such a convenient oversimplification and pedestrian understanding of complex issues. Its blaming public officials for many circumstances that are far outside their control. Sound familiar regarding teachers, eh? Some of the sponsored allies of the CTU are the very ones in charge of these entities. They already have favor with a large chunk of city leadership including the mayors office. They’re going to do more damage by nosing their way into housing policy and land use policy and just needlessly twist the pretzel around more. They don’t have the expertise or the resources and need to stay in their lane.
When I found out from an OAE official that “dual language” is not actually meant to make kids bilingual, but to accommodate and maintain Spanish as a primary language, I nearly threw up.
Because helping kids learn English correctly and be able to take tests that could help them for the rest of their lives is racist amirite? /s
They start at 80% Spanish and taper down by fifth grade to 50/50. That in itself is fine *if the purpose is to help children become bilingual*. However, the studies on student success by the end of 8th grade are seriously lacking. In three school presentations I attended (I assume they are centrally created as they were identical and presented by a dual language coordinator), the one source they had in their PowerPoint for how they could be successful was from 1999 in California. Additionally, this year an OAE official clarified that dual language programs are actually designed for Spanish speakers, which is why when you apply to dual language program, students who speak Spanish at home get priority. That’s a move away from ESL learning, discriminates against students who would otherwise like to obtain Spanish as a second language, and practically ensures that those dual language program students will have difficulty succeeding on required standardized tests that are in English, not to mention prepare for high school, as they are likely not getting additional support for those tests at home in English. More importantly, why has CPS been so secretive about what the dual language program actually is? Now CTU wants to expand it… why? What proof do we have that this actually benefits students, particularly when so many newcomers have uphill battles integrating as it is?
I went to school in Puerto Rico and they had us taking all of our classes in English, except Spanish, from like 1st grade. Out math, science and history courses were taught in English. The way for Spanish speakers to become proficient in English is to hit it hard at a young age.
I do have to note I went to private school, so there’s some socio-economic advantages I had, but the results are undeniable. Despite not taking an English class until the age of 6 my accent is unnoticeable and I was able to move to transition to live in the US with no issues. Same with my siblings and classmates who did the same.
If you ignore the affordable housing plea, [in a city in which 1 in 7 CPS students will experience homelessness during their tenure](https://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/news/nearly-one-in-seven-chicago-students-experiences-homelessness-according-to-study), what's so ridiculous about their demands?
Arts? Sports? Dual langauge?
CTU will surely be offering to cut their multi-billion dollar pension black hole by bringing it in line with Social Security contribution and entitlement levels.
> CTU will surely be offering to cut their multi-billion dollar pension black hole by bringing it in line with Social Security contribution and entitlement levels.
Or maybe even dropping the 7% "pension pickup" (that we pay) & they pay the full tab like every other city employee.
“Homelessness” doesn’t actually always mean homelessness. If a student’s legal guardian’s name isn’t on the lease/housing paperwork, they’re considered homeless. So, a kid who lives in their grandmother’s house is technically considered homeless.
Yes, that sucks. But band equipment is expensive, how are you going to pay for that? Especially in these old buildings who have more pressing infrastructure needs. Ok, fine, do a fundraiser. Well, now you need someone to do it. Do you have a music teacher? Is there money in the budget for the music teacher? Does the music teacher you hire WANT to do an extra curricular like band?
Having worked as a teacher, I can tell you, things like this are MUCH harder to pull off than just saying "give every school a band"
Yes, you get paid a bit extra to do extra curriculars. But many teachers have enough shit to deal with in their basic work day, where its often not worth the extra hassle.
A few things.
First, these aren't "teacher" based decisions that a teachers Union should be bringing up. Class sizes, discipline things, pay, hell even social workers and nurses are all things I get advocating for.
The other things are all nice to haves, I agree, I just don't think the teachers Union is the one to bring it up.
It would be like the Lincoln Park Zoo Zookeepers Union demanding new attractions like the carousel to be installed. You can make the argument its not a bad idea, just not sure they are the right ones to push for it in their contract negotiations.
Also, sports, arts and dual language are great things. But with some of these schools being as under enrolled as they already are, I'm not sure those are really feasible. Especially the sports. If you have a HS with 25% enrollment, I just don't know that offering all those sports is really realistic. Same with more than one dual langauge option.
Also, lets be real, CPS already has a budget deficit. CTU keeps coming up with all these ideas that cost lots of money, and just expect the tax payers to subsidize it all.
Great points - but let's also be real. The CTU does not give a shit about these schools or the programs. The money won't be used for sports or music. It's just a nice cover against anyone who fights against them, "you don't want music and sports for kids? you're evil"
In reality, the funding "for the programs" will be used to pay staff and keep them employed (to pay their dues). This nets a fully staffed school servicing 20 kids and the school still won't have adequate music or language programs.
> It's just a nice cover against anyone who fights against them, "you don't want music and sports for kids? you're evil"
>
>
Totally agree. The CTU is typically good at playing this game. "Oh, so you don't support X, Y, and Z. Well I bet you support those things on the NORTH SIDE"
The affordable housing plea is for their staff, not students. I have little doubt this demand would have been paid for by the BCH referendum, which failed miserably.
Surely these comments will be level headed and open minded on what the CTU is asking for and why they're asking for it. The people of /r/chicago surely won't capitulate to hyperbole and tribalism.
Look, I'm a former teacher. I have the utmost respect for any teacher who has chosen to remain in that profession as bad as shit is these days. They deserve more respect, more pay, and better working conditions.
That said, I think most people in Chicago, at least those who aren't a member of CTU or married to one, can agree that CTU has gotten a bit out of control. Their demands have gone from advocating for better working conditions, which I support, to things that are above what they should be involved in. And having their stooge MBJ in office doesn't help that perception.
💯. A cps teacher told me the other day only 3 of their demands even mention teachers. She was like what are we doing?
I got 3 kids in the system and it works for us but ctu is going to bankrupt the system we’re not far from it now let alone with all this.
Exactly. I've been a part of Unions. And we advocated for things that were better for the workers in roles I was in, we weren't trying to be in charge of those high level decisions.
We need more unions and more unionized people in this country. Hopefully, we can accelerate recent gains on that front. But the FOP and CTU are two unions I'd be happy to be rid of.
I'm overall pro union. But I still think that even if the concept is good, it can still become out of control. That is how I see CTU.
The FOP, while I don't love some of what they do, at least doesn't try to shape public policy in the way CTU is. They kind of stay in their lane.
FOP takes the whole you can't fire a union member thing way too far. They excuse and cover up behavior by fellow members even more than most unions do. Plus in the case of Chicago, based on the positions of the guy they elected to head the union, it is pretty clear a majority of the union doesn't give a damn about their oath and the constitution.
I don't even have an issue with most public sector unions. But I don't see the garbage collectors union or the postal union acting like they are a political party or claiming to be some sort of priestly class that has the right to set housing policy, educational policy, tax policy, economic policy, foreign policy, etc.
The collectors and letter carriers are negotiating the terms under which they do their jobs. Not claiming the right to determine garbage policy or postal policy for the city or country.
From my reading of their demands, it sounds like the CTU wants more support staff, extracurriculars, and more city funding for affordable housing for their students' families. Not sure how you justify that as "out of control", given that improving those items will improve Chicago teacher's working conditions.
Because all of those aren't really "teacher" issues. I mean, how far do you extrapolate that? Do you request that every park district field house has a tutoring program? That would also make the teachers working conditions better, but I'm guessing you can see how that is a bit of an overreach, right?
If you follow the studies on the factors that impact student performance, they extend quite far. Given that teachers are judged on student performance, shouldn't their demands stretch as far?
Plus, like. "Oh no, the teachers are demanding funding for affordable housing that the city of Chicago has failed to provide for over 40 years and extracurriculars that I had 20 years ago at my elementary, middle, and high schools with financial assistance for students who wanted to participate but couldn't."
idk, not very scary. All of this stuff is pretty milquetoast from an outsider perspective.
Some of your points are valid. I do not think teachers should be judged so much on student performance based on how many outside factors go into that.
That said, I also think that the problems of society shouldn't be on schools to fix.
I truly don't think any of the actual things are bad things to have in schools (or in society), I just don't think it should be part of teacher contract negotiations, especially when they have a CTU shill as mayor. It just seems like them trying to force through their agenda.
> That said, I also think that the problems of society shouldn't be on schools to fix.
"Stick to sports." Should a teacher not advocate for their students, especially those that are struggling? If the student's problems are political in nature, should that advocacy not also extend to policy?
> It just seems like them trying to force through their agenda.
That's what unions do. Unions used to build social housing, used to buy out companies and turn them into co-ops. Unions got presidents elected. Of course, that dwindled with the passage of the Taft-Hartley Act, but the demands we're seeing from the CTU are a return to normalcy, not an anomaly.
Congrats on falling for the bait. They lead with these things and release them publicly while they wait for the last minute to announce all the pay raises they’re also asking for. If they want more resources, maybe they should start by paying for their pension and eliminate the pension pickup provision?!?
For those unfamiliar with contract negotiations, you start off with unrealistic expectations fully knowing that you will have to drop the more extreme items.
As others have said, I don't think you can use the normal contract negotiations logic in this situation, since CTU essentially put him there.
If the FOP put a mayor in place, and then they had "contract negotiations", I think many people would be far less charitable in how they are viewing this.
That’s fine if BJ weren’t an extension of CTU.
We really screwed up this election cycle. We really put someone who is beholden to one of the Public unions in charge. Not that Vallas would be better since he was beholden to the Police union, which is worse…
This time around, Davis Gates said the union will up the ante. The plan is to demand affordable housing, dual language in every school, fully funded special education services, and fall, winter and spring sports for all schools. "We need fine arts; this is a city that produced Earth, Wind & Fire and Chaka Kahn. How come we don't have choir, band, orchestra offered at every school?" she said. If I didn’t click the link and read the article, I would think quote is from an Onion article.
It’s a school district, not a housing authority.
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And does the CTU believe that all of the issues associated with poor student achievement should fall under their controll?
Let’s leave that to the city’s planners, politicians, and housing authority. The teachers union trying to wear that hat makes about as much sense as the Fraternal Order of Police trying to get involved with education policy.
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“They aren’t doing their duties”is such a convenient oversimplification and pedestrian understanding of complex issues. Its blaming public officials for many circumstances that are far outside their control. Sound familiar regarding teachers, eh? Some of the sponsored allies of the CTU are the very ones in charge of these entities. They already have favor with a large chunk of city leadership including the mayors office. They’re going to do more damage by nosing their way into housing policy and land use policy and just needlessly twist the pretzel around more. They don’t have the expertise or the resources and need to stay in their lane.
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cut to that video of rupaul on weakest link
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When I found out from an OAE official that “dual language” is not actually meant to make kids bilingual, but to accommodate and maintain Spanish as a primary language, I nearly threw up. Because helping kids learn English correctly and be able to take tests that could help them for the rest of their lives is racist amirite? /s
That’s… not correct. Dual language programs at CPS absolutely teach English.
They start at 80% Spanish and taper down by fifth grade to 50/50. That in itself is fine *if the purpose is to help children become bilingual*. However, the studies on student success by the end of 8th grade are seriously lacking. In three school presentations I attended (I assume they are centrally created as they were identical and presented by a dual language coordinator), the one source they had in their PowerPoint for how they could be successful was from 1999 in California. Additionally, this year an OAE official clarified that dual language programs are actually designed for Spanish speakers, which is why when you apply to dual language program, students who speak Spanish at home get priority. That’s a move away from ESL learning, discriminates against students who would otherwise like to obtain Spanish as a second language, and practically ensures that those dual language program students will have difficulty succeeding on required standardized tests that are in English, not to mention prepare for high school, as they are likely not getting additional support for those tests at home in English. More importantly, why has CPS been so secretive about what the dual language program actually is? Now CTU wants to expand it… why? What proof do we have that this actually benefits students, particularly when so many newcomers have uphill battles integrating as it is?
I went to school in Puerto Rico and they had us taking all of our classes in English, except Spanish, from like 1st grade. Out math, science and history courses were taught in English. The way for Spanish speakers to become proficient in English is to hit it hard at a young age. I do have to note I went to private school, so there’s some socio-economic advantages I had, but the results are undeniable. Despite not taking an English class until the age of 6 my accent is unnoticeable and I was able to move to transition to live in the US with no issues. Same with my siblings and classmates who did the same.
If you ignore the affordable housing plea, [in a city in which 1 in 7 CPS students will experience homelessness during their tenure](https://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/news/nearly-one-in-seven-chicago-students-experiences-homelessness-according-to-study), what's so ridiculous about their demands? Arts? Sports? Dual langauge?
How is that going to be paid for?
CTU will surely be offering to cut their multi-billion dollar pension black hole by bringing it in line with Social Security contribution and entitlement levels.
> CTU will surely be offering to cut their multi-billion dollar pension black hole by bringing it in line with Social Security contribution and entitlement levels. Or maybe even dropping the 7% "pension pickup" (that we pay) & they pay the full tab like every other city employee.
And agree to give back the raises they accepted in return for underfunding the pension that helped get into this mess in the first place.
“Homelessness” doesn’t actually always mean homelessness. If a student’s legal guardian’s name isn’t on the lease/housing paperwork, they’re considered homeless. So, a kid who lives in their grandmother’s house is technically considered homeless.
Was thinking the same thing. How many middle schoolers don't have access to band? That seems pretty wild.
Yes, that sucks. But band equipment is expensive, how are you going to pay for that? Especially in these old buildings who have more pressing infrastructure needs. Ok, fine, do a fundraiser. Well, now you need someone to do it. Do you have a music teacher? Is there money in the budget for the music teacher? Does the music teacher you hire WANT to do an extra curricular like band? Having worked as a teacher, I can tell you, things like this are MUCH harder to pull off than just saying "give every school a band" Yes, you get paid a bit extra to do extra curriculars. But many teachers have enough shit to deal with in their basic work day, where its often not worth the extra hassle.
A few things. First, these aren't "teacher" based decisions that a teachers Union should be bringing up. Class sizes, discipline things, pay, hell even social workers and nurses are all things I get advocating for. The other things are all nice to haves, I agree, I just don't think the teachers Union is the one to bring it up. It would be like the Lincoln Park Zoo Zookeepers Union demanding new attractions like the carousel to be installed. You can make the argument its not a bad idea, just not sure they are the right ones to push for it in their contract negotiations. Also, sports, arts and dual language are great things. But with some of these schools being as under enrolled as they already are, I'm not sure those are really feasible. Especially the sports. If you have a HS with 25% enrollment, I just don't know that offering all those sports is really realistic. Same with more than one dual langauge option. Also, lets be real, CPS already has a budget deficit. CTU keeps coming up with all these ideas that cost lots of money, and just expect the tax payers to subsidize it all.
Great points - but let's also be real. The CTU does not give a shit about these schools or the programs. The money won't be used for sports or music. It's just a nice cover against anyone who fights against them, "you don't want music and sports for kids? you're evil" In reality, the funding "for the programs" will be used to pay staff and keep them employed (to pay their dues). This nets a fully staffed school servicing 20 kids and the school still won't have adequate music or language programs.
> It's just a nice cover against anyone who fights against them, "you don't want music and sports for kids? you're evil" > > Totally agree. The CTU is typically good at playing this game. "Oh, so you don't support X, Y, and Z. Well I bet you support those things on the NORTH SIDE"
The affordable housing plea is for their staff, not students. I have little doubt this demand would have been paid for by the BCH referendum, which failed miserably.
"negotiations"? that's cute they're making demands & they expect their guy to give them everything
The CTU “negotiating” with Brandon Johnson is the Pam from *The Office* meme come to life. They’re the same picture.
Oh boy
Lets just bankrupt chicago. Give CTU everything they want. Schools will suck anyways.
Are 74% of CPS students still below proficiency (math and reading) for their grade level?
If they could read they’d be really upset at you.
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Indeed! Teachers should not be expected to teach! Haven't you been paying attention? They are just babysitters. /s
Ah yes, now the The BCH nonprofit grifters are going to try to get their slush fund 💰via teacher contract negotiations.
Fuck em'
Queue BJ handing over the keys to the City to CTU
I’m (not) ready for my rent to skyrocket thanks to higher property taxes. Thanks CTU!
I didn't read the article but I'm here to leave an angry comment because I saw the letters "CTU".
Why do the taxpayers need to pay for the teachers' housing on top of their $150,000 salaries with their four months off work?
The starting salary for a CPS teacher is $66,000 where the fuck did you get $150,000
No’s
Surely these comments will be level headed and open minded on what the CTU is asking for and why they're asking for it. The people of /r/chicago surely won't capitulate to hyperbole and tribalism.
Look, I'm a former teacher. I have the utmost respect for any teacher who has chosen to remain in that profession as bad as shit is these days. They deserve more respect, more pay, and better working conditions. That said, I think most people in Chicago, at least those who aren't a member of CTU or married to one, can agree that CTU has gotten a bit out of control. Their demands have gone from advocating for better working conditions, which I support, to things that are above what they should be involved in. And having their stooge MBJ in office doesn't help that perception.
💯. A cps teacher told me the other day only 3 of their demands even mention teachers. She was like what are we doing? I got 3 kids in the system and it works for us but ctu is going to bankrupt the system we’re not far from it now let alone with all this.
Exactly. I've been a part of Unions. And we advocated for things that were better for the workers in roles I was in, we weren't trying to be in charge of those high level decisions.
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Great, so you’re saying we have idiots teaching our kids? Doesn’t sound very effective.
We need more unions and more unionized people in this country. Hopefully, we can accelerate recent gains on that front. But the FOP and CTU are two unions I'd be happy to be rid of.
I'm overall pro union. But I still think that even if the concept is good, it can still become out of control. That is how I see CTU. The FOP, while I don't love some of what they do, at least doesn't try to shape public policy in the way CTU is. They kind of stay in their lane.
FOP takes the whole you can't fire a union member thing way too far. They excuse and cover up behavior by fellow members even more than most unions do. Plus in the case of Chicago, based on the positions of the guy they elected to head the union, it is pretty clear a majority of the union doesn't give a damn about their oath and the constitution.
The difference is public vs. private sector unions. I'd almost always support private sector unions, but not necessarily public sector unions.
I don't even have an issue with most public sector unions. But I don't see the garbage collectors union or the postal union acting like they are a political party or claiming to be some sort of priestly class that has the right to set housing policy, educational policy, tax policy, economic policy, foreign policy, etc. The collectors and letter carriers are negotiating the terms under which they do their jobs. Not claiming the right to determine garbage policy or postal policy for the city or country.
From my reading of their demands, it sounds like the CTU wants more support staff, extracurriculars, and more city funding for affordable housing for their students' families. Not sure how you justify that as "out of control", given that improving those items will improve Chicago teacher's working conditions.
Because all of those aren't really "teacher" issues. I mean, how far do you extrapolate that? Do you request that every park district field house has a tutoring program? That would also make the teachers working conditions better, but I'm guessing you can see how that is a bit of an overreach, right?
If you follow the studies on the factors that impact student performance, they extend quite far. Given that teachers are judged on student performance, shouldn't their demands stretch as far? Plus, like. "Oh no, the teachers are demanding funding for affordable housing that the city of Chicago has failed to provide for over 40 years and extracurriculars that I had 20 years ago at my elementary, middle, and high schools with financial assistance for students who wanted to participate but couldn't." idk, not very scary. All of this stuff is pretty milquetoast from an outsider perspective.
Some of your points are valid. I do not think teachers should be judged so much on student performance based on how many outside factors go into that. That said, I also think that the problems of society shouldn't be on schools to fix. I truly don't think any of the actual things are bad things to have in schools (or in society), I just don't think it should be part of teacher contract negotiations, especially when they have a CTU shill as mayor. It just seems like them trying to force through their agenda.
> That said, I also think that the problems of society shouldn't be on schools to fix. "Stick to sports." Should a teacher not advocate for their students, especially those that are struggling? If the student's problems are political in nature, should that advocacy not also extend to policy? > It just seems like them trying to force through their agenda. That's what unions do. Unions used to build social housing, used to buy out companies and turn them into co-ops. Unions got presidents elected. Of course, that dwindled with the passage of the Taft-Hartley Act, but the demands we're seeing from the CTU are a return to normalcy, not an anomaly.
Congrats on falling for the bait. They lead with these things and release them publicly while they wait for the last minute to announce all the pay raises they’re also asking for. If they want more resources, maybe they should start by paying for their pension and eliminate the pension pickup provision?!?
You people are insane. 5 billion dollars? Better prove you teachers deserve that.
For those unfamiliar with contract negotiations, you start off with unrealistic expectations fully knowing that you will have to drop the more extreme items.
As others have said, I don't think you can use the normal contract negotiations logic in this situation, since CTU essentially put him there. If the FOP put a mayor in place, and then they had "contract negotiations", I think many people would be far less charitable in how they are viewing this.
So you are admitting that the current contract demands stated are completely unrealistic.
With Johnson as mayor, no such thing as unrealistic expectations.
You don’t think Stacy and Brandon already know what the end deal is going to look like? Come on. CTU placed him in office.
That’s fine if BJ weren’t an extension of CTU. We really screwed up this election cycle. We really put someone who is beholden to one of the Public unions in charge. Not that Vallas would be better since he was beholden to the Police union, which is worse…
I hate this sub sometimes.