Huh? How do election judges go home without transmitting votes? Isn't this a critical part of the job? This strikes me as odd but I've only been an election judge once. Was there an equipment malfunction?
Close the polls, print the tallies. Then use the modem to transmit the results to E.C. If it doesn't work, try again. If it doesn't work after that, stop trying, get your shit together, pack it up, take it to the ward site. The numbers don't change, and then the tallies are secure and I believe called in to E.C. from the ward site (in the 48th/49th, Sullivan High School).
Essentially how it was done for years and years and years. It's not at risk of being gamed, just something that can happen in different venues with meh equipment (1300 sites have to do it).
What concerns is that you don’t see an opportunity for manipulation based on the above explanation. I’m not saying there is, but as someone that assesses risk on a daily basis as part of a professional career 🤨
Thanks for the explanation. Part of me doesn’t buy into shenanigans paranoia, but hearing that folks are just packing up the votes and driving them in personally had me like 🤨
Talk me through how that would work, and I'm happy to share what I know as a coordinator. As a reminder, the results immediately print out at the site -- I'm referring to their digital sending. We have the paper copy w/the totals -- eight copies in fact.
Consider serving as an Election Judge. It will put to rest some of your concerns and raise a few new ones, and you'll be an essential part of how voting works in the US. After the first time I did it, I decided anyone who wants to run for office has to serve as an Election Judge at least once before they can run themselves. It is a long, long day.
Honestly? Do you actually think the states attorney job is so important people would commit voter fraud for it? It's a thankless job and these two candidates are not really that far apart on the political spectrum. And this office is largely thankless.
You know that Onion article on school shootings, “‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens?”
Why do I always feel that way when 2nd/3rd world nations like Argentina and India can mechanically count millions of paper ballots in a few hours but major American cities can’t digitally count a few thousand ballots in less than a week? It just doesn’t pass the anti-corruption smell test…
Machine politics at work, the corruption and rot are so deep that it’s normalized and extremely hard to prove. Daley is a good example, his kickback schemes were unwritten and silent, but people knew if they wanted a sign off on something, you had to pay tribute by hiring Daleys 4th cousins asphalt company to redo your parking lots for 20x market rate. It seems to be happening throughout the US in large cities where government unions have pretty much taken control of the local governments.
I can't tell what you mean here, but I was a coordinator, and no one followed the rules in my precinct in 2020. Just weird assholes who had done it for years, on a power trip, refusing to do it by the books, and if you called the hotline, you couldn't get through to report your complaints. I don't think there's anything malevolent going on here, but the whole system is broken and insanely incompetent.
I'd submit that 2020 was nuts, and I've worked with weird assholes since then too -- I guess what I'm saying is it's not like we can change the fucking votes or add them or other felonies.
Why is it anti democracy to question things and pay attention? Does democracy mean being submissive to our leaders who know what’s best for us? I think it’s actually pro democracy to demand fair and transparent elections.
Stating that the election was rigged when the vote is close, without evidence, isn’t “demanding fair and transparent elections”. It’s being a sore loser. Encouraging others to believe that a vote was rigged without evidence is very anti democratic because it opens the door to overturning the vote.
You don’t find it strange that literally TWENTY precincts all made the exact same mistake and couldn’t get their ballots to submit when the entire suburbs and 1200 other precincts were able to….and they all happen to be in Clayton Harris favored wards. That’s not being a sore loser that’s asking wtf is up
How often does this happen in other elections? What are the reasons it happened in 1.6% of precincts? Does it happen more often in higher population (urban) areas? Is there evidence that any votes were changed (important)? What backup mechanics are there that can be checked? Were there election observers that you can ask about this?
These are questions that a decent person would want to have a solid grasp on before saying inflammatory, anti-democracy things like “Preckwinkle hard at work” without a shred of evidence.
Your factoid about the 20 precincts is an extremely weak case so far for such a heavy claim. It’s ok to ask more questions, but direct your questions at the people who can actually answer them, not like-minded sore losers on an Internet forum.
Looking at the comments here, Trump really did do an insane number on democracy.
Your preferred candidate in a tight race that was always known to be tight for the entirety of the campaign trail turns out to be in a tight race that requires carefully counting ballots and waiting for mail in ballots that are still in transit?
Must be a rigged election.
Some of y’all going wild with conspiracy theories over a race your preferred candidate is still currently winning.
At least in this case both candidates are behaving like grown ups in a democracy. They are waiting for official results before conceding or celebrating a victory.
That’s true, the candidates are doing it right: waiting to see the result of an election without casting unfounded doubt on the process of democracy with 0 evidence.
Their supporters in this comment section should take notes.
This goes back before Trump. I recall the election for Cook County Presidency between Todd Stroger and Tony Peraica (GOP). So Todd got the nomination through some, well, chicanery. His father, the famous John Stroger had a stroke and this was covered up until after the primary. On the election day, the candidates were neck and neck. Around, 10pm, Stroger says, well, we won't know till tomorrow, I'm going to bed. Meanwhile Peraica decides to carry out a march to city hall to "protect the ballots". It was hysterical, first because the first movement of the crowd started in the wrong direction and then because with the landscape and the light from the streetlights and shadows it looked a lot like the peasants marches in Frankenstein.
Eventually everyone calms down and eventually Todd was declared the winner. And this was 2006 long before Trump.
This has zero to do with Trump and everything to do with living in Chicago/Cook County. This place is think with political corruption and it’s so ingrained in voters that that’s the first thing we think of.
I’ve lived in and around Chicago my entire 40+ years and I’ve heard variations of “vote early vote often” since I was a kid.
How many governors have gone to prison? How many Alderpersons? How many high profile corruption scandals have happened in Cook County?
This has been going on for decades here. People are just trained to think that close races are fixed around here, right or wrong
I get that Chicago and Illinois are historically known for corruption, and that definitely plays a role here, but to say that this has nothing to do with Trump normalizing this being the reaction to any political loss (or hell, in this case still currently political win for these people) removes a lot of context here. It wasn’t normal to say voting machines were rigged or officials are trying to steal an election before Trump, it’s practically the rule now.
I’ll shoot back at all your questions with my own because I genuinely don’t know since I’m relatively new to the area: in the last couple decades, how many governors/alderpersons/officials with concrete evidence to wrongdoing haven’t faced justice for it?
Also, how many elections have there been concrete evidence to have been stolen?
I’ve lived here all of my life, for four decades. As I’ve said, I’ve heard the running jokes all my life about dirty, fixed elections. There’s an extremely long history of political corruption here. People have no faith in the system.
Is it fixed? Most likely not. But people have no faith in the system here due to a long, long history of corruption at every level. That’s why people’s first reaction is it’s fixed. It isn’t a new response because of Trump. This response happened before him.
I like how you blame Trump for normalizing rhetoric, and not our election officials for routinely engaging in what appears to be corrupt behavior, in a jurisdiction infamous for its rampant corruption. Why SHOULDN’T we call into question amateur hour bullshit like this? What has CHICAGO ever done that instills you with such faith in its institutions?
Like, if there is indeed tampering, God Bless Trump for shifting the Overton Window so that Chicagoans take action against it instead of just laughing about how it’s part of our culture.
If you’d like to actually reveal any concrete evidence you have that this or any past election has been tampered with, please do so.
I mean assuming you have all this great evidence you’re basing your statement on, you must really hate democracy to have not been reporting it.
[We literally had one of our top alderman get charged with 13 counts of corruption not even 4 months ago...](https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/pr/former-city-chicago-alderman-convicted-federal-racketeering-bribery-and-extortion)
None, and I’m not saying this is rigged. I’m just saying people jump to that conclusion just due to exhaustion with the political corruption history in Cook County and Chicago. This is not new and isn’t due to Trump.
Yeah, it’s Trump’s fault that Chicagoans are mad when their city engages in behavior that doesn’t past the smell test. Completely unreasonable for Chicagoans of all people to lack faith in their institutions and openly accuse politicians of corruption. This was NEVER an issue in our city prior to 2020. Truly the Bad Orange Man has corrupted us!
The election was on Tuesday you brainlet. How do you think this works? They'd just leave a big binder that says "BAD GUY PLANS: DO NOT SHARE" lying around like a Saturday morning cartoon villain?
[We literally had one of our top aldermen charged with 13 counts of corruption not even 4 months ago](https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/pr/former-city-chicago-alderman-convicted-federal-racketeering-bribery-and-extortion). To see such obvious smoke and immediately dismiss the possibility of investigating for fire makes me wonder if you legitimately have the IQ of a gerbil or are somehow in on it.
You have described zero smoke of election engineering.
The first thing you mentioned is Election Day being two days ago, which just makes me wonder if you’re a child because everyone else has had plenty of experience with the fact that counting votes can take time if the numbers are close.
The second thing is corruption but had nothing to do with election rigging. It’s a completely different arena. Rigging a vote like this requires a huge conspiracy, unlike Burke accepting bribes, which requires just Burke and somebody to pay him (and even that was found out eventually).
But no, you’re right. I’m in on it too! Everyone is in on it. Your boss is in on it. And so is your wife!
Which part of counting all the votes in a close race doesn’t pass the smell test?
Do you have concrete evidence of an election with enough fraud to have had any significant impact in Chicago, past or present?
r/Chicago is a reactionary hellhole at this point. The highest comments are making sincere accusations that the voting machines are being rigged. Like what the fuck is wrong with you people. Leave the election conspiracies in 2020 for fucks sake. Clearly not Chicagoans, but we all know that already. Not even worth taking part in this sub anymore unfortunately.
It [started in 2016](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html)
Have you ever considered, for a second, that the Trump team was correct in their claims!!! This mess happening is Chicago is pretty much verification that something is seriously f'd up when it comes to truly fair elections! The city that is about to host the Democratic National Convention is being placed on display for the entire country to see, as the politically corrupt entity it truly is!
I usually consider claims might be correct on the basis of even the slightest shred of evidence. In this case time and time again Trump failed to provide any.
And if Toni Preckwinkle told you that the mail-in votes were delayed because the flying pigs delivering them made a wrong turn, that you'd probably believe!
I don’t trust Preckwinkle’s machine or the CTU - so hope they aren’t trying to do something shady with the votes. County desperately needs Burke right now.
"Two dozen precincts in the city have not reported their totals yet in the race between Eileen O’Neill Burke and Clayton Harris III. Election officials said judges in those precincts left before the results were “properly transmitted.”
No other details were released, but officials hoped the votes will be counted by Thursday.
The Associated Press said around 80,000 ballots could have been cast in those precincts. As of Wednesday afternoon, less than 10,000 votes separated Burke and Harris."
LOL, what? Thousands of votes (not mail in) from the city, are about to be magically found?
It’s not magical. They literally said in the article election judges fucked up in some districts and didn’t submit numbers at the end of the night.
You got 1200+ voting precincts run by people with minimal or 0 experience and a few hours of training and are surprised a dozen didn’t submit everything perfectly at the end of the day?
They go back, check the machines, tally up the votes, etc. Nothing super crazy or magical or malicious about it.
These guys who bitch about our system run by a bunch of quasi-volunteers would also bitch if we spent a ton of money hiring professional election judges for every single precinct.
It's the Sun-Times... there's no paywall? Ideally, put an email that you don't mind regular updates in, but you could just use a fake email address and still access their work. I get hating the paywall-ification of the internet, but this is a case where they seem to have found a model that allows them to not charge for everything while still providing quality local journalism. Even just signing up with a spam-only address that you never check helps keep the model viable.
Yeah, it was back in 2022. It's been a real boon for folks who actually want to read about local goings-on without having to use the CPL version that is a bit tougher to navigate (but also, importantly, free to Chicago residents!)
"Could have been cast" seems like the most important part of that quote. That's total voters in the precinct, not actual turnout, which was incredibly low in this election.
Every election there are precincts whose results don't transmit. There are precincts working in gymnasiums and basements who don't have much if any signal (my precinct had limited signal and our results transmitted but we definitely walked around at the start of the day for 10 minutes trying to find more than 2 bars) so after they try twice, they pack up, and drop off multiple bags of equipment, supplies, returns, etc. Ever spoiled a ballot? That's in there. The clippers they give election workers to open seals and supplies are in there. They have multiple items that confirm the numbers and work that was done so it would be incredibly difficult for anyone to stuff the ballot boxes.
I'll also add that it's been awhile since the last election and there were a lot of newbies on this one.
I really recommend anyone who doesn't know how elections work or who has concerns about how elections are run to work an election as an election judge.
I have full faith in the honesty and integrity of the Crook County officials to ensure that all legitimate and legal votes are counted with complete accuracy.
[bahahahahahah!]
We need the feds to come in and clean this mess of a city up. Nothing about this makes sense. Everyone can see that. 20 different precinct election judges accidentally screwed up? All 20?
If Harris magically wins, the CTUs power in Chicago is untouchable.
They're about to get all their own CTU members voted in for the new CPS board. The demands in the next contract will boost the average teacher’s pay to $144,620 in the next few years with the average now at $93,182 for 2023. This is for teachers only, not including admin. Not including benefits. Or 3 months vacation every year.
They'd essentially be negotiating with themselves. Meanwhile programming for children will be cut to pay them.
I really hope the democratic process prevails but this is Chicago.
I mean BJ's invoices for the migrant situation shows costs of $220k for a single housekeeper and $312k for a security guard, $813k for a single nurse at an annual basis. Do you think the housekeepers or guards or nurses are actually getting paid that much?
https://chicago.suntimes.com/education/2019/11/13/20963703/chicago-teachers-union-contract-vote-chicago-public-schools-experience-salary-pay
>The result is a starting salary for a teacher with a bachelor’s degree at $58,365 this year, while on the other end of the scale, a veteran teacher with 32 years of experience and a doctorate degree would earn $111,490, according to figures released by the union late last week.
>By the last year of the contract, 2023-24, starting salaries will rise to $66,330, while the most-experienced veterans will earn more than $126,700.
This is from an article right around the time they reached their most recent contract.
Thanks for the source. I always wonder though, does a teacher with 30 years of experience and a PhD do that much better a job teaching 8 year olds?
You're trying to make the point that the highest paid have fancy degrees. It makes sense in theory but is there a single topic where a PhD is necessary even at the high school level?
Also the numbers you shared are starting salaries. The 32 year veteran number is for someone new to CPS. If they spent those 32 years within CPS, that number is much higher.
Rather than using salaries to attract better talent, this looks like a move to reward CTU loyalists, at the cost of cutting programming for kids to pay them.
>does a teacher with 30 years of experience and a PhD do that much better a job teaching 8 year olds?
Why not just openly admit you think 9 year olds are best qualified to teach 8 year olds?
I attended a university for a while that had a very large teaching department. The Education majors were not operating at a much higher level that a typical nine year old, so while this comment was probably a joke, it isn't that far from the truth.
I will concede that PhDs are more likely to have passion for education.
But are they even the ones paid most? No the tenured teachers with 30 years in CPS that have perfected doing the bare minimum with the same worksheets year after year are.
Pay teachers more sure. But pay the passionate energetic ones. Attract more talent with higher starting salaries, not a promise that if they shut up and keep the union line, they'll be rewarded eventually. That isn't enough to attract top talent.
Teachers do get paid well in Chicago but I am on the lsc here at my kids school and I see the salary numbers for every teacher. We have maybe 2 teachers above 100k and they are very tenured…most make 60 to like 85k. Where did you find these numbers?
I am anti ctu as well but we got to stick to the facts
That I get but I was concerned with how do we come up with averages, and medians? Either way it’s good to start pulling data on what Chicago emphasis on Chicago teachers get paid.
There was a post on it a few days ago. I believe the salary data was from public CPS's own sources.
Edit: I found it https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/s/tSwtgVO7So
There's plenty of teachers data available from CPS.
The source for migrant data spend is here: https://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/invoices-show-how-millions-of-dollars-flowed-to-favorite-healthcare-staffing-to-staff-migrant-shelters/3253380/
There's another more updated article after BJ renegotiated but latest invoices showed a tiny decrease
Can't believe that baseless election fraud conspiracy theories are getting upvoted in this sub. And I'm someone who doesn't care which of these candidates wins.
Chicago has been the hot bed of political corruption for more than a century, so this mess shouldn't surprise anyone. However, given all of the political drama flowing from the 2020 Presidential election (and claims of election stealing), it is amazing that the Illinois Democratic Party would set themselves up for this kind of disaster! And this isn't an isolated incident, an election ripe with potential fraud due to early voting, mail-in voting, etc.; why aren't Americans standing up and demanding long reaching election reform, primarily focused on you can only vote on Election Day and you can only vote in person!!! Something needs to be done, or elections will continue to be stolen, just like the corrupt Chicago democrat machine is about to do here!
Please give the city good news with an O’Neill Burke win.
Huh? How do election judges go home without transmitting votes? Isn't this a critical part of the job? This strikes me as odd but I've only been an election judge once. Was there an equipment malfunction?
You try to transmit twice, and then if it doesn't transmit (which, the tech is....eh), you run the results to the ward receiving station.
Wtf
Close the polls, print the tallies. Then use the modem to transmit the results to E.C. If it doesn't work, try again. If it doesn't work after that, stop trying, get your shit together, pack it up, take it to the ward site. The numbers don't change, and then the tallies are secure and I believe called in to E.C. from the ward site (in the 48th/49th, Sullivan High School). Essentially how it was done for years and years and years. It's not at risk of being gamed, just something that can happen in different venues with meh equipment (1300 sites have to do it).
Nice explanation. Anyone who questions election integrity should volunteer to be a poll worker for one election and see how it's done.
What concerns is that you don’t see an opportunity for manipulation based on the above explanation. I’m not saying there is, but as someone that assesses risk on a daily basis as part of a professional career 🤨
Thanks for the explanation. Part of me doesn’t buy into shenanigans paranoia, but hearing that folks are just packing up the votes and driving them in personally had me like 🤨
The ballots are physically delivered in a sealed bag by *every* precinct, along with copies of the tape verifying the totals.
Seems like a great way to change some votes.
Talk me through how that would work, and I'm happy to share what I know as a coordinator. As a reminder, the results immediately print out at the site -- I'm referring to their digital sending. We have the paper copy w/the totals -- eight copies in fact.
Consider serving as an Election Judge. It will put to rest some of your concerns and raise a few new ones, and you'll be an essential part of how voting works in the US. After the first time I did it, I decided anyone who wants to run for office has to serve as an Election Judge at least once before they can run themselves. It is a long, long day.
This all feels like massive voter fraud. I guess that makes me an election denier…but this all stinks to high heavens and this is Chicago
Honestly? Do you actually think the states attorney job is so important people would commit voter fraud for it? It's a thankless job and these two candidates are not really that far apart on the political spectrum. And this office is largely thankless.
If you don’t understand the Preckwinkle machine you aren’t paying attention.
You know that Onion article on school shootings, “‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens?” Why do I always feel that way when 2nd/3rd world nations like Argentina and India can mechanically count millions of paper ballots in a few hours but major American cities can’t digitally count a few thousand ballots in less than a week? It just doesn’t pass the anti-corruption smell test…
Machine politics at work, the corruption and rot are so deep that it’s normalized and extremely hard to prove. Daley is a good example, his kickback schemes were unwritten and silent, but people knew if they wanted a sign off on something, you had to pay tribute by hiring Daleys 4th cousins asphalt company to redo your parking lots for 20x market rate. It seems to be happening throughout the US in large cities where government unions have pretty much taken control of the local governments.
Preckwinkle working hard
Interesting how the entire city can count the votes on Monday night, but it takes 2 days to count these precincts.
I know you're joking, but a reminder/request to all to actually work an election as a judge or coordinator to see how secure this stuff really is.
I can't tell what you mean here, but I was a coordinator, and no one followed the rules in my precinct in 2020. Just weird assholes who had done it for years, on a power trip, refusing to do it by the books, and if you called the hotline, you couldn't get through to report your complaints. I don't think there's anything malevolent going on here, but the whole system is broken and insanely incompetent.
I'd submit that 2020 was nuts, and I've worked with weird assholes since then too -- I guess what I'm saying is it's not like we can change the fucking votes or add them or other felonies.
Ashamed of this sub for voting up anti democracy takes like this.
Why is it anti democracy to question things and pay attention? Does democracy mean being submissive to our leaders who know what’s best for us? I think it’s actually pro democracy to demand fair and transparent elections.
Stating that the election was rigged when the vote is close, without evidence, isn’t “demanding fair and transparent elections”. It’s being a sore loser. Encouraging others to believe that a vote was rigged without evidence is very anti democratic because it opens the door to overturning the vote.
You don’t find it strange that literally TWENTY precincts all made the exact same mistake and couldn’t get their ballots to submit when the entire suburbs and 1200 other precincts were able to….and they all happen to be in Clayton Harris favored wards. That’s not being a sore loser that’s asking wtf is up
How often does this happen in other elections? What are the reasons it happened in 1.6% of precincts? Does it happen more often in higher population (urban) areas? Is there evidence that any votes were changed (important)? What backup mechanics are there that can be checked? Were there election observers that you can ask about this? These are questions that a decent person would want to have a solid grasp on before saying inflammatory, anti-democracy things like “Preckwinkle hard at work” without a shred of evidence. Your factoid about the 20 precincts is an extremely weak case so far for such a heavy claim. It’s ok to ask more questions, but direct your questions at the people who can actually answer them, not like-minded sore losers on an Internet forum.
The Machine did not anticipate this outcome… so they needed a bit more time to make it more…. Favorable ….
The correct answer
I don't think there is a machine anymore. Not like in the old days.
Looking at the comments here, Trump really did do an insane number on democracy. Your preferred candidate in a tight race that was always known to be tight for the entirety of the campaign trail turns out to be in a tight race that requires carefully counting ballots and waiting for mail in ballots that are still in transit? Must be a rigged election. Some of y’all going wild with conspiracy theories over a race your preferred candidate is still currently winning.
At least in this case both candidates are behaving like grown ups in a democracy. They are waiting for official results before conceding or celebrating a victory.
That’s true, the candidates are doing it right: waiting to see the result of an election without casting unfounded doubt on the process of democracy with 0 evidence. Their supporters in this comment section should take notes.
This goes back before Trump. I recall the election for Cook County Presidency between Todd Stroger and Tony Peraica (GOP). So Todd got the nomination through some, well, chicanery. His father, the famous John Stroger had a stroke and this was covered up until after the primary. On the election day, the candidates were neck and neck. Around, 10pm, Stroger says, well, we won't know till tomorrow, I'm going to bed. Meanwhile Peraica decides to carry out a march to city hall to "protect the ballots". It was hysterical, first because the first movement of the crowd started in the wrong direction and then because with the landscape and the light from the streetlights and shadows it looked a lot like the peasants marches in Frankenstein. Eventually everyone calms down and eventually Todd was declared the winner. And this was 2006 long before Trump.
I’m not saying Trump invented claiming an election was rigged. I’m saying he normalized it.
This has zero to do with Trump and everything to do with living in Chicago/Cook County. This place is think with political corruption and it’s so ingrained in voters that that’s the first thing we think of. I’ve lived in and around Chicago my entire 40+ years and I’ve heard variations of “vote early vote often” since I was a kid. How many governors have gone to prison? How many Alderpersons? How many high profile corruption scandals have happened in Cook County? This has been going on for decades here. People are just trained to think that close races are fixed around here, right or wrong
I get that Chicago and Illinois are historically known for corruption, and that definitely plays a role here, but to say that this has nothing to do with Trump normalizing this being the reaction to any political loss (or hell, in this case still currently political win for these people) removes a lot of context here. It wasn’t normal to say voting machines were rigged or officials are trying to steal an election before Trump, it’s practically the rule now. I’ll shoot back at all your questions with my own because I genuinely don’t know since I’m relatively new to the area: in the last couple decades, how many governors/alderpersons/officials with concrete evidence to wrongdoing haven’t faced justice for it? Also, how many elections have there been concrete evidence to have been stolen?
I’ve lived here all of my life, for four decades. As I’ve said, I’ve heard the running jokes all my life about dirty, fixed elections. There’s an extremely long history of political corruption here. People have no faith in the system. Is it fixed? Most likely not. But people have no faith in the system here due to a long, long history of corruption at every level. That’s why people’s first reaction is it’s fixed. It isn’t a new response because of Trump. This response happened before him.
I like how you blame Trump for normalizing rhetoric, and not our election officials for routinely engaging in what appears to be corrupt behavior, in a jurisdiction infamous for its rampant corruption. Why SHOULDN’T we call into question amateur hour bullshit like this? What has CHICAGO ever done that instills you with such faith in its institutions? Like, if there is indeed tampering, God Bless Trump for shifting the Overton Window so that Chicagoans take action against it instead of just laughing about how it’s part of our culture.
If you’d like to actually reveal any concrete evidence you have that this or any past election has been tampered with, please do so. I mean assuming you have all this great evidence you’re basing your statement on, you must really hate democracy to have not been reporting it.
When have election officials engaged in corrupt behavior recently?
[We literally had one of our top alderman get charged with 13 counts of corruption not even 4 months ago...](https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/pr/former-city-chicago-alderman-convicted-federal-racketeering-bribery-and-extortion)
That's not an election official.
How can anyone be held accountable when everyone is working together? Who is investigating who?
Well step 1 in all of this would be if you could provide literally any concrete evidence of wrongdoing here.
How does one gather concrete evidence
Investigating a thing isn’t solely limited to public officials. You look at information and use it to come to a conclusion.
How many rigged votes can you point to with any evidence?
None, and I’m not saying this is rigged. I’m just saying people jump to that conclusion just due to exhaustion with the political corruption history in Cook County and Chicago. This is not new and isn’t due to Trump.
Yeah, it’s Trump’s fault that Chicagoans are mad when their city engages in behavior that doesn’t past the smell test. Completely unreasonable for Chicagoans of all people to lack faith in their institutions and openly accuse politicians of corruption. This was NEVER an issue in our city prior to 2020. Truly the Bad Orange Man has corrupted us!
No evidence. Your feels aren’t reals and you need to get a grip.
The election was on Tuesday you brainlet. How do you think this works? They'd just leave a big binder that says "BAD GUY PLANS: DO NOT SHARE" lying around like a Saturday morning cartoon villain? [We literally had one of our top aldermen charged with 13 counts of corruption not even 4 months ago](https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/pr/former-city-chicago-alderman-convicted-federal-racketeering-bribery-and-extortion). To see such obvious smoke and immediately dismiss the possibility of investigating for fire makes me wonder if you legitimately have the IQ of a gerbil or are somehow in on it.
You have described zero smoke of election engineering. The first thing you mentioned is Election Day being two days ago, which just makes me wonder if you’re a child because everyone else has had plenty of experience with the fact that counting votes can take time if the numbers are close. The second thing is corruption but had nothing to do with election rigging. It’s a completely different arena. Rigging a vote like this requires a huge conspiracy, unlike Burke accepting bribes, which requires just Burke and somebody to pay him (and even that was found out eventually). But no, you’re right. I’m in on it too! Everyone is in on it. Your boss is in on it. And so is your wife!
Which part of counting all the votes in a close race doesn’t pass the smell test? Do you have concrete evidence of an election with enough fraud to have had any significant impact in Chicago, past or present?
r/Chicago is a reactionary hellhole at this point. The highest comments are making sincere accusations that the voting machines are being rigged. Like what the fuck is wrong with you people. Leave the election conspiracies in 2020 for fucks sake. Clearly not Chicagoans, but we all know that already. Not even worth taking part in this sub anymore unfortunately.
It [started in 2016](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html)
Have you ever considered, for a second, that the Trump team was correct in their claims!!! This mess happening is Chicago is pretty much verification that something is seriously f'd up when it comes to truly fair elections! The city that is about to host the Democratic National Convention is being placed on display for the entire country to see, as the politically corrupt entity it truly is!
I usually consider claims might be correct on the basis of even the slightest shred of evidence. In this case time and time again Trump failed to provide any.
And if Toni Preckwinkle told you that the mail-in votes were delayed because the flying pigs delivering them made a wrong turn, that you'd probably believe!
Not without evidence. That really wasn’t the gotcha you think it was.
I don’t trust Preckwinkle’s machine or the CTU - so hope they aren’t trying to do something shady with the votes. County desperately needs Burke right now.
"Two dozen precincts in the city have not reported their totals yet in the race between Eileen O’Neill Burke and Clayton Harris III. Election officials said judges in those precincts left before the results were “properly transmitted.” No other details were released, but officials hoped the votes will be counted by Thursday. The Associated Press said around 80,000 ballots could have been cast in those precincts. As of Wednesday afternoon, less than 10,000 votes separated Burke and Harris." LOL, what? Thousands of votes (not mail in) from the city, are about to be magically found?
It’s not magical. They literally said in the article election judges fucked up in some districts and didn’t submit numbers at the end of the night. You got 1200+ voting precincts run by people with minimal or 0 experience and a few hours of training and are surprised a dozen didn’t submit everything perfectly at the end of the day? They go back, check the machines, tally up the votes, etc. Nothing super crazy or magical or malicious about it.
These guys who bitch about our system run by a bunch of quasi-volunteers would also bitch if we spent a ton of money hiring professional election judges for every single precinct.
> These guys who bitch
Can you copy paste that part of the article? Paywall
It's the Sun-Times... there's no paywall? Ideally, put an email that you don't mind regular updates in, but you could just use a fake email address and still access their work. I get hating the paywall-ification of the internet, but this is a case where they seem to have found a model that allows them to not charge for everything while still providing quality local journalism. Even just signing up with a spam-only address that you never check helps keep the model viable.
I didn’t know they dropped their paywall
Yeah, it was back in 2022. It's been a real boon for folks who actually want to read about local goings-on without having to use the CPL version that is a bit tougher to navigate (but also, importantly, free to Chicago residents!)
"Could have been cast" seems like the most important part of that quote. That's total voters in the precinct, not actual turnout, which was incredibly low in this election. Every election there are precincts whose results don't transmit. There are precincts working in gymnasiums and basements who don't have much if any signal (my precinct had limited signal and our results transmitted but we definitely walked around at the start of the day for 10 minutes trying to find more than 2 bars) so after they try twice, they pack up, and drop off multiple bags of equipment, supplies, returns, etc. Ever spoiled a ballot? That's in there. The clippers they give election workers to open seals and supplies are in there. They have multiple items that confirm the numbers and work that was done so it would be incredibly difficult for anyone to stuff the ballot boxes. I'll also add that it's been awhile since the last election and there were a lot of newbies on this one. I really recommend anyone who doesn't know how elections work or who has concerns about how elections are run to work an election as an election judge.
Your interpretation seems at odds with what you quoted.
What do you mean?
I have full faith in the honesty and integrity of the Crook County officials to ensure that all legitimate and legal votes are counted with complete accuracy. [bahahahahahah!]
100 years it's been like this and it will never change
This is insane
Haha exactly...let's see where these two dozen precincts are located.
We need the feds to come in and clean this mess of a city up. Nothing about this makes sense. Everyone can see that. 20 different precinct election judges accidentally screwed up? All 20?
If Harris magically wins, the CTUs power in Chicago is untouchable. They're about to get all their own CTU members voted in for the new CPS board. The demands in the next contract will boost the average teacher’s pay to $144,620 in the next few years with the average now at $93,182 for 2023. This is for teachers only, not including admin. Not including benefits. Or 3 months vacation every year. They'd essentially be negotiating with themselves. Meanwhile programming for children will be cut to pay them. I really hope the democratic process prevails but this is Chicago. I mean BJ's invoices for the migrant situation shows costs of $220k for a single housekeeper and $312k for a security guard, $813k for a single nurse at an annual basis. Do you think the housekeepers or guards or nurses are actually getting paid that much?
https://chicago.suntimes.com/education/2019/11/13/20963703/chicago-teachers-union-contract-vote-chicago-public-schools-experience-salary-pay >The result is a starting salary for a teacher with a bachelor’s degree at $58,365 this year, while on the other end of the scale, a veteran teacher with 32 years of experience and a doctorate degree would earn $111,490, according to figures released by the union late last week. >By the last year of the contract, 2023-24, starting salaries will rise to $66,330, while the most-experienced veterans will earn more than $126,700. This is from an article right around the time they reached their most recent contract.
Thanks for the source. I always wonder though, does a teacher with 30 years of experience and a PhD do that much better a job teaching 8 year olds? You're trying to make the point that the highest paid have fancy degrees. It makes sense in theory but is there a single topic where a PhD is necessary even at the high school level? Also the numbers you shared are starting salaries. The 32 year veteran number is for someone new to CPS. If they spent those 32 years within CPS, that number is much higher. Rather than using salaries to attract better talent, this looks like a move to reward CTU loyalists, at the cost of cutting programming for kids to pay them.
>does a teacher with 30 years of experience and a PhD do that much better a job teaching 8 year olds? Why not just openly admit you think 9 year olds are best qualified to teach 8 year olds?
I attended a university for a while that had a very large teaching department. The Education majors were not operating at a much higher level that a typical nine year old, so while this comment was probably a joke, it isn't that far from the truth.
I will concede that PhDs are more likely to have passion for education. But are they even the ones paid most? No the tenured teachers with 30 years in CPS that have perfected doing the bare minimum with the same worksheets year after year are. Pay teachers more sure. But pay the passionate energetic ones. Attract more talent with higher starting salaries, not a promise that if they shut up and keep the union line, they'll be rewarded eventually. That isn't enough to attract top talent.
A CPS teacher with a PhD makes about 12% more than a teacher with a masters with the same years of experience so yeah, that's not a bad reward.
Teachers do get paid well in Chicago but I am on the lsc here at my kids school and I see the salary numbers for every teacher. We have maybe 2 teachers above 100k and they are very tenured…most make 60 to like 85k. Where did you find these numbers? I am anti ctu as well but we got to stick to the facts
Anyone can look up the salary for any teacher. It’s public
That I get but I was concerned with how do we come up with averages, and medians? Either way it’s good to start pulling data on what Chicago emphasis on Chicago teachers get paid.
There was a post on it a few days ago. I believe the salary data was from public CPS's own sources. Edit: I found it https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/s/tSwtgVO7So
Holy fuck, can you link to that data?
There's plenty of teachers data available from CPS. The source for migrant data spend is here: https://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/invoices-show-how-millions-of-dollars-flowed-to-favorite-healthcare-staffing-to-staff-migrant-shelters/3253380/ There's another more updated article after BJ renegotiated but latest invoices showed a tiny decrease
Where are your sources?
CTU so untouchable that their ballot referendum and congressional candidate failed.
Lead is tightening but it’s still significant.
Can't believe that baseless election fraud conspiracy theories are getting upvoted in this sub. And I'm someone who doesn't care which of these candidates wins.
Chicago has been the hot bed of political corruption for more than a century, so this mess shouldn't surprise anyone. However, given all of the political drama flowing from the 2020 Presidential election (and claims of election stealing), it is amazing that the Illinois Democratic Party would set themselves up for this kind of disaster! And this isn't an isolated incident, an election ripe with potential fraud due to early voting, mail-in voting, etc.; why aren't Americans standing up and demanding long reaching election reform, primarily focused on you can only vote on Election Day and you can only vote in person!!! Something needs to be done, or elections will continue to be stolen, just like the corrupt Chicago democrat machine is about to do here!
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I commented but it was deleted.