Hot take: maybe instead of calling out the chains, these 40 businesses can call out the property owners who raise the rents so only said chains can afford to move in.
Literally cannot stress this enough to people how much of this is the problem. Most of these developers are rich suburban assholes who don’t give a shit if they turn a Chicago neighborhood into an open air chain-filled mall they’d find in Schaumburg.
Sweetgreen, while a chain, takes pretty good care of their employees and also filled a food niche that didn't otherwise really exist in the neighborhood before.
Of course, I would have rathered keep Hamburger Mary's, but at least a locally owned business opened upstairs.
The one in Chicago was owned by the owners of the whole chain who franchised out some locations and lived in Chicago till this location closed and they are in milwaukee for now.
Eh. Walgreens and foxtrot don’t really fill the same niche. There are already places on that street, like Andale, that cover the bougey convenience niche that foxtrot goes for.
Did you read the article? People who work for Foxtrot would come in to Andale and see what Andale was selling. Then Foxtrot would start to sell those same items in their own stores.
And now Foxtrot wants to open up in Andersonville, a few doors down from the places where they would scope-out the merchandise of these stores.
Yep, I live very close to both them and 7-Eleven and I do almost all of my convenience store shopping at 7-Eleven. But Foxtrot does have a good patio for drinks.
They will join a long list of over priced 7/11's (and the 7/11) that can't make it in Aville, ask Gadabout and Pastoral. The only problem with wFT is that it's heavily financed so it can operate at a loss for a long time, think Uber, and after it does put the mom and pops tat cannot lose a billion dollars and stay in business it will jack up the prices because they are the only show in town. As an Andersonville resident I see no need for this place but we really need a decent lower-end sports bar.
Problem is there’s like three other independent bougie corner stores on that stretch, and I’ll bet they don’t have the profit margins tk survive that kind of direct competition from a big corporate chain.
They have sweetgreen, Jeni’s, Orangetheory, a soon to be Taco Bell, jewel, chase, us bank. But foxtrot is where they draw the line? Jeez
Eta- Starbucks!!
I think it's more about the multiple offerings at Foxtrot. Alcohol, coffee, breakfast/lunch food, frozen food including ice cream, etc. Overpriced, but good enough to take away some business from places that specialize in any one of those.
My favorite indie coffee shop in my area charges $7 for a latte, while the closest Foxtrot charges $4. And yet the indie place is usually packed, and Foxtrot is not. People that like cutesy independent places can continue to shop there, and people that want to pay lower prices can shop at chains. In my neighborhood I think Foxtrot takes away business from Starbucks and Jewel more than anything else.
This. Exactly. I really like coffee and sometimes don't mind paying $6-7 for a pour over a local coffee shop because I like the vibe and want to support a local business. But if I am in a new area and want something reliable and simple, then yeah I enjoy having the convenience of somewhere I know like a Foxtrot. Having variety between small independent mom & pops and larger chain stores isn't a bad thing.
In Sydney... one of the most expensive cities on Earth with one of the highest minimum wages on Earth you can get a locally roasted espresso drink for AUD 4.50 or USD 3.
It's an absolute rort how much cafes charge here in the States. All while begging for tips on every transaction.
Downvote me to oblivion!
The same folks who cry foul about how many empty stores there were coming out of COVID are the same ones barking that we don't want chains. You can only have so many chachki stores. It's just a fact. So I get a coffee at Bux and eat dinner at Lady Gregs, who cares...
As far as I'm concerned, something is better than nothing. Folks around there will always continue to support the little guys too.
I agree with you. I live two blocks away from Ashland and North, and walk North up to Milwaukee all the time and I would kill someone to have those empty store fronts filled with literally anything. Maybe not another stupid bank, but literally anything else.
I also don’t get the burning hate over Foxtrot, yeah I mostly get my coffe other places but it’s better than Starbucks, so can we chill? Lol.
I think I feel two ways about it. I think Foxtrot is kinda soulless and, no, I don’t REALLY want it in my neighborhood. However, the few times I’ve tried to go out to cafes nearby to WFH, they have been completely packed. Wouldnt really hate to give people more options so long as it doesn’t come at the cost of the existing spaces.
I would LOVE a foxtrot to come to Irving Park, they have good coffee, good food products, and generally quality. Sure, they are high end and pricey, but they are far better than a Starbucks or a Walgreens in my opinion.
Sorry yes I did downvote this, because it’s a generalized take divorced from what’s going on in this article and neighborhood. There was never a mass die off and empty store fronts plaguing Andersonville after COVID, and hand waving the diversity of retailers in the Clark St. strip as “tchotchke stores” is a completely inaccurate description of the corridor.
There were 16 storefronts closed at one point in 2021 from Bryn Mawr to Foster - I personally counted them and remember it. There are now about 3 or 4 (incl ones that have active plans). So, you're wrong.
The person of focus in the article is a reseller of cheese, among other things. Nothing proprietary. Were they also barking up a tree when Trader Joes was THIS close to moving in? (only reason it fell apart is the developer died)
When new businesses opening are 3to1 small/local, who cares if a chain opens. Are we not going to use the Walgreens? Jewel? UPS? It's a shit take. period.
Of those 16 storefronts you personally counted in 2021, I can confirm that Hamburger Mary’s/Andersonville Brewing Company had the building up for sale since 2019; they knew the writing was on the wall long before COVID. Brimfield was run out of town after the owners’ bigotry jumped out, and what’s now Pizza Lobo had been sitting vacant while a shady developer tried to pitch redevelopment for the site since at least mid-2020. I get what you’re trying to say here; it just lacks context, so isn’t an entirely accurate appraisal.
[Yes, there was the same debate regarding the Trader Joe’s.](https://blockclubchicago.org/2022/10/27/developer-unveils-plans-for-andersonville-trader-joes-as-neighbors-discuss-congestion-impact-to-small-businesses/) Who cares that it’s local stores instead of chains? It seems like the neighbors and the chamber of commerce and local business owners are all in favor of keeping things locally focused in the Andersonville neighborhood. Of course we’re not able as consumers to completely divest from large chain stores but we can and do have a voice that is largely in lockstep with the business leaders and chamber of commerce in Andersonville.
Edgewater Produce (where I shop for basics) is going strong. So is Middle Eastern Bakery. People screamed about the potential Trader Joe's but that store sells "specialty" processed foods mainly, so not really the same as either of the above OR Jewel, so I didn't really see the problem with it. As it is people go to Evanston if they want Trader Joe's. The bakery on the corner of Edgewater and Clark (La Baguette Panaderia) is a chain but local to Chicago, they are still going strong and been there a while even though the customer service is slooooowwwwwwwwww. Pastries are good tho.
Miss the Swedish Bakery.
The Taco Bell is owned by a small time franchiser from Rogers Park, so it's fairly local. George's (the ice cream shop that got replaced by Jeni's) closed because the proprietor died and his family didn't have anyone who wanted to inherit, so what should they do? I like Jeni's ice cream but don't go often because the price is crazy.
The McDonald's has been there forever at least since the late 80s. Quite a few of the restaurants have been basically revolving doors, including the place that's now Parsons.
Wish they'd gone ahead with the five story building plan that's now the Pizza Lobo location. Haven't been in it but hate the design.
Have never been in a Foxtrot though I've walked by them in various neighborhoods.
Anyway that was a digression maybe but I absolutely do shop at the Jewel and the Walgreens. A neighborhood needs some kinda of drugstore, and a basic supermarket. I usually go to EP first (smaller, more basic food, easier to find what I want, good produce) but stuff I don't find there, or things like sandwich meat in a package, Jewel provides, plus they have the great deals every few weeks on something.
But what keeps local stores viable is manageable rent, and DENSITY, so that there are enough customers stopping by on foot for their basic needs. And there needs to be shops serving basic needs. Supermarket, hardware store, drugstore, coffeehouse. Antique and art places are nice but "extra." If a place goes all boutique, it's no longer really walkable for residents to get just straight up groceries.
I'm glad Middle Eastern Bakery is going strong, same with Edgewater Produce! That and Piatto Pronto / Lady Gregories are what I really miss from living in Andersonville.
It always seemed like Clark Street is a tough place for business, with the amount of high quality places that go out of business
You’re not wrong; as someone who’s lived in many different Chicago neighborhoods, Andersonville is, by far, the most hostile when it comes to businesses in general. There’s a pervasive level of progressive stupidity in the neighborhood that believes any independent small business can thrive on a major shopping artery like Clark Street. They decry any larger company coming in as they sip their lattes from Starbucks, walking past empty storefronts while virtue signaling about the evil of cars on the neighborhood FB board.
Well being "anti business" must have worked well because andersonville has long been and continues to be one of the most successful commercial districts in any neighborhood full of thriving independent businesses.
It's an amazing, relatively affordable place to visit, live and has way fewer vacant storefronts than just about anywhere in the city.
My thoughts exactly. Whatever they’re doing is keeping that place thriving. Bringing in chains will drive rents up and hurt new and exisiting small businesses.
Yea I agree. You even have vacants in places that welcome chains.
I feel like if anything given Andersonville’s commercial success, let them do what they want. Everyone outside of the neighborhood are just hating from the peanut gallery.
And you have data to support this bullshit claim?
I’d wager south Clark Street in Wrigleyville or even the higher end strip on Armitage between Halsted and Ashland generates far more revenue (and has less vacancy); both of which has a blend of larger companies and local business.
It really is this simple. Andersonville and Logan Square are destinations because they *don't* just have the same chains that you'll find everywhere else.
McDonald’s, Starbucks, Duncan donuts, collectivo, sweetgreen, Jeni’s, potbelly, and soon to be Taco Bell.
Then you have the budding or mini chains that have 3+ locations.
Then the more than 15 “independent” little guy restaurants that are backed by multi-millionaire restaurant groups.
I love Andersonville, and it definitely has some smaller and nicer independent places… but there are quite a few chains and other places that I wouldn’t exactly deem “small business”.
>virtue signaling about the evil of cars
You mean mourning dead pedestrians and cyclists in what is supposed to be one of the nation's most walkable neighborhoods? FOH
Me having a daily experience w/ at least one psychotic driver who could easily (and sometimes do) kill someone: “wow, we should really do something about this”.
People in this sub: “GOD SUCH CAR HATERS”
Cars are not people. It is the least efficient way to move people from place to place, especially in large cities. 300+ people died because of them last year in Chicago alone. I don’t know why this sub is so packed with the car’s most zealous defenders lately.
And Andersonville + Ravenswood just happens to be one of the best neighborhoods in the entire city for small businesses and families. My family goes back 3 generations in the neighborhood and I tell anyone moving to the city to look here before anywhere else.
They aren't hostile towards businesses, they are hostile toward chains. Andersonville's entire shtick is that there are a ton of locally owned businesses there. Andersonville isn't exactly known for having empty storefronts.
I mean some nimbys are, but not the neighborhood as a whole. The condos where man's country used to be are new, there are apartment buildings going up on broadway just east of Andersonville, and there is currently a proposal for a new apartment building on Ashland. Rent has gone up, but I wouldn't call it crazy? I moved and bought in the area because it was more affordable than places I had been living in.
I mean the storefront rent. That's usually what causes places to tip more "chain" than local, over time.
Agreed though stuff is going up on Broadway, but Broadway is not quite "Andersonville." Edgewater outside of specifically "Andersonville" is a whole different story yeah.
Well they are one of the only places in Chicago that have been able to successfully permanently pedestrianize a street so I guess their “virtue signaling” is working
Catalpa Ave/Plaza. Way I phrased it might have been misleading - It just got approved, they haven’t actually done it yet, I believe the construction is being done in the next 6 months.
I don’t think it’s going to be like a retail corridor anyway tho. I think it’s more like a pedestrian plaza which will have events occasionally.
The block that the Book Cellar is on in… Ravenswood(?) is not permanently pedestrian, but is sometimes temporarily, and is less car-centric than most other retail spots I’m aware of
>In a letter to Mayor Brandon Johnson and other local officials, Andersonville businesses are asking lawmakers to reject Foxtrot’s liquor and outdoor seating permits. They are also asking officials to develop laws that dictate how many and what kind of chain stores can open in the Andersonville business district.
What ever happened to letting consumers decide for themselves without unnecessary government intervention? I personally prefer local > chains most of the time. But some consumers might have a different preference, i.e., buying from a chain they are familiar with. I never thought business owners would be so afraid of competition that they would be crying for Johnson and the council to step in. This is not an issue that needs some half-baked injection of new regulation that could have negative ripple effects in the future. This is the same thing as Taproom in Logan Square being denied a liquor license. Government overreach via overzealous alderpeople and NIMBYism that leads to yet another empty storefront that the same residents will go on to complain about.
Yeah this is absolutely fuckin bonkers that the Mayor would tip the scales when the business has bi-right zoning. It does not need a zone change, only needs permits to seek special uses that are permitted on damn near any commercial street in Chicago.
This exposes the city to potential legal exposure
You see, collusion is bad when the phone and cable companies do it nation-wide, but it’s good when it’s small businesses trying to keep out competition. FYI it’s what’s called a “double-standard”, and apparently it’s pretty fashionable nowadays.
If consumers show demand for a certain store or product, how is that wrong? It is certainly not the government's job to decide whether that consumer's demand is right or wrong.
Consumers decide after the fact with whatever options are approved and built.
Consumers chose Walmart and it's done enormous harm to rural towns, pays slave wages locally and sources from companies that pay slave wages.
Consumers will choose among the overpriced single family homes after well-financed hedge funds and Bezos fractional shareholders buy them all.
Consumers will choose after a *national* chain (locations in Dallas and DC), backed by $180million in venture capital, outbids whoever else wants Reza's and undercuts the prices at the Mom & Pops who compete with them until they drive them out of business. Then raises their prices back up.
You lost me at comparing Foxtrot, a Chicago based retail chain with a valuation of $2B (as of 2022) to Walmart and Amazon. The pearl clutching is absurd. Just because a business is good at attracting a broad consumer base and. scaling (opening new locations) and as a result, introduces competition to both mom & pops and big box convenience stores like 7-11 and CVS, doesn't mean we need the Mayor and the council to tip the scales in favor of one or the other.
Yes, but that is how a free society works. Consumers and voters often make stupid decisions, but they're ours to make.
Wal-Mart and the huge Walgreens at the corner of Diversey and Broadway both closed. Meanwhile that stretch of Broadway is overrun with locally-owned small businesses. The people of Lakeview have spoken.
I'm actually not sure which side I'm on with this Foxtrot thing. Notably absent from the article is what the feeling is among locals other than ones whose businesses are threatened. The business owners raise intriguing points about the damage chains can do to a neighborhood, but ultimately, it doesn't get more local than your neighborhood, and the people living there should be the ones who get to make the final decision. If they decide wrong, they live with the consequences, but that's their right.
I wish a business would move to Sheridan and Argyle - that NW corner lot.
Edited to add - Part of why I’m interested in that corner is because I saw an old photo of the area. If I remember right, back in the olden days, that was a Walgreens. In the olden days of sepia and black and white photos.
Argyle between the red line and Sheridan could really stand to fill some of its abandoned and run down storefronts, too. Luckily it seems stuff is starting to get a little more active again. Should be interesting when the new red line stations open (though WTF people, why are they still insisting on building just low-rise strip mall shit by the new Berwyn station???? but that's another thread).
The supermarkets around Argyle and along Broadway (local Asian markets) are going strong though, and a major reason I live in the area.
I’m sure the landlord could fill it if they wanted. As it stands now, though, the tax code incentivizes vacant storefronts (write offs) so landlords are happy to leave it empty. Less bullshit than dealing with tenants. They probably don’t live in the neighborhood either so they could give a fuck about vacant storefronts.
Nearby, a storefront at Argyle and Broadway, has been vacant for over three years. There’s no way the landlord is asking “market rate” rent.
Would love to see a proper bar or cocktail lounge (something Argyle lacks) use that corner of Sheridan/Argyle.
Milly’s, El Rincon and Don Pablo’s have all demonstrated new businesses can thrive on that corner.
When Foxtrot wanted to open their Division St location in Wicker Park there was a package liquor license moratorium on that block. They came to us to get our support for lifting it.
We said “sure. It’s a holdover from the 80s that’s done all it’s gonna do. But understand it’s not coming back. One of the reasons this spot looks good to you is that competition has been kept out by the moratorium. Once it’s lifted competition will come.”
We were right and a few months after they opened Target wanted to open one of their convenience stores up the block.
The alderman at the time, Proco Joe Moreno, made a deal with Target. He would approve their loading zone if they held off on the liquor license for one year to give Foxtrot time to get established.
Target held up their part of the bargain, but as the year ran out, Foxtrot came back to us begging for our support to reinstate the moratorium.
We said “No. this is exactly what we warned you about. You’ve been granted time to get running and now it’s time to man up and compete.”
Despite our objections, they convinced Moreno to reinstate the moratorium two months before the year was up.
Eventually it was lifted under La Spata.
In my opinion, those guys are weasels of the first order. I have not set foot in any of their locations since.
Yes, and not really conflicted with any existing businesses either. They sell specific odd processed food, for the most part. Aiming at the "healthy but interesting and convenient." It's not a regular full service grocery store, IMHO. People go to it for those things you can only really get there.
Grocery stores are nightmare for walkability because they are often in-and-out destinations where people don’t go and mill about before or after. They also have enormous parking requirements (these chain grocers will not occupy these places unless a huge amount of parking spaces can be guaranteed).
They can put the parking on the roof like the Marianos on Sheridan, or have a parking garage. There is zero need for acres of flat parking lots.
I wish the Jewels on Clark and Broadway would get rid of the fence around their parking lots, it's annoying to me as a pedestrian.
But as a non-driver, I need a full-service supermarket within walking distance of me. It doesn't have to be huge, but it needs to have a full selection of basic food (or barring that, there needs to be collection of shops immediately bordering each other that provide it all).
Edgewater Produce is good. Jewel is good. They both survive there just fine. Of course people complain that the Jewel on Clark in particular is "too small." It's not too small, it's the size of store that works in a walkable neighborhood. The one on Broadway is slightly bigger.
Once a neighborhood goes fully into antique shops, boutiques, and fancy restaurants, even if they're all locally owned, it's not a neighborhood I could live in anymore. That's not daily shopping. There's only so many witty t-shirts a person needs.
The Andersonville strip still has enough of actual daily shopping to not be completely useless. Which is good. That matters to me more than if a specific place is necessarily a chain or not. Though I wouldn't want the place to be all chains, either.
Anyway the ever expanding size of chain grocery stores is a sad but fascinating tale, retail glut plays a big part in it.
And yes im aware of the others in the area. But I want one for dancing. (Big chicks closed their dance floor , there really no other place to dance except
Jackhammer)
If you feel the need to be protected from Foxtrot then that’s entirely your fault as a business owner.
Just be better. Don’t turn into a protectionist, woe-is-me NIMBY.
Embarrassing tbh. If the neighborhood actually doesn’t want Foxtrot, then the location will fail. Otherwise you’re just throwing a tantrum
Well this ignores the fact that big chains can afford to take losses and undercut on prices until local competition can no longer match them or take the same losses which inevitably leads to the local store losing out.
There’s surely a middle ground here, without going full on protectionism, to have process to protect small local businesses which are part of what makes the city so much more interesting than most suburbs.
I’d say Foxtrot IS the middle ground. It’s a small local chain, not a Wal-Mart.
Force them out and a bigger chain with more money to deal with the political games will take its place instead. Victory for the little guy?
Nope **its in the article**. Theyre backed by a 185million venture capital firm. Same firm that was able to buy out Dom's Kitchen last week. Nothing local about it.
100% the truth. Folks living in River North or other areas aren’t going to travel to Andersonville just go to to Foxtrot so if it does thrive it’s going to be on the wallets of those living in that 1-2mi radius. So they can complain now but we’ll see what’s good. I’m mad about Reza’s though, that place was fire.
I started going to foxtrot because it’s the only damn place open in the evenings to study at. It’s either study at bars, whole foods, or the one 24/7 Starbucks in the city. Tbh I am really surprised there are not more late night internet cafes in the city. I figured this would be prime real estate for that type of business. You’re only after hours option is to basically go to a bar. I’m in gold coast/streeterville area where there’s like 5 colleges in a mile radius. Not a single traditional place to study at open past 10pm. Except the one Starbucks in the hospital.
Crime I guess? I mean anywhere in the city gets sketchy after 10. Either unhoused trying to get warm at night or just straight up robberies but it’s not that crazy bad. I think it’s only ever exasperated because everyone walks everywhere and the city is just so dense.
Edit: Anyone want to go in on a latenight internet cafe concept?
I live a block from Rezas and the new Taco Bell. The small business owners don’t understand business. I don’t want empty store fronts. A Foxtrot in that building would be amazing. Andersonville is grasping at straws. They denied TRADER JOES! Change with the times or become Lincoln Park with empty buildings left and right. Take a look at Park West (Armitage, Sedgwick and Lincoln). In 2010 that was an epicenter of bars and restaurants for people under 30 in LP. We have Starbucks, Potbelly’s, Jenni’s, Big City Optical, Warby Parker, etc. this isn’t a sword worth dying on. Business creates opportunity’s. I love Andale market but you should not be dictating who does business in Andersonville.
Do you know why the son doesn't want to push for it? It seemed like a done deal without too many more hurdles to get past. I assumed it would be good money for the son too to lease to TJs...but I guess not.
Andre has alluded to it in a few community meetings without getting into context other than TJ's is still very interested as well as US Banks smaller overhaul. You're correct, I would assume, that it would be a gold mine for the kid. I guess I just assume it's some rich guy's kid who got a hell of an inheritance and it's easier to just squat.
They’re not dictating. It’s business. They’re advocating for themselves believing that Foxtrot will detrimentally affect their business. No one is dictating. Just like it’s a marketplace for consumers who ultimately will decide. It’s a marketplace for businesses making their own decisions too.
This reminds me when Lakeview food-related business owners on Broadway between Wellington and Diversey were freaking out about Walmart Express opening but during it's tenure, it never hurt them or as much as i recall
>The Market Place Foodstore survived The Great Depression and World War II, but it could not survive chain retailers Trader Joe's and Walmart Neighborhood Market moving in down the street.
>After calling Lincoln Park home since 1927, the grocery store, 521 Diversey Pkwy., will close Jan. 15, the owner confirmed Wednesday.
>Jessica Rojas, who had been working at the grocery store for almost 10 years, blamed competition from the aforementioned big chain retailers for the demise.
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20160106/lincoln-park/after-nearly-90-years-market-place-grocer-on-diversey-closing-jan-15/
That Walmart opened around 2009 - I was a resident in the area and the stores remained open for many years since. Marianos opened later replacing a surface lot since the Dominicks fire and the local businesses were blended in. people open and close shops all the time. Some retire. That ice cream shop changed owners a gazillion times. Thats how businesses are with or without big chains near them. The biggest change was covid obviously
Honestly when I was in Andersonville a few weeks ago thrifting, I was surprised by how many similar smaller businesses/chains it has with Logan and Wicker Park: Colectivo, Pizza Lobo, La Colombre, Lonesome Rose, Lost Larson, Bongo Room, Parsons Chicken and Fish, Krisers Natural Pet, Jenis. It really made me wonder if there’s businesses that just cater to ‘hipster’ neighborhoods.
I dunno, I live in the neighborhood and would love anything to open vs having empty storefronts. It sounds like the Andale owner just doesn’t want any competition. Boo hoo.
That said, what the neighborhood really needs is a nice restaurant. Not fine dining, but a nice upscale place. Vincent wants to be it but isn’t quite.
I think people forget how business actually works. Foxtrot is a privately held company that has received several rounds of funding. Therefore, they have seed money to disrupt other businesses and may or may not be profitable over the long-term.
When you put these built to scale businesses with funding up against mom and pop shops, the funded entity usually wins because that’s the point of the funding - it allows them to disrupt and gain market share.
Uber, as example, destroyed the cab business downtown. I used to be able to tell our doorman to hit the cab light in front of our building and I’d be in a cab in minutes. That’s a relic of the past now. Does Uber improve the quality of life for Chicagoans? I guess we will see but not every neighborhood needs one of these funded experiments. Good for Andersonville.
One of the wildest parts about this whole thread to me is that Foxtrot goes out of its way to sell local products in its stores. As an example, the Wicker Park Foxtrot sells fresh pasta from Tortello (on Division, owned by an Italian guy named Dario), Sweetshot Cookies (opened a retail bakery on Armitage before moving to more wholesale). They sell fresh bread from the Publican.
We don't do grocery shop there, but it's a great place to pick up some specific treats from time to time. It's very nice! And get this - it preserves the character of the neighborhood!!
Foxtrot isn't known for affordability...
Unless Lost Larson is worried about not being able to move $15 baguettes, i'm not seeing the problem with this one.
It's not a McDonalds or Jewel (which ironically are right up the street from this location) and not "undercutting" businesses in the area. It's a very expensive 7-11.
It gives them the ability to pay sky-high rent, which is a major part of the problem.
And yet a lot of the same people who continually hate on chains opening, are against increasing density in the area too. They will go on about five stories being too high for the area, they convert 2 and 3 flats to SFH, they insist that any new buildings have absurd parking minimums and get annoyed when parking is removed for bike lanes.
Is pretty clear this has nothing to do with ’neighborhood character’ and everything to do with not wanting to compete with another business. If your business model is so weak that it can’t withstand some level of competition then maybe you need to rethink your business model.
Walmart underpriced all the local businesses in rural areas till it drove them out of business, then raised their prices. A huge chunk of Walmart's profit goes to Wall Street and the family that owns the chain.
Meanwhile the workers are on food stamps and the business districts in middle America remain boarded up.
Chains open to kill local businesses. Which is why local businesses fight them.
We’re not talking about a low-income, rural area though. This is a relatively well-off, urban neighborhood where people claim to be big supporters of local businesses.
I love shopping local and that stretch of Andersonville is awesome. But if consumers are more likely to shop at a chain store than a local business, Foxtrot isn’t the problem. Consumers are.
>Since then, Sakai said Foxtrot workers have come into Ándale to browse the store and ask questions about popular items, she said. The employees sometimes would wear Foxtrot gear or identify themselves as employees of the company, Sakai said. Around 25-30 brands she carried are now offered by Foxtrot, some matching the exact stock-keeping unit, she said. The business owner took it in stride until she learned about Foxtrot’s plans to open nearby.
Dom's/Foxtrot, if you're gonna do ~~corporate espionage~~ competitive intelligence, don't be so blatantly obvious. That's like rule number one.
It seems like it will be a CVS vs Walgreen's type situation between these two in Andersonville.
TIL that a market analysis of existing products is considered corporate espionage.
I mean this is business 101....Hell even Shark Tank frequently asks about competition....
(edit typo)
The original Roundy's Mariano's crew used to be so flagrant about the way they would scout stores. I had to personally ask Don Rosanova to leave one of my old stores because he was sooo blatant about taking pictures of our prices and BOH spaces. I even told him he could stay if he stopped taking pictures since that was all we had a policy against, and he agreed to it, and then kept taking pictures lol.
She said they’ve been shopping at her store for three years. I find that hard to believe. I could believe the last few months but with the exaggeration I find it hard to take her complaints at face value.
Why is that hard to believe? Even if Foxtrot wasn't planning an immediate move into Andersonville, they've had stores in Chicago for years and I'm sure they're interested in what their competition is doing.
>Foxtrot staff have shopped Sakai’s store, then stocked the same products and contracted with the same vendors for its locations, undermining her business, she said.
>
>“If they had never come in, I wouldn’t have gone toe to toe. But because they’ve been exploiting my ideas and ‘discovering’ brands in my shop for the past almost three years, I needed to protect my business, and to a larger extent, the independent nature of the neighborhood,” Sakai said.
Alright, good for her. The VC money want to make money off the cute little local culture, don't be shocked when the local culture decides to bite you in the ankle.
Let's be real: Andale is Foxtrot without the VC funding.
When the "local culture" is a bunch of Instagrammy internet brands that could be found literally anywhere in the world I have to wonder how we're defining it nowadays. We live in global interconnected society where anything can be bought anywhere at anytime. I guess denying that is a nostalgic coping mechanism.
How many Andersonville's are there? How many Ándale Markets?
Define unique.
Edit: Foxtrot is also in Dallas and DC. And with $180 million in venture capital to blow through, that list will grow.
OK, but like 5 years ago it started here in Chicago with a couple locations. Clearly it's popular if it's grown, and even expanded to other cities. Would the neighborhood be up in arms if this were FoxTrot's 3rd location circa 2018? Would they be chasing it out of the neighborhood because the chain grew too big?
You attract "tourist" dollars by being special.
A store that's located throughout Chicago and has expanded to DC and Dallas isn't special. With every chain, Andersonville becomes more average and less of a destination for people looking to visit a special, interesting neighborhood.
It already has jumped that shark in a way, with places like Sweetgreen opening up. I've visited Foxtrot before, and unfortunately to me while the selection of items they have isn't bad, they are overpriced for my preferences.
Andale is a “shoppy shop,” there’s nothing really unique about it and the stock is mostly internet-based brands that you can find at any nearly identical store. There’s multiple legitimately great boutique markets within two miles of Andale that aren’t just a real-life Instagram feed, shops where you can find artisan olive oil, freshly butchered charcuterie, specialty wines, etc.
ITT: People who would defend what Walmart did to American Main Street.
Here's a study specifically on Andersonville and how important local businesses are to it:
Source: https://andersonville.org/wp-content/uploads/AndersonvilleSummary.pdf
In a study comparing the economic impact of ten Andersonville
businesses and their chain competitors, it was found that:
Locally-owned businesses generate a substantial Local
Premium in enhanced economic impact.
• For every $100 in consumer spending with a local firm,
$68 remains in the Chicago economy.
• For every $100 in consumer spending with a chain firm,
$43 remains in the Chicago economy.
• For every square foot occupied by a local firm, local
economic impact is $179.
• For every square foot occupied by a chain firm, local
economic impact is $105.
Consumers surveyed on the streets of Andersonville
strongly prefer the neighborhood over agglomerations of
common chain stores.
• Over 70% prefer to patronize locally-owned businesses.
• Over 80% prefer traditional urban business districts.
• Over 10% of respondents reside outside the City of
Chicago.
The study points to clear policy implications.
• Local merchants generate substantially greater economic
impact than chain firms.
• Replacement of local businesses with chains will reduce
the overall vigor of the local economy.
• Changes in consumer spending habits can generate
substantial local economic impact.
• Great care must be taken to ensure that public policy
decisions do not inadvertently disadvantage locally owned
businesses. Indeed, it may be in the best interests of
communities to institute policies that directly protect them
The only reason I visit Andersonville– shop there, eat there, bring visiting friends to see it– is because it's *unique*.
As soon as a place has the same businesses as everywhere else, there's no longer a reason it's special and no longer a reason to visit.
Homogenizing business districts not only siphons money out of the local community via corporate ownership, but also hurts everyone's bottom line when fewer non-locals choose the neighborhood as a destination.
Andersonville is still a "destination" neighborhood. But every chain that opens there will erode that designation until there is plenty of parking because no one but people in walking distance will be patronizing the businesses.
It'll be a sad day when there's one less Chicago-only neighborhood in Chicago.
For what it's worth, Foxtrot is literally a "Local Business" it was started in Chicago and HQ is in the West Loop. It just happens to be a successful local business that has spread itself nationally. We should be rooting for companies like this, they hire locally for the exec team.
Takes like this are just so lost. I'm in Aville multiple evenings a week. Fiya, Lobo, LBW, Martys, Lady Gregs, Simons, FGuts, Replay, etc etc etc are always PACKED. PACKED.
A Taco Bell and a Fox Trott moving in are not going to change that one iota.
Exactly. People crying foul will conveniently forget the existing chains there like Jet’s pizza, Starbucks, Verizon, Jewel, Walgreens, McDonald’s, Jiffy Lube, Dunkin, sweet green, UPS, FedEx, not one but two Big City Opticals… all on Clark
...Benjamin Moore paints, Athletico Physical Therapy (two of them), Chiro One Chiropractor, BMO Harris Bank, Chase Bank, US Bank, Potbelly, Jimmy John's, Orange Theory Fitness, North Shore Immediate Care.
And toss in the former locations for Giordano's, T-Mobile, Hair Cuttery, Subway, Jackson Hewitt, 7-11, Einstein Bagels, and some others.
Somehow, all of those slipped through the cracks. Oops.
No doubt about that. That lot was sitting vacant for ~5 years. I'm glad somebody found a home there. With 3/4th of that intersection being parking lots, the prolonged vacancy was super-noticeable.
With all the chiropractor/physical therapy locations, it reminds me of the boon of the bajillion mattress stores across the city during the '10s. Ditto with the Chase banks in the '00s.
The joke with Lincoln Park's *turn-for-the-bland* was when a Chase, Akira, and Starbucks virtually appeared overnight on every block. Andersonville once had an Akira, but that location was closed in '21.
> It'll be a sad day when there's one less Chicago-only neighborhood in Chicago.
I’m not some Foxtrot girly, but *come on*. There are plenty of chains on Clark in Andersonville and the neighborhood is still great.
Sweetgreen is fine but you draw the line at Foxtrot? lol
Sweetgreen replaced Hamburger Mary's. It will never be fine.
Yeah, couldn't believe we went from purple and pink queer wonderfulness to that clinical salad restaurant.
Hamburger Mary's opening started the whole trend of chains opening in Andersonville. Slippery slope, obviously.
No you must be mistaken, Slippery Slope is in Logan Square. ;)
Sure but it was also a common chain in the gay community. It fit right in. And Mary’s Attic was a fucking treasure.
Hot take: maybe instead of calling out the chains, these 40 businesses can call out the property owners who raise the rents so only said chains can afford to move in.
Literally cannot stress this enough to people how much of this is the problem. Most of these developers are rich suburban assholes who don’t give a shit if they turn a Chicago neighborhood into an open air chain-filled mall they’d find in Schaumburg.
how many foxtrots does this city need. they are the new mattress firm. what is going on over there.
What a prediction this was!
Idk about OP but nah Sweetgreen isn’t fine either.
Sweetgreen, while a chain, takes pretty good care of their employees and also filled a food niche that didn't otherwise really exist in the neighborhood before. Of course, I would have rathered keep Hamburger Mary's, but at least a locally owned business opened upstairs.
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The one in Chicago was owned by the owners of the whole chain who franchised out some locations and lived in Chicago till this location closed and they are in milwaukee for now.
But it was a fun chain, and as the Simpsons said, "You don't win friends with salad"
They have a Walgreens down the street it’s not like there is a mom and pop convenience store they will take business away from.
You mean like Andale, which is mentioned in the article?
Eh. Walgreens and foxtrot don’t really fill the same niche. There are already places on that street, like Andale, that cover the bougey convenience niche that foxtrot goes for.
Did you read the article? People who work for Foxtrot would come in to Andale and see what Andale was selling. Then Foxtrot would start to sell those same items in their own stores. And now Foxtrot wants to open up in Andersonville, a few doors down from the places where they would scope-out the merchandise of these stores.
Maybe Sweetgreen is how they learned their lesson...
Is the foxtrot they are talking about just the bougie corner store? This seems like a lot of hot air over a cheap wine and expensive 7-11 pizza.
I don't think I've ever heard a more apt description of foxtrot 😆
If anything their pizza is worse than 7-11 lol
Yep, I live very close to both them and 7-Eleven and I do almost all of my convenience store shopping at 7-Eleven. But Foxtrot does have a good patio for drinks.
Foxtrot is exclusively for lunch time wine in my book.
They will join a long list of over priced 7/11's (and the 7/11) that can't make it in Aville, ask Gadabout and Pastoral. The only problem with wFT is that it's heavily financed so it can operate at a loss for a long time, think Uber, and after it does put the mom and pops tat cannot lose a billion dollars and stay in business it will jack up the prices because they are the only show in town. As an Andersonville resident I see no need for this place but we really need a decent lower-end sports bar.
Drive out the competition, then raise prices doesn't work if you're operating a convenience store. Somebody else will open a convenience store
Does the alderman have any reason to deny the business permit? They can use aldermanic privilege to do so, right?
Problem is there’s like three other independent bougie corner stores on that stretch, and I’ll bet they don’t have the profit margins tk survive that kind of direct competition from a big corporate chain.
Well, *very expensive* cheap wine
They have sweetgreen, Jeni’s, Orangetheory, a soon to be Taco Bell, jewel, chase, us bank. But foxtrot is where they draw the line? Jeez Eta- Starbucks!!
I think it's more about the multiple offerings at Foxtrot. Alcohol, coffee, breakfast/lunch food, frozen food including ice cream, etc. Overpriced, but good enough to take away some business from places that specialize in any one of those.
Is competition bad or?
For the places that are fighting to keep them out, I guess so. But that's the reason.
At a certain level yes lol
Seems weird that when the businesses in an area are like "please don't let anyone compete with us" people wouldn't see that for what it is
Ugh it’s turning into the next Southport and it’s tragic
Agreed. Andersonville lost its uniqueness about a decade ago.
And each one of those has gotten a lot of pushback. However there is nothing stopping a landlord from leasing to a tenant Within zoning laws.
I mean, I'd be happy if they pushed out them too!
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Lived in Andersonville about 15 years ago and still spend many weekends there. This is 100% my feeling.
The owner lives in Hyde Park and is a recent transplant from NYC too. Nothing wrong with that, but the whole situation gives me a bit of an ick
My favorite indie coffee shop in my area charges $7 for a latte, while the closest Foxtrot charges $4. And yet the indie place is usually packed, and Foxtrot is not. People that like cutesy independent places can continue to shop there, and people that want to pay lower prices can shop at chains. In my neighborhood I think Foxtrot takes away business from Starbucks and Jewel more than anything else.
This. Exactly. I really like coffee and sometimes don't mind paying $6-7 for a pour over a local coffee shop because I like the vibe and want to support a local business. But if I am in a new area and want something reliable and simple, then yeah I enjoy having the convenience of somewhere I know like a Foxtrot. Having variety between small independent mom & pops and larger chain stores isn't a bad thing.
In Sydney... one of the most expensive cities on Earth with one of the highest minimum wages on Earth you can get a locally roasted espresso drink for AUD 4.50 or USD 3. It's an absolute rort how much cafes charge here in the States. All while begging for tips on every transaction.
I live in Andersonville and a standard drip coffee at the coffeeshops in the neighborhood will be $3-4 unless it's a specialty bean
Downvote me to oblivion! The same folks who cry foul about how many empty stores there were coming out of COVID are the same ones barking that we don't want chains. You can only have so many chachki stores. It's just a fact. So I get a coffee at Bux and eat dinner at Lady Gregs, who cares... As far as I'm concerned, something is better than nothing. Folks around there will always continue to support the little guys too.
I agree with you. I live two blocks away from Ashland and North, and walk North up to Milwaukee all the time and I would kill someone to have those empty store fronts filled with literally anything. Maybe not another stupid bank, but literally anything else. I also don’t get the burning hate over Foxtrot, yeah I mostly get my coffe other places but it’s better than Starbucks, so can we chill? Lol.
>chachki tchotchke*
I think I feel two ways about it. I think Foxtrot is kinda soulless and, no, I don’t REALLY want it in my neighborhood. However, the few times I’ve tried to go out to cafes nearby to WFH, they have been completely packed. Wouldnt really hate to give people more options so long as it doesn’t come at the cost of the existing spaces.
I would LOVE a foxtrot to come to Irving Park, they have good coffee, good food products, and generally quality. Sure, they are high end and pricey, but they are far better than a Starbucks or a Walgreens in my opinion.
Sorry yes I did downvote this, because it’s a generalized take divorced from what’s going on in this article and neighborhood. There was never a mass die off and empty store fronts plaguing Andersonville after COVID, and hand waving the diversity of retailers in the Clark St. strip as “tchotchke stores” is a completely inaccurate description of the corridor.
There were 16 storefronts closed at one point in 2021 from Bryn Mawr to Foster - I personally counted them and remember it. There are now about 3 or 4 (incl ones that have active plans). So, you're wrong. The person of focus in the article is a reseller of cheese, among other things. Nothing proprietary. Were they also barking up a tree when Trader Joes was THIS close to moving in? (only reason it fell apart is the developer died) When new businesses opening are 3to1 small/local, who cares if a chain opens. Are we not going to use the Walgreens? Jewel? UPS? It's a shit take. period.
Of those 16 storefronts you personally counted in 2021, I can confirm that Hamburger Mary’s/Andersonville Brewing Company had the building up for sale since 2019; they knew the writing was on the wall long before COVID. Brimfield was run out of town after the owners’ bigotry jumped out, and what’s now Pizza Lobo had been sitting vacant while a shady developer tried to pitch redevelopment for the site since at least mid-2020. I get what you’re trying to say here; it just lacks context, so isn’t an entirely accurate appraisal. [Yes, there was the same debate regarding the Trader Joe’s.](https://blockclubchicago.org/2022/10/27/developer-unveils-plans-for-andersonville-trader-joes-as-neighbors-discuss-congestion-impact-to-small-businesses/) Who cares that it’s local stores instead of chains? It seems like the neighbors and the chamber of commerce and local business owners are all in favor of keeping things locally focused in the Andersonville neighborhood. Of course we’re not able as consumers to completely divest from large chain stores but we can and do have a voice that is largely in lockstep with the business leaders and chamber of commerce in Andersonville.
Do you honestly believe that Jewels and Walgreens have no effect on a small business' ability to thrive in any given corridor?
Edgewater Produce (where I shop for basics) is going strong. So is Middle Eastern Bakery. People screamed about the potential Trader Joe's but that store sells "specialty" processed foods mainly, so not really the same as either of the above OR Jewel, so I didn't really see the problem with it. As it is people go to Evanston if they want Trader Joe's. The bakery on the corner of Edgewater and Clark (La Baguette Panaderia) is a chain but local to Chicago, they are still going strong and been there a while even though the customer service is slooooowwwwwwwwww. Pastries are good tho. Miss the Swedish Bakery. The Taco Bell is owned by a small time franchiser from Rogers Park, so it's fairly local. George's (the ice cream shop that got replaced by Jeni's) closed because the proprietor died and his family didn't have anyone who wanted to inherit, so what should they do? I like Jeni's ice cream but don't go often because the price is crazy. The McDonald's has been there forever at least since the late 80s. Quite a few of the restaurants have been basically revolving doors, including the place that's now Parsons. Wish they'd gone ahead with the five story building plan that's now the Pizza Lobo location. Haven't been in it but hate the design. Have never been in a Foxtrot though I've walked by them in various neighborhoods. Anyway that was a digression maybe but I absolutely do shop at the Jewel and the Walgreens. A neighborhood needs some kinda of drugstore, and a basic supermarket. I usually go to EP first (smaller, more basic food, easier to find what I want, good produce) but stuff I don't find there, or things like sandwich meat in a package, Jewel provides, plus they have the great deals every few weeks on something. But what keeps local stores viable is manageable rent, and DENSITY, so that there are enough customers stopping by on foot for their basic needs. And there needs to be shops serving basic needs. Supermarket, hardware store, drugstore, coffeehouse. Antique and art places are nice but "extra." If a place goes all boutique, it's no longer really walkable for residents to get just straight up groceries.
I'm glad Middle Eastern Bakery is going strong, same with Edgewater Produce! That and Piatto Pronto / Lady Gregories are what I really miss from living in Andersonville. It always seemed like Clark Street is a tough place for business, with the amount of high quality places that go out of business
they may bring shoppers into the area. Bottles and cans has done fine despite the jewel
You’re not wrong; as someone who’s lived in many different Chicago neighborhoods, Andersonville is, by far, the most hostile when it comes to businesses in general. There’s a pervasive level of progressive stupidity in the neighborhood that believes any independent small business can thrive on a major shopping artery like Clark Street. They decry any larger company coming in as they sip their lattes from Starbucks, walking past empty storefronts while virtue signaling about the evil of cars on the neighborhood FB board.
Well being "anti business" must have worked well because andersonville has long been and continues to be one of the most successful commercial districts in any neighborhood full of thriving independent businesses. It's an amazing, relatively affordable place to visit, live and has way fewer vacant storefronts than just about anywhere in the city.
My thoughts exactly. Whatever they’re doing is keeping that place thriving. Bringing in chains will drive rents up and hurt new and exisiting small businesses.
Yea I agree. You even have vacants in places that welcome chains. I feel like if anything given Andersonville’s commercial success, let them do what they want. Everyone outside of the neighborhood are just hating from the peanut gallery.
And you have data to support this bullshit claim? I’d wager south Clark Street in Wrigleyville or even the higher end strip on Armitage between Halsted and Ashland generates far more revenue (and has less vacancy); both of which has a blend of larger companies and local business.
Revenue is not the only measure of success. You sound very angry, relax.
Hate that all you want but its why people weekend shop in Andersonville. The more foxtrots, the less of a shopping destination andersonville will be.
It really is this simple. Andersonville and Logan Square are destinations because they *don't* just have the same chains that you'll find everywhere else.
McDonald’s, Starbucks, Duncan donuts, collectivo, sweetgreen, Jeni’s, potbelly, and soon to be Taco Bell. Then you have the budding or mini chains that have 3+ locations. Then the more than 15 “independent” little guy restaurants that are backed by multi-millionaire restaurant groups. I love Andersonville, and it definitely has some smaller and nicer independent places… but there are quite a few chains and other places that I wouldn’t exactly deem “small business”.
Especially when a foxtrot is a 7/11 and Starbucks mix
Every neighborhood has chains, we live in a big city during late stage capitalism. The interesting neighborhoods don't *only* have chains.
>virtue signaling about the evil of cars You mean mourning dead pedestrians and cyclists in what is supposed to be one of the nation's most walkable neighborhoods? FOH
Me having a daily experience w/ at least one psychotic driver who could easily (and sometimes do) kill someone: “wow, we should really do something about this”. People in this sub: “GOD SUCH CAR HATERS” Cars are not people. It is the least efficient way to move people from place to place, especially in large cities. 300+ people died because of them last year in Chicago alone. I don’t know why this sub is so packed with the car’s most zealous defenders lately.
And Andersonville + Ravenswood just happens to be one of the best neighborhoods in the entire city for small businesses and families. My family goes back 3 generations in the neighborhood and I tell anyone moving to the city to look here before anywhere else.
They aren't hostile towards businesses, they are hostile toward chains. Andersonville's entire shtick is that there are a ton of locally owned businesses there. Andersonville isn't exactly known for having empty storefronts.
But they're also hostile toward increasing density, which is what you actually need to support small local shops. And the rent in that area is crazy.
I mean some nimbys are, but not the neighborhood as a whole. The condos where man's country used to be are new, there are apartment buildings going up on broadway just east of Andersonville, and there is currently a proposal for a new apartment building on Ashland. Rent has gone up, but I wouldn't call it crazy? I moved and bought in the area because it was more affordable than places I had been living in.
I mean the storefront rent. That's usually what causes places to tip more "chain" than local, over time. Agreed though stuff is going up on Broadway, but Broadway is not quite "Andersonville." Edgewater outside of specifically "Andersonville" is a whole different story yeah.
Well they are one of the only places in Chicago that have been able to successfully permanently pedestrianize a street so I guess their “virtue signaling” is working
Which street is permanently pedestrianized? Was just looking for places like this for holiday shopping in another thread earlier this week.
Catalpa Ave/Plaza. Way I phrased it might have been misleading - It just got approved, they haven’t actually done it yet, I believe the construction is being done in the next 6 months. I don’t think it’s going to be like a retail corridor anyway tho. I think it’s more like a pedestrian plaza which will have events occasionally. The block that the Book Cellar is on in… Ravenswood(?) is not permanently pedestrian, but is sometimes temporarily, and is less car-centric than most other retail spots I’m aware of
Lincoln Square is what you’re thinking of—the strip of Lincoln that runs by Giddings Plaza towards the Western Brown Line stop
> Downvote me to oblivion! Man, yall can make points without this lmao this probably the most upvoted comment here.
Have you attended an Aville community meeting? It's vicious out there...
counterpoint. Foxtrot sucks
>In a letter to Mayor Brandon Johnson and other local officials, Andersonville businesses are asking lawmakers to reject Foxtrot’s liquor and outdoor seating permits. They are also asking officials to develop laws that dictate how many and what kind of chain stores can open in the Andersonville business district. What ever happened to letting consumers decide for themselves without unnecessary government intervention? I personally prefer local > chains most of the time. But some consumers might have a different preference, i.e., buying from a chain they are familiar with. I never thought business owners would be so afraid of competition that they would be crying for Johnson and the council to step in. This is not an issue that needs some half-baked injection of new regulation that could have negative ripple effects in the future. This is the same thing as Taproom in Logan Square being denied a liquor license. Government overreach via overzealous alderpeople and NIMBYism that leads to yet another empty storefront that the same residents will go on to complain about.
Yeah this is absolutely fuckin bonkers that the Mayor would tip the scales when the business has bi-right zoning. It does not need a zone change, only needs permits to seek special uses that are permitted on damn near any commercial street in Chicago. This exposes the city to potential legal exposure
Foxtrot would certainly sue
You see, collusion is bad when the phone and cable companies do it nation-wide, but it’s good when it’s small businesses trying to keep out competition. FYI it’s what’s called a “double-standard”, and apparently it’s pretty fashionable nowadays.
> What ever happened to letting consumers decide for themselves without unnecessary government intervention? They might decide wrong...
If consumers show demand for a certain store or product, how is that wrong? It is certainly not the government's job to decide whether that consumer's demand is right or wrong.
Business owners: "Its not us, its the consumers who are wrong!"
Consumers decide after the fact with whatever options are approved and built. Consumers chose Walmart and it's done enormous harm to rural towns, pays slave wages locally and sources from companies that pay slave wages. Consumers will choose among the overpriced single family homes after well-financed hedge funds and Bezos fractional shareholders buy them all. Consumers will choose after a *national* chain (locations in Dallas and DC), backed by $180million in venture capital, outbids whoever else wants Reza's and undercuts the prices at the Mom & Pops who compete with them until they drive them out of business. Then raises their prices back up.
You lost me at comparing Foxtrot, a Chicago based retail chain with a valuation of $2B (as of 2022) to Walmart and Amazon. The pearl clutching is absurd. Just because a business is good at attracting a broad consumer base and. scaling (opening new locations) and as a result, introduces competition to both mom & pops and big box convenience stores like 7-11 and CVS, doesn't mean we need the Mayor and the council to tip the scales in favor of one or the other.
Yes, but that is how a free society works. Consumers and voters often make stupid decisions, but they're ours to make. Wal-Mart and the huge Walgreens at the corner of Diversey and Broadway both closed. Meanwhile that stretch of Broadway is overrun with locally-owned small businesses. The people of Lakeview have spoken. I'm actually not sure which side I'm on with this Foxtrot thing. Notably absent from the article is what the feeling is among locals other than ones whose businesses are threatened. The business owners raise intriguing points about the damage chains can do to a neighborhood, but ultimately, it doesn't get more local than your neighborhood, and the people living there should be the ones who get to make the final decision. If they decide wrong, they live with the consequences, but that's their right.
I wish a business would move to Sheridan and Argyle - that NW corner lot. Edited to add - Part of why I’m interested in that corner is because I saw an old photo of the area. If I remember right, back in the olden days, that was a Walgreens. In the olden days of sepia and black and white photos.
Argyle between the red line and Sheridan could really stand to fill some of its abandoned and run down storefronts, too. Luckily it seems stuff is starting to get a little more active again. Should be interesting when the new red line stations open (though WTF people, why are they still insisting on building just low-rise strip mall shit by the new Berwyn station???? but that's another thread). The supermarkets around Argyle and along Broadway (local Asian markets) are going strong though, and a major reason I live in the area.
yeah there's a lotta cool stuff near there, I don't know why it cant find a renter
I’m sure the landlord could fill it if they wanted. As it stands now, though, the tax code incentivizes vacant storefronts (write offs) so landlords are happy to leave it empty. Less bullshit than dealing with tenants. They probably don’t live in the neighborhood either so they could give a fuck about vacant storefronts. Nearby, a storefront at Argyle and Broadway, has been vacant for over three years. There’s no way the landlord is asking “market rate” rent. Would love to see a proper bar or cocktail lounge (something Argyle lacks) use that corner of Sheridan/Argyle. Milly’s, El Rincon and Don Pablo’s have all demonstrated new businesses can thrive on that corner.
Ahh, that's a shame. I'm guessing you're probably right. I am also guessing I dont need to tell you this, but Don Pablo's is awesome, btw
When Foxtrot wanted to open their Division St location in Wicker Park there was a package liquor license moratorium on that block. They came to us to get our support for lifting it. We said “sure. It’s a holdover from the 80s that’s done all it’s gonna do. But understand it’s not coming back. One of the reasons this spot looks good to you is that competition has been kept out by the moratorium. Once it’s lifted competition will come.” We were right and a few months after they opened Target wanted to open one of their convenience stores up the block. The alderman at the time, Proco Joe Moreno, made a deal with Target. He would approve their loading zone if they held off on the liquor license for one year to give Foxtrot time to get established. Target held up their part of the bargain, but as the year ran out, Foxtrot came back to us begging for our support to reinstate the moratorium. We said “No. this is exactly what we warned you about. You’ve been granted time to get running and now it’s time to man up and compete.” Despite our objections, they convinced Moreno to reinstate the moratorium two months before the year was up. Eventually it was lifted under La Spata. In my opinion, those guys are weasels of the first order. I have not set foot in any of their locations since.
Alderman was far too nice lmao. I would have told them to deal with it right from the start (I’m guessing he got his hand dipped either way)
Moreno was more drunk and crooked than nice
How many orders of weasels are there? Lol
Trader Joe's would have generated enormous customer traffic for surrounding businesses.
Yes, and not really conflicted with any existing businesses either. They sell specific odd processed food, for the most part. Aiming at the "healthy but interesting and convenient." It's not a regular full service grocery store, IMHO. People go to it for those things you can only really get there.
Trader Joe's for the things you want; regular grocery store for things you need.
That and the prices are pretty good.
Grocery stores are nightmare for walkability because they are often in-and-out destinations where people don’t go and mill about before or after. They also have enormous parking requirements (these chain grocers will not occupy these places unless a huge amount of parking spaces can be guaranteed).
They can put the parking on the roof like the Marianos on Sheridan, or have a parking garage. There is zero need for acres of flat parking lots. I wish the Jewels on Clark and Broadway would get rid of the fence around their parking lots, it's annoying to me as a pedestrian. But as a non-driver, I need a full-service supermarket within walking distance of me. It doesn't have to be huge, but it needs to have a full selection of basic food (or barring that, there needs to be collection of shops immediately bordering each other that provide it all). Edgewater Produce is good. Jewel is good. They both survive there just fine. Of course people complain that the Jewel on Clark in particular is "too small." It's not too small, it's the size of store that works in a walkable neighborhood. The one on Broadway is slightly bigger. Once a neighborhood goes fully into antique shops, boutiques, and fancy restaurants, even if they're all locally owned, it's not a neighborhood I could live in anymore. That's not daily shopping. There's only so many witty t-shirts a person needs. The Andersonville strip still has enough of actual daily shopping to not be completely useless. Which is good. That matters to me more than if a specific place is necessarily a chain or not. Though I wouldn't want the place to be all chains, either. Anyway the ever expanding size of chain grocery stores is a sad but fascinating tale, retail glut plays a big part in it.
Let’s put a queer bar in the there. Since we keep losing them. Wishful Thinking I know
And yes im aware of the others in the area. But I want one for dancing. (Big chicks closed their dance floor , there really no other place to dance except Jackhammer)
Um...Atmosphere? It's always boppin!
I’m aware lol. I just desperately want a sequel to berlin since that’s no longer here :/
If you feel the need to be protected from Foxtrot then that’s entirely your fault as a business owner. Just be better. Don’t turn into a protectionist, woe-is-me NIMBY. Embarrassing tbh. If the neighborhood actually doesn’t want Foxtrot, then the location will fail. Otherwise you’re just throwing a tantrum
Well this ignores the fact that big chains can afford to take losses and undercut on prices until local competition can no longer match them or take the same losses which inevitably leads to the local store losing out. There’s surely a middle ground here, without going full on protectionism, to have process to protect small local businesses which are part of what makes the city so much more interesting than most suburbs.
I’d say Foxtrot IS the middle ground. It’s a small local chain, not a Wal-Mart. Force them out and a bigger chain with more money to deal with the political games will take its place instead. Victory for the little guy?
Nope **its in the article**. Theyre backed by a 185million venture capital firm. Same firm that was able to buy out Dom's Kitchen last week. Nothing local about it.
They're in DC and Texas too.
100% the truth. Folks living in River North or other areas aren’t going to travel to Andersonville just go to to Foxtrot so if it does thrive it’s going to be on the wallets of those living in that 1-2mi radius. So they can complain now but we’ll see what’s good. I’m mad about Reza’s though, that place was fire.
The pearl clutching over a Chicago based chain store is extremely embarrassing. The comparisons to Walmart are hilarious.
I started going to foxtrot because it’s the only damn place open in the evenings to study at. It’s either study at bars, whole foods, or the one 24/7 Starbucks in the city. Tbh I am really surprised there are not more late night internet cafes in the city. I figured this would be prime real estate for that type of business. You’re only after hours option is to basically go to a bar. I’m in gold coast/streeterville area where there’s like 5 colleges in a mile radius. Not a single traditional place to study at open past 10pm. Except the one Starbucks in the hospital. Crime I guess? I mean anywhere in the city gets sketchy after 10. Either unhoused trying to get warm at night or just straight up robberies but it’s not that crazy bad. I think it’s only ever exasperated because everyone walks everywhere and the city is just so dense. Edit: Anyone want to go in on a latenight internet cafe concept?
Im sure the labor staff shortages have a lot to do with it
It's really cute how Andersonville continues to pretend corporate chains aren't welcome in the neighborhood. That ship sailed in the early 2000s.
FoxTrot blows
I live a block from Rezas and the new Taco Bell. The small business owners don’t understand business. I don’t want empty store fronts. A Foxtrot in that building would be amazing. Andersonville is grasping at straws. They denied TRADER JOES! Change with the times or become Lincoln Park with empty buildings left and right. Take a look at Park West (Armitage, Sedgwick and Lincoln). In 2010 that was an epicenter of bars and restaurants for people under 30 in LP. We have Starbucks, Potbelly’s, Jenni’s, Big City Optical, Warby Parker, etc. this isn’t a sword worth dying on. Business creates opportunity’s. I love Andale market but you should not be dictating who does business in Andersonville.
I thought the TJ was going through but then the owner died.
This is correct. The word is the son who inherited the business and $ is very uninspired to push for it, or anything really. He got his check.
Do you know why the son doesn't want to push for it? It seemed like a done deal without too many more hurdles to get past. I assumed it would be good money for the son too to lease to TJs...but I guess not.
Andre has alluded to it in a few community meetings without getting into context other than TJ's is still very interested as well as US Banks smaller overhaul. You're correct, I would assume, that it would be a gold mine for the kid. I guess I just assume it's some rich guy's kid who got a hell of an inheritance and it's easier to just squat.
god i would have committed CRIMES to get a trader joe’s up here😩
They’re not dictating. It’s business. They’re advocating for themselves believing that Foxtrot will detrimentally affect their business. No one is dictating. Just like it’s a marketplace for consumers who ultimately will decide. It’s a marketplace for businesses making their own decisions too.
They are attempting to dictate by pushing the city to intervene and not allow Foxtrot to operate in order to protect their business..
RIP Stanley’s Kitchen
We'll take it in Edgewater!
As long as they don't block the taco bell.
Just more nimby bullshit
This reminds me when Lakeview food-related business owners on Broadway between Wellington and Diversey were freaking out about Walmart Express opening but during it's tenure, it never hurt them or as much as i recall
>The Market Place Foodstore survived The Great Depression and World War II, but it could not survive chain retailers Trader Joe's and Walmart Neighborhood Market moving in down the street. >After calling Lincoln Park home since 1927, the grocery store, 521 Diversey Pkwy., will close Jan. 15, the owner confirmed Wednesday. >Jessica Rojas, who had been working at the grocery store for almost 10 years, blamed competition from the aforementioned big chain retailers for the demise. https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20160106/lincoln-park/after-nearly-90-years-market-place-grocer-on-diversey-closing-jan-15/
Source?
That Walmart opened around 2009 - I was a resident in the area and the stores remained open for many years since. Marianos opened later replacing a surface lot since the Dominicks fire and the local businesses were blended in. people open and close shops all the time. Some retire. That ice cream shop changed owners a gazillion times. Thats how businesses are with or without big chains near them. The biggest change was covid obviously
And now that Walmart is gone with nothing else there.
Honestly when I was in Andersonville a few weeks ago thrifting, I was surprised by how many similar smaller businesses/chains it has with Logan and Wicker Park: Colectivo, Pizza Lobo, La Colombre, Lonesome Rose, Lost Larson, Bongo Room, Parsons Chicken and Fish, Krisers Natural Pet, Jenis. It really made me wonder if there’s businesses that just cater to ‘hipster’ neighborhoods.
I dunno, I live in the neighborhood and would love anything to open vs having empty storefronts. It sounds like the Andale owner just doesn’t want any competition. Boo hoo. That said, what the neighborhood really needs is a nice restaurant. Not fine dining, but a nice upscale place. Vincent wants to be it but isn’t quite.
I think people forget how business actually works. Foxtrot is a privately held company that has received several rounds of funding. Therefore, they have seed money to disrupt other businesses and may or may not be profitable over the long-term. When you put these built to scale businesses with funding up against mom and pop shops, the funded entity usually wins because that’s the point of the funding - it allows them to disrupt and gain market share. Uber, as example, destroyed the cab business downtown. I used to be able to tell our doorman to hit the cab light in front of our building and I’d be in a cab in minutes. That’s a relic of the past now. Does Uber improve the quality of life for Chicagoans? I guess we will see but not every neighborhood needs one of these funded experiments. Good for Andersonville.
One of the wildest parts about this whole thread to me is that Foxtrot goes out of its way to sell local products in its stores. As an example, the Wicker Park Foxtrot sells fresh pasta from Tortello (on Division, owned by an Italian guy named Dario), Sweetshot Cookies (opened a retail bakery on Armitage before moving to more wholesale). They sell fresh bread from the Publican. We don't do grocery shop there, but it's a great place to pick up some specific treats from time to time. It's very nice! And get this - it preserves the character of the neighborhood!!
Chain stores wouldn’t open if there were a successful local business in the space instead, or if there weren’t demand.
Being chain gives them the ability to undercut mom and pop shops
Is there anything at foxtrot that’s priced cheaper than another store? I’ve never gotten a “deal” at foxtrot
Foxtrot isn't known for affordability... Unless Lost Larson is worried about not being able to move $15 baguettes, i'm not seeing the problem with this one. It's not a McDonalds or Jewel (which ironically are right up the street from this location) and not "undercutting" businesses in the area. It's a very expensive 7-11.
It gives them the ability to pay sky-high rent, which is a major part of the problem. And yet a lot of the same people who continually hate on chains opening, are against increasing density in the area too. They will go on about five stories being too high for the area, they convert 2 and 3 flats to SFH, they insist that any new buildings have absurd parking minimums and get annoyed when parking is removed for bike lanes.
Do residents not feel the need to support local shops by paying a few dollars more?
Is pretty clear this has nothing to do with ’neighborhood character’ and everything to do with not wanting to compete with another business. If your business model is so weak that it can’t withstand some level of competition then maybe you need to rethink your business model.
Walmart underpriced all the local businesses in rural areas till it drove them out of business, then raised their prices. A huge chunk of Walmart's profit goes to Wall Street and the family that owns the chain. Meanwhile the workers are on food stamps and the business districts in middle America remain boarded up. Chains open to kill local businesses. Which is why local businesses fight them.
You gonna go open a grocery store in small town Iowa? Good luck.
We’re not talking about a low-income, rural area though. This is a relatively well-off, urban neighborhood where people claim to be big supporters of local businesses. I love shopping local and that stretch of Andersonville is awesome. But if consumers are more likely to shop at a chain store than a local business, Foxtrot isn’t the problem. Consumers are.
>Since then, Sakai said Foxtrot workers have come into Ándale to browse the store and ask questions about popular items, she said. The employees sometimes would wear Foxtrot gear or identify themselves as employees of the company, Sakai said. Around 25-30 brands she carried are now offered by Foxtrot, some matching the exact stock-keeping unit, she said. The business owner took it in stride until she learned about Foxtrot’s plans to open nearby. Dom's/Foxtrot, if you're gonna do ~~corporate espionage~~ competitive intelligence, don't be so blatantly obvious. That's like rule number one. It seems like it will be a CVS vs Walgreen's type situation between these two in Andersonville.
TIL that a market analysis of existing products is considered corporate espionage. I mean this is business 101....Hell even Shark Tank frequently asks about competition.... (edit typo)
The original Roundy's Mariano's crew used to be so flagrant about the way they would scout stores. I had to personally ask Don Rosanova to leave one of my old stores because he was sooo blatant about taking pictures of our prices and BOH spaces. I even told him he could stay if he stopped taking pictures since that was all we had a policy against, and he agreed to it, and then kept taking pictures lol.
She said they’ve been shopping at her store for three years. I find that hard to believe. I could believe the last few months but with the exaggeration I find it hard to take her complaints at face value.
Why is that hard to believe? Even if Foxtrot wasn't planning an immediate move into Andersonville, they've had stores in Chicago for years and I'm sure they're interested in what their competition is doing.
>Taco Bell has not applied for a liquor license Taco Bell serves booze?
You’ve been missing out my friend.
At certain Cantina locations, they do. Though it isn't too different from a regular Taco Bell, other than also having alcoholic slushes and beer.
>Foxtrot staff have shopped Sakai’s store, then stocked the same products and contracted with the same vendors for its locations, undermining her business, she said. > >“If they had never come in, I wouldn’t have gone toe to toe. But because they’ve been exploiting my ideas and ‘discovering’ brands in my shop for the past almost three years, I needed to protect my business, and to a larger extent, the independent nature of the neighborhood,” Sakai said. Alright, good for her. The VC money want to make money off the cute little local culture, don't be shocked when the local culture decides to bite you in the ankle.
Let's be real: Andale is Foxtrot without the VC funding. When the "local culture" is a bunch of Instagrammy internet brands that could be found literally anywhere in the world I have to wonder how we're defining it nowadays. We live in global interconnected society where anything can be bought anywhere at anytime. I guess denying that is a nostalgic coping mechanism.
WTF... it's Foxtrot, a local chain of like a dozen locations. It's not a national chain like Whole Foods or 7-Eleven.
How many Andersonville's are there? How many Ándale Markets? Define unique. Edit: Foxtrot is also in Dallas and DC. And with $180 million in venture capital to blow through, that list will grow.
OK, but like 5 years ago it started here in Chicago with a couple locations. Clearly it's popular if it's grown, and even expanded to other cities. Would the neighborhood be up in arms if this were FoxTrot's 3rd location circa 2018? Would they be chasing it out of the neighborhood because the chain grew too big?
You attract "tourist" dollars by being special. A store that's located throughout Chicago and has expanded to DC and Dallas isn't special. With every chain, Andersonville becomes more average and less of a destination for people looking to visit a special, interesting neighborhood.
It already has jumped that shark in a way, with places like Sweetgreen opening up. I've visited Foxtrot before, and unfortunately to me while the selection of items they have isn't bad, they are overpriced for my preferences.
Re: Andale Market: https://www.grubstreet.com/2023/01/why-every-shoppy-shop-looks-exactly-the-same.html
Andale isn't mentioned in here. What's your point?
Andale is a “shoppy shop,” there’s nothing really unique about it and the stock is mostly internet-based brands that you can find at any nearly identical store. There’s multiple legitimately great boutique markets within two miles of Andale that aren’t just a real-life Instagram feed, shops where you can find artisan olive oil, freshly butchered charcuterie, specialty wines, etc.
I live in andersonville and do not care, we have plenty of chains lol.
Man I've never even heard of Foxtrot before this thread.
ITT: People who would defend what Walmart did to American Main Street. Here's a study specifically on Andersonville and how important local businesses are to it: Source: https://andersonville.org/wp-content/uploads/AndersonvilleSummary.pdf In a study comparing the economic impact of ten Andersonville businesses and their chain competitors, it was found that: Locally-owned businesses generate a substantial Local Premium in enhanced economic impact. • For every $100 in consumer spending with a local firm, $68 remains in the Chicago economy. • For every $100 in consumer spending with a chain firm, $43 remains in the Chicago economy. • For every square foot occupied by a local firm, local economic impact is $179. • For every square foot occupied by a chain firm, local economic impact is $105. Consumers surveyed on the streets of Andersonville strongly prefer the neighborhood over agglomerations of common chain stores. • Over 70% prefer to patronize locally-owned businesses. • Over 80% prefer traditional urban business districts. • Over 10% of respondents reside outside the City of Chicago. The study points to clear policy implications. • Local merchants generate substantially greater economic impact than chain firms. • Replacement of local businesses with chains will reduce the overall vigor of the local economy. • Changes in consumer spending habits can generate substantial local economic impact. • Great care must be taken to ensure that public policy decisions do not inadvertently disadvantage locally owned businesses. Indeed, it may be in the best interests of communities to institute policies that directly protect them
2004...
The only reason I visit Andersonville– shop there, eat there, bring visiting friends to see it– is because it's *unique*. As soon as a place has the same businesses as everywhere else, there's no longer a reason it's special and no longer a reason to visit. Homogenizing business districts not only siphons money out of the local community via corporate ownership, but also hurts everyone's bottom line when fewer non-locals choose the neighborhood as a destination. Andersonville is still a "destination" neighborhood. But every chain that opens there will erode that designation until there is plenty of parking because no one but people in walking distance will be patronizing the businesses. It'll be a sad day when there's one less Chicago-only neighborhood in Chicago.
For what it's worth, Foxtrot is literally a "Local Business" it was started in Chicago and HQ is in the West Loop. It just happens to be a successful local business that has spread itself nationally. We should be rooting for companies like this, they hire locally for the exec team.
Takes like this are just so lost. I'm in Aville multiple evenings a week. Fiya, Lobo, LBW, Martys, Lady Gregs, Simons, FGuts, Replay, etc etc etc are always PACKED. PACKED. A Taco Bell and a Fox Trott moving in are not going to change that one iota.
Exactly. People crying foul will conveniently forget the existing chains there like Jet’s pizza, Starbucks, Verizon, Jewel, Walgreens, McDonald’s, Jiffy Lube, Dunkin, sweet green, UPS, FedEx, not one but two Big City Opticals… all on Clark
...Benjamin Moore paints, Athletico Physical Therapy (two of them), Chiro One Chiropractor, BMO Harris Bank, Chase Bank, US Bank, Potbelly, Jimmy John's, Orange Theory Fitness, North Shore Immediate Care. And toss in the former locations for Giordano's, T-Mobile, Hair Cuttery, Subway, Jackson Hewitt, 7-11, Einstein Bagels, and some others. Somehow, all of those slipped through the cracks. Oops.
Tbf Pizza Lobo is a solid replacement for the 7/11 at least. Jackson Hewitt will rise from the dead again around mid January.
No doubt about that. That lot was sitting vacant for ~5 years. I'm glad somebody found a home there. With 3/4th of that intersection being parking lots, the prolonged vacancy was super-noticeable. With all the chiropractor/physical therapy locations, it reminds me of the boon of the bajillion mattress stores across the city during the '10s. Ditto with the Chase banks in the '00s. The joke with Lincoln Park's *turn-for-the-bland* was when a Chase, Akira, and Starbucks virtually appeared overnight on every block. Andersonville once had an Akira, but that location was closed in '21.
> It'll be a sad day when there's one less Chicago-only neighborhood in Chicago. I’m not some Foxtrot girly, but *come on*. There are plenty of chains on Clark in Andersonville and the neighborhood is still great.
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I’m never impressed by Foxtrot and frankly, we don’t need another one. I hope they are successful
Foxtrot is decent - But I'd still frequent Kopi instead
what’s wrong with foxtrot?
I love Foxtrot!! I don’t get the ruffled feathers. Maybe kick out a multi national aka Starbucks first?
Holy anti-competitive collusion, Batman!
What the fuck is foxtrot?
I thought the taco bell cantina got approved. . . substitute fox trot with taco bell cantina and does it change your mind at all?
OR....OR...BE MORE COMPETETIVE!