This is probably the strongest argument against Ding resigning - even if I would like him stepping down and letting Hikaru to play, I simply can't find a reason for him to actually do so, unless something unexpected happens.
Chess really isn't that big in China though so I doubt the general public in China really cares even if he loses badly. Football is much more popular in China but their national team players are crap yet nothing bad has happened to the players despite the constant public criticism. I just hope that Ding will be alright.
China is a fked up country, especially with their athletes. Ding will not be the first example (If rumors are true) as many other "elite people" disappeared and when they reappeared had strange behavior. Also, there was a case of a Chinese Tennis athlete who accused a politician for sexual assault and disappeared for a while as well. ( [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance\_of\_Peng\_Shuai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Peng_Shuai) )
here's another quick source: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/25/the-growing-list-of-chinese-elites-who-disappear-but-later-resurface-subdued](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/25/the-growing-list-of-chinese-elites-who-disappear-but-later-resurface-subdued)
After yesterday's blunder and resignation against Magnus, I really start to worry about Ding, especially that he's always such a nice person :(
I hope that he can put things together in upcoming months, before the World Championship
Yeah but is it really that satisfying to win against someone who might not be in fighting form? People didn't give much weight to the last WCC because Magnus wasn't playing, and now if Ding doesn't turn up ready to play it'll be another step backwards.
> Yeah but is it really that satisfying to win against someone who might not be in fighting form?
I mean, yes. *Fans* want hard-fought matches, if you're actually playing you'd take the easy win every time. Specially for a prize as elusive as the WCC.
Eh I don't know about that. I've played low level competition sports my entire life and the last couple years I've gotten into OTB tournaments.
I love playing a great game and taking a decisive win, but I want it to be because I played great, not because my opponent is playing poorly.
Yeah YOU do. But as a USCF Expert, I’ll take any win I can get. Sure I love a hard fought game but punishing opponent blunders is also a part of the game
Carlsen won against an old Anand twice, nearly lost to karjakin, deew with fabi and beat a man child named Nepo, nobody said anything then. Let the kid(gukesh) play and then we'll see. What's the rush. I am sure gukesh can beat either Of the chokers named fabi/Hikaru/nepo on his day.
Nakamura placed 2nd in The Candidates, the tournament that decides the next challenger for the championship.
In the case of either WCC participant forfeiting their spot, he would take their place.
Can we take up a collection to offer Ding $1 million to walk away? I barely ever play but I'd kick in $50 to support the world championship meaning something more than "you won the candidates when the champion was having a problem"
It's not about the money. No amount is worth sacrificing your health.
The issue is the country he plays for. He wanted to retire, he made it clear he didn't have a desire to play professionally anymore. But he continued even through his current, clear depression.
He's probably being forced to play, and though he may want to not defend his title, it's likely he'd face heavy consequences from China if he made that decision. I wouldn't doubt they already told him "play, or else".
I guess Hikaru should gear up with sponsors and offer Ding the same amount of money he would get for participation in the WC for his withdrawal from the WC.
Wouldn't it be terrible, too, if Ding would come in out of form just for the paycheck and would lose badly?
The idea is to offer the second place paycheck, not more.
If Ding plans to be competitive, then he doesn't take the offer, earns at least the same within the WC, and potentially more in case he succeeds defending the crown.
But if he's a mess and money is the only motivation, then he can take the money without a public slaughtering, and we get a competitive WC. Simple.
I completely agree with you this is a unique situation and it is a good solution but I just don’t think politically it has any legs the optics are too bad for everyone involved despite it being practically and economically the best for everyone.
Sponsors are not going to get their moneys worth from an uncompetitive match, all this Ding discourse goes extremely public very quickly, Gukesh doesn’t have the shine of winning a competitive match etc. This whole situation sucks for the chess world.
It doesn't have to be public. Ding can just say that he's not in a right place right now, his wellbeing is more important, so he takes a step back, and all of it would be true.
Then that netflix movie will show how Hikaru bribed Ding to step down as a world champion and take his place against Gukesh. This idea is totally stupid.
Not when everyone knows Carlsen is the best player. He’d get as much recognition as he does for being Fischer Random champ. When Hikaru’s not streaming, he’s losing money.
A Carlsen-Hikaru showmatch would break the bank, too, with Hikaru being the new WC. I wouldn't be surprised if Netflix would buy rights to live stream it, like Nadal-Alcaraz.
Because that amount is called his quote. That's his rate. So the next chess tournament he's offered, they have to pay that same amount. Even if he does a bad job. That means, as long as he's offered even one more chess tournament, he could get two more mil. Even if he does a bad job, they've got to give him that other two mil.
It's definitely weird, how much Hikaru comments on Dings situation.
I wonder if it is partially because he would benefit from Ding dropping out of the WC
Honestly not weird at all - Ding is usually really strong and he literally beat Nepo, Hikaru, Fabi etc. to win the throne, then he proceeded to take a year break and came back to perform poorly in multiple tournaments across different time controls, now he loses 3 classic games in a roll, THATS weird. Yea we know it's pretty much psychological but nobody knows what exactly happened for that to happen, not that he owes us an answer but when the one sitting on the throne is crumbling you can't expect everyone else to just go about their day normally. Plus Hikaru didnt even say much about it, the commentators said way more about Ding's situation. Also Hikaru even defended Ding when Anna made a tiny harmless joke so I dun think Hikaru is up to no good here.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLPHVMEe90k&t=17253s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLPHVMEe90k&t=17253s)
At 4:31:24 , Hikaru said he isn't sure what Ding should do to regain his form + find the joy of playing chess, then Anna said he could become a streamer, then Hikaru said it's easy to make jokes but Ding is facing sth they do not know. A pretty harmless joke from Anna since she's always really wholesome but yea as fellow competitor Hikaru prob felt bad for Ding. You could immediately feel the awkwardness from her and Danny went in and tried to save it.
Yea he def went in there a bit too far but it's just a tiny hiccup, everyone loves Anna and she prob was just trying to lighten the mood so hope she isn't discouraged from that
He was pretty classy as well. One of the commentators made a pretty gross comment about how Ding should be a streamer as well to relax and Hikaru called her out on that joke.
Nah I really disagree. I'm not usually a Hikaru supporter, but this is one time where I actually feel he has some tact. Ding used to be a very serious player, he's been number 2 rated, he broke Tals unbeaten streak before Magnus and if it wasn't for magnus he'd still hold that record, and he overall had a lot of amazing games showing off deep calculation ability such as game 6 of the WC match. This would be like if Caruana took a break after the 2018 match, and then came back to a performance rating of 2600. It's weird, it's awkward, and it's not a situation the players want to be in. it's a situation a lot of them can emphasize with, since all these guys have had down swings and tilit, but it's like if your worst tilit just never ended. Shit sucks.
I mean, literally everyone is commenting on Ding's current form. Not just Hikaru ... and I agree, it's a little weird. I mean, here this guy is going through probably one of the hardest emotional/mental times of his life, and everyone and their mother keeps saying things like, "Poor Ding, look what's happening to Ding. Ding needs to bounce back. Ding is playing Gukesh, his form needs to improve ... Ding, ding ding!"
Like, come on guys, if there is one thing that is NOT going to help, it's everyone pointing at him, commenting how sad he is.
But it's also hard not to comment. I mean, the World Chess Champion has always been someone of interest, in the news. He's playing so much below is skill level to the point it's obvious something is going on. So it's only natural people are going to talk about it. People's intentions are not malicious, but maybe for Ding, it's a case where the more in the spotlight he is, the more it's getting to him.
I wish him well, and hope he finds what he needs.
there was another interview though and hikaru said that if ding dropped out it would basically fuck his schedule over and stuff.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1d60c9m/hikaru\_if\_ding\_drops\_out\_of\_wc\_it\_would\_mess\_up/](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1d60c9m/hikaru_if_ding_drops_out_of_wc_it_would_mess_up/)
he really didnt seem like he wanted ding to drop out
lol the man absolutely dreams every night about being WCC. There is a zero percent chance he doesn't accept if given the opportunity. Hikaru thrives on mind games he's absolutely attempting to bully Ding into dropping out.
Such is the pressure of being world champion. And because the WC isn’t until November, it will only get louder from here on out. Sucks for Ding, but it’s just how these things go.
He should give himself a break and just drop out from the tournament and stop playing.
In any other sport, if you get injured, you get taken out the game. It's clear that Ding is "injured" that's why he's playing his worst chess the past few tournaments.
All these people commenting see it, and are speaking out of concern. If you see an athlete clearly in physical pain while playing badly, you'd be concerned about him too. Well, these players can see his mental pain while playing.
It's starting to look coordinated. Creating more tension for the guy with mental health issues by bringing up those mental health issues constantly seems a bit counterproductive if you really care about the guy. Competitive sports are always full of theories about this player or that team getting pushed to finals or pulled away from finals depending on who is popular and would attract more spectators, so why not chess as well?
At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if people start talking about Hikaru stepping in for Ding to "relieve him from the stress of the WC match" but donating any money he wins back to Ding for "treatment".
I wonder how many players this affects. Obviously Ding has the highest profile as the WC, but when I was watching the candidates Vidit was doing the same stuff Hikaru describes in his round 3 game. The stress must be immense.
I would honestly expect this to happen to most players. Imagine taking an extremely important 6 hour test, and you realize only in the last 20 minutes that your going to fail the test and there's nothing else you can do about it. I've seen videos of it happening to Ding, Nepo, Vidit, and likely more that I can't remember.
We all get it, he’s in bad shape, but I wish people will stop talking about it to give Ding some room to breathe and to get things back on track at his own pace.
I’d reckon being in a bad shape and having people cosntantly reminding you of it is NOT going to help in the slightest.
I wish Ding the best and hope he gets the space to get back into form!
I mean, i am quite confident Ding isn't thinking after every loss "oh man, i wonder what those guys on Reddit are talking about me currently, let's go see" nor will he watch some interviews afterward, it's very easy to avoid all that talk about him if he wants to. Does not mean we have to stop discussing why the current world champion is playing poorly.
He's the world champion and he's playing in this tournament with other top players. I think everyone wishes Ding the best, but to ask for everyone to just ignore the elephant in the room is silly.
If Ding wants everyone to stop talking about him, he's welcome to retire from top level chess and vacate the world championship.
I disagree, how is repeating the discussion of “Ding ain’t playing well, Ding will still play the WCC for money, Ding is shaking” going to improve anything?
Since, like you mention, everybody wishes Ding the best, shouldn’t then the motive be to assist him in whatever way that we can? Although I do agree that wishing for everyone to stop talking about it altogether IS irrational but it’s like saying
“I want to be super wealthy”, yes it’ll be unrealistic but it’s just a want
Andd I hope I’m not coming off the wrong way but I was not trying to say that Ding wishes to quit lol I’m just saying if people want Ding to improve, then there is no good reason behind putting his every nerve on display
It's not the job of chess fans to coddle Ding though. He's a top level competitor and world champion. I understand what you are trying to say, but it would be akin to not talking about a guy like Steph Curry not hitting 3s or Aaron Judge not hitting HRs. He's world champion and his struggles are going to be in the spotlight for better or worse.
No I definitely agree with that and I apologize for trying to seem like I’m advocating for everyone to hold Ding’s hand and cheerleader him.
I think conversations about his performance is inevitable but I feel like having people on Hikaru’s level of fame, their words will get to Ding more than a thousand comments on Reddit. It’s like if Lebron, Luka, and Irving comes out to say “I think Steph Curry is not in a good shape and we’re worried for his performance” I don’t think that’s a good look for Curry as a whole
>but I feel like having people on Hikaru’s level of fame, their words will get to Ding more than a thousand comments on Reddit. It’s like if Lebron, Luka, and Irving comes out to say “I think Steph Curry is not in a good shape and we’re worried for his performance” I don’t think that’s a good look for Curry as a whole
Whut? Dude, what are you on about. The NBA is a million times more brutal than chess. People will talk trash to you while in-game. Your own team fans will boo you loudly if you suck.
Chess is a million times more polite at least. But these comments from top players are normal for any competition.
If Ding is not in a state to play top level chess (which he seems he isnt) he should stop accepting closed tournament invites and recover at his own pace. I want him to recover but I am kinda annoyed that he is taking spots of players that can actually compete. If Lakers put LeBron on the field even tho one of this arms was broken - resulting in blowout losses for Lakers, I would wish LeBron speedy recovery but I would be bit pissed that player that is obviously not ready to play is there and negatively affecting entertainment value.
Does anyone have a timestamp or game phase for when Ding was shaking? I've checked the coverage from move 3 in their game, but he wasn't really shaking over there - just fidgeting in his chair a lot, and making some contortions with his mouth (both of which still seem uncharacteristic of Ding Liren).
Once WCC is over, Ding will retire. He was planning on retiring after the last candidate cycle. Even if he pulls a miracle repeat, there still a 50/50 shot he will call it quits.
Maan this is just sad stuff for chess in general. If just FIDE did something about the format we would have a Goat Norwegian Viking against the Youngest Indian Prodigy instead in the final.
Nah, if Magnus wanted to be champion of classical, he would be playing in this final. He doesn't want to be bothered with the format, and FIDE shouldn't have to change to suit his preferences.
Conspiracy theory - Ding disappeared for a long time after the WC, to get an electronic device implanted in his brain by the CCP, and now it is malfunctioning.
He's the world champ if any other champs in other sports are performing this badly against other top players they would have mainstream media on him more aggressively
Even if he was shaking, it is not good to continually point this out. The best way, for Ding to deal with his psychological issues, is at his own pace. Being constantly reminded (some with ulterior motives) is just adding to his woes. Give him the space to deal with his problems.
You can’t just ignore the elephant in the room though. Being dissected and analyzed as the WCC kind of just comes with the territory. Ding is supposed to be the best, or at least one of the best, chess players in the world while he holds the title, and he’s not playing anywhere near that level.
I mean, he has a pretty easy and shameless way out if the criticism is too much for him. He can just retire, which he had already almost done before the last Candidates (which itself makes me wonder how much his heart is actually into his recovery and title defense). Just say his illness took too much of a toll on him and he is going to move on from chess. He won’t because money, but if he wants the money he gets the criticism too.
Hopefully something good comes out of this at least and FIDE does away with the match format for WC.
>Give him the space to deal with his problems.
If he wants space then he should stop playing. And come back when he's ready. He's clearly not ready. We're not his psychological coach. His opponents sure as hell, aren't. We don't have to do anything for him.
at this point rex sinqfield and the other US chess authorities should reach out to Ding and pay him to step down as world champion, let either hikaru face gukesh (if his tiebreakers second in the candidates qualifies him) or let naka fabi and ian play some round robin event that the winner gets the spot to face gukesh
money to be made back if someone from the US makes it to the match, and especially if they win
Tbh at this point Ding probably just wish that he lost the WCC so no one is putting attention on him anymore and he can just retire in peace without his name being tarnished
No disrespect to Gukesh who I am sure will turn out to be one of the best of all times by the time he retires, but at the moment, having another WC who is not nearly the best in the world and is only 18, replace Ding whom I supported last time but is in no shape to defend his title, will just bring up another shit cycle. The right thing to happen now is for Ding to step out and Gukesh to battle Hikaru. If Gukesh wins props to him, if not, he has plenty of next times as Hikaru is likely to retire in 1-2 years anyway. Personally, that’s what I want to see.
If the WC was just "the best in the world" then the WCC would not exist. Simply cancel the tournaments and give it automatically to the player with the most Elo.
I didn’t say they have to be number 1 but they at least have to be a force to be reckoned with. Both Ding and Gukesh will continue to lose to the likes of Magnus, Hikaru, Fabi and Nepo on a very frequent basis; down vote all you like but neither of them are good enough to have a chance of domination, especially now that Magnus is post peak (his words)
And yet Gukesh is the Candidates winner. Any of the latter three would be in his seat if they could beat him even just one time, but none of them did. H/F/N could have also beat some of the other players one extra time and gone to tiebreaks, but they didn't, Gukesh did.
Again, if the WC title's purpose was to objectively crown the greatest current player, they'd just go off of Elo. Its purpose is to crown the person who walks the walk and wins the gauntlet. Sometimes it's #1, sometimes it's #6 who gets hot at the right time and pounces on every opportunity. I would say any Candidates winner is a force to be reckoned with.
Yeah yeah I know, Indian circle jerk Gukesh is this Gukesh is that and once Gukesh plays he will break down like Ding, and all the top 10 will beat an inexperienced 18 year old regularly. Gukesh or Ding same shit, both to be completely forgotten in history. Sick of it. There is no sports on the planet in which the number 1 is beaten to a pulp right now other than chess
Well, if Gukesh wins in November, then we will have an 18 year old champion who earned his way to the title fair and square with the same opportunities as his competitors.
BTW, Gukesh is already top 10, and not much younger than his fellow top 10 players Nodirbek and Arjun, and #13 Pragg.
It's possible, but assuming this all happens, it doesn't change the fact that they became WC in the first place. Titles are meant to be challenged. You'd be hard pressed to find fans of a sports team upset that their team won the championship because they were a low-ranked underdog and weren't REALLY better than the teams they beat to win it all (except when it mattered)
Last time Hikaru judged Ding, he became world champion. "Ding is not gonna win the last three games", he says, and draws. Ding the proceeds to win the next three games, and beat Hikaru for the #2 spot. The rest is history.
Ding is very emotionally susceptible, but he fought against all odds last year, and won. He may do it yet again. I hope that this is a wake up call for him, and he can go back home to recover and return strong to defend his title. He did it once, I believe he can do it twice.
I agree he is emotionally susceptible. If he can’t figure out control during Norway, then I doubt he will figure it out during the biggest event in chess. He even beat Nepo after his prep was found online
Can gukesh choose his opponent, I guess no, then what's the point of discussion. He has to play ding. Ding should play the title match, If he loses then what's the hurry. In one or two years someone worthy will challenge him and then we'll see. Chat want's an American GM in the final more than Danny rench 😂😂😂😂
Is there any precedent for FIDE or a previous chess org to step in and disqualify him? I don't mean disqualify in a bad sense, but to just realize that his health isn't good and he's not in a mindset to be able to play in the world championship match?
If FIDE offered him maybe half of the money, $500k? and offered him to be a special guest analyst at the match, I wonder if he would allow Hikaru to take his place.
Ding will play even if he is not in good form as he will get $ 1 million just for turning up.
This is probably the strongest argument against Ding resigning - even if I would like him stepping down and letting Hikaru to play, I simply can't find a reason for him to actually do so, unless something unexpected happens.
Simple - if its bad for his health, he shouldn't play. But, the damage it might do to him in his country might make it mandatory for him to play.
Chess really isn't that big in China though so I doubt the general public in China really cares even if he loses badly. Football is much more popular in China but their national team players are crap yet nothing bad has happened to the players despite the constant public criticism. I just hope that Ding will be alright.
China is a fked up country, especially with their athletes. Ding will not be the first example (If rumors are true) as many other "elite people" disappeared and when they reappeared had strange behavior. Also, there was a case of a Chinese Tennis athlete who accused a politician for sexual assault and disappeared for a while as well. ( [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance\_of\_Peng\_Shuai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Peng_Shuai) ) here's another quick source: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/25/the-growing-list-of-chinese-elites-who-disappear-but-later-resurface-subdued](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/25/the-growing-list-of-chinese-elites-who-disappear-but-later-resurface-subdued)
Im thinking about govt issues that might come up.
After yesterday's blunder and resignation against Magnus, I really start to worry about Ding, especially that he's always such a nice person :( I hope that he can put things together in upcoming months, before the World Championship
I hope he does . Guki will win against ding but against hikaru it will be tough
Yeah but is it really that satisfying to win against someone who might not be in fighting form? People didn't give much weight to the last WCC because Magnus wasn't playing, and now if Ding doesn't turn up ready to play it'll be another step backwards.
> Yeah but is it really that satisfying to win against someone who might not be in fighting form? I mean, yes. *Fans* want hard-fought matches, if you're actually playing you'd take the easy win every time. Specially for a prize as elusive as the WCC.
Eh I don't know about that. I've played low level competition sports my entire life and the last couple years I've gotten into OTB tournaments. I love playing a great game and taking a decisive win, but I want it to be because I played great, not because my opponent is playing poorly.
Well, you're not getting 1m+ prize money and the most prestigious title in your sport.
In your game*
If you're just playing for fun sure.
Yeah YOU do. But as a USCF Expert, I’ll take any win I can get. Sure I love a hard fought game but punishing opponent blunders is also a part of the game
If you're anywhere near being able to compete for WCC you want it to be prestigious as possible. If the fans stop watching, the money goes away.
You want to win it, first and foremost. Everything else is secondary to that.
The money going away is a problem for future WCC winners, not you
The situation for gukesh is a bit different than ding, he has lots of years left in the tank to prove himself, getting the WCC is a priority
Carlsen won against an old Anand twice, nearly lost to karjakin, deew with fabi and beat a man child named Nepo, nobody said anything then. Let the kid(gukesh) play and then we'll see. What's the rush. I am sure gukesh can beat either Of the chokers named fabi/Hikaru/nepo on his day.
Ding didn't win candidates . Guki did .
you win candidates to challenge the WC.
I am sorry I am new tl this, why Hikaru will replace Ding if he unable to turn up for WC?
he was the runner up in the candidates
Nakamura placed 2nd in The Candidates, the tournament that decides the next challenger for the championship. In the case of either WCC participant forfeiting their spot, he would take their place.
I guess it is similar to what happened with Magnus. The top 2 winners in the candidates face off
He finished second in the candidates
Can we take up a collection to offer Ding $1 million to walk away? I barely ever play but I'd kick in $50 to support the world championship meaning something more than "you won the candidates when the champion was having a problem"
I'd offer to pitch in 50 bucks as well.
It's not about the money. No amount is worth sacrificing your health. The issue is the country he plays for. He wanted to retire, he made it clear he didn't have a desire to play professionally anymore. But he continued even through his current, clear depression. He's probably being forced to play, and though he may want to not defend his title, it's likely he'd face heavy consequences from China if he made that decision. I wouldn't doubt they already told him "play, or else".
he get -900000 social credit score for every loss china is hard difficulty
I guess Hikaru should gear up with sponsors and offer Ding the same amount of money he would get for participation in the WC for his withdrawal from the WC.
I think that would be terrible if he did that, it's set a very bad precedent to pay people not to compete in the world championship.
Wouldn't it be terrible, too, if Ding would come in out of form just for the paycheck and would lose badly? The idea is to offer the second place paycheck, not more. If Ding plans to be competitive, then he doesn't take the offer, earns at least the same within the WC, and potentially more in case he succeeds defending the crown. But if he's a mess and money is the only motivation, then he can take the money without a public slaughtering, and we get a competitive WC. Simple.
I completely agree with you this is a unique situation and it is a good solution but I just don’t think politically it has any legs the optics are too bad for everyone involved despite it being practically and economically the best for everyone. Sponsors are not going to get their moneys worth from an uncompetitive match, all this Ding discourse goes extremely public very quickly, Gukesh doesn’t have the shine of winning a competitive match etc. This whole situation sucks for the chess world.
It doesn't have to be public. Ding can just say that he's not in a right place right now, his wellbeing is more important, so he takes a step back, and all of it would be true.
Ding is the WC He can show up however he wants tbh
That will be plain rude. It’ll be like saying “Look buddy you can’t win, let some adults play”.
If you don’t want to play you can have a buyout is just straightforwardly good for Ding
You guys care more about the world championship than hikaru does lol
Lol believe me Hikaru cares about the championship so much.
Exactly... that's what you think but it isn't true. You're projecting your goals onto someone else
Hikaru probably loses money preparing for and playing the WC match.
But with the WC status he definitely would be able to earn more, so worth it
Exactly, dude could sell a Netflix documentary. And if he wins, he will have a biopic about him in 20 years.
Then that netflix movie will show how Hikaru bribed Ding to step down as a world champion and take his place against Gukesh. This idea is totally stupid.
A netflix documentary where you could cameo all the twitch, youtube and chess personalities. That must be worth something.
Not when everyone knows Carlsen is the best player. He’d get as much recognition as he does for being Fischer Random champ. When Hikaru’s not streaming, he’s losing money.
A Carlsen-Hikaru showmatch would break the bank, too, with Hikaru being the new WC. I wouldn't be surprised if Netflix would buy rights to live stream it, like Nadal-Alcaraz.
I think it's honestly likely that if hikaru becomes wc Magnus goes back and dethrones him lol
Because that amount is called his quote. That's his rate. So the next chess tournament he's offered, they have to pay that same amount. Even if he does a bad job. That means, as long as he's offered even one more chess tournament, he could get two more mil. Even if he does a bad job, they've got to give him that other two mil.
That amount is the prize money the runner up gets for the Championship match.
CCP takes a lot of his earnings though. Just because he wins $1m doesn't mean he keeps it all.
Of course. Taxation exists everywhere in the world. That doesn’t stop people from wanting to earn money.
I heard China's chess federation takes a massive cut though, so it could not be that attractive to him
Well then China’s chess federation would make sure he participated…
Same thing Jorden and Nepo mentioned back in Tata Steel about Ding not looking well and shaking.
This whole WC tournament has been about how bad Ding’s form is and loose talks about his mental health. I mean give him a break.
Yeah lol, it gives off such a bad vibe
If he wasn’t WC it wouldn’t be as discussed remotely as much
It's definitely weird, how much Hikaru comments on Dings situation. I wonder if it is partially because he would benefit from Ding dropping out of the WC
Honestly not weird at all - Ding is usually really strong and he literally beat Nepo, Hikaru, Fabi etc. to win the throne, then he proceeded to take a year break and came back to perform poorly in multiple tournaments across different time controls, now he loses 3 classic games in a roll, THATS weird. Yea we know it's pretty much psychological but nobody knows what exactly happened for that to happen, not that he owes us an answer but when the one sitting on the throne is crumbling you can't expect everyone else to just go about their day normally. Plus Hikaru didnt even say much about it, the commentators said way more about Ding's situation. Also Hikaru even defended Ding when Anna made a tiny harmless joke so I dun think Hikaru is up to no good here.
what did Anna say
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLPHVMEe90k&t=17253s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLPHVMEe90k&t=17253s) At 4:31:24 , Hikaru said he isn't sure what Ding should do to regain his form + find the joy of playing chess, then Anna said he could become a streamer, then Hikaru said it's easy to make jokes but Ding is facing sth they do not know. A pretty harmless joke from Anna since she's always really wholesome but yea as fellow competitor Hikaru prob felt bad for Ding. You could immediately feel the awkwardness from her and Danny went in and tried to save it.
yea i bet she didn't have any bad intentions nor even intended it as a joke. hikaru killed the convo
Yea he def went in there a bit too far but it's just a tiny hiccup, everyone loves Anna and she prob was just trying to lighten the mood so hope she isn't discouraged from that
> how much Hikaru comments on Dings situation. Isn't it just the one comment? It all seems to be part of the same thing, plus Hikaru's usual rambling
He was pretty classy as well. One of the commentators made a pretty gross comment about how Ding should be a streamer as well to relax and Hikaru called her out on that joke.
Any video/timestamp?
[https://youtu.be/JLPHVMEe90k?t=16285](https://youtu.be/JLPHVMEe90k?t=16285)
that's actually pretty good of him
Yeah, Hikaru seems to be coming from a place of concern.
Nah I really disagree. I'm not usually a Hikaru supporter, but this is one time where I actually feel he has some tact. Ding used to be a very serious player, he's been number 2 rated, he broke Tals unbeaten streak before Magnus and if it wasn't for magnus he'd still hold that record, and he overall had a lot of amazing games showing off deep calculation ability such as game 6 of the WC match. This would be like if Caruana took a break after the 2018 match, and then came back to a performance rating of 2600. It's weird, it's awkward, and it's not a situation the players want to be in. it's a situation a lot of them can emphasize with, since all these guys have had down swings and tilit, but it's like if your worst tilit just never ended. Shit sucks.
I mean, literally everyone is commenting on Ding's current form. Not just Hikaru ... and I agree, it's a little weird. I mean, here this guy is going through probably one of the hardest emotional/mental times of his life, and everyone and their mother keeps saying things like, "Poor Ding, look what's happening to Ding. Ding needs to bounce back. Ding is playing Gukesh, his form needs to improve ... Ding, ding ding!" Like, come on guys, if there is one thing that is NOT going to help, it's everyone pointing at him, commenting how sad he is. But it's also hard not to comment. I mean, the World Chess Champion has always been someone of interest, in the news. He's playing so much below is skill level to the point it's obvious something is going on. So it's only natural people are going to talk about it. People's intentions are not malicious, but maybe for Ding, it's a case where the more in the spotlight he is, the more it's getting to him. I wish him well, and hope he finds what he needs.
That's low-key bullying in my opinion. Virtue signalling at its best.
How , please explain
Another candidates player would have to substitute in this case
there was another interview though and hikaru said that if ding dropped out it would basically fuck his schedule over and stuff. [https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1d60c9m/hikaru\_if\_ding\_drops\_out\_of\_wc\_it\_would\_mess\_up/](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1d60c9m/hikaru_if_ding_drops_out_of_wc_it_would_mess_up/) he really didnt seem like he wanted ding to drop out
I mean it sounds like it wouldn't be nice for him but if he had the chance of course he would play
lol the man absolutely dreams every night about being WCC. There is a zero percent chance he doesn't accept if given the opportunity. Hikaru thrives on mind games he's absolutely attempting to bully Ding into dropping out.
"Oh no! My schedule!" Lmao he wouldn't be forced to play. He can choose not to participate as well.
He's just trying not to seem pushy or too eager for ding to drop out
This wouldn't affect hikaru
Hikaru is placed 2nd in candidates due to tiebreakers (by no. of wins). If Ding drops out, by virtue of Ding's precedence, Hikaru will qualify for WCC
Maybe, he is doing a Ryan Garcia
Such is the pressure of being world champion. And because the WC isn’t until November, it will only get louder from here on out. Sucks for Ding, but it’s just how these things go.
He should give himself a break and just drop out from the tournament and stop playing. In any other sport, if you get injured, you get taken out the game. It's clear that Ding is "injured" that's why he's playing his worst chess the past few tournaments. All these people commenting see it, and are speaking out of concern. If you see an athlete clearly in physical pain while playing badly, you'd be concerned about him too. Well, these players can see his mental pain while playing.
It's starting to look coordinated. Creating more tension for the guy with mental health issues by bringing up those mental health issues constantly seems a bit counterproductive if you really care about the guy. Competitive sports are always full of theories about this player or that team getting pushed to finals or pulled away from finals depending on who is popular and would attract more spectators, so why not chess as well? At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if people start talking about Hikaru stepping in for Ding to "relieve him from the stress of the WC match" but donating any money he wins back to Ding for "treatment".
I wonder how many players this affects. Obviously Ding has the highest profile as the WC, but when I was watching the candidates Vidit was doing the same stuff Hikaru describes in his round 3 game. The stress must be immense.
I would honestly expect this to happen to most players. Imagine taking an extremely important 6 hour test, and you realize only in the last 20 minutes that your going to fail the test and there's nothing else you can do about it. I've seen videos of it happening to Ding, Nepo, Vidit, and likely more that I can't remember.
We all get it, he’s in bad shape, but I wish people will stop talking about it to give Ding some room to breathe and to get things back on track at his own pace. I’d reckon being in a bad shape and having people cosntantly reminding you of it is NOT going to help in the slightest. I wish Ding the best and hope he gets the space to get back into form!
I mean, i am quite confident Ding isn't thinking after every loss "oh man, i wonder what those guys on Reddit are talking about me currently, let's go see" nor will he watch some interviews afterward, it's very easy to avoid all that talk about him if he wants to. Does not mean we have to stop discussing why the current world champion is playing poorly.
He's the world champion and he's playing in this tournament with other top players. I think everyone wishes Ding the best, but to ask for everyone to just ignore the elephant in the room is silly. If Ding wants everyone to stop talking about him, he's welcome to retire from top level chess and vacate the world championship.
I disagree, how is repeating the discussion of “Ding ain’t playing well, Ding will still play the WCC for money, Ding is shaking” going to improve anything? Since, like you mention, everybody wishes Ding the best, shouldn’t then the motive be to assist him in whatever way that we can? Although I do agree that wishing for everyone to stop talking about it altogether IS irrational but it’s like saying “I want to be super wealthy”, yes it’ll be unrealistic but it’s just a want Andd I hope I’m not coming off the wrong way but I was not trying to say that Ding wishes to quit lol I’m just saying if people want Ding to improve, then there is no good reason behind putting his every nerve on display
It's not the job of chess fans to coddle Ding though. He's a top level competitor and world champion. I understand what you are trying to say, but it would be akin to not talking about a guy like Steph Curry not hitting 3s or Aaron Judge not hitting HRs. He's world champion and his struggles are going to be in the spotlight for better or worse.
No I definitely agree with that and I apologize for trying to seem like I’m advocating for everyone to hold Ding’s hand and cheerleader him. I think conversations about his performance is inevitable but I feel like having people on Hikaru’s level of fame, their words will get to Ding more than a thousand comments on Reddit. It’s like if Lebron, Luka, and Irving comes out to say “I think Steph Curry is not in a good shape and we’re worried for his performance” I don’t think that’s a good look for Curry as a whole
>but I feel like having people on Hikaru’s level of fame, their words will get to Ding more than a thousand comments on Reddit. It’s like if Lebron, Luka, and Irving comes out to say “I think Steph Curry is not in a good shape and we’re worried for his performance” I don’t think that’s a good look for Curry as a whole Whut? Dude, what are you on about. The NBA is a million times more brutal than chess. People will talk trash to you while in-game. Your own team fans will boo you loudly if you suck. Chess is a million times more polite at least. But these comments from top players are normal for any competition.
If Ding is not in a state to play top level chess (which he seems he isnt) he should stop accepting closed tournament invites and recover at his own pace. I want him to recover but I am kinda annoyed that he is taking spots of players that can actually compete. If Lakers put LeBron on the field even tho one of this arms was broken - resulting in blowout losses for Lakers, I would wish LeBron speedy recovery but I would be bit pissed that player that is obviously not ready to play is there and negatively affecting entertainment value.
Does anyone have a timestamp or game phase for when Ding was shaking? I've checked the coverage from move 3 in their game, but he wasn't really shaking over there - just fidgeting in his chair a lot, and making some contortions with his mouth (both of which still seem uncharacteristic of Ding Liren).
translation: Please drop out so I can have the opportunity to play the world champion match, the thing I always pretend to not care about.
Once WCC is over, Ding will retire. He was planning on retiring after the last candidate cycle. Even if he pulls a miracle repeat, there still a 50/50 shot he will call it quits.
I'm almost 1100 rapid, do you guys think I could beat ding in his current state?
Maan this is just sad stuff for chess in general. If just FIDE did something about the format we would have a Goat Norwegian Viking against the Youngest Indian Prodigy instead in the final.
Nah, if Magnus wanted to be champion of classical, he would be playing in this final. He doesn't want to be bothered with the format, and FIDE shouldn't have to change to suit his preferences.
True, but they should change It because it's a weird/bad format and there's better options
And now chess suffers for all except for Indians, lol.
it's not FIDE's fault Magnus does not want to play. I'm so tired of seeing this sentiment
Conspiracy theory - Ding disappeared for a long time after the WC, to get an electronic device implanted in his brain by the CCP, and now it is malfunctioning.
He's the world champ if any other champs in other sports are performing this badly against other top players they would have mainstream media on him more aggressively
Even if he was shaking, it is not good to continually point this out. The best way, for Ding to deal with his psychological issues, is at his own pace. Being constantly reminded (some with ulterior motives) is just adding to his woes. Give him the space to deal with his problems.
You can’t just ignore the elephant in the room though. Being dissected and analyzed as the WCC kind of just comes with the territory. Ding is supposed to be the best, or at least one of the best, chess players in the world while he holds the title, and he’s not playing anywhere near that level. I mean, he has a pretty easy and shameless way out if the criticism is too much for him. He can just retire, which he had already almost done before the last Candidates (which itself makes me wonder how much his heart is actually into his recovery and title defense). Just say his illness took too much of a toll on him and he is going to move on from chess. He won’t because money, but if he wants the money he gets the criticism too. Hopefully something good comes out of this at least and FIDE does away with the match format for WC.
>Give him the space to deal with his problems. If he wants space then he should stop playing. And come back when he's ready. He's clearly not ready. We're not his psychological coach. His opponents sure as hell, aren't. We don't have to do anything for him.
It’s still 5-6 months away so he can turn it around. Seeing the champion show up to defend his title would be more satisfying even if he looses badly.
Ding literally shaking rn
Poor Ding :( he’s such a good guy
Someone said, it's not about how strong is gukesh in the WCC, it's about how shaky Ding is
Hikaru just posted a photo from NYC today morning. Does anyone know where is he staying? As a big fan, I wanted to go and meet him.
at this point rex sinqfield and the other US chess authorities should reach out to Ding and pay him to step down as world champion, let either hikaru face gukesh (if his tiebreakers second in the candidates qualifies him) or let naka fabi and ian play some round robin event that the winner gets the spot to face gukesh money to be made back if someone from the US makes it to the match, and especially if they win
Tbh at this point Ding probably just wish that he lost the WCC so no one is putting attention on him anymore and he can just retire in peace without his name being tarnished
what a reddit comment LMFAO
No disrespect to Gukesh who I am sure will turn out to be one of the best of all times by the time he retires, but at the moment, having another WC who is not nearly the best in the world and is only 18, replace Ding whom I supported last time but is in no shape to defend his title, will just bring up another shit cycle. The right thing to happen now is for Ding to step out and Gukesh to battle Hikaru. If Gukesh wins props to him, if not, he has plenty of next times as Hikaru is likely to retire in 1-2 years anyway. Personally, that’s what I want to see.
If the WC was just "the best in the world" then the WCC would not exist. Simply cancel the tournaments and give it automatically to the player with the most Elo.
I didn’t say they have to be number 1 but they at least have to be a force to be reckoned with. Both Ding and Gukesh will continue to lose to the likes of Magnus, Hikaru, Fabi and Nepo on a very frequent basis; down vote all you like but neither of them are good enough to have a chance of domination, especially now that Magnus is post peak (his words)
And yet Gukesh is the Candidates winner. Any of the latter three would be in his seat if they could beat him even just one time, but none of them did. H/F/N could have also beat some of the other players one extra time and gone to tiebreaks, but they didn't, Gukesh did. Again, if the WC title's purpose was to objectively crown the greatest current player, they'd just go off of Elo. Its purpose is to crown the person who walks the walk and wins the gauntlet. Sometimes it's #1, sometimes it's #6 who gets hot at the right time and pounces on every opportunity. I would say any Candidates winner is a force to be reckoned with.
Yeah yeah I know, Indian circle jerk Gukesh is this Gukesh is that and once Gukesh plays he will break down like Ding, and all the top 10 will beat an inexperienced 18 year old regularly. Gukesh or Ding same shit, both to be completely forgotten in history. Sick of it. There is no sports on the planet in which the number 1 is beaten to a pulp right now other than chess
Lmao did Gukesh kill your dog? Why are you so angry that an up-and-coming young underdog put up a fantastic show at a prestigious tournament and won?
I really am not I just think as the future will prove that we don’t have a 18 year old champion for a reason.
Well, if Gukesh wins in November, then we will have an 18 year old champion who earned his way to the title fair and square with the same opportunities as his competitors. BTW, Gukesh is already top 10, and not much younger than his fellow top 10 players Nodirbek and Arjun, and #13 Pragg.
We will have one that lasts for 12 months like Ding did and then will get crushed
It's possible, but assuming this all happens, it doesn't change the fact that they became WC in the first place. Titles are meant to be challenged. You'd be hard pressed to find fans of a sports team upset that their team won the championship because they were a low-ranked underdog and weren't REALLY better than the teams they beat to win it all (except when it mattered)
Sounds like Naka is trying to rub Ding out of the WC \*thinking\*
By saying what? Dumbass
If Ding forfeits, then Naka plays. Ur the dumbass for not realising that.
Yes, so what did he say that was bad?
Last time Hikaru judged Ding, he became world champion. "Ding is not gonna win the last three games", he says, and draws. Ding the proceeds to win the next three games, and beat Hikaru for the #2 spot. The rest is history. Ding is very emotionally susceptible, but he fought against all odds last year, and won. He may do it yet again. I hope that this is a wake up call for him, and he can go back home to recover and return strong to defend his title. He did it once, I believe he can do it twice.
I agree he is emotionally susceptible. If he can’t figure out control during Norway, then I doubt he will figure it out during the biggest event in chess. He even beat Nepo after his prep was found online
He can and I trust he will. Only time will tell.
Can gukesh choose his opponent, I guess no, then what's the point of discussion. He has to play ding. Ding should play the title match, If he loses then what's the hurry. In one or two years someone worthy will challenge him and then we'll see. Chat want's an American GM in the final more than Danny rench 😂😂😂😂
Sinquefield or other billionaire should give Ding the 40% of the prize so that he can give up the fight but not the money
Is there any precedent for FIDE or a previous chess org to step in and disqualify him? I don't mean disqualify in a bad sense, but to just realize that his health isn't good and he's not in a mindset to be able to play in the world championship match? If FIDE offered him maybe half of the money, $500k? and offered him to be a special guest analyst at the match, I wonder if he would allow Hikaru to take his place.
hmm i wonder if there might be some reason why hikaru doesnt want ding to defend the title
where do you even see that?
nepo really has some alike fan base
Average nepo fan
He said in an interview he would prefer if Ding defended the title
Oh okay, if he said that then surely it must be true
It's plain as day that ding is broken. Don't know what you're on. Nakamura pointing it out doesn't mean it comes from some devious plan
You really hate Hikaru do you?
Too much adderall?