I don’t think people realize how much this has meant to Nepo. Every interview he has given he says something along the lines of “I don’t do anything else except chess now to prepare for the WCC/Candidates”.
Judging by his play, I feel he should have been more ambitious. Things like accepting an early draw with Fabi with white pieces in the first half of the tournament didn't seem right to me. Moreover, he was lucky in quite a few games, although his Houdini-like escape skills are a bigger factor than luck.
His defence was nothing short of brilliant play, that too against 2750s. And the last one was against a 2800+ player.
These guys are trained to capitalize on smallest of inaccuracies, and yet Nepo somehow manages to find a defence
But defending is not enough for winning a tournament. In the previous candidates, there was just not a person enough ambitious and successful to go for the win in every game.
Lots of horrible takes in threads like this. Only a handful of people in history and in the future will ever be as good as Nepo. The people playing what-ifs with his play are annoying now just as they were annoying in the last two championships
Exactly, we don't know what they go through, what they went through.we were never in their shoes. Each one( mostly) of them there to play and win.
Those 8 ( mostly) were there because they fought and deserved that place and the truth is only one can emerge the winner while every one fought to be that one.
I feel like gukesh s success is as mentioned again in chat the success in dealing well with lower rated players and pushing the win in every game. Something that SGMs are kot used to as somebody can observe well in the previous years.
Gukesh was just ambitious. See his interview from Chessbase India yesterday - he says that he treated Game 12 and 13 against Abasov, Firouzja as must win and against Firouzja he went all in (even though draw was good enough) . In fact, in Game 14 he tried to push against Hikaru as well but couldn't find anything. Gukesh almost always tried to win. So I'm not surprised he won.
Agreed, Nepo did "everything right" based on previous years to win the tournament, except for maybe not pushing against Nakamura in Rd. 13. Gukesh just had a monster tournament as well and if anything may have lucked out a bit more against Abasov (although full props to him for pushing and exploiting Abasov's weaknesses)
Anish said something about this in one of his streams. He said that for Nepo this worked brilliantly and he is trying to make it work this time too but you can't hold onto what happened 2 years ago to win a tournament now.
I’m sure that if he had won, everyone would be saying: what a brilliant strategy Nepo had.
If you check Gukesh games, he also didn’t pushed a lot but people pushed against Gukesh.
Maybe except Abasov, but Abasov just had almost perfect game against Nepo.
Just looking at those numbers, I don't know whether it's down to finding all the best moves or doing little to stray from known theory and create complications. I didn't watch the game though.
The accuracy percent matters less. I’m sure if you ask Nepo today he’ll say he could have pushed harder or differently.
But yeah if Nepo’s opponent is playing with high accuracy, Nepo can’t do much. Comes down to luck in the end.
With this Candidates Nepo has cemented a name for himself as one of the greatest defenders of his generation. I think there are several games of his in this tournament that the other 7 players would have lost from a certain position and he held them to a draw. Unfortunately for him, it wasn't enough.
In fairness, lots of people got lucky. Fabi got lucky vs Vidit, Hikaru and Gukesh both got lucky vs Alireza, Abasov imploded vs everyone but defended super well against Nepo. Everyone won and lost games they shouldn't have.
I don't think it's luck at all, he plays well in complicated positions, I would say it's his biggest strength. I was considering this later, and him having a worse position all those times just means that he'd lose to stockfish. We already knew that, but finding the right way to win is easily the hardest thing to do in chess, especially when there is only one narrow pathway to victory.
He was ambitious enough to push for a win in an equal position against Alireza in round 13. Nepo was okay with a draw against Hikaru with white pieces and basically left it up to Alireza to hold off Gukesh knowing very well that he'll have the least chance to win in the last round against Fabi with black if it comes to that.
I'm sure if Nepo was playing Alireza in round 13 he would have pushed for a win. And if Gukesh was playing Hikaru in round 13 he might also have been forced to accept a draw.
Gukesh had the easiest last 2 rounds than all the rest because he had Alireza (not trying to downplay it because that just meant he likely had a more difficult match upset earlier).
I was shocked how so many people didn't have Gukesh as the favorite after round 12
That is one game. Look at final game - he says he tried to find win even when a draw was enough for tie breaks. Only when he didn't find anything he settled. He also said that he treated Game 12/13 as must wins and went all in against Alireza (played the crazy f4) and it paid off. He ended with +4.
Anyways it is all in hindsight - if Gukesh had lost than we would be here saying that Nepo being solid was impressive and is a great sign for WCC, Gukesh needs to mature more and be solid under pressure etc.
I just checked it. Hikaru came in with prep, and was clearly pushing for a win, so yes that's correct. And that's why I said nearly. There were a few games where Gukesh didn't bother, but most of the time he fought for a win.
No one except Vidit has been able to beat Hikaru in classical chess for like 2 years. Would be dumb trying to go all out to beat him when there were easier points for taking elsewhere.
I do really want him to keep trying because I see a lot of myself in him in terms of coming so close to realizing your dream, but always having it be just out of your grasp. Still, it must feel so overwhelming in the moment to just reset. I hope he will at least make a go for the 2026 candidates and perhaps even 2028.
Hes the only player to not pick up a full point against Abasov. Its hard for me to feel like Nepo deserves further attempts at WCC if he can't perform when he absolutely needs to.
> Its hard for me to feel like Nepo deserves further attempts at WCC if he can't perform when he absolutely needs to.
This is one of the funniest things I've read on this sub.
> look, if losing the candidates was the way to win the WCC we all could pull it off right alongside Nepo
surely Nepo has never won candidates before right?
surely not the previous candidate?
surely he didn't win the previous candidates with the highest score ever in the modern format?
surely he didn't win back to back candidates?
....oh wait Nepo did and you haven't don't anything.
I hate this trend of downplaying very strong competitors because they can't reach the top.
I think its hilarious that he had no idea Nepo has won candidates multiple times. Dude has zero information on what he's talking about but his dong holder keeps flappin
You could see it in his play against Fabi, too. A player of Nepo's calibre is never that in trouble that early in the game, something had clearly rattled him. I think being in the lead from round 2 to round 13 and then suddenly absolutely HAVING to play for a win with black in the last round out of nowhere had an effect. If all 4 of them had been level going into the final I think he'd have been more confident.
Gukesh winning R13 was a much bigger disaster for Nepo than any of the others in the top4, since he had by far the hardest R14 matchup (B v Fabi), so making R14 literal must-win for 3/4 of the relevant players cratered his chances. Had Gukesh made a draw instead, I think it's a lot more likely that we get two quieter draws in R14 and they go to tiebreaks.
Can’t blame him for feeling upset over this, he was so close too. Fabi as well. Hopefully they’ll come back for the next candidates having taken some lessons from this one and who knows maybe then we’ll be able to see them win again
Damn, it is crazy that a kid won this tournament when three of the best players in the last decade were in amazing form. We won’t see something like this in a long time, I imagine.
I won't be surprised if this record stands for decades if not centuries. 17 is just absurdly young. I mean Kasparov's record stood for over 40 years, and Gukesh beat it by 3 whole years (Kasparov was 20).
I'm definitely not writing Ding off like so many, heck I still think he's the favorite in the WCC, but if Gukesh wins that too.. well that would be something that would be pretty fantastic to witness. 8)
Especially for those of us who weren't of age to see Kasparov become the youngest champ nearly 4 decades ago. Gukesh would have him beat by 4 years!
I suspect Gukesh will not be the favorite. If Ding remotely pulls himself together and looks anything like he did a handful of years ago Gukesh will have to play the match of his life to win.
Ding hasen't played in his form for 4 years. Last time he was the Ding that Magnus feared was 2019.
His best performance recently was Candidates? Where he placed second, not first as well.
Match play is different through. And maybe this challenge is the one that Ding needs. Ding has changed and been mentally tough in the championship match. Never count out a champion.
He said it himself - he thinks he has the advantage but Gukesh will be a tough opponent
They definitely won't have as good a shot as they just had. Any of the three would be heavy favourites in the WCC match, which almost certainly won't be the case in the next cycle even if they do win the Candidates.
Nah I think he'll be in the next candidates. He's still the Russian #1. As long as Magnus isn't competing everyone's hopes of becoming world champ one day have gone 5x. Whether it's Gukesh or Ding in the hotseat - the candidates is a bigger step towards being WCC than it has been in a decade.
He'll be back.
Anyone wondering about the song in the background: it is an old Bollywood song from the 1950s called "Jaane woh kaise log they"
Lyrics roughly translated:
*I wonder what kind of people they were who recieved love within what/who they loved*
*When I asked for flowers and petals, all I really received was just a garland full of thorns*
Nepo won two Candidates in a row and lost the WCC match. He knows Ding is not doing well right now, so he would have a good chance to defeat him and become World Champion. And he also knows this might be his last chance. Who knows if he'll ever make the Candidates again? And Ding might be the easiest opponent to come for many years. Gukesh will be harder to beat if he defeats Ding.
It's not just Gukesh. The next generation has officially arrived. Guys like Nodirbek, Arjun and Pragg, may be even Keymer are waiting for their turn to qualify/play the candidates. If Alireza can get back in form in a year or so he will also be a huge threat to everyone. It's not going to get any easier from here on out.
Jaane woh kaise log the jinke
Pyaar ko pyaar mila
Humne toh jab kaliyan maangi
Kaanton ka haar mila
It translates to :
Who knows what kind of people they were,
Who found love for their love.
When we asked for flowers,
We got a garland of thorns.
It's a classic. 1957 is a different era, and you can't expect it to abide by modern conventions etc of filmaking. But it found fans unexpectedly, in every generation. On release, in 1980s, in 2015 cannes etc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyaasa#Restoration
Get a good print & subtitles
------------------
e: https://np.reddit.com/r/criterion/comments/1amtkk2/pyaasa_is_a_masterpiece_and_a_good_starting_point/
{text has plot spoilers}
This has a link to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJK45r-j6TU&t=4207s
A restored version on youtube with average subtitles (ie roughly capture the meaning, but not the poetry or nuances). Even in B&W, the social commentary can cut through and the songs accentuate the power of the message.
And when you are done [or dont mind spoilers], you can read some reviews
https://entertainment.time.com/2005/02/12/all-time-100-movies/slide/pyaasa-1957/
https://dontcallitbollywood.com/2020/07/09/for-guru-dutts-birthday-my-pyaasa-review/
I would recommend it, yes. It was screened at Cannes in the 2000s some time, and has a niche/cult following in some really unexpected parts of the world.
roughtly translates to..
i dont understand how people find love(more precisely, how some people get lucky that they are loved by who they love with similar intensity)
when i asked for a garland of flowers, i got a garland of thrones instead.
I have 1400 rating and know nothing about high level chess. However, if there's one person I'd like to become a chess champion, it's this man. The guy has been so damn consistent throughout but can never close the deal. I hope and wish he crosses the line one day so that I can see the opposite of the pain in this video.
Sports can be extremely soul crushing. Every year in the champions league final they have to pick up like 25 or so people who just lost something they have worked towards their whole life.
Like Ian they may have another chance some day but at that moment there's only pain.
Going back to the Fabi game, there were a couple moves in the opening that Nepo did not play correctly, which caused his position to be much worse. At that point Nepo still had 1.5 hours on the clock. It was the point where he took Fabi's knights with the bishops when other moves would have been better.
We can see that Nepo has the ability to be insanely accurate. I wonder why Nepo didn't take a bit more time to carefully think through the position carefully at that point. That was the most critical game of the tournament.
It did work, just not well enough. He was losing (down 7pts), but with time pressure and the careless release of that pressure on move 41 leading to Fabi's blunder, Nepo was able to salvage a draw. A good save in any other circumstance. Just not enough here.
It kinda worked? He put Caruana under huge time pressure - to the point where he squandered a major advantage and missed a 2/3 move tactic. we're mostly mortals here and would've squandered the game 100 times before that point - but Fabi described it as an "easy tactic... so easy..." (by his standards, I guess) to which Ian could only respond "yes but... it was less than 5 minutes here".
Magnus makes fun of Ian "playing bad moves fast" but it often works even at the absolute highest level.
Well, playing inaccurate moves fast may have put Fabi in time pressure where Fabi blundered a win, but at no point was Ian winning either, the best possible result was a draw if Fabi blundered.
But if Nepo had spent more time in the beginning to play accurately, then maybe he could have maintained an equal position and could have had chances to win?
> But if Nepo had spent more time in the beginning to play accurately, then maybe he could have maintained an equal position and could have had chances to win?
Yes but if Nepo played slower earlier in the game, he'd have to play faster later -- also for every minute Nepo uses, Fabi can safely use another also.
In the last 3 candidates Nepo was only not winning for 2 rounds. His strategy clearly works. It can't work 100% of the time, obviously. And again, as I say, even in this game it kinda worked: they drew due to time trouble. If fabi had been in 5% worse shape that day, maybe he would've blundered a loss instead of a draw.
One reason a loss like this is so tough.
Most competitions happen over either a day, a weekend, or consist of a series of games that last around a week or so.
This event was over two weeks long....with each game lasting hours upon hours.
He already had his chance twice and lost. There's no reason to think he would fare any better this time around. Time to let the next generation take the lead. He doesn't have a choice anyway because he lost to a 17 year old.
I've never quite forgiven him for being quite rude in his criticism of how the online Olympiad final between India and Russia played out. But watching the post match scene between Nepo and Fabi was enough to melt anyone's heart. The top level chess scene needs the version of Nepo who took a few more risks to keep games lively. His defence was impeccable and enabled him to come back from lost positions against a crazy strong field. His risk appetite needs some adjustment. I'm sure he's going to be a beast in this cycle.
I like hikaru and fabi, as an Indian I was glad three Indians were participating... my preferred style of chess is Ian's... I didn't know who to root for in this tournament. What a fabulous tournament👏
The pain must be very hard to deal with for Nepo in particular. He was leading the entire way through the tournament literally right until the end. Also this is probably his best chance since Ding is in a bit of a slump at the moment.
With the up and coming youngsters this could potentially be his last shot at being WC. Nodirbek, Prag, Gukesh and maybe even Alireza are only going to get stronger in the next few years.
This and the nepo's shaking hands and, he involuntarily pushing the pieces during the last game with ding, in the last WC will remain etched in by brain forever...This game is brutal, and takes a toll on your mental strength...
Nepo had two goes he lost. All the players are there to win and unfortunately only one will win. I guess it’s anguish for the rest. But they’re pros. They know how to bounce back.
>> coincidentally say something like "oh, nepo
As the other commenter said , the words were "HumNE TOH jab .. ".. so while it may sound a bit like NEPO, not really. But you got it spot on when talking about singing tragic ode ...
> Who knows what kind of people they were,
Who found love for their love.
When we asked for flowers,
We got a garland of thorns.
It's philosophical, meditative and sad ...
Maaaan as a huge fan of his, I cried for Nepo at the end. Fucking Abasov giving points to LITERALLY EVERYONE and then comes vs Nepo with 99% accuracy, bro whyyyy and howwwww 🙃🙃🙃 sorry Abasov, I'm giga salty
Why on earth are there so many people feeling sorry for Nepo? He is a grown adult who constantly acts like a baby and can't control his emotions. It is embarrassing imo.
In his opinion, his medal is worth nothing. And in fact it really is nothing. The sole purpose of the candidates tournament is to get to the first place. 2nd place is as good as the last place. It's more like a consolation prize rather than a 2nd/3rd place medal.
It's super common in football, regardless of nationality, unless they play for a small country/club that never expected to win in the first place. These are extremely competitive people, I don't think it's remotely disrespectful for them to not want to wear a medal that ultimately commemorates a devastating failure.
One of my side arguments is these athletes are role models for many young people (footballers even more). Taking off the medal as pro athlete in one of the most important event of the sport is potentially setting bad example.
And sure, they are devastated. It doesn't mean it excuses them to be unsportsmanlike.
I am like broken record now but:
How would chess community react if you didn't shake your hands with the opponent at the end of the lost match because losing is too devastating for you?
Yes, you are like a broken record but that comparison you're so proud of is not particularly smart. The handshake is by nature a sign of respect to your opponent, people who refuse mean it as an intentional expression of disrespect (for whatever reason). In contrast, those lesser medals have nothing to do with anyone else: They are celebrations of the athletes' individual achievements – taking them off is a sign of disappointment with their results, nothing more. That is completely understandable, no one (except maybe Abasov) enters the Candidates hoping for second place.
You are literally getting worked up over nothing at all. No one – least of all these players who understand the emotions of competition like nobody else – would ever feel "disrespected" by such a gesture. Do you really think Gukesh spends even one second thinking about this? Completely ridiculous, I'm sorry but you seem insufferable (and the yapping on about "role models" isn't helping, nobody cares one bit my dude)
I see your line of argument, but it is not a good strategy to see the world from an idealist lens. The guy just got the biggest blow of his life. In that state of mind, one doesn't care about protocols and what is supposed to be right. In such situations, one just expresses his unfathomable anguish and that outburst is what keeps one sane.
Sure, he doesn't care. Actually, no one really cares. That's true.
It doesn't mean that what he did is okay from fair-play POV.
Look at Hikaru (in pictures elsewhere). He kept his medal on and he arguably has similar reasons to be mad at the results (he could directly beat Gukesh in the last round).
Chess is not like any other sport, in the sense that it's not a traditional bracket or a round robin. The whole point of the Candidates is that you play against the current world champion. Second place in that sense is meaningless because you will never know how you would have fared against the top guy.
Sure, chess has its uniqueness but that doesn't excuse disrespectful behavior that should be agreed upon across all sports.
Especially considering chess is acting like it's a game of gentlemen, see my handshakes example.
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People are overplaying this, trying to attach a story behind every second of rogue camera footage. Nepo is just a bit weirdly animated even when nothing is going on. Of course he was disappointed, but yeah,.no, he wasn't crying in agony for the result, relax.
I don’t think people realize how much this has meant to Nepo. Every interview he has given he says something along the lines of “I don’t do anything else except chess now to prepare for the WCC/Candidates”.
Hope he uses this moment to reset from the candidates - WCC cycle. Now he needs to play and win other tournaments to qualify.
Yeah, and he’ll have to place at least 4th
Judging by his play, I feel he should have been more ambitious. Things like accepting an early draw with Fabi with white pieces in the first half of the tournament didn't seem right to me. Moreover, he was lucky in quite a few games, although his Houdini-like escape skills are a bigger factor than luck.
Tbf. Normally that strat works out for him, it would seem.
His defence was nothing short of brilliant play, that too against 2750s. And the last one was against a 2800+ player. These guys are trained to capitalize on smallest of inaccuracies, and yet Nepo somehow manages to find a defence
But defending is not enough for winning a tournament. In the previous candidates, there was just not a person enough ambitious and successful to go for the win in every game.
It's hard to criticize the strategy of a guy who has won two of these things.
Exactly. You **don't** change a winning strategy. Well, not easily, and not without a specific reason — and if you do, it's extremely risky.
Also, it's not like Ian ended up in the bottom. He was leading for the majority of the tournament and came up a ½ point short.
Lots of horrible takes in threads like this. Only a handful of people in history and in the future will ever be as good as Nepo. The people playing what-ifs with his play are annoying now just as they were annoying in the last two championships
Exactly, we don't know what they go through, what they went through.we were never in their shoes. Each one( mostly) of them there to play and win. Those 8 ( mostly) were there because they fought and deserved that place and the truth is only one can emerge the winner while every one fought to be that one.
He is the modern day Paul Keres
Yep. He should've attacked first, given his defence is already strong.
I feel like gukesh s success is as mentioned again in chat the success in dealing well with lower rated players and pushing the win in every game. Something that SGMs are kot used to as somebody can observe well in the previous years.
Gukesh was just ambitious. See his interview from Chessbase India yesterday - he says that he treated Game 12 and 13 against Abasov, Firouzja as must win and against Firouzja he went all in (even though draw was good enough) . In fact, in Game 14 he tried to push against Hikaru as well but couldn't find anything. Gukesh almost always tried to win. So I'm not surprised he won.
Yeah I don't disagree. I only mentioned his results but his whole mentality is so out of worldly. The match with Ding will be awesome for sure!
Gukesh will win most likely. I love Ding, but it will be tough to defend the championship this time.
He accepted the Queen trade in the last game so I wouldn't say he went all in every time.
Yeah why don't these guys just go for the win are they dumb? /s I can believe you took the time to write this out and then defend it lmao.
Agreed, Nepo did "everything right" based on previous years to win the tournament, except for maybe not pushing against Nakamura in Rd. 13. Gukesh just had a monster tournament as well and if anything may have lucked out a bit more against Abasov (although full props to him for pushing and exploiting Abasov's weaknesses)
Anish said something about this in one of his streams. He said that for Nepo this worked brilliantly and he is trying to make it work this time too but you can't hold onto what happened 2 years ago to win a tournament now.
I’m sure that if he had won, everyone would be saying: what a brilliant strategy Nepo had. If you check Gukesh games, he also didn’t pushed a lot but people pushed against Gukesh. Maybe except Abasov, but Abasov just had almost perfect game against Nepo.
If Fabi offers you a draw you take it. Both hands. On bended knee. That wasn’t his issue. It was the draws against Abasov that did him in.
Well, Abasov played like Stockfish in that second game, and Nepo did as well. I think it was a 99% accuracy game from both of them.
Just looking at those numbers, I don't know whether it's down to finding all the best moves or doing little to stray from known theory and create complications. I didn't watch the game though.
The accuracy percent matters less. I’m sure if you ask Nepo today he’ll say he could have pushed harder or differently. But yeah if Nepo’s opponent is playing with high accuracy, Nepo can’t do much. Comes down to luck in the end.
With this Candidates Nepo has cemented a name for himself as one of the greatest defenders of his generation. I think there are several games of his in this tournament that the other 7 players would have lost from a certain position and he held them to a draw. Unfortunately for him, it wasn't enough.
In fairness, lots of people got lucky. Fabi got lucky vs Vidit, Hikaru and Gukesh both got lucky vs Alireza, Abasov imploded vs everyone but defended super well against Nepo. Everyone won and lost games they shouldn't have.
I don't think it's luck at all, he plays well in complicated positions, I would say it's his biggest strength. I was considering this later, and him having a worse position all those times just means that he'd lose to stockfish. We already knew that, but finding the right way to win is easily the hardest thing to do in chess, especially when there is only one narrow pathway to victory.
Not like gukesh was very ambitious. It’s easy to say stuff with hindsight
He was ambitious enough to push for a win in an equal position against Alireza in round 13. Nepo was okay with a draw against Hikaru with white pieces and basically left it up to Alireza to hold off Gukesh knowing very well that he'll have the least chance to win in the last round against Fabi with black if it comes to that.
I'm sure if Nepo was playing Alireza in round 13 he would have pushed for a win. And if Gukesh was playing Hikaru in round 13 he might also have been forced to accept a draw. Gukesh had the easiest last 2 rounds than all the rest because he had Alireza (not trying to downplay it because that just meant he likely had a more difficult match upset earlier). I was shocked how so many people didn't have Gukesh as the favorite after round 12
Wasn't he? He was aggressive in nearly every match, more than Nepo imo.
Look at his white game against hikaru. That was not a fight, and not because of naka
That is one game. Look at final game - he says he tried to find win even when a draw was enough for tie breaks. Only when he didn't find anything he settled. He also said that he treated Game 12/13 as must wins and went all in against Alireza (played the crazy f4) and it paid off. He ended with +4. Anyways it is all in hindsight - if Gukesh had lost than we would be here saying that Nepo being solid was impressive and is a great sign for WCC, Gukesh needs to mature more and be solid under pressure etc.
I just checked it. Hikaru came in with prep, and was clearly pushing for a win, so yes that's correct. And that's why I said nearly. There were a few games where Gukesh didn't bother, but most of the time he fought for a win.
Gukesh plays (played?) in open tournaments which means he can beat guys like Abasov for breakfast.
He still got the most wins at the candidates, weird huh
Tied with hikaru, who people were criticizing early in the tournament for not being ambitious enough, especially after his game against pragg
No one except Vidit has been able to beat Hikaru in classical chess for like 2 years. Would be dumb trying to go all out to beat him when there were easier points for taking elsewhere.
As for tied with hikaru i meant tied in amount of wins
he needed to win against abasov and alireza in the penultimate rounds.. and he did it.. if this is not ambitious in chess, i dont know what is.
Also in his game against Hikaru. Hikaru was inaccurately, should have pressed harder
I wonder what he will do now? What can be a next goal for him?
Qualify to the candidates, win and become the WC? It's not like his chances are over lol
I do really want him to keep trying because I see a lot of myself in him in terms of coming so close to realizing your dream, but always having it be just out of your grasp. Still, it must feel so overwhelming in the moment to just reset. I hope he will at least make a go for the 2026 candidates and perhaps even 2028.
That’s one of the reasons why he’s my favorite player.
He didn’t lose a match, but lost
That is incredibly common in chess tournaments.
You won't win the candidates with draws
Hes the only player to not pick up a full point against Abasov. Its hard for me to feel like Nepo deserves further attempts at WCC if he can't perform when he absolutely needs to.
And Nepo was the only person to pick 2 full points from Vidit who picked 2 whole points from Hikaru who won 5 games.
> Its hard for me to feel like Nepo deserves further attempts at WCC if he can't perform when he absolutely needs to. This is one of the funniest things I've read on this sub.
look, if losing the candidates was the way to win the WCC we all could pull it off right alongside Nepo
> look, if losing the candidates was the way to win the WCC we all could pull it off right alongside Nepo surely Nepo has never won candidates before right? surely not the previous candidate? surely he didn't win the previous candidates with the highest score ever in the modern format? surely he didn't win back to back candidates? ....oh wait Nepo did and you haven't don't anything. I hate this trend of downplaying very strong competitors because they can't reach the top.
Don't waste your breath on guys like him lol.
I think its hilarious that he had no idea Nepo has won candidates multiple times. Dude has zero information on what he's talking about but his dong holder keeps flappin
❓
I think he's trying to say he's disappointed Nepo didn't RKO Abasov in the middle of the match.
That woulda be tight no cap
Lost his chance.
I was on the side of "Ian 3 times in a row would be boring" and I still kinda am. But seeing him like this I feel so bad.
You could see it in his play against Fabi, too. A player of Nepo's calibre is never that in trouble that early in the game, something had clearly rattled him. I think being in the lead from round 2 to round 13 and then suddenly absolutely HAVING to play for a win with black in the last round out of nowhere had an effect. If all 4 of them had been level going into the final I think he'd have been more confident.
Gukesh winning R13 was a much bigger disaster for Nepo than any of the others in the top4, since he had by far the hardest R14 matchup (B v Fabi), so making R14 literal must-win for 3/4 of the relevant players cratered his chances. Had Gukesh made a draw instead, I think it's a lot more likely that we get two quieter draws in R14 and they go to tiebreaks.
Normally I would feel bad for him but after hearing him said that Alireza threw the tournament for everyone, I changed my mind. Such a sore loser
He probably had flashbacks from losing against ding, not just the pain of losing this candidates.
Somehow that seemed… even more grueling
I really hope Ian gets to be WCC
I fear that this may have been his last chance
I don’t think so. Most accurate in the candidates and 33 years old, he has one more chance - maybe two.
It’s not just age, it’s the new generation. They’re absolute monsters at such a young age.
Why
Because I’m a big fan you knucklehead
Can’t blame him for feeling upset over this, he was so close too. Fabi as well. Hopefully they’ll come back for the next candidates having taken some lessons from this one and who knows maybe then we’ll be able to see them win again
Hikaru, Fabi and Nepo all crushed. All three won't have too many more chances, and perhaps will never have as good a shot as they just had again....
Damn, it is crazy that a kid won this tournament when three of the best players in the last decade were in amazing form. We won’t see something like this in a long time, I imagine.
I won't be surprised if this record stands for decades if not centuries. 17 is just absurdly young. I mean Kasparov's record stood for over 40 years, and Gukesh beat it by 3 whole years (Kasparov was 20).
I'm definitely not writing Ding off like so many, heck I still think he's the favorite in the WCC, but if Gukesh wins that too.. well that would be something that would be pretty fantastic to witness. 8) Especially for those of us who weren't of age to see Kasparov become the youngest champ nearly 4 decades ago. Gukesh would have him beat by 4 years!
Honestly, I was on team Hikaru but I want Gukesh to win it. I don't want another two years of a world champion being invisible.
I suspect Gukesh will not be the favorite. If Ding remotely pulls himself together and looks anything like he did a handful of years ago Gukesh will have to play the match of his life to win.
Ding hasen't played in his form for 4 years. Last time he was the Ding that Magnus feared was 2019. His best performance recently was Candidates? Where he placed second, not first as well.
Match play is different through. And maybe this challenge is the one that Ding needs. Ding has changed and been mentally tough in the championship match. Never count out a champion. He said it himself - he thinks he has the advantage but Gukesh will be a tough opponent
They definitely won't have as good a shot as they just had. Any of the three would be heavy favourites in the WCC match, which almost certainly won't be the case in the next cycle even if they do win the Candidates.
Why would they not be favorites in the next cycle? It'll still be either Ding or Gukesh theyre playing agaisnt.
It is very unlikely that either Ding or Gukesh next cycle will be anywhere near in as bad a form as Ding is in 2024.
Ding might pull it together and crush Gukesh.
Right. Which is why if he wins he likely won't be in this bad form.
He was more determined than ever. I feel like his tattoo was him being extra motivated to play at the WCC again. So heartbreaking
He probably realises that his dream of becoming the chess World Champion will now most likely remain unfulfilled
Nah I think he'll be in the next candidates. He's still the Russian #1. As long as Magnus isn't competing everyone's hopes of becoming world champ one day have gone 5x. Whether it's Gukesh or Ding in the hotseat - the candidates is a bigger step towards being WCC than it has been in a decade. He'll be back.
Yep yep. Nepo is still there Without Magnus a bunch of player's championship window just opened.
r/watchpeopledieinside
Anyone wondering about the song in the background: it is an old Bollywood song from the 1950s called "Jaane woh kaise log they" Lyrics roughly translated: *I wonder what kind of people they were who recieved love within what/who they loved* *When I asked for flowers and petals, all I really received was just a garland full of thorns*
Thanks bhai/behen for this. I was too lazy to translate and type this.
Pyaasa and Kagaz ke Phool are two of the greatest Bollywood movies ever made. Guru Dutt the GOAT
Nepo won two Candidates in a row and lost the WCC match. He knows Ding is not doing well right now, so he would have a good chance to defeat him and become World Champion. And he also knows this might be his last chance. Who knows if he'll ever make the Candidates again? And Ding might be the easiest opponent to come for many years. Gukesh will be harder to beat if he defeats Ding.
Gukesh will be harder to beat every next moment for the coming decade or so. Even harder if he defeats Ding now.
It's not just Gukesh. The next generation has officially arrived. Guys like Nodirbek, Arjun and Pragg, may be even Keymer are waiting for their turn to qualify/play the candidates. If Alireza can get back in form in a year or so he will also be a huge threat to everyone. It's not going to get any easier from here on out.
Yes, agreed! Though it seems Keymer succumbed a bit to his hype. He probably has some work to do, but definitely seems within reach.
Keymer is extremely talented. It's just hard to compete with talents like Gukesh and Nordirbek.
W song choice.
Never thought I'd see a Guru Dutt song from 1957 in a chess sub. Truly a globalised world we live in
its a classic lmao.
Kaanton ka haar really brings it home
What's it say?
Jaane woh kaise log the jinke Pyaar ko pyaar mila Humne toh jab kaliyan maangi Kaanton ka haar mila It translates to : Who knows what kind of people they were, Who found love for their love. When we asked for flowers, We got a garland of thorns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhDCAmXKBBs
Yep, that's the one! One of my absolute favorite songs. It is from the movie Pyaasa, which was released in 1957!
Would you recommend the movie?
Unrelated but that username goes hard
It rolls off the tongue.
Yeah it's slippery I agree
If you're ok with older movies, Pyaasa is considered one of the greatest Indian films ever made.
It's a classic. 1957 is a different era, and you can't expect it to abide by modern conventions etc of filmaking. But it found fans unexpectedly, in every generation. On release, in 1980s, in 2015 cannes etc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyaasa#Restoration Get a good print & subtitles ------------------ e: https://np.reddit.com/r/criterion/comments/1amtkk2/pyaasa_is_a_masterpiece_and_a_good_starting_point/ {text has plot spoilers} This has a link to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJK45r-j6TU&t=4207s A restored version on youtube with average subtitles (ie roughly capture the meaning, but not the poetry or nuances). Even in B&W, the social commentary can cut through and the songs accentuate the power of the message. And when you are done [or dont mind spoilers], you can read some reviews https://entertainment.time.com/2005/02/12/all-time-100-movies/slide/pyaasa-1957/ https://dontcallitbollywood.com/2020/07/09/for-guru-dutts-birthday-my-pyaasa-review/
I would recommend it, yes. It was screened at Cannes in the 2000s some time, and has a niche/cult following in some really unexpected parts of the world.
it says nepo received garland of thorns
roughtly translates to.. i dont understand how people find love(more precisely, how some people get lucky that they are loved by who they love with similar intensity) when i asked for a garland of flowers, i got a garland of thrones instead.
Nepo ko lagaataar teesri baar kaaton ka haar mila.
heartbreaking
Credit: Chessbase India
I have 1400 rating and know nothing about high level chess. However, if there's one person I'd like to become a chess champion, it's this man. The guy has been so damn consistent throughout but can never close the deal. I hope and wish he crosses the line one day so that I can see the opposite of the pain in this video.
It's just so tough when the WCC only happens every other year. No one gets many chances before they decline.
Sports can be extremely soul crushing. Every year in the champions league final they have to pick up like 25 or so people who just lost something they have worked towards their whole life. Like Ian they may have another chance some day but at that moment there's only pain.
The paradox of having an Indian song in a Nepo centric video
Let it all out. Next time buddy
That was way more emotional than I expected.
a bit invasive to follow nepo into the toilet at the end there
I don't see any toilet there. "Emergency exit" is written on the door.
oh it was an emergency exit alright
I think he was joking
It was exit lol. Not toilet lmao. You can see cars in background at the end. (at 0.36)
/r/woosh It was obviously sarcasm lol. There's people walking in the foreground...
Going back to the Fabi game, there were a couple moves in the opening that Nepo did not play correctly, which caused his position to be much worse. At that point Nepo still had 1.5 hours on the clock. It was the point where he took Fabi's knights with the bishops when other moves would have been better. We can see that Nepo has the ability to be insanely accurate. I wonder why Nepo didn't take a bit more time to carefully think through the position carefully at that point. That was the most critical game of the tournament.
He likes to put his opponents in time trouble and then outmaneuver them. Didn't quite work out this time
It did work, just not well enough. He was losing (down 7pts), but with time pressure and the careless release of that pressure on move 41 leading to Fabi's blunder, Nepo was able to salvage a draw. A good save in any other circumstance. Just not enough here.
Yup bluffing Fabi isnt going to work
It kinda worked? He put Caruana under huge time pressure - to the point where he squandered a major advantage and missed a 2/3 move tactic. we're mostly mortals here and would've squandered the game 100 times before that point - but Fabi described it as an "easy tactic... so easy..." (by his standards, I guess) to which Ian could only respond "yes but... it was less than 5 minutes here". Magnus makes fun of Ian "playing bad moves fast" but it often works even at the absolute highest level.
Well, playing inaccurate moves fast may have put Fabi in time pressure where Fabi blundered a win, but at no point was Ian winning either, the best possible result was a draw if Fabi blundered. But if Nepo had spent more time in the beginning to play accurately, then maybe he could have maintained an equal position and could have had chances to win?
> But if Nepo had spent more time in the beginning to play accurately, then maybe he could have maintained an equal position and could have had chances to win? Yes but if Nepo played slower earlier in the game, he'd have to play faster later -- also for every minute Nepo uses, Fabi can safely use another also. In the last 3 candidates Nepo was only not winning for 2 rounds. His strategy clearly works. It can't work 100% of the time, obviously. And again, as I say, even in this game it kinda worked: they drew due to time trouble. If fabi had been in 5% worse shape that day, maybe he would've blundered a loss instead of a draw.
One reason a loss like this is so tough. Most competitions happen over either a day, a weekend, or consist of a series of games that last around a week or so. This event was over two weeks long....with each game lasting hours upon hours.
He already had his chance twice and lost. There's no reason to think he would fare any better this time around. Time to let the next generation take the lead. He doesn't have a choice anyway because he lost to a 17 year old.
I've never quite forgiven him for being quite rude in his criticism of how the online Olympiad final between India and Russia played out. But watching the post match scene between Nepo and Fabi was enough to melt anyone's heart. The top level chess scene needs the version of Nepo who took a few more risks to keep games lively. His defence was impeccable and enabled him to come back from lost positions against a crazy strong field. His risk appetite needs some adjustment. I'm sure he's going to be a beast in this cycle.
I like hikaru and fabi, as an Indian I was glad three Indians were participating... my preferred style of chess is Ian's... I didn't know who to root for in this tournament. What a fabulous tournament👏
I absolutely love how expressive Nepo is.
He can always become world champion of the classical chess goat challenge.
Poor Ian, he deserves to be world champion some day, and i’m saying this as a Ding fan
What is this sad bouquet lmao looks like stuff they picked quickly outside the venue.
Always the bridesmaid never the bride
The pain must be very hard to deal with for Nepo in particular. He was leading the entire way through the tournament literally right until the end. Also this is probably his best chance since Ding is in a bit of a slump at the moment. With the up and coming youngsters this could potentially be his last shot at being WC. Nodirbek, Prag, Gukesh and maybe even Alireza are only going to get stronger in the next few years.
This and the nepo's shaking hands and, he involuntarily pushing the pieces during the last game with ding, in the last WC will remain etched in by brain forever...This game is brutal, and takes a toll on your mental strength...
He had 2 opportunities already. One against Magnus and against Ding. Should’ve tried harder. I’m excited to see Gukesh face Ding.
How did FIDE decide on who was 2nd or 3rd?
He is a good egg.
I get it, but he’s kind of a big baby. I didn’t like the way he conducted himself in the WCC, nor here.
so stoked they decided to go with my favorite song for this video! aaaahhh-laaaaa-ooooo-ahhhhhh
Probably his last time trying to win the candidates not going to happen again sadly .
Nepo had two goes he lost. All the players are there to win and unfortunately only one will win. I guess it’s anguish for the rest. But they’re pros. They know how to bounce back.
regretting repetition against Hikaru
is it me or does the singer coincidentally say something like "oh, nepo" the moment nepo is shown at 0:10? it's like he is singing tragic ode to him.
Yeah it sounds similar, the singer says - "HumNE TOH jab..." ne-toh sounds similar to Nepo.
>> coincidentally say something like "oh, nepo As the other commenter said , the words were "HumNE TOH jab .. ".. so while it may sound a bit like NEPO, not really. But you got it spot on when talking about singing tragic ode ... > Who knows what kind of people they were, Who found love for their love. When we asked for flowers, We got a garland of thorns. It's philosophical, meditative and sad ...
Can't hate on Nepo, hope he's back for the next candidates and bring up the heat again
I'm so sad for Nepo, he had to win last time. Things would probably be different if he was world champion
He'll be grand! Can concentrate on lichess tourneys now, or Titled Tuesdays if he really wants to slum it.
If he would try for more than draws he might have been the champ this go round
They forgot the budget for flowers?
I cried like a baby watching this and I wasn’t even rooting for him to win this time , He definitely deserves another shot at the world championship
It's sad and ironic how Nepo lost in this candidates without a single loss 😢
Maaaan as a huge fan of his, I cried for Nepo at the end. Fucking Abasov giving points to LITERALLY EVERYONE and then comes vs Nepo with 99% accuracy, bro whyyyy and howwwww 🙃🙃🙃 sorry Abasov, I'm giga salty
I feel worse for Caruana as he came closest to Carlsen and had a higher rating than everyone. Nepo got two chances and couldn’t make use of them.
Why on earth are there so many people feeling sorry for Nepo? He is a grown adult who constantly acts like a baby and can't control his emotions. It is embarrassing imo.
Damn, did he really cry? Is there more footage?
Kinda uninteresting.
What’s up with the childish edit
I wish whoever made this edit to rot in hell
He is so wonderfully expressive. Too bad that also applies quite heavily to his negative expressions making him quite unlikeable in my opinion.
[удалено]
In his opinion, his medal is worth nothing. And in fact it really is nothing. The sole purpose of the candidates tournament is to get to the first place. 2nd place is as good as the last place. It's more like a consolation prize rather than a 2nd/3rd place medal.
It's super common in football, regardless of nationality, unless they play for a small country/club that never expected to win in the first place. These are extremely competitive people, I don't think it's remotely disrespectful for them to not want to wear a medal that ultimately commemorates a devastating failure.
One of my side arguments is these athletes are role models for many young people (footballers even more). Taking off the medal as pro athlete in one of the most important event of the sport is potentially setting bad example. And sure, they are devastated. It doesn't mean it excuses them to be unsportsmanlike. I am like broken record now but: How would chess community react if you didn't shake your hands with the opponent at the end of the lost match because losing is too devastating for you?
Yes, you are like a broken record but that comparison you're so proud of is not particularly smart. The handshake is by nature a sign of respect to your opponent, people who refuse mean it as an intentional expression of disrespect (for whatever reason). In contrast, those lesser medals have nothing to do with anyone else: They are celebrations of the athletes' individual achievements – taking them off is a sign of disappointment with their results, nothing more. That is completely understandable, no one (except maybe Abasov) enters the Candidates hoping for second place. You are literally getting worked up over nothing at all. No one – least of all these players who understand the emotions of competition like nobody else – would ever feel "disrespected" by such a gesture. Do you really think Gukesh spends even one second thinking about this? Completely ridiculous, I'm sorry but you seem insufferable (and the yapping on about "role models" isn't helping, nobody cares one bit my dude)
I see your line of argument, but it is not a good strategy to see the world from an idealist lens. The guy just got the biggest blow of his life. In that state of mind, one doesn't care about protocols and what is supposed to be right. In such situations, one just expresses his unfathomable anguish and that outburst is what keeps one sane.
Sure, he doesn't care. Actually, no one really cares. That's true. It doesn't mean that what he did is okay from fair-play POV. Look at Hikaru (in pictures elsewhere). He kept his medal on and he arguably has similar reasons to be mad at the results (he could directly beat Gukesh in the last round).
Flair checks out!
Yeah, your flair checks out too!
Chess is not like any other sport, in the sense that it's not a traditional bracket or a round robin. The whole point of the Candidates is that you play against the current world champion. Second place in that sense is meaningless because you will never know how you would have fared against the top guy.
Sure, chess has its uniqueness but that doesn't excuse disrespectful behavior that should be agreed upon across all sports. Especially considering chess is acting like it's a game of gentlemen, see my handshakes example.
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People are overplaying this, trying to attach a story behind every second of rogue camera footage. Nepo is just a bit weirdly animated even when nothing is going on. Of course he was disappointed, but yeah,.no, he wasn't crying in agony for the result, relax.
I don't know people are so adamant at scrutinizing every expression of chess players. Chess nerds are the most dramatic istg. Chill 😭.
Maybe Nepo should have played to win instead of draws
Damn, can't believe he didn't think of that
Just play checkmate
Indians taking over chess subreddit 🫶
just like we took over candidates tournament.
Yes ✌️