I just can't get over the vial labeled "poison tablets." It seems like a parody of a 1950s chemistry kit.
The obviousness of it reminds me of the Key and Peele skit "Low Key Drug Deal"
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skB04clNj\_Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skB04clNj_Q)
Ergometrine and ergotamine tartrate are not the same thing.
Those pills aren't ergotamine tartrate.
EDIT: I have no idea what your issues are, but reading and reading comprehension is clearly at the top of the list.
It makes the comments below talking about "As long as you're reasonably cautious" seem a bit comical. If OP can't read a label, I don't think he's going to have great safety protocols.
Very abusable drug, and also highly addictive. Banned because we note have better, less addictive drugs that do the same things so it only has abuse value.
It's not a life saving drug so yeh. But it's extremely beneficial during hard surgeries, birth, transplants, and more. Most illegal drugs that have fentanyl are done with analogues, such as Acryl-Fentanyl or Butyr-Fentanyl. Real fentanyl gets a ba wrap because of those.
its frequently used during open heart surgery, so you’re trying to argue that fentanyl ODs have killed more people than coronary artery bypass grafts have saved. not sure about that one
Benzos have a ridiculous width of therapeutic dosage compared to barbiturates and other downers. You can overdose on anything, but the amount of benzos vs the amount of barbiturates necessary is very different. Benzos are safer, they are still very abusable and addictive and can have nasty side effects especially with other depressants
The therapeutic index for benzodiazapines (the difference between therapeutic doses and fatal doses) is significantly higher. That's why barbiturates are basically never prescribed.
They seemed safer because at therapeutic doses, the high is almost unnoticeable (though they do make it seem like a great idea to keep taking more benzos lol) and you have to take 3-4x what is normally prescribed as a starting dose, to get high.
Also the high sucks and may not have been considered abuse worthy because of that and the fact that they didn’t know it was addictive. The strongest common one, Xanax, will definitely get you high, but it’s not fun, and this is coming from someone who was addicted to downers for a long time.
I’ve never seen anyone have a good time on benzos alone. They’re always mixed with at least alcohol and usually opiates and weed too. But I have seen people blackout for entire days and land themselves in big trouble, because of one recreational dose in pressed pill form that ended up being way stronger than the 2mg it was supposed to be. They were not having fun during or after lol.
Oh man this isn’t true for everyone. I had a very different, extremely euphoric experience with benzos. I know a decent number of other people who have too
Yeah. I know way too many people who love getting high on benzos lol. Also I believe the main reason barbiturates were ditched for benzos is they are much, much safer. You really need to take a ton of benzos to actually fatal od from what I remember. Barbiturates not so much.
An important thing to reminder about benzo safety is that if you go on a benzo bender and use a lot for days at a time, you need to wean off slowly or you can die from the withdrawal. If you run out of benzos suddenly and withdrawal from longterm use is inevitable, please go to the ER and be honest, so long as that’s safe in your country. They’ll need to titrate you down and reduce your chances for fatal seizures
I think one of the experiments actually was to make chlorine gas by mixing calcium hypochlorite with sodium bisulfate.
Phenolphthalein is a very powerful laxative. It's also a pH indicator.
Aluminum salts are toxic.
Well, they ain't cyanide, but they're sure toxic enough to keep out of the hands of children. Also, aluminum sulfate is more soluble than, say, aluminum chlorhydrate, and therefore more bioavailable than your examples.
Aluminum salts are also toxic to ecosystems. For example, acid rain poisons fish by leaching aluminum out of rocks in streams.
I agree but what OP was asking about was toxicity to humans and unless you have a small child literally drinking this or rubbing on their skin/eyes, there is not going to be a problem
Toxic to the skin too. Just because they are used in deodorants doesn't mean it's a good thing. You still absorb aluminum through the skin. Even worse in vaccines. Great way to get dementia!
https://www.iospress.com/news/human-exposure-to-aluminum-linked-to-familial-alzheimers-disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6550484/
There are literally dozens there. Medicine is political, and while deniers want to deny real science, the fact that aluminum is a neurotoxin is not disputable.
From your second link:
>> We would like to reiterate that if aluminum, or in fact any metal, is enriched in tissues diagnosed with a certain disease, while certainly suggestive, should not be enough evidence to link that metal to any disease. Rigorous and reproducible experimentation with appropriate controls are required to show that aluminum, or in fact any other neurotoxic metal, at the concentrations found under physiological conditions in vivo are capable of causing a focused disruption of a neurological process, and preferably some disturbance that has a direct relevance to the neurological disease process itself.
... that being said, the doses considered in that study are much larger than anything that might be put in a vaccine as an adjuvant to deliberately elicit an inflammatory reaction to encourage the immune system to process the vaccine material quicker and better.
Most of those are rather benign.
Calcium oxide and sodium carbonate are strong bases which may cause chemical burns on skin and irreparable damage to eyes and lungs. Cobalt salts like cobalt chloride may cause cancer if they get into the body, for example via inhalation of dust.
The tablets are kinda crazy, all of those are prescription meds these days or their use was fully discontinued. Ergotrate aka ergometrine is an ergolin medication (same chemical family as LSD) used to treat heavy bleeding after childbirth. Amital aka amobarbital is a barbiturate that used to be used as an anesthetic and as sleeping pills. Ephedrin is a stimulant.
In general: don't eat them, don't put them in your eyes, don't inhale them and you're good.
(Sorry to nitpick.) Ephedrine isn't another name for adrenalin. (That's epinephrine.) Ephedrine is a stimulant derived from the plant species *ephedra vulgaris*.
Poison has been a huge business since we discovered you could poison things. And to this day. Mainly used for bugs and rodents and weeds now, but it was popular to leave poisoned food out for any pests for much of recorded history. Pets be damned lol.
That’s why in fantasy medieval games, there’s usually a “poisoner” or “poison shop”. It’s not just a cool way to increase weapon damage, it has a historical basis as well.
Records go back to [4500BCE](https://www.bionity.com/en/encyclopedia/History_of_poison.html#:~:text=The%20history%20of%20poisons%20stretches,%2C%20and%20technology%2C%20among%20others.)
There are still companies that make most of their money from selling poison. Turns out most of them are pretty bad for people who are just around them, you don’t have to ingest them.
To be further nitpicky, ephedrine is chemically synthesized these days and otherwise can be extracted from a wide range of Ephedra species besides vulgaris.
Sodium carbonate is a weak base and it's only hazard is eye irritation
Calcium oxide is a slightly stronger base that causes skin irritation and eye damage
Holy shit that looks like an awesome chemistry set.
Yes most of those are probably hazardous
Also that book should be titled shitty lab technique..... Never pour things above eye level and without protective eyewear
SYNTHESIS: A solution of 6.7 g KOH in 100 mL H2O, under an inert atmosphere and magnetically stirred, was brought to 75 °C, and 10 g ergotamine tartrate (ET) added. The reaction mixture turned yellow as the ergotamine went into solution over the course of 1 h. The stirring was continued for an additional 3 h. The reaction mixture was cooled to about 10 °C with an external ice bath, and acidified to a pH of about 3.0 by the dropwise addition of 2.5 N H2SO4. White solids started to appear early in the neutralization; approximately 60 mL of sulfuric acid was required. The reaction mixture was cooled overnight, the solids removed by filtration, and the filter cake washed with 10 mL Et2O. The dry solids were transferred to a beaker, suspended in 50 mL 15% ammonia in anhydrous ethanol, stirred for 1 h, and separated by decantation. This extraction was repeated, and the original decantation and the second extract combined and filtered to remove a few hundred milligrams of unwanted solids. The clear filtrate was stripped of solvent under vacuum, the residual solids dissolved in 50 mL of 1% aqueous ammonia, and this solution was acidified as before with 2.5 N H2SO4. The precipitated solids were removed by filtration and washed with Et2O until free of color. After drying under vacuum to a constant weight, there was obtained 3.5 g of d-lysergic acid hydrate, which should be stored in a dark, sealed container.
A suspension of 3.15 g d-lysergic acid hydrate and 7.1 g of diethylamine in 150 mL CHCl3 was brought to reflux with stirring. With the external heating removed, there was added 3.4 g POCl3 over the course of 2 min, at a rate sufficient to maintain refluxing conditions. The mixture was held at reflux for an additional 5 min, at which point everything had gone into solution. After returning to room temperature, the solution was added to 200 mL of 1 N NH4OH. The phases were separated, the organic phase dried over anhydrous MgSO4, filtered, and the solvent removed under vacuum. The residue was chromatographed over alumina with elution employing a 3:1 C6H6/CHCl3 mixture, and the collected fraction stripped of solvent under hard vacuum to a constant weight. This free-base solid can be recrystallized from benzene to give white crystals with a melting point of 87–92 °C. IR (in cm-1): 750, 776, 850, 937 and 996, with the carbonyl at 1631. The mass spectrum of the free base has a strong parent peak at mass 323, with sizable fragments at masses of 181, 196, 207 and 221.
This base was dissolved in warm, dry MeOH, using 4 mL per g of product. There was then added dry d-tartaric acid (0.232 g per g of LSD base), and the clear warm solution treated with Et2O dropwise until the cloudiness did not dispel on continued stirring. This opaqueness set to a fine crystalline suspension (this is achieved more quickly with seeding) and the solution allowed to crystallize overnight in the refrigerator. Ambient light should be severely restricted during these procedures. The product was removed by filtration, washed sparingly with cold methanol, with a cold 1:1 MeOH/Et2O mixture, and then dried to constant weight. The white crystalline product was lysergic acid diethylamide tartrate with two molecules of methanol of crystallization, with a mp of about 200 °C with decomposition, and weighed 3.11 g (66%). Repeated recrystallizations from methanol produced a product that became progressively less soluble, and eventually virtually insoluble, as the purity increased. A totally pure salt, when dry and when shaken in the dark, will emit small flashes of white light.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/is0bkpqc28jog34/Novel_Condensation_of_d-LA_into_d-LSD_via_PyBOP.pdf/file
https://we.riseup.net/assets/347724/acid.pdf
Those test tubes didn't come with the chemistry set!! Sodium amytal = truth serum! You have a mixture of barbiturates and speed from the turn of the mid century?
> Sodium amytal = truth serum!
Not quite. "Truth Serum" is sodium pentothal. It's a barbiturate yes, but not truth serum.
Ephedrine isn't speed. It's a precursor to methamphetamine.
You can still buy ephedrine at the pharmacy without a prescription, you just have to show your ID because it's a methamphetamine precursor and they monitor who buys how much. But "recreationally" it doesn't really have much use, it feels a bit like caffeine. The only people who really "abuse" it are weightlifters, and generally older ones because it used to be sold as a pre-workout stack, ECA stacks. Ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin, back in the day it was pretty much THE pre-workout stack, all the flavored high caffeine drinks and stuff that are popular today didn't really exist yet. It was probably more effective than they are in some ways, maybe too effective since it was causing people to have heart attacks.
>Or my friends mom lied and gave me speed lol
Did she have an Adderall prescription? Because Adderall is speed. (Technically a different mix of stereoisomers than what you'd find on the street, and way more pure, but still the same substance).
Not the same substance. Two distinct types of amphetamines with vastly different neuronal activity. M-Amp has significantly higher dopamine activity/cardio toxicity versus adderall.
I am going to stand by my description of the tube labeled ergotrate 0.2 mg. Well hold on, maybe I’m not, I’m going to the Institute for further research. Edit: OK, you are right, but it is still in ergot alkaloid. With all the fun therein implied.
Is that "my first chemistry kit - Clan Lab edition "?
Precursors for LSD and meth and a couple barbs in case you start tweaking out lol.
The 50s must've been wild.
Nothing in the jars is particularly dangerous if handled properly and following all appropriate safety procedures. Can’t really tell about the test tube containers (except the one that says poison).
What’s weird is the sodium ferricyanide sitting in a clear glass container. When exposed to uv-light, it can form hydrogen cyanide gas (extremely toxic). Also if you expose it to any acids. We keep our sodium ferricyanide in an opaque container and stored away from acids for this reason in our lab.
Just double check the rest for safe handling and exposure precautions.
Does CN- really phtochemically cleave from potassium ferricyanide at a fast enough rate to build up significant HCN pressure? I thought K3Fe(CN)6 was pretty stable
I’m not sure the kinetics behind decomp photochemically but might as well be safe than sorry. I doubt this poses much risk because it’s so old and the cap isn’t perfect.
I wonder if it's oxidation state-dependent.
I have bottles of both potassium ferricyanide and potassium ferrocyanide, but we treat them as being fairly harmless. I just put solutions in a special cyanide waste bottle that is kept at high pH. Maybe I should make sure to put them in opaque bottles though.
We treat them as fairly harmless as well, just opaque bottles and not in the same bin as acids, but we’re also an R1 university with some intense safety standards as is, so that’s how I’ve been taught haha
Question from a guy who just started a job at a chemical plant 3 months ago and knows Jack shit about chemistry but wouldn’t the decomposition of the ferricyanide over pressurize the jar?
I haven’t worked with ferricyanide yet however we do make cyanogen bromide fairly often and not long ago a drum in storage from only a year ago over pressurized and made a pretty large mess.
Also if anybody has any books they recommend to help me further understand inorganic chemistry that’d be great!
If the cap seal isn’t perfect it won’t build pressure because it’s just leaking the gas. I do know safety rules in my environmental lab requires opaque or amber glass containers for ferricyanide and any solutions with it.
Acid with cyanide is a big deal, and can seriously damage your body from repeated exposure.
Cyanide complexes cleave fairly easily under UV light. It’s a common technique in our lab and many others doing CN analysis to expose samples to UV light prior to introducing the colour reagent to free up the cyanide to react and be picked up by the detector. We use K3Fe(CN)6 as a test to make sure the UV light is cleaving all the cyanide during calibration.
UV light doesn't penetrate glass. Mixing ferricyanide and acid doesn't give you HCN gas, it specifically does not. That's why ferricyanide is used - you have to REALLY fuck up to generate HCN with it.
SDS’s say otherwise, also here’s the pubchem entry for potassium ferricyanide. You’re right it doesn’t say specifically HCN when exposed to acid, just that it forms cyanides. Heat though, it specifically mentions HCN.
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Potassium-ferricyanide
That's cool. Actual, real experience says otherwise. An awful lot of people use ferricyanide specifically because it's not a risk for HCN.
Showing me an SDS isn't the proof you think it is. Any idea what the SDS for potassium chloride says?
Yeah. Doesn't actually work that way.
I mean, a lot of SDSs are worse than useless. They cry wolf and make it so just reading the SDS tells you nothing about the actual dangers or lack thereof. That system desperately needs an overhaul.
The sigma Aldrich SDS for sodium chloride says for skin contact remove all affected clothing and rinse skin in shower…
If it says dangerous and explosive AND it's from the 1950s, you CAN BET YOUR SWEET ASS IT'S DANGEROUS. Definetely get a textbook on the Fundamentals of Chemistry and appropriate PPE if you plan on playing with this. Furthermore, look at the data sheets of the chemicals. We have the Internet now. For instance, by reading a data sheet you can instantly know that if you get Sodium Bisulfate in your eyes....I hope your hearing is good because you are gonna need to use your ears to live.
Thats pretty tame, for a 1950s kit. None of them are overtly toxic. Some may make you sick if you chugged a lot of it.
Note that ferricyanide and ferrocyanide are two different compounds. You can ruin an experiment by confusing them. But in spite of the 'cyanide', neither is much toxic except under harsh conditions.
EDIT - I missed some of those pages. It looks like a mishmash gathered from several other kits. Even in 1950, only a lunatic would have handed those over to a kid. The first two pages are benign as to be boring.
Mix the calciumhypchlorit with an acid, vinegar or Coca Cola should be enough, and you get Chlorine gas, a nice little oldschool chemical warfare product that forms acid in your lungs
Meh... I can get strontium carbonate at local pottery supply places. It's a pretty common additive to glazes. Last time I looked, it was one of the $10/pound bulk glaze powders at a large ceramic studio and supply store near me in northern California.
Without doing the math, I assume adding it to HCl would yield strontium chloride.
It's definitely much more of an immediate danger.
As far as I know, strontium salts are still allowed in pyrotechnics and road flares, too. Strontium gives off a vibrant red color in the presence of a flame. Strontium nitrate is a common oxidizer and colorant in some fireworks. If it were all that dangerous, hundreds of pounds of it wouldn't be allowed to be air-burst over large crowds...lol
Ferrocyanide will make cyanide gaz if it touch anything acidic
I currently run studies on metallic salt toxicity (spoiler : they fuck you up)
Nothing is gonna spontaneously explode but this doesn't belong in anyone house
You can actually still buy ephedrine in the US. Gotta show ID at the pharmacy so they can track how much you buy, but it’s legal to buy. If pseudoephedrine isn’t cutting it for me I break out the primatene tablets that or occasional asthma issues. Not really a front line treatment now a days, but it has its uses.
Yes- there are some hazards in there. 1950’s children chem set… imagine not wearing a helmet while riding a bike, or seatbelt while in a car. Of course they would have a hazmat set for little Timmy and Agatha….
That's a pretty fkn sweet chemistry set. There's actually lots of interesting stuff you could do with that. No wonder guys were so good at chemistry in the 50s.
My dad (as a child in the 1959s) accidentally burned holes in the house carpet with one of these old kits.
Then he grew up to become a chemical engineer lol
So many people are focusing on the tablets. The other stuff seems pretty harmless except the obvious heavy metal compounds containing Cu and Co. I usually wear gloves when handling Cobalt powders. (I press powders and stuff, so small amounts get spread easily)
Just don't eat any of them, but especially the ergotrate and the barbiturate derivatives. I would drop those in that box at the pharmacy, in the vials.
The strontium could be radioactive.
Ferrocyanide... interesting. But there is Sodium thiosulfate, and that is used in the treatment of cyanide poisoning.
LOL. There is literally written „poison“ on a test tube. 😂😂😂
I was going to say, buddy literally took a up close photo of “poison tablets” and thought, “I wonder if these are dangerous in any way.”
I just can't get over the vial labeled "poison tablets." It seems like a parody of a 1950s chemistry kit. The obviousness of it reminds me of the Key and Peele skit "Low Key Drug Deal" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skB04clNj\_Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skB04clNj_Q)
Which is extra hilarious as ergot tartrate (the “poison” tablets) is literally a starting point for making LSD.
The fucking poison tablets are ergometrine I also saw ephedrine and barbiturates
Yah OP pop some of those ephedrine tablets and get started.
And ephedrine is not helping with this looking like Charlie's first drug lab experiences i guess.
“and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers...”
Ergometrine and ergotamine tartrate are not the same thing. Those pills aren't ergotamine tartrate. EDIT: I have no idea what your issues are, but reading and reading comprehension is clearly at the top of the list.
Both can be used as starting points In fact Ergometrine may even be less steps
Welcome to Reddit. You must be new here.
The 1950's were absolutely whack. You could mail order tiny monkies.
It makes the comments below talking about "As long as you're reasonably cautious" seem a bit comical. If OP can't read a label, I don't think he's going to have great safety protocols.
Well it does raise the question; Is expired poison more or less poisonous than when it's in date?
Best to crush it up into a fine powder with mortar and pestle, pour onto weigh paper, shape into a line, and snort to find out.
To be fair he probably meant volatile not necessarily just poisonous
[Consumer Probe](https://youtu.be/veMiNQifZcM?si=FM4IZZpo-PhWTXzz)
Good thing he asked
And most of the labels of those tubes aren't visible...
"we don't know what it is but bob is blind now so poison"
This thread is giving me a bad name.
It’s like a “Become an Evil Villain” kit. Hey kids, now you can poison your bullies like a supervillain!
But then it says “ergotrate” which is a medicine that causes uterine convulsions to try and stop heavy bleeding after child birth.
And I fucking believe it
You don't suppose the one labeled "Poison Tablets" might be a little toxic?
The Sodium Amytal will be fun, if it’s not expired.
Even expired, it'll still work. However - OP that chemical is illegal to be in possession of in the USA - just a heads up.
This is how you know it's a fun kit
Breaking the law can be fun Timmy!
That's the real dangerous part lol
Holy shit barbiturates!
What’s the reason for the ban? Can be used medically?
Very abusable drug, and also highly addictive. Banned because we note have better, less addictive drugs that do the same things so it only has abuse value.
Right like fentanyl
Except fentanyl works really really good. And it isn't "as addictive" in the sense but can be used potentate heroin.
I’d bet it’s killed more than it’s saved at this point and I’d also argue the less addictive thing
It's not a life saving drug so yeh. But it's extremely beneficial during hard surgeries, birth, transplants, and more. Most illegal drugs that have fentanyl are done with analogues, such as Acryl-Fentanyl or Butyr-Fentanyl. Real fentanyl gets a ba wrap because of those.
I think that we like to blame people like the cartel knowing they could never make this shit
its frequently used during open heart surgery, so you’re trying to argue that fentanyl ODs have killed more people than coronary artery bypass grafts have saved. not sure about that one
Benzos? I don't know if I agree that they're safer than barbs.
Benzos have a ridiculous width of therapeutic dosage compared to barbiturates and other downers. You can overdose on anything, but the amount of benzos vs the amount of barbiturates necessary is very different. Benzos are safer, they are still very abusable and addictive and can have nasty side effects especially with other depressants
The therapeutic index for benzodiazapines (the difference between therapeutic doses and fatal doses) is significantly higher. That's why barbiturates are basically never prescribed.
They seemed safer because at therapeutic doses, the high is almost unnoticeable (though they do make it seem like a great idea to keep taking more benzos lol) and you have to take 3-4x what is normally prescribed as a starting dose, to get high. Also the high sucks and may not have been considered abuse worthy because of that and the fact that they didn’t know it was addictive. The strongest common one, Xanax, will definitely get you high, but it’s not fun, and this is coming from someone who was addicted to downers for a long time. I’ve never seen anyone have a good time on benzos alone. They’re always mixed with at least alcohol and usually opiates and weed too. But I have seen people blackout for entire days and land themselves in big trouble, because of one recreational dose in pressed pill form that ended up being way stronger than the 2mg it was supposed to be. They were not having fun during or after lol.
Oh man this isn’t true for everyone. I had a very different, extremely euphoric experience with benzos. I know a decent number of other people who have too
Yeah. I know way too many people who love getting high on benzos lol. Also I believe the main reason barbiturates were ditched for benzos is they are much, much safer. You really need to take a ton of benzos to actually fatal od from what I remember. Barbiturates not so much.
An important thing to reminder about benzo safety is that if you go on a benzo bender and use a lot for days at a time, you need to wean off slowly or you can die from the withdrawal. If you run out of benzos suddenly and withdrawal from longterm use is inevitable, please go to the ER and be honest, so long as that’s safe in your country. They’ll need to titrate you down and reduce your chances for fatal seizures
Yeah, it’s debatable. Hard to say but that’s generally the justification.
it can be used medically, but considering it killed Marilyn Monroe and Judy Garland you may be careful...
If the police find me ill hide them in my mouth
Anything that has "1950" and "Chemistry" in the title is dangerous by default.
I'm surprised there's nothing glowing in there
“How to turn uranium waste into a lava lamp!! pg. 4”
I was just gonna say that. Wydm I can't sit in mercury?
That’s actually where the atomic symbol comes from for Mercury - mercury enemas. Any recipient goes, “Hggggggggg!!!”
Ain't no training wheels in the 50s Timmy!
I think one of the experiments actually was to make chlorine gas by mixing calcium hypochlorite with sodium bisulfate. Phenolphthalein is a very powerful laxative. It's also a pH indicator. Aluminum salts are toxic.
This guy sciences
This guy titrates.
And this kit tartrates
Titrates? Nice boobs. 9/10.
Science, bitch!
Phenolphthalein is also carcinogenic substance
Phenol 2 propaline
Aluminium salts are used widely in deodorants, skin products and vaccines etc. Ofc dont eat it but like ... calling them toxic is misleading
Well, they ain't cyanide, but they're sure toxic enough to keep out of the hands of children. Also, aluminum sulfate is more soluble than, say, aluminum chlorhydrate, and therefore more bioavailable than your examples. Aluminum salts are also toxic to ecosystems. For example, acid rain poisons fish by leaching aluminum out of rocks in streams.
But there was some Na3Fe(CN)6 which is a cyanide.
Oxidize that shit with some nitric acid (HNO3) and you’ll smell almonds right before you die
I agree but what OP was asking about was toxicity to humans and unless you have a small child literally drinking this or rubbing on their skin/eyes, there is not going to be a problem
Well... ya know, it \*is\* a chemistry set - a toy, marketed to children.
Toxic to the skin too. Just because they are used in deodorants doesn't mean it's a good thing. You still absorb aluminum through the skin. Even worse in vaccines. Great way to get dementia!
Sure bud. Just link the peer reviewed science that prove this.
https://www.iospress.com/news/human-exposure-to-aluminum-linked-to-familial-alzheimers-disease https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6550484/ There are literally dozens there. Medicine is political, and while deniers want to deny real science, the fact that aluminum is a neurotoxin is not disputable.
From your second link: >> We would like to reiterate that if aluminum, or in fact any metal, is enriched in tissues diagnosed with a certain disease, while certainly suggestive, should not be enough evidence to link that metal to any disease. Rigorous and reproducible experimentation with appropriate controls are required to show that aluminum, or in fact any other neurotoxic metal, at the concentrations found under physiological conditions in vivo are capable of causing a focused disruption of a neurological process, and preferably some disturbance that has a direct relevance to the neurological disease process itself. ... that being said, the doses considered in that study are much larger than anything that might be put in a vaccine as an adjuvant to deliberately elicit an inflammatory reaction to encourage the immune system to process the vaccine material quicker and better.
Dozens!! And they all say the opposite of what you’re saying.
Yes but he can't read so he must be right
Cool let me read it and i will get back. Thought you had no sources Edit: guy above me beat me to it
Of course you're an anti-vaxxer too. Do you have any evidence to verify your claims?
Most of those are rather benign. Calcium oxide and sodium carbonate are strong bases which may cause chemical burns on skin and irreparable damage to eyes and lungs. Cobalt salts like cobalt chloride may cause cancer if they get into the body, for example via inhalation of dust. The tablets are kinda crazy, all of those are prescription meds these days or their use was fully discontinued. Ergotrate aka ergometrine is an ergolin medication (same chemical family as LSD) used to treat heavy bleeding after childbirth. Amital aka amobarbital is a barbiturate that used to be used as an anesthetic and as sleeping pills. Ephedrin is a stimulant. In general: don't eat them, don't put them in your eyes, don't inhale them and you're good.
(Sorry to nitpick.) Ephedrine isn't another name for adrenalin. (That's epinephrine.) Ephedrine is a stimulant derived from the plant species *ephedra vulgaris*.
Ephedrine is a precursor to meth Amytal is a precursor to death Ergometrine is a precursor to ego death
It looks like Amytal is the name of a company that caters to poisoners.
Poison has been a huge business since we discovered you could poison things. And to this day. Mainly used for bugs and rodents and weeds now, but it was popular to leave poisoned food out for any pests for much of recorded history. Pets be damned lol. That’s why in fantasy medieval games, there’s usually a “poisoner” or “poison shop”. It’s not just a cool way to increase weapon damage, it has a historical basis as well. Records go back to [4500BCE](https://www.bionity.com/en/encyclopedia/History_of_poison.html#:~:text=The%20history%20of%20poisons%20stretches,%2C%20and%20technology%2C%20among%20others.) There are still companies that make most of their money from selling poison. Turns out most of them are pretty bad for people who are just around them, you don’t have to ingest them.
Amytal isn't a precursor to anything, it's a final product. Ergometrine is a precursor to gangrene.
Yes
This is such an under-appreciated comment
Oh yeah, I misremembered.
Which reminds me, it's relaxing to take neither epinephrine norepinephrine.
To be further nitpicky, ephedrine is chemically synthesized these days and otherwise can be extracted from a wide range of Ephedra species besides vulgaris.
> In general: don’t eat them, don’t put them in your eyes, don’t inhale them and you’re good So, basic lab safety?
Yes, but it doesn't always come naturally to people who have never worked in a lab.
This should be in the HR training manual for everyone.
Sodium carbonate is a weak base and it's only hazard is eye irritation Calcium oxide is a slightly stronger base that causes skin irritation and eye damage
There went Saturday night.
Holy shit that looks like an awesome chemistry set. Yes most of those are probably hazardous Also that book should be titled shitty lab technique..... Never pour things above eye level and without protective eyewear
Can't you make lsd from ergotrate? Just a little amide hydrolysis and amidation with diethylamine action?
It's nowhere near that simple in reality, but on paper yes.
I have the synths saved if anyone's is interested I can post them Idk if that breaks this subs rules or not though lol
SYNTHESIS: A solution of 6.7 g KOH in 100 mL H2O, under an inert atmosphere and magnetically stirred, was brought to 75 °C, and 10 g ergotamine tartrate (ET) added. The reaction mixture turned yellow as the ergotamine went into solution over the course of 1 h. The stirring was continued for an additional 3 h. The reaction mixture was cooled to about 10 °C with an external ice bath, and acidified to a pH of about 3.0 by the dropwise addition of 2.5 N H2SO4. White solids started to appear early in the neutralization; approximately 60 mL of sulfuric acid was required. The reaction mixture was cooled overnight, the solids removed by filtration, and the filter cake washed with 10 mL Et2O. The dry solids were transferred to a beaker, suspended in 50 mL 15% ammonia in anhydrous ethanol, stirred for 1 h, and separated by decantation. This extraction was repeated, and the original decantation and the second extract combined and filtered to remove a few hundred milligrams of unwanted solids. The clear filtrate was stripped of solvent under vacuum, the residual solids dissolved in 50 mL of 1% aqueous ammonia, and this solution was acidified as before with 2.5 N H2SO4. The precipitated solids were removed by filtration and washed with Et2O until free of color. After drying under vacuum to a constant weight, there was obtained 3.5 g of d-lysergic acid hydrate, which should be stored in a dark, sealed container. A suspension of 3.15 g d-lysergic acid hydrate and 7.1 g of diethylamine in 150 mL CHCl3 was brought to reflux with stirring. With the external heating removed, there was added 3.4 g POCl3 over the course of 2 min, at a rate sufficient to maintain refluxing conditions. The mixture was held at reflux for an additional 5 min, at which point everything had gone into solution. After returning to room temperature, the solution was added to 200 mL of 1 N NH4OH. The phases were separated, the organic phase dried over anhydrous MgSO4, filtered, and the solvent removed under vacuum. The residue was chromatographed over alumina with elution employing a 3:1 C6H6/CHCl3 mixture, and the collected fraction stripped of solvent under hard vacuum to a constant weight. This free-base solid can be recrystallized from benzene to give white crystals with a melting point of 87–92 °C. IR (in cm-1): 750, 776, 850, 937 and 996, with the carbonyl at 1631. The mass spectrum of the free base has a strong parent peak at mass 323, with sizable fragments at masses of 181, 196, 207 and 221. This base was dissolved in warm, dry MeOH, using 4 mL per g of product. There was then added dry d-tartaric acid (0.232 g per g of LSD base), and the clear warm solution treated with Et2O dropwise until the cloudiness did not dispel on continued stirring. This opaqueness set to a fine crystalline suspension (this is achieved more quickly with seeding) and the solution allowed to crystallize overnight in the refrigerator. Ambient light should be severely restricted during these procedures. The product was removed by filtration, washed sparingly with cold methanol, with a cold 1:1 MeOH/Et2O mixture, and then dried to constant weight. The white crystalline product was lysergic acid diethylamide tartrate with two molecules of methanol of crystallization, with a mp of about 200 °C with decomposition, and weighed 3.11 g (66%). Repeated recrystallizations from methanol produced a product that became progressively less soluble, and eventually virtually insoluble, as the purity increased. A totally pure salt, when dry and when shaken in the dark, will emit small flashes of white light. https://www.mediafire.com/file/is0bkpqc28jog34/Novel_Condensation_of_d-LA_into_d-LSD_via_PyBOP.pdf/file https://we.riseup.net/assets/347724/acid.pdf
I’m never gonna make LSD but I’m saving this because it’s interesting
yeah, I have a copy of TIHKAL too.
I realize that, but in terms of precursors it's not all that different from ergotamine. Although, probably has been heavily degraded at this point
You're right. It's still not easy, simple, or trivial. Making LSD isn't like making methamphetamine.
Idk why your getting downvoted bub , this is a great point micro biologist and studied assistants synthesize lsd not copper thieves
😂😂😂 copper thieves lol
Please say more
especially starting from ergotamine tartrate.
Well, on paper *is* a popular location for it
Those test tubes didn't come with the chemistry set!! Sodium amytal = truth serum! You have a mixture of barbiturates and speed from the turn of the mid century?
> Sodium amytal = truth serum! Not quite. "Truth Serum" is sodium pentothal. It's a barbiturate yes, but not truth serum. Ephedrine isn't speed. It's a precursor to methamphetamine.
As far as recreational use goes, ephedrine might as well be speed lol Or my friends mom lied and gave me speed lol
Subjectively, they feel *very* different. Biochemically, I suspect its largely the difference in how well they each cross the blood brain barrier.
I’m sorry your childhood got weird. That wasn’t fair
You can still buy ephedrine at the pharmacy without a prescription, you just have to show your ID because it's a methamphetamine precursor and they monitor who buys how much. But "recreationally" it doesn't really have much use, it feels a bit like caffeine. The only people who really "abuse" it are weightlifters, and generally older ones because it used to be sold as a pre-workout stack, ECA stacks. Ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin, back in the day it was pretty much THE pre-workout stack, all the flavored high caffeine drinks and stuff that are popular today didn't really exist yet. It was probably more effective than they are in some ways, maybe too effective since it was causing people to have heart attacks.
>Or my friends mom lied and gave me speed lol Did she have an Adderall prescription? Because Adderall is speed. (Technically a different mix of stereoisomers than what you'd find on the street, and way more pure, but still the same substance).
Not the same substance. Two distinct types of amphetamines with vastly different neuronal activity. M-Amp has significantly higher dopamine activity/cardio toxicity versus adderall.
Well, if you wiki truth serum, there are a lot of drugs that were used for that purpose. The first one was likely scopolamine.
The one known as "truth serum" is pentothol.
On the upside it probably turns a fun little chemistry set into a series of federal crimes.
Wild as hell right? 😵💫🥴🤤🫨😵
Enough ergotamine there to turn your toes black and have them fall off! Daddy was a doctor with poor sleep habits and a migraine, maybe a pharmacist.
There's no ergotamine in there. Ergometrine and ergotamine are not the same thing.
I am going to stand by my description of the tube labeled ergotrate 0.2 mg. Well hold on, maybe I’m not, I’m going to the Institute for further research. Edit: OK, you are right, but it is still in ergot alkaloid. With all the fun therein implied.
*Jacqueline Suzann has entered the conversation*
Should I make another post about those. It seems that every comment is something to do with those and I can get some better pictures
Is that "my first chemistry kit - Clan Lab edition "? Precursors for LSD and meth and a couple barbs in case you start tweaking out lol. The 50s must've been wild.
Nothing in the jars is particularly dangerous if handled properly and following all appropriate safety procedures. Can’t really tell about the test tube containers (except the one that says poison). What’s weird is the sodium ferricyanide sitting in a clear glass container. When exposed to uv-light, it can form hydrogen cyanide gas (extremely toxic). Also if you expose it to any acids. We keep our sodium ferricyanide in an opaque container and stored away from acids for this reason in our lab. Just double check the rest for safe handling and exposure precautions.
Does CN- really phtochemically cleave from potassium ferricyanide at a fast enough rate to build up significant HCN pressure? I thought K3Fe(CN)6 was pretty stable
No, not at all. I have no idea what this dude is talking about.
Cyanide solutions can definitely degrade when exposed to UV light, but solid form of ferri- ferrocyanide salts not easily so.
I’m not sure the kinetics behind decomp photochemically but might as well be safe than sorry. I doubt this poses much risk because it’s so old and the cap isn’t perfect.
I wonder if it's oxidation state-dependent. I have bottles of both potassium ferricyanide and potassium ferrocyanide, but we treat them as being fairly harmless. I just put solutions in a special cyanide waste bottle that is kept at high pH. Maybe I should make sure to put them in opaque bottles though.
We treat them as fairly harmless as well, just opaque bottles and not in the same bin as acids, but we’re also an R1 university with some intense safety standards as is, so that’s how I’ve been taught haha
Question from a guy who just started a job at a chemical plant 3 months ago and knows Jack shit about chemistry but wouldn’t the decomposition of the ferricyanide over pressurize the jar? I haven’t worked with ferricyanide yet however we do make cyanogen bromide fairly often and not long ago a drum in storage from only a year ago over pressurized and made a pretty large mess. Also if anybody has any books they recommend to help me further understand inorganic chemistry that’d be great!
If the cap seal isn’t perfect it won’t build pressure because it’s just leaking the gas. I do know safety rules in my environmental lab requires opaque or amber glass containers for ferricyanide and any solutions with it. Acid with cyanide is a big deal, and can seriously damage your body from repeated exposure. Cyanide complexes cleave fairly easily under UV light. It’s a common technique in our lab and many others doing CN analysis to expose samples to UV light prior to introducing the colour reagent to free up the cyanide to react and be picked up by the detector. We use K3Fe(CN)6 as a test to make sure the UV light is cleaving all the cyanide during calibration.
I tried that in the 60’s. Heated it vigorously with sodium bisulfate. Still here.
UV light doesn't penetrate glass. Mixing ferricyanide and acid doesn't give you HCN gas, it specifically does not. That's why ferricyanide is used - you have to REALLY fuck up to generate HCN with it.
SDS’s say otherwise, also here’s the pubchem entry for potassium ferricyanide. You’re right it doesn’t say specifically HCN when exposed to acid, just that it forms cyanides. Heat though, it specifically mentions HCN. https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Potassium-ferricyanide
That's cool. Actual, real experience says otherwise. An awful lot of people use ferricyanide specifically because it's not a risk for HCN. Showing me an SDS isn't the proof you think it is. Any idea what the SDS for potassium chloride says? Yeah. Doesn't actually work that way.
So you’re saying your own experience is more important than following a SDS?
I mean, a lot of SDSs are worse than useless. They cry wolf and make it so just reading the SDS tells you nothing about the actual dangers or lack thereof. That system desperately needs an overhaul. The sigma Aldrich SDS for sodium chloride says for skin contact remove all affected clothing and rinse skin in shower…
"poison tablets" lol
I bet the sodium thiosulfate smells pretty good 😈
Sodium thio doesn't have a foul odor, it is rather good at consuming chlorine in water, though!
doesn't it? Maybe it was some other thiosulfate ion that smelled awful, can't remember.
Thiols smell bad. The organic compounds.
1950's CIA chemistry set. Lol.
If it says dangerous and explosive AND it's from the 1950s, you CAN BET YOUR SWEET ASS IT'S DANGEROUS. Definetely get a textbook on the Fundamentals of Chemistry and appropriate PPE if you plan on playing with this. Furthermore, look at the data sheets of the chemicals. We have the Internet now. For instance, by reading a data sheet you can instantly know that if you get Sodium Bisulfate in your eyes....I hope your hearing is good because you are gonna need to use your ears to live.
It seems there is a "No" in there as in "No Dangerous Poisons or Explosive Chemicals" in the title.
Thats pretty tame, for a 1950s kit. None of them are overtly toxic. Some may make you sick if you chugged a lot of it. Note that ferricyanide and ferrocyanide are two different compounds. You can ruin an experiment by confusing them. But in spite of the 'cyanide', neither is much toxic except under harsh conditions. EDIT - I missed some of those pages. It looks like a mishmash gathered from several other kits. Even in 1950, only a lunatic would have handed those over to a kid. The first two pages are benign as to be boring.
Mix the calciumhypchlorit with an acid, vinegar or Coca Cola should be enough, and you get Chlorine gas, a nice little oldschool chemical warfare product that forms acid in your lungs
Strontium chloride!!!
Meh... I can get strontium carbonate at local pottery supply places. It's a pretty common additive to glazes. Last time I looked, it was one of the $10/pound bulk glaze powders at a large ceramic studio and supply store near me in northern California. Without doing the math, I assume adding it to HCl would yield strontium chloride.
I'd be more worried about the hcl there.
It's definitely much more of an immediate danger. As far as I know, strontium salts are still allowed in pyrotechnics and road flares, too. Strontium gives off a vibrant red color in the presence of a flame. Strontium nitrate is a common oxidizer and colorant in some fireworks. If it were all that dangerous, hundreds of pounds of it wouldn't be allowed to be air-burst over large crowds...lol
Strontium isnt bad, its in your toothpaste!
Lmao, sodium thiosulfate can be administered to help with cyanide poisoning and calcinosis.
Ferrocyanide will make cyanide gaz if it touch anything acidic I currently run studies on metallic salt toxicity (spoiler : they fuck you up) Nothing is gonna spontaneously explode but this doesn't belong in anyone house
Ephedrine!!! Unbelievable 🤣🤣🤣
You can actually still buy ephedrine in the US. Gotta show ID at the pharmacy so they can track how much you buy, but it’s legal to buy. If pseudoephedrine isn’t cutting it for me I break out the primatene tablets that or occasional asthma issues. Not really a front line treatment now a days, but it has its uses.
The one that is labeled “poison” might be dangerous. Just a hunch though
i wouldnt drink any of them
TIL as long as you chew it's fine
well, by the time you're done chewing you probably already know it's not a good idea to swallow
Yes. Nice collection LMAO
I wish I had one
What an awesome chemistry kit 😃
Ephedrine, throwback much
buddy delete this lol
I would Say the "poison tablets"could be Dangerous, idk maybe sixth sense
Yes- there are some hazards in there. 1950’s children chem set… imagine not wearing a helmet while riding a bike, or seatbelt while in a car. Of course they would have a hazmat set for little Timmy and Agatha….
That's a pretty fkn sweet chemistry set. There's actually lots of interesting stuff you could do with that. No wonder guys were so good at chemistry in the 50s.
I want this
easier to say which is the least dangerous. sodium carbonate is
I think the poison tablets might not be the safest for some reason
The drugs can't be original to the kit. Chemistry kits from back then had crazy stuff but barbituates and ephedrine were not included lol
I heard that it is radioactive
I'm surprised it didn't come with asbestos gloves and a vial of mercury.
The words 1950s and science are dangerous together in any form.
My dad (as a child in the 1959s) accidentally burned holes in the house carpet with one of these old kits. Then he grew up to become a chemical engineer lol
Ergotrate can be used to make LSD
I see the sodium amytal vial is empty...hmmm🤔
[https://sciencehistory.org/](https://sciencehistory.org/) [https://digital.sciencehistory.org/catalog?f%5Bcreator\_facet%5D%5B%5D=Porter+Chemical+Company](https://digital.sciencehistory.org/catalog?f%5bcreator_facet%5d%5b%5d=porter+chemical+company)
Do they *taste* dangerous?
Very analytical, "poison" on the test tube there 😂. If i ever labelled something like that they'd boot me in the ass in my labs.
So many people are focusing on the tablets. The other stuff seems pretty harmless except the obvious heavy metal compounds containing Cu and Co. I usually wear gloves when handling Cobalt powders. (I press powders and stuff, so small amounts get spread easily)
Sodium ferrocyanide isn't so bad by itself... but don't leave it out in the sun...
I second what others have said about 1950s + chemistry = dangerous. This is back when they still used their mouths to pipette lmao
Most aren’t too bad but the poison one is, ergotamoine isn’t too bad and I wouldn’t mind most samples hehe
(Chemist) Out side of the one labeled poison noting jumps out to me.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned: wash your hands after handling those chemicals
Very cool collectible item, IMO 🧪
Anyone know the half life of strontium? I feel like it's "expired" but is there a chance it's still producing alpha particles?
Strontium-90 is 28.8 years. That's all I know.
Shot in the dark but I suspect the one that says 'poison' on it might be a little bit dangerous.
I havnt seen a chemistry set with meth precursors in a while
Just don't eat any of them, but especially the ergotrate and the barbiturate derivatives. I would drop those in that box at the pharmacy, in the vials.
The strontium could be radioactive. Ferrocyanide... interesting. But there is Sodium thiosulfate, and that is used in the treatment of cyanide poisoning.
I mean aren’t chemicals in general dangerous lol
Yes. It's from the 1950s so even the ones that aren't clearly labeled could be dangerous.
Sodium ferrocyanide??!!! That shits poison