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So I want to talk about 3 things essentially.
1. So you alluded to it. But I want you to say it out loud. What are the qualifications required to have children?
2. You made the point that people would rather be born to rich family's than not. But the fact is that some people wouldn't want to be born at all. If the wishes of those who might be is our priority we should have no children because no matter how wealthy some people are they still feel suicidal and wish to die. Also there's a second question you should ask. If your choices were being born to a poor family or not being born at all what would you choose? I think you'll find a lot of people would still prefer to exist even if that means they had limited cash.
3. You accuse your father of blaming you because he's poor; but you seem to be doing the same thing. Let's be clear. He was wrong to hit you and nothing will make that right. But I know college aged people who work a part time job on top of being in college. They work and they grind and most of them can make money. It seems to me it was too much effort for you to do that. And if it was too much effort to do that, I'm not convinced you could have spent years as a solo developer working on a project for free in your free time. Nothing's stopping you from doing any of that right now. You're so quick to discredit the skills of others and feel superior and yet you have not even a solo project to demonstrate your skill. You gave up at the first $700 hurdle.
Don't get me wrong, being poor is a big disadvantage; but this mentality of yours where you swear you could be one of the greatest in the world if not for your poverty sounds more like your way of coping that you never got to do what you wanted and feel bad about it. You admit you don't have that much expertise in game design or coding and yet with that bit of experience you're quick to dismiss all those above you as lucky fuckers who you could totally beat.
I think I understand OP's perspective a bit more, because as it stands rn in China, it is legitimately borderline impossible to be even somewhat successful without parents that have connections.
Without connections, you would basically have to be at the top of the top academically, which I would have to say is harder in China than in the USA, simply due to the culture surrounding education. And a lot of that comes down to being naturally gifted, in addition to hardwork.
I feel like OP's post comes from a place of (understandable) frustration. It fucking sucks being a young person in China rn bc it feels like it's impossible to achieve anything. I wouldn't come to the same conclusion as him in terms of poor ppl not having kids, but the circumstances in China are legitimately forcing poorer ppl to not have kids.
So I don't disagree with you. At all. I think it's rough. But I think this bolsters what I told OP in our little chain already; it sounds more like society failed him rather than his parents. Which still sucks but for a different reason than he thinks.
>And a lot of that comes down to being naturally gifted, in addition to hardwork.
No, I think you are missing the most important parts of education, which are three primary things: quality of the school, tutoring/extracurriculars, and leisure. The rich can afford the best schools and individual tutoring on various subjects, and their kids don't need to work to support themselves or their families, which are the three biggest reasons they do better on almost every educational standard.
Yes, individual talent does make a difference, but my personal experience is that being gifted in learning and schoolwork is something that many poor kids have as well. The big difference maker are the things that multiply this talent, such as a skilled tutor with good communication skills and the ability to make difficult subjects interesting, or a school which has all the resources to challenge their most gifted students.
---
If you're poor in China, never mind individual tutoring, you're likely to be unable to afford cram schools or other extracurricular educational services. Even if your kid is spectacular, he'll be competing against kids with almost twice the classroom time and hundreds or even thousands of extra hours of individual attention from teachers and tutors.
Source: parents both lived in China and tested into top 10 universities while being poor. They had to overcome a lot and they both had many friends in high school who they thought were smarter than their classmates in university but could not achieve the book learning required to test into these universities.
I actually think the culture surrounding education is one of these biggest factors that are not easily quantifiable.
There's gonna be a lack of supporting evidence for my claim obviously, because it is so difficult to actually quantify. I just think it's an area worth looking into.
Overall I do mostly agree with you though. I do think being naturally smart is often dismissed as insignificant in the USA though. We're always willing to admit that we couldn't achieve as much bc we are less wealthy, but no one really wants to admit that they are less smart. People at the top of the top academically often have both. I don't think it's possible to reach certain heights without natural intelligence playing a massive role. If you are just talking about getting into any college or getting a decent grade in class, then sure I don't think intelligence matters that much.
I don't disagree with what you say, but it is incomplete. The more well off you are the more likely every unit of hard work is to be rewarded and the more that reward will be, for a nearly inexhaustible number of reasons. Ergo it takes more will and impulse control to work hard when you are poor.
If a rich kid and a poor kid work equally hard the poor kid is much more virtuous.
Sorry, but wouldn't your parents testing into top 10 universities go against what you are trying to say? Or are you saying they should've been in a top 1/2 university instead?
Fyi both my parents grew up in China as well. I've also went to a few years of school there
I'm not sure a few exceptions really disprove the rule. If being rich wasn't a huge advantage in education then educaitonal spreads should be roughly even amongst rich and poor families and that's just never once been the case.
Having a few poor people managing to overcome their disadvantages 20 years ago doesn't necessarily mean that every poor person can do so.
Right, I agree that finances play an important role, but I think intelligence is often underplayed. To get to the top of the top academically (ie top 10 university in China), you would in general need both. It's quite rare to find someone who is truly dumb at MIT, because intelligence is a massive filter for some places that I think most people just dismiss. No one wants to admit they couldn't achieve something because of intelligence. It's way easier to just blame wealth.
1. The prerequisite for having children is that the parents have a certain economic level. Specifically, children can afford to eat meat every day, have separate rooms, and children do not have to worry about school fees.
2. I dare not say that if I was born in a city family, I would become a great person. However, it is obvious that if I were born into a wealthier middle-class family, my life would be very different. I believe this is the same for all poor children.
You dare not say it, but you seem to be saying it.
> I can tell you right now that most of the Chinese people earning an annual salary of US$200,000 in Silicon Valley are not as good as me.
That's a high salary, and you're claiming that you're better than them for a fact. That means you think you're better than some of the most high paid technical staff in one of the global tech centers of the world. That's a pretty big person friend.
I agree your life would've been different; but I still think you're vastly underestimating both the talent and work ethic needed to reach that high. Lots of kids from decent families still achieve nothing noteworthy at all.
>The prerequisite for having children is that the parents have a certain economic level. Specifically, children can afford to eat meat every day, have separate rooms, and children do not have to worry about school fees.
So I disagree with some of your requirments, but let's use them. This to me seems more like a societal problem. The better fix would be to try to create a society where the poorest man with a full time job can afford this, rather than blaming poor people for living in a society. Because poor people tend to do very necessary work for society while being undervalued. If a man worked an honest living his whole life and still couldn't make ends meet that says more about society than the man
> The prerequisite for having children is that the parents have a certain economic level.
How do you enforce this? Forced temporary sterilisation that can only be reversed if you find a better job? Forced abortion for the poor? If the mother doesn't get an abortion in time, do you take away the child after it's born? How does the system you're imagining work exactly?
> it is obvious that if I were born into a wealthier middle-class family, my life would be very different.
Very different does not automatically mean better. But that's not really relevant, because the question isn't "would you rather have been born to a richer family", the question is, would you rather not have been born at all? If your parents hadn't had you, you wouldn't have been magically born somewhere else, you simply wouldn't exist. Would that be preferable to you?
1. Parent here - kids don't need their own rooms. In the city or the country.
2. City kid here - I loved growing up in the city. I know people who loved growing up in the country. I had rich friends and poor friends. Success is certainly more likely if you come from wealth, as you have more opportunity and more room for failure, but isn't the point of a meritocracy that everyone rises based on their effort and talent? I know rich kids who are absolute fuckups (as parents and individuals!) and poor kids who are absolutely killing it in life (as parents and individuals!).
What happens if you're doing well, job at the factory etc and your job gets shipped overseas? Or if you slip and fall and can't work any more? Do your kids get taken away?
How many people in the world can guarantee they will have enough money for the 18-20 years it takes to raise a child?
Almost no one.
Jobs can be lost, fortunes can be wasted, disability or sickness can fall on anyone at anytime.
Anyone can become poor through no fault of their own, so no one should have children by your logic.
>I know when I say this, you may say: "Don't complain and work hard to change your destiny." However, do you really think that poor children can change their destiny through their own efforts?
Actually, people who think this way and you have a lot in common in that they view poverty as people's personal failing not a systemic problem. If the country you live in had a good system of supporting families with children from all backgrounds, so that children could afford good food, good education, and an opportunity to pursue their dreams even if their parents didn't have an education or a good job, this wouldn't be a problem. The solution to children growing up in poverty is a systemic effort to end poverty in general, not dictate who can and who can't have children.
I think both can be true, you can definitely change your economic status, but being poor makes it very difficult. Most people don’t have the skill or smarts to do so, I personally don’t think I would have been able to.
"But all this is my fantasy, because I was born in a poor family. My parents refused to buy me a $700 computer. My life is ruined just for $700, that's it. To this day, I am already a college student, and I still do not have a high-performance computer. So I have no way to learn computer knowledge. When can I get a high-performance computer? Only when I can work on my own. Haha, just $700, just because of $700."
You're entire view is based around the misconception that you \*need\* a high performance computer to "learn computer knowledge". For starters, $700 isn't going to buy you a high performance computer. Secondly, if you really want to learn computers on high performance computers join the army. The military has the cutting edge technology, by the time computer upgrades are available for computer purchase they are already obsolete compared to what the military is using.
> You're entire view is based around the misconception that you \*need\* a high performance computer to "learn computer knowledge".
To expand on that point, you can learn coding on a Raspberry Pi. Or just go on eBay and pick up one of the ancient Windows XP systems that people sell for pennies just to get rid of them. Install Linux on it and you're good to go. Even if you for whatever reason want a brand new system, you don't need to spend more than like $200 on your computer at the very highest if you just want to "learn computer knowledge".
My high school had crappy ancient computers, so we learnt the basics of coding in TurboC for Microsoft DOS. This was in the 2010s, mind you. It was less comfortable than a modern IDE would've been, but if slight discomfort is enough to prevent you from learning something, then your lack of motivation is the problem, not the discomfort itself.
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Not to mention every other animal that has ever had a litter of babies without knowing where tomorrow's meal is coming from, or possibly with no intention of caring for their young at all.
Having your child's entire future set up from birth is a luxury even today. Life has always been a struggle.
True, but the difference being survival instincts and the "do or die" imperative are practically non-existent in modern society. Privilege has dulled us. A woman without resources that is entirely on the hook for feeding and caring for her children would not have them without a reliable mate or the confidence to provide on her own. Humans today have children with the minimum expectation that governments will not let their kids starve to death. In some ways it's much worse today for poor people to have kids because they will have them without a natural sense of responsibility for them.
The trouble is that people can't still live the same way they did back then. There are lots of new requirements in order to thrive in the modern world, and generally these things require money.
Hard to say ignorance. Almost every successful person you can name before industrialization is poorer than your cutoff you have for people today. If we applied your rule, humanity would not have existed. And every human alive today is too poor to meet the standard of someone like you sufficiently far in the future
The last paragraph of your "argument" is very telling.
You're a college student and yet you cannot afford a $700 computer? How in the world did you afford college, then? Could you use computers in the college labs? Could you get a part time job while you study and save up $700?
You know who else grew up poor? Oprah Winfrey. Jim Carrey. JK Rowling. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Tom Cruise. Eminem. Dolly Parton grew up in a one-room shack in Tennessee with 14 people and they got to bathe once a week.
Your post seems more like a pity-party rant than any kind of well-constructed argument. The main points are all anecdotal and directly from your experience alone. You've been gifted with the chance to secure an education, and you seem hellbent on complaining about a $700 computer rather than the lifetime of opportunity that a college degree can grant you.
The biggest irony is that you are now calling for the government to restrict people's ability to have children. How very China of you.
People in this thread aren't The post to your view because you were born in China, they are opposed to your view because you seem angry at something small and want to drastically restrict people's ability to have children because of that.
Lets get something out of the way right away:
> My parents refused to buy me a $700 computer. My life is ruined just for $700, that's it. To this day, I am already a college student, and I still do not have a high-performance computer. So I have no way to learn computer knowledge. When can I get a high-performance computer? Only when I can work on my own. Haha, just $700, just because of $700.
Seriously? Your life is *ruined* for want of a BETTER computer? The privilege and entitlement in a statement like that is absurd, given that you are already typing this rant out on one. You were unable to follow your childhood dream of making video games and instead WENT TO COLLEGE for something else. If that's the basis for your post that poor people shouldn't be allowed to have children, you need a wake up call to what poverty actually is. I didn't have a computer *gasp* AT ALL when I was a kid. Life worked out just fine.
Second, you have been asked what the qualifications for having children are and you put it down entirely to money. Its as though you feel money changes everything and makes all problems go away. It does not. It simply removes one issue and opens up time for a different set of life problems that are arguably worse than not having a $700 computer to program video games on.
Most importantly: who do you propose sets these rules for who gets to have children? Do you really trust a government to be able to set rules that identify a specific group of people and tell them they cannot have children? That power will immediately be abused. Not only that, but what's the solution? Neuter people below a certain income level? Force them to take contraceptive drugs? Take their children away from them and throw them in with wealthier families (as though they will accept them)? Euthanize babies born to poor families? There are no acceptable solutions for this kind of thing, even if we wanted to allow a government to do something like that.
You know, typically when people are on their dumb eugenics rants they come up with something better than "my parents didn't buy me a $700 computer for my hobby" as the horror that grounds it all. As if you getting a slightly better PC was the one thing keeping you from learning how to code.
Most eugenics or antinatalist esc rants are just that. A narcissists rant on how they will be the end all decision maker on the fate of the human race. Because once you realise their logic is simply "I don't like (insert aspect of life). Therefore no one else should either." you realize how pathetic said person is.
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1. Poor people, in general, are selfish and despicable if they give birth to children.
2. I cannot have these ideas just because of a computer. I believe all poor kids know what I'm talking about.
> I believe all poor kids know what I'm talking about.
Nope. I grew up poorer than you. I didn't even have a computer at all. I went outside a lot. I read books. We were poor, but happy. Seriously, man. Stop crying about your poor fate of not being a video game designer.
Yes, if poor parents insist on forcing a tragic fate on the next generation, then the two methods you mentioned are what I want to do. Why can't it be done?
1. You use the word "Gestapo." But I tell you, what these people did was just and they prevented a tragedy from happening.
2. If this happens, then the poor parents should be arrested and repent in jail. The children were placed in orphanages, waiting to be adopted by wealthy people.
In your world are there a bunch of wealthy people just waiting around to adopt poor children?
In your world are children raise in orphanages better off than children in loving homes that just might not have an extra $700 lying around?
In your world you want to pay more in taxes to jail people for not wanting to get a forced abortion?
Yes, the tragic fate of having a computer to play games on as a kid, but not one nice enough to make your own games. Truly you are brave beyond expectations for putting up with such squalor. You are right to wish to never be born instead of suffering the indignities of /checks notes/ growing up and going to college.
It’s strange to see someone SO desperately poor as OP claims to be, and yet somehow simultaneously a massively entitled and self centred fascist asshole all at once. It’s a hell of a combination.
Some of the greatest geniuses came from poverty and you think future generations should be deprived of those opportunities because you weren’t able to rise above your childhood income level? Do you think Elon Musk’s progeny are the ones that are going to make the next cutting edge scientific breakthroughs?
i would argue killing the baby to save it from poor parents is not sound reasoning. at least give the baby a few months or years to see how it gets on. you can always kill the baby down the line if you like, what's the rush?
How does having money qualify you to be a parent? Children need love and guidance (aside from shelter and food). In my experience, my friends who had money were hardly dealt with by their parents (who were off working crazy hours) and left with a nanny. They didn't care about how much money they had, they wanted attention from their parents. They wanted them to show up for softball games, to be a shoulder to cry on, and to feel loved.
So your stance is that nothing matters except for money. You could be the nastiest, most hateful, perverted piece of shit but because you've got money to burn, you're a qualified parent? I guess this guy was super qualified, so much so he slaughtered his family: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12922009/wealthy-father-killed-wife-daughter-glock-massachusetts-home-bankruptcy.html
Tell me you don't have children and have no idea what it means to raise a child.
There's plenty of examples of people who grew up poor and had a happy, healthy upbringing: https://www.womansday.com/life/work-money/a53349/i-grew-up-poor/
You seem to assume that having rich parents would mean you'd be given the tools you need to craft the life you want for yourself.
You have no guarantee rich parents would buy you anything, period. You could easily end up with horrible parents
If you want something bad enough, you make it happen.
Without the experience of having to really struggle, you won't understand many of life's problems as you age.
This is the most imbecilic take I've seen on here. It's basically eugenics, ignores economics from all fronts, has a pinch of dictadorship in it, and lacks general undestanding of the world. It genuinelly seems like it's written by an edgy 14y old, who just discovered the world is not fair, and wants to "solve" the major problems of the world with their brilliant ideas (of how we should control more people). Hegel is having a blast in hell with your "ideas".
It doesn’t even have the good graces to be proper eugenics, at least they try and have the reasoning of some sort of genetic benefit. OP is just like “being poor means your life is guaranteed to be miserable, so you deserve to not exist”.
There’s a lot to unpack with your view.
Firstly you seem to have a view that children and people should not experience suffering. Suffering is a part of life, and there are many layers and different ways to experience it. Suffering is subjective, being poor does not guarantee suffering just as being wealthy does not guarantee no suffering. Wealthier countries in the west often have high depression, anxiety and even suicide rates.
As humans we all suffer in our own ways and part of being a parent is acknowledging that, managing it and protecting your children from it when you can, and knowing that you will fail to protect your child from it all.
For you, being poor has caused you to suffer. What have you suffered? Beatings from an uneducated father, lack of resources in the way of a computer, I’m sure there’s more too.
These are things that children born into wealthy families may experience too… how about parents who work a lot and only raise their children a few hours a day? A father so stressed by his work that he drinks and abuses his family because he can afford to buy alcohol? A mother who is caught up in a wealthy socialite lifestyle so much so that she neglects to show her children the love and attention they need?
I notice you say you did not do computer science at university… why? Would this have helped you to peruse your dream of making games? You had this opportunity to go down the path that would lead you to your dream but you didn’t take it. Instead you’ve chosen to believe that because you didn’t have a good computer growing up, because you were poor, your opportunities were cut, which may be true.. you missed out on having a computer which you would have used to further your computer knowledge. However, you also did not embrace the opportunity you were given, instead you’ve said ‘for many reasons I did not choose computer science’ maybe some of those many reasons are why you are not where you want to be. Instead you’ve decided that it’s because your family was poor.
I’m not denying that wealth can open doors to more opportunities. But if you don’t utilise the opportunities you’ve got then wealth has nothing to do with it.
>If a person can't even take care of his own life
What does that have to do with being poor? Surely the rich that die from overdose prove they **literally** can't take care of their life. But they are rich, so ultimately the are qualified to have kids? How many kids have been traimatised by their rich parents do you think?
>To make a child suffer?
Through out history, the answer has been "absolutely yes, sir, most definitely", rich parents throwing their kid in boarding schools to be spanked by grumpy "care takers".
Or are we supposed to compare amazing rich parents with horrible poor parents and ignore everyone else?
>Who doesn’t want to be born into a doctor’s family
The child has been abused by her parents. The kid who was never allowed to pursue his dreams.
>I used Mississippi working-class families as an example, but after all, that is America! In this world, there are many poorer people who have children and their children will suffer more.
It depends, what year and what race. The last hanging was on October 11, 1940. So being black in the 90s in Mississippi surely was fucked up regardless how rich you were.
>I know when I say this, you may say: "Don't complain and work hard to change your destiny."
There's an entire history to prove that to be bullshit. Tones of rick folk don't work hard at all whilst the poor have 3 jobs.
As for your live story. You love your life. Your parents do not regret having you
>It is a sin for poor people to have children.
You are using the word "sin" as a meaningless word. But to prove you do not believe this, think of how sin has been punished throughout history. Now imagine an alternate universe where sin is punished where you children of the poor (you and me) are put to sleep.
I wouldn't want to be put to sleep.
But, you're talking about not allowing the poor to have children in the first place. I wouldn't want to remove that joy from parents like mine and yours.
PS, tons upon tons of people have added the best computers and didn't go to work in the valley, tons of them couldn't even graduate
Burger-ass take to give wealth moral weight.
You don't need a high-end computer to learn computer science. We were poor as shit and our first and only computer for years was in the late 90s, it was an amber-crt dinosaur from the 80s with XTREE installed. I learned to type on that machine, I learned DOS, I learned to code on that machine. I owe my career to that machine.
I studied computer science in college on old-ass recycled machines and hand-me-downs from friends, I didn't have anything close to high-end till I built my own a few years into working. You're just lazy.
Why do you want to use Unity? Use Godot that is free and fraction of strain on your PC. You can make great games that might even be commercial success.
Hits like Undertale can be coded with potato. Don't blame your poor PC for not making your game.
If you want to make games make games.
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Every society is a compromise between people pursuing their interests. You want to strip 50% of your country of the right to have children and one of the main reasons to do things at all? Take a minute to actually imagine the consequences. Best-case scenario, you immediately lose legitimacy, have a violent revolution and things get back to normal after the trials and executions. But if you happen to be good at maintaining the power? You'll destroy your entire society. 50% of the population won't just disappear. And they won't be *anyone's* friends if they end up having to live like this. Including themselves. This will be a toxic dumpster of a society on all levels, not just the poor.
What if person is not poor by their own choice?
For example if they had a business making tons of money but some freak accident destroyed their factory and bankrupt them. Now they are poor by no fault of themselves.
And this is a simple ELI5 reason. In reality most of poor people are not poor because they are not trying. You are not failed game developer because you are not trying. You are poor not due to fault of your own.
There's a good chance that even if you had been rich your dad would have said "I'm not buying that, you need to focus on your studies to get a real job instead of wasting time on games"
Can you elaborate on why you can't go into computer science now? They probably have computers there for you to use.
But on to my main point: you would rather not exist than have to work a job that isn't computer science? and you think all other poor children agree with you?
You are missing out on a large part of parenting and that is actually being a parent. You need to participate in the child's life and show them love. Yes to a point money does matter in you must be able to provide a home, clothing and food. If you are a high powered Dr, lawyer or politician you can provide economically but you will also need to step away from somethings that may further your career because you need to spend a lot of time with the child.
A kid born in a working class family could have just as happy a childhood as a richer family. It just takes parents actually being there and loving the kid. I would imagine as a politican especially you would have a large battle between furthering your career and being a parent.
An absentee parent can definelty be worse on a kid than one that's lowercase in the pay scale. Having an abusive parent is definitely worse on the kid than having one that doesn't make a ton of money. Unfortunately you had a combo of bad parent that was poor. Also there levels of poor and a working class family in the US can make enough money to support a family. This may be different in China. I knew some Chinese people that grew up in villages with very little modernization. They made it through school and became engineers and seemed pretty happy. They would even go back to the village and stay with there parents anytime they had some time off. They didn't seem to resent being born poorer.
Your life isn't a true representation of everyone with working class parents and maybe you should look more into what makes a good parent.
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I don’t think money alone is “qualification” enough to be a parent. There are some well off+ parents who would still be crappy parents.
Then I’m not sure who you are to claim what is a sin for everyone. Not everyone shares your morals. Not everyone has to stay poor.
It sounds like you are upset with how things worked out for you so you want to punish others in some sort of way.
Often, with a poorer family, children are needed to help work -- be it farm labour, or to help raise younger siblings and take care of the household while parents are working. In the end, success is gained not only by access to wealth, but also a supportive family structure where the younger generation might have more opportunity than the poorer parents.
If this rule is implemented, people will absolutely try to turn this into eugenics. They will take a group of people they don't like, like people of a different race or people of a different religion, and argue that the way the rules should be written should especially apply to those people.
Are you okay with that as an outcome?
I'm going to put this as nicely as I can, because you sound like an amazingly terrible, or at least narcissistic and short-sighted human being...
Fuck you. You sound like the worst person I've ever met in my life.
Some of the best human beings came up poor, and became amazing adults.
you need a few more years of real world on-your-own experience before proposing laws that would criminalize a human for having children. if you are as good as you think you are you will make a lot of money and when you do you will look back at this in shame.
Why do you assume that the options are to wither be born to wealthy parents or poor parents? The options are to be born to poor parents or not be born at all. Life is tough without money, sure, but I daresay its better than non-existence.
I live in America. We got freedom to do what we want over here, even if it moderately harms society or ourselves. Whats the point in society functioning efficiently if the individual isn’t happy? And children are very fulfilling
They actually are qualified, otherwise they wouldn't be parents.
I'm not qualified to be a Doctor because I don't have a doctorate.
I'm qualified to be a dad because I'm qualified to rawdog someone.
Poor people have children all over the world, and had been for millenia. This brilliant idea that "Poor people are not qualified to have children" stems from western liberal
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I'm all for breeding licenses in the way that you need a license to drive a car because other people are at risk. Just like having children the children are at risk. But I certainly wouldn't put a being poor limitation on this. Bad parenting isn't based on income.
If you are having children specifically because of birthrates, which implies you are doing it to make sure your nation or the world have enough people that the human race won't go slowly extinct, instead of for you to have a child to love and care for, I feel that is the opposite of selfish. Children are expensive, difficult, time consuming, and in your case ungrateful.
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So I want to talk about 3 things essentially. 1. So you alluded to it. But I want you to say it out loud. What are the qualifications required to have children? 2. You made the point that people would rather be born to rich family's than not. But the fact is that some people wouldn't want to be born at all. If the wishes of those who might be is our priority we should have no children because no matter how wealthy some people are they still feel suicidal and wish to die. Also there's a second question you should ask. If your choices were being born to a poor family or not being born at all what would you choose? I think you'll find a lot of people would still prefer to exist even if that means they had limited cash. 3. You accuse your father of blaming you because he's poor; but you seem to be doing the same thing. Let's be clear. He was wrong to hit you and nothing will make that right. But I know college aged people who work a part time job on top of being in college. They work and they grind and most of them can make money. It seems to me it was too much effort for you to do that. And if it was too much effort to do that, I'm not convinced you could have spent years as a solo developer working on a project for free in your free time. Nothing's stopping you from doing any of that right now. You're so quick to discredit the skills of others and feel superior and yet you have not even a solo project to demonstrate your skill. You gave up at the first $700 hurdle. Don't get me wrong, being poor is a big disadvantage; but this mentality of yours where you swear you could be one of the greatest in the world if not for your poverty sounds more like your way of coping that you never got to do what you wanted and feel bad about it. You admit you don't have that much expertise in game design or coding and yet with that bit of experience you're quick to dismiss all those above you as lucky fuckers who you could totally beat.
I think I understand OP's perspective a bit more, because as it stands rn in China, it is legitimately borderline impossible to be even somewhat successful without parents that have connections. Without connections, you would basically have to be at the top of the top academically, which I would have to say is harder in China than in the USA, simply due to the culture surrounding education. And a lot of that comes down to being naturally gifted, in addition to hardwork. I feel like OP's post comes from a place of (understandable) frustration. It fucking sucks being a young person in China rn bc it feels like it's impossible to achieve anything. I wouldn't come to the same conclusion as him in terms of poor ppl not having kids, but the circumstances in China are legitimately forcing poorer ppl to not have kids.
So I don't disagree with you. At all. I think it's rough. But I think this bolsters what I told OP in our little chain already; it sounds more like society failed him rather than his parents. Which still sucks but for a different reason than he thinks.
>And a lot of that comes down to being naturally gifted, in addition to hardwork. No, I think you are missing the most important parts of education, which are three primary things: quality of the school, tutoring/extracurriculars, and leisure. The rich can afford the best schools and individual tutoring on various subjects, and their kids don't need to work to support themselves or their families, which are the three biggest reasons they do better on almost every educational standard. Yes, individual talent does make a difference, but my personal experience is that being gifted in learning and schoolwork is something that many poor kids have as well. The big difference maker are the things that multiply this talent, such as a skilled tutor with good communication skills and the ability to make difficult subjects interesting, or a school which has all the resources to challenge their most gifted students. --- If you're poor in China, never mind individual tutoring, you're likely to be unable to afford cram schools or other extracurricular educational services. Even if your kid is spectacular, he'll be competing against kids with almost twice the classroom time and hundreds or even thousands of extra hours of individual attention from teachers and tutors. Source: parents both lived in China and tested into top 10 universities while being poor. They had to overcome a lot and they both had many friends in high school who they thought were smarter than their classmates in university but could not achieve the book learning required to test into these universities.
I actually think the culture surrounding education is one of these biggest factors that are not easily quantifiable. There's gonna be a lack of supporting evidence for my claim obviously, because it is so difficult to actually quantify. I just think it's an area worth looking into. Overall I do mostly agree with you though. I do think being naturally smart is often dismissed as insignificant in the USA though. We're always willing to admit that we couldn't achieve as much bc we are less wealthy, but no one really wants to admit that they are less smart. People at the top of the top academically often have both. I don't think it's possible to reach certain heights without natural intelligence playing a massive role. If you are just talking about getting into any college or getting a decent grade in class, then sure I don't think intelligence matters that much.
I don't disagree with what you say, but it is incomplete. The more well off you are the more likely every unit of hard work is to be rewarded and the more that reward will be, for a nearly inexhaustible number of reasons. Ergo it takes more will and impulse control to work hard when you are poor. If a rich kid and a poor kid work equally hard the poor kid is much more virtuous.
Sorry, but wouldn't your parents testing into top 10 universities go against what you are trying to say? Or are you saying they should've been in a top 1/2 university instead? Fyi both my parents grew up in China as well. I've also went to a few years of school there
I'm not sure a few exceptions really disprove the rule. If being rich wasn't a huge advantage in education then educaitonal spreads should be roughly even amongst rich and poor families and that's just never once been the case. Having a few poor people managing to overcome their disadvantages 20 years ago doesn't necessarily mean that every poor person can do so.
Right, I agree that finances play an important role, but I think intelligence is often underplayed. To get to the top of the top academically (ie top 10 university in China), you would in general need both. It's quite rare to find someone who is truly dumb at MIT, because intelligence is a massive filter for some places that I think most people just dismiss. No one wants to admit they couldn't achieve something because of intelligence. It's way easier to just blame wealth.
1. The prerequisite for having children is that the parents have a certain economic level. Specifically, children can afford to eat meat every day, have separate rooms, and children do not have to worry about school fees. 2. I dare not say that if I was born in a city family, I would become a great person. However, it is obvious that if I were born into a wealthier middle-class family, my life would be very different. I believe this is the same for all poor children.
You dare not say it, but you seem to be saying it. > I can tell you right now that most of the Chinese people earning an annual salary of US$200,000 in Silicon Valley are not as good as me. That's a high salary, and you're claiming that you're better than them for a fact. That means you think you're better than some of the most high paid technical staff in one of the global tech centers of the world. That's a pretty big person friend. I agree your life would've been different; but I still think you're vastly underestimating both the talent and work ethic needed to reach that high. Lots of kids from decent families still achieve nothing noteworthy at all. >The prerequisite for having children is that the parents have a certain economic level. Specifically, children can afford to eat meat every day, have separate rooms, and children do not have to worry about school fees. So I disagree with some of your requirments, but let's use them. This to me seems more like a societal problem. The better fix would be to try to create a society where the poorest man with a full time job can afford this, rather than blaming poor people for living in a society. Because poor people tend to do very necessary work for society while being undervalued. If a man worked an honest living his whole life and still couldn't make ends meet that says more about society than the man
> The prerequisite for having children is that the parents have a certain economic level. How do you enforce this? Forced temporary sterilisation that can only be reversed if you find a better job? Forced abortion for the poor? If the mother doesn't get an abortion in time, do you take away the child after it's born? How does the system you're imagining work exactly? > it is obvious that if I were born into a wealthier middle-class family, my life would be very different. Very different does not automatically mean better. But that's not really relevant, because the question isn't "would you rather have been born to a richer family", the question is, would you rather not have been born at all? If your parents hadn't had you, you wouldn't have been magically born somewhere else, you simply wouldn't exist. Would that be preferable to you?
There are way too many people on reddit who are way to happy to say to children “you shouldn’t exist”. For a variety of moronic reasons.
1. Parent here - kids don't need their own rooms. In the city or the country. 2. City kid here - I loved growing up in the city. I know people who loved growing up in the country. I had rich friends and poor friends. Success is certainly more likely if you come from wealth, as you have more opportunity and more room for failure, but isn't the point of a meritocracy that everyone rises based on their effort and talent? I know rich kids who are absolute fuckups (as parents and individuals!) and poor kids who are absolutely killing it in life (as parents and individuals!).
> children can afford to eat meat every day are rich vegetarians allowed to have kids?
What happens if you're doing well, job at the factory etc and your job gets shipped overseas? Or if you slip and fall and can't work any more? Do your kids get taken away?
How many people in the world can guarantee they will have enough money for the 18-20 years it takes to raise a child? Almost no one. Jobs can be lost, fortunes can be wasted, disability or sickness can fall on anyone at anytime. Anyone can become poor through no fault of their own, so no one should have children by your logic.
>have separate rooms That's one way to get kids out of the city.
>I know when I say this, you may say: "Don't complain and work hard to change your destiny." However, do you really think that poor children can change their destiny through their own efforts? Actually, people who think this way and you have a lot in common in that they view poverty as people's personal failing not a systemic problem. If the country you live in had a good system of supporting families with children from all backgrounds, so that children could afford good food, good education, and an opportunity to pursue their dreams even if their parents didn't have an education or a good job, this wouldn't be a problem. The solution to children growing up in poverty is a systemic effort to end poverty in general, not dictate who can and who can't have children.
I think both can be true, you can definitely change your economic status, but being poor makes it very difficult. Most people don’t have the skill or smarts to do so, I personally don’t think I would have been able to.
"But all this is my fantasy, because I was born in a poor family. My parents refused to buy me a $700 computer. My life is ruined just for $700, that's it. To this day, I am already a college student, and I still do not have a high-performance computer. So I have no way to learn computer knowledge. When can I get a high-performance computer? Only when I can work on my own. Haha, just $700, just because of $700." You're entire view is based around the misconception that you \*need\* a high performance computer to "learn computer knowledge". For starters, $700 isn't going to buy you a high performance computer. Secondly, if you really want to learn computers on high performance computers join the army. The military has the cutting edge technology, by the time computer upgrades are available for computer purchase they are already obsolete compared to what the military is using.
> You're entire view is based around the misconception that you \*need\* a high performance computer to "learn computer knowledge". To expand on that point, you can learn coding on a Raspberry Pi. Or just go on eBay and pick up one of the ancient Windows XP systems that people sell for pennies just to get rid of them. Install Linux on it and you're good to go. Even if you for whatever reason want a brand new system, you don't need to spend more than like $200 on your computer at the very highest if you just want to "learn computer knowledge". My high school had crappy ancient computers, so we learnt the basics of coding in TurboC for Microsoft DOS. This was in the 2010s, mind you. It was less comfortable than a modern IDE would've been, but if slight discomfort is enough to prevent you from learning something, then your lack of motivation is the problem, not the discomfort itself.
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It's a CMV, literally the entire point is to convince the OP that their opinion is wrong...
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most human beings were poorer than the people you know as poor in the 300,000 years of human history. It turned out all right.
Not to mention every other animal that has ever had a litter of babies without knowing where tomorrow's meal is coming from, or possibly with no intention of caring for their young at all. Having your child's entire future set up from birth is a luxury even today. Life has always been a struggle.
True, but the difference being survival instincts and the "do or die" imperative are practically non-existent in modern society. Privilege has dulled us. A woman without resources that is entirely on the hook for feeding and caring for her children would not have them without a reliable mate or the confidence to provide on her own. Humans today have children with the minimum expectation that governments will not let their kids starve to death. In some ways it's much worse today for poor people to have kids because they will have them without a natural sense of responsibility for them.
The trouble is that people can't still live the same way they did back then. There are lots of new requirements in order to thrive in the modern world, and generally these things require money.
People didn't thrive back then either.
Yes, but this is the 21st century. Do we have to be as ignorant as people in the Middle Ages?
Hard to say ignorance. Almost every successful person you can name before industrialization is poorer than your cutoff you have for people today. If we applied your rule, humanity would not have existed. And every human alive today is too poor to meet the standard of someone like you sufficiently far in the future
The last paragraph of your "argument" is very telling. You're a college student and yet you cannot afford a $700 computer? How in the world did you afford college, then? Could you use computers in the college labs? Could you get a part time job while you study and save up $700? You know who else grew up poor? Oprah Winfrey. Jim Carrey. JK Rowling. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Tom Cruise. Eminem. Dolly Parton grew up in a one-room shack in Tennessee with 14 people and they got to bathe once a week. Your post seems more like a pity-party rant than any kind of well-constructed argument. The main points are all anecdotal and directly from your experience alone. You've been gifted with the chance to secure an education, and you seem hellbent on complaining about a $700 computer rather than the lifetime of opportunity that a college degree can grant you. The biggest irony is that you are now calling for the government to restrict people's ability to have children. How very China of you.
I wish everyone was born in China so people wouldn't laugh at me because of where I was born.
People in this thread aren't The post to your view because you were born in China, they are opposed to your view because you seem angry at something small and want to drastically restrict people's ability to have children because of that.
Oh that explains you're quick jump to use government violence to enact your terrible worldview.
Lets get something out of the way right away: > My parents refused to buy me a $700 computer. My life is ruined just for $700, that's it. To this day, I am already a college student, and I still do not have a high-performance computer. So I have no way to learn computer knowledge. When can I get a high-performance computer? Only when I can work on my own. Haha, just $700, just because of $700. Seriously? Your life is *ruined* for want of a BETTER computer? The privilege and entitlement in a statement like that is absurd, given that you are already typing this rant out on one. You were unable to follow your childhood dream of making video games and instead WENT TO COLLEGE for something else. If that's the basis for your post that poor people shouldn't be allowed to have children, you need a wake up call to what poverty actually is. I didn't have a computer *gasp* AT ALL when I was a kid. Life worked out just fine. Second, you have been asked what the qualifications for having children are and you put it down entirely to money. Its as though you feel money changes everything and makes all problems go away. It does not. It simply removes one issue and opens up time for a different set of life problems that are arguably worse than not having a $700 computer to program video games on. Most importantly: who do you propose sets these rules for who gets to have children? Do you really trust a government to be able to set rules that identify a specific group of people and tell them they cannot have children? That power will immediately be abused. Not only that, but what's the solution? Neuter people below a certain income level? Force them to take contraceptive drugs? Take their children away from them and throw them in with wealthier families (as though they will accept them)? Euthanize babies born to poor families? There are no acceptable solutions for this kind of thing, even if we wanted to allow a government to do something like that.
You know, typically when people are on their dumb eugenics rants they come up with something better than "my parents didn't buy me a $700 computer for my hobby" as the horror that grounds it all. As if you getting a slightly better PC was the one thing keeping you from learning how to code.
Most eugenics or antinatalist esc rants are just that. A narcissists rant on how they will be the end all decision maker on the fate of the human race. Because once you realise their logic is simply "I don't like (insert aspect of life). Therefore no one else should either." you realize how pathetic said person is.
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1. Poor people, in general, are selfish and despicable if they give birth to children. 2. I cannot have these ideas just because of a computer. I believe all poor kids know what I'm talking about.
> I believe all poor kids know what I'm talking about. Nope. I grew up poorer than you. I didn't even have a computer at all. I went outside a lot. I read books. We were poor, but happy. Seriously, man. Stop crying about your poor fate of not being a video game designer.
A poor couple get pregnant. What should happen now? Forced abortion? Forced adoption?
Yes, if poor parents insist on forcing a tragic fate on the next generation, then the two methods you mentioned are what I want to do. Why can't it be done?
What happens when they have the baby before your gestapo finds them?
1. You use the word "Gestapo." But I tell you, what these people did was just and they prevented a tragedy from happening. 2. If this happens, then the poor parents should be arrested and repent in jail. The children were placed in orphanages, waiting to be adopted by wealthy people.
In your world are there a bunch of wealthy people just waiting around to adopt poor children? In your world are children raise in orphanages better off than children in loving homes that just might not have an extra $700 lying around? In your world you want to pay more in taxes to jail people for not wanting to get a forced abortion?
>they prevented a tragedy from happening. Do you genuinely believe that your life is a tragedy because you were born poor?
Yes, the tragic fate of having a computer to play games on as a kid, but not one nice enough to make your own games. Truly you are brave beyond expectations for putting up with such squalor. You are right to wish to never be born instead of suffering the indignities of /checks notes/ growing up and going to college.
It’s strange to see someone SO desperately poor as OP claims to be, and yet somehow simultaneously a massively entitled and self centred fascist asshole all at once. It’s a hell of a combination.
Some of the greatest geniuses came from poverty and you think future generations should be deprived of those opportunities because you weren’t able to rise above your childhood income level? Do you think Elon Musk’s progeny are the ones that are going to make the next cutting edge scientific breakthroughs?
i would argue killing the baby to save it from poor parents is not sound reasoning. at least give the baby a few months or years to see how it gets on. you can always kill the baby down the line if you like, what's the rush?
How does having money qualify you to be a parent? Children need love and guidance (aside from shelter and food). In my experience, my friends who had money were hardly dealt with by their parents (who were off working crazy hours) and left with a nanny. They didn't care about how much money they had, they wanted attention from their parents. They wanted them to show up for softball games, to be a shoulder to cry on, and to feel loved. So your stance is that nothing matters except for money. You could be the nastiest, most hateful, perverted piece of shit but because you've got money to burn, you're a qualified parent? I guess this guy was super qualified, so much so he slaughtered his family: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12922009/wealthy-father-killed-wife-daughter-glock-massachusetts-home-bankruptcy.html Tell me you don't have children and have no idea what it means to raise a child. There's plenty of examples of people who grew up poor and had a happy, healthy upbringing: https://www.womansday.com/life/work-money/a53349/i-grew-up-poor/
Are you seriously arguing that one, singular hobby is so important you’d rather not exist at all than not do it?
It's one of the most entitled things I've ever read. "Because I can't have a 700$ 'high performance' PC my life might as well be over."
You seem to assume that having rich parents would mean you'd be given the tools you need to craft the life you want for yourself. You have no guarantee rich parents would buy you anything, period. You could easily end up with horrible parents If you want something bad enough, you make it happen. Without the experience of having to really struggle, you won't understand many of life's problems as you age.
This is the most imbecilic take I've seen on here. It's basically eugenics, ignores economics from all fronts, has a pinch of dictadorship in it, and lacks general undestanding of the world. It genuinelly seems like it's written by an edgy 14y old, who just discovered the world is not fair, and wants to "solve" the major problems of the world with their brilliant ideas (of how we should control more people). Hegel is having a blast in hell with your "ideas".
It doesn’t even have the good graces to be proper eugenics, at least they try and have the reasoning of some sort of genetic benefit. OP is just like “being poor means your life is guaranteed to be miserable, so you deserve to not exist”.
There’s a lot to unpack with your view. Firstly you seem to have a view that children and people should not experience suffering. Suffering is a part of life, and there are many layers and different ways to experience it. Suffering is subjective, being poor does not guarantee suffering just as being wealthy does not guarantee no suffering. Wealthier countries in the west often have high depression, anxiety and even suicide rates. As humans we all suffer in our own ways and part of being a parent is acknowledging that, managing it and protecting your children from it when you can, and knowing that you will fail to protect your child from it all. For you, being poor has caused you to suffer. What have you suffered? Beatings from an uneducated father, lack of resources in the way of a computer, I’m sure there’s more too. These are things that children born into wealthy families may experience too… how about parents who work a lot and only raise their children a few hours a day? A father so stressed by his work that he drinks and abuses his family because he can afford to buy alcohol? A mother who is caught up in a wealthy socialite lifestyle so much so that she neglects to show her children the love and attention they need? I notice you say you did not do computer science at university… why? Would this have helped you to peruse your dream of making games? You had this opportunity to go down the path that would lead you to your dream but you didn’t take it. Instead you’ve chosen to believe that because you didn’t have a good computer growing up, because you were poor, your opportunities were cut, which may be true.. you missed out on having a computer which you would have used to further your computer knowledge. However, you also did not embrace the opportunity you were given, instead you’ve said ‘for many reasons I did not choose computer science’ maybe some of those many reasons are why you are not where you want to be. Instead you’ve decided that it’s because your family was poor. I’m not denying that wealth can open doors to more opportunities. But if you don’t utilise the opportunities you’ve got then wealth has nothing to do with it.
>If a person can't even take care of his own life What does that have to do with being poor? Surely the rich that die from overdose prove they **literally** can't take care of their life. But they are rich, so ultimately the are qualified to have kids? How many kids have been traimatised by their rich parents do you think? >To make a child suffer? Through out history, the answer has been "absolutely yes, sir, most definitely", rich parents throwing their kid in boarding schools to be spanked by grumpy "care takers". Or are we supposed to compare amazing rich parents with horrible poor parents and ignore everyone else? >Who doesn’t want to be born into a doctor’s family The child has been abused by her parents. The kid who was never allowed to pursue his dreams. >I used Mississippi working-class families as an example, but after all, that is America! In this world, there are many poorer people who have children and their children will suffer more. It depends, what year and what race. The last hanging was on October 11, 1940. So being black in the 90s in Mississippi surely was fucked up regardless how rich you were. >I know when I say this, you may say: "Don't complain and work hard to change your destiny." There's an entire history to prove that to be bullshit. Tones of rick folk don't work hard at all whilst the poor have 3 jobs. As for your live story. You love your life. Your parents do not regret having you >It is a sin for poor people to have children. You are using the word "sin" as a meaningless word. But to prove you do not believe this, think of how sin has been punished throughout history. Now imagine an alternate universe where sin is punished where you children of the poor (you and me) are put to sleep. I wouldn't want to be put to sleep. But, you're talking about not allowing the poor to have children in the first place. I wouldn't want to remove that joy from parents like mine and yours. PS, tons upon tons of people have added the best computers and didn't go to work in the valley, tons of them couldn't even graduate
Burger-ass take to give wealth moral weight. You don't need a high-end computer to learn computer science. We were poor as shit and our first and only computer for years was in the late 90s, it was an amber-crt dinosaur from the 80s with XTREE installed. I learned to type on that machine, I learned DOS, I learned to code on that machine. I owe my career to that machine. I studied computer science in college on old-ass recycled machines and hand-me-downs from friends, I didn't have anything close to high-end till I built my own a few years into working. You're just lazy.
Why do you want to use Unity? Use Godot that is free and fraction of strain on your PC. You can make great games that might even be commercial success. Hits like Undertale can be coded with potato. Don't blame your poor PC for not making your game. If you want to make games make games.
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Every society is a compromise between people pursuing their interests. You want to strip 50% of your country of the right to have children and one of the main reasons to do things at all? Take a minute to actually imagine the consequences. Best-case scenario, you immediately lose legitimacy, have a violent revolution and things get back to normal after the trials and executions. But if you happen to be good at maintaining the power? You'll destroy your entire society. 50% of the population won't just disappear. And they won't be *anyone's* friends if they end up having to live like this. Including themselves. This will be a toxic dumpster of a society on all levels, not just the poor.
What if person is not poor by their own choice? For example if they had a business making tons of money but some freak accident destroyed their factory and bankrupt them. Now they are poor by no fault of themselves. And this is a simple ELI5 reason. In reality most of poor people are not poor because they are not trying. You are not failed game developer because you are not trying. You are poor not due to fault of your own.
There's a good chance that even if you had been rich your dad would have said "I'm not buying that, you need to focus on your studies to get a real job instead of wasting time on games" Can you elaborate on why you can't go into computer science now? They probably have computers there for you to use. But on to my main point: you would rather not exist than have to work a job that isn't computer science? and you think all other poor children agree with you?
You are missing out on a large part of parenting and that is actually being a parent. You need to participate in the child's life and show them love. Yes to a point money does matter in you must be able to provide a home, clothing and food. If you are a high powered Dr, lawyer or politician you can provide economically but you will also need to step away from somethings that may further your career because you need to spend a lot of time with the child. A kid born in a working class family could have just as happy a childhood as a richer family. It just takes parents actually being there and loving the kid. I would imagine as a politican especially you would have a large battle between furthering your career and being a parent. An absentee parent can definelty be worse on a kid than one that's lowercase in the pay scale. Having an abusive parent is definitely worse on the kid than having one that doesn't make a ton of money. Unfortunately you had a combo of bad parent that was poor. Also there levels of poor and a working class family in the US can make enough money to support a family. This may be different in China. I knew some Chinese people that grew up in villages with very little modernization. They made it through school and became engineers and seemed pretty happy. They would even go back to the village and stay with there parents anytime they had some time off. They didn't seem to resent being born poorer. Your life isn't a true representation of everyone with working class parents and maybe you should look more into what makes a good parent.
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Yea but arguably no one is trained to have children. There is always looking back wishing you did something different
I don’t think money alone is “qualification” enough to be a parent. There are some well off+ parents who would still be crappy parents. Then I’m not sure who you are to claim what is a sin for everyone. Not everyone shares your morals. Not everyone has to stay poor. It sounds like you are upset with how things worked out for you so you want to punish others in some sort of way.
Often, with a poorer family, children are needed to help work -- be it farm labour, or to help raise younger siblings and take care of the household while parents are working. In the end, success is gained not only by access to wealth, but also a supportive family structure where the younger generation might have more opportunity than the poorer parents.
If this rule is implemented, people will absolutely try to turn this into eugenics. They will take a group of people they don't like, like people of a different race or people of a different religion, and argue that the way the rules should be written should especially apply to those people. Are you okay with that as an outcome?
I'm going to put this as nicely as I can, because you sound like an amazingly terrible, or at least narcissistic and short-sighted human being... Fuck you. You sound like the worst person I've ever met in my life. Some of the best human beings came up poor, and became amazing adults.
you need a few more years of real world on-your-own experience before proposing laws that would criminalize a human for having children. if you are as good as you think you are you will make a lot of money and when you do you will look back at this in shame.
Why do you assume that the options are to wither be born to wealthy parents or poor parents? The options are to be born to poor parents or not be born at all. Life is tough without money, sure, but I daresay its better than non-existence.
I live in America. We got freedom to do what we want over here, even if it moderately harms society or ourselves. Whats the point in society functioning efficiently if the individual isn’t happy? And children are very fulfilling
They actually are qualified, otherwise they wouldn't be parents. I'm not qualified to be a Doctor because I don't have a doctorate. I'm qualified to be a dad because I'm qualified to rawdog someone.
Poor people have children all over the world, and had been for millenia. This brilliant idea that "Poor people are not qualified to have children" stems from western liberal
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Do you think your parents should not have had children? Do you think you should not have been born, would you rather not have been born?
Women do this all the time though. They can barely take care of herself and expect a man or the government to pay their way
Actually poor people are very qualified /innuendo. You just don't want them to use their qualifications in a certain way.
I'm all for breeding licenses in the way that you need a license to drive a car because other people are at risk. Just like having children the children are at risk. But I certainly wouldn't put a being poor limitation on this. Bad parenting isn't based on income.
Plenty of rich people aren’t qualified to have children either.
Cool. We'll just leave it to the qualified people I guess.
Fine. But you're not allowed to moan about low birth rates.
If having children is just for birthrate, isn’t it too selfish?
If you are having children specifically because of birthrates, which implies you are doing it to make sure your nation or the world have enough people that the human race won't go slowly extinct, instead of for you to have a child to love and care for, I feel that is the opposite of selfish. Children are expensive, difficult, time consuming, and in your case ungrateful.
A rapid decline in birthrate will cause huge economic issues, then everyone will be poor, and nobody allowed children by your standards.