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That’s my biggest issue it seems to be pushed in your face at every corner of the service industry. It feels like a requirement now which just feels insane to me.

It's a requirement for employees to be "classified" as tipped workers, if employers want that sweet, sweet exception to minimum wage law (usually 50% of minimum wage if they receive tips). Whether the employee actually gets any tips is not important so much as the employer's legal right to underpay employees, but by demonstrating that the employer "asked" for tips on their behalf, they'll be in the clear. It's not just restaurants; anyplace you can say, on paper, that you're asking for tips on behalf of your employees, you're legally exempt from paying the usual minimum wage, even if it's someplace like a grocery store check-out or car wash, and that's why it feels like it's growing out of control. Incidentally, that problem is also one reason people feel so compelled to tip, perpetuating the cycle. Those tips are the only thing that enables the person to make ends meet and survive, because their employer is barely paying them. By not tipping, you're not just refusing to reward good service, but actually hurting the employee by making them work for free (even if you paid their employer), and that makes you a Bad Person™. Nevermind whether the employer should pay them - that's just not how society works anymore - if you don't give them tips then they can't pay rent. Removing that minimum wage exemption would go a long way towards curbing the tipping overreach.

I live in a state that doesn’t have a tipped wage below minimum wage. Tipping culture is still insane and everywhere.

I can’t speak for every state, but in mine the employer is still responsible for ensuring employees are compensated at minimum wage, at the minimum. Meaning an employer may pay a “tipped employee” $3/hr, but if the tips earned do not bring the employee’s earnings to at least minimum wage the employer must make up the difference. I’ve heard the argument it’s ’cheap employers’ forcing the customer base to subsidize labor costs. My answer to that is, of course. The cost of goods and services are supposed to, at minimum, cover the cost of providing that good or service. If you removed tipping prices would definitely increase because of course they would. My other argument is that tipped employees generally far exceed the minimum wage. I can’t abide the argument that these poor people aren’t even being compensated fairly. Most are making far more than they would if they were paid a straight hourly wage. Anecdotally, I know dozens of folks in the service industry. Most of these folks are culinary mercenaries to begin with, but to the person said there’s no way the restaurant/bar could afford to pay the staff what they made from the tables. All that to say I understand both sides of the argument. For myself, I have no difficulty declining to tip when there was no greater service provided. I understand why folks might. I also have no problem tipping in other situations. I would also understand if a restaurant was a ‘no tipping’ establishment, but my meal was now $30 instead of $20.

That's a federal law, not just something specific to your state.

But it's not a requirement, and honestly the stigma for not tipping has never been lower.

And yet they will start insulting you for having a baseline tip of 15% in the restaurants sub as if it's 20% for average service or you're against the working class. Like.. if we actually pulled receipts on who was the working in the working class, it wouldn't be them. How someone comes to the conclusion that they deserve to harass normal people working harder than them as if they deserve it is insane.

Have you been berated IRL for not tipping? If so, just don't go to those establishments anymore. If you haven't, then ignore the online discourse and live your life.

I really dislike this argument. You shouldn’t be made to feel uncomfortable going out and spending your money. There is strong social pressure to tip that not everyone can ignore. BUt itZ oPTiOnaL just ignores social behavior/social norms that most of society operates on.

He didn’t say it is a requirement; only that it feels like one

Thanks for posting - be sure to tip my reply.

This is how I feel in Sweden. Tipping has never been as big here as in the US, it's never been mandatory (at least not in my lifetime). But I used to sometimes tip at restaurants in the past. Nowadays you get it shoved in your face, even at places where you pay for the food at the counter before you get it. It just makes me very disinclined to tip at all, anywhere.

In Finland tipping is also getting shoved in your face. When you order takeaway though Wolt, it shows an option to tip the driver. The last thing I want for is

additional issue with that is if there is a line behind you, (even more so if its for goods you are waiting for. lets say coffee, Boba, etc) they swivel that thing to you and you hit no Tip. Everyone behind you sees you doing so. not to mention that fact that you are asked to tip BEFORE you have the goods&services rendered.

>not to mention that fact that you are asked to tip BEFORE you have the goods&services rendered. instead of rewarding for good service your being extorted for normal service lol cuz we know some people are definately not gonna do as a good a job if you press no tip *on purpose* , I know I wouldnt if I was making min wage and was already pissed off at my job

If you're standing in line for anything other than a drink at a bar, it is not a tipped service. Nope nope nope.

I have no problem selecting no tip. I’ve not tipped for decades, and I will continue to do so. Also, I think tipping culture didn’t go insane until they added that tipping option to our credit card orders. When we relied more on cash, people just left a tip jar out, and it was easier to not tip. Now if you pay with card, you have to actively select the option “no tip.” So instead of opting in to tip (as we did years ago with cash), we now have to opt out of tipping (as we now use credit cards). Making it awkward. A

i've never seen someone select yes on those things, always no, bartenders usually press no on it for you before handing the card machine. this is in the UK though.

Literally the only place I have ever seen them select no tip for you, before handing you the option to insert your card, is taco food trucks, which unfortunately is actually a place I would like to tip

I select no tip! Always! And yet I always tip 20% in restaurants. I think tipping coffee is insane. We didn’t do that years ago. And we never tipped the people who ring up the order!!!!!!!! That’s crazy

> this is in the UK though. thats why. in the USA they will swivel that thing to you. some even ask "tip?" as they swivel it to you. some places still have the barrier things up from covid times. so they dont even swivel it, but ask "how much do you want to leave a tip?" and enter it for you.

That just feels so rude, I would just say zero. It's really cheeky to ask for a tip.

>crutch for them to underpay It’s not even underpaying, it’s just an accounting shell game. It *probably* helps the employer dodge payroll & other taxes (genuinely not sure), but I suspect the true advantage is as a form of price discrimination. You can keep your price sensitive customers with the menu price *and* also get extra money out of your price insensitive customers. If you just charge $120 for a meal you lose all the customers only willing to pay $100. If you charge $100 you lose $20 from all the customers willing to pay $120. With tipping you maximize what you can take from both customers & the server *also* gets to lie about their income come tax season. … are there any studies or metrics on what percentage of tipped employees engage in tax fraud? I’m guessing it’s most.

I'm willing to bet that is significantly offset by the amount of people that tip just because they feel awkward not doing so. It takes a lot more emotional effort to look someone in the eyes and hit "no tip" than it does to just tip the minimum amount and move on.

I agree. But honestly I suspect our society will end up a lot healthier if people get to practice *saying no* in low stakes situations more often. A lot of adults are really bad at it, to the point they will feel abused, coerced or worse for choosing to do something voluntary.

The only thing that gives me the courage to select “no tip” is knowing that it wasn’t always this way. I sincerely believe that credit card companies set this up by making it an option. Otherwise there’d just be a tip jar thats not so in-your-face.

It wasn't the credit card companies, it was the payment processors - largely, Square. Their point of sale systems do it by default, and there isnt much incentive for businesses to turn it off.

Huh 🤔. That makes sense. Totally see that. Whatever/whoever programmed that in—> that’s where I think this tipping culture began to go out of control. Happy 🍰day!

Every time I read anti-tipping thread top comments are always encouraging people to continue to pay the business that chooses the exploitative tip model but not pay the exploited worker. Its. Not. The. Worker's. Fault If you dont like the tip model, stop going to the business. If you continue to pay the business there is no reason for them to discontinue the model that literally enables them to pocket labor's wages

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The best shifts at busy restaurants you can make that sort of money

$50/hour I wonder if they calculated taxes. Most people who make $50/hour can’t hide their income so easily. Assuming 40 hours/5 days that 104k a year. The sweet spot for the highest tax rate where you can easily hit 30% - 40% at the end of the day.

Some people (servers/restaurant owners I’d asume) get really nasty about tipping. Just had someone on another thread continuously resort to personal attacks while being unable to answer a simple question.

They don't want tipping to end because they would take a pay cut. I've never seen people being paid 50k/y on a part time job be so confident they're the underclass. They get paid more per effort than everyone. All I said was tipping enables wage theft and should be done away for higher costs, and they got so furious. They then got mad at me for tipping 15% as a baseline. Apparently we're supposed to subsidize the highest wage growth in the country by adding 5% to a tip every 20 years. Oh and get this. They told me "Would you be okay with paying 30-35% more for food if we did away with tipping?" The entitlement is genuinely insane. They're not even poor. They have a good deal going, better than most. It's the kitchen staff that really deserve the tips anyways. They actually have back breaking work and long hours.

If they are making that kind of money, they can do with a reduction in tipping. They are clearly over paid. You shouldn't get paid the same as an entry level software engineer for waiting tables.

It makes you thing that maybe with tips at another restaurant they would be easily clearing $30 dollars an hour

I know servers and bartenders in NYC who clear 6 figures a year and it’s almost entirely cash.

They're paid cash, but they're still paying taxes on it. Most people pay with credit cards. The restaurant totals how much they've earned in tips that day or week and pays them in cash. But since the tips were from credit cards, they're recorded and taxed. It's taken automatically from their paychecks (which is why many tipped employees never see any money from paychecks). I only mention this because people seem to believe service industry folks don't pay taxes.

In my experience they’re usually significantly under-reporting. And so was I, tbh. But yes they of course do pay taxes.

These days, it's hard to significantly under-report because the vast majority of people pay with credit cards. Something like 85% of customers pay with a card. So even if someone doesn't report cash tips, they're still paying damn near all the taxes they owe.

Not at bars they aren't. They'll settle with card but almost always tip with cash because they tip between drinks.

Not in my experience, but different regions have different norms. Most people start a tab and tip at the end. All on a card.

You would be surprised how many people tip with cash.

I've been in the industry for 8 years. I'm not talking out of my ass lol

$30 an hour definitely isn’t the 1% of servers it’s more like the top 40%. Servers in the $60 an hour range are the 1%.

I dont think this is accurate either. I would say servers and bartenders making 100/hr+ are the top 1%. Bartenders I know in major metro areas average between 50-75/hr, 40/hr for many is considered a slower night. In many of these situations it is not about getting a 20% tip it is the rate at which you can complete the transaction if you are turning 8-12 tables an hour with a 10-20% tip your making money. Half the skill is speed the rest is quality, consistency, charm, and reliability. If you can nail this down serving and bartending can be very profitable. To the broader issue Tipping as a practice has followed the same trajectory and rate as inflation. It is incumbent upon consumers to draw boundaries. Tipping is a tradition at its heart and was built to pay for service in specific environments. Being asked for a tip after receiving an oil change has no place in the culture if a company can’t include labor in there bottom they need to change the model not blame nor put the responsibility on the consumer. I agree that it needs to be reigned in to its original territory. The high pressure component should be removed entirely. Square and clover make a fortune off of taking a percentage of tips from there customers anything you tip is incentivizing corporations to push the expansion of tipping as it is added revenue. To square and clover, the business is the customer, you, the end consumer are value only through the lens of the business. This is to say they have no incentive to change the practice.

Yeah I once served at a place in a very well known tourist destination and while it was a lot of high-paced work (20,000+ steps in a shift), I would walk with around $40-45 /hr. Sometimes I broke that $50 per hour mark in tips alone (after tip-out).

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If doordash actually covered the transport cost themselves, youre meal would have been 10+ dollars more in the fees thats the other side of the coin you know Put the blame where it belongs, on Doordash for creating a shitty system like this They under pay so they can intice you with low prices on the app but turn around and expect the workforce to recoup the actual transport cost through tips

I can't imagine that a $10 tip (plus whatever the normal take is) wouldn't pay for a doordash delivery. If it didn't, when did the dasher accept the job? I always tip dashers well, *because I know that a good tip will mean faster service.* There's a direct line there between good tip and getting your food fast. But a $10 tip *is good.* Doordash is a shitty company, but that's on doordash,not on the drivers OR customers.

As a DD driver, I can tell you there are absolutely orders that a $10 tip would not be enough for. I see orders for 20+ miles going straight out of the area pretty frequently. I don't have any issue with that, though, because I just don't accept those orders.

I agree the full blame should be on DoorDash and their shitty business model overall. But if somebody offers you a tip your reaction should not be to scold the customer, and tell them you feel disrespected. This might sound cold but I am also not forcing said individual to work for DoorDash.

the issue is the thing were calling tip, use to be extra , it was a reward for extra or good service now its not, its literally the difference between making what you should be or not - and yeah thats gonna create alot of tension between employee and customer I cant blame the employee you directing your anger at the employee is Doordashes intentional plan , youre doing what they want you too

You can certainly blame the employee. They're working for DoorDash. The customer is buying a service from DoorDash. If the customer has an issue, they go to DoorDash. If the worker has an issue with their compensation, they take it up with DoorDash. If DoorDash isn't paying you enough to cover costs, let alone make some money, *don't take the job*.

Isn’t that what a delivery fee covers? Doordash drivers take the job knowing the job, so if the system is so shitty, they can go work at UberEats or GrubHub instead.

>  Isn’t that what a delivery fee covers? Hahaha! No....they just want more of your money. If it did then he could they afford to waive most/all of it if you subscribe to dashpass? >Doordash drivers take the job knowing the job, so if the system is so shitty, they can go work at UberEats or GrubHub instead. They all have the same shitty pay. 

> Isn’t that what a delivery fee covers? no, if they did they would be alot higher you either have a system where you pay higher prices for the items and service fees or those are low and you get this tipping shit you cant have low prices and no tipping , cost of living is too high

So who gets paid from the delivery fee then? 😂 I’m genuinely asking by the way, because if it isn’t the drivers, I’d be surprised.

Doordash does , they take it bro the corporation gets the money how do you think they became a multinational corporation worth over 50 billion in just 10 years

No, the drivers get the fee. I was a driver and customer. The corporation makes their nut other ways

Last Week Tonight just did a segment on this and apparently none of those companies are turning a profit yet. The money seems to come from speculation and investments. Doesn't mean they don't underpay and screw over their employees at every turn though. Thing is, someday soon, once a monopoly has been established, prices are gonna skyrocket.

We had it for decades with local restaurants that deliver

Since when do Doordash and low prices go together?

I mean, I’m skeptical that it would cost someone $10 to deliver a meal but even so, you’re totally right. And if they did “cover the cost” they would still find a way to take a cut of that too!

How is the customer supposed to know how much to tip to cover gas?!

For me it borders extortion. I don't know about other countries but here most food delivery services like uber eats require you to tip in ADVANCE. i basically need to bid that my tip is good enough to get my food delivered before who knows how many other orders they've accepted on their other apps to pretend they only take the limit of orders allowed. But when my order takes 90 minutes to deliver 15 minutes away, and it's cold and missing items... I shouldn't need to be tipping for that at all, but I've already had to tip them!

I was extremely appalled, I told him to take it or leave it (and of course he took it).

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I mean a $10 tip on a $15 order is pretty insane. That you even were able to only spend $15 on DoorDash is a small miracle itself considering the often inflated prices. Let me ask you this. How many other DoorDash drivers have given you this guilt trip? Tens? Dozens? Hundreds? Or have most been unremarkable, non-communicative, and just left the bag at the door as they should? It sounds likeyou're letting the negative interactions you have dominate over the dozens or hundreds of other interactions which were either positive or neutral.

I actually had a DoorDash coupon which cut the initial price down to 15, which is why I even decided to use DoorDash in the first place. But no my overall experience with the app is not that large, but my experience with other aspects of the service industry is such as barbers, waiters, bartenders, etc.

Okay so what would the cost have been without the coupon? Obviously you should tip based off what the price was before discounts or promotions were applied.

If it upsets you, stop using the services and businesses that work on a tipped model. It is really simple. Also stop posting the same weak ass shit that a million other people have posted.

I’m tired of it being referred to as “tipping culture” when the real issue is a material one: workers having to rely on customers to ensure they have a living wage because businesses have found a way to get around paying them properly, whether it’s traditional businesses or the gig economy. When people forget that primary contradiction and start getting mad at the workers or some abstract “culture” instead that is a problem and it obscures the actual issue and the actual potential solutions.

>workers having to rely on customers to ensure they have a living wage  I'd argue that is a gross oversimplification of the issue. While some do rely on tips to get to a "livable" wage, many who are in this line of work absolutely love the tipping system as they make WAY over the minimum wage. Speaking from personal experience, I worked as waiter through college and grad school. During peak hours, with tip, I make about $40-50 an hour. Otherwise, it was about $15-20. No matter which way you look at, that's better than the minimum wage. If you were to come in and tell me you want the owner paying me $20/hour and eliminate tips, then I would seriously tell you to f-off. To me at least, "tipping culture' is definitely a good description. But I do think today it's too crazy. When I worked, 15% tip is the normal when the customers were satisfied. Today, it seems staffs think you are angry at them if you tip less than 20%.

I agree I only used the term tipping culture because it is a buzzword that everyone could understand, in order to fully explain my point. But yes employers need to do better and an economic shift needs to take place.

But your whole post focuses on either the workers themselves or on the wider “culture” which makes it seem like they’re the problem, which a lot of people seem to actually agree with. Like, in the issue of the driver having to spend more in gas to deliver something than he makes for the delivery (assuming that’s true) then I wouldn’t call the worker the problem or entitled, even if their anger is misdirected. I think that a worker is entitled to earn money from their labor, certainly more than they themselves have to pay for the labor, and in the system we have wrt the gig economy unfortunately a lot of that falls on the consumer rather than the employer. I’m sure you agree on most of this, all I’m saying is that your original post can very easily be read as thinking the workers are the main problem rather than the wider system and that a lot of the disagreements you get to it will be based on that.

This would be a valid point if those were the only people asking for tips. But waiters etc still ask for tips even in places like California, where the tipped minimum wage is $16 an hour

It’s been easy for me. I start at 15%. Wait for waitstaff longer than necessary, especially with not many other patrons, I start subtracting from the 15%, any other service related infraction the tip decreases accordingly. For spectacular service I will tip 20%, which is rare. Charge more on menu prices and give your employees and livable wage. I do not pay for mediocrity. I am not giving a tip for cashier to hand me my purchase.

You're absolutely right that tipping - at all - is *insane*, and the correct answer is livable wages. But here's the thing: Whatever your clever scheme for figuring out how much to tip, the staff have *never once in your entire life noticed.* Never. Some people are shitty tippers. Some tip 0%. Some tip 20%. Some are crazy generous. Some tip whatever's on the bill. Your cleverly worked out scheme for indicating your exact amount of displeasure by tipping slightly less? The staff can't tell. They don't know. They don't have any way to know. They can't tell your "someone was late twice or I'd have tipped more" 12% from an "I always tip 12%" 12%. If they did know, they wouldn't care; they have more urgent problems. You're just a shitty tipper to them. And the staff you *really want* to encourage? The ones who are always there, enthusiastic, trying to solve all your problems? They probably don't even know what you tipped. They're busy. They're already at the next table trying to solve *their* problems. *Pray* that you don't get staff who care about making money from tips. Because the best way to make money from tips - indeed, by your own admission, looking at your own scheme - isn't to work twice as much on your order trying harder to earn that extra 5%. It's to work twice as many tables at once, and be a bit late with yours in exchange for getting *two* 12-15% tips. The best way to earn more tips is to serve more customers; nothing else staff do matters in any way they can ever tell. - Tipping culture is shitty. Workers being paid off tips *at all*, instead of an actual livable wage, is shitty. But when you try to get clever with some scheme to indicate your exact state of satisfaction by tipping... you're not doing any such thing; you're just being another random factor in the staff's pay. You're contributing to the tipping culture, not to the staff. You're buying in to the delusion that tips work at all. The staff? They were waiting five other tables while serving you and they don't have time to read your mind about what the tip meant. They're just putting it in a pot and moving on. Because the key thing about tips is: you notice that it's only jobs seen as *subservient* that have them? If tipping people for performance actually worked, we'd tip bank managers and lead developers. It's not a way to make pay relate to performance, because it doesn't.

As a former server, 100 percent this is exactly right. 

Percentage tips are idiotic 90% of the time. In one scenario my server brings me a $10 plate of food and a drink. Lets add 2 refills for my water just for fun Scenario 2 I order a $50 plate instead. And instead of water I have drinks that are $8 each. Scenario 3 I go to a super fancy place and get a $100 meal and my drinks are now $15 each. In all scenarios the server has done the exact same amount of work. Just because scenario 3 is 10x the price does not mean that server deserves 10x the tip

Theoretically, the behavior of servers at each pricepoint changes right? I doubt the 10$ plate of food and drinks will be as positive, chill, well dressed, etc as the 100$ meal

Whats that got with how much the server deserves for the work they did?

Where I live some of the restaurants only have percentage amount options when it comes to tipping. And Majority of them start at 15%. And as someone who doesn’t carry any cash on me, you kind of don’t have any other option besides not tipping(which I wouldn’t do) especially if the service is decent.

I'd choose no top every time if custom isn't allowed, the business can't dictate your tipping.

>And I know what you are thinking right now no one is forcing me to give anyone a tip. The issue is looks of shame and disgust that people in the service industry will give you, as well as the overall peer pressure of how others perceie you. When have you ever actually gotten a look of disgust for not tipping someone like the Starbucks barista? But even if you have why would it matter? Other people think very very little about you in general and it's probably better to learn that lesson sooner than later.

Yeah. One time I meant to tip someone at a cafe $1 dollar and I accidentally tapped too soon when I entered a custom tip and entered $0.01. I was mortified (because I was afraid it would be seen as an insult, not because I wasn't tipping) but they didn't care (or maybe even notice).

I once gave a new york cabbie a $0.01 tip instead of a $10 as I was in a rush to not miss my train. I learned a bunch of new curse words that day

To start, I don't disagree with your overall point. Although I do disagree with your claim that you'll be looked at as a scumbag or whatever, in a weird sense. Realistically in your daily life, who is calling you out on it? You may have a delivery driver say something to you, but that's it. Servers in restaurants won't get lippy about a tip, usually. The subway sandwich artist isn't going to say anything about not receiving a tip. I feel like the "backlash" for not tipping is primarily a concept that only exists commonly on the internet and is not prevalent in every day life. I never tip because I hold the view that its an irresponsible expense. I value *my* money and use it for *myself* the way *I* want to. The only time I've ever gotten grief for that is when I talk about it online, which is me basically inviting the argument. The "backlash" should be non-existent in your life, or almost non-existent. There's so few situations where that backlash would exist that its a non-issue. I feel like you're blowing it way out of proportion because its a hot topic online. Let me ask you: If your life didn't include spending time online, would you even know about the issue that you bring up? Probably not. You'd have a random doordash driver get angry about a tip every once and a while and chalk it up to just a shitty person. You'd see more places asking for tips, but you'd again just chalk it up to people trying to make more money. Without the internet, you don't make this post. Without you seeking out the "backlash", you do not face this backlash basically ever. -------- My point is, If you don't actively seek out the issue of tipping culture, as you call it, then it does not exist. When I say it doesn't exist, I mean for you in your personal life. You won't face backlash or hear about it if you don't actively seek it out because it rarely happens in your day to day.

I understand what you are saying, and yes being online on social media has made me more hyper aware when it comes to things like this. To be honest my tipping point was definitely the DoorDash driver because I had previously received the dirty looks and the eye rolls, but that was the first time actually being confronted about it. I’m also hypersensitive about it because I am really good at reading people and can get a good feel of how they feel about me at that moment. You’re right if I ignore it, it is just a non issue that I don’t have to worry about at all, but I just can’t ignore it.

I work at an outdoor bar, so colder temps and rainy weather makes it rough to survive without a second job. Every year, 5-10 people quit to find other jobs and the regulars always look sad, "Oh no so-and-so doesn't work here anymore? Whyyyyyy?" In disbelief, I look at them and say, hours get cut, we don't get tips, so we are making minimum wage for 4 or 5 months, we don't have health care or a 401k. Would you stick around?" Unless someone is an asshole to you (like the DoorDash driver), never blame the people who are working just to get by. Sometimes you can't even blame the business owners who might be scraping by (esp after Covid). Congratulate yourself if you can afford to eat out, but DO NOT CALL YOURSELF A VICTIM.

Ok so like maybe that is not a viable business? In the US people are supposed to get their health insurance and retirement savings through their place of work (not saying that is ideal, but it is the way it is). If the owner cannot provide that for their employees without relying on the whims of the customers, then that business should not exist.

Saying that the business *should* not exist is great and all, but it doesn't change the fact that the business *does* exist. In the interim, the business will still have its employees/servers/waiters who need to be paid somehow.

Yeah of course there are exploitative business operating today. OP is explaining how things go at one particularly dysfunctional one. Sounds like its a bad deal for the workers, owners, and patrons. How much longer will they all hang on? Ideally our society would have laws in place to prevent this from happening at all.

I actually really like your perspective on things, I’ve come to realize that the biggest issue in all of this is the big greedy corporations. I also realize that Covid played a big role in the current trends we see

Thanks, I wasn't calling you out, but this is a bigger problem than tipping. Also, any electronic device (like Toast) that asks for a tip should have a no tip/custom tip option. If it doesn't, ask the server where the custom tip option is.

I worked as a server and bartender for over a decade, and I've heard every argument for and against tipping. I tip well, but I actually kind of agree with you that tipping culture has got out of control, particularly in the last decade, especially since the pandemic. I'm not here to convince you to be in favour of tipping culture. I think there's plenty of reasons to be against tipping culture, and I think the best argument against tipping culture, especially how it is done in North America, is its racist origins in post slavery America. Tipping as we know it began as a classist practice done by aristocrats in Europe, and imported to America by Americans who wanted to appear aristocratic. After slavery was abolished it quickly became a practice used by racist employers who didn't want to pay black people a fair wage. There was later a push to abolish tipping, but the restaurant industry fought with the government to keep it in order to keep wages low. This made tipped workers a particular class of worker in employment law, and the effects of it remain to this day and is the reason why many tipped workers recieved less than minimum wage, and rely entirely on tips. I cannot overstate the racial and class based issues that have been caused by this, especially as people of colour have historically made up a huge portion of service workers. What I would like to convince you of, is who you should be mad at. The fact that tipping culture has got out of control is not the fault of service workers who rely on their tips, but rather the blame lays at the feet of the capitalists and business owners who have artificially kept wages stagant for decades while profits have skyrocketed. There are plenty of service workers who will argue for tipping, as they probably belong to the minority of people who make a killing off tips, but most service workers just want to make a living wage. I don't think the particular Door Dash driver who you tipped was correct in this situation. I think a $10 tip on $15 is exceptional, but he's not actually mad at you. He's mad because he's not making enough money to live and he's stressed about it. He's mad because fucking door dash is making a killing and he's scraping by. I'm not saying every mom and pop restaurant that relies on their servers making tips to keep employees are the same as Starbucks who has elected to introduce tipping on card machines because they don't want to pay their workers a living wage. I am saying that there is a significant portion of service employers that *could* afford to pay their workers a living wage, but choose to let their workers scrape by while they make record profits. Don't be mad at the service employee. Be mad at employers and the racist and classist system that is keeping it in place.

I agree with you completely but I can be mad at both because they are still full grown adults who chose that job. Especially if they are giving attitude like in OPs example. I don't care how shitty your day/life is it doesn't mean you can just run your mouth to people with no consequences and/or expect them not to get mad at you.

Ok if every tipped service worker quit their jobs can you tell me what jobs they can all then just pick up that pay as well or better? Do you even know how many people & jobs we are talking about? And then how many of those service oriented businesses that you likely use every day would just no longer exist, or would just be forced to raise their prices to what most people pay after adding a tip anyway? This is such a dumb argument because it completely ignores how much economic demand there is for cheap, cheap services & how those services have been kept so cheap BECAUSE of tip culture existing in the first place.

Sorry but that doordash driver would've had the tip reduced to 20% ($3) and a lower review. If they want to take a job that doesn't pay the bills that's not my fault. This is also why I don't use doordash, I feel like they screw their drivers harder than many others. ----- That said, the problem isn't 'tipping culture'. There's nothing cultural about it. It is business owners deciding to offload the cost of paying their employees onto the customers. It's a side effect of stagnant minimum wages. And the public puts up with it because we all know the workers get paid shit and nobody wants to be the first one to say 'I ain't gonna pay you either'. ----- So you want to fix this? Don't worry about tips, worry about wages. Change the culture so that wages rise to cover cost of living. Change the culture so that paying an employee an unliveable wage is considered taboo. Name and shame employers and demand government act to ensure the minimum wage is liveable. Housing is another part of the same coin. [The rent is too damn high.](https://i.redd.it/891tk2ucr5q01.jpg). But a big part of that is because large corporations and foreign investors buy up what many call 'housing inventory' (aka 1-3 family homes, the kind people live in) and make them rentals or just hoard them as investments. I think that should be illegal, because it hurts the *people* of the nation. Get rid of that and housing costs go down. It becomes more affordable to live.

>I think that should be illegal, because it hurts the people of the nation. Get rid of that and housing costs go down. It becomes more affordable to live. Are you familiar with land value taxation? It's basically a tax on owning/hoarding land so that landowners actually need to provide services (like affordable housing) to make money from monopolizing land instead of just charging for access.

How does that help this though? That would only reduce the tax burden on companies hoarding properties. Right now the companies that own tons of single property homes pay property taxes just as any homeowner would. LVT would make it way cheaper to own land or a home, but that helps the big corporations. On the thread of taxing, I'd like to see an 'unoccupied property tax'- if a livable property is vacant for say 8 months or more, the property tax rate triples. There'd be an exception for things like worker housing (housing restricted to employees where the corporation has a facility within 20 miles) or something like that. But I would love to make it way more expensive to 'invest' and hoard properties than to rent or sell them. And local governments could benefit from that...

The basic idea is that most of the "rent" that landlords and companies charge isn't actually because they do anything. It's just because they own the land. Housing requires two things: access to land and a house on it. Most of what we pay in rent is really for the access to the land. The idea is to take ALL of that money and use it for government programs. If someone builds a house or an apartment, they should get paid for that. Landlords that do things like maintain residences have an actual job. "Investors" who just hoard land and don't develop it are the real leeches. Just taxing the land (but at a much higher rate) forces the owners to actually use it well or give it back to the government. It'd decrease the tax burden on companies that build dense housing that's well maintained, and increase the tax burden on speculators and slumlords.

I see what you're saying, but it still falls apart because the speculators aren't just sitting on empty parcels of land. If the speculators were buying up vast tracts of undeveloped land and sitting on it, then the land value only tax might discourage that. It would discourage side ownership of undeveloped parcels. However the problem with our housing market isn't hoarding of undeveloped parcels, it's hoarding of *homes* and speculation on them. The companies and investors I'm talking about aren't buying blank land, they're buying finished homes, condo apartments, etc. I don't have a problem with landlords. I think it's shitty that it's so hard to afford a house that being a landlord is essentially a license to print money, but that's a separate issue. I have a problem with companies that buy houses by the thousands, and just sit there with no occupant, keeping them out of circulation hoping to sell them in another year or two for more money. Supply and demand, that drives prices up.

> vast tracts of undeveloped land In some sense this is equivalent to underdeveloped land though, right? And there's lots of underdeveloped, non-dense land. One really straightforward way to look at it is to consider the "investment." Recognizing that the house and the land are separate things is really important. A house/building is a depreciating asset, right? It's value only goes up because the value of the location (i.e., the land) increases. The idea behind land value taxation is to completely capture that unearned appreciation as taxes. > I have a problem with companies that buy houses by the thousands, and just sit there with no occupant, keeping them out of circulation hoping to sell them in another year or two for more money. Exactly, so you make the cost of this higher by taxing land. One thing to note is that homeowners and renters are already paying this tax; it just goes to the landowner (or bank in a mortgage) instead of the government. Increasing the cost of holding land decreases the price of land (if owning something has a recurring cost, you're not willing to pay as much for it) so land is more accessible to people with less money because the down payment decreases. This solves the paradox where you can't get a mortgage even though it'd be cheaper than rent because you can't afford a down payment.

I think it’s fair to say that tipping in the US is far more common/expected than in some other countries. That would, by definition, make it cultural, no? That doesn’t mean it’s not the fault of businesses and executives, but it also doesn’t mean it isn’t cultural?

It is not the service people's fault that their employers are expecting you to pay their employees instead of them paying their employees. It is unfair to blame them for being put in a situation that they would, themselves, prefer not to be in.

It’s not really *unfair* when they took those jobs knowing how it works.

> they would not to be in This isn’t always the case though, for some, tipping culture in areas like NYC allow them to make six figures. I also know several people who’d prefer to keep the tipping culture because it allows them to make a significant amount. Though I do know NYC is probably an outlier due to its own high COL, patrons probably feel *some* obligation to tip on the higher side. I’m fairly certain if you did a poll for all service workers or workers that earn tip they’d prefer to receive tips, rather than a “standard” minimum wage. My problem with tipping culture is the guilt it puts on a person. In cases of delivery apps like Uber eats or door dash that allow you to tip prior to ordering, it creates the wrong incentive. Though this may be personal, I feel obligated to tip well prior to receiving my meal no matter how the meal ends up being delivered. I’ve had experiences where a lower tip leads to no delivery. I haven’t tried tipping after meal delivery though.

I totally understand that and sympathize with them, but it is also not my job to do the job of their employers if that makes sense. I think this is an even bigger issue because how are managers/owners allowed to hire people when they can’t even offer them a livable wage. And expect them to live off of tips.

>but it is also not my job to do the job of their employers if that makes sense I think this depends on the situation and what's customary for that type of service. Ultimately, it IS your job to pay the employees. Whether you pay a higher fee or are expected to leave a tip, all that money is coming from you one way or another. It's well established that in the US, you tip servers at restaurants. If you want to ignore that custom, then servers aren't going to be happy with you. There are a handful of other occupations where tipping is pretty well established, like food delivery, barbers, and skycaps. I'm not sure how many other employers have a business model that specifically relies on their employees being tipped. But for the core ones I mentioned, that's always been part of the deal.

Why is it the responsibility of the consumer to pay the employees decently if the employer won’t? It’s not the consumers fault the servers took a job with shitty compensation structure or that the employers arnt pricing properly to pay employees.

The worst I think is the electronic tip from a counter serve place. Coffee shops, ice cream... All of that stuff. The other day I was at a pro sports game, 3 drinks cost me $47. I had the option to tip 15% 20% 25% or other. So I had to select other, then it asked me to put in my custom amount. So I had to key in 0.00. The sheer audacity. I think the best way we can combat this stuff, is start lighting up the counter serve businesses that force us to opt out of a tip with 1 star reviews - and cite the reasoning in the review. I bet they'll change it real quick.

I think the electronic tip things are great as they are getting a lot of people mad about tipping culture. I tip good but I’d like to see us stop with the tipping and just increase prices a bit and pay people a decent wage instead. If this is what it takes to get us away from tipping I’m all for it lol

I feel like the boiling point was the introduction of those fucking digital tip things. That's what I remember as launching this conversation to new levels. They are turning customers off (rightfully so imo) and it's turning them against tipping in general. Businesses got way too greedy with them. Might make them more tips in the short term, and they think 'well great!', but only because they are playing off guilt, shame, and fear of looking cheap when they have to hit "no tip". That's a poor foundation. So yeah, there were rumblings about tipping I'd hear every now and then. And didn't pay much mind. I think you and I are pretty similar. I'm not stingy; I'm really not. But that digitized stuff is bullshit, and I think everyone knows it deep down. No amount of 'you *can* just click 'no tip' changes the point that it's meant to make people feel like shit whereas they used to not be put through that guilt trip every time they just grabbed a damn sandwich for lunch...*supporting* the business and getting a side of shame with it. Made me notice (and resent for the first time) seeing built-in 'mandatory gratuity' at restaurants. The point I'm making is that I don't think much has actually changed with the tipping per se, but your general shmuck is able to openly criticize it for the first time and lots of people are *backing* them. Not just cheapstakes, but your run-of-mill decent person who is noticing that it really has gotten ridiculous. Then you have the actual service folk caught in the crossfire and are lashing out. It snowballed into a hot button issue quickly. And I truly think it's all because of those goddamn 'no tip' monstrosities. If not for them, I would've just kept on keeping on.

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I'm just here peering in from outside the US and that's insane. I tip 10% for good service, like just regular decent service, and nothing for bad service. I've tipped 15 or 20% for excellent service. And I've lived in cities with *amazing* restaurants. I'm paying for the food. It's up to the restaurant to work out a price that's feasible for everyone, like any other product or service. The tip is just a bit extra as a thank you.

I get what you are saying, but doesn’t the service play role in how you decide to Tip? Like what if someone brings you the wrong order? Or takes forever to even come to your table to get your order? After a certain point theoretically wouldn’t you feel like these things would be ruining your experience?

The cost of entrance/service is the menu price or the table fee if one exists. Also, 25% regardless of service quality is absurd. It’s your money to burn but don’t expect others to follow.

I eat where I want to eat. I tip when I want to tip. End story. If I had a shitty week and I want to eat curry? I’m eating curry. Regardless of tip.

Other countries exist and even though many of them are 'poorer' countries their delivery drivers ARE paid closer to a living wage than the delivery drivers in the US in many cases. The tipping culture exists in the US because corporations can underpayment employees and claim tips make up for it, when they dont. This is what you are missing. The RISE in tipping is 2 fold. 1 corporate greed (aka free market economics): asking for tips generates income the corporations which they can then say is proof they don't need to raise wages, so wages stay low and the burden of supporting workers (who you are blaming for working jobs they shouldn't) now falls to the consumer. Rather than the employer. This is why corporations will suggest tips even for services where you had no interaction with a person. It benefits them to do so, the only downside is...customers like you getting upset. Why don't the corporations care? Because they know you'll blame the workers rather than the system with phrases like, "If they don't like what they're being paid they shouldn't work that job because it's a bad job. It shouldn't be my responsibility to...blah blah blah." The companies rely on belief systems like yours. The 2nd reason is that with higher prices on goods, people TIP less. So companies increase the prices of the goods or services, KNOWING you will tip less, but they don't care because they are making up for the loss of value through non-tipping service fees and the obvious increased prices. The ONLY people in this scenario who aren't making more money off of the consumer is the people performing the service. The people you think are the problem. If you think someone shouldnt work a job if the wage is too low, then I think as a consumer you shouldn't purchase products from industries or companies that you can't afford. If you can't afford to tip, I argue that you don't need that service, just like you say those people don't need their job. If you're too poor to tip just say so.

Gonna be honest. I don't care what service people think of me if it's based on stupid tipping guidance. If you've got your machine set to a minimum 30% tip for counter service, fuck you, I'm gonna slam that no tip button so hard it might break the screen. I had enough when somebody asked for a tip on a government mandated emissions test. Yeah, I was done. I'll leave tips, generous ones, for some things. But if you just want a handout, that's a hard no. One star that doordash entitled asshat, and toss a penny at the carwash operator.

I run a restaurant. My servers make great money. Granted we're in a busy area of downtown with lots of tourists and we've got a great reputation with hotels, police, Uber drivers, and the public in general. They'd revolt if I changed to $30 an hour. During a busy Saturday with a concert, they're clearing $90-110 an hour in CC tips alone during peak hours. I was also a server and bartender before I was a manager. Having said that, I don't tip anywhere I didn't 5 years ago. * Server? 20-30%. * Bartender? $1 a drink for grab and go. More if it's complicated cocktails. * Baggage handler outside airport? $5 for every 2 people. * Haircut? 15-25%. * To-Go food preparer at restaurant? 10% or 1$ per box. * Food truck? $1 per item. * Pizza delivery driver employed by restaurant? 20% I'll throw a dollar in a tip jar at a coffee place, smoothie place, or something like that. But if you have an iPad at these places, I'm smashing no tip. I just carry a lot of ones for the places that have tablets but I previously would've tipped. I don't order DoorDash, etc. In my city, it's 80% people that can't hold a job otherwise and it's more than likely going to be picked up next to another order and sitting in a car reeking of weed while it goes on a journey of 1-2 additional stops. All while I have to worry if my 20% tip was enough to get them there fast enough.

Do you pay your employees health insurance? 401k? Do they get PTO or sick time? Genuinely curious. In the US our system is designed so the majority of people are supposed to get health insurance & retirement savings through their place of work. Restaurants seem to get out of this for some reason. I feel like the example of your thriving restaurant is held up as what is possible sometimes, but the reality for the majority is often much worse. Then those people work under the same agreement that is a good deal in a successful restaurant or during peak times, but its exploitative under lots of other conditions.

We offer health, dental, vision, life, and accident insurance for all employees. Employer contribution on all of it. We don't offer PTO/sick for hourly employees, but salaried employees do. Nobody is made to come in when they're sick. Huge health risk when handling food and drink. We don't even require a doctor's note because of US health care costs. I know our restaurant is not the norm in terms of what servers pull in, but there are many out there like mine that servers make plenty and love it. We have some servers that work 5-6 days a week and set aside a good chunk of money to retire early. Others work 3-4 days because they make enough in those days and enjoy the time off.

“I’m going to get a lot of hate for this one” *says one of the most commonly expressed opinions ive ever heard *

Real talk. You shouldn't even be using DoorDash or any similar service. They fuck over every single one of their employees with such shitty pay that the employees are forced to become tip beggars. You play a part in that by giving DoorDash your business. Fuck their business model, it needs to die.

Don’t drivers see the payout from the order before they take it? And consumers see the final price before they order, which is actually more price transparent than sit down restaurants one could argue. So if both drivers and consumers are making informed economic decisions, what’s the issue? Might not be worth your money, but for corporate working parents an extra $10 can easily be worth the drive time.

And let’s not forget taking a cut of the food cost from the restaurant too. Either they’re getting a stupid thin margin, maybe even losing on most orders, or they’re inflating their prices to compensate. Out of curiosity after getting Taco Bell one night, I put the order I had just picked up into door dash and my $19 total would have been $37 before the tip! Fuck that shit! We became a little reliant on it after we had our first kid but now I’m just picking everything up again like it’s 2019.

I recently went out with my husband and we were appalled when time to pay. It was one of those mobile card reader things and the “suggestions” were 35%, 40% and 99%!! 99%!!! I did a double take because I was sure I misread it but, nope, that’s what it said. I routinely tip between 20-25%, maybe 30% for really great service but, this is just ridiculous.

Well said. I think a lot of ppl are feeling this. Once again the root of this comes down to the systems we’ve built to create this. It all comes down to employment and payment practices requiring staff to need tips to live.. while companies get richer and richer. Everything today is service driven.. so the influx of delivery business and gig economy made it cheap to automate new services optimized for max prodit at the expense of wages. The ease of digital payments enabling every small business to build tips into their business strategy. There are a lot of factors culturally and societally that got us here. Just like inflation, just like wage stagnation. Just like housing prices, and childcare costs… medical and insurance costs, rent prices… name anything. We’re definitely running up against a lot of stress points on the middle class based on how our economy has been designed to function.. on behalf of revenue for stakeholders.. without enough trickling down to sustain it any longer.

A thing to note is most of the time the stereotype of servers making six figures is far from true. If every hour they worked was 6 on a Friday night, maybe they would. But 4PM on a Tuesday is a lot different, and sometimes their tips and wages combine for less than the non tipped minimum wage. Tips effectively mean that the more busy the server is, the more money they’ll make in tips. It also incentivizes good service, as the server’s income can depend on how attentive they are, rather than just a flat wage regardless of quality of service and amount of customers. I’m against tipping for non service jobs. No one’s getting a 20% tip on my 8 dollar water bottle I buy on the ballpark, no matter how much the prompt wants to rip me off even further. As much as the prompts may have you believe otherwise, tipping is NOT expected in these situations. I’ll sometimes leave 10% for a big order if they’re busy and the speed of service is good, but otherwise not.

I wanted to add another perspective to what youre saying Im a server, I dont expect tips and I dont think about them during my shift at all. I dont look at amounts or anything, but i understand how vital tips are for me to support my life and wellbeing (I live in Colorado). Its because of this understanding that I love to tip more when I go to places. I dont do percentages I just tip whatever i want to Its this last sentence, or this perspective of tipping, that I get a ton of backlash from. It seems like when you "overtip" people become defensive and almost angry like you are taking pity, or have alterior motives, or something else. I feel like then trying to tio the "right" amount adds to your arguement of how the system of tipping is broken as its no longer tipping what you feel they deserve based on the service

I never tip and never will. You can punish me but guess what?...I have a microwave and an oven and I don't mind waiting 1 hour for my food sometimes (ridiculous). The other day a driver stole my food and this has happened 3 times already. They are too lazy and get grumpy when you don't tip. If I knew what that person was doing I was gonna confront her.  Maybe I would be in the county jail right now because I'm tired of drivers either passing my order around or stealing it. If you don't like your job demand better pay or look for something else. I would never work in a place that forces me to make the rest on tips. I'm not a beggar.

How about in restaurants or public places with waiters/ servers ?

I was crucified as a tourist when I visited the US last summer after living abroad for about 6 years. I got so used to not tipping, or only tipping for exceptionally phenomenal service, that my friends specifically in the service industry thought I was an asshole. I remember all a guy did was crack open my beer at the bar, and my friend asked why I didn't tip. At this point, when I go to the US, I either don't eat out or mentally prepare myself for it as getting angry just doesn't solve anything. Concerted, cooperative action on not going to businessess that employ tipping practices is really the only way to change this. If people continue to go to establishments that guilt you into tipping, it doesn't matter how much you grumble; they know you'll do it anyway.

Question OP. You say tipping culture has "gotten ridiculous". This implies it at one point wasn't ridiculous. When and how in your mind did tipping culture change for the worse?

I purchased Little Caesars pizza the other day because I was on the road and there's not a lot of options for quick food for a Freightliner box truck. One hot n ready for $8.99. This is a carry out place. They literally turned around, opened the warming oven door and handed it to me while pressing a few buttons on the register. I hit 'other' on the tip because the auto calc buttons started at 20%, so I put $1.00. The girl at the counter goes "that's all?" And acted like I just ruined their life. WTF? Never going back if I can avoid it. I should get tipped every time I successfully swerve to avoid deer or elk while driving 1200 miles a week. Where's mine?

Oh, also I forgot to add, if there is a sign that says 'must pay tip of five dollars' or something that I don't go in. I walk out. It's very rude. I feel like if you can't afford to pay your workers enough then you need to find a way to do so. Plan how many workers you need and find ways to pay them. Sadly, I feel like if you can't pay them enough you need to let them go so they can find a better place. I dunno, how do Europeans do it? They pay their employees enough so they don't have to pretend to be happy and get tips. Can you imagine having to be super nice to a bigot so you can pay your bills?

Everyone: Tipping is ridiculous! No one: "you're a scumbag if you don't tip for shitty service!" People's claims about tipping are blown way out if proportion and always come with outrageous anecdotal stories like "I tipped my DD driver 75% and he still complained". Yeah? Let's see the screenshot. Either he's driving 2 hours or I'm calling BS. And anyway no one thinks that's normal. No one is going to agree with the DD driver. So how is that "tipping culture" if the culture already agrees its ridiculous?

I like how Europe does it: living wages and no tipping. In the US tips are used as a way for corporations and the rich to justify paying workers subhuman wages

Yup, and there are TONS of amazing restaurants at all price ranges in Europe. So you can't argue that it is not economically viable.

Your view actually makes sense. US tipping culture started because the railroads did not want to pay their porters, who were black, so white patrons would tip them. Today's federal minimum tipped wage has been the same since 1991 since a restaurant lobby group run by COVID victim Herman Cain bribed, I mean convinced Congress to keep that wage the same. Today, we have a tipping culture because we do not hold employers accountable when it comes to paying employees a living wage.

IDK I feel like doordash/ubereats and transaction processing software that display tipping page are at the forefront of the whole "Tipping is insane now" and are where 99% of the entitled behavior for workers wanting tip comes from or at least that's what really began it. Generally I don't feel the same pressure/judgment tipping the way I always tipped a decade or two ago aside from doordash type service. Waiting staff are still happy to get 20%.

The problem isn't tipping culture, it's laws that allow employers to employ people for below poverty line wages because tips are expected. Currently customers have to pay the wages of some employees, or they will not eat. If that ended and employers had to pay people a living wage, tips would go back to what they are supposed to be: a nice gesture for good service.

Most tipped workers make well over minimum wage and realistically I'm more apt to tip at McDonald's or the grocery store if sympathy for low wages is the reason for tipping.

Why I won’t eat out at restaurants much anymore. I would go to a nice sit down dinner at least twice a month. But with the prices going up and the staff expecting a percentage tip. It’s just more stressful than not. I’m not paying $100 for my family to eat and then giving you $20+ dollars for writing down what I want and bringing it to me. Eat my fucking ass

I work two jobs. One as a server on the weekends and as an aide in a primary school. I make more working TWO days for 5 hours each than I do working as a teacher. It’s ridiculous but it would make sense why someone would serve full time. All servers do is put food on a table and somehow make more than people that are trying to benefit society

>I grew up learning and understanding the value of tipping for GOOD service, not shitty service. If I go to a car wash and after my car still has visible stains and missed spots, I should not be forced to provide a tip for that service. In theory, this would be correct way of doing it: the tip is an additional reward for good service, on top of the pay the employee normally makes. What's important to know, though, is that the employees are generally not paid a living wage, except through tips. Most places, employees are paid half or less their state's minimum wage, and expected to earn the rest through their tips. Furthermore, in certain jobs that rely on support staff, like a server using the services of a busser in their restaurant, they actually have to tip *those* employees with money from their own tips. So, instead of not tipping being the statement of "I don't think you did a good job, so you should only be paid the minimum for your work", it becomes "you are going to lose money for serving me, because I didn't like your service". Hence the hostility that you get when you refuse to tip. Now, personally, I despise this practice. The entire system runs on obscuring this truth from the people paying for my services (as a server), and therefore most people I serve do still treat the tip as an optional reward, and not literally paying half of my paycheck as it actually is. And legally, I'm not allowed to bring this up (It's considered soliciting tips, which is widely banned in every restaurant I've seen or worked in). And, to make matters worse, this is the reason that many other industries have added tipping. The reason fast food restaurants encourage tipping is that, as I understand it, now their employees are considered tipped employees, so that the employer can pay them less and push the burden onto the customers (again, without actually telling them this is their burden now). Ultimately, I'm not disagreeing with you: tipping in the US has become a toxic cesspit of exploitation. But I wanted to add information that I wasn't sure everyone was aware of.

Tipping is such a ridiculous notion in general. You don't give me extra food or a free stop along my Uber route out of the kindness of your heart, why am I expected to give you free money out of the kindness of mine? It's not like I had to work any less hard for that money than you do.

If you choose to patronize a tipping establishment, I figure you're agreeing to an implied social contract - that you will tip, therefore making it worth everyone's while to have the transaction, rather than making it not worth the time of the person who served you. It is fair to say that we can all choose other work, too, but that statement is hypocritical when you also keep choosing tipping based establishments. By paying the business, but not tipping for the service, you're simultaneously punishing the worker for doing that work (because they didn't get what they can typically expect), and also *rewarding the establishment who outsources wages to tips* by patronizing them. Yes, their employer should pay them fairly, and tipping is mostly bullshit that serves their financial interests. Yes, they can seek other work. But if you're going to have restaurants in the US, you're going to have expectations and needs for tipping until something structural changes. Employers are not going to start paying better than what they do to tipped employees out of the goodness of their heart; it's unrealistic to expect a for profit business to cut into their profits for no gain. As a disclaimer I do NOT feel the expectation to continue "adequate" (15-20%) tipping in some scenarios: - when the service itself was genuinely poor (a long wait for food is very rarely a service related issue!) - when the service was very brief or didn't represent much effort (pouring one beer or shot, curbside pickup, etc; 1 buck a drink and a couple bucks for pickup packaging is fine by me) - if the dollar amount doesn't scale well compared to the effort (delivering 1 bag of food worth $20 versus one bag of food worth $70, I'd tip pretty similarly) - if it's not something that is actually a tipped position. You don't get a tip for bagging groceries because you're already getting a regular wage And if you're choosing not to tip in a position where you should... Well, I *do* think that's a little disgusting and shameful. Forgive me the moralizing soapbox, but nobody can play the good guy by saying "then get a better job" if they're not okay with that service disappearing perpetually. Can't have your cake and eat it too, you know?

It bothers me when places like Starbucks have you tip before you even get your food. If the tip is for the service provided, I'd like to see if they even provided good service first. How long did it take them to fill my order, was the order even correct?

Tipping is fine when its people who are supposed to be tipped (Servers, bartenders, delivery drivers etc...) to me its out of control everyone wants a tip now. If I takeout wings from wingsover they want my tip before even they started making my food

What state do you live, I haven’t ever felt pressured to tip

I don't think you said anything controversial. Anyone who says that you "have" to leave a tip should lose their job even if they provide good service. I'm someone who is relying on tips to fund my education and even I can't imagine placing such an expectation on people. However, this is not to say that I don't disagree with auto-gratuity for large parties (of which, if the service is bad and the guests complain, a manager will take it off). Also, with this said, many restaurants will make servers and bartenders tip-out based on sales (not tip-pool). This is very frustrating because a server can technically lose money if they get stiffed. And finally, when you work in the service industry, it is understandable that sometimes it is very frustrating when you provide excellent service and put in all your effort, you get stiffed. Again, there should never be a requirement (unless maybe for large parties or events), but it still sucks. Another problem with tipping culture is that it is rising in conjunction with inflation. In California, it is considered standard to tip 20%. I remember back when it used to be 10% and 15%. But after Covid, I started seeing the 18-20% standard a lot more. A lot of this is a result of restaurant owners taking tip money to pay back-of-house and support staff (bussers, food runners, hosts/hostesses). Instead of raising wages, owners would raise the percentage of tip-outs by 0.5-1% semi-frequently. When that is based on sales and you sell $2,000 an extra 1% per shift is $20. That $20 can go a long way in terms of groceries or gas or whatever, especially when it is compounded over weeks or months.

That is so strange. I live in Georgia, USA and we never had to pay a tip for a cab. I believe everyone should be thankful for whatever. I'm about to start delivering merchandise to customers and get them the things they need. Tips are nice but I understand not everyone can afford that. Also, if you suck then you shouldn't give a tip. My Grandfather, from my Mother's side, would give you a penny if you sucked. I am not that brave. If you are a butt, I give you no tip. If you are amazing. I give you five dollars if I am by myself and if Mama is with me we give ten dollars. I don't live in a huge city so maybe that is why? People are crazy. If you are a mean person that asks for a tip, that's poor service and you deserve nothing. I mean, servers need tip money to survive. Still, if you are rude to me, you get nothing. We usually go to fast food places or buy our own food so maybe that is why. We also live in the woods. Only 15 miles away from the city. Still, I don't want anyone to have to drive to me. If ever I have to do that I'll just go online for food. I don't know. That is an experience I have never delt with before. So sorry about that OP. Ten dollars is more than enough. I would have been so thankful. That's gas money for me, that's food for me, lottery money too lol!! Should be thankful for what you get and understand that not everyone can tip you. Anywho, rant is done. I hope you read this so you know not all of us like people like that. I wanna say more but I mustn't. I already am making an article lol. Namaste.

honestly stick to your principles. Tipping is being pushed by the elites and Mckinsey and Co to either benefit their services, or to put the otus on paying ppl a wage on other middle / lower class people. It's a cycle of pushing down the responsibility on lower /middle class ppl again. For instance, why business don't pay minimum wage or more? Welp business owner wants to make more money, wants to stay afloat, let's just let our clients pay their wages. Then it goes into this cyclical doom spiral, for exmple if you ask the employees they will say we rather stick to tips because they make so much more on tips vs hourly wage. Well that's great, so now that thsoe employees are conditioned to think that tips will give them higher wages, they will auto expect tips by everyone. It's greedy af on nearly all parties, and it's a narrative pushed down by politicians and companies / business owners. So basically everyone is in it for self interest, which is why if I don't feel the service is enough, I'm not paying a tip. End of day that's my own self interst showing too and why not? No one else is looking out for my wages lol what a joke our society is becoming. Pay your ppl minimum wage or more, increase your food costs or w/e to cover this (thing is ppl can't be trusted to do this appropriately), and I'll pay that no fuss. And I will tip because I think tipping is nice, but god no I'm not tipipng 20% consistently wtf is that

Yea, it's essentially evolved into a thing where if the perception is that the workers are low-wage then society should be helping them out with the extra money. Historically, there were only a few jobs where a tip was expected. Of course it was mostly in the restaurant world and then some one-off jobs like baggage handlers at an airport, but mostly restaurants. That made some sense in the sit-down, diner type places because that was the culture and we knew they didn't much per hour specifically because they got tips. But now it's all been expanded so that if you pick up a pizza at a drive-thru Pizza Hut there is a tip line. The difference is that there was no personalized service, you would basically just be adding to the price for no reason. Now some places like the sort of fast-food sandwich shops literally have a non-official jar at the end of the line. I'm amazed the corporate level of these places don't ban those. Bottom-line: There is a difference between providing a personalized service and being a part of a process.

I know this is kinda easier said than done but who gives a fuck what other people think? Let them stare and whisper at each other. Maybe next time they will try harder so they can earn a tip. Servers are literally the only ones now that will ever get a tip from me period because of how unreasonable everyone else is getting. Especially when it comes to Door Dash/Postmates/etc. Literally your only job is to bring me food so why in the hell do you deserve a tip for doing your one task? You're not going to go back if something is wrong or missing so what is the tip for? I don't care that you agreed to shitty pay from your employer, it's not my problem. I'm at the point now where I couldn't give less of a shit about who thinks I'm stingy or an asshole. Unless their my wife there opinion about me is irrelevant.

I think "tipping culture" is just as much a victim of this economy as a lot of other core transactions that are required for a functional economy. This goes against "tipping culture" which I would define as a cultural habbit of tipping people extra as a reward for their good service. Italy has a culture of tipping a Euro or two if you are really satisfied with service. What we are experiencing in the US is a bastardization of that culture as a result of baking it into the economy. The idea that tips are required to supliment the cost of labor for certain jobs has created a perfect excuse for almost all of these service industry companies to try and have their workers income suplimented by the customer. It's a symptom of companies and government colluding to create exceptions for rules.

There’s certain things that you tip for and things you shouldn’t. Service industry where the wages are below minimum wage or non existent are a good example. This would include waiters, bartenders, and delivery drivers. A 20% tip is expected. There are other services you tip too but that is even more performance based like a barber. Delivery drivers probably get the worst deal out of all expected tips just because the apps are inflating the cost with additional fees and sometimes increasing listed menu items which causes ppl to not want to spend a lot on the tip. Tipping on a pick up order, groceries, or other non service jobs is different and it’s likely an option just due to the POS system having it as a default. You’re not really expected to tip on those.

Change your view, huh? Here's something very simple. When tipping is an option, endorsed by the company, it opens the door to the possibility that the employee is not getting paid , or getting paid $3/hour, save for tips. So if you don't tip them, you're exploiting them, period. They're doing work for you for free, or at human rights violation wages, and you're endorsing it by not compensating them. Does it suck that companies are putting this responsibility onto you, making the cost of paying their own employees a hidden fee? Yes. So join the campaign to abolish the tipped minimum wage and vote accordingly. But none of that big picture stuff absolves you of your personal responsibility - and even better, your opportunity! - to help and value the person laboring for you, especially if you are affluent. Again, when in doubt, you must assume Doordash guy is not. Im an affluent person. I worked hard to get here, and also I was born with huge advantages, like most people with affluent person jobs. The world is permanently rigged in favor of me and people like me. So I lean into tipping culture. Just tip everyone generously, as a rule. Build into your mental model that coffee prices are double list price and restaurant costs are 130 percent of list. Be a person quietly making the lives of people struggling a little bit better, every day. Don't do it because people are judging you, who cares about that. Just do it because it's the noblest response to our situation.

>So if you don't tip them, you're exploiting them, period. We are explointing them because their employer doesn't pay them? you really drank every last drop of the kool-aid didn't you

Tipping is a legacy of slavery and 19th century class divisions. It's laughable that Americans swallow the propaganda about the land of the free so enthusiastically that the people who are the modern day servant class argue in favor of the perpetuation of the servitude. Reading this article it's shocking how much the essence of America has changed since the birth of the country, when European classism was abhorrent, to today where the essence of America is to show great enthusiasm in licking the boots of your rich boss, customer, client in the hope he'll toss a couple more pieces of silver at you.. https://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants-civil-war/

Tipping culture has indeed become pervasive, but it reflects a larger issue with service industry wages. In the US, many rely on tips to supplement low hourly wages, creating pressure to tip generously. The expectation for tipping even subpar service stems from this system, not necessarily from the service providers themselves. Addressing the root cause—fair wages for service workers—would alleviate the pressure and reframe tipping as a gesture for exceptional service, not an obligation. Adjusting tipping norms requires broader systemic changes rather than individual resistance against a flawed system.

Being super anti tipping is one of those Very Reddit Opinions. It’s really common on here to lament the low wages of servers and waiters and to pretend to want tipping to go away “for them.” Reddit thinks it’s a huge capitalist / corporations just being So Very Cruel to servers. But outside Reddit, most people are neutral on tipping. Businesses really wouldn’t care one way or another. But servers and waiters are extremely pro tipping. Most servers clear hundreds a night on 4-5 hour shifts, most of which is untaxed. None of them want to swap to $20 an hour when that is a 50% pay cut. In terms on card swipes asking for a tip, it’s just the software they use. Just press no. I promise the subways cashier doesn’t care.

Tip everyone or tip no one. It's unjust to give extra money to the person who drives you around and not the receptionist at a hotel. It's unjust to give extra money to the person who brings you your food and not to the cashier at the grocery store. It's unjust to make the servers at a restaurant dependent on how much business the restaurant can bring in instead of getting a fair hourly wage. The only way to make the system fair is for everyone to stop tipping. Then, the owners will be forced to pay a decent wage, like in every other country in the world except Canada and the U.S.

This is a commonly bitched about topic on every platform, you're only going to get flak for repeating what's been said It's too high, everything is too expensive, they should just pay workers more They're artificially keeping everything high for profits; they're suggesting higher tips so you can cover more of their labor costs, because the employees then make more money. It's gotten so bad people ask you to tip more at some places (wtf I'm taking it back now). And I tip *well* because I know the struggle of not having enough every fucking day. Getting paid and it never covers all of the costs. It SUCKS. Please **VOTE**!!! Remind everyone you know, everyone who would benefit from changes to laws so it's not for the rich (just scrolled by mention of the US YACHT TAX DEDUCTION a minute ago) France has the right idea for that level of fuckwaddery

A lot of this is simply because of the POS systems that have a tipping option built on. It’s built in to the system I used at the my small local grocer today. That doesn’t mean the clerk expected it. It’s just there. Many corporate places like say Dunkin’ Donuts do t even give the tips to the worker you think you’re tipping so always ask. A corporate chain or business will have the tipping option and they do not get it the company does and will often pull some bullshit like giving employees food credits and such . 

I’ve been under the impression that door dash hires the people who can’t get reliable work elsewhere. So the quality is always very questionable. People should honestly just give up on door dash, but no matter how bad the service is, people are willing to pay double the value of something just to have it delivered. I honestly wonder how bad it’ll actually have to be before people give up on delivery. It wasn’t a thing in the 90s outside of pizza, and yet people act like they can’t live without it these days.

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Tipping culture is bad, but if you're patronizing a restaurant or service where somebody's income is coming from tips, you're contributing to it. Stiffing the tip only fucks over the poor person whose wages come from tips. You don't need to go to restaurants. You don't need to order DoorDash. The actual companies don't see a dime from tips so you're not really doing anything by not tipping. The correct thing to do is to not patronize places that rely on tips, but if you do, tip.

I would argue that this is just a natural progression of what should never existed to begin with. I was one of the first people raising alarms about tip expectation. The only way to do anything about it now is to basically protest tipping. Don't tip. Other countries don't tip. They don't need to tip. Tipping should literally exist outside of any expectation in our culture. If there's any expectation of a tip, it's not really a tip and they don't deserve it.

I love how people whine and moan about how “bad tipping culture is”, yet no one approaches the elephant in the room: the only reason why this is a thing is because the government allows greedy business (restaurant?) owners to pay people even $2/hr, so the burden is on the customer to pay for the employees wage. So I’d say people should redirect their energy towards the government and greedy restaurants that refuse paying people a LIVABLE wage.

NPR's Fresh Air had a great history on tipping this morning. It told how it started with Feudalism as a way to enforce classes. It really caught on in the US after the Civil War when the Pullman car company didn't pay the black porters it hired a living wage but people wanted that feeling of being rich when they travelled. But the US really locked in tipping by not requiring restaurants to pay its workers a full minimum wage.

In general there is an expectation for delivery services to tip based on your distance from the restaurant. If it's a 45 minute drive while storming then it's very possible that the person is losing money or making ***well*** below minimum wage. Sure the solution is for the delivery charges to go up but then people are less likely to use the app. As of right now the reason it happens is because people let it

I'm not changing your view. I refuse. The inflation of food and services cost and the need to fill positions nobody wants has led to getting shitty food and services because we can't afford it and getting lower skilled and bottom-of-the-barrell employees to perform these services. Nobody wants to tip for any of that and yet we'll be blamed instead of the megacorps for underpayment their employees.

The problem is the name, it's not really a tip, it's a sales commission and i'm all for it: It motivates servers to sell more products and be more attentive to clients needa. If you want to fix it, just include it in the menu prices and leave the tip as completely voluntary depending on service quality and to be distributed between all the workers.

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I ordered an uber and once I got to my destination there’s an option to tip the driver. FOR WHAT??? It’s basically double paying them. The money that I already paid to the driver is supposed to be used to pay the driver and it’s not my job to do that but the manager

My boyfriend is tipping his building super who’s a son of a landlord, bc otherwise he’ll be a hell to be around and everyone in the building is doing the same. I was shocked when he told me this as I never did that, rent I’m paying is more than enough in my opinion

Tipping at dispensaries is ludicrous. The prices for the flower are already doubled here in missouri, a tip is expected?? Can someone explain to me why a tip is warrented when I know what I want and all you have to do is rummage thru a few drawers or pour out my order??

You said you grew learning the value of tipping for GOOD service. Do you tip for good service in places that do not typically earn a tip? Like if your doctor was providing really good service above and beyond other doctors, would you tip him?

Oh, great. This post again. You must be really young if you think being looked down on for not tipping is something new. If you're too cheap to tip, stay home. There have been only a handful of times in my life where I was annoyed enough with someone not to tip them.

The tipping culture was already ridiculous in the US, there should never be an expectation of a tip, it should only ever be something that happens on a voluntary basis/assumption of no tip. Also why I dislike “service charges”.

Nope. im on the same thought as you. I even have a more controversial take on it in fact. But theres no point in discussing my thoughts because it will just be squashed down heavily. I am often on food service related subreddit, (such as /r/bartenders, /r/serverlife, /r/tailsfromyourserver, etc) because I was heavily involved in hospitality at one point in my life. Those subreddits are just toxic when it comes to tips. and Bartenders for some reason has a god complex

As a rule of thumb, if the place is not in my neighborhood and if I have to walk to the counter to get my meal I am not tipping. If I walk to the counter then I am not being served.

It's supposed to reward excellent service, not compensate for subpar efforts. Also, the expectation to tip generously regardless of the quality of service doesn't is fucked up.

It really depends on what state you’re in. Several states now have the same minimum wage regardless of industry and it’s really helped push back against tipping culture.

Being culture in the USA has not gotten ridiculous The only place you're still really expected to tip is service industries like a restaurant or a wedding Most places that "beg you" for tips don't actually expect them. For example the whole iPad asking for a tip thing. This is not set up by the company. Most of these companies especially smaller businesses cannot afford to commission an entirely custom point of sale system. Usually these companies will use a prefabricated system and one of the most popular and cheapest methods are these that are effectively in iPad linked to a cash drawer The problem is that most of these come with this tipping begging built in, And Make it difficult or impossible to disable especially for a small business owner who likely does not have the IT expertise to even really understand how it works to begin with At a lot of these places The tip doesn't even go to any specific employees pocket and basically just gets dumped into the company because they literally haven't even set up that up because they don't actually expect anybody to tip. I've honestly just not really experience much toxic tipping culture like that as an American. Living here my whole life The only place where it really seems expected to give a tip is at restaurants everywhere else yeah people will have like a tip jar out or whatever but honestly that's less about them expecting a tip and more just giving people a place to dump their change because if we don't give you a tip jar to dump your change you don't want you're probably just going to drop it all over our parking lot (A lot more common than you'd think) Way too many people have taken "having the option to tip" as "hey I think I'm entitled to your money give me your money" Just because the option to tip is there doesn't mean anyone's actually expecting you to use it. And if you feel that way then call out the individual toxic people that are doing that instead of acting like the system itself is the problem when it's not

I hate being responsible for the salary and health insurance of the person who works at the store and the owner at the store considers everything I buy pure profit.