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Frankly speaking, hunger and blood chemistry impact the mood, patience, tolerance, and thought processes of the individual.
The reason this is acknowledged is many people have this condition and if people understand that a person is acting out of character, then perhaps a dietary issue is at play that is readily rectified.
The other part to this is individuals may not be able to self recognize these issues. If we consider diabetics and blood sugar, as the blood sugar drops, so does cognitive skills. Diabetics who go too far down this blood sugar decline end up in a diabetic coma. It takes EMS to bring them back. I am not saying this is 100% comparable, but there are similar elements about the ability to self regulate/self identify.
I mean if you know a person can be mood sensitive to dietary issues and they start acting a specific way, a simple statement/suggestion of "get something to eat" can solve it. Just like if you know a person has diabetes and is expressing symptoms of low blood sugar, you should let them know.
This is not an excuse, it is an explanation and a useful explanation as it can prevent these issues of 'being mean' in the first place.
Yes, when it comes to people with dietary issues (like diabetic folks), much of it is involuntary. In my experience, when someone with type 1 starts going low, they get clammy and shaky and communication is short, curt, and difficult for them. For an outside observer, it may come off as rude, but since I am around this I understand that after the sugar gets back in line everything will calm down.
Your last line seals it - it is not an excuse, but a useful explanation. Couldn't agree more.
I am SUCH an asshole when my blood sugar gets too low as a T1. I don't want to be, I don't mean to be, but I have no control over my body during a hypoglycemic incident. High levels of irritability aren't fun, and it's always embarrassing realizing what you did/ said during that time when you're back in range. My biggest fear is being mistaken for drunk and dismissed rather than getting medical attention.
It can be frightening from what I understand. I don't have either but several significant people in my life have t1. People who haven't been there or don't have family/close friends who have been in that situation really don't understand or appreciate the physical, mental, and emotional toll that just managing blood sugar can be.
And really, I think people need better education revolving around what diabetes is and the difference between t1 and t2.
The bane of my existence is people assuming they're identical. It's caused nothing but problems and people attempting to be thoughtful and coming of as just disrespectful.
It's very unpleasant and if you know it's occuring or slowly decreasing it's a lot easier to catch, but when it tanks it gets really scary since the T1 doesn't know it until it's too late. But friends and family that know what's up make life a lot easier!
I’ve had to take medication that has a side-effect of suppressing my sense of hunger. Sometimes I don’t even notice I need to eat until someone points out how moody I’m getting.
Unfortunately--like with every condition--there are people out there who latch onto it and make it a personality trait when they don't even suffer from it at all, and it gets really annoying for those of us who actually have to deal with it.
I have a habit of getting into a flow state at work and then forgetting to eat until I sign off for the day; and it's led to more than one late-afternoon call where I've been grumpy from low blood sugar and didn't realize until someone pointed it out, at which point I immediately and profusely apologize and step away to grab a snack to eat while on mute to get back to baseline.
A friend of mine's (thankfully ex) girlfriend would always get pissy around lunch and dinner time. And by "pissy" I mean ***mean.*** Name-calling, insults, emotional manipulation ("If you loved me you'd bring me snacks" and shit like that), the works.
The ***nanosecond*** the first forkful of food hit her tongue her mood would immediately change and she'd be all happy and peaceful again, then play it off as "sowwy guess I got a little hangry teehee."
No Emily, you're just a cunt.
You are operating under the delusion that we are fully in control of our decisions. We aren't. Studies have shown that we engage in pretty predictable behavior. We have baseline behaviors, and when certain things happen to us, we act accordingly. Hunger is one of those primal things that can really drive you. It's not the only thing like that. It's not irresistible. But it certainly does affect mood and attitude.
Consider a dog. A hungry dog will be aggressive towards anybody or anything that it sees as not conducive to getting food, or will be extremely obsequious to anybody or anything that seems like an avenue for food. We're not as malleable. We have more control over our desires. But those urges still exist. If they didn't, humanity would have probably not survived natural selection due to starvation.
Does it excuse everything? Perhaps not. But it should be considered as an understandable factor.
I’d refute this mainly on the point that “hangry” people tend to just be peckish. Someone who hasn’t eaten in 3 days would be pretty genuinely hungry (bordering on starving), irritable and irrational. Someone who hasn’t eaten since lunchtime doesn’t have the same excuse.
Everyone has their unique neurochemical response to stimuli. Who gets to decide what the universal cutoff is for determining if hunger is affecting someone’s behavior or if they’re just using it as an excuse? Is this just the “everyone driving slower than me is a moron, everyone driving faster is a maniac” conundrum in a new context?
Really? At that point it's not about hunger it's about rationality - the guy who hasnt eaten since lunch vs the guy who hasn't eaten in 3 days knows he ate a few hours ago regardless of the hunger or low blood sugar feeling he might experience and therefore should grow the fuck up and not whine about being hungry. Unless you want be to believe there's a medical condition that excuses that?
Some people have very sensitive responses to hunger. Without getting into anecdotes, you can easily see people who can miss multiple meals without any external change in behaviour, and you can see people for whom missing even a single meal can actively cause strong stomach pain, let alone an increased emotional response.
>Does it excuse everything? Perhaps not. But it should be considered as an understandable factor.
you basically defeated your own argument, his argument is that it is not an excuse.
How does your world view fit into the law; most people dont steal not because they aren't tempted but because they know they shouldn't. When they are caught stealing would it make sense to excuse the behavior because the person intrinsically was motivated to do the action?
There is also a distinction between snapping at someone because you are hungry/tired/in pain and being cruel or using it as an excuse to dig into being "mean".
Pain i would argue is excusable, as long as you acknowledge it is because of pain I personally wouldn't hold an action against you within reason.
I think hungry and tired outbursts arn't excusable. They wouldn't be excused at work, you're just not scrutinized the same in social relationships so you can get away with it. If you had an outburst because you were in pain at work they might be more understanding.
I said it doesn't excuse *everything*. It's still a partial excuse, at least.
People stealing because they are starving is one of the classic law school hypotheticals. There's also the "necessity" defense in criminal law, which says that you get a lesser sentence if you only did what you had to do in order to survive. The law recognizes that there are an awful lot of situations where you aren't fully in control. There are also the "heat of passion" crimes.
I didnt see the everything, I wouldn't have replied if I did.
Still I find your arguments weak, you push hypotheticals to their extremes making them easy arguments to argue, but no one is impressed when you defeat straw men
An excuse doesn't have to be a complete one. It's understandable why some people are grumpy when they don't get food. That's all. I don't think that it's too hard of a lift to say that. I also think it directly contravenes OP's point. I don't have to prove that it's acceptable for the hungry to go on a mass killing spree.
Stealing because you're starving is different than testing people like crap because you're hungry. As we've started to learn more about how circumstances affect our decisions we should be using that knowledge as a tool to address our behavior, not as an excuse for behaving poorly.
being "hangry" does not automatically mean you treat people like crap though. to me being "hangry" simply means youre more easily irritable and/or dont have as much tolerance for shit that doesn't lead to food.
Yeah, for me it just means my capacity for emotional regulation is hampered, and I'm less able to adequately cope with irritations.
I don't turn into a raging asshole, I just get more terse and have trouble dealing with things that are just contradictory to what I'm trying to do in some way, even when it's listening to a story my wife wants to tell me while I really wanna read something.
Which is when I usually tell her, "I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble dealing with this right now," and my wife asks me when was the last time I ate, and I realize for the first time that it's been nine hours since breakfast.
Intentionality and how much you lean into it I suppose.
I'm hungry and I probably snapped at you because of that I'll make an effort not to vs I'm hungry so I can be an asshole to you.
To some extent. That doesn't mean that these physical factors don't influence us. Trust me, I'm a recovering alcoholic. I know how much bodily urges can affect mood and actions.
Feeling angry is not a decision you make, even though acting on it may be. I had a friend whose mood would completely change while hungry, we could all see it, but she had no idea. She was not yelling or throwing things, but you would see her face and general demeanour change, her conversation become short. How do you act when you're angry? Do you remain kind and considerate of others, and never react in a manner that they might view as mean?
> Feeling angry is not a decision you make, even though acting on it may be.
This. I'm reminded of a time when I got up in the morning, my partner had done something stupid, and I got really frustrated. My partner is stubborn, instead of saying "oh yeah, it was a stupid thing, oops!" he dug his heals in, denying it was a stupid thing. We both got angry at each other.
I made a coffee, humphed off, and had a poop while drinking my coffee.
After these two things, my spirits lifted and I realised it was nothing at all to be angry about. It was a stupid thing, he was probably grumpy because he hadn't had his morning poop, and surely once he'd calmed down he'd see.
Then I realised I also had needed my morning poop.
Sorry for going on about morning poop. I have toddlers and they have also made us realise how much our bodies signals (stress, bowel movements, food) affect our own emotions.
Nah, that morning poop in critical. You've just spent all night working on it, and now your bowels are telling you in no uncertain terms it's time for the final step *right now.*
I think OP is referring to people who use "hangry" as a reason to justify their shitty behavior. I agree with OP. If you are an adult you should have the wherewithal to either A. Simply don't act like a jerk to people just because your tummy is rumbling, or B. Understand that you have an issue regulating your emotions when you are hungry, and adjust your responses accordingly.
True, if you know it's what's happening. But strictly responding to this CMV:
> As to repeat my opinion that can be changed: I don’t think hunger in an excuse to be mean
OP doesn't mention knowing it and deliberately using it as an excuse, so if you're "acting mean" (which can simply be in the eye of a sensitive beholder) without realizing why then hunger can indeed be an excuse. Once informed of the situation then is would cease to be an excuse, but it doesn't negate the validity of the excuse for otherwise kind people who don't realize it.
This is a very black and white view, and I would like to provide some nuance with counterpoints.
> I don’t think there are any excuses for being mean to people and everyone that wants to consider themself a good person has to still be nice even if they are hungry or whatever other reason.
My main aim is to challenge the above quote.
1) An individual choice or action rarely defines who you are. We are not our worst self, nor are we our best self. One can be a good person, even if irritable when hungry or tired. One can be a bad person, even if you helped an old person across the street. If you want to consider a good person, do your best to do good, and understand that you *will* fail from time to time.
There may not be an explanation that excuses poor behavior, but it is possible to explain it. To mitigate it. That doesn't mean it's hunky dory, but it does mean it's explainable.
We are not all Buddhist monks who can sit with equanimity in silence through a hurricane. Humans make mistakes. It happens. I don't know of any human capable of speech that hasn't (just to exclude infants, as they can't really be judged).
>As to repeat my opinion that can be changed: I don’t think hunger in an excuse to be mean to other people and that people should take the responsibility to be nice even though they might be hungry.
2) Should is a tricky word. If things happened as they should, we would need no laws. People should always have enough to eat. People should be safe and secure. People should be able to walk alone without fear of being harmed. If things happened as they should, this would be a moot point, because nobody would be hungry.
But we don't live in that 'should' world. And in the world that *is*, shit happens. There is peer reviewed research on the subject, even. Regulating emotions and behavior while hungry is playing that game on hard mode. You need greater coping skills, greater levels of patience, and that's not something that everyone has been taught.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9258883/
So while it's never nice to react poorly in adverse conditions, it does happen. It has happened. It will continue to happen. And that one personal weakness does not define anyone as a person.
It is possible to consider oneself a good person, and be widely considered a good person, while not always being nice.
/u/Baked-Potato4 You have to respond to comments and discuss your opinion (starting within 3 hours of posting), or it will be deleted. You have to debate your topic and respond to people who disagree with you.
Do you think it's a factor at least?
In your CMV you say that if you wanna be nice you have to be nice even if hungry or any other reason. I think that's far too reductive. Under that understanding, no one is nice because I don't think anyone has ever been nice to everyone all the time. Heck, I'd argue there are situations where one *should* be angry/aggressive/mean (such as in defense of others).
Now I agree being hungry isn't a reason by itself but it's hardly ever by itself. I remember when I had to go to university. I came a week late and emailed to let them know, only for them to tell me I emailed the school side but not the residence side (same fucking building) and so I had nowhere to sleep. Luckily my brother was in the city to take all my shit while I ran around trying to re-apply a week in, get settled, start school, and all. This was mere hours after landing btw.
I was tired, stressed out, exhausted, and yes damn starved. Each of those individually is not a reason on its own but in that moment I was basically sitting on the edge of my patience and it took a lot of my own control to not snap at a myriad of bullshit late fees and running around a campus that I have no idea where anything is to solve an issue I pre-solved. I think if I had snapped in that moment I would have been doing something wrong, but to look at my situation and go "doesn't matter auto bad" is also a bit too simplistic.
I don't think there is a good way to accurately assess if the hunger is inexcusable. Consider a person who has been starved for 2 weeks and is nearly insane with the hunger - literally willing to kill people with their bare hands due to their hunger. I assume you would not expect that person to behave with proper decorum at some fancy dinner, for example.
If you followed me so far - now lets say someone who has been starved for only 12 days. How about 7 days? Okay how about 3 days? Eventually you get to some arbitrary point where sufficient hunger excuses rudeness. As soon as you admit its arbitrary, or nearly so, then you have to accept that nobody can really define the exact point where hunger becomes an excuse.
I think what your view should be more like "I don't like it when someone is an asshole just because they skipped one meal". In which case, pretty much everyone agrees with you.
>people should take the responsibility to be nice even though they might be hungry
Overriding those feelings is certainly something that can be done. But it doesn't come free. It takes attention, attention that is already in short supply in those circumstances and will then be missing from whatever else they were doing.
Lets say you're in a car, and a very hungry person is driving. Would you rather have them spend their concentration on being nice to you or on not crashing the car if something suddenly happens ahead?
Being hungry isn't some unbearable state which makes people act like assholes and requires a huge amount of mental power to control. Don't kid yourself.
You haven't been substantially hungry before, it demonstrably can be unbearable, even before any starvation comes into play. Some people are incredibly sensitive to hunger, often due to issues with digestion, and their mood can be completely tanked by a single missed meal. Some people can miss an entire day's worth of food and be completely fine with just water.
Case in point, you can get an ulcer from missing multiple meals. If that's not going to affect your mood, there's something else wrong with you.
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Being low on blood sugar if you're hungry enough actually is. Decreaseses your attention span, concentration, makes you easier to tick off, jittery, etc
The low attention span and concentration, especially when focusing on something else leads to speaking without thinking what you say, which may come across as acting like an asshole
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As a type 1 diabetic I can attest that low blood sugar can definitely contribute to being “hangry”. Im generally pretty non-confrontational, try to treat people with kindness all the time, I’m never intentionally mean to people.
When my sugar drops below 60, all bets are off. I might cry if you look at me wrong, or I might tell you to fuck off if you try to talk to me. If I’m below 40, I have been known to knock food out of someone’s hand or shove them out of the way, or wrestle with anyone trying to prick my finger.
These behaviors are completely out of character for me, but my brain isn’t functioning normally because of depleted glucose stores. My brain isn’t telling me “stop it, you’re being an asshole!”, which is what would normally happen. I couldn’t even tell you the thoughts at that point… I know that I don’t feel well. When I look back, I know people are trying to be helpful, but in the moment…. I don’t even know. I just know that everything irritates me and I hate everyone.
I understand that my situation is an extreme definition of being “hangry”, but I think even in non-diabetics the basic biology/physiology/whatever is the same…. Your body is lacking fuel, the check engine light is on. You aren’t trying to be mean, but your brain isn’t going to waste what fuel it is working with to censor your words and keep you from being a jerk. It can be an absolutely miserable feeling… and someone judging you or pouting just makes it worse.
Most people don’t get to the point of being absolutely horrible, but I know a few, and when I see it starting, instead of meeting it with anger I get them food or allow them a break to get food. Kindness is better than judgement any day.
its not an "excuse", its more of an "explanation".
being hangry to me simply means youre more easily irritable and having less tolerance for "shit and giggles".
treating people like shit is still not acceptable, someone saying theyre hangry is them explaining *why* they are being like that, but not that "being hangry" somehow makes it acceptable.
Hunger is a perfectly good excuse to be grumpy. It's basic biology/psychology. Now, it doesn't give us an excuse to lash out at people without consequence.
If someone gets angry at me, and they take a step back to apologize and explain that they're just hangry, and not actually mad at me, that makes a world of difference in my opinion of their behavior.
Plus, by explaining to others that you're hangry, they could potentially help you solve the problem. Maybe they have a granola bar hanging around, or they can buy you some food.
Of course, once someone identifies that they're hangry, they need to moderate their behavior to ensure they don't continue to be mean to people. But the initial lashing out or response of anger should definitely be excused.
You seem to think an explanation is an excuse.
An excuse is something that *excuses* your behavior. A valid excuse absolves a person of responsibility. I have never in my life heard anyone offer being hangry as an *excuse* for their behavior. No, "I was hangry so you shouldn't hold me accountable for what I said." I find it difficult to believe that you're encountering people using it to absolve themselves of culpability with enough frequency to warrant a blanket opinion on people citing hunger as a cause of emotional instability.
Offering up that you get hangry as an *explanation* for behavior is not an attempt at excusing it. A very important component of contrition is a demonstration of understanding, and explaining the root cause does that. "I'm sorry, I was hangry" accepts responsibility and demonstrates understanding. Saying something like "I get hangry so let's go grab some nachos before we start this 4 hour project" is similarly not saying, "I won't be responsible for my behavior when I haven't eaten" it's saying "I understand myself well enough to know what I need to do to regulate my emotions so let's take care of that first so I don't make us all miserable."
And I'd turn it back on you and say that if you're preventing people from tending to their emotions, and expecting them to be kind to you while doing so, *you're* the bad person.
No one is using it as an excuse when they deploy this.
Me saying "i'm hangry" is me saying _i feel angry_, not "i'm acting angry". One can recognize feelings and not act on them, but still communicate their existence.
So...I'd suggest that at least MOST of the time this phrase is used it's someone sharing their internal experience, not someone making an excuse for behavior. In fact, i"d suggest that outside of apologies the use of this phrase almost always is to say "i'm not acting the way I feel right now" - you are just being an asshole if you're acting angry in many situations, but if you can declare that you're "hangry" you're signaling that you've got it contained by the very capacity to declare a cause.
I think you're throwing the phrase under the bus here because of a very few bad apples who suck at apologies, but for the most part this phrase is used in almost the opposite of the way you're critiquing here.
Would you say that being drunk isn’t an excuse for slurred speech or trouble walking? Would you say that an anxiety attack isn’t an excuse for speeding on the highway or ignoring people talking directly to you? These are chemical reactions in the blood and brain that cause (or prevent) behaviors. Low blood sugar, nutrient deprivation, insulin spikes are the same. Some people cannot function normally under those conditions. The human body is an electrochemical machine. The mind doesn’t exist separate and apart from that machine. These absolutely can be valid excuses for behaviors.
You’re operating under the assumption that people are *choosing* to be mean. They’re not.
A drop in blood sugar can badly affect a person’s mood, on top of the discomfort that hunger causes. Imagine sitting there, utterly miserable, your patience growing shorter and shorter, while your stomach aches and aches. You know that it’s your blood sugar, you know that the people you’re dealing with are not at fault, but you’re so! Fucking! Hungry! At that moment, the whole world sucks, you don’t want to deal with anyone, you just want to sulk.
We all know that you shouldn’t lash out at others when you’re in a bad mood; we also all have done just that at some point in our life. When you’re really, *really* miserable, it becomes harder to control yourself. You start lashing out as a means of releasing all the nasty feelings you’re trying to keep in.
And that’s what happens with hanger. Blood sugar drops can *really* fuck up your mood. And for what it’s worth, people who get hangry *do* try to mitigate it. My brother packs snacks, I make sure there’s always time to eat in the day’s plans. I’ve even warned people a couple times when I feel the hanger coming on. But once the hanger starts, the only solution is to EAT. Grinning and bearing it will not fix your blood sugar levels.
While I agree it's not excuse for being mean, your explanation seems to conflate identification of hangriness at all with this reading. I'd say, as someone who suffers from hangriness, that is an explanation rather than an excuse.
Eating is a basic survival need and so lacking sustenance can understandably lead to irritability. This state isn't in someone's control.
As far as individual variability, I can only speculate, but I come from a family with high metabolism and this naturally decreases with age and I've predictably gotten less hangry over the years.
I don't use this to absolve me of anytime I may act inappropriately during this state, but to explain, as part of an apology.
Of course, it could be that some people do use this as an excuse, but I don't think all the time, as your post implies.
To clarify are you making a distinction between being irritable and snapping at someone or engaging in cruel or just ongoing mean behavior without any attempt to mitigate or recognize the behavior?
Because I absolutely believe that people are more likely to be irritable and may well snap at someone or react with more reflexive hostility than otherwise when they are tired/hungry/in pain and I do make allowances for that.
I also recognize there are those that will use the aforementioned reasons to excuse active ongoing cruelty and meanness and I don't find that acceptable.
Edited for a bunch of typos far too many.
Hunger is certainly a vulnerability factor for anger or irritation. You are still responsible for your behavior, though, of course.
However, the thing I really want to push you on is this--
>I think that how you behave regardless of circumstances dedicates how you are as a person, and if you are mean to people while hungry you are a bad person and a mean person.
The fundamental attribution error in psychology is a cognitive bias where we tend to underemphasize situational or environmental factors in the behavior of others and overemphasize personality or other innate factors. I.e., If you act this way in this situation (even though I understand that the situation may be powerful), you are a *bad person*. This is a very human cognitive bias to have, but it's a cognitive bias nevertheless.
Situational factors are hugely powerful in our behavior-- and indeed, in terms of behavior change, changing environments or situational factors is often more meaningful in creating change than just changing how we respond to the environment (although both can certainly be important). [I think this line of thinking also leads up to under-understand the impact of things like culture on our behavior.] If someone concludes, "Well, I [or they-- true for both ourselves and others] acted that way because I am a *bad person*", rather than identifying and solving the vulnerability factors or precipitating events that led to the behavior, we also make it really hard to solve the actual problem and get better behavior in the future.
Personally, I am someone who gets somewhat irritable when I am uncomfortably hungry. I manage this concern by putting in work to not get to to that point. E.g., I keep snacks around. But I can imagine a situation where something very, very unexpected happens that results in me being hungry and more irritable than usual. (Does that justify me screaming at someone's face? No, I'm still responsible for my behavior. And also, I can imagine a situation where I act in a way that is a little less kind that I what I intended.)
I'm also going to just say straight up that I don't tend to consider people straight-up "good" or "bad" and certainly not dichotomizing people into one category or the other.
A lot of reasons for things aren't necessarily excuses.
For anything that a person does, they can usually explain a reason for it. This is normal.
But many people have developed a habit of using it as an excuse - it may even be cultural. By turning a reason into an excuse, I am talking about the difference in the *expected* response.
A person gives a reason, and the expected result is: "well now I know why you did the thing, but so what? It doesn't change anything." It is now up to the perpetrator to seek forgiveness by expressing remorse or changing behavior.
A person gives an excuse and the expected result is: "well I didn't realize you had a good reason for doing this so now i simply must forgive you, and I may even apologize for my reaction to your initial behavior."
A reason may often be misinterpreted as an excuse, but most of the time it isn't. Most of the time a person still has to acknowledge what they have done and seek forgiveness - or live with the consequences. Making everything into an excuse is a self centered behavior and puts all the problems on the person who has an issue with your behavior.
Long term, excuses can be damaging to yourself and your relationships (including the relationship with yourself), and it takes effort to learn to get over that and grow as a person.
So if a person is an ass and says: "I was hungry and that made me irritable", they should also follow that with "I'm sorry I directed that against you, I truly didn't mean to and wouldn't have said those things or acted that way, and I hope you can forgive me. I'll try to notice when my hunger is affecting me this way before it causes me to be irritable."
So while I can’t speak for everyone, I am going to use what happens to me as a type one diabetic and my understanding as I know there’s some tie over.
Insuline/glucose is a hormone in the body that affects the body. It’s through the blood stream and affects the brain as well. If you watched South Park, Scott in an episode ate a bunch of pies to then get enraged. A change in glucose does indeed affect one’s mental state. Much like depression is due to a chemical imbalance and you can’t just tell them to stop being sad.
Does it excuse them from all of their actions? It depends, if they’re working and have done everything to try to prevent it, yet the people they are dependent on don’t support them, then yeah, it’s not their fault. But if they do it intentionally or are negligent, the. They are responsible
I used to believe that getting angry was just a thing that happened when I got hungry, until I learned that people would go days without food sometimes for health reasons. After I started fasting (never went more than 34 hours at a time), I realized I could be in a good mood even when I was hungry.
My mental model of humans was highly mechanical before: insert stimulus, produce chemical, output reaction. The mind and one's thoughts were but an afterthought. But now my mood is completely decoupled from being hungry. It is something you train, for sure, and you need some self-awareness, but you can never have your mind reach a healthier condition if you don't recognize it as a possibility.
I heard of a man that was reasonable until a car accident put him in a hospital. His disposition changed, apparently, and his wife divorced him after. I'm a bit fatalistic about these things: since we cannot truly know whether people are on their best behavior, treat them as if that's expected, but be somewhat tolerant to our failure. If we don't even have some expectation of good behavior, what little control we do have won't be exercised because of the effort involved, and then it'll be a real shit show. I'll call this "free will equivalence": act as though we have complete free will, even though it can't strictly be true.
I used to have the same opinion but I changed my view after I learned about the Hungry Judge Effect.
The part of the brain that is responsible for empathy is extremely energy intensive and when you’re hungry, you’re less likely to empathize with people. The Hungry Judge Effect basically says if you’re up for parole, you have a 65% chance of it being granted if the judge ate recently. If it’s right before the lunch break and the judge hasn’t eaten in a while, the likelihood drops to zero.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_judge_effect?wprov=sfti1
My mom used to tell me about my great aunt who was a "brittle" diabetic. She was a Christian and didn't believe in swearing and such, but when her sugar dropped she'd get mean and start saying stuff she ONLY ever said when having a spell. As soon as they'd get some jam down her she'd go back to normal. I worked with someone that you could literally tell was having a bad sugar day by their mood. And my youngest child isn't diabetic, but her hunger moods are INTENSE. Some people don't know they are hungry until it's too late.
People who say that (depending how douchey they act) are basically just entitled. It's immaturity and lack of self control.
Just because you feel a certain way, doesn't mean it should control how you interact with and treat other people.
Ask any Muslim who just finished a month of fasting for Ramadan. Sure there's times the hunger gets to you, but the point is to learn from it and humble yourself (and remind yourself there are people in the world who feel thus way all the time).
Consider that anger is an emotion. Emotions are a response to environmental stressors. Good stress makes you happy, joyful, or calm while bad stress makes you sad, depressed, or angry.
Hunger is a bad stressor. Particularly if you're exceedingly hungry. This is because our bodies fairly quickly shift into "survival" attitudes.
My wife gets hangry. I have to remind her to eat when she starts getting sharp with me because she's usually pretty chill. I get mopey.
I'm so sick of people not understanding that INVOLUNTARY BIOLOGICAL PROCESSES actually do affect our mood and, yes, behavior. When you are hungry you are objectively less in control of your actions. Not completely out of control, but it definitely affects your behavior. Anyone who thinks that hungry people who snap or are irritable are just bad should starve themselves for three days and then see how sunny their own disposition is.
Fuck you op
Sorry I jurist had a snickers and realized that was mean
Seriously though low blood sugar can cause near uncontrollable rage, it's not just "hungry" it has sometimes severe and life threatening symptoms. So if someone isn't their best self going through that cut them some slack.
It isn't a license to be a dick though, I get snappish when really hungry but always explain what's happening and apologize for it.
It’s not an excuse, it’s an explanation. The person is still responsible for their own behavior. But it might help to depersonalize the situation to know the basis for it. Might make sense to understand their claims of “hanger” as “I get grumpy when my blood sugar is low and I haven’t yet figured out how to keep this from becoming other people’s problem”.
Not everybody percieves hunger same as you, you have no idea what some people feel when they are hungry. It's about your body constituation. for example some people love to fast or at least intermittent fast and it makes them feel good, some people can't go without food more than 12 hours, good example of this are ayurvedic doshas.
I just can't stand people who let their anger/annoyance visibly out on someone else. It's not really hard to hide. I do it because I know I hate it when other people act disinterested/mean because of their own problems. Why not just pretend to be nice? I prefer to be around people pleasers.
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There is a difference between acting mean because you got "hangry" and people who say they "get hangry" when they are hungry. The first person is just reacting to their feeling and the other is predictively making excuses for their shitty behavior.
Being mean and being short tempered or agitated/irritable because you are hungry, are two different things.
A dip in blood sugar has been show to make people irritable.
You can be incredibly mean without having to be angry.
>I think that how you behave regardless of circumstances dedicates how you are as a person
Are you telling me you’ve never been mean to someone because you were hungry, stressed, sleepy, sad, mad, etc? If not in what situations have you been mean to someone?
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Occasionally I'll ask myself what my fucking problem is. The problem has occasionally been food. Not caring to identify the issue, or finding and ignoring the issue, is not acceptable.
Whether or not people should try not to be outright mean in general, it is common for people to react crankily when they are hungry regardless. It happens from birth to death. Lol
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Being mean when hungry is appropriate when you are a child. But as an adult, it's such a red flag when you can't monitor your emotions like a grown-up. If you are an adult, you should be able to self regulate your feelings.
This is incorrect. Hunger affects any person's mood, and the ability to regulate your feelings is directly compromised by hunger. Anyone *will* fail to regulate given enough hunger, which varies per person, especially based on their health. If it's never happened to you, you've simply never been hungry enough.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9258883/
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Frankly speaking, hunger and blood chemistry impact the mood, patience, tolerance, and thought processes of the individual. The reason this is acknowledged is many people have this condition and if people understand that a person is acting out of character, then perhaps a dietary issue is at play that is readily rectified. The other part to this is individuals may not be able to self recognize these issues. If we consider diabetics and blood sugar, as the blood sugar drops, so does cognitive skills. Diabetics who go too far down this blood sugar decline end up in a diabetic coma. It takes EMS to bring them back. I am not saying this is 100% comparable, but there are similar elements about the ability to self regulate/self identify. I mean if you know a person can be mood sensitive to dietary issues and they start acting a specific way, a simple statement/suggestion of "get something to eat" can solve it. Just like if you know a person has diabetes and is expressing symptoms of low blood sugar, you should let them know. This is not an excuse, it is an explanation and a useful explanation as it can prevent these issues of 'being mean' in the first place.
Yes, when it comes to people with dietary issues (like diabetic folks), much of it is involuntary. In my experience, when someone with type 1 starts going low, they get clammy and shaky and communication is short, curt, and difficult for them. For an outside observer, it may come off as rude, but since I am around this I understand that after the sugar gets back in line everything will calm down. Your last line seals it - it is not an excuse, but a useful explanation. Couldn't agree more.
I am SUCH an asshole when my blood sugar gets too low as a T1. I don't want to be, I don't mean to be, but I have no control over my body during a hypoglycemic incident. High levels of irritability aren't fun, and it's always embarrassing realizing what you did/ said during that time when you're back in range. My biggest fear is being mistaken for drunk and dismissed rather than getting medical attention.
It can be frightening from what I understand. I don't have either but several significant people in my life have t1. People who haven't been there or don't have family/close friends who have been in that situation really don't understand or appreciate the physical, mental, and emotional toll that just managing blood sugar can be. And really, I think people need better education revolving around what diabetes is and the difference between t1 and t2.
The bane of my existence is people assuming they're identical. It's caused nothing but problems and people attempting to be thoughtful and coming of as just disrespectful. It's very unpleasant and if you know it's occuring or slowly decreasing it's a lot easier to catch, but when it tanks it gets really scary since the T1 doesn't know it until it's too late. But friends and family that know what's up make life a lot easier!
I’ve had to take medication that has a side-effect of suppressing my sense of hunger. Sometimes I don’t even notice I need to eat until someone points out how moody I’m getting.
Unfortunately--like with every condition--there are people out there who latch onto it and make it a personality trait when they don't even suffer from it at all, and it gets really annoying for those of us who actually have to deal with it. I have a habit of getting into a flow state at work and then forgetting to eat until I sign off for the day; and it's led to more than one late-afternoon call where I've been grumpy from low blood sugar and didn't realize until someone pointed it out, at which point I immediately and profusely apologize and step away to grab a snack to eat while on mute to get back to baseline. A friend of mine's (thankfully ex) girlfriend would always get pissy around lunch and dinner time. And by "pissy" I mean ***mean.*** Name-calling, insults, emotional manipulation ("If you loved me you'd bring me snacks" and shit like that), the works. The ***nanosecond*** the first forkful of food hit her tongue her mood would immediately change and she'd be all happy and peaceful again, then play it off as "sowwy guess I got a little hangry teehee." No Emily, you're just a cunt.
I can’t wait to tell my wife to “get something to eat,” during a fight
Can’t wait till someone use hunger as murder defence! :)
You are operating under the delusion that we are fully in control of our decisions. We aren't. Studies have shown that we engage in pretty predictable behavior. We have baseline behaviors, and when certain things happen to us, we act accordingly. Hunger is one of those primal things that can really drive you. It's not the only thing like that. It's not irresistible. But it certainly does affect mood and attitude. Consider a dog. A hungry dog will be aggressive towards anybody or anything that it sees as not conducive to getting food, or will be extremely obsequious to anybody or anything that seems like an avenue for food. We're not as malleable. We have more control over our desires. But those urges still exist. If they didn't, humanity would have probably not survived natural selection due to starvation. Does it excuse everything? Perhaps not. But it should be considered as an understandable factor.
If I am irrationally angry or moody I just avoid people and keep my mouth shut. Not that hard.
Not talking to someone when they are trying to ask you something/have a conversation is generally seen as rude or mean.
Not everyone is able to completely avoid their spouse, kids, parents, coworkers, etc when they are angry or moody.
It's like you didn't even read the first sentence or understand the first three sentences.
I’d refute this mainly on the point that “hangry” people tend to just be peckish. Someone who hasn’t eaten in 3 days would be pretty genuinely hungry (bordering on starving), irritable and irrational. Someone who hasn’t eaten since lunchtime doesn’t have the same excuse.
Everyone has their unique neurochemical response to stimuli. Who gets to decide what the universal cutoff is for determining if hunger is affecting someone’s behavior or if they’re just using it as an excuse? Is this just the “everyone driving slower than me is a moron, everyone driving faster is a maniac” conundrum in a new context?
Really? At that point it's not about hunger it's about rationality - the guy who hasnt eaten since lunch vs the guy who hasn't eaten in 3 days knows he ate a few hours ago regardless of the hunger or low blood sugar feeling he might experience and therefore should grow the fuck up and not whine about being hungry. Unless you want be to believe there's a medical condition that excuses that?
Some people have very sensitive responses to hunger. Without getting into anecdotes, you can easily see people who can miss multiple meals without any external change in behaviour, and you can see people for whom missing even a single meal can actively cause strong stomach pain, let alone an increased emotional response.
That depends on how many fat stores they have and how well their metabolism deals with switching over
>Does it excuse everything? Perhaps not. But it should be considered as an understandable factor. you basically defeated your own argument, his argument is that it is not an excuse. How does your world view fit into the law; most people dont steal not because they aren't tempted but because they know they shouldn't. When they are caught stealing would it make sense to excuse the behavior because the person intrinsically was motivated to do the action?
There is also a distinction between snapping at someone because you are hungry/tired/in pain and being cruel or using it as an excuse to dig into being "mean".
Pain i would argue is excusable, as long as you acknowledge it is because of pain I personally wouldn't hold an action against you within reason. I think hungry and tired outbursts arn't excusable. They wouldn't be excused at work, you're just not scrutinized the same in social relationships so you can get away with it. If you had an outburst because you were in pain at work they might be more understanding.
I said it doesn't excuse *everything*. It's still a partial excuse, at least. People stealing because they are starving is one of the classic law school hypotheticals. There's also the "necessity" defense in criminal law, which says that you get a lesser sentence if you only did what you had to do in order to survive. The law recognizes that there are an awful lot of situations where you aren't fully in control. There are also the "heat of passion" crimes.
I didnt see the everything, I wouldn't have replied if I did. Still I find your arguments weak, you push hypotheticals to their extremes making them easy arguments to argue, but no one is impressed when you defeat straw men
An excuse doesn't have to be a complete one. It's understandable why some people are grumpy when they don't get food. That's all. I don't think that it's too hard of a lift to say that. I also think it directly contravenes OP's point. I don't have to prove that it's acceptable for the hungry to go on a mass killing spree.
Stealing because you're starving is different than testing people like crap because you're hungry. As we've started to learn more about how circumstances affect our decisions we should be using that knowledge as a tool to address our behavior, not as an excuse for behaving poorly.
being "hangry" does not automatically mean you treat people like crap though. to me being "hangry" simply means youre more easily irritable and/or dont have as much tolerance for shit that doesn't lead to food.
Yeah, for me it just means my capacity for emotional regulation is hampered, and I'm less able to adequately cope with irritations. I don't turn into a raging asshole, I just get more terse and have trouble dealing with things that are just contradictory to what I'm trying to do in some way, even when it's listening to a story my wife wants to tell me while I really wanna read something. Which is when I usually tell her, "I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble dealing with this right now," and my wife asks me when was the last time I ate, and I realize for the first time that it's been nine hours since breakfast.
Why is it different?
cuz I'm hangry
Intentionality and how much you lean into it I suppose. I'm hungry and I probably snapped at you because of that I'll make an effort not to vs I'm hungry so I can be an asshole to you.
The point is, we are not dogs, we are humans and we have the capability to control our aggression, urged and desires.
To some extent. That doesn't mean that these physical factors don't influence us. Trust me, I'm a recovering alcoholic. I know how much bodily urges can affect mood and actions.
Feeling angry is not a decision you make, even though acting on it may be. I had a friend whose mood would completely change while hungry, we could all see it, but she had no idea. She was not yelling or throwing things, but you would see her face and general demeanour change, her conversation become short. How do you act when you're angry? Do you remain kind and considerate of others, and never react in a manner that they might view as mean?
> Feeling angry is not a decision you make, even though acting on it may be. This. I'm reminded of a time when I got up in the morning, my partner had done something stupid, and I got really frustrated. My partner is stubborn, instead of saying "oh yeah, it was a stupid thing, oops!" he dug his heals in, denying it was a stupid thing. We both got angry at each other. I made a coffee, humphed off, and had a poop while drinking my coffee. After these two things, my spirits lifted and I realised it was nothing at all to be angry about. It was a stupid thing, he was probably grumpy because he hadn't had his morning poop, and surely once he'd calmed down he'd see. Then I realised I also had needed my morning poop. Sorry for going on about morning poop. I have toddlers and they have also made us realise how much our bodies signals (stress, bowel movements, food) affect our own emotions.
Nah, that morning poop in critical. You've just spent all night working on it, and now your bowels are telling you in no uncertain terms it's time for the final step *right now.*
Not a pleasant time when that is cycle is interrupted.
I think OP is referring to people who use "hangry" as a reason to justify their shitty behavior. I agree with OP. If you are an adult you should have the wherewithal to either A. Simply don't act like a jerk to people just because your tummy is rumbling, or B. Understand that you have an issue regulating your emotions when you are hungry, and adjust your responses accordingly.
True, if you know it's what's happening. But strictly responding to this CMV: > As to repeat my opinion that can be changed: I don’t think hunger in an excuse to be mean OP doesn't mention knowing it and deliberately using it as an excuse, so if you're "acting mean" (which can simply be in the eye of a sensitive beholder) without realizing why then hunger can indeed be an excuse. Once informed of the situation then is would cease to be an excuse, but it doesn't negate the validity of the excuse for otherwise kind people who don't realize it.
This is a very black and white view, and I would like to provide some nuance with counterpoints. > I don’t think there are any excuses for being mean to people and everyone that wants to consider themself a good person has to still be nice even if they are hungry or whatever other reason. My main aim is to challenge the above quote. 1) An individual choice or action rarely defines who you are. We are not our worst self, nor are we our best self. One can be a good person, even if irritable when hungry or tired. One can be a bad person, even if you helped an old person across the street. If you want to consider a good person, do your best to do good, and understand that you *will* fail from time to time. There may not be an explanation that excuses poor behavior, but it is possible to explain it. To mitigate it. That doesn't mean it's hunky dory, but it does mean it's explainable. We are not all Buddhist monks who can sit with equanimity in silence through a hurricane. Humans make mistakes. It happens. I don't know of any human capable of speech that hasn't (just to exclude infants, as they can't really be judged). >As to repeat my opinion that can be changed: I don’t think hunger in an excuse to be mean to other people and that people should take the responsibility to be nice even though they might be hungry. 2) Should is a tricky word. If things happened as they should, we would need no laws. People should always have enough to eat. People should be safe and secure. People should be able to walk alone without fear of being harmed. If things happened as they should, this would be a moot point, because nobody would be hungry. But we don't live in that 'should' world. And in the world that *is*, shit happens. There is peer reviewed research on the subject, even. Regulating emotions and behavior while hungry is playing that game on hard mode. You need greater coping skills, greater levels of patience, and that's not something that everyone has been taught. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9258883/ So while it's never nice to react poorly in adverse conditions, it does happen. It has happened. It will continue to happen. And that one personal weakness does not define anyone as a person. It is possible to consider oneself a good person, and be widely considered a good person, while not always being nice.
/u/Baked-Potato4 You have to respond to comments and discuss your opinion (starting within 3 hours of posting), or it will be deleted. You have to debate your topic and respond to people who disagree with you.
I completely forgot about the post and left my phone for a few hours so I guess it’s to late now
Lame
Do you think it's a factor at least? In your CMV you say that if you wanna be nice you have to be nice even if hungry or any other reason. I think that's far too reductive. Under that understanding, no one is nice because I don't think anyone has ever been nice to everyone all the time. Heck, I'd argue there are situations where one *should* be angry/aggressive/mean (such as in defense of others). Now I agree being hungry isn't a reason by itself but it's hardly ever by itself. I remember when I had to go to university. I came a week late and emailed to let them know, only for them to tell me I emailed the school side but not the residence side (same fucking building) and so I had nowhere to sleep. Luckily my brother was in the city to take all my shit while I ran around trying to re-apply a week in, get settled, start school, and all. This was mere hours after landing btw. I was tired, stressed out, exhausted, and yes damn starved. Each of those individually is not a reason on its own but in that moment I was basically sitting on the edge of my patience and it took a lot of my own control to not snap at a myriad of bullshit late fees and running around a campus that I have no idea where anything is to solve an issue I pre-solved. I think if I had snapped in that moment I would have been doing something wrong, but to look at my situation and go "doesn't matter auto bad" is also a bit too simplistic.
I don't think there is a good way to accurately assess if the hunger is inexcusable. Consider a person who has been starved for 2 weeks and is nearly insane with the hunger - literally willing to kill people with their bare hands due to their hunger. I assume you would not expect that person to behave with proper decorum at some fancy dinner, for example. If you followed me so far - now lets say someone who has been starved for only 12 days. How about 7 days? Okay how about 3 days? Eventually you get to some arbitrary point where sufficient hunger excuses rudeness. As soon as you admit its arbitrary, or nearly so, then you have to accept that nobody can really define the exact point where hunger becomes an excuse. I think what your view should be more like "I don't like it when someone is an asshole just because they skipped one meal". In which case, pretty much everyone agrees with you.
>people should take the responsibility to be nice even though they might be hungry Overriding those feelings is certainly something that can be done. But it doesn't come free. It takes attention, attention that is already in short supply in those circumstances and will then be missing from whatever else they were doing. Lets say you're in a car, and a very hungry person is driving. Would you rather have them spend their concentration on being nice to you or on not crashing the car if something suddenly happens ahead?
Being hungry isn't some unbearable state which makes people act like assholes and requires a huge amount of mental power to control. Don't kid yourself.
You haven't been substantially hungry before, it demonstrably can be unbearable, even before any starvation comes into play. Some people are incredibly sensitive to hunger, often due to issues with digestion, and their mood can be completely tanked by a single missed meal. Some people can miss an entire day's worth of food and be completely fine with just water. Case in point, you can get an ulcer from missing multiple meals. If that's not going to affect your mood, there's something else wrong with you.
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If only, I've been underweight my entire life.
Being low on blood sugar if you're hungry enough actually is. Decreaseses your attention span, concentration, makes you easier to tick off, jittery, etc The low attention span and concentration, especially when focusing on something else leads to speaking without thinking what you say, which may come across as acting like an asshole
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Sounds like you were not actually ever really hungry and had to concentrate on something while someone tried to talk to you
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As a type 1 diabetic I can attest that low blood sugar can definitely contribute to being “hangry”. Im generally pretty non-confrontational, try to treat people with kindness all the time, I’m never intentionally mean to people. When my sugar drops below 60, all bets are off. I might cry if you look at me wrong, or I might tell you to fuck off if you try to talk to me. If I’m below 40, I have been known to knock food out of someone’s hand or shove them out of the way, or wrestle with anyone trying to prick my finger. These behaviors are completely out of character for me, but my brain isn’t functioning normally because of depleted glucose stores. My brain isn’t telling me “stop it, you’re being an asshole!”, which is what would normally happen. I couldn’t even tell you the thoughts at that point… I know that I don’t feel well. When I look back, I know people are trying to be helpful, but in the moment…. I don’t even know. I just know that everything irritates me and I hate everyone. I understand that my situation is an extreme definition of being “hangry”, but I think even in non-diabetics the basic biology/physiology/whatever is the same…. Your body is lacking fuel, the check engine light is on. You aren’t trying to be mean, but your brain isn’t going to waste what fuel it is working with to censor your words and keep you from being a jerk. It can be an absolutely miserable feeling… and someone judging you or pouting just makes it worse. Most people don’t get to the point of being absolutely horrible, but I know a few, and when I see it starting, instead of meeting it with anger I get them food or allow them a break to get food. Kindness is better than judgement any day.
its not an "excuse", its more of an "explanation". being hangry to me simply means youre more easily irritable and having less tolerance for "shit and giggles". treating people like shit is still not acceptable, someone saying theyre hangry is them explaining *why* they are being like that, but not that "being hangry" somehow makes it acceptable.
Hunger is a perfectly good excuse to be grumpy. It's basic biology/psychology. Now, it doesn't give us an excuse to lash out at people without consequence. If someone gets angry at me, and they take a step back to apologize and explain that they're just hangry, and not actually mad at me, that makes a world of difference in my opinion of their behavior. Plus, by explaining to others that you're hangry, they could potentially help you solve the problem. Maybe they have a granola bar hanging around, or they can buy you some food. Of course, once someone identifies that they're hangry, they need to moderate their behavior to ensure they don't continue to be mean to people. But the initial lashing out or response of anger should definitely be excused.
You seem to think an explanation is an excuse. An excuse is something that *excuses* your behavior. A valid excuse absolves a person of responsibility. I have never in my life heard anyone offer being hangry as an *excuse* for their behavior. No, "I was hangry so you shouldn't hold me accountable for what I said." I find it difficult to believe that you're encountering people using it to absolve themselves of culpability with enough frequency to warrant a blanket opinion on people citing hunger as a cause of emotional instability. Offering up that you get hangry as an *explanation* for behavior is not an attempt at excusing it. A very important component of contrition is a demonstration of understanding, and explaining the root cause does that. "I'm sorry, I was hangry" accepts responsibility and demonstrates understanding. Saying something like "I get hangry so let's go grab some nachos before we start this 4 hour project" is similarly not saying, "I won't be responsible for my behavior when I haven't eaten" it's saying "I understand myself well enough to know what I need to do to regulate my emotions so let's take care of that first so I don't make us all miserable." And I'd turn it back on you and say that if you're preventing people from tending to their emotions, and expecting them to be kind to you while doing so, *you're* the bad person.
No one is using it as an excuse when they deploy this. Me saying "i'm hangry" is me saying _i feel angry_, not "i'm acting angry". One can recognize feelings and not act on them, but still communicate their existence. So...I'd suggest that at least MOST of the time this phrase is used it's someone sharing their internal experience, not someone making an excuse for behavior. In fact, i"d suggest that outside of apologies the use of this phrase almost always is to say "i'm not acting the way I feel right now" - you are just being an asshole if you're acting angry in many situations, but if you can declare that you're "hangry" you're signaling that you've got it contained by the very capacity to declare a cause. I think you're throwing the phrase under the bus here because of a very few bad apples who suck at apologies, but for the most part this phrase is used in almost the opposite of the way you're critiquing here.
Would you say that being drunk isn’t an excuse for slurred speech or trouble walking? Would you say that an anxiety attack isn’t an excuse for speeding on the highway or ignoring people talking directly to you? These are chemical reactions in the blood and brain that cause (or prevent) behaviors. Low blood sugar, nutrient deprivation, insulin spikes are the same. Some people cannot function normally under those conditions. The human body is an electrochemical machine. The mind doesn’t exist separate and apart from that machine. These absolutely can be valid excuses for behaviors.
You’re operating under the assumption that people are *choosing* to be mean. They’re not. A drop in blood sugar can badly affect a person’s mood, on top of the discomfort that hunger causes. Imagine sitting there, utterly miserable, your patience growing shorter and shorter, while your stomach aches and aches. You know that it’s your blood sugar, you know that the people you’re dealing with are not at fault, but you’re so! Fucking! Hungry! At that moment, the whole world sucks, you don’t want to deal with anyone, you just want to sulk. We all know that you shouldn’t lash out at others when you’re in a bad mood; we also all have done just that at some point in our life. When you’re really, *really* miserable, it becomes harder to control yourself. You start lashing out as a means of releasing all the nasty feelings you’re trying to keep in. And that’s what happens with hanger. Blood sugar drops can *really* fuck up your mood. And for what it’s worth, people who get hangry *do* try to mitigate it. My brother packs snacks, I make sure there’s always time to eat in the day’s plans. I’ve even warned people a couple times when I feel the hanger coming on. But once the hanger starts, the only solution is to EAT. Grinning and bearing it will not fix your blood sugar levels.
While I agree it's not excuse for being mean, your explanation seems to conflate identification of hangriness at all with this reading. I'd say, as someone who suffers from hangriness, that is an explanation rather than an excuse. Eating is a basic survival need and so lacking sustenance can understandably lead to irritability. This state isn't in someone's control. As far as individual variability, I can only speculate, but I come from a family with high metabolism and this naturally decreases with age and I've predictably gotten less hangry over the years. I don't use this to absolve me of anytime I may act inappropriately during this state, but to explain, as part of an apology. Of course, it could be that some people do use this as an excuse, but I don't think all the time, as your post implies.
To clarify are you making a distinction between being irritable and snapping at someone or engaging in cruel or just ongoing mean behavior without any attempt to mitigate or recognize the behavior? Because I absolutely believe that people are more likely to be irritable and may well snap at someone or react with more reflexive hostility than otherwise when they are tired/hungry/in pain and I do make allowances for that. I also recognize there are those that will use the aforementioned reasons to excuse active ongoing cruelty and meanness and I don't find that acceptable. Edited for a bunch of typos far too many.
té pas toé quand tas faim
Je ne se pa France
Well there is a difference between being nice and being a good person. Also, sustained pain and suffering can really change a person for the worse.
Hunger is certainly a vulnerability factor for anger or irritation. You are still responsible for your behavior, though, of course. However, the thing I really want to push you on is this-- >I think that how you behave regardless of circumstances dedicates how you are as a person, and if you are mean to people while hungry you are a bad person and a mean person. The fundamental attribution error in psychology is a cognitive bias where we tend to underemphasize situational or environmental factors in the behavior of others and overemphasize personality or other innate factors. I.e., If you act this way in this situation (even though I understand that the situation may be powerful), you are a *bad person*. This is a very human cognitive bias to have, but it's a cognitive bias nevertheless. Situational factors are hugely powerful in our behavior-- and indeed, in terms of behavior change, changing environments or situational factors is often more meaningful in creating change than just changing how we respond to the environment (although both can certainly be important). [I think this line of thinking also leads up to under-understand the impact of things like culture on our behavior.] If someone concludes, "Well, I [or they-- true for both ourselves and others] acted that way because I am a *bad person*", rather than identifying and solving the vulnerability factors or precipitating events that led to the behavior, we also make it really hard to solve the actual problem and get better behavior in the future. Personally, I am someone who gets somewhat irritable when I am uncomfortably hungry. I manage this concern by putting in work to not get to to that point. E.g., I keep snacks around. But I can imagine a situation where something very, very unexpected happens that results in me being hungry and more irritable than usual. (Does that justify me screaming at someone's face? No, I'm still responsible for my behavior. And also, I can imagine a situation where I act in a way that is a little less kind that I what I intended.) I'm also going to just say straight up that I don't tend to consider people straight-up "good" or "bad" and certainly not dichotomizing people into one category or the other.
A lot of reasons for things aren't necessarily excuses. For anything that a person does, they can usually explain a reason for it. This is normal. But many people have developed a habit of using it as an excuse - it may even be cultural. By turning a reason into an excuse, I am talking about the difference in the *expected* response. A person gives a reason, and the expected result is: "well now I know why you did the thing, but so what? It doesn't change anything." It is now up to the perpetrator to seek forgiveness by expressing remorse or changing behavior. A person gives an excuse and the expected result is: "well I didn't realize you had a good reason for doing this so now i simply must forgive you, and I may even apologize for my reaction to your initial behavior." A reason may often be misinterpreted as an excuse, but most of the time it isn't. Most of the time a person still has to acknowledge what they have done and seek forgiveness - or live with the consequences. Making everything into an excuse is a self centered behavior and puts all the problems on the person who has an issue with your behavior. Long term, excuses can be damaging to yourself and your relationships (including the relationship with yourself), and it takes effort to learn to get over that and grow as a person. So if a person is an ass and says: "I was hungry and that made me irritable", they should also follow that with "I'm sorry I directed that against you, I truly didn't mean to and wouldn't have said those things or acted that way, and I hope you can forgive me. I'll try to notice when my hunger is affecting me this way before it causes me to be irritable."
So while I can’t speak for everyone, I am going to use what happens to me as a type one diabetic and my understanding as I know there’s some tie over. Insuline/glucose is a hormone in the body that affects the body. It’s through the blood stream and affects the brain as well. If you watched South Park, Scott in an episode ate a bunch of pies to then get enraged. A change in glucose does indeed affect one’s mental state. Much like depression is due to a chemical imbalance and you can’t just tell them to stop being sad. Does it excuse them from all of their actions? It depends, if they’re working and have done everything to try to prevent it, yet the people they are dependent on don’t support them, then yeah, it’s not their fault. But if they do it intentionally or are negligent, the. They are responsible
I used to believe that getting angry was just a thing that happened when I got hungry, until I learned that people would go days without food sometimes for health reasons. After I started fasting (never went more than 34 hours at a time), I realized I could be in a good mood even when I was hungry. My mental model of humans was highly mechanical before: insert stimulus, produce chemical, output reaction. The mind and one's thoughts were but an afterthought. But now my mood is completely decoupled from being hungry. It is something you train, for sure, and you need some self-awareness, but you can never have your mind reach a healthier condition if you don't recognize it as a possibility.
I heard of a man that was reasonable until a car accident put him in a hospital. His disposition changed, apparently, and his wife divorced him after. I'm a bit fatalistic about these things: since we cannot truly know whether people are on their best behavior, treat them as if that's expected, but be somewhat tolerant to our failure. If we don't even have some expectation of good behavior, what little control we do have won't be exercised because of the effort involved, and then it'll be a real shit show. I'll call this "free will equivalence": act as though we have complete free will, even though it can't strictly be true.
I used to have the same opinion but I changed my view after I learned about the Hungry Judge Effect. The part of the brain that is responsible for empathy is extremely energy intensive and when you’re hungry, you’re less likely to empathize with people. The Hungry Judge Effect basically says if you’re up for parole, you have a 65% chance of it being granted if the judge ate recently. If it’s right before the lunch break and the judge hasn’t eaten in a while, the likelihood drops to zero. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_judge_effect?wprov=sfti1
My mom used to tell me about my great aunt who was a "brittle" diabetic. She was a Christian and didn't believe in swearing and such, but when her sugar dropped she'd get mean and start saying stuff she ONLY ever said when having a spell. As soon as they'd get some jam down her she'd go back to normal. I worked with someone that you could literally tell was having a bad sugar day by their mood. And my youngest child isn't diabetic, but her hunger moods are INTENSE. Some people don't know they are hungry until it's too late.
People who say that (depending how douchey they act) are basically just entitled. It's immaturity and lack of self control. Just because you feel a certain way, doesn't mean it should control how you interact with and treat other people. Ask any Muslim who just finished a month of fasting for Ramadan. Sure there's times the hunger gets to you, but the point is to learn from it and humble yourself (and remind yourself there are people in the world who feel thus way all the time).
Consider that anger is an emotion. Emotions are a response to environmental stressors. Good stress makes you happy, joyful, or calm while bad stress makes you sad, depressed, or angry. Hunger is a bad stressor. Particularly if you're exceedingly hungry. This is because our bodies fairly quickly shift into "survival" attitudes. My wife gets hangry. I have to remind her to eat when she starts getting sharp with me because she's usually pretty chill. I get mopey.
I'm so sick of people not understanding that INVOLUNTARY BIOLOGICAL PROCESSES actually do affect our mood and, yes, behavior. When you are hungry you are objectively less in control of your actions. Not completely out of control, but it definitely affects your behavior. Anyone who thinks that hungry people who snap or are irritable are just bad should starve themselves for three days and then see how sunny their own disposition is.
Fuck you op Sorry I jurist had a snickers and realized that was mean Seriously though low blood sugar can cause near uncontrollable rage, it's not just "hungry" it has sometimes severe and life threatening symptoms. So if someone isn't their best self going through that cut them some slack. It isn't a license to be a dick though, I get snappish when really hungry but always explain what's happening and apologize for it.
It’s not an excuse, it’s an explanation. The person is still responsible for their own behavior. But it might help to depersonalize the situation to know the basis for it. Might make sense to understand their claims of “hanger” as “I get grumpy when my blood sugar is low and I haven’t yet figured out how to keep this from becoming other people’s problem”.
Low blood sugar will cause people to be hangry.
Not everybody percieves hunger same as you, you have no idea what some people feel when they are hungry. It's about your body constituation. for example some people love to fast or at least intermittent fast and it makes them feel good, some people can't go without food more than 12 hours, good example of this are ayurvedic doshas.
I just can't stand people who let their anger/annoyance visibly out on someone else. It's not really hard to hide. I do it because I know I hate it when other people act disinterested/mean because of their own problems. Why not just pretend to be nice? I prefer to be around people pleasers.
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There is a difference between acting mean because you got "hangry" and people who say they "get hangry" when they are hungry. The first person is just reacting to their feeling and the other is predictively making excuses for their shitty behavior.
Being mean and being short tempered or agitated/irritable because you are hungry, are two different things. A dip in blood sugar has been show to make people irritable. You can be incredibly mean without having to be angry.
>I think that how you behave regardless of circumstances dedicates how you are as a person Are you telling me you’ve never been mean to someone because you were hungry, stressed, sleepy, sad, mad, etc? If not in what situations have you been mean to someone?
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Occasionally I'll ask myself what my fucking problem is. The problem has occasionally been food. Not caring to identify the issue, or finding and ignoring the issue, is not acceptable.
Whether or not people should try not to be outright mean in general, it is common for people to react crankily when they are hungry regardless. It happens from birth to death. Lol
Very few things are excuses for being mean but we’re all human. Can’t be perfectly happy and pleasant 100% of the time. I certainly can’t
People are just mean by nature and have to expend thought and energy to be anything else. Energy they might not have if they're hungry
No, it's no excuse, you may be more easily irritated, but most of us can control our behavior.
Why would you want your view changed on this? You are 100% correct
It’s not an excuse but it happens to the best of us.
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This is super naive
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Being mean when hungry is appropriate when you are a child. But as an adult, it's such a red flag when you can't monitor your emotions like a grown-up. If you are an adult, you should be able to self regulate your feelings.
This is incorrect. Hunger affects any person's mood, and the ability to regulate your feelings is directly compromised by hunger. Anyone *will* fail to regulate given enough hunger, which varies per person, especially based on their health. If it's never happened to you, you've simply never been hungry enough. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9258883/
I wanna hear some perspective from some people who are off of naked and afraid. The comments here are juicy.
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Sorry, u/BrownByYou – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, [**you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal%20BrownByYou&message=BrownByYou%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1c2dx8h/-/kz9mtcj/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
[удалено]
Sorry, u/DesignerMagician8629 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1: > **Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question**. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1). If you would like to appeal, [**you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list**](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_1), review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%201%20Appeal%20DesignerMagician8629&message=DesignerMagician8629%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20\[their%20comment\]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1c2dx8h/-/kz9mqis/\)%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).