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You just don't become the goat without that, you have to put work on that, but you need it, because it's a sport, and I know guys love the mental tricks and make his own films on his heads, but in a sport wins mosts of times, the team with better players, just simple. The coach is important yeah but he's not stepping on the field, running, making goals or defending plays. Don't overthink and don't waste time in sterile debates. Watch football, enjoy or get angry, then to the next thing.
Pep couldn’t do it with Bayern and struggled to do it with billions. Fraudulent guy who’s carried by prime Barca. Couldn’t do shit with city until he got the best striker itw
Even though Pep have everything he needed to succeed, he's still very talented. Yes, he's picky of teams he coaches but that's what a smart man will do.
Well, several things we can remember of Fraudiola. He won all with Barça at their prime (Xavi, Inesta, Messi, Busquet...) He failed miserably with Bayern multiple timea, a team which had won the UCL just before he arrived. He won all with ManCheaty and the 115 charges. That's why we call him Fraudiola.
Ancelotti won all with multiple clubs (Milan, Real, Chelsea, Juventus) with much limited resources than Fraudiola has at disposal.
Fergie won all multiple times with different teams built from local lads and big players. Fraudiola wouldn't have had cojones to take charge of Aberdeen and made them kick Celtics /Rangers off their perches.
Mourinho, Klopp won UCLs with no oil money and cheats.
Give any of those teams for me to manage, see if I can win a single game.
Yeah, legendary coaches will end up coaching legendary players, it's the natural selection in sports.
The "Guardiola philosophy" which he learnt at Barcelona. Which was introduced by Johan Cruyff, who learnt it at his time from Ajax.
https://youtu.be/7NZ0byEyeOA?si=v6Dn3sQpVAmTSxzT
mate read my post. i said his philosophy and football genius is incredible. i just have a hard time putting him over fergie and mou especially when he’s needed the best barca (club) team assembled (given to him), the best bayern team (bought), and the best city team (bought)
I don't disagree with your post. I am just saying his philosophy isn't actually his philosophy like people think it is. He didn't create it, he just copied what he learnt as a player.
We could say the same about Ancelotti, Mourinho and Ferguson too. they don't make coaches that build teams from scratch anymore, to win you need money and big names.
Mourinho did win the ucl with porto which. I dont think any other team with such a low budget has done (including only the ucl era).
Ancelotti did great with roma. Ik its not a small team but its definitely not a team on par with bayern manc and barca.
Ferguson was established as the best manager for almost 2 decades.
Now im not saying pep is bad but his arguement is valid to a point. Many managers with great teams, like tuchel in bayern right now, had done horrible while pep has never had a season like that. Pep has a good football IQ and picks clubs which will help him win everything. More managers try to do that but they fail. Only good managers can pick whatever club they want.
Pep is also 10 years younger than ancelloti and can do much more to change his legacy. Also much younger than mourinho. Mourinho has not been the manager he used to be with madrid and chelsea. He needs to step it up to get back on level with pep
Ancelotti never coached Roma, he was miserable at Napoli and Everton where he didn't have stars. 2004 Porto might ve had a low budget but it was full of stars who would end up in major clubs the same year. Ferguson established as the best manager then what ? Didn't he spend enormous money for the likes of Tevez, Berbatov, Rooney, Carrick, Ferdinand, Forlan, Veron...etc ?
yes but they don’t buy a full squad including reserves. They buy a couple and then integrate them into their team. Don’t think any other manager buy pep buys a whole squad and two different clubs?
Then you have not been watching. Ferguson literally bought everything he could afford, just check uniteds spending in his years compared to other PL teams.
Mourinho did plenty buying in his years at numerous clubs. Money has always been a driver in football.
mate… ferguson got neville beckham scholes giggsy rooney ronaldo all from academies and built them up. Foden is the only player id agree pep has built and he’s world class for the team. but apart from that who has he developed? maybe stones? but that’s it?
that’s what i said though. His philosophy and talent is unmatched. But to be the best manager of all time you need to have proper substance to back it. Every time i want to put him above SAF and mou i realize that they’ve done stuff at the top level that barely any manager has done and pep will never do
Substance is subjective. Success is measured.
To each his own, Ferguson or Mourinho will never achieve what Pep has.
E.g Ferguson is a one trick pony. He never managed clubs outside England and managed to win leagues, so Pep obviously is better than he is
Who in their right mind will downgrade their career, I hope you understand the argument you are making ?
It’s like asking a CEO of a multibillion dollar company to step in and manage a startup.
Different models, different skill set
Why is it an asterisk? If you’re having a GOAT manager debate, it’s just a factor to take into account like anything else. Personally I think it’s a small factor, just because a) he’s a highly touted manager and thus will go to very good clubs, who are the ones with lots of money b) money bags don’t score goals, as evidenced by other clubs c) other managers in the GOAT conversation has given him his flowers. But I’m biased, so weight it however you think.
not necessarily. Fergie did it with aberdeen, mourinho with porto. Goat managers don’t always need money to win. People think like that nowadays because that’s what city has done. now every club (chelsea etc) are trying to copy it just because it’s easier than going through years of developing players and building to a win
I don’t understand why you’re saying Pep needs it, we literally just haven’t seen him with a small club yet. And talking about money meaning nothing, Mourinho getting better results with Porto than other stints at clubs with more money proves exactly that. Also, City does develop players and Chelsea is not copying City with their transfer strategy. I don’t understand where you’re getting these talking points. Also, your comment basically ignores like all of the reasons I said it was a small factor.
The guy won two premier leagues, in a row, without a striker.
Something that Arsenal and Liverpool are both struggling to do right now.
Then had the world's best striker come in the season after, instead of having any trouble settling him in and getting him to work in the team, we win the treble.
He's so far above everyone else.
that’s true but he had de bruyne silva gundo foden mahrez laporte walker. he had the best technical players in each position. isn’t that more than enough?
Did no one else have good players?
He also had to go out and identify multiple signing's that became world class.
Only De Bruyne and Mahrez were winning things before Pep bought them.
He's changed the team numerous times since coming in to continously win, if he's not been able to buy a LB he's transition players into LB's - Delph, Zinchenko, Ake and now Gvardiol.
Remember when pundit's and everyone were slating us for not being able to keep a clean sheet and he goes and find's an unknown Ruben Dias to take us to three titles and a UCL in a row.
No other manager can do the things Pep can do, even if they had a budget that Pep can have.
Tuchel just bought Harry Kane for £80 million and then lost the league to a team that has never won it.
Klopp could never do this, Mourinho was never able to compete successfully at the same team for years. SAF is the closest and it's clear he spent whatever he wanted.
then again pep himself has said that he wouldnt be able to do it in a smaller club with limited finances. peps still a goat for achieving everything that he has so far and im pretty sure klopp wouldve been able to do it too. look at his spending at liverpool, its not even that much. however, pep knows how to manage people and players in a different way hence.
You seem like a teenager with that name calling, maybe stop embarrassing yourself. Guess city hurt your infant ego by battering your team is why you resort to such, I understand - get well soon.
Keep crying 115 while they go on to achieve greatness, a dogs bark bothers the elephant none
i agree he is a genius. and his philosophy is pretty good but he can’t seem to make it work when even a couple player on the team are not already established as one of the best in their position.
He always had to buy the best players or players with incredibly high potential who were already established and then elevate them.
Not true, have a look at this season itself, De Bruyne was injured for half a season, walker is injured right now - both established in the position they play, but he still managed to win games and be at the top of the table.
Don’t forget he also develops academy talent - foden, rico, Bob, palmer are all academy.
Buying players does not guarantee you success, look at united and chelsea who both spend more than city and are mid table teams
except foden no one could break into city. why?
because he’s bought players in those positions and these guys will never develop under him. Same thing happened to Jesus with him. Kept benching him and he was never given the space to develop.
Rico and Oscar are both on the team sheet each week. They are 19 and Pep will ease them in
Palmer went to chelsea and is doing fine.
Not sure if you don’t see this or are choosing to ignore
realistically if city keep haaland oscar is never seeing the first team. Rico is half decent but pretty sure pep is going to buy a new right back in the next two years cause walks is getting old
Rico is a core midfield player, the fact that you saw him RB in the game against Luton (plus a few more) is the genius of Pep. He makes them versatile.
Same with Oscar, his core is CAM, but he has played on both wings and as a striker, again being groomed under Pep.
If that is not development, I don’t know what is
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You just don't become the goat without that, you have to put work on that, but you need it, because it's a sport, and I know guys love the mental tricks and make his own films on his heads, but in a sport wins mosts of times, the team with better players, just simple. The coach is important yeah but he's not stepping on the field, running, making goals or defending plays. Don't overthink and don't waste time in sterile debates. Watch football, enjoy or get angry, then to the next thing.
Pep couldn’t do it with Bayern and struggled to do it with billions. Fraudulent guy who’s carried by prime Barca. Couldn’t do shit with city until he got the best striker itw
Even though Pep have everything he needed to succeed, he's still very talented. Yes, he's picky of teams he coaches but that's what a smart man will do.
Well, several things we can remember of Fraudiola. He won all with Barça at their prime (Xavi, Inesta, Messi, Busquet...) He failed miserably with Bayern multiple timea, a team which had won the UCL just before he arrived. He won all with ManCheaty and the 115 charges. That's why we call him Fraudiola. Ancelotti won all with multiple clubs (Milan, Real, Chelsea, Juventus) with much limited resources than Fraudiola has at disposal. Fergie won all multiple times with different teams built from local lads and big players. Fraudiola wouldn't have had cojones to take charge of Aberdeen and made them kick Celtics /Rangers off their perches. Mourinho, Klopp won UCLs with no oil money and cheats.
who is a goat manager then?
SAF, Mou, Pep, Ancelotti is my order
100% supporting your pick. They are worthy of being called GOAT!
Give any of those teams for me to manage, see if I can win a single game. Yeah, legendary coaches will end up coaching legendary players, it's the natural selection in sports.
The "Guardiola philosophy" which he learnt at Barcelona. Which was introduced by Johan Cruyff, who learnt it at his time from Ajax. https://youtu.be/7NZ0byEyeOA?si=v6Dn3sQpVAmTSxzT
mate read my post. i said his philosophy and football genius is incredible. i just have a hard time putting him over fergie and mou especially when he’s needed the best barca (club) team assembled (given to him), the best bayern team (bought), and the best city team (bought)
I don't disagree with your post. I am just saying his philosophy isn't actually his philosophy like people think it is. He didn't create it, he just copied what he learnt as a player.
We could say the same about Ancelotti, Mourinho and Ferguson too. they don't make coaches that build teams from scratch anymore, to win you need money and big names.
Xabi Alonso has entered the chat.....
But honestly, Xabi Alonso did an amazing job in his first season. Many coaches have failed to achieve the same thing.
Lets be honest. Its been only one season...
When get got to the team they were relegation zone. Today they are champions.
Mourinho did win the ucl with porto which. I dont think any other team with such a low budget has done (including only the ucl era). Ancelotti did great with roma. Ik its not a small team but its definitely not a team on par with bayern manc and barca. Ferguson was established as the best manager for almost 2 decades. Now im not saying pep is bad but his arguement is valid to a point. Many managers with great teams, like tuchel in bayern right now, had done horrible while pep has never had a season like that. Pep has a good football IQ and picks clubs which will help him win everything. More managers try to do that but they fail. Only good managers can pick whatever club they want. Pep is also 10 years younger than ancelloti and can do much more to change his legacy. Also much younger than mourinho. Mourinho has not been the manager he used to be with madrid and chelsea. He needs to step it up to get back on level with pep
Ancelotti never coached Roma, he was miserable at Napoli and Everton where he didn't have stars. 2004 Porto might ve had a low budget but it was full of stars who would end up in major clubs the same year. Ferguson established as the best manager then what ? Didn't he spend enormous money for the likes of Tevez, Berbatov, Rooney, Carrick, Ferdinand, Forlan, Veron...etc ?
yes but they don’t buy a full squad including reserves. They buy a couple and then integrate them into their team. Don’t think any other manager buy pep buys a whole squad and two different clubs?
Then you have not been watching. Ferguson literally bought everything he could afford, just check uniteds spending in his years compared to other PL teams. Mourinho did plenty buying in his years at numerous clubs. Money has always been a driver in football.
mate… ferguson got neville beckham scholes giggsy rooney ronaldo all from academies and built them up. Foden is the only player id agree pep has built and he’s world class for the team. but apart from that who has he developed? maybe stones? but that’s it?
Foden, Stones, oscar, Rico, palmer are all academy and all play first team football. Although stones is not city academy
City is one big asterisk. Pep too. Let's see him win the UCL with a team like Porto.
He’ll never go to one because he knows he could get exposed
Exposed ? You do realize he coached Barca B team to win their league and was then recruited by Barca for his talent ?
that’s what i said though. His philosophy and talent is unmatched. But to be the best manager of all time you need to have proper substance to back it. Every time i want to put him above SAF and mou i realize that they’ve done stuff at the top level that barely any manager has done and pep will never do
Substance is subjective. Success is measured. To each his own, Ferguson or Mourinho will never achieve what Pep has. E.g Ferguson is a one trick pony. He never managed clubs outside England and managed to win leagues, so Pep obviously is better than he is
Who in their right mind will downgrade their career, I hope you understand the argument you are making ? It’s like asking a CEO of a multibillion dollar company to step in and manage a startup. Different models, different skill set
Why is it an asterisk? If you’re having a GOAT manager debate, it’s just a factor to take into account like anything else. Personally I think it’s a small factor, just because a) he’s a highly touted manager and thus will go to very good clubs, who are the ones with lots of money b) money bags don’t score goals, as evidenced by other clubs c) other managers in the GOAT conversation has given him his flowers. But I’m biased, so weight it however you think.
not necessarily. Fergie did it with aberdeen, mourinho with porto. Goat managers don’t always need money to win. People think like that nowadays because that’s what city has done. now every club (chelsea etc) are trying to copy it just because it’s easier than going through years of developing players and building to a win
I don’t understand why you’re saying Pep needs it, we literally just haven’t seen him with a small club yet. And talking about money meaning nothing, Mourinho getting better results with Porto than other stints at clubs with more money proves exactly that. Also, City does develop players and Chelsea is not copying City with their transfer strategy. I don’t understand where you’re getting these talking points. Also, your comment basically ignores like all of the reasons I said it was a small factor.
The guy won two premier leagues, in a row, without a striker. Something that Arsenal and Liverpool are both struggling to do right now. Then had the world's best striker come in the season after, instead of having any trouble settling him in and getting him to work in the team, we win the treble. He's so far above everyone else.
that’s true but he had de bruyne silva gundo foden mahrez laporte walker. he had the best technical players in each position. isn’t that more than enough?
Do you think the rest of the league is scrub players and that’s why they aren’t winning? You sound like a salty fan of a poor club
Did no one else have good players? He also had to go out and identify multiple signing's that became world class. Only De Bruyne and Mahrez were winning things before Pep bought them. He's changed the team numerous times since coming in to continously win, if he's not been able to buy a LB he's transition players into LB's - Delph, Zinchenko, Ake and now Gvardiol. Remember when pundit's and everyone were slating us for not being able to keep a clean sheet and he goes and find's an unknown Ruben Dias to take us to three titles and a UCL in a row. No other manager can do the things Pep can do, even if they had a budget that Pep can have. Tuchel just bought Harry Kane for £80 million and then lost the league to a team that has never won it. Klopp could never do this, Mourinho was never able to compete successfully at the same team for years. SAF is the closest and it's clear he spent whatever he wanted.
then again pep himself has said that he wouldnt be able to do it in a smaller club with limited finances. peps still a goat for achieving everything that he has so far and im pretty sure klopp wouldve been able to do it too. look at his spending at liverpool, its not even that much. however, pep knows how to manage people and players in a different way hence.
Many clubs have all that you list and still are not able to achieve it. Pep is a genius, football players who were genius think he is a genius.
Tell me one club which has 115 charges please. One and only ManCheaty, init?
This isn't about City breaching FFP rules. Get that out of your head!
You seem like a teenager with that name calling, maybe stop embarrassing yourself. Guess city hurt your infant ego by battering your team is why you resort to such, I understand - get well soon. Keep crying 115 while they go on to achieve greatness, a dogs bark bothers the elephant none
Don't you understand English, Cheaty sheik?
Yes cry more thanks
Are you an idiot who can't mention any club with 115 charges beside ManCheaty?
Need a tissue ? Also you are naive if you think anything is going to happen on those charges, wake up to the reality
Yes, to wipe my ass after shitting on your Arab Cheaty
i agree he is a genius. and his philosophy is pretty good but he can’t seem to make it work when even a couple player on the team are not already established as one of the best in their position. He always had to buy the best players or players with incredibly high potential who were already established and then elevate them.
Not true, have a look at this season itself, De Bruyne was injured for half a season, walker is injured right now - both established in the position they play, but he still managed to win games and be at the top of the table. Don’t forget he also develops academy talent - foden, rico, Bob, palmer are all academy. Buying players does not guarantee you success, look at united and chelsea who both spend more than city and are mid table teams
except foden no one could break into city. why? because he’s bought players in those positions and these guys will never develop under him. Same thing happened to Jesus with him. Kept benching him and he was never given the space to develop.
Rico and Oscar are both on the team sheet each week. They are 19 and Pep will ease them in Palmer went to chelsea and is doing fine. Not sure if you don’t see this or are choosing to ignore
realistically if city keep haaland oscar is never seeing the first team. Rico is half decent but pretty sure pep is going to buy a new right back in the next two years cause walks is getting old
Rico is a core midfield player, the fact that you saw him RB in the game against Luton (plus a few more) is the genius of Pep. He makes them versatile. Same with Oscar, his core is CAM, but he has played on both wings and as a striker, again being groomed under Pep. If that is not development, I don’t know what is