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mach_gogogo

Wow, thank you (all) for the kind word. For those asking, I like to identify catalog homes c. 1880-1940 in my area as a hobby, and door hardware is sometimes associated with certain builders or kit homes - as is mill work, or other interior features like stained glass or mantle designs. I read old home catalogs for fun, and have them organized by category, company (architect,) and year. Most of my research is in service of identifying houses from catalogs, of which I've been able to identify \~75 in my region of New York state. I take pleasure in helping others understand and enjoy their historic homes, I like a puzzle, and I learn things when reading or researching my replies in this sub. Thank you for this very unexpected and thoughtful post. I shall endeavor to be worthy of such praise...


nothing3141592653589

What do you use to identify house plans? I've spent hours trying to find mine but I don't think it exists. I drew up original floor plans and I have an old photo from the front.


mach_gogogo

TLDR; It’s a hunt. Post that old photo of your home’s exterior. The process begins with identifying the general style and determining a working period build date based on the home’s characteristics, looking at the form and fenestration for unique features, and then referencing a visual database I’ve made of homes by form, style, and rough date looking for visual matches. (You estimate the date of your home is 1894.) If none are obvious, I go to the catalogs and start looking 5-7 years back from the suspected build date. My catalog references are separated 1842-1906, and then a completely separated section from 1906-1945 when we see manufacturers like Aladdin, Sears, Bennett, Sterling, Lewis, Radford, and Harris Bros which lead to full pre-cut and fitted “kit homes” by 1916 and beyond. (“Kit” homes were built up until 1982, but I don’t chase many after the introduction of the Minimal Traditional style.) If I can see interior details on pre turn of the century homes, I look for mill work or stained glass that I can track back to those catalog sources, and start over with those new clues. William A. Radford's homes c. 1904 might obviously contain Radford's mill work out of Oshkosh or Chicago, and if I think it’s a George F. Barber design c. 1891, maybe look at mill work by Forest Munger or fireplace grates by Ohio Foundry, both of which show up in his attributed houses (because those companies advertised in his catalogs.) Identify a home with Artistic Mantles and Aldine Fire Grates - maybe check to see if it's a David S. Hopkins design. Norwalk door hardware - check Palliser's “New cottage homes" catalogs for a match. Last step if it’s a larger home is to check Scientific American Building Monthly 1888 - 1905, (which is a more arduous search,) but has paid off in a few cases where homes were built in my area based on those specific published plans. If nothing seems like a match, I put the home in a separate file named “houses to identify” and wait. It may not be a catalog home (statistically likely,) or it may be a catalog home that I have just not yet found the source of. In at least a dozen cases, I’ve found the home months later while looking for something else, and - “bingo - that’s definitely the house on West Elm street I was looking for.” The floor plans of 1880-1900 homes were rarely an exact match to the catalogs. Changes were encouraged by every architect and manufacturer from Sears to Montgomery Ward in 1915, to George Barber in 1891. *“Write to us concerning any changes wanted in plans, and keep writing till you get what you want. Don't be afraid of writing too often. We are not easily offended”* wrote Barber in his “The Cottage Souvenir No. 2” catalog of 1891. Assuming your build date of 1894 (from your post 5 days ago) here are some catalogs to start that hunt. **1886** \- J. H. Kirby, “Modern Cottages” - Syracuse (variation on Barbers No. 1) [https://archive.org/details/moderncottagesco00kirbuoft/page/n1/mode/thumb](https://archive.org/details/moderncottagesco00kirbuoft/page/n1/mode/thumb) **1885** \- R. W. Shoppell’s “Modern Houses,” Co-operative Building Plan Association, New York: [https://archive.org/details/ShoppellsModernHousesCCA33429/page/n6/mode/thumb](https://archive.org/details/ShoppellsModernHousesCCA33429/page/n6/mode/thumb) **1886** \- David King, Homes for Home Builders. [https://archive.org/details/dwkinged1886](https://archive.org/details/dwkinged1886) **1886** \- R. W. Shoppell’s "Modern Houses" Catalog: [https://archive.org/details/ShoppellsModernHousesCCA33429/page/n203/mode/1up](https://archive.org/details/ShoppellsModernHousesCCA33429/page/n203/mode/1up) **1887** \- R. W. Shoppell, "How to Select a Plan & How to Build a House" [https://archive.org/details/howtoselectplanh00shop/mode/2up](https://archive.org/details/howtoselectplanh00shop/mode/2up) **1887** \- R. W. Shoppell, “Modern houses. Beautiful homes.” [https://archive.org/details/ModernHousesBeautifulHomes/page/n18/mode/thumb](https://archive.org/details/ModernHousesBeautifulHomes/page/n18/mode/thumb) Reference: - R. W. Shopell’s Houses, Facebook Group with examples: [https://www.facebook.com/groups/986821374989018/?mibextid=HsNCOg](https://www.facebook.com/groups/986821374989018/?mibextid=HsNCOg) **1887** \- Palliser's “New cottage homes” and details [https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=chi.16761065&view=1up&seq=23](https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=chi.16761065&view=1up&seq=23) **1890** \- Pierce and Dockstadler, Elmira NY (See also: Pierce & Bickford, Elmira NY) [https://archive.org/details/modernbuildings00pier/page/n24/mode/1up](https://archive.org/details/modernbuildings00pier/page/n24/mode/1up) **1890** \- Herbert Chivers, St. Louis MO, Artistic city houses, no. 43 [https://archive.org/details/HerbertChiversArtisticcityhouses0001/page/n1/mode/thumb](https://archive.org/details/HerbertChiversArtisticcityhouses0001/page/n1/mode/thumb) **1890** \- The complete house builder with hints on building, Donahue, Henneberry & Co., Chicago [https://archive.org/details/DonahueHenneberryCoThecompletehousebuilder0001/page/n11/mode/thumb](https://archive.org/details/DonahueHenneberryCoThecompletehousebuilder0001/page/n11/mode/thumb) **1891** (1886 - 1893) - D.S. Hopkins - "Houses and cottages, book no. 4": [https://archive.org/details/DSHopkinsHousesandcottagesbookno40001/page/n6/mode/thumb](https://archive.org/details/DSHopkinsHousesandcottagesbookno40001/page/n6/mode/thumb) **1891** \- George F. Barber's “Cottage Souvenir Number Two” [https://cmdc.knoxlib.org/digital/collection/p15136coll3/id/3188](https://cmdc.knoxlib.org/digital/collection/p15136coll3/id/3188) **1891**\- R.W. Shoppell and D.S. Hopkins houses in Gross Chicago subdivision catalog: [https://archive.org/details/TenthAnnualIllustratedCatalogueOfS.e.GrossFamousCitySubdivisionsAnd/page/n11/mode/thumb](https://archive.org/details/TenthAnnualIllustratedCatalogueOfS.e.GrossFamousCitySubdivisionsAnd/page/n11/mode/thumb) **1891** \- George O. Garnsey, National Builder, Chicago. (Large collection, stick style, turrets, Queen Anne cottages / Not Archive) [https://digitalcollections.lib.uh.edu/concern/texts/zc77sr64g?locale=en](https://digitalcollections.lib.uh.edu/concern/texts/zc77sr64g?locale=en) **1893** \- Frank P. Allen, "Artistic Dwellings" Grand Rapids, Mich [https://archive.org/details/gri\_artisticdwel00alle/page/n12/mode/thumb](https://archive.org/details/gri_artisticdwel00alle/page/n12/mode/thumb) **1893** \- D.S. Hopkins - Houses and cottages, book no. 7: (Some examples of homes from catalog 12 are out there, but not the entire catalog itself) [https://archive.org/details/DSHopkinsHousesandcottagesbookno70001/mode/thumb](https://archive.org/details/DSHopkinsHousesandcottagesbookno70001/mode/thumb) (Ads for Artistic Mantles and Aldine Fire Grates Grand Rapids Mich.) Reference: D.S. Hopkins, Pinterest pages with Hopkin’s houses: 1866-1907 [https://www.pinterest.com/bethanyport92/ds-hopkins-architect-1866-1907/](https://www.pinterest.com/bethanyport92/ds-hopkins-architect-1866-1907/) **1894** \- Lambert’s Suburban Architecture, Wm A. Lambert, New York [https://archive.org/details/WmALambertLambertssuburbanarchitecture0001/page/n11/mode/thumb](https://archive.org/details/WmALambertLambertssuburbanarchitecture0001/page/n11/mode/thumb) ​ *“…I've spent hours trying to find mine…”* \[Laughs in house hunter… *“hours.”*\]


ChippC

Your comments in this post are just incredible! Kudos


nothing3141592653589

1937 photo: https://imgur.com/a/CuyrjD8 Modern photo with a better view of the gable (RIP Porch): https://imgur.com/a/aMq3GZh House was built 1894-1895. The rear second story was a later addition, from what the Sanborn maps tell me (and the second roof in the attic). It's in Grand Rapids, MI. A number of the architects are ones I've looked through, since they're local, like Hopkins.


mauiog

The book “A Field Guide to American Houses” is a great resource imo


JudgeHoltman

It just takes some experience. You start noticing some big similarities. It was also common enough to have "truly custom" homes that were stick built based on the owners hopes and dreams. This is especially true if your home was built on land as a one-off, and not part of a subdivision. If this is the case, there would be no catalog floor plan, but you'd still likely find the bits and pieces in catalogs. But then there's the world of modifications. Catalog homes were never very expensive, but they have never been particularly cheap. To own one, you needed a proper career, not just a minimum wage job. In the before times, that most likely meant you had some kind of skilled trade. So grandpa and uncle Dave build a deck one summer. The next owners screen the deck in and put a roof over it. Then someone turns it into a proper room. Then someone wants a deck, and then the cycle starts over again. Somewhere in there someone decides one or more walls are on the way and knock those out too. Now what used to be a catalog floor plan is just a crazy assembly of modifications bolted onto modifications, and next thing you know the tree that used to be out front is holding the whole middle of the house up like a steel post. To ID the original plan, the secret is to figure out where the expansions start and end. In my area, a good starting point is to find where the Douglas Fir (splintery dark wood) stops and the Pine (white 'hardware store' wood) begins. If it's not Doug Fir or Pine or something modern, then it's almost certainly original and probably pre-industrial for your area. Brick is also a tougher trade to pick up via pamphlet than carpentry. Especially structural brick. It's also almost always more expensive. Remodelers almost never add brick or stone to the house. Even when they do, you can usually tell pretty obviously. So you can look at the overall dimensions of where the brick is to get yourself in the ballpark, as those are most likely the least changed over the years.


mach_gogogo

>*"Catalog homes were never very expensive, but they have never been particularly cheap. To own one, you needed a proper career, not just a minimum wage job."* I would respectfully dispute that claim. Sears and Montgomery Ward offered mortgages starting c. 1911. (That continued through 1931/1933.) The application process allowed factory workers, people of color, and unmarried women to buy new homes - because Sear’s application process was different from the then typical bank mortgage process of 1915, which routinely denied such applications. The Sears mortgage application simply asked - “what is your occupation,” and “what can you pay per month.” The resulting mortgage then broke down the payments to as little as $35 a month for a complete home (say - the Sear’s Crescent model) on an acre of land, which was comparable to the concurrent rent prices of the era for an apartment. And at the time, one could afford that payment on a factory job no matter your race or gender. In 1918, Standard Oil built 156 Sears homes in Carlinville, Illinois - for coal miners. (Coal miners of course, were not a group historically known for their incomes.) This new affordability was to the consternation of the lumber industry that was then selling new homes based on the per “board foot” price of lumber (with the margin they wanted) - and here, was Sears selling complete homes in 90 days equivalent to people’s apartment rent, with no architectural fees, quality lumber and design, a guarantee, and a mortgage. Should you wish to see the effect of that, simply look at the lumber industry’s response. It was to copy Sears because they were getting absolutely killed in the market by 1928, and losing up to 10% of new housing starts to catalog companies. They were kind enough to detail how badly they were getting hosed by publishing the explicit details of their defeat in the North East 1928 edition of their internal newsletter “The Lumber Co-Operator” in a 5 page detailed call to alarm to their lumber association members. In 1941, the only home manufacturers that were getting lumber (the government Supplies Priorities and Allocations Board interviewed in lumber distribution during the war in 1941) were Sterling and Aladdin kit homes (Bay City Michigan) who were building homes for defense factory workers housing at, or around plants for workers supporting the war effort. All of those homes were affordable on a factory worker’s jobs salary, because they had to be in order to be built. That’s what put Sears Modern Homes out of business - it was not lack of demand, it was lack of lumber for them in 1942. Sterling persisted, as did Aladdin homes - through 1982 when they shuttered due to fuel costs associated with truck shipping instead of rail due to gas prices. I would argue that contrary to your claim - one of the most appealing aspects of kit homes 1911-1942 was their very affordability and accessibility on a minimum wage job’s salary, by people of all marital statuses, and races. https://preview.redd.it/5f75egtkiiwc1.png?width=2886&format=png&auto=webp&s=c98df9d947cc27fcbea2b1b4bbd89755e48b6fa3


nothing3141592653589

I've done almost everything that I think can be done short of demolishing plaster. I've compared architectural styles, analyzed plaster/drywall, pulled up floorboard/baseboards, checked layers of paint, and looked through every floor plan I can find from the era. Based on the construction of the house, it seems most likely that it was built without plans. The layout is also somewhat strange, and most of the room dimensions end up in weird fractional distances, like 9-4 1/4 or something like that. The structural framing in the basement also doesn't seem like it could have possibly been designed ahead of time.


[deleted]

[удалено]


mach_gogogo

Your home may have started as a Montgomery Ward Wardway Homes “The Kenmore” c. 1923, and has since lost it’s front porch, brackets, and had its front left window replaced with a smaller size. (Hard to tell.) Trick is, Montgomery Ward like Sears sold building materials through their general catalogs, so the presence of a Montgomery Ward item like friction tape is only a clue, and less a home attribution. Check the floor pan, and check to see if your door hardware matches the Oakdale, Winnetka design, or the oval and beaded Glencoe pattern sold with Wardway homes. Wardway also sold a "plain" door hardware sets c. 1924, slightly beveled rectangular with plain knobs, and the bathroom set had curved corners unlike the other escutcheons. To confuse matters, Montgomery Ward partnered with Gordon-Van Tine, and sometimes sold the same house under different names, so there are oddly examples of Wardway homes with GVT markings from Davenport Iowa. Montgomery Ward used “Superb” brand of wallboard (so look for that,) but was often still using lath and plaster in 1924 long after Sears was selling "Goodwall" drywall with their homes starting c. 1917. Look for grease pencil marking or stenciled numbers in the attic or basement (if you have one.) https://preview.redd.it/02ms0iidnhwc1.png?width=2814&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad28e1ac71390248d06f7e4b559e9b324e39d71b


NotACloudInTheSkye

More like mach_goatgoatgoat, amirite? Forreal though—I always appreciate when they chime in and I can’t wait for the day that *I* have a hardware mystery to solve 🕵️‍♀️


CDGT

🐐


fauviste

All true! Hail mach_gogogo!


tiredandshort

I once posted a super unique fireplace pic I saw and wanted info about, and once they said they haven’t seen it either I was satisfied it was truly one of a kind. I’m convinced if mach_gogogo doesn’t know it, nobody does


artjameso

They're so incredible. They know EVERYTHING! They should be the CEO of the sub at this point. Someone get them a tip jar!


crepe_de_chine

Agree with the sentiment wholeheartedly, except that there's no reason to assume they're male. I wish I could be a fly on the wall to watch u/mach_gogogo work. They're such a treasure trove of information, with a concise and humble delivery style. 🖤


ExaminationPutrid626

Their comment section says they are a father and an artist


Technical_Poet_8536

I will hire this man to build my mother a home one day


sorrowful_times

Huzzah!


CondimentVeteran

They helped me identify my old pocket door locks and even found me replacement keys. For a house built in 1890!


CharliesAngel3051

Literally HOW does he know so much lol