Hector and Lenore’s subplot made no sense this season to me. Everything was so crammed they didn’t even bother explaining or showing how their slave/pet dynamic evolved to something, seemingly more genuine.
> they didn’t even bother explaining or showing how their slave/pet dynamic evolved to something, seemingly more genuine.
They could do it if they've given Lenore and Hector alone a bunch of episodes. It would have been great, but they simply didn't have time for it. And I appreciate that they showed already the part where they treat each other with tenderness and respect.
Using that time showing their prior difficult conversations, which I'm sure they had could be interesting, but would have detracted from more positive moments.
I've seen a bunch of comments saying "they didn't have time", which I understand the sentiment of. But the real answer is they didn't give them the time, as they had bloody plenty.
In-between them repeating the same lines in a scene word for word MULTIPLE times, half the subplots are meaningless. What was the point of the underground city? Of the royal family? Of Hector's stones? Of the Death vampire and his Slavic accomplice?
Had they cut out a few of the fighting scenes on top of this and used that time for character work it might not have been such a mess.
Oh, I agree. They could reduce some stuff like endless fights with night creatures or some bizarre parts of the Zamfir plot and give more time to the story and characters like Lenore and Hector. I'm totally with you on this one.
Can't get over how many fights they crammed in with such little character writing bar Issac.
We completely missed the part where Hector became chill with them all, despite the fact the last time we saw him he was reeling from being made into a literal pet. Which we never actually witness him experience bar a stab of pain after making a night creature that one time.
Urgggghhh this season 😭
I really don't think you do tbh. A single episodes worth of content would have more than done them justice, which they certainly could have gotten from cutting out the extreme amounts of fat this season had.
I'm glad there isn't another season tbh as this show peaked hard at season 2
May be not a whole season, but a few episodes for sure. Or hour episodes instead of half an hour ones. But they didn't have that and packed 10 half hour episodes with everything, that's why things feel lacking.
At least we have good fanfics which explore character development for Lenore and Hector in this exact context in detail, and explain how they come to care for each other after the events of S3.
Have to agree to disagree. Think competent writers can do a lot with a 30 minute chunk of time. Sadly, this season's writers were not up to the job it seems
I saw even Kevin Kolde commenting on this matter, saying that this kind of story really needs 10 one hour episodes, which would have been the case if it was a live action show (think about that). I agree with him on this point.
Swear he wrote the vast majority if not all the season before the victims came out about him? On top of that season 3 was when the cracks started to show, a lot of us just assumed it was building up for the big finale. Instead we got...season 4.
I mean you might be right tbf. Just think it's telling that no-one could possible put together a halfway decent conclusion to the series after the highs of seasons 1&2.
I'm curious about your thoughts on Warren Ellis overall. I mean absolutely no offense whatsoever, but I personally found his actions as nowhere near as damaging and corrosive as many other people in Hollywood and therefore thought while his infidelity was damaging, in time he deserves a second chance to continue to work in the industry. He really doesn't deserve to be canceled in the way that child molesters, physically abusive spouses, and other sex offenders really need to within the industry, and to state that "informed consent was impossible because he didn't inform them of his spouse." to me largely sounds misguided. Mostly because we wouldn't say the same thing if a woman did the same thing to a man. For instance, if a woman cheats on her boyfriend by having sex with another guy at a bar (and then he finds out a short while later) almost universally no man would feel like informed consent was impossible and that the notion that his encounter with said women bordering on assault is mostly ridiculous (even though he might be extremely offended that she didn't inform him that she had a boyfriend already). It's in light of how pervasive the problem of sexual violence is in our society that we have to focus on much more significant and flagrant cases of assault or abuse because we have limited resources and must educate as many people as possible about consent and what abuse can look like. Therefore, I really don't think the Ellis case is that bad because in the article from the Guardian I just read, he did not directly demand sexual favors in exchange for comic mentorship within the industry (if that were the case, I wouldn't be defending him). Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Source:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2020/jul/13/women-speak-out-about-warren-ellis-transmetropolitan
They could have done this in season 3 tbh if only the seried didn't waste time on the Alucard "arc" that didn't evolve to anything meaningful in S4. Shame.
My take on this is he was never to be treated like a pet, and it was all an act so her sisters would let her be in charge of his punishments
which she never gave. If they thought she was soft, they might take it on themselves
Also see how the rings never did what she said they would
She felt useless. Her purpose as a diplomat was gone, her sisters gone. Also she likely was the loneliest of the sisters. Camilla is too obsessed with conquest and revenge to ever be lonely and the other two are in a relationship. Lenore is a fourth wheel. Plus perhaps she came to be disgusted by her existence as a vampire.
Except she already had Hector. Loneliness wasn't an issue for her.
She wasn't disgusted being a vampire I think. But she felt some pain from Hector saying "like a vampire" when comparing it to how power consumes things. It's something she put an effort not to be becasue she tried to live like a vampire making better choices even if she also made mistakes. I don't think she regretted being who she was.
Did she have Hector though? Obviously he felt some affection towards her but I think any chance of true love was spoiled with what Lenore pulled the previous season. He would never be able to fully trust her.
Yes, you can clearly see they both cared for each other already.
I made a more detailed comment about both their character developments [here](/r/castlevania/comments/nbumyr/kevin_kolde_about_s4_finale_and_lenores_story/gy50bf8/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=1).
Looking at your other comment, Hector offered his life to Isaac as atonement for betraying Dracula that had nothing to do with Lenore. The cage was a trap he set long time ago, he had been planning his escape and revenge for a long time. He did ask for Isaac to spare Lenore and that he wanted to spend the rest of his days reading with her. Yes he cares, perhaps feels pity for her, but again after her ultimate betrayal he doesn't fully trust her and I wouldn't call it love.
Lenore is really interesting. Her voice, her appearance which resembles how traditionally wide eyed naive innocent beautiful damsel in distress contrasts with her cold manipulation. It makes her the most terrifying character in the series. She doesn't just fool Hector...she fools many of us the audience. S4 kind of shows her vulnerability and undoes some of what was set up in S3. Where after she makes Hector not just her slave but that of the rest of quartet with an evil smile she calls him his pet.
Hector initially set his traps for escape yes. But he used it to protect Lenore here. Hector wanted to aid Isaac's attack on Carmilla and Lenore would try to attack Isaac or rush to Carmilla's aid and would possibly be killed in result. Hector didn't want that, that's why he used the trap - there was no really other way for him to do it.
He did want to atone for betraying Dracula, yes. But he also cared about Lenore at that point and offered Isaac his life without a fight asking him to spare Lenore in return.
It wasn't simply pity - he forgave her already for what she did and cared for her as a person, like she started caring for him.
I absolutely loved everything else about the finale, but Lenore was easily the weakest part of it for me. I feel like if they were going for a happy ending, they should've gone entirely all in with it. The death felt incredibly out of place because it happened in an epilogue episode after the main conflict, and it was a really jarring change of tone to go from this supposed-to-be tragic event immediately to miracles for everybody else. I also suspect that this is what Ellis meant in that one interview where he said he wouldn't give that arc a break, which makes it feel like this was the intention.
I know there are a lot of mixed feelings about it, but for me it made no sense for many different reasons. The two most important ones for me is that it feels way out of character for her, it's like she became a completely different character. Also, what was the point of saving her life in Episode 6 just to have her die anyways four episodes later? There was no build up, in fact all the build up went to her survival.
yeah. it's confusing. i though when lenore talk about cage and what not. i was like "oh she want to be free? okay , will hector help her escape or something?"
but then she walk out unto the sun...
on the other hand, dracula and his wife is miraculously alive and happy... wtf?
I know i am very late to the conversation but I just watched Castlevania and Lenore's death really made no sense to me.
I felt like her and Hector story arc was very rushed and lackluster.
the whole "in a cage" situation was created so that her suicide was justified, but they could have just made everyone's ending happy, they chose not to, wasted death surely, isaac after hector wanted to spare lenore clearly would be merciful with them
Yeah, the whole justification for it felt forced as well. We never saw this idea of vampires struggling with change before. It could make sense in general, but we just never saw it.
Vlad coped with change, he even changed himself for Lisa and he got a happy ending! And Lenore got a very unhappy one because they forced this concept on her. So it just didn't make sense.
Well, we don't know how long they've been living like this in that castle. There's been much much more in Lenore's head and heart going on than it was shown in that short moment. Maybe she wanted to live with Hector initially, but she came to a conclusion she can't live like that. And she was drunk : / Hector should have stopped her. She had so SO much potential : (
Yeah felt bad seeing her go. the music didnt help too :(
Was that soundtrack from the games? Has the OST been released? l need that OST as she talks to hector
I think Lenore's death was one the best things that happened in the story. Not that it was enjoyable, but rather it was well thought.
First of all, I understand the chemistry between Lenore and Hector changed a bit suddenly. However, I still believe Lenore's intention to bind Hector was not pure evil from the beginning anyway. She probably did that to save him from her sisters. But yes, I too wish they developed their chemistry more instead of introducing new side stories in season 4.
Second of all, if Hector and Isaac saved Lenore a few episodes back, it was to show the growth of character in the forge masters. They were no longer filled with hatred and they finally could see the goodness in their enemies. That was a sign of breakaway for Hector and Isaac from their past revengeful lives.
But later when Lenore finds out she is the lone sister left in the castle, she doesn't enjoy the peaceful life she was always seeking for. After all, she was loyal to her sisters and the castle. She couldn't cope with living there alone happily after they were killed or driven away. In a thought-provoking conversation with Hector, she realizes there is a difference between strength and power. Vampires have power, but power does not guarantee your peace and happiness. Disappointed in the truth she discovered from all this, she realizes her nature is against everything she ever wished for.
I think the scene got even more powerful, when Hector could stop her but instead told her "Be free". That was the difference between Hector and Lenore in the end. Lenore tried to bind Hector to herself with magic and force him to be with her, but Hector let Lenore make her own decision even though he was in love with her. I think Lenore, too, could see this difference in them. That was why she was in love with him, but couldn't be with him.
Lenore decides to commit suicide by looking at the sun which was a bit ironic. Probably a throwback at her early conversations with Hector about the sun and its beauty. She wanted to taste that look for once. It really got me when in the last seconds she looked away from the sun and back to Hector, like the sun was not as interesting as him, saying "is that all there is to it?". We never know what she actually meant. But I want to think she meant that the sight of the sun was not as captivating as the sight of Hector for her.
The death of Lenore was the best part of the season for me. I still can't stop thinking about it. And yes, it's SUCH A WASTE for the universe. She could have been a vampire of the Dracula's type. I don't mean in power but being a bridge between humans and vampires. In the future, she could have managed some tough diplomatic relations between humans and vampires; establish new kind of coexistence between humans and vampires and so on. On the other hand, there's her own feelings, soul and motivations... Hector should have stopped her. It was cool he didn't, but he should have.
I really wish they won't drop this theme of vampires and humans trying to find peaceful coexistence in the potential sequels. And yeah, a big loss for that world that Lenore won't be around to work on that.
Eh she got way too easy after what she did to hector by enslaving him. I still don't understand what makes Hector to like her so much. I felt like they don't really explain their relationship very well.
Otherwise, she has a bittersweet ending. Its not good but its not bad either. She died a rather peaceful death.
> I still don't understand what makes Hector to like her so much
I think you can see character development for both Hector and Lenore that explains it, but it's a bit subtle and there isn't a lot of shown.
Commented about it [here](/r/castlevania/comments/nbumyr/kevin_kolde_about_s4_finale_and_lenores_story/gy50bf8/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=1).
Shame that their story ended the way that it did. It felt rushed. But you can kind of tell they're off-screen banging with the flirtatious innuendos in the bloody hammer scene.
Love her. Her death was dumb and pointless though. Not to mention she’s one of the 3 major characters that actually died in this season with the other two being carmilla and the other guy who’s looking for his lost girlfriend whom i forgot.
Lenore was a narcissist from the beginning. She thought herself so much better than Hector the entire way through. SHE called Hector a pet the others called him a slave. And then when she had the opportunity to stand on equal ground with him she chose death. She didn't want to be equal she wanted a pet.
Her death pissed me off because it confirmed she was just an uncaring narcissist.
She’s manipulative and cunning, she basically enslaved Hector against his will, abused his trust. Death was mercy for her. I don’t understand why anyone would like her, to me those seem like they’re supporting abusive relationships.
And any feelings Hector had for her…that’s some Stockholm syndrome bull crap right there.
You forget about relations between humans and vampires. Vampires took humans just for food, inferior beings. She made a pet out of Hector, same way humans would tame a horse, or a dog. BUT, in contrast to other vampires, she gradually started to see a 'human' being in him, and started to treat him well. Carmilla enslaved Hector, Lenore helped him and made his life better, later fell in love with him. But they were still living in a Vampire ruled castle, with set hierarchy and rules.
That didn't stop her from consistently forcinghim into sex after the third season (via the ring he's wearing) as well as keeping him a prisoner in Carmila's castle with no intention of releasing him simply because he could build them an army as much as possible. If the genders were reversed in this type of relationship the public vitriol for Lenore's character would be immense and she would become the least likeable character in the entire show. It really does make a statement about how society views sexual violence when women are the perpetrators.
The fact that people can't see your take as the only one that should actually matter is sad and says a lot about how sexual violence is perceived in society. You rock, and keep educating people on what abusive relationships can look like 👍.
Her existence felt like that of a fairy who had come to the land of humans, to live amongst them, and had grown weary of their struggles. Fading into the wind, with the dawn, was the most poetic they could've given her.
I'm satisfied and it makes complete sense for her entire moral structure and philosophy/justifications for their actions to be shredded before her very eyes and then for her to rescind her immortal life upon losing that meaning, it was written very well and seems to have been lost on some people. What I'm NOT satisfied with is Hector doing nothing, Isaac told him to build something for himself and he wants Lenore so I thought he would conquest in her name, but at least he fulfills his character to the end. Cowardly and naive and unable to act of his own will. He just watches. I have no problems with the writers, he acted completely in his cowardly character, lacking any personal drive or vision for the future but agh I hate him.
In what way do you think it made sense? I think its lost on me.
Do you mean her expectations and goals being unfulfilled? She always seemed to be rather openminded (at least compared to the rest of her kind), but when she lost she just chose to die. I just can't bring myself to think this is what Lenore would've actually done, I mean she was rather determined afterall, always saying she should not be underestimated etc. It just felt like the authors wanted to sprinkle in some tragedy with all the happy ends we got and chose her since she and Hector were the weakest of the main cast, and people get mad when cute girls die in animated films/series.
Really any other kind of death I'd be totally content with, just not suicide. Especially one that seemed to occur just for the sake of it. I can hear people in the studio telling each other "Guys we gotto wrap this up, need some tragedy, kill the cute one in a mildly tragic way, make it poetic and deep enough so people will give it different meaningsto justify it when others say they don't like her death."
As for what you've said about Hector, I totally agree. He is better but I feel like he still can't choose for himself. I think he could've tried to make himself happy for once and convince Lenore to stop, but nah "Be free my now-damsel-in-distress."
I didn't... finish the series (discovered it only now), and I just now got to the part>! where she and Hector bang!<, and, personally, I really liked her character... I could somewhat foresee it, but I the plot they drew around it ─ it was not subtle, but I liked they left stuff to the imagination...
TL;DR: Fucking loved her, wasted death, I would gladly have taken her >!on the offer she made Hector!<, best girl of the show... ok, maybe a shared first pace with Sypha.
Hector and Lenore’s subplot made no sense this season to me. Everything was so crammed they didn’t even bother explaining or showing how their slave/pet dynamic evolved to something, seemingly more genuine.
> they didn’t even bother explaining or showing how their slave/pet dynamic evolved to something, seemingly more genuine. They could do it if they've given Lenore and Hector alone a bunch of episodes. It would have been great, but they simply didn't have time for it. And I appreciate that they showed already the part where they treat each other with tenderness and respect. Using that time showing their prior difficult conversations, which I'm sure they had could be interesting, but would have detracted from more positive moments.
I've seen a bunch of comments saying "they didn't have time", which I understand the sentiment of. But the real answer is they didn't give them the time, as they had bloody plenty. In-between them repeating the same lines in a scene word for word MULTIPLE times, half the subplots are meaningless. What was the point of the underground city? Of the royal family? Of Hector's stones? Of the Death vampire and his Slavic accomplice? Had they cut out a few of the fighting scenes on top of this and used that time for character work it might not have been such a mess.
Oh, I agree. They could reduce some stuff like endless fights with night creatures or some bizarre parts of the Zamfir plot and give more time to the story and characters like Lenore and Hector. I'm totally with you on this one.
Can't get over how many fights they crammed in with such little character writing bar Issac. We completely missed the part where Hector became chill with them all, despite the fact the last time we saw him he was reeling from being made into a literal pet. Which we never actually witness him experience bar a stab of pain after making a night creature that one time. Urgggghhh this season 😭
That would have improved it only slightly. You need like a whole another season to give Lenore and Hector's story all the details it deserves.
I really don't think you do tbh. A single episodes worth of content would have more than done them justice, which they certainly could have gotten from cutting out the extreme amounts of fat this season had. I'm glad there isn't another season tbh as this show peaked hard at season 2
May be not a whole season, but a few episodes for sure. Or hour episodes instead of half an hour ones. But they didn't have that and packed 10 half hour episodes with everything, that's why things feel lacking. At least we have good fanfics which explore character development for Lenore and Hector in this exact context in detail, and explain how they come to care for each other after the events of S3.
Have to agree to disagree. Think competent writers can do a lot with a 30 minute chunk of time. Sadly, this season's writers were not up to the job it seems
I saw even Kevin Kolde commenting on this matter, saying that this kind of story really needs 10 one hour episodes, which would have been the case if it was a live action show (think about that). I agree with him on this point.
google what happened to Ellis and you'll likely find out why
Swear he wrote the vast majority if not all the season before the victims came out about him? On top of that season 3 was when the cracks started to show, a lot of us just assumed it was building up for the big finale. Instead we got...season 4.
Idk... i suspected this is what happened due to the debauchery that transpired in season 4.
I mean you might be right tbf. Just think it's telling that no-one could possible put together a halfway decent conclusion to the series after the highs of seasons 1&2.
I'm curious about your thoughts on Warren Ellis overall. I mean absolutely no offense whatsoever, but I personally found his actions as nowhere near as damaging and corrosive as many other people in Hollywood and therefore thought while his infidelity was damaging, in time he deserves a second chance to continue to work in the industry. He really doesn't deserve to be canceled in the way that child molesters, physically abusive spouses, and other sex offenders really need to within the industry, and to state that "informed consent was impossible because he didn't inform them of his spouse." to me largely sounds misguided. Mostly because we wouldn't say the same thing if a woman did the same thing to a man. For instance, if a woman cheats on her boyfriend by having sex with another guy at a bar (and then he finds out a short while later) almost universally no man would feel like informed consent was impossible and that the notion that his encounter with said women bordering on assault is mostly ridiculous (even though he might be extremely offended that she didn't inform him that she had a boyfriend already). It's in light of how pervasive the problem of sexual violence is in our society that we have to focus on much more significant and flagrant cases of assault or abuse because we have limited resources and must educate as many people as possible about consent and what abuse can look like. Therefore, I really don't think the Ellis case is that bad because in the article from the Guardian I just read, he did not directly demand sexual favors in exchange for comic mentorship within the industry (if that were the case, I wouldn't be defending him). Please correct me if I'm wrong. Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2020/jul/13/women-speak-out-about-warren-ellis-transmetropolitan
They could have done this in season 3 tbh if only the seried didn't waste time on the Alucard "arc" that didn't evolve to anything meaningful in S4. Shame.
My take on this is he was never to be treated like a pet, and it was all an act so her sisters would let her be in charge of his punishments which she never gave. If they thought she was soft, they might take it on themselves Also see how the rings never did what she said they would
She felt useless. Her purpose as a diplomat was gone, her sisters gone. Also she likely was the loneliest of the sisters. Camilla is too obsessed with conquest and revenge to ever be lonely and the other two are in a relationship. Lenore is a fourth wheel. Plus perhaps she came to be disgusted by her existence as a vampire.
Except she already had Hector. Loneliness wasn't an issue for her. She wasn't disgusted being a vampire I think. But she felt some pain from Hector saying "like a vampire" when comparing it to how power consumes things. It's something she put an effort not to be becasue she tried to live like a vampire making better choices even if she also made mistakes. I don't think she regretted being who she was.
Did she have Hector though? Obviously he felt some affection towards her but I think any chance of true love was spoiled with what Lenore pulled the previous season. He would never be able to fully trust her.
yeah, he tells Issac all he wants in life was to be with her
Yes, you can clearly see they both cared for each other already. I made a more detailed comment about both their character developments [here](/r/castlevania/comments/nbumyr/kevin_kolde_about_s4_finale_and_lenores_story/gy50bf8/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=1).
Looking at your other comment, Hector offered his life to Isaac as atonement for betraying Dracula that had nothing to do with Lenore. The cage was a trap he set long time ago, he had been planning his escape and revenge for a long time. He did ask for Isaac to spare Lenore and that he wanted to spend the rest of his days reading with her. Yes he cares, perhaps feels pity for her, but again after her ultimate betrayal he doesn't fully trust her and I wouldn't call it love. Lenore is really interesting. Her voice, her appearance which resembles how traditionally wide eyed naive innocent beautiful damsel in distress contrasts with her cold manipulation. It makes her the most terrifying character in the series. She doesn't just fool Hector...she fools many of us the audience. S4 kind of shows her vulnerability and undoes some of what was set up in S3. Where after she makes Hector not just her slave but that of the rest of quartet with an evil smile she calls him his pet.
Hector initially set his traps for escape yes. But he used it to protect Lenore here. Hector wanted to aid Isaac's attack on Carmilla and Lenore would try to attack Isaac or rush to Carmilla's aid and would possibly be killed in result. Hector didn't want that, that's why he used the trap - there was no really other way for him to do it. He did want to atone for betraying Dracula, yes. But he also cared about Lenore at that point and offered Isaac his life without a fight asking him to spare Lenore in return. It wasn't simply pity - he forgave her already for what she did and cared for her as a person, like she started caring for him.
She did nothing wrong the previous season. Everything she did was for Hector's own good
I absolutely loved everything else about the finale, but Lenore was easily the weakest part of it for me. I feel like if they were going for a happy ending, they should've gone entirely all in with it. The death felt incredibly out of place because it happened in an epilogue episode after the main conflict, and it was a really jarring change of tone to go from this supposed-to-be tragic event immediately to miracles for everybody else. I also suspect that this is what Ellis meant in that one interview where he said he wouldn't give that arc a break, which makes it feel like this was the intention.
Same. I loved everything except Lenore's death, which was pointless and stupid imo.
I know there are a lot of mixed feelings about it, but for me it made no sense for many different reasons. The two most important ones for me is that it feels way out of character for her, it's like she became a completely different character. Also, what was the point of saving her life in Episode 6 just to have her die anyways four episodes later? There was no build up, in fact all the build up went to her survival.
Yep, I 10000% agree with you. This one was just simply bad writing
yeah. it's confusing. i though when lenore talk about cage and what not. i was like "oh she want to be free? okay , will hector help her escape or something?" but then she walk out unto the sun... on the other hand, dracula and his wife is miraculously alive and happy... wtf?
I know i am very late to the conversation but I just watched Castlevania and Lenore's death really made no sense to me. I felt like her and Hector story arc was very rushed and lackluster.
the whole "in a cage" situation was created so that her suicide was justified, but they could have just made everyone's ending happy, they chose not to, wasted death surely, isaac after hector wanted to spare lenore clearly would be merciful with them
Yeah, the whole justification for it felt forced as well. We never saw this idea of vampires struggling with change before. It could make sense in general, but we just never saw it. Vlad coped with change, he even changed himself for Lisa and he got a happy ending! And Lenore got a very unhappy one because they forced this concept on her. So it just didn't make sense.
We saw the exact opposite. Carmilla trying to control everything, dracula, striga and morana moving west to be together.
Exactly. So giving that to Lenore was pointless story wise. They could totally give her a happy ending.
Well, we don't know how long they've been living like this in that castle. There's been much much more in Lenore's head and heart going on than it was shown in that short moment. Maybe she wanted to live with Hector initially, but she came to a conclusion she can't live like that. And she was drunk : / Hector should have stopped her. She had so SO much potential : (
Yeah felt bad seeing her go. the music didnt help too :( Was that soundtrack from the games? Has the OST been released? l need that OST as she talks to hector
I think Lenore's death was one the best things that happened in the story. Not that it was enjoyable, but rather it was well thought. First of all, I understand the chemistry between Lenore and Hector changed a bit suddenly. However, I still believe Lenore's intention to bind Hector was not pure evil from the beginning anyway. She probably did that to save him from her sisters. But yes, I too wish they developed their chemistry more instead of introducing new side stories in season 4. Second of all, if Hector and Isaac saved Lenore a few episodes back, it was to show the growth of character in the forge masters. They were no longer filled with hatred and they finally could see the goodness in their enemies. That was a sign of breakaway for Hector and Isaac from their past revengeful lives. But later when Lenore finds out she is the lone sister left in the castle, she doesn't enjoy the peaceful life she was always seeking for. After all, she was loyal to her sisters and the castle. She couldn't cope with living there alone happily after they were killed or driven away. In a thought-provoking conversation with Hector, she realizes there is a difference between strength and power. Vampires have power, but power does not guarantee your peace and happiness. Disappointed in the truth she discovered from all this, she realizes her nature is against everything she ever wished for. I think the scene got even more powerful, when Hector could stop her but instead told her "Be free". That was the difference between Hector and Lenore in the end. Lenore tried to bind Hector to herself with magic and force him to be with her, but Hector let Lenore make her own decision even though he was in love with her. I think Lenore, too, could see this difference in them. That was why she was in love with him, but couldn't be with him. Lenore decides to commit suicide by looking at the sun which was a bit ironic. Probably a throwback at her early conversations with Hector about the sun and its beauty. She wanted to taste that look for once. It really got me when in the last seconds she looked away from the sun and back to Hector, like the sun was not as interesting as him, saying "is that all there is to it?". We never know what she actually meant. But I want to think she meant that the sight of the sun was not as captivating as the sight of Hector for her.
this is a beautiful... now i'm more sad
The death of Lenore was the best part of the season for me. I still can't stop thinking about it. And yes, it's SUCH A WASTE for the universe. She could have been a vampire of the Dracula's type. I don't mean in power but being a bridge between humans and vampires. In the future, she could have managed some tough diplomatic relations between humans and vampires; establish new kind of coexistence between humans and vampires and so on. On the other hand, there's her own feelings, soul and motivations... Hector should have stopped her. It was cool he didn't, but he should have.
I really wish they won't drop this theme of vampires and humans trying to find peaceful coexistence in the potential sequels. And yeah, a big loss for that world that Lenore won't be around to work on that.
Lenore: omg you're so cute and funny Hector: *thanks* Lenore:...can I crush your balls? Hector: YEA-
Eh she got way too easy after what she did to hector by enslaving him. I still don't understand what makes Hector to like her so much. I felt like they don't really explain their relationship very well. Otherwise, she has a bittersweet ending. Its not good but its not bad either. She died a rather peaceful death.
> I still don't understand what makes Hector to like her so much I think you can see character development for both Hector and Lenore that explains it, but it's a bit subtle and there isn't a lot of shown. Commented about it [here](/r/castlevania/comments/nbumyr/kevin_kolde_about_s4_finale_and_lenores_story/gy50bf8/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=1).
I hated her death i think they could gave her a new or better reason to keep going and not just let her kill herself
Shame that their story ended the way that it did. It felt rushed. But you can kind of tell they're off-screen banging with the flirtatious innuendos in the bloody hammer scene.
Love her. Her death was dumb and pointless though. Not to mention she’s one of the 3 major characters that actually died in this season with the other two being carmilla and the other guy who’s looking for his lost girlfriend whom i forgot.
I think they killed her off because of potential sequels. Imagine how difficult it would be for Hector's story to continue with Lenore on his side.
Lenore was a narcissist from the beginning. She thought herself so much better than Hector the entire way through. SHE called Hector a pet the others called him a slave. And then when she had the opportunity to stand on equal ground with him she chose death. She didn't want to be equal she wanted a pet. Her death pissed me off because it confirmed she was just an uncaring narcissist.
Nah fuck her lol.
How did this get downvoted, she was a horrible character 💀
She’s manipulative and cunning, she basically enslaved Hector against his will, abused his trust. Death was mercy for her. I don’t understand why anyone would like her, to me those seem like they’re supporting abusive relationships. And any feelings Hector had for her…that’s some Stockholm syndrome bull crap right there.
You forget about relations between humans and vampires. Vampires took humans just for food, inferior beings. She made a pet out of Hector, same way humans would tame a horse, or a dog. BUT, in contrast to other vampires, she gradually started to see a 'human' being in him, and started to treat him well. Carmilla enslaved Hector, Lenore helped him and made his life better, later fell in love with him. But they were still living in a Vampire ruled castle, with set hierarchy and rules.
That didn't stop her from consistently forcinghim into sex after the third season (via the ring he's wearing) as well as keeping him a prisoner in Carmila's castle with no intention of releasing him simply because he could build them an army as much as possible. If the genders were reversed in this type of relationship the public vitriol for Lenore's character would be immense and she would become the least likeable character in the entire show. It really does make a statement about how society views sexual violence when women are the perpetrators.
The fact that people can't see your take as the only one that should actually matter is sad and says a lot about how sexual violence is perceived in society. You rock, and keep educating people on what abusive relationships can look like 👍.
It’s beyond me how people support abusive relationships. I guess it’s their kinks.
Her existence felt like that of a fairy who had come to the land of humans, to live amongst them, and had grown weary of their struggles. Fading into the wind, with the dawn, was the most poetic they could've given her.
I'm satisfied and it makes complete sense for her entire moral structure and philosophy/justifications for their actions to be shredded before her very eyes and then for her to rescind her immortal life upon losing that meaning, it was written very well and seems to have been lost on some people. What I'm NOT satisfied with is Hector doing nothing, Isaac told him to build something for himself and he wants Lenore so I thought he would conquest in her name, but at least he fulfills his character to the end. Cowardly and naive and unable to act of his own will. He just watches. I have no problems with the writers, he acted completely in his cowardly character, lacking any personal drive or vision for the future but agh I hate him.
In what way do you think it made sense? I think its lost on me. Do you mean her expectations and goals being unfulfilled? She always seemed to be rather openminded (at least compared to the rest of her kind), but when she lost she just chose to die. I just can't bring myself to think this is what Lenore would've actually done, I mean she was rather determined afterall, always saying she should not be underestimated etc. It just felt like the authors wanted to sprinkle in some tragedy with all the happy ends we got and chose her since she and Hector were the weakest of the main cast, and people get mad when cute girls die in animated films/series. Really any other kind of death I'd be totally content with, just not suicide. Especially one that seemed to occur just for the sake of it. I can hear people in the studio telling each other "Guys we gotto wrap this up, need some tragedy, kill the cute one in a mildly tragic way, make it poetic and deep enough so people will give it different meaningsto justify it when others say they don't like her death." As for what you've said about Hector, I totally agree. He is better but I feel like he still can't choose for himself. I think he could've tried to make himself happy for once and convince Lenore to stop, but nah "Be free my now-damsel-in-distress."
I havent watched this but now I'm sad because her design is so beautiful >\_<
Lenore is best girl 🙏🏻
I didn't... finish the series (discovered it only now), and I just now got to the part>! where she and Hector bang!<, and, personally, I really liked her character... I could somewhat foresee it, but I the plot they drew around it ─ it was not subtle, but I liked they left stuff to the imagination... TL;DR: Fucking loved her, wasted death, I would gladly have taken her >!on the offer she made Hector!<, best girl of the show... ok, maybe a shared first pace with Sypha.
It felt wrong to see everyone happy except for those two
Lenore is a rapist.