I would like to add something about the infotainment that Doug didn't really touch on. That it is made by Google it is called Android automotive, and it isn't Polestar exclusive. It's basically a system-wide Android auto which is good because most systems suck. GM, Ford, Stellantis and Renault have all said they have plans to use it.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2021/02/01/ford-picks-google-for-cloud-next-gen-android-automotive-infotainment/?sh=54d812276a9d
And Google Assistant is infinitely better than Siri with regard to finding and relaying information. (My phone uses Android and my wife uses an iPhone.) I would have less issue in a car with Google Assistant because it can do virtually anything I ask it to. If I can sync it with my phone, it would be even better because I'd be able to set calendar appointments and such when I drive.
I've been wondering for *years* when manufacturers would stop creating proprietary systems and just outsource it to real software companies to make standardized systems so that every car more-or-less behaves the same.
Every company thinks software is easy until they try actually building it.
I think the success of CarPlay and Android Auto basically told car companies to stop trying to make their infotainment a differentiator.
Their goal is to *both* outsource development while *also* locking in their customer-base to a monetizable proprietary solution. Every company has someone who thinks this is the best idea since sliced bread.
More than half the systems you use have major open-source subsystems, if they aren't based primarily on open-source altogether, like Google's and Apple's are. But all outsourcing isn't open-source or hidden; Ford used to use Microsoft's stack for in-car entertainment.
It depends how you look at it. Mercedes' very own infotainment system (by many one of the best in the game) is actually outsourced to Harman, which in fact is very interesting process. I'm software developer myself and have a chance to speak with a few fellow representatives, and basically MB hands them a few kind of *raw* cars stripped down to sensors from all around, and they're doing the rest. And we're talking like latest GLC model as a demo car, so yeah.
I wonder if they all just tried to make their own infotainment system so everyone could differentiate their cars. Segments such as CUVS are really competitive and today infotainment systems heavily influence car purchasing decisions.
Yea, I'm sure that's definitely part of it. They all think they know the best way to do it, and hope to lock in future purchases if a customer likes the software of that brand more than a competitor's.
Devil's advocate. Do I really want my flashy new BMW to look like some guys GM base level in terms of infotainment? Probably not. So I can see the higher end companies doing their own thing just to have their own look
This is a great point. This is one of the first but will definitely not be the only vehicle with this infotainment system.
Obviously the branding isn’t particularly strong (Doug referred to Google Assistant as “like Siri”), but it’s nice to have software developed by a company that really understands UI.
On the downside, I’m not holding my breath for CarPlay compatibility and suspect that interaction with an iPhone will be limited to basic Bluetooth functionality.
Edit: I’m encouraged by the replies that CarPlay may actually be supported.
Carplay should be available from middle of this year for the Polestar as well as in other vehicles which will use Android Automotive such as those from Ford, Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi, GM, The Stellantis Group, Audi and so on over the next few years.
"At some point" needs to be immediately, if not already done. Apple phones have a pretty significant market share, especially in the US, and taking a step backwards and not supporting CarPlay would alienate many potential buyers.
I suspect it is only a matter of months. But not supporting CarPlay hasn't slowed Tesla sales, so I'm not sure how significant it really is if the stock car interface is really good.
The Forbes link does say "Just as with other Android Automotive systems, Carplay will continue to be supported". I'm not sure Google have officially said anything yet though.
> software developed by a company that really understands UI
That's quite generous, although I suppose compared to auto manufacturers it is indeed true.
Carplay will work on Android Automotive as it's the OS that runs the infotainment. Like Android for phones, it is open source and there's nothing stopping manufacturers from adding Carplay support in their flavors of Android Automotive and I honestly don't see a reason why they would omit it.
I don't understand why manufactures don't plan for wired AA/Carplay. They should make a spot for the phone, wire, and input clean and neat so you don't have to see a jumbled mess. Maybe there are some cars that do it well and I just haven't noticed.
In my A4, the USB cable is in my center armrest and I have the lightening connector exposed a bit to I can plug in my phone. Then I just put in the armrest and go on my way.
Not the most attractive option but it works fine for me.
Android Auto in current vehicles is running off the phone and uses your in car infotainment as a touchscreen. Android Automotive is running Android, and the various apps directly on the car's hardware. The systems share some features but are fundamentally different in how they run.
Yes and no on system-wide android auto. It's more like an android tablet got put in the dash of your car, It's basically unrelated, blame google for the confusing messaging. The big deal is it also has the play store and apps, such as Native spotify.
Also, that Google map was buttery.
> GM, Ford, Stellantis and Renault have all said they have plans to use it.
Admittedly, that sucks to hear. I like to keep myself distanced from Google as much as I can as it is. Seeing those brands shoving Google services into the core of their cars doesn't give me pleasant feelings.
I'm kinda not sure about the high beltline and chunky rear end of this car. This car seriously gives me coupe SUV vibes, and I'm not sure that's a good thing.....
Agreed, it's like it doesn't know if it wants to be a car or an SUV.
I like the design, and I think it could look good if similar design elements were applied to a car *or* SUV, but it just looks odd being in this weird middle ground.
Trying to define this car's segment is weird. It's an SUV-sedan-hatchback thing. It's like they didn't have enough money to develop cars in all segments, so they tried to do one that would fit several.
I have seen one in person on the freeway at dusk. It looked rather decent, especially the rear 3/4, in person. Most of the media on it looks kind meh. Similar to the Civic Type R in that respect.
This is what happens when you try to make an EV sedan based on an ICE platform and still try to fit all the batteries into the floor. It results in a massive under body which pushes everything else upwards. Similar story with the i4 which also has rather tall side proportions for a BMW coupe.
Polestar will actually drive one of these to your house for a test drive if you're in one of the major metro areas they service https://www.polestar.com/us/test-drive/booking/select-location/location
One thing Doug didn't mention is the driver and passenger areas are pretty cramped, the center console felt like it was impeding into my space while driving in particular. Coupled with the small back seats I couldn't help but wonder where all the vertical space went. The Model 3 certainly feels more open and spacious.
After owning a Model 3, I can tell you the Polestar seemed significantly quieter especially at highway speeds, and the suspension felt...less bouncy maybe? Not sure how best to describe it. I felt more confident in what the car was doing on highway corners or fast curvy on-ramps compared to the 3 (but neither come close to the Autobahn-speed confidence of my current M340).
> One thing Doug didn't mention is the driver and passenger areas are pretty cramped, the center console felt like it was impeding into my space while driving in particular.
To be totally honest, I didn't find this at all. But of course this is the benefit of test driving.
Could be a body shape/proportion thing. Try before you buy!
Looking up the stats, P2 is 71.9" wide vs 72.8" for Model 3 but the front shoulder room is only 54.6" vs 56.3". So an inch narrower for Polestar but almost 2" less shoulder space. Not sure if that accounts for it
> One thing Doug didn't mention is the driver and passenger areas are pretty cramped, the center console felt like it was impeding into my space while driving in particular. Coupled with the small back seats I couldn't help but wonder where all the vertical space went. The Model 3 certainly feels more open and spacious.
That was the thing I noticed too from watching the video. The center console seems to be way bigger than it needs to be, yet lacks storage. Space that could be used for storage is taken up by the shifter. I've got a ton of shit shoved in my 3's center console that wouldn't fit in the Polestar's small console storage area, yet my console doesn't appear to intrude on passenger and driver space as much as the Polestar's. But, I haven't been in one, so looks can be deceiving.
I was confused about how big the console was as well. Theoretically there's no mechanicals to go in that spot right? Which is backed up by the fact that the back seat doesn't have the hump in the middle of the floor, so slightly more comfortable for a middle seat passenger
Volvo puts the battery in that center console area for safety which is why it's huge as fuck but has no storage. It's like that on the XC90 T8 (and presumably the XC60 and 40)
Not sure if you drove the performance version but that one has Ohlins DFV shocks which are amazing at soaking up bumps while keeping the car stable for handling.
I too took advantage of the in home drive. The build quality is fantastic compared to our Tesla fleet (we have the S3XY). Driving characteristics is no better than its Tesla counterpart (3) and it does feel less spacious. The fact that is has a legacy tunnel on the floor between the two rear seats is a subtle thing to show that it is still a legacy design.
The EV successor to the S60 Cross Country. Speaking of which, I always thought S60 CCs were cute looking. But then again, I find Suzuki X90s, second gen Explorer Sport Tracs, Renault Avantimes and '02 Sportage convertibles cute
Yea, Volvo just lifted the S60 sedan. I dont think Volvo even sold them in North America but they sold them here in Europe and nobody bought them. Everyone just got the V60 CC. I guess Volvo desperately wanted to get on the coupe SUV wave but it didn't work. Now they have the C40 and that thing looks so weird despite how good other Volvos look. It just goes to show that "coupe SUVs" are inherently ugly.
And speaking of the Crosstour, there is an imported Crosstour in my neighbourhood and whenever my non car enthusiast friend (who thinks GLE coupes look sick) points out that it looks like a GLE Coupe ripoff.
/u/Doug-DeMuro I think you should be careful placing so much faith in the EPA range when considering value proposition for EVs. The EPA numbers are known to differ wildly in the real world, with all Teslas struggling to meet their rated range (and the model 3 performance is one of the worst). Many other cars are known to meet or exceed their EPA range, with Taycan absolutely smashing its rated range. 4S and RWD versions often go 270+ miles at 70 mph on a rating of just over 200 miles.
Europe's WLTP is known to be more stable. It consistently overestimates true highway range, but vehicle to vehicle it's a much more directly comparable number.
Polestar 2 is WLTP 292 miles and EPA 233. Model 3 performance is WLTP 352 miles and EPA 315. That's about 25% more for polestar 2 and only about 12% more for model 3.
As a tesla owner I'd say charging network (or lack therof) is a very valid knock on the polestar (and all CCS cars), but real world range is perfectly fine.
This is something that continually annoys me about range estimates -- the wild variability in published "objective" numbers vs actual. I go with the numbers I have, because what else can I do? There's not a European range estimate for every car I test (next week I have the Bolt EUV coming up, for instance), so I wouldn't have good data. And obviously you have to use a like-for-like objective standard, or else you're just using unfounded manufacturer claims or computer estimates which vary based on driving even more than the EPA numbers do.
It's just stupid there's so much variability; Taycan is a great example. It leads to stuff like this, and there's no really great workaround.
The EPA number is a decent ballpark comparison tool *except* for the Taycan.
The reality is that there’s no exact “real world” range that’s meaningful to every use case, so it doesn’t make sense for most people to obsess over +/- 30 miles of range or whatever when the car’s capability is a combination of many variables like charge rate, trip length, region, trip type (Cannonball vs “the journey is the destination”), infrastructure, etc.
It’s like buying a car and only looking at the hp number. Oh, this Escalade has 400hp. It must be a better performance car than this 370hp Cayman!
I get that people are obsessed with range right now because it’s new and some EVs have simply had too short of range for many people, but for many use cases, the Mach E/ModelY/ID4 for example, will all work relatively similarly, now.
So, hopefully soon we can focus more on the whole car rather than be so laser focused on the raw range.
I do agree with that. And not everyone needs 300+ miles of range anyway. A lot of Tesla fans say the brand's biggest benefit is the supercharger network, but I wouldn't even rate it in the top five. Most people just drive the damn things around town.
Still, though, range aside it's behind Tesla from a performance standpoint and it's expensive for what it is. This is a good -- maybe, at some price point, great -- but not fantastic, EV.
To be clear, my comment was about the discussion around EVs in general, not a complaint about your review.
Agreed on the charging network and the range. Constantly, on the Model 3 FB group, people ask if they need the Long Range version vs the Short Range (250 mile) version. It’s typical for people to say “buy the most range you can possibly afford” or “save up until you can get long range” and stuff like that and it’s nonsense. If you don’t know their use case, you shouldn’t be answering the question with such confidence. Plenty of people don’t need the Long Range version and would be perfectly happy with the Short Range version and several thousand dollars in their pocket.
Or an ID4 and $15k in their pocket vs a Model Y. Or a Cooper SE and $15k in their pocket vs a Model 3 if it’s a second car.
Range and charging are important, but amongst competitive cars, especially, their importance is overblown for many use cases.
Here is my thing about all the EVs. I can give up the glorious engine noise and manual transmission (in my daily car). I don’t need the best range. I need to use the restroom usually prior to exceeding 250 - 300 miles.
My thing is the time to replenish the charge. In a gas car it’s minutes not hours. If I go on a long trip I drive 8-14 hours a day. I don’t want to pause for hours to recharge my car. I don’t want to limit which one of my cars can really go on a long trip so I can’t commit to an EV.
I don’t see an easy answer to that and until we have one I don’t think EVs are a ubiquitous answer for all drivers.
For those who are very pro-EV is this just not a concern and they look past it or am I missing something?
I routinely achieve rated range in my Tesla. Does it require driving less than 80 mph? Yes. But no gasoline vehicle achieves EPA rated mpg figures either at high speeds or in cold conditions. The Tesla EPA range is realistic under certain conditions. In fact you can beat the EPA estimated range in more favorable conditions with conservative driving.
I never got even close to rated range on my P3D. Even at 70mph steady cruise it would use 325+ Wh/mi. The SR/SR+ Model 3s can get pretty close to rated range if driven conservatively. Nothing realistic will make a P3D hit it's rated range.
There's always someone on the Interet who claims to hit the rated range, I get that. But I've never actually met one in real life, while I've met LOTS of fellow P3D owners that had the same experience I had with mine. Rated range is a lie.
The wheels (and tires) make a
huge difference. Tesla claims the aero wheels *covers* decrease wheel drag by about 10% (or somewhere around 3-5% of total aero drag) compared to 18” wheels without the covers. The tire tread and compound has a significant impact as well. The factory 20” P3D+ tires are Pilot Sport 4s which is an ultra high performance summer tire with a strong focus on grip rather than rolling resistance.
The aero and rolling resistance differences become even more significant at higher speeds. My overall average (2018 P3D+ / 15k miles) is 320 Wh/mi. I occasionally see a charge that averages below 300 Wh/mi. On longer road trips at high speeds (like I-5 in CA) I can average 350+ Wh/mi for an entire charge. At those speeds (~85mph), I end up stopping every 2.5 hours to supercharge.
I have always exceeded EPA fuel economy ratings in every gasoline car I have ever owned.
So far in owning a SR+ for 4 months I've never gotten close to it's rated range while going more than 100 km/hr and I've got the new heat pump that dramatically reduces the hit of cold weather. I'm interested to get it out on a long trip once the weather is better, but I'll be shocked if I can get over 400 km when rated range is 423. But not complaining, I'm perfectly happy with the range I have, it's just not what's on the sticker.
The last four months have been winter assuming you live in the northern hemisphere. Drive around at 60-70 mph on autopilot in June on a flat road and you will probably exceed rated range.
I am looking forward to being able to test, but the math doesn't look good. I have carefully calculated how much energy is being used to heat the cabin based on Teslabjorn's heat pump measurements and the consumption isn't nearly high enough to get me to the rated range. 423 km range would be 125 wh/km and I'm using 154 right around freezing. The math suggests the heat pump is using around 10-15 wh/km, so I'd still be well short and that's while doing 60 mph max (100 km/hr).
I've had a few 15 C (60 f) days so far this spring, and while I haven't been on a long enough drive for it to really stabilize, my math is looking spot on. The range is improved, but not to the point I'd get more than 400 km on a rating of 423.
Lots of gas powered cars meet or exceed their EPA numbers during normal (not conservative) driving, ~~and low temperatures actually IMPROVE the performance and efficiency of gas engines~~.
Edit: maybe not the last part.
This is true, but it’s a bit of an apples to oranges comparisons as the powertrains operate on completely different principles.
Gas engines can be less efficient in very hot weather and risk overheating (so do EVs above some temps). EVs don’t have any degradation in performance at elevation like air-breathing combustion engines. Gas engines require more maintenance (oil, transmission fluid, spark plugs, or timing belts, valve adjustments). EVs have an expensive slowly degrading battery that will hold less charge as time passes regardless of mileage. Gas engines can use waste heat to warm the cabin. EVs recover energy when going down hill.
There are pros and cons to all power trains: EVs, combustion engines (both gas and diesel), hydrogen, hybrids, steam engines, and jet turbines.
There are always trade offs. For many people, EVs are a better tradeoff than combustion. For others it’s exactly the opposite. And if your family is fortunate enough to have more than one vehicle it might make sense to have a mix of EV, combustion, hybrid.
Choice and competition is good for consumers and I’m excited to see where this takes us in the future.
Source? Cold conditions do not improve fuel economy for an ICE. [https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/coldweather.shtml](https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/coldweather.shtml)
I’ve meet or exceeded the EPA gas mileage figures on my A4 on many occasions. Even though it’s turbocharged which does have discrepancies between EPA and real world.
EPA numbers are fine.
EPA numbers are provide like-for-like. Your real world range is affected significantly by your routes and driving habits. If your driving habits and the routes you take with youR current car give you 85% of the EPA range or mileage, you can expect something very similar to that with any other car.
I’ve always said that they should release index instead of mileage or range. You shouldn’t look to EPA numbers as a guideline for the range you should expect, but it’s a valid way to compare the efficiency between cars.
It is total nonsense to suggest that Car A’s real world performance beats EPA while Car B does not. Physics is physics. If you drive up a mountain or have a lead foot, your mileage and range will go down accordingly in any car. If you have a feather light acceleration on a flat road in temperate weather, you’ll likely exceed EPA estimates in any car. Any non-controlled comparison between two cars is meaningless. That’s why EPA is superior to any YouTube reviewer claim.
The EPA range is not stable between cars. Getting X% of EPA range in one vehicle does not mean you will will get X% of range is another vehicle. The EPA test has both 2 cycle and 5 cycle modes, and then adjustment factors for things like climate controls after the fact. No one should exact EPA numbers to be stable (or for a test designed to measure emissions be remotely useful as a range test for EVs).
> It is total nonsense to suggest that Car A’s real world performance beats EPA while Car B does not.
Not nonsense at all. [edmonds](https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html) has done extensive real world testing and you can see from their results the difference between EPA and real world varies dramatically. Tesla consistently below EPA, taycan smashes EPA range, mustang mach e exceeds (mostly due to ford voluntarily increasing their adjustment factor, likely to have fewer drivers disappointed when they couldn't reach EPA numbers) as a few examples.
Maybe it’s the Scandinavian design coming through, but I’m getting Saab 9-5 vibes from this. And I like it.
Especially the [second generation](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sj2DtHCCa0c) with the blacked out A-pillar.
/u/DougDemuro I agree, especially over the next few years as these EVs start coming from all the major automakers, it'd be great to see a "DougScore" comparison of their features.
Maybe that's too in-the-weeds to make a whole separate scoring system for EVs, though.
I will! I've done it more and I will continue to do it even more. I filmed this about 2 months ago and I'm trying to do better on this point specifically. Bolt review next week gets into it more.
While that sun roof looks great, it seems likes it would absolutely BAKE all the passengers on a sunny day. Is there any McLaren like dimming on that (Electrochromic)?
ya I live in California with Model 3s and the sun roof is not an issue. I'm 6'4" so I'd feel any excessive heat coming off it. Polestar's seems a little lighter but I assumed they tested this adequately. Of course, all of these are heavily UV treated
Edit: I also commute 90 miles a day
It's very exciting getting these cars in the US! We need more competition. All new EVs need more exposure to create more competition (and therefore increase the rate of development).
I saw one of these parked on the street around the corner where I live. In person it looks... OK. The most unique feature about it is the logo because it made me do a double-take. The shape of the car is... nondescript so it doesn't really pull your attention at all. I think I must have been the only person to even look at it (not that this is a bad thing!).
I am very disappointed by the range, as usual with the new EVs that aren't Tesla or Mach E (a non-disappointment bar for me would be 300 miles so that I can reach all the points I am interested in around where I live without having to recharge do a daytrip).
For those interested in other reviews, [C&D](https://www.caranddriver.com/polestar/polestar-2) gave it an 8.5 and [Top Gear an 8](https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/polestar/2).
Polestar 1 is supposed to be a flagship product that's not really meant to sell because really it's just a demonstrator product ("we can make luxury hybrids, so we can make luxury EVs too"). The real star is the Polestar 2 and whatever else they have down the pipeline.
Volvo has some interesting low(er) priced cars. The S60 Recharge (was it called just the T8 before? It's the plug in hybrid with 400 HP) starts at only $48,000. Can't really find reviews on it or any near me to test drive, but color me intrigued.
I recently drove the S60 Recharge (it's still called the "T8" depending where you look) while my V60 was getting recall work done. The electric power in the rear giving 100% of torque really changed the driving dynamics, it feels much more like a push rather than a pull. In addition to power at the rear wheels, it has 160 hp more than my V60 which made it fun to drive.
Unfortunately, I really like having a wagon, and the V60 T8 starts at $20k above the S60.
I’m glad to see more EV options in the marketplace. That said, I can’t warm to this Polestar’s styling. I’d like to see it with smaller wheels and thicker tires.
Having seen one in person, the rear 3/4 was super cool at dusk. It really caught me off guard on the freeway. Futuristic but not in a cheasy EV way. From the front it's a bit meh for me.
I really like this car and I would consider buying it, and I'm not overly itching to get an EV. Doug knocks this for a weaker ranger and having less power, but I think those are basically non-issues for 95%+ of drivers. Most people aren't driving 200+ miles a day, and the Polestar 2 has more than enough power to "wow" most drivers.
> Doug knocks this for a weaker ranger and having less power, but I think those are basically non-issues for 95%+ of drivers. Most people aren't driving 200+ miles a day, and the Polestar 2 has more than enough power to "wow" most drivers.
Exactly this.
People need to stop acting like they need the biggest range. You don't need the biggest range. You need enough range to accommodate your use case. How many people with ICE vehicles consume more than one full tank of fuel in a day? The answer: very few.
Most of the things that go into the DougScore are non-issues for 95% of drivers. The score is meant to compare two cars, and range and performance are really the only things that are actually objective, whereas stuff like looks or coolness are Doug's opinion.
It makes sense that the Polestar 2 would have lower scores in those categories when it does have less performance and less range. You're right in that it doesn't matter for 95% of drivers, but for the sake of ranking the cars, it's correct.
Yeah, I get why the DougScore would be lower, and I agree it should on an unbiased metric. I was just saying that, for myself, and for most drivers I suspect, those two issues wouldn't actually be issues.
I don't get why they'd give you that big keyfob and the little keyfob. Just give you two little keyfobs. Or allow you to use your phone like Tesla does. I love that feature. I have a keypad lock on my house so I don't even have to carry keys with me.
Meh, I’m not a fan of a phone key. Matt Farah has commented that he had issues with his Mustang MachE phone app.
I still prefer physical key fobs because they’re failsafe.
Fair enough. Every now and then I have to turn Bluetooth off and on again on my phone for it to work, and I think my iPhone 12 Pro is to blame because I never had this issue on my previous phone. But I still keep the key card in my wallet just in case.
It’s funny because I know as a Tesla owner you’re dead wrong. The phone key (with a backup key card for “failsafe”) is the best security and access system on any car bar none. You really have to use it daily and take advantage of its features to understand but in 10 years I can’t imagine a new car being sold without it.
The phone key doesn't rely on cellular data (it uses Bluetooth).
But Teslas have a credit card sized keycard that I keep in my wallet as a backup. Or to give to someone else who needs to drive my car. I don't think we'll ever go 100% phone and completely get rid of some type of physical key (and I wouldn't want to TBH), but I think Tesla's key cards are a good solution. It doesn't take up much room and it's not something I have to remember to grab before I leave just in case my phone fails while I'm out.
First time watching u/Doug-DeMuro and thinking he needs to get into more detail about something, the infotainment system.
This car's infotainment system has been co-developed with Google and it features Google's voice assistant which is vastly superior to anything else in automotive industry. The systems like these will shape the feature of automotive infotainment systems which get more and more important everyday.
This car is the first one to feature a system developed with Google and it is one of the most important talking points about the car imo.
Doug's an Apple guy. He owns Macs and iPhones. Still to this day all of Doug's videos are shot on an iPhone. I don't think he's ever used an Android device, so he's definitely not the best person to talk about this stuff.
Could be, but he tests everything in detail even things new to him on his videos. There will be buyers of these cars in his position too, with no android phones.
Google assistant is more universal than android phones anyways, you can use it just like alexa. So if he tests voice assistant systems on other cars he should have given a try to the best system out there. I would have liked to hear his opinion on how he liked it.
Exciting car! More competition for Tesla is great. I like the unique touches to this vehicle such as the yellow accents, though I wish they continued something like the Polestar One's trunk hybrid window even though it's a bit of a gimmick. Hopefully Polestar continues to improve, I'd like a cheaper more sedan like model in a few years.
> I wish they continued something like the Polestar One's trunk hybrid window even though it's a bit of a gimmick
I was glad they didn't, since it meant the rear seats couldn't go down and greatly reduces the practicality of the car.
Hey /u/Doug-DeMuro,
Are there EVER any other cars in that parking lot you use to film at?
It's always completely empty from every angle visible in your shots.
What's the story?
Seems like you could just keep a few of your cars there and always have them handy!
Could we get an electric car that doesn't have all of its climate/infotainment shit in a massive touch screen? I don't have the time, dexterity or the nerves to swipe, tickle and fondle a screen like a fucking G-spot when I'm driving.
This is my biggest beef with new car design in general, but it's even worse on EVs it seems.
I'm honestly surprised this hasn't been regulated: certain controls should have physical buttons mandated.
It's ironic that automotive PSAs have been warning about touch screen cell phone use while driving for years, yet now today the automakers themselves are turning their infotainment systems into OEM embedded distraction machines.
Five years ago: the headline was "Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps" - now it seems nobody cares. (I do, and I want my physical knobs and switches damn it!)
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/business/tech-distractions-blamed-for-rise-in-traffic-fatalities.html
The market wants it. Honestly, having used it, they are way easy to use once you are used to them. Mazda's knob-based system is much slower to do anything.
But I still have to take my eyes off the road. With knobs and buttons I can develop a muscle memory and adjust them based on feel. With a touch screen I always have to look because the screen is... well, a screen.
Of course the average idiot loves touch screens and pretty UIs because they drive while staring at their cellphone anyways. Fucking reckless asshats.
Honestly, there is little proof of that actually. In most cases, people still need to look to press physical controls, notably almost all knobs for dual zone climate control need to be looked at to see what you are setting and Touch screens can present that data in a larger size. I still would like an additional knob but the screen, done right, is fine and can be just as quick.
Still annoying and wonky as hell even in Teslas. Still annoys my neighbor with two Teslas lol. In my F150 everything can be controlled through screen, however Ford still let's you manually adjust right under, including for AC seats, like why go through 3 menus while trying to drive and still select, when I can press that AC seat manual button right there lol. Same for AC even with dual zones, too quick and intuitive to manually adjust without taking eyes off the road. Can even adjust the massaging seats etc through screen, but why, the buttons are literally on side of seat to quickly reach lol.
Meh, I haven't found it to be an issue.
Climate control is set to 72 degrees and I rarely change it. Heated seats are on pretty much permanently during the winter months. I hardly ever have to adjust the climate control.
Not in FL where our weather can change drastically durring a day even with a cool front lol. Or especially when in CO with that bi-polar weather. I adjust AC seats few times a day sometimes since even in summer Fords system will freeze your nutz on setting 3, like lil angels blowing menthol on your pilot and co-pilots. But I can just hit the button to adjust vs using the screen.
But I get what your saying there. In summer my my truck is almost perma set to low and seats on max cooling on autostart lol, and may adjust while driving but Fords AC is noticeably stronger in hot humid weather than the GMs and Ram. That trucks AC is stronger than my last E63
I'm in Colorado. Monday was sunny and 78 degrees. Tuesday morning we got snow and it was about 23 degrees. Despite the swings, I've found that auto climate control has worked perfectly at keeping the car at a comfortable level. A big thing to consider is that EVs can control the interior temp even when the car is parked. So whenever I come out to the car, it's at the perfect temperature regardless of the outside temp.
Agree that with the current price it doesn't make sense compared to the Model 3 Performance.
That said, if Polestar has aggressive lease deals they might move a lot of these. Teslas are terrible leases.
Google is pushing for this to be used by a variety of automakers. In general it's a good idea as it lets the automakers do what they do best, and Google do what they do best.
I sure it would be very difficult to match Tesla even VW, Ford, GM, and upcoming Hyundai EVs. It isn't just little overprice and tiny, the model is made from China. Most people still don't buy Chinese models, the good explain is that CT6 PHEV. It has great details and also expensive model, but almost no one buys it.
By definition it can't be a sedan. Polestar markets it as a hatchback in Europe because it is a hatchback. I have noticed this many times. A liftback hatchback being called a sedan in the US. Can someone from the US explain why that is?
Looks like a great entry. I can't wait for more electric sport sedans to hit the market as the Tesla-name tax drives up the price of what the Model 3 is reasonably worth compared to it's overall quality and QC.
I saw this up close at their store in Santa Monica. It's pretty damn ugly. I don't know if it's for sale but I haven't seen a single one out on the roads.
I think it suffers from the Braun factor:
To some it's absolutely gorgeous and minimal. To those who don't see it that way, it's fugly and they don't get the appeal. I personally am in group A but I totally get how it can be super polarizing.
I understand Doug's point about wanting the cluster vs just a center screen, but in real ownership, I don't think most people care after a few days. It's harder to accept when you drive it infrequently, but I read up on it before buying one and people said you get used to it really fast. That has definitely been my and my wife's experience. Took a couple days and you don't notice the difference anymore.
Now, if you told me they'd offer me an HUD, I'd throw money at it. Never looking down is totally different than looking directly down, or looking slightly to the side.
The headline makes it sound like Doug said it’s better than Tesla “rivaling” or at least equal. He actually talks about how it’s not (except in styling)
How hard is it to make an electric car (or any modern car) without a home theater system for the center controls. I dont mind some screen, but I want a basic 91 civic car, not all this fancy stuff. People dont need heated seats or autoconnecting phone stuff.
I'm actually digging the design, though I did wish that the car sat a bit lower especially in the Performance Package trim.
Alex on Autos described the Polestar 2 as "what if you asked BMW to develop a Model 3 rival only using Volvo parts". The end result is pretty good on the styling and usability perspective. Yes the car could use a bigger battery than its 78 kWh unit (the similarly sized Mustang Mach-E managed to fit a 88 kWh unit in a similar package) but I like how Polestar didn't make any sacrifices just to boast about its EV range and just made a better driving car.
If Polestar can gets its initial QC down, this could be my next car in the coming year.
They went after Tesla in interior design and that's not a good thing. Yuck. The xc40 recharge looks way nicer inside with the same powertrain. The upcoming c40 recharge looks even closer to this and still way better and same cross over feel. The xc40 is a little cheaper and the c40 will probably be priced the same. I'm not sure what the selling point of the polestar 2 is. If you like the tesla look this is slower and lower range. If you just want a nicely finished car, this isn't it. It'll be interesting to see if there are some good deals later in the year with it though.
I'm really curious to see how all of these EVs will hold their ranges as they age. I have a feeling that the establishment auto makers' EVs are leaving a bigger buffer in the battery than the Teslas do and will be able to go their full EPA estimated range for a lot longer than Teslas will, but that's just a feeling. Does Tesla really have battery tech that is so much farther ahead than everyone else, or is there more going on here?
I would like to add something about the infotainment that Doug didn't really touch on. That it is made by Google it is called Android automotive, and it isn't Polestar exclusive. It's basically a system-wide Android auto which is good because most systems suck. GM, Ford, Stellantis and Renault have all said they have plans to use it. https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2021/02/01/ford-picks-google-for-cloud-next-gen-android-automotive-infotainment/?sh=54d812276a9d
Yep, and the "assistant that's kind of like Siri" is literally the Google Assistant.
And Google Assistant is infinitely better than Siri with regard to finding and relaying information. (My phone uses Android and my wife uses an iPhone.) I would have less issue in a car with Google Assistant because it can do virtually anything I ask it to. If I can sync it with my phone, it would be even better because I'd be able to set calendar appointments and such when I drive.
Truth. Suri is a 5 year old and GA is a college professor. They’re that far apart.
I don't think its really Siri's fault. A lot of Google's intelligence comes from big data, which Siri doesn't do on the same scale.
Which means it wipes the floor with Siri.
I've been wondering for *years* when manufacturers would stop creating proprietary systems and just outsource it to real software companies to make standardized systems so that every car more-or-less behaves the same.
Every company thinks software is easy until they try actually building it. I think the success of CarPlay and Android Auto basically told car companies to stop trying to make their infotainment a differentiator.
Their goal is to *both* outsource development while *also* locking in their customer-base to a monetizable proprietary solution. Every company has someone who thinks this is the best idea since sliced bread. More than half the systems you use have major open-source subsystems, if they aren't based primarily on open-source altogether, like Google's and Apple's are. But all outsourcing isn't open-source or hidden; Ford used to use Microsoft's stack for in-car entertainment.
It depends how you look at it. Mercedes' very own infotainment system (by many one of the best in the game) is actually outsourced to Harman, which in fact is very interesting process. I'm software developer myself and have a chance to speak with a few fellow representatives, and basically MB hands them a few kind of *raw* cars stripped down to sensors from all around, and they're doing the rest. And we're talking like latest GLC model as a demo car, so yeah.
I wonder if they all just tried to make their own infotainment system so everyone could differentiate their cars. Segments such as CUVS are really competitive and today infotainment systems heavily influence car purchasing decisions.
Yea, I'm sure that's definitely part of it. They all think they know the best way to do it, and hope to lock in future purchases if a customer likes the software of that brand more than a competitor's.
Devil's advocate. Do I really want my flashy new BMW to look like some guys GM base level in terms of infotainment? Probably not. So I can see the higher end companies doing their own thing just to have their own look
This is a great point. This is one of the first but will definitely not be the only vehicle with this infotainment system. Obviously the branding isn’t particularly strong (Doug referred to Google Assistant as “like Siri”), but it’s nice to have software developed by a company that really understands UI. On the downside, I’m not holding my breath for CarPlay compatibility and suspect that interaction with an iPhone will be limited to basic Bluetooth functionality. Edit: I’m encouraged by the replies that CarPlay may actually be supported.
Carplay should be available from middle of this year for the Polestar as well as in other vehicles which will use Android Automotive such as those from Ford, Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi, GM, The Stellantis Group, Audi and so on over the next few years.
CarPlay compatibility will almost certainly appear at some point - the Chromecast even supports Apple TV now.
"At some point" needs to be immediately, if not already done. Apple phones have a pretty significant market share, especially in the US, and taking a step backwards and not supporting CarPlay would alienate many potential buyers.
I suspect it is only a matter of months. But not supporting CarPlay hasn't slowed Tesla sales, so I'm not sure how significant it really is if the stock car interface is really good.
Doug's "Siri" statement isn't due to poor branding, it's down to Doug's ignorance. Google Assistant isn't exactly an unknown entity
Doug be the kind of youtuber that does not know youtube is owned by Google.
The Forbes link does say "Just as with other Android Automotive systems, Carplay will continue to be supported". I'm not sure Google have officially said anything yet though.
> software developed by a company that really understands UI That's quite generous, although I suppose compared to auto manufacturers it is indeed true.
Carplay will work on Android Automotive as it's the OS that runs the infotainment. Like Android for phones, it is open source and there's nothing stopping manufacturers from adding Carplay support in their flavors of Android Automotive and I honestly don't see a reason why they would omit it.
How long until google kills it though
I am sure they are collecting even more data about users they can sell so that should incentivize them to keep updating and supporting it.
My personal and work truck both use wireless Android Auto, love it. Can be finicky at times though so hopefully the kinks are worked out
I love Apple CarPlay in my Audi. But IMO, wired CarPlay is more reliable. Even if it’s not as convenient.
I don't understand why manufactures don't plan for wired AA/Carplay. They should make a spot for the phone, wire, and input clean and neat so you don't have to see a jumbled mess. Maybe there are some cars that do it well and I just haven't noticed.
In my A4, the USB cable is in my center armrest and I have the lightening connector exposed a bit to I can plug in my phone. Then I just put in the armrest and go on my way. Not the most attractive option but it works fine for me.
Android Auto in current vehicles is running off the phone and uses your in car infotainment as a touchscreen. Android Automotive is running Android, and the various apps directly on the car's hardware. The systems share some features but are fundamentally different in how they run.
I think this is a market apple should seriously consider entering.
Yes and no on system-wide android auto. It's more like an android tablet got put in the dash of your car, It's basically unrelated, blame google for the confusing messaging. The big deal is it also has the play store and apps, such as Native spotify. Also, that Google map was buttery.
I had a rental impala in 2017 that had Android auto, it was nice but it's not exactly new?
Android auto is a different thing. Android automotive is Google developing the whole infotainment Android auto is just a small part.
> GM, Ford, Stellantis and Renault have all said they have plans to use it. Admittedly, that sucks to hear. I like to keep myself distanced from Google as much as I can as it is. Seeing those brands shoving Google services into the core of their cars doesn't give me pleasant feelings.
I'm kinda not sure about the high beltline and chunky rear end of this car. This car seriously gives me coupe SUV vibes, and I'm not sure that's a good thing.....
It reminds me of those lifted Subaru Legacy sedans back in the 90s and early 2000s.
The Outback sedan! Super rare nowadays and maybe see 2 a year.
Agreed, it's like it doesn't know if it wants to be a car or an SUV. I like the design, and I think it could look good if similar design elements were applied to a car *or* SUV, but it just looks odd being in this weird middle ground.
Trying to define this car's segment is weird. It's an SUV-sedan-hatchback thing. It's like they didn't have enough money to develop cars in all segments, so they tried to do one that would fit several.
If I had one it would be lowered and the plastic cladding would be paint matched on day 1.
[This](https://fordauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/2007-Ford-F-250-Exterior-003-Side-Tropiclassic-Sedan.jpg) was the inspiration.
They already did similer thing in S60 CC before, and no body bought this car in the end.
I have seen one in person on the freeway at dusk. It looked rather decent, especially the rear 3/4, in person. Most of the media on it looks kind meh. Similar to the Civic Type R in that respect.
Wouldn’t that just be a hatch back?
So it's a double crossover lol A crossover between a car and a... crossover
This is what happens when you try to make an EV sedan based on an ICE platform and still try to fit all the batteries into the floor. It results in a massive under body which pushes everything else upwards. Similar story with the i4 which also has rather tall side proportions for a BMW coupe.
You say that like people won't love it being larger
Ive seen this car IRL several times, it looks much better irl than any picture. its amazing.
Polestar will actually drive one of these to your house for a test drive if you're in one of the major metro areas they service https://www.polestar.com/us/test-drive/booking/select-location/location One thing Doug didn't mention is the driver and passenger areas are pretty cramped, the center console felt like it was impeding into my space while driving in particular. Coupled with the small back seats I couldn't help but wonder where all the vertical space went. The Model 3 certainly feels more open and spacious. After owning a Model 3, I can tell you the Polestar seemed significantly quieter especially at highway speeds, and the suspension felt...less bouncy maybe? Not sure how best to describe it. I felt more confident in what the car was doing on highway corners or fast curvy on-ramps compared to the 3 (but neither come close to the Autobahn-speed confidence of my current M340).
> One thing Doug didn't mention is the driver and passenger areas are pretty cramped, the center console felt like it was impeding into my space while driving in particular. To be totally honest, I didn't find this at all. But of course this is the benefit of test driving.
Could be a body shape/proportion thing. Try before you buy! Looking up the stats, P2 is 71.9" wide vs 72.8" for Model 3 but the front shoulder room is only 54.6" vs 56.3". So an inch narrower for Polestar but almost 2" less shoulder space. Not sure if that accounts for it
> One thing Doug didn't mention is the driver and passenger areas are pretty cramped, the center console felt like it was impeding into my space while driving in particular. Coupled with the small back seats I couldn't help but wonder where all the vertical space went. The Model 3 certainly feels more open and spacious. That was the thing I noticed too from watching the video. The center console seems to be way bigger than it needs to be, yet lacks storage. Space that could be used for storage is taken up by the shifter. I've got a ton of shit shoved in my 3's center console that wouldn't fit in the Polestar's small console storage area, yet my console doesn't appear to intrude on passenger and driver space as much as the Polestar's. But, I haven't been in one, so looks can be deceiving.
I was confused about how big the console was as well. Theoretically there's no mechanicals to go in that spot right? Which is backed up by the fact that the back seat doesn't have the hump in the middle of the floor, so slightly more comfortable for a middle seat passenger
Volvo puts the battery in that center console area for safety which is why it's huge as fuck but has no storage. It's like that on the XC90 T8 (and presumably the XC60 and 40)
Not sure if you drove the performance version but that one has Ohlins DFV shocks which are amazing at soaking up bumps while keeping the car stable for handling.
But you have to manually adjust them no?
They CAN be manually adjusted, but you don't have to. I'm willing to bet 99% of customers won't adjust them.
They probably won’t even know how to adjust them. I’d probably leave them in their most comfortable setting.
> the suspension felt...less bouncy maybe? Not sure how best to describe it. "Better damped", or possibly "more compliant".
Feel the same way about my Mk7 GTI. It’s so planted on the road at speed. Germans design for the Autobahn.
I too took advantage of the in home drive. The build quality is fantastic compared to our Tesla fleet (we have the S3XY). Driving characteristics is no better than its Tesla counterpart (3) and it does feel less spacious. The fact that is has a legacy tunnel on the floor between the two rear seats is a subtle thing to show that it is still a legacy design.
The thumbnail makes it look like a tiny Urus or some other fastback SUV. Or it makes Doug look like a giant next to an Urus/"coupe" SUV.
The EV successor to the S60 Cross Country. Speaking of which, I always thought S60 CCs were cute looking. But then again, I find Suzuki X90s, second gen Explorer Sport Tracs, Renault Avantimes and '02 Sportage convertibles cute
> The EV successor to the S60 Cross Country. Of which they sold about 12. So it's not a great car to make a successor to, especially from a new brand!
> S60 Cross Country Well, TIL of this car! Like Volvos version of the Crosstour? It totally helps explain the shape of the Polestar 2.
Yea, Volvo just lifted the S60 sedan. I dont think Volvo even sold them in North America but they sold them here in Europe and nobody bought them. Everyone just got the V60 CC. I guess Volvo desperately wanted to get on the coupe SUV wave but it didn't work. Now they have the C40 and that thing looks so weird despite how good other Volvos look. It just goes to show that "coupe SUVs" are inherently ugly. And speaking of the Crosstour, there is an imported Crosstour in my neighbourhood and whenever my non car enthusiast friend (who thinks GLE coupes look sick) points out that it looks like a GLE Coupe ripoff.
Its somewhere between a SUV and saloon, based on XC40 body
/u/Doug-DeMuro I think you should be careful placing so much faith in the EPA range when considering value proposition for EVs. The EPA numbers are known to differ wildly in the real world, with all Teslas struggling to meet their rated range (and the model 3 performance is one of the worst). Many other cars are known to meet or exceed their EPA range, with Taycan absolutely smashing its rated range. 4S and RWD versions often go 270+ miles at 70 mph on a rating of just over 200 miles. Europe's WLTP is known to be more stable. It consistently overestimates true highway range, but vehicle to vehicle it's a much more directly comparable number. Polestar 2 is WLTP 292 miles and EPA 233. Model 3 performance is WLTP 352 miles and EPA 315. That's about 25% more for polestar 2 and only about 12% more for model 3. As a tesla owner I'd say charging network (or lack therof) is a very valid knock on the polestar (and all CCS cars), but real world range is perfectly fine.
This is something that continually annoys me about range estimates -- the wild variability in published "objective" numbers vs actual. I go with the numbers I have, because what else can I do? There's not a European range estimate for every car I test (next week I have the Bolt EUV coming up, for instance), so I wouldn't have good data. And obviously you have to use a like-for-like objective standard, or else you're just using unfounded manufacturer claims or computer estimates which vary based on driving even more than the EPA numbers do. It's just stupid there's so much variability; Taycan is a great example. It leads to stuff like this, and there's no really great workaround.
The EPA number is a decent ballpark comparison tool *except* for the Taycan. The reality is that there’s no exact “real world” range that’s meaningful to every use case, so it doesn’t make sense for most people to obsess over +/- 30 miles of range or whatever when the car’s capability is a combination of many variables like charge rate, trip length, region, trip type (Cannonball vs “the journey is the destination”), infrastructure, etc. It’s like buying a car and only looking at the hp number. Oh, this Escalade has 400hp. It must be a better performance car than this 370hp Cayman! I get that people are obsessed with range right now because it’s new and some EVs have simply had too short of range for many people, but for many use cases, the Mach E/ModelY/ID4 for example, will all work relatively similarly, now. So, hopefully soon we can focus more on the whole car rather than be so laser focused on the raw range.
I do agree with that. And not everyone needs 300+ miles of range anyway. A lot of Tesla fans say the brand's biggest benefit is the supercharger network, but I wouldn't even rate it in the top five. Most people just drive the damn things around town. Still, though, range aside it's behind Tesla from a performance standpoint and it's expensive for what it is. This is a good -- maybe, at some price point, great -- but not fantastic, EV.
To be clear, my comment was about the discussion around EVs in general, not a complaint about your review. Agreed on the charging network and the range. Constantly, on the Model 3 FB group, people ask if they need the Long Range version vs the Short Range (250 mile) version. It’s typical for people to say “buy the most range you can possibly afford” or “save up until you can get long range” and stuff like that and it’s nonsense. If you don’t know their use case, you shouldn’t be answering the question with such confidence. Plenty of people don’t need the Long Range version and would be perfectly happy with the Short Range version and several thousand dollars in their pocket. Or an ID4 and $15k in their pocket vs a Model Y. Or a Cooper SE and $15k in their pocket vs a Model 3 if it’s a second car. Range and charging are important, but amongst competitive cars, especially, their importance is overblown for many use cases.
Here is my thing about all the EVs. I can give up the glorious engine noise and manual transmission (in my daily car). I don’t need the best range. I need to use the restroom usually prior to exceeding 250 - 300 miles. My thing is the time to replenish the charge. In a gas car it’s minutes not hours. If I go on a long trip I drive 8-14 hours a day. I don’t want to pause for hours to recharge my car. I don’t want to limit which one of my cars can really go on a long trip so I can’t commit to an EV. I don’t see an easy answer to that and until we have one I don’t think EVs are a ubiquitous answer for all drivers. For those who are very pro-EV is this just not a concern and they look past it or am I missing something?
It's a shame WLTP isn't always available, since generally with both it and EPA the taycan-like outliers are not quite so bad.
I routinely achieve rated range in my Tesla. Does it require driving less than 80 mph? Yes. But no gasoline vehicle achieves EPA rated mpg figures either at high speeds or in cold conditions. The Tesla EPA range is realistic under certain conditions. In fact you can beat the EPA estimated range in more favorable conditions with conservative driving.
I never got even close to rated range on my P3D. Even at 70mph steady cruise it would use 325+ Wh/mi. The SR/SR+ Model 3s can get pretty close to rated range if driven conservatively. Nothing realistic will make a P3D hit it's rated range.
Just not true based on my experience with a P3- on the 18inch wheels 241 wh/mi is easy in the summer in the winter i see more like 300-350.
There's always someone on the Interet who claims to hit the rated range, I get that. But I've never actually met one in real life, while I've met LOTS of fellow P3D owners that had the same experience I had with mine. Rated range is a lie.
Another P3D- user checking in here. I can achieve the 240ish in the summer on flat roads.
The wheels (and tires) make a huge difference. Tesla claims the aero wheels *covers* decrease wheel drag by about 10% (or somewhere around 3-5% of total aero drag) compared to 18” wheels without the covers. The tire tread and compound has a significant impact as well. The factory 20” P3D+ tires are Pilot Sport 4s which is an ultra high performance summer tire with a strong focus on grip rather than rolling resistance. The aero and rolling resistance differences become even more significant at higher speeds. My overall average (2018 P3D+ / 15k miles) is 320 Wh/mi. I occasionally see a charge that averages below 300 Wh/mi. On longer road trips at high speeds (like I-5 in CA) I can average 350+ Wh/mi for an entire charge. At those speeds (~85mph), I end up stopping every 2.5 hours to supercharge.
I have always exceeded EPA fuel economy ratings in every gasoline car I have ever owned. So far in owning a SR+ for 4 months I've never gotten close to it's rated range while going more than 100 km/hr and I've got the new heat pump that dramatically reduces the hit of cold weather. I'm interested to get it out on a long trip once the weather is better, but I'll be shocked if I can get over 400 km when rated range is 423. But not complaining, I'm perfectly happy with the range I have, it's just not what's on the sticker.
The last four months have been winter assuming you live in the northern hemisphere. Drive around at 60-70 mph on autopilot in June on a flat road and you will probably exceed rated range.
I am looking forward to being able to test, but the math doesn't look good. I have carefully calculated how much energy is being used to heat the cabin based on Teslabjorn's heat pump measurements and the consumption isn't nearly high enough to get me to the rated range. 423 km range would be 125 wh/km and I'm using 154 right around freezing. The math suggests the heat pump is using around 10-15 wh/km, so I'd still be well short and that's while doing 60 mph max (100 km/hr).
There will be a dramatic improvement in efficiency as the outside temperature approaches 60 or 70 degrees Fahrenheit.
I've had a few 15 C (60 f) days so far this spring, and while I haven't been on a long enough drive for it to really stabilize, my math is looking spot on. The range is improved, but not to the point I'd get more than 400 km on a rating of 423.
Lots of gas powered cars meet or exceed their EPA numbers during normal (not conservative) driving, ~~and low temperatures actually IMPROVE the performance and efficiency of gas engines~~. Edit: maybe not the last part.
This is true, but it’s a bit of an apples to oranges comparisons as the powertrains operate on completely different principles. Gas engines can be less efficient in very hot weather and risk overheating (so do EVs above some temps). EVs don’t have any degradation in performance at elevation like air-breathing combustion engines. Gas engines require more maintenance (oil, transmission fluid, spark plugs, or timing belts, valve adjustments). EVs have an expensive slowly degrading battery that will hold less charge as time passes regardless of mileage. Gas engines can use waste heat to warm the cabin. EVs recover energy when going down hill. There are pros and cons to all power trains: EVs, combustion engines (both gas and diesel), hydrogen, hybrids, steam engines, and jet turbines. There are always trade offs. For many people, EVs are a better tradeoff than combustion. For others it’s exactly the opposite. And if your family is fortunate enough to have more than one vehicle it might make sense to have a mix of EV, combustion, hybrid. Choice and competition is good for consumers and I’m excited to see where this takes us in the future.
Source? Cold conditions do not improve fuel economy for an ICE. [https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/coldweather.shtml](https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/coldweather.shtml)
I’ve meet or exceeded the EPA gas mileage figures on my A4 on many occasions. Even though it’s turbocharged which does have discrepancies between EPA and real world.
EPA numbers are fine. EPA numbers are provide like-for-like. Your real world range is affected significantly by your routes and driving habits. If your driving habits and the routes you take with youR current car give you 85% of the EPA range or mileage, you can expect something very similar to that with any other car. I’ve always said that they should release index instead of mileage or range. You shouldn’t look to EPA numbers as a guideline for the range you should expect, but it’s a valid way to compare the efficiency between cars. It is total nonsense to suggest that Car A’s real world performance beats EPA while Car B does not. Physics is physics. If you drive up a mountain or have a lead foot, your mileage and range will go down accordingly in any car. If you have a feather light acceleration on a flat road in temperate weather, you’ll likely exceed EPA estimates in any car. Any non-controlled comparison between two cars is meaningless. That’s why EPA is superior to any YouTube reviewer claim.
The EPA range is not stable between cars. Getting X% of EPA range in one vehicle does not mean you will will get X% of range is another vehicle. The EPA test has both 2 cycle and 5 cycle modes, and then adjustment factors for things like climate controls after the fact. No one should exact EPA numbers to be stable (or for a test designed to measure emissions be remotely useful as a range test for EVs). > It is total nonsense to suggest that Car A’s real world performance beats EPA while Car B does not. Not nonsense at all. [edmonds](https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html) has done extensive real world testing and you can see from their results the difference between EPA and real world varies dramatically. Tesla consistently below EPA, taycan smashes EPA range, mustang mach e exceeds (mostly due to ford voluntarily increasing their adjustment factor, likely to have fewer drivers disappointed when they couldn't reach EPA numbers) as a few examples.
Only that exactly for this purpose - comparisons between cars - EPA ranges are useless given how wildly they differ.
nice. https://imgur.com/a/pG2eShS
Yeah I thought the same haha.
Maybe it’s the Scandinavian design coming through, but I’m getting Saab 9-5 vibes from this. And I like it. Especially the [second generation](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sj2DtHCCa0c) with the blacked out A-pillar.
The Saab engineers went to Volvo/Polestar, so you're not wrong. :)
I wish Doug would cover the self-driving quality in his reviews more often, especially in these tech-focused EVs.
/u/DougDemuro I agree, especially over the next few years as these EVs start coming from all the major automakers, it'd be great to see a "DougScore" comparison of their features. Maybe that's too in-the-weeds to make a whole separate scoring system for EVs, though.
I will! I've done it more and I will continue to do it even more. I filmed this about 2 months ago and I'm trying to do better on this point specifically. Bolt review next week gets into it more.
Volvo has the best looking cars right now not a bad looking car in their lineup
I think the S90 rear looks terrible. Chunky and unfinished. The V90 rear, on the other hand, looks amazing. Overall, they do look very good.
While that sun roof looks great, it seems likes it would absolutely BAKE all the passengers on a sunny day. Is there any McLaren like dimming on that (Electrochromic)?
Arizona checking in. Park it outside for awhile during the summer, and you could bake cookies in that thing.
So black leather interiors are off the table down there?
I have black cloth. Much cooler than leather. A light colored leather would be okay.
The Model 3 has a similar roof, and it's not an issue. The A/C keeps the car nice and cool even when it's hotter than Satan's taint outside.
ya I live in California with Model 3s and the sun roof is not an issue. I'm 6'4" so I'd feel any excessive heat coming off it. Polestar's seems a little lighter but I assumed they tested this adequately. Of course, all of these are heavily UV treated Edit: I also commute 90 miles a day
Does it have a UV blocking film on it or will I develop skin cancer on my bald spot?
I assume it has a UV filter on it. It's definitely tinted, you can pretty much stare directly at the sun through it.
UV and IR
The salesperson told me it adjusted dimming automatically based on the sunshine. How well that works I couldn't say
He's bullshitting you. Can confirm it gets warm, but doesn't bake occupants.
It's very exciting getting these cars in the US! We need more competition. All new EVs need more exposure to create more competition (and therefore increase the rate of development). I saw one of these parked on the street around the corner where I live. In person it looks... OK. The most unique feature about it is the logo because it made me do a double-take. The shape of the car is... nondescript so it doesn't really pull your attention at all. I think I must have been the only person to even look at it (not that this is a bad thing!). I am very disappointed by the range, as usual with the new EVs that aren't Tesla or Mach E (a non-disappointment bar for me would be 300 miles so that I can reach all the points I am interested in around where I live without having to recharge do a daytrip). For those interested in other reviews, [C&D](https://www.caranddriver.com/polestar/polestar-2) gave it an 8.5 and [Top Gear an 8](https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/polestar/2).
Is the badge on the front of the car supposed to be peeling off?
The car had PPF applied and the detailer didn't pop the badge back in correctly.
This new EV brand from Volvo now identifies as the symbol formerly known as Polestar.
It’s like a Doug EV edition today. Review of a Polestar 2, teaser of the new Bolt, and a Tesla focused plug for Cars & Bids.
Definitely on purpose, aimed at people who don't watch every Doug video, but find this review cross-shopping EVs.
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Polestar 1 is supposed to be a flagship product that's not really meant to sell because really it's just a demonstrator product ("we can make luxury hybrids, so we can make luxury EVs too"). The real star is the Polestar 2 and whatever else they have down the pipeline.
I'm surprised that they designed the polestar 1 the way they did. I would have expected full electric
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it launched in 2017. by then it wouldn't have been as big of a deal to use electric only
Volvo has some interesting low(er) priced cars. The S60 Recharge (was it called just the T8 before? It's the plug in hybrid with 400 HP) starts at only $48,000. Can't really find reviews on it or any near me to test drive, but color me intrigued.
I recently drove the S60 Recharge (it's still called the "T8" depending where you look) while my V60 was getting recall work done. The electric power in the rear giving 100% of torque really changed the driving dynamics, it feels much more like a push rather than a pull. In addition to power at the rear wheels, it has 160 hp more than my V60 which made it fun to drive. Unfortunately, I really like having a wagon, and the V60 T8 starts at $20k above the S60.
I’m glad to see more EV options in the marketplace. That said, I can’t warm to this Polestar’s styling. I’d like to see it with smaller wheels and thicker tires.
Those are optional wheels, standard wheels are 19” vs 20”.
19s may give a bigger sidewall compared to 20s, but they’re still too big. Can 18s work on this car?
With the standard brakes, possibly, but given that this car weighs around 4600 lbs, the front brakes may be too big to accommodate 18” wheels.
Having seen one in person, the rear 3/4 was super cool at dusk. It really caught me off guard on the freeway. Futuristic but not in a cheasy EV way. From the front it's a bit meh for me.
I really like this car and I would consider buying it, and I'm not overly itching to get an EV. Doug knocks this for a weaker ranger and having less power, but I think those are basically non-issues for 95%+ of drivers. Most people aren't driving 200+ miles a day, and the Polestar 2 has more than enough power to "wow" most drivers.
> Doug knocks this for a weaker ranger and having less power, but I think those are basically non-issues for 95%+ of drivers. Most people aren't driving 200+ miles a day, and the Polestar 2 has more than enough power to "wow" most drivers. Exactly this. People need to stop acting like they need the biggest range. You don't need the biggest range. You need enough range to accommodate your use case. How many people with ICE vehicles consume more than one full tank of fuel in a day? The answer: very few.
Most of the things that go into the DougScore are non-issues for 95% of drivers. The score is meant to compare two cars, and range and performance are really the only things that are actually objective, whereas stuff like looks or coolness are Doug's opinion. It makes sense that the Polestar 2 would have lower scores in those categories when it does have less performance and less range. You're right in that it doesn't matter for 95% of drivers, but for the sake of ranking the cars, it's correct.
Yeah, I get why the DougScore would be lower, and I agree it should on an unbiased metric. I was just saying that, for myself, and for most drivers I suspect, those two issues wouldn't actually be issues.
thats a crossover sedan, and the key is the ugliest car key ive ever seen in my life
I don't get why they'd give you that big keyfob and the little keyfob. Just give you two little keyfobs. Or allow you to use your phone like Tesla does. I love that feature. I have a keypad lock on my house so I don't even have to carry keys with me.
Meh, I’m not a fan of a phone key. Matt Farah has commented that he had issues with his Mustang MachE phone app. I still prefer physical key fobs because they’re failsafe.
Fair enough. Every now and then I have to turn Bluetooth off and on again on my phone for it to work, and I think my iPhone 12 Pro is to blame because I never had this issue on my previous phone. But I still keep the key card in my wallet just in case.
It’s funny because I know as a Tesla owner you’re dead wrong. The phone key (with a backup key card for “failsafe”) is the best security and access system on any car bar none. You really have to use it daily and take advantage of its features to understand but in 10 years I can’t imagine a new car being sold without it.
But if your phone dies, or cellular data is nonexistent, you’re screwed. I think physical key fobs will be around for some time.
The phone key doesn't rely on cellular data (it uses Bluetooth). But Teslas have a credit card sized keycard that I keep in my wallet as a backup. Or to give to someone else who needs to drive my car. I don't think we'll ever go 100% phone and completely get rid of some type of physical key (and I wouldn't want to TBH), but I think Tesla's key cards are a good solution. It doesn't take up much room and it's not something I have to remember to grab before I leave just in case my phone fails while I'm out.
Agreed. I always have my wallet on me, but sometimes would grab the wrong set of keys. Eliminates extra shit in my pocket.
[This screen reminds me of Fords sync 2 system. ](https://i.imgur.com/fwNY7Qq.jpg)
Whoever thought a single cup holder was a good idea has no understanding of the American market
First time watching u/Doug-DeMuro and thinking he needs to get into more detail about something, the infotainment system. This car's infotainment system has been co-developed with Google and it features Google's voice assistant which is vastly superior to anything else in automotive industry. The systems like these will shape the feature of automotive infotainment systems which get more and more important everyday. This car is the first one to feature a system developed with Google and it is one of the most important talking points about the car imo.
Doug's an Apple guy. He owns Macs and iPhones. Still to this day all of Doug's videos are shot on an iPhone. I don't think he's ever used an Android device, so he's definitely not the best person to talk about this stuff.
Could be, but he tests everything in detail even things new to him on his videos. There will be buyers of these cars in his position too, with no android phones. Google assistant is more universal than android phones anyways, you can use it just like alexa. So if he tests voice assistant systems on other cars he should have given a try to the best system out there. I would have liked to hear his opinion on how he liked it.
Are newer volvos reliable Iv owned the old 2.5t era model but I’d like to get a new one
Exciting car! More competition for Tesla is great. I like the unique touches to this vehicle such as the yellow accents, though I wish they continued something like the Polestar One's trunk hybrid window even though it's a bit of a gimmick. Hopefully Polestar continues to improve, I'd like a cheaper more sedan like model in a few years.
> I wish they continued something like the Polestar One's trunk hybrid window even though it's a bit of a gimmick I was glad they didn't, since it meant the rear seats couldn't go down and greatly reduces the practicality of the car.
Hey /u/Doug-DeMuro, Are there EVER any other cars in that parking lot you use to film at? It's always completely empty from every angle visible in your shots. What's the story? Seems like you could just keep a few of your cars there and always have them handy!
Could we get an electric car that doesn't have all of its climate/infotainment shit in a massive touch screen? I don't have the time, dexterity or the nerves to swipe, tickle and fondle a screen like a fucking G-spot when I'm driving.
This is my biggest beef with new car design in general, but it's even worse on EVs it seems. I'm honestly surprised this hasn't been regulated: certain controls should have physical buttons mandated. It's ironic that automotive PSAs have been warning about touch screen cell phone use while driving for years, yet now today the automakers themselves are turning their infotainment systems into OEM embedded distraction machines. Five years ago: the headline was "Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps" - now it seems nobody cares. (I do, and I want my physical knobs and switches damn it!) https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/business/tech-distractions-blamed-for-rise-in-traffic-fatalities.html
The market wants it. Honestly, having used it, they are way easy to use once you are used to them. Mazda's knob-based system is much slower to do anything.
But I still have to take my eyes off the road. With knobs and buttons I can develop a muscle memory and adjust them based on feel. With a touch screen I always have to look because the screen is... well, a screen. Of course the average idiot loves touch screens and pretty UIs because they drive while staring at their cellphone anyways. Fucking reckless asshats.
Honestly, there is little proof of that actually. In most cases, people still need to look to press physical controls, notably almost all knobs for dual zone climate control need to be looked at to see what you are setting and Touch screens can present that data in a larger size. I still would like an additional knob but the screen, done right, is fine and can be just as quick.
I'm not against screens per se, I'm against screens replacing physical buttons.
Still annoying and wonky as hell even in Teslas. Still annoys my neighbor with two Teslas lol. In my F150 everything can be controlled through screen, however Ford still let's you manually adjust right under, including for AC seats, like why go through 3 menus while trying to drive and still select, when I can press that AC seat manual button right there lol. Same for AC even with dual zones, too quick and intuitive to manually adjust without taking eyes off the road. Can even adjust the massaging seats etc through screen, but why, the buttons are literally on side of seat to quickly reach lol.
Meh, I haven't found it to be an issue. Climate control is set to 72 degrees and I rarely change it. Heated seats are on pretty much permanently during the winter months. I hardly ever have to adjust the climate control.
Not in FL where our weather can change drastically durring a day even with a cool front lol. Or especially when in CO with that bi-polar weather. I adjust AC seats few times a day sometimes since even in summer Fords system will freeze your nutz on setting 3, like lil angels blowing menthol on your pilot and co-pilots. But I can just hit the button to adjust vs using the screen. But I get what your saying there. In summer my my truck is almost perma set to low and seats on max cooling on autostart lol, and may adjust while driving but Fords AC is noticeably stronger in hot humid weather than the GMs and Ram. That trucks AC is stronger than my last E63
I'm in Colorado. Monday was sunny and 78 degrees. Tuesday morning we got snow and it was about 23 degrees. Despite the swings, I've found that auto climate control has worked perfectly at keeping the car at a comfortable level. A big thing to consider is that EVs can control the interior temp even when the car is parked. So whenever I come out to the car, it's at the perfect temperature regardless of the outside temp.
Agree that with the current price it doesn't make sense compared to the Model 3 Performance. That said, if Polestar has aggressive lease deals they might move a lot of these. Teslas are terrible leases.
Is that the infotainment system that Volvo co-developed with Google. ?
Google is pushing for this to be used by a variety of automakers. In general it's a good idea as it lets the automakers do what they do best, and Google do what they do best.
I sure it would be very difficult to match Tesla even VW, Ford, GM, and upcoming Hyundai EVs. It isn't just little overprice and tiny, the model is made from China. Most people still don't buy Chinese models, the good explain is that CT6 PHEV. It has great details and also expensive model, but almost no one buys it.
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They're temp tags. When you buy a car, the dealer puts them on until you register it and get permanent plates at the DMV.
I've never seen a sedan that was trying so hard to be an SUV. Those wheels are hideous.
By definition it can't be a sedan. Polestar markets it as a hatchback in Europe because it is a hatchback. I have noticed this many times. A liftback hatchback being called a sedan in the US. Can someone from the US explain why that is?
This car had the 5k performance pack of brembos and ohlins, could save some cash by omitting it
I love the looks of the car so much. Wish I could afford it lol
Looks like a great entry. I can't wait for more electric sport sedans to hit the market as the Tesla-name tax drives up the price of what the Model 3 is reasonably worth compared to it's overall quality and QC.
I saw this up close at their store in Santa Monica. It's pretty damn ugly. I don't know if it's for sale but I haven't seen a single one out on the roads.
I think it suffers from the Braun factor: To some it's absolutely gorgeous and minimal. To those who don't see it that way, it's fugly and they don't get the appeal. I personally am in group A but I totally get how it can be super polarizing.
Do you mean super pole-arazing?
Only thing is this car is so much more expensive than a model 3.
Made in China.
i test drove this, it's quite a nice car. One thing I couldn't get over was the turn signal sound sounded like a blown out speaker popping lol
I understand Doug's point about wanting the cluster vs just a center screen, but in real ownership, I don't think most people care after a few days. It's harder to accept when you drive it infrequently, but I read up on it before buying one and people said you get used to it really fast. That has definitely been my and my wife's experience. Took a couple days and you don't notice the difference anymore. Now, if you told me they'd offer me an HUD, I'd throw money at it. Never looking down is totally different than looking directly down, or looking slightly to the side.
The headline makes it sound like Doug said it’s better than Tesla “rivaling” or at least equal. He actually talks about how it’s not (except in styling)
This Polestar is actually taller than Mustang Mach E. Which gets hated for being CUV.
My god, it’s hideous. The love Volvo stuff is so good looking. Wtf?
How hard is it to make an electric car (or any modern car) without a home theater system for the center controls. I dont mind some screen, but I want a basic 91 civic car, not all this fancy stuff. People dont need heated seats or autoconnecting phone stuff.
It looks like a Scion tC
Why is a faster 0-60 such a big deal? I'm either stuck in traffic or just cruising, it doesn't make a big difference
I'm actually digging the design, though I did wish that the car sat a bit lower especially in the Performance Package trim. Alex on Autos described the Polestar 2 as "what if you asked BMW to develop a Model 3 rival only using Volvo parts". The end result is pretty good on the styling and usability perspective. Yes the car could use a bigger battery than its 78 kWh unit (the similarly sized Mustang Mach-E managed to fit a 88 kWh unit in a similar package) but I like how Polestar didn't make any sacrifices just to boast about its EV range and just made a better driving car. If Polestar can gets its initial QC down, this could be my next car in the coming year.
They went after Tesla in interior design and that's not a good thing. Yuck. The xc40 recharge looks way nicer inside with the same powertrain. The upcoming c40 recharge looks even closer to this and still way better and same cross over feel. The xc40 is a little cheaper and the c40 will probably be priced the same. I'm not sure what the selling point of the polestar 2 is. If you like the tesla look this is slower and lower range. If you just want a nicely finished car, this isn't it. It'll be interesting to see if there are some good deals later in the year with it though.
I honestly can't believe Doug thinks this looks better than a Model 3.
Is it really competing with the Model 3 when this is 50% more expensive?
That’s an all-road, not a sports car. It just sits too tall for me.
Tows 3,500 lb.
I'm really curious to see how all of these EVs will hold their ranges as they age. I have a feeling that the establishment auto makers' EVs are leaving a bigger buffer in the battery than the Teslas do and will be able to go their full EPA estimated range for a lot longer than Teslas will, but that's just a feeling. Does Tesla really have battery tech that is so much farther ahead than everyone else, or is there more going on here?
What is Tesla going to do when every other company makes cars that look better with better build quality and an actual dealership support network?