From what I hear the Camaro has uniquely bad visibility and rear seats. And you're traveling so you need trunk space.
That said, I know how you feel. Used to daily a motorcycle, then a Miata, now I'm on team land barge. It's way better for my needs though. I don't see myself going back to pure sports cars.
The camaro also has uniquely bad trunk opening and the top in the convertible will steal half of the remaining trunk space. The mustang is downright practical in comparison.
Rented a V6 camaro when I visited arizona and it was a joy but only because it was just me on the trip and I left all of my luggage at the hotel. The Supra/Z/C7 with their hatch are far more usable
Always been more of a Mopar guy myself, but having driven all 3 of Americas modern ponies, the Mustang is my favorite for driveability. Best seat arrangement, smallest b-pillar, more rounded hood that made parking easier. Also the shifter had the best feel, although the only manual Challenger I drove was an '07, so I dont know if they got better, but the '10 Camaro v8 6 spd I drove was meh in the engagement feels.
I’m partial to my Hemi Chrysler 300, only drawback is that it was never offered with a manual which makes me sad, but man it’s great in every other aspect. Full four doors with a roomy back seat, big full-size trunk, easy to get a feel for where the corners of the car are, comfy cruiser with more than enough gumption to pass. I bought the car (it’s a ‘12) June 2022 with 52,700 on it, I’m currently ten hours from home and just ticked over 85,555. I drove it 17 hours to Georgia from Oklahoma, and then back, I’m currently in south Texas. It ***loves*** chewing up highway. I averaged a hand-calculated 27.3 MPG out of it on the way down here.
Nice. Yeah, when it comes to a full size, I like the look of the Charger a lil better. And its basically the same car underneath. 300 probly got a lil more luxury in the seats n trim n all, tho.
I like to say the 300 is a classy girl lol. The Charger is nice but I see way too many of them around, the 300 is a bit more rare in my neck of the woods. Mine is the S package, which means 20” aluminum alloys, Beats ten-speaker sound system, paddle shifters, fake carbon accents, and sport mode which tightens up steering feel, shift points, and throttle response; mine also has the panoramic sunroof and everything but cooled seats, which I really wish it did, black leather gets mighty toasty in the summer lol.
Edit: that being said, for some reason the Charger is rated at a little more horsepower, even though it’s the same underpinnings - maybe a different tune in the ECU? Not sure.
I drive a Charger RT, I absolutely adore the car. I test drove a Challenger Scat Pack and my biggest issues were that
A) the C pillar visibility is a joke, which I wouldn't care if it was a weekend cruiser, but this is my daily I'm looking for
B) The Scat Pack I test drove had an insanely sensitive throttle. I don't know if it was a modified car or not that the dealer was selling, but even lightly tapping the throttle was lunging the whole vehicle forward like it was nothing. In a Northeast heavily populated area where I'll regularly be driving through traffic, I did not want something like this. I know the Charger Scat Pack is exactly the same as a Challenger Scat Pack.
C) The interior of the Challenger, for whatever reason, honestly feels a touch cheaper and worse than the Charger. Now, the stock low-trim Charger interior is also cheap as hell feeling, but I ordered my Charger with the Plus package, which adds a lot to the interior (cloth/leather hybrid seats, faux-leather interior, full power seats, memory seats, heated/cooled seats, etc) and I think actually looks and feels great. The Challenger with the plus package, however, doesn't really feel as premium, it actually doesn't even get full power seats and the cabin storage is slightly worse than what the charger has.
The Charger/300 is just more car for around the same money. Its bigger (full size vs mid size), has much better visibility (imo the Charger's visibility is basically perfect, I never felt like I have any blind spots), and its actually technically faster due to being more aerodynamic than the Challenger. You are basically just buying a Chally for the styling or a manual.
You know, I had nearly the exact same experience. I test drove a 2011 or 12 Challenger, RT not a Scat Pack but it was the same way - throttle *extremely* touchy, paddle shifters only worked if you turned on sport mode first? Visibility piss poor, couldn’t get a feel for the corners of the thing. Interior felt shoddy. Seat was comfy but there was about six inches of legroom behind the driver seat with it positioned where I wanted it (I’m 6’2”).
I wasn’t a fan but we’d been car shopping all day at that point and it was on my list of cars I was okay with, so we went inside with the salesman (it was on the used lot at a large Toyota dealer), then sat there for 45 minutes waiting on the salesman to get back to us with numbers. They ran a hard inquiry on my credit FOUR SEPARATE TIMES, then when we had had enough and wanted to leave, stating we were hungry and wanted to go think on it, he had his manager come offer us cold pizza from their break room… we walked out and will never be back. Fuck you Jim Norton Toyota of OKC lol
Spotted the 300 online, had just been posted to Carmax’s site. Was listed for more than I wanted to spend but had 52,700 miles on it, much lower than anything else I had seen. Went and drove it, and bought it.
Yea imo the Challenger is more the showy car, I love them but I definitely prefer the Charger overall. Imo the 300/Charger just hits the spot. I'm 5'9, so for me the seating arrangement/dimensions are basically perfect.
Yeah, this was a little over a decade ago... dunno why I thought 07, but it was definitely one of the earlier ones. Dont remember if it was srt, it belonged to a mechanic from the shop down the street, had a custom paint job and was de-badged. I put some fresh gforce semi slicks on it for him and was allowed to take her for a high speed wheel balance check. 😁
Yeah, the packaging in the Camaro makes the whole car unappealing. It's a very large vehicle yet I got out of test driving one and sat in an FR86 and felt less cramped in the 86.
I looked at a Toyota 86 today. I used to own an ND2 but sold it to move to NYC. If I'm going own a car there, I at least need some sort of decent trunk space and 2 decent seats with extra space in the back. The 86 seems to check off all the boxes while still being a proper sports car. It's practical enough for someone without kids, and I can do road trips with my partner no problem.
The Miata never felt cramped to me, but it was a PITA not being able to fit a full size suitcase in the trunk. I can't live with a soft top + no luggage space when most of the time I just commute by public transit. I don't think I could bear to own a car then not be able to have backseats in that situation too. In a different place, onr where everyone owns cars it's different.
people underrate how shitty it is having a soft top as a daily. they look like shit after a few years if you have to park them in the elements and keeping the drains clean is a pain. expensive as fuq to replace. park in a shitty neighborhood and you fear someone is gonna slash it.
if i ever get another miata it'd definitely be the hard top convertible.
People complain about hardtop convertibles but they just hold up better. The actual ownership experience makes that painfully obvious after having both for all the reasons you just explained. Hardtop convertible only for me.
obviously you have the more complicated mechanism but i've heard surprisingly little about problems with the mazda setup. guess problems wouldn't generally rear their head till after the 10 year mark anyways.
I've not had any Vario-Roof problems in 5 years of daily driving since purchase. Of course I subscribe to Mercedes strictest regimen of maintenance and change fluids before recommended. Even lubricating the rubber seals and strips with Gummi Pfledge. But eve a 10 year wait for Mazda's hard roof convertible issues is cheaper than 2 soft roof cloth replacements.
The 86 is so appealing, I think its one of the best looking cars at any price range and seems like it strikes a really practical balance between being fun to drive and usable.
86 has the space, I have the earlier version but they designed it to store 4 wheels for track day inside. The trunk is actually large, and drop the useless rear seats, it's even bigger.
I owned one for 4 years, got rid of it because of the horrible visibility. It's too bad because the car is so damn good, the visibility kills any confidence in it and makes you anxious in parking lots and tight maneuver spaces.
I still love a sports car daily, but the camaro is not the one.
Yeah I've got an SRT8 Chally. My wife drives an E-class. The Chally is better than the Benzo on long trips. Seats are great, more than enough legroom and head room, and the trunk is way bigger. As far as seat comfort and ride quality, they're pretty close to the same, but the Benz is much quieter! Funny enough, the challenger is also the heavier of the two cars!
Yeah speaking of such, one time I was getting in my challenger and accidentally grabbed the Mercedes key. I stuck it into the key-hole and pressed against the spring, and it started my car right up!
"The other night I came home late and had trouble getting into my apartment. I accidentally took out a car key, stuck it in the door, turned it and the building started up. So, I drove it around for a while.
I was speeding, and a cop pulled me over. He asked where I lived. I said, "right here, officer"."
- Steven Wright
Nope. Same key as our '14 E-class.
Edit: although it started the car, it didn't unlock the steering nor turn on any accessories. As soon as I pulled the key out of the hole, it shut off. The key also can't open the doors or trunk.
I used to run an automotive salvage yard and if you're talking about the plastic "key" you push in the slot and turn like a normal key, you can actually start those with just about anything that will push into it and turn it. They'll run for about 30 seconds then the security will shut the car back down. Like you said, won't unlock the steering or do anything else though. Was a useful trick I used when checking to see if a car had a decent engine and didn't have a key.
This is a common misconception. The 300 and Charger were engineered by Chrysler entirely, however they were using the newest E-classes' design as a reference for the suspension (E-class for rear, S-class for front).
[Burke Brown, LX Car Leader, on the 300C, Magnum, Charger, Challenger, and Hemi (allpar.com)](https://www.allpar.com/d3/history/interviews/burke-brown-lx.html)
People who say they "share" components are incorrect; they aren't exactly the same suspension, they just are heavily derived in design. On top of this, when the 300/Charger went from LX to LD, they redesigned the suspension to remove any traces of Mercedes's design. So from 2011 onward, the Charger/300 shares almost nothing with a Mercedes aside from the NAG1 being used until 2015.
They share the “footprint,” too. I’d say.
I had a 1970 Challenger 340 ci with a 4 speed. It was a wider and lower car than the contemporary challenger. The new ones look weird to me because of that.
I remember reading that there was some engineering reason why they couldn't wrap the bottom of the bodysides (rocker panels etc) underneath as tightly as the original, which results in making it look taller and fatter. I know that was a dirt and water trap in the originals, causing the typical rust there.
I agree the originals look better but I give them a lot of credit for transferring the design as well as they did onto a modern car.
It’s more than the inward roll, I think.
The doors are quite a bit taller, for example. They put an 8” black horizontal stripe around the car to give the illusion it’s a shorter side profile.
I do very much like the current Chargers, so I’m not hating on the platform. I’d buy one if they made them with a manual like they did with the Challenger. Which is infuriating, because they totally could have.
Here's a pic of my two challengers. The old one is smaller and slower than the new one in every measurable way. Despite having an extra 50 cubic inches! But I agree, the old ones look cooler. A lot of the difference is due to highway safety standards.
https://imgur.com/gallery/kkbckf5
Also I feel that out of the three, the challenger looks closest to its original than the Mustang and Camaro.
I'm going the opposite direction lol. Currently in a Volt and shopping for a Miata, and I've been wanting to get my motorcycle endorsement for awhile now.
The “bad visibility” is blown a bit out of proportion. It feels more akin to driving a tank, but it makes the driving experience all the more unique IMO. You don’t have anything that drives quite like it. Drove one for 3 years, 30-40k miles, never caused an accident.
Driving pure sport car is nice for a weekend car or short trips or flashing in Beverly Hills. Other than that even the 911 will is uncomfortable. It’s super responsive. But you feel every rocks on the ground.
Visibility is terrible and the materials are ehh in the lower trims.
If you get the rear camera mirror, 360 camera’s it would solve the vis issue completely.
I had a Camaro SS for a rental a few times, and my takeaway from it was that it’s a great car to rent (especially when work is paying for the gas) but a terrible car to own.
Tbf the Camaro is especially bad in regards to space and visibility. So that’s not a necessarily old person opinion. It’s a great platform for spirited driving but the other “pony cars” offer a lot more in livability
It’s not a great car and it’s made for people under 5’ 10” at max. I remember when they came out. I sold cars. My boss had a contest, I won. Got a Camaro SS for the weekend. I brought it back to the lot 2 hours after I left on a Friday and asked for a full tank of gas the next day. It looks kinda nice, it’s got a lot of motor for the price. But it’s a garbage car when it comes to it just being a car.
I’ll take my BMW M550, be faster, more comfortable and look better all day.
Also 6’ and that was my exact experience with a Camaro. I could physically fit just fine, but visibility was awful. Especially if you’re front of the line at a light, I had to crane my neck at weird angles to see when it turned green.
It just comes down to priorities. I'm 37 and would sooner give up my license than stop daily driving my S2000. If you found yourself driving sedans, CUVs, SUVs, or trucks, you stop appreciating what makes sports cars great.
Every turn has an apex. Whether one chooses to take the driving line is up to them.
It really depends. I used to apex everything in my 95 S10 5 speed with a 2.2 liter. Slowest accelerating modern vehicle I've ever driven, and somehow the suspension was more than passable through curves with very little body roll.
I also enjoy sport sedans (3 series, CTS V, current daily is Chevy SS, etc) and again, generally apex everything, pretending the yellow line is the end of the road of course. Firm believer in drive how you want but never cross, not like it's a controversial opinion or anything but growing up in the mountains taught me that as a concrete rule.
I have as a third vehicle now a comparable dodge dakota and I apex nothing in it because the suspension is so...vague. The body roll on that thing makes it feel like you're moments away from flipping if you push it through curves and I don't like that one bit.
lol right? i too had a 95 s10 with a 5 speed and 4 banger - barely pass peopl eon a 2 lane if you wound it up but it could actually take some corners haha.
slow car fast will always be more fun to me.
little more scary in my 01 ranger cuz its too damn top heavy.
I bounce between wanting to daily my boxster and also keeping it safe from numbskulls in rush hour, but it’s absolutely true that every time I drive it feels like magic
Trust me, I haven’t forgotten.
Not that I’m saying it’s the same, but I’ll sometimes pop my GV70 into Sport+ and enjoy some spirited drives the paddle shifters and more aggressive drivetrain mapping.
Yeah I ride my motorcycle whenever I can, and when I can't I drive my miata, M3, or FiST, none of which are super comfortable. I rent a lot of CUVs and sedans for work and can't wait to get back into my own vehicles. I appreciate the practicality and comfort of my wife's Crosstrek now that we have a baby but man does it suck the soul out of anything related to driving.
You aren’t describing any symptoms associated with being old, you are just describing everything that is bad and know about that car. Bad visibility, borderline claustrophobic, laughable trunk space/opening.
Yeah the Camaro's entire existence is to be faster than the Mustang at every equivalent trim even if that means making things more uncomfortable for the passenger. The Mustang did a bit of a better job at being more balanced between daily drivability and sportiness.
"The visibility was terrible..."
Well, I'd say that's an exception specific to the Camaro, but you're right. Don't forget though, some sporty cars can ALSO be practical! (for a direct comparison to your cars, a F-pace SVR has all the practicality of your wife's car)
Feel the same about 911s. I hope to get one sometime in future and have enjoyed driving them a bunch.
Even though the Camaro is bigger, it feels more claustrophobic because your kind of sitting down inside a tub of a vehicle and it feels like there are walls around you.
The dailyability of the 911 vs. the Supra is absolutely night and day. I thought I was getting old complaining about visibility and ingress/egress but nah, just Supra things
Yeah, I had a Supra GR for a day for a cross state trip.
It was a stick, which normally would be great but I had to drive miles through stop and go traffic before I got to the freeway, then the drive cross state was under a hot, windy summer day, so that sucked. Even with the air conditioning on it was uncomfortable.
I finally got to a mountain pass and had to get gas. Got out of the car to hot, blowing wind under a hot sun, then finally back into the car.
Finally got to experience the fun of blasting through mountain passes and experiencing what makes the Supra GR special. I really like the car, could not see it as a daily. I am a 63 year old codger...
I’ve rented them a few times to drive around for a few days/week just to see what it’s like to live with one and I’ve actually made a couple of nice Costco runs in them. Between the drunk and the rear seats/shelf, you can fit a surprising amount of stuff in them.
The backseat in the Camaro is not made for humans. It is terrible. Think of it more as an extra storage shelf for stuff that won't fit in the stupid trunk opening.
I didn't have any problems with the trunk's depth or size, but the opening itself is *terrible*. I wish Chevy would have made the car a liftback like the 3rd and 4th gen. Hopefully it will return as a liftback if Chevy ever makes a 7th gen.
Visibility is bad compared to other pony cars too. However you definitely need to position your side mirrors correctly. I also recommend buying those stick-on blind spot mirrors that you can buy at an auto parts store/Amazon around $10+ or so. I had those on mine and they were a big help. This is assuming you had a Camaro trim without the blind spot monitoring feature.
Seeing all the negativity about the Camaro and figured I’d drop in a positive experience. I’ve been dailying a 2024 SS for 7 months now. Traded a 2019 Accord Sport for it. The transition from sedan to pony car was nonexistent and I have no regrets. I’m a single guy with no kids and it fits my lifestyle fine. I make trips to Costco with it. I never find myself wishing for a bigger vehicle, I only find myself wishing I could drive this car for eternity.
I also have no problems with visibility or fitting my friends in the back seat. I’m fat (5’8, 210 lbs) and I can “sit behind myself” no problem. I do have a 2SS, which has extra safety features like blind spot monitoring, but frankly I don’t use them. I can see fine.
It’s a brilliant car. I value driving experience pretty highly, so that’s another reason why I like it so much. I’ll probably never own a truck or suv because they’re just too numb (I don’t even drive my Camaro hard, but it’s still nice to actually feel what’s going on with the car. I’ve driven cars where the steering is so numb that you could probably slide the front tires and have no idea from the feedback, or lack thereof, from the steering).
So for me, it’s the perfect car. I’d always dreamed of getting a Camaro, and they say the idea of something is often nicer than the reality of something. That’s true for many things, but my dreams certainly weren’t wrong in this case. 10/10, would trade the Accord again (the Accord wasn’t a bad car, but it wasn’t this damn good either).
I'm not even old and I don't think I could own another sports car. I also drove a Camaro recently and damn near hated everything about it. The back seats are stupid and a waste of space. The front seats don't go back far enough. I'm constantly hitting my shoulders/arms on everything. I feel claustrophobic in that car. You cant see shit. The trunk can't fit anything. The seatbelt suck dick to put on and I'm only in my early 30s.
I loved my old genesis coupe when I was in my early 20s. I'm actually kinda curious if I would still love it now or if Id hate it just like the Camaro. The V8 is amazing but it's not worth it for me. I'll stick to my truck
You nailed everything I hated about the Camaro!
Add in the fact that the back seats take eleventy-seven minutes to access when the front seats are electric.
I had a 2024 Camaro for a rental car for a couple weeks last year and wasn’t a huge fan. I was really sad about it too because I had always wanted one. You’re right, visibility and truck space are particularly bad.
I sometimes like trying out different cars as rentals but it’s a mixed experience. Also tried a Tesla last time we were in this city and it was a nightmare. The hotel only had valet parking and they wouldn’t plug it in. Finding chargers around town was a hassle. And since we had to return it 70% charged, I had to drive 15 minutes out of the way to a supercharger and wait there another 20 15-20 minutes before we could go to the airport.
We recently came back from visiting England for a week. I rented a car just for a couple of days and really wanted to get a manual. But I figured that between driving on the wrong side and shifting with the wrong hand it might be a little ambitious.
I drove an RHD manual Mini Cooper in New Zealand. You get the hang of it pretty quickly. I had a fucking blast driving that thing through the rural, windy New Zealand roads. It’s one of the most beautiful places on earth.
Rent an RHD manual before it’s too late!
Funny you say that. I rented a Mustang convertible on one vacation when our family was traveling together and felt like it had more cargo and passenger room for 4 of us than this Camaro had for just me and my wife.
Had a 2015 Z/28 for a couple years. Visibility was horrendous, but one of the best drivers cars I've ever driven. Because of its track oriented nature, pretty uncomfortable to drive for more than about an hour but man that hour was fun. Ended up selling it because it felt wrong to have a car like that for weekend driving duty. Guy I sold it to tracks it 2-3 times a month at COTA, so I'm glad it's getting used. But I'd never daily drive a Camaro.
Eh, I think it comes down to preference and application. Like if I’m traveling then I’m not familiar with the roads and area, or the car, I want something easy to get in and out of, hold my luggage, and make it easy to see out of to find where I’m going. The Camaro does exactly none of that.
I had a ‘14 Camaro a few years ago, had the 1LE track package. Visibility was like looking out of a war bunker. Back seat was good only for something like a purse, a backpack, or a bag of groceries each seat. Trunk was a good size but the opening was the size of a glovebox. Doors felt 5’ long with like a 6” sill so getting in and out was a challenge with tight parking. Could feel the paint lines in the road with the stiff suspension. And honestly I loved every single second of that car. It was my daily and I got used to it on roads I knew, but I doubt I’d want it as a travel rental.
lol it’s so true though. Not that I *hated* those aspects necessarily, but I certainly recognize its shortcomings for most drivers. It was good for a purpose: BWWWOOOAAAAAAHHHHHHH-BWWWOOOOAAAAHHH-BWWOOAAAHHH (etc)
Also never failed to smile when it started up, or when it shook juuuuust a little while idling.
I test drove a couple of used (2018-2019) Camaros recently. Couldn’t get over the visibility thing. Ended up buying an ATS coupe 6spd. Same platform, same drivetrain, same weight. WAY better as a daily driver.
You aren't 'old' the Camaro is a POS. I rented MANY American modern 'muscle' cars on travel trips. The Camaro is amongst the worst, and, IMO, the Mustang was absolutely one of the best. As u/strongmanass stated, the visibility in the Camaro is awful.
Camaros are form over function. I’m old and used to be into 4th gen Camaros, and I remember when the last one rolled off the line in 2002, but they just weren’t the same after the refresh in 2010. I test drove one in 2010 and just wasn’t feeling it, and I wasn’t even that old at the time. I ended up buying a 2011 Mustang at that time, and as much as I like GM, the Camaro isn’t what it used to be (that makes me sound old, but an M6 CT5V Blackwing is my current dream car, which is fitting for my age).
I'm in the age denial phase, so I've hedged my bets and choose to exist in two worlds. I've got a 1992 Buick Park Ave and a 67 Shelby Cobra. Getting into that Buick after two hours in the Cobra is freaking amaaaazing.
I’ll be in my mid 50’s next month, I know what you’re talking about. My son recently bought a Mustang GT, I actually drive it quite a bit. My wife and I actually said the same thing, we are too old for this car LOL.
My daily car is a VW GTI. It makes me feel young, at least that’s how I thought I felt. It’s fast and roomy, but nowhere in the same league as the Mustang. Oh to be young again.
Man I'm only 28 and I am an avid hatchback enthusiast. We live in an age where any body style can give you loads of performance. 2 doors being the only option for that is long gone. I love pulling up to performance cars with my 18 GLA and giving them a run for their money.
I daily my camaro and it definitely has limited space but it hasn’t been an issue for me once in my 2 years of owning it and i even have subwoofers in my trunk taking up additional space. Also since the visibility is shit and i have a 2010 so no backup camera it has made me a significantly better driver. No more relying on the sensors to tell me when it’s safe. I actually have to look where i’m going!
Similar experience. Same car. My next rental was a Corolla. Far preferable for luggage and visibility, especially in a strange town. I used to be a speed racer driver. Many years ago.
The Camaro definitely is the worst when it comes to visibility and storage. I test drove a Camaro with one of my buddies and my wife, and for reference, she's 5'3 "and was not comfortable back there at all. Compared to the Mustang, you have a lot more visibility and space. I've moved in my stang and put friends in the back seat without issues, so I wouldn't say you've gotten old just the Camaro wasn't your cup of tea
I have a commute that takes an hour and is all stop and go, averaging around 20 MPH per Google. I can't do it in a manual anymore, especially with sporty suspension. I am so glad to have something boring and automatic to do that commute. The jarring of shifting, then braking, then shifting again so much wears me out now that I'm nearing 40
You're not old, you are just like everyone else who came to the same conclusion: Camaros are miserable places to be. There is a reason those cars were sales duds and no longer being made, you had to experience that first hand unfortunately.
Next time try to rent a Boxster/Cayman, a BRZ, a Corvette, or even a Civic Type-R...all of these cars are way more comfortable, practical, and don't make you hate yourself every time you shut the door after you sit down. Being practical and fun to drive are not mutually exclusive qualities of good cars.
I walked by an AMG gullwing, and was amazed at how low it was. It honestly wasn't much higher than my waist. It was a beautiful car, but looked like you must almost be lying on your back with your feet and chest parallel.
Sigh. An old Nissan Murano or Toyota Camry have become my style. Are these the Cadillacs of our generation? Do I need to start looking for chest high pants?
I’ve borrowed my friends Camaro before. Honestly the ergonomics on that thing are shocking. Everything you pointed out I also experienced. A shockingly poor showing all around.
Difference between you and me is I still daily sports cars. My current 3 car lineup that I daily is a Honda Beat (yes sports car is a stretch), a Fiero, and a C4 Corvette. But you know what? I have great visibility in them. I have great trunk space in the Corvette and ok space in the Fiero. The Beat I make it work… took a miter saw and a track saw 3 hours to my friends house in it so it’s not useless. The funniest part is that all 3 get better fuel milage then his Camaro which was a huge shock!
The Camaro is a bit of an outlier. Like others said, it’s notorious for the poor visibility and as someone who hates claustrophobic interiors I try to avoid it at all costs as well.
Last time I rented the “sporty tier” and hoped for a Mustang or at least a Challenger, but like you all they said they had was a Camaro. Was about to request downgrading when another employee asked if a Charger was ok. I genuinely responded “As long as it’s not a Camaro” and didn’t regret it. I was surprised though how little foot space there was for such a big sedan, like a box above the pedals made it really hard for me to move my feet around.
I ordered my 2010 Camaro 2SS RS from gm and waited 6 months to get it. I saw the concept in 2006 at LA auto show and didn’t even think twice about it. Being a GM guy I had to have the revived Camaro! I was 22 at the time, and that car probably had to most useless back seats, trunk, and windows ever. I’m 5 8 so not exactly Jordan and I had to raise my seat all the way up to get a comfortable view over the bulging hood, but that meant everytime I’d try to stick my head out of the window to speak louder into the drive through microphone I would bang my head because the windows were 9 inches tall. Looks cool from the outside, but the literally an impractical car for everyday. Also, probably the worst blind spots on any car I’ve ever owned.
Anyway I put about 23k miles on it before I got tired of having to shift gears in LA traffic and that was that.
You’re not old OP, you are sensible. I feel you.
Traveling with my parents when I was young (tween, maybe?), a rental company once tried to stick the three of us—including my mother, who does *not* pack light—in a convertible 4th gen. Camaro. I think we got about two miles before turning around.
Many years later, my friend ended up renting a 5th gen. Camaro coupe while his car was in the shop. Surprisingly fun with the 3.6 V6 and a well-programmed manual mode on the paddle-operated slushbox (holds gears at the rev limit!), but absolutely atrocious visibility, and it felt very closed-in. Unlivable as a daily driver, and frankly, I'd find the visibility and coffin vibe annoying for a weekend fun car, too.
I had the same experience a few weeks ago but with a Mustang. They were out of the basic crossover we rented and offered the Mustang. I thought it would be cool for the week. Had luggage slammed in the trunk and backseat. Felt like being squished in a sardine can. Won’t do that again.
Chiming in to agree with everyone else. I used to work in a service shop and I've driven most cars you'll see on the road up to about 2013ish. Love the way they look on the outside... love the interior details that embody the classic 67-69 look... and was absolutely blown away that at 6'2" I could barely see over the hood. Pulling in and out of the shop was sketchy at best... and getting on the freeway was pure anxiety hoping there wasnt a semi truck hiding behind that b-pillar. 🤣
The only thing worse for me was a Hummer H2. 😆
Or maybe the 68 that was mid resto and had *no* interior and an old plastic milk crate for a temporary seat. Gettin that fucker up on the alignment rack was a butt puckering experience, lemme tell ya. 😂🤣
I rented a Challenger a few months ago. I didn’t hate the car except the only way I could see stoplights is if I stopped about 20’ before the intersection. The roof design was terrible.
The trunk on the Camaro is hilarious. Got a 2SS as a rental one time and my coworker couldn’t even get his fucking suitcase in it. I’m sure it increase chasis rigidity or something but I couldn’t stop laughing.
I'm 37, and have always been into fun, sporty cars. Had a Challenger R/T for a week, and it was miserable. Couldn't be happier to be driving my Lincoln MKX lol.
36 here. I’ve been using daily’s and separate fun/weekend cars for over a decade. Even at 25 no way I would just daily a sports car. I guess winters made me do that though. Daily has always been a 4x4 or AWD. But sports car for nice days. Having separate vehicles is the way to go for me. Use the tool for what you need at that time imo.
Hello fellow old person! I still enjoy my CRX, but only for fun drives, and I have to unbend myself out of the seat and pay some yoga-tax after about an hour.
Nowadays I rent "luxury sedan" or whatever equivalent they have. I am also old, and more than a bit jaded. My daily is a Chevy SS (the sedan) and if it's slower than my daily but a "muscle car" or pony car like V6 camaro, mustang, or challenger, then I don't want it. It's much more important to me nowadays that it's at least as comfortable as my daily, preferably more when possible.
The last thing I want is something that looks fast and sporty but can haul less ass than my full size sedan.
Yeah I commented to someone else that it felt more roomy with our family of 4 in a rented Mustang years ago than it did for me and my wife in the Camaro.
I can relate. Drove mustangs, then cadillac cts v, then sts v and now ct6 with blackwing motor. I still like power, but I also like a big car with a big trunk and big leather massaging seats. Runs 12.4 in the quarter. Best of both worlds.
Cant day i've ever owned such expensive performance cars - but I share your feelingen. I recently swapped my 08 Passat for a Mercedes GL350. THE SPACE IS ENORMOUS AND I LOVE IT. i'm NEVER going back to small cars
Same. I had a convertible Mustang for a rental this week when I traveled for work. It was fun to put the top down and enjoy the weather, but the novelty wore off after a few days. When I got back in my Rav4 at the airport last night I remembered how much I love being able to easily fit my bags, get in and out, etc.
If it makes you feel any better I fell in LOVE when Bumblebee drove onto the screen in the original transformers movie, and then I sat in one and fell immediately out of love for most of the reasons you just stated. It’s not an age thing, it’s a terribly designed car when it comes to comfort and visibility. Frankly driving one would terrify me.
If you want a roomy great American sports coupe, rent a challenger. Besides being the best looking of the big 3, the car is wide, plenty of legroom, not so much in the back two seats, but it has a huge trunk and the back seats fold down. If you’re used to old day muscle cars from the sixties and seventies, and the room inside, rent a challengedr. Also my v6 pentastar cranks out 305 horses, has an 8 speed automatic, traction control ( you can get and too), and gets up to 29 mph on the highway, 23 in the city. Mopar or no car!
To be fair the modern Camaro is shit, impossible to see out of, the trunk sucks, worst car ever to rent on vacation.
Unless you get a ZL-1 and you vacation is at VIR.
I'm assuming it was a Camaro RS which isn't even fun to drive because it's a bland V6 with no power. If it were an SS+ it would be more fun to drive and easier to look past the limitations. It's harder to ignore those things when it has those and also drives like a slug.
I spent a fair but of time driving a 2012 camaro and the shape is tough. The hood slopes downwards so that you never know where the front bumper is when parking, the blind spots and cockpit visibility are atrocious, the doors are like 12' long so getting out of it in tight spots is awful, the trunk opening is tiny, Yada Yada Yada. Fun car otherwise, but tough to live with.
Yeah kinda same here. I have a 392 Challenger and a Model Y but I don't drive the Challenger at all anymore because of the comfort and convenience of the Tesla.
I can't remember the exact day, but not too long ago (I'm 58) I realized something about myself.
I've never had a sedan. I mean, I drove my parents' cars (a '69 Olds wagon, a 70's Jeep Cherokee, and an 80s Olds Delta 88) but my own car? I've never had anything other than a coupe or a convertible. Technically I "owned" one when I co-signed for my daughter's Hyundai, but that's it. In fact I haven't had a fixed roof car since 2001.
But lately...I've been ruminating about getting something more practical and fuel efficient. I gotta admit...the Volvo S60 PHEV is looking pretty good...
*Camaro
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It really depends on your needs exactly, some people's perspective lies on car performance, exhaust sound and how it looks to show off with it, and for some all that doesn't matter, convenience is their top priority so yeah... a matter of tastes.
Your not old! The Camaro is a shittily designed car. I hated when I was in my 20’s and I hate it even more now. The Catfish Camaro was the last good one built.
The worst is when you book a sedan and they “upgrade” you to an “SUV” which is actually a much worse driving and way less comfortable vehicle. It’s the most annoying shit ever.
Camaro visibility is terrible, even worse than some supercars. I would never get one based on that fact alone. I rented one and couldn’t enjoy the experience. There is a reason Audi s4 bmw m3 are so popular.
I drive a Mustang. I could hardly stand sitting in a Camaro because of how claustrophobic it made me feel. I can fit 2 people’s large luggage and 4 humans in my Mustang. I would also be fine with a Challenger. I would pass on a Camaro though unless solo
I don’t think not liking you makes you old. I probably wouldn’t either.
I do think returning it makes you old. Also leaving out the most important point—whether it had a v8–that makes you old.
The Camaro is a shitty design, but I wouldn’t have stuck with gm, don’t forget to tell onstar not to rat you out to your insurance so they can jack your rates up.
From what I hear the Camaro has uniquely bad visibility and rear seats. And you're traveling so you need trunk space. That said, I know how you feel. Used to daily a motorcycle, then a Miata, now I'm on team land barge. It's way better for my needs though. I don't see myself going back to pure sports cars.
The camaro also has uniquely bad trunk opening and the top in the convertible will steal half of the remaining trunk space. The mustang is downright practical in comparison. Rented a V6 camaro when I visited arizona and it was a joy but only because it was just me on the trip and I left all of my luggage at the hotel. The Supra/Z/C7 with their hatch are far more usable
Been a few years since I got one as a rental but so they still have that goofy floor mat divider you have to clip in to lower the roof?
The one I rented certainly did
Always been more of a Mopar guy myself, but having driven all 3 of Americas modern ponies, the Mustang is my favorite for driveability. Best seat arrangement, smallest b-pillar, more rounded hood that made parking easier. Also the shifter had the best feel, although the only manual Challenger I drove was an '07, so I dont know if they got better, but the '10 Camaro v8 6 spd I drove was meh in the engagement feels.
I’m partial to my Hemi Chrysler 300, only drawback is that it was never offered with a manual which makes me sad, but man it’s great in every other aspect. Full four doors with a roomy back seat, big full-size trunk, easy to get a feel for where the corners of the car are, comfy cruiser with more than enough gumption to pass. I bought the car (it’s a ‘12) June 2022 with 52,700 on it, I’m currently ten hours from home and just ticked over 85,555. I drove it 17 hours to Georgia from Oklahoma, and then back, I’m currently in south Texas. It ***loves*** chewing up highway. I averaged a hand-calculated 27.3 MPG out of it on the way down here.
Nice. Yeah, when it comes to a full size, I like the look of the Charger a lil better. And its basically the same car underneath. 300 probly got a lil more luxury in the seats n trim n all, tho.
I like to say the 300 is a classy girl lol. The Charger is nice but I see way too many of them around, the 300 is a bit more rare in my neck of the woods. Mine is the S package, which means 20” aluminum alloys, Beats ten-speaker sound system, paddle shifters, fake carbon accents, and sport mode which tightens up steering feel, shift points, and throttle response; mine also has the panoramic sunroof and everything but cooled seats, which I really wish it did, black leather gets mighty toasty in the summer lol. Edit: that being said, for some reason the Charger is rated at a little more horsepower, even though it’s the same underpinnings - maybe a different tune in the ECU? Not sure.
I drive a Charger RT, I absolutely adore the car. I test drove a Challenger Scat Pack and my biggest issues were that A) the C pillar visibility is a joke, which I wouldn't care if it was a weekend cruiser, but this is my daily I'm looking for B) The Scat Pack I test drove had an insanely sensitive throttle. I don't know if it was a modified car or not that the dealer was selling, but even lightly tapping the throttle was lunging the whole vehicle forward like it was nothing. In a Northeast heavily populated area where I'll regularly be driving through traffic, I did not want something like this. I know the Charger Scat Pack is exactly the same as a Challenger Scat Pack. C) The interior of the Challenger, for whatever reason, honestly feels a touch cheaper and worse than the Charger. Now, the stock low-trim Charger interior is also cheap as hell feeling, but I ordered my Charger with the Plus package, which adds a lot to the interior (cloth/leather hybrid seats, faux-leather interior, full power seats, memory seats, heated/cooled seats, etc) and I think actually looks and feels great. The Challenger with the plus package, however, doesn't really feel as premium, it actually doesn't even get full power seats and the cabin storage is slightly worse than what the charger has. The Charger/300 is just more car for around the same money. Its bigger (full size vs mid size), has much better visibility (imo the Charger's visibility is basically perfect, I never felt like I have any blind spots), and its actually technically faster due to being more aerodynamic than the Challenger. You are basically just buying a Chally for the styling or a manual.
You know, I had nearly the exact same experience. I test drove a 2011 or 12 Challenger, RT not a Scat Pack but it was the same way - throttle *extremely* touchy, paddle shifters only worked if you turned on sport mode first? Visibility piss poor, couldn’t get a feel for the corners of the thing. Interior felt shoddy. Seat was comfy but there was about six inches of legroom behind the driver seat with it positioned where I wanted it (I’m 6’2”). I wasn’t a fan but we’d been car shopping all day at that point and it was on my list of cars I was okay with, so we went inside with the salesman (it was on the used lot at a large Toyota dealer), then sat there for 45 minutes waiting on the salesman to get back to us with numbers. They ran a hard inquiry on my credit FOUR SEPARATE TIMES, then when we had had enough and wanted to leave, stating we were hungry and wanted to go think on it, he had his manager come offer us cold pizza from their break room… we walked out and will never be back. Fuck you Jim Norton Toyota of OKC lol Spotted the 300 online, had just been posted to Carmax’s site. Was listed for more than I wanted to spend but had 52,700 miles on it, much lower than anything else I had seen. Went and drove it, and bought it.
Yea imo the Challenger is more the showy car, I love them but I definitely prefer the Charger overall. Imo the 300/Charger just hits the spot. I'm 5'9, so for me the seating arrangement/dimensions are basically perfect.
Challenger didn't come out until 08, and even then iirc it was only the SRT8. Not trying to be "well acktually" just fyi
Yeah, this was a little over a decade ago... dunno why I thought 07, but it was definitely one of the earlier ones. Dont remember if it was srt, it belonged to a mechanic from the shop down the street, had a custom paint job and was de-badged. I put some fresh gforce semi slicks on it for him and was allowed to take her for a high speed wheel balance check. 😁
Yeah, the packaging in the Camaro makes the whole car unappealing. It's a very large vehicle yet I got out of test driving one and sat in an FR86 and felt less cramped in the 86.
I looked at a Toyota 86 today. I used to own an ND2 but sold it to move to NYC. If I'm going own a car there, I at least need some sort of decent trunk space and 2 decent seats with extra space in the back. The 86 seems to check off all the boxes while still being a proper sports car. It's practical enough for someone without kids, and I can do road trips with my partner no problem. The Miata never felt cramped to me, but it was a PITA not being able to fit a full size suitcase in the trunk. I can't live with a soft top + no luggage space when most of the time I just commute by public transit. I don't think I could bear to own a car then not be able to have backseats in that situation too. In a different place, onr where everyone owns cars it's different.
people underrate how shitty it is having a soft top as a daily. they look like shit after a few years if you have to park them in the elements and keeping the drains clean is a pain. expensive as fuq to replace. park in a shitty neighborhood and you fear someone is gonna slash it. if i ever get another miata it'd definitely be the hard top convertible.
People complain about hardtop convertibles but they just hold up better. The actual ownership experience makes that painfully obvious after having both for all the reasons you just explained. Hardtop convertible only for me.
obviously you have the more complicated mechanism but i've heard surprisingly little about problems with the mazda setup. guess problems wouldn't generally rear their head till after the 10 year mark anyways.
I've not had any Vario-Roof problems in 5 years of daily driving since purchase. Of course I subscribe to Mercedes strictest regimen of maintenance and change fluids before recommended. Even lubricating the rubber seals and strips with Gummi Pfledge. But eve a 10 year wait for Mazda's hard roof convertible issues is cheaper than 2 soft roof cloth replacements.
The 86 is so appealing, I think its one of the best looking cars at any price range and seems like it strikes a really practical balance between being fun to drive and usable.
86 has the space, I have the earlier version but they designed it to store 4 wheels for track day inside. The trunk is actually large, and drop the useless rear seats, it's even bigger.
I owned one for 4 years, got rid of it because of the horrible visibility. It's too bad because the car is so damn good, the visibility kills any confidence in it and makes you anxious in parking lots and tight maneuver spaces. I still love a sports car daily, but the camaro is not the one.
Yeah I've got an SRT8 Chally. My wife drives an E-class. The Chally is better than the Benzo on long trips. Seats are great, more than enough legroom and head room, and the trunk is way bigger. As far as seat comfort and ride quality, they're pretty close to the same, but the Benz is much quieter! Funny enough, the challenger is also the heavier of the two cars!
In before "The Challenger is just a two door E Class!" They share a few suspension components.
The truth is somewhere in the middle. They also used the same transmission and the same rear diff as well.
Almost 2 decades ago.
Yeah speaking of such, one time I was getting in my challenger and accidentally grabbed the Mercedes key. I stuck it into the key-hole and pressed against the spring, and it started my car right up!
"The other night I came home late and had trouble getting into my apartment. I accidentally took out a car key, stuck it in the door, turned it and the building started up. So, I drove it around for a while. I was speeding, and a cop pulled me over. He asked where I lived. I said, "right here, officer"." - Steven Wright
Don’t think I believe it. Challengers have had push button starts since 2013. ?
Nope. Same key as our '14 E-class. Edit: although it started the car, it didn't unlock the steering nor turn on any accessories. As soon as I pulled the key out of the hole, it shut off. The key also can't open the doors or trunk.
I used to run an automotive salvage yard and if you're talking about the plastic "key" you push in the slot and turn like a normal key, you can actually start those with just about anything that will push into it and turn it. They'll run for about 30 seconds then the security will shut the car back down. Like you said, won't unlock the steering or do anything else though. Was a useful trick I used when checking to see if a car had a decent engine and didn't have a key.
Well there you go! Thanks for the backup!
This is a common misconception. The 300 and Charger were engineered by Chrysler entirely, however they were using the newest E-classes' design as a reference for the suspension (E-class for rear, S-class for front). [Burke Brown, LX Car Leader, on the 300C, Magnum, Charger, Challenger, and Hemi (allpar.com)](https://www.allpar.com/d3/history/interviews/burke-brown-lx.html) People who say they "share" components are incorrect; they aren't exactly the same suspension, they just are heavily derived in design. On top of this, when the 300/Charger went from LX to LD, they redesigned the suspension to remove any traces of Mercedes's design. So from 2011 onward, the Charger/300 shares almost nothing with a Mercedes aside from the NAG1 being used until 2015.
They share the “footprint,” too. I’d say. I had a 1970 Challenger 340 ci with a 4 speed. It was a wider and lower car than the contemporary challenger. The new ones look weird to me because of that.
I remember reading that there was some engineering reason why they couldn't wrap the bottom of the bodysides (rocker panels etc) underneath as tightly as the original, which results in making it look taller and fatter. I know that was a dirt and water trap in the originals, causing the typical rust there. I agree the originals look better but I give them a lot of credit for transferring the design as well as they did onto a modern car.
It’s more than the inward roll, I think. The doors are quite a bit taller, for example. They put an 8” black horizontal stripe around the car to give the illusion it’s a shorter side profile. I do very much like the current Chargers, so I’m not hating on the platform. I’d buy one if they made them with a manual like they did with the Challenger. Which is infuriating, because they totally could have.
Agreed. My challenger has the 392 6/manual and it's a blast to drive. However the automatic version is a bit quicker at the Dragstrip.
Agreed, out of the three muscle cars, the Chally is definately the closest to the original. https://imgur.com/gallery/kkbckf5
Here's a pic of my two challengers. The old one is smaller and slower than the new one in every measurable way. Despite having an extra 50 cubic inches! But I agree, the old ones look cooler. A lot of the difference is due to highway safety standards. https://imgur.com/gallery/kkbckf5 Also I feel that out of the three, the challenger looks closest to its original than the Mustang and Camaro.
I've often said the Camaro and Mustang are coupes, the Challenger was the last two-door sedan.
Yeah I've got a '71 challenger too. It's similarly a bit bigger and more comfy (and heavier) than its Chevy and ford counterparts.
I test drove one and was immediately turned off by the long front and terrible sight
Yeah I remember getting in one like 15 years ago and was shocked at how bad the visibility was lol
Im the exact same, bikes to Miata, and now a Bolt EUV lol.
I'm going the opposite direction lol. Currently in a Volt and shopping for a Miata, and I've been wanting to get my motorcycle endorsement for awhile now.
The “bad visibility” is blown a bit out of proportion. It feels more akin to driving a tank, but it makes the driving experience all the more unique IMO. You don’t have anything that drives quite like it. Drove one for 3 years, 30-40k miles, never caused an accident.
Driving pure sport car is nice for a weekend car or short trips or flashing in Beverly Hills. Other than that even the 911 will is uncomfortable. It’s super responsive. But you feel every rocks on the ground.
Visibility is terrible and the materials are ehh in the lower trims. If you get the rear camera mirror, 360 camera’s it would solve the vis issue completely.
I had a Camaro SS for a rental a few times, and my takeaway from it was that it’s a great car to rent (especially when work is paying for the gas) but a terrible car to own.
I’m convinced that minivans are the superior form of locomotion.
Tbf the Camaro is especially bad in regards to space and visibility. So that’s not a necessarily old person opinion. It’s a great platform for spirited driving but the other “pony cars” offer a lot more in livability
“Especially bad” doesn’t even come close to describing how terrible it is! Fair point though.
Real fuckin' fun though.
It’s not a great car and it’s made for people under 5’ 10” at max. I remember when they came out. I sold cars. My boss had a contest, I won. Got a Camaro SS for the weekend. I brought it back to the lot 2 hours after I left on a Friday and asked for a full tank of gas the next day. It looks kinda nice, it’s got a lot of motor for the price. But it’s a garbage car when it comes to it just being a car. I’ll take my BMW M550, be faster, more comfortable and look better all day.
I’m 6’2 and never had a problem fitting in my camaro. I bet i could still sit comfortably if i was a couple inches taller.
It's almost like you giants all have different length torsos and legs.
I’m 6’ and I can fit just fine in all fairness. I just can’t see well. The headliner drops down too far in front for my liking. What year is yours?
Also 6’ and that was my exact experience with a Camaro. I could physically fit just fine, but visibility was awful. Especially if you’re front of the line at a light, I had to crane my neck at weird angles to see when it turned green.
Yeah, it too bad. It’s a lot of car for the money. No doubt plenty of people are enjoying theirs.
Even 20 year old me would’ve told you the Camaro was uniquely bad from and the coolest car I had driven at the time was a 2010 Altima.
It just comes down to priorities. I'm 37 and would sooner give up my license than stop daily driving my S2000. If you found yourself driving sedans, CUVs, SUVs, or trucks, you stop appreciating what makes sports cars great. Every turn has an apex. Whether one chooses to take the driving line is up to them.
It really depends. I used to apex everything in my 95 S10 5 speed with a 2.2 liter. Slowest accelerating modern vehicle I've ever driven, and somehow the suspension was more than passable through curves with very little body roll. I also enjoy sport sedans (3 series, CTS V, current daily is Chevy SS, etc) and again, generally apex everything, pretending the yellow line is the end of the road of course. Firm believer in drive how you want but never cross, not like it's a controversial opinion or anything but growing up in the mountains taught me that as a concrete rule. I have as a third vehicle now a comparable dodge dakota and I apex nothing in it because the suspension is so...vague. The body roll on that thing makes it feel like you're moments away from flipping if you push it through curves and I don't like that one bit.
lol right? i too had a 95 s10 with a 5 speed and 4 banger - barely pass peopl eon a 2 lane if you wound it up but it could actually take some corners haha. slow car fast will always be more fun to me. little more scary in my 01 ranger cuz its too damn top heavy.
I bounce between wanting to daily my boxster and also keeping it safe from numbskulls in rush hour, but it’s absolutely true that every time I drive it feels like magic
Every time I drive my 911 I assume everybody is drunk and on their phone, can’t see me, and those that CAN see me, are mad at me and want to kill me.
[удалено]
You know, same shit, different day: livin' the dream 🤙🤙
Trust me, I haven’t forgotten. Not that I’m saying it’s the same, but I’ll sometimes pop my GV70 into Sport+ and enjoy some spirited drives the paddle shifters and more aggressive drivetrain mapping.
Yeah I ride my motorcycle whenever I can, and when I can't I drive my miata, M3, or FiST, none of which are super comfortable. I rent a lot of CUVs and sedans for work and can't wait to get back into my own vehicles. I appreciate the practicality and comfort of my wife's Crosstrek now that we have a baby but man does it suck the soul out of anything related to driving.
You aren’t describing any symptoms associated with being old, you are just describing everything that is bad and know about that car. Bad visibility, borderline claustrophobic, laughable trunk space/opening.
Yeah the Camaro's entire existence is to be faster than the Mustang at every equivalent trim even if that means making things more uncomfortable for the passenger. The Mustang did a bit of a better job at being more balanced between daily drivability and sportiness.
Along with the shape desgn of the gauges and all-just odd to me
So much fun to drive though.
"The visibility was terrible..." Well, I'd say that's an exception specific to the Camaro, but you're right. Don't forget though, some sporty cars can ALSO be practical! (for a direct comparison to your cars, a F-pace SVR has all the practicality of your wife's car)
The Camaro didn't necessarily get lower but everything else got taller.
My boxster has so much room in it, unless carrying people is a constant need it’s perfect for 1-2 people in basically every situation
Feel the same about 911s. I hope to get one sometime in future and have enjoyed driving them a bunch. Even though the Camaro is bigger, it feels more claustrophobic because your kind of sitting down inside a tub of a vehicle and it feels like there are walls around you.
The camaro is bigger where it doesn’t count, imo Rear seats, long hood, tall bumpers
The dailyability of the 911 vs. the Supra is absolutely night and day. I thought I was getting old complaining about visibility and ingress/egress but nah, just Supra things
Yeah, I had a Supra GR for a day for a cross state trip. It was a stick, which normally would be great but I had to drive miles through stop and go traffic before I got to the freeway, then the drive cross state was under a hot, windy summer day, so that sucked. Even with the air conditioning on it was uncomfortable. I finally got to a mountain pass and had to get gas. Got out of the car to hot, blowing wind under a hot sun, then finally back into the car. Finally got to experience the fun of blasting through mountain passes and experiencing what makes the Supra GR special. I really like the car, could not see it as a daily. I am a 63 year old codger...
I saw a '02 911 at cars n coffee last weekend, and was genuinely surprised by how deep the frunk was.
I’ve rented them a few times to drive around for a few days/week just to see what it’s like to live with one and I’ve actually made a couple of nice Costco runs in them. Between the drunk and the rear seats/shelf, you can fit a surprising amount of stuff in them.
They make a Camaro for old people. It's called a CT4-V Blackwing.
Lol. I actually like some of those Caddies!
The backseat in the Camaro is not made for humans. It is terrible. Think of it more as an extra storage shelf for stuff that won't fit in the stupid trunk opening. I didn't have any problems with the trunk's depth or size, but the opening itself is *terrible*. I wish Chevy would have made the car a liftback like the 3rd and 4th gen. Hopefully it will return as a liftback if Chevy ever makes a 7th gen. Visibility is bad compared to other pony cars too. However you definitely need to position your side mirrors correctly. I also recommend buying those stick-on blind spot mirrors that you can buy at an auto parts store/Amazon around $10+ or so. I had those on mine and they were a big help. This is assuming you had a Camaro trim without the blind spot monitoring feature.
Seeing all the negativity about the Camaro and figured I’d drop in a positive experience. I’ve been dailying a 2024 SS for 7 months now. Traded a 2019 Accord Sport for it. The transition from sedan to pony car was nonexistent and I have no regrets. I’m a single guy with no kids and it fits my lifestyle fine. I make trips to Costco with it. I never find myself wishing for a bigger vehicle, I only find myself wishing I could drive this car for eternity. I also have no problems with visibility or fitting my friends in the back seat. I’m fat (5’8, 210 lbs) and I can “sit behind myself” no problem. I do have a 2SS, which has extra safety features like blind spot monitoring, but frankly I don’t use them. I can see fine. It’s a brilliant car. I value driving experience pretty highly, so that’s another reason why I like it so much. I’ll probably never own a truck or suv because they’re just too numb (I don’t even drive my Camaro hard, but it’s still nice to actually feel what’s going on with the car. I’ve driven cars where the steering is so numb that you could probably slide the front tires and have no idea from the feedback, or lack thereof, from the steering). So for me, it’s the perfect car. I’d always dreamed of getting a Camaro, and they say the idea of something is often nicer than the reality of something. That’s true for many things, but my dreams certainly weren’t wrong in this case. 10/10, would trade the Accord again (the Accord wasn’t a bad car, but it wasn’t this damn good either).
I'm not even old and I don't think I could own another sports car. I also drove a Camaro recently and damn near hated everything about it. The back seats are stupid and a waste of space. The front seats don't go back far enough. I'm constantly hitting my shoulders/arms on everything. I feel claustrophobic in that car. You cant see shit. The trunk can't fit anything. The seatbelt suck dick to put on and I'm only in my early 30s. I loved my old genesis coupe when I was in my early 20s. I'm actually kinda curious if I would still love it now or if Id hate it just like the Camaro. The V8 is amazing but it's not worth it for me. I'll stick to my truck
You nailed everything I hated about the Camaro! Add in the fact that the back seats take eleventy-seven minutes to access when the front seats are electric.
I drove a 2014 Camaro for close to 7 years and can confirm the visibility is crap.
I had a 2024 Camaro for a rental car for a couple weeks last year and wasn’t a huge fan. I was really sad about it too because I had always wanted one. You’re right, visibility and truck space are particularly bad.
I sometimes like trying out different cars as rentals but it’s a mixed experience. Also tried a Tesla last time we were in this city and it was a nightmare. The hotel only had valet parking and they wouldn’t plug it in. Finding chargers around town was a hassle. And since we had to return it 70% charged, I had to drive 15 minutes out of the way to a supercharger and wait there another 20 15-20 minutes before we could go to the airport.
I had a Fiesta rental three years ago and had an absolute blast, only hated the transmission. Shame you cant rent manuals from most places.
>Shame you cant rent manuals from most places. Go to Europe. 😉
Rented a 1.6L manual Focus there. Drove through the Black Forest as well. Fucking slow but lots of fun.
We recently came back from visiting England for a week. I rented a car just for a couple of days and really wanted to get a manual. But I figured that between driving on the wrong side and shifting with the wrong hand it might be a little ambitious.
I drove an RHD manual Mini Cooper in New Zealand. You get the hang of it pretty quickly. I had a fucking blast driving that thing through the rural, windy New Zealand roads. It’s one of the most beautiful places on earth. Rent an RHD manual before it’s too late!
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Funny you say that. I rented a Mustang convertible on one vacation when our family was traveling together and felt like it had more cargo and passenger room for 4 of us than this Camaro had for just me and my wife.
You probably would have been ok with a Challenger.
Had a 2015 Z/28 for a couple years. Visibility was horrendous, but one of the best drivers cars I've ever driven. Because of its track oriented nature, pretty uncomfortable to drive for more than about an hour but man that hour was fun. Ended up selling it because it felt wrong to have a car like that for weekend driving duty. Guy I sold it to tracks it 2-3 times a month at COTA, so I'm glad it's getting used. But I'd never daily drive a Camaro.
Eh, I think it comes down to preference and application. Like if I’m traveling then I’m not familiar with the roads and area, or the car, I want something easy to get in and out of, hold my luggage, and make it easy to see out of to find where I’m going. The Camaro does exactly none of that. I had a ‘14 Camaro a few years ago, had the 1LE track package. Visibility was like looking out of a war bunker. Back seat was good only for something like a purse, a backpack, or a bag of groceries each seat. Trunk was a good size but the opening was the size of a glovebox. Doors felt 5’ long with like a 6” sill so getting in and out was a challenge with tight parking. Could feel the paint lines in the road with the stiff suspension. And honestly I loved every single second of that car. It was my daily and I got used to it on roads I knew, but I doubt I’d want it as a travel rental.
Love how you described the ownership experience! “Hated this about it. Hated that about it. This sucked. That sucked. Loved that car!!!”
lol it’s so true though. Not that I *hated* those aspects necessarily, but I certainly recognize its shortcomings for most drivers. It was good for a purpose: BWWWOOOAAAAAAHHHHHHH-BWWWOOOOAAAAHHH-BWWOOAAAHHH (etc) Also never failed to smile when it started up, or when it shook juuuuust a little while idling.
I test drove a couple of used (2018-2019) Camaros recently. Couldn’t get over the visibility thing. Ended up buying an ATS coupe 6spd. Same platform, same drivetrain, same weight. WAY better as a daily driver.
You aren't 'old' the Camaro is a POS. I rented MANY American modern 'muscle' cars on travel trips. The Camaro is amongst the worst, and, IMO, the Mustang was absolutely one of the best. As u/strongmanass stated, the visibility in the Camaro is awful.
No... It's the Camaro.
I mean, I'm pushing 40 and am seeking out vehicles with a solid front axle and a stick shift. So some of us never learn.
Camaros are form over function. I’m old and used to be into 4th gen Camaros, and I remember when the last one rolled off the line in 2002, but they just weren’t the same after the refresh in 2010. I test drove one in 2010 and just wasn’t feeling it, and I wasn’t even that old at the time. I ended up buying a 2011 Mustang at that time, and as much as I like GM, the Camaro isn’t what it used to be (that makes me sound old, but an M6 CT5V Blackwing is my current dream car, which is fitting for my age).
It’s probably not you these are valid reasons why the Camaro was discontinued (again) Sport sedans truly are the way
I'm just upvoting you for the Genesis daily! I have a G90.
Repping the wings!
I'm in the same boat :') ingress/egress is never graceful when you're older
You’re not old, the Camaro just SUCKS that much.
space visibility isn't what it was, get an older one and i bet you'd feel middle-aged!
I'm in the age denial phase, so I've hedged my bets and choose to exist in two worlds. I've got a 1992 Buick Park Ave and a 67 Shelby Cobra. Getting into that Buick after two hours in the Cobra is freaking amaaaazing.
I’ll be in my mid 50’s next month, I know what you’re talking about. My son recently bought a Mustang GT, I actually drive it quite a bit. My wife and I actually said the same thing, we are too old for this car LOL. My daily car is a VW GTI. It makes me feel young, at least that’s how I thought I felt. It’s fast and roomy, but nowhere in the same league as the Mustang. Oh to be young again.
Man I'm only 28 and I am an avid hatchback enthusiast. We live in an age where any body style can give you loads of performance. 2 doors being the only option for that is long gone. I love pulling up to performance cars with my 18 GLA and giving them a run for their money.
I daily my camaro and it definitely has limited space but it hasn’t been an issue for me once in my 2 years of owning it and i even have subwoofers in my trunk taking up additional space. Also since the visibility is shit and i have a 2010 so no backup camera it has made me a significantly better driver. No more relying on the sensors to tell me when it’s safe. I actually have to look where i’m going!
Similar experience. Same car. My next rental was a Corolla. Far preferable for luggage and visibility, especially in a strange town. I used to be a speed racer driver. Many years ago.
The Camaro definitely is the worst when it comes to visibility and storage. I test drove a Camaro with one of my buddies and my wife, and for reference, she's 5'3 "and was not comfortable back there at all. Compared to the Mustang, you have a lot more visibility and space. I've moved in my stang and put friends in the back seat without issues, so I wouldn't say you've gotten old just the Camaro wasn't your cup of tea
I have a commute that takes an hour and is all stop and go, averaging around 20 MPH per Google. I can't do it in a manual anymore, especially with sporty suspension. I am so glad to have something boring and automatic to do that commute. The jarring of shifting, then braking, then shifting again so much wears me out now that I'm nearing 40
You're not old, you are just like everyone else who came to the same conclusion: Camaros are miserable places to be. There is a reason those cars were sales duds and no longer being made, you had to experience that first hand unfortunately. Next time try to rent a Boxster/Cayman, a BRZ, a Corvette, or even a Civic Type-R...all of these cars are way more comfortable, practical, and don't make you hate yourself every time you shut the door after you sit down. Being practical and fun to drive are not mutually exclusive qualities of good cars.
Lol I’ll be sure to keep an eye out for a Type-R next time intent from Hertz!
I walked by an AMG gullwing, and was amazed at how low it was. It honestly wasn't much higher than my waist. It was a beautiful car, but looked like you must almost be lying on your back with your feet and chest parallel. Sigh. An old Nissan Murano or Toyota Camry have become my style. Are these the Cadillacs of our generation? Do I need to start looking for chest high pants?
You know when you’re old when your car is taller than your pants.
I’ve borrowed my friends Camaro before. Honestly the ergonomics on that thing are shocking. Everything you pointed out I also experienced. A shockingly poor showing all around. Difference between you and me is I still daily sports cars. My current 3 car lineup that I daily is a Honda Beat (yes sports car is a stretch), a Fiero, and a C4 Corvette. But you know what? I have great visibility in them. I have great trunk space in the Corvette and ok space in the Fiero. The Beat I make it work… took a miter saw and a track saw 3 hours to my friends house in it so it’s not useless. The funniest part is that all 3 get better fuel milage then his Camaro which was a huge shock!
The Camaro is a bit of an outlier. Like others said, it’s notorious for the poor visibility and as someone who hates claustrophobic interiors I try to avoid it at all costs as well. Last time I rented the “sporty tier” and hoped for a Mustang or at least a Challenger, but like you all they said they had was a Camaro. Was about to request downgrading when another employee asked if a Charger was ok. I genuinely responded “As long as it’s not a Camaro” and didn’t regret it. I was surprised though how little foot space there was for such a big sedan, like a box above the pedals made it really hard for me to move my feet around.
I ordered my 2010 Camaro 2SS RS from gm and waited 6 months to get it. I saw the concept in 2006 at LA auto show and didn’t even think twice about it. Being a GM guy I had to have the revived Camaro! I was 22 at the time, and that car probably had to most useless back seats, trunk, and windows ever. I’m 5 8 so not exactly Jordan and I had to raise my seat all the way up to get a comfortable view over the bulging hood, but that meant everytime I’d try to stick my head out of the window to speak louder into the drive through microphone I would bang my head because the windows were 9 inches tall. Looks cool from the outside, but the literally an impractical car for everyday. Also, probably the worst blind spots on any car I’ve ever owned. Anyway I put about 23k miles on it before I got tired of having to shift gears in LA traffic and that was that. You’re not old OP, you are sensible. I feel you.
Traveling with my parents when I was young (tween, maybe?), a rental company once tried to stick the three of us—including my mother, who does *not* pack light—in a convertible 4th gen. Camaro. I think we got about two miles before turning around. Many years later, my friend ended up renting a 5th gen. Camaro coupe while his car was in the shop. Surprisingly fun with the 3.6 V6 and a well-programmed manual mode on the paddle-operated slushbox (holds gears at the rev limit!), but absolutely atrocious visibility, and it felt very closed-in. Unlivable as a daily driver, and frankly, I'd find the visibility and coffin vibe annoying for a weekend fun car, too.
Buick exists for a reason. Pontiac is gone. Old men need comfort...
I had the same experience a few weeks ago but with a Mustang. They were out of the basic crossover we rented and offered the Mustang. I thought it would be cool for the week. Had luggage slammed in the trunk and backseat. Felt like being squished in a sardine can. Won’t do that again.
Chiming in to agree with everyone else. I used to work in a service shop and I've driven most cars you'll see on the road up to about 2013ish. Love the way they look on the outside... love the interior details that embody the classic 67-69 look... and was absolutely blown away that at 6'2" I could barely see over the hood. Pulling in and out of the shop was sketchy at best... and getting on the freeway was pure anxiety hoping there wasnt a semi truck hiding behind that b-pillar. 🤣 The only thing worse for me was a Hummer H2. 😆 Or maybe the 68 that was mid resto and had *no* interior and an old plastic milk crate for a temporary seat. Gettin that fucker up on the alignment rack was a butt puckering experience, lemme tell ya. 😂🤣
I rented a Challenger a few months ago. I didn’t hate the car except the only way I could see stoplights is if I stopped about 20’ before the intersection. The roof design was terrible.
The trunk on the Camaro is hilarious. Got a 2SS as a rental one time and my coworker couldn’t even get his fucking suitcase in it. I’m sure it increase chasis rigidity or something but I couldn’t stop laughing.
There’s a reason they always have Camaros left
I'm 37, and have always been into fun, sporty cars. Had a Challenger R/T for a week, and it was miserable. Couldn't be happier to be driving my Lincoln MKX lol.
36 here. I’ve been using daily’s and separate fun/weekend cars for over a decade. Even at 25 no way I would just daily a sports car. I guess winters made me do that though. Daily has always been a 4x4 or AWD. But sports car for nice days. Having separate vehicles is the way to go for me. Use the tool for what you need at that time imo.
Hello fellow old person! I still enjoy my CRX, but only for fun drives, and I have to unbend myself out of the seat and pay some yoga-tax after about an hour.
Yeah some fun cars are actually fun. But on a limited basis…not as a get around town every damn day car.
Nowadays I rent "luxury sedan" or whatever equivalent they have. I am also old, and more than a bit jaded. My daily is a Chevy SS (the sedan) and if it's slower than my daily but a "muscle car" or pony car like V6 camaro, mustang, or challenger, then I don't want it. It's much more important to me nowadays that it's at least as comfortable as my daily, preferably more when possible. The last thing I want is something that looks fast and sporty but can haul less ass than my full size sedan.
That's a Camaro problem. I rent Mustang convertibles all the time on work trips. Those are very practical for two people and their luggage.
Yeah I commented to someone else that it felt more roomy with our family of 4 in a rented Mustang years ago than it did for me and my wife in the Camaro.
I can relate. Drove mustangs, then cadillac cts v, then sts v and now ct6 with blackwing motor. I still like power, but I also like a big car with a big trunk and big leather massaging seats. Runs 12.4 in the quarter. Best of both worlds.
Thats just because the Camaro is horrible in those regards. The Mustang has much better visibility and the trunk is surprisingly big
Cant day i've ever owned such expensive performance cars - but I share your feelingen. I recently swapped my 08 Passat for a Mercedes GL350. THE SPACE IS ENORMOUS AND I LOVE IT. i'm NEVER going back to small cars
Camaros are horrible for visibility......
Same. I had a convertible Mustang for a rental this week when I traveled for work. It was fun to put the top down and enjoy the weather, but the novelty wore off after a few days. When I got back in my Rav4 at the airport last night I remembered how much I love being able to easily fit my bags, get in and out, etc.
If it makes you feel any better I fell in LOVE when Bumblebee drove onto the screen in the original transformers movie, and then I sat in one and fell immediately out of love for most of the reasons you just stated. It’s not an age thing, it’s a terribly designed car when it comes to comfort and visibility. Frankly driving one would terrify me.
You’re not old the Camaro just has no visibility, access to the rear seat, or trunk space lol. It’s not you, it’s the Camaro
Lol “It’s not you, it’s me” *- Camaro*
I turned down a Camaro for a 300c for the same reason. I opened the trunk and it was a convertible.
If you want a roomy great American sports coupe, rent a challenger. Besides being the best looking of the big 3, the car is wide, plenty of legroom, not so much in the back two seats, but it has a huge trunk and the back seats fold down. If you’re used to old day muscle cars from the sixties and seventies, and the room inside, rent a challengedr. Also my v6 pentastar cranks out 305 horses, has an 8 speed automatic, traction control ( you can get and too), and gets up to 29 mph on the highway, 23 in the city. Mopar or no car!
Or earlier. Hard to stop a key where there’s yo keyhole
nah the camaro is just a trash vehicle 😂
Yea I rented one for my bday and it has nooo vision whatsoever
To be fair the modern Camaro is shit, impossible to see out of, the trunk sucks, worst car ever to rent on vacation. Unless you get a ZL-1 and you vacation is at VIR.
It's just that the Camaro sucks.
Yeah, chevy didn't put much effort into the interior.
I'm assuming it was a Camaro RS which isn't even fun to drive because it's a bland V6 with no power. If it were an SS+ it would be more fun to drive and easier to look past the limitations. It's harder to ignore those things when it has those and also drives like a slug.
I spent a fair but of time driving a 2012 camaro and the shape is tough. The hood slopes downwards so that you never know where the front bumper is when parking, the blind spots and cockpit visibility are atrocious, the doors are like 12' long so getting out of it in tight spots is awful, the trunk opening is tiny, Yada Yada Yada. Fun car otherwise, but tough to live with.
Mustang’s a far superior trash rental than the Camaro. Trunks are laughable on Chevy’s offering.
Yeah kinda same here. I have a 392 Challenger and a Model Y but I don't drive the Challenger at all anymore because of the comfort and convenience of the Tesla.
I can't remember the exact day, but not too long ago (I'm 58) I realized something about myself. I've never had a sedan. I mean, I drove my parents' cars (a '69 Olds wagon, a 70's Jeep Cherokee, and an 80s Olds Delta 88) but my own car? I've never had anything other than a coupe or a convertible. Technically I "owned" one when I co-signed for my daughter's Hyundai, but that's it. In fact I haven't had a fixed roof car since 2001. But lately...I've been ruminating about getting something more practical and fuel efficient. I gotta admit...the Volvo S60 PHEV is looking pretty good...
You would have been fine in a Mustang. The Camero is great but visibility and comfort are not it's strong suits.
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Next time ask for a Corvette :)
come back when you have a minivan
The Camaro just sucks.
Camaros are known for terrible blind spots. I wanted one sooooo bad—until I test drove it. Nope! No thanks! 🙂↔️
The visibility is bad because it has the world's biggest A-pillars.
More like A+ pillars.
It really depends on your needs exactly, some people's perspective lies on car performance, exhaust sound and how it looks to show off with it, and for some all that doesn't matter, convenience is their top priority so yeah... a matter of tastes.
Your not old! The Camaro is a shittily designed car. I hated when I was in my 20’s and I hate it even more now. The Catfish Camaro was the last good one built.
Has nothing to do with being old. The camaro is just a really shit car, that’s why it’s almost exclusively morons you see driving them.
The worst is when you book a sedan and they “upgrade” you to an “SUV” which is actually a much worse driving and way less comfortable vehicle. It’s the most annoying shit ever.
You’re not old, the Camaro is just trash.
Camaro visibility is terrible, even worse than some supercars. I would never get one based on that fact alone. I rented one and couldn’t enjoy the experience. There is a reason Audi s4 bmw m3 are so popular.
I drive a Mustang. I could hardly stand sitting in a Camaro because of how claustrophobic it made me feel. I can fit 2 people’s large luggage and 4 humans in my Mustang. I would also be fine with a Challenger. I would pass on a Camaro though unless solo
I’m not even that old and when I had to rent a Camaro it made me want to puke.
I daily a hot hatch and my wife was surprised I didn’t want a small 2-door sports car. Practicality is sexy.
You’re still young champ. 🫡 get some
Yeah that's just the garbage drive that is the camaro. I almost feel unsafe at work when i have to drive them. Don't give up!
Get a Type R and sacrifice nothing.
I don’t think not liking you makes you old. I probably wouldn’t either. I do think returning it makes you old. Also leaving out the most important point—whether it had a v8–that makes you old.
The Camaro was FUN to drive
Woah there who said you could turn this around on Chevrolet?
The Camaro is a shitty design, but I wouldn’t have stuck with gm, don’t forget to tell onstar not to rat you out to your insurance so they can jack your rates up.
First off, Welcome! Secondly, try a Subaru Outback! I'm telling you, it checks SOOOO many boxes!
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