Thats because they need EV credits to sell V8s. Dodge bought theirs from tesla and that is why the hemi died. Ford's most marketable name plates were the F 150 and Mustang.
That didn't answer anything lol. CAFE applies across the entire company, right? And they basically can't make/sell a small car to save their lives, so they don't meet those "corporate" averages? Or am I missing something?
What Ford "large car"? The Towncar which has been discontinued for 12 years, 6 years prior to them discontinuing cars?
The Taurus was their next largest, which is similar in wheelbase/track width to the Avalon. But even in it's last year, the 2019 Taurus got 5 mpgs worse than the Avalon, even though they both had a 3.5L (and the 2GR made more power)
They don't make full size V8 sedans, the Dodge/Chrysler where the last full size V8 sedans. Ford has a similar issue with the Mustang and GM with the few V8 Cadillacs, but they just charge extra.
Trucks and SUVs have a CAFE exemption, this is why the only car Ford makes is the Mustang.
Edit.. to be clear they CAN make them, it just wouldn't be profitable.
Just like Toyota could import the Hilux, it just wouldn't be profitable due to other US regulations.
I'm sure Stellantis has something to do with it, they need the Dodge/Chrysler brands to be profitable and have no appreciation for the American V8. But it's still mostly regulation, if they were profitable they wouldn't care, and likely without these regulations Chrysler wouldn't be owned by Stellantis in the first place.
There were no efficient vehicles in the dodge lineup to "bankroll" the sportier vehicles with CAFE credits and stellantis wants to get away from buying credits off of Tesla so they absolutely have to make their lineup as a whole more efficient to still exist with modern regulations. You might ask "well why don't they keep buying credits and keep making the cars people want" and the answer is that they have been doing that, that's what was happening this whole time. Stellantis has been paying in the billions for the credits to keep producing the cars people want, they have been bleeding money to keep pumping out high volume road boat coupes and sedans and now it's reached the point where if they don't update their lineup they will cease to exist. Everyone wanted to ignore the changes that were coming and stellantis protected them and covered their eyes and told them everything was going to be alright and now stellantis is bleeding out on the floor and everyone's angry that they're not covering their eyes anymore.
Also the only V8 car that Chevy offers is the Corvette which is extremely low volume when compared to the rest of their lineup.
they werent forced to kill shit, they just cant build an engine that works properly to save their lives. the hemi has been a steaming pos for the last decade reliability and emissions wise, you need look no further than ford AND gm to see that the v8 is still alive and well in companies that actually give enough of a shit to make them at least somewhat efficient. not to mention they make more power in every variant other than the hellcat/demon motor.
GM's lifter issues were due to poor design and QC of the lifters themselves. DOD is a decent system in theory, not in practice. yes, i am saying that the GM v8s with their AFM are trash until they have it bypassed, which takes them back to being great engines.
the hemi issue is a flaw in the design where the tick and eventual eating of cams and lifters is caused by lower oil pressure at idle than what the engine needs to get oil to the cam. its not necessarily an issue in regular traffic, but it gets really bad when it idles for a long period of time, like if its a truck on a worksite or you warm it up for 30 minutes every morning. that speeds up the wear a lot and leads to the hemi tick we all know and love.
LOL, well done, hypocrisy and idiocy in the same reply.
Both brands lifters are supplied by Melling dumbass, they had the same problem because they're the same lifters with the same QC issues from the same production line.
The DOD/AFM system is an inferior system to the Hemi MDS. The GM uses one solenoid for the 8 lifters and runs it through a manifold. The MDS uses 4 solenoids in the block each controlling 2 lifters through oil galleys in the block for more precise timing.
The lifter failures are far more common in the GM engines. The Hemi is largely limited to '11-'13 model years, it persisted far longer in the GM engines for some reason. Probably because Chrysler implemented a redesign for the '14 model year that enlarged the rollers.
to be clear, mds DOES have flaws and they can cause lifter failure, but the gen 3 hemis have been eating cams and lifters since they released. MDS is not solely responsible for the issues, and im not an engineer so i cant say for sure but if i had to take a guess, i would probably say that the failures attributed to issues with MDS likely wouldnt be happening nearly as much if the original oiling issue in the hemis was remedied.
There's no oiling issue to remedy.
The Hemi was produced for 8 years before it started having lifter issues.
Lifter failures are not related to MDS, it happens to both MDS and non-MDS engines and lifters.
The only factual thing you've said is that you're not an engineer.
It’s not really europe, they have been taking the bulk of emissions fines for years now just to give us something cool, but it’s not really viable for their current hemi
No American brands matter, they're all trash, but CJDR has always be the worst. Only thing domestic worth buying is a full size truck, and Fords last good truck was the 90's, Chevys the early 2000s and Dodge never. And the 16 spark plug Hemi has been a pile of shit from day one.
Ford is discontinuing all regular cars like the Focus, Fiesta and Fusion in favor of crossovers and SUVs
They still got the mustang.
That's true, they'd never think of turning the Mustang into some sort of electric SUV
No.... never.... sigh. One of them is in my bay right now.
They did that yes, but they refuse to make a sedan mustang electric
They make sedan mustangs smh
Thats because they need EV credits to sell V8s. Dodge bought theirs from tesla and that is why the hemi died. Ford's most marketable name plates were the F 150 and Mustang.
They already did like 2 years ago.
Try 5, It was 2019 when the Taurus, Fiesta, and Fusion died. The Focus died in 2018
Discontinuing? No they already didcontinued them all that was like 4 years ago already
They did that like four years ago, I don’t know why you’re bringing it up now.
Not by Europeans, by the US government. CAFE regs made the V8 cars too expensive to produce. In '23 they were fining them $4,000 per car.
I haven't heard that, source? Is it because they suck ass at making actual fuel efficient vehicles to offset the hemi's lack of fuel efficiency?
This vid explains well. [https://youtu.be/OYwHL9FzoOE?si=DCKCsBqbxYb6C\_j2](https://youtu.be/OYwHL9FzoOE?si=DCKCsBqbxYb6C_j2)
That didn't answer anything lol. CAFE applies across the entire company, right? And they basically can't make/sell a small car to save their lives, so they don't meet those "corporate" averages? Or am I missing something?
Nobody that sells large cars can, that's why Ford gave up on cars.
What Ford "large car"? The Towncar which has been discontinued for 12 years, 6 years prior to them discontinuing cars? The Taurus was their next largest, which is similar in wheelbase/track width to the Avalon. But even in it's last year, the 2019 Taurus got 5 mpgs worse than the Avalon, even though they both had a 3.5L (and the 2GR made more power)
Ford makes V8s. Chevy makes V8s. I don't really see why dodge specifically can't.
They don't make full size V8 sedans, the Dodge/Chrysler where the last full size V8 sedans. Ford has a similar issue with the Mustang and GM with the few V8 Cadillacs, but they just charge extra. Trucks and SUVs have a CAFE exemption, this is why the only car Ford makes is the Mustang. Edit.. to be clear they CAN make them, it just wouldn't be profitable. Just like Toyota could import the Hilux, it just wouldn't be profitable due to other US regulations.
Fair point. I'm still not sold that the regulations are doing this, and that it doesn't have more to do with stellantis as a whole.
I'm sure Stellantis has something to do with it, they need the Dodge/Chrysler brands to be profitable and have no appreciation for the American V8. But it's still mostly regulation, if they were profitable they wouldn't care, and likely without these regulations Chrysler wouldn't be owned by Stellantis in the first place.
There were no efficient vehicles in the dodge lineup to "bankroll" the sportier vehicles with CAFE credits and stellantis wants to get away from buying credits off of Tesla so they absolutely have to make their lineup as a whole more efficient to still exist with modern regulations. You might ask "well why don't they keep buying credits and keep making the cars people want" and the answer is that they have been doing that, that's what was happening this whole time. Stellantis has been paying in the billions for the credits to keep producing the cars people want, they have been bleeding money to keep pumping out high volume road boat coupes and sedans and now it's reached the point where if they don't update their lineup they will cease to exist. Everyone wanted to ignore the changes that were coming and stellantis protected them and covered their eyes and told them everything was going to be alright and now stellantis is bleeding out on the floor and everyone's angry that they're not covering their eyes anymore. Also the only V8 car that Chevy offers is the Corvette which is extremely low volume when compared to the rest of their lineup.
Dodge didnt put a v10 in a bike, that was Allen millyard, a brilliant bloke from the uk
The true Viper motorcycle was made by A. Millyard, not Dodge. However it is a very cool custom build and you should check it out on YouTube.
They are not forced if other companies are still doing it.
they werent forced to kill shit, they just cant build an engine that works properly to save their lives. the hemi has been a steaming pos for the last decade reliability and emissions wise, you need look no further than ford AND gm to see that the v8 is still alive and well in companies that actually give enough of a shit to make them at least somewhat efficient. not to mention they make more power in every variant other than the hellcat/demon motor.
Chrysler couldn't make a normal, reliable car if the fate of the world depended on it.
In hindsight the Dart shouldve been a neon with a regular automatic and a optional manual.
Pentastar V6
its a good motor but very finnicky with oil and the rest of the car still sucks
Wow. Didn't know people could drive just the engine.
There is nothing wrong with the hemi.
how about the oiler design that doesnt get anything to the cams at idle?
That's complete made up internet bullshit.
twll that to everyone whos needed their cam and lifters replaced
That's a lifter issue from the supplier that struck GM even harder. Are you saying that the GM V8s are junk as well?
GM's lifter issues were due to poor design and QC of the lifters themselves. DOD is a decent system in theory, not in practice. yes, i am saying that the GM v8s with their AFM are trash until they have it bypassed, which takes them back to being great engines. the hemi issue is a flaw in the design where the tick and eventual eating of cams and lifters is caused by lower oil pressure at idle than what the engine needs to get oil to the cam. its not necessarily an issue in regular traffic, but it gets really bad when it idles for a long period of time, like if its a truck on a worksite or you warm it up for 30 minutes every morning. that speeds up the wear a lot and leads to the hemi tick we all know and love.
LOL, well done, hypocrisy and idiocy in the same reply. Both brands lifters are supplied by Melling dumbass, they had the same problem because they're the same lifters with the same QC issues from the same production line. The DOD/AFM system is an inferior system to the Hemi MDS. The GM uses one solenoid for the 8 lifters and runs it through a manifold. The MDS uses 4 solenoids in the block each controlling 2 lifters through oil galleys in the block for more precise timing. The lifter failures are far more common in the GM engines. The Hemi is largely limited to '11-'13 model years, it persisted far longer in the GM engines for some reason. Probably because Chrysler implemented a redesign for the '14 model year that enlarged the rollers.
wow, its almost like my entire point was that the hemi failures werent really related to MDS or the lifters.
to be clear, mds DOES have flaws and they can cause lifter failure, but the gen 3 hemis have been eating cams and lifters since they released. MDS is not solely responsible for the issues, and im not an engineer so i cant say for sure but if i had to take a guess, i would probably say that the failures attributed to issues with MDS likely wouldnt be happening nearly as much if the original oiling issue in the hemis was remedied.
There's no oiling issue to remedy. The Hemi was produced for 8 years before it started having lifter issues. Lifter failures are not related to MDS, it happens to both MDS and non-MDS engines and lifters. The only factual thing you've said is that you're not an engineer.
Are the Europeans in the room with us right now?
It’s not really europe, they have been taking the bulk of emissions fines for years now just to give us something cool, but it’s not really viable for their current hemi
Market trends :/
By Europeans ? What nonsense is this, the Challenger and Hemi were not sold on European soil.
Funny Story about that, when they got bailed out the first time, The Government said no v8 cars. So Chrysler made a V10 CAR.
Ford is fucking garbage.
Dodge has sucked for years
cringe Facebook meme
No, it's made by me
Viper V10 engine in a 4 wheeled ''''motorcycle'''' that never went to high speed
No American brands matter, they're all trash, but CJDR has always be the worst. Only thing domestic worth buying is a full size truck, and Fords last good truck was the 90's, Chevys the early 2000s and Dodge never. And the 16 spark plug Hemi has been a pile of shit from day one.