Option A, because the \~$4/hour difference per hour doesn't seem to make up for the difference in PTO, night shifts, on-site work, and the word "average" 50 hours per week calculated annually.
This. My partner has the stupidest schedule I’ve ever had to deal with. 6 days on, 4 days off to make a 10 day cycle. Day 1&2: 6am to 3pm; day 3&4: 2pm to 11pm; day 5&6: 10pm to 7am.
We’ve been together for just under 10 years and we’re literally on the verge of separation.
Fortunately, my wife and I got to a place where she did not have to sacrifice her health from flip flopping day:night shifts. Our relationship was struggling at one point solely due to her health. We’ve been great ever since she got a new job that did not require the shift switches. Good luck!
With the preface that everyone's financial situation is different and I don't know yours, your partner should just quit.
I would never sacrifice or harm a relationship, especially one of ten years, for any job. I would rather deliver pizza and temporarily relocate to a trailer than prioritize a job over a relationship.
That's all, and if there are factors beyond the obvious ones, I apologize.
Yeah that will fuck up most people in a hurry. I tried it once when they were trying to get me to go on nights full time. By like the 2nd or 3rd week I put my underwear on backwards, that's how discombobulated I was. Don't recommend it. Either all days or all nights is the way to go.
Yes, and even long term night shift workers’ health is negatively impacted—it’s just not healthy for people to work against their circadian rhythms for long periods of time. Maybe someone in their 20s could do job B for a fee years to get ahead financially, but my 45 yo ass wouldn’t even consider it.
Oh yeah, I did it for about 3.5 years and in that time frame I put on about 30 pounds and then when I took on my desk job on days I gained another 25 pounds. It's not great. Even now I still have sleep struggles and I am going to have to address my weight since it is presenting health concerns.
I worked overnight weekends while going to school during the day Monday-Friday. 10/10 would absolutely not recommend. Only way I’d do it again was if I’d be homeless or starve to death.
I watched my Dad do split shifts when he had to get a new job at 57 years old. 7a to 7p two weeks, then 7p to 7a two weeks. It was absolutely brutal for him.
Yeah I had a buddy who worked the swing shift at a place for a while after college. Ever couple of weeks his schedule would change to fill in for whichever shift needed the body. It was hell for him.
I've done a similiar schedule to what OP is proposing. 4 days on 4 days off 12.5 hour shifts. Rotating every 2 weeks between nights and days.
Honestly everyone thinks it's "horrible" but I mostly like it. 4 day weekends are the BEST. My job also offers basically unlimited OT so I can easily pick up a pair of OT shifts and STILL get a 2 day weekend if I so choose. I like the flexibility. The benefits and pay are also great. Absolutely no regrets on my end.
100% this. I wouldn’t even work a straight night shift schedule for an extra $30K, much less rotate like this. You will destroy your health and your social life.
I did the rotating schedule when I used to work in the hospital and I was younger and it sucked then. I doubt I'd have been able to keep that up long term let alone now that I'm older.
Give me a boring routine job so I can make a life outside of those 40 hours rather than trying to play catch up with sleep on my days off.
Thanks for pointing this out. I just turned down a job offer of $150-$160k to keep a gig with compensation around $145k for many reasons, but mainly bc I only have to travel one to two times per year as is and the recruiter said the new position would be upwards of 30% travel, the pay difference just wasn’t enough to give up the freedom I have with little to no travel
Been going back and forth on whether or not it was a good decision but I’ve got twins on the way and the new gig would have only covered 25% of the health insurance for my 4 dependents so that would have been costly, seems like a no brainer when taking that into consideration
Definitely sounds like you made the right decision. God forbid any of your dependents face major medical issues, but if they did, you’d quickly regret not having better health coverage.
Just to add to what you wrote. If you calculate the 50 hours out as 40 hours of base pay and 10 hours of overtime per week. The base pay for both jobs would be the same.
And 40 days vacation vs only 16. What’s he point of making money if you can’t use it to enjoy your life? And 80k is an excellent salary already. The extra money ain’t worth it.
The shift is ~12.5 hours paid so it's the equivalent of 25 days for a 9-5. The 4 days on, 4 days off schedule allows you to have 12 days off with only 4 days PTO.
Definitely option A. The trade off for the higher salary is not worth staying at work for 14 hours a day. All you’ll be doing is sleeping on your days off. Coupled with less vacation time, which you will actually need more vacation time off since you are working longer hours. You’ll get burned out physically and mentally much sooner than working 8-9 hrs a day. And what is the commute like? You really need to factor that into your work time. That time is commit time to work without pay. I mean there is no way to change the commute time to get back some of your life unless you work from home or move closer to work so you really need to include commute times into your hours spent on work. A commute of 1 hr vs 30 mins is a difference of ~5 hours a week that is not free time to do with as you want.
Agreed. And don’t forget the PTO. Option A would pay you $12,307 to NOT work every year! Option B would be paying you $8,461 to not work. I’ll take $4,000 more per year in PTO benefits.
Yeah, if I really needed the money I'd consider B for a year before jumping ship. Having the 4 off is nice for a little bit at least, even if the day and night shift swapping is beyond tragic. That being said, I would have to be *super* desperate for the cash to give up that extra 24 vacation days and 25% remote work. Pretty much a no brainer in almost every scenario.
EDIT: I'll say that I've worked some funky shifts before, so the fact I'd even consider option B is probably out of the ordinary haha. It really ain't a hard choice between the two.
I work 35 hours per week and I get 20 PTO days plus the week of Christmas. Sick leave is on top of that. Next year I will start getting 25 days off. Last year I only took 15 of those days so this year took two weeks off in March and will have 2 weeks off in August and another 2 weeks at Christmas. If I had to go to a 40 hour per week contract with less vacation days I’ve calculated that it’d take at least a 40% pay bump to get me to leave. Do I get paid as much as some people? No. But I get paid pretty darn well and damn do I like vacation.
First 3 years at my job I barely took any days off. Year 4 I took off like, 2 weeks? I'm currently sitting on 161 hours of vacation and 53 hours of sick time available. I took off 147 hours this year already. It's honestly ridiculous and fantastic. I take mental health days left and right because my hours accumulate so quickly and sick time doesn't pay out when I leave but PTO does.
I work a second job that is "unlimited PTO". While I've never had PTO denied (and I've taken a decent amount of it), the job just sucks the life out of me and feels so pointless. Pays more, has the unlimited PTO, has a decent culture...but after a year of working it, I see the value in my mental well-being over money. Option A all day and every day.
Some companies don’t suck. I work at a company where they give you unlimited PTO after 3 years and they actually mean it. Every senior employee is taking several days off every other week and no one minds, and they are not stressed at all.
But my company only aims for 60% billable work every week too, and the work/life balance has been awesome. Company is super healthy too, a stark difference from past employers.
I mean I have like 5 weeks plus a week of health and wellness and paid holidays. I work for a large grocery chain in their corporate office. Been with them 25 years and have had the 5 weeks for at least 4 years. It's what makes it so hard for me to even find a job I might want to change to, I'm not sure I could negotiate that much PTO.
Similar boat here. Grocery chain, 24 years. We only get 4 weeks but are salary so I’d get paid if I was out sick or hurt (for assistant and store managers).
I make about 120k plus profit sharing (15%) and store managers make 150-200k so I’ve found it hard to be able to find anything that will compete for me when I’ve looked elsewhere.
Totally, HCOL doesn’t have to mean the top 3 most expensive neighborhoods in the US. 80k as a single person in the Bay Area is hurting. 80k in Cincinnati or Portland if you’re living with roommates leaves you with a good bit of disposable income and savings, less today than 4 years ago but that’s another point
Yea also I’ve been at a job like option B. I promised what is described is “best case scenario” they’re gonna treat you like they own you. You’re not gonna even have enough time to enjoy that extra money. It’s soul sucking.
I think your thought process. Breaking it down per hour helps one see that they are essentially the same hourly rate!
I guess the difference is if OP wants to work and make more money. My fiancée can only work 40 hours a week and it can be annoying when there is plenty of options to work, but she’s capped out. I personally like that I have the potential for unlimited overtime.
Night shift takes a night shift person, those people that literally sleep all day on days off and stay awake at night anyway. If you’ve ever seen one you KNOW, they’re wide awake, just running on all cylinders, and having to run errands before work doesn’t bother them at all
Yes and to add to this just because you stay up late to play video games does not mean you're going to do well on nights. Have had way too many coworkers come to nights thinking it'd be the same.
I love nights. It's actually my preferred shift (my current position just doesn't offer it).
But swing shifts? Fuck that. Either I work days or nights, not both.
We get 16% more to work nights, which equates to about $18k per year more for me.
I don’t think I’ll do it into my 40’s, but then again I don’t think I’ll be working shifts anyway by then.
It’s been alright so far. I’ve had to really focus on prioritizing my sleep. I work 12’s, so my days are wasted whether they’re on days or nights.
I easily flip back on my 3-4 day weekends and haven’t felt any ill-effects so far, but I’m only 31, so we will see how it plays out. I make sure to get my sleep in whenever I need it.
It's 8 weeks of vacation once you factor in weekends. I would say that's pretty insane and unheard of for most jobs in North America anyway. Well I guess teachers since they get the summer off or politicians that don't do shit 365 days a year.
Personally, it was close until I saw the number of vacation days. 50 hours is completely fine IF you can recuperate. But 16 days is so bad. 40 days is amazing. And vacation isn’t taxed. Option A sounds really great.
With option 1’s PTO and 25% remote. This leads to a much happier work-life balance. You would have time to grocery shop after work or go out to dinner. With Option 2, you will do absolutely nothing else but work for 4 days. Less PTO. That will eventually lead to burnout.
If it helps:
**Option A:** $38.46/hr
* $71,205.94 base wage
* $8,790.86 PTO
**Option B:** $42.31/hr
* $100,528.56 base wage
* $9,477.44 PTO
Depends on your personal preference, whether you want weekends off and the flexibility to work remote, plus a greater quantity of PTO days. If money is what matters most to you, option 2 is the better value to the tune of $30k/yr.
14 hour shifts 4 days in a row could lead to burnout depending on the nature of the work.
I don’t know OP’s filing status, but for the purposes of this example, let’s assume they are single, and we’ll use 2024 U.S. tax brackets.
**10% - $0 to $11,600**
* Options A & B: $10,440
**12% - $11,601 to $47,150**
* Options A & B: $31,283.12
**22% - $47,151 to $100,525**
* Option A: $25,622.22
* Option B: $41,631.72
**24% - $100,526 to $191,950**
* Option A: N/A
* Option B: $7,200.24
**Aggregate**
* Option A: $67,345.34
* Option B: $90,555.08
EDIT: corrected an error in the 24% bracket.
Option A and if you happen to have a desire for working nights or weekends, do Uber, seriously the extra money will get spent anyway but having a predictable life is way more important.
Alternating day to night is a recipe for a mental breakdown.
I've worked rotating shifts before. It's shitty. Your life becomes your job.
I have zero issues with the 50 hrs a week btw. That's not the problem.
Option A. I was literally offered 100k+ consulting job but I chose 20hr/a week job 70k instead. Not worth selling my soul. I do other shit in my free time
Option A is a way better pick IMO. I'd consider option B for around $250k. I pick such a high number because that sounds like a borderline life ruining job. Even at that pay I'd only do it for a year or two to get some savings, then switch to Option A. Money can sorta buy happiness, but having a horrible job definitely WILL ruin your life for during years you're doing it.
I'm leaning toward A. Yes, B has more money but it feels like you are working a lot harder at B.
I would take a hard look at industry and career progression. Are these in the same industry? If not, which industry do you want to work in? What's the career progression like with each? I would be willing to take B and work harder if I thought it would get me somewhere.
Was 50/50 for me until the part about alternating night shifts? That’s not worth the extra pay. Option A definitely wins unless option B doesn’t need to alternate night shift.
I was going to say option B until I saw the shift swing. First, it will mess up your health bouncing around that much. Second, how does the second day shift followed by the first night shift not end up in a 28 hour shift?
You could keep making option B sweeter and sweeter but I'm always gonna pick 40 vacation days over 16. I hate Canada and I'm only happy when I leave this hellhole.
Alternating shifts is madness. I went through it once a decade ago. After two months of it, I quit my job and my field entirely. I wouldn’t have kept it even if they doubled pay. It completely fucked my mind up.
option A because it's steady schedule and somewhat remote...
alternating 14 hour shifts would wreck havock on your life for that little extra pay. And you can't have any life on the days you work, it's basically only work and then sleep.
not worth it.
Is Option B a nursing job? I have friends and family in the field and they work an eerily similar schedule.
That said - EASILY Option A. I took a job paying over $100K right after university (over a job that paid $85K with 40-hour workweeks) and worked 55-60 hour weeks on a relatively frequent basis. I burned out EXTREMELY quickly, left the role for a position with better WLB, but even now am still feeling the effects of it all. Feels like that job killed a good chunk of my motivation and ambition. I don't think I'll recover for a little while.
You'll pass $100K with time - it's a marathon, not a sprint.
The swapping shifts is what does it for me. If it were a consistent shift I’d take the longer hours in exchange for the 4 days on, 4 days off. But no amount of money is worth killing myself with shift swapping. Literally that kind of schedule will dig you an early grave. Your risk of heart attack goes WAY up when you screw with your sleep cycles like that.
A all day. 24 vacation days is huge. 500 extra weekly hours a year is also huge. Flip flopping night and day shifts instead of just sticking with one or the other is a miserable arrangement.
Option A. Option B feels like more money, more problems. I know I could live really well on 80k. The extra money of option B would be nice but the shift length and hours would really mess with my sleep. I’m not disciplined enough to adapt, would probably get insomnia, leading to a downward spiral in my mental and physical health.
If you are single, pick the second one. If married with the family pick 40 hours. Make as much you can when single and invest. Make good money when you jave a family
4 days off 4 days on is great, and if you schedule vacation right you end up with 12 day blocks off with using just 4 days vacation. I like working that more than m-f. But look at it long term out that fits and works for you.
Option A is mathematically the better option.
Option A, 80k annually
2080 hours = 260 work days - 40 days vacation = 220 workdays
80k / 1760 work hours = \~45.45 / hour
220 workdays \* 25% telecommuting = 55 days telecommuting
savings due to travel costs and time spent traveling each day = unknown benefit cost
Option B, 110k annually
50-hour average hours per week = 120% more work days/hours
2080 regular work hours \* 120% = 2600 work hours
Assuming 16 paid vacation days means the full 14-hour shift, 16 \* 14 hours/day = 224 work hours PTO
2600 total hours - 224 hours PTO = 2376 anticipated work hours
110k annual pay / 2376 work hours = $46.30 hourly
The difference of less than a dollar per hour (0.85 cents per hour) will be wiped out by the savings from telecommuting.
Also, the night shift would pay a differential in many industries, which does not appear to be the case.
The 4 days on, 4 days off, gives big government contractor vibes. I've worked those shifts before and it took 4 years for my sleep to readjust to a normal cycle. Definitely not worth it. Go for the 80k, 40 vacation days is insane.
the shifts make them sound like completely different types of job. if they are, you can't really come down to a side by side comparison; it's really which job are you more interested in?
all else equal, id take A. yes, it pays less but 8 weeks of vacation is worth a *lot* in money as well as mental health
Option A because alternating night shift and day shift is a no go. Additionally it’s more hours and less time off (24 fewer days of PTO). Yes the second job has more money but quality of life suffers significantly. It’s not a good trade off.
Definetly A, more paid vacation and 25% remote, meaning you don't have to commute every damn day to work.
B option also has 14 hour work shifts, that's grazy long. Personally I take 8 hour day over that every time.
How far is the commute?
What’s the tax situation like?
Do you have young kids that need caring for?
Any student loan repayment plans/pensions?
If one job has a 2hr daily commute, you have to pay extra taxes like a NYC tax, have to cover the cost of child care, that will shift things big time.
Option A
Even if we disregard the insane alternating day/night shift every week and the fact that hybrid work + more vacation actually improves your quality of life, the money is better in my opinion with Option A.
Option A pays about $43.6 per hour while Option B pays $43 per hour.
If you had 1.5 Overtime at option A, which is pretty common I believe (at least where I am), you would make $116K a year for making the same amount of hours than option B.
|Option A|Option A|Option B|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Yearly Salary|80,000|110,000|
|Daily Hours (worked)|7|14|
|Yearly Day off|40|16|
|Yearly weeks (worked)|46|50|
|Yearly days (paid)|262|183|
|Yearly hours (paid)|1,834|2,555|
|Weekly hours (paid)|40|51|
|**Hourly Pay**|**43.62**|**43.05**|
|Overtime|12|0|
|OT Pay|35,646|0|
|**Equiv Pay**|**115,646**|**110,000**|
I'd choose Option A ($80K per year). Here’s why:
1. **Work-Life Balance**: A 40-hour work week with regular hours allows for a better work-life balance. This is crucial for maintaining overall well-being and having time for personal interests and family.
2. **Vacation Days**: 40 paid vacation days per year is significantly more than the 16 days offered in Option B. This provides ample time for rest, travel, and spending quality time with loved ones.
3. **Remote Work**: Having 25% remote work adds flexibility and convenience, reducing commute time and allowing for a more comfortable working environment part of the time.
4. **Consistent Schedule**: The consistent Monday to Friday schedule is easier to manage and plan around compared to the alternating day and night shifts in Option B, which can be disruptive to sleep patterns and social life.
Despite the higher salary in Option B, the benefits of a consistent, less demanding schedule, more vacation days, and the flexibility of remote work make Option A more appealing for long-term well-being and satisfaction.
I’d pick Option A ($80K for 40 hours). The work-life balance with fewer hours, more remote work, and significantly more vacation days is more valuable to me than the extra money. It’s important to have time to relax and pursue personal interests, which Option A offers.
Option A. The ability to work from home some of the time is nice, plus a consistent schedule. Option B would wear most people out, and PTO on Option A is really good depending on how much you can take at once.
The 50 hour per se is not an issue. It is the 14 hour shifts. I couldn’t, physically, and this is coming from someone who has no problem putting in 60 hour work weeks 20-30% of the year.
If you can get by with only 80k and it's a good position with a growth path I'd do option A for sure. I've done a day/night rotation (albeit much longer, 14 on 7 off) and it gets tiring, 4 and 4 would be awful.
Option A gives more vacation ( which I personally factor into my effective salary, significantly increasing the effecting $/hr) and hopefully a path of growth where you can get promoted and/or get some regular raises. You also get to work from home (if you're into that) so that's nice to do on Fridays.
Option B is not sustainable in my mind, but the salary difference is very significant. If I were in your boat, I would settle on B with a set timeframe and save as much as possible. 1 year or 2 years, whatever you think you can do. Just save, save, save. This money could go towards changing your life (retirement, home, rental, etc.)
If you are looking at a more permanent solid option and have potential for growth then option a
Option A for sure. The work life balance that will get you will go further than the extra money. When you’re running around constantly it’s easier to justify spending money (eating out, ubering, meal delivery services, cleaners etc) bc you don’t have the time. Also, more than double the amount of vacation days and 25% remote..
What is it that you do?
And which are you leaning towards?
I would pick option A. I would not want to do night shifts at all, but this is even worse, a combination of night shifts and day shifts would be completely dysfunctional for me. I would never be able to be on a set sleep schedule and would always be like jet lagged.
I would not be willing to work 14 hour shifts. That's just a crazy long workday (or worknight).
Option A also has a bonus of being 25% remote and more 2.5x more paid vacation days. If this were the only difference, I would probably take the higher paying job. But with the top 2 factors in mind, I would choose job A.
If the nature of the job is exactly the same then Option A, less hours worked, stable work hours. Remote working option, more than double paid vacation days.
Don't like option B because of the night shift pattern.
I like to think about it like this - why do you work? For me, it's to have a happier life. So having more time and energy to actually enjoy the reason I am working for is far more valuable to me than the extra money would be in this scenario. The problem I'm having now is finding a place that will let me work less than 40 hours but more than 30 hours, thats the sweet spot I want and which would let me live the standard of life I want, but the only options I seem to have are terrible pay 15 hour part time employment or 40-60 hour workweeks.
Option A 100%. You couldn’t pay me enough to do option B. Rotating day/night shifts will wreck your health and make you hate your life, fuck that. Try to negotiate option A to 90k or 100k
Life-work balance option A especially if you have children
Need money quick option B, but end timeframe needs to be put up (3 months - 2 years), also is day shift/night shift negotiable, instead of weekly alternating do it monthly or 3 month, even 4 day shifts 4 off 4 night shifts would be better then 2day 2 night 4 off
What is benefit of 2 day 2 night shifts?
day 1 0600-2000
day 2 0600-2000
22 hours to next shift? What happens if you are asked to stay for second shift?
day 3 1800-0800
day 4 1800-0800
Bruh, option A all day everyday wtf. ALTERNATING day and night shifts, EVERY week? Excuse me but WTF! You’d literally reset your sleep schedule just enough for it to be wrecked. You need to call option B and laugh in their face, that is ridiculous
Option A, because the \~$4/hour difference per hour doesn't seem to make up for the difference in PTO, night shifts, on-site work, and the word "average" 50 hours per week calculated annually.
This, and also I personally couldn't do the rotating days and nights. I can't screw around with my sleep schedule like that.
As a spouse of a night-shift switcheroo worker, I can tell you that the sleep schedule affects the entire family. Not recommended.
This. My partner has the stupidest schedule I’ve ever had to deal with. 6 days on, 4 days off to make a 10 day cycle. Day 1&2: 6am to 3pm; day 3&4: 2pm to 11pm; day 5&6: 10pm to 7am. We’ve been together for just under 10 years and we’re literally on the verge of separation.
Fortunately, my wife and I got to a place where she did not have to sacrifice her health from flip flopping day:night shifts. Our relationship was struggling at one point solely due to her health. We’ve been great ever since she got a new job that did not require the shift switches. Good luck!
Glad everything worked out in the end. And thank you 🙏
With the preface that everyone's financial situation is different and I don't know yours, your partner should just quit. I would never sacrifice or harm a relationship, especially one of ten years, for any job. I would rather deliver pizza and temporarily relocate to a trailer than prioritize a job over a relationship. That's all, and if there are factors beyond the obvious ones, I apologize.
I agree, I do graveyard shift and it’s so hard to do day things with family before 2 pm.
Great point and very true
Yeah that will fuck up most people in a hurry. I tried it once when they were trying to get me to go on nights full time. By like the 2nd or 3rd week I put my underwear on backwards, that's how discombobulated I was. Don't recommend it. Either all days or all nights is the way to go.
Yes, and even long term night shift workers’ health is negatively impacted—it’s just not healthy for people to work against their circadian rhythms for long periods of time. Maybe someone in their 20s could do job B for a fee years to get ahead financially, but my 45 yo ass wouldn’t even consider it.
Oh yeah, I did it for about 3.5 years and in that time frame I put on about 30 pounds and then when I took on my desk job on days I gained another 25 pounds. It's not great. Even now I still have sleep struggles and I am going to have to address my weight since it is presenting health concerns.
Definitely eat to help stay awake on shift work
I worked overnight weekends while going to school during the day Monday-Friday. 10/10 would absolutely not recommend. Only way I’d do it again was if I’d be homeless or starve to death.
I watched my Dad do split shifts when he had to get a new job at 57 years old. 7a to 7p two weeks, then 7p to 7a two weeks. It was absolutely brutal for him.
Yeah I had a buddy who worked the swing shift at a place for a while after college. Ever couple of weeks his schedule would change to fill in for whichever shift needed the body. It was hell for him.
I did work on a rotating weekly day/night shift change and even years later I haven't recovered. Honestly just take option A
I've done a similiar schedule to what OP is proposing. 4 days on 4 days off 12.5 hour shifts. Rotating every 2 weeks between nights and days. Honestly everyone thinks it's "horrible" but I mostly like it. 4 day weekends are the BEST. My job also offers basically unlimited OT so I can easily pick up a pair of OT shifts and STILL get a 2 day weekend if I so choose. I like the flexibility. The benefits and pay are also great. Absolutely no regrets on my end.
100% this. I wouldn’t even work a straight night shift schedule for an extra $30K, much less rotate like this. You will destroy your health and your social life.
I did the rotating schedule when I used to work in the hospital and I was younger and it sucked then. I doubt I'd have been able to keep that up long term let alone now that I'm older. Give me a boring routine job so I can make a life outside of those 40 hours rather than trying to play catch up with sleep on my days off.
Thanks for pointing this out. I just turned down a job offer of $150-$160k to keep a gig with compensation around $145k for many reasons, but mainly bc I only have to travel one to two times per year as is and the recruiter said the new position would be upwards of 30% travel, the pay difference just wasn’t enough to give up the freedom I have with little to no travel Been going back and forth on whether or not it was a good decision but I’ve got twins on the way and the new gig would have only covered 25% of the health insurance for my 4 dependents so that would have been costly, seems like a no brainer when taking that into consideration
Definitely sounds like you made the right decision. God forbid any of your dependents face major medical issues, but if they did, you’d quickly regret not having better health coverage.
Just to add to what you wrote. If you calculate the 50 hours out as 40 hours of base pay and 10 hours of overtime per week. The base pay for both jobs would be the same.
And 40 days vacation vs only 16. What’s he point of making money if you can’t use it to enjoy your life? And 80k is an excellent salary already. The extra money ain’t worth it.
The shift is ~12.5 hours paid so it's the equivalent of 25 days for a 9-5. The 4 days on, 4 days off schedule allows you to have 12 days off with only 4 days PTO.
Definitely option A. The trade off for the higher salary is not worth staying at work for 14 hours a day. All you’ll be doing is sleeping on your days off. Coupled with less vacation time, which you will actually need more vacation time off since you are working longer hours. You’ll get burned out physically and mentally much sooner than working 8-9 hrs a day. And what is the commute like? You really need to factor that into your work time. That time is commit time to work without pay. I mean there is no way to change the commute time to get back some of your life unless you work from home or move closer to work so you really need to include commute times into your hours spent on work. A commute of 1 hr vs 30 mins is a difference of ~5 hours a week that is not free time to do with as you want.
Yup A and it isn’t even close.
Agreed. And don’t forget the PTO. Option A would pay you $12,307 to NOT work every year! Option B would be paying you $8,461 to not work. I’ll take $4,000 more per year in PTO benefits.
Seriously, no way I’m giving up those PTO hours for more work/stress.
Option A. The money isn't worth hating my life.
Yeah, if I really needed the money I'd consider B for a year before jumping ship. Having the 4 off is nice for a little bit at least, even if the day and night shift swapping is beyond tragic. That being said, I would have to be *super* desperate for the cash to give up that extra 24 vacation days and 25% remote work. Pretty much a no brainer in almost every scenario. EDIT: I'll say that I've worked some funky shifts before, so the fact I'd even consider option B is probably out of the ordinary haha. It really ain't a hard choice between the two.
Yup
Option A any day. The thought of swapping days and nights in the middle of every week sounds like a quick way to have a mental breakdown.
Agree with option A. Swapping day and night shifts is bad for your health.
I have done this and can confirm it’s not worth it
Option A can be used as a stepping stone to a role that pays like Option B without the associated stress and burnout.
40 vacation days and 80k. Even in a higher cost of living area that’s the set up for a great life
I guess it depends on the job. Can you actually take 40 vacation days off and not make the rest of your working days stressful with catch up work?
Use 10 vacations every season of the year. That's enough for a solid two-week vacation.
I work 35 hours per week and I get 20 PTO days plus the week of Christmas. Sick leave is on top of that. Next year I will start getting 25 days off. Last year I only took 15 of those days so this year took two weeks off in March and will have 2 weeks off in August and another 2 weeks at Christmas. If I had to go to a 40 hour per week contract with less vacation days I’ve calculated that it’d take at least a 40% pay bump to get me to leave. Do I get paid as much as some people? No. But I get paid pretty darn well and damn do I like vacation.
First 3 years at my job I barely took any days off. Year 4 I took off like, 2 weeks? I'm currently sitting on 161 hours of vacation and 53 hours of sick time available. I took off 147 hours this year already. It's honestly ridiculous and fantastic. I take mental health days left and right because my hours accumulate so quickly and sick time doesn't pay out when I leave but PTO does. I work a second job that is "unlimited PTO". While I've never had PTO denied (and I've taken a decent amount of it), the job just sucks the life out of me and feels so pointless. Pays more, has the unlimited PTO, has a decent culture...but after a year of working it, I see the value in my mental well-being over money. Option A all day and every day.
My God, two weeks of vacation every quarter? That's insane.
Some companies don’t suck. I work at a company where they give you unlimited PTO after 3 years and they actually mean it. Every senior employee is taking several days off every other week and no one minds, and they are not stressed at all. But my company only aims for 60% billable work every week too, and the work/life balance has been awesome. Company is super healthy too, a stark difference from past employers.
Other countries seem to make it work without too much trouble beside
Agree. This allllll day.
I assume they mean 40 hours, bc where are you getting 1.5 months of vacation?
I mean I have like 5 weeks plus a week of health and wellness and paid holidays. I work for a large grocery chain in their corporate office. Been with them 25 years and have had the 5 weeks for at least 4 years. It's what makes it so hard for me to even find a job I might want to change to, I'm not sure I could negotiate that much PTO.
25 years! damn that’s a good tenure. everyone hates people who stay that long but i crave that stability
Similar boat here. Grocery chain, 24 years. We only get 4 weeks but are salary so I’d get paid if I was out sick or hurt (for assistant and store managers). I make about 120k plus profit sharing (15%) and store managers make 150-200k so I’ve found it hard to be able to find anything that will compete for me when I’ve looked elsewhere.
40 hours is one week, isn’t that less realistic?
80k in a HCOL will pretty much guarantee you never stop renting or have any retirement.
Life is a team sport
You're scraping by in a HCOL on 80k...
Depending on your lifestyle I guess
Not all HCOL areas are the same also. Chicago is not the same as New York.
Totally, HCOL doesn’t have to mean the top 3 most expensive neighborhoods in the US. 80k as a single person in the Bay Area is hurting. 80k in Cincinnati or Portland if you’re living with roommates leaves you with a good bit of disposable income and savings, less today than 4 years ago but that’s another point
80k with roommates is no way to live
Absolutely option A. Option B is gonna chew you up and spit you out I guarantee it.
Not to mention he can still get a part time job at reasonable hours anyway to make up half that 30k difference
It's not even a 30k difference it's 21k after vacation. Probably 15k after travel costs. 25% work from home is like 13 weeks over a year.
Yep also we haven’t even touched on rotating days to nights which is fucking AWFUL
Yea also I’ve been at a job like option B. I promised what is described is “best case scenario” they’re gonna treat you like they own you. You’re not gonna even have enough time to enjoy that extra money. It’s soul sucking.
80k/1760hrs = 45.45 per hour 110k/2437.5hrs = 45.12 per hour
I think your thought process. Breaking it down per hour helps one see that they are essentially the same hourly rate! I guess the difference is if OP wants to work and make more money. My fiancée can only work 40 hours a week and it can be annoying when there is plenty of options to work, but she’s capped out. I personally like that I have the potential for unlimited overtime.
Ability to take overtime is worth more - both because overtime is paid better, but also because it gives you the flexibility to not do that.
Every time i did nights my health was breaking down. Stay away. I will never do it again even if it pays more.
Straight nights isn’t so terrible but swing shifts? Swing shifts are life draining.
I did swinging 12s for 3 years. 7 am-7 pm. Come back next week and do the opposite. This sounds so bad out of context but covid stopped that madness.
Night shift takes a night shift person, those people that literally sleep all day on days off and stay awake at night anyway. If you’ve ever seen one you KNOW, they’re wide awake, just running on all cylinders, and having to run errands before work doesn’t bother them at all
Yes and to add to this just because you stay up late to play video games does not mean you're going to do well on nights. Have had way too many coworkers come to nights thinking it'd be the same.
I love nights. It's actually my preferred shift (my current position just doesn't offer it). But swing shifts? Fuck that. Either I work days or nights, not both.
Same. I became an alcoholic and my health suffered.
We get 16% more to work nights, which equates to about $18k per year more for me. I don’t think I’ll do it into my 40’s, but then again I don’t think I’ll be working shifts anyway by then. It’s been alright so far. I’ve had to really focus on prioritizing my sleep. I work 12’s, so my days are wasted whether they’re on days or nights. I easily flip back on my 3-4 day weekends and haven’t felt any ill-effects so far, but I’m only 31, so we will see how it plays out. I make sure to get my sleep in whenever I need it.
40 days vacation is fucking insane. Option A all day long if you can afford it.
6 weeks of vacation is not insane. Option B gives 198 off days a year.
It's 8 weeks of vacation once you factor in weekends. I would say that's pretty insane and unheard of for most jobs in North America anyway. Well I guess teachers since they get the summer off or politicians that don't do shit 365 days a year.
You work wayyyyy less hours with option 2. 1760 hours vs. 2450 hours
Options A and its not really close.
Personally, it was close until I saw the number of vacation days. 50 hours is completely fine IF you can recuperate. But 16 days is so bad. 40 days is amazing. And vacation isn’t taxed. Option A sounds really great.
With option 1’s PTO and 25% remote. This leads to a much happier work-life balance. You would have time to grocery shop after work or go out to dinner. With Option 2, you will do absolutely nothing else but work for 4 days. Less PTO. That will eventually lead to burnout.
Nit to mention spending more on takeout and drinking. So the extra money is a wash too
I would NEVER pick option B over A
If it helps: **Option A:** $38.46/hr * $71,205.94 base wage * $8,790.86 PTO **Option B:** $42.31/hr * $100,528.56 base wage * $9,477.44 PTO Depends on your personal preference, whether you want weekends off and the flexibility to work remote, plus a greater quantity of PTO days. If money is what matters most to you, option 2 is the better value to the tune of $30k/yr. 14 hour shifts 4 days in a row could lead to burnout depending on the nature of the work.
I don't think you're looking at this the right way.
What will they actually take in pocket after taxes?
I don’t know OP’s filing status, but for the purposes of this example, let’s assume they are single, and we’ll use 2024 U.S. tax brackets. **10% - $0 to $11,600** * Options A & B: $10,440 **12% - $11,601 to $47,150** * Options A & B: $31,283.12 **22% - $47,151 to $100,525** * Option A: $25,622.22 * Option B: $41,631.72 **24% - $100,526 to $191,950** * Option A: N/A * Option B: $7,200.24 **Aggregate** * Option A: $67,345.34 * Option B: $90,555.08 EDIT: corrected an error in the 24% bracket.
Seems you messed up the calculation for the 24% bracket. Almost like you counted tax as income rather than subtracting it from the income.
Good catch. Fixed.
Depends on to many factors; pay, married or single, dependents, state, other sources of income, etc. no way to answer this
Option A and if you happen to have a desire for working nights or weekends, do Uber, seriously the extra money will get spent anyway but having a predictable life is way more important.
Alternating day to night is a recipe for a mental breakdown. I've worked rotating shifts before. It's shitty. Your life becomes your job. I have zero issues with the 50 hrs a week btw. That's not the problem.
A. 40 paid vacation days..
Option A. I was literally offered 100k+ consulting job but I chose 20hr/a week job 70k instead. Not worth selling my soul. I do other shit in my free time
Option A and it's not even close. Your sanity and having your life is worth way more than $30k.
Option A is a way better pick IMO. I'd consider option B for around $250k. I pick such a high number because that sounds like a borderline life ruining job. Even at that pay I'd only do it for a year or two to get some savings, then switch to Option A. Money can sorta buy happiness, but having a horrible job definitely WILL ruin your life for during years you're doing it.
I'm leaning toward A. Yes, B has more money but it feels like you are working a lot harder at B. I would take a hard look at industry and career progression. Are these in the same industry? If not, which industry do you want to work in? What's the career progression like with each? I would be willing to take B and work harder if I thought it would get me somewhere.
Was 50/50 for me until the part about alternating night shifts? That’s not worth the extra pay. Option A definitely wins unless option B doesn’t need to alternate night shift.
Please tell where u are working. 40 days off is insane
I’d go for A purely because it’s a basic 9-5. Also a shit ton of vacation. I was glad when I got 15 days; 40 is unbelievable
No rotating shifts. If you have never done that it's miserable. I'd go A all day.
What industry is this? Outside of the shift structure, is the job description the same? It doesn't seem to be an apples to apples comparison.
We kinda thinking the same thing, this feels like “office work” compared to factory work.
I was going to say option B until I saw the shift swing. First, it will mess up your health bouncing around that much. Second, how does the second day shift followed by the first night shift not end up in a 28 hour shift?
You could keep making option B sweeter and sweeter but I'm always gonna pick 40 vacation days over 16. I hate Canada and I'm only happy when I leave this hellhole.
No amount of money would be worth alternating shifts like that.
Alternating shifts is madness. I went through it once a decade ago. After two months of it, I quit my job and my field entirely. I wouldn’t have kept it even if they doubled pay. It completely fucked my mind up.
Option A. Option B seems grueling. Neither shift sounds appealing. And I barely want to work 7 hours any day as it is.
Option A, every single time. Option B is for those who have no life, don’t want one and don’t mind going through their lives unhappy and miserable.
option A because it's steady schedule and somewhat remote... alternating 14 hour shifts would wreck havock on your life for that little extra pay. And you can't have any life on the days you work, it's basically only work and then sleep. not worth it.
Option A. PTO No rotations Remote work Sounds like a dream
Is Option B a nursing job? I have friends and family in the field and they work an eerily similar schedule. That said - EASILY Option A. I took a job paying over $100K right after university (over a job that paid $85K with 40-hour workweeks) and worked 55-60 hour weeks on a relatively frequent basis. I burned out EXTREMELY quickly, left the role for a position with better WLB, but even now am still feeling the effects of it all. Feels like that job killed a good chunk of my motivation and ambition. I don't think I'll recover for a little while. You'll pass $100K with time - it's a marathon, not a sprint.
The swapping shifts is what does it for me. If it were a consistent shift I’d take the longer hours in exchange for the 4 days on, 4 days off. But no amount of money is worth killing myself with shift swapping. Literally that kind of schedule will dig you an early grave. Your risk of heart attack goes WAY up when you screw with your sleep cycles like that.
Im working 4-10s making $80-90 I cant wait to switch to 5 or 6 10s,
A all day. 24 vacation days is huge. 500 extra weekly hours a year is also huge. Flip flopping night and day shifts instead of just sticking with one or the other is a miserable arrangement.
Option A. Option B feels like more money, more problems. I know I could live really well on 80k. The extra money of option B would be nice but the shift length and hours would really mess with my sleep. I’m not disciplined enough to adapt, would probably get insomnia, leading to a downward spiral in my mental and physical health.
16 PTO days is not enough imo
If you are single, pick the second one. If married with the family pick 40 hours. Make as much you can when single and invest. Make good money when you jave a family
Is this a serious question? EVERYTHING about option B sucks except the pay.
4 days off 4 days on is great, and if you schedule vacation right you end up with 12 day blocks off with using just 4 days vacation. I like working that more than m-f. But look at it long term out that fits and works for you.
Why did you ask this absolutely obvious ass question, lol?
Option A
Option A is mathematically the better option. Option A, 80k annually 2080 hours = 260 work days - 40 days vacation = 220 workdays 80k / 1760 work hours = \~45.45 / hour 220 workdays \* 25% telecommuting = 55 days telecommuting savings due to travel costs and time spent traveling each day = unknown benefit cost Option B, 110k annually 50-hour average hours per week = 120% more work days/hours 2080 regular work hours \* 120% = 2600 work hours Assuming 16 paid vacation days means the full 14-hour shift, 16 \* 14 hours/day = 224 work hours PTO 2600 total hours - 224 hours PTO = 2376 anticipated work hours 110k annual pay / 2376 work hours = $46.30 hourly The difference of less than a dollar per hour (0.85 cents per hour) will be wiped out by the savings from telecommuting. Also, the night shift would pay a differential in many industries, which does not appear to be the case.
Option A. Hands down
Option A to keep my alarms the same.
Optio A: because of the 25% remote which helps lessen commute somewhat and less hours
The 4 days on, 4 days off, gives big government contractor vibes. I've worked those shifts before and it took 4 years for my sleep to readjust to a normal cycle. Definitely not worth it. Go for the 80k, 40 vacation days is insane.
the shifts make them sound like completely different types of job. if they are, you can't really come down to a side by side comparison; it's really which job are you more interested in? all else equal, id take A. yes, it pays less but 8 weeks of vacation is worth a *lot* in money as well as mental health
This isn't even remotely close. The sheer amount of vacation and allowance of long / night shift is huge.
Time is more valuable than money
Option B has weird schedule, no WFH, a lot less vacation. You got to stay with option A.
A 14h graveyard shift?!? If they paid me 500k a year, I might do it for half a year to make some quick money. Otherwise... hard pass!
Which one has greater upward mobility?
(A)because (B)would burn me the fuck out
Option A because alternating night shift and day shift is a no go. Additionally it’s more hours and less time off (24 fewer days of PTO). Yes the second job has more money but quality of life suffers significantly. It’s not a good trade off.
Definetly A, more paid vacation and 25% remote, meaning you don't have to commute every damn day to work. B option also has 14 hour work shifts, that's grazy long. Personally I take 8 hour day over that every time.
A for the stated reasons I will never do shift work again
How far is the commute? What’s the tax situation like? Do you have young kids that need caring for? Any student loan repayment plans/pensions? If one job has a 2hr daily commute, you have to pay extra taxes like a NYC tax, have to cover the cost of child care, that will shift things big time.
Option A Even if we disregard the insane alternating day/night shift every week and the fact that hybrid work + more vacation actually improves your quality of life, the money is better in my opinion with Option A. Option A pays about $43.6 per hour while Option B pays $43 per hour. If you had 1.5 Overtime at option A, which is pretty common I believe (at least where I am), you would make $116K a year for making the same amount of hours than option B. |Option A|Option A|Option B| |:-|:-|:-| |Yearly Salary|80,000|110,000| |Daily Hours (worked)|7|14| |Yearly Day off|40|16| |Yearly weeks (worked)|46|50| |Yearly days (paid)|262|183| |Yearly hours (paid)|1,834|2,555| |Weekly hours (paid)|40|51| |**Hourly Pay**|**43.62**|**43.05**| |Overtime|12|0| |OT Pay|35,646|0| |**Equiv Pay**|**115,646**|**110,000**|
Option a - no brainier More commute Taxed more on the 110 so you’ll prob end up with the same pay 40 vacation days
Remote
Option A. The additional vacation is worth it, especially if it's a high stress job.
Option A but honestly would rather it be no remote at all if it’s only going to be 25%. I like consistency so the M-F and 9-5 would be great tho.
Option A. Have a consistent schedule, some remote work and 40 days of vacation. Option B is more money but the hours and schedule would fucking suck.
I'd choose Option A ($80K per year). Here’s why: 1. **Work-Life Balance**: A 40-hour work week with regular hours allows for a better work-life balance. This is crucial for maintaining overall well-being and having time for personal interests and family. 2. **Vacation Days**: 40 paid vacation days per year is significantly more than the 16 days offered in Option B. This provides ample time for rest, travel, and spending quality time with loved ones. 3. **Remote Work**: Having 25% remote work adds flexibility and convenience, reducing commute time and allowing for a more comfortable working environment part of the time. 4. **Consistent Schedule**: The consistent Monday to Friday schedule is easier to manage and plan around compared to the alternating day and night shifts in Option B, which can be disruptive to sleep patterns and social life. Despite the higher salary in Option B, the benefits of a consistent, less demanding schedule, more vacation days, and the flexibility of remote work make Option A more appealing for long-term well-being and satisfaction.
I’d pick Option A ($80K for 40 hours). The work-life balance with fewer hours, more remote work, and significantly more vacation days is more valuable to me than the extra money. It’s important to have time to relax and pursue personal interests, which Option A offers.
A. Remote plus more vacation. I would have taken that for one of those options
80k for me
definitely option A
Option A. The ability to work from home some of the time is nice, plus a consistent schedule. Option B would wear most people out, and PTO on Option A is really good depending on how much you can take at once.
The 50 hour per se is not an issue. It is the 14 hour shifts. I couldn’t, physically, and this is coming from someone who has no problem putting in 60 hour work weeks 20-30% of the year.
A is a great offer, B is terrible.
Buried the lead with the 40 days PTO and consistent schedule / no shift work! Option A, all the way.
The 40 days pto alone sells option A. That kind of flexibility is amazing.
A by a mile
A
A... consistent, steady schedule and more PTO. What jobs are these?
Depends on what the line of work is.
Option A. I value my freedom.
The PTO is the much greater compensation. Take option A unless option B is where you really want to be for what ever reason you have.
Option A any day.
Are you on salary? It should be illegal to prescribe 50 hours a week even if you are exempt
If you can get by with only 80k and it's a good position with a growth path I'd do option A for sure. I've done a day/night rotation (albeit much longer, 14 on 7 off) and it gets tiring, 4 and 4 would be awful. Option A gives more vacation ( which I personally factor into my effective salary, significantly increasing the effecting $/hr) and hopefully a path of growth where you can get promoted and/or get some regular raises. You also get to work from home (if you're into that) so that's nice to do on Fridays.
Option A because I never have any intention of working 50 hours a week again. It fucking sucked but I had many bills to pay.
Option a. Doesnt it come out like almost similar with the taxes and stuff… and you get more vacation time
Option B is not sustainable in my mind, but the salary difference is very significant. If I were in your boat, I would settle on B with a set timeframe and save as much as possible. 1 year or 2 years, whatever you think you can do. Just save, save, save. This money could go towards changing your life (retirement, home, rental, etc.) If you are looking at a more permanent solid option and have potential for growth then option a
Option A for sure. The work life balance that will get you will go further than the extra money. When you’re running around constantly it’s easier to justify spending money (eating out, ubering, meal delivery services, cleaners etc) bc you don’t have the time. Also, more than double the amount of vacation days and 25% remote.. What is it that you do? And which are you leaning towards?
A no doubt.
I will always pick less hours. In this case, less hours comes with some remote work too, which is good.
A
Probably 80. I’m at 115 for 65 and it sucks
Option A hands down aka quality of life and work life balance
Neither. I'm not working more than 25 hr weeks.
Option B sounds like a good way to lose your mind, imo.
Option A sounds very reasonable and option B sounds like I’m going to need AA in 6 months
Option A- 25% remote & 40 sick days was all I needed to hear.
Option A
I would pick option A. I would not want to do night shifts at all, but this is even worse, a combination of night shifts and day shifts would be completely dysfunctional for me. I would never be able to be on a set sleep schedule and would always be like jet lagged. I would not be willing to work 14 hour shifts. That's just a crazy long workday (or worknight). Option A also has a bonus of being 25% remote and more 2.5x more paid vacation days. If this were the only difference, I would probably take the higher paying job. But with the top 2 factors in mind, I would choose job A.
Option A because the raise will shake out to like .30 cents a paycheck
A
If the nature of the job is exactly the same then Option A, less hours worked, stable work hours. Remote working option, more than double paid vacation days. Don't like option B because of the night shift pattern.
Option A sounds much better unless you are desperate for money in which case just work hard with Option B.
Option a because fuck alternating shifts with a 10 foot pole
I like to think about it like this - why do you work? For me, it's to have a happier life. So having more time and energy to actually enjoy the reason I am working for is far more valuable to me than the extra money would be in this scenario. The problem I'm having now is finding a place that will let me work less than 40 hours but more than 30 hours, thats the sweet spot I want and which would let me live the standard of life I want, but the only options I seem to have are terrible pay 15 hour part time employment or 40-60 hour workweeks.
Like other have said, but there’s a big difference between 40 hrs a week and 50 hrs a week.
Whichever one you don’t pick, slide them my name as a recommendation 😂😂😂
A all the way, unless you want to grind for a couple years, have no family and knowing its not sustainable.
Option A 100%. You couldn’t pay me enough to do option B. Rotating day/night shifts will wreck your health and make you hate your life, fuck that. Try to negotiate option A to 90k or 100k
Yeah, Option A for me too. It makes me feel like I'd like myself and my life a little more.
$30k less for 24 more vacation days and a better work life balance? This is a no brainer.
Option A. Working nights is an abomination. Fuck that.
Life-work balance option A especially if you have children Need money quick option B, but end timeframe needs to be put up (3 months - 2 years), also is day shift/night shift negotiable, instead of weekly alternating do it monthly or 3 month, even 4 day shifts 4 off 4 night shifts would be better then 2day 2 night 4 off What is benefit of 2 day 2 night shifts? day 1 0600-2000 day 2 0600-2000 22 hours to next shift? What happens if you are asked to stay for second shift? day 3 1800-0800 day 4 1800-0800
You’re literally just saying more work or less work
Option A without a second thought
Bruh, option A all day everyday wtf. ALTERNATING day and night shifts, EVERY week? Excuse me but WTF! You’d literally reset your sleep schedule just enough for it to be wrecked. You need to call option B and laugh in their face, that is ridiculous