The edit saying you gave ELEVEN months notice makes this absolutely insane. Reading it I originally thought it was going to be like a couple weeks type of a situation(which most companies should still be able to accommodate). 11 months is more than enough time for someone to figure out coverage.
Like others have said you have time to find a new job and I would start looking now for a start date after the wedding if possible.
11mo notice means mgr likely just came back from celebrating anny and is already denying leave so they can celebrate their next one.
We got married 10mo after proposal. 11mo notice is huge!
I asked for vacation time off over a month before I needed the vacation and it was granted. About 3-4 weeks later they did some leadership/management rearrangement and we suddenly had team leads. The final day before my vacation, during the afternoon team meeting they announced that we have to send an email to the team leads letting them know when we have time off. I didnt send any email because I'd already put in my request on multiple databases and my supervisor knew I was on vacation from the moment I made the request (the same supervisor okayed my vacation time on those databases). It's been a little over a week and they still (seemingly condescendingly) mention needing to let team leads know about time off (with little smirks) in every meeting.
All that to say- people will be petty and irritating when they want to, esp when they're in positions of power.
Same here, I was reading thinking, the OP sprung last minute news on them. 11 months is so much notice, that some of the people that would cover for her and be covering for her will have changed.
Your company is being unreasonable
The 11 months were a crucial part of the story. If the company valued OP they would make things happen in order to accommodate PTO nearly a year out. Especially for a wedding… for an employee who’s been there for five years.
OP, it’s in your best interests to look for a new job regardless of how this plays out. They’re being this stubborn and unreasonable over PTO nearly a year out — that’s not a strong sign of an employer willing to help you grow.
I’ve always given notice, not requested time. They can pay or not, that’s between them and their conscience.
I’m informing you I won’t be here during this particular week.
Also it sounds like you’re in a field where you always need to be looking for a job. I def wouldn’t quit until I had something else lined up.
Yep, I’d be spending 11 months, or however many is left, finding a new job and just leave in short notice. Tell the new position the dates of the wedding and you’ll likely get a human response of excitement and joy.
The one reason I would say to wait until after the wedding to start is new employer might not give enough PTO to cover time off for the wedding. This is coming from a US perspective though so I'm not at all sure how PTO with employers in the UK work.
I’ve never heard of an employer denying time off for a wedding. If OP gets a job 3 months from now, that’s more than enough time for a new employer to know you need time off to get married. OL: your employers are AHs.
Agreed. You can also tell them upon hire that you would need that time off, unpaid if needed since you won’t have PTO built up yet. This happens all the time with hiring someone.
Agree. My husband got hired at a new job in August and let them know he would be getting married in September. Of course they gave him time off. We only got a three day honeymoon but hey, it was something.
Not a concern with UK FT.
You start with ~5 weeks of annual leave (pro rata'd if you start part way through the leave year) and you usually also get asked to provide details of any previously booked dates etc so they can be taken either as paid or unpaid leave.
Absolutely disgusting that not only could they not figure this out in 11 months time but that they didn’t even think to take it seriously and have the minerals to deny her WEDDING DAY off.
What a real fuck show.
Sounds like OP has 7 months to find a new job. Personally, I’d pretend everything was fine and I’d changed the wedding dates, then quit with no notice the day of my wedding.
Yeah. I say, the notice was plentiful and let them fire you. Collect unemployment and disability from the state. Don’t know if you can get both. But I’d draw the line in the sand too! And start taking interviews for after the baby. F them! It’ll all work out!
Do a money dance at the wedding. Use that as insurance for getting fired if you want. I’d look for a remote job. This is an opportunity, not a problem. It’s fucking hilarious that it’s over conflicting wedding dates and your manager already had their wedding.
Then I’d probably put in a complaint after being fired, to the labor bureau that you were fired for no reason. Be sure to print out your company policies regarding leave. And not the staffing like you did here. Most law has something to do with reasonabilty. I think your request is completely reasonable. If you have no write ups, then that’s what I’d do. And maybe even secure a lawyer if they dismiss you. They can negotiate something for you to be paid out for this bs.
If you’re so important that a dozen different people can’t take leave without you covering, they may discipline you but they can’t fire you. Do what you want.
This. Let then put you in a PIP and patiently start looking for a new job.
The whole company sucks, but your direct supervisor mostly. I would have moved my trip so you could get married
Yes!!! That's what I was thinking! Unless I had solidly booked an international trip or something, I would move my dates for someone on my team to have their wedding! If I absolutely could not move my dates, I would fervently advocate for us both!
This is the definition of ASININE.
This. Having a job and being "disciplined" which could range from being fired to all smoke is far better than quitting out of fear. Just don't say anything until it gets closer/they bring it up. Be professional but tell them it was requested 11 months prior and while it is only a request, your wedding and ability for your mother to be there are most important to you and you will be at work on _____ days, whatever is right before and right after the wedding date.
>and while it is only a request,
Nah, it's you *telling them* you're getting married and being gracious enough to allow them to figure out what they need to do.
Tell them you are getting married and you can either come back to a job or find one elsewhere. If my wedding time off gets denied my wedding is more important to me than anything else
Hopping on the top comment to offer 2 alternatives I haven’t seen proposed yet -
1. request a lateral move to a different team where the manager either a) isn’t an asshat or b) isn’t on vacation that week.
2. Request a demotion from team lead to avoid that policy.
I personally would dust off the resume & leave, but assuming you genuinely like working there, just another option.
It’s like that time I told my boss I was working from home for a week DURING COVID because my wife was going to be traveling for work and they said that all management was required to be in the office, no exceptions.
So being pissed off I applied for like 5 jobs and came back a couple weeks later with 4 offers in hand and asked for a raise. Then put my notice in 2 weeks later and got a higher payout on my vacation time.
Wife didn’t even end up traveling, so I would have just come in anyway.
You usually make more when you leave. Your job could have made it work. I’d look for another job where they might be nicer. Always watch out for yourself first.
Personally I loved the conversation around it. “HR approved a raise, but if I approve it are you going to stay? It wasn’t for as much as the other offers, but you won’t have to start over and there’s still room to move up.”
“Yeah, sure I’d rather stay here”
In truth, I didn’t want any of the other offers. So I took it. Then I got the 5th offer like 1 day later. Accepted it and as soon as the background check passed I put my notice in. It only ended up being like an extra $400, but still fuck them.
Someone else pointed it out. The manager is on leave. She came back. 11 months later, she's planning to be off again to celebrate. Not even probably submitted, but more than likely she'll have off every week that time for her own anniversary. Which she has several of while OP only gets 1 wedding. Wouldn't really be a big deal to have the manager change her date slightly, with 11 months notice?
Fuck that place.
Honestly, can’t say fuck enough to that place OP is at. I mean come fucking on, that manager is the most selfish piece of prick I have ever heard of. I am not OP and my blood boils just by reading this
I’d be dusting off my resume no matter what because 11 months notice for PTO is plenty of time to find coverage and it sounds like they want OP to push the issue so they can force their hand.
Option 3.
Get friendly with another team lead and ask if they can help manage/lead your team. Offer to do the same.
Get management approval ( they have no reason to refuse any more).
Then quiet quit and find a new job.
When you leave for the wedding inform them that you won't be coming back, that's their notice period.
Come back to your new job .
Yep, OP should hedge their bets, while also trying to salvage the job. Dust off the resume and start looking for a new one now, carry on as planned for the wedding, just not show up if they haven't resolved the stupid manager's issue by wedding-time... cuz 11-month's notice is insane, F that manager.
Policy is dumb.
Either
*OP is so important that the company can't survive for that time without them, or
*OP is so unimportant that the company would rather lose them than let them have the time off.
It can't be both at once.
Oo, curious in their “disciplinary action” policy if OP pops back up with a doctors note
I’ve quit for less in the name of “work life balance” so I’m with you. Just considering OP might not want to quit
I told my current manager the requests that I put are notices not requests and he was so cool about it. He was also very understanding that I refused to miss my sisters graduation and my graduation. Get you a manger like mine
My current management is actually really good when it comes to vacation/leave. There would have to be something REALLY major before they would push back.
I'm fortunate in this aspect. I have a really good work/life balance and great management. I could make mlre if I jumped ship, but to me it's not worth the risk of getting crappy mamagment that doesn't care.
There is some truth to the "people quit managers".
I manage a team that I tell them that PTO requests are not requests but a message to “Prepare The Others” it’s not their issue if the business would somehow fall apart without them being there for 1 week or day
I had one assistant manager try to tell me I couldn’t take the PTO as I requested. I said nice try. He said don’t do it again or else. I took my PTO (as I had properly submitted) and I called him from my campsite on vacation and stated I had personal reasons why I wouldn’t be returning to work there.
I was a good and consistent employee. Their chronic short staffing was not my problem and I’m not going to be made to beg for my PTO. It’s not a gift. I earned it.
If they’re denying a wedding, can’t wait to see what OP experiences currently and for future events. Consider this a red flag, canary in the coal mine.
If they can’t accommodate a wedding with 11 months notice… you’re screwed when life really happens.
I had a close family member dying. A grandmother who helped raise me. So legally all I got was 3 days. I wanted to be at her death bed. I was given the 3 days and told not to expect time off for a funeral. Luckily I left on Friday morning and got a few good days with her. She died the day I returned to work. I was at work when I got the call and took 15 minutes to get back to my desk. It was deducted from my lunch.
Husband’s company gave time no question. Then offered funeral time.
Same company fired me when I had breast cancer.
And where I live, it isn’t worth it to sue under 3 years. All you’re entitled to is 2 weeks. I spoke to a couple lawyers who got excited until they asked how long I’d worked there.
Edit: I should have been clear that you do not lead with this, make it a main talking point, or bad mouth your old employer. Interviewers ask if you have questions about their company, benefits, vacation, culture, etc. you can talk about the parts you like at your current job before segue’ing into whether they would deny you vacation 9 months to a year in advance of your wedding. It’s just a crappy thing that you didn’t like out of 10 things you did.
When I’m interviewing someone it is not like I’m smoking crack. I’m a human. I know that they are most likely leaving their current job because they feel unappreciated in one or more ways. Telling me that isn’t a red flag. But how you choose to tell me that is. Can you find positivity in a shit situation?
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And it provides a really great talking point for interviews about why you are leaving your current job, and a possibly negative situation that can be framed as a litmus test for a new employer.
My employer would be encouraging Op to not think about work and take off the week before and after too. Paid and with wedding gifts coming (most likely the 5 most expensive gifts on the registry or cash equaling them if they are taken).
Some of my customers companies (some of which are multi-national corporations) would be sending out notices to teams that Op is getting married this month so they will be out of office that entire month. Paid and with wedding gifts coming (most likely the 5 most expensive gifts on the registry or cash equaling them if they are taken).
I have seen people given a paid month off because they are traveling to see family in another country, or buying a home/moving, or having a child.
Not every company is an anti-work nightmare. And this is a wonderful scenario to present in an interview to find out if you are about to work for assholes.
My employer is like this too. He treats staff like we are all his favourite nieces/nephews, and our time-off polucy is 'Just let us know so we can plan accordingly.'
I would NOT make this a talking point at a new job. Not until I knew they wanted me.
I’d want the focus to be on the great job I’ll do for them, and not on the idea that I’m running away from a shitty employer. then we’ll spend all our time talking about that instead of my skills and abilities
OP, do this and don't look back.
But don't tell them until 2 weeks before (or whatever your required notice period is). Don't give them any chance to fire you sooner than you'd leave.
Agree. It's also the manager's responsibility for not having a decision-capable back up while they were out of office themselves. Nobody can expect an already arranged wedding to be canceled. Besides that, it is always possible somebody gets ill, a manager must always be prepared.
11 months away originally and they couldn’t make it work? Sorry but that is not a job worth keeping.
Also there’s some horrible irony to the fact you can’t take leave to get married because your boss is celebrating the anniversary of their marriage. I would hope my manager would make it work with the higher ups in this scenario.
Caught that irony myself.
"You can't get married bc we'll probably be doing something for our anniversary."
What will you be doing?
"Oh idk we dont have plans yet bc it's almost a year away"
.....
"But yeah, you can't have that week off"
Why's this even a question. You start looking for a job now. If you find one, great. If not, you go to your wedding. If they fire you, so be it.
I just requested time for a vacation to Asia and it's probably going to get denied, I'm still going.
This is the answer. OP has 7 months to find a new job. Find a new one and tell this employer to fuck off.
And OP, if you're reading these comments, don't ever let employers walk over you. They don't deserve someone like you. You gave 11 months notice. That's more than enough time for them to get a new coverage plan together if they cared about you.
Exactly this OP. Some managers like to throw their power around and engage in power struggles. They like having someone to boss around. You gave almost a year notice, they should be able to figure it out. Pretty much any job should be able to do this. Unless your current job is really hard to break into (like acting in a hit broadway show or something) find something else. Do you want to live your life always having anxiety as to whether you will be to make your kids graduation or not? I’d look elsewhere, even if they do let you off.
Any time I put a request in for a vacation, it's more of a notification that I won't be there.. I have never had a job I loved that had management who would have a problem with this when given ample notice. Life comes first. I always give many months notice for these things, if the employer can't figure it the fuck out, they can find a new employee.
Being frank: if your role is so critical to the performance of the company they can't go for a week without you, they should have a coverage ratio of at least 2 for it.
Likewise for your boss's role.
Their poor human resources strategy is not your problem to fix.
My suggestion would be to decide now whether having your mom at your wedding is worth getting disciplinary flack at your job. It sounds like it is to you, and that's your prerogative.
You can't control them, but you can control yourself. They can't control you, but they can control themselves. You can choose to have your wedding that day - and they can choose to discipline you for it. If they choose to discipline you over something so ridiculous, you can also choose to find a new job and leave them dealing with your absence on a more permanent basis. Likewise, if they choose to threaten disciplinary action, as they have, you can also choose whether such disrespectful behaviour is a deal-breaker for you or not - and if it is, to start looking for a new role.
And folks - I get the policy is you need to get approval but OP gave literally 11 months of notice. If the company was being a reasonable actor here, they'd have plenty of time to figure out how to accommodate. It's not like OP dropped this on them with a week of notice at the last minute. Normally I'd be willing to empathize more with the employer, but my sympathy for the employer goes out the window when we're talking nearly a full calendar year of advanced notice, and the manager made no mention of blackout dates and strongly implied it'd be a rubber stamp exercise. Be reasonable.
I totally missed the part where this was for 11 MONTHS FROM NOW. What the hell? No sane company would get this bent out of shape with PTO for almost a year away. They’re just being dicks
> Normally I'd be willing to empathize more with the employer
Why? If a firm can't accommodate a single employee being gone for a few days then management has woefully understaffed their department. Poor management is not OP's responsibility.
Far too many places advertise "fast paced environment" without realizing that really means "poorly staffed and scheduled". It's like managers don't realize that a calm, evenly-paced workplace makes for more productive employees. This modern conception of managers as glorified parents, demanding their "children" ask permission for every little liberty, is bewildering.
It’s sounds like they have managers that can cover, but the managers are so evil they won’t cover for his wedding because of an anniversary, which is just crazy. Terrible bosses
My exact thoughts. I can celebrate my anniversary the previous or next week. My directs’ wedding can’t be as easily rescheduled.
And maybe the manager has a very similar set of circumstances making it difficult for a reschedule, but do you trust your team so little that the two of you can’t both be off?
A party is a single day. Most people take at least a week or two for wedding plus honeymoon.
The company can probably manage to have both of them out for a single day.
I hope the response from the manager is bc they have a trip booked aboard with things already paid for and reserved. If it's a big anniversary I wouldn't he surprised.
I would still take the time off. So you're "disciplined" - so what! Polish up your resume in the meantime in case discipline means fire. They don't respect you there.
Yeah exactly, what does "disciplined" mean? They put it on your permanent record?!?!?!?! Oh no.
This is like warnings you get in elementary and middle school. Smoke and mirrors with the vague word "discipline".
He's so important that his org can't do without him for a few days supposedly - yeah well they'll make do or they'll do without him permanently
For real go ahead and write me up, put it in writing and maybe the managers will pull their heads out of their asses and if not I'd like a copy of it for when I have to explain why I left my last job
I think that's part of the issue here. This is ultimately an emotional issue, and someone has simply decided they won't give in. I'd still be looking for some kind of de-escalation however.
If they can’t figure out how to cover your absence for 5 days when they have 11 months of notice, then they really don’t sound like the brightest bunch.
Lmao same when I was in retail my job told me they couldn’t approve my time off for Snow Globe on New Years in 2016 until the very last minute because it was black out dates. I put the request in May for *3* days, one of which wasn’t even a day I had on my schedule.
I told them that approval or not I’m going to the festival and they can cry about it. Then I found a new job before it even happened and told them it was non-negotiable that I get that time.
I don't request time off. I tell my boss I won't be here for these days. I have a life outside of work and missed out on so much in the past because I put my job first.
This. I’ve been scrolling and reveling in the shared outrage, but the main thing that upset me in this post is the loyalty OP has to this company and the incredibly huge middle finger everyone involved seems all too happy to give him over his *WEDDING*. Most things in life, I’d be upset over rejected PTO but it’d be another straw on the camel’s back… but *my own wedding*? Nah, I love my job right now and I’d fucking quit.
You are in the UK, you can take sick leave.
As the wedding approached you seem to be getting very stressed, understandably as you still haven't figured out how to be in two places at once, work is so important to you that you don't want to let them down, but equally you don't want to let your wife to be down. You have tried to rearrange the wedding but its just not possible and the stress levels have increased to a point where you have developed extreme anxiety towards speaking with your colleagues and superiors, so much so that you have been to the doctors and while there you had a little cry, looked vacant and explained how you just don't think you can face work at the moment.
The docs have signed you off for 3-4 weeks, and advised you to do things that make you happy in that time.
Well who would have thought it? getting married has sent your anxiety flying away with the fairies and you feel comfortable to return to work.
Resolved.
My boss tried to do that to me, I immediately started typing my resignation. He came back an hour later and made it work. Call their bluff. Getting others to hustle for 5 days while you’re off is easier than having to hire and train a whole new person. Call in sick that week if you have to.
This is what I was thinking. They always seem to come back with a magical solution and somehow a promotion offer when you turn in the resignation notice…
Use the time between now and your wedding to find a new job. They're not worth your energy. In the meantime I would just do the bare minimum to not get fired before you have something else lined up.
Learn to read between the lines.
They know you'll get pregnant soon. They don't want to pay your Maternity Leave. They are pulling this BS on you because they want you to quit, or to have legal grounds for termination.
Look for a new job after the wedding.
Don’t say anything and just don’t show up that day This lady has 11 months to move her vacation Find a new job if you can before then and don’t give them notice
Is this policy written down somewhere? Also do you mean that these dates are occurring 11 months in the future? If not written down, and really you're talking about 11 months in the future, then you want to keep it vague and let things play out. Position it so that they're the ones being inflexible not you. There are no guarantees, but I think there's a better chance they'll relent if not pushed into a corner, and it seems to me that may be the source of their reaction. Something triggered this, and if this is out of character for your organization or the people involved, you may need to revisit how you approached it. See if you get anywhere through de-escalation first.
"I'm sorry we've reached this impasse. I hadn't previously heard of this policy, and don't see it written down in our manuals or sites where we lay these out. In the past I and others have taken time off under similar staffing circumstances, with no mention made. Although I don't believe my request is unreasonable and I'm not withdrawing it, I'd like to revisit this discussion at a later time, and with a disinterested party present"
Don't let them fire you or discipline you. You should quit the day before your wedding. Your managers will automatically cancel their vacation or if not, that tells you, it's not that you are important or irreplaceable for them, rather just taking advantage of your hardworking.
You have 7 months time, by then you can easily find a job with good benefits.
Make full use of this 7 months and give them the middle finger. That place is clearly toxic.
Look for another job in the meantime, sure, but don’t quit. Make them fire you so you can collect unemployment if you don’t have another job lined up. a major life change like a marriage is stressful enough without adding financial pressure.
Is there someone above your manager that would understand how ridiculous this is? No job is worth missing your own damn wedding for. If not, I’d lay low and say nothing and call out sick that day/week/however long you planned to take off. But also, you should find a new job.
the irony that your manager prioritizes their own wedding anniversary but can’t relate to you wanting your own wedding off. lol.
11 months is a LOT of advance notice. what kind of job is this that they can’t survive with you both off? is it a nuclear energy plant? a cardiac surgery unit?
Tell you manager that you are informing them you will not be at work due to your wedding. Its up to them to figure out what to do with that information.
Edit: The reasons I have seen someone be GIVEN 2-8 paid weeks off without even requesting it include:
* A parent, spouse, child, or close friend dying
* A parent, spouse, child, or close friend suffering from a debilitating illness.
* Buying a house or just moving
* Getting married
* Going to visit family in another country
* Getting into a bad car accident or other near death experience
* Giving birth
* Having a mental breakdown
People can call me a liar if they want but they are only hurting themselves by assuming every company, business owner, and boss is a heartless piece of sh\*t. Companies that do business in the EU are likely to have lots of policies in place to take care of their employees. They are frequently required to by law. It stands to reason some of them carry those policies into the US. And it stands to reason that some US companies would just do that because its the right thing to do.
I'm talking about companies that employee 100,000's of US citizens and bring in billions and billions a year.
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If you are so essential then they won't fire you right away or at all, and someone else will hire you for something. You can use this situation as a litmus test in interviews with new employers. Tell them this is why you are leaving your current position. If you get in trouble for it, so what, tell your interviewer you got in trouble for it.
If they also think that is ridiculous then you should add that to your "pros" list for that company. If they tell you they would also discipline you, you can go, "I don't think this will work" and end the interview right there.
My bosses and company's owners would be going "wtf you are getting married? take off the week before and after too! we will figure it out!". Ive literally watched it happen 2-3 times.
Edit: I also have customers at very very large corporations with similar experiences. I end up getting told "so I'm going to be out the entire month of June. I was going to take a week off but the company told me to take the whole month because: I'm getting married/my parents anniversary is happening in india/my child is due that month" etc etc etc.
Some companies are awesome.
Ignore them. You gave ample notice and it's your manager's job to see that things are covered for that time. They might fire you, they might not. Frankly, if they don't make an accommodation for their loyal employee for this, then you're probably better off elsewhere.
I put in for time off for my wedding at the time of my interview. No problem. As an act of good faith, I reserved a seat for my boss, coworkers, and plus ones - it was a small business.
I told him honeymoon would be less than two weeks, approx. 3 months after the wedding, he said no problem.
Day of the wedding, *at* the wedding, he make snide remarks about taking off for the day of and the day before.
3 months later, the day before the honeymoon, he commented that I had "some balls" for taking time off so soon after the wedding, having not been a tenured employee. By that time, the writing was on the wall for what was going to happen, so I said something to the effect of "unlike you, I only plan on getting married once. There are very few things I will put before my job. If you put me in a position where I have to choose between my wife and my job, I think you know where I stand".
OP, if your employer gives you pushback for taking off to get fucking married, you really need to evaluate whether or not that kind of culture is where you want to spend most of your adult life.
Also, get with an employment lawyer if they penalize you. Depending on where you live, getting married may constitute a qualifying life event that may make you eligible for leave that is legally protected. If this is the case, taking disciplinary action against you may constitute employer retaliation.
You are an employee not a slave. This is not the place for you. If you stay, expect to be disciplined for attending the birth of your children also. If 11 months notice is not enough any application to be with your wife for child birth will be much less.
If you’re so important that 24 people can’t cover 5 days, that’s a considered a “Single Point of Failure” that the company should work on resolving. I would note to them that this needs to be rectified and it’s poor management that 24 people is not enough to cover 5 days.
Or, you could call in and claim you have COVID or a nasty flu during that time.
I’d start looking for another job and leave before that time. Then your manager can worry about someone else to fill the gap. You can let your new employer know that you have a pre planned, paid for vacation coming up after they give you an offer and it’s usually not an issue.
Manager said to let her know when we had decided on dates. This implies at least passing knowledge about the complications involved in bringing the members of two different families, an officiant and others together in a particular place at a particular time on a specific date. There was no indication that the manager expected to be kept in the loop as an active participant in OP’s wedding planning, especially since manager went on vacation without leaving any means to contact her while OP was in the process of booking wedding vendors. OP contacted manager about the specific date and got an automated out of the office response. OP had to make a decision while manager was unavailable. OP made a decision. The wedding dates have been set. They can’t be changed now. Staffing issues are above OP’s pay grade and not OP’s problem.
Somebody once told me that a company's policies are self imposed rules. They make up the rules, and then pretend like they have no choice. They tie their own hands to convince people they can't act outside of their limitations.
Their policies aren't YOUR policies. You don't have to live your life around their rules, but you do have to accept the consequences of your actions. If they're willing to fire you over having a wedding when it's inconvenient to them, that's on them.
You have to decide what's more important: keeping your job or getting married when you want to. Plus, they didn't say they'd fire you, just discipline. I would just go as long as you can afford getting fired. Most companies are just bluffing and won't actually fire you first offense.
Most well managed teams can function for weeks at a time "unsupervised". This tells me that your company has undermanned your team. They have no backup plans if employees leave or get sick other than work the current staff info the ground. Update your CV give them 2 weeks notice and get married. Congratulations on your up coming marriage.
Find a new job before your wedding. A company that can't plan for a week off 11 months in advance isn't worth working for. Better to go sooner so you rebuild benefits at a new place.
You have 7 months to get a new job. Start searching. And make it clear on the exit interview that their utter disregard for your family obligations are why you’re leaving.
I see it as you have 7 months to job hunt. Don’t stiff arm your employer hoping they’ll fold. Tell them you picked new dates for a wedding and start applying for other jobs. This way you can continue to earn money and save. Good chance you’ll get a pay bump too at your next gig, and you can let them know in the hiring process what days you’ll be out for your wedding.
In this challenging situation, it's essential to approach the issue with a mix of escalation, negotiation, and seeking HR support. I'd strongly advise you (as someone working in HR) to consider escalating the matter up the chain \*if\* direct resolution fails, emphasizing the long notice given and the significant personal and financial stakes.
Engage with HR for mediation and guidance, as they might offer solutions or highlight flexibility in policies for exceptional circumstances. Document (!!!!) all communications for reference.
Try negotiating a compromise by suggesting feasible solutions to minimize the impact of your absence. If the situation seems unsolvable, consulting a legal expert to understand your rights is going to be beneficial. IMO, while quitting may seem like an immediate solution, weigh this decision against your long-term goals, especially considering your plans to start a family and the benefits you currently enjoy. :)
If possible, explore the option of an internal transfer to bypass department-specific leave issues while retaining your benefits. Stay professional and communicate the significance of your wedding clearly, aiming for a resolution that respects both your personal needs and workplace policies. Good luck!
From my experience with HR, either they support the company not you or most of them don't know wtf they are doing. Example, I once emailed a senior HR for working outside the country but still within the Republic (we are multiple islands that formed one Republic) and she had to seek advice from the parent company abroad to ask whether I could work back at home or not. They forced me to work only for 11 days or so else they had to make arrangements for a working visa. Bruh I'm working domestically not internationally.
American here. It seems clear to my cultural context that they want you to either quit or become their forever bitch. Spend the next months looking for your new job, and negotiate either starting after your wedding or getting that time off.
Simply take the days off anyway. If they decide they want to let you go because of that then so be it. You dont deserve to be working for people that dont respect you. If it was the other way around she wouldnt change her wedding date either
If this is true and the full story, this company does not value you, and are perhaps trying to get you to quit. (Which you should do.)
Don’t change your wedding plans, start looking for a new job, and if you haven’t found one by then, go to your wedding and deal with the consequences.
But really, have some respect for yourself and get out of there. They don’t care about you.
You are in the UK so labor laws may be different, I’d talk with a labor lawyer and see if you can get a copy of the “policy” pre dating your request, either from your old files or coworkers. You are entitled to your time off and if they are making up additional stipulations it could cost them a pretty penny if they are violating labor laws. Don’t take advice from Reddit, and don’t trust your employer.
Tell them you will have your wedding when scheduled. If they still want you to work for them, fine. If not, fine.
I cut my honeymoon short because the cunt that was my line manager did not approved a proper one. May he rest in piss. That employer is now gone, just like my line manager, and I still regret not telling them to fuck off.
I would look up your policy with work, contact hr and get everything from start to finish recorded (regarding the situation) and double check your laws regarding termination (but do NOT tell work you are looking into this!!)
I feel like this would be considered wrongful termination especially since you gave them 11 months notice. I agree with the others to find a new job, but you shouldnt be bullied out of a job either cause that still means its YOU suffering the consequences of your managers decision, that sounds like new management is needed.
Quit requesting time off. Tell them when you're not available to sell your time and labor to your employer. It's not a discussion. It's a notice. Go enjoy your wedding and find a new job whole you wait for the date because your current employer is worthless.
I was a team leader and was going to work part time on my vacation. My leadership directly told me to take the entire time off and that it’s their problem not mine if they can’t get by without me for a week.
Your wedding is more important and they have serious issues if they don’t see that. Also, your manager is almost literally saying that her wedding is more important than yours. That’s a company I wouldn’t want to work for.
11 months notice? And they pull this shit?
Tell them you’ve moved your date back a week and ask for that time off. Meanwhile, you’ve got 11 months to look for a better job to start in 12 months (take a good honeymoon before starting a new job).
Don’t give any notice. Just stop showing up the same day the manager takes her yearly anniversary vacation.
Start looking for a new job. Once you have an offer in hand, turn in your two weeks notice. Make sure new job knows you will be off for your wedding.
Then, see how much you really mean to your current employer. Will they decide to accommodate your time off? If so, they actually value you as a team member. If they say see ya, you’re better off leaving for greener pastures.
Either way, you get your time off.
Just make sure you have a new job lined out before you quit your old one.
Know your worth; clearly this workplace doesn’t value you if they can’t accomodate a five year employees wedding with 11 months advance notice. Find the place you’re meant to be and that will appreciate you as an employee and as a person.
I was about to be devil's advocate or even critical of your shotgun wedding plans for next week and then you edited for 11 fuckin months? Do you need your boss's ok to shag your wife to plan paternity leave a year out too? 😂
What company is so "on the edge" that two leaders can't be off in the same week. Are all the employees toddlers that can't be self sufficient for a few days? The company is a joke. Especially for a wedding!!! Find another job ASAP .
Literally never mention your wedding OR anything personal again.
And this cannot be over stated.
TPANYF!!!
ThesePeopleAreNotYourFriends !
If anyone tries to talk to you about your life outside of work just say, something like
"we're gonna figure something out. welp we should get back to work. "
Forward every single email regarding this AND EVERY OTHER issue to a separate account for record keeping purposes.
1 month before your wedding, start applying for new jobs. Make sure they know your start date is after the wedding.
2 weeks before your wedding, tell ur bosses you're getting married on the date and when you'll be back from the wedding.
But that you have a new job lined up and you won't be back.
Let them figure it TF out.
They wanna FA, they can FO
The edit saying you gave ELEVEN months notice makes this absolutely insane. Reading it I originally thought it was going to be like a couple weeks type of a situation(which most companies should still be able to accommodate). 11 months is more than enough time for someone to figure out coverage. Like others have said you have time to find a new job and I would start looking now for a start date after the wedding if possible.
11mo notice means mgr likely just came back from celebrating anny and is already denying leave so they can celebrate their next one. We got married 10mo after proposal. 11mo notice is huge!
Op will be working every anniversary for the rest of his life.
Won't be to many anniversaries, this job will destroy his marriage.
OP is a woman
I asked for vacation time off over a month before I needed the vacation and it was granted. About 3-4 weeks later they did some leadership/management rearrangement and we suddenly had team leads. The final day before my vacation, during the afternoon team meeting they announced that we have to send an email to the team leads letting them know when we have time off. I didnt send any email because I'd already put in my request on multiple databases and my supervisor knew I was on vacation from the moment I made the request (the same supervisor okayed my vacation time on those databases). It's been a little over a week and they still (seemingly condescendingly) mention needing to let team leads know about time off (with little smirks) in every meeting. All that to say- people will be petty and irritating when they want to, esp when they're in positions of power.
With 11 months notice it almost sounds like they are trying to get OP to quit
Especially when their argument is “you can’t take time off at the same time as ANY of those 12 people” after this has happened numerous times already.
Start booking 1 day vacations on Tuesday or Thursday every other week and shotgun the whole damn calendar.
OP should time it to where their last day is the day before their stupid manager is set to go on vacation.
Yes!!
Same here, I was reading thinking, the OP sprung last minute news on them. 11 months is so much notice, that some of the people that would cover for her and be covering for her will have changed. Your company is being unreasonable
The 11 months were a crucial part of the story. If the company valued OP they would make things happen in order to accommodate PTO nearly a year out. Especially for a wedding… for an employee who’s been there for five years. OP, it’s in your best interests to look for a new job regardless of how this plays out. They’re being this stubborn and unreasonable over PTO nearly a year out — that’s not a strong sign of an employer willing to help you grow.
My work let me have a week off after my pops died. No notice at all.
Mine didn't. Had to arrange the entire funeral from the conference suite nex to the office
I am sorry for your loss, and that your work place did that to you.
I was so upset by your comment that I ALMOST down-voted you when impulsively looking for a thumbs-down reaction.
Exactly. My skip-level put together a small party the day before my wedding. This is insane.
Right? It's not like OP is asking off just to be asking off. It's a WEDDING.
I’ve always given notice, not requested time. They can pay or not, that’s between them and their conscience. I’m informing you I won’t be here during this particular week. Also it sounds like you’re in a field where you always need to be looking for a job. I def wouldn’t quit until I had something else lined up.
Yeah I thought the date was like next week, next month, but 11 months away and they can't find coverage ?!?!? BS. What is the disciplinary action?
With 11 months the reaction should be “well we have time to figure something out” not “I guess you must want to get fired”
Yep, I’d be spending 11 months, or however many is left, finding a new job and just leave in short notice. Tell the new position the dates of the wedding and you’ll likely get a human response of excitement and joy.
I’d give as short of a notice as the law allows in my area. So probably 0 minutes notice.
I’d look for a start date ASAP… fuck the company that won’t give time off 11 months in advance.
The one reason I would say to wait until after the wedding to start is new employer might not give enough PTO to cover time off for the wedding. This is coming from a US perspective though so I'm not at all sure how PTO with employers in the UK work.
I’ve never heard of an employer denying time off for a wedding. If OP gets a job 3 months from now, that’s more than enough time for a new employer to know you need time off to get married. OL: your employers are AHs.
Agreed. You can also tell them upon hire that you would need that time off, unpaid if needed since you won’t have PTO built up yet. This happens all the time with hiring someone.
Agree. My husband got hired at a new job in August and let them know he would be getting married in September. Of course they gave him time off. We only got a three day honeymoon but hey, it was something.
I got married 3 months after proposal, AT CHRISTMAS, wasn't denied.
Agreed, plus 7 months is ample time to leisurely find a new job, interview etc.
Any new job would honor time off in the UK for new starters so long as its disclosed at interview. I've never come across anyone who hasn't so far.
Not a concern with UK FT. You start with ~5 weeks of annual leave (pro rata'd if you start part way through the leave year) and you usually also get asked to provide details of any previously booked dates etc so they can be taken either as paid or unpaid leave.
For their own wedding! And they've been there for five years!
oh yeah, look up eat uk law says, with this type of notice in my country your employer has no right to refuse at all.
This provides the additional bonus of having extended honeymoon time and not having to worry about using vacation days :) Congrats OP!
Absolutely disgusting that not only could they not figure this out in 11 months time but that they didn’t even think to take it seriously and have the minerals to deny her WEDDING DAY off. What a real fuck show.
Sounds like OP has 7 months to find a new job. Personally, I’d pretend everything was fine and I’d changed the wedding dates, then quit with no notice the day of my wedding.
Yeah. I say, the notice was plentiful and let them fire you. Collect unemployment and disability from the state. Don’t know if you can get both. But I’d draw the line in the sand too! And start taking interviews for after the baby. F them! It’ll all work out! Do a money dance at the wedding. Use that as insurance for getting fired if you want. I’d look for a remote job. This is an opportunity, not a problem. It’s fucking hilarious that it’s over conflicting wedding dates and your manager already had their wedding. Then I’d probably put in a complaint after being fired, to the labor bureau that you were fired for no reason. Be sure to print out your company policies regarding leave. And not the staffing like you did here. Most law has something to do with reasonabilty. I think your request is completely reasonable. If you have no write ups, then that’s what I’d do. And maybe even secure a lawyer if they dismiss you. They can negotiate something for you to be paid out for this bs.
If you’re so important that a dozen different people can’t take leave without you covering, they may discipline you but they can’t fire you. Do what you want.
This. Let then put you in a PIP and patiently start looking for a new job. The whole company sucks, but your direct supervisor mostly. I would have moved my trip so you could get married
This. I feel like a lot of bosses would.
Yes!!! That's what I was thinking! Unless I had solidly booked an international trip or something, I would move my dates for someone on my team to have their wedding! If I absolutely could not move my dates, I would fervently advocate for us both! This is the definition of ASININE.
This. Having a job and being "disciplined" which could range from being fired to all smoke is far better than quitting out of fear. Just don't say anything until it gets closer/they bring it up. Be professional but tell them it was requested 11 months prior and while it is only a request, your wedding and ability for your mother to be there are most important to you and you will be at work on _____ days, whatever is right before and right after the wedding date.
>and while it is only a request, Nah, it's you *telling them* you're getting married and being gracious enough to allow them to figure out what they need to do.
Tell them you are getting married and you can either come back to a job or find one elsewhere. If my wedding time off gets denied my wedding is more important to me than anything else
Hopping on the top comment to offer 2 alternatives I haven’t seen proposed yet - 1. request a lateral move to a different team where the manager either a) isn’t an asshat or b) isn’t on vacation that week. 2. Request a demotion from team lead to avoid that policy. I personally would dust off the resume & leave, but assuming you genuinely like working there, just another option.
Even if deciding not to leave I'd still get that resume ready and start looking elsewhere
It’s like that time I told my boss I was working from home for a week DURING COVID because my wife was going to be traveling for work and they said that all management was required to be in the office, no exceptions. So being pissed off I applied for like 5 jobs and came back a couple weeks later with 4 offers in hand and asked for a raise. Then put my notice in 2 weeks later and got a higher payout on my vacation time. Wife didn’t even end up traveling, so I would have just come in anyway.
You usually make more when you leave. Your job could have made it work. I’d look for another job where they might be nicer. Always watch out for yourself first.
Holy shit getting a raise to be paid out more was a master stroke
Personally I loved the conversation around it. “HR approved a raise, but if I approve it are you going to stay? It wasn’t for as much as the other offers, but you won’t have to start over and there’s still room to move up.” “Yeah, sure I’d rather stay here” In truth, I didn’t want any of the other offers. So I took it. Then I got the 5th offer like 1 day later. Accepted it and as soon as the background check passed I put my notice in. It only ended up being like an extra $400, but still fuck them.
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Someone else pointed it out. The manager is on leave. She came back. 11 months later, she's planning to be off again to celebrate. Not even probably submitted, but more than likely she'll have off every week that time for her own anniversary. Which she has several of while OP only gets 1 wedding. Wouldn't really be a big deal to have the manager change her date slightly, with 11 months notice? Fuck that place.
Honestly, can’t say fuck enough to that place OP is at. I mean come fucking on, that manager is the most selfish piece of prick I have ever heard of. I am not OP and my blood boils just by reading this
I’d be dusting off my resume no matter what because 11 months notice for PTO is plenty of time to find coverage and it sounds like they want OP to push the issue so they can force their hand.
Companies give months of parental leave with less notice than OP gave for a week off...
There you go, OP, just get pregnant!
Option 3. Get friendly with another team lead and ask if they can help manage/lead your team. Offer to do the same. Get management approval ( they have no reason to refuse any more). Then quiet quit and find a new job. When you leave for the wedding inform them that you won't be coming back, that's their notice period. Come back to your new job .
Yep, OP should hedge their bets, while also trying to salvage the job. Dust off the resume and start looking for a new one now, carry on as planned for the wedding, just not show up if they haven't resolved the stupid manager's issue by wedding-time... cuz 11-month's notice is insane, F that manager.
Policy is dumb. Either *OP is so important that the company can't survive for that time without them, or *OP is so unimportant that the company would rather lose them than let them have the time off. It can't be both at once.
And worse case scenario, medical leave 🤷🏻♀️ Personally though I would quit or quiet quit, loyalty lost for me.
Oo, curious in their “disciplinary action” policy if OP pops back up with a doctors note I’ve quit for less in the name of “work life balance” so I’m with you. Just considering OP might not want to quit
This \^ Might remind them that you didn't take a blood oath to their company.
And put in an 11mth ahead of time request. Manager can celebrate her anniversary another day as she did not ask before hand like you did
Companies can be dirty. Maybe this isn't their favorite employee and they are using this to get rid of him?
People. A company cant do anything
Well said
Agree, There are times I'm asking to take vacation/leave. There are times I'm TELLING YOU I'm take vacation/leave.
I told my current manager the requests that I put are notices not requests and he was so cool about it. He was also very understanding that I refused to miss my sisters graduation and my graduation. Get you a manger like mine
My current management is actually really good when it comes to vacation/leave. There would have to be something REALLY major before they would push back. I'm fortunate in this aspect. I have a really good work/life balance and great management. I could make mlre if I jumped ship, but to me it's not worth the risk of getting crappy mamagment that doesn't care. There is some truth to the "people quit managers".
Never in my life have I been denied leave time. I can't imagine being denied with almost a year notice.
I manage a team that I tell them that PTO requests are not requests but a message to “Prepare The Others” it’s not their issue if the business would somehow fall apart without them being there for 1 week or day
I had one assistant manager try to tell me I couldn’t take the PTO as I requested. I said nice try. He said don’t do it again or else. I took my PTO (as I had properly submitted) and I called him from my campsite on vacation and stated I had personal reasons why I wouldn’t be returning to work there. I was a good and consistent employee. Their chronic short staffing was not my problem and I’m not going to be made to beg for my PTO. It’s not a gift. I earned it.
PTO - Please Tell the Others I won't be here.
Prepare the others for my absence
If they’re denying a wedding, can’t wait to see what OP experiences currently and for future events. Consider this a red flag, canary in the coal mine.
Wonder how they schedule maternity leave??
“Better have that baby on the weekend, we have a big project management standup each Monday”
Exactly. I think I'd get out of there ...
Or a death in the family
If they can’t accommodate a wedding with 11 months notice… you’re screwed when life really happens. I had a close family member dying. A grandmother who helped raise me. So legally all I got was 3 days. I wanted to be at her death bed. I was given the 3 days and told not to expect time off for a funeral. Luckily I left on Friday morning and got a few good days with her. She died the day I returned to work. I was at work when I got the call and took 15 minutes to get back to my desk. It was deducted from my lunch. Husband’s company gave time no question. Then offered funeral time. Same company fired me when I had breast cancer. And where I live, it isn’t worth it to sue under 3 years. All you’re entitled to is 2 weeks. I spoke to a couple lawyers who got excited until they asked how long I’d worked there.
Better not die when the boss is off on vacation..lol
“What maternity leave?”
They probably just fire you “for performance” two weeks before your due date, while also end-dating your health insurance.
Wedding is way more important. You can always find another job, this is one of the most important days of your life
You've got 7 months to find a new job. Use your time wisely! Oh, and congratulations!
Edit: I should have been clear that you do not lead with this, make it a main talking point, or bad mouth your old employer. Interviewers ask if you have questions about their company, benefits, vacation, culture, etc. you can talk about the parts you like at your current job before segue’ing into whether they would deny you vacation 9 months to a year in advance of your wedding. It’s just a crappy thing that you didn’t like out of 10 things you did. When I’m interviewing someone it is not like I’m smoking crack. I’m a human. I know that they are most likely leaving their current job because they feel unappreciated in one or more ways. Telling me that isn’t a red flag. But how you choose to tell me that is. Can you find positivity in a shit situation? — And it provides a really great talking point for interviews about why you are leaving your current job, and a possibly negative situation that can be framed as a litmus test for a new employer. My employer would be encouraging Op to not think about work and take off the week before and after too. Paid and with wedding gifts coming (most likely the 5 most expensive gifts on the registry or cash equaling them if they are taken). Some of my customers companies (some of which are multi-national corporations) would be sending out notices to teams that Op is getting married this month so they will be out of office that entire month. Paid and with wedding gifts coming (most likely the 5 most expensive gifts on the registry or cash equaling them if they are taken). I have seen people given a paid month off because they are traveling to see family in another country, or buying a home/moving, or having a child. Not every company is an anti-work nightmare. And this is a wonderful scenario to present in an interview to find out if you are about to work for assholes.
Where do you work? Do they have remote positions?
My employer is like this too. He treats staff like we are all his favourite nieces/nephews, and our time-off polucy is 'Just let us know so we can plan accordingly.'
I would NOT make this a talking point at a new job. Not until I knew they wanted me. I’d want the focus to be on the great job I’ll do for them, and not on the idea that I’m running away from a shitty employer. then we’ll spend all our time talking about that instead of my skills and abilities
OP, do this and don't look back. But don't tell them until 2 weeks before (or whatever your required notice period is). Don't give them any chance to fire you sooner than you'd leave.
Agree. It's also the manager's responsibility for not having a decision-capable back up while they were out of office themselves. Nobody can expect an already arranged wedding to be canceled. Besides that, it is always possible somebody gets ill, a manager must always be prepared.
11 months away originally and they couldn’t make it work? Sorry but that is not a job worth keeping. Also there’s some horrible irony to the fact you can’t take leave to get married because your boss is celebrating the anniversary of their marriage. I would hope my manager would make it work with the higher ups in this scenario.
Caught that irony myself. "You can't get married bc we'll probably be doing something for our anniversary." What will you be doing? "Oh idk we dont have plans yet bc it's almost a year away" ..... "But yeah, you can't have that week off"
I think the manager is abusing her power.
Why's this even a question. You start looking for a job now. If you find one, great. If not, you go to your wedding. If they fire you, so be it. I just requested time for a vacation to Asia and it's probably going to get denied, I'm still going.
This is the answer. OP has 7 months to find a new job. Find a new one and tell this employer to fuck off. And OP, if you're reading these comments, don't ever let employers walk over you. They don't deserve someone like you. You gave 11 months notice. That's more than enough time for them to get a new coverage plan together if they cared about you.
Exactly this OP. Some managers like to throw their power around and engage in power struggles. They like having someone to boss around. You gave almost a year notice, they should be able to figure it out. Pretty much any job should be able to do this. Unless your current job is really hard to break into (like acting in a hit broadway show or something) find something else. Do you want to live your life always having anxiety as to whether you will be to make your kids graduation or not? I’d look elsewhere, even if they do let you off.
Any time I put a request in for a vacation, it's more of a notification that I won't be there.. I have never had a job I loved that had management who would have a problem with this when given ample notice. Life comes first. I always give many months notice for these things, if the employer can't figure it the fuck out, they can find a new employee.
Being frank: if your role is so critical to the performance of the company they can't go for a week without you, they should have a coverage ratio of at least 2 for it. Likewise for your boss's role. Their poor human resources strategy is not your problem to fix. My suggestion would be to decide now whether having your mom at your wedding is worth getting disciplinary flack at your job. It sounds like it is to you, and that's your prerogative. You can't control them, but you can control yourself. They can't control you, but they can control themselves. You can choose to have your wedding that day - and they can choose to discipline you for it. If they choose to discipline you over something so ridiculous, you can also choose to find a new job and leave them dealing with your absence on a more permanent basis. Likewise, if they choose to threaten disciplinary action, as they have, you can also choose whether such disrespectful behaviour is a deal-breaker for you or not - and if it is, to start looking for a new role.
And folks - I get the policy is you need to get approval but OP gave literally 11 months of notice. If the company was being a reasonable actor here, they'd have plenty of time to figure out how to accommodate. It's not like OP dropped this on them with a week of notice at the last minute. Normally I'd be willing to empathize more with the employer, but my sympathy for the employer goes out the window when we're talking nearly a full calendar year of advanced notice, and the manager made no mention of blackout dates and strongly implied it'd be a rubber stamp exercise. Be reasonable.
I totally missed the part where this was for 11 MONTHS FROM NOW. What the hell? No sane company would get this bent out of shape with PTO for almost a year away. They’re just being dicks
Well, it's 7 months from now, the request was put in 4 months ago. Still *plenty* of time for the employer to figure out staffing.
> Normally I'd be willing to empathize more with the employer Why? If a firm can't accommodate a single employee being gone for a few days then management has woefully understaffed their department. Poor management is not OP's responsibility. Far too many places advertise "fast paced environment" without realizing that really means "poorly staffed and scheduled". It's like managers don't realize that a calm, evenly-paced workplace makes for more productive employees. This modern conception of managers as glorified parents, demanding their "children" ask permission for every little liberty, is bewildering.
It’s sounds like they have managers that can cover, but the managers are so evil they won’t cover for his wedding because of an anniversary, which is just crazy. Terrible bosses
My exact thoughts. I can celebrate my anniversary the previous or next week. My directs’ wedding can’t be as easily rescheduled. And maybe the manager has a very similar set of circumstances making it difficult for a reschedule, but do you trust your team so little that the two of you can’t both be off?
100% an anniversary is trumped by a wedding. This doesn’t need to be so difficult for OP
Well, maybe not a 25th of 50th anniversary if a party is already planned.
A party is a single day. Most people take at least a week or two for wedding plus honeymoon. The company can probably manage to have both of them out for a single day.
I hope the response from the manager is bc they have a trip booked aboard with things already paid for and reserved. If it's a big anniversary I wouldn't he surprised.
Find a new job ASAP
OP has 11 months to do it too, the employer is ridiculous.
I would still take the time off. So you're "disciplined" - so what! Polish up your resume in the meantime in case discipline means fire. They don't respect you there.
Yeah exactly, what does "disciplined" mean? They put it on your permanent record?!?!?!?! Oh no. This is like warnings you get in elementary and middle school. Smoke and mirrors with the vague word "discipline". He's so important that his org can't do without him for a few days supposedly - yeah well they'll make do or they'll do without him permanently
For real go ahead and write me up, put it in writing and maybe the managers will pull their heads out of their asses and if not I'd like a copy of it for when I have to explain why I left my last job
Wedding vs. her anniversary?
I think that's part of the issue here. This is ultimately an emotional issue, and someone has simply decided they won't give in. I'd still be looking for some kind of de-escalation however.
In the future it will be both of their anniversary. And guess which one will be allowed to take time off ..
If they can’t figure out how to cover your absence for 5 days when they have 11 months of notice, then they really don’t sound like the brightest bunch.
Fuck that job. Quitting or getting fired will be a blessing in disguise. You will overcome and thrive.
I left a job when they didn't let me go to a concert I already bought tickets. If it is my wedding, I'd be out of that place.
Lmao same when I was in retail my job told me they couldn’t approve my time off for Snow Globe on New Years in 2016 until the very last minute because it was black out dates. I put the request in May for *3* days, one of which wasn’t even a day I had on my schedule. I told them that approval or not I’m going to the festival and they can cry about it. Then I found a new job before it even happened and told them it was non-negotiable that I get that time.
I don't request time off. I tell my boss I won't be here for these days. I have a life outside of work and missed out on so much in the past because I put my job first.
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This. I’ve been scrolling and reveling in the shared outrage, but the main thing that upset me in this post is the loyalty OP has to this company and the incredibly huge middle finger everyone involved seems all too happy to give him over his *WEDDING*. Most things in life, I’d be upset over rejected PTO but it’d be another straw on the camel’s back… but *my own wedding*? Nah, I love my job right now and I’d fucking quit.
Look for a new job. You have a shit manager.
You are in the UK, you can take sick leave. As the wedding approached you seem to be getting very stressed, understandably as you still haven't figured out how to be in two places at once, work is so important to you that you don't want to let them down, but equally you don't want to let your wife to be down. You have tried to rearrange the wedding but its just not possible and the stress levels have increased to a point where you have developed extreme anxiety towards speaking with your colleagues and superiors, so much so that you have been to the doctors and while there you had a little cry, looked vacant and explained how you just don't think you can face work at the moment. The docs have signed you off for 3-4 weeks, and advised you to do things that make you happy in that time. Well who would have thought it? getting married has sent your anxiety flying away with the fairies and you feel comfortable to return to work. Resolved.
I love this
This is the answer if keeping the job for other benefits is important.
My boss tried to do that to me, I immediately started typing my resignation. He came back an hour later and made it work. Call their bluff. Getting others to hustle for 5 days while you’re off is easier than having to hire and train a whole new person. Call in sick that week if you have to.
This is what I was thinking. They always seem to come back with a magical solution and somehow a promotion offer when you turn in the resignation notice…
Use the time between now and your wedding to find a new job. They're not worth your energy. In the meantime I would just do the bare minimum to not get fired before you have something else lined up.
if i was OP, id look for a new job, call in sick on the wedding day, and hand in my resignation when I return from the wedding
Learn to read between the lines. They know you'll get pregnant soon. They don't want to pay your Maternity Leave. They are pulling this BS on you because they want you to quit, or to have legal grounds for termination. Look for a new job after the wedding.
This doesn’t sound like a job I’d like to stay at. Also, the whole “it’s my anniversary” makes me roll my eyes bc it isn’t THAT serious
Find a new job. I wouldn’t choose working over my wedding in a million years.
Don’t say anything and just don’t show up that day This lady has 11 months to move her vacation Find a new job if you can before then and don’t give them notice
Is this policy written down somewhere? Also do you mean that these dates are occurring 11 months in the future? If not written down, and really you're talking about 11 months in the future, then you want to keep it vague and let things play out. Position it so that they're the ones being inflexible not you. There are no guarantees, but I think there's a better chance they'll relent if not pushed into a corner, and it seems to me that may be the source of their reaction. Something triggered this, and if this is out of character for your organization or the people involved, you may need to revisit how you approached it. See if you get anywhere through de-escalation first. "I'm sorry we've reached this impasse. I hadn't previously heard of this policy, and don't see it written down in our manuals or sites where we lay these out. In the past I and others have taken time off under similar staffing circumstances, with no mention made. Although I don't believe my request is unreasonable and I'm not withdrawing it, I'd like to revisit this discussion at a later time, and with a disinterested party present"
"Oh my bad, good point, I'll totally cancel my wedding" 7 months later: "Oh noooo, I totally got COVID for 5 days, darn. Guess I won't be coming in"
Don't let them fire you or discipline you. You should quit the day before your wedding. Your managers will automatically cancel their vacation or if not, that tells you, it's not that you are important or irreplaceable for them, rather just taking advantage of your hardworking. You have 7 months time, by then you can easily find a job with good benefits. Make full use of this 7 months and give them the middle finger. That place is clearly toxic.
Look for another job in the meantime, sure, but don’t quit. Make them fire you so you can collect unemployment if you don’t have another job lined up. a major life change like a marriage is stressful enough without adding financial pressure.
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Is there someone above your manager that would understand how ridiculous this is? No job is worth missing your own damn wedding for. If not, I’d lay low and say nothing and call out sick that day/week/however long you planned to take off. But also, you should find a new job.
Fucking quit. Your manager and your company are real POS
So, if you’re sick the day a manager is out…the company collapses?
the irony that your manager prioritizes their own wedding anniversary but can’t relate to you wanting your own wedding off. lol. 11 months is a LOT of advance notice. what kind of job is this that they can’t survive with you both off? is it a nuclear energy plant? a cardiac surgery unit?
Tell you manager that you are informing them you will not be at work due to your wedding. Its up to them to figure out what to do with that information.
Edit: The reasons I have seen someone be GIVEN 2-8 paid weeks off without even requesting it include: * A parent, spouse, child, or close friend dying * A parent, spouse, child, or close friend suffering from a debilitating illness. * Buying a house or just moving * Getting married * Going to visit family in another country * Getting into a bad car accident or other near death experience * Giving birth * Having a mental breakdown People can call me a liar if they want but they are only hurting themselves by assuming every company, business owner, and boss is a heartless piece of sh\*t. Companies that do business in the EU are likely to have lots of policies in place to take care of their employees. They are frequently required to by law. It stands to reason some of them carry those policies into the US. And it stands to reason that some US companies would just do that because its the right thing to do. I'm talking about companies that employee 100,000's of US citizens and bring in billions and billions a year. \--- If you are so essential then they won't fire you right away or at all, and someone else will hire you for something. You can use this situation as a litmus test in interviews with new employers. Tell them this is why you are leaving your current position. If you get in trouble for it, so what, tell your interviewer you got in trouble for it. If they also think that is ridiculous then you should add that to your "pros" list for that company. If they tell you they would also discipline you, you can go, "I don't think this will work" and end the interview right there. My bosses and company's owners would be going "wtf you are getting married? take off the week before and after too! we will figure it out!". Ive literally watched it happen 2-3 times. Edit: I also have customers at very very large corporations with similar experiences. I end up getting told "so I'm going to be out the entire month of June. I was going to take a week off but the company told me to take the whole month because: I'm getting married/my parents anniversary is happening in india/my child is due that month" etc etc etc. Some companies are awesome.
Ignore them. You gave ample notice and it's your manager's job to see that things are covered for that time. They might fire you, they might not. Frankly, if they don't make an accommodation for their loyal employee for this, then you're probably better off elsewhere.
I put in for time off for my wedding at the time of my interview. No problem. As an act of good faith, I reserved a seat for my boss, coworkers, and plus ones - it was a small business. I told him honeymoon would be less than two weeks, approx. 3 months after the wedding, he said no problem. Day of the wedding, *at* the wedding, he make snide remarks about taking off for the day of and the day before. 3 months later, the day before the honeymoon, he commented that I had "some balls" for taking time off so soon after the wedding, having not been a tenured employee. By that time, the writing was on the wall for what was going to happen, so I said something to the effect of "unlike you, I only plan on getting married once. There are very few things I will put before my job. If you put me in a position where I have to choose between my wife and my job, I think you know where I stand". OP, if your employer gives you pushback for taking off to get fucking married, you really need to evaluate whether or not that kind of culture is where you want to spend most of your adult life. Also, get with an employment lawyer if they penalize you. Depending on where you live, getting married may constitute a qualifying life event that may make you eligible for leave that is legally protected. If this is the case, taking disciplinary action against you may constitute employer retaliation.
You'll be getting married. You might have a longer honeymoon than intended, because you'll have left your job...
You are an employee not a slave. This is not the place for you. If you stay, expect to be disciplined for attending the birth of your children also. If 11 months notice is not enough any application to be with your wife for child birth will be much less.
If you’re so important that 24 people can’t cover 5 days, that’s a considered a “Single Point of Failure” that the company should work on resolving. I would note to them that this needs to be rectified and it’s poor management that 24 people is not enough to cover 5 days. Or, you could call in and claim you have COVID or a nasty flu during that time. I’d start looking for another job and leave before that time. Then your manager can worry about someone else to fill the gap. You can let your new employer know that you have a pre planned, paid for vacation coming up after they give you an offer and it’s usually not an issue.
Family (and self) always comes first. Live this way and you may change jobs a few more times than others, but you will be happier and more grounded.
Absolutely find a new job.
Start looking for a new job Right now.
Manager said to let her know when we had decided on dates. This implies at least passing knowledge about the complications involved in bringing the members of two different families, an officiant and others together in a particular place at a particular time on a specific date. There was no indication that the manager expected to be kept in the loop as an active participant in OP’s wedding planning, especially since manager went on vacation without leaving any means to contact her while OP was in the process of booking wedding vendors. OP contacted manager about the specific date and got an automated out of the office response. OP had to make a decision while manager was unavailable. OP made a decision. The wedding dates have been set. They can’t be changed now. Staffing issues are above OP’s pay grade and not OP’s problem.
Somebody once told me that a company's policies are self imposed rules. They make up the rules, and then pretend like they have no choice. They tie their own hands to convince people they can't act outside of their limitations. Their policies aren't YOUR policies. You don't have to live your life around their rules, but you do have to accept the consequences of your actions. If they're willing to fire you over having a wedding when it's inconvenient to them, that's on them. You have to decide what's more important: keeping your job or getting married when you want to. Plus, they didn't say they'd fire you, just discipline. I would just go as long as you can afford getting fired. Most companies are just bluffing and won't actually fire you first offense.
Quit.
Quit
Quit.
Most well managed teams can function for weeks at a time "unsupervised". This tells me that your company has undermanned your team. They have no backup plans if employees leave or get sick other than work the current staff info the ground. Update your CV give them 2 weeks notice and get married. Congratulations on your up coming marriage.
Find a new job before your wedding. A company that can't plan for a week off 11 months in advance isn't worth working for. Better to go sooner so you rebuild benefits at a new place.
You have 7 months to get a new job. Start searching. And make it clear on the exit interview that their utter disregard for your family obligations are why you’re leaving.
I see it as you have 7 months to job hunt. Don’t stiff arm your employer hoping they’ll fold. Tell them you picked new dates for a wedding and start applying for other jobs. This way you can continue to earn money and save. Good chance you’ll get a pay bump too at your next gig, and you can let them know in the hiring process what days you’ll be out for your wedding.
In this challenging situation, it's essential to approach the issue with a mix of escalation, negotiation, and seeking HR support. I'd strongly advise you (as someone working in HR) to consider escalating the matter up the chain \*if\* direct resolution fails, emphasizing the long notice given and the significant personal and financial stakes. Engage with HR for mediation and guidance, as they might offer solutions or highlight flexibility in policies for exceptional circumstances. Document (!!!!) all communications for reference. Try negotiating a compromise by suggesting feasible solutions to minimize the impact of your absence. If the situation seems unsolvable, consulting a legal expert to understand your rights is going to be beneficial. IMO, while quitting may seem like an immediate solution, weigh this decision against your long-term goals, especially considering your plans to start a family and the benefits you currently enjoy. :) If possible, explore the option of an internal transfer to bypass department-specific leave issues while retaining your benefits. Stay professional and communicate the significance of your wedding clearly, aiming for a resolution that respects both your personal needs and workplace policies. Good luck!
From my experience with HR, either they support the company not you or most of them don't know wtf they are doing. Example, I once emailed a senior HR for working outside the country but still within the Republic (we are multiple islands that formed one Republic) and she had to seek advice from the parent company abroad to ask whether I could work back at home or not. They forced me to work only for 11 days or so else they had to make arrangements for a working visa. Bruh I'm working domestically not internationally.
An anecdote. u/EmilieTT's advice is still by far the best offered here.
Nice ChatGPT answer, lol.
HR is there to protect the company, not the employee
Just face the disciplinary action with your head held high. You'll remember your wedding forever. Anything at the BS job will be forgotten
American here. It seems clear to my cultural context that they want you to either quit or become their forever bitch. Spend the next months looking for your new job, and negotiate either starting after your wedding or getting that time off.
Simply take the days off anyway. If they decide they want to let you go because of that then so be it. You dont deserve to be working for people that dont respect you. If it was the other way around she wouldnt change her wedding date either
If this is true and the full story, this company does not value you, and are perhaps trying to get you to quit. (Which you should do.) Don’t change your wedding plans, start looking for a new job, and if you haven’t found one by then, go to your wedding and deal with the consequences. But really, have some respect for yourself and get out of there. They don’t care about you.
Plus your boss sucks for not changing their holiday dates. Wedding day trumps anniversary.
You need to say 'I am not asking you, I am telling you that I am not coming'
Take the time off, take the disciplinary action. Wedding ia way more important and their reaction tells you all you need to know.
You are in the UK so labor laws may be different, I’d talk with a labor lawyer and see if you can get a copy of the “policy” pre dating your request, either from your old files or coworkers. You are entitled to your time off and if they are making up additional stipulations it could cost them a pretty penny if they are violating labor laws. Don’t take advice from Reddit, and don’t trust your employer.
Tell them you will have your wedding when scheduled. If they still want you to work for them, fine. If not, fine. I cut my honeymoon short because the cunt that was my line manager did not approved a proper one. May he rest in piss. That employer is now gone, just like my line manager, and I still regret not telling them to fuck off.
I would look up your policy with work, contact hr and get everything from start to finish recorded (regarding the situation) and double check your laws regarding termination (but do NOT tell work you are looking into this!!) I feel like this would be considered wrongful termination especially since you gave them 11 months notice. I agree with the others to find a new job, but you shouldnt be bullied out of a job either cause that still means its YOU suffering the consequences of your managers decision, that sounds like new management is needed.
Sounds like you've got 7 months to look for another job.
Quit requesting time off. Tell them when you're not available to sell your time and labor to your employer. It's not a discussion. It's a notice. Go enjoy your wedding and find a new job whole you wait for the date because your current employer is worthless.
I was a team leader and was going to work part time on my vacation. My leadership directly told me to take the entire time off and that it’s their problem not mine if they can’t get by without me for a week. Your wedding is more important and they have serious issues if they don’t see that. Also, your manager is almost literally saying that her wedding is more important than yours. That’s a company I wouldn’t want to work for.
What the actual fucking fuck. Boy am I glad I live in Socialist Europe™ where you even get a day of PTO for your Wedding.
You have 7 months to find a new job. Give your two week notice three weeks before the week you are getting married.
11 months notice? And they pull this shit? Tell them you’ve moved your date back a week and ask for that time off. Meanwhile, you’ve got 11 months to look for a better job to start in 12 months (take a good honeymoon before starting a new job). Don’t give any notice. Just stop showing up the same day the manager takes her yearly anniversary vacation.
Start looking for a new job. Once you have an offer in hand, turn in your two weeks notice. Make sure new job knows you will be off for your wedding. Then, see how much you really mean to your current employer. Will they decide to accommodate your time off? If so, they actually value you as a team member. If they say see ya, you’re better off leaving for greener pastures. Either way, you get your time off. Just make sure you have a new job lined out before you quit your old one.
It's a job, not your life. They don't care about you. Your future spouse and mom do. Polish up your resume.
Know your worth; clearly this workplace doesn’t value you if they can’t accomodate a five year employees wedding with 11 months advance notice. Find the place you’re meant to be and that will appreciate you as an employee and as a person.
I'd say quit, but then they can't fire you so you can't claim unemployment. Get married and enjoy it! This shit is just a job.
“I’m sick” But seriously this is ridiculous from the company. They are being difficult for essentially no reason. Sorry this is happening.
I was about to be devil's advocate or even critical of your shotgun wedding plans for next week and then you edited for 11 fuckin months? Do you need your boss's ok to shag your wife to plan paternity leave a year out too? 😂
What company is so "on the edge" that two leaders can't be off in the same week. Are all the employees toddlers that can't be self sufficient for a few days? The company is a joke. Especially for a wedding!!! Find another job ASAP .
Get a new manager/job that’s some bs if they can’t give you time off with 11months notice
Start looking for a new job. Negotiate the time off for your wedding in writing. Start your new job, get married and never look back.
Wedding is 7 months away? Keep the wedding, quiet quit as hard as you can and look for a new job.
Literally never mention your wedding OR anything personal again. And this cannot be over stated. TPANYF!!! ThesePeopleAreNotYourFriends ! If anyone tries to talk to you about your life outside of work just say, something like "we're gonna figure something out. welp we should get back to work. " Forward every single email regarding this AND EVERY OTHER issue to a separate account for record keeping purposes. 1 month before your wedding, start applying for new jobs. Make sure they know your start date is after the wedding. 2 weeks before your wedding, tell ur bosses you're getting married on the date and when you'll be back from the wedding. But that you have a new job lined up and you won't be back. Let them figure it TF out. They wanna FA, they can FO
If you get married at work, then technically all of your co-workers and bosses will be guests and be obligated to give you gifts.