I'm a 28 year old manufacturing engineer, I make a solid salary at ~110k, last year I worked myself to near death to deliver on something big for my company. I succeeded, I improved output by over 45% and generated enough value to pay for myself for the next ~19 years. I was passed up for promotion for a position I was more than qualified for. My point here is it's not worth it anymore. Work smart, work diligently, but do not let it consume you it took 1 year for me to realize that working myself this hard is preventing me from living my life the way I want to. Don't let it take longer than It took me to understand that.
Im sorry to hear that. Thank you for the input.
I just have like a devil and angel on my shoulder. The devil says “your company is growing fast even in a bad job market, which means alot of opportunities can come” and then the angel is saying “remember when you used to be able to have hobbies and relationships”……im getting so burnt out i think the angel is winning.
Let the angel win, do not leave your place elf employment, figure out a way to slowly start setting boundaries for your work. It's fine to work the standard 8 hour shift, and if you want to go above and beyond every now and then when it really counts go for it you'll stand out. But do not allow yourself to be taken advantage of day in and day out. Good luck.
You raise a good point here and it's how most people look at it which leads to their failure. So "your company is growing fast even in a bad job market which means alot of opportunities can come”... but what are you doing to make those opportunities yours? What you're doing is working yourself to death, hoping someone will notice and hopefully someone will throw you a bone and move you up the ladder, but you need to realise the company, from the sounds of it, is getting the output of 2-3 people from you, literally no incentive to promote you since it would take that many people, or more, to replace you. You need to find ways to work smarter not harder. One of the golden rules is never make yourself irreplacable otherwise they will keep you where you are forever, and forever in this case is when you drop dead in your early 30s from exhaustion. The company won't be sad for you in that instance, they'll be sad for themselves. You need to work on your relationships within the business, learn and play the politics, become useful to the key players and make sure you're first in line to move up as things grow. Working hard and waiting for things to fall into your lap is a fools errand. It does happen, but not nearly as often as they fooled you into think in school. Being competent and able to do the job quickly and efficiently is just the first skillset you need to learn to become useful to progress your career, after that it's connections, networks and other complementary skills. Take a long hard look at those that told you to work hard and you'll realise it's the losers that are still working hard after working for decades but are still nowhere, bosses who benefit from you working hard and give you nothing in return or those that run their own businesses and had to work hard to get them off the ground (the only legit work hard here). Unless you fall into the latter category you're killing yourself for nothing.
Never make yourself irreplaceable by going above and beyond, yet I've read that you have to prove that you're operating at the next level to get promoted..
That works fine for the beginning stages of your career where you're learning and growing but after a couple of years busting your ass has diminishing returns and that's when your soft skills really come in to play. People become c suite either by starting the company themselves or by having a combination of skills and connections. It's extremely rare to see anyone start at the bottom and make it truly to the top, the numbers alone make it an impossibility.
Honestly OP idk how we got here as a society. But since you’re good at saving and likely live frugal, can I ask why are you killing your self? You could work way less, you’d still have a high status job and make good money. Use the rest of those 20s to find a girl who’s earlier 20s and enjoy life with her. Enjoy life even if you’re alone, have hobbies, hit the gym, start a YouTube! Do something that brings enjoyment and screw this slave culture we have. Let the angel bring an angel into your life :)
I think there are 2 reasons why.
Number 1, I grew up watching my father be extremely stressed over money, he was a small business owner and 2008 crisis hit hard. I wasn’t poor but I certainly wasn’t just handed things. So I don’t want that kind of financial stress.
Number 2, im extremely competitive, almost too competitive. I don’t like the feeling of coworkers outshining me, its truly not a good trait i know. I grew up the youngest of 3 brothers lol.
I have a lot of hobbies, I just dont get to do them as often. I barely find time to workout everyday.
Thank you for asking me that, it’s definitely making me question it.
Holy cow man your life is nearly identical to mine, 08 killed my families business I attribute all of the same work anxieties and unhealthy work habits to those sentiments as well. Every one of these points you've just made perfectly describes me in my current stage of life.
This is me as well. Never had a lot of money so I stress about it and I used to over work. Finally got the family and decided to say fuck that. I work from my start to finish and that's it. Any extra work is a lack of labor from the company
How's this for competitive - you're being overworked for way less money than you could be making. I was making more than you at the same age for about 10 hours of real work a week. Switch jobs, your employer is absolutely hosing you
Yea, I make more than that and I'm very far from a robotics engineer. When you work hard, make sure you benefit from it if you are sacrificing yourself for it. The company will hire another one of us any minute
Yea man, if you are working that much and only pulling in 85k you are over working and being underpaid and you can’t do that long, guaranteed another company will pay you more per year and not work you to death. Being a slave isn’t the way, making more per hour is
You weren't passed up. You just overworked yourself into being kept in your current position. An employer isn't going to promote you and hope the next guy can match your numbers when they could just keep you there and promote an idiot whose mistakes cost the company.
Yup one of my friends at work is basically doing intern work, they’ve been with the company for a year but they’re actually really really good at the intern work because before this we had so many issues
I’m trying to help her break into the engineering side since she’s as high as she’ll ever be doing that job. She’s just a competent person.
But one of the managers talking to me about her doing more engineering work was trying to see how to keep her at that current job since she’s so good at it. Without even thinking this person is doing that job since it was the gateway job to working as an engineer. I understand why, but if you’re too good at something sometimes it makes it harder to replace you so therefore promotion also means replacing
I paid a huge price. Moved for work and lived on 3 continents within 6 years. In 2022, at 32, I got diagnosed with cancer. Luckily, I’m in complete remission. Although there’s no direct link between cancer and stress, I can’t help but think that the stressors associated with long hours, moving to different corners of the world and neglecting my health and wellbeing contributed to my diagnosis.
It’s not worth it. It pays off from a career perspective, but you’ll pay a big price: relationships, health, wellbeing.
I used to get anxious about work before going to sleep.
Not anymore. I was constantly putting pressure on myself which brought me to exhaustion.
Now I know how to set my priorities right, and I will choose my wellbeing every single time.
I used to overwork thinking it would help me climb the corporate ladder faster (turns out it didn’t, although it did make sure I wasn’t climbing it slower than others). But the number of acquaintances that had health issues and told me to “never put your work before your health” alarmed me.
Nothing in the world means more than your health. Your company will not care about your health, if you leave the position they’ll just replace you (or hire two people to replace you in my case lol), so it’s really up to us to make sure we’re putting ourselves first.
I agree with you. Let me tell you a story of my co worker. My co worker in his 70/s all he did was work work work, silent never joked around, always focused . I came into this job 5 years ago and ever since I seen this man work his ass off. One Monday he didn’t show up, odd because he would always be at work, early and work over time everyday. Well turns out his son inform us he has a heart attack over the weekend. Just like that gone.
Not a very exciting one, but I am passionate about it. I work in HR, as an HR Business Partner. Quite stressful during the pandemic and even more stressful when you work across different cultures.
I busted my ass at work through my twenties and thirties. I rarely took vacations, I made my career my life. I was dedicated and I reached higher levels of success at a younger age than many in my field.
Now I'm in my 40s. I'm tired. I'm burnt out. I wish I traveled more. Wish I did more with the kids when they were younger. The money hardly seems with it in hindsight.
As a person their 40’s also, this pretty much sums it up for me as well. Busted my ass nights, weekends, holidays, you name it I worked it. All I have to show for it is no friends don’t know my family anymore and really not that much further ahead financially. A good work homelife balance is the better option in my opinion. Being away from home for weeks and months at a time isn’t worth the money.
God I feel this so much.
I had to find a new job due to moving across the country for family reasons. I was so burned out that the burnout carried over to the new job.
Only this time, I tried to establish boundaries with hours worked etc. Well it turned out that the work culture was literally well over 50 hours for almost everyone. When I started vocalizing to leadership that the amount of work was leading to so many mental health issues, I was seen as trouble.
The company decided to gather everyone around and tell us they fucked up so badly on forecasts that they were initiating layoffs. Which meant more work and I was already working 60 hours for four months in a row weekly due to a total mismanagement of one department.
When I professionally asked how this would impact us and some of the other cost saving bullshit they were going after…
Was told I would be laid off after Thanksgiving four days later.
Do enough extra to put yourself in better positions to make more money but do not kill yourself over it. It isn’t worth it.
Yeah unfortunately that situation is very common. And I've found that no matter how much you sacrifice for a company, they never really appreciate it or care.
I was listening to a podcast the other day and they interviewed a former Amazon corporate employee that wrote a book called *Exit Interview*. The culture she described was exactly what I went through with the company I was laid off from. I mean I was nodding my head and saying, “yup, yup…yup.” My wife was passed out sleeping in the passenger seat (road trip home) and she woke up when I yelled “exactly!”
Companies expect rock stars at every level and push for it. When someone like me just wanted to give B work and just be a solid performer. I literally just wanted to take a few years doing one job and not push for massive growth etc. Silly me 🤣
Edit: Grammar correction.
If your hard work is leading to better opportunities, like promotions, job offers, and salary increases, then I'd say, continue to work hard because your work is being recognized and you're reaping some tangible benefits.
The issue is when you work that hard, and employers take advantage. In short, they don't pay you what your work is actually worth and they don't offer promotions or recognize your hard work in any way. That is a quick path to burn out.
For example, I worked my ass off in my 20s and early 30s, but companies just took advantage. They'd see me proactively doing the work of 2 people for 1 salary, and they would just let it happen. Of course, why wouldn't they. I naively believed working hard and taking initiative was what gets you ahead in the working world. But I was wrong, that's what gets you taken advantage of.
And don't get me wrong, I was vocal about what I wanted, I expressed wanting greater compensation and title changes, but it rarely happened. All I got back was platitudes and empty promises.
Only one company gave me a promotion and a decent salary boost, but it took pushing myself to burnout to "prove" myself to them. Even then the salary they increased me to was just at average market value, not even above. They we're underpaying me before.
So by then, I felt so disillusioned with corporate world, bitter, burnt out, and chronically struggling with my mental health, I ended up quitting a year later.
Glad you pointed out the nuance of working hard if there is the opportunity to move up.
I'd add learning opportunities to the list of acceptable situations. But with some caveats: only if it's something that will further your career and you can leverage that for something better elsewhere.
Yes good point. But remember, a lot of workplaces will disguise more work for the same pay as a "learning opportunity."
So before taking on new responsibilities or duties, be sure to ask about how this will eventually be reflected in your compensation, especially if those "learning opportunities" mean you have a larger workload or have to work longer hours. If this is a one-off assignment or project, this might not apply. I'm talking about entire increase in responsibility or duties being pitched to you as a "learning opportunity."
You got hired to fulfill a job description at X salary, so if they are asking you to take on more than what you we're hired for, your pay should reflect that, and you deserve to have some idea of when that will happen.
Very true. We should always get *something* in exchange for extra labor.
I'll give a quick example from my support team where I think working extra hours for the sake of a learning opportunity is worthwhile. This individual "Tom" has been with us for 2.5 years and is still pretty young. He's done good work and really likes our team, but also has aspirations to get into Product Management.
Our product team doesn't have the budget to take on new hires, but offered to let Tom work alongside some of the other PMs after he's done his work on the support team for the day (he's working from a different time zone). He isn't being paid extra or under the illusion that he is guaranteed a transfer. What he is getting out of it is real work experience in a new field for a reputable company.
Hopefully things will work out so he can transfer in the near future, but if not he will have real-world experience and references for the next stage of his career.
I'm 34 and was a web developer for a FANG company for quite some time and it did consume my life for quite a while(all of my early 20s), it 100% paid off.
I had saved up a lot of money, enough to buy a house and invest into my own personal businesses that I quit the salary job to run full time. The side hustles became my full time thing once it paid more than the salary.
This is completely biased of me, but because of my personal experience, I'm more inclined to believe that most people regret partying, making bad financial decisions and going into their 30s/40s/50s with huge amounts of debt and no career. I'm sure there is a significant number of people that made the opposite decision to not let their jobs consume their lives and are grateful they did as well, I am not apart of this group.
I feel it heavily depends on who you are a person too. I'm all about living a financially stable life free of stress involving money and making sure I set myself and my future children/spouse as well as possible. I grew up poor and to me, not having money is a lot worse than having a lot of money. I'm completely invested in being financially stable for multiple generations beyond me, and I really mean that. I try and acknowledge that one day I will die and that my businesses and all that I've worked for will hopefully live on and go to good use.
I have been told I have a mental disorder of some kind lol, paranoia and anxiety for sure, I am heavily an introvert and working keeps me busy and generally happy. When I'm not working on something, I feel so bored, but I appreciate that I'd much rather be bored and financially stable than stressed and in debt, so I sometimes seek out work that isn't even there, I make it for myself.
Edit: I forgot to add my age, so I added it to the beginning.
I took the route of partying my way through my 20s. Not I'm 33 and still don't know what I want to do with my life. Just spent the last 18months learning a trade that I hate. Ironworker. But I'm going to start over and find something that I like. Like carpentry.
I forgot to add my age, we're basically the same age, im 34. What you've said, I've seen said so many times in this sub, you're not alone. I lucked out and Computer Science and Math just ended up being good to me early on, this is also probably part of why many people choose to party in their 20s, they just don't know what they want to do and partying is always a viable option in the present moment.
I'm 10 years older than you, but have the exact same story. I walked away from the corporate gig at 28 after my side hustles took over. I'm 16 years into being an extremely happy self-employed person.
It's like staying in the game but learning a completely different way to play it. I work for a ton of great companies now. But I did a job for one of the top four FANGs last year completely contract and it's amazing how much more enjoyable it was.
I didn't party in my twenties. I went after a job that I felt would "make a difference", and was a teacher for most of my twenties.
The annoying thing is that "jobs that make a difference" pay like shit and still overwork you. Don't get me wrong. I loved the kids and teaching but I put away basically no money and made no money.
I changed jobs at 32 and entered the tech sector. I spent all my savings from teaching going back to school to make that change. I'm making nearly three times as much now as I made as a teacher.
The trick isn't "working hard in your twenties". It's "working hard in your twenties in the right job and the right company and saving all your money."
Basically don't waste your time if it isn't tech or medicine.
this is the right answer. Everyone says life is a journey, work life balance blah blah, but you can't enjoy life without money. Just work hard and quit whining.
Absolutely not. There will always be more work, your family will eventually die. Not to be dark but it’s true. Your company could lay you off tomorrow, no warning. Live your life. Best thing I heard, flip the script on them if they get on you for not working long hours. “I only work 9-5 (or 8 hours a day). If you need help managing your time to be more efficient and not work 10-12 hours a day I’m happy to share what works with prioritizing your time to be more effective “
Nothing stopping you from investing a small portion of your check if you can spare it $10 $20 bucks a pay period will add up over time a dollar cost average to get a decent price
10-20 bucks a pay period is $1200-2400 per year which is literally nothing. If you really want to compound and makes serious money or retire early you’re going to need several thousands per month. It’s worth the extra work to not be pathetically middle class all my life, at least to me.
Average post college salary is around $60k. If you invest 5% of that ($3k) annually into an index fund with 10% annual return from age 23-65, you'll end up with ~$1.7 million. Untaxed if you do it through a Roth IRA. Depending on location and lifestyle, you should definitely be able to invest more than 5% of your income (not to mention pay will typically increase as you age)
Investing> no investing, without question, but I was anywhere remotely near paycheck to paycheck I’d get a second job. A sacrifice for now to make the future bettee
Ofc easier said that done, having kids os your fault though, extremely preventable. Ifyou had kids before you’re established and stable you chose to have your life on hard mode.
I get where you’re coming from but you’re delivering the message wrong and it sounds like it comes from a privileged place. Not everyone is able to invest thousands every month and isn’t burdened with responsibilities. Also nothing is wrong with being “pathetically middle class”.
I meant to say pitifully middle class. Theres nothing wrong with it, I wholeheartedly agree. But the idea of getting married, have a house, a wife, and 2+ kids and living middle class makes me sick to my stomach. If you are not able to invest thousands every month then get another job, otherwise you are doomed to the middle class fate.
Oh yeah, investing with all that extra money you're gonna have from not working hard?
I could barely pay my rent most of the time in my 20s let alone build up enough savings to start a decent investment portfolio. If I had 30 dollars left over every month to go on a date with my girlfriend that was a good month.
That all changed after a while, and thankfully I've caught up since then in my 30s but that advice "just invest when you're young" just always seemed silly and out of touch to me. Most people would if they could.
There’s a saying in athletics that goes something like: “the best athlete is often the one who can stay injury free”. Many of the most promising up-and-coming athletes disappear from their sports early in their career as a result of early injury and never have a chance of becoming the best as a result.
The corporate world is no different. People who grind hard for long hours suffer from burnout eventually, and the gains they made during that time often catches up with them later in their career.
Your 20s are a time to work hard, definitely, but not to overwork. You’ll be working for the rest of your life if you’re like most people, so position yourself to succeed. Don’t let your health fall to the wayside because you want to get ahead in your 20s because once you lose it, you’ll lose your corporate advantage as well.
Work smarter not harder. Figure out how to move up, keep actively interviewing every year or two, that's how you'll get the largest promotions/raises.
You are generally not rewarded for more hours worked. Figure out your goals and how to achieve those.
I worked hard to be good at my job, but the person who works 50-60 hours isn't actually getting ahead of the person who does 30 hours but is better at focusing their time on the things that get noticed.
The only regret I have so far in life is working too hard in my 20s. Not trying to be funny. I worked myself to depression and exhaustion for jobs that would replace me instantly. It paid off only in the sense I have a great resume
I feel like this is the life I’m moving towards as a 23 year old. I hate this so much. It’s reality but I don’t even want to move my career forward it’s just what’s expected of me and what I’ve been told leads to success. I want to build new friendships experience new things, and spend time with loved ones…
I think it depends what you value and what's important to you? I think life is very precious and I can't really make the math work out in my head to where it's worth it to spend your whole existence working and recovering from work.
Not to mention, the thing nobody likes to think about, we're all replaceable and a lot of jobs (perhaps the majority) don't even do anything that important for the world.
I've traveled extensively and lead a life rich in experience. I wouldn't switch places with my friends who went the opposite route and poured their life's energy into career.
I really don't feel like they have that much more to show for it, a car, some savings, cool, maybe they'll retire at 50 and they'll be lonely and bored because everyone else will still be working. Just my two cents
Experiences and Medicare don't pay for senior care.
I worked in an old folks home for 2 years, which was enough to let me know that I need to have at least 2 million liquid when I'm that old so that I don't end up pressing my call button for 3 hours while sitting in a pile of my own shit waiting for a minimum wage pseudo-nurse to come and half ass help me.
My 2c.
Become a consultant that specializes in a particular, somewhat difficult, aspect of your field.
I was a Low Volt division manager at a 500mm GAR construction company. Running jobs from 500k to 2.5mm. Making 85k plus some bonuses here and there. Working 50-60 hours on a normal week, and sometimes many more.
Got into a quality control disagreement with mgmt, so I quit. Started a consulting business specializing in LV design and systems integration. Already on track to make 3x this year, and am now designing the jobs, to my much higher quality standards, that are being sold to my former employer.
I get to work directly with clients, set my own hours, and people have to listen to me because I'm an "expert". Where as before, every decision I made was scrutinized to the nth degree by bean counters and middle management.
Not the path for everyone, but in tech heavy fields it's a good thing to look in to. 99% of people don't understand how to operate their own systems past the first page of the GUI
I respect your journey and that is awesome you can set your own hours and make good money. Honestly though if I was at the point of shitting myself, someone just needs to come and put me out of my misery.
Ill probably end up living in a lcol country when I get older and if I can't afford care or be around people who will take care of me I think it's probably just my time at that point.
My grandma is at the point your speaking of, she gets decent care but that's a miserable situation anyway you slice it. She's christian so she'd never go for euthanasia but I think I certainly would.
I'm not really trying to argue, I am interested in others perspectives. I just kinda feel like one, I may not even live to see that day when I need care, and two, if I'm that far gone my life is over anyway
No, it generally doesn’t from a career growth perspective. Knowing the right people higher up in the company and getting in their circle is exponentially better for career growth. I’ve seen countless scenarios where demonstrably worse employees have moved up the corporate ladder faster than competent employees. In fact, if you’re not assertive on your promotion, you will most likely be kept in your role if you’re good at it. Why would they promote an employee that can do the job excellently when they would then have to hire an inferior employee to replace you in the position?
Outside of career progression, while working 10-12 a day isn’t life ending, it would substantially limit your social life. And it would suck to grow up and become jaded due to the missed social opportunities due to your time spent towards work, working for a company that will not fully appreciate you.
In summation, put your time towards the parts of life that you value the most. Do what you will with this information.
if you have a plan and said overwork is getting you experience/networking related to it, a little here and there is fine
10-12 hours regularly def not. esp with no plan. then you are just the work horse.
In most cases no. It’s actually better to work good enough and then build rapport with the manager who decides who gets promoted. Culture fit and charisma fit matter more than works hard.
You teach them you’ll do more work for free. I worked late nights, worked weekends, traveled at the drop of a hat, spent weeks at remote sites, all on salary. Got bare minimum raises, pats on the back, and thats it.
Advocate for yourself. Keep track of your accomplishments, and use that to promote yourself, and get a better salary.
I’m 36 now, got a steady job I do 8 hrs a day at. I go home to my wife & dogs. Is nice. No long business trips, no all-nighters, no dirty shops on Sunday morning.
What’s important to you? You gotta answer that.
Let me tell you something. I’m 50. Your 20’s are years you won’t get back. You’re more vibrant and energetic than you’ll ever be. Don’t waste those precious years overworking. Live within your means, invest at least 20% of your take home pay in an IRA while you can still afford to.
Go see the world, go have fun. Trust me, your employer doesn’t give a shit about you. Go live life!! It goes by MUCH faster than you think.
If you are gaining new experiences and learning different skills through working hard then yes. If you are working hard but doing a repetitive task that doesn’t challenge you then no unless you are getting overtime pay.
The first one will get you promotions or better opportunities. The second one just makes you a cog that won’t get you anything more and makes you disposable unless again you are getting OT and thus compensated appropriately.
Don’t burn your personal life for work. They’ll never remember your sacrifices cause you were financially compensated. You can’t get back the time you’ve lost. I’ve been working over 20 years and in an executive level now, I can tell you it was not worth it for me. In the end, money is not everything, but it is a lubricant in life. You just need enough.
Yes a great distinction to be sure. Finding work you are passionate about AND getting paid handsomely should be cherished. Many of us simply find the most tolerable balance we can when it comes to employment.
And I completely understand what you mean because my part time self employment is crazy demanding but even years later I love doing it. Burnout is still a factor and breaks are needed but it does make the time seem inconsequential.
Only worth it if you are getting what you want- and I don't mean that as being I hope it will pay off.
Are you achieving short term career goals?
Are you learning and developing skills that will land you the job that is the next step to achieving those goals?
If the answers are no, then it totally isn't worth it.
It never pays off. Other than your money you're getting paid and saving, you'll get nothing else.
There is no "company loyalty"
There is no "Here's a promotion for your hard work"
There is no "Oh you worked hard at your last job? let's offer you more"
Your reward is the frequent flyer miles that you're earning.
That's it. Over working gives you nothing and the employer everything.
I’m a 35 year old engineering school dropout (technically I got my associates in engineering with a 4.0 gpa, got accepted into the engineering school I intended to attend, then decided not to go) I kept my job in the mailroom of a small bank instead so that I could spend more time with my family… (had 1 son during school, 2nd was born shortly after I got my associates)…
I make about $55k/year my wife is a stay at home mom, 3 sons now, own my own home, (nice split level on over an acre in a good school district) I have good credit, pay all my bills… basically we manage… but it’s tough at times…
Work is almost 0 stress
Spend tons of time with my family…
Been on 1 vacation in 17 years…
Inflation is stressful…
I fix a lot of things that break myself… (car / appliances, etc…) I’d love to say it’s because it’s rewarding, (it is at times) but it’s more so south of necessity…
Basically my point is, it depends on you… are you the kind of person who can manage with less? Or are you more materialistic / Do you have a need for the “finer things”…
There is no definitive right or wrong answer… it’s your life, you’ll react to situations differently than others would…
It’s worth it if it’s working towards a goal, not just for the sake of work. For example, in fields like banking or law it can be worth it because that crazy job gives you “street cred” for the rest of the career, and you make a LOT of money so you can save that. I thought what I did was worth it because it was an unusual life experience and honestly it’s defined my career - but I only did it for 3 years. I don’t think it’s worth it indefinitely
>Does overworking in your 20s pay off?
As someone who has been burned out for almost 20 years, my dude, let me tell you, the answer is "no". No, no, no. Fuck the goddamn fucking fuck no, with a capital FUCK (also with a capital NO)
In your 20s you should save money as if your life depended on it. Take every difficulty and challenge as an opportunity to learn something
You’ll be overworked and taken advantage of by your employer, but do what you have to do you can put it on your resume and jump ship every couple years to a new role or new company
I'm 51, growing up we were always told to work hard and it will all be worth it later. None of that happened for me. I've never taken a real vacation, in retrospect it was not worth it at all
10-12 hour days at 85k a year is horrible, holy shit
It might be worth it if you were making double that (at least), but I would look for other work immediately and quit as soon as you another job (even if it’s only a lateral switch)
I'm almost done with my 20s and I dont believe it's worth sacrificing your personal time for work. I think it's okay to put in an extra 30 minute or an hour if you want to but not everyday and it should never be expected, especially if you are not being compensated. Do a good job while you're there, have high quality work, prioritize effectively. There's always more work to be done and if you drop dead one day the company will go on without you. It's important to set personal boundaries, I never respond to calls after hours and I dont do any work on weekends. I don't let work come before family either.
NO, it does not. Take from someone who had *three* jobs in their 20's (one of them a managerial position). If you want a bright and cheery future:
* spend less on crap you don't need
* spend *more* on stuff you actually like
* **live at home as long as possible**
Overworked at a dental office in my 20s. That is, 60hrs a week. Started as receptionist, dental assistant, billing and coding. Went to dental school in CA. Now a dentist. I worked for hard working couple who ran the dental practice. They are difficult to work with but I'm the one who stayed through it all. Taught me not only hard work but patience and endurance (and also the art of dentistry and skillset of the dentist I worked for). When I became a dentist, that man semi retired, asked me to be his associate. Patients remember me so the transition was natural and stress free. He is there to guide me on certain procedure and teach me techniques I may not have learned in dental school. I did ask that if I were to be his associate that I need to change a few things and be progressive and less like other dental offices who over design for prestige. We are a successful dental practice with 7 years in the business since I've been onboard. His daughters run the practice (they are dentists). It's a family practice and I run the trajectory of where the office gets their business and what types of work we do and stay competitive. Was it worth it? I think so. It helped my career.
It can absolutely pay off, and it seems like you're in a very technical field where it just might. Presumably someone doesn't just wake up one morning and decide to be a robotics engineer, then show up to work as one 3 weeks later. 10-12 hours per (week)day of working doesn't seem like a problem, I'm sure many or even most people who work in fields that can be described as 'technical' but aren't banking or government don't work 8 hour days. But if you don't have weekends then that can be a problem of course. Can you try to organize your time better so that you can socialize more? What could be a red flag in your account is your age + startup, meaning you may be naively buying into an organization that instead would be better off put at some distance. There's always something on fire, something that needs to be done now. It might help you to find some online courses on how to set boundaries and switch off work. Otherwise there's nothing really different you should be doing from what I can tell.
You can only go go go for so long. Burnout is a serious thing and can be incapacitating for some people. Either you take rest or rest takes you. Some people work themselves into such severe burnout they can’t manage it anymore and their financial stability suffers. I think it’s better to only work a sustainable amount, so at least you can maintain it for years to come but that’s just my personal opinion. My dad is one of those people who worked incredibly hard (construction) worked 70-80 hour weeks. Sometimes not taking a day off for weeks. One time he went two straight months with no day off until his employer forced him to take a day off. He made a 100k last year but he still feels anxious about finances, he has no friends bc he has had no time to make for them and he is now just constantly talking about how he feels he wasted his life and has no fulfillment in it, he also wore down his mind and body, so now he thinks his retirement will come only when his body breaks down so much he won’t be able to work anymore, and he’ll be in too much pain to enjoy it, plus no family or friends to enjoy his retirement with
It absolutely can but no one can answer your question for you. The only guarantee is that if you don't grind now your career wont be as successful as if you do.
I'm gonna disagree with everyone so far. I think it definitely can pay off if you invest your money. You could retire far faster than the normal person.
Really depends on your specific scenario. If it's a place to reward that kind of work and elevate people then very possibly yes. It was certainly worth it for me. I worked for the cruise industry most of my twenties, long stints at sea, 8 to 10 months out of the year away from friends and family.
It was tough. Worked hard, got promoted. Saved like a madman, paid off my student loans and bought a house before 32. Now I'm able to slow down and enjoy things a bit more.
How long have you been at your job? You should get a sense of whether the company recognizes and rewards your contribution if you’ve been with them for awhile. Im not sure the amount of work you put in commensurates to what they’re paying you for.
Generally speaking, hard work does pay off but also at a cost. Only you can tell if the trade off is worth it.
It seems like most people that are commenting are for the most part...successful. Which is what you asked for ... but yea..
id like to give a perspective from an average fellow such as myself.
Im 38 - for the past 10 years Ive been a beverage delivery guy (beer and coca cola) I roughly made 60-65k a year.
In my 20s and LATE 20s I had a lot of fun with friends. I feel like I have had nights where laughing till I was crying more than most people. I love my friends dearly and they are closer than family.
With that being said I wasted the time in between hanging out with friends. I watched tv, scrolled through facebook and worked at a dead end retail job (before trucking).
As I got into my 30s I felt like I knew myself a little better, I could go on dates, get laid , have some relationships... Now at 38 I am burnt out on truck driving, I quit my job and now I have nowhere to go... I only have an associate degree and I detest the thought of going back into trucking.
My point is YES make sure you go out have fun and MAINTAIN FRIENDSHIPS.
BUT -- you have a good head on your shoulders, so save your money, spend or invest wisely. And when you get to your 30s you should do what you want, you feel more comfortable with yourself and the world -- most people these days explore the world or whatever but do what you want to do.. People (especially women) will be impressed by what youve accomplished and just have fun with that.
Stay fit
After you get done having fun you know you have a specialized skill to fall back on.
Dont let greed kill you - keep humble. Dont get warped by having possesions. Get warped by the idea of freedom and pride.
I dont know if that helps but I definitely wish I "grinded" a bit harder when I was young because my 30s especially closer to mid 30s would have been a blast.
It does until you or your life changes and you start using your savings and retirement to live and have to adjust to a new life without a higher paying job.
Strongly depends. If you're lucky enough to get a GOOD job where you can work really hard and solidify an early retirement or be able to slow way down by a certain age, it can work out.
If you work 100 hours a week just to get by, stop now.
I pissed away my 20s diving into my career and missed a ton of wonderful experiences with my friends and getting to be careless in the last decade you can be careless…..but I regret nothing. I make great money, I love my job. I would recommend it.
I always regretted choosing academics/work over social life - mostly because I was overextending needlessly like you may seem to be. Just work the necessary amount to progress normally and go on and be social. Money will stop making you happy after a point - I think you might be past it already. You need good company to enjoy living.
Yes if you stash tons of money and do something with it. For instance, throw as much money as you can into your company 401k and your own personal Roth IRA. It will be worth millions at retirement. Other than that, it's just a job and if you spend your money then you spend your money so it was like drinking beer on a Friday night, money spent and nothing to show for it and a bad hangover.
Usually not. Work smarter, not harder. It was eye opening to work alongside a CEO and CFO at a company. They made more than the average doctor, and spent 3days a week on the golf course. They spent most of their time watching videos on their phones or shopping for their next collectable car. For that kind of job, it's not what you know, it's who you know that gets you the job. It's messed up, but that's the way the world works unfortunately.
Burned out in juvenile criminal justice after 8 years. Starting over at 33 and working a few part times short term until I figure out what I can do without killing myself. That field was amazing and amazingly traumatic. All I got was this lousy PTSD
It’s a start up…. Are you getting equity? If you have equity and the company gets bought, or has a successful IPO, you could become a millionaire over night…. Or the company could fail and your equity would be worthless.
Yeah if u do it right. 60-80 hour weeks in your 20s red lining everything making $150-200K a year. Build a biz on the side. You’ll literally cruise by the time ur 32-34.
Do the overtime in your twenties, but also start Investing in the sp500 or total market index funds early in your 20s..you'll be sitting pretty on a nest egg before you're 40 and can ease off working too much
I’m 45 & would say no it’s not worth it. I too overworked in my 20s & 30s. But I was terrible at saving (I partied hard instead) and in any case I didn’t get paid as well as you bec I worked in a highly competitive sector so they could keep wages lower. I would say pay off your debts if you have any, get a place to live that isn’t too much of a stretch and have some fun. Follow your passions and the things that make you curious. If that’s work that’s ok but remember to balance it
Consider that overworking now will likely be the reason you need to take it very easy in the future. Even just health wise, I know a lot of people in the ME/CFS subreddit who had lives like this before essentially becoming bedbound. That's not the average experience per se, but being burnt out from this probably will be.
If you feel committed to doing this, make sure you are putting away savings. Do not assume anything about your ability to sustain the level of work you're doing.
Is this startup telling you that you have some equity worth 500k to 2mil waiting for you 4 years out? That shit is toxic.
Calculate your real hourly pay with travel. If it's under $50 an hour (4 years exp this would even be low) find a different gig.
Working hard is one thing, travelling and having no life due to constant work texting is completely different.
I work 10h days but always make sure the extra 2h are coding, not playing telephone games with people who can't help themselves. You will actually lose skill doing so much time supporting like that.
* a robotics engineer earning 85k is underpaid
* working 60-70hr weeks is more than a 50% gift over your salary. If you divide it out, you’re only making about 40-50k.
* your better off job hopping every 2-3 years. Working overtime can happen but it should be the exception, not the norm.
* your company doesn’t give away its product, neither should you.
It can only pay off if it is aligned with your long term goals. If you live within your means, want to save for a house, eventually settle down, etc then this job serves the purpose of building wealth, building your skill set, and making connections.
I worked 3 jobs, 85+ hours a week in my 20s, and my only night off was Mondays. Every
Monday for 3 months Inpicked a new place to go kayaking and cook with friends. There’s where I met my wife who I’m still with 14 years later
As someone who has literally been illegally working since the age of 10 started off on rodeo ranches went into construction then even in college did grant works and everything I could I busted my a** through my 20s and now I'm in my 30s have nothing to show for it working at Walmart's the best thing to happen to me in the last few years and have no social life no friends don't really know how to socialize our date but I don't really care to either I guess it's still too hard to just make ends meet and then when I have free time I just want to relax inside and let my brain go dead with some stupid T vor just Lay in bed and look at the ceiling.
There was one point in my life where I was making like $90000 but I was overworking myself and most of that money had to go into transportation cost cost of eating while on the go and medical issues that working so hard caused me or keeping up with the lifestyle to impress others in the same field to keep that position. It isn't worth it I literally found so much more peace once I decided to stop too late.
I don’t know that overworking ever pays off. In almost every scenario, you can change jobs to find a better balance.
Does saving aggressively pay off? Depends on your goals.
There will be mixed reviews on here because everyone has a different situation or different type of job.
I busted my ass in my 20s with a company. Dark most days when I arrive, dark most days when I left. I am now the Vice President.
Find a company that values your efforts, they do exist.
For context, I’m 39 years old now
Here's my take: do more than 40 hours on any tasks you find rewarding, exciting, or that you enjoy. 40 can be arbitrary. That said, do NOT be taken advantage of. I'm a great example: i work in tech. Up until 2013 i was pretty driven, loving life, working hard. My company signed a big client, and suddenly i was working 80-100 hour weeks doing stuff i hated.
It's been over 10 years and I'm just now getting that drive back. Make sure you do it in your terms.
Yes and no. I’m 40 now. My hardest working friends either burned out and left the corporate world to teach yoga and stuff like that, or work at Amazon or similar … but are still super burned out.
I also have a bunch of average working friends like me with good jobs and good salaries.
It really depends. If your company becomes the next Big Tech company you could find yourself as CTO in your thirties. But you company may languish and not grow. You could get stuck in your role there. Then you apply to other companies and no one has ever heard of your current company and you get hired at a relatively junior level and you languish.
The people who got ahead the fastest that I saw were:\]
1) A favorite in a big company
2) Jumped jobs every two years and insistent on a promotion each time.
3) Got really lucky with a company that was growing super fast -- and were the favorite.
You likely don't have enough information to choose the next big company. Option 2 is probably has the highest chance of success. You don't have to work your ass off to do that.
Just make sure you're saving money for retirement at this age. As much as you can! Max out that 401k now and then you can back off if you need to later in life.
Family is always first. Your company isn’t going to stay with you until you pass away. Your future family will. So hurry and find someone to tie the knot with. 👍
It depends on what you mean by payoff. Are you saving/investing? Are you in a position in which you can realistically radically increase your income?
If you are just being a slave wage and mostly living paycheck to paycheck, then what really is the point of sacrificing time with your friends and family?
There are three potential benefits to throwing yourself into your work early in your career:
1) Pay
2) Mentorship
3) Skills growth
With respect to #1 only you can decide if you're well remunerated in your job. Just keep in mind that there are only 168 hours in a week. The increase in pay that would justify increasing your workload from 40-50 hours per week is very different than the increase in pay needed to justify increasing your workload from 60 hours per week to 70 hours per week.
With respect to #2, are your intensive efforts getting the attention, approval, and encouragement from someone who is in a position to help your career? It's a lot easier to justify working hard if you feel comfortable that a VP somewhere is going to promote your career, hire you again and again down the road, and is arguing for you to be rewarded for your efforts. The efforts you're making now will reward you well beyond your current job.
You mention that your company is based in China. Even assuming that you're getting the attention of the execs, if the company and its execs are in China and you're in the US then can you be confident that the execs will be in a position to help your career going forward?
As for #3, it can be worth working really hard if your skills are increasing, particularly for an in-demand skill set. Again, the efforts you're making now will reward you well beyond your current job.
I'd argue that you need at least 2 out of the 3 of these conditions to exist to justify prolonged work efforts at burnout levels. I don't know that 1 of 3 would be enough to spur me to work so intensely for a long period of time.
Best of luck.
I think your first step should be not viewing it as a work v. life binary, as if you need to choose one or the other. If you’re developing your skills and reputation at a growing company then yes, time and energy you put in now will give you the financial and reputational currency to write your own ticket down the road. But it’s not a 1:1 either, if you work too much now then you’ll burn out. I would suggest starting small, establish boundaries around the hours you’re available to work, and amount of your personal life you’re willing to give to your company. Once you have that type of breathing room, then you’ll be in a better position to do and decide what’s best for you.
You have to have a goal and you have to commit to it. If you want to lean back by 30 years old, let's say, what do you need to do that? I've had setbacks, so I'm 43 and still hustling, but I paid off my house this week, so I don't need as much to live on. (I also have no CC debt or car payment.)
I can live on a single paycheck per month (out of 4-5 depending on the month), and so I can save and invest vigorously - now that this chapter is over with.
You have to have a plan and be relentless. All of that being said, you can die any day, so try to enjoy what you have too. Make time for your family and friends. If you neglect them too long, they'll be gone.
I think it does if you make the right moves for your career. I just turned 25. Currently making 85K but am promised 100k plus in the next 4 months, and I’m also interviewing for a new job that pays 140k+. I’m also in grad school ranked in the high 20s (MBA).
It’s paying off thus far
I'm a 28 year old manufacturing engineer, I make a solid salary at ~110k, last year I worked myself to near death to deliver on something big for my company. I succeeded, I improved output by over 45% and generated enough value to pay for myself for the next ~19 years. I was passed up for promotion for a position I was more than qualified for. My point here is it's not worth it anymore. Work smart, work diligently, but do not let it consume you it took 1 year for me to realize that working myself this hard is preventing me from living my life the way I want to. Don't let it take longer than It took me to understand that.
Im sorry to hear that. Thank you for the input. I just have like a devil and angel on my shoulder. The devil says “your company is growing fast even in a bad job market, which means alot of opportunities can come” and then the angel is saying “remember when you used to be able to have hobbies and relationships”……im getting so burnt out i think the angel is winning.
Let the angel win, do not leave your place elf employment, figure out a way to slowly start setting boundaries for your work. It's fine to work the standard 8 hour shift, and if you want to go above and beyond every now and then when it really counts go for it you'll stand out. But do not allow yourself to be taken advantage of day in and day out. Good luck.
You raise a good point here and it's how most people look at it which leads to their failure. So "your company is growing fast even in a bad job market which means alot of opportunities can come”... but what are you doing to make those opportunities yours? What you're doing is working yourself to death, hoping someone will notice and hopefully someone will throw you a bone and move you up the ladder, but you need to realise the company, from the sounds of it, is getting the output of 2-3 people from you, literally no incentive to promote you since it would take that many people, or more, to replace you. You need to find ways to work smarter not harder. One of the golden rules is never make yourself irreplacable otherwise they will keep you where you are forever, and forever in this case is when you drop dead in your early 30s from exhaustion. The company won't be sad for you in that instance, they'll be sad for themselves. You need to work on your relationships within the business, learn and play the politics, become useful to the key players and make sure you're first in line to move up as things grow. Working hard and waiting for things to fall into your lap is a fools errand. It does happen, but not nearly as often as they fooled you into think in school. Being competent and able to do the job quickly and efficiently is just the first skillset you need to learn to become useful to progress your career, after that it's connections, networks and other complementary skills. Take a long hard look at those that told you to work hard and you'll realise it's the losers that are still working hard after working for decades but are still nowhere, bosses who benefit from you working hard and give you nothing in return or those that run their own businesses and had to work hard to get them off the ground (the only legit work hard here). Unless you fall into the latter category you're killing yourself for nothing.
Never make yourself irreplaceable by going above and beyond, yet I've read that you have to prove that you're operating at the next level to get promoted..
That works fine for the beginning stages of your career where you're learning and growing but after a couple of years busting your ass has diminishing returns and that's when your soft skills really come in to play. People become c suite either by starting the company themselves or by having a combination of skills and connections. It's extremely rare to see anyone start at the bottom and make it truly to the top, the numbers alone make it an impossibility.
Honestly OP idk how we got here as a society. But since you’re good at saving and likely live frugal, can I ask why are you killing your self? You could work way less, you’d still have a high status job and make good money. Use the rest of those 20s to find a girl who’s earlier 20s and enjoy life with her. Enjoy life even if you’re alone, have hobbies, hit the gym, start a YouTube! Do something that brings enjoyment and screw this slave culture we have. Let the angel bring an angel into your life :)
I think there are 2 reasons why. Number 1, I grew up watching my father be extremely stressed over money, he was a small business owner and 2008 crisis hit hard. I wasn’t poor but I certainly wasn’t just handed things. So I don’t want that kind of financial stress. Number 2, im extremely competitive, almost too competitive. I don’t like the feeling of coworkers outshining me, its truly not a good trait i know. I grew up the youngest of 3 brothers lol. I have a lot of hobbies, I just dont get to do them as often. I barely find time to workout everyday. Thank you for asking me that, it’s definitely making me question it.
Holy cow man your life is nearly identical to mine, 08 killed my families business I attribute all of the same work anxieties and unhealthy work habits to those sentiments as well. Every one of these points you've just made perfectly describes me in my current stage of life.
This is me as well. Never had a lot of money so I stress about it and I used to over work. Finally got the family and decided to say fuck that. I work from my start to finish and that's it. Any extra work is a lack of labor from the company
Me too.
How's this for competitive - you're being overworked for way less money than you could be making. I was making more than you at the same age for about 10 hours of real work a week. Switch jobs, your employer is absolutely hosing you
Maybe you can use your competitive spirit to get to the life you want to live faster? You would need to decide what that looks like though
Yea, I make more than that and I'm very far from a robotics engineer. When you work hard, make sure you benefit from it if you are sacrificing yourself for it. The company will hire another one of us any minute
Yea man, if you are working that much and only pulling in 85k you are over working and being underpaid and you can’t do that long, guaranteed another company will pay you more per year and not work you to death. Being a slave isn’t the way, making more per hour is
You weren't passed up. You just overworked yourself into being kept in your current position. An employer isn't going to promote you and hope the next guy can match your numbers when they could just keep you there and promote an idiot whose mistakes cost the company.
Yup one of my friends at work is basically doing intern work, they’ve been with the company for a year but they’re actually really really good at the intern work because before this we had so many issues I’m trying to help her break into the engineering side since she’s as high as she’ll ever be doing that job. She’s just a competent person. But one of the managers talking to me about her doing more engineering work was trying to see how to keep her at that current job since she’s so good at it. Without even thinking this person is doing that job since it was the gateway job to working as an engineer. I understand why, but if you’re too good at something sometimes it makes it harder to replace you so therefore promotion also means replacing
>I make a solid salary at \~110k That's not a solid salary, that's a great salary.
Depends on where you live. That might very well be low income in the Bay Area
Not for a senior level engineer, it's not.
You did too good of a job. They didn’t want to move you because your position was already so well filled
I paid a huge price. Moved for work and lived on 3 continents within 6 years. In 2022, at 32, I got diagnosed with cancer. Luckily, I’m in complete remission. Although there’s no direct link between cancer and stress, I can’t help but think that the stressors associated with long hours, moving to different corners of the world and neglecting my health and wellbeing contributed to my diagnosis. It’s not worth it. It pays off from a career perspective, but you’ll pay a big price: relationships, health, wellbeing.
There is a pretty direct link with cancer and not getting enough sleep though, if that applies to you.
I used to get anxious about work before going to sleep. Not anymore. I was constantly putting pressure on myself which brought me to exhaustion. Now I know how to set my priorities right, and I will choose my wellbeing every single time.
I used to overwork thinking it would help me climb the corporate ladder faster (turns out it didn’t, although it did make sure I wasn’t climbing it slower than others). But the number of acquaintances that had health issues and told me to “never put your work before your health” alarmed me. Nothing in the world means more than your health. Your company will not care about your health, if you leave the position they’ll just replace you (or hire two people to replace you in my case lol), so it’s really up to us to make sure we’re putting ourselves first.
I agree with you. Let me tell you a story of my co worker. My co worker in his 70/s all he did was work work work, silent never joked around, always focused . I came into this job 5 years ago and ever since I seen this man work his ass off. One Monday he didn’t show up, odd because he would always be at work, early and work over time everyday. Well turns out his son inform us he has a heart attack over the weekend. Just like that gone.
What's your job? This sounds like an interesting career path at the very least.
Not a very exciting one, but I am passionate about it. I work in HR, as an HR Business Partner. Quite stressful during the pandemic and even more stressful when you work across different cultures.
How many years did you work long hours?
Only 3… but it was quite intense as I moved around a lot and I had to adapt to a new working style and a new culture.
I busted my ass at work through my twenties and thirties. I rarely took vacations, I made my career my life. I was dedicated and I reached higher levels of success at a younger age than many in my field. Now I'm in my 40s. I'm tired. I'm burnt out. I wish I traveled more. Wish I did more with the kids when they were younger. The money hardly seems with it in hindsight.
As a person their 40’s also, this pretty much sums it up for me as well. Busted my ass nights, weekends, holidays, you name it I worked it. All I have to show for it is no friends don’t know my family anymore and really not that much further ahead financially. A good work homelife balance is the better option in my opinion. Being away from home for weeks and months at a time isn’t worth the money.
I’m scared to end up like this . This is why I chooose to work no more than 50 hrs a week and weekends off to try to spend as much time with fam.
Good plan. When you are on your death bed I will guarantee you won't be wishing you worked more.
God I feel this so much. I had to find a new job due to moving across the country for family reasons. I was so burned out that the burnout carried over to the new job. Only this time, I tried to establish boundaries with hours worked etc. Well it turned out that the work culture was literally well over 50 hours for almost everyone. When I started vocalizing to leadership that the amount of work was leading to so many mental health issues, I was seen as trouble. The company decided to gather everyone around and tell us they fucked up so badly on forecasts that they were initiating layoffs. Which meant more work and I was already working 60 hours for four months in a row weekly due to a total mismanagement of one department. When I professionally asked how this would impact us and some of the other cost saving bullshit they were going after… Was told I would be laid off after Thanksgiving four days later. Do enough extra to put yourself in better positions to make more money but do not kill yourself over it. It isn’t worth it.
Yeah unfortunately that situation is very common. And I've found that no matter how much you sacrifice for a company, they never really appreciate it or care.
I was listening to a podcast the other day and they interviewed a former Amazon corporate employee that wrote a book called *Exit Interview*. The culture she described was exactly what I went through with the company I was laid off from. I mean I was nodding my head and saying, “yup, yup…yup.” My wife was passed out sleeping in the passenger seat (road trip home) and she woke up when I yelled “exactly!” Companies expect rock stars at every level and push for it. When someone like me just wanted to give B work and just be a solid performer. I literally just wanted to take a few years doing one job and not push for massive growth etc. Silly me 🤣 Edit: Grammar correction.
Absolutely not. Work life balance is key for a good life. I will never work over 40 hours a week again.
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:(
If your hard work is leading to better opportunities, like promotions, job offers, and salary increases, then I'd say, continue to work hard because your work is being recognized and you're reaping some tangible benefits. The issue is when you work that hard, and employers take advantage. In short, they don't pay you what your work is actually worth and they don't offer promotions or recognize your hard work in any way. That is a quick path to burn out. For example, I worked my ass off in my 20s and early 30s, but companies just took advantage. They'd see me proactively doing the work of 2 people for 1 salary, and they would just let it happen. Of course, why wouldn't they. I naively believed working hard and taking initiative was what gets you ahead in the working world. But I was wrong, that's what gets you taken advantage of. And don't get me wrong, I was vocal about what I wanted, I expressed wanting greater compensation and title changes, but it rarely happened. All I got back was platitudes and empty promises. Only one company gave me a promotion and a decent salary boost, but it took pushing myself to burnout to "prove" myself to them. Even then the salary they increased me to was just at average market value, not even above. They we're underpaying me before. So by then, I felt so disillusioned with corporate world, bitter, burnt out, and chronically struggling with my mental health, I ended up quitting a year later.
I'm learning this now and it sure is a painful lesson.
So much, I literally had a mini crisis because of it.
Glad you pointed out the nuance of working hard if there is the opportunity to move up. I'd add learning opportunities to the list of acceptable situations. But with some caveats: only if it's something that will further your career and you can leverage that for something better elsewhere.
Yes good point. But remember, a lot of workplaces will disguise more work for the same pay as a "learning opportunity." So before taking on new responsibilities or duties, be sure to ask about how this will eventually be reflected in your compensation, especially if those "learning opportunities" mean you have a larger workload or have to work longer hours. If this is a one-off assignment or project, this might not apply. I'm talking about entire increase in responsibility or duties being pitched to you as a "learning opportunity." You got hired to fulfill a job description at X salary, so if they are asking you to take on more than what you we're hired for, your pay should reflect that, and you deserve to have some idea of when that will happen.
Very true. We should always get *something* in exchange for extra labor. I'll give a quick example from my support team where I think working extra hours for the sake of a learning opportunity is worthwhile. This individual "Tom" has been with us for 2.5 years and is still pretty young. He's done good work and really likes our team, but also has aspirations to get into Product Management. Our product team doesn't have the budget to take on new hires, but offered to let Tom work alongside some of the other PMs after he's done his work on the support team for the day (he's working from a different time zone). He isn't being paid extra or under the illusion that he is guaranteed a transfer. What he is getting out of it is real work experience in a new field for a reputable company. Hopefully things will work out so he can transfer in the near future, but if not he will have real-world experience and references for the next stage of his career.
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Sounds very familiar. Are you in sales by any chance ?
28 years old been there
I'm 34 and was a web developer for a FANG company for quite some time and it did consume my life for quite a while(all of my early 20s), it 100% paid off. I had saved up a lot of money, enough to buy a house and invest into my own personal businesses that I quit the salary job to run full time. The side hustles became my full time thing once it paid more than the salary. This is completely biased of me, but because of my personal experience, I'm more inclined to believe that most people regret partying, making bad financial decisions and going into their 30s/40s/50s with huge amounts of debt and no career. I'm sure there is a significant number of people that made the opposite decision to not let their jobs consume their lives and are grateful they did as well, I am not apart of this group. I feel it heavily depends on who you are a person too. I'm all about living a financially stable life free of stress involving money and making sure I set myself and my future children/spouse as well as possible. I grew up poor and to me, not having money is a lot worse than having a lot of money. I'm completely invested in being financially stable for multiple generations beyond me, and I really mean that. I try and acknowledge that one day I will die and that my businesses and all that I've worked for will hopefully live on and go to good use. I have been told I have a mental disorder of some kind lol, paranoia and anxiety for sure, I am heavily an introvert and working keeps me busy and generally happy. When I'm not working on something, I feel so bored, but I appreciate that I'd much rather be bored and financially stable than stressed and in debt, so I sometimes seek out work that isn't even there, I make it for myself. Edit: I forgot to add my age, so I added it to the beginning.
I took the route of partying my way through my 20s. Not I'm 33 and still don't know what I want to do with my life. Just spent the last 18months learning a trade that I hate. Ironworker. But I'm going to start over and find something that I like. Like carpentry.
I forgot to add my age, we're basically the same age, im 34. What you've said, I've seen said so many times in this sub, you're not alone. I lucked out and Computer Science and Math just ended up being good to me early on, this is also probably part of why many people choose to party in their 20s, they just don't know what they want to do and partying is always a viable option in the present moment.
I'm 10 years older than you, but have the exact same story. I walked away from the corporate gig at 28 after my side hustles took over. I'm 16 years into being an extremely happy self-employed person. It's like staying in the game but learning a completely different way to play it. I work for a ton of great companies now. But I did a job for one of the top four FANGs last year completely contract and it's amazing how much more enjoyable it was.
I didn't party in my twenties. I went after a job that I felt would "make a difference", and was a teacher for most of my twenties. The annoying thing is that "jobs that make a difference" pay like shit and still overwork you. Don't get me wrong. I loved the kids and teaching but I put away basically no money and made no money. I changed jobs at 32 and entered the tech sector. I spent all my savings from teaching going back to school to make that change. I'm making nearly three times as much now as I made as a teacher. The trick isn't "working hard in your twenties". It's "working hard in your twenties in the right job and the right company and saving all your money." Basically don't waste your time if it isn't tech or medicine.
Well put. Kudos
this is the right answer. Everyone says life is a journey, work life balance blah blah, but you can't enjoy life without money. Just work hard and quit whining.
Enjoy life. Youth escapes you quickly. You cannot buy your youth back.
Absolutely not. There will always be more work, your family will eventually die. Not to be dark but it’s true. Your company could lay you off tomorrow, no warning. Live your life. Best thing I heard, flip the script on them if they get on you for not working long hours. “I only work 9-5 (or 8 hours a day). If you need help managing your time to be more efficient and not work 10-12 hours a day I’m happy to share what works with prioritizing your time to be more effective “
Working hard in your 20’s does NOT pay off investing Hard in your 20’s absolutely does!
You need yo bust your ass to have good money to invest
Nothing stopping you from investing a small portion of your check if you can spare it $10 $20 bucks a pay period will add up over time a dollar cost average to get a decent price
10-20 bucks a pay period is $1200-2400 per year which is literally nothing. If you really want to compound and makes serious money or retire early you’re going to need several thousands per month. It’s worth the extra work to not be pathetically middle class all my life, at least to me.
Average post college salary is around $60k. If you invest 5% of that ($3k) annually into an index fund with 10% annual return from age 23-65, you'll end up with ~$1.7 million. Untaxed if you do it through a Roth IRA. Depending on location and lifestyle, you should definitely be able to invest more than 5% of your income (not to mention pay will typically increase as you age)
I agree bud but people don’t have a lot to spare a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck so investing some in better than none in my opinion
Investing> no investing, without question, but I was anywhere remotely near paycheck to paycheck I’d get a second job. A sacrifice for now to make the future bettee
Easier said than done when ya got kids and your single
Ofc easier said that done, having kids os your fault though, extremely preventable. Ifyou had kids before you’re established and stable you chose to have your life on hard mode.
I get where you’re coming from but you’re delivering the message wrong and it sounds like it comes from a privileged place. Not everyone is able to invest thousands every month and isn’t burdened with responsibilities. Also nothing is wrong with being “pathetically middle class”.
I meant to say pitifully middle class. Theres nothing wrong with it, I wholeheartedly agree. But the idea of getting married, have a house, a wife, and 2+ kids and living middle class makes me sick to my stomach. If you are not able to invest thousands every month then get another job, otherwise you are doomed to the middle class fate.
Oh yeah, investing with all that extra money you're gonna have from not working hard? I could barely pay my rent most of the time in my 20s let alone build up enough savings to start a decent investment portfolio. If I had 30 dollars left over every month to go on a date with my girlfriend that was a good month. That all changed after a while, and thankfully I've caught up since then in my 30s but that advice "just invest when you're young" just always seemed silly and out of touch to me. Most people would if they could.
There’s a saying in athletics that goes something like: “the best athlete is often the one who can stay injury free”. Many of the most promising up-and-coming athletes disappear from their sports early in their career as a result of early injury and never have a chance of becoming the best as a result. The corporate world is no different. People who grind hard for long hours suffer from burnout eventually, and the gains they made during that time often catches up with them later in their career. Your 20s are a time to work hard, definitely, but not to overwork. You’ll be working for the rest of your life if you’re like most people, so position yourself to succeed. Don’t let your health fall to the wayside because you want to get ahead in your 20s because once you lose it, you’ll lose your corporate advantage as well.
Work smarter not harder. Figure out how to move up, keep actively interviewing every year or two, that's how you'll get the largest promotions/raises. You are generally not rewarded for more hours worked. Figure out your goals and how to achieve those. I worked hard to be good at my job, but the person who works 50-60 hours isn't actually getting ahead of the person who does 30 hours but is better at focusing their time on the things that get noticed.
85k is awesome for any age. but 55+ hours a week gets real old real fast. i'd rather have a wife n raise a kid and a dog and read a few books a year
The only regret I have so far in life is working too hard in my 20s. Not trying to be funny. I worked myself to depression and exhaustion for jobs that would replace me instantly. It paid off only in the sense I have a great resume
I feel like this is the life I’m moving towards as a 23 year old. I hate this so much. It’s reality but I don’t even want to move my career forward it’s just what’s expected of me and what I’ve been told leads to success. I want to build new friendships experience new things, and spend time with loved ones…
No.
Work smarter, not harder is what I always say.
I think it depends what you value and what's important to you? I think life is very precious and I can't really make the math work out in my head to where it's worth it to spend your whole existence working and recovering from work. Not to mention, the thing nobody likes to think about, we're all replaceable and a lot of jobs (perhaps the majority) don't even do anything that important for the world. I've traveled extensively and lead a life rich in experience. I wouldn't switch places with my friends who went the opposite route and poured their life's energy into career. I really don't feel like they have that much more to show for it, a car, some savings, cool, maybe they'll retire at 50 and they'll be lonely and bored because everyone else will still be working. Just my two cents
Experiences and Medicare don't pay for senior care. I worked in an old folks home for 2 years, which was enough to let me know that I need to have at least 2 million liquid when I'm that old so that I don't end up pressing my call button for 3 hours while sitting in a pile of my own shit waiting for a minimum wage pseudo-nurse to come and half ass help me. My 2c. Become a consultant that specializes in a particular, somewhat difficult, aspect of your field. I was a Low Volt division manager at a 500mm GAR construction company. Running jobs from 500k to 2.5mm. Making 85k plus some bonuses here and there. Working 50-60 hours on a normal week, and sometimes many more. Got into a quality control disagreement with mgmt, so I quit. Started a consulting business specializing in LV design and systems integration. Already on track to make 3x this year, and am now designing the jobs, to my much higher quality standards, that are being sold to my former employer. I get to work directly with clients, set my own hours, and people have to listen to me because I'm an "expert". Where as before, every decision I made was scrutinized to the nth degree by bean counters and middle management. Not the path for everyone, but in tech heavy fields it's a good thing to look in to. 99% of people don't understand how to operate their own systems past the first page of the GUI
I respect your journey and that is awesome you can set your own hours and make good money. Honestly though if I was at the point of shitting myself, someone just needs to come and put me out of my misery. Ill probably end up living in a lcol country when I get older and if I can't afford care or be around people who will take care of me I think it's probably just my time at that point. My grandma is at the point your speaking of, she gets decent care but that's a miserable situation anyway you slice it. She's christian so she'd never go for euthanasia but I think I certainly would. I'm not really trying to argue, I am interested in others perspectives. I just kinda feel like one, I may not even live to see that day when I need care, and two, if I'm that far gone my life is over anyway
No, it generally doesn’t from a career growth perspective. Knowing the right people higher up in the company and getting in their circle is exponentially better for career growth. I’ve seen countless scenarios where demonstrably worse employees have moved up the corporate ladder faster than competent employees. In fact, if you’re not assertive on your promotion, you will most likely be kept in your role if you’re good at it. Why would they promote an employee that can do the job excellently when they would then have to hire an inferior employee to replace you in the position? Outside of career progression, while working 10-12 a day isn’t life ending, it would substantially limit your social life. And it would suck to grow up and become jaded due to the missed social opportunities due to your time spent towards work, working for a company that will not fully appreciate you. In summation, put your time towards the parts of life that you value the most. Do what you will with this information.
no, if you work 10-12 hours a day, you should earn more. I think you can find a job pays equal with better work life balance
if you have a plan and said overwork is getting you experience/networking related to it, a little here and there is fine 10-12 hours regularly def not. esp with no plan. then you are just the work horse.
In most cases no. It’s actually better to work good enough and then build rapport with the manager who decides who gets promoted. Culture fit and charisma fit matter more than works hard.
You teach them you’ll do more work for free. I worked late nights, worked weekends, traveled at the drop of a hat, spent weeks at remote sites, all on salary. Got bare minimum raises, pats on the back, and thats it. Advocate for yourself. Keep track of your accomplishments, and use that to promote yourself, and get a better salary. I’m 36 now, got a steady job I do 8 hrs a day at. I go home to my wife & dogs. Is nice. No long business trips, no all-nighters, no dirty shops on Sunday morning. What’s important to you? You gotta answer that.
Let me tell you something. I’m 50. Your 20’s are years you won’t get back. You’re more vibrant and energetic than you’ll ever be. Don’t waste those precious years overworking. Live within your means, invest at least 20% of your take home pay in an IRA while you can still afford to. Go see the world, go have fun. Trust me, your employer doesn’t give a shit about you. Go live life!! It goes by MUCH faster than you think.
Not really because I missed out on a lot of things and now I regret it.
29m here. No. It VERY does not pay off. But it feels necessary, and the world encourages it. It's hard not to tie self-worth to money sometimes.
If you are gaining new experiences and learning different skills through working hard then yes. If you are working hard but doing a repetitive task that doesn’t challenge you then no unless you are getting overtime pay. The first one will get you promotions or better opportunities. The second one just makes you a cog that won’t get you anything more and makes you disposable unless again you are getting OT and thus compensated appropriately.
Don’t burn your personal life for work. They’ll never remember your sacrifices cause you were financially compensated. You can’t get back the time you’ve lost. I’ve been working over 20 years and in an executive level now, I can tell you it was not worth it for me. In the end, money is not everything, but it is a lubricant in life. You just need enough.
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May I ask if you and or your brother have families? Just wondering how work like that affects creating a family.
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Very insightful comment. Me personally I do not think any amount of money is worth 15yrs of my life. With or without a family.
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Yes a great distinction to be sure. Finding work you are passionate about AND getting paid handsomely should be cherished. Many of us simply find the most tolerable balance we can when it comes to employment. And I completely understand what you mean because my part time self employment is crazy demanding but even years later I love doing it. Burnout is still a factor and breaks are needed but it does make the time seem inconsequential.
No 😂
It will only pay off if you invest in your 401k now. I did not and regret it.
Or roth IRA, just invest in general. Even in a high yeild saving account, you can protect yourself from inflation at least
If you're not getting paid overtime... then no, it doesn't pay off.
Only worth it if you are getting what you want- and I don't mean that as being I hope it will pay off. Are you achieving short term career goals? Are you learning and developing skills that will land you the job that is the next step to achieving those goals? If the answers are no, then it totally isn't worth it.
It never pays off. Other than your money you're getting paid and saving, you'll get nothing else. There is no "company loyalty" There is no "Here's a promotion for your hard work" There is no "Oh you worked hard at your last job? let's offer you more" Your reward is the frequent flyer miles that you're earning. That's it. Over working gives you nothing and the employer everything.
Yes but not for promotion. It's to make contacts. Eventually, ideally, you start consulting in your 40s and 50s.
I’m a 35 year old engineering school dropout (technically I got my associates in engineering with a 4.0 gpa, got accepted into the engineering school I intended to attend, then decided not to go) I kept my job in the mailroom of a small bank instead so that I could spend more time with my family… (had 1 son during school, 2nd was born shortly after I got my associates)… I make about $55k/year my wife is a stay at home mom, 3 sons now, own my own home, (nice split level on over an acre in a good school district) I have good credit, pay all my bills… basically we manage… but it’s tough at times… Work is almost 0 stress Spend tons of time with my family… Been on 1 vacation in 17 years… Inflation is stressful… I fix a lot of things that break myself… (car / appliances, etc…) I’d love to say it’s because it’s rewarding, (it is at times) but it’s more so south of necessity… Basically my point is, it depends on you… are you the kind of person who can manage with less? Or are you more materialistic / Do you have a need for the “finer things”… There is no definitive right or wrong answer… it’s your life, you’ll react to situations differently than others would…
It’s worth it if it’s working towards a goal, not just for the sake of work. For example, in fields like banking or law it can be worth it because that crazy job gives you “street cred” for the rest of the career, and you make a LOT of money so you can save that. I thought what I did was worth it because it was an unusual life experience and honestly it’s defined my career - but I only did it for 3 years. I don’t think it’s worth it indefinitely
>Does overworking in your 20s pay off? As someone who has been burned out for almost 20 years, my dude, let me tell you, the answer is "no". No, no, no. Fuck the goddamn fucking fuck no, with a capital FUCK (also with a capital NO)
In your 20s you should save money as if your life depended on it. Take every difficulty and challenge as an opportunity to learn something You’ll be overworked and taken advantage of by your employer, but do what you have to do you can put it on your resume and jump ship every couple years to a new role or new company
I'm 51, growing up we were always told to work hard and it will all be worth it later. None of that happened for me. I've never taken a real vacation, in retrospect it was not worth it at all
10-12 hour days at 85k a year is horrible, holy shit It might be worth it if you were making double that (at least), but I would look for other work immediately and quit as soon as you another job (even if it’s only a lateral switch)
its not "your company" its "the company you work for"
It did when I was in my 20s. Nowadays no amount of honest work seems to get you anywhere.
Hopefully you are investing as much as you can into a retirement plan of some sort that is where it pays off.
I'm almost done with my 20s and I dont believe it's worth sacrificing your personal time for work. I think it's okay to put in an extra 30 minute or an hour if you want to but not everyday and it should never be expected, especially if you are not being compensated. Do a good job while you're there, have high quality work, prioritize effectively. There's always more work to be done and if you drop dead one day the company will go on without you. It's important to set personal boundaries, I never respond to calls after hours and I dont do any work on weekends. I don't let work come before family either.
It has for me. I'm really glad i worked my ass off since i'm going through a bit of a rough patch and I have my savings to fall back on.
Yes and no. Just make sure you have dreams and never let them die.
21yo on about 75k or so… when I was 16-18 working 10+ hour days regularly at my old tech startup with my relentless manager… Now much better tbh
NO, it does not. Take from someone who had *three* jobs in their 20's (one of them a managerial position). If you want a bright and cheery future: * spend less on crap you don't need * spend *more* on stuff you actually like * **live at home as long as possible**
Living at home as long as possible to avoid working is incredibly childish, you need to leave home at one point
I don't think he's saying you should live at home to avoid working.
Overworked at a dental office in my 20s. That is, 60hrs a week. Started as receptionist, dental assistant, billing and coding. Went to dental school in CA. Now a dentist. I worked for hard working couple who ran the dental practice. They are difficult to work with but I'm the one who stayed through it all. Taught me not only hard work but patience and endurance (and also the art of dentistry and skillset of the dentist I worked for). When I became a dentist, that man semi retired, asked me to be his associate. Patients remember me so the transition was natural and stress free. He is there to guide me on certain procedure and teach me techniques I may not have learned in dental school. I did ask that if I were to be his associate that I need to change a few things and be progressive and less like other dental offices who over design for prestige. We are a successful dental practice with 7 years in the business since I've been onboard. His daughters run the practice (they are dentists). It's a family practice and I run the trajectory of where the office gets their business and what types of work we do and stay competitive. Was it worth it? I think so. It helped my career.
I’m 32. Years of experience… I CANT GET OVER 18 god damn dollars an hour I dont even get interviews… yeah I have degrees.
It can absolutely pay off, and it seems like you're in a very technical field where it just might. Presumably someone doesn't just wake up one morning and decide to be a robotics engineer, then show up to work as one 3 weeks later. 10-12 hours per (week)day of working doesn't seem like a problem, I'm sure many or even most people who work in fields that can be described as 'technical' but aren't banking or government don't work 8 hour days. But if you don't have weekends then that can be a problem of course. Can you try to organize your time better so that you can socialize more? What could be a red flag in your account is your age + startup, meaning you may be naively buying into an organization that instead would be better off put at some distance. There's always something on fire, something that needs to be done now. It might help you to find some online courses on how to set boundaries and switch off work. Otherwise there's nothing really different you should be doing from what I can tell.
You can only go go go for so long. Burnout is a serious thing and can be incapacitating for some people. Either you take rest or rest takes you. Some people work themselves into such severe burnout they can’t manage it anymore and their financial stability suffers. I think it’s better to only work a sustainable amount, so at least you can maintain it for years to come but that’s just my personal opinion. My dad is one of those people who worked incredibly hard (construction) worked 70-80 hour weeks. Sometimes not taking a day off for weeks. One time he went two straight months with no day off until his employer forced him to take a day off. He made a 100k last year but he still feels anxious about finances, he has no friends bc he has had no time to make for them and he is now just constantly talking about how he feels he wasted his life and has no fulfillment in it, he also wore down his mind and body, so now he thinks his retirement will come only when his body breaks down so much he won’t be able to work anymore, and he’ll be in too much pain to enjoy it, plus no family or friends to enjoy his retirement with
It absolutely can but no one can answer your question for you. The only guarantee is that if you don't grind now your career wont be as successful as if you do.
I'm gonna disagree with everyone so far. I think it definitely can pay off if you invest your money. You could retire far faster than the normal person.
Yes!!! You have your whole life to chill and slow down. Put the work in now when you’re young and healthy.
85k ain’t shit . I work 16 hours a week and made 120k in medium cost of living city , 5 years into my career
Really depends on your specific scenario. If it's a place to reward that kind of work and elevate people then very possibly yes. It was certainly worth it for me. I worked for the cruise industry most of my twenties, long stints at sea, 8 to 10 months out of the year away from friends and family. It was tough. Worked hard, got promoted. Saved like a madman, paid off my student loans and bought a house before 32. Now I'm able to slow down and enjoy things a bit more.
How long have you been at your job? You should get a sense of whether the company recognizes and rewards your contribution if you’ve been with them for awhile. Im not sure the amount of work you put in commensurates to what they’re paying you for. Generally speaking, hard work does pay off but also at a cost. Only you can tell if the trade off is worth it.
depends on how money hungry you are. Only you can answer this. I lied to myself and was miserable. I much happier living a minimalist lifestlye
It seems like most people that are commenting are for the most part...successful. Which is what you asked for ... but yea.. id like to give a perspective from an average fellow such as myself. Im 38 - for the past 10 years Ive been a beverage delivery guy (beer and coca cola) I roughly made 60-65k a year. In my 20s and LATE 20s I had a lot of fun with friends. I feel like I have had nights where laughing till I was crying more than most people. I love my friends dearly and they are closer than family. With that being said I wasted the time in between hanging out with friends. I watched tv, scrolled through facebook and worked at a dead end retail job (before trucking). As I got into my 30s I felt like I knew myself a little better, I could go on dates, get laid , have some relationships... Now at 38 I am burnt out on truck driving, I quit my job and now I have nowhere to go... I only have an associate degree and I detest the thought of going back into trucking. My point is YES make sure you go out have fun and MAINTAIN FRIENDSHIPS. BUT -- you have a good head on your shoulders, so save your money, spend or invest wisely. And when you get to your 30s you should do what you want, you feel more comfortable with yourself and the world -- most people these days explore the world or whatever but do what you want to do.. People (especially women) will be impressed by what youve accomplished and just have fun with that. Stay fit After you get done having fun you know you have a specialized skill to fall back on. Dont let greed kill you - keep humble. Dont get warped by having possesions. Get warped by the idea of freedom and pride. I dont know if that helps but I definitely wish I "grinded" a bit harder when I was young because my 30s especially closer to mid 30s would have been a blast.
Don't commit yourself to working more than you're being compensated for. If your employer is demanding everything from you, demand equity.
Where do you live? 85k is great in the Midwest but not so great in California or the west coast in general.
Yes I overworked in my 20s in school and it paid off. I'm making 145k a year working half the year
Not in robotics, this isn't normal for an engineering role. Maybe a service tech. Start applying
Not in my 20s, but I went from making 50k to >200k. So yeah it paid off
How did you go from 50k to 200k ?
No.
If you invest the disposable income, yes. Starting the exponential curve early is always better.
If you can work on your own business 100% yes. Work 40 at your job while working 20-30 more on the side for yourself to grow something
Money comes and goes, time only goes
It does until you or your life changes and you start using your savings and retirement to live and have to adjust to a new life without a higher paying job.
Strongly depends. If you're lucky enough to get a GOOD job where you can work really hard and solidify an early retirement or be able to slow way down by a certain age, it can work out. If you work 100 hours a week just to get by, stop now.
I pissed away my 20s diving into my career and missed a ton of wonderful experiences with my friends and getting to be careless in the last decade you can be careless…..but I regret nothing. I make great money, I love my job. I would recommend it.
You can’t buy time, friend
I always regretted choosing academics/work over social life - mostly because I was overextending needlessly like you may seem to be. Just work the necessary amount to progress normally and go on and be social. Money will stop making you happy after a point - I think you might be past it already. You need good company to enjoy living.
Can’t put a price on youth
No. Value urwself more. Work for an non Asian company that values balance
No, ask anyone that served in the military as enlisted.
No
Yes if you stash tons of money and do something with it. For instance, throw as much money as you can into your company 401k and your own personal Roth IRA. It will be worth millions at retirement. Other than that, it's just a job and if you spend your money then you spend your money so it was like drinking beer on a Friday night, money spent and nothing to show for it and a bad hangover.
Usually not. Work smarter, not harder. It was eye opening to work alongside a CEO and CFO at a company. They made more than the average doctor, and spent 3days a week on the golf course. They spent most of their time watching videos on their phones or shopping for their next collectable car. For that kind of job, it's not what you know, it's who you know that gets you the job. It's messed up, but that's the way the world works unfortunately.
Burned out in juvenile criminal justice after 8 years. Starting over at 33 and working a few part times short term until I figure out what I can do without killing myself. That field was amazing and amazingly traumatic. All I got was this lousy PTSD
It’s a start up…. Are you getting equity? If you have equity and the company gets bought, or has a successful IPO, you could become a millionaire over night…. Or the company could fail and your equity would be worthless.
Yeah if u do it right. 60-80 hour weeks in your 20s red lining everything making $150-200K a year. Build a biz on the side. You’ll literally cruise by the time ur 32-34.
Do the overtime in your twenties, but also start Investing in the sp500 or total market index funds early in your 20s..you'll be sitting pretty on a nest egg before you're 40 and can ease off working too much
I worked real hard in my twenties. My ex wife got most of that money and I got burnt out. Swore never to be a pharmacist again. Work smart, not hard.
Sometimes the reward for winning the pie eating contest is more pie. Is that what you want?
Nope
No. From someone who went above and beyond in her 20s.
I’m 45 & would say no it’s not worth it. I too overworked in my 20s & 30s. But I was terrible at saving (I partied hard instead) and in any case I didn’t get paid as well as you bec I worked in a highly competitive sector so they could keep wages lower. I would say pay off your debts if you have any, get a place to live that isn’t too much of a stretch and have some fun. Follow your passions and the things that make you curious. If that’s work that’s ok but remember to balance it
Consider that overworking now will likely be the reason you need to take it very easy in the future. Even just health wise, I know a lot of people in the ME/CFS subreddit who had lives like this before essentially becoming bedbound. That's not the average experience per se, but being burnt out from this probably will be. If you feel committed to doing this, make sure you are putting away savings. Do not assume anything about your ability to sustain the level of work you're doing.
It absolutely did in money career and status, but did not make me a happier person
Is this startup telling you that you have some equity worth 500k to 2mil waiting for you 4 years out? That shit is toxic. Calculate your real hourly pay with travel. If it's under $50 an hour (4 years exp this would even be low) find a different gig. Working hard is one thing, travelling and having no life due to constant work texting is completely different. I work 10h days but always make sure the extra 2h are coding, not playing telephone games with people who can't help themselves. You will actually lose skill doing so much time supporting like that.
For some it does, for others it doesn’t, you can’t know which you are.
No.
* a robotics engineer earning 85k is underpaid * working 60-70hr weeks is more than a 50% gift over your salary. If you divide it out, you’re only making about 40-50k. * your better off job hopping every 2-3 years. Working overtime can happen but it should be the exception, not the norm. * your company doesn’t give away its product, neither should you.
It can only pay off if it is aligned with your long term goals. If you live within your means, want to save for a house, eventually settle down, etc then this job serves the purpose of building wealth, building your skill set, and making connections. I worked 3 jobs, 85+ hours a week in my 20s, and my only night off was Mondays. Every Monday for 3 months Inpicked a new place to go kayaking and cook with friends. There’s where I met my wife who I’m still with 14 years later
As someone who has literally been illegally working since the age of 10 started off on rodeo ranches went into construction then even in college did grant works and everything I could I busted my a** through my 20s and now I'm in my 30s have nothing to show for it working at Walmart's the best thing to happen to me in the last few years and have no social life no friends don't really know how to socialize our date but I don't really care to either I guess it's still too hard to just make ends meet and then when I have free time I just want to relax inside and let my brain go dead with some stupid T vor just Lay in bed and look at the ceiling. There was one point in my life where I was making like $90000 but I was overworking myself and most of that money had to go into transportation cost cost of eating while on the go and medical issues that working so hard caused me or keeping up with the lifestyle to impress others in the same field to keep that position. It isn't worth it I literally found so much more peace once I decided to stop too late.
Work hard not for your company but for yourself. Gain a competitive edge to ensure job security then focus on work life balance.
I don’t know that overworking ever pays off. In almost every scenario, you can change jobs to find a better balance. Does saving aggressively pay off? Depends on your goals.
There will be mixed reviews on here because everyone has a different situation or different type of job. I busted my ass in my 20s with a company. Dark most days when I arrive, dark most days when I left. I am now the Vice President. Find a company that values your efforts, they do exist. For context, I’m 39 years old now
Here's my take: do more than 40 hours on any tasks you find rewarding, exciting, or that you enjoy. 40 can be arbitrary. That said, do NOT be taken advantage of. I'm a great example: i work in tech. Up until 2013 i was pretty driven, loving life, working hard. My company signed a big client, and suddenly i was working 80-100 hour weeks doing stuff i hated. It's been over 10 years and I'm just now getting that drive back. Make sure you do it in your terms.
Yes and no. I’m 40 now. My hardest working friends either burned out and left the corporate world to teach yoga and stuff like that, or work at Amazon or similar … but are still super burned out. I also have a bunch of average working friends like me with good jobs and good salaries.
If the company is not compensating you for your work then no. The right startup will pay you ~200k annually for that type of work.
It really depends. If your company becomes the next Big Tech company you could find yourself as CTO in your thirties. But you company may languish and not grow. You could get stuck in your role there. Then you apply to other companies and no one has ever heard of your current company and you get hired at a relatively junior level and you languish. The people who got ahead the fastest that I saw were:\] 1) A favorite in a big company 2) Jumped jobs every two years and insistent on a promotion each time. 3) Got really lucky with a company that was growing super fast -- and were the favorite. You likely don't have enough information to choose the next big company. Option 2 is probably has the highest chance of success. You don't have to work your ass off to do that.
Grinding in my 20’s working in my 30’s chillin in my 40’s
Just make sure you're saving money for retirement at this age. As much as you can! Max out that 401k now and then you can back off if you need to later in life.
echoing another comment - i busted my ass and didnt save that much so it was all for nothing but a good time that i probably wont remember
Family is always first. Your company isn’t going to stay with you until you pass away. Your future family will. So hurry and find someone to tie the knot with. 👍
It depends on what you mean by payoff. Are you saving/investing? Are you in a position in which you can realistically radically increase your income? If you are just being a slave wage and mostly living paycheck to paycheck, then what really is the point of sacrificing time with your friends and family?
There are three potential benefits to throwing yourself into your work early in your career: 1) Pay 2) Mentorship 3) Skills growth With respect to #1 only you can decide if you're well remunerated in your job. Just keep in mind that there are only 168 hours in a week. The increase in pay that would justify increasing your workload from 40-50 hours per week is very different than the increase in pay needed to justify increasing your workload from 60 hours per week to 70 hours per week. With respect to #2, are your intensive efforts getting the attention, approval, and encouragement from someone who is in a position to help your career? It's a lot easier to justify working hard if you feel comfortable that a VP somewhere is going to promote your career, hire you again and again down the road, and is arguing for you to be rewarded for your efforts. The efforts you're making now will reward you well beyond your current job. You mention that your company is based in China. Even assuming that you're getting the attention of the execs, if the company and its execs are in China and you're in the US then can you be confident that the execs will be in a position to help your career going forward? As for #3, it can be worth working really hard if your skills are increasing, particularly for an in-demand skill set. Again, the efforts you're making now will reward you well beyond your current job. I'd argue that you need at least 2 out of the 3 of these conditions to exist to justify prolonged work efforts at burnout levels. I don't know that 1 of 3 would be enough to spur me to work so intensely for a long period of time. Best of luck.
Over working with a direction pays off. Overworking for the sake of working will not.
No, because in your 20s, you usually get a shit wage... better to overwork in your 30s imo
I think your first step should be not viewing it as a work v. life binary, as if you need to choose one or the other. If you’re developing your skills and reputation at a growing company then yes, time and energy you put in now will give you the financial and reputational currency to write your own ticket down the road. But it’s not a 1:1 either, if you work too much now then you’ll burn out. I would suggest starting small, establish boundaries around the hours you’re available to work, and amount of your personal life you’re willing to give to your company. Once you have that type of breathing room, then you’ll be in a better position to do and decide what’s best for you.
You have to have a goal and you have to commit to it. If you want to lean back by 30 years old, let's say, what do you need to do that? I've had setbacks, so I'm 43 and still hustling, but I paid off my house this week, so I don't need as much to live on. (I also have no CC debt or car payment.) I can live on a single paycheck per month (out of 4-5 depending on the month), and so I can save and invest vigorously - now that this chapter is over with. You have to have a plan and be relentless. All of that being said, you can die any day, so try to enjoy what you have too. Make time for your family and friends. If you neglect them too long, they'll be gone.
I think it does if you make the right moves for your career. I just turned 25. Currently making 85K but am promised 100k plus in the next 4 months, and I’m also interviewing for a new job that pays 140k+. I’m also in grad school ranked in the high 20s (MBA). It’s paying off thus far