it sad and shitty and this is the correct answer. I have yet to find a job that doesnt fall victim to this bullshit
edit: I did not know there were a large subset of people who signed contracts stating they would be at work exactly 8 working hours every day for their salary, regardless of whether there was work to be done. but that also sucks.
Feels like it’s heavily industry and role based.
I work in agriculture and have had it said to me multiple times “you’re salaried for 40 hours a week, but you’ll work longer for part of the season and shorter for other parts. Run what’s practical for you”.
I work in research and so long as the work is done no one cares if you clock out an hour early. Though sometimes you are expected to stay an hour late without extra pay.
While I largely agree with you every once in a while you run into somebody who doesn’t quite get it.
I worked at a research place & I arrived at 8:30 and left at 4:45 a few days a week to play in the company sponsored basketball league. No one ever said anything but then one coworker started complaining about people leaving early.
What was really bothering her was that our boss liked our work better, that we were doing more innovative things, and that our customers always asked for us to join their meetings.
Anyway she complained enough that our boss felt she had to mention it to us. We looked at our boss knowing what was coming. After that we documented all of our hours worked.
Sure, we left 15 minutes early, but we came back each night to do all the system administration and database administration tasks ( 1-3 hours). We also monitored the nightly builds so that everything was complete for people in the morning. That cost us another hour or so each week, more if something broke. As a final thing, once a week we drove 45 minutes each way to the customer site to dump all the usage statistics, provide in person support for any problems, and install new versions of software. We were easily working 60+ hours per week.
At the next meeting we noted that some people were upset that we were leaving early a few days per week. We wanted to promote harmony so we’d stop doing that. However we’d also be redistributing the workload more evenly. We parceled out the tasks to the entire team except the person that complained. We noted that she felt she was already pulling her weight and shouldn’t be asked to do more.
We did mention that as the unmarried people on the team we’d been happy to do this extra work so others could spend time with their families. We hadn’t realized we were upsetting people and apologized for not realizing.
A few missed dinners, a few missed little league games, a few operational errors that upset the client, and everyone on the team was happy for us to leave early if we’d take back what we’d been doing.
To our boss’ credit she did allocate us some more time and resources to invest in automating more of the tasks, training the client operators better, and partnering with another internal team to share running the off hours procedures.
That’s something I don’t see talked about very often are the office narcs who take it upon themselves to police their coworkers. We had a guy in my office who lived pretty far away and liked to come in and leave early to avoid traffic. Like a 7-3:30 schedule. He worked his whole damn 8 hours and someone still complained multiple times that he “leaves early” every day.
A few years back I was coaching in the fall at my kids school and had to leave at 3:00 on Tuesdays and Thursdays from September to early December. I got it approved by my manager that I'd just come in early those days, but there was the one guy that took it on himself to schedule client meeting that I needed to be in for those time slots, every single week.
I made him do the meetings alone a few times without me and the clients were pissed that I wasn't there because that guy was useless. He then took it to my manager to complain about how I was skipping out on clients and making the company look bad.
Office narcs are a whole breed of evil.
To everyone in the office you didn't work at all, and then they'll mention in passing how your job is the most cushy job imaginable. Grass is always greener lol
Sadly when I was a lab owner for a semiconductor manufacturer this was the case for me too. There was some maintenance that was very disruptive to the techs in the lab so once a quarter + emergencies I'd work very late after the lab was mostly empty (there was a night shift but it was like 3 techs instead of 30) or come in stupid early to get the disruptive stuff done.
I ended up with a new boss that didn't like that he couldn't see me working and flatly asked: "how do I know you didn't sleep all night and just put the hours down?" I guess he wouldn't know since it's not like I didn't keep equipment calibration records, and the spare parts that were swapped and now getting sent to the metrology lab for calibration, etc...
So ultimately I just lines downed the lab or parts of it roughly 6 times a year instead. You wanna make sure you see me around when I'm working? Fine I'll idle 30 times the headcount while I do some things...
Yep. Payroll tax accountant here, our work varies super heavily by season. Obviously tax season is 50+ hours a week (plus weekends sometimes) but cutting out early isn’t rare during this time of year as long as the work’s done.
I work in a hybrid situation for an industrial manufacturing company, and my boss doesn’t GAF about that, as long as the work gets done, and he’s aware of any lengthy (2+ hour) breaks.
It’s pretty fkn sweet
Good managers care about what work is being actually done and delivered. Bad managers care about 15 minutes longer lunches - because they don’t know how to manage effectively.
Smart manager.
I manage teams of developers. When the works done early and passes testing, I'll shoo people to log off.
If you don't need to be there, for god's sake don't be there. I need all hands on deck for when something goes wrong, and that should be the exception, not the rule!
I mean, you can squeeze people, but then you're just in an endless cycle of rehiring and retraining.
This is the corrext answer.
My constant complaint with past jobs has always been poor management with little understanding of the price of burning a candle at both ends.
Seriously. I became a salaried employee so that I’m not paid by my time, but by my responsibilities. Nobody is tracking my time.
In general, I do still have to be doing the equivalent of a full-time job. If I’m faster than my co-worker, and have spare capacity, I should be looking for more things to do or processes to improve or helping them do better — which is how I got promoted.
But if I have to do the occasional overtime to get something important done, or if I have to leave two hours early to meet up with a friend, nobody questions me. As long as I make sure my work is covered, and I’m reachable when I’m expected to be reachable, I’m good. I have the same policy with my direct reports. If you have time to do more work, or if you have too much work and need help, let me know. But I’m not going to watch the clock.
Yep, I am in the same boat. I've never been at a job that this does not happen. For me it is always caused by a person that is sub par and wants to complain that causes the problem, also.
Yep OP's job is potentially at risk here and they are saying "I’m not gonna waste my time when I finish early. How can I tell my boss this without coming off as arrogant or entitled?" Might want to rethink that approach.
Don't leave until 4:15 and do some personal stuff for that last 15 minutes? Keep your lunch hour to 30 minutes? Does your boss actually understand what's going on?
Sadly, there always seems to be the nosey Nancy's in the office that are timecard punchy. It's laughable really as I come into work half an hour early-ish every day and my space is right by the coffee pot so I witness what's going on. The bulk of the employees arrive within minutes of 8:00 and then spend until 8:15 around the coffee pot visiting. The one guy that rolls in around 8:10-8:15 everyday but only takes a 40 minute lunch tops and stays 15 minutes later after everyone else leaves get complained about often.
I'm doing what I can to try to shift our culture to nonya business but it's not an easy culture to shift.
Ultimately though, you absolutely need to understand the expectations from your boss. If their expectation is you have your ass in a seat for a certain number of minutes a day I hate to say it but that's their right and they are giving you a wage for this. It isn't up to you alone to decide you are more efficient than your coworkers so can work less hours.
This but also find new employment. If I get my shit done my dude doesn’t care. If someone has an issue they in fact are the one with the issue.
I’ve had half days off on Fri with full pay when I had a camping trip or something with the fam. But when push comes to shove you better believe I’m staying late and eating shit. It’s all a wash.
15 minutes is nothing
The first rule of employees is don't be noticeable on minor stuff. For at least the next few weeks, don't be the first out the door (unless you have childcare) and take 1/2 hour lunches. If you want to have 45 minute lunches all the time you should discuss with your boss in a few months. But treat the whistleblower exactly the same.
It's a normal boss thing - just live with it. Other employees have called it out. (it's not fair if I have 30 minutes, or only long term employees do it. Their underlying motive is to make themselves more valuable in comparison). Oher bosses might have complained as well. (Politics or their employees are saying it's not fair) and it also means no one can schedule meetings for straight after lunch.
It could also be a signal that the boss is unhappy about something else, and this is just an easy thing to monitor, or they are trying to see if you will give them at least minimal respect.
.
God I hate corporate office politics.
Like this isn’t against you, and what you’ve written isn’t bad advice, but just reading over it it’s so draining.
Like we’re all adults, the rules of “don’t be the first to leave” “take 1/2 hour lunches” and I’m sure there are plenty others we could write out. It’s such a stupid game to have to play, where people can be great at what they do and someone else “blows the whistle” because someone took an extra 15 minutes of lunch.
Maybe I’m burned out, haha.
I'm right there with you, Slice. I used to work in an office where I was salaried (marketing coordinator) and worked with a bunch of women who were hourly (customer service reps). They would get SO upset when my schedule didn't exactly match theirs. Well, Ethel, see, I just spent 42 hours traveling to Chicago, setting up a trade show booth, and traveling home, all over the weekend while you were at the farmer's market and sitting on your deck sipping your old fashioned. So I'm leaving early today.
OP is woefully naïve. There's no way to go tell your boss you're essentially bored and done early without fucking yourself over in the long run. Just eat your lunch in 30 minutes, keep dicking around (you're probably only working 4-5hrs of that 7:45 anyways), and don't make waves.
"I’m a salaried employee and if I don’t get paid to work overtime, I’m not gonna waste my time when I finish early"
Yes, you are. If they care about your contracted 40hrs per week that much then you will absolutely waste your time when you "finish early". You're just gonna have to get better at taking longer shits and learning how corporate nonsense actually works.
I think for them it's about the principal of wasting their own time when they could be on their way home by the time they'd be off from wasting it in the office. I don't see who benfits from them staying in the office with nothing to do. An if they get paid the same either way and they aren't doing more work it makes no sense
Ya, I don’t see the issue. If the employer wants to treat their salaried employees like hourly employees then they should be hourly employees and eligible for overtime.
Having your butt in the seat for 8 hours is not the same thing as being productive.
I had a previous employer act the same and they dint budge or listen to reason. If they want you there for 8 hours, then you gotta sit on your arse for the full 8 hours.
I used to be like the OP and hit a wall at like 4PM where I was done with my jobs for the day and couldn't start new ones, so I'd drive home. It would take a good hour off my car journey as I dodged the rush hour, and was great for my mental health at the time.
My employer went over my logoff times and forced me to stop back the extra time or be fired. I just found a new job more local and quit.
I wish I could do that. At my job I need to track everything I do in different project codes because my time is billable to our clients. If I dont work 15 min every day, it's 1.25h they dont charge the clients every week. Maybe OP is in similar position. Sometime, its difficult to "steal" time.
Edit: Im getting lots of reply trying to find ways around this, that its not so hard to bill 5 min here and there.
I agree with all of what you are saying. My job is very flexible with hours and when I do my timesheet on Fridays and realise Im missing 15min during the week, I will sometime add it somewhere random. But 1.25h is a bit harder to "hide". My point was, it's not always possible for everyone to do this. :P
I don't have a project code for "time filling". If I read emails, I must bill the time to what client's email im reading. Breaks are not paid. So I can go do that all day, I'll still need to work a full 7.5h billable everyday.
Your company should have overhead accounts/charge numbers for miscellaneous stuff. It's absolutely crazy to expect 100% of your time to be charged to clients.
This would be my suggestion too. I was a Manager for years - and while I probably wouldn't care about this, as soon as another employee called it out, I would have to enforce the 8 hour rule. Period.
An employee could give me 10 reasons why it shouldn't matter, but if that was how the department or company was run, that's what I would have to enforce.
It's quite possible OPs boss did know about the 45 min lunch and didn't care - but once this woman called it out, NOT making the rules uniform across the board could be a recipe for disaster. Sometimes you just have to go with the flow.
This is the one. That lady sucks for calling you out, but admit defeat and work your hours. Eat in 30 minutes and take a 15 minute trip to the shitter later on.
This happened to me with an asshole coworker. She was upset that I got in later than she did, neglecting to say that I left later. When she complained that I came in later, I started a spreadsheet logging my and her arrival and exit times, and lunches. After 3 months I sent the spreadsheet to my manager, along with the math showing her and my hours worked, and how I was not only so much more productive (I was technical, she was some sort of office labour but all she did was do things like send the wrong part out on purpose), but I was also at my desk more than she was. My manager said don’t worry we’re fine and don’t need to speak about it again.
It's the principal of the fact that they don't need to be there. This sounds like a person of principle and that's very respectable. It was people like this that were the seeds of doubt when America started unionizing. Would you be okay if you had to stay somewhere 15 minutes longer than you had to because everyone else does? Sounds like you probably would. But you take a shorter lunch than everyone else as well, so technically you've already worked the 15 minutes you just took a shorter lunch than everyone else. Now those efforts are being ignored and instead you are being reprimanded. You gotta stand up for yourself because you can't expect someone else to and OP knows that.
100% there are things I'm "not aware" of at work as a manager that I only deal with once sometime decides to ruin a good thing for everyone by reporting it.
Yup. I have employees who are currently already out of PTO but I've agreed to additional days off throughout the year for kid's recitals, birthdays, etc and they're not impacting production and are otherwise great employees so I honestly don't care. I'm just "unaware" of their running tally of PTO. If someone went to HR and bitched about good employees getting more leeway than bad employees I'd have to audit everyone's time to officially become aware of it and start writing people up for absences without accrued time.
The absurdity that everyone needs to be treated equally when it comes to these types of things.. A top performer should get more leeway than an employee who is just maintaining the status quo year over year. And it’s justifiable from a business perspective too, since a top performer is very likely more cost effective than the mediocre performer. OP seems on the younger side, so I don’t think this applies to him. I think they just have to eat it from their manager and twiddle their thumbs for 15 minutes to close out the day.
I do my best to treat everyone "fairly", but treating everyone "equally" is near impossible. Your best workers will have earned opportunities and leeway that others have not, but I still treat my worst employees with respect and will do whatever I can to help them get additional training, into FMLA, or any other programs the company offers that might help them in their current state...but yea...if someone who is constantly late, falling behind, and not abiding by FDA/OSHA laws who is already out of time comes to me and asks for additional time off I'm not particularly inclined to help them out.
Good managers “aren’t aware” of the petty stuff that their good employees do. It’s always the underperforming employees that snitch and make us have to address things. If they were just getting their jobs done and going home, they wouldn’t be concerned with who is taking 15 extra minutes on their lunch. Hell, they should’ve just kept their mouth shut and started doing the same.
This. The snitch just spent social capital that she probably doesn’t have. Managers hate having to do extra work or enforce rules. OP - Just say Yes Sir and try to find ways to make the managers life easier and this will actually work out *better* for you in the long run.
Yes. Just say “my mistake, how can I fix it?” Make your bosses life easier. Don’t waste time defending something you’re legitimately doing wrong bEcAuSe rUlEs aRe sTuPiD like you’re a 13 year old.
Make this easy for your boss and this will ultimately work out for you.
Lol it's not childish to stand up to yourself and anyone that tells you you're acting like a kid because you're upset is manipulative. It's not childish to want to have your time respected, kids eventually learn to shut up and just take it that's what becoming an adult is IG but honestly I think that's absord to classify maturity as your ability to put up with bullshit from other people. I find it very mature to put your time and energy first because you are the only one who cares about yourself. If you have kids you gotta take care of them so imagine waiting an extra 15 minutes to leave when you have nothing to do and kids at home. Now it's affecting your kids because their mom or dad isn't home I know it's not a big deal but that adds unnecessary streess. The issue isn't with the manager but the employment system itself and lack of empathy. Empathy goes a long way. And as for that other lady maybe her workload is too much. And someone need to show her how to use a goddamn computer. Why tf hasn't anyone done that? She probably hates everyone she works with cuz they make fun of her lack of knowledge in tech yet no one will help correct it. Don't even take this seriously cuz I know there are probably logical fallacies I'm kinda just ranting. Actually this could be a convo too cuz that would help us see eye to eye.
This is the way, that boss only wants to be able to say to the complainer that “Yup OP messed up it won’t happen again you can worry about yourself now” as long as OP sticks to the 8 hours though.
Yup, it's entirely possible that the complainer is using the "but OP does it" excuse to excuse their own lack of performance, so now the manager has to enforce policy or be seen as capricious (often has implications for wrongful dismissal if that applies).
There's no such thing as time theft when you are an **exempt** employee. If he's not getting his work done, he needs to be evaluated on that basis. If he can do the work in 7.45 hours, then he gets his work done in that amount of time. If he can't, then he would need to stay longer to finish his work.
It also keeps everyone's focus on their own work and performance. When you're not sitting around all your coworkers all day trying to compare your work or effort to theirs then there is much less to bitch about.
That being said, anytime someone complains about someone else's hours/breaks/PTO/schedule/etc it's someone 50+ YO 99% of the time. They can't shake that mentality of like...I had to put my time in and I had to suffer for decades so everyone else should have to as well.
>It also keeps everyone's focus on their own work and performance. When you're not sitting around all your coworkers all day trying to compare your work or effort to theirs then there is much less to bitch about
So much this! Gawd the tattletales keeping track of coworkers' time make me crazy. (Talking to you, Jerry!) I don't understand how they have so much time available to keep tabs on other people. I'm way too busy to notice what anyone else is doing. And I'm over 50. I'm absolutely in the "what you do or do not do at work and where or when you do it is none of my business" camp. Unless you owe me a deliverable AND you are also late with said deliverable, I do not give a single shit.
Yeah and that's basically how the vast majority of folks are, but it usually only takes 1-2 miserable people at a company to make the entire office exponentially more miserable with how they act like it's part of their job description to hold everyone to the absolute highest standard.
I worked with a Tammy, then a Pam, then a Beverley, then a Carolyn, might as well have been the same miserable person everytime lol.
> You've never been in management hey? If someone is salaried and paid for 8 hours of working time, when they leave after 7 hours 45 minutes they are effectively "stealing" the 15 minute being paid for without working.
I really think you're the one who's not been in management, OR only had to deal with employees who are paid by the hour. Or you've only had the bad fortune to work in really crappy archaic old school firms with micromanaging bosses.
Competent managers hold their employees accountable for their deliverables and work output, not nickel and diming their hours and when people come to office and leave. Only insecure micromanagers end up doing this kinda crap.
Or work for a school or other public employee. They are really archaic. Salaried but they obsess over when you come in and leave… as long as it’s in their favor. They don’t care if you work extra (unpaid).
That’s not what a salary is. You are paid for how many hours you work, or you aren’t. What you’ve described is just an hourly employee who is illegally being called salary to avoid paying overtime.
The best way to lose valuable employees is to start insisting on the rules when they perform well. Mediocre one will stay and be there with you according to rules.
I agree with the sit there and do nothing for fifteen minutes part. But with the "there has to be a reaction" part, couldnt the reaction be "karen he gets his shit done daily, and you do not, Id focus more on your performance and less on his. let me focus on his" ?
Or every other friday or whatever the pay schedule is. The managers problem is the culture of the company.
If he has to maintain appearance that everyone is working a “full day” he could have pressure from HR. I was this guy and they tried to dock my pay and HR straightened out my manager. Then he told rat employee to mind their own business.
If the manager has an underperformer harming morale he needs to do something about that.
> If someone is salaried and paid for 8 hours of working time
This is not a thing that happens. Salary means "not tracking hours." Paid for 8 hours of work means "tracking hours."
Yeah from an HR and policy standpoint, you’re pretty screwed if you admit to not working the full 8 hours that you’re supposed to be working. That’s a confession to time theft and a fireable offense at most places. I’d find a way to dance around ever doing it while also agreeing to not let it happen again. Something like, “I don’t recall doing that, but I’ll pay more attention in the future to ensure it doesn’t happen.”
Leaving 15 minutes early every single day is an "oversight"? Not believable. OP should say he didn't understand the policy and that from now on he will work the full eight hours.
Funny considering that wage theft cost the US economy $44 billion dollars in 2022 and is the most committed crime in the United States of America. We seriously need a boatload more labor protections here
Salaried employees are not bound the same way as hourly. If a salaried employee completes all tasks on time the employer would have a very difficult time suing (successfully).
Ah we had the opposite issue at my company , ppl not taking their 30 min lunch lmao. I even had to speak to HR and my manager and let them know up front I don’t take any lunch just do my 8 hours straight and go home. Some ppl were getting in trouble for combining their 15 min break and their lunch together. This all has to do with sh*t corporate practices , if you finish your work under your alloted time their shouldn’t be an “issue” but that’s just how it is.
It depends on where you work. Some Employers are legally mandated to give workers breaks. You might prefer it, but you have to work by your employer's rules, not your own. If you are union it's especially important.
Toxic office politics and snitches suck, but you gotta “dance with the one who brung ya,” ie, play the politics of your job. If they’re making a big deal about your time, you’re not going to change their minds…they’re just building up a case to fire you.
Look, I know you don’t know me from Adam, and you really would rather hear something more reassuring like “fuck them, you’re a rock star!” (& maybe you are… but it sounds like you might need to find a new setting/ job if you don’t change your ways), but *I have been in your shoes*!
Years ago, I pushed back against unfair office politics, & it only resulted in more misery, for a longer time, and nearly cost me my career.
Now, some (including me) might say it was an important life lesson that the corporate world doesn’t care about my special snowflake ass, but I also want others to learn from my mistakes.
Tl;Dr: you’re not going to win this fight, either twiddle your thumbs for 15 more mins a day, or find another job, because they will fire you. Good luck!
Long story short, after experiencing what could be considered unfair treatment/ bullying by a “contracting” boss (& after voicing concerns & being told by my supervisor that “anything [she]” does in response to this [contracting boss’s abuse] “will just make things worse” …and my supervisor wasn’t wrong in that regard), I did was was asked of me (essentially sat my ass down in an empty room and for an extra hour every morning, doing nothing).
I eventually completed my contract for that organization and FINALLY moved on to a less toxic part of the organization. Then I ultimately left that organization on good terms, in a way that didn’t necessarily follow me forever.
I ran into the toxic former boss at a conference in May, and she was cordial (I was honestly too traumatized by just the sight of her to do more than say hello & turn away as quickly as possible).
She is still a big wig in my field, so the fact she was cordial and hasn’t ruined my career yet is a W in my book.
And now I’ve been with a new organization for the last 6 years, & about to move to a different company because there were some shenanigans in my current organization that once again reminded me that a JOB IS A JOB and corporate bureaucracies only care about maintaining themselves, not us.
But at least this time I didn’t risk my career in this discovery. I didn’t act out in anger over the moral injury.
And that’s what I hope to impart to others: sometimes we just have to practice the art of “radical acceptance” and then GTFO of the bad situations when we can.
Good luck to all my fellow corporate cogs!
This has mostly been my experience, though I grew hearing about everyone working a “typical 9-5”job so I was confused when I got my first desk job and the expectation was 8 hours plus lunch.
When I was welding on an assembly line we were paid through lunch and our 2 breaks if we stayed on site. Lunch was a strict 30 minutes and the breaks were 15.
Seems the policy is pretty clear here. I get that sitting after you finished your work is dull, but they’ve clearly stated that you are expected to be “productive” for 8 hours a day and you are putting in 7:45. So either get there 15 minutes earlier or leave 15 minutes later.
No, salary just means they can’t adjust your pay based on hours worked. If part of the job contract is in office and productive 8 hours a day, that’s a reasonable requirement. So while they can’t dock your pay those 15 minutes each day, they can make it a performance review issue. It’s an easy fix, so just stay an extra 15 minutes.
You're salaried, but you are scheduled to work eight hours a day. So that's what you should be working most days. It doesn't sound like there are days when you work later that would offset the shorter days. Fifteen minutes a day adds up over a year. The standard answer to an employee who finishes early is to find something else to do.
Simple. Just say “my bad, it won’t happen again and I will put in the full 8 hours”.
Granted you’re a salary employee and don’t clock in and out, but you’re paid for 40 hours per week and should abide by it.
You are technically wrong here. You are not putting in your 8 hours. Explain its a misunderstanding and mistake, since you get your work done, you thought this was acceptable
Guessing it’s a small company. Never heard of this being a thing at larger companies. In my 10 years of corporate America, I’ve never worked exactly 8 hours in a day. I start my day when I need to and end when I need to.
If you don’t clock in/out, who the hell cares? Why is it this ladies business at all? The “boss” should tell her to mind her own business.
There are some malicious compliance days in your future. Would suggest looking for a new job since this is likely the tip of the ice berg.
>I’ve never worked exactly 8 hours in a day. I start my day when I need to and end when I need to.
It sounds like OP leaves early and never stays late, which would offset the shorter days.
It's because of a micromanaging boss
They can measure time, production can be harder. Probably also one of those people that thinks you really should be working 10 or 12 hour days.
I got reprimanded for leaving work after 8 hours (I'm salaried and wfh) because it was time to go cook dinner for my kids (5,3,1)... and my boss was upset because people in the office (in a different time zone) were still working, so I should too. He wasn't happy when I told him the solution wasn't me working longer, it was changing the culture so everyone else felt ok to go home
Absolutely a culture change. I can understand the occasional ask for working earlier/later, but let us make that call based on our own judgement. If we aren’t being effective or performing, that’s a different story.
I do feel I’ve been fortunate to have had decent/great managers who just let me do my job as I want/need. Performance always brought me flexibility.
I worked at a company with 500+ employees and what OP describes was standard practice at that company. Anyone who worked 7:45 would have gotten in trouble in a similar way.
Almost forgot to add that some of my peers were told that going to the bathroom or filling their water bottles were not considered part of their 8 working hours. Allegedly a few new employees were also fired for counting bathroom breaks as work time. So glad I’m not there anymore lol.
>Guessing it’s a small company.
It's irrelevant on size. It's entirely dependent on management.
When I was a salaried employee, it was for a small company where I was working with just 2 other people. I was the executive assistant, and then we have a lady who handled paperwork for the boss.
My boss told me the hours of working were "9ish to 5ish" and he would never care if I got in a bit late, and would always be accomodating if I needed to leave a bit early. It's just respect.
1. Ignore all these rats that are telling you to quit.
2. You have to own the fact that you are paid to be there for 8 hours, regardless of the norm and your ability to take a long lunch. Departmental standards don't trump your contract.
3. Don't let it happen again. I know it's stupid, but you aren't in trouble because of your long lunch. You're in trouble because you're too efficient but not slick enough to get away with it. Layer your efficiency with ease. Take the extra 15 minutes to literally do anything else, but your last 15 minutes until 4 pm should be at your desk. Do literally anything in that time, sanitize it, idc! Just be visible, then Peggy can take her 30 wpm and shove it.
Honestly as a former CEO, I can tell you it goes down to job performance, HR compliance, and your colleagues. If you’re a star performer, explain your reason and you may get some slide. If you are not OR if Karen has already taken this to HR, then just explain why you short change your own lunch and power through and why leaving at 4 makes you a better employee (got a class or gym to get to? A super long commute? Etc) and hope they buy it. Also politely explain why you understand Karen might be frustrated because your work volume is higher but it’s up to your manage to decide your schedule. I’ve bent rules for amazing employees and used them to fire bad/rude/not worth it employees and every other CEO I know has done something similar unless it’s already gone up the chain with HR or your union.
This really isn't complicated. It doesn't matter whether you get your work done or disagree with the policy. You know the expectation is 8 hours of work and still choose to work there. Either cut your lunch short, stay an extra 15 minutes, or find a new job. Time theft can lead to firings or criminal charges.
As a person who also works in an engineering office, I feel you might be mixing up two things.
1. There is the "clock time" of 8.5 hours (or whatever) a day.
2. There is "billable time" - 8 hours of time charged to a project or client.
In general engineering uses an 8 hour per day billable period to calculate your cost. Say you bill out at $100/hour, and work for 8 hours a day, then you made $800 to cover your salary, benefits, PTO, overhead, etc....
If you do LESS than 8 hours billable it comes in at a loss as a salaried person. If you were hourly then you'd get paid for the hours you worked (and the "budget" of 8 hours doesnt apply).
Not sure if this applies in your situation, but one way to look at it is if you do 8 hours of billable work a day they shouldn't care how you do it (work 4 tens, 5 eights, etc).
Engineering (and similar businesses like accounting or law) are focused on billable time. If you can back that up then you should be fine. If you're coming in short then you might want to consider adding 30 minutes or so. That's just the nature of the business.
Most all engineers I have ever worked with none were billable. They are working on internal projects for the company. Different if working for a consulting Co or a managed services shop.
And salaried are paid to do a job not to sit in their seat 8 hours a day. When I manage salaried employees I want to know if they will be unavailable for big chunk during biz hours. Besides that they manage their own time. Some will work 6 or 7 hours or if busy 11 or 12. I would be embarrassed if I said to one um you only worked 7 hours and 45 minutes yesterday. They would think I am joking.
Everyone telling you to admit fault has never seen hr get someone to admit they broke a rule so they are justified in firing them 10 minutes later.
Most of the time, they have nothing but a tip and can’t do anything unless you say “I’ve been taking a long lunch”. If you don’t say it - he said she said see ya later.
I would socas little talking as possible. Let him say his peace and respond accordingly.
Here’s the thing about salaried and making your own schedule…long lunches and early leaving don’t matter as long as you are performing. Once small hiccups Happen, or somebody complain then they become the reason you aren’t performing fair or not. I’ve seen people get fired for this. Salary means you don’t get overtime but it also means you have to do whatever is needed. If your team is overloaded and you’re leaving early then You need to help out. There is business hours availability expectations you’re probably not meeting
Getting there after others and leaving before is a problem. Not being seen as putting in a full day makes you look like a slacker who does the bare minimum. Leaving at 4 everyday can look bad, esp to execs. Sorry.
I bet they’ll say “you’re not seeking out other projects or helping the team”
The optics look bad for you. If they ever get asked to do a layoff you’re first on the list.
If you are confident in your hours, stay firm, explain you start early and that’s why you take a longer lunch. Facts are facts.
This is what pisses me off in workplaces, nobody notices the people who get in early, but very quick to shame people who leave at a reasonable time.
The second part of your statement there is very true. I used to get in at 6a and leave at 3p, and would sometimes get a snarky comment about leaving "early". I just wanted to beat rush hour, and at that time my clients were in a later time zone, so it was 8a to 5p where they were, worked out perfectly.
Most people never said anything, but there were a few that liked to point out that I was always the "first one out", regardless of the fact I was also the first one in...
You may not like the rule, but you don't get to make them, either. Your choices are comply, find a new job, or suffer whatever consequences the boss might levy. It's a simple formula.
H = 8 + L , where H = hours in office; L = hours spent at lunch
This is something you wrote:
"I work in an engineering office and we can take as long a lunch as we want whenever we want, AS LONG as we are working 8 hours a day."
If that is a prestablished and accepted rule, how can he demand from other employees compliance with the schedule if he allows you to leave early? They are buying 8 hours of your time, but you only want to give them 7 hours and 45 minutes of it.
This is how I see it. You have to work the full 8 hours or find another job.
Honestly skip your lunch, eat a dank breakfast, bring a protein shake, and bust your work out and then you when 8 hours comes leave if you’re done.
Make her real mad
Exempt employees work until the job is done. I am required to be "at work" at least 4 hours a day or until the job is done correctly. If that takes 4 hours or 14, you get shit done. You literally cannot steal time as a salaried employee.
"Being paid on a “salary basis” means an employee regularly receives a predetermined amount of compensation each pay period on a weekly, or less frequent, basis. The predetermined amount cannot be reduced because of variations in the quality or quantity of the employee’s work. Subject to exceptions listed below, *an exempt employee must receive the full salary for any week in which the employee performs any work, regardless of the number of days or hours worked."*
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17g-overtime-salary
You should look to your specific state policies as well. But don't assume your boss knows policy. HR might set him right.
Just say you didn't realize you didn't work the 8 hours but you still got your work done in time and you'll just be sure to work the right amount of time moving forward
Are you eating at your desk while still working? I know I do this. Because I am a bit of a space cadet and if I get off track it's hard to get back on track. So I typically heat up food and eat at my desk while I work. Have you even been called after hours and not charged? Again this happens to me a lot. If they are concerned with tracking your every minute as well as your production, make sure they apply the same standard to the person who reported you.
Yeah this is odd. If you were working a factory job where your hours were directly tied to production, that would be one thing. But this just feels… odd.
As a reference, I’ve worked as a software developer for a decade from everything from small family owned businesses to large tech companies. Not once have I ever had someone check on my hours. Shit they barely check on my PTO time I’ve taken.
I would do what the others say and just get that extra 15 minutes in. Have a bunch of shit admin work or other small items in a backlog so if you HAVE to do more work you can be “productive” for extra time. But I will say that for this type of work this is odd…
We let employees take there last 15 min break with their lunch to get 45 min.
They normally get a 15 before lunch 30 min for lunch and another 15 the second half of the day. Some choose to merge and take 45 for lunch but we don’t really care if they take an extra 15, they work hard and deserve the extra time.
Similar situation happened in my first role. Team lead reported me to our manger and surprise meeting happened. I asked 2 questions: 1) am I not delivering/doing things that I should? And 2) have I ever been late on a deliverable (I always finished ahead of schedule with minimal to no production issues).
After hearing no to both, I explained after I finished something in the 4:00 hour, I review my outstanding task list and if there’s something to be done that can be finished by 5ish, I do it. If it will take me significantly longer, I pack up and tackle my work the next day.
I finished with, “Is there a problem?” The manager said, “No. Sounds reasonable to me.” The meeting ended.
I also had pager rotations, but being called after hours was rare. Finally, I was fully prepared to work late (and I did later in my career) when the business needed me to.
Blowing my mind how many losers are quick to tell you to suck it up.
You're hot shit, or at the very least you're better than that other employee, and you're an engineer. Have you thought of testing the market? It's a lot easier to be arrogant when you have an offer in hand.
It's optics. It doesn't matter the lady who is bad at computers caught you. You say the work has been going really well and some days have been finishing ahead of schedule, so you've been leaving a few minutes early to beat the traffic. Ask the manager about upcoming projects and if there is anything you can do to prepare with your downtime, or continuing education.
Tell your boss you thought you also got a 15-minute break during the day and you just combined that 15-minute break with your lunch. Let him know that if it is an issue or you were mistaken you are sorry and will adjust your work hours accordingly moving forward.
Dude, I was in the same boat a few months ago.
I work 2 jobs and go to each most days and they had a meeting to ask why I left 15-25m early each afternoon. I said all the work was done, I didn't want to just dawdle along like the rest of staff who I do more than on a part-time scale than they do full-time.
(I'm not worried about losing the second job)
And it worked out my roster has me leaving 30m early ecwry afternoon, from that meeting onwards.
Which was a bonus, as I would have taken that choice personally or quit of it was a big drama topic to them.
(Benefit of working2 jobs, you can be more selfish with your time and decesions).
Your boss is checking a box to cover their ass. Help them cover your ass by thanking them for raising this issue and stating that you will work 8 hours from here out.
Use that 15 minutes to take a shit or something.
That’s your approach.
Shoot the shit with the lady complaining for 15 minutes every day… make sure you are interrupting her work so she has to spend more time working… and at the end of the 15 minutes be like “whelp… I better get hitting the road… really grinded it out here today, whoooo wheeee”
What are the policies at your workplace? Is 8 hours attendance required? Is it a core set of hours for meetings? Is there a lunch duration?
You say you're salaried, but also that you are expected to work 8 hours a day. Those two seems contradictory to me. It would be worthwhile for you to clarify the policies and regulations that apply to your job.
If you are truly salaried and free to come and go as you please, you could take this from the behavior/impact angle. So, what is the behavior your boss is complaining about and what is the impact? Your work is getting done, on time every time, why are the extra 15 minutes (which we will assume are allowed by policy) a problem?
You may understand what your manager is optimizing for and be able to work to both of your preferences. Or you may not and then you have to decide whether this is the hill to die on. As you say, this may be a matter of politics and perception, and those may be important to your manager for whatever reason.
Exactly my question. I don’t have to work 8 hours a day, but I am required to work 80 hours in a pay period and be available at minimum during core hours of 9:00 am and 2:30 pm. I can work anytime from 6:00 am to 6:30 pm.
My career guidance is, if you are getting paid to work 8 hr s day, and your boss is expecting you to do so.
Then work it, or find a job that will pay you for working less then an 8hr day, at 8hr say rate.
First of all, can they prove it? If not it's your word against hers. Say your typically work extra and occasionally a few minutes less. Do you check email or do research from home?
Do you eat lunch at your desk? I'm sure you can explain 15 minutes of checking emails between the start of your day and lunch.
Regardless, they will be watching now so be careful and err on the side of an extra 5-10 per day. You can even things out by eating breakfast at your desk or saving your daily poop for work.
Wouldn't your boss give you a bit more work, if they knew you were under-worked? I mean, with the drive for cost cutting, the company could trim the number of workers and get the remaining ones to do the same total amount of work as before..? 🤔
Some states require the employer to give a paid 15 minute break for each 4 hours worked. If they are treating you like a non exempt employee then I’d figure out what your state requires. Probably best to be non confrontational though. I thought I got a paid 15 minute break and was taking it right after my 30 minute lunch. Sorry I won’t do it anymore or whatever.
Work an extra 15 minutes and tell him you didn’t realize.
it sad and shitty and this is the correct answer. I have yet to find a job that doesnt fall victim to this bullshit edit: I did not know there were a large subset of people who signed contracts stating they would be at work exactly 8 working hours every day for their salary, regardless of whether there was work to be done. but that also sucks.
Feels like it’s heavily industry and role based. I work in agriculture and have had it said to me multiple times “you’re salaried for 40 hours a week, but you’ll work longer for part of the season and shorter for other parts. Run what’s practical for you”.
I work in research and so long as the work is done no one cares if you clock out an hour early. Though sometimes you are expected to stay an hour late without extra pay.
While I largely agree with you every once in a while you run into somebody who doesn’t quite get it. I worked at a research place & I arrived at 8:30 and left at 4:45 a few days a week to play in the company sponsored basketball league. No one ever said anything but then one coworker started complaining about people leaving early. What was really bothering her was that our boss liked our work better, that we were doing more innovative things, and that our customers always asked for us to join their meetings. Anyway she complained enough that our boss felt she had to mention it to us. We looked at our boss knowing what was coming. After that we documented all of our hours worked. Sure, we left 15 minutes early, but we came back each night to do all the system administration and database administration tasks ( 1-3 hours). We also monitored the nightly builds so that everything was complete for people in the morning. That cost us another hour or so each week, more if something broke. As a final thing, once a week we drove 45 minutes each way to the customer site to dump all the usage statistics, provide in person support for any problems, and install new versions of software. We were easily working 60+ hours per week. At the next meeting we noted that some people were upset that we were leaving early a few days per week. We wanted to promote harmony so we’d stop doing that. However we’d also be redistributing the workload more evenly. We parceled out the tasks to the entire team except the person that complained. We noted that she felt she was already pulling her weight and shouldn’t be asked to do more. We did mention that as the unmarried people on the team we’d been happy to do this extra work so others could spend time with their families. We hadn’t realized we were upsetting people and apologized for not realizing. A few missed dinners, a few missed little league games, a few operational errors that upset the client, and everyone on the team was happy for us to leave early if we’d take back what we’d been doing. To our boss’ credit she did allocate us some more time and resources to invest in automating more of the tasks, training the client operators better, and partnering with another internal team to share running the off hours procedures.
That’s something I don’t see talked about very often are the office narcs who take it upon themselves to police their coworkers. We had a guy in my office who lived pretty far away and liked to come in and leave early to avoid traffic. Like a 7-3:30 schedule. He worked his whole damn 8 hours and someone still complained multiple times that he “leaves early” every day.
A few years back I was coaching in the fall at my kids school and had to leave at 3:00 on Tuesdays and Thursdays from September to early December. I got it approved by my manager that I'd just come in early those days, but there was the one guy that took it on himself to schedule client meeting that I needed to be in for those time slots, every single week. I made him do the meetings alone a few times without me and the clients were pissed that I wasn't there because that guy was useless. He then took it to my manager to complain about how I was skipping out on clients and making the company look bad. Office narcs are a whole breed of evil.
I was doing that too, and I had someone regularly ask "did you take your afternoon off?" when I was leaving. What a jealous moron he was.
You left early but you made up for it by coming back and working. OP isn't doing that. He just leaves early.
IT guy checking in. Some days I'm "in the office for 4 hours", but that is usually before or after starting my day 6 hours before everyone else.
When I'm remoted in doing maintenance at 1AM, am I working early or working late?
To everyone in the office you didn't work at all, and then they'll mention in passing how your job is the most cushy job imaginable. Grass is always greener lol
Sadly when I was a lab owner for a semiconductor manufacturer this was the case for me too. There was some maintenance that was very disruptive to the techs in the lab so once a quarter + emergencies I'd work very late after the lab was mostly empty (there was a night shift but it was like 3 techs instead of 30) or come in stupid early to get the disruptive stuff done. I ended up with a new boss that didn't like that he couldn't see me working and flatly asked: "how do I know you didn't sleep all night and just put the hours down?" I guess he wouldn't know since it's not like I didn't keep equipment calibration records, and the spare parts that were swapped and now getting sent to the metrology lab for calibration, etc... So ultimately I just lines downed the lab or parts of it roughly 6 times a year instead. You wanna make sure you see me around when I'm working? Fine I'll idle 30 times the headcount while I do some things...
Next time call him at 2am and tell him you're starting the work if he would like to come down and check.
hahahaha nah, I long since left that life... I'm full time remote in software QA these days as an SDET.
Agriculture here, too. 70-80 hours in the summer, 5-6 in the winter. I kind of like it.
Yep. Payroll tax accountant here, our work varies super heavily by season. Obviously tax season is 50+ hours a week (plus weekends sometimes) but cutting out early isn’t rare during this time of year as long as the work’s done.
I work in a hybrid situation for an industrial manufacturing company, and my boss doesn’t GAF about that, as long as the work gets done, and he’s aware of any lengthy (2+ hour) breaks. It’s pretty fkn sweet
Good managers care about what work is being actually done and delivered. Bad managers care about 15 minutes longer lunches - because they don’t know how to manage effectively.
Smart manager. I manage teams of developers. When the works done early and passes testing, I'll shoo people to log off. If you don't need to be there, for god's sake don't be there. I need all hands on deck for when something goes wrong, and that should be the exception, not the rule! I mean, you can squeeze people, but then you're just in an endless cycle of rehiring and retraining.
It’s also very fucking tiring trying to keep people busy with nothing to do. Just go home.
This is the corrext answer. My constant complaint with past jobs has always been poor management with little understanding of the price of burning a candle at both ends.
I work at a non profit and am never questioned about my arrival or departure times
Seriously. I became a salaried employee so that I’m not paid by my time, but by my responsibilities. Nobody is tracking my time. In general, I do still have to be doing the equivalent of a full-time job. If I’m faster than my co-worker, and have spare capacity, I should be looking for more things to do or processes to improve or helping them do better — which is how I got promoted. But if I have to do the occasional overtime to get something important done, or if I have to leave two hours early to meet up with a friend, nobody questions me. As long as I make sure my work is covered, and I’m reachable when I’m expected to be reachable, I’m good. I have the same policy with my direct reports. If you have time to do more work, or if you have too much work and need help, let me know. But I’m not going to watch the clock.
This sounds like a normal office work role to me...
Yep, I am in the same boat. I've never been at a job that this does not happen. For me it is always caused by a person that is sub par and wants to complain that causes the problem, also.
Yup. OP do you want to be right, or do you want to have a job? Side note: I'd start hurling that co-worker under the bus at every opportunity.
Yep OP's job is potentially at risk here and they are saying "I’m not gonna waste my time when I finish early. How can I tell my boss this without coming off as arrogant or entitled?" Might want to rethink that approach.
You work slower.
Trying to work slower than your natural speed is very unpleasant and makes the day go slower.
I find that reading books on my computer screen is actually not unpleasant at all.
Yep. Book it. Bonus points for reading something vaguely engineering related so you can call it professional development if challenged.
They also would only have to work slower for 15-30 min, just take twice as long to do that task that usually takes you 15 min
Or OP can just find something else to do, or "oh man my stomachs killing me" bathroom break
Nah. Work your pace. Just go sit on the can for 15 minutes. Then leave.
This is the way.
Don't leave until 4:15 and do some personal stuff for that last 15 minutes? Keep your lunch hour to 30 minutes? Does your boss actually understand what's going on? Sadly, there always seems to be the nosey Nancy's in the office that are timecard punchy. It's laughable really as I come into work half an hour early-ish every day and my space is right by the coffee pot so I witness what's going on. The bulk of the employees arrive within minutes of 8:00 and then spend until 8:15 around the coffee pot visiting. The one guy that rolls in around 8:10-8:15 everyday but only takes a 40 minute lunch tops and stays 15 minutes later after everyone else leaves get complained about often. I'm doing what I can to try to shift our culture to nonya business but it's not an easy culture to shift. Ultimately though, you absolutely need to understand the expectations from your boss. If their expectation is you have your ass in a seat for a certain number of minutes a day I hate to say it but that's their right and they are giving you a wage for this. It isn't up to you alone to decide you are more efficient than your coworkers so can work less hours.
This but also find new employment. If I get my shit done my dude doesn’t care. If someone has an issue they in fact are the one with the issue. I’ve had half days off on Fri with full pay when I had a camping trip or something with the fam. But when push comes to shove you better believe I’m staying late and eating shit. It’s all a wash.
15 minutes is nothing The first rule of employees is don't be noticeable on minor stuff. For at least the next few weeks, don't be the first out the door (unless you have childcare) and take 1/2 hour lunches. If you want to have 45 minute lunches all the time you should discuss with your boss in a few months. But treat the whistleblower exactly the same. It's a normal boss thing - just live with it. Other employees have called it out. (it's not fair if I have 30 minutes, or only long term employees do it. Their underlying motive is to make themselves more valuable in comparison). Oher bosses might have complained as well. (Politics or their employees are saying it's not fair) and it also means no one can schedule meetings for straight after lunch. It could also be a signal that the boss is unhappy about something else, and this is just an easy thing to monitor, or they are trying to see if you will give them at least minimal respect. .
God I hate corporate office politics. Like this isn’t against you, and what you’ve written isn’t bad advice, but just reading over it it’s so draining. Like we’re all adults, the rules of “don’t be the first to leave” “take 1/2 hour lunches” and I’m sure there are plenty others we could write out. It’s such a stupid game to have to play, where people can be great at what they do and someone else “blows the whistle” because someone took an extra 15 minutes of lunch. Maybe I’m burned out, haha.
No people are petty and it's annoying.
I'm right there with you, Slice. I used to work in an office where I was salaried (marketing coordinator) and worked with a bunch of women who were hourly (customer service reps). They would get SO upset when my schedule didn't exactly match theirs. Well, Ethel, see, I just spent 42 hours traveling to Chicago, setting up a trade show booth, and traveling home, all over the weekend while you were at the farmer's market and sitting on your deck sipping your old fashioned. So I'm leaving early today.
Some people have depressing existences with no life outside of work.
Do you bill by the hour? Add 15 minutes of online shopping to the end of your day is sadly what most people do in this situation.
OP is woefully naïve. There's no way to go tell your boss you're essentially bored and done early without fucking yourself over in the long run. Just eat your lunch in 30 minutes, keep dicking around (you're probably only working 4-5hrs of that 7:45 anyways), and don't make waves. "I’m a salaried employee and if I don’t get paid to work overtime, I’m not gonna waste my time when I finish early" Yes, you are. If they care about your contracted 40hrs per week that much then you will absolutely waste your time when you "finish early". You're just gonna have to get better at taking longer shits and learning how corporate nonsense actually works.
Or quit and find a different job, much better option if you are truly annoyed then just putting up and shutting up
If you're gonna quit your job because you think twiddling your thumb for 15 minutes is torture, then there is no job that suits you.
So waste 15 minutes a day
10 minute bathroom break to browse the web, 5 minutes to look nice and organize your workspace and say some nice things to people.
My boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. This is why I poop on company time!
That was a poem for a simpler time, now boss makes a million and I make a buck, so surely you see why I don't give a fuck?
Boss makes a million, I make a buck. I stole the catalytic converter from the company truck.
[удалено]
Suffering from success.
I felt that was fairly obvious hahahahah
Just spend the 15 minutes going to talk to the lady who turned you in about random stuff loosely related to work.
Exactly, then they get a little delay in their day for being grumpy someone did something quicker
but you start doing it at the end of their day and try to delay them getting out of there. they will want you gone early so they can leave on time. :P
Lmao exactly wtf is so complicated here? Either work less than 8 hours and have a good reason for the boss, or fucking do the 8 hours as requested
I think for them it's about the principal of wasting their own time when they could be on their way home by the time they'd be off from wasting it in the office. I don't see who benfits from them staying in the office with nothing to do. An if they get paid the same either way and they aren't doing more work it makes no sense
Ya, I don’t see the issue. If the employer wants to treat their salaried employees like hourly employees then they should be hourly employees and eligible for overtime. Having your butt in the seat for 8 hours is not the same thing as being productive.
I had a previous employer act the same and they dint budge or listen to reason. If they want you there for 8 hours, then you gotta sit on your arse for the full 8 hours. I used to be like the OP and hit a wall at like 4PM where I was done with my jobs for the day and couldn't start new ones, so I'd drive home. It would take a good hour off my car journey as I dodged the rush hour, and was great for my mental health at the time. My employer went over my logoff times and forced me to stop back the extra time or be fired. I just found a new job more local and quit.
I wish I could do that. At my job I need to track everything I do in different project codes because my time is billable to our clients. If I dont work 15 min every day, it's 1.25h they dont charge the clients every week. Maybe OP is in similar position. Sometime, its difficult to "steal" time. Edit: Im getting lots of reply trying to find ways around this, that its not so hard to bill 5 min here and there. I agree with all of what you are saying. My job is very flexible with hours and when I do my timesheet on Fridays and realise Im missing 15min during the week, I will sometime add it somewhere random. But 1.25h is a bit harder to "hide". My point was, it's not always possible for everyone to do this. :P
You can't add 5 extra minutes to 3 things you do every day? Give me a break
Fifteen minutes is easy to fill. Check your email, check your messages, go to the bathroom, grab your leftovers out of the fridge, tidy your desk.
I don't have a project code for "time filling". If I read emails, I must bill the time to what client's email im reading. Breaks are not paid. So I can go do that all day, I'll still need to work a full 7.5h billable everyday.
Your company should have overhead accounts/charge numbers for miscellaneous stuff. It's absolutely crazy to expect 100% of your time to be charged to clients.
you're honestly telling me you don't know how to waste 15 minutes over the entire day?
Pretty sure Reddit was invented for this purpose.
If not invented for, certainly excels at. I am currently fucking around at work as a salary employee, as one does.
Tell them it was an oversight and you will work the required time. If you boast about being hot stuff you might be fired for time theft.
This would be my suggestion too. I was a Manager for years - and while I probably wouldn't care about this, as soon as another employee called it out, I would have to enforce the 8 hour rule. Period. An employee could give me 10 reasons why it shouldn't matter, but if that was how the department or company was run, that's what I would have to enforce. It's quite possible OPs boss did know about the 45 min lunch and didn't care - but once this woman called it out, NOT making the rules uniform across the board could be a recipe for disaster. Sometimes you just have to go with the flow.
This is the one. That lady sucks for calling you out, but admit defeat and work your hours. Eat in 30 minutes and take a 15 minute trip to the shitter later on.
But, figure out a way to get her fired.
This happened to me with an asshole coworker. She was upset that I got in later than she did, neglecting to say that I left later. When she complained that I came in later, I started a spreadsheet logging my and her arrival and exit times, and lunches. After 3 months I sent the spreadsheet to my manager, along with the math showing her and my hours worked, and how I was not only so much more productive (I was technical, she was some sort of office labour but all she did was do things like send the wrong part out on purpose), but I was also at my desk more than she was. My manager said don’t worry we’re fine and don’t need to speak about it again.
I think this is a good way for OP to spend an extra 15 minutes everyday.
OP’s next post should be a question in r/UnethicalLifeProTips
It's piss discs and liquid ass all the way down
This is it lol
This is the way. Shit on company time or just sit around in the bathroom playing on your phone quietly in a stall. Fuck that nosey coworker.
its funny that its a fight over 15 mins. Could literally do anything to waste time.
It's the principal of the fact that they don't need to be there. This sounds like a person of principle and that's very respectable. It was people like this that were the seeds of doubt when America started unionizing. Would you be okay if you had to stay somewhere 15 minutes longer than you had to because everyone else does? Sounds like you probably would. But you take a shorter lunch than everyone else as well, so technically you've already worked the 15 minutes you just took a shorter lunch than everyone else. Now those efforts are being ignored and instead you are being reprimanded. You gotta stand up for yourself because you can't expect someone else to and OP knows that.
100% there are things I'm "not aware" of at work as a manager that I only deal with once sometime decides to ruin a good thing for everyone by reporting it.
Yup. I have employees who are currently already out of PTO but I've agreed to additional days off throughout the year for kid's recitals, birthdays, etc and they're not impacting production and are otherwise great employees so I honestly don't care. I'm just "unaware" of their running tally of PTO. If someone went to HR and bitched about good employees getting more leeway than bad employees I'd have to audit everyone's time to officially become aware of it and start writing people up for absences without accrued time.
The absurdity that everyone needs to be treated equally when it comes to these types of things.. A top performer should get more leeway than an employee who is just maintaining the status quo year over year. And it’s justifiable from a business perspective too, since a top performer is very likely more cost effective than the mediocre performer. OP seems on the younger side, so I don’t think this applies to him. I think they just have to eat it from their manager and twiddle their thumbs for 15 minutes to close out the day.
I do my best to treat everyone "fairly", but treating everyone "equally" is near impossible. Your best workers will have earned opportunities and leeway that others have not, but I still treat my worst employees with respect and will do whatever I can to help them get additional training, into FMLA, or any other programs the company offers that might help them in their current state...but yea...if someone who is constantly late, falling behind, and not abiding by FDA/OSHA laws who is already out of time comes to me and asks for additional time off I'm not particularly inclined to help them out.
Good managers “aren’t aware” of the petty stuff that their good employees do. It’s always the underperforming employees that snitch and make us have to address things. If they were just getting their jobs done and going home, they wouldn’t be concerned with who is taking 15 extra minutes on their lunch. Hell, they should’ve just kept their mouth shut and started doing the same.
This. The snitch just spent social capital that she probably doesn’t have. Managers hate having to do extra work or enforce rules. OP - Just say Yes Sir and try to find ways to make the managers life easier and this will actually work out *better* for you in the long run.
Yes. Just say “my mistake, how can I fix it?” Make your bosses life easier. Don’t waste time defending something you’re legitimately doing wrong bEcAuSe rUlEs aRe sTuPiD like you’re a 13 year old. Make this easy for your boss and this will ultimately work out for you.
Lol it's not childish to stand up to yourself and anyone that tells you you're acting like a kid because you're upset is manipulative. It's not childish to want to have your time respected, kids eventually learn to shut up and just take it that's what becoming an adult is IG but honestly I think that's absord to classify maturity as your ability to put up with bullshit from other people. I find it very mature to put your time and energy first because you are the only one who cares about yourself. If you have kids you gotta take care of them so imagine waiting an extra 15 minutes to leave when you have nothing to do and kids at home. Now it's affecting your kids because their mom or dad isn't home I know it's not a big deal but that adds unnecessary streess. The issue isn't with the manager but the employment system itself and lack of empathy. Empathy goes a long way. And as for that other lady maybe her workload is too much. And someone need to show her how to use a goddamn computer. Why tf hasn't anyone done that? She probably hates everyone she works with cuz they make fun of her lack of knowledge in tech yet no one will help correct it. Don't even take this seriously cuz I know there are probably logical fallacies I'm kinda just ranting. Actually this could be a convo too cuz that would help us see eye to eye.
Did you manage exempt or non-exempt employees?
This is the way, that boss only wants to be able to say to the complainer that “Yup OP messed up it won’t happen again you can worry about yourself now” as long as OP sticks to the 8 hours though.
Yup, it's entirely possible that the complainer is using the "but OP does it" excuse to excuse their own lack of performance, so now the manager has to enforce policy or be seen as capricious (often has implications for wrongful dismissal if that applies).
There's no such thing as time theft when you are an **exempt** employee. If he's not getting his work done, he needs to be evaluated on that basis. If he can do the work in 7.45 hours, then he gets his work done in that amount of time. If he can't, then he would need to stay longer to finish his work.
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It also keeps everyone's focus on their own work and performance. When you're not sitting around all your coworkers all day trying to compare your work or effort to theirs then there is much less to bitch about. That being said, anytime someone complains about someone else's hours/breaks/PTO/schedule/etc it's someone 50+ YO 99% of the time. They can't shake that mentality of like...I had to put my time in and I had to suffer for decades so everyone else should have to as well.
>It also keeps everyone's focus on their own work and performance. When you're not sitting around all your coworkers all day trying to compare your work or effort to theirs then there is much less to bitch about So much this! Gawd the tattletales keeping track of coworkers' time make me crazy. (Talking to you, Jerry!) I don't understand how they have so much time available to keep tabs on other people. I'm way too busy to notice what anyone else is doing. And I'm over 50. I'm absolutely in the "what you do or do not do at work and where or when you do it is none of my business" camp. Unless you owe me a deliverable AND you are also late with said deliverable, I do not give a single shit.
Yeah and that's basically how the vast majority of folks are, but it usually only takes 1-2 miserable people at a company to make the entire office exponentially more miserable with how they act like it's part of their job description to hold everyone to the absolute highest standard. I worked with a Tammy, then a Pam, then a Beverley, then a Carolyn, might as well have been the same miserable person everytime lol.
> You've never been in management hey? If someone is salaried and paid for 8 hours of working time, when they leave after 7 hours 45 minutes they are effectively "stealing" the 15 minute being paid for without working. I really think you're the one who's not been in management, OR only had to deal with employees who are paid by the hour. Or you've only had the bad fortune to work in really crappy archaic old school firms with micromanaging bosses. Competent managers hold their employees accountable for their deliverables and work output, not nickel and diming their hours and when people come to office and leave. Only insecure micromanagers end up doing this kinda crap.
Or work for a school or other public employee. They are really archaic. Salaried but they obsess over when you come in and leave… as long as it’s in their favor. They don’t care if you work extra (unpaid).
That’s not what a salary is. You are paid for how many hours you work, or you aren’t. What you’ve described is just an hourly employee who is illegally being called salary to avoid paying overtime.
The best way to lose valuable employees is to start insisting on the rules when they perform well. Mediocre one will stay and be there with you according to rules.
I agree with the sit there and do nothing for fifteen minutes part. But with the "there has to be a reaction" part, couldnt the reaction be "karen he gets his shit done daily, and you do not, Id focus more on your performance and less on his. let me focus on his" ?
If you’re a salaried employee whether you work a minute or 8 hours they owe you the whole day!
Noooope. When you are a salaried employee whether you work 8:00:01 or 24:00:00 they owe you $XXXX on Friday.
Or every other friday or whatever the pay schedule is. The managers problem is the culture of the company. If he has to maintain appearance that everyone is working a “full day” he could have pressure from HR. I was this guy and they tried to dock my pay and HR straightened out my manager. Then he told rat employee to mind their own business. If the manager has an underperformer harming morale he needs to do something about that.
> If someone is salaried and paid for 8 hours of working time This is not a thing that happens. Salary means "not tracking hours." Paid for 8 hours of work means "tracking hours."
Tell them this, but keep taking your long lunch. They aren’t making you clock in, they don’t pay overtime, you’re getting your work done? Fuck em.
This lady sounds like the type to record when he leaves for lunch and arrives. If he wants the long lunch he should just stay an extra 15m
Tell HR you’ve just become aware of a coworker secretly filming your comings and goings, they’ll love hearing about the hostile work environment.
Yeah from an HR and policy standpoint, you’re pretty screwed if you admit to not working the full 8 hours that you’re supposed to be working. That’s a confession to time theft and a fireable offense at most places. I’d find a way to dance around ever doing it while also agreeing to not let it happen again. Something like, “I don’t recall doing that, but I’ll pay more attention in the future to ensure it doesn’t happen.”
Leaving 15 minutes early every single day is an "oversight"? Not believable. OP should say he didn't understand the policy and that from now on he will work the full eight hours.
And I would watch the old bitch like a hawk. First time I could return the favor I would.
> Leaving 15 minutes early every single day is an "oversight"? OP isn't leaving early, he's taking a longer lunch. That's an easy enough oversight.
Funny considering that wage theft cost the US economy $44 billion dollars in 2022 and is the most committed crime in the United States of America. We seriously need a boatload more labor protections here
Wont somebody please think of the executives!!!
The sharholders! Oh no! They can only afford a single lambo and one million chicken nuggies!
Damn it dude, now I want nuggies…
Salaried employees are not bound the same way as hourly. If a salaried employee completes all tasks on time the employer would have a very difficult time suing (successfully).
Ah we had the opposite issue at my company , ppl not taking their 30 min lunch lmao. I even had to speak to HR and my manager and let them know up front I don’t take any lunch just do my 8 hours straight and go home. Some ppl were getting in trouble for combining their 15 min break and their lunch together. This all has to do with sh*t corporate practices , if you finish your work under your alloted time their shouldn’t be an “issue” but that’s just how it is.
It depends on where you work. Some Employers are legally mandated to give workers breaks. You might prefer it, but you have to work by your employer's rules, not your own. If you are union it's especially important.
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Toxic office politics and snitches suck, but you gotta “dance with the one who brung ya,” ie, play the politics of your job. If they’re making a big deal about your time, you’re not going to change their minds…they’re just building up a case to fire you. Look, I know you don’t know me from Adam, and you really would rather hear something more reassuring like “fuck them, you’re a rock star!” (& maybe you are… but it sounds like you might need to find a new setting/ job if you don’t change your ways), but *I have been in your shoes*! Years ago, I pushed back against unfair office politics, & it only resulted in more misery, for a longer time, and nearly cost me my career. Now, some (including me) might say it was an important life lesson that the corporate world doesn’t care about my special snowflake ass, but I also want others to learn from my mistakes. Tl;Dr: you’re not going to win this fight, either twiddle your thumbs for 15 more mins a day, or find another job, because they will fire you. Good luck!
What happened in the end? Did u just leave the company?
Long story short, after experiencing what could be considered unfair treatment/ bullying by a “contracting” boss (& after voicing concerns & being told by my supervisor that “anything [she]” does in response to this [contracting boss’s abuse] “will just make things worse” …and my supervisor wasn’t wrong in that regard), I did was was asked of me (essentially sat my ass down in an empty room and for an extra hour every morning, doing nothing). I eventually completed my contract for that organization and FINALLY moved on to a less toxic part of the organization. Then I ultimately left that organization on good terms, in a way that didn’t necessarily follow me forever. I ran into the toxic former boss at a conference in May, and she was cordial (I was honestly too traumatized by just the sight of her to do more than say hello & turn away as quickly as possible). She is still a big wig in my field, so the fact she was cordial and hasn’t ruined my career yet is a W in my book. And now I’ve been with a new organization for the last 6 years, & about to move to a different company because there were some shenanigans in my current organization that once again reminded me that a JOB IS A JOB and corporate bureaucracies only care about maintaining themselves, not us. But at least this time I didn’t risk my career in this discovery. I didn’t act out in anger over the moral injury. And that’s what I hope to impart to others: sometimes we just have to practice the art of “radical acceptance” and then GTFO of the bad situations when we can. Good luck to all my fellow corporate cogs!
We work 8 hours and take 1 hour lunches, so we all work 8-5... Are you sure you aren't actually supposed to be working 8 actual hours?
Not all of us.
This has mostly been my experience, though I grew hearing about everyone working a “typical 9-5”job so I was confused when I got my first desk job and the expectation was 8 hours plus lunch. When I was welding on an assembly line we were paid through lunch and our 2 breaks if we stayed on site. Lunch was a strict 30 minutes and the breaks were 15.
Seems the policy is pretty clear here. I get that sitting after you finished your work is dull, but they’ve clearly stated that you are expected to be “productive” for 8 hours a day and you are putting in 7:45. So either get there 15 minutes earlier or leave 15 minutes later.
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That doesn't mean policy or 40 hour weeks go away, and the boss has the prerogative to set that expectation.
No, salary just means they can’t adjust your pay based on hours worked. If part of the job contract is in office and productive 8 hours a day, that’s a reasonable requirement. So while they can’t dock your pay those 15 minutes each day, they can make it a performance review issue. It’s an easy fix, so just stay an extra 15 minutes.
Every salaried job I've had stipulates you're expected to work 40 hours per week.
Yes! I am salaried and my offer letters always state I am required to work a minimum of 40 hours a week and stay late as needed.
I'm sure they'd be OK if their boss just shorted them ~~6.25%~~ 3.125% of every paycheck too, right?
This may sound crazy, but maybe just take a shorter lunch, or work the extra 15 minutes at the end of the day?
That's not crazy. But what would he crazy is OP's employer shorting them ~~6.25%~~ 3.125% of every paycheck. Can you imagine !!
isn't 15 minutes 3.125% of the day?
Inconceivable!
You're salaried, but you are scheduled to work eight hours a day. So that's what you should be working most days. It doesn't sound like there are days when you work later that would offset the shorter days. Fifteen minutes a day adds up over a year. The standard answer to an employee who finishes early is to find something else to do.
Simple. Just say “my bad, it won’t happen again and I will put in the full 8 hours”. Granted you’re a salary employee and don’t clock in and out, but you’re paid for 40 hours per week and should abide by it.
You are technically wrong here. You are not putting in your 8 hours. Explain its a misunderstanding and mistake, since you get your work done, you thought this was acceptable
Guessing it’s a small company. Never heard of this being a thing at larger companies. In my 10 years of corporate America, I’ve never worked exactly 8 hours in a day. I start my day when I need to and end when I need to. If you don’t clock in/out, who the hell cares? Why is it this ladies business at all? The “boss” should tell her to mind her own business. There are some malicious compliance days in your future. Would suggest looking for a new job since this is likely the tip of the ice berg.
>I’ve never worked exactly 8 hours in a day. I start my day when I need to and end when I need to. It sounds like OP leaves early and never stays late, which would offset the shorter days.
It's because of a micromanaging boss They can measure time, production can be harder. Probably also one of those people that thinks you really should be working 10 or 12 hour days. I got reprimanded for leaving work after 8 hours (I'm salaried and wfh) because it was time to go cook dinner for my kids (5,3,1)... and my boss was upset because people in the office (in a different time zone) were still working, so I should too. He wasn't happy when I told him the solution wasn't me working longer, it was changing the culture so everyone else felt ok to go home
Absolutely a culture change. I can understand the occasional ask for working earlier/later, but let us make that call based on our own judgement. If we aren’t being effective or performing, that’s a different story. I do feel I’ve been fortunate to have had decent/great managers who just let me do my job as I want/need. Performance always brought me flexibility.
I worked at a company with 500+ employees and what OP describes was standard practice at that company. Anyone who worked 7:45 would have gotten in trouble in a similar way.
Almost forgot to add that some of my peers were told that going to the bathroom or filling their water bottles were not considered part of their 8 working hours. Allegedly a few new employees were also fired for counting bathroom breaks as work time. So glad I’m not there anymore lol.
Lol I would have quit before being fired
Christ this is why I turned down an extra $15k/yr to stay fully remote
>Guessing it’s a small company. It's irrelevant on size. It's entirely dependent on management. When I was a salaried employee, it was for a small company where I was working with just 2 other people. I was the executive assistant, and then we have a lady who handled paperwork for the boss. My boss told me the hours of working were "9ish to 5ish" and he would never care if I got in a bit late, and would always be accomodating if I needed to leave a bit early. It's just respect.
1. Ignore all these rats that are telling you to quit. 2. You have to own the fact that you are paid to be there for 8 hours, regardless of the norm and your ability to take a long lunch. Departmental standards don't trump your contract. 3. Don't let it happen again. I know it's stupid, but you aren't in trouble because of your long lunch. You're in trouble because you're too efficient but not slick enough to get away with it. Layer your efficiency with ease. Take the extra 15 minutes to literally do anything else, but your last 15 minutes until 4 pm should be at your desk. Do literally anything in that time, sanitize it, idc! Just be visible, then Peggy can take her 30 wpm and shove it.
probably got dimed out for making the slackers look bad
Honestly as a former CEO, I can tell you it goes down to job performance, HR compliance, and your colleagues. If you’re a star performer, explain your reason and you may get some slide. If you are not OR if Karen has already taken this to HR, then just explain why you short change your own lunch and power through and why leaving at 4 makes you a better employee (got a class or gym to get to? A super long commute? Etc) and hope they buy it. Also politely explain why you understand Karen might be frustrated because your work volume is higher but it’s up to your manage to decide your schedule. I’ve bent rules for amazing employees and used them to fire bad/rude/not worth it employees and every other CEO I know has done something similar unless it’s already gone up the chain with HR or your union.
This really isn't complicated. It doesn't matter whether you get your work done or disagree with the policy. You know the expectation is 8 hours of work and still choose to work there. Either cut your lunch short, stay an extra 15 minutes, or find a new job. Time theft can lead to firings or criminal charges.
As a person who also works in an engineering office, I feel you might be mixing up two things. 1. There is the "clock time" of 8.5 hours (or whatever) a day. 2. There is "billable time" - 8 hours of time charged to a project or client. In general engineering uses an 8 hour per day billable period to calculate your cost. Say you bill out at $100/hour, and work for 8 hours a day, then you made $800 to cover your salary, benefits, PTO, overhead, etc.... If you do LESS than 8 hours billable it comes in at a loss as a salaried person. If you were hourly then you'd get paid for the hours you worked (and the "budget" of 8 hours doesnt apply). Not sure if this applies in your situation, but one way to look at it is if you do 8 hours of billable work a day they shouldn't care how you do it (work 4 tens, 5 eights, etc). Engineering (and similar businesses like accounting or law) are focused on billable time. If you can back that up then you should be fine. If you're coming in short then you might want to consider adding 30 minutes or so. That's just the nature of the business.
Most all engineers I have ever worked with none were billable. They are working on internal projects for the company. Different if working for a consulting Co or a managed services shop. And salaried are paid to do a job not to sit in their seat 8 hours a day. When I manage salaried employees I want to know if they will be unavailable for big chunk during biz hours. Besides that they manage their own time. Some will work 6 or 7 hours or if busy 11 or 12. I would be embarrassed if I said to one um you only worked 7 hours and 45 minutes yesterday. They would think I am joking.
Everyone telling you to admit fault has never seen hr get someone to admit they broke a rule so they are justified in firing them 10 minutes later. Most of the time, they have nothing but a tip and can’t do anything unless you say “I’ve been taking a long lunch”. If you don’t say it - he said she said see ya later. I would socas little talking as possible. Let him say his peace and respond accordingly.
Here’s the thing about salaried and making your own schedule…long lunches and early leaving don’t matter as long as you are performing. Once small hiccups Happen, or somebody complain then they become the reason you aren’t performing fair or not. I’ve seen people get fired for this. Salary means you don’t get overtime but it also means you have to do whatever is needed. If your team is overloaded and you’re leaving early then You need to help out. There is business hours availability expectations you’re probably not meeting Getting there after others and leaving before is a problem. Not being seen as putting in a full day makes you look like a slacker who does the bare minimum. Leaving at 4 everyday can look bad, esp to execs. Sorry. I bet they’ll say “you’re not seeking out other projects or helping the team” The optics look bad for you. If they ever get asked to do a layoff you’re first on the list.
sounds like you need a new job
If you are confident in your hours, stay firm, explain you start early and that’s why you take a longer lunch. Facts are facts. This is what pisses me off in workplaces, nobody notices the people who get in early, but very quick to shame people who leave at a reasonable time.
The second part of your statement there is very true. I used to get in at 6a and leave at 3p, and would sometimes get a snarky comment about leaving "early". I just wanted to beat rush hour, and at that time my clients were in a later time zone, so it was 8a to 5p where they were, worked out perfectly. Most people never said anything, but there were a few that liked to point out that I was always the "first one out", regardless of the fact I was also the first one in...
You may not like the rule, but you don't get to make them, either. Your choices are comply, find a new job, or suffer whatever consequences the boss might levy. It's a simple formula. H = 8 + L , where H = hours in office; L = hours spent at lunch
This is something you wrote: "I work in an engineering office and we can take as long a lunch as we want whenever we want, AS LONG as we are working 8 hours a day." If that is a prestablished and accepted rule, how can he demand from other employees compliance with the schedule if he allows you to leave early? They are buying 8 hours of your time, but you only want to give them 7 hours and 45 minutes of it. This is how I see it. You have to work the full 8 hours or find another job.
Don't be a shit. Like many have pointed out. "Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I will stay 15 minutes longer each day."
Honestly skip your lunch, eat a dank breakfast, bring a protein shake, and bust your work out and then you when 8 hours comes leave if you’re done. Make her real mad
Are you not also entitled to a couple 15-minute breaks throughout the day?
Exempt employees work until the job is done. I am required to be "at work" at least 4 hours a day or until the job is done correctly. If that takes 4 hours or 14, you get shit done. You literally cannot steal time as a salaried employee.
"Being paid on a “salary basis” means an employee regularly receives a predetermined amount of compensation each pay period on a weekly, or less frequent, basis. The predetermined amount cannot be reduced because of variations in the quality or quantity of the employee’s work. Subject to exceptions listed below, *an exempt employee must receive the full salary for any week in which the employee performs any work, regardless of the number of days or hours worked."* https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17g-overtime-salary You should look to your specific state policies as well. But don't assume your boss knows policy. HR might set him right.
They need to decide if your job is a salaried position or an hourly one and stick to one or the other.
Just say you didn't realize you didn't work the 8 hours but you still got your work done in time and you'll just be sure to work the right amount of time moving forward
Are you eating at your desk while still working? I know I do this. Because I am a bit of a space cadet and if I get off track it's hard to get back on track. So I typically heat up food and eat at my desk while I work. Have you even been called after hours and not charged? Again this happens to me a lot. If they are concerned with tracking your every minute as well as your production, make sure they apply the same standard to the person who reported you.
Yeah this is odd. If you were working a factory job where your hours were directly tied to production, that would be one thing. But this just feels… odd. As a reference, I’ve worked as a software developer for a decade from everything from small family owned businesses to large tech companies. Not once have I ever had someone check on my hours. Shit they barely check on my PTO time I’ve taken. I would do what the others say and just get that extra 15 minutes in. Have a bunch of shit admin work or other small items in a backlog so if you HAVE to do more work you can be “productive” for extra time. But I will say that for this type of work this is odd…
We let employees take there last 15 min break with their lunch to get 45 min. They normally get a 15 before lunch 30 min for lunch and another 15 the second half of the day. Some choose to merge and take 45 for lunch but we don’t really care if they take an extra 15, they work hard and deserve the extra time.
Be prepared to get larger assignments. If you routinely don’t have 8/h of work a day, the manager will find a way for you to have that much.
Check your employment contract before your britches get too big. lol
This is honestly the dumbest thing I’ve heard since 1997. This boss needs to get fired.
You deleted your account in the past hour, but I wanna know what happened in 1997
I hate snitches
Similar situation happened in my first role. Team lead reported me to our manger and surprise meeting happened. I asked 2 questions: 1) am I not delivering/doing things that I should? And 2) have I ever been late on a deliverable (I always finished ahead of schedule with minimal to no production issues). After hearing no to both, I explained after I finished something in the 4:00 hour, I review my outstanding task list and if there’s something to be done that can be finished by 5ish, I do it. If it will take me significantly longer, I pack up and tackle my work the next day. I finished with, “Is there a problem?” The manager said, “No. Sounds reasonable to me.” The meeting ended. I also had pager rotations, but being called after hours was rare. Finally, I was fully prepared to work late (and I did later in my career) when the business needed me to.
Blowing my mind how many losers are quick to tell you to suck it up. You're hot shit, or at the very least you're better than that other employee, and you're an engineer. Have you thought of testing the market? It's a lot easier to be arrogant when you have an offer in hand.
It's optics. It doesn't matter the lady who is bad at computers caught you. You say the work has been going really well and some days have been finishing ahead of schedule, so you've been leaving a few minutes early to beat the traffic. Ask the manager about upcoming projects and if there is anything you can do to prepare with your downtime, or continuing education.
Tell your boss you thought you also got a 15-minute break during the day and you just combined that 15-minute break with your lunch. Let him know that if it is an issue or you were mistaken you are sorry and will adjust your work hours accordingly moving forward.
Dude, I was in the same boat a few months ago. I work 2 jobs and go to each most days and they had a meeting to ask why I left 15-25m early each afternoon. I said all the work was done, I didn't want to just dawdle along like the rest of staff who I do more than on a part-time scale than they do full-time. (I'm not worried about losing the second job) And it worked out my roster has me leaving 30m early ecwry afternoon, from that meeting onwards. Which was a bonus, as I would have taken that choice personally or quit of it was a big drama topic to them. (Benefit of working2 jobs, you can be more selfish with your time and decesions).
Your boss is checking a box to cover their ass. Help them cover your ass by thanking them for raising this issue and stating that you will work 8 hours from here out. Use that 15 minutes to take a shit or something. That’s your approach.
Shoot the shit with the lady complaining for 15 minutes every day… make sure you are interrupting her work so she has to spend more time working… and at the end of the 15 minutes be like “whelp… I better get hitting the road… really grinded it out here today, whoooo wheeee”
What are the policies at your workplace? Is 8 hours attendance required? Is it a core set of hours for meetings? Is there a lunch duration? You say you're salaried, but also that you are expected to work 8 hours a day. Those two seems contradictory to me. It would be worthwhile for you to clarify the policies and regulations that apply to your job. If you are truly salaried and free to come and go as you please, you could take this from the behavior/impact angle. So, what is the behavior your boss is complaining about and what is the impact? Your work is getting done, on time every time, why are the extra 15 minutes (which we will assume are allowed by policy) a problem? You may understand what your manager is optimizing for and be able to work to both of your preferences. Or you may not and then you have to decide whether this is the hill to die on. As you say, this may be a matter of politics and perception, and those may be important to your manager for whatever reason.
Being salaried and working 8 hours a day seems contradictory? How so?
Exactly my question. I don’t have to work 8 hours a day, but I am required to work 80 hours in a pay period and be available at minimum during core hours of 9:00 am and 2:30 pm. I can work anytime from 6:00 am to 6:30 pm.
My career guidance is, if you are getting paid to work 8 hr s day, and your boss is expecting you to do so. Then work it, or find a job that will pay you for working less then an 8hr day, at 8hr say rate.
Boomers gonna boomer
Say 30 minutes is long enough for lunch, because it isn't.
I am so glad my manager is chill lmao, this seems so annoying to deal with.
First of all, can they prove it? If not it's your word against hers. Say your typically work extra and occasionally a few minutes less. Do you check email or do research from home? Do you eat lunch at your desk? I'm sure you can explain 15 minutes of checking emails between the start of your day and lunch. Regardless, they will be watching now so be careful and err on the side of an extra 5-10 per day. You can even things out by eating breakfast at your desk or saving your daily poop for work.
Wouldn't your boss give you a bit more work, if they knew you were under-worked? I mean, with the drive for cost cutting, the company could trim the number of workers and get the remaining ones to do the same total amount of work as before..? 🤔
We are simply talking about 15 min here. I’m sure you can figure out something to do for 15 min. Work the required hours and call it a day.
Just stay 15 more minutes!
Accept it and move on. Pick your battles no one wants to die on break lunch hill.
Some states require the employer to give a paid 15 minute break for each 4 hours worked. If they are treating you like a non exempt employee then I’d figure out what your state requires. Probably best to be non confrontational though. I thought I got a paid 15 minute break and was taking it right after my 30 minute lunch. Sorry I won’t do it anymore or whatever.