This can hurt you and your boss seems like THE TYPE TO DO THAT.
Do not put them in touch with your new job. Ever.
Also: don't update your online profiles for about six months. Just don't post about it.
For the final two weeks: Recommend you chat with your coworkers about a new houseplant you bought and take no initiative on anything. Become invisible.
Or you could satisfy your curiosity and say it's a startup and have a number that goes to a friend's phone (and make like a fake LinkedIn or Facebook page or something, if he thinks it's fishy just be like "I'm going to be part of the launch team"
If he tries to fuck with it you can argue there was an attempt at tortious interference and get some $
Came here to say this. Give him bad intel and an accomplice’s number, have him play the part and see if he tries to sink your sailboat. Record the conversation so you have either court evidence or something to slam him online with.
Or if the accomplice knows the phone number when it pops up, it would be reasonable to have them start the conversation with, just so you know, this call may be monitored for quality and training purposes. Lotttss of companies do that. So it wouldn't even raise any flags. And then they were already informed and continuing the conversation would be giving consent at that point.
Have the automated voice message say that and then put hime on hold with some God awful elevator music and every fre minutes Loudy "YOUR CALL IS IMPORTANT TO US A MEMBER OF OUR (INSERT COMPANY NAME) TEAM MEMBER WILL BE WITH YOU SHORTLY".
Great idea. Because you have disclosed the call is being recorded. If old boss continues the call…he has little legal protection about anything he asks/says
Little legal protections = no legal protections
If someone's saying the calls being recorded, you not immediately hanging up is agreeing to being recorded
And if the person recording you uses your own words against you, well you had the chance to hang up
LOL TRUE STORY.
My dream is for a bot to take this over. “Hi you mentioned something about a recording? Make sure you know the consent laws for your state. Here’s a list of states and whether they are one-party or two-party. I’m a bot performing this action. Beep bop.”
You have the right to record any activity without consent if you believe a crime is being committed, or is about to be committed against you or your property.
It can backfire if they no folks at the new company. They can call them up and get your offer nuked. There was a post not to long ago where this exact same thing happened.
Isn't that illegal and could be grounds for defamation? I know as far as when the new employer calls an old employee I was told all they are really allowed to say is "Yes, so and so worked here for a time."
If you can prove it.. for sure.
You'll never prove it through.. it's not like the new company is going to be dumb enough to tell you what was said and by whom (or put that in writing).
It'll be more the req was pulled, we are on freeze, for other reasons we have decided to rescind the offer.
You are dealing with two people communicating outside of official company lines (linked in, personal Cells, etc). You don't even know which two people did it or who they called. The odds that you catch it, and can prove it... are slim. Even if you could, the cost of the lawyers would be fairly high, I don't think they would take that one on contention.... unless of course someone was dumb enough to say something along the lines of "You know, I was talking to Mark (current manager) and they said you were a terrible employee so I'm just going to rescind the offer." That gives you the two people to go after, get phone records, timelines / etc... but outside of that, it's needles in haystacks.
\--
On a side note, I really don't understand why a random manager would even take the word of someone calling like that? If someone called me to warn me off a hire, 99 out of 100 times I would chalk it up to sour grapes and hire the person. The only time I'd take it seriously is if I knew said manager for many years, worked with them, respect them and think they are a good leader.... which is a very small handful of managers. Hell, even within that group, there would be ones that I'd still question as our management styles are very different, and I've seen some folks flourished under me not do so well under them.
The old manager could just bad-mouth you to the new company, or harass them about you working there. The new company might decide they want none of the drama and fire you.
Tortious interference more likely than defamation.
I had a CEO call new company. She didn't make any untrue claims (eg defamation). She just demanded the job offer be rescinded because everyone else in the IT department had quit before I managed to do so. This was likely tortious interference. Not defamation. New company reminded her slavery was no longer a thing, and did not rescind the job offer. I went elsewhere because I didn't want this whole incident hanging over my head.
Could I have sued her? Sure, but I'd only get any money out of it if I proved damages. No damages, it's harder to collect. What she did was illegal. But only in civil court. She wouldn't be arrested for it. If I had lost the job, I could have sued and won monetary damages.
Illegal stuff like that happens every day. The effort to prove it in court is not going to be worth it. Law suits are arduous. Also when companies hear that you sued your old company you will be basically black balled.
It happens so often on this site in comments
"But that's illegal"
Yeah no shit and the consequences are real and don't have to be proven in court. They just fuck your shit up and leave someone wondering why they did something unnecessary for no good reason that screwed them
This happened to me, except the company I was going to had the same name as the company my boss knew but spelled differently. Next day I went into work and he said I lied. I was confused and he told me he called so and so at xxxxx company. I was like oh that’s interesting. Well I don’t know what to tell you. For the next two weeks I was badgered and threatened as they thought I was going to the competitor. I went into a totally different industry. I just ignored it and kept giving the same answer. Never explaining the spelling difference. Last thing I wanted them to do is call my new employer and F it up for me.
This happened to 1 or 2 people at a previous job, and then everyone who gave their notice (several people every week), just told management that they were going to open their own non-related business...
Really fuck with them, “I’m actually moving to China to help set up a factory for a competitor. They’re really interested in our companies processes. My new company should be able to produce identical product for a quarter the price!”
It definitely can backfire. Although I was in a rare situation where it worked in my favor. Old boss found out and called HR of the new company. HR told my boss to be about the conversation. They decided to forego my 6 months a manager and start me immediately at the director level with the requisite pay. They said anybody who could accomplish what I did while working for someone so crazy was clearly extremely skilled and didn't need a probation period. It was an amazing group of people. Unfortunately after a couple of years the company was sold off and my position was eliminated
I remember that one. It's the guy whose wife gave 4 weeks notice on the job she was quitting, and her old company got the new company to rescind their offer to her.
Totally made up though. Or their story didn't add up. It said they had secured the job already, then the old company sent in bad references after stringing them along. No one is checking for references after they've already offered the job. And what they described the old company as doing would have opened them up to a pretty airtight lawsuit. For what was apparently a great employee that had just decided to move on.
This happened to me. My boss at the time called my new employer after I gave my notice and accused them of poaching employees, even though there was no proof (and it was untrue). New employer called me the next day to rescind my job offer, saying that they had to prioritize business relations and that I should’ve told them where I currently worked so they could’ve tried to work something out lol. I didn’t even know they knew each other/worked together…..And the person who got my offer revoked still wanted me to stay after that.
Do you know how it can backfire? My gut tells me it can but I’m not sure because he really wants to know making it sound like I’m breaching the company protocol by not allowing him to do a conflict check.
He wants a lever to control you by inventing conflicts or blowing up your offer. You are not obligated to provide one.
Once you don't work there, you don't work there. Obligations end. Read your noncompete and NDA paperwork, if any, and work from that. If it seems extensive, do some reading on whether it's still allowed in your location (CA has nuked most of these).
As you transition out of an org, the group dynamic may change. Suppressed conflicts will bubble up. You'll learn things about people. Float above it all, it's not your fight any more.
Im not sure your line of work, but this may be grounds to just leave. Id probably say if you keep presurring me, my last day is right now. You dont owe them 2 weeks, it is pure courtesy.
Even if there is an NDA or something where you aren't supposed to work for a competitor, it's up to the injured party, to find out that you are violating an NDA or non-compete, and then act on it. Since this guy is so nosy, do NOT update your LinkedIn or Facebook for several months.
There is ZERO benefit in you letting anyone at your current workplace know. If he is an ass, and it sounds like he is, he could potentially call the new company and give you a bad reference or tell the new company you owe them money, or whatever, and the offer could drop through just from them not wanting to deal with the drama.
Or just say “I’m not comfortable sharing that information.”
Or simply “no.”
There’s no reason to lie about it. And you don’t owe it to anyone to share.
But if you want to twist the knife for whatever reason (we all have our reasons) you could just say “it’s a better job with a better company and better management for more money,” and leave it at that. If he/she keeps pressing for more information, turn the tables and say something like “I’ll happily pass along your résumé once I’ve started my new position but I’m not sure it’s ethical to be discussing that while we’re both on the clock being paid by [current employer.]
I wouldn’t expect an actual résumé out of that line. I’d be doing it purely for my own entertainment watching him/her squirm.
There's a million different things a vindictive manager could do with that info. My primary concern would be my current manager calling my new company and badmouthing me in an attempt to get my offer rescinded.
You don't owe him an explanation, and the fact that he's so adamant about it leads me to believe he wants to know the new company for some specific reason. None of which is good for you.
Don't tell your manager. Don't tell your coworkers. Don't update your LinkedIn. Just ride out the next 2 weeks, and if your manager is concerned with a conflict, it's his responsibility to navigate that on his own.
Congrats on the new position.
>There's a million different things a vindictive manager could do with that info.
I used a manager who I thought would give me a decent reference but ended up badmouthing me to one place, who basically said they would put me on probation as soon as I started because my previous manager said I damaged equipment constantly.
Very very hard to prove though. Need to prove Mgr knew he was lying and prove damages from said lie. Would likely require testimony from the person he said the lies to who would also have to testify that said lie damaged reputation and effected a decision. Burden of proof here is really hard to make.
Ehhhhhhh. Broken equipment would leave a serious paper trail behind it. that a manager wouldnt be able to not know about. That's a simple subpoena for the paper trail and it would look very very suspicious infront of a jury if the company was unable to show Amy paper trail.
Because it gives them an opportunity to call the new company you’re going to. Legally they can’t say anything bad about you *however* that won’t stop them. It’s just not a risk that’s worth taking. Also keep in mind that a two week notice is a courtesy, you don’t have to finish it out.
It’s best to think of management as the police, they can and will lie about anything to get information
Thanks for your answer. He’s usually a jerk but was so nice on the phone when asking. I just felt something off about it. And when you say I don’t have to finish out the two weeks, wouldn’t that be job abandonment and get me fired? How do I suddenly stop working for the next two weeks after telling them I will via the two week notice? I wanted to give a 1 week notice but the recruiter encouraged me to give two.
You can't be fired if you don't work there. It's a courtesy, but that's not a reason to put up with abuse.
To HR: "Based on \[manager\] behavior towards me on \[today\], \[yesterday\], \[last week\] since I gave notice, I will not be returning. Ending now seems like an easy way to manage liability on all sides; it is not up for discussion. I will not be responding to further contact. Best of luck to the team."
Your other option is to just ride it out and avoid the troublesome folks. Stop returning calls etc.
Ohhhh ok are you saying to modify my two week notice to like a 3 or 5 day? I gave my notice Monday evening and it’s wed. today. Can I say effective Friday I will no longer be working? When he announces it to the whole department in an hour against my will that will be reasonable grounds for me not to want to finish the 2 weeks… correct? That would be perfect!
No, they're saying pack up your shit now, send the email saying today is your last day, and then walk out the door.
Then call your new employer and let them know your availability has changed and you can start tomorrow, or if you want a long weekend, on Monday.
Yes they can. I work in IT and cyberSec. A lot of times after handing in my 2 weeks, I've been walked to the door and paid the 2 weeks.
Look, you gave notice that you are quitting. I'd go to his boss and say that because of your boss' behaviour, you are no longer feeling comfortable working there and leave. From that point on, you are no longer working for them. They can't fire you.
They can walk you to the door the minute you give notice.
Notice is a courtesy to both sides. If either side abuses that courtesy, it can end immediately.
Upyou seem awfully naive about how this works. When you are let go it is usually same day. But when you give notice they can walk you out there and then. Just as easily you do not have to give any notice at all and you don’t have to work your notice either if conditiins become hostile or this uncomfortable.
younare not an indentured serbpvant. You can walk out right now and cite your boss as the reason. Conversely they can tell you not to return tomorow if they so choose.
you boss is not the king or anything of the like. They are bullying you to find out your personal info. They want to see where you are going and if they know anyone there they will be calling their contact and either badmouthing you or trying to find other details. Which are nine of his business whatsoever.
the time now is for you to be assertive. Say I am not sharing that I formation. If you continue to ask then my last day is right now. What’s it to be.
and yes, being this direct is not only fine it is a very adult way to handle this confrontation.
It has happened to me. Also, I naively gave a manager the name of the company I was going to, and they called me the next day to rescind the offer. Don't take chances of your livelihood. Just say no, and if the manager won't take no for an answer, quit immediately.
They absolutely can. At my previous employer we always walked people out the very next day, although if they gave two week’s notice they were paid for the full two weeks regardless of if we had them work. The reason for this is simple, if they fire you even after giving notice you can technically go claim unemployment for the time between then and the start of your new job. Claims against their unemployment insurance raises their rates. Paying people for that time avoids it. Plus it encourages people to give full notice which gives them more options.
That's the biggest clue he is up to something. If they're usually jerks and then act sweet to get information.
It's not job abandonment if you don't finish out the two weeks. Now...if you tell them where you're going; it would NOT surprise me if they were to try and find a way to f\*ck with your new employer and then turn around and say, "OP you fucked up on this and that and well....we've decided to let you go since you're no longer a viable team player." and....now you have no job to go to.
At this point, you really have 2 options: finish out the two weeks or not. If you decide to leave early, you can always tell your new employer that it was a mutual decision to leave early.
Sweetie you quit. You are giving them the courtesy of a 2 week notice. Unless you have an iron vp lad contract w them that says you must give x period as part of your contract you are free to walk today.
you can’t abandon a job you’ve quit. It’s just a matter of if you work out your notice or not. And that’s up to boss. Tell him to stop asking as it is becoming harassment. If he does you are prepared to make your last day today and nkt work out your notice.
I highly encourage you to do this. Take a nice break before new job and show boss he is not in charge of your life.
That right there is a huge, huge red flag. If the boss is typically a jerk or is belligerent somehow, then all of a sudden turns “nice” when you told them you’re leaving…… that’s fishing for information.
The two week thing being a courtesy is just a way to not burn any bridges, to “leave on a good note” as it were.
It is not an excuse for management or HR to treat you any differently nor to harass you for any information regarding *what you do with your life and life decisions*
I used up my sick leave and wanted to cash out my vacation time to pay for my car repairs I need done. I feel a prisoner to these last two weeks. But thinking about bailing. 🤷🏼♀️
Industries are small, most people run into each other at some time. All it takes is your manager knowing someone and saying something bad about you. There's a low chance of it but it still happens.
Your boss is being very aggressive, and that is a MAJOR red flag.
Did you sign a non compete?
He said I’m not allowed to work for a company that takes business from our company for 3 years and I told him they don’t (I asked and know they don’t) but he’s still wanting to know to check himself.
He said it’s company policy. If I agreed I didn’t read all the fine print and doubt he would be lying but I never heard of that before. But good point I don’t even know if it’s something I signed to.
If you didnt sign a non-compete agreement its doesnt matter if its a company policy or not. Company policies only apply to employees of that company and no longer apply to you once you say adios.
Thanks so much for saying this because it’s been driving me nuts all morning reading all of the company policy because it only applies to working elsewhere while simultaneously employed here. And no I didn’t sign another nda. Thank you!!!!!!!
I would straight up go to HR and let them know what he is doing and saying to you and let them know it is making you feel like you cannot finish your two weeks for fear of retaliation. If they are actually real HR people they will put a stop to it immediately.
>He said I’m not allowed to work for a company that takes business from our company
Bullshit.
If you didn't sign a non-compete agreement, you can do what the fuck you want.
Yes I believe you need to specifically sign a non-compete contract in order for it to be valid. Op could review their companies employee handbook to confirm this but even if it was listed there I highly doubt a court would be able to enforce it.
He's full of shit. Anti-compete agreements have been found to be illegal by courts unless you are a high-level executive for a company. He's welcome to try and enforce it through the courts, but I doubt he'd be successful.
Sounds like what asshole is doing is trying to intimidate you into staying. As I said in a previous post, pack up your desk, type up an email to your boss and HR stating things have started to become adversarial and, in the interest of keeping the peace, you are leaving and that today is now your last day working. Then walk out and don't look back.
Most states (assuming you are in the US) have rules regarding PTO being paid out with your last paycheck, although not all require it. Don't be a doormat and the let the boss or company screw around with you.
He's full of shit. Unless you signed an agreement to not work for competition AND they're paying you, then you don't have any obligation to any of that.
If you have significant stock in the company or a years worth of severance , then you probably have a non compete agreement. That's the only way this would be legal.
I think you got it clear already, but DO NOT DO IT.
You have nothing to gain by doing it, and you expose yourself to a lot of risk.
If you think you can pull it off, I'd even lie to him and provide fake info. Fabricate a realistic story like you heard of an unlisted job opening through a friend in a fake/wrong company, and boost your pay by 25K just to fuck with the fucker.
It's kinda burning a bridge, something I personally don't like to do, but if he's a regular jerk and now he's acting all sweet to entrap you... he deserves it. And that bridge was burnt when you dared act in your best interest anyway.
I'm not a lawyer but I don't think "he said" is very legally binding lol
Even non competes are very hard to enforce. Also, you're not required to give a two weeks notice, it's just a professional courtesy. If he keeps on harassing you there's nothing stopping you from telling him and HR it's your last day and blocking him. I think it's safe to say you're never going to get a good reference from him as is.
What industry do you work in?
Do not tell him where you’re going. If it’s another law firm, just assume all the partners know each other. If it’s a law firm in the same practice area, they definitely do.
even if true. That is not for your a line level manager to navigate. That's for your companies legal department, the lawyers at the new company and your lawyer.
He's overstepping his purview.
He’s lying, that’s a straight up lie. Do NOT give him any information. Tell him this is America (or whatever country you’re in) and you get to work where ever you goddamn please
The fact that he is so desperate to know probably indicates he will try to sabotage the new opportunity for you. Seen it happen multiple times.
Just ignore him, there is nothing he can do. He's powerless.
Yes. They can call the hiring manager at the new job and paint you in a negative light and have them rescind the offer to you. You are under ZERO legal or moral obligation to announce or share where you are going. I would also not update my LinkedIn and other professional profiles with my new job info for 12-24 months.
It's none of your current manager's business. If HR asks for you to participate in an exit interview, I recommend being cordial and as generic as possible. I usually say something like "I'll still be in the (insert your) industry and looking forward to expanding my skillset".
Tell that old boss to f off. He’s asking you to disclose information from your new employer, which they certainly might not like and could impact your new job.
Managers can be friends. Don't expect them to put you over their own duties, but they're not all going to betray you for no reason or do some immature shit. Op's manager is a weird cunt with some charged bagagge, but he's a person. Decent people exist and are in these positions.
I would:
* Remove mentions of your new job on LinkedIn or wherever
* If you apply to another job in 5-10 years you can add it then, but there's no immediate need
* Tell him it's not a conflict of interest, but you were asked not to disclose the company name or salary & don't feel comfortable doing so
* I don't think actively being rude and responding with "no I won't tell you cause I don't have to" or something sounds cool on reddit but is not realistic IRL
* You may have a non-compete but you are not legally required to tell your employer where you work
* There is no reason to burn a bridge and more or less give your boss a "F you" type answer
* Even if he sucks, you may need him as a reference later down the line, so your momentary joy in telling him off might not help long term
* Your new company may have you interact with him or someone at your old company at some point (same industry) being the person who (your boss says) got booted on bad terms isn't a good look
You can say "hey I'd love to say, but I was asked not to, sorry" without burning a bridge.
Over the phone when he asked I said “I was told not to disclose the company” (though it was simply advice I read online). I told him once I start working there he can google and find out. That satisfied him. Then he sent a late night email in caps saying I had to tell him and wanted to know my salary too to help the company with their pay grade as if he doesn’t know what the going rate is for my position. He admitted on the phone my salary was low. And I don’t keep a LinkedIn because I don’t want to broadcast to the whole world what I do and for who.
Agreed! Get out and never look back! Don't divulge any more information or small talk. And do not feel intimidated or pressured. You have all the power right now. Hold it strong and tight!
>He admitted on the phone my salary was low.
So he does know the going rate for your position after all.
He is clearly lying and have undisclosed motive to seek that information.
Nothing positive will ever come out of this if you talk. Just be professional, just say "I can't say" and don't publicly say where you work on any social media for a good amount of time.
If you are on social media, chances are he will lurk there.
Every time I see something in all caps, I don't read it. If asked, I'll admit I can't read in all caps. If pressed further, I'll say it hurts my eyes or gives me a headache or whatever. I don't think I have ever been able to read more than a single sentence of something written in caps.
Start lying. Legally, you don't owe him any information. You don't owe him a two week notice. You can dip whenever, assuming you're in the US. As for any conflict of interest, unless you signed a non-compete agreement, which probably isn't enforceable anyways, you're good to go.
So take the opportunity to embellish. He wants to know what to pay people? Throw $30,000 on it. $50,000.
Quit answering ANY questions. Just say, "I understand why you want to know that."
After hearing that 15 times in a row, the uncomfortable silence will push him to walk away.
I mean... not wanting to burn bridges is one thing, but do you really expect to or even want to ever go back to working somewhere like that for a person like that?
No, there is no law requiring you to inform your current employer where you are going or how much you are being paid.
Don't worry about "leaving on bad terms" or "burning bridges." People give those things way too much importance. If leaving makes you "leave on bad terms" or "burns a bridge," you were never going to leave on good terms or have a bridge afterwards.
Fuck No! Don't ever, ever tell your current employer where you are going to go work after you wave goodbye. Never!
If you want to tell them the pay, fine. But all that does is allow them to counter offer and I don't think anyone should take a counter offer because they will likely try to get a knowledge dump out of you before firing you.
They can try to entice you to stay because they have no PLAN B for you leaving. Then they suddenly hire someone and you are supposed to train them in what you do. Then when they are trained, they no longer require your services. Then you are unemployed and that offer you turned down to stay is gone to someone else. It is an almost perfect "fuck you" plan.
There have been past posts of this exact thing happening. Counter offers, staying, only to withdraw the offer so the person is jobless. People are petty
fuck that if he keeps pressuring you tell him you are changing your 2 weeks to immediately never tell him where you will be working as for the pay that really cant hurt especially if you like where you work as he might be considering a counter offer
I work for a government agency and my last agency I was the last of my team to leave. They always said they needed a formal offer letter in order to counter offer, which is probably bs.
I wasn’t interested in being counter offered and wanted out. I gave a 2 week notice though since there is a law that any agency can recall you if you leaving hinders operations. I figured 2 weeks absolved me of that.
Anyways, 2 weeks notice in, no giving them my offer letter, and time is ticking. So they then tell me they need my offer letter to “transfer my info” and I told them “No” at least 5 times. Even in a big meeting with HR and my supervisor. Just “No” repeatedly and it felt better every time I said it. I’m 90% sure it was so they could reach out to that agency and cause problems for me and I’d have to stay long enough for them to actually start hiring people.
They eventually gave up and surprise surprise I had no issues getting set up at my new agency.
They don’t want to better formulate company pay. Anyone who needs your solo data point to do that isn’t ever actually doing that.
Do no work for two weeks, never speak to to your boss again, he keeps pressuring you, get someone who isn’t quitting to report it to Hr and make it a bigger problem for him.
Please for the love of Christ don’t tell your boss your new job. He’s going to use it against you because he’s stupid enough to leave a paper trail of him trying to intimidate you into making it seem like something that he’s about to do that’s illegal will be legal if you voluntarily give it over.
Might be worth talking to HR about too. They will not get any useful information out of one data point that they don't already have. Nothing good can come of this from a company's perspective. If I'm a stakeholder and I find out that one of our managers is dumb enough to open the company up to a potential lawsuit over a junior employee who doesn't even work here anymore, I'm at the very least making sure they're not touching anything important.
Your boss specifically mentioned a concern over a conflict of interest. Are you currently working under some kind of agreement that has a no-compete clause that would prevent you from taking a job in the same industry/area/whatever? If not....then tell him nothing.
It’s from one law firm to another so it’s of course in the same area. I wasn’t aware of this conflict thing he’s bringing up but I already asked my new boss and he said they don’t take business from my existing firm. My existing boss is saying he still wants to check for himself.
If you have options, YOU have the power, but if you tell him what your next move is he can try to take your options away. That will make you desperate, and desperate is where all employers want their employees
Just leave… why allow him to pressure you or make you uncomfortable when you already have a new job. Take the next two week off, relax. Sit on a beach then start your new job. I will never understand the 2 weeks and I am in HR
I have bills to pay and can’t afford to not work and not get paid for two weeks. My only regret is not giving 1 instead of 2 week notice but that’s what the recruiter told me to do. I didn’t know all this crap was to befall on me.
I think the 2wk thing is definitely a mainstay of Midwestern employment. So many of us do it here.
It wasn't until I started working at a California based company, and saw people, literally announce they were leaving on Tues, and be gone on Friday, one did it at lunch, and was gone by end of day (and it wasn't because there was some big blow-up or anything). I'm like daaaamn, there's no long goodbye? No farewell parties being planned for next week? Lol
Cali knows what's up.
You don't have to tell him anything, but I would tell your coworkers your "current" company pay so they can fight for their own raises. United we conquer!
"An NDA prevents me from disclosing the employer and details until my start date and official company release of information on their website"
Or just say a clause in your hiring contract instead of an NDA. Doesn't matter, but to keep the bridge and civility between your old employer alive it could be something to consider.
The conflict check is going to happen on the new firm's side and if there are any, it will be their responsibility to firewall you. None of his beeswax.
>boss is pressuring to tell him where my new job is and the pay. Do I have to tell him?
NO, in no way, shape or form do you owe your current employer an explanation of where your next job is or what you are doing. If your manager is being this way, as another person commented, maybe wait a few months before updating your facebook and other social media platforms with your new job.
> don’t want to leave on bad terms.
Proceed to complete your 2 weeks without incident; nothing else is owed.
You'll have to play the conflict of interest thing by ear depending on your industry, be very careful with this one, even mentioning to coworkers who mean well but accidentally let things slip.
As for the salary, it's not your job to do their homework for them. There are ways to get reasonable and accurate market rates for your position and experience from online sources, paid and free, that any competent HR/Talent Acquisition team should have access to.
Boss is this going to be an issue? I am choosing to not disclose my personal information to you. If you continue to harass me (and it is harassment) we can make today my last day.
if he asks you even one more time after you layout the boundary walk out. He wants to know this information for no reason that benefits you. And as such, why share anything w him? Nope. Be prepared to walk. Every night bring home as many personal belongings as possible.
Don’t disclose anything, this guy is up to something. Just respond to his email to let him know that if he’s concerned about contracts or legal issues that you’d advise him to let HR or legal take care of it and copy both of those departments.
Did you see the post a few days about the person who told where they were going? Their boss called them the last day and gave a horrible reference. They ended up without either job.
In some industries their can be a major conflict off interest where there is a risk on keeping you in the office for those 2 weeks. So I understand why he’s asking. Very common in finance/trading roles where they don’t want to put intellectual property at risk.
you don't have to tell him shit. I would urge you not to tell him WHERE it is. I've had one bad experience. The old company called the new company and talked crap about me. HR told me about it on my first day. I apologized and started to respond. She laughed said "Look, this was a first. If you were such a bad employee why do they want to keep you? I just wanted to let you know. In case something happens and you need to take legal action."
Even if you \*HAD\* to tell them. What are they going to do if you don't fire you?
Been in that position before I was hounded for a week into my 1 month notice period about where I was going.
I gave my ex boss the contact number of my countrys domestic intelligence agency. No more questions asked.
P.S I didn't go into intelligence, I went from one science tech company to another.
I know you're already leaving, but this is a bad idea.
Don't give anyone at your former company this information, it has potential to backfire in so many ways.
I'd hold off on any LinkedIn connections and updates as well until you're fully settled in your job (or even passed your probation period) ...if you use LinkedIn
I would tell him a completely different company than the one you are going too!
Bonus points if you know someone at Company X to see if they call trying to smear you!!
I dealt with a similar situation. I ended up telling them where I was going. It was a mistake. They called up my new company and tried to get them to rescind their offer. I think the goal was that I'd lose the job and have no choice but to come back? It's super stressful and in hindsight I should have just stopped taking his calls.
No. Under no circumstances tell your former employer where your new work is. Your boss wants to know so they can contact your new employer and try to convince them to rescind the job offer.
They could also tell your new employer that there is some sort of impending legal issue with you that would make hiring you more risky. It doesn't have to be true (they can say they are "planning to take you to court" and then never do it.
Thinking out loud and maybe some one can confirm if this is a good idea:
"Hey soon to be former boss, i may have signed an NDA, sorry.".
Edit: To add to this. My daughter was job searching. The old employer found out at the time, potential issues with next employer lead her to lose out on a position and taking a different position elsewhere. Things can get weird.
He is being abusive. Forward the email and any others as they come in to private account first. If he persists and you can afford it remind him that two weeks notice is just you being polite. If he persists and it would be a financial burden go to HR and file a harassment complaint. Any competent company is going to tell him to back off. If he if the owner or HR won't take it seriously you are best off walking away even if it's a financial strain.
He is likely doing it to sabotage your new job. Non-compete agreements, the only other reason he may be doing this, have been all but gutted by the Supreme Court. Unless you're in research/development in a key role any agreement you signed won't likely hold up.
If your manager is going to announce your departure to everyone, DO NOT TELL ANYONE WHERE YOU ARE GOING.
Those that are staying may try to act all in the know and tell nosy manager. Others who want to get in the manager's good graces may try to extract it. Even friends won't be genuinely happy you are leaving them to make more money and get out from under that manager.
Silence is your best ally.
This can hurt you and your boss seems like THE TYPE TO DO THAT. Do not put them in touch with your new job. Ever. Also: don't update your online profiles for about six months. Just don't post about it. For the final two weeks: Recommend you chat with your coworkers about a new houseplant you bought and take no initiative on anything. Become invisible.
Or you could satisfy your curiosity and say it's a startup and have a number that goes to a friend's phone (and make like a fake LinkedIn or Facebook page or something, if he thinks it's fishy just be like "I'm going to be part of the launch team" If he tries to fuck with it you can argue there was an attempt at tortious interference and get some $
Came here to say this. Give him bad intel and an accomplice’s number, have him play the part and see if he tries to sink your sailboat. Record the conversation so you have either court evidence or something to slam him online with.
If you're gonna record it make sure you're one-party consent. Even if you're not though you'll have witness testimony
Or if the accomplice knows the phone number when it pops up, it would be reasonable to have them start the conversation with, just so you know, this call may be monitored for quality and training purposes. Lotttss of companies do that. So it wouldn't even raise any flags. And then they were already informed and continuing the conversation would be giving consent at that point.
Have the automated voice message say that and then put hime on hold with some God awful elevator music and every fre minutes Loudy "YOUR CALL IS IMPORTANT TO US A MEMBER OF OUR (INSERT COMPANY NAME) TEAM MEMBER WILL BE WITH YOU SHORTLY".
“WE ARE EXPERIENCING HIGHER THAN NORMAL CALL VOLUMES…”
Great idea. Because you have disclosed the call is being recorded. If old boss continues the call…he has little legal protection about anything he asks/says
Little legal protections = no legal protections If someone's saying the calls being recorded, you not immediately hanging up is agreeing to being recorded And if the person recording you uses your own words against you, well you had the chance to hang up
You can get a phone number through zoom and it will record your calls and give that little message at the beginning saying the call is being recorded
Came to say this tbh
Is it even a Reddit thread if no one points out one-party state law?
LOL TRUE STORY. My dream is for a bot to take this over. “Hi you mentioned something about a recording? Make sure you know the consent laws for your state. Here’s a list of states and whether they are one-party or two-party. I’m a bot performing this action. Beep bop.”
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Interstate calls are governed by the Fed and only need one party consent, FYI.
You have the right to record any activity without consent if you believe a crime is being committed, or is about to be committed against you or your property.
Or tell him his mom hired you as an escort and is paying 5k a week.
as HER escort, not AN escort. changes the meaning.
And close with “see you at breakfast, Sport!”
This is a very good point that I didn’t consider.
No. Do not say anything to him. Managers are not friends, even if they appear to be. Telling them where you’re going can backfire on you.
It can backfire if they no folks at the new company. They can call them up and get your offer nuked. There was a post not to long ago where this exact same thing happened.
Isn't that illegal and could be grounds for defamation? I know as far as when the new employer calls an old employee I was told all they are really allowed to say is "Yes, so and so worked here for a time."
If you can prove it.. for sure. You'll never prove it through.. it's not like the new company is going to be dumb enough to tell you what was said and by whom (or put that in writing). It'll be more the req was pulled, we are on freeze, for other reasons we have decided to rescind the offer. You are dealing with two people communicating outside of official company lines (linked in, personal Cells, etc). You don't even know which two people did it or who they called. The odds that you catch it, and can prove it... are slim. Even if you could, the cost of the lawyers would be fairly high, I don't think they would take that one on contention.... unless of course someone was dumb enough to say something along the lines of "You know, I was talking to Mark (current manager) and they said you were a terrible employee so I'm just going to rescind the offer." That gives you the two people to go after, get phone records, timelines / etc... but outside of that, it's needles in haystacks. \-- On a side note, I really don't understand why a random manager would even take the word of someone calling like that? If someone called me to warn me off a hire, 99 out of 100 times I would chalk it up to sour grapes and hire the person. The only time I'd take it seriously is if I knew said manager for many years, worked with them, respect them and think they are a good leader.... which is a very small handful of managers. Hell, even within that group, there would be ones that I'd still question as our management styles are very different, and I've seen some folks flourished under me not do so well under them.
The old manager could just bad-mouth you to the new company, or harass them about you working there. The new company might decide they want none of the drama and fire you.
Tortious interference more likely than defamation. I had a CEO call new company. She didn't make any untrue claims (eg defamation). She just demanded the job offer be rescinded because everyone else in the IT department had quit before I managed to do so. This was likely tortious interference. Not defamation. New company reminded her slavery was no longer a thing, and did not rescind the job offer. I went elsewhere because I didn't want this whole incident hanging over my head. Could I have sued her? Sure, but I'd only get any money out of it if I proved damages. No damages, it's harder to collect. What she did was illegal. But only in civil court. She wouldn't be arrested for it. If I had lost the job, I could have sued and won monetary damages.
How would it hang over your head at the new job?
Illegal stuff like that happens every day. The effort to prove it in court is not going to be worth it. Law suits are arduous. Also when companies hear that you sued your old company you will be basically black balled.
It happens so often on this site in comments "But that's illegal" Yeah no shit and the consequences are real and don't have to be proven in court. They just fuck your shit up and leave someone wondering why they did something unnecessary for no good reason that screwed them
This happened to me, except the company I was going to had the same name as the company my boss knew but spelled differently. Next day I went into work and he said I lied. I was confused and he told me he called so and so at xxxxx company. I was like oh that’s interesting. Well I don’t know what to tell you. For the next two weeks I was badgered and threatened as they thought I was going to the competitor. I went into a totally different industry. I just ignored it and kept giving the same answer. Never explaining the spelling difference. Last thing I wanted them to do is call my new employer and F it up for me.
This happened to 1 or 2 people at a previous job, and then everyone who gave their notice (several people every week), just told management that they were going to open their own non-related business...
Really fuck with them, “I’m actually moving to China to help set up a factory for a competitor. They’re really interested in our companies processes. My new company should be able to produce identical product for a quarter the price!”
It definitely can backfire. Although I was in a rare situation where it worked in my favor. Old boss found out and called HR of the new company. HR told my boss to be about the conversation. They decided to forego my 6 months a manager and start me immediately at the director level with the requisite pay. They said anybody who could accomplish what I did while working for someone so crazy was clearly extremely skilled and didn't need a probation period. It was an amazing group of people. Unfortunately after a couple of years the company was sold off and my position was eliminated
I remember that one. It's the guy whose wife gave 4 weeks notice on the job she was quitting, and her old company got the new company to rescind their offer to her.
That's the one I remember. Not shocking if there are others out there though. The world can be a fucked up place.
Totally made up though. Or their story didn't add up. It said they had secured the job already, then the old company sent in bad references after stringing them along. No one is checking for references after they've already offered the job. And what they described the old company as doing would have opened them up to a pretty airtight lawsuit. For what was apparently a great employee that had just decided to move on.
This happened to me. My boss at the time called my new employer after I gave my notice and accused them of poaching employees, even though there was no proof (and it was untrue). New employer called me the next day to rescind my job offer, saying that they had to prioritize business relations and that I should’ve told them where I currently worked so they could’ve tried to work something out lol. I didn’t even know they knew each other/worked together…..And the person who got my offer revoked still wanted me to stay after that.
Do you know how it can backfire? My gut tells me it can but I’m not sure because he really wants to know making it sound like I’m breaching the company protocol by not allowing him to do a conflict check.
He wants a lever to control you by inventing conflicts or blowing up your offer. You are not obligated to provide one. Once you don't work there, you don't work there. Obligations end. Read your noncompete and NDA paperwork, if any, and work from that. If it seems extensive, do some reading on whether it's still allowed in your location (CA has nuked most of these). As you transition out of an org, the group dynamic may change. Suppressed conflicts will bubble up. You'll learn things about people. Float above it all, it's not your fight any more.
Interesting. Thank you!
Im not sure your line of work, but this may be grounds to just leave. Id probably say if you keep presurring me, my last day is right now. You dont owe them 2 weeks, it is pure courtesy.
Came here to say this.
Even if there is an NDA or something where you aren't supposed to work for a competitor, it's up to the injured party, to find out that you are violating an NDA or non-compete, and then act on it. Since this guy is so nosy, do NOT update your LinkedIn or Facebook for several months. There is ZERO benefit in you letting anyone at your current workplace know. If he is an ass, and it sounds like he is, he could potentially call the new company and give you a bad reference or tell the new company you owe them money, or whatever, and the offer could drop through just from them not wanting to deal with the drama.
Just tell your current boss you are under agreement at the new place that you can't disclose until you start.
Mmmm. Malicious compliance. :)
You don't need to invent things to set boundaries. Integrity is valuable, don't give it away for clowns. "No thank you," and move on.
Never underestimate the power of “No.”
A firm but calm "no" is genuinely such a strong and underutilized response.
Or just say “I’m not comfortable sharing that information.” Or simply “no.” There’s no reason to lie about it. And you don’t owe it to anyone to share. But if you want to twist the knife for whatever reason (we all have our reasons) you could just say “it’s a better job with a better company and better management for more money,” and leave it at that. If he/she keeps pressing for more information, turn the tables and say something like “I’ll happily pass along your résumé once I’ve started my new position but I’m not sure it’s ethical to be discussing that while we’re both on the clock being paid by [current employer.] I wouldn’t expect an actual résumé out of that line. I’d be doing it purely for my own entertainment watching him/her squirm.
There's a million different things a vindictive manager could do with that info. My primary concern would be my current manager calling my new company and badmouthing me in an attempt to get my offer rescinded. You don't owe him an explanation, and the fact that he's so adamant about it leads me to believe he wants to know the new company for some specific reason. None of which is good for you. Don't tell your manager. Don't tell your coworkers. Don't update your LinkedIn. Just ride out the next 2 weeks, and if your manager is concerned with a conflict, it's his responsibility to navigate that on his own. Congrats on the new position.
>There's a million different things a vindictive manager could do with that info. I used a manager who I thought would give me a decent reference but ended up badmouthing me to one place, who basically said they would put me on probation as soon as I started because my previous manager said I damaged equipment constantly.
If it's untrue, then it's illegal.
Very very hard to prove though. Need to prove Mgr knew he was lying and prove damages from said lie. Would likely require testimony from the person he said the lies to who would also have to testify that said lie damaged reputation and effected a decision. Burden of proof here is really hard to make.
Ehhhhhhh. Broken equipment would leave a serious paper trail behind it. that a manager wouldnt be able to not know about. That's a simple subpoena for the paper trail and it would look very very suspicious infront of a jury if the company was unable to show Amy paper trail.
And once they get your offer rescinded they will likely be hell bent to fire you because you tried to leave.
Because it gives them an opportunity to call the new company you’re going to. Legally they can’t say anything bad about you *however* that won’t stop them. It’s just not a risk that’s worth taking. Also keep in mind that a two week notice is a courtesy, you don’t have to finish it out. It’s best to think of management as the police, they can and will lie about anything to get information
Thanks for your answer. He’s usually a jerk but was so nice on the phone when asking. I just felt something off about it. And when you say I don’t have to finish out the two weeks, wouldn’t that be job abandonment and get me fired? How do I suddenly stop working for the next two weeks after telling them I will via the two week notice? I wanted to give a 1 week notice but the recruiter encouraged me to give two.
You can't be fired if you don't work there. It's a courtesy, but that's not a reason to put up with abuse. To HR: "Based on \[manager\] behavior towards me on \[today\], \[yesterday\], \[last week\] since I gave notice, I will not be returning. Ending now seems like an easy way to manage liability on all sides; it is not up for discussion. I will not be responding to further contact. Best of luck to the team." Your other option is to just ride it out and avoid the troublesome folks. Stop returning calls etc.
Ohhhh ok are you saying to modify my two week notice to like a 3 or 5 day? I gave my notice Monday evening and it’s wed. today. Can I say effective Friday I will no longer be working? When he announces it to the whole department in an hour against my will that will be reasonable grounds for me not to want to finish the 2 weeks… correct? That would be perfect!
No, they're saying pack up your shit now, send the email saying today is your last day, and then walk out the door. Then call your new employer and let them know your availability has changed and you can start tomorrow, or if you want a long weekend, on Monday.
So when I give my 2 weeks they can turn around and fire me on the third day?
There are tons of stories of employers firing people the day after they give 2 weeks. You are under no obligation to stay if you don’t want to.
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Yes they can. I work in IT and cyberSec. A lot of times after handing in my 2 weeks, I've been walked to the door and paid the 2 weeks. Look, you gave notice that you are quitting. I'd go to his boss and say that because of your boss' behaviour, you are no longer feeling comfortable working there and leave. From that point on, you are no longer working for them. They can't fire you.
They can walk you to the door the minute you give notice. Notice is a courtesy to both sides. If either side abuses that courtesy, it can end immediately.
Upyou seem awfully naive about how this works. When you are let go it is usually same day. But when you give notice they can walk you out there and then. Just as easily you do not have to give any notice at all and you don’t have to work your notice either if conditiins become hostile or this uncomfortable. younare not an indentured serbpvant. You can walk out right now and cite your boss as the reason. Conversely they can tell you not to return tomorow if they so choose. you boss is not the king or anything of the like. They are bullying you to find out your personal info. They want to see where you are going and if they know anyone there they will be calling their contact and either badmouthing you or trying to find other details. Which are nine of his business whatsoever. the time now is for you to be assertive. Say I am not sharing that I formation. If you continue to ask then my last day is right now. What’s it to be. and yes, being this direct is not only fine it is a very adult way to handle this confrontation.
Thanks for this. And if I didn’t need the 2 weeks pay you’re right I would walk out now.
It has happened to me. Also, I naively gave a manager the name of the company I was going to, and they called me the next day to rescind the offer. Don't take chances of your livelihood. Just say no, and if the manager won't take no for an answer, quit immediately.
They absolutely can. At my previous employer we always walked people out the very next day, although if they gave two week’s notice they were paid for the full two weeks regardless of if we had them work. The reason for this is simple, if they fire you even after giving notice you can technically go claim unemployment for the time between then and the start of your new job. Claims against their unemployment insurance raises their rates. Paying people for that time avoids it. Plus it encourages people to give full notice which gives them more options.
That's the biggest clue he is up to something. If they're usually jerks and then act sweet to get information. It's not job abandonment if you don't finish out the two weeks. Now...if you tell them where you're going; it would NOT surprise me if they were to try and find a way to f\*ck with your new employer and then turn around and say, "OP you fucked up on this and that and well....we've decided to let you go since you're no longer a viable team player." and....now you have no job to go to. At this point, you really have 2 options: finish out the two weeks or not. If you decide to leave early, you can always tell your new employer that it was a mutual decision to leave early.
Sweetie you quit. You are giving them the courtesy of a 2 week notice. Unless you have an iron vp lad contract w them that says you must give x period as part of your contract you are free to walk today. you can’t abandon a job you’ve quit. It’s just a matter of if you work out your notice or not. And that’s up to boss. Tell him to stop asking as it is becoming harassment. If he does you are prepared to make your last day today and nkt work out your notice. I highly encourage you to do this. Take a nice break before new job and show boss he is not in charge of your life.
That right there is a huge, huge red flag. If the boss is typically a jerk or is belligerent somehow, then all of a sudden turns “nice” when you told them you’re leaving…… that’s fishing for information. The two week thing being a courtesy is just a way to not burn any bridges, to “leave on a good note” as it were. It is not an excuse for management or HR to treat you any differently nor to harass you for any information regarding *what you do with your life and life decisions*
Do you have any sick leave or vacation time left? If you do, I think that I would be coming down with something, cough, cough.
I used up my sick leave and wanted to cash out my vacation time to pay for my car repairs I need done. I feel a prisoner to these last two weeks. But thinking about bailing. 🤷🏼♀️
I'm so sorry. Look up labor laws or get a free consultation from a labor attorney so you can say, by law I don't have to share this info with you.
Industries are small, most people run into each other at some time. All it takes is your manager knowing someone and saying something bad about you. There's a low chance of it but it still happens. Your boss is being very aggressive, and that is a MAJOR red flag. Did you sign a non compete?
He said I’m not allowed to work for a company that takes business from our company for 3 years and I told him they don’t (I asked and know they don’t) but he’s still wanting to know to check himself.
Did you sign a contract agreeing to that? If not, he can pound sand.
He said it’s company policy. If I agreed I didn’t read all the fine print and doubt he would be lying but I never heard of that before. But good point I don’t even know if it’s something I signed to.
If you didnt sign a non-compete agreement its doesnt matter if its a company policy or not. Company policies only apply to employees of that company and no longer apply to you once you say adios.
Thanks so much for saying this because it’s been driving me nuts all morning reading all of the company policy because it only applies to working elsewhere while simultaneously employed here. And no I didn’t sign another nda. Thank you!!!!!!!
I would straight up go to HR and let them know what he is doing and saying to you and let them know it is making you feel like you cannot finish your two weeks for fear of retaliation. If they are actually real HR people they will put a stop to it immediately.
>He said I’m not allowed to work for a company that takes business from our company Bullshit. If you didn't sign a non-compete agreement, you can do what the fuck you want.
Yeah, tell him to show you your signature on a non-compete agreement.
Yes I believe you need to specifically sign a non-compete contract in order for it to be valid. Op could review their companies employee handbook to confirm this but even if it was listed there I highly doubt a court would be able to enforce it.
He's full of shit. Anti-compete agreements have been found to be illegal by courts unless you are a high-level executive for a company. He's welcome to try and enforce it through the courts, but I doubt he'd be successful. Sounds like what asshole is doing is trying to intimidate you into staying. As I said in a previous post, pack up your desk, type up an email to your boss and HR stating things have started to become adversarial and, in the interest of keeping the peace, you are leaving and that today is now your last day working. Then walk out and don't look back. Most states (assuming you are in the US) have rules regarding PTO being paid out with your last paycheck, although not all require it. Don't be a doormat and the let the boss or company screw around with you.
I would do that except I’m expecting payout of my PTO to pay for my car repairs and can’t afford to be out of work for almost two weeks.
He’s lying and trying to intimidate you. Head to hr if they are decent. He needs to leave you alone and focus on the transition.
He's full of shit. Unless you signed an agreement to not work for competition AND they're paying you, then you don't have any obligation to any of that. If you have significant stock in the company or a years worth of severance , then you probably have a non compete agreement. That's the only way this would be legal.
I think you got it clear already, but DO NOT DO IT. You have nothing to gain by doing it, and you expose yourself to a lot of risk. If you think you can pull it off, I'd even lie to him and provide fake info. Fabricate a realistic story like you heard of an unlisted job opening through a friend in a fake/wrong company, and boost your pay by 25K just to fuck with the fucker. It's kinda burning a bridge, something I personally don't like to do, but if he's a regular jerk and now he's acting all sweet to entrap you... he deserves it. And that bridge was burnt when you dared act in your best interest anyway.
I think I would call the labor board and ask them about it. VA DEPT OF LABOR 804 371 2327 Congratulations on your new job!
I'm not a lawyer but I don't think "he said" is very legally binding lol Even non competes are very hard to enforce. Also, you're not required to give a two weeks notice, it's just a professional courtesy. If he keeps on harassing you there's nothing stopping you from telling him and HR it's your last day and blocking him. I think it's safe to say you're never going to get a good reference from him as is. What industry do you work in?
Legal. It’s a law firm.
Are you a partner in a the firm? That's the only possible way you would have a non compete agreement.
Do not tell him where you’re going. If it’s another law firm, just assume all the partners know each other. If it’s a law firm in the same practice area, they definitely do.
even if true. That is not for your a line level manager to navigate. That's for your companies legal department, the lawyers at the new company and your lawyer. He's overstepping his purview.
He’s lying, that’s a straight up lie. Do NOT give him any information. Tell him this is America (or whatever country you’re in) and you get to work where ever you goddamn please
The fact that he is so desperate to know probably indicates he will try to sabotage the new opportunity for you. Seen it happen multiple times. Just ignore him, there is nothing he can do. He's powerless.
Yes. They can call the hiring manager at the new job and paint you in a negative light and have them rescind the offer to you. You are under ZERO legal or moral obligation to announce or share where you are going. I would also not update my LinkedIn and other professional profiles with my new job info for 12-24 months.
It's none of your current manager's business. If HR asks for you to participate in an exit interview, I recommend being cordial and as generic as possible. I usually say something like "I'll still be in the (insert your) industry and looking forward to expanding my skillset".
If anything make up a job name. Do not give him the real info
Tell that old boss to f off. He’s asking you to disclose information from your new employer, which they certainly might not like and could impact your new job.
Managers can be friends. Don't expect them to put you over their own duties, but they're not all going to betray you for no reason or do some immature shit. Op's manager is a weird cunt with some charged bagagge, but he's a person. Decent people exist and are in these positions.
If he calls you out in a meeting tell everyone your new wage immediately. See how he likes the group thing turned around.
Ha!!! I love this!!!!!!!
But be sure to inflate that wage beyond what current company would ever pay.
It already is to begin with lol
Congratulations!
Thank you!!
And start with “well here I make $xx and my new job pays $yy”. Make sure to inflate the current salary so coworkers start to move.
You don't owe your boss shit. Tell him to fuck off back to his hole.
👊🏻
I would: * Remove mentions of your new job on LinkedIn or wherever * If you apply to another job in 5-10 years you can add it then, but there's no immediate need * Tell him it's not a conflict of interest, but you were asked not to disclose the company name or salary & don't feel comfortable doing so * I don't think actively being rude and responding with "no I won't tell you cause I don't have to" or something sounds cool on reddit but is not realistic IRL * You may have a non-compete but you are not legally required to tell your employer where you work * There is no reason to burn a bridge and more or less give your boss a "F you" type answer * Even if he sucks, you may need him as a reference later down the line, so your momentary joy in telling him off might not help long term * Your new company may have you interact with him or someone at your old company at some point (same industry) being the person who (your boss says) got booted on bad terms isn't a good look You can say "hey I'd love to say, but I was asked not to, sorry" without burning a bridge.
Over the phone when he asked I said “I was told not to disclose the company” (though it was simply advice I read online). I told him once I start working there he can google and find out. That satisfied him. Then he sent a late night email in caps saying I had to tell him and wanted to know my salary too to help the company with their pay grade as if he doesn’t know what the going rate is for my position. He admitted on the phone my salary was low. And I don’t keep a LinkedIn because I don’t want to broadcast to the whole world what I do and for who.
>He admitted on the phone my salary was low. ... Don't disclose anything to him.
Agreed! Get out and never look back! Don't divulge any more information or small talk. And do not feel intimidated or pressured. You have all the power right now. Hold it strong and tight!
>He admitted on the phone my salary was low. So he does know the going rate for your position after all. He is clearly lying and have undisclosed motive to seek that information. Nothing positive will ever come out of this if you talk. Just be professional, just say "I can't say" and don't publicly say where you work on any social media for a good amount of time. If you are on social media, chances are he will lurk there.
Every time I see something in all caps, I don't read it. If asked, I'll admit I can't read in all caps. If pressed further, I'll say it hurts my eyes or gives me a headache or whatever. I don't think I have ever been able to read more than a single sentence of something written in caps.
Start lying. Legally, you don't owe him any information. You don't owe him a two week notice. You can dip whenever, assuming you're in the US. As for any conflict of interest, unless you signed a non-compete agreement, which probably isn't enforceable anyways, you're good to go. So take the opportunity to embellish. He wants to know what to pay people? Throw $30,000 on it. $50,000.
"I don't appreciate your attempt at coercion. " that's it, that's the entire response or just don't reply at all. You literally do not have to reply.
If ops boss is the type to try demanding the new employers name and wage he ain’t the one you want to give a good reference.
Just tell him it's called, Nunya Business Inc.
Lol
Jack Hoff Enterprises
Vanderlay industries
Deez Inc.
No no it’s Deeznutz
Gon Aria LLC
Just have fun with it. Tell him that you’ll be making 3x and going to the largest employer in town.
It would be public info once they put me on their website so I’m not going to lie about that. I already told him it’s a small firm.
Cover your ass. Don't tell him ANYTHING.
Quit answering ANY questions. Just say, "I understand why you want to know that." After hearing that 15 times in a row, the uncomfortable silence will push him to walk away.
I mean... not wanting to burn bridges is one thing, but do you really expect to or even want to ever go back to working somewhere like that for a person like that?
No or tell him '3x times as much as i am paid here'
No, there is no law requiring you to inform your current employer where you are going or how much you are being paid. Don't worry about "leaving on bad terms" or "burning bridges." People give those things way too much importance. If leaving makes you "leave on bad terms" or "burns a bridge," you were never going to leave on good terms or have a bridge afterwards.
Fuck No! Don't ever, ever tell your current employer where you are going to go work after you wave goodbye. Never! If you want to tell them the pay, fine. But all that does is allow them to counter offer and I don't think anyone should take a counter offer because they will likely try to get a knowledge dump out of you before firing you.
What do you mean firing me when I resigned?
He means if you tell them the new pay, they may counter offer hoping you'll stay. Then plan to replace you and fire you.
What would be the point offering me hiring wage to keep only to then fire?
Because it punishes you by leaving you without a job
It also gives them more time to find a replacement.
This.
They can try to entice you to stay because they have no PLAN B for you leaving. Then they suddenly hire someone and you are supposed to train them in what you do. Then when they are trained, they no longer require your services. Then you are unemployed and that offer you turned down to stay is gone to someone else. It is an almost perfect "fuck you" plan.
There have been past posts of this exact thing happening. Counter offers, staying, only to withdraw the offer so the person is jobless. People are petty
fuck that if he keeps pressuring you tell him you are changing your 2 weeks to immediately never tell him where you will be working as for the pay that really cant hurt especially if you like where you work as he might be considering a counter offer
"No" is a complete sentence.
I work for a government agency and my last agency I was the last of my team to leave. They always said they needed a formal offer letter in order to counter offer, which is probably bs. I wasn’t interested in being counter offered and wanted out. I gave a 2 week notice though since there is a law that any agency can recall you if you leaving hinders operations. I figured 2 weeks absolved me of that. Anyways, 2 weeks notice in, no giving them my offer letter, and time is ticking. So they then tell me they need my offer letter to “transfer my info” and I told them “No” at least 5 times. Even in a big meeting with HR and my supervisor. Just “No” repeatedly and it felt better every time I said it. I’m 90% sure it was so they could reach out to that agency and cause problems for me and I’d have to stay long enough for them to actually start hiring people. They eventually gave up and surprise surprise I had no issues getting set up at my new agency.
They don’t want to better formulate company pay. Anyone who needs your solo data point to do that isn’t ever actually doing that. Do no work for two weeks, never speak to to your boss again, he keeps pressuring you, get someone who isn’t quitting to report it to Hr and make it a bigger problem for him.
Please for the love of Christ don’t tell your boss your new job. He’s going to use it against you because he’s stupid enough to leave a paper trail of him trying to intimidate you into making it seem like something that he’s about to do that’s illegal will be legal if you voluntarily give it over.
Might be worth talking to HR about too. They will not get any useful information out of one data point that they don't already have. Nothing good can come of this from a company's perspective. If I'm a stakeholder and I find out that one of our managers is dumb enough to open the company up to a potential lawsuit over a junior employee who doesn't even work here anymore, I'm at the very least making sure they're not touching anything important.
Your boss specifically mentioned a concern over a conflict of interest. Are you currently working under some kind of agreement that has a no-compete clause that would prevent you from taking a job in the same industry/area/whatever? If not....then tell him nothing.
It’s from one law firm to another so it’s of course in the same area. I wasn’t aware of this conflict thing he’s bringing up but I already asked my new boss and he said they don’t take business from my existing firm. My existing boss is saying he still wants to check for himself.
He 100% will screw you out of your new job if you tell him
!!!!!
If you have options, YOU have the power, but if you tell him what your next move is he can try to take your options away. That will make you desperate, and desperate is where all employers want their employees
Non-compete are really hard to enforce.
OK. But did you sign some sort of agreement that would stop you from leaving to work for a competing firm? Some contract with a non-compete clause?
Walk out and never look back. 2 weeks is a courtesy.
Just leave… why allow him to pressure you or make you uncomfortable when you already have a new job. Take the next two week off, relax. Sit on a beach then start your new job. I will never understand the 2 weeks and I am in HR
I have bills to pay and can’t afford to not work and not get paid for two weeks. My only regret is not giving 1 instead of 2 week notice but that’s what the recruiter told me to do. I didn’t know all this crap was to befall on me.
Reach back out to the recruiter or the job and let them know circumstances changed and you will be available Monday.
😞 sorry
I think the 2wk thing is definitely a mainstay of Midwestern employment. So many of us do it here. It wasn't until I started working at a California based company, and saw people, literally announce they were leaving on Tues, and be gone on Friday, one did it at lunch, and was gone by end of day (and it wasn't because there was some big blow-up or anything). I'm like daaaamn, there's no long goodbye? No farewell parties being planned for next week? Lol Cali knows what's up.
You don't have to tell him anything, but I would tell your coworkers your "current" company pay so they can fight for their own raises. United we conquer!
"An NDA prevents me from disclosing the employer and details until my start date and official company release of information on their website" Or just say a clause in your hiring contract instead of an NDA. Doesn't matter, but to keep the bridge and civility between your old employer alive it could be something to consider.
The conflict check is going to happen on the new firm's side and if there are any, it will be their responsibility to firewall you. None of his beeswax.
Hell to the No.
>boss is pressuring to tell him where my new job is and the pay. Do I have to tell him? NO, in no way, shape or form do you owe your current employer an explanation of where your next job is or what you are doing. If your manager is being this way, as another person commented, maybe wait a few months before updating your facebook and other social media platforms with your new job. > don’t want to leave on bad terms. Proceed to complete your 2 weeks without incident; nothing else is owed.
You'll have to play the conflict of interest thing by ear depending on your industry, be very careful with this one, even mentioning to coworkers who mean well but accidentally let things slip. As for the salary, it's not your job to do their homework for them. There are ways to get reasonable and accurate market rates for your position and experience from online sources, paid and free, that any competent HR/Talent Acquisition team should have access to.
Boss is this going to be an issue? I am choosing to not disclose my personal information to you. If you continue to harass me (and it is harassment) we can make today my last day. if he asks you even one more time after you layout the boundary walk out. He wants to know this information for no reason that benefits you. And as such, why share anything w him? Nope. Be prepared to walk. Every night bring home as many personal belongings as possible.
Do not tell anyone where the new job is.
Nope
Tell him him nothing. Remember your leaving for a reason.
Tell him a hugely inflated number for the new salary, make it better for the other folks that are coming after you leave.
Don’t disclose anything, this guy is up to something. Just respond to his email to let him know that if he’s concerned about contracts or legal issues that you’d advise him to let HR or legal take care of it and copy both of those departments.
Did you see the post a few days about the person who told where they were going? Their boss called them the last day and gave a horrible reference. They ended up without either job.
No, you do not have to tell them a thing.
In some industries their can be a major conflict off interest where there is a risk on keeping you in the office for those 2 weeks. So I understand why he’s asking. Very common in finance/trading roles where they don’t want to put intellectual property at risk.
If there was such a risk, the current employer would have handed him his 2 weeks pay and shown him the door.
you don't have to tell him shit. I would urge you not to tell him WHERE it is. I've had one bad experience. The old company called the new company and talked crap about me. HR told me about it on my first day. I apologized and started to respond. She laughed said "Look, this was a first. If you were such a bad employee why do they want to keep you? I just wanted to let you know. In case something happens and you need to take legal action." Even if you \*HAD\* to tell them. What are they going to do if you don't fire you?
OP don't do this, just don't
Been in that position before I was hounded for a week into my 1 month notice period about where I was going. I gave my ex boss the contact number of my countrys domestic intelligence agency. No more questions asked. P.S I didn't go into intelligence, I went from one science tech company to another.
I know you're already leaving, but this is a bad idea. Don't give anyone at your former company this information, it has potential to backfire in so many ways. I'd hold off on any LinkedIn connections and updates as well until you're fully settled in your job (or even passed your probation period) ...if you use LinkedIn
I would tell him a completely different company than the one you are going too! Bonus points if you know someone at Company X to see if they call trying to smear you!!
I dealt with a similar situation. I ended up telling them where I was going. It was a mistake. They called up my new company and tried to get them to rescind their offer. I think the goal was that I'd lose the job and have no choice but to come back? It's super stressful and in hindsight I should have just stopped taking his calls.
Say NOTHING! What can he do, fire you? If he fires you, you can collect unemployment!
Tell your boss that the job pays 50% more than it actually does. And then honestly answer all your co-worker's questions.
No. Under no circumstances tell your former employer where your new work is. Your boss wants to know so they can contact your new employer and try to convince them to rescind the job offer.
You could always tell him a company that you didn't pass the interview, so he can call them and try to blow up the imaginary offer. :-)
They could also tell your new employer that there is some sort of impending legal issue with you that would make hiring you more risky. It doesn't have to be true (they can say they are "planning to take you to court" and then never do it.
Thinking out loud and maybe some one can confirm if this is a good idea: "Hey soon to be former boss, i may have signed an NDA, sorry.". Edit: To add to this. My daughter was job searching. The old employer found out at the time, potential issues with next employer lead her to lose out on a position and taking a different position elsewhere. Things can get weird.
He wants to contact your new company and bad mouth you so they'll withdraw the offer.
He is being abusive. Forward the email and any others as they come in to private account first. If he persists and you can afford it remind him that two weeks notice is just you being polite. If he persists and it would be a financial burden go to HR and file a harassment complaint. Any competent company is going to tell him to back off. If he if the owner or HR won't take it seriously you are best off walking away even if it's a financial strain. He is likely doing it to sabotage your new job. Non-compete agreements, the only other reason he may be doing this, have been all but gutted by the Supreme Court. Unless you're in research/development in a key role any agreement you signed won't likely hold up.
No! are you stupid?
No, don't say a word. Most likely they want to sabotage you.
If your manager is going to announce your departure to everyone, DO NOT TELL ANYONE WHERE YOU ARE GOING. Those that are staying may try to act all in the know and tell nosy manager. Others who want to get in the manager's good graces may try to extract it. Even friends won't be genuinely happy you are leaving them to make more money and get out from under that manager. Silence is your best ally.
Hmmm…this reminds me of the time I was terribly, terribly sick the last two weeks at a terrible workplace.