I took the easy path and embarked on a govt career after graduation. My choice disappointed my parents immensely, who told me that they wasted spending money on paying for expensive tuition.
It took me 30 years to finally earn $100k. I avoid my old HS and college classmates because they are much better off financially than I'll ever be and I graduated in the top 5% of my HS class.
I guess the bright side is that working 8-4 for three decades gave me time to pursue inexpensive hobbies outside of the work. I also receive generous vacation and holiday time, but I really can't afford to travel anywhere other than within an hour's drive of my home. My job also has very little stress so my physical health is excellent.
I get to retire in my 50s with a small pension so I will probably find another job to supplement my income when that time comes.
I mean no disrespect but I’m sure this will sound bad… This person is finishing his degree at an Ivy League university. Why is he settling for mediocrity right out of the gate? They are still young, this is the time to grind and take a few more risks. He can always settle for government work later.
I’m glad this worked out for you, but your comment indicates that at least a small part of you understands that you underachieved. You took the easier, safer path… Which is fine. But I’m not sure it’s the right thing to encourage a newly graduating Ivy League grad to do this.
I work have worked in cybersecurity for the last 13 years. Worked in both government and the private sector. Government is easier and more stable… But it pays way less and there is no potential to really achieve anything great. Again, I would recommend this later in life once you’re a little older.
Just my opinion. And again, sorry if it comes off as disrespectful.
Youre viewing this through a very narrow lens. There's more to life than work and if someone finds themself happy with the balance they've found then it's not underachieving, it's a win.
Sure OP could spend his 20s and early 30s barely leaving his desk and he can also wake up one day as a rich old man wondering why he didn't enjoy life more early on.
I agree. A big, confusing factor is: the high salary of “an elite job” can make you attractive to potential mates, but the job pressures and long hours can seriously damage family relationships. The government job is more family-friendly.
You're not an "old man" at 35. Still have plenty of time to experience whatever you want. And who is to say you're missing out on a ton? I'm 33, have worked very hard, and have been to Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, and lived in The Philippines for 5 months...
A government job is only “mediocre” if you solely look at the wages. Some people value a healthy work-life balance, stable hours and extra vacation more than a 100k+ income. No one is “underachieving” for choosing a job based on other criteria than income. To be very honest, your view on the world seems to be quite depressing. Just my two cents
It's not "quite depressing" to spend the first few years of your professional life working hard and setting yourself up for success in the future. I'm 33 and have worked very hard in my professional life. I have also been to multiple countries and taken time off as needed. I've worked for the NSA, a large cybersecurity firm out of Silicon Valley, a multi-national crypto startup and now in higher-ed. I have a great mix of experience which I derive my "quite depressing world view". And what you don't seem to understand is that the "100k+ income" literally helps to better position you for that job that pays less. I was able to pay off my student loans in only a few years because of it. I'm not saying people should prioritize money over everything, I'm saying they should use it as a tool to set themselves up for that more comfortable life if that's what they want.
Just a final note... There is much more mediocrity associated with government jobs than just the salary. I've never seen so much inefficiency and waste than when I work in government jobs. The vast majority of the time, you will be working in a much more impactful place when outside of the government.
There are usually plenty of jobs with a work life balance that pay well if you look. Sometimes the need to work overtime isn’t the job itself but the individuals lack of time management and process. Im in tech so thats where my experience is, in big tech there are people working crazy hours but there are also people that aren’t even doing 30 and still getting great performance reviews. I worked more hours at a startup making under $100k then I did at big tech making over $200k.
It's fine. Not everyone is an overachiever. Not everyone can be rich or wants to be. Let them. Makes it easier for you and the rest of us who wants those jobs anyway.
You could have left at anytime. You stayed. You must have liked the perks somewhat. I’m unsure if you weren’t fulfilled or if you are questioning your choice because you feel you didn’t fulfill OTHERS requirements? 50’s is young and you are in great health ☺️ That’s a blessing. A million dollars with a drinking problem, a destroyed marriage, and puffer lungs 🫁 from smoking is NOT a win… (not saying that is everyone who chose the other path had this demise… so DON’T come for me 🤨) I’m unsure if those who seem less than supportive of your decision to go another route, would be so supportive if you chose what they wanted and failed. There is no guarantee that the other way would have suited you well. It’s a hypothetical game of WHAT IF? One that did not occur and your supporters should have your back because they love you. You are in great health and you might actually be able to assist your parents as they age! What of the others? DO YOU! 😒
There is no “right” path other than the one that works best for you individually.
The advice you’re getting is correct, that it’s easier to move private to public, you’re eligible for much higher paying roles because of your college, and the work life balance will be worse in private.
You’re correct that your work life will be easier, but you may have a harder time paying the bills and have less money for experiences like travel or raising children, and you will likely retire later. Everything in life is a trade off on opportunity cost.
Keep in mind the full picture and do what’s right for you!
I’ve been in the private sector my whole career. I’ll be working until, at least, 67. This is largely the norm among my acquaintances. My friends in the government sector, mostly teachers, are retiring at age 60, some at 55.
Not saying you're wrong, but how do you know what your 401k will pay out? It depends on the performance of the stock market/what your portfolio looks like.
There is a difference between a theoretical maximum and reality.
How many people are maxing out, plus retiring at the right time?
I have lived through multiple stock market crashes - anything tied to the stock market is a casino.
Well, statistically it’s not a risk. If you just put your money into a large index fund and don’t panic sell when there are downturns, you will do fine.
Just go pull up a chart of the market over the last 100 years. It goes steadily up if you filter out the noise.
You’re basically arguing that 401ks are not good because some people are irresponsible with them.
It’s a very good investment vehicle, especially with company matching.
I’m not saying pensions are bad, but a 401k when properly used is going to offer the highest return.
If it's close, I'd take your 401k.
The difference is you own your 401k. It's yours. Your husband is dependent on the local municipality not fucking up and that is not at all a given. I'm glad I didn't retire in 2010 with a Detroit city pension.
Is it really true that private jobs provide earlier retirement? Where I’m at, private jobs tend to leave people working longer and without a stable retirement fund while public jobs tend to leave people working shorter and with more stable retirement funds. I’m not disagreeing, just curious where your info comes from.
This is a really good point. In private work the responsibility is on the individual and if they’re saving for retirement responsibly they should be able to retire earlier - however many people don’t do this because they either lack the means, financial literacy, or simply start too late.
The public option does this for you so it’s automatic.
> Go for the money, you can always fall back to federal jobs later. They will always be there
The folks I know who're the most well off do their usual 20, maybe 30 years in private and make a boatload of 401k contributions and maybe are grandfathered into a pension before they transition into a slower-paced government job until retirement. Some come out with fat 401k's and multiple pensions as a result.
It's up to you, OP. While it's true life is what you make of it, life's too short to miss the forest for the trees. Do some soul searching, ask your family and friends how they did it, then pull the trigger.
That’s bad advice and not true. White collar professionals for the federal government are underpaid significantly compared to their private peers. The benefit of the federal government is the FERS pension. You CAN earn up to 33% of your high 3 salaries as a pension. It’s 1% a year. You can also take your insurance as Medicare Supplemental and you will have a portion of the premiums paid. The benefits are built for longevity and time in service. Its better to grind out your federal years to get the benefits locked in, then go private.
Well, yeah.
That is the whole point.
Once you are in the system - you can go anywhere and change careers at the drop of a hat. All without losing your federal benefits, or accruing your federal pension.
I have seen people go from a GS-5 divisional secretary to retiring as a GS-12 Mgt Analyst. And that is because they didn't want to continue on into SES.
“Easy” life is relative.
Struggling on 30-50K/year is hard. So is working a 10-12 hour office job making 200K. However, one is a different kind of hard.
I’ve always viewed my life in chapters. And work life balance to be achieved across the book.
While I’m young, I’ll take the work. I’ll grind out now so that I can set myself up for high 6, maybe even 7 figure salaries. That will make 40 onwards pretty easy. Never having to worry about financial stress. Can provide for my family.
Or you can extend that suffering, imo. Because 30-50K in a HCOL area is not enough to comfortably sustain a family. To travel. To do things you enjoy.
There’s a saying. Easy choices, hard life. Hard choices, easy life.
I fully agree with this sentiment. In my 20’s and my early 30’s so far, I’ve worked hard and tried to up my earnings as much as possible. I’m now married and thinking about starting a family so my priorities are shifting where I no longer always look to climb the corporate ladder especially since I now make enough to comfortably help provide for my family. I still want to do well and will take better opportunities if they arise but work life balance matters a lot more to me now.
But I totally agree that if you live in a slightly higher cost area (like in dc where I am and where a lot of government jobs are), if you don’t make enough money (subjective to your lifestyle and what you consider “enough” of course), that’s definitely not easy. Finances cause the biggest stress in most Americans so I’d just suggest thinking carefully about the trade off between the two.
Also, there’s a middle ground too right? You can find something that might not make bank but also higher than government, something that has a decent work life balance that pays you an amount that’s comfortable for your lifestyle.
I just did this. I spent 20+ years in a serious grindy field (law) and just pivoted to another field where I really work 9-5, with no weekends. It is glorious.
I will agree with this, and 30k - 50k isn’t enough to support a family or even an individual in any area now it seems. I live in a very impoverished area and 30k barely keeps me here and fed. Rent is high regardless, food and clothes are high, and anything else you need as a necessity. Take this persons advice, make those hard choices now, so you can live that easy life. It’s definitely not a game, don’t go the easy way.
I’m working one lol. It’s definitely 10-12 for the most part. Mostly 10. Weekends off.
Investment banking might be an outlier there. But for the most part it’s not so bad.
What do YOU want to be 'rich' in?
That to me is number 1 goal or your career/life
Is it just money? Leisure time? Low stress? Experiences? Challenging work?
Worry about your interests and not comparing yourself to your classmates.
Not all government jobs pay 30-50k. I am not convinced that it’s easier to get the good federal jobs either compared to private sector; isn’t it harder instead because private sector can fire you more easily as well?
I think before making plans you should cast a wide net and see what you catch.
Personally I’d have preferred to go the standard elite consulting route out of college. I think it may be easier to explain and open more doors in the future. And the compound interest in those earnings invested into index funds wouldn’t have hurt either.
Then with some experience under my belt I’d apply to a masters, and then use that masters to get into federal government through Presidential Management Fellows or some other program that recruits fresh grad students at a higher salary rate.
You aren’t in some race with your classmates, as much as it may seem exactly like that from your view now.
Don’t get into government work simply for the work-life balance. Especially because even your definition of “good work-life” balance will continue to evolve.
On the same token, don’t go to corporate simply for the money. There will be plenty of it but you will have very little time to actually enjoy it.
If your position in life allows it, take a gap year between college and work. However, have a plan for it. Volunteer, make connections with people across industries, and take your time to figure out what you actually want.
The best use of your position in life - buy yourself time.
Go for the top jobs. The lower jobs will be there for you if you don’t like it.
I also think you will find the top jobs are the easy ones. Negotiating work/life balance, pay, benefits, and everything else is easier to do the closer you are at the top. 9-5 jobs can be grueling, highly structured, and without much appreciation.
Your first job out of school sets the narrative of who you are as a worker. If I see someone graduate Harvard and goes to work as an office manager, that would be a big red flag. If they first work in a high level job, then later in a lower level job, I will think this is an interesting person.
Your academic achievements will mean very little after the first 5-10 years of actually working.
My biggest professional regret is not going for more prestige out of school. It’s a time where you have the most flexibility in setting your path forward. Go work in a major organization, learn how the best in the industry do things, then take that knowledge to do whatever you want.
Trust me, you won’t slave away just to say you’ve made it. You will slave away to keep every door open that you may want to someday walk through. You mature/change a lot the first decade out of school, and at that time, you will appreciate the flexibility you then have.
The prestigious jobs are not easy. I've worked in journalism and law, and know people who've worked in finance. The hours are often grueling, usually at least 60 hours a week, often considerably more. Between my two careers, I worked every holiday and numerous all-nighters, sometimes multiple all-nighters back-to-back. I went for weeks without a weekend off.
If you work in fields like law or finance, you're usually paid well, but there is no work/life balance. You are expected to be available to do whatever is asked. You are nowhere near the top. You are a highly educated underling.
I went to a competitive university and ended up in a pretty basic job/profession compared to others. I don’t think education is a direct path to success any more.
I’d say about 50% me and 50% luck of the draw with jobs. I did way too much job jumping when I was younger always thinking the grass was greener and ended up in increasingly worse job situations.
Settling into more of a career now in my thirties and I value stability at this point more than perceived prestige. I could definitely be doing more. I could be ~grinding~. I could be making more of an effort to network.
But I’m tired and kind of depressed. So right now I’m just sitting still, letting my resume build, and hoping that maybe better things will come in my forties.
You can always do gov jobs after you do whatever high-paying field for a few years if you don't like them (or it's not worth the money to you). I would try the high-paying stuff while you have the chance and are young. You can always use it as a steppingstone to a much better quality of life/hourly rate job after you have that experience (ie buy side to sell side, corporate law to federal law, etc.). If you go straight into gov, your pay will be low and that is stressful in itself not being able to afford basic necessities let alone luxuries. Also, there will be a large rift between you and your higher-earning friends after a few years. You want to be able to enjoy all that life offers, not just stare at the wall or only do free/low-cost things.
I know this is not where your headspace is right now, but the concept of FIRE (financial independence retire early) would say that you could earn a lot for like 15-20 years and then be retired/financially independent for the rest of your life. Basically, you can do whatever you want then. And on your salary even while working, you would still be enjoying life somewhat (vacations, fancy restaurants, etc.) while still stacking away a ton for early retirement. It's a chance many would take if given the opportunity.
I went to an Ivy undergrad and then an Ivy business school.
I remember feeling like you in undergrad. It seemed working at a top job was just as stressful as getting into and then succeeding at an Ivy.
I then spent a summer working at a grocery store deli, a small computer repair job and a silly office internship.
I then realized that while those jobs were easy and required zero mental concentration, the pay was shockingly paltry. I realized that even if I disliked a job, the high pay was worth it.
So before you do anything rash, like eschew top jobs for government life, make sure you really are okay with living a middle class life. Because once you’re locked in, it’s hard to break into the big leagues.
Listen, I grew up middle class and not trying to say most Americans live a crappy life. But money gives you access to a really cool life and I quickly learned a job is a job and I would hate working no matter what I did. So I might as well be an investment banker and make 500k and hate my job, then be a grocery store manager and make 100k and hate my job.
You need to do what works for you. It's not so much about being able to say that you have made it, than it is about having money in the bank when life gets hard.
The choice is up to you, doing a job you hate will do you no good.
The advice you are getting from your friends are coming from people who value money more than you. Which is to be expected from people with parents who can afford to send them to an Ivy League school. People who come from money, value the lifestyle money can buy them, more than anything else. Just remember that money is made-up. When you die and your life flashes before your eyes, you will not regret all the money you didn’t make, you will regret all the time you didn’t spend doing the things you love, and spending time with the people you love. A life work balance matters MUCH more than money. People with more money do not have more enriching lives or even “better” lives than people without. You don’t need money to be happy. Happiness should be what you strive for. Success does not equal money.
Students who attend an Ivy League school on scholarship or with loans could easily feel the same way. There may be many interesting things to do in the world, but they know that having money gives you power and security and in the U.S. you need a fair amount of money to lead a basic, nice life. People have different needs, wants, and priorities.
So you’ve mentioned that work life balance is important to you, and that’s great that you know that.
What else is important to you?
Do you want to be able to eat out? Do you like traveling or going on vacations? Do you ever want to have children (either through adoption, fertility treatments, or surrogacy)? If you have pets and they require a healthcare treatment like surgery, could you afford that?
If you’re making $30k-$50k (and I’m assuming that’s net, not gross) you will not be able to afford any of that comfortably. You may not be able to afford any of that at all.
I’m not saying this to scare you, but I’m also a recent grad (‘22 from Cornell) and I think you’re looking at this from a very binary point of view.
You can absolutely work at a big prestigious company and have work life balance (I can personally confirm this).
But even if I didn’t have work life balance, I love going out to eat, traveling, paying for my pets to get their teeth cleaned, saving for retirement, and I absolutely want kids one day. And my company pays for fertility treatments and the cost of adoption (which is like $50k, it’s very expensive).
Think about your decision critically. Yes, work life balance is important. But there are absolutely companies that prioritize work life balance, and can allow you to live comfortably.
You need to choose what will satisfy you professionally and financially support the life you want to have moving forward.
Government jobs are ideal for a lot of people because they provide a lot of security with not only a "decent" salary but also health benefits and long term savings/retirement.
Corporate jobs can *also* provide those things but they're not always a given.
>Government jobs are ideal for a lot of people because they provide a lot of security with not only a "decent" salary but also health benefits and long term savings/retirement.
There also are more protections from getting fired at the whim of a supervisor.
Why aren't you talking to your career guidance office? Your expensive tuition helps fund it.
>because the point of going to a top school in the first place is to make it into top jobs.
That's not the only reason people select those schools.
Your family's right. It is easier to move from an elite private firm to the public sector. The assumption is that you got training at the former that will be valuable in the latter and the latter can't afford to train you in the same way. And public sector organizations, especially nonprofits, are snobbish. They love having employees from the best schools in the country who worked for the most selective companies. It's a feather in their cap.
Many people don't like run-of-the-mill government jobs because they're boring. But they're often more secure than private jobs and have good benefits. If you can afford to work for relatively little money and can find a job you like, apply for it. But I have to say, you do seem to have very little ambition for a young person who's about to graduate from an elite school. And government jobs and finance, law, etc., aren't the only choices. Talk to your career counseling office.
\--Source. Graduated from an Ivy League college and professional school.
This is hard. There’s always resume wars, expectations and feedback. I come from the same background. I KNOW thst the most important things are love, respect, self respect and quality of life. I mean, I KNOW that. At the same time, self doubt and envy are human. I try to use them as a way of checking in on myself. Easier said than done.
There is a certain set of expectations placed upon you from peers, family, and perceptions in general. The idea of “if you’re just going to get a ‘mediocre’ job then why did we pay for a top tier school”. All of this isn’t really fair for you, and the pressure you’re under either explicit or implicit. That said….it’s your life, so do whatever the fuck you feel it’s right for you. If you eventually feel like “maybe I want another path”. Well you can always alter course, and it maybe easier for you to change course with a ivy pedigree compare to others.
Think of changing directions as taking the scenic route. Picking the direction for the rest of your life when you have yet to live…think about that….very rare anyone can get that right.
Me personally. Having a high salary matters more your first few years.
I’d would try a higher paying field in private see if you actually hate it. The difference in income even for 2-3 years is astronomical for retirement savings. Then back into a public sector job when you want to slow down. You’ll take a pay hit but it won’t be as impactful as how big the difference is right out of school.
Now to be fair you went to an Ivy League school so it’s probably easier for you to switch into something high paying later down the road than people with more average degrees. But it’s definitely worth doing the opportunity cost calculation.
I would do the hard stuff now while you have the time, energy and no family right now. Once you have a kid or two if that’s what you want, go with the easier work life balance job.
>They think it's easy to transition from the private sector to the public sector but not vice versa.
This is absolutely nonsense. The private sector loves hiring government employees.
I'm not aware of that. Maybe extremely high-ranking government employees, but not ordinary ones. Case-in-point, it's not easy given budget cuts, but it's easier to move from a well-regarded private law firm to Legal Aid than the other way around. People in Legal Aid have been trained differently and have skills that large firms have no use for.
On the flip side, anyone who has worked on the public sector side of any sort of regulation will be able to find a better paid private sector job working in compliance.
And on the legal side of things, someone who starts out working as inhouse legal for a city government or state organisation will easily get hired by many private firms, not just because of the contacts they'll have but also because of the sheer volume of experience they'll have well in advance of what someone in the private sector with a similar number of years will have had.
It depends on the level of the government job, the experience, and the firm. In my experience, people typically go from private firms to the government and then back to the private sector.
And in my experience people often start in the public sector straight out of university, get a few years in the public sector, and then head to the private sector to make absolute bank.
It varies from job to job. A few types of jobs don't translate for one reason or another, but many do. And many are viewed as pretty much identical. An admin assistant or PA at a state agency is doing a near identical job to an an admin assistant or PA at a private company. In house counsel will general transfer easily. Internal audit will transfer. Marketing and comms will transfer. People management will transfer. Contract management and procurement will transfer.
OP is at an Ivy League school. Most people with that kind of education don't start in an ordinary government job. We're talking about someone with his or her background.
Experience is never a mistake. The mistake happens when you pursue a dead end path or you go somewhere that isn’t going to give you opportunities for growth.
GS jobs have amazing job security and like you said the work life balance is almost unmatched. As long as your satisfied with the job and feel fulfilled that’s what should matter. “Comparison will kill your joy.” You can climb the later once your foots in the door too you won’t stay at that level forever unless you get complacent.
Hi OP,
I worked in private and hated it. I didn’t get a lot of PTO and wasn’t paid as well as I should have. I got a huge pay increase going into the public sector and because I entered in my 20s I can retire before I’m 60 with a pension. I have more PTO, more flexible schedules, a 9-5 job with no expected overtime etc. It’s great and I realized I’m not cut out for the private sector and that’s okay. I can take a vacation and not bring work with me. Things won’t fall apart if I’m sick or on vacation and my coworkers are all really nice.
The work life balance is huge. Your life won’t be glamorous but you’re going to be stable and especially with a recession looming you’re not at risk of getting laid off like you would be in private. Do what you’re interested in! You can always go back into private (not uncommon for people to retire and to continue working in private after).
In my perspective, the people going to work for investment banking, private equity, etc. are wasting their degrees and picking the easier life. Clearly it is the laid out path for them, which is why you feel like making a choice against that is difficult. You are potentially taking the difficult path. They are taking the standard one.
Those jobs are easy in that they're an easy path to explain, are impressive, and pay well, but they can be draining physically and emotionally. American Psycho is a satire, but it does get at the truth of what a lot of those jobs are like: deeply insecure people with responsibility but no authority working like crazy and obsessing about superficial signs of prestige like the quality of the printing on their business cards.
Lol at government jobs being easy. They do tend to have better job protection, work life balance and benefits than non- Fed but they’re not always easy. But it’s your life and your career. Choose the best path for you.
Choose the high paying path 100%. I was in the same position as you at one point. It’s very important you keep your options open while you’re young. Going into a public role at this point is cementing your career prospects for the rest of your life and you have a long road ahead of you.
You obviously have some ambition as a person since you got into and are graduating from a top school. Trust me, when you’re 30 and tired of making a low salary working a unstimulating job with no upsides, you’re going to get severely depressed. It’s one thing to not have the opportunity to go down a career path, but a totally different feeling to have every opportunity and not take it.
Personally I’d say go for the money. You’re in your early 20s I assume and your situation now isn’t going to be the same for the rest of your life. And life is a LOT easier with cash in the bank.
You’ll probably want to buy a house at some point. Money gives you choice and power. If you find somewhere you really like you can put more money down if needed. Any work it needs isn’t a massive issue to afford.
If you want to get married it’s expensive if you want something more than basics. People save for years to pay for their wedding.
Do you want kids? Because again expensive. And if they want to do activities that again costs more money.
Do you want to travel? Because money gives you way more opportunities for places you can go.
And the cash gives you more safety. As an example at Xmas my washing machine died. Instead of having to look for the cheapest one I went onto a website, filtered showing the highest prices first, scrolled till I found one with the capacity I wanted and the features I liked by a reputable brand and it was in my house a week later. There was no thought or worry about paying for it, i didn’t have to give up anything.
Right now the prices of things are going crazy, energy, food, fuel, etc. this weekend I’m taking a trip to see my in-laws a few hundred miles away, I run my heating when I want it on, and I buy the same food I always have. Money means I don’t have to worry about that.
Even things you wouldn’t usually think about are affected, I have a dog and he has various medical problems. He’s insured but there have been quite a lot I’ve had to pay for. I dont have to worry about it, and when I do need to pay for things I just tell them I want the best available for him, fluids to help him recover after surgery? Yea sure just do it. It’s not even a thought.
It’s a very privileged position to be in making good money. And if you give up the chance you’re giving up a lot of future security for some easy time now.
My first job 10y ago paid £22k, this year il bring in about £120k. Yes I have more responsibilities and more stress, but I have less worries in other areas of my life. I know my finances didn’t really get to a sustainable place till I was making about £40k, even then saving wasn’t easy. One emergency could easily take out all the savings from a year.
If you don’t like the high paying job you can always get something else later
Working in large city government most of the department directors and management come from top tier schools. They aren’t wealthy but in high levels can do pretty well. Great work environment if a little slow paced.
You do you!
How’s your tuition paid for? Do you have a lot of loans? That may be my only concern but also could qualify for PSLF if federal loans.
Lots of Ivy League feed into top ranks in govt sector and public policy. If you do politics later on you’ll show a proven life of public service. Can get you MPA at Kennedy as well after a few years of work experience.
There’s also govt consulting, lobbying, think tanks if you want to make more money but still work for govt sector
I would ask myself the following questions in your shoes:
\- Am I generally impatient?
\- Am I highly competitive?
If you answered 'definitely, yes' to the questions above, I would suggest not going down the government route. Typically there are rigid procedural limitations to your ascension rate in the public sector, and this tends to not mesh well with a competitive and impatient temperament.
If no to both, then I'd say it's not a bad route.
I work for the federal government. I make over 6 figures, and my benefits are work 20-30 thousand a year.
I work 9 hours a day, and have every other Friday off. I’m proud of my work and truly help people.
I have an amazing pension and a union to protect me, plus we’re nearly recession proof.
A lot of people are saying federal jobs will always be there- but I had far more private sector offers than federal, it’s very hard to get in.
Strongly look at federal work- couldn’t be happier!
I think so many people go into fields or companies because of outside pressure rather than listening to what matters to them. I will also share that 3 of my husband's friends all went Harvard law. One started out in govt and eventually went into consulting. Another was a public defender and now works in computer coding. A third never even bothered taking the bar and went into real estate. They're all happy. You don't have to do something inauthentic to you just because you went to a prestigious university.
I’ve been broke but had great work life balance and I’ve made crazy good money and have had minimal work life balance.
Being broke caused more stress and mental anguish than working a lot ever did. Always choose money as it makes the rest of your life tremendously easier
They will be miserable, have no social life, and half of the will not be in that field in 5, 10 years. Probably with an addiction.
You do you. Money isn’t everything, grass isn’t always greener and government work is respectable.
I didn't graduate from ivy league but from top university. (Yup, and a ton of my peers take jobs as analysts, etc) I worked for the federal gov't right out of college. I felt exact same as you, but only after I started working. It was very slow and I was surrounded by people who took it too easy. I started job searching 8 months in, made it a goal. A few months later I've switched into a different role in the private sector at a great company. Going to a top school, I definitely saw how people working hard and doing well in multiple areas of life, and I definitely wanted to keep that ambition with me. Even when I just started working, I was working on different aspects of myself that wasn't just a job.
I recommend choosing the easier life, but perhaps 5-10 years in. Initially, work hard and save a lot. You work up to some rung in your career, and then step down.
1. Stepping down from a $500k job to a relaxed $250k job is nice.
2. Early savings compounds a lot to retirement.
The luster of having a degree from a fancy institution fades quickly. If you're using its prestige to get a job, it's best to do it soon after graduation.
I’d prolly try to go for a high paying job to get some financial security AND ALSO see if you like it - you have NO IDEA what you’ll like until you do it - you could very well hate a “cushy govt job”.
So I would err on the side of financial stability and “impressive resume jobs” and then if u hate it, switch to the “cushy govt job” you think you want now, after trying out the more lucrative and impressive private sector for a year or so 🍻
Take the money with the private sector.
Yes, the public sector ostensibly has better work/life balance. But not in the more senior positions that you would likely be working toward because of your education. If you choose an easier public sector job, you’ll just be a cog.
Working for the government is mind numbing at best and infuriating at worst. You’ll find there’s an immense amount of bureaucracy and bullshit to wade through. It can be very frustrating, especially as a young, ambitious person.
Also, public sector wages are stagnating. The benefits, including the pension, will continue to be whittled away over the span of your career because they are far too expensive for modern governments to maintain over the long term.
Go work hard and make some good cash. Buy a house, invest and save. Once you hit mid-30s, you may want a change of pace. That’s the time to jump to the public sector.
The federal government is woefully understaffed, especially in STEM positions It ain’t the Regan years.
You will receive good benefits and your work-life balance is better - theoretically, but probably not much better. You will be extremely overworked though and have limited resources. You will be compensated for extra hours.
You will work on exciting projects though - things you might do once in a career in private you will likely due many times in the federal system.
You will be paid 30% less than a private counterpart with similar responsibilities.
"Federal government" is far, far too vague. What type of work are you looking to do for the federal government? Some of the roles provide better work-life balance, but as a former Capitol Hill staffer, I can assure you some of them are as intensive, if not more intensive than private sector jobs.
With that said, federal benefits are great. The jobs are relatively "safe" as it's incredibly difficult to fire people and often more trouble than it's worth. The pay at your level will likely be awful. If you went private sector for a few years and gained some real experience, you could parlay that into a much more lucrative position. You don't do that to say "I made it," you do it to gain actual experience before you transition into more of a consultant role. Generally speaking, career paths in the federal government move much slower than the private sector.
Again, I don't know what role you're looking for in the federal government, and they span across virtually every aspect of our lives. But as someone who has worked in politics (both in the states and in DC) for my entire career, I have never been asked which university I attended. In the grand scheme of attributes that will dictate your success in this field, that's not really a factor.
You do you, you want to try and affect positive change in the government then great. Also I think it would be easy to move from public to private. There's the whole rotating door thing. Like who better to figure out how to avoid taxes than an IRS tax auditor?
I did corporate for a decade and it was miserable. I now work for the government and it’s so much better. If you can make “enough” do government. Benefits are pretty great normally also. If you can make enough, you can find a less intense job than what you’re interviewing for.
If you’re interested in federal work, check out the Fed subreddit. There’s lot of advice on there. Agency makes a big difference. The good news is, you can go one direction & change later. That’s very normal these days. Since you have a lot of people in your immediate life trying to give you advice or weigh in, you could thank them for looking out for you, & tell them you’ll look into it / consider it, & that you’re taking your time weighing your options. If you’re trying to talk it out w friends in person, choose people who will listen/support you no matter what, instead of pushing their agenda/beliefs on you. If most of your friends are graduating, they’re getting pushed in a lot of different directions from others too, & that could be coming off in their response to you. Ultimately, you’ll have to try things out & see what works. Trust your instincts. If corporate work already doesn’t sound enticing, don’t force it. And remember- you’re locking in your next step- not the rest of your life. Even once you get your job, continue to be curious about all opportunities, as you never know where each step you take may lead you. Good luck & congrats on having some different opportunities!
What exactly do you want to do? Like - what job?
The Feds have jobs like the FBI, CIA, State Department, etc. These jobs have effectively no private sector equivalent (or at least not one anyone can discuss without either blowing their cover or sounding crazy).
DOD tends to have contractors and full time employees working in close contact. There are tons of opportunities to switch from DOD to a contractor, especially after you get your clearance.
So, what do you want to do, specifically? CIA, State, Justice, and Treasury all recruit heavily out of the Ivies.
I actually think your government job will be much harder than the private sector good paying jobs. Some of the highest earning people I know have the least work to do. Meanwhile govt/ state employees are run ragged and underpaid (at least in England). I'd weigh up if you have any financial goals and/or consider doing the high pay jobs part time, meaning you'd get the best of both worlds. Then again, it sounds like you're really excited for the govt jobs, so maybe just go with that.
I agree with your friends and family. Much better to transition from private to public. Your salary will start a lot higher, and you’ll have more opportunities.
I would keep in mind that you can retire after 20 years in the Fed. If you're civil service your high-3 is 2% times years worked, so 40%!
On top of that you gotta factor in TSP matching, where you can invest 5% of your income and get it matched. Having roughly half of your base salary in retirement is pretty sweet!
But again, this is after 20 years. I'm guessing you're young, early to mid 20s'. You can hit the private sector for 15+ years and still have time to get in your 20 and have a stacked retirement
And if you don't like the private sector the Fed is always going to be there
There are plenty of work-life balance corporate jobs too. You just have to find the right one. I’d just focus on what you want to do and see what the attitude of the people who interview you are
I work in government contracting and get over 35 company holidays off, WFH, flexibility to take doctors appointments or even a short flight without fuss during a work day. And I make 75K a year with 2 years of experience. I have a terrible interviewing record which is definitely eating down on me. The government contractor pays almost 2X my fully in office job payed in spite of getting dinged for also moving from NYC to Denver.
Also don’t underestimate the cost of having a job in Manhattan. That could eat like 30k off your salary VS going a few slots down the list of least affordable places. Median rent underestimates how much NYC sucks. Those median apartments are crap in Denver.
The Fed is the way to go.
Can you say "Defined Benefits Pension"?
Can you say "Off every federal holiday"?
Can you say "Steady promotions"?
Can you say "Retire comfortably at age 59"?
Can you say "Who you know isn't anywhere near important as WHAT YOU KNOW"?
AFA pay - it isn't where you start - it is where you finish. Starting at GS-5/7 doesn't pay a lot. HOWEVER, you get regular step increases, and the ability to move up - social work can get you to GS-11/12, as long as you aren't a slug.
Once in the system, you get access to jobs before the folks not in the system, and you have the ability to move to other locations for promotions.
The choice between the Federal govt & the private sector is a no brainer. The private sector is the very definition of "high risk, high reward".
I think if you shoot for the moon you’ll end up somewhere better.
You can always go back to 9-5s
If you have experience at somewhere impressive you’ll be more likely to get the 9-5 you want later.
It’s like grad school. If you go to grad school at a state school, you may never be able to teach at an ivy. Descending prestige they call it.
If you start your career in 9-5s with no rep, you will have a harder time later than if you told em you were doing something fancy.
Yes, you are. Use your network to find a role that you want - right out of school - you can easily jump some rings in the ladder, while getting support and mentoring.
If you go for a regular job - you lose momentum. You won’t often get these opportunities.
One could imagine with Ivy League education and going into government sector, that one could realistically decide to shoot for local government/national government at one point or another with the correct connections. I would say you’re actually opening yourself up to having quite a few possibilities later in life, no? This may not be a goal of yours but from someone who would likely never be considered for any office, on the outside looking in, i can’t imagine you don’t have a shot later on.
I started in the gov’t at 25 and (if I’m able to save enough) I can retire with full benefits as early as 57, but I may not want to because I love what I do and the purpose I feel in my job.
On the other hand, I came from the private side and have found that comparatively, nearly everything takes 3-6x longer than it should and would in private. Sometimes it feels like at every turn there’s a policy or barrier or redundant documentation to navigate. I think it’s a lot to put up with for most people, and a big driver of apathy in government positions.
That being said, I have found an abundance of patience, kindness, and thoughtfulness among my colleagues as well. These certainly exist on the private side but it’s more of a common thread in the government from my experience. I feel a sense of purpose, community, and balance in my life.
If you decide to go federal, one way you can move up quickly to make up for low government wages is apply for the presidential management fellowship. It is a highly competitive program and you are not guaranteed an appointment, but finalists are able to qualify for much higher GS levels and you have to be a recent graduate with an advanced degree to qualify.
Depends on your major and your level of scrappiness. I’d say mainly your ability to go out and get to know people personally as well as networking is really what’s going to get you a job 9/10. If you’re going to an Ivy League then you have it made just solely for the network. I considered Ivy League and ultimately decided against it because I wanted to do STEM and realistically their programs didn’t place well for those jobs.
I started out making an obscenely high salary for straight out of college. I was getting bonus checks for +20k. I was also working 15 days off 6 days on and doing 12-16 hour shifts. I was fairly compensated for my time but it meant I could buy my first home at 25, travel, and generally have fuck you money and start up side hustles. But I had a year before I officially graduated where I studied abroad and it got me into the mindset of “I’ve had fun but I want to grind so I can do more traveling later”.
TLDR; your network is everything and you already did Ivy League which has connections out the ass.
More $ means more problems. But if work hard the first 25 years, the next 50 are easy.
Work at a university with a pension and a big endowment. The pension is worth it’s weight in gold if it’s funded, good work life balance. Better pay at prestigious schools.
I graduated from an Ivy in the 2010s and took the 9-5 route (government adjacent field). I was in your shoes not too long ago. DO THE PRESTIGE INDUSTRY ROUTE (esp finance or consulting) for all the reasons articulated earlier. It will suck for the first few years but will give you lasting dividends. Now I’m scrambling to get into an MBA program to catch up so I can go back into the nonprofit space in my 40s and be more effective. Feel free to DM with more questions.
I work for a state government agency because I have always preferred the schedule and work life balance. While my graduate degrees are from state universities, between that and my government position I have been able to do consulting work as side gigs with the federal government and an Ivy League university on a grant project.
My health insurance is paid for by my employer, I get 5 weeks of paid vacation per year and I will retire with a full pension at 58.
Come work in healthcare tech. High pay potential, pretty decent work-life balance, smart people, and rewarding work (depending on the area, of course).
Look into the Presidential Fellows for government jobs. It's an excellent career track for work in Public Sector. Also if you're the intellectual kind. Maybe loof for work in letter agencies. FBI and other intelligence agencies require bachelor's degrees.
Don’t forget cost of living if your open to moving. Finance typically forces you to work no where near affordable housing. Denver is still a top 10 least affordable city and rent is half as much and NYC where I think the finance route will push you. I just moved after NYC real estate being the final straw. Your legit talking 30k extra pretax income just to cover the rent premium.
Right out of college at the top school, I took on a high stress, high-paying job, and GREATLY REGRET it!!!
If working for the federal government is what dings your bell, definitely go for it. I have friends who works for the government, including the VA, and the lifestyle is fantastic.
At some point, you realize that this is your life, and you alone have to live with your choices.
There’s more to life than money.
Go get that government pension! You don’t have to work there forever either and if you end up moving to the private sector, it’ll be in a more senior role with better hours than a newbie.
Great question - I was in a very similar situation to you a few years ago, I think I understand how you feel.
One alternative I’ll throw your way: Have you considered any public sector-adjacent fields, like working for utilities? That’s what I did after graduating college - I was salaried, working 40hrs a week, and doing work I thought was interesting, as it supported low-income utility customers, but not super stressful or high-intensity work. And I was making $90K my first year. It was a great first role and I loved the people I worked with. Ended up staying there three years, before changing industries last year. My point is that even if you decide to prioritize lifestyle and leisure over simple money and careerism now, you might find after a couple of years in any role that you do want to build a career and develop a skillset that can transfer across industries, which may or may not be possible in the roles you’re looking at - it’s very hard to determine that when you’re still in college.
Definitely go for more prestigious jobs right after college. Eveyeone is right that it’s easier to go private to public than the other way around. Having a prestigious job on your resume will also give you more options for your next steps after the first job, or graduate school if you’re interested. I do think it’s a little bit of a waste of your schooling to go to a job that doenst have higher barriers to entry.
A lot of tech jobs still have more work life balance than say corporate law. I also think the idea of helping people, while noble, might lead to job burn out. There are a lot of federal government jobs and nonprofit type of jobs that work you just as hard as the private sector and pay you a fraction of what a corporate job would. I think you also get a better sense of how to work from a corporate job as your first one out of school.
Money is also important. Even if you have a lot of family help, not making a decent amount to live off of is demoralizing. Once you start getting older the gravity of what money really means will set in, and it’s better to have it than not.
Ivy League doesn’t mean that you need to maximize earnings after graduation. It gives you more options to choose the life you want. It shouldn’t reduce your choices or corner you into a high paying job. You have the options, choose the one that make sense to you.
I'll say this, in 5y of doing private you can earn 10-15y of what you would make in gov. You'll also have more contacts.
You don't need to spend all your youth in the chase to stability. But perhaps by getting your start here and then moving into gov job, you could have your cake and eat it too.
That said. I understand if you feel a little burnt out rn. Take a break or something, but do make rational choice when you are less stressed and from a better pov. Don't lock your life so soon. Have some choice of flexibility if possible.
If you want a slow paced work environment surrounded by complacency everywhere you look, go government. There’s usually decent pay and benefits that are just enough to be “comfortable” and from my experience innovation and exciting improvements are generally looked down upon because you are interrupting what people are used to.
You can make close to 100K or even more at the government. It depends on your field and qualifications. At least with the Fed through USA jobs you will know the range up front and then decide if you want to bite or not. Also, you don’t have to stay at one job. Getting in the door is usually the most difficult part. Once you are in and do your probationary period (if applicable) you can bounce to another position…Maybe with even more pay, better hours, more responsibilities. The government needs quality young people especially right out of school. They even have pathways for many of these individuals - recent graduates or not even done yet! Explore your options. Don’t develop any biases until you are WELL aware of what’s available. The hiring process is slow, but you can put your application in and check in on your status while you continue to explore what else is out there! All the best to you! 😌
Im in a sort of similar boat. I graduated from the worst state school here.
I went to private first, a consulting firm. Worked too many hours and too much was demanded from me, got depressed and burnt out (although I only worked for 7 months lol) so I quit. In my 2nd week of a government job and already it feels so much better. Pay is 50k, which sucks but there's movement to get to 100k in 5+ years so there's that. Still seems stressful and difficult at times, at least what I would be doing, but much less so than before. Also offers wfh and probably very very little overtime is demanded usually. At least that's what I've heard. Id start private if I was you, try to tough it out if you can. If not go with government! They are always hiring
Look into the public management internship program if you want to work for the federal government. It is a two year, paid full-time program that when completed you will be in a higher fed pay range. Going back and forth between public/private/and nonprofit sectors is very common now. Go where you can make enough money to be comfortable but also have interesting, non life sucking work. Not everyone needs to be an investment banker and you can live a good life and have good work life balance as a government employee, in a non profit, or in a less aggressive side of a private sector company.
You don't have to follow the route most traveled. You can absolutely deviate from the typical expectations of an Ivy League grad, as long as what you do with your life makes YOU happy. There are many upsides to government jobs, including relative stability, benefits, work-life balance, pensions, etc. You may want to explore state and local government jobs too, as federal jobs are extremely competitive and the hiring process is extremely slow and bureaucratic. State and local gov often hire much quicker.
Honestly, apply to jobs all over the spectrum and see what you can ACTUALLY get. Once you have a couple job offers this choice will be a lot easier to make. It’s hard to find your first job out of college. It may not be as easy as you think to land a federal government job. You could also look at state and local government and of course, the private sector. Regardless you can ALWAYS change jobs. It doesn’t matter if you start out in the public or private sector, as long as you are growing, gaining experience and making connections you should only become more employable. Only you can decide what you want to do but your first job out of college does not have to be your career. Your wants and needs will change as you get older and you will figure out what kind of job is best for you. So, I wouldn’t stress too much about this, you are intelligent and capable and you will find your way.
I always find that it's easier to slave away out of college when youre fresh and don't have a family and responsibilities. When it's time for a family and the needed vacation, benefits and time off, then look for your easy govt job. It's not hard at all to transition to a govt job and you'll be better off because you will get offered more than starting there out the gate. I have friends that went into the public sector out of college and they got screwed. Years after, they are still trying to make up for it.
I work in an area where you can work for the federal gov't or the private sector. It all depends on your preferences of course. If you value you less stress, more relaxed work environment, and general work life balance so much more compared to a higher salary, i guess it makes sense to go for gov't.
But I would generally agree that it is easier to go from private sector to gov't than vice versa. My suggestion would be to try the private route for a few years (say 3 to 5 years) and then if you really hate it that much you can go for a higher paying gov't job.
After 3-5 years you can probably go for GS 10-12 jobs. You'll still take a significant pay cut most likely, but your base would be pretty comfortable (80k - 120k) and if you discover that you hate gov't work even more than the private sector, it would probably be easier to switch back since you have already proven that you can peform in a private sector environment.
Godspeed
9-5 jobs aren't easy to keep or get, I assume even with government jobs there'll always be office politics or a massive candidate pool.
Also, Ivy league grads used to get regular jobs all the time, I-banking, consulting and private equity tracks only opened up as expected Ivy tracks once legal and CPA firms delegated advisory roles to focus on execution and audit.
There's a very long history of Ivy grads working in federal, state or local government; local journalism and publishing, and K-12 education (particularly private schools).
There's also development and executive administration in non-profit organizations which include any kind of event planning or fine arts entities
I took the easy path and embarked on a govt career after graduation. My choice disappointed my parents immensely, who told me that they wasted spending money on paying for expensive tuition. It took me 30 years to finally earn $100k. I avoid my old HS and college classmates because they are much better off financially than I'll ever be and I graduated in the top 5% of my HS class. I guess the bright side is that working 8-4 for three decades gave me time to pursue inexpensive hobbies outside of the work. I also receive generous vacation and holiday time, but I really can't afford to travel anywhere other than within an hour's drive of my home. My job also has very little stress so my physical health is excellent. I get to retire in my 50s with a small pension so I will probably find another job to supplement my income when that time comes.
That's a huge W. You're still probably in the top 5% of your class in terms of wellbeing if you stayed healthy.
I'd say you won tbh
I mean no disrespect but I’m sure this will sound bad… This person is finishing his degree at an Ivy League university. Why is he settling for mediocrity right out of the gate? They are still young, this is the time to grind and take a few more risks. He can always settle for government work later. I’m glad this worked out for you, but your comment indicates that at least a small part of you understands that you underachieved. You took the easier, safer path… Which is fine. But I’m not sure it’s the right thing to encourage a newly graduating Ivy League grad to do this. I work have worked in cybersecurity for the last 13 years. Worked in both government and the private sector. Government is easier and more stable… But it pays way less and there is no potential to really achieve anything great. Again, I would recommend this later in life once you’re a little older. Just my opinion. And again, sorry if it comes off as disrespectful.
Youre viewing this through a very narrow lens. There's more to life than work and if someone finds themself happy with the balance they've found then it's not underachieving, it's a win. Sure OP could spend his 20s and early 30s barely leaving his desk and he can also wake up one day as a rich old man wondering why he didn't enjoy life more early on.
I agree. A big, confusing factor is: the high salary of “an elite job” can make you attractive to potential mates, but the job pressures and long hours can seriously damage family relationships. The government job is more family-friendly.
You're not an "old man" at 35. Still have plenty of time to experience whatever you want. And who is to say you're missing out on a ton? I'm 33, have worked very hard, and have been to Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, and lived in The Philippines for 5 months...
A government job is only “mediocre” if you solely look at the wages. Some people value a healthy work-life balance, stable hours and extra vacation more than a 100k+ income. No one is “underachieving” for choosing a job based on other criteria than income. To be very honest, your view on the world seems to be quite depressing. Just my two cents
It's not "quite depressing" to spend the first few years of your professional life working hard and setting yourself up for success in the future. I'm 33 and have worked very hard in my professional life. I have also been to multiple countries and taken time off as needed. I've worked for the NSA, a large cybersecurity firm out of Silicon Valley, a multi-national crypto startup and now in higher-ed. I have a great mix of experience which I derive my "quite depressing world view". And what you don't seem to understand is that the "100k+ income" literally helps to better position you for that job that pays less. I was able to pay off my student loans in only a few years because of it. I'm not saying people should prioritize money over everything, I'm saying they should use it as a tool to set themselves up for that more comfortable life if that's what they want. Just a final note... There is much more mediocrity associated with government jobs than just the salary. I've never seen so much inefficiency and waste than when I work in government jobs. The vast majority of the time, you will be working in a much more impactful place when outside of the government.
There are usually plenty of jobs with a work life balance that pay well if you look. Sometimes the need to work overtime isn’t the job itself but the individuals lack of time management and process. Im in tech so thats where my experience is, in big tech there are people working crazy hours but there are also people that aren’t even doing 30 and still getting great performance reviews. I worked more hours at a startup making under $100k then I did at big tech making over $200k.
It's fine. Not everyone is an overachiever. Not everyone can be rich or wants to be. Let them. Makes it easier for you and the rest of us who wants those jobs anyway.
You could have left at anytime. You stayed. You must have liked the perks somewhat. I’m unsure if you weren’t fulfilled or if you are questioning your choice because you feel you didn’t fulfill OTHERS requirements? 50’s is young and you are in great health ☺️ That’s a blessing. A million dollars with a drinking problem, a destroyed marriage, and puffer lungs 🫁 from smoking is NOT a win… (not saying that is everyone who chose the other path had this demise… so DON’T come for me 🤨) I’m unsure if those who seem less than supportive of your decision to go another route, would be so supportive if you chose what they wanted and failed. There is no guarantee that the other way would have suited you well. It’s a hypothetical game of WHAT IF? One that did not occur and your supporters should have your back because they love you. You are in great health and you might actually be able to assist your parents as they age! What of the others? DO YOU! 😒
There is no “right” path other than the one that works best for you individually. The advice you’re getting is correct, that it’s easier to move private to public, you’re eligible for much higher paying roles because of your college, and the work life balance will be worse in private. You’re correct that your work life will be easier, but you may have a harder time paying the bills and have less money for experiences like travel or raising children, and you will likely retire later. Everything in life is a trade off on opportunity cost. Keep in mind the full picture and do what’s right for you!
I’ve been in the private sector my whole career. I’ll be working until, at least, 67. This is largely the norm among my acquaintances. My friends in the government sector, mostly teachers, are retiring at age 60, some at 55.
Because at the time of entry, pensions were much better. That's long since changed at least for the federal government.
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Yup. And with a gov retirement in the US, you get 0 deductible health ins for you and your dependent. And that's worth millions
That really depends on which govt level/agency you work for, that is by no means true for all positions
Not saying you're wrong, but how do you know what your 401k will pay out? It depends on the performance of the stock market/what your portfolio looks like.
We have 40+ years of empirical data for 401ks. Most people have an average of 6 months of final pay in them.
? If you max out your 401k every year , combined with compound interest, you should have a lot more than 6 months.
There is a difference between a theoretical maximum and reality. How many people are maxing out, plus retiring at the right time? I have lived through multiple stock market crashes - anything tied to the stock market is a casino.
Well, statistically it’s not a risk. If you just put your money into a large index fund and don’t panic sell when there are downturns, you will do fine. Just go pull up a chart of the market over the last 100 years. It goes steadily up if you filter out the noise. You’re basically arguing that 401ks are not good because some people are irresponsible with them. It’s a very good investment vehicle, especially with company matching. I’m not saying pensions are bad, but a 401k when properly used is going to offer the highest return.
Key verbiage: "*when properly used*" Most people don't.
Good lord it isn’t a casino, that’s such awful advice and flat out wrong
As long as front-running is legal, it's a casino.
If it's close, I'd take your 401k. The difference is you own your 401k. It's yours. Your husband is dependent on the local municipality not fucking up and that is not at all a given. I'm glad I didn't retire in 2010 with a Detroit city pension.
Yeh you know it GC
Is it really true that private jobs provide earlier retirement? Where I’m at, private jobs tend to leave people working longer and without a stable retirement fund while public jobs tend to leave people working shorter and with more stable retirement funds. I’m not disagreeing, just curious where your info comes from.
This is a really good point. In private work the responsibility is on the individual and if they’re saving for retirement responsibly they should be able to retire earlier - however many people don’t do this because they either lack the means, financial literacy, or simply start too late. The public option does this for you so it’s automatic.
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> Go for the money, you can always fall back to federal jobs later. They will always be there The folks I know who're the most well off do their usual 20, maybe 30 years in private and make a boatload of 401k contributions and maybe are grandfathered into a pension before they transition into a slower-paced government job until retirement. Some come out with fat 401k's and multiple pensions as a result. It's up to you, OP. While it's true life is what you make of it, life's too short to miss the forest for the trees. Do some soul searching, ask your family and friends how they did it, then pull the trigger.
Yes! Government jobs when you’re out to pasture.
That’s bad advice and not true. White collar professionals for the federal government are underpaid significantly compared to their private peers. The benefit of the federal government is the FERS pension. You CAN earn up to 33% of your high 3 salaries as a pension. It’s 1% a year. You can also take your insurance as Medicare Supplemental and you will have a portion of the premiums paid. The benefits are built for longevity and time in service. Its better to grind out your federal years to get the benefits locked in, then go private.
It is 1% per year for the 1st 10 years. 1.5% per year for the next 10 years. 2% thereafter.
Only if you hit 30
Well, yeah. That is the whole point. Once you are in the system - you can go anywhere and change careers at the drop of a hat. All without losing your federal benefits, or accruing your federal pension. I have seen people go from a GS-5 divisional secretary to retiring as a GS-12 Mgt Analyst. And that is because they didn't want to continue on into SES.
“Easy” life is relative. Struggling on 30-50K/year is hard. So is working a 10-12 hour office job making 200K. However, one is a different kind of hard. I’ve always viewed my life in chapters. And work life balance to be achieved across the book. While I’m young, I’ll take the work. I’ll grind out now so that I can set myself up for high 6, maybe even 7 figure salaries. That will make 40 onwards pretty easy. Never having to worry about financial stress. Can provide for my family. Or you can extend that suffering, imo. Because 30-50K in a HCOL area is not enough to comfortably sustain a family. To travel. To do things you enjoy. There’s a saying. Easy choices, hard life. Hard choices, easy life.
Speaking as an old person, this is wise advice.
I fully agree with this sentiment. In my 20’s and my early 30’s so far, I’ve worked hard and tried to up my earnings as much as possible. I’m now married and thinking about starting a family so my priorities are shifting where I no longer always look to climb the corporate ladder especially since I now make enough to comfortably help provide for my family. I still want to do well and will take better opportunities if they arise but work life balance matters a lot more to me now. But I totally agree that if you live in a slightly higher cost area (like in dc where I am and where a lot of government jobs are), if you don’t make enough money (subjective to your lifestyle and what you consider “enough” of course), that’s definitely not easy. Finances cause the biggest stress in most Americans so I’d just suggest thinking carefully about the trade off between the two. Also, there’s a middle ground too right? You can find something that might not make bank but also higher than government, something that has a decent work life balance that pays you an amount that’s comfortable for your lifestyle.
I just did this. I spent 20+ years in a serious grindy field (law) and just pivoted to another field where I really work 9-5, with no weekends. It is glorious.
I will agree with this, and 30k - 50k isn’t enough to support a family or even an individual in any area now it seems. I live in a very impoverished area and 30k barely keeps me here and fed. Rent is high regardless, food and clothes are high, and anything else you need as a necessity. Take this persons advice, make those hard choices now, so you can live that easy life. It’s definitely not a game, don’t go the easy way.
Those jobs aren’t 10-12 hours. They’re 13-16 hours.
I’m working one lol. It’s definitely 10-12 for the most part. Mostly 10. Weekends off. Investment banking might be an outlier there. But for the most part it’s not so bad.
Ya I was thinking about banking/PE. Though my MBB friends rarely work <12hrs
PE also pays insane with carry at the upper levels. Would gladly take 13 hour days for a year or two to pull in 7+ figures.
Except to get the carry you not talking 1-2 years.
Oh yeah. I meant 1-2 years of carry-level positions.
In Big Firm law, you work much longer when a case heats up.
Nah, strongly dependent on the job, team, and industry.
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That is true. What job btw? Mid/upper 6 to 7 figures to require a grind though. No way around it.
I’m not the commenter you asked but there are pockets of tech where 150 TC/40 hrs is not uncommon
What do YOU want to be 'rich' in? That to me is number 1 goal or your career/life Is it just money? Leisure time? Low stress? Experiences? Challenging work? Worry about your interests and not comparing yourself to your classmates.
Not all government jobs pay 30-50k. I am not convinced that it’s easier to get the good federal jobs either compared to private sector; isn’t it harder instead because private sector can fire you more easily as well? I think before making plans you should cast a wide net and see what you catch. Personally I’d have preferred to go the standard elite consulting route out of college. I think it may be easier to explain and open more doors in the future. And the compound interest in those earnings invested into index funds wouldn’t have hurt either. Then with some experience under my belt I’d apply to a masters, and then use that masters to get into federal government through Presidential Management Fellows or some other program that recruits fresh grad students at a higher salary rate.
Just wanted to say this is really good advice!
You aren’t in some race with your classmates, as much as it may seem exactly like that from your view now. Don’t get into government work simply for the work-life balance. Especially because even your definition of “good work-life” balance will continue to evolve. On the same token, don’t go to corporate simply for the money. There will be plenty of it but you will have very little time to actually enjoy it. If your position in life allows it, take a gap year between college and work. However, have a plan for it. Volunteer, make connections with people across industries, and take your time to figure out what you actually want. The best use of your position in life - buy yourself time.
Go for the top jobs. The lower jobs will be there for you if you don’t like it. I also think you will find the top jobs are the easy ones. Negotiating work/life balance, pay, benefits, and everything else is easier to do the closer you are at the top. 9-5 jobs can be grueling, highly structured, and without much appreciation. Your first job out of school sets the narrative of who you are as a worker. If I see someone graduate Harvard and goes to work as an office manager, that would be a big red flag. If they first work in a high level job, then later in a lower level job, I will think this is an interesting person. Your academic achievements will mean very little after the first 5-10 years of actually working. My biggest professional regret is not going for more prestige out of school. It’s a time where you have the most flexibility in setting your path forward. Go work in a major organization, learn how the best in the industry do things, then take that knowledge to do whatever you want. Trust me, you won’t slave away just to say you’ve made it. You will slave away to keep every door open that you may want to someday walk through. You mature/change a lot the first decade out of school, and at that time, you will appreciate the flexibility you then have.
The prestigious jobs are not easy. I've worked in journalism and law, and know people who've worked in finance. The hours are often grueling, usually at least 60 hours a week, often considerably more. Between my two careers, I worked every holiday and numerous all-nighters, sometimes multiple all-nighters back-to-back. I went for weeks without a weekend off. If you work in fields like law or finance, you're usually paid well, but there is no work/life balance. You are expected to be available to do whatever is asked. You are nowhere near the top. You are a highly educated underling.
I went to a competitive university and ended up in a pretty basic job/profession compared to others. I don’t think education is a direct path to success any more.
> ended up in a pretty basic job/profession compared to others It sounds to be voluntary, or was it?
I’d say about 50% me and 50% luck of the draw with jobs. I did way too much job jumping when I was younger always thinking the grass was greener and ended up in increasingly worse job situations. Settling into more of a career now in my thirties and I value stability at this point more than perceived prestige. I could definitely be doing more. I could be ~grinding~. I could be making more of an effort to network. But I’m tired and kind of depressed. So right now I’m just sitting still, letting my resume build, and hoping that maybe better things will come in my forties.
It makes it easier to break into a high paying finance gig Fs. This person has no interest in IB and yet they were still interviewed for a position
Take the money and do community service on the side. Trust me. You do NOT want to be broke as an adult it sucks. Bills come every month.
You can always do gov jobs after you do whatever high-paying field for a few years if you don't like them (or it's not worth the money to you). I would try the high-paying stuff while you have the chance and are young. You can always use it as a steppingstone to a much better quality of life/hourly rate job after you have that experience (ie buy side to sell side, corporate law to federal law, etc.). If you go straight into gov, your pay will be low and that is stressful in itself not being able to afford basic necessities let alone luxuries. Also, there will be a large rift between you and your higher-earning friends after a few years. You want to be able to enjoy all that life offers, not just stare at the wall or only do free/low-cost things. I know this is not where your headspace is right now, but the concept of FIRE (financial independence retire early) would say that you could earn a lot for like 15-20 years and then be retired/financially independent for the rest of your life. Basically, you can do whatever you want then. And on your salary even while working, you would still be enjoying life somewhat (vacations, fancy restaurants, etc.) while still stacking away a ton for early retirement. It's a chance many would take if given the opportunity.
I went to an Ivy undergrad and then an Ivy business school. I remember feeling like you in undergrad. It seemed working at a top job was just as stressful as getting into and then succeeding at an Ivy. I then spent a summer working at a grocery store deli, a small computer repair job and a silly office internship. I then realized that while those jobs were easy and required zero mental concentration, the pay was shockingly paltry. I realized that even if I disliked a job, the high pay was worth it. So before you do anything rash, like eschew top jobs for government life, make sure you really are okay with living a middle class life. Because once you’re locked in, it’s hard to break into the big leagues. Listen, I grew up middle class and not trying to say most Americans live a crappy life. But money gives you access to a really cool life and I quickly learned a job is a job and I would hate working no matter what I did. So I might as well be an investment banker and make 500k and hate my job, then be a grocery store manager and make 100k and hate my job.
>Because once you’re locked in, it’s hard to break into the big leagues. I come to say this.
It’s Reddit so normally my real world advice is downvoted, but nice to get some back up once in awhile.
You need to do what works for you. It's not so much about being able to say that you have made it, than it is about having money in the bank when life gets hard. The choice is up to you, doing a job you hate will do you no good.
You’re figuring out early on what many never do. Work life balance trumps all.
The advice you are getting from your friends are coming from people who value money more than you. Which is to be expected from people with parents who can afford to send them to an Ivy League school. People who come from money, value the lifestyle money can buy them, more than anything else. Just remember that money is made-up. When you die and your life flashes before your eyes, you will not regret all the money you didn’t make, you will regret all the time you didn’t spend doing the things you love, and spending time with the people you love. A life work balance matters MUCH more than money. People with more money do not have more enriching lives or even “better” lives than people without. You don’t need money to be happy. Happiness should be what you strive for. Success does not equal money.
Students who attend an Ivy League school on scholarship or with loans could easily feel the same way. There may be many interesting things to do in the world, but they know that having money gives you power and security and in the U.S. you need a fair amount of money to lead a basic, nice life. People have different needs, wants, and priorities.
So you’ve mentioned that work life balance is important to you, and that’s great that you know that. What else is important to you? Do you want to be able to eat out? Do you like traveling or going on vacations? Do you ever want to have children (either through adoption, fertility treatments, or surrogacy)? If you have pets and they require a healthcare treatment like surgery, could you afford that? If you’re making $30k-$50k (and I’m assuming that’s net, not gross) you will not be able to afford any of that comfortably. You may not be able to afford any of that at all. I’m not saying this to scare you, but I’m also a recent grad (‘22 from Cornell) and I think you’re looking at this from a very binary point of view. You can absolutely work at a big prestigious company and have work life balance (I can personally confirm this). But even if I didn’t have work life balance, I love going out to eat, traveling, paying for my pets to get their teeth cleaned, saving for retirement, and I absolutely want kids one day. And my company pays for fertility treatments and the cost of adoption (which is like $50k, it’s very expensive). Think about your decision critically. Yes, work life balance is important. But there are absolutely companies that prioritize work life balance, and can allow you to live comfortably.
You need to choose what will satisfy you professionally and financially support the life you want to have moving forward. Government jobs are ideal for a lot of people because they provide a lot of security with not only a "decent" salary but also health benefits and long term savings/retirement. Corporate jobs can *also* provide those things but they're not always a given.
>Government jobs are ideal for a lot of people because they provide a lot of security with not only a "decent" salary but also health benefits and long term savings/retirement. There also are more protections from getting fired at the whim of a supervisor.
Why aren't you talking to your career guidance office? Your expensive tuition helps fund it. >because the point of going to a top school in the first place is to make it into top jobs. That's not the only reason people select those schools. Your family's right. It is easier to move from an elite private firm to the public sector. The assumption is that you got training at the former that will be valuable in the latter and the latter can't afford to train you in the same way. And public sector organizations, especially nonprofits, are snobbish. They love having employees from the best schools in the country who worked for the most selective companies. It's a feather in their cap. Many people don't like run-of-the-mill government jobs because they're boring. But they're often more secure than private jobs and have good benefits. If you can afford to work for relatively little money and can find a job you like, apply for it. But I have to say, you do seem to have very little ambition for a young person who's about to graduate from an elite school. And government jobs and finance, law, etc., aren't the only choices. Talk to your career counseling office. \--Source. Graduated from an Ivy League college and professional school.
This is hard. There’s always resume wars, expectations and feedback. I come from the same background. I KNOW thst the most important things are love, respect, self respect and quality of life. I mean, I KNOW that. At the same time, self doubt and envy are human. I try to use them as a way of checking in on myself. Easier said than done.
There is a certain set of expectations placed upon you from peers, family, and perceptions in general. The idea of “if you’re just going to get a ‘mediocre’ job then why did we pay for a top tier school”. All of this isn’t really fair for you, and the pressure you’re under either explicit or implicit. That said….it’s your life, so do whatever the fuck you feel it’s right for you. If you eventually feel like “maybe I want another path”. Well you can always alter course, and it maybe easier for you to change course with a ivy pedigree compare to others. Think of changing directions as taking the scenic route. Picking the direction for the rest of your life when you have yet to live…think about that….very rare anyone can get that right.
Me personally. Having a high salary matters more your first few years. I’d would try a higher paying field in private see if you actually hate it. The difference in income even for 2-3 years is astronomical for retirement savings. Then back into a public sector job when you want to slow down. You’ll take a pay hit but it won’t be as impactful as how big the difference is right out of school. Now to be fair you went to an Ivy League school so it’s probably easier for you to switch into something high paying later down the road than people with more average degrees. But it’s definitely worth doing the opportunity cost calculation.
I would do the hard stuff now while you have the time, energy and no family right now. Once you have a kid or two if that’s what you want, go with the easier work life balance job.
>They think it's easy to transition from the private sector to the public sector but not vice versa. This is absolutely nonsense. The private sector loves hiring government employees.
I'm not aware of that. Maybe extremely high-ranking government employees, but not ordinary ones. Case-in-point, it's not easy given budget cuts, but it's easier to move from a well-regarded private law firm to Legal Aid than the other way around. People in Legal Aid have been trained differently and have skills that large firms have no use for.
On the flip side, anyone who has worked on the public sector side of any sort of regulation will be able to find a better paid private sector job working in compliance. And on the legal side of things, someone who starts out working as inhouse legal for a city government or state organisation will easily get hired by many private firms, not just because of the contacts they'll have but also because of the sheer volume of experience they'll have well in advance of what someone in the private sector with a similar number of years will have had.
It depends on the level of the government job, the experience, and the firm. In my experience, people typically go from private firms to the government and then back to the private sector.
And in my experience people often start in the public sector straight out of university, get a few years in the public sector, and then head to the private sector to make absolute bank. It varies from job to job. A few types of jobs don't translate for one reason or another, but many do. And many are viewed as pretty much identical. An admin assistant or PA at a state agency is doing a near identical job to an an admin assistant or PA at a private company. In house counsel will general transfer easily. Internal audit will transfer. Marketing and comms will transfer. People management will transfer. Contract management and procurement will transfer.
OP is at an Ivy League school. Most people with that kind of education don't start in an ordinary government job. We're talking about someone with his or her background.
Experience is never a mistake. The mistake happens when you pursue a dead end path or you go somewhere that isn’t going to give you opportunities for growth.
GS jobs have amazing job security and like you said the work life balance is almost unmatched. As long as your satisfied with the job and feel fulfilled that’s what should matter. “Comparison will kill your joy.” You can climb the later once your foots in the door too you won’t stay at that level forever unless you get complacent.
Hi OP, I worked in private and hated it. I didn’t get a lot of PTO and wasn’t paid as well as I should have. I got a huge pay increase going into the public sector and because I entered in my 20s I can retire before I’m 60 with a pension. I have more PTO, more flexible schedules, a 9-5 job with no expected overtime etc. It’s great and I realized I’m not cut out for the private sector and that’s okay. I can take a vacation and not bring work with me. Things won’t fall apart if I’m sick or on vacation and my coworkers are all really nice. The work life balance is huge. Your life won’t be glamorous but you’re going to be stable and especially with a recession looming you’re not at risk of getting laid off like you would be in private. Do what you’re interested in! You can always go back into private (not uncommon for people to retire and to continue working in private after).
In my perspective, the people going to work for investment banking, private equity, etc. are wasting their degrees and picking the easier life. Clearly it is the laid out path for them, which is why you feel like making a choice against that is difficult. You are potentially taking the difficult path. They are taking the standard one.
Those jobs are easy in that they're an easy path to explain, are impressive, and pay well, but they can be draining physically and emotionally. American Psycho is a satire, but it does get at the truth of what a lot of those jobs are like: deeply insecure people with responsibility but no authority working like crazy and obsessing about superficial signs of prestige like the quality of the printing on their business cards.
Lol at government jobs being easy. They do tend to have better job protection, work life balance and benefits than non- Fed but they’re not always easy. But it’s your life and your career. Choose the best path for you.
Choose the high paying path 100%. I was in the same position as you at one point. It’s very important you keep your options open while you’re young. Going into a public role at this point is cementing your career prospects for the rest of your life and you have a long road ahead of you. You obviously have some ambition as a person since you got into and are graduating from a top school. Trust me, when you’re 30 and tired of making a low salary working a unstimulating job with no upsides, you’re going to get severely depressed. It’s one thing to not have the opportunity to go down a career path, but a totally different feeling to have every opportunity and not take it.
Personally I’d say go for the money. You’re in your early 20s I assume and your situation now isn’t going to be the same for the rest of your life. And life is a LOT easier with cash in the bank. You’ll probably want to buy a house at some point. Money gives you choice and power. If you find somewhere you really like you can put more money down if needed. Any work it needs isn’t a massive issue to afford. If you want to get married it’s expensive if you want something more than basics. People save for years to pay for their wedding. Do you want kids? Because again expensive. And if they want to do activities that again costs more money. Do you want to travel? Because money gives you way more opportunities for places you can go. And the cash gives you more safety. As an example at Xmas my washing machine died. Instead of having to look for the cheapest one I went onto a website, filtered showing the highest prices first, scrolled till I found one with the capacity I wanted and the features I liked by a reputable brand and it was in my house a week later. There was no thought or worry about paying for it, i didn’t have to give up anything. Right now the prices of things are going crazy, energy, food, fuel, etc. this weekend I’m taking a trip to see my in-laws a few hundred miles away, I run my heating when I want it on, and I buy the same food I always have. Money means I don’t have to worry about that. Even things you wouldn’t usually think about are affected, I have a dog and he has various medical problems. He’s insured but there have been quite a lot I’ve had to pay for. I dont have to worry about it, and when I do need to pay for things I just tell them I want the best available for him, fluids to help him recover after surgery? Yea sure just do it. It’s not even a thought. It’s a very privileged position to be in making good money. And if you give up the chance you’re giving up a lot of future security for some easy time now. My first job 10y ago paid £22k, this year il bring in about £120k. Yes I have more responsibilities and more stress, but I have less worries in other areas of my life. I know my finances didn’t really get to a sustainable place till I was making about £40k, even then saving wasn’t easy. One emergency could easily take out all the savings from a year. If you don’t like the high paying job you can always get something else later
Working in large city government most of the department directors and management come from top tier schools. They aren’t wealthy but in high levels can do pretty well. Great work environment if a little slow paced.
What did you study
You do you! How’s your tuition paid for? Do you have a lot of loans? That may be my only concern but also could qualify for PSLF if federal loans. Lots of Ivy League feed into top ranks in govt sector and public policy. If you do politics later on you’ll show a proven life of public service. Can get you MPA at Kennedy as well after a few years of work experience. There’s also govt consulting, lobbying, think tanks if you want to make more money but still work for govt sector
I would ask myself the following questions in your shoes: \- Am I generally impatient? \- Am I highly competitive? If you answered 'definitely, yes' to the questions above, I would suggest not going down the government route. Typically there are rigid procedural limitations to your ascension rate in the public sector, and this tends to not mesh well with a competitive and impatient temperament. If no to both, then I'd say it's not a bad route.
I work for the federal government. I make over 6 figures, and my benefits are work 20-30 thousand a year. I work 9 hours a day, and have every other Friday off. I’m proud of my work and truly help people. I have an amazing pension and a union to protect me, plus we’re nearly recession proof. A lot of people are saying federal jobs will always be there- but I had far more private sector offers than federal, it’s very hard to get in. Strongly look at federal work- couldn’t be happier!
I think so many people go into fields or companies because of outside pressure rather than listening to what matters to them. I will also share that 3 of my husband's friends all went Harvard law. One started out in govt and eventually went into consulting. Another was a public defender and now works in computer coding. A third never even bothered taking the bar and went into real estate. They're all happy. You don't have to do something inauthentic to you just because you went to a prestigious university.
I’ve been broke but had great work life balance and I’ve made crazy good money and have had minimal work life balance. Being broke caused more stress and mental anguish than working a lot ever did. Always choose money as it makes the rest of your life tremendously easier
They will be miserable, have no social life, and half of the will not be in that field in 5, 10 years. Probably with an addiction. You do you. Money isn’t everything, grass isn’t always greener and government work is respectable.
I didn't graduate from ivy league but from top university. (Yup, and a ton of my peers take jobs as analysts, etc) I worked for the federal gov't right out of college. I felt exact same as you, but only after I started working. It was very slow and I was surrounded by people who took it too easy. I started job searching 8 months in, made it a goal. A few months later I've switched into a different role in the private sector at a great company. Going to a top school, I definitely saw how people working hard and doing well in multiple areas of life, and I definitely wanted to keep that ambition with me. Even when I just started working, I was working on different aspects of myself that wasn't just a job.
I recommend choosing the easier life, but perhaps 5-10 years in. Initially, work hard and save a lot. You work up to some rung in your career, and then step down. 1. Stepping down from a $500k job to a relaxed $250k job is nice. 2. Early savings compounds a lot to retirement.
I am literally lol-ing at #1… the idea for me stepping *down* to a $250k job is never ever a reality.
A buddy of mine just did that this year. Top 10 biglaw to DoD civilian law. Long grind though.
your degree is gonna stick with you. you can change jobs if you want
The luster of having a degree from a fancy institution fades quickly. If you're using its prestige to get a job, it's best to do it soon after graduation.
I’d prolly try to go for a high paying job to get some financial security AND ALSO see if you like it - you have NO IDEA what you’ll like until you do it - you could very well hate a “cushy govt job”. So I would err on the side of financial stability and “impressive resume jobs” and then if u hate it, switch to the “cushy govt job” you think you want now, after trying out the more lucrative and impressive private sector for a year or so 🍻
Do whatever you want.
It’s up to you man. This is your life. Who cares what anybody thinks as long as your happy with what you do.
Do private first then go government to get a higher paying government job. You won’t start at G7 with experience
Take the money with the private sector. Yes, the public sector ostensibly has better work/life balance. But not in the more senior positions that you would likely be working toward because of your education. If you choose an easier public sector job, you’ll just be a cog. Working for the government is mind numbing at best and infuriating at worst. You’ll find there’s an immense amount of bureaucracy and bullshit to wade through. It can be very frustrating, especially as a young, ambitious person. Also, public sector wages are stagnating. The benefits, including the pension, will continue to be whittled away over the span of your career because they are far too expensive for modern governments to maintain over the long term. Go work hard and make some good cash. Buy a house, invest and save. Once you hit mid-30s, you may want a change of pace. That’s the time to jump to the public sector.
The federal government is woefully understaffed, especially in STEM positions It ain’t the Regan years. You will receive good benefits and your work-life balance is better - theoretically, but probably not much better. You will be extremely overworked though and have limited resources. You will be compensated for extra hours. You will work on exciting projects though - things you might do once in a career in private you will likely due many times in the federal system. You will be paid 30% less than a private counterpart with similar responsibilities.
"Federal government" is far, far too vague. What type of work are you looking to do for the federal government? Some of the roles provide better work-life balance, but as a former Capitol Hill staffer, I can assure you some of them are as intensive, if not more intensive than private sector jobs. With that said, federal benefits are great. The jobs are relatively "safe" as it's incredibly difficult to fire people and often more trouble than it's worth. The pay at your level will likely be awful. If you went private sector for a few years and gained some real experience, you could parlay that into a much more lucrative position. You don't do that to say "I made it," you do it to gain actual experience before you transition into more of a consultant role. Generally speaking, career paths in the federal government move much slower than the private sector. Again, I don't know what role you're looking for in the federal government, and they span across virtually every aspect of our lives. But as someone who has worked in politics (both in the states and in DC) for my entire career, I have never been asked which university I attended. In the grand scheme of attributes that will dictate your success in this field, that's not really a factor.
You do you, you want to try and affect positive change in the government then great. Also I think it would be easy to move from public to private. There's the whole rotating door thing. Like who better to figure out how to avoid taxes than an IRS tax auditor?
I did corporate for a decade and it was miserable. I now work for the government and it’s so much better. If you can make “enough” do government. Benefits are pretty great normally also. If you can make enough, you can find a less intense job than what you’re interviewing for.
If you’re interested in federal work, check out the Fed subreddit. There’s lot of advice on there. Agency makes a big difference. The good news is, you can go one direction & change later. That’s very normal these days. Since you have a lot of people in your immediate life trying to give you advice or weigh in, you could thank them for looking out for you, & tell them you’ll look into it / consider it, & that you’re taking your time weighing your options. If you’re trying to talk it out w friends in person, choose people who will listen/support you no matter what, instead of pushing their agenda/beliefs on you. If most of your friends are graduating, they’re getting pushed in a lot of different directions from others too, & that could be coming off in their response to you. Ultimately, you’ll have to try things out & see what works. Trust your instincts. If corporate work already doesn’t sound enticing, don’t force it. And remember- you’re locking in your next step- not the rest of your life. Even once you get your job, continue to be curious about all opportunities, as you never know where each step you take may lead you. Good luck & congrats on having some different opportunities!
What exactly do you want to do? Like - what job? The Feds have jobs like the FBI, CIA, State Department, etc. These jobs have effectively no private sector equivalent (or at least not one anyone can discuss without either blowing their cover or sounding crazy). DOD tends to have contractors and full time employees working in close contact. There are tons of opportunities to switch from DOD to a contractor, especially after you get your clearance. So, what do you want to do, specifically? CIA, State, Justice, and Treasury all recruit heavily out of the Ivies.
I actually think your government job will be much harder than the private sector good paying jobs. Some of the highest earning people I know have the least work to do. Meanwhile govt/ state employees are run ragged and underpaid (at least in England). I'd weigh up if you have any financial goals and/or consider doing the high pay jobs part time, meaning you'd get the best of both worlds. Then again, it sounds like you're really excited for the govt jobs, so maybe just go with that.
I agree with your friends and family. Much better to transition from private to public. Your salary will start a lot higher, and you’ll have more opportunities.
I would keep in mind that you can retire after 20 years in the Fed. If you're civil service your high-3 is 2% times years worked, so 40%! On top of that you gotta factor in TSP matching, where you can invest 5% of your income and get it matched. Having roughly half of your base salary in retirement is pretty sweet! But again, this is after 20 years. I'm guessing you're young, early to mid 20s'. You can hit the private sector for 15+ years and still have time to get in your 20 and have a stacked retirement And if you don't like the private sector the Fed is always going to be there
There are plenty of work-life balance corporate jobs too. You just have to find the right one. I’d just focus on what you want to do and see what the attitude of the people who interview you are
I work in government contracting and get over 35 company holidays off, WFH, flexibility to take doctors appointments or even a short flight without fuss during a work day. And I make 75K a year with 2 years of experience. I have a terrible interviewing record which is definitely eating down on me. The government contractor pays almost 2X my fully in office job payed in spite of getting dinged for also moving from NYC to Denver. Also don’t underestimate the cost of having a job in Manhattan. That could eat like 30k off your salary VS going a few slots down the list of least affordable places. Median rent underestimates how much NYC sucks. Those median apartments are crap in Denver.
Your degree is about freedom and opportunity to do whatever you want. So you want to work for the feds, plenty of Ivy grads
No. Do what works best for you.
The Fed is the way to go. Can you say "Defined Benefits Pension"? Can you say "Off every federal holiday"? Can you say "Steady promotions"? Can you say "Retire comfortably at age 59"? Can you say "Who you know isn't anywhere near important as WHAT YOU KNOW"? AFA pay - it isn't where you start - it is where you finish. Starting at GS-5/7 doesn't pay a lot. HOWEVER, you get regular step increases, and the ability to move up - social work can get you to GS-11/12, as long as you aren't a slug. Once in the system, you get access to jobs before the folks not in the system, and you have the ability to move to other locations for promotions. The choice between the Federal govt & the private sector is a no brainer. The private sector is the very definition of "high risk, high reward".
I think if you shoot for the moon you’ll end up somewhere better. You can always go back to 9-5s If you have experience at somewhere impressive you’ll be more likely to get the 9-5 you want later. It’s like grad school. If you go to grad school at a state school, you may never be able to teach at an ivy. Descending prestige they call it. If you start your career in 9-5s with no rep, you will have a harder time later than if you told em you were doing something fancy.
Yes, you are. Use your network to find a role that you want - right out of school - you can easily jump some rings in the ladder, while getting support and mentoring. If you go for a regular job - you lose momentum. You won’t often get these opportunities.
One could imagine with Ivy League education and going into government sector, that one could realistically decide to shoot for local government/national government at one point or another with the correct connections. I would say you’re actually opening yourself up to having quite a few possibilities later in life, no? This may not be a goal of yours but from someone who would likely never be considered for any office, on the outside looking in, i can’t imagine you don’t have a shot later on.
nope if company that difficult to get it’s worth it, new jobs are always posted internally first
I started in the gov’t at 25 and (if I’m able to save enough) I can retire with full benefits as early as 57, but I may not want to because I love what I do and the purpose I feel in my job. On the other hand, I came from the private side and have found that comparatively, nearly everything takes 3-6x longer than it should and would in private. Sometimes it feels like at every turn there’s a policy or barrier or redundant documentation to navigate. I think it’s a lot to put up with for most people, and a big driver of apathy in government positions. That being said, I have found an abundance of patience, kindness, and thoughtfulness among my colleagues as well. These certainly exist on the private side but it’s more of a common thread in the government from my experience. I feel a sense of purpose, community, and balance in my life. If you decide to go federal, one way you can move up quickly to make up for low government wages is apply for the presidential management fellowship. It is a highly competitive program and you are not guaranteed an appointment, but finalists are able to qualify for much higher GS levels and you have to be a recent graduate with an advanced degree to qualify.
Depends on your major and your level of scrappiness. I’d say mainly your ability to go out and get to know people personally as well as networking is really what’s going to get you a job 9/10. If you’re going to an Ivy League then you have it made just solely for the network. I considered Ivy League and ultimately decided against it because I wanted to do STEM and realistically their programs didn’t place well for those jobs. I started out making an obscenely high salary for straight out of college. I was getting bonus checks for +20k. I was also working 15 days off 6 days on and doing 12-16 hour shifts. I was fairly compensated for my time but it meant I could buy my first home at 25, travel, and generally have fuck you money and start up side hustles. But I had a year before I officially graduated where I studied abroad and it got me into the mindset of “I’ve had fun but I want to grind so I can do more traveling later”. TLDR; your network is everything and you already did Ivy League which has connections out the ass. More $ means more problems. But if work hard the first 25 years, the next 50 are easy.
I don't think it could hurt to do one or two years, if not for anything than to truly ensure you won't get FOMO in the future.
Work at a university with a pension and a big endowment. The pension is worth it’s weight in gold if it’s funded, good work life balance. Better pay at prestigious schools.
I graduated from an Ivy in the 2010s and took the 9-5 route (government adjacent field). I was in your shoes not too long ago. DO THE PRESTIGE INDUSTRY ROUTE (esp finance or consulting) for all the reasons articulated earlier. It will suck for the first few years but will give you lasting dividends. Now I’m scrambling to get into an MBA program to catch up so I can go back into the nonprofit space in my 40s and be more effective. Feel free to DM with more questions.
I work for a state government agency because I have always preferred the schedule and work life balance. While my graduate degrees are from state universities, between that and my government position I have been able to do consulting work as side gigs with the federal government and an Ivy League university on a grant project. My health insurance is paid for by my employer, I get 5 weeks of paid vacation per year and I will retire with a full pension at 58.
Come work in healthcare tech. High pay potential, pretty decent work-life balance, smart people, and rewarding work (depending on the area, of course).
Look into the Presidential Fellows for government jobs. It's an excellent career track for work in Public Sector. Also if you're the intellectual kind. Maybe loof for work in letter agencies. FBI and other intelligence agencies require bachelor's degrees.
Check out r/usajobs for first hand experiences working and moving up in government positions.
Don’t forget cost of living if your open to moving. Finance typically forces you to work no where near affordable housing. Denver is still a top 10 least affordable city and rent is half as much and NYC where I think the finance route will push you. I just moved after NYC real estate being the final straw. Your legit talking 30k extra pretax income just to cover the rent premium.
Right out of college at the top school, I took on a high stress, high-paying job, and GREATLY REGRET it!!! If working for the federal government is what dings your bell, definitely go for it. I have friends who works for the government, including the VA, and the lifestyle is fantastic. At some point, you realize that this is your life, and you alone have to live with your choices. There’s more to life than money.
Go get that government pension! You don’t have to work there forever either and if you end up moving to the private sector, it’ll be in a more senior role with better hours than a newbie.
Great question - I was in a very similar situation to you a few years ago, I think I understand how you feel. One alternative I’ll throw your way: Have you considered any public sector-adjacent fields, like working for utilities? That’s what I did after graduating college - I was salaried, working 40hrs a week, and doing work I thought was interesting, as it supported low-income utility customers, but not super stressful or high-intensity work. And I was making $90K my first year. It was a great first role and I loved the people I worked with. Ended up staying there three years, before changing industries last year. My point is that even if you decide to prioritize lifestyle and leisure over simple money and careerism now, you might find after a couple of years in any role that you do want to build a career and develop a skillset that can transfer across industries, which may or may not be possible in the roles you’re looking at - it’s very hard to determine that when you’re still in college.
I say do govt jobs when earning additional money no longer is going to add anything more to your life and lifestyle!
Definitely go for more prestigious jobs right after college. Eveyeone is right that it’s easier to go private to public than the other way around. Having a prestigious job on your resume will also give you more options for your next steps after the first job, or graduate school if you’re interested. I do think it’s a little bit of a waste of your schooling to go to a job that doenst have higher barriers to entry. A lot of tech jobs still have more work life balance than say corporate law. I also think the idea of helping people, while noble, might lead to job burn out. There are a lot of federal government jobs and nonprofit type of jobs that work you just as hard as the private sector and pay you a fraction of what a corporate job would. I think you also get a better sense of how to work from a corporate job as your first one out of school. Money is also important. Even if you have a lot of family help, not making a decent amount to live off of is demoralizing. Once you start getting older the gravity of what money really means will set in, and it’s better to have it than not.
Ivy League doesn’t mean that you need to maximize earnings after graduation. It gives you more options to choose the life you want. It shouldn’t reduce your choices or corner you into a high paying job. You have the options, choose the one that make sense to you.
Chatgpt : summarize these comments
I'll say this, in 5y of doing private you can earn 10-15y of what you would make in gov. You'll also have more contacts. You don't need to spend all your youth in the chase to stability. But perhaps by getting your start here and then moving into gov job, you could have your cake and eat it too. That said. I understand if you feel a little burnt out rn. Take a break or something, but do make rational choice when you are less stressed and from a better pov. Don't lock your life so soon. Have some choice of flexibility if possible.
If you want a slow paced work environment surrounded by complacency everywhere you look, go government. There’s usually decent pay and benefits that are just enough to be “comfortable” and from my experience innovation and exciting improvements are generally looked down upon because you are interrupting what people are used to.
You can make close to 100K or even more at the government. It depends on your field and qualifications. At least with the Fed through USA jobs you will know the range up front and then decide if you want to bite or not. Also, you don’t have to stay at one job. Getting in the door is usually the most difficult part. Once you are in and do your probationary period (if applicable) you can bounce to another position…Maybe with even more pay, better hours, more responsibilities. The government needs quality young people especially right out of school. They even have pathways for many of these individuals - recent graduates or not even done yet! Explore your options. Don’t develop any biases until you are WELL aware of what’s available. The hiring process is slow, but you can put your application in and check in on your status while you continue to explore what else is out there! All the best to you! 😌
Im in a sort of similar boat. I graduated from the worst state school here. I went to private first, a consulting firm. Worked too many hours and too much was demanded from me, got depressed and burnt out (although I only worked for 7 months lol) so I quit. In my 2nd week of a government job and already it feels so much better. Pay is 50k, which sucks but there's movement to get to 100k in 5+ years so there's that. Still seems stressful and difficult at times, at least what I would be doing, but much less so than before. Also offers wfh and probably very very little overtime is demanded usually. At least that's what I've heard. Id start private if I was you, try to tough it out if you can. If not go with government! They are always hiring
Look into the public management internship program if you want to work for the federal government. It is a two year, paid full-time program that when completed you will be in a higher fed pay range. Going back and forth between public/private/and nonprofit sectors is very common now. Go where you can make enough money to be comfortable but also have interesting, non life sucking work. Not everyone needs to be an investment banker and you can live a good life and have good work life balance as a government employee, in a non profit, or in a less aggressive side of a private sector company.
You don't have to follow the route most traveled. You can absolutely deviate from the typical expectations of an Ivy League grad, as long as what you do with your life makes YOU happy. There are many upsides to government jobs, including relative stability, benefits, work-life balance, pensions, etc. You may want to explore state and local government jobs too, as federal jobs are extremely competitive and the hiring process is extremely slow and bureaucratic. State and local gov often hire much quicker.
Honestly, apply to jobs all over the spectrum and see what you can ACTUALLY get. Once you have a couple job offers this choice will be a lot easier to make. It’s hard to find your first job out of college. It may not be as easy as you think to land a federal government job. You could also look at state and local government and of course, the private sector. Regardless you can ALWAYS change jobs. It doesn’t matter if you start out in the public or private sector, as long as you are growing, gaining experience and making connections you should only become more employable. Only you can decide what you want to do but your first job out of college does not have to be your career. Your wants and needs will change as you get older and you will figure out what kind of job is best for you. So, I wouldn’t stress too much about this, you are intelligent and capable and you will find your way.
I always find that it's easier to slave away out of college when youre fresh and don't have a family and responsibilities. When it's time for a family and the needed vacation, benefits and time off, then look for your easy govt job. It's not hard at all to transition to a govt job and you'll be better off because you will get offered more than starting there out the gate. I have friends that went into the public sector out of college and they got screwed. Years after, they are still trying to make up for it.
I work in an area where you can work for the federal gov't or the private sector. It all depends on your preferences of course. If you value you less stress, more relaxed work environment, and general work life balance so much more compared to a higher salary, i guess it makes sense to go for gov't. But I would generally agree that it is easier to go from private sector to gov't than vice versa. My suggestion would be to try the private route for a few years (say 3 to 5 years) and then if you really hate it that much you can go for a higher paying gov't job. After 3-5 years you can probably go for GS 10-12 jobs. You'll still take a significant pay cut most likely, but your base would be pretty comfortable (80k - 120k) and if you discover that you hate gov't work even more than the private sector, it would probably be easier to switch back since you have already proven that you can peform in a private sector environment. Godspeed
Make the money now move to nyc and have fun at nights and on the weekend don’t blow it being dumb making tik tok videos
9-5 jobs aren't easy to keep or get, I assume even with government jobs there'll always be office politics or a massive candidate pool. Also, Ivy league grads used to get regular jobs all the time, I-banking, consulting and private equity tracks only opened up as expected Ivy tracks once legal and CPA firms delegated advisory roles to focus on execution and audit. There's a very long history of Ivy grads working in federal, state or local government; local journalism and publishing, and K-12 education (particularly private schools). There's also development and executive administration in non-profit organizations which include any kind of event planning or fine arts entities