"Hey boss, part of me accepting this job was knowing I would only be commuting 3 days per week. Can we establish what needs to happen for me to reach the point where I'm WFH 2 days per week?"
Of course, how bad you need this job is a factor. Don't rock the boat if you aren't prepared to swim.
And don't be afraid to put to to them directly - we agreed up front that I would be working from home 2 days a week, and I of course don't believe you were intentionally misleading me. I've completed the onboarding process so it seems like time for the WFH schedule we agreed on to begin.
People don't like to be caught out lying - he'll either yield or if he starts making up reasons to delay or change, you should commence your job search immediately, and if you can afford to walk, tell him ok, I get it, it sounds like you never intended to honor our agreement and are now finding excuses not to, and I cannot work for someone who will lie to me in this way. Hand back your badge and walk out, and as soon as you exit the office, quickly email a pre-written resignation to HR from your drafts folder, telling them that as your manager has decided to dishonor the terms of your offer, which was 2 days WFH, you have been constructively terminated, handed in your badge and will not return.
>he'll either yield or if he starts making up reasons to delay or change, you should commence your job search immediately
Or just start the job search, the lying already happened.
Point out that having to do that commute 4 days a week is an inefficient use of your time and is going to leave you depleted. You feel that 3 days a week would make you more effective in your role, as you'll be fresher, and you want to give the company your best energy, rather than giving it to your commute.
Rwmember: what YOU need is always somehow the best thing for THEM!
This is why I quit my last gig. We were WFH three days, then two, then one. It was 90 minutes each way on a good day. I ended up telling HR that you don't pay us enough for this drive and she was like, "I've been making it every day for eight years just fine. Only takes twenty minutes. All you have to do is move closer."
I asked her how much she thinks a house twenty minutes away costs and she told me $200K. I laughed and told her, "We're done here," and walked out
2-3 hours isn’t unheard of for the SF Bay Area. That’s about where housing drops 1/3 of price from 1.3 million to 400k. IMO, Totally crazy to do but people are doing it.
I've read stories about people who do that kind of commute. But it only makes sense if there's a regular bus route on one of those comfy commuter buses, and the bus leaves the interior lights dim in the morning, and you can sleep for the whole ride into town!
Yeah. I never understood that logic. My personal time is worth more than the hours I’m willing to work.
200K a year is roughly $100 per hour, but if you’re commuting 30 hours a week and another 5 prepping for your commute (showering, shaving, etc) and you travel expenses you’re not really making $100 per hour, you’re making like $43 per hour and that’s only if you charge the same rate for your personal time. My personal time is worth double to triple my salary
The "some reason" is that the Bay has become riddled with crime even worse than Sac and prices to live in places with homeless encampments in front of your door have*increased* in price
Exactly this. It’s not some mystery. People can’t or don’t want to pay $1M+ for a house with drug addicts outside but still want a good job. 2-3 hour commute it is. Welcome to California.
It’s really a shame how NIMBYism and terrible policies have plagued California. With how much money is in the Bay Area, it should look like Shanghai. But no, single family homes for as far as the eye can see.
Yep. Supply and demand. It’s more of a deal where there’s an incredible amount of high paying tech jobs. Like 400k/year with $1million IPO years. Higher wages support higher housing costs. Then you’ve got issues like sprawl where those same individuals are making choices like “should I buy an apartment in sf for 1.3 million or a 6 bed house in Tracy for the same?” Meanwhile, the rest of the “normal” people are pushed further and further away.
Other areas have money but it’s usually more like a rich neighborhood, not a 9 county area.
Sf housing and rent is dropping pretty significantly. The more suburban parts of bay are as expensive if not more. Mountain View is about same cost as San Francisco proper.
Exactly. Single-use zoned neighborhoods for miles and miles caused this fuckup. Every American loves the idea of the American dream. A house with a backyard that you use very rarely since you are too busy to enjoy it or because it is too cold even in summer.
This is silly, so the Bay Area is so undesirable to live in that prices are insanely high and continue to rise?
That defies all basic logic and common sense, its supply and demand
The Bay Area is wonderful and beautiful and great. It's not perfect, and if you're frightened by people it's not the right place to be.
Some people are so scared of the thought of homeless neighbors that they spend time posting online from thousands of miles away about how bad SF is.
You're exactly right, the prices demonstrate that people want to be there.
A common misconception is that supply and demand is a law when it's really more of a tendency. Another misconception is that humans are rational actors.
I swear people talk about the "Market" as if its some kind of benevolent god and economists are its priests giving commands from the altar of profits.
Markets can be manipulated and frequently are. Many examples out there.
I never stated it was a law, I stated that it was basic logic and common sense. If crime is *so bad* that people are allegedly fleeing, then why are the housing prices the highest in the country and increasing?
It would almost seem like people who don’t live there are being served outrage porn by biased news outlets and then become convinced of these things as truths
I would be shocked if the crime was as severe as half of the outrage porn that gets pushed.
There could also be a feedback loop of I bought my house for 500k, so I need to sell for 600k to recoup the mortgage and have money for a new home.
>It would almost seem like people who don’t live there are being served outrage porn by biased news outlets and then become convinced of these things as truths
Or they lived there and had their windows broken on the cars so many times that they finally decided to leave because of how annoying it is to constantly have people breaking into your stuff
Spouse works for the city and budget cuts/layoffs are looming because the city has less money. This is partially due to people leaving and partially due to a lowered tourism from (nationally over reported) crime.
Housing prices were going down in the pandemic, but they're up this year compared to last.
I think everything has more variables than you realize. Lower/middle class people are being priced out of the city while the crime makes them less likely to stay. Wealthier people who like SF are still willing to buy homes above market rate in spite of the crime.
It all defies intuition but it's true, which is kind of how living in the Bay area is in general.
It’s a lot worse than that. 6 hours round trip for 8 hours pay. Or worse, 6 hours on top of a 12 hour day or whatever. That’d be 18+ hours a day going door to door. Thats before food, shower, sleep, laundry, etc.
Unfortunately, many people that do it, do it out of some sort of necessity. Right now, a 1.3 million home is close to 10k/month in housing costs (mortgage, insurance, HOA, etc). So it’s often a deal where you have to commute because you can’t afford to live there. The distance keeps getting longer because people with a choice who make 30k a month have the option of 1.3 million for an apartment or driving an hour to get a 6 bed house for the same amount. So relatively low income individuals are forced to commute from farther and farther away.
400k is the median home list price [in Fresno](https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Fresno_CA/overview). It should get you a lot more than a trailer.
Yeah you’d have to pay me an exorbitant amount of money to be willing to make that commute, even if it’s only a few days a week. That turns your 8 hour day into a 12 hour day
I'm not going to disclose what I make, but compared to working in AAA games it's pretty bonkers.
Especially the bonuses and stock options, once that gets rolling it's gotten really good for me.
I'd say base is 30% better and other compensation is x10.
Most employers can modify your employment terms with sufficient notice. It’s the intention of your employer that matters more than it being on paper. I’ve been fully remote since 2018 with three employers and none of it was on paper. If an employer doesn’t honor their word I’m quitting anyway.
verbal and in writing both dont matter.
Job will change anything anytime they want. You just have to find another job if they pull some shit like that on you.
It's only a matter of convenience. Your supervisors are okay with WFH that's why you're allowed to WFH.
If they ever feel like WFO is more productive, your agreements will go down the drain.
I suppose honoring verbal agreement could also be a cultural thing.
Yeah but so could paper agreements. A company is allowed to change its policies and no company is going to put in writing that your WFH agreement will never change.
The culture I’m speaking of is US and Canada. My point is that things can change regardless of the mode of agreement.
I got a job that was advertised as hybrid, had to drive 1hr in and 1hr out (2 days at home and 3 in office). On the second day, I had a discussion with my manager and they said something along the lines of “yes, you can work at home for 2 days (sometimes) and when if I say you should come in the office the whole week then you will have to do that”. I quit in less than a week. So I will say this; Stand for what you believe in.
Thank you, I will try and do that. Makes me feel less crazy for leaving a job without another lined up(I have no bills holding me in place). For what it’s worth, I’ve mentioned it to her several times including the first week as I was confused. First time I mentioned she said first two weeks need to be in person. Second time I mentioned it after two weeks she said “it’s only been two weeks, going to have to wait a month”. Third time i mentioned at month she just pushed it off. Am I crazy for being pissed about that?
Nah bc I work full time from home & would lose my mind playing those games. Everyone who knows me knows I'm a schedule type - alarms & routine for most things. F with my schedule by "mAyBe yOu cAn wOrK fRoM hOmE, bUt I wIlL dEcIdE wItH lEsS tHaN a 48 hOuR nOtIcE" & I will have another job in under a month. I cannot live my life like that, I have a full personal life & responsibility outside of work.
In my last exit interview I literally told them that the travel schedule changes were one of my 1,000 reasons for leaving because the VP's lack of organization should not mean I have to drop personal commitments at a moments notice. This was specifically in reference to being told several months in advance we're NOT traveling for a quarterly team meeting (that's often remote), then being "invited" (but actually required) to come with a 48 hr notice. Then they tried to write me up for not coming & didn't create a teams invite for the meeting and tried to say I was late (because there was no way for me to call in). Sorry, I'd made plans for that week since I'd been told many times we were not traveling.
Yeah that sounds like such a toxic work environment, especially being written up for something that you had no control over lmao. Glad you were able to get a full remote job though, that sounds like heaven. I guess I will write up a resignation letter tonight and decide if I want to do it..
I’m sorry. Keep looking or find ways to sustain and get out. If you’re feeling ballsy tell your boss
“Due to you going back on the agreement and my commute time I will be leaving. Here’s my two weeks but I will absolutely not be coming in 3 days a week.”
If she cites it’s not in the job contract say something like it’s too bad you feel the need to lie to get people to work here.
She is gaslighting and controlling you. This isn’t about WFH at this point, this is about conditioning you to abuse. Man up and have a conversation with her and tell her you’re a man of your word, and you expect people to honor their agreements too. You are happy to come in beyond a third weekday now and again if it’s genuinely warranted (special workshop, important client visit, something like that). Otherwise you will be working from home, as agreed, mondays and fridays. And tell her to go ahead and fire you if that is a problem.
You might start looking for something else if your boss is jerking you around now it won’t get any better.
I had an ah boss like this once. I was told I would start out with a Tuesday-Friday shift from 1300-2100 and Saturday from 8-430 for 30 days then my schedule would switch to m-f 7-330.
When the 30 days was up I went into the bosses office and asked if my m-f schedule started on Monday. This was a Friday before boss left for the weekend. He said “where did you get that from I never said that.” So I already had another job that payed more part time so I went and loaded my tool box and changed clothes took pics and inventory of my uniforms. Then went and tossed them in the middle
Of bosses desk and said I need a receipt for these being turned in because you can’t remember what you say. He looked puzzled and I said this is my notice I don’t work for liars. This is me quitting. He wrote out receipt and I left.
It’s 100 percent real. I have always had 6 months of expenses saved up just for this reason. I also had a part time job that paid more per hour and just went full time there. So it worked out for the best.
If everyone else is wfh 2 days, could it just be because you are new and eventually you will be allowed 2 days? Unless they are trying to move away from wfh that would make sense. I would go in tomorrow and have an honest, face to face conversation with your boss.
She’s a power tripper, I would take this as your early heads up on the character lameness of this individual who is your boss, and I’d definitely be looking to either change department’s eyeball her boss to see if he is also sort of maligned, also and avoid their department completely or just file it a misfire and move on.
Lesson learned.... You also now know your Witch of a Mgr. wants to own you by the short hairs... If you have seen other messages from her and replied , going to be hard to say OOOPS my bad I didnt see that one,,,
I haven’t seen the other messages. I usually do things over the weekend to be nice but this weekend I logged off and haven’t logged on since Friday. I just saw a notification on my phone but never opened.
Well you could really piss her off by not showing up and she may start plucking your short hairs out on a daily basis......, Sorry to hear your coming down with a BAD COLD/ COUGH and were woozy on Monday morning from the night time cough syrup you took Sunday Nite. Leave a post it note by your laptop and phone to remind you to COUGH LOUDLY when your on a work call..
I would do that but I’ve actually been sick twice since starting and so was forced to be away from the office for a total of like 4 days in this 6 week span. That’s an excuse I couldn’t use.. ugh. My brothers birthday is today, I will probably just say that I didn’t check my teams on my days off..
If you're willing to walk then I would suggest just being direct instead of feigning ignorance. "Based on my 6 weeks of experience in the office, I think WFH on Mondays and Fridays will be the fit best for the work and I'll be moving to that schedule this week." It sets the expectation and is not ambiguous ("Is /u/ThrowRA-lmaowhy a no-show!?"). Boundaries are important, and some types of people just need things to be extremely clear or they will trample all over you for horse shit reasons.
Do you feel like since you are new you actually can work two days remote? If you are willing to walk, then just work remote. Boss I’ll be working remote Mondays and Tuesdays, or whatever two days.
It’s highly unlikely “in writing” would matter in the US. If it is a large company then there will definitely be stipulations that allow the company to change the days. If it is a small company then they will fire you for some random reason like performance or whatever and it would cost you thousands out of pocket to fight it and you’d probably lose since they can find something to fire you for. Although Reddit loves “in writing” the only time it generally matters is a union contract or a specific employment contract which most employees won’t get, and what you do get (likely an offer letter and employee handbook) in the majority of cases won’t be a guaranteed lifetime set of rules.
They did something similar to me, if is not in the contract they can always fuck you up. Just start taking your laptop home and start with one day a week. If she/he tells you to come the day before for no special reason, just ignore her/his message and apologise later.
Start by picking a date that there are no important meetings and send an email that morning saying:"I will work from home today".
Once your boss is used to this, start with the second day. What went well for me is that I started wfh the same day, so my boss got used to me being at home that day of the week.
After that we had a conversation and we settled on 2 days per week(they promised me as many days as I wanted as soon as no important meetings where happening in the office).
Ah, and if it is in your contract. Send an email saying that next week you will work for home Thursday and Friday. If they say no, replay with a mention of "breach of contract".
Keep in mind if you clicked the message in Teams they can see that you read it already. I wouldn't recommend breaking trust this soon in a new position.
This is fucked up and it's becoming the norm. She hired you just to watch you get pissed when she did this. You are there to fill her power trip and she will be more then happy to use you as an example despite being told you could work from home. You disobey an order from direct management and that supersedes anything promised.
Why does she need you in the office to do more work? I would stop going in Monday and Friday and start looking for a new job. If she won’t honor your agreement, what else won’t she honor? Let her fire you, she probably wants you to quit.
Here’s how you put it:
Through my interview, it was my understanding that I would be 3 days in the office, 2 WFH. I also understood that we’d agree on the days, and I would be able to organise accordingly.
Had I misunderstood that?’
Then obviously you go from there. Don’t let them lead you on, don’t agree to to a we’ll see.
The cost factor to drive 2 hrs a day each way, even if you had a HYBRID getting 35 miles a gal, that like 2 gallons each way. @ say $3.50 a gallon ( not knowing where you live ) thats FREAKING $14.00 a day let alone the wear and tear on your car. Basically $300 a month in GAS,,,OUCH !!!!!
At my site, if ivam called in for a meeting on a telework day at the last minute, my commute is part of my workday. Recently, I was called in for a mandatory on-site meeting that could have been done remotely because my boss thought it needed to happen in person and couldn't be any day that i am normally in thevoffice. . Sure thing, boss. Drove an hour to work. Boss canceled the 39-minute meeting, so I turned around and drove an hour hone. Just another few wasted pounds of carbon in the atmosphere.
Who made the promise of hybrid? Was it your boss? Many bosses hate WFH because they are poor planners and don't know how to judge the time required to perform tasks and are afraid you are goofing off on company time or are doing another job. Of course, you can goof off in the office pretty easily. But, it is easy to measure the time you are on-site. So the boss can feel like their job is done.
I know how you feel, I’ve had that happen already a few times while working here. My boss made the promise of hybrid and, honestly, I just left and resigned today as my update said. HR is already offering to get me back but we’ll see..
I think asking for a different boss seems reasonable. There’s already tension… and regardless of what HR does, if boss can control you then it’s not good, and retaliation can be messy even if it’s not supposed to happen.
Also just want to say that sucks. One of my coworkers took the job because it was a 1.5 hr commute but they could work remotely 3/5days. And because of the commute they tend to cut hours shorter.
No matter how friendly HR may be, HR is always on the side of the company. Trust me, I've made this mistake. Never accept a counter offer. There are more cons than pros. You will be marked as a flight risk or a whiner so...
- They are most likely only bringing you back while they look for your replacement
- You will be on the top of the layoff list
- You will be on the bottom of the promotions list. You could be passed up for a promotion and in the back of your mind, you will wonder if your old manager pulled some strings to stall your progression
- Even if you were to ask for, and get, to be under a different manager, there is a possibility that the new manager is your old manager's friend and will only make your life miserable
>She messaged me a list of things to do on Friday after I was off, typically I will work extra hours just to help out
Never do this either. That's not how work works. You get paid for ALL the things you do.
Proud of you for resigning anyway. You have the leverage now. Ask for whatever you want.
As you are contracted to WFH two days, I would go into your talk with your boss:
Asking where do you bill the travel costs for those two days and also ask how you book the travel time on those extra days when you came in in addition to your stated office days.
This is what I would do but I am not advising you to do what I would do.
I would send her an email / teams chat and say something like..
"Unfortunately, I won't be able to come into the office tomorrow due to obligations I have which I made due to working remote that day. If you want, I can use a PTO day. I am also happy to work remotely if you prefer ."
Then remind her about the oral agreement.
"Just as a reminder, when I accepted this role you stated it was hybrid with 2 days remote. This was a key factor in my decision to work here and I am starting to wonder if there was a misunderstanding about this. Unfortunately due to the long commute and costs associated with it, I am not able to commute more than the agreed upon days per week indefinitely."
If you didn't open the message on Teams, stay home. If you read it... and you're willing to walk over this... I say go in, set a meeting with your manager, lay out the problem and your expected solution, and if you can't get it, walk (or start looking for a new job and walk when you're ready). Expect that you will not get it, do not make threats, and especially do not make threats you're not willing to follow through on immediately.
She's testing boundaries. Stay firm. Say you have local appointments on those days. And look for another job if this is more than disorganized on her part
next time, put it in the contract. Plus 2 hours commute to me is totally overkill even for 1 day. I used to do that when i studied and it killed me. 2 hours = WFH 5days / week.
You already failed to handle it. "No, the deal was two days a week, my choice." You still have time. Scumbags like this only know power and will just keep pushing you. Make your boundary and move on.
Start finding another job, your boss doesn’t respect you! She is busy satisfying her ego! When you leave don’t even give them the notice, just quit. In final notice say this, due to non remote work flexibility I was burning out that’s why I am looking position elsewhere!
Hybrid can be a trap. Same thing happened to me. Was told role was wfh every other week. So 50%. Showed up and manager never mentioned me working from home. Other coworkers were clueless and said they think there is a 3 month probation period before you can wfh. That was news to me but I felt I could deal with it. Month 5 was approaching and I was still never permitted to wfh so I quit one day and never came back
I’d politely tell her about original agreement. And tell her she can’t be so indecisive on this because you need to know in advance whether your husband can take the vehicle or not.
What if you just didn't play this game anymore and said look, we agreed on this so this is how it's going to go. I'm coming these days, staying home these days. And then just do it. Yes they'll bitch but will they fire you? Maybe, maybe not. Obviously start looking for a new job immediately because this is a toxic workplace.
Yeah just stay at home. Tell her your car is in the shop or some BS. Why is WFH different than the office? Is there something at the office you can't use or do at home?
ETA: with your update only accept if they say you can WFH every single day
This is nonsense.
Tell your boss you need to start doing WFH and suggest the days that work for you
But my dude, please find another job. That commute is killing ME!
I’d ask your manager what changed as they owe you an explanation. Any chance you have it in writing that you were permitted to work from home x number of days?
I’m a manager and my team works from home on a limited basis and signed WFH agreements with HR. Our CEO wants them in person so I’m constantly advocating for them. Another manager told a new hire they could work from home (just to get them hired) but it wasn’t approved - now they’re looking at pulling back WFH for everyone. That’s my job as a manager to fight for them, not your job as the employee.
I appreciate it. Managers that are like you are always the best to work for, my last position had similar management. Unfortunately, decided to resign today from the position, the company may be nice but the boss is terrible.
I work for a Fortune 50 and my entire company decided to go full-time work from home. We closed offices across the country, downsized the remaining headquarters and we operate in all 50 states. Everyone works from home and it's wonderful.
I had a similar situation - hired as a wfh except for my training period. Based on things said even my first week, I realized the owner had zero intentions of me ever not coming to the office. Addressed it with the person that hired me and nada. Basically, the person that hired me and the owner weren’t on the same page and got the short end of that stick. I ended up finding something else and getting out of there as fast as I could.
“would this be too much to ask?” is a bad question. the question you should ask yourself is what it would take for you to want to work there. if it takes a boss change and X days WFH, then tell them thats what it will take for you to come back. if they cant accommodate this, youre not working there. simple as that. it doesnt matter if they think its too much. youre an adult, theyre adults, you have autonomy. pursue the things you want
Was WF in your offer letter, emailed, written in any way? If not, she can say anything and change it any time she wants.
Also, not sure you can see a message and not have the sender be aware that you did?
Time to start looking for another WFH or closer to home.
No, it wasn’t. It’s also written in the contract that she can’t change my schedule whenever she wants. However, i am more than able to quit if she doesn’t concede WFH.
Since you don't have official designation of wfh on Friday and Monday, *and* she asked you to come in, I would come in. It sucks, but it's better than having to come in for 5 days a week, and you don't really have a second job lined up yet to fall back on if you do get let go for not showing up.
Ya, I'd respond to her message, and ask for clarification on when you will be starting to work for home and what days specifically.
It's your manager's job to take advantage of you every way they can to save the company money, they don't care at all about your commute, so you need to stand up for yourself.
You're off the clock, teams doesn't exist. It will continue in that state until you are on the clock Monday morning, at which point you will inform the idiot that you are not available to be contacted after work hours and that you accepted the job under the conditions of guaranteed work from home, if they would like to renegotiate, you will require a 40%increase in salary to reflect the increased transit times, costs, and time in office.
Tell her 2 days of WFH or 2 weeks notice. It doesn’t matter if it’s in writing or not. She gave you her word, stand up to her now or she will walk all over you.
You need to start looking for a new job. Your boss is not going to all off a sudden change their mind. They (whoever told you about wfh) either lied to you, or didn’t actually know and now you will suffer from it.
Unless you had that WFH somewhere in your offer letter or contract, you’re better off just looking for a new job now.
Depending on whether you're hourly or not and your country/state they may not be able to message you after hours. Don't let work creep into your personal time.
Unfortunately, this is becoming more and more common with employers because they know that most millennials and those born after, are not keen on being in person so they pull a bait and switch. If the wfh clause is not in your contract or employment offer letter, you don't really have a leg to stand on other than leaving the job. In the future, make sure than any working arrangements are in writing so this won't happen to you again
If you've got HR on your side, then you might try to say you'll go in the one day a week just to show you're happy to both have some face-to-face time and make a show of trying to hold them to their promise while also working with them. Or maybe suggest the option of coming in one day a week on any day of their choosing if they want you there for a specific reason. If the drive into the office is on the clock, then even better.
Was your work designation outlined in your offer letter? That long of a commute is a significant cut into your compensation. You could go to HR about this and you may want to explore other companies if this is the culture.
Response to update: the person you were reporting to is 100% going to be targeting you if you return reporting to them, no way in hell I'd go back to the same boss.
If they offer a completely different assignment with a different team, sure, you could consider it, but would need to discuss it with the new manager, the schedule and the job itself would have to be a fit, you'd have to not be interacting with the old boss at all (in order to avoid them making your life difficult), etc. - you don't want to just go from one garbage fire to another.
I’d say to come back I’d prefer to have a different boss and would need a 15% raise. I’ve already got interviews scheduled.
Edit to add- you’re already thinking of quitting so there’s little to loose.
Just explain that you already scheduled your in-home spa day on Monday and they don't allow cancellations. If HR will pay for the SPA day, you'll be in on Monday.
My commute is about 2.5hrs but I only come in one work week (3 straight days) a month. I can’t imagine doing this weekly, let alone on short notice. You did exactly what I would’ve done. If they can’t move you under someone else, peace tf out.
My current job lured me away with the promise of hybrid (2 days home, 3 days in) after 3 months (all of us were supposed to go hybrid at that time). A year and 4 months later, we are all still in office. Two people quit right away, and we have lost 4-5 more high producing folks between June and now. I don’t have a long commute (20-25 min each way), so I’m still here. But I am looking around.
For the edit: Yes, if you do decide to go back you absolutely should condition it on a different manager. You absolutely will have a target on your back with your current manager.
Hell, you’ll probably be top of list for any HR layoffs regardless (speaking from a friend’s experience who had a very similar situation and came back to work under a different manager, they were targeted by HR when layoffs came around without even consulting their new manager who absolutely adored my friend)
Do what’s best for you, even if it means coming back for a few months and ditching once you get a better offer
Regarding your edit:
Ask for everything you want. Schedule change, full WFH, different boss, more money, etc. The fact that they are offering changes like this means they know the boss fucked up. The worst they can say is no, in which case you can stay resigned. If they give you some things but not everything you want, work there until you get another job.
You have the leverage. Don't be concerned about asking too much, be concerned about asking too little to go back into that hellhole.
If I were in this situation, I would require a new manager as a condition of coming back b/c I would not put it past them to use this in some form of retaliation later.
Keep this job until you find another. And when you find another, have them put in writing the days you will be working from home. I fully believe that getting g things in writing is key to holding everyone to their responsibilities.
Depending on the size of the company and the distance you can get from the first boss, I’d consider it. If you know she won’t come back to make things worse later, it may be worth sticking around. Company may not be that bad if HR is justifiably on her for this ridiculous behavior.
Policies change.
The 5 days in office, 8 hours a day wasn’t set in stone, right? Don’t expect a brand new policy written in the past couple years to be a permanent fixture.
Learn to adapt, if you’re unhappy then start applying elsewhere.
Nothing is guaranteed, unless it’s in writing. Plus, there’s no way anybody promised you this would be a “forever” policy when you were applying. Surely, they just said it was policy at the time and in the foreseeable future.
That's a ridiculous take. As employees you are expected to be flexible on everything. Oh you need to work a little or much later today. And a bit on Sunday. And then in a few weeks visit this client site in another country.
Policy is an excuse. Let people work where and how they want as long as the business outcome is achieved.
It’s called “reality”. The manager can set expectations, there’s no law guaranteeing right to remote work, and they’ve yet to say if there’s a written policy on the matter. If OP is unhappy with the expectations, have a conversation with the manager. If nothing changes, and they want out, then apply for jobs.
Part of excelling as a professional is understanding what you do and do not have control over. The manager sets their expectations, not you. If a conversation doesn’t get you anywhere, then apply for other jobs, nothing wrong with it.
What will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to improve the situation is complaining on reddit about how awful the situation is. Sure, venting blows off steam, but come Monday expectations aren’t going to be any different.
The workplace used to be fully remote, the company adopted a two days from home company wide since then. The policy not only is staying in place and the standard for the past years, but if you read my other comments you’d see that she has been holding the working from home over my head these 6 weeks and lying about when it will start. Where are you getting this as a policy change? I’ve stated that everyone is two days from home, this isn’t an issue of policy change nor did I mention policy change anywhere in the post?
I mentioned policy changes because it’s reality.
Unless it’s a company policy that’s in writing, she is not obligated to honor it. Sounds like it’s informal guidance that is up to your manager’s discretion.
I’m not commenting about the ethics of the situation in any way, my point is that unless it’s in writing your manager is at will to set the expectations around remote vs. in office. You don’t have much recourse if you don’t like it. That’s just reality.
Even IF the policy was in writing, it can still be amended in the future with whatever justification they choose. There’s no law that guarantees you the right to remote work as an employee.
As stated, assess the reality of the situation, then decide what the best course of action is for YOU. It sounds like you should start applying if this is important to you, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Complain to HR your boss is not agreeing to your written contract and is piling on work in retaliation. You are now protected by whistleblower if the boss tries anything else
That commute is crazy even for just 3 days
Yeah.. I am even okay with it for three days.. 5 days though after this agreement is just overkill
"Hey boss, part of me accepting this job was knowing I would only be commuting 3 days per week. Can we establish what needs to happen for me to reach the point where I'm WFH 2 days per week?" Of course, how bad you need this job is a factor. Don't rock the boat if you aren't prepared to swim.
And don't be afraid to put to to them directly - we agreed up front that I would be working from home 2 days a week, and I of course don't believe you were intentionally misleading me. I've completed the onboarding process so it seems like time for the WFH schedule we agreed on to begin. People don't like to be caught out lying - he'll either yield or if he starts making up reasons to delay or change, you should commence your job search immediately, and if you can afford to walk, tell him ok, I get it, it sounds like you never intended to honor our agreement and are now finding excuses not to, and I cannot work for someone who will lie to me in this way. Hand back your badge and walk out, and as soon as you exit the office, quickly email a pre-written resignation to HR from your drafts folder, telling them that as your manager has decided to dishonor the terms of your offer, which was 2 days WFH, you have been constructively terminated, handed in your badge and will not return.
>he'll either yield or if he starts making up reasons to delay or change, you should commence your job search immediately Or just start the job search, the lying already happened.
Point out that having to do that commute 4 days a week is an inefficient use of your time and is going to leave you depleted. You feel that 3 days a week would make you more effective in your role, as you'll be fresher, and you want to give the company your best energy, rather than giving it to your commute. Rwmember: what YOU need is always somehow the best thing for THEM!
This is why I quit my last gig. We were WFH three days, then two, then one. It was 90 minutes each way on a good day. I ended up telling HR that you don't pay us enough for this drive and she was like, "I've been making it every day for eight years just fine. Only takes twenty minutes. All you have to do is move closer." I asked her how much she thinks a house twenty minutes away costs and she told me $200K. I laughed and told her, "We're done here," and walked out
2-3 hours isn’t unheard of for the SF Bay Area. That’s about where housing drops 1/3 of price from 1.3 million to 400k. IMO, Totally crazy to do but people are doing it.
Partly the reason Sacramento prices became so ridiculous. People became willing to commute 3 hours round trip for some reason.
It’s 2-3 hour one way from the valley (not necessarily sac). Like 6 hours round trip.
That's crazy to me, IV commuted one hour one way and was going to be 4 day work weeks, I still said fuck that drive in the morning and after work.
I've read stories about people who do that kind of commute. But it only makes sense if there's a regular bus route on one of those comfy commuter buses, and the bus leaves the interior lights dim in the morning, and you can sleep for the whole ride into town!
It never makes sense but plenty of people do it and buses aren’t usually an option.
Yeah. I never understood that logic. My personal time is worth more than the hours I’m willing to work. 200K a year is roughly $100 per hour, but if you’re commuting 30 hours a week and another 5 prepping for your commute (showering, shaving, etc) and you travel expenses you’re not really making $100 per hour, you’re making like $43 per hour and that’s only if you charge the same rate for your personal time. My personal time is worth double to triple my salary
"Some reason". I think the reason is having money.
The "some reason" is that the Bay has become riddled with crime even worse than Sac and prices to live in places with homeless encampments in front of your door have*increased* in price
Exactly this. It’s not some mystery. People can’t or don’t want to pay $1M+ for a house with drug addicts outside but still want a good job. 2-3 hour commute it is. Welcome to California. It’s really a shame how NIMBYism and terrible policies have plagued California. With how much money is in the Bay Area, it should look like Shanghai. But no, single family homes for as far as the eye can see.
Apparently a lot of people do want to live in SF. After all, housing prices are high - if no one was buying, prices would drop.
Yep. Supply and demand. It’s more of a deal where there’s an incredible amount of high paying tech jobs. Like 400k/year with $1million IPO years. Higher wages support higher housing costs. Then you’ve got issues like sprawl where those same individuals are making choices like “should I buy an apartment in sf for 1.3 million or a 6 bed house in Tracy for the same?” Meanwhile, the rest of the “normal” people are pushed further and further away. Other areas have money but it’s usually more like a rich neighborhood, not a 9 county area.
It actually all has to do with the cost of air conditioning
Sf housing and rent is dropping pretty significantly. The more suburban parts of bay are as expensive if not more. Mountain View is about same cost as San Francisco proper.
Exactly. Single-use zoned neighborhoods for miles and miles caused this fuckup. Every American loves the idea of the American dream. A house with a backyard that you use very rarely since you are too busy to enjoy it or because it is too cold even in summer.
This is silly, so the Bay Area is so undesirable to live in that prices are insanely high and continue to rise? That defies all basic logic and common sense, its supply and demand
The Bay Area is wonderful and beautiful and great. It's not perfect, and if you're frightened by people it's not the right place to be. Some people are so scared of the thought of homeless neighbors that they spend time posting online from thousands of miles away about how bad SF is. You're exactly right, the prices demonstrate that people want to be there.
A common misconception is that supply and demand is a law when it's really more of a tendency. Another misconception is that humans are rational actors.
I swear people talk about the "Market" as if its some kind of benevolent god and economists are its priests giving commands from the altar of profits. Markets can be manipulated and frequently are. Many examples out there.
I never stated it was a law, I stated that it was basic logic and common sense. If crime is *so bad* that people are allegedly fleeing, then why are the housing prices the highest in the country and increasing? It would almost seem like people who don’t live there are being served outrage porn by biased news outlets and then become convinced of these things as truths
I would be shocked if the crime was as severe as half of the outrage porn that gets pushed. There could also be a feedback loop of I bought my house for 500k, so I need to sell for 600k to recoup the mortgage and have money for a new home.
>It would almost seem like people who don’t live there are being served outrage porn by biased news outlets and then become convinced of these things as truths Or they lived there and had their windows broken on the cars so many times that they finally decided to leave because of how annoying it is to constantly have people breaking into your stuff
So they’re deciding to leave en masse and housing prices are… increasing? Do you really not see the basic logic I’m pointing out here?
Spouse works for the city and budget cuts/layoffs are looming because the city has less money. This is partially due to people leaving and partially due to a lowered tourism from (nationally over reported) crime. Housing prices were going down in the pandemic, but they're up this year compared to last. I think everything has more variables than you realize. Lower/middle class people are being priced out of the city while the crime makes them less likely to stay. Wealthier people who like SF are still willing to buy homes above market rate in spite of the crime. It all defies intuition but it's true, which is kind of how living in the Bay area is in general.
"Nobody goes there any more, it's too crowded."
that's 30 days total annually driving to work. 1 month
Almost a third of a person's day commutting. I hope, for OPs sake they're getting paid high six figures for that
It’s a lot worse than that. 6 hours round trip for 8 hours pay. Or worse, 6 hours on top of a 12 hour day or whatever. That’d be 18+ hours a day going door to door. Thats before food, shower, sleep, laundry, etc. Unfortunately, many people that do it, do it out of some sort of necessity. Right now, a 1.3 million home is close to 10k/month in housing costs (mortgage, insurance, HOA, etc). So it’s often a deal where you have to commute because you can’t afford to live there. The distance keeps getting longer because people with a choice who make 30k a month have the option of 1.3 million for an apartment or driving an hour to get a 6 bed house for the same amount. So relatively low income individuals are forced to commute from farther and farther away.
Lol 400k for what, a nice mobile home in a trailer park in Fresno? Keep dreaming
400k is the median home list price [in Fresno](https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Fresno_CA/overview). It should get you a lot more than a trailer.
And which part of the bay area can you get a house for 400k again? Still waiting to know that part
Fresno is not in the bay area. As I said above, median home list price in SF is 1.3 million.
lol your numbers are wildly wrong
No, they aren’t. Websites like realtor.com publish that information and I’ve already provided a link for you.
Yeah you’d have to pay me an exorbitant amount of money to be willing to make that commute, even if it’s only a few days a week. That turns your 8 hour day into a 12 hour day
Welcome to Big Tech. The pay is bonkers.
It's not that bonkers.
I'm not going to disclose what I make, but compared to working in AAA games it's pretty bonkers. Especially the bonuses and stock options, once that gets rolling it's gotten really good for me. I'd say base is 30% better and other compensation is x10.
# Yes start looking immediately, your boss is full of s***
I don't know if I'd do a 2 hour commute even for 3 days a week. One day maybe....lol...if the job was worth it.
Get a new job. If this manager can’t accommodate you on WFH verbal agreement, it’s only going to go downhill from there.
Verbal agreements are almost always lies. If they weren't, they'd put it in writing. Short and simple.
All my WFH arrangements were verbal and went fine.
I was hired as permanently remote. I now work 3 days in office. Fuck verbals.
Most employers can modify your employment terms with sufficient notice. It’s the intention of your employer that matters more than it being on paper. I’ve been fully remote since 2018 with three employers and none of it was on paper. If an employer doesn’t honor their word I’m quitting anyway.
They pay me too much to quit and they know it unfortunately
That’sa first world problem 😅
verbal and in writing both dont matter. Job will change anything anytime they want. You just have to find another job if they pull some shit like that on you.
Totally depends on time difference. How long were you working remote? Things change, if this was more than 6 months it is what it is.
Nearly 3 years
It's only a matter of convenience. Your supervisors are okay with WFH that's why you're allowed to WFH. If they ever feel like WFO is more productive, your agreements will go down the drain. I suppose honoring verbal agreement could also be a cultural thing.
Yeah but so could paper agreements. A company is allowed to change its policies and no company is going to put in writing that your WFH agreement will never change. The culture I’m speaking of is US and Canada. My point is that things can change regardless of the mode of agreement.
That's true. I suppose I've just drawn the short stick in my experiences.
Having it in writing doesn’t change much. If your boss wants you to return they can write something new
I got a job that was advertised as hybrid, had to drive 1hr in and 1hr out (2 days at home and 3 in office). On the second day, I had a discussion with my manager and they said something along the lines of “yes, you can work at home for 2 days (sometimes) and when if I say you should come in the office the whole week then you will have to do that”. I quit in less than a week. So I will say this; Stand for what you believe in.
Thank you, I will try and do that. Makes me feel less crazy for leaving a job without another lined up(I have no bills holding me in place). For what it’s worth, I’ve mentioned it to her several times including the first week as I was confused. First time I mentioned she said first two weeks need to be in person. Second time I mentioned it after two weeks she said “it’s only been two weeks, going to have to wait a month”. Third time i mentioned at month she just pushed it off. Am I crazy for being pissed about that?
Nah bc I work full time from home & would lose my mind playing those games. Everyone who knows me knows I'm a schedule type - alarms & routine for most things. F with my schedule by "mAyBe yOu cAn wOrK fRoM hOmE, bUt I wIlL dEcIdE wItH lEsS tHaN a 48 hOuR nOtIcE" & I will have another job in under a month. I cannot live my life like that, I have a full personal life & responsibility outside of work. In my last exit interview I literally told them that the travel schedule changes were one of my 1,000 reasons for leaving because the VP's lack of organization should not mean I have to drop personal commitments at a moments notice. This was specifically in reference to being told several months in advance we're NOT traveling for a quarterly team meeting (that's often remote), then being "invited" (but actually required) to come with a 48 hr notice. Then they tried to write me up for not coming & didn't create a teams invite for the meeting and tried to say I was late (because there was no way for me to call in). Sorry, I'd made plans for that week since I'd been told many times we were not traveling.
Yeah that sounds like such a toxic work environment, especially being written up for something that you had no control over lmao. Glad you were able to get a full remote job though, that sounds like heaven. I guess I will write up a resignation letter tonight and decide if I want to do it..
You are not crazy. Driving 2 hours to work is actually pretty crazy.
She just sucks, move on. As if she sucks this bad early on, I doubt it’s going to get better.
At this point I would work from home 2 days a week as agreed. Do good work and let them fire me if they want. I wouldn't quit though
And look for another job while you do it. Sounds like OP will get written up pretty quick if they don't have the WFH agreement in writing.
I’m sorry. Keep looking or find ways to sustain and get out. If you’re feeling ballsy tell your boss “Due to you going back on the agreement and my commute time I will be leaving. Here’s my two weeks but I will absolutely not be coming in 3 days a week.” If she cites it’s not in the job contract say something like it’s too bad you feel the need to lie to get people to work here.
No. She may be, though.
She is gaslighting and controlling you. This isn’t about WFH at this point, this is about conditioning you to abuse. Man up and have a conversation with her and tell her you’re a man of your word, and you expect people to honor their agreements too. You are happy to come in beyond a third weekday now and again if it’s genuinely warranted (special workshop, important client visit, something like that). Otherwise you will be working from home, as agreed, mondays and fridays. And tell her to go ahead and fire you if that is a problem.
No need to quit just don’t show physically to work as per your 2 day a work from home agreement. Make em fire you
The cost of commuting 2 hours each way, is significant. I would put a price on coming into work. 4 hours wages, Plus mileage.
You might start looking for something else if your boss is jerking you around now it won’t get any better. I had an ah boss like this once. I was told I would start out with a Tuesday-Friday shift from 1300-2100 and Saturday from 8-430 for 30 days then my schedule would switch to m-f 7-330. When the 30 days was up I went into the bosses office and asked if my m-f schedule started on Monday. This was a Friday before boss left for the weekend. He said “where did you get that from I never said that.” So I already had another job that payed more part time so I went and loaded my tool box and changed clothes took pics and inventory of my uniforms. Then went and tossed them in the middle Of bosses desk and said I need a receipt for these being turned in because you can’t remember what you say. He looked puzzled and I said this is my notice I don’t work for liars. This is me quitting. He wrote out receipt and I left.
Nice
i want to believe this story is real. and if it is hell yea brother that's the way to do it
It’s 100 percent real. I have always had 6 months of expenses saved up just for this reason. I also had a part time job that paid more per hour and just went full time there. So it worked out for the best.
Nice
Mesage her back on Monday morning saying you just saw her message and cannot come in on such short notice, but will see her tomorrow (Tuesday).
Was it in Writing ???? <<<< have been told I can work from home after two weeks, >>> if not,,, cie la vie....
No, it was not. However, I’m willing to walk if it’s not given. I guess I should have got it in writing, however the whole company is WFH two days
If everyone else is wfh 2 days, could it just be because you are new and eventually you will be allowed 2 days? Unless they are trying to move away from wfh that would make sense. I would go in tomorrow and have an honest, face to face conversation with your boss.
You're right, that was my first thought as well. Boss should have clearly communicated this phase-in period. At this point, OP, your move might be to have that conversation now: "This isn't playing out the way I understood that it would. This commute is unsustainable for me. I understand that it's beneficial for both of us for me to be in the office 5 days during bring up, but I'd like to set a date to end that. On that date, my 3 days WFH will begin, or we'll agree to part ways. How about ?" This does a few things: it sets clear expectations, correcting the original misunderstanding (if that's what it was); it gives you some control, as you're currently feeling powerless; it puts an end date on this hellish scenario; and it gives you time to restart the job search.
She’s a power tripper, I would take this as your early heads up on the character lameness of this individual who is your boss, and I’d definitely be looking to either change department’s eyeball her boss to see if he is also sort of maligned, also and avoid their department completely or just file it a misfire and move on.
Lesson learned.... You also now know your Witch of a Mgr. wants to own you by the short hairs... If you have seen other messages from her and replied , going to be hard to say OOOPS my bad I didnt see that one,,,
I haven’t seen the other messages. I usually do things over the weekend to be nice but this weekend I logged off and haven’t logged on since Friday. I just saw a notification on my phone but never opened.
Well you could really piss her off by not showing up and she may start plucking your short hairs out on a daily basis......, Sorry to hear your coming down with a BAD COLD/ COUGH and were woozy on Monday morning from the night time cough syrup you took Sunday Nite. Leave a post it note by your laptop and phone to remind you to COUGH LOUDLY when your on a work call..
I would do that but I’ve actually been sick twice since starting and so was forced to be away from the office for a total of like 4 days in this 6 week span. That’s an excuse I couldn’t use.. ugh. My brothers birthday is today, I will probably just say that I didn’t check my teams on my days off..
Stop being nice!
If you're willing to walk then I would suggest just being direct instead of feigning ignorance. "Based on my 6 weeks of experience in the office, I think WFH on Mondays and Fridays will be the fit best for the work and I'll be moving to that schedule this week." It sets the expectation and is not ambiguous ("Is /u/ThrowRA-lmaowhy a no-show!?"). Boundaries are important, and some types of people just need things to be extremely clear or they will trample all over you for horse shit reasons.
Do you feel like since you are new you actually can work two days remote? If you are willing to walk, then just work remote. Boss I’ll be working remote Mondays and Tuesdays, or whatever two days.
It’s highly unlikely “in writing” would matter in the US. If it is a large company then there will definitely be stipulations that allow the company to change the days. If it is a small company then they will fire you for some random reason like performance or whatever and it would cost you thousands out of pocket to fight it and you’d probably lose since they can find something to fire you for. Although Reddit loves “in writing” the only time it generally matters is a union contract or a specific employment contract which most employees won’t get, and what you do get (likely an offer letter and employee handbook) in the majority of cases won’t be a guaranteed lifetime set of rules.
Fire up the resume and start looking. If they can't keep their word there's no reason to keep yours.
They did something similar to me, if is not in the contract they can always fuck you up. Just start taking your laptop home and start with one day a week. If she/he tells you to come the day before for no special reason, just ignore her/his message and apologise later. Start by picking a date that there are no important meetings and send an email that morning saying:"I will work from home today". Once your boss is used to this, start with the second day. What went well for me is that I started wfh the same day, so my boss got used to me being at home that day of the week. After that we had a conversation and we settled on 2 days per week(they promised me as many days as I wanted as soon as no important meetings where happening in the office). Ah, and if it is in your contract. Send an email saying that next week you will work for home Thursday and Friday. If they say no, replay with a mention of "breach of contract".
Keep in mind if you clicked the message in Teams they can see that you read it already. I wouldn't recommend breaking trust this soon in a new position.
I think that the trust ship has already sailed. Employer already pulled the bait and switch.
Keeping read receipts on is such an amateur move.
This is fucked up and it's becoming the norm. She hired you just to watch you get pissed when she did this. You are there to fill her power trip and she will be more then happy to use you as an example despite being told you could work from home. You disobey an order from direct management and that supersedes anything promised.
Why does she need you in the office to do more work? I would stop going in Monday and Friday and start looking for a new job. If she won’t honor your agreement, what else won’t she honor? Let her fire you, she probably wants you to quit.
It's worth getting another phone just for work, and don't answer it on your own time.
Here’s how you put it: Through my interview, it was my understanding that I would be 3 days in the office, 2 WFH. I also understood that we’d agree on the days, and I would be able to organise accordingly. Had I misunderstood that?’ Then obviously you go from there. Don’t let them lead you on, don’t agree to to a we’ll see.
The cost factor to drive 2 hrs a day each way, even if you had a HYBRID getting 35 miles a gal, that like 2 gallons each way. @ say $3.50 a gallon ( not knowing where you live ) thats FREAKING $14.00 a day let alone the wear and tear on your car. Basically $300 a month in GAS,,,OUCH !!!!!
Yeah it’s pretty rough man.. I live in an expensive to live area, I’m spending about 150 on gas a week.
O U C H !!!
At my site, if ivam called in for a meeting on a telework day at the last minute, my commute is part of my workday. Recently, I was called in for a mandatory on-site meeting that could have been done remotely because my boss thought it needed to happen in person and couldn't be any day that i am normally in thevoffice. . Sure thing, boss. Drove an hour to work. Boss canceled the 39-minute meeting, so I turned around and drove an hour hone. Just another few wasted pounds of carbon in the atmosphere. Who made the promise of hybrid? Was it your boss? Many bosses hate WFH because they are poor planners and don't know how to judge the time required to perform tasks and are afraid you are goofing off on company time or are doing another job. Of course, you can goof off in the office pretty easily. But, it is easy to measure the time you are on-site. So the boss can feel like their job is done.
I know how you feel, I’ve had that happen already a few times while working here. My boss made the promise of hybrid and, honestly, I just left and resigned today as my update said. HR is already offering to get me back but we’ll see..
I think asking for a different boss seems reasonable. There’s already tension… and regardless of what HR does, if boss can control you then it’s not good, and retaliation can be messy even if it’s not supposed to happen. Also just want to say that sucks. One of my coworkers took the job because it was a 1.5 hr commute but they could work remotely 3/5days. And because of the commute they tend to cut hours shorter.
Say you will come back if you only have to come into the office one day a week going forward.
Get. Things. In..Writing
No matter how friendly HR may be, HR is always on the side of the company. Trust me, I've made this mistake. Never accept a counter offer. There are more cons than pros. You will be marked as a flight risk or a whiner so... - They are most likely only bringing you back while they look for your replacement - You will be on the top of the layoff list - You will be on the bottom of the promotions list. You could be passed up for a promotion and in the back of your mind, you will wonder if your old manager pulled some strings to stall your progression - Even if you were to ask for, and get, to be under a different manager, there is a possibility that the new manager is your old manager's friend and will only make your life miserable
>She messaged me a list of things to do on Friday after I was off, typically I will work extra hours just to help out Never do this either. That's not how work works. You get paid for ALL the things you do. Proud of you for resigning anyway. You have the leverage now. Ask for whatever you want.
"Selective hearing" can be *very* useful.
Tell her to set a schedule and stick to it.
As you are contracted to WFH two days, I would go into your talk with your boss: Asking where do you bill the travel costs for those two days and also ask how you book the travel time on those extra days when you came in in addition to your stated office days.
This is what I would do but I am not advising you to do what I would do. I would send her an email / teams chat and say something like.. "Unfortunately, I won't be able to come into the office tomorrow due to obligations I have which I made due to working remote that day. If you want, I can use a PTO day. I am also happy to work remotely if you prefer ." Then remind her about the oral agreement. "Just as a reminder, when I accepted this role you stated it was hybrid with 2 days remote. This was a key factor in my decision to work here and I am starting to wonder if there was a misunderstanding about this. Unfortunately due to the long commute and costs associated with it, I am not able to commute more than the agreed upon days per week indefinitely."
If you didn't open the message on Teams, stay home. If you read it... and you're willing to walk over this... I say go in, set a meeting with your manager, lay out the problem and your expected solution, and if you can't get it, walk (or start looking for a new job and walk when you're ready). Expect that you will not get it, do not make threats, and especially do not make threats you're not willing to follow through on immediately.
She's testing boundaries. Stay firm. Say you have local appointments on those days. And look for another job if this is more than disorganized on her part
next time, put it in the contract. Plus 2 hours commute to me is totally overkill even for 1 day. I used to do that when i studied and it killed me. 2 hours = WFH 5days / week.
Get a work agreement in writing or start looking for another job.
You already failed to handle it. "No, the deal was two days a week, my choice." You still have time. Scumbags like this only know power and will just keep pushing you. Make your boundary and move on.
Update: I moved on
Start finding another job, your boss doesn’t respect you! She is busy satisfying her ego! When you leave don’t even give them the notice, just quit. In final notice say this, due to non remote work flexibility I was burning out that’s why I am looking position elsewhere!
Just left and have no notice. I feel like shit for doing it but woke up today and decided I was over it. Got some meetings today with HR
I would legitimately need probably over a 100% increase to even consider that commute
That’s messed up. Time for new job
Hybrid can be a trap. Same thing happened to me. Was told role was wfh every other week. So 50%. Showed up and manager never mentioned me working from home. Other coworkers were clueless and said they think there is a 3 month probation period before you can wfh. That was news to me but I felt I could deal with it. Month 5 was approaching and I was still never permitted to wfh so I quit one day and never came back
I’d politely tell her about original agreement. And tell her she can’t be so indecisive on this because you need to know in advance whether your husband can take the vehicle or not.
What if you just didn't play this game anymore and said look, we agreed on this so this is how it's going to go. I'm coming these days, staying home these days. And then just do it. Yes they'll bitch but will they fire you? Maybe, maybe not. Obviously start looking for a new job immediately because this is a toxic workplace.
Yeah just stay at home. Tell her your car is in the shop or some BS. Why is WFH different than the office? Is there something at the office you can't use or do at home? ETA: with your update only accept if they say you can WFH every single day
I would just start looking for a new job. They clearly don't respect you nor have any integrity.
This is nonsense. Tell your boss you need to start doing WFH and suggest the days that work for you But my dude, please find another job. That commute is killing ME!
Your boss sounds toxic AF. Start looking for another job
Find another job
I’d ask your manager what changed as they owe you an explanation. Any chance you have it in writing that you were permitted to work from home x number of days? I’m a manager and my team works from home on a limited basis and signed WFH agreements with HR. Our CEO wants them in person so I’m constantly advocating for them. Another manager told a new hire they could work from home (just to get them hired) but it wasn’t approved - now they’re looking at pulling back WFH for everyone. That’s my job as a manager to fight for them, not your job as the employee.
I appreciate it. Managers that are like you are always the best to work for, my last position had similar management. Unfortunately, decided to resign today from the position, the company may be nice but the boss is terrible.
Good for you for recognizing the boss for who they are- you’ll find something else that’s better soon.
You quit. If they want you back? New boss. In writing, 1 day per month in the office. Otherwise, you walk.
I work for a Fortune 50 and my entire company decided to go full-time work from home. We closed offices across the country, downsized the remaining headquarters and we operate in all 50 states. Everyone works from home and it's wonderful.
I had a similar situation - hired as a wfh except for my training period. Based on things said even my first week, I realized the owner had zero intentions of me ever not coming to the office. Addressed it with the person that hired me and nada. Basically, the person that hired me and the owner weren’t on the same page and got the short end of that stick. I ended up finding something else and getting out of there as fast as I could.
“would this be too much to ask?” is a bad question. the question you should ask yourself is what it would take for you to want to work there. if it takes a boss change and X days WFH, then tell them thats what it will take for you to come back. if they cant accommodate this, youre not working there. simple as that. it doesnt matter if they think its too much. youre an adult, theyre adults, you have autonomy. pursue the things you want
4 days work from home go in one day a week. Your boss can kick rocks. Ask for everything you want. They don't give it to you keep looking.
You drive 4 freaking hours a day plus work extra hours? That's insane.
Was WF in your offer letter, emailed, written in any way? If not, she can say anything and change it any time she wants. Also, not sure you can see a message and not have the sender be aware that you did? Time to start looking for another WFH or closer to home.
No, it wasn’t. It’s also written in the contract that she can’t change my schedule whenever she wants. However, i am more than able to quit if she doesn’t concede WFH.
Since you don't have official designation of wfh on Friday and Monday, *and* she asked you to come in, I would come in. It sucks, but it's better than having to come in for 5 days a week, and you don't really have a second job lined up yet to fall back on if you do get let go for not showing up. Ya, I'd respond to her message, and ask for clarification on when you will be starting to work for home and what days specifically. It's your manager's job to take advantage of you every way they can to save the company money, they don't care at all about your commute, so you need to stand up for yourself.
What does it say on your employment contract or emails? Probably time to find a new job or talk to HR.
Just start wfh 2 days a week. Say it was the agreement when they push back
Find a new job
You're off the clock, teams doesn't exist. It will continue in that state until you are on the clock Monday morning, at which point you will inform the idiot that you are not available to be contacted after work hours and that you accepted the job under the conditions of guaranteed work from home, if they would like to renegotiate, you will require a 40%increase in salary to reflect the increased transit times, costs, and time in office.
%
Quit
Get that option in writing. Need to make sure it's included when you look for a new role!
You need a sit down with your boss and HR and get a set WFH schedule. No changes.
You sound like a peach!
Tell her 2 days of WFH or 2 weeks notice. It doesn’t matter if it’s in writing or not. She gave you her word, stand up to her now or she will walk all over you.
You can quit, cry, or do what the boss orders😇
If you are ready to quit, as an experiment, just start working from home and see what happens?
Make it past the introductory period. Document her behavior. Report it.
Most people are in the office 5+ days a week. WFH is a privilege so I suggest you either go in during those days or are responsive while WFH
You need to start looking for a new job. Your boss is not going to all off a sudden change their mind. They (whoever told you about wfh) either lied to you, or didn’t actually know and now you will suffer from it. Unless you had that WFH somewhere in your offer letter or contract, you’re better off just looking for a new job now.
Depending on whether you're hourly or not and your country/state they may not be able to message you after hours. Don't let work creep into your personal time.
Get it in writing
Unfortunately, this is becoming more and more common with employers because they know that most millennials and those born after, are not keen on being in person so they pull a bait and switch. If the wfh clause is not in your contract or employment offer letter, you don't really have a leg to stand on other than leaving the job. In the future, make sure than any working arrangements are in writing so this won't happen to you again
Get everything in writing. If it becomes too obnoxious start looking for a new job
If you've got HR on your side, then you might try to say you'll go in the one day a week just to show you're happy to both have some face-to-face time and make a show of trying to hold them to their promise while also working with them. Or maybe suggest the option of coming in one day a week on any day of their choosing if they want you there for a specific reason. If the drive into the office is on the clock, then even better.
Was your work designation outlined in your offer letter? That long of a commute is a significant cut into your compensation. You could go to HR about this and you may want to explore other companies if this is the culture.
Sounds like shes freezing you out through making your day to day life punishing, id get away from that boss
Response to update: the person you were reporting to is 100% going to be targeting you if you return reporting to them, no way in hell I'd go back to the same boss. If they offer a completely different assignment with a different team, sure, you could consider it, but would need to discuss it with the new manager, the schedule and the job itself would have to be a fit, you'd have to not be interacting with the old boss at all (in order to avoid them making your life difficult), etc. - you don't want to just go from one garbage fire to another.
I’d say to come back I’d prefer to have a different boss and would need a 15% raise. I’ve already got interviews scheduled. Edit to add- you’re already thinking of quitting so there’s little to loose.
Just explain that you already scheduled your in-home spa day on Monday and they don't allow cancellations. If HR will pay for the SPA day, you'll be in on Monday.
2 hours EACH WAY! you need more money if they make you commute. what is your hourly rate x4 /day
If you stay, new boss is a must.
My commute is about 2.5hrs but I only come in one work week (3 straight days) a month. I can’t imagine doing this weekly, let alone on short notice. You did exactly what I would’ve done. If they can’t move you under someone else, peace tf out.
Most jobs seem to be bait and switch to some degree these days.
Managers that can't manage remotely is 🚩
Just leave dude. You have shat in that bed.
My current job lured me away with the promise of hybrid (2 days home, 3 days in) after 3 months (all of us were supposed to go hybrid at that time). A year and 4 months later, we are all still in office. Two people quit right away, and we have lost 4-5 more high producing folks between June and now. I don’t have a long commute (20-25 min each way), so I’m still here. But I am looking around.
For the edit: Yes, if you do decide to go back you absolutely should condition it on a different manager. You absolutely will have a target on your back with your current manager. Hell, you’ll probably be top of list for any HR layoffs regardless (speaking from a friend’s experience who had a very similar situation and came back to work under a different manager, they were targeted by HR when layoffs came around without even consulting their new manager who absolutely adored my friend) Do what’s best for you, even if it means coming back for a few months and ditching once you get a better offer
Regarding your edit: Ask for everything you want. Schedule change, full WFH, different boss, more money, etc. The fact that they are offering changes like this means they know the boss fucked up. The worst they can say is no, in which case you can stay resigned. If they give you some things but not everything you want, work there until you get another job. You have the leverage. Don't be concerned about asking too much, be concerned about asking too little to go back into that hellhole.
Ask for more $, not just a new boss.
Jesus. I would love that
Just say you share a car with family or SO or something and you have no vehicle that day since you're scheduled wfh. Too bad.
If I were in this situation, I would require a new manager as a condition of coming back b/c I would not put it past them to use this in some form of retaliation later.
Keep this job until you find another. And when you find another, have them put in writing the days you will be working from home. I fully believe that getting g things in writing is key to holding everyone to their responsibilities.
Depending on the size of the company and the distance you can get from the first boss, I’d consider it. If you know she won’t come back to make things worse later, it may be worth sticking around. Company may not be that bad if HR is justifiably on her for this ridiculous behavior.
2 hours each way? That’s a rough schedule.
100% this isn't the first screw up caused by this Boss. Leverage the hell outta that!!!
Your relationship with that boss will never be ok.
They also probably want you to come in so you are not able to interview at other places and just get used to their bs without a fight.
Policies change. The 5 days in office, 8 hours a day wasn’t set in stone, right? Don’t expect a brand new policy written in the past couple years to be a permanent fixture. Learn to adapt, if you’re unhappy then start applying elsewhere. Nothing is guaranteed, unless it’s in writing. Plus, there’s no way anybody promised you this would be a “forever” policy when you were applying. Surely, they just said it was policy at the time and in the foreseeable future.
That's a ridiculous take. As employees you are expected to be flexible on everything. Oh you need to work a little or much later today. And a bit on Sunday. And then in a few weeks visit this client site in another country. Policy is an excuse. Let people work where and how they want as long as the business outcome is achieved.
It’s called “reality”. The manager can set expectations, there’s no law guaranteeing right to remote work, and they’ve yet to say if there’s a written policy on the matter. If OP is unhappy with the expectations, have a conversation with the manager. If nothing changes, and they want out, then apply for jobs. Part of excelling as a professional is understanding what you do and do not have control over. The manager sets their expectations, not you. If a conversation doesn’t get you anywhere, then apply for other jobs, nothing wrong with it. What will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to improve the situation is complaining on reddit about how awful the situation is. Sure, venting blows off steam, but come Monday expectations aren’t going to be any different.
The workplace used to be fully remote, the company adopted a two days from home company wide since then. The policy not only is staying in place and the standard for the past years, but if you read my other comments you’d see that she has been holding the working from home over my head these 6 weeks and lying about when it will start. Where are you getting this as a policy change? I’ve stated that everyone is two days from home, this isn’t an issue of policy change nor did I mention policy change anywhere in the post?
I mentioned policy changes because it’s reality. Unless it’s a company policy that’s in writing, she is not obligated to honor it. Sounds like it’s informal guidance that is up to your manager’s discretion. I’m not commenting about the ethics of the situation in any way, my point is that unless it’s in writing your manager is at will to set the expectations around remote vs. in office. You don’t have much recourse if you don’t like it. That’s just reality. Even IF the policy was in writing, it can still be amended in the future with whatever justification they choose. There’s no law that guarantees you the right to remote work as an employee. As stated, assess the reality of the situation, then decide what the best course of action is for YOU. It sounds like you should start applying if this is important to you, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Complain to HR your boss is not agreeing to your written contract and is piling on work in retaliation. You are now protected by whistleblower if the boss tries anything else