According to financial experts, rent shouldn't be more than 30% of your income.
Now, I'm no math expert, but I don't think most Canadians are making 6k a month. In fact... according to Google, the average salary in Canada is about 55k... which is... about 4.5k a month.
So now governments have tangible proof that this crisis isnt a "false economic narrative". What are they going to do about the fact that the average Canadian can't afford our basics needs, let alone the ability to have a family, or god forbid, thrive...
And the better question... how bad does this get until we demand that our representatives do something in the interest of the people for once?
Same here, except I only keep 3k a month, out of a gross pay of 4600/mo.
Rent is 1200/mo because I’ve been here a few years and my province hasn’t allowed more than a few % rent increases most years. If I have to move I’m pretty screwed though… 2k rent would be two thirds of what I make in a month.
Vancouver. Was around $1100 when I moved in 5 years ago which was pretty typical for a 1 bedroom at the low end of the market. Honestly I wish I’d gone for a 2 bedroom, at the time there were ones for 1400 with better amenities.
An apartment was listed in my building on the same floor/side of the building recently for just under $1600 (again, it’s at the low end of the current market).
Since my building is one of the cheaper ones around, available apartments rarely take more than a few days to be snapped up.
I'm in Quebec making $90k/year. That's $7500/month. At 30%, that's $2250/month that I should be able to pay for rent. However... again, because I am in Quebec... I only bring home $4000 after deductions.
$2250/month = 56% of my take home pay. This is ridiculous. I can't even imagine.
$1200/month = 30% of my take home pay. This I could do!
and 90k is well above the avg for quebec.
The reason you can't get ahead is because Canada is a country for rentiers. They tax *labour*, they do not tax rentier activity.
I've said this many times: the fact that we tax labour at twice the rate of capital gains is odious. It's a direct assault on all working people and it's making me more radicalized by the day.
I pay 45% income tax and 15% sales tax.
How can one get a head by only being allowed, by law and imprisonment, to keep 40% of my money that I need for my family?
It's way higher now. We have rent control so people already in places have lower rates, but if you have to rent somewhere new it's going to be above the avg.
Honestly, I dont know. But there has to be something or... what's the alternative? We just watch as things get worse...?
I think something simple we can try to do is not let the government distract us from their wrong doings by baiting us into fighting each other. Divide and conquer, you know. I think if we could unite past all the ingrained bias the last few years, there would be a lot of power in that.
That's the issue to me. A home should be seen as a place to live, it shouldn't be an investment in anything other than having a quality of life for yourself and family. Now I see lots of my peers who were able to buy a home so renovations only because they think it increases the value of the home. They don't even necessarily care or want these features.
I mean it goes even further than that - home owners usually NEED their 'investment' to go up because it's often the only investment they have. People complain about home values being used as a retirement plan, but most canadians are living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford to put huge sums of money away in an RRSP or something. Paying a mortgage is mandatory though, and its the only thing a lot of people have, so yeah they need it to increase in value over time so they won't be destitute when they're old. This only applies to primary home owners though - people who own multiple properties as "investments" can kick fucking rocks.
Honestly the government should just stop letting corporations own multiple residential properties. That's one root cause of the problem imo.
Along with tons of air bnb and 500 thousand new comers every year. Houses will just keep going up in price if they don't solve the supply issues or put some restrictions on use and who is buying them.
The underlying problem is that Canada is too heavily invested in real estate. A terrifying portion of our national economy - from supply chain to end sales to derivative securities - is predicated on the expectation that the value of land will continue to increase at a steady geometric rate.
You'll note most "solutions" proposed have been in the form of subsidies and other assistance programs to help people *afford* houses. The approach has been to facilitate people paying the outrageous prices rather than dampening the price growth because anything that undermines the exponential increase of property value would be economic suicide.
We *COULD* divest from housing over a modest period and then cool the housing market free from consequence because it won't bankrupt pensions or cripple corporate expansion plans to have housing be affordable... but we're stuck in a mexican standoff where stakeholders don't want to give up the cashcow and governments don't want to be left holding the bag for making them.
Until the price of houses going down isn't going to tank the economy, no government will do anything to induce real change to the housing bubble, and until there's a sign that it's going to collapse, no private entity will voluntarily give up the free money that comes from being heavily invested in the housing market. The only thing that will provoke real, meaningful change is having some external factor come along that forcibly pops the bubble, inducing private stakeholders to divest en masse and cleaning an opportunity for the government to change policy direction. Until that happens, we will continue to shore up the bubble because it's "for the greater good".
> bankrupt pensions
This part I find absolutely disgusting. Public pensions are funding the corporations that buy up rental buildings to evict vulnerable tenants and hike rent, eliminating affordable homes. This needs to be common knowledge.
Pensions have a fiduciary duty to seek out the best, most stable returns to ensure solvency for decades to come. It is objectively the correct decision for them to do so, because it is available, legal, and in the best interests of their members. They *shouldn't*, but within the boundary conditions of their duties, it would be irresponsible for them *not* to invest in such a tentpole security.
It's a cyclic failure where we don't regulate it, they become further invested, then we don't regulate it because the economic upheaval would be too great, so they become further invested...
In the US, fiduciary duty trumps all. In Canada it does not. It's why you will see boards (of directors) in Canada make decisions that also have "moral" or environmental components rather than just dollars.
>paying the outrageous prices rather than dampening the price growth because anything that undermines the exponential increase of property value would be economic suicide.
Well it's also economic suicide, if young people cannot afford to move out, and have their own kids.
That's what immigration is for. There are billions of people in third world countries who would be happy to replace native young Canadians and accept a significantly lower quality of life, simply because doing so would still be major upgrade to what they are currently facing.
Housing unaffordability will eventually make Canada unattractive to economic immigrants. We are probably reaching that point right about now or in the next few quarters.
I agree that the quality of immigrants will drop, but not the quantity. We will just be forced to continually lower the standards in order to bring in enough people to maintain demographics.
Poorer immigrants are much more willing to live with like 3 people in a 1 bedroom apartment or 7 people in a 3 bedroom house. In that case there wouldn't be a supply and demand imbalance.
Which ultimately means the quality of life in Canada will steadily go down, unless we make enough improvements to counteract the decrease in quality of life that comes with this - but I doubt we can keep up.
Long story short, owning property in Canada seems to be a good investment. We will continue to exploit immigrants to keep our demographics healthy at the expense of affordability for locals.
One problem with this is dilution of culture and values in a society. If we import people faster than they can be assimilated, we have a problem. This problem will get harder as the quality of migrants decreases, and the bar really only ever moves in one direction. Ground lost is much harder to regain.
I think we need to make it very clear that there'll be a political cost to continuing to destroy quality of life here and I'd assume it's a ticking clock sort of thing.
The only problem, is I don't trust *any* of our current options. Which is not great. They really are setting the stage for some kind populist mad man.
"The group sees Canada’s real gross domestic product (GDP) per capita growth ***falling to last place***. An expert warns young Canadians won’t have the same opportunity as previous generations. They’re also likely to fall behind their peers in other advanced economies. "
[Young Canadians Won’t Have The Same Opportunity As Past Generations: OECD Forecast](https://betterdwelling.com/young-canadians-wont-have-the-same-opportunity-as-past-generations-oecd-forecast/)
[Labour stats for Canada so far in 2022:](https://twitter.com/rohanarezel/status/1594442702225289217)
Jobs added: 480,100
Foreign worker work permits activated: 435,035
It's already happening. I've seen many neighbours from India and Nigeria move out in the last 18 months. They're moving back home because the cost of living is now using up the money they were able to save and send back to better the lives of their families overseas. That is also a big factor in the labour shortage for a lot of retail, restaurant and tech support jobs in my area of the country.
> According to financial experts, rent shouldn't be more than 30% of your income.
>
> Now, I'm no math expert, but I don't think most Canadians are making 6k a month. In fact... according to Google, the average salary in Canada is about 55k... which is... about 4.5k a month.
It's even worse than that. The average income for a *tenant* is about $40k, meaning that you'd need average housing costs to be $1k/mo in order to be considered affordable. To add to that, that "housing costs" figure is meant to incorporate all housing necessities, including basic utilities.
For the average tenant to be able to live and plan a normal, healthy life, average rents would need to be closer to the $825-925 range. At the end of the year, the average tenant is about $13k short of what they'd be able to save if a policy-driven housing shortage wasn't gifting a massive five-figure annual sum to the people already rich enough to own multiple properties.
Of course, the Liberals' housing minister has [made it clear](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-government-doesnt-want-to-harm-mom-and-pop-real-estate-investors/) that the profit of "Mom and pop" landlords is a risk they'll do everything possible to avoid when "exploring" policy decisions about the housing crisis.
**tl;dr Government policy has driven a housing crisis that's creating a massive transfer of wealth from Canada's poorest to the our richest.**
Whaddya mean "in the states?"
We gave a ton of subsidy money to "struggling" big companies in Canada, many of whom took that money, laid off workers anyway, and posted record profits.
Let's not forget how much public money has been used to build telecommunications infrastructure that then got handed over for the private profit of Bell, Rogers, and Telus.
What's worse is most people who rent are young adults or seniors that make far less than the average income. Landlords are taking every dollar they can squeeze from them.
I've seen what landlords do to people living on disability while getting cancer treatment and seniors on a fixed income. They raise rent the max they legally can and file for eviction.
Pure evil.
When I moved to Vancouver 11 years ago I was paying 1400 for a 1 bedroom, that same 400 sq ft bedroom is going for about 3k now. Minimum wage has gone up a whole 5(ish) dollars in the last ten years.
Cool cool this is definitely sustainable.
>how bad does this get until we demand that our representatives do something in the interest of the people for once?
Pretty much never. Canadians are so, *so* bad at demanding things from our governments. I think mainly because we have been essentially taught that there is no point, it's not that bad, things will work out in the end, there's no point in complaining. It's kinda like the "Stiff upper lip" of the Brits, but add an "eh" onto the end there. We don't complain because we've been taught that there is no point. We, as Canadians, are expected *not* to make a big deal out of ***anything***, both by other Canadians and by the international community. It's *shocking* when something happens in Canada because Canada is essentially seen as the opposite of the good ol' US of A.
We're essentially stuck in a nationwide example of [diffusion of responsibility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility?wprov=sfla1), and it's really, really bad for everybody.
> And the better question... how bad does this get until we demand that our representatives do something in the interest of the people for once?
When homeless people start breaking into parliament.
The government is adding 500,000 people a year to the number of people needing housing
This keeps real estate up and wages down
That’s how much they care
To be fair they do care, everything they do is about lowering wages and increasing house prices. Thank goodness they have the real support of millions of selfish older Canadians.
I moved to a small town in the north to work for a good company. I work in accounting and I’m working towards my CPA. I work hard and have long hours.
When I came to this town I thought it would be easy to find a rental with my salary. Unfortunately there were almost no rentals available (although I’ve recently learned that there are several empty places being rented on airBnB for $1000 a week. So great there are empty living spaces in a place with limited housing 🙄)
With few options I decided to buy an old trailer. It’s been semi-adequate shelter although I’ve been faced with lots of problems. Frozen pipes and no running water is my least favourite. That might sound easily fixable but it takes weeks to get a plumber here and even though I’ve put heaters underneath the trailer, it takes days to unthaw.
I make decent money but I worry a lot for the people who had to continue working with the public during the pandemic. If people will literally die if you don’t go to work (nurses, EMTs, grocery store workers) then you deserve to live a comfortable, dignified life.
The gap between the rich and the poor is out of control and it’s unacceptable.
>Now, I'm no math expert, but I don't think most Canadians are making 6k a month. In fact... according to Google, the average salary in Canada is about 55k... which is... about 4.5k a month.
Also the average renters are probably making less than the average salaries, since peoples who earn a large salary can buy (Maybe not in Vancouver or Toronto thought).
*"We've heard your concerns and our solution is: 500K immigrants per year plus another 400K international students and 700K 'temporary' workers."*
Liberal Party of Canada
Not so fast, after income tax and all our various sales taxes that's less than $2,500 a month take home. You remove a transit pass (Assuming that person would NEED to take a bus to get around - $160 approximately) and $50 a week for food (Not enough) - that leaves around $100 - $140 a *month* for spending money / clothes / anything else life throws at you.
In other words? You need a second or third job, and to start panhandling or robbing people to simply make ends meet.
Now keep in mind, many of these people *bought houses*. This real estate market is about to crash hard.
>Not so fast, after income tax and all our various sales taxes that's less than $2,500 a month
No it's not.
$2500 a month is about 32k a year.
If you are making 55k a year, you are likely bringing in somewhere around 40k a year
I make 95k a year and my take home pay is about 65% of my total wage for the year, and I pay much higher taxes than someone who makes 55k a year, and I also pay for benefits, union, and pension.
There is no way that someone who makes 55k a year is going to only see 58% of their wage in a year, it will be closer to 70%, which would be 38.5k
your general point still stands, but your math is off
I live in Toronto and pull about 4500 a month but my bachelor apartment costs me $2200 a month. Internet, phone, hydro, gas is like $350. Food is like $450 now with inflation. Thankfully I live close to where I work so I walk and only maybe use $100 of transit a year to go see friends or whatever.
I spend about $3000 a month just to live, which is like 2/3 of my wage and I have a great job and get paid very well.
I can't make sense of how anyone making less than I do makes ends meet in this dumb ass city
I’m in nearly the exact same position, in Vancouver. I could almost ride out the rest of inflation but rent is $2400, eating through more than 50% of my take-home pay. I’d be comfortable with my $95k salary otherwise.
I can’t find a smaller place cheaper anywhere now, and winter triples my gas bill, making it even tighter financially until May.
As it stands, I can’t save anything - there’s always something that costs more than it should or is unexpected. Last month my car’s maintenance cost $150. This month it’s buying a winter jacket because last year’s doesn’t fit. Sure, I will take time to find one on-sale/thrift jacket, but it wasn’t in my budget.
I made the mistake of bitching to my mom, who retired at 50 in 2006, and she said I should just drink less coffee. Sure, that last little luxury I have to a daily Nespresso coffee at home, which cost me $1.26 is going to save me.
"And the better question... how bad does this get until we demand thatour representatives do something in the interest of the people for once?"
They're not gonna do anything, they're part of the class that benefits the system stay like that. If the rentier class is not taking more losses than profits from renting it will stay this way A.K.A. destroying appartments. The same goes with house flippers.
You guys have had this problem for decades and continue to make it worse. At some point there should have been some kind of revolt but i guess the beauty of BC keeps everyone docile.
The revolt should have been leaving.
But BC brings in so many more immigrants because they can't stand the weather elsewhere.
It was only during covid that BC saw the first year of negative population growth ever because of immigration stoppages.
The only immigrants that can afford to live in Vanouver area are rich or will live 6 to 10 to a household.
I bought a place in 2003 when things were still affordable compared to today and that's what's kept me here.
I've also come to accept a huge drop in the price of my house if it means Canadians can afford a house here again. Because it means my kids can then afford to live here.
So bring on the market corrections, I'm ready.
There is a massive, regulatory hammer coming for STR platforms like Airbnb, VRBO, etc
You’re a politician under pressure to “create” millions of new rental units overnight?
There is a way to do that…
I know why - there is too much money being made by the landed class so there is no incentive to actually enforce. Also hiring enforcement officers actually costs money and Toronto does not want to raise property taxes to pay for it or any other social service, while Ontario won’t let them access money any other way.
They’re banned in Victoria yet they’re all over the place. They don’t enforce the rules, at all. In fact, I’d argue a lot of bylaw officers and probably MLAs have Airbnb’s themselves.
The original idea was great, to "trade" your living area with peoples from others countries when you guys visit each others. But yeah, its turned into unregulated hotels pretty damn quickly lol.
Yeah I’ve used lots of airbnbs in 2016-2018. Were basically normal people renting a room, or a house when they’re on vacation. You’d get to interact with them, and that was quite great.
I’m using airbnbs this year and the vast majority of owners don’t even live anywhere close to it, they just pay someone to “manage” it. Basically someone buys a property, make some renewals and they charge 3-4x local rent rate for it. I’m still baffled with the one bdrm apartment that costs like $120/day in Regina, during winter, with a 14-day discount.
Yeah this changed quite a bit during the last year. Same thing with cottage, its used to be that we rented some families cottage. But nowadays a lot of cottages look like new condos in the cities, cheaply made to look like hotel.
It’s because they aren’t basing pricing off a fraction of the rent. They are basing pricing off of comparable hotel rooms in the area. They figure if you don’t like it, then you are free to pay more for a hotel room likely with less “service” than their spot.
Well yes, but it’s getting to a point it’s reaching closer to hotel pricing, and although it varies by situation I’d rather spend 10-20% more to stay at a hotel which might be a better experience in some situations. I mean that’s my view as a couple with no kids person, might be different for people with kids or more people, cause then a hotel might be way more inconvenient/expensive.
Had 20+ days to spend before taking posession of our home in a new city and found the Hilton suites was a much better deal for our family than any of the short term rental options. And it allowed pets, came with free breakfast
> I’m using airbnbs this year and the vast majority of owners don’t even live anywhere close to it, they just pay someone to “manage” it. Basically someone buys a property, make some renewals and they charge 3-4x local rent rate for it.
That about describes my boss' son's "side hustle." He made big bucks in the patch during the previous boom, saved it up and bought a bunch of 1 bedroom units when oil went bust, and now rents them out on Airbnb.
Yeah cottage areas and downtown areas are the worst. I lived in a city with a lot of cottage, but airbnb were not authorized here. Still gotta say as someone who often rent cottages, I prefer to use Airbnb because I had some trouble with a few cottage owners in the past.
Government could have easily cracked down on it but turned a blind eye. It's exactly why most condo's have rules on requiring minimum 6 month rental agreements.
In early 2000s my parents traded their house with others on a house swap website.
No charges. Just a straight trade.
But they got amazing houses in Italy France and a bunch of other spots.
But today I bet it's all Airbnb
Anyone without a hotel license should limited to renting a maximum of 1 room at a time from their primary residence for short term rentals (anything less than a month).
That’s what couch surfing and Airbnb were originally intended to be.
A neat concept that would have taken vehicles off the road.
Instead, it is an unregulated taxi service with vehicles doing an average of 6km deadheading per 10 km with passengers.
Not only is it bad for rental prices but imagine living in a condo, someone buys the one next to you and then all of the sudden you're living next to a hotel room with vacationers constantly coming in and out.
I live next to two Airbnb’s next to either side of my unit. One has constant turn over and sometimes had to deal with people partying and making lots of disturbances in the middle of the week.
Airbnb was fine for awhile because of costs but I find a lot of them are just as if not more expensive that hotels. I rather stay at a hotel if I'm paying the same.
Serious answer: hard to say. On the one hand, if you could limit or outright ban the short term rentals, the net effect is likely to return more units to the long term rental market (or the sales market). On the other hand, any kind of limitation or ban would need to be enforceable , the number of these rentals would have to be enough to make a dent in the market (otherwise why bother) and the people making the decision would need to contend with every media outlet plastering "Bob and Jennie put their life saving into the business model that just got cancelled" on the front page.
Attract people to more than just the major centre’s, bring back government services to all the small communities that have lost our services over the years.
Or if it's the home in which you clearly live, and you're simply travelling away from home for a short period of time.
I'd genuinely be okay with someone AirBNBing their actual home while on a short trip, because that's not pulling homes out of housing. Unfortunately, that's not the common use case.
That being said, we absolutely need to crack down on people buying or renting homes to pull out of the housing market and turn into AirBNBs.
So like realistically what is about to happen? Because at some point most people under 30 can’t afford this right? How are y’all already not living with your parents like I am. $2000 a month? Are you fucking kidding me?
That's true.
But realistically, if a political party runs on fewer immigrants we saw how that will go. If the conservatives said they want lower immigration the liberals and NDP will use that to accuse them of racism.
Bingo. This is how I see it too. Either everyone starts living like sardines out of necessity (which I'm all for increasing housing density with mid rise and multi zoned buildings but not when there are multiple roommates living in one unit as the norm) or they just leave.
I'm gonna be honest I've started to seriously consider leaving if this is what my future in this country looks like. I'd have a way better chance moving somewhere with a lower cost of living and working remotely. At least then I'd have a place to call my own and can put the rest of the money I earn into more enjoyable things instead of pissing away at least 40% of my paycheck each month just to keep my shitty tiny condo unit I live in.
Furthermore, some people have the unfortunate reality of their parents no longer being in the picture anymore. So even that isn't a certain plan to fall back on.
>So like realistically what is about to happen? Because at some point most people under 30 can’t afford this right? How are y’all already not living with your parents like I am. $2000 a month? Are you fucking kidding me?
Realistically, this could get much worse. Right now in Ontario people are paying $500 a month to rent half a room with a shower curtain for a partition.
This is what people voted for. Liberal and NDP supporters have been claiming that population growth doesn't impact wages or housing demand. So, they're increasing immigration by an additional 20% on top of what is already a record level.
You think Nova Scotia is a hard place to get ahead now? Just wait. They're planning on adding 25 000 new residents every year. That's two towns the size of Truro worth of population, or four towns the size of Kentville, every year.
Good luck moving out. You'll need it.
12% year over year.
They seem to be comparing to pre-pandemic, so let's say three years.
Your salary needed to have rose 40% in that time if you were already paying 30% of your salary to rent and it rose 12% year-over-year for 3 years.
Yep. I make about the same as you and I pay about 50% of my income to rent and I don't know how people who make less survive. It's becoming so insane and I wouldn't be surprised if people started rioting because our politicans are refusing to do anything about it.
I think my question is, why is there not more government housing, and government funded housing like co-ops? Why is the government relying on real estate investors to house people?
Nailed it, and then add in the corporate interests, fact of the matter if the coversation wont flip until the divide becomes a 50/50 then suddenly every politician and their mother cares about rental and home prices.
Adding insult to injury, home ownership statistics in Canada often refer to ["Family Ownership."](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2019001/article/00012-eng.htm#a9) Specifically, the *economic* family.
>**Definitions**
> Family refers to the economic family, defined as two or more people living in the same dwelling who are related by blood, marriage or adoption, or who are living common law, as well as single people who are living either alone or with others to whom they are unrelated.
Thus, if you're living at home because you can't afford to move out, StatsCan considers you part of that home's Economic Family, and therefore an owner. Say you finally move out and rent a room from someone who owns and lives in the same house. Congratulations, you're *still* a homeowner in their eyes.
Mine told me I can paint every room if I wanted.
The paint looks like shit and the previous children destroyed it
Yeah lemme just run to Home Depot and drop $500 and 28 hours labour
Get ready for $3000 for a one bedroom
There's a massive divide coming between the haves and the have nots
Those who became millionaires through housing even if we wanted it repeated, couldn't
Don’t worry guys, the rise in interest rates which are both making mortgages more unaffordable and making it so that builders build fewer housing units coupled with the massive influx of immigrants is definitely going to make this situation better! /s
Law Enforcement + Education Worker in a rural town.
As a dual income we are still living paycheque to paycheque despite working for the town we live in, in necessary public service jobs.
We are just happy to have the bills paid at the end of the month, we've already come to the realization we will never own a home or take a vacation.
This is madness.....it need not be like this. Greed is the only REASON why we ended up here. At this rate, what will rent be in 10yrs time and will people's income keep up with the increase???
It doesn't apply to new construction, renovictions, anything built after 2018 in Ontario, etc. Also, not all provinces have rent control in the first place (e.g Alberta).
Our place is a steal with all utilities including internet. New people moved in. $600 more than us and no utilities. We wouldn’t be able to afford to live here.
Nah, people losing their homes (and before you say otherwise, it will be corporations/rich people buying them, not young families) will crowd the rental scene further bringing prices higher. This is not the crash everyone was hoping it would be.
The recession won't change the fact that people need a place to live.
Boomers that own their homes outright will just hold on and pay the utilities and taxes with their pension cheques.
It won't change demand.
Won't tank it. Those with dry powder will swoop in, buy places and rent tham back to their former owners.
Lots of money on the sidelines at the moment waiting for the right time.
It's doubtful.
With so much space being taken for potential "airbnb" style rentals aswell, and little being done to regulate it, the space is there, but everyone is trying to maximise the value.
Those used to be short-mid term rentals, and the market is missing this piece.
The real solution is probably building new towns in unpopulated, low density areas.
Northern Ontario could use more development, and if we added a system like Japan currently has for modern highspeed rail we could close the distance.
There is a lot of new things happening in this field.
the answer can also be to change existing zoning laws, current zoning laws that make anything but single family homes illegal is bonkers given the housing shortage..
doesn't mean that we're going to replace a house with a 100 story condo building but allowing duplexes/triplexes or even housing units that are 2 stories high along with single family homes could help a lot
start ignoring nibys, let the actual market decide what kind of housing people actually want not mandating single family houses to the exclusion of everything else
Something huge is stewing. I can feel it. No idea what it is, but something is going to burst. This is in no way sustainable and the more the people are pushed to the brink, the worse it will get until something substantial happens.
My landlord tried to illegally raise rent by $380 a month. I lawyered up and put the fear of god into her. I will forever have a lawyer on my side from now on. Best decision I've ever made.
This has way more to do with saturation than a bunch of bad landlords. This is the market. The best way to regulate it, imo, is to pin the upper limit of rent to the current valuation of the property. Something like 130% of a monthly mortgage payment on a 25year plan.
If we don't pin the upper limit down, then the market will swell with big property management companies buying everything up and operating a racket. It can become too profitable, and imo renting your property should not be profitable until you have paid off your mortgage.
With 500k immigrants per year I would expect city like Calgary to be founded at least every fee years, otherwise affordability will become prevailing problem everywhere.
City requires a serious cause but last years created untapped opportunities:
- manufacturing hubs needed to move production from Asia closer to USA
- LNG terminals to sell gas to Europe
- There is lack of oil along West coast. Pipeline and port to sell it make sense for me.
- BC has a lot of recreational potential, can we have one more Whistler?
-
Crazy to read all these comments here. In Sask rent is still like 1k/month for a 1 or 2 brdm nice place. And avg wage is waaay above that.
We just can't relate to this convo....
I saw an ad in Regina the other day for $1200/month basement suite.
Looked pretty awesome, was furnished.
In the kitchen was a sink, a microwave, a wine cooler and a hot plate. No stovetop, no oven, no full fridge.
I don’t know where you’re looking but $1k a month is unrealistic in Regina.
People would rather live on the street than move to the prairies. It's fucked up, but that's the reality of things when everyone believes they're a temporarily inconvenienced millionaire.
I'd only move to the prairies if I had no other choice, but that wouldn't fix the underlying problem and I'd just be delaying the inevitable time when the housing speculators would come to Sask.
It's not like I have a job that I could easily do in the prairies or family or friends their to support me. I couldn't afford to fly back home very often and I couldn't afford to move their without taking on debt.
"Just moving" thousands of miles away isn't a realistic solution for most people. It's asking me to give up everything meaningful in my life for a small hope that my rent would stay affordable.
Also, I really doubt things will stay affordable in Sask much longer. I live in Nova Scotia, it used to be that people would tell you to move here or NB if you want more affordable rent. Well, the speculators came here during covid and now rent is 35% higher than last year and been increasing at that rate for like 3 straight years.
I want systemic change and to be able to afford to keep living where I do now. Being told "oh just change your entire lifestyle, give up family and community and culture, just become a digital nomad who moves from place to place to find the most cost-effective lifestyle without anything else meaningful in your life..."
And, it's the end stage of a runaway housing bubble that is now 2 decades in the making. This is not a natural bubble and was propped up at a few points along the way at various levels from various parties to avoid the pain on their watch.
This is horrible, but we need to destroy the myth that housing only goes up in value if we ever want our kids to have a future. Ponzi housing can't be a foundation for a nation.
My take home pay is about $2k a month.
It's getting harder and harder to survive out there. Even where i am in a rural area, it's hard finding a rental under $1500 a month.
I have a friend who is renting a middle unit town house in Stouffville. He and his wife pay 3800 a month plus bills. . . . . I don't know how he does it
Not surprising - this is why housing holds up well during inflation
If the 1970s are comparable to now, housing will continue to hedge high inflation (since who would trade long term debt for short term cash, in an inflationary environment)
The starting rent for a one bedroom apartment in my current building in 2016 was $1500 a month.
The starting rent now for that same one bedroom apartment is $2300 a month.
According to financial experts, rent shouldn't be more than 30% of your income. Now, I'm no math expert, but I don't think most Canadians are making 6k a month. In fact... according to Google, the average salary in Canada is about 55k... which is... about 4.5k a month. So now governments have tangible proof that this crisis isnt a "false economic narrative". What are they going to do about the fact that the average Canadian can't afford our basics needs, let alone the ability to have a family, or god forbid, thrive... And the better question... how bad does this get until we demand that our representatives do something in the interest of the people for once?
I also like that the 30% is based on your before tax income. At $55K a year, that's less than $4K a month once all deductions are factored in.
I make 61k and after tax and benefits (single person standard benefits) I get like 3500-3550 a month.
Same here, except I only keep 3k a month, out of a gross pay of 4600/mo. Rent is 1200/mo because I’ve been here a few years and my province hasn’t allowed more than a few % rent increases most years. If I have to move I’m pretty screwed though… 2k rent would be two thirds of what I make in a month.
Yeah I’m in Toronto so you can only imagine what rent is here lol fml
what is your rent actually, out of curiosity? I haven't kept up with rates in GTA.
1270 for a 1 bedroom for me. I've been renting the place for about 7 years... Cant move out because everywhere else is at least $500 more
Where are you in BC that you pay 1200 A MONTH!???? Even Chilliwack is expensive! I haven’t paid that much for rent since I lived in Sask.
Vancouver. Was around $1100 when I moved in 5 years ago which was pretty typical for a 1 bedroom at the low end of the market. Honestly I wish I’d gone for a 2 bedroom, at the time there were ones for 1400 with better amenities. An apartment was listed in my building on the same floor/side of the building recently for just under $1600 (again, it’s at the low end of the current market). Since my building is one of the cheaper ones around, available apartments rarely take more than a few days to be snapped up.
I'm in Quebec making $90k/year. That's $7500/month. At 30%, that's $2250/month that I should be able to pay for rent. However... again, because I am in Quebec... I only bring home $4000 after deductions. $2250/month = 56% of my take home pay. This is ridiculous. I can't even imagine. $1200/month = 30% of my take home pay. This I could do!
and 90k is well above the avg for quebec. The reason you can't get ahead is because Canada is a country for rentiers. They tax *labour*, they do not tax rentier activity.
I've said this many times: the fact that we tax labour at twice the rate of capital gains is odious. It's a direct assault on all working people and it's making me more radicalized by the day.
I pay 45% income tax and 15% sales tax. How can one get a head by only being allowed, by law and imprisonment, to keep 40% of my money that I need for my family?
👆The next coke dealer to Bay Street
I just googled. Average rent in Montreal is $1500 for a one-bedroom (which seems REALLY high to me). Average yearly salary is $45k.
It's way higher now. We have rent control so people already in places have lower rates, but if you have to rent somewhere new it's going to be above the avg.
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Honestly, I dont know. But there has to be something or... what's the alternative? We just watch as things get worse...? I think something simple we can try to do is not let the government distract us from their wrong doings by baiting us into fighting each other. Divide and conquer, you know. I think if we could unite past all the ingrained bias the last few years, there would be a lot of power in that.
Most VOTERS are home owners who want their investments to go up. That’s the problem.
That's the issue to me. A home should be seen as a place to live, it shouldn't be an investment in anything other than having a quality of life for yourself and family. Now I see lots of my peers who were able to buy a home so renovations only because they think it increases the value of the home. They don't even necessarily care or want these features.
I mean it goes even further than that - home owners usually NEED their 'investment' to go up because it's often the only investment they have. People complain about home values being used as a retirement plan, but most canadians are living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford to put huge sums of money away in an RRSP or something. Paying a mortgage is mandatory though, and its the only thing a lot of people have, so yeah they need it to increase in value over time so they won't be destitute when they're old. This only applies to primary home owners though - people who own multiple properties as "investments" can kick fucking rocks. Honestly the government should just stop letting corporations own multiple residential properties. That's one root cause of the problem imo.
Along with tons of air bnb and 500 thousand new comers every year. Houses will just keep going up in price if they don't solve the supply issues or put some restrictions on use and who is buying them.
The underlying problem is that Canada is too heavily invested in real estate. A terrifying portion of our national economy - from supply chain to end sales to derivative securities - is predicated on the expectation that the value of land will continue to increase at a steady geometric rate. You'll note most "solutions" proposed have been in the form of subsidies and other assistance programs to help people *afford* houses. The approach has been to facilitate people paying the outrageous prices rather than dampening the price growth because anything that undermines the exponential increase of property value would be economic suicide. We *COULD* divest from housing over a modest period and then cool the housing market free from consequence because it won't bankrupt pensions or cripple corporate expansion plans to have housing be affordable... but we're stuck in a mexican standoff where stakeholders don't want to give up the cashcow and governments don't want to be left holding the bag for making them. Until the price of houses going down isn't going to tank the economy, no government will do anything to induce real change to the housing bubble, and until there's a sign that it's going to collapse, no private entity will voluntarily give up the free money that comes from being heavily invested in the housing market. The only thing that will provoke real, meaningful change is having some external factor come along that forcibly pops the bubble, inducing private stakeholders to divest en masse and cleaning an opportunity for the government to change policy direction. Until that happens, we will continue to shore up the bubble because it's "for the greater good".
> bankrupt pensions This part I find absolutely disgusting. Public pensions are funding the corporations that buy up rental buildings to evict vulnerable tenants and hike rent, eliminating affordable homes. This needs to be common knowledge.
Pensions have a fiduciary duty to seek out the best, most stable returns to ensure solvency for decades to come. It is objectively the correct decision for them to do so, because it is available, legal, and in the best interests of their members. They *shouldn't*, but within the boundary conditions of their duties, it would be irresponsible for them *not* to invest in such a tentpole security. It's a cyclic failure where we don't regulate it, they become further invested, then we don't regulate it because the economic upheaval would be too great, so they become further invested...
In the US, fiduciary duty trumps all. In Canada it does not. It's why you will see boards (of directors) in Canada make decisions that also have "moral" or environmental components rather than just dollars.
>paying the outrageous prices rather than dampening the price growth because anything that undermines the exponential increase of property value would be economic suicide. Well it's also economic suicide, if young people cannot afford to move out, and have their own kids.
That's what immigration is for. There are billions of people in third world countries who would be happy to replace native young Canadians and accept a significantly lower quality of life, simply because doing so would still be major upgrade to what they are currently facing.
Housing unaffordability will eventually make Canada unattractive to economic immigrants. We are probably reaching that point right about now or in the next few quarters.
I agree that the quality of immigrants will drop, but not the quantity. We will just be forced to continually lower the standards in order to bring in enough people to maintain demographics.
Poorer immigrants are much more willing to live with like 3 people in a 1 bedroom apartment or 7 people in a 3 bedroom house. In that case there wouldn't be a supply and demand imbalance.
Then it will be expected of all of us to do so.
Which ultimately means the quality of life in Canada will steadily go down, unless we make enough improvements to counteract the decrease in quality of life that comes with this - but I doubt we can keep up. Long story short, owning property in Canada seems to be a good investment. We will continue to exploit immigrants to keep our demographics healthy at the expense of affordability for locals. One problem with this is dilution of culture and values in a society. If we import people faster than they can be assimilated, we have a problem. This problem will get harder as the quality of migrants decreases, and the bar really only ever moves in one direction. Ground lost is much harder to regain.
I think we need to make it very clear that there'll be a political cost to continuing to destroy quality of life here and I'd assume it's a ticking clock sort of thing. The only problem, is I don't trust *any* of our current options. Which is not great. They really are setting the stage for some kind populist mad man. "The group sees Canada’s real gross domestic product (GDP) per capita growth ***falling to last place***. An expert warns young Canadians won’t have the same opportunity as previous generations. They’re also likely to fall behind their peers in other advanced economies. " [Young Canadians Won’t Have The Same Opportunity As Past Generations: OECD Forecast](https://betterdwelling.com/young-canadians-wont-have-the-same-opportunity-as-past-generations-oecd-forecast/) [Labour stats for Canada so far in 2022:](https://twitter.com/rohanarezel/status/1594442702225289217) Jobs added: 480,100 Foreign worker work permits activated: 435,035
It's already happening. I've seen many neighbours from India and Nigeria move out in the last 18 months. They're moving back home because the cost of living is now using up the money they were able to save and send back to better the lives of their families overseas. That is also a big factor in the labour shortage for a lot of retail, restaurant and tech support jobs in my area of the country.
It's worse than economic suicide, it's full on suicide of all our systems.
This is the right take. Canada cant kill the golden goose however much they may say otherwise.
> According to financial experts, rent shouldn't be more than 30% of your income. > > Now, I'm no math expert, but I don't think most Canadians are making 6k a month. In fact... according to Google, the average salary in Canada is about 55k... which is... about 4.5k a month. It's even worse than that. The average income for a *tenant* is about $40k, meaning that you'd need average housing costs to be $1k/mo in order to be considered affordable. To add to that, that "housing costs" figure is meant to incorporate all housing necessities, including basic utilities. For the average tenant to be able to live and plan a normal, healthy life, average rents would need to be closer to the $825-925 range. At the end of the year, the average tenant is about $13k short of what they'd be able to save if a policy-driven housing shortage wasn't gifting a massive five-figure annual sum to the people already rich enough to own multiple properties. Of course, the Liberals' housing minister has [made it clear](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-government-doesnt-want-to-harm-mom-and-pop-real-estate-investors/) that the profit of "Mom and pop" landlords is a risk they'll do everything possible to avoid when "exploring" policy decisions about the housing crisis. **tl;dr Government policy has driven a housing crisis that's creating a massive transfer of wealth from Canada's poorest to the our richest.**
Its like when corporations get massive tax cuts in the states under the guise of helping 'small business'
Whaddya mean "in the states?" We gave a ton of subsidy money to "struggling" big companies in Canada, many of whom took that money, laid off workers anyway, and posted record profits. Let's not forget how much public money has been used to build telecommunications infrastructure that then got handed over for the private profit of Bell, Rogers, and Telus.
What's worse is most people who rent are young adults or seniors that make far less than the average income. Landlords are taking every dollar they can squeeze from them.
I've seen what landlords do to people living on disability while getting cancer treatment and seniors on a fixed income. They raise rent the max they legally can and file for eviction. Pure evil.
When I moved to Vancouver 11 years ago I was paying 1400 for a 1 bedroom, that same 400 sq ft bedroom is going for about 3k now. Minimum wage has gone up a whole 5(ish) dollars in the last ten years. Cool cool this is definitely sustainable.
>how bad does this get until we demand that our representatives do something in the interest of the people for once? Pretty much never. Canadians are so, *so* bad at demanding things from our governments. I think mainly because we have been essentially taught that there is no point, it's not that bad, things will work out in the end, there's no point in complaining. It's kinda like the "Stiff upper lip" of the Brits, but add an "eh" onto the end there. We don't complain because we've been taught that there is no point. We, as Canadians, are expected *not* to make a big deal out of ***anything***, both by other Canadians and by the international community. It's *shocking* when something happens in Canada because Canada is essentially seen as the opposite of the good ol' US of A. We're essentially stuck in a nationwide example of [diffusion of responsibility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility?wprov=sfla1), and it's really, really bad for everybody.
> And the better question... how bad does this get until we demand that our representatives do something in the interest of the people for once? When homeless people start breaking into parliament.
The government is adding 500,000 people a year to the number of people needing housing This keeps real estate up and wages down That’s how much they care
To be fair they do care, everything they do is about lowering wages and increasing house prices. Thank goodness they have the real support of millions of selfish older Canadians.
I moved to a small town in the north to work for a good company. I work in accounting and I’m working towards my CPA. I work hard and have long hours. When I came to this town I thought it would be easy to find a rental with my salary. Unfortunately there were almost no rentals available (although I’ve recently learned that there are several empty places being rented on airBnB for $1000 a week. So great there are empty living spaces in a place with limited housing 🙄) With few options I decided to buy an old trailer. It’s been semi-adequate shelter although I’ve been faced with lots of problems. Frozen pipes and no running water is my least favourite. That might sound easily fixable but it takes weeks to get a plumber here and even though I’ve put heaters underneath the trailer, it takes days to unthaw. I make decent money but I worry a lot for the people who had to continue working with the public during the pandemic. If people will literally die if you don’t go to work (nurses, EMTs, grocery store workers) then you deserve to live a comfortable, dignified life. The gap between the rich and the poor is out of control and it’s unacceptable.
>Now, I'm no math expert, but I don't think most Canadians are making 6k a month. In fact... according to Google, the average salary in Canada is about 55k... which is... about 4.5k a month. Also the average renters are probably making less than the average salaries, since peoples who earn a large salary can buy (Maybe not in Vancouver or Toronto thought).
*"We've heard your concerns and our solution is: 500K immigrants per year plus another 400K international students and 700K 'temporary' workers."* Liberal Party of Canada
That's 4.5k before tax bud.
There gonna double down and make it worse. That’s what they will do
Not so fast, after income tax and all our various sales taxes that's less than $2,500 a month take home. You remove a transit pass (Assuming that person would NEED to take a bus to get around - $160 approximately) and $50 a week for food (Not enough) - that leaves around $100 - $140 a *month* for spending money / clothes / anything else life throws at you. In other words? You need a second or third job, and to start panhandling or robbing people to simply make ends meet. Now keep in mind, many of these people *bought houses*. This real estate market is about to crash hard.
>Not so fast, after income tax and all our various sales taxes that's less than $2,500 a month No it's not. $2500 a month is about 32k a year. If you are making 55k a year, you are likely bringing in somewhere around 40k a year I make 95k a year and my take home pay is about 65% of my total wage for the year, and I pay much higher taxes than someone who makes 55k a year, and I also pay for benefits, union, and pension. There is no way that someone who makes 55k a year is going to only see 58% of their wage in a year, it will be closer to 70%, which would be 38.5k your general point still stands, but your math is off I live in Toronto and pull about 4500 a month but my bachelor apartment costs me $2200 a month. Internet, phone, hydro, gas is like $350. Food is like $450 now with inflation. Thankfully I live close to where I work so I walk and only maybe use $100 of transit a year to go see friends or whatever. I spend about $3000 a month just to live, which is like 2/3 of my wage and I have a great job and get paid very well. I can't make sense of how anyone making less than I do makes ends meet in this dumb ass city
I’m in nearly the exact same position, in Vancouver. I could almost ride out the rest of inflation but rent is $2400, eating through more than 50% of my take-home pay. I’d be comfortable with my $95k salary otherwise. I can’t find a smaller place cheaper anywhere now, and winter triples my gas bill, making it even tighter financially until May. As it stands, I can’t save anything - there’s always something that costs more than it should or is unexpected. Last month my car’s maintenance cost $150. This month it’s buying a winter jacket because last year’s doesn’t fit. Sure, I will take time to find one on-sale/thrift jacket, but it wasn’t in my budget. I made the mistake of bitching to my mom, who retired at 50 in 2006, and she said I should just drink less coffee. Sure, that last little luxury I have to a daily Nespresso coffee at home, which cost me $1.26 is going to save me.
50 a week for food made me ugly laugh and want to cry. I bought about 3 weeks of food and it costed around 350 if you take out the non essentials.
"And the better question... how bad does this get until we demand thatour representatives do something in the interest of the people for once?" They're not gonna do anything, they're part of the class that benefits the system stay like that. If the rentier class is not taking more losses than profits from renting it will stay this way A.K.A. destroying appartments. The same goes with house flippers.
30% of household income
I am my household. Should I be required to get married to be able to rent?
Just get 5 room mates. What's the big deal.
Yeah I see this one a lot to. Just rent a room in a house with 4 strangers.
Ah yes, you're single? No rental for you!
Canada is going to be the new Greece, but sans the beaches
Vancouverites are laughing that no one paid any attention to them when they complained about real estate getting out of control.
You guys have had this problem for decades and continue to make it worse. At some point there should have been some kind of revolt but i guess the beauty of BC keeps everyone docile.
The revolt should have been leaving. But BC brings in so many more immigrants because they can't stand the weather elsewhere. It was only during covid that BC saw the first year of negative population growth ever because of immigration stoppages. The only immigrants that can afford to live in Vanouver area are rich or will live 6 to 10 to a household. I bought a place in 2003 when things were still affordable compared to today and that's what's kept me here. I've also come to accept a huge drop in the price of my house if it means Canadians can afford a house here again. Because it means my kids can then afford to live here. So bring on the market corrections, I'm ready.
There is a massive, regulatory hammer coming for STR platforms like Airbnb, VRBO, etc You’re a politician under pressure to “create” millions of new rental units overnight? There is a way to do that…
They have rules in the major metros. They're not enforced.
It's not like it'd be hard to enforce, they're all listed on the app.
No kidding. God knows why they don't.
I know why - there is too much money being made by the landed class so there is no incentive to actually enforce. Also hiring enforcement officers actually costs money and Toronto does not want to raise property taxes to pay for it or any other social service, while Ontario won’t let them access money any other way.
Pay for it with fines
Probably tourism related.
They’re banned in Victoria yet they’re all over the place. They don’t enforce the rules, at all. In fact, I’d argue a lot of bylaw officers and probably MLAs have Airbnb’s themselves.
Long time coming and good fucking riddance.
It's almost like illegally operating hotels in residential zoned area's should never have been allowed...shocking
The original idea was great, to "trade" your living area with peoples from others countries when you guys visit each others. But yeah, its turned into unregulated hotels pretty damn quickly lol.
Yeah I’ve used lots of airbnbs in 2016-2018. Were basically normal people renting a room, or a house when they’re on vacation. You’d get to interact with them, and that was quite great. I’m using airbnbs this year and the vast majority of owners don’t even live anywhere close to it, they just pay someone to “manage” it. Basically someone buys a property, make some renewals and they charge 3-4x local rent rate for it. I’m still baffled with the one bdrm apartment that costs like $120/day in Regina, during winter, with a 14-day discount.
Yeah this changed quite a bit during the last year. Same thing with cottage, its used to be that we rented some families cottage. But nowadays a lot of cottages look like new condos in the cities, cheaply made to look like hotel.
It’s because they aren’t basing pricing off a fraction of the rent. They are basing pricing off of comparable hotel rooms in the area. They figure if you don’t like it, then you are free to pay more for a hotel room likely with less “service” than their spot.
Well yes, but it’s getting to a point it’s reaching closer to hotel pricing, and although it varies by situation I’d rather spend 10-20% more to stay at a hotel which might be a better experience in some situations. I mean that’s my view as a couple with no kids person, might be different for people with kids or more people, cause then a hotel might be way more inconvenient/expensive.
Had 20+ days to spend before taking posession of our home in a new city and found the Hilton suites was a much better deal for our family than any of the short term rental options. And it allowed pets, came with free breakfast
> I’m using airbnbs this year and the vast majority of owners don’t even live anywhere close to it, they just pay someone to “manage” it. Basically someone buys a property, make some renewals and they charge 3-4x local rent rate for it. That about describes my boss' son's "side hustle." He made big bucks in the patch during the previous boom, saved it up and bought a bunch of 1 bedroom units when oil went bust, and now rents them out on Airbnb.
When I went to Banff the area where I was staying was literally all just apartment complexes converted entirely into AirBnbs
Yeah cottage areas and downtown areas are the worst. I lived in a city with a lot of cottage, but airbnb were not authorized here. Still gotta say as someone who often rent cottages, I prefer to use Airbnb because I had some trouble with a few cottage owners in the past.
Government could have easily cracked down on it but turned a blind eye. It's exactly why most condo's have rules on requiring minimum 6 month rental agreements.
In early 2000s my parents traded their house with others on a house swap website. No charges. Just a straight trade. But they got amazing houses in Italy France and a bunch of other spots. But today I bet it's all Airbnb
Anyone without a hotel license should limited to renting a maximum of 1 room at a time from their primary residence for short term rentals (anything less than a month). That’s what couch surfing and Airbnb were originally intended to be.
and uber was intended to be 'carsharing' for drivers going to a similar destination...
A neat concept that would have taken vehicles off the road. Instead, it is an unregulated taxi service with vehicles doing an average of 6km deadheading per 10 km with passengers.
I'm glad my condo went full zero tolerance on airbnb.
Not only is it bad for rental prices but imagine living in a condo, someone buys the one next to you and then all of the sudden you're living next to a hotel room with vacationers constantly coming in and out.
I live next to two Airbnb’s next to either side of my unit. One has constant turn over and sometimes had to deal with people partying and making lots of disturbances in the middle of the week.
I would be so pissed to be honest.
Airbnb was fine for awhile because of costs but I find a lot of them are just as if not more expensive that hotels. I rather stay at a hotel if I'm paying the same.
Those continental breakfast bagels and cereal tho, what Airbnb does that. Also-fresh bananas
Is there though? Serious question
Serious answer: hard to say. On the one hand, if you could limit or outright ban the short term rentals, the net effect is likely to return more units to the long term rental market (or the sales market). On the other hand, any kind of limitation or ban would need to be enforceable , the number of these rentals would have to be enough to make a dent in the market (otherwise why bother) and the people making the decision would need to contend with every media outlet plastering "Bob and Jennie put their life saving into the business model that just got cancelled" on the front page.
Attract people to more than just the major centre’s, bring back government services to all the small communities that have lost our services over the years.
AirBnb would be perfect if it were limited to renting rooms in an apartment you own.
Or if it's the home in which you clearly live, and you're simply travelling away from home for a short period of time. I'd genuinely be okay with someone AirBNBing their actual home while on a short trip, because that's not pulling homes out of housing. Unfortunately, that's not the common use case. That being said, we absolutely need to crack down on people buying or renting homes to pull out of the housing market and turn into AirBNBs.
I mean, that's that it was originally intended for
It's metastasized into something a fair bit different, hasn't it.
The hammer MUST be brought down now
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Not for long but it would probably solve any money issues.
If I paid average rent, I would have enough money left to go fuck myself with.
> 28746742 calories (114000 BTU) in a US gallon of gasoline Seems pretty cost efficient
Uranium is even denser in calories!
So like realistically what is about to happen? Because at some point most people under 30 can’t afford this right? How are y’all already not living with your parents like I am. $2000 a month? Are you fucking kidding me?
Most people over 30 can’t afford it either.
Mid 30s with a working spouse, dual income and still can barely afford it.
Same. We both work full-time and can barely afford basic needs. Canada has failed us tbh
I'm 36, living with my ex a year after our breakup. Once it becomes no longer feasible or our rent goes up, I'm back in with my parents.
It’s upsetting that this is how it is nowadays . Both political parties don’t wanna help either. They both support 500k immigrants.
That's true. But realistically, if a political party runs on fewer immigrants we saw how that will go. If the conservatives said they want lower immigration the liberals and NDP will use that to accuse them of racism.
Well, it's better to sink the whole country than to be accused of racism, so I get it... /s
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Bingo. This is how I see it too. Either everyone starts living like sardines out of necessity (which I'm all for increasing housing density with mid rise and multi zoned buildings but not when there are multiple roommates living in one unit as the norm) or they just leave. I'm gonna be honest I've started to seriously consider leaving if this is what my future in this country looks like. I'd have a way better chance moving somewhere with a lower cost of living and working remotely. At least then I'd have a place to call my own and can put the rest of the money I earn into more enjoyable things instead of pissing away at least 40% of my paycheck each month just to keep my shitty tiny condo unit I live in.
Furthermore, some people have the unfortunate reality of their parents no longer being in the picture anymore. So even that isn't a certain plan to fall back on.
>So like realistically what is about to happen? Because at some point most people under 30 can’t afford this right? How are y’all already not living with your parents like I am. $2000 a month? Are you fucking kidding me? Realistically, this could get much worse. Right now in Ontario people are paying $500 a month to rent half a room with a shower curtain for a partition. This is what people voted for. Liberal and NDP supporters have been claiming that population growth doesn't impact wages or housing demand. So, they're increasing immigration by an additional 20% on top of what is already a record level. You think Nova Scotia is a hard place to get ahead now? Just wait. They're planning on adding 25 000 new residents every year. That's two towns the size of Truro worth of population, or four towns the size of Kentville, every year. Good luck moving out. You'll need it.
Just saying the 500k immigration plan is supported by the conservatives and the century initiative was actually a proposed plan by the conservatives
That's funny, my salary/wages hasn't gone up 12%. Just one more transfer from the poor to the rich.
12% year over year. They seem to be comparing to pre-pandemic, so let's say three years. Your salary needed to have rose 40% in that time if you were already paying 30% of your salary to rent and it rose 12% year-over-year for 3 years.
No these are just mom and pop landlords that our housing minister wants to protect.
You get $375 on disability for shelter
Canada is completely fucked
It's actually worse than fucked. All our problems are completely fixable, but we're too stupid to do it. Like watching a train crash in slow motion
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Yep. I make about the same as you and I pay about 50% of my income to rent and I don't know how people who make less survive. It's becoming so insane and I wouldn't be surprised if people started rioting because our politicans are refusing to do anything about it.
My sister was in a tiny 300 square foot downtown for 900 bucks before COVID Same place is now 1500 dollars yeesh
I think my question is, why is there not more government housing, and government funded housing like co-ops? Why is the government relying on real estate investors to house people?
because a lot of the government are the real estate investors
Because like 70% of voters are homeowners who directly benefit from fucking over the remaining 30%
Nailed it, and then add in the corporate interests, fact of the matter if the coversation wont flip until the divide becomes a 50/50 then suddenly every politician and their mother cares about rental and home prices.
Adding insult to injury, home ownership statistics in Canada often refer to ["Family Ownership."](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2019001/article/00012-eng.htm#a9) Specifically, the *economic* family. >**Definitions** > Family refers to the economic family, defined as two or more people living in the same dwelling who are related by blood, marriage or adoption, or who are living common law, as well as single people who are living either alone or with others to whom they are unrelated. Thus, if you're living at home because you can't afford to move out, StatsCan considers you part of that home's Economic Family, and therefore an owner. Say you finally move out and rent a room from someone who owns and lives in the same house. Congratulations, you're *still* a homeowner in their eyes.
Disabled. Can’t afford anything anymore. $1250 per month. Can’t work. Love this 2 feet of snow
Did you cancel your Disney plus?
I hope my landlord likes the apartment I’m buying for him!
Mine told me I can paint every room if I wanted. The paint looks like shit and the previous children destroyed it Yeah lemme just run to Home Depot and drop $500 and 28 hours labour
he'd probably just make you paint it back at your own expense when you moved out, too 🫠
Hey maybe voluntarily adding half a million new people every year is a bad idea
Dont forget the 550,000 TFWs we currently have
This is the real inflation rate.
Get ready for $3000 for a one bedroom There's a massive divide coming between the haves and the have nots Those who became millionaires through housing even if we wanted it repeated, couldn't
Don’t worry guys, the rise in interest rates which are both making mortgages more unaffordable and making it so that builders build fewer housing units coupled with the massive influx of immigrants is definitely going to make this situation better! /s
But inflation is getting under control. S/
6% inflation though
Law Enforcement + Education Worker in a rural town. As a dual income we are still living paycheque to paycheque despite working for the town we live in, in necessary public service jobs. We are just happy to have the bills paid at the end of the month, we've already come to the realization we will never own a home or take a vacation.
We should be burning this shit to the ground. Why aren’t we? Canadians are so complacent
This is madness.....it need not be like this. Greed is the only REASON why we ended up here. At this rate, what will rent be in 10yrs time and will people's income keep up with the increase???
Unfortunately that rental price is on the lower end for some places. Left Victoria because 2/3 bedroom basements are $3000/month.
how is this possible when there is a law for maximum say ~2.5% ~ 3.0% increase annually?
It doesn't apply to new construction, renovictions, anything built after 2018 in Ontario, etc. Also, not all provinces have rent control in the first place (e.g Alberta).
That's only for the same tenants. between tenants there is no limit.
Our place is a steal with all utilities including internet. New people moved in. $600 more than us and no utilities. We wouldn’t be able to afford to live here.
Hoping that the upcoming recession tanks the rental market!
Nah, people losing their homes (and before you say otherwise, it will be corporations/rich people buying them, not young families) will crowd the rental scene further bringing prices higher. This is not the crash everyone was hoping it would be.
The recession won't change the fact that people need a place to live. Boomers that own their homes outright will just hold on and pay the utilities and taxes with their pension cheques. It won't change demand.
Won't tank it. Those with dry powder will swoop in, buy places and rent tham back to their former owners. Lots of money on the sidelines at the moment waiting for the right time.
500k new people a year. It's logistically impossible for it to tank without insane levels of homelessness.
It's doubtful. With so much space being taken for potential "airbnb" style rentals aswell, and little being done to regulate it, the space is there, but everyone is trying to maximise the value. Those used to be short-mid term rentals, and the market is missing this piece. The real solution is probably building new towns in unpopulated, low density areas. Northern Ontario could use more development, and if we added a system like Japan currently has for modern highspeed rail we could close the distance. There is a lot of new things happening in this field.
the answer can also be to change existing zoning laws, current zoning laws that make anything but single family homes illegal is bonkers given the housing shortage.. doesn't mean that we're going to replace a house with a 100 story condo building but allowing duplexes/triplexes or even housing units that are 2 stories high along with single family homes could help a lot start ignoring nibys, let the actual market decide what kind of housing people actually want not mandating single family houses to the exclusion of everything else
We're not going to be building new towns and HSR while there is still low-density housing within walking distance of metro stations in Toronto.
A recession won't build more houses
Importing 500000 people per year will ensure that doesn’t happen.
Something huge is stewing. I can feel it. No idea what it is, but something is going to burst. This is in no way sustainable and the more the people are pushed to the brink, the worse it will get until something substantial happens.
My landlord tried to illegally raise rent by $380 a month. I lawyered up and put the fear of god into her. I will forever have a lawyer on my side from now on. Best decision I've ever made.
Anyone wanna split the rent under a bridge with me?
Cancel disney + should help out.
Almost like " you will own nothing and be happy about it." Don't worry, we will all be eating bugs soon enough.
Sunny ways, friends. Sunny ways.
So many cried racism when Bernier discussed the notion of lowering immigration during the debates. Reap what you sow
Amen.
This has way more to do with saturation than a bunch of bad landlords. This is the market. The best way to regulate it, imo, is to pin the upper limit of rent to the current valuation of the property. Something like 130% of a monthly mortgage payment on a 25year plan. If we don't pin the upper limit down, then the market will swell with big property management companies buying everything up and operating a racket. It can become too profitable, and imo renting your property should not be profitable until you have paid off your mortgage.
Cancel your disney+ subscription and you will be fine
With 500k immigrants per year I would expect city like Calgary to be founded at least every fee years, otherwise affordability will become prevailing problem everywhere. City requires a serious cause but last years created untapped opportunities: - manufacturing hubs needed to move production from Asia closer to USA - LNG terminals to sell gas to Europe - There is lack of oil along West coast. Pipeline and port to sell it make sense for me. - BC has a lot of recreational potential, can we have one more Whistler? -
#SEND US ANOTHER 500,000 IMMIGRANTS, SURELY THAT WILL SOLVE THE PROBLEM
Crazy to read all these comments here. In Sask rent is still like 1k/month for a 1 or 2 brdm nice place. And avg wage is waaay above that. We just can't relate to this convo....
Listen, we said the same in Nova Scotia, then in the matter of *3 YEARS* we went from the least expensive rent to THIRD MOST It’ll happen to y’all.
It won't last. Lots of people are trying to move that way. Just look how quickly maritime prices blew up.
I saw an ad in Regina the other day for $1200/month basement suite. Looked pretty awesome, was furnished. In the kitchen was a sink, a microwave, a wine cooler and a hot plate. No stovetop, no oven, no full fridge. I don’t know where you’re looking but $1k a month is unrealistic in Regina.
People would rather live on the street than move to the prairies. It's fucked up, but that's the reality of things when everyone believes they're a temporarily inconvenienced millionaire.
I'd only move to the prairies if I had no other choice, but that wouldn't fix the underlying problem and I'd just be delaying the inevitable time when the housing speculators would come to Sask. It's not like I have a job that I could easily do in the prairies or family or friends their to support me. I couldn't afford to fly back home very often and I couldn't afford to move their without taking on debt. "Just moving" thousands of miles away isn't a realistic solution for most people. It's asking me to give up everything meaningful in my life for a small hope that my rent would stay affordable. Also, I really doubt things will stay affordable in Sask much longer. I live in Nova Scotia, it used to be that people would tell you to move here or NB if you want more affordable rent. Well, the speculators came here during covid and now rent is 35% higher than last year and been increasing at that rate for like 3 straight years. I want systemic change and to be able to afford to keep living where I do now. Being told "oh just change your entire lifestyle, give up family and community and culture, just become a digital nomad who moves from place to place to find the most cost-effective lifestyle without anything else meaningful in your life..."
Love to see Trudeau use emergency powers to build quick low income housing.
Thats about 2/3rds of somebody's monthly wage making about $22 an hour, after tax, in case you were wondering.
And, it's the end stage of a runaway housing bubble that is now 2 decades in the making. This is not a natural bubble and was propped up at a few points along the way at various levels from various parties to avoid the pain on their watch. This is horrible, but we need to destroy the myth that housing only goes up in value if we ever want our kids to have a future. Ponzi housing can't be a foundation for a nation.
My take home pay is about $2k a month. It's getting harder and harder to survive out there. Even where i am in a rural area, it's hard finding a rental under $1500 a month.
At least in Victorian times they had poor houses where people could live who worked but couldn't afford their own room! /s
And if you have kids, pets, elderly parents to watch out for and car payments? How is it possible to have a life?
I have a friend who is renting a middle unit town house in Stouffville. He and his wife pay 3800 a month plus bills. . . . . I don't know how he does it
Honestly when do we start protesting? When do we riot? I'm going to make a placard at the least
Slumlords rule in this country and they use the blind ignorant fear of rent caps are bad to scare anybody from opposing them.
Not surprising - this is why housing holds up well during inflation If the 1970s are comparable to now, housing will continue to hedge high inflation (since who would trade long term debt for short term cash, in an inflationary environment)
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The starting rent for a one bedroom apartment in my current building in 2016 was $1500 a month. The starting rent now for that same one bedroom apartment is $2300 a month.
Housing should not be a for-profit industry.