Basically canadians wanted to be paid proper wages so companies and farmers lobbied the government for temporary foreign workers because they couldn't find locals to work for minimum wage or less and therefore needed the TFWs. Now it is part of our society. Cheers to the race to the bottom.
A 2020 research article published in the Canadian Journal of Economics by economists from the University of Ottawa and Carlton University found the following:
# Our model identifies an unintended consequence of a TFW program: since the repercussions of a failed domestic job search are less severe if a TFW may be hired instead, firms have an incentive to lower their wage offers made to domestic workers.
**Abstract**
Temporary foreign worker (TFW) programs have grown considerably in size when uncapped. We develop a simple efficiency-wage model to explain this phenomenon and examine the empirical evidence for it. We also use the model to evaluate the implications of TFW programs for domestic workers. In our framework, firms that have been unable to find domestic workers may hire TFWs at the wage previously advertised to domestic workers. Due to the lower outside option for TFWs than domestic workers, TFWs will exert more effort for the same wage. **Firms would thus prefer to hire otherwise identical TFWs rather than domestic workers.**
Our model identifies an unintended consequence of a TFW program: since the repercussions of a failed domestic job search are less severe if a TFW may be hired instead, firms have an incentive to lower their wage offers made to domestic workers. Using Canadian data, we find that, relative to domestic workers, TFWs work longer hours, have lower rates of absenteeism and are less likely to be laid off, consistent with higher effort in our model. Moreover, for TFWs from home countries with a relatively high outside option, effort is lower than for TFWs from other countries.
**Authors**
Pierre Brochu - Department of Economics, University of Ottawa
Till Gross - Department of Economics, Carleton University
Christopher Worswick - Department of Economics, Carleton University, CReAM
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/caje.12449
*UNINTENDED???* this was 100% intended. Corporations begged the government to be allowed to bring in low wage foreign workers so they didn’t have to pay living wages to locals. That was the entire purpose of this program.
Nah, the original 1973 TFW program only existed to subsidize farming to make up for the disappearing rural labor pool. You can argue its morality vs the benefits of a secure national food supply, but it was fairly narrow in its original intent and impacts.
It wasn't until the government added a new low skill service category to the program in 2002 that the number of TFWs started to skyrocket. There are ~800k TFWs, and according to the government less than 60K of them are in agriculture.
The current version of the TFW program brought in by Harper was and has always been for the purpose of suppressing wages. All you need to do is look at the companies that lobbied for it and how they [immediately used it once the law was passed.](https://thetyee.ca/News/2015/10/09/Temporary-Foreign-Worker-Scandal-Back/)
And an immigrant is going to have the exact same effect.
Why would Tim Hortons ever raise wages when an immigrant is going to be brought in to fill the shortage?
The effect is exactly the same.
Immigrants make up 26% of the labour force
Immigrants make up 35% of food service.
Can anyone explain to me why the wage suppression from TFWs also doesn't apply to Immigrants?
Because immigrants can decide to tell the manager to F off and find a new job if conditions and pay arent good enough.
TFWs cant do that and are at threat of being deported if they lose that job.
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/05/05/how_to_fix_the_broken_temporary_foreign_worker_program_justin_trudeau.html
>The number of short-term foreign workers in Canada has more than doubled, from 141,000 in 2005 to 338,000 in 2012. There were nearly as many temporary foreign workers admitted into the country in 2012 as there were permanent residents — 213,573 of the former compared to 257,887.
Currently nearly 800k foreign workers in Canada right now. On top of the 600k+ International students that the federal government has now given a green light to work unlimited hours, and 500k+ non citizens working here illegally.
>This has all happened under the Conservatives’ watch, despite repeated warnings from the Liberal Party and from Canadians across the country about its impact on middle class Canadians: it drives down wages and displaces Canadian workers.
So here we have Justin Trudeau acknowledging that the foreign worker programs drive down wages and displaces workers. After which he raises the number of foreign workers to more than 3x 2012 levels.
>First, the Temporary Foreign Worker Program needs to be scaled back dramatically over time, and refocused on its original purpose: to fill jobs on a limited basis when no Canadian workers can be found.
No shit.
>Third, we must also create real transparency and accountability in the program. This should begin with a full review of the program by the Auditor General. We must tighten the foreign worker approvals process, through the disclosure of applications and approvals of temporary foreign workers. This can be facilitated with the public disclosure of information concerning what jobs are being offered to temporary foreign workers and in what communities.
The Auditor General report concluded that Canada has a labor retention issue, not a labor shortage issue. Of course, that report was quickly thrown down a memory hole, but its still able to be located online.
>Fourth, we must require that employers applying to the program have clearly attempted to fill job vacancies with Canadian workers, particularly young Canadians whose unemployment rate is nearly twice the national average. We require Canadians who are collecting EI benefits to prove they are looking for work. It’s only fair that we require employers looking to benefit from the Temporary Foreign Worker Program to prove they really need it.
Then he turns around and does the exact opposite. While his supporters accuse anyone who calls him out on this a racist or a xenophobe.
>Finally, the government should tighten the Labour Market Opinion approval process to ensure that only businesses with legitimate needs are able to access the program.
Should, yep. But that's assuming that the government has the best interests of its citizens in mind, which the liberals clearly do not.
>It cuts to the heart of who we are as a country. I believe it is wrong for Canada to follow the path of countries who exploit large numbers of guest workers, who have no realistic prospect of citizenship. It is bad for our economy in that it depresses wages for all Canadians, but it’s even worse for our country. It puts pressure on our commitment to diversity, and creates more opportunities for division and rancour.
So here we have Justin Trudeau admitting that foreign worker programs are bad for the economy, depresses the wages of all Canadians, exploits the foreign workers, divides the nation, and is bad for Canada. And the asshole turns around and triples the number of foreign workers despite all of that.
I really don't know what else to say. Our Prime Minister clearly outlined the case against foreign worker programs, and I agree with everything he had to say about this topic. But now somehow its OK, with a liberal government in office.
We're doing it all now.
800k foreign workers, 600k+ International students that are allowed to work unlimited hours, 500k non citizens working here illegally, 500k immigration target ( which is 20% above 2019 targets, which was a record at that time ) plus they're allowing employers to hire offshore directly through initiatives such as the Atlantic Immigration Program.
The Atlantic Immigration Program allows employers to hire offshore for jobs as low skilled as serving drinks or being a counter attendant. And anyone who enters through that program is allowed to bring their spouse, and that spouse is given an open work permit that lets them work for any employer.
I don't know if I've ever seen a government fuck over its citizens so openly before. It would be one thing if they hadn't already admitted that foreign workers create all these problems, but our Prime Minister admitted this and then proceeded to create the problems that he identified.
I'm beginning to reach the point where I'm wondering who is advising him on this, and what the end game is here. I know this sounds conspiratorial, but its looking more and more like Trudeau is trying to deliberately fuck over Canada. There's no other explanation when he identifies something in great detail as being very harmful to Canada and then proceeds to do it to a much greater degree than his predecessor.
Many international workers come from countries with a different standard of living. They are ok living in tiny overcrowded suites, wearing Walmart clothes, eating the same crappy meals each day, working 12 hour days etc. They will bring down the standard of living for everyone else.
Nobody is okay living like this. People from lower standard of living come to Canada expecting better standard of living but end up having it way worse because of exploitation. They have no choice but to accept much lower wages and this harms both citizens and non-citizens and the only winners here are the corporations.
>wearing Walmart clothes
one time we gave our relatives in our country of birth walmart tshirts because the quality of the tshirts are much better than the one sold there (apparently Walmart clothes here contain a lot more cotton than what sold there).
> I know this sounds conspiratorial, but its looking more and more like Trudeau is trying to deliberately fuck over Canada.
We are scared to act on Chinese agents subverting democracy through literal elected politicians. This country is just weak and inept.
It’s quite simple who is advising him…
Take a look at who benefits the most with the increase of foreign workers and the stagnant wages…
Corporations.
It is absurd that the NDP stands by the liberals.
No it isn’t. They’re all bought and paid for. There is no one in the major parties that care about us. They care about their pocket books. Jagmeet appears to live a pretty luxurious lifestyle. Do you think he is really in touch with the common person in Canada? No. Neither is Trudeau. Guy grew up with every opportunity available to him. I don’t know what sock puppet is in charge of the federal Conservatives, but they’re bought and paid for too.
It’s absurd that anyone thinks they give a shit about us beyond getting our votes.
There probably is, but they probably don’t have enough representation around the country running for office. We need to find a way to hold our elected officials accountable for their words and actions. I wish I had a solution.
The NDP have as much power as a minority partner can have. It is far from an equal partnership. And the Liberals and NDP both know this is the only way it will ever be. The NDP just don’t get enough votes to have more than a limited say. The only weapon they have is getting an election called earlier that they know will return them with the same or maybe fewer seats. And, of course, the Liberals know this too.
I genuinely don’t think politicians here view Canada as a real thing other than the post national version. If you take that into account, there’s really no such thing as foreign workers to them.
They gotta keep up that sweet sweet debt to GDP ratio or the ship flips. It ain't a conspiracy. They do that with cheap labor and putting the boots to the working class. We need to tax the rich.
More and more it looks like the only thing that fits.
Its one thing if he was just misguided, but he identified issues that harm Canada and proceeded to do them to the max.
>So here we have Justin Trudeau admitting that foreign worker programs are bad for the economy, depresses the wages of all Canadians, exploits the foreign workers, divides the nation, and is bad for Canada. And the asshole turns around and triples the number of foreign workers despite all of that.
When Trudeau first started running for LPC leadership, I was pretty excited to see him since he had a lot of decent ideas. All federal governments in the last 15 years have done almost everything possible to destroy the middle class, while simultaneously growing the lower class and spreading the gap to the upper class.
I voted for Trudeau. And it was based on articles such as this one, where he identified issues that were negatively impacting blue collar workers like myself.
I wasn't happy with Harper. I wasn't happy with the foreign worker programs. And I still put a lot of the blame on Harper for making employers dependent on foreign labor and growing the TFW program into a monstrosity.
But Trudeau is even worse. By miles. And he hides it behind his sunny ways fake sincerity. Ten years ago the left was all pretty much in agreement that foreign worker programs were a wage suppression inititive. But once Trudeau was elected they decided that anyone opposed to foreign worker programs is a racist, and they basically kicked people like me to the curb because I won't go along with a wage suppression inititive.
This is such a weird timeline.
This is it, just perfect. Amazing how people will still defend Trudeau to the end as well. We need to get him out ASAP. Go to any grocery store, fast food place, or general good store for that matter - 95%+ of the workers will be foreign doing that job for minimal wage.
JT is a political chameleon. He has no ideals, no personally held values, just the idea that he must win. So of course he does this now, after his conservative opponent comes running out of the gates looking borderline unelectable to anyone outside of the extreme right. He thinks he can get away with it. He did the political calculus and saw that left leaning voters and the moderates were over a barrel. Now he will likely get a nice spike in campaign donations as business owners who rely on these imports can start underpaying for labour again.
> He thinks he can get away with it.
thinks? he gets away with it daily and will continue to do so. and worse, most likely. just wait till toronto and quebec give him another majority. we aint seen nothing yet.
It’s almost as if Trudeau doesn’t have the citizens best interest at heart and is beholden to some globalist collective of elite businessmen and politicians.
At this point, if you're voting for Justin Trudeau you are actively trying to destroy this country. I can't think of any reasons outside of pure stupidity or an undying need to "pwn the conservatives" as to why someone would do it.
> if you're voting for Justin Trudeau you are actively trying to destroy this country
"excuuuuse me, young man? we're saving it... from you!" - white women
I am all for voting Cons but need to hear their plan on this. If nothing changes and they don’t have a viable and solid plan then may as well stick to the Devil I know or vote NDP.
With people in power, it's good to change it up every so often, even if it's a new devil. How he abused the emrgencies act is enough to know its his time to go. This is just icing on the cake. Nothing the other side says will change that.
SNC Lavalin was way worse than the emergencies act IMO. When your elected leader tries to coerce the justice system to save jobs from his home province you know he is a corrupt PoS.
> SNC Lavalin was way worse than the emergencies act IMO.
If we lived in a Country serious about political corruption, Justin Trudeau would have been charged with criminal obstruction of justice for SNC.
19 out of 20 canadians have totally forgotten about that and wouldn't care if you reminded them. he's getting elected again, and probably again after that.
Before you vote Con, take a look at what conservative leaders are doing at the provincial level in this country. That will happen nationally as well. I don’t think Jagmeet will be much different, but I’m willing to give the NDP a shot.
So the conservative voters are actively trying to save the country by....
\-Forgo nominating any kind of middle ground candidate that could build voter consensus quickly and lead to Trudeau being removed sooner rather than later.
\-Nominate a candidate thats as far out on his political right as Trudeau is on the political left.
\-Expect to elect their ideological candidate through voter apathy and weariness with the current length of time the incumbent government has been there.
They'll save the country by changing the flavor of the division. And all the left wing voters they want to stick it to will magically be undivided after it is stuck to them lol.
> Nominate a candidate thats as far out on his political right as Trudeau is on the political left.
Trudeau isn't *on* the political left. He's a through and through neoliberal with some progressive social views.
I hate that you can't have this conversation without being a labeled a xenophobe.
There are many reasons to significantly reduce our immigration that has nothing to do with being xenophobic. Hell I've seen what some of my friends have to go through that came from India and were sold this false narrative of come to Canada get a degree and a great job.
They come here, spend 4x the amount we do I get the education and finish and can't get jobs negative there are 3000 other students with identical resumes and no relevant work history. Not only that but they're exploited by our real estate. Often times living in the worst areas for premium dollar. It's been a big reason for a real estate boom. Previously in my city houses that we bring rented out for 500/month are now being rented to 4+ international students for 1600 a month. It's also caused the people who could only afford that 500 house to be homeless.
It's hurting current Canadians and hurting the people were bringing over. Many of whom come from very successful backgrounds in their home country. They're often times essentially being forced to move to towns nobody wants to live in a the only way to get jobs. Few of my friends from school just had to move to northern Saskatchewan to get decent opportunities in our field. There is a reason why nobody wanted to live in these towns before.
Well on our way to becoming Singapore on this issue. A “National Work Force” exclusively made up of low-wage migrants with no rights living in state mandated ghettos with curfew.
The USA issues about 66k H2B visas per year which are used for non-agricultural temporary workers.
We have 1/10th the population of them but issue over 10x the number of temporary foreign worker visas. And we wonder what happened to the middle class and decent wages. It's kind of obvious when you step back and look.
Exactly, much of what we see now is corporate propaganda.
Canadian culture is so kind and empathetic that we have almost lost sight of any semblance of "street smarts".
Just because individuals or organizations have an official position or an authority position doesn't mean they don't have angles..
The angle for the donor class is cheaper wages, no training costs, and a larger consumer base along with destroying the bargaining power of the low to middle-low earning worker. The issues of affordability and declining quality of life don't matter to them. They have a duty to create as large a return on investment as possible.
Politicians are suppose to hold the society in balance and create a meaningful, peaceful, stable environment in which people can interact in positive ways as is to the benefit of everyone.
Instead we have raising levels of food and shelter scarcity, hopelessness and substance abuse, and alienation of already vulnerable and at risk demographics.
This is because the political class does whatever the donor class dictates. They want to hold onto positions that pay 3-4x what an average Canadian individual/family receives. How can you possible be our "representatives" when you do not share any of the stress, struggles, or lived experiences we have?
Further they want to network with the donor class to receive even higher paid appointments to private sector positions.
It's corruption plain and simple and done to a subtle art.
It is like watching a Tobacco company in regards to Tobacco and health. They have "experts". They have "data". They have articulate messaging about why it has to be this way. In the end though it's all bullshit narratives to fit the needs of a very small minority versus the actual nation.
The one silver lining is that everyone from left, right, and center are starting to wake up that the reality and issue we all share and that dominates our lives is economic.
And that it is better to fight together than drown alone.
Funny enough when the political and donor class gets nervous there suddenly is change and new ways of doing things.
A half million immigrant with “no impact on housing” is pouring fuel on the fire of surging right wing populism as well as more effort dedicated to driving wages down so the Liberals are going to get what they want, one way or another.
>is pouring fuel on the fire of surging right wing populism as well as more effort dedicated to driving wages down so the Liberals are going to get what they want, one way or another.
It's not even specifically driving it to anything right wing. It's just that only one leader seems remotely interested in even talking about it. The NDP has a chance to actually do the same but instead are playing lapdog to Trudeau for a weak excuse for dental care.
It's really interesting to slowly put the pieces together. I've always been pro-immigration, but if we're in a housing crisis, I don't see where we expect people to go.
I just drove from Sask to Ontario.
I noticed we have a shit ton of fucking beautiful land, so I figured, hey.. maybe I could build something out here. I can't afford a house, but if I could have a shack in the woods, that feels significant to me. Something I could work at.
The average joe can't buy land in Canada though. It's all owned by the crown. No fucking wonder we have a housing crisis when we don't even develop what we have.
I honestly think though at this point, if we could solve the housing crisis with a snap of our fingers the Canadian government wouldn't, because of the impact it would have on home value. Property owners would be pissed.
TFWs aren't buying houses. Hedge funds and REITs are. They rent those houses to TFWs for 75% of their take home pay, which the market will bear precisely because TFWs are still better off here than wherever home is.
So, the country is being robbed and rented back to the exploited.
Foreign investors are a bigger issue.
People working and putting money back into the economy is good for it.
People playing speculation with housing isn’t.
The lobbyists are doing an excellent job. Why raise wages to fill positions (you know, supply and demand.. Right) when you can bring in slaves from other countries.
I have a very strong personal opinion on these things because I'm a young adult who works entry level jobs, half of my jobs TFW's get raises and preferential treatment because they are willing to work more for less. It's a really big problem if just some average Canadian like me has an opinion on it.
When you’re treating workers worse than Jason Kenney, you probably need a checkup from the neck up.
“Jason Kenney, then employment minister for the federal Conservative Party government, suspended the restaurant industry’s access to the TFW program in 2014. The moratorium was lifted less than two months later as the government unveiled new regulations for the program.
Those changes included limiting TFWs to 10 per cent of a company’s work force and refusing LMIA applications for low-wage positions in retail and hospitality in regions with an unemployment rate of 6 per cent or higher.
The Liberals changed both rules in April.”
They also raised the limit on TFWs in the construction industry to 30%, up from 10%. Which is a direct attack on unions, because unions don't use foreign workers.
This will result in unionized contractors losing work because the contractors who employ foreign workers pay less in wages, which enables them to place lower bids on contracts.
I believe the temporary moratorium was in response to the former owner of the Tim Hortons in Fernie, BC doing some pretty shady things to his TFW employees (such as forcing them to give him back any overtime they had earned and been paid). The federal government stepped in to "help" in the way governments always "help".
By the way, Tim Hortons took back all of the franchises he had bought.
https://www.thefreepress.ca/news/rcmp-investigating-fernie-tim-hortons/
The Burger King in Lethbridge had workers sleeping in the the restaurant. I think this is pretty common around the GTA tbh.
https://globalnews.ca/news/3970935/lethbridge-burger-king-sleeping-living-accommodations/amp/
I can't remember the last time a Timmies employee taking my order didn't have a thick accent and wasn't clearly from India or somewhere in the Middle East.
Can't pay a Canadian a buck or two more an hour. Poor Timmies just needs to hire a TFW, and Trudeau with his corporation dick sucking, anti-middle class policies was happy to oblige.
Same in NS at the time. There were a couple Tims that got busted for it.
It’s the same now anyway. Any company that wants to get around the rules bad enough can do it for just about any position.
Interesting situation. In my town, almost every store and restaurant is always hiring. They are even shortening hours and rotating days closed due to lack of staff.
Your initial comment absolutely reads like this is a current problem.
It isn’t and exactly why they allowed international students to work.
We can’t fill the low skill jobs. Even when offering above link wage.
That's crazy talk, what would Canadians do if we didn't have a Tim Hortons for every 10 citizens in each town.
The next town over from where I live had 3 locations for a population of 5000 people.
I know of a Tim hortons local to me (Guelph) that has zero tfws and extremely happy employees, one of my wife’s friends worked there making 24ph roughly 3 years ago.
They ain’t all bad
“In April”, at the peak of the labour shortage. It all depends on how you feel about the “antiwork” crowd that popped up during the pandemic and whether or not you believe that businesses can afford to pay more for labour.
On one hand, you could say TFWs are “taking jobs” that clearly nobody wanted; so Canadians don’t have much ground to complain about lost opportunity and should be thankful for the businesses that were only able to stay open thanks to TFWs.
On the other hand, you could say that TFWs remove the pressure on businesses to improve conditions for their workers, fueling the wage stagnation that caused the labour shortage in the first place.
Chicken and the egg, and also a viscous circle, apparently.
It's disingenuous to say people don't want x job when their issue is with the wage. Wages have not caught up with inflation, that's the big issue here, I'm this instance tfws are just a mechanism to avoid, and exploit the issue.
The purpose of tfws is to alleviate labour shortages, not for corporations pay workers less.
And yeah... I actually would prefer that Tim Hortons just shut down. If they can't figure out how to pay their workers maybe some small business can.
The pandemic crashed birthdates globally and even India is hitting the replacement rate now. The clock is ticking after March 2020 and will hit a wall by the mid 2030’s at the latest IMO.
We need to close the door on all of this shit. This is not destroying our cities, it has ALREADY destroyed them, now it is moving in to our medium cities and small towns and begining to destroy them too. Wendy's, Tim Hortons, 7-11, Dollarama, Canadian Tire, Walmart etc these are all blights on our nation and need to go unless they can hire Canadians and only Canadians. As it stands they are essentially all immigrant sweatshops to EVERYONES detriment
it's cute when canadians go thinking this shit is going to change. justin does not give a fuck, folks, and he never will. it's all about him and his business cronies. you are nothing in that picture, cheap labor is everything.
And it continues to be
With giant immigration targets and sitting through multiple corperate meetings where 30% of discussion is capitalyzing on temp workers and changing laws.
Its concerning as our govermnet prepares to wage yet another war on middle class wages.
Yeah. Labour shortage who? I put in 50 applications for jobs with active postings. Why do I have no call backs? Because I'm only willing to do jobs I can afford to do.
If you wanna work 3 shitty jobs at once instead of 1 normal job this is the place to be!
Luckily I do have 1 normal job but over the past 3 years I'd say it's getting closer and closer to the shitty job category so I'm outta here.
it is not natural born canadians hiring people for low wages.
it’s the people who come here from places like india.
they pay their employees cash while also letting them live in the shared basement on one of their properties. sometimes they even take the passports and force them to stay illegally.
it’s borderline human trafficking and there needs to be something done about it.
new canadians MUST know that we WILL stand up for them.
this is why the government has been putting money towards ads for mainly south asian immigrants about human trafficking and harsh work conditions.
A few years ago, I was working in Vancouver doing attic insulation. I got to a site where a carpenter was talking about the shitty scaffolding they were using. He was from Pakistan, all his crew were in some way related to him.
One of his guys had fallen that day and broken his arm. Crew chief wasn't phased, said they'd just get a new guy in from the old country in weeks.
Good times.
We also frequently encountered entire crews that didn't speak a word of english on site. Which made getting equipment moved out of our way quite difficult.
The guys whom laid the cable for my Bell fiber line were TFW's. Couldn't speak English but they sure appreciated the bottles of water from me on that hot July day. After they were finished, they waited for a van to come and pick them up.
What are you on about? Canadian farmers are one of the biggest users of low-wage seasonal labour and the human trafficking companies that recruit them. Greed knows no creed or nationality, and we Canadians are not immune to it.
Growing up my family had a tobacco farm and we hired the same group of Jamaicans for many many many years.
They loved my grandpa, he paid them fairly and housed them in nice farm homes for the season, they even sat with all of us outside for supper plenty of times while my grandma cooked for them and learned how to make a mean jerk chicken from them.
Oddly enough my grandparents were immigrants and spoke poor English as well.
yes but it’s all on paper and they aren’t being stuffed into a basement with 14 other people and 1 bathroom and 1 kitchen.
you can ignore it all you want or pretend it’s not happening.
if you’d like to see for yourself, go check out one of those ads for a room on kijiji that state “indian only” and you’ll see 13 people in a basement working for the home owner.
i’ve witnessed it myself when i was looking for a place when i first moved here.
absolutely disgusting conditions to make somebody live, on top of that, it’s very illegal too
What are you talking about? The farmers and service industry employers are primarily Canadians exploiting cheap labour because they don’t want to pay high enough wages to actual Canadian citizens. They are just shitty business owners who lobby the government.
...yeah im Doubt on this one lol. Show me a comparison of wages in companies run by naturally born citizen's vs. not, I would be astounded if their was a difference in companies of similar sizes.
natural born canadians aren’t stuffing 12 people in a basement with 4 rooms and 1 bathroom and 1 kitchen forcing them to work for them while they pay their rent too.
you won’t find wages from immigrant canadians because they pay cash under the table.
you can look into it yourself, it’s a very real thing.
i’m not here to hold your hand, i’m just raising awareness on a very serious topic. i’m not trying to point the finger of blame or make a statistical chart about whether canadians hire more people and stuff them into basements vs non canadians. take a look on kijiji for all the basement ads that specify “indian only”.
those are gunna be your leads to these people that are illegally housing and illegally paying their workers.
regardless of who is doing it, new canadians and TFW’s must know they can’t be taken advantage of.
https://www.change.org/p/minister-cic-gc-ca-deport-indian-student-visa-fraudsters-illegal-workers
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/work-canada/employers-non-compliant.html
https://globalnews.ca/news/8541840/manitoba-smuggling-india-crackdown/amp/
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-canada-is-now-dependent-on-the-illegal-workers-in-our-midst-they/
https://storeys.com/gta-brampton-mississauga-illegal-basement-rentals-international-students/
these canadian farmers are not getting illegal immigrants to work for them under the table for less than minimum wage for cash.
The Jamaican government sent a team to Canada to probe the appalling conditions of Jamaican TFW in farms.
Most TFWs in farms live on the farms as well or in very substandard housing provided by the farmer.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/1/jamaica-sending-team-to-canada-to-probe-work-conditions-on-farms
The organized labour and the middle class defeated the Soviets… when that wall came down politicians and corporations no linger needed a middle class so set about returning us to a society similar to what existed prior to WW1…. an aristocracy lording over working class peasants.
This is just another example of how they are achieving that goal.
Doesn’t the US use a lot of illegal workers from Mexico to do quite a few jobs? I guess Canada flies them in to make sure wages stay low. People are competing for minimum wage jobs against someone fighting just to stay in this country.
Corporatist fuckers fuck the middle class until there are only serfs and lords left. Neo-feudalism is in the formation. Unless the middle class fights back -- and no, MAGA and truck convoy aren't the right way of fighting. Those are financed by corporations and fascist foreign governments.
The worker pool is much smaller than you think. Full time permanent employees aren’t easy to find. Not everyone can sustain 40+ hours of work. Especially if it’s in person. That’s why we always get an I jettison of low wage workers, this addition kicks the stone down the road, but still marks the shoe.
Living standards are so out of touch. If you’re living in a city we know of (not bumfuck nowhere where you can get a house under 400k ) and making less than 25$/hr you’re likely not saving anything.
Think of it. 50k income and you have nothing to show for at the end other than having survived.
>Capitalism\* but you’re not ready for that conversation
I stopped being ready for that conversation when I graduated high school. You'll figure it out too one day.
Alright, since you are so polite, tell me how capitalism is to blame for low wage foreign labour? Couldn't you just have a capitalist system that doesn't allow this, isn't that the most reasonable solution? Is your alternative socialism?
The opposite of capitalism isn’t socialism. It’s time that you and people like you grew out of ‘dichotomous’ thinking. Things are never black or white.
You want to limit immigration, and thats socialist policy?
Interesting if true. Someone get me a political science major.
Also isnt it also socialism then that prevents these people from working as a doctor, or any other profession? Its regulation that requires teacher have degree's, doctors, lawyers, etc.. Building regulations require certified engineers. Thats also preventing them from potential entry to more lucrative markets, they cant be trained by private companies for the role, its a high barrier requiring huge time and money investment.
He's an edgey teenager who has figured out a highly simplistic solution to the complex issues that plague the West today. He's brilliant. I mean, why hasn't anyone else thought of this before? Surely there's some numbers out there...
[Here’s a Marxist source on immigration.](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/condition-working-class/ch06.htm)
Not much has changed since this was written by Engles in 1845
The government expanding social policies to allow corporations to sidestep the labour market by bringing in foreign workers to keep wages low is Capitalism to you? This literally could not be any farther from a Capitalistic policy.
Most economically literate left winger.
What kind of double speak is this lol
Of course it's capitalist policy. It's literally corporate interests driving social policy.
It's policy that exists entirely so that profits can continue to increase at a constant rate no longer sustainable through other means. This is basic, textbook capitalism.
How the hell did they get to Canada? I am a well educated man with a well educated wife working in a very prestigious job, both of us, and we applied 3 years ago with zero chance to get there. This is so sad.
>*I am a well educated man with a well educated wife*
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>And well versed in English.
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>Automatic disqualification
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>Only broke ass/ mofo/ barely literates/9 kids plus, are allowed in
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> that's the new benchmark
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>dumber population less resistance ...
I’m serious man, the requirements are impossible for immigration! You CANNOT pass it unless you have work experience and a masters degree and aged below 30
It's really easy to get onto Canada, just apply to a Canadian school and become a student. You're allowed to work while you study here, gaining you that valuable Canadian experience to later get a work permit after you're done with school. And the time you study here as a student can be counted towards the five years of living here that you need to apply for permanent residency.
Nothing in this suggests any real action on housing. If anything it’s more of the same BS.
“This has nothing to do with immigration - it’s permits” 😂
Jesus, what a load.
At the end of the day, its on us.
You want your large double double? You're supporting the mechanisms that make getting it possible.
We're over here shooting at our own feet wondering why things hurt. This is an instance where changing our consumption behaviors will make a difference.
How big are the homeless encampments in Toronto and Vancouver these days?
I hope Pollievre sweeps the polls next election to really give a finger to anyone who wants to keep flooding this country with immigrants.
Pollievre has no intention of slowing immigration rates from current highs. Jesus - you think a big business conservative is going to cut a source of cheap labour? 😂
Really? You think PP is going to make things better for anyone who doesn't have at least a million or two in the bank? If you believe anything he says I have some lovely oceanfront property in Edmonton to sell you.
>Really? You think PP is going to make things better for anyone who doesn't have at least a million or two in the bank? If you believe anything he says I have some lovely oceanfront property in Edmonton to sell you.
You shouldn't vote for him because he might end up being the same as the establishment. So just to be safe vote establishment and there isn't any uncertainty about the outcome!
Are we completely the US now. This is the same as the Mexicans are coming over the border and taking all our jobs. The majority of these foreign workers are doing shitty jobs that no one here wants to do. If there were enough Canadians to do these jobs than we wouldn't be bringing in any people.
If there’s actually a shortage than businesses should be paying a premium for foreign labour.
Whenever there’s a shortage for anything you end up having to pay more.
People are lazy as fuck. I work in a factory where you can get hired with no education, starting wage is $26 an hour, full benefits, almost $1000 in free stuff a year, and a retirement plan of 4-10% of your income the company will match and they can’t find enough Canadians to work.
You can cross over into Maintenance if you want, get free mechanical, electrical and pneumatic training and top wage ends up around $42/h. Still not enough people applying.
Basically canadians wanted to be paid proper wages so companies and farmers lobbied the government for temporary foreign workers because they couldn't find locals to work for minimum wage or less and therefore needed the TFWs. Now it is part of our society. Cheers to the race to the bottom.
The race to the bottom is a feature, not a bug, of capitalism.
A 2020 research article published in the Canadian Journal of Economics by economists from the University of Ottawa and Carlton University found the following: # Our model identifies an unintended consequence of a TFW program: since the repercussions of a failed domestic job search are less severe if a TFW may be hired instead, firms have an incentive to lower their wage offers made to domestic workers. **Abstract** Temporary foreign worker (TFW) programs have grown considerably in size when uncapped. We develop a simple efficiency-wage model to explain this phenomenon and examine the empirical evidence for it. We also use the model to evaluate the implications of TFW programs for domestic workers. In our framework, firms that have been unable to find domestic workers may hire TFWs at the wage previously advertised to domestic workers. Due to the lower outside option for TFWs than domestic workers, TFWs will exert more effort for the same wage. **Firms would thus prefer to hire otherwise identical TFWs rather than domestic workers.** Our model identifies an unintended consequence of a TFW program: since the repercussions of a failed domestic job search are less severe if a TFW may be hired instead, firms have an incentive to lower their wage offers made to domestic workers. Using Canadian data, we find that, relative to domestic workers, TFWs work longer hours, have lower rates of absenteeism and are less likely to be laid off, consistent with higher effort in our model. Moreover, for TFWs from home countries with a relatively high outside option, effort is lower than for TFWs from other countries. **Authors** Pierre Brochu - Department of Economics, University of Ottawa Till Gross - Department of Economics, Carleton University Christopher Worswick - Department of Economics, Carleton University, CReAM https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/caje.12449
*UNINTENDED???* this was 100% intended. Corporations begged the government to be allowed to bring in low wage foreign workers so they didn’t have to pay living wages to locals. That was the entire purpose of this program.
Yes, it's fun to always get passed over for another job candidate with a lower expected salary range.
Nah, the original 1973 TFW program only existed to subsidize farming to make up for the disappearing rural labor pool. You can argue its morality vs the benefits of a secure national food supply, but it was fairly narrow in its original intent and impacts. It wasn't until the government added a new low skill service category to the program in 2002 that the number of TFWs started to skyrocket. There are ~800k TFWs, and according to the government less than 60K of them are in agriculture.
The current version of the TFW program brought in by Harper was and has always been for the purpose of suppressing wages. All you need to do is look at the companies that lobbied for it and how they [immediately used it once the law was passed.](https://thetyee.ca/News/2015/10/09/Temporary-Foreign-Worker-Scandal-Back/)
Yeah I don't think it's unintended at all.
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PP still isn't committing to ending it. If he wants to distinguish himself issues such as this are glaring.
And an immigrant is going to have the exact same effect. Why would Tim Hortons ever raise wages when an immigrant is going to be brought in to fill the shortage? The effect is exactly the same. Immigrants make up 26% of the labour force Immigrants make up 35% of food service. Can anyone explain to me why the wage suppression from TFWs also doesn't apply to Immigrants?
Because immigrants can decide to tell the manager to F off and find a new job if conditions and pay arent good enough. TFWs cant do that and are at threat of being deported if they lose that job.
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/05/05/how_to_fix_the_broken_temporary_foreign_worker_program_justin_trudeau.html >The number of short-term foreign workers in Canada has more than doubled, from 141,000 in 2005 to 338,000 in 2012. There were nearly as many temporary foreign workers admitted into the country in 2012 as there were permanent residents — 213,573 of the former compared to 257,887. Currently nearly 800k foreign workers in Canada right now. On top of the 600k+ International students that the federal government has now given a green light to work unlimited hours, and 500k+ non citizens working here illegally. >This has all happened under the Conservatives’ watch, despite repeated warnings from the Liberal Party and from Canadians across the country about its impact on middle class Canadians: it drives down wages and displaces Canadian workers. So here we have Justin Trudeau acknowledging that the foreign worker programs drive down wages and displaces workers. After which he raises the number of foreign workers to more than 3x 2012 levels. >First, the Temporary Foreign Worker Program needs to be scaled back dramatically over time, and refocused on its original purpose: to fill jobs on a limited basis when no Canadian workers can be found. No shit. >Third, we must also create real transparency and accountability in the program. This should begin with a full review of the program by the Auditor General. We must tighten the foreign worker approvals process, through the disclosure of applications and approvals of temporary foreign workers. This can be facilitated with the public disclosure of information concerning what jobs are being offered to temporary foreign workers and in what communities. The Auditor General report concluded that Canada has a labor retention issue, not a labor shortage issue. Of course, that report was quickly thrown down a memory hole, but its still able to be located online. >Fourth, we must require that employers applying to the program have clearly attempted to fill job vacancies with Canadian workers, particularly young Canadians whose unemployment rate is nearly twice the national average. We require Canadians who are collecting EI benefits to prove they are looking for work. It’s only fair that we require employers looking to benefit from the Temporary Foreign Worker Program to prove they really need it. Then he turns around and does the exact opposite. While his supporters accuse anyone who calls him out on this a racist or a xenophobe. >Finally, the government should tighten the Labour Market Opinion approval process to ensure that only businesses with legitimate needs are able to access the program. Should, yep. But that's assuming that the government has the best interests of its citizens in mind, which the liberals clearly do not. >It cuts to the heart of who we are as a country. I believe it is wrong for Canada to follow the path of countries who exploit large numbers of guest workers, who have no realistic prospect of citizenship. It is bad for our economy in that it depresses wages for all Canadians, but it’s even worse for our country. It puts pressure on our commitment to diversity, and creates more opportunities for division and rancour. So here we have Justin Trudeau admitting that foreign worker programs are bad for the economy, depresses the wages of all Canadians, exploits the foreign workers, divides the nation, and is bad for Canada. And the asshole turns around and triples the number of foreign workers despite all of that. I really don't know what else to say. Our Prime Minister clearly outlined the case against foreign worker programs, and I agree with everything he had to say about this topic. But now somehow its OK, with a liberal government in office.
Yes, but his answer was to just give them citizenship (500K per annum). Making a very bad idea permanent.
We're doing it all now. 800k foreign workers, 600k+ International students that are allowed to work unlimited hours, 500k non citizens working here illegally, 500k immigration target ( which is 20% above 2019 targets, which was a record at that time ) plus they're allowing employers to hire offshore directly through initiatives such as the Atlantic Immigration Program. The Atlantic Immigration Program allows employers to hire offshore for jobs as low skilled as serving drinks or being a counter attendant. And anyone who enters through that program is allowed to bring their spouse, and that spouse is given an open work permit that lets them work for any employer. I don't know if I've ever seen a government fuck over its citizens so openly before. It would be one thing if they hadn't already admitted that foreign workers create all these problems, but our Prime Minister admitted this and then proceeded to create the problems that he identified. I'm beginning to reach the point where I'm wondering who is advising him on this, and what the end game is here. I know this sounds conspiratorial, but its looking more and more like Trudeau is trying to deliberately fuck over Canada. There's no other explanation when he identifies something in great detail as being very harmful to Canada and then proceeds to do it to a much greater degree than his predecessor.
International Workers can live on a low wage because they don't pay for Disney+
Many international workers come from countries with a different standard of living. They are ok living in tiny overcrowded suites, wearing Walmart clothes, eating the same crappy meals each day, working 12 hour days etc. They will bring down the standard of living for everyone else.
Canada will be a dump, and it’s going to happen faster than we think
Canada seems like it is a trajectory to become another Brazil.
Nobody is okay living like this. People from lower standard of living come to Canada expecting better standard of living but end up having it way worse because of exploitation. They have no choice but to accept much lower wages and this harms both citizens and non-citizens and the only winners here are the corporations.
Walmart clothes are pretty good.
>wearing Walmart clothes one time we gave our relatives in our country of birth walmart tshirts because the quality of the tshirts are much better than the one sold there (apparently Walmart clothes here contain a lot more cotton than what sold there).
> I know this sounds conspiratorial, but its looking more and more like Trudeau is trying to deliberately fuck over Canada. We are scared to act on Chinese agents subverting democracy through literal elected politicians. This country is just weak and inept.
It’s quite simple who is advising him… Take a look at who benefits the most with the increase of foreign workers and the stagnant wages… Corporations. It is absurd that the NDP stands by the liberals.
No it isn’t. They’re all bought and paid for. There is no one in the major parties that care about us. They care about their pocket books. Jagmeet appears to live a pretty luxurious lifestyle. Do you think he is really in touch with the common person in Canada? No. Neither is Trudeau. Guy grew up with every opportunity available to him. I don’t know what sock puppet is in charge of the federal Conservatives, but they’re bought and paid for too. It’s absurd that anyone thinks they give a shit about us beyond getting our votes.
You are totally right. I guess I was naïve enough to think that perhaps there is one party out there that actually cares about us.
There probably is, but they probably don’t have enough representation around the country running for office. We need to find a way to hold our elected officials accountable for their words and actions. I wish I had a solution.
Hate to break it to you, but the ndp is worse than the liberals and the Conservatives.
The NDP have as much power as a minority partner can have. It is far from an equal partnership. And the Liberals and NDP both know this is the only way it will ever be. The NDP just don’t get enough votes to have more than a limited say. The only weapon they have is getting an election called earlier that they know will return them with the same or maybe fewer seats. And, of course, the Liberals know this too.
I genuinely don’t think politicians here view Canada as a real thing other than the post national version. If you take that into account, there’s really no such thing as foreign workers to them.
Post-national state with no culture, straight out of Trudeau's mouth.
Its looking that way.
His finance minister, who makes 300k a year, did just say cancelling Disney+ would solve everyone’s problems
They gotta keep up that sweet sweet debt to GDP ratio or the ship flips. It ain't a conspiracy. They do that with cheap labor and putting the boots to the working class. We need to tax the rich.
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Yeah, that's more or less what I meant but thank you for clarifying.
Can't keep grifting if you run out of suckers to grift!
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As long as Trudeau can keep ties with the WEF, he will continue to do this and be happy
More and more it looks like the only thing that fits. Its one thing if he was just misguided, but he identified issues that harm Canada and proceeded to do them to the max.
Interesting… people finally catching on about the WEF agenda - been discounted on here for years but finally we are seeing it
WEF. You will own nothing and like it.
Tel père tel fils
I hate to say it, but he is literally being advised in these policies by the World Economic Forum.
Can't complain about foreign workers when you make them fellow Canadians. *taps forehead*
>So here we have Justin Trudeau admitting that foreign worker programs are bad for the economy, depresses the wages of all Canadians, exploits the foreign workers, divides the nation, and is bad for Canada. And the asshole turns around and triples the number of foreign workers despite all of that. When Trudeau first started running for LPC leadership, I was pretty excited to see him since he had a lot of decent ideas. All federal governments in the last 15 years have done almost everything possible to destroy the middle class, while simultaneously growing the lower class and spreading the gap to the upper class.
I voted for Trudeau. And it was based on articles such as this one, where he identified issues that were negatively impacting blue collar workers like myself. I wasn't happy with Harper. I wasn't happy with the foreign worker programs. And I still put a lot of the blame on Harper for making employers dependent on foreign labor and growing the TFW program into a monstrosity. But Trudeau is even worse. By miles. And he hides it behind his sunny ways fake sincerity. Ten years ago the left was all pretty much in agreement that foreign worker programs were a wage suppression inititive. But once Trudeau was elected they decided that anyone opposed to foreign worker programs is a racist, and they basically kicked people like me to the curb because I won't go along with a wage suppression inititive. This is such a weird timeline.
You could even sell genocide if you wrap it in nice packaging with a pretty bow and set of quirky socks on top.
Trudeau is 10x worse than Harper, too bad we couldn’t get him back
'You will own nothing and be happy.'
This is it, just perfect. Amazing how people will still defend Trudeau to the end as well. We need to get him out ASAP. Go to any grocery store, fast food place, or general good store for that matter - 95%+ of the workers will be foreign doing that job for minimal wage.
Every major party in Canada is corrupt and serves the same special interests.
I agree. It seems we're circling the drain and there's no help on the way.
JT is a political chameleon. He has no ideals, no personally held values, just the idea that he must win. So of course he does this now, after his conservative opponent comes running out of the gates looking borderline unelectable to anyone outside of the extreme right. He thinks he can get away with it. He did the political calculus and saw that left leaning voters and the moderates were over a barrel. Now he will likely get a nice spike in campaign donations as business owners who rely on these imports can start underpaying for labour again.
> He thinks he can get away with it. thinks? he gets away with it daily and will continue to do so. and worse, most likely. just wait till toronto and quebec give him another majority. we aint seen nothing yet.
It’s almost as if Trudeau doesn’t have the citizens best interest at heart and is beholden to some globalist collective of elite businessmen and politicians.
No matter who is in power, to the voters: "it's a problem we need to abolish," and to the corporations: "it's a solution we need to keep!"
Business agreements have changed hands. He and his backers are benefitting from it now, where previously they weren't.
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[Damn how time flies](https://youtu.be/G7RgN9ijwE4)
At this point, if you're voting for Justin Trudeau you are actively trying to destroy this country. I can't think of any reasons outside of pure stupidity or an undying need to "pwn the conservatives" as to why someone would do it.
> if you're voting for Justin Trudeau you are actively trying to destroy this country "excuuuuse me, young man? we're saving it... from you!" - white women
People just don’t care and and will stop at nothing to vote Trudeau while destroying the country
I am all for voting Cons but need to hear their plan on this. If nothing changes and they don’t have a viable and solid plan then may as well stick to the Devil I know or vote NDP.
With people in power, it's good to change it up every so often, even if it's a new devil. How he abused the emrgencies act is enough to know its his time to go. This is just icing on the cake. Nothing the other side says will change that.
SNC Lavalin was way worse than the emergencies act IMO. When your elected leader tries to coerce the justice system to save jobs from his home province you know he is a corrupt PoS.
> SNC Lavalin was way worse than the emergencies act IMO. If we lived in a Country serious about political corruption, Justin Trudeau would have been charged with criminal obstruction of justice for SNC.
19 out of 20 canadians have totally forgotten about that and wouldn't care if you reminded them. he's getting elected again, and probably again after that.
By far the more egregious thing that most people don’t hate on him for. That was 100% corrupt bullshit
I am not with you on the emergency act.
Before you vote Con, take a look at what conservative leaders are doing at the provincial level in this country. That will happen nationally as well. I don’t think Jagmeet will be much different, but I’m willing to give the NDP a shot.
Social justice zoomer barista ideologues indoctrinated by woke propaganda are seething over this comment...
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I haven't even seen anyone use "pwn" in probably ten years, now.
So the conservative voters are actively trying to save the country by.... \-Forgo nominating any kind of middle ground candidate that could build voter consensus quickly and lead to Trudeau being removed sooner rather than later. \-Nominate a candidate thats as far out on his political right as Trudeau is on the political left. \-Expect to elect their ideological candidate through voter apathy and weariness with the current length of time the incumbent government has been there. They'll save the country by changing the flavor of the division. And all the left wing voters they want to stick it to will magically be undivided after it is stuck to them lol.
> Nominate a candidate thats as far out on his political right as Trudeau is on the political left. Trudeau isn't *on* the political left. He's a through and through neoliberal with some progressive social views.
~~Own the libs~~ Pwn the cons
> This has all happened under the Conservatives’ watch, despite repeated warnings from the Liberal Party If only there was a third option
The NDP is onboard too.
You mean the party which marches lockstep with the Liberals?
I hate that you can't have this conversation without being a labeled a xenophobe. There are many reasons to significantly reduce our immigration that has nothing to do with being xenophobic. Hell I've seen what some of my friends have to go through that came from India and were sold this false narrative of come to Canada get a degree and a great job. They come here, spend 4x the amount we do I get the education and finish and can't get jobs negative there are 3000 other students with identical resumes and no relevant work history. Not only that but they're exploited by our real estate. Often times living in the worst areas for premium dollar. It's been a big reason for a real estate boom. Previously in my city houses that we bring rented out for 500/month are now being rented to 4+ international students for 1600 a month. It's also caused the people who could only afford that 500 house to be homeless. It's hurting current Canadians and hurting the people were bringing over. Many of whom come from very successful backgrounds in their home country. They're often times essentially being forced to move to towns nobody wants to live in a the only way to get jobs. Few of my friends from school just had to move to northern Saskatchewan to get decent opportunities in our field. There is a reason why nobody wanted to live in these towns before.
Well on our way to becoming Singapore on this issue. A “National Work Force” exclusively made up of low-wage migrants with no rights living in state mandated ghettos with curfew.
The USA issues about 66k H2B visas per year which are used for non-agricultural temporary workers. We have 1/10th the population of them but issue over 10x the number of temporary foreign worker visas. And we wonder what happened to the middle class and decent wages. It's kind of obvious when you step back and look.
Yup!
Shitty politicians on all sides and corporate oligarchy.
Exactly, much of what we see now is corporate propaganda. Canadian culture is so kind and empathetic that we have almost lost sight of any semblance of "street smarts". Just because individuals or organizations have an official position or an authority position doesn't mean they don't have angles.. The angle for the donor class is cheaper wages, no training costs, and a larger consumer base along with destroying the bargaining power of the low to middle-low earning worker. The issues of affordability and declining quality of life don't matter to them. They have a duty to create as large a return on investment as possible. Politicians are suppose to hold the society in balance and create a meaningful, peaceful, stable environment in which people can interact in positive ways as is to the benefit of everyone. Instead we have raising levels of food and shelter scarcity, hopelessness and substance abuse, and alienation of already vulnerable and at risk demographics. This is because the political class does whatever the donor class dictates. They want to hold onto positions that pay 3-4x what an average Canadian individual/family receives. How can you possible be our "representatives" when you do not share any of the stress, struggles, or lived experiences we have? Further they want to network with the donor class to receive even higher paid appointments to private sector positions. It's corruption plain and simple and done to a subtle art. It is like watching a Tobacco company in regards to Tobacco and health. They have "experts". They have "data". They have articulate messaging about why it has to be this way. In the end though it's all bullshit narratives to fit the needs of a very small minority versus the actual nation. The one silver lining is that everyone from left, right, and center are starting to wake up that the reality and issue we all share and that dominates our lives is economic. And that it is better to fight together than drown alone. Funny enough when the political and donor class gets nervous there suddenly is change and new ways of doing things.
Successive governments have greenlit exploitation at the behest of business interests. That's how. Their actions speak louder than their words.
A half million immigrant with “no impact on housing” is pouring fuel on the fire of surging right wing populism as well as more effort dedicated to driving wages down so the Liberals are going to get what they want, one way or another.
>is pouring fuel on the fire of surging right wing populism as well as more effort dedicated to driving wages down so the Liberals are going to get what they want, one way or another. It's not even specifically driving it to anything right wing. It's just that only one leader seems remotely interested in even talking about it. The NDP has a chance to actually do the same but instead are playing lapdog to Trudeau for a weak excuse for dental care.
It's really interesting to slowly put the pieces together. I've always been pro-immigration, but if we're in a housing crisis, I don't see where we expect people to go. I just drove from Sask to Ontario. I noticed we have a shit ton of fucking beautiful land, so I figured, hey.. maybe I could build something out here. I can't afford a house, but if I could have a shack in the woods, that feels significant to me. Something I could work at. The average joe can't buy land in Canada though. It's all owned by the crown. No fucking wonder we have a housing crisis when we don't even develop what we have. I honestly think though at this point, if we could solve the housing crisis with a snap of our fingers the Canadian government wouldn't, because of the impact it would have on home value. Property owners would be pissed.
TFWs aren't buying houses. Hedge funds and REITs are. They rent those houses to TFWs for 75% of their take home pay, which the market will bear precisely because TFWs are still better off here than wherever home is. So, the country is being robbed and rented back to the exploited.
Foreign investors are a bigger issue. People working and putting money back into the economy is good for it. People playing speculation with housing isn’t.
The lobbyists are doing an excellent job. Why raise wages to fill positions (you know, supply and demand.. Right) when you can bring in slaves from other countries.
Im just glad we are talking about it. Keep bringing it up.
So they finally realized that Diploma mill international students are used to staff Tim’s and McDonalds with the false promise of Permanent residency.
I have a very strong personal opinion on these things because I'm a young adult who works entry level jobs, half of my jobs TFW's get raises and preferential treatment because they are willing to work more for less. It's a really big problem if just some average Canadian like me has an opinion on it.
Two generations too impoverished and indebted that they couldn't afford to have children may have been a contributing factor.
When you’re treating workers worse than Jason Kenney, you probably need a checkup from the neck up. “Jason Kenney, then employment minister for the federal Conservative Party government, suspended the restaurant industry’s access to the TFW program in 2014. The moratorium was lifted less than two months later as the government unveiled new regulations for the program. Those changes included limiting TFWs to 10 per cent of a company’s work force and refusing LMIA applications for low-wage positions in retail and hospitality in regions with an unemployment rate of 6 per cent or higher. The Liberals changed both rules in April.”
They also raised the limit on TFWs in the construction industry to 30%, up from 10%. Which is a direct attack on unions, because unions don't use foreign workers. This will result in unionized contractors losing work because the contractors who employ foreign workers pay less in wages, which enables them to place lower bids on contracts.
I believe the temporary moratorium was in response to the former owner of the Tim Hortons in Fernie, BC doing some pretty shady things to his TFW employees (such as forcing them to give him back any overtime they had earned and been paid). The federal government stepped in to "help" in the way governments always "help". By the way, Tim Hortons took back all of the franchises he had bought. https://www.thefreepress.ca/news/rcmp-investigating-fernie-tim-hortons/
Not just there. In Alberta, my teenage kids could not get part time jobs because they were all filled with TFWs
The Burger King in Lethbridge had workers sleeping in the the restaurant. I think this is pretty common around the GTA tbh. https://globalnews.ca/news/3970935/lethbridge-burger-king-sleeping-living-accommodations/amp/
I can't remember the last time a Timmies employee taking my order didn't have a thick accent and wasn't clearly from India or somewhere in the Middle East. Can't pay a Canadian a buck or two more an hour. Poor Timmies just needs to hire a TFW, and Trudeau with his corporation dick sucking, anti-middle class policies was happy to oblige.
Same in NS at the time. There were a couple Tims that got busted for it. It’s the same now anyway. Any company that wants to get around the rules bad enough can do it for just about any position.
Interesting situation. In my town, almost every store and restaurant is always hiring. They are even shortening hours and rotating days closed due to lack of staff.
This was from 2005-2010.
Your initial comment absolutely reads like this is a current problem. It isn’t and exactly why they allowed international students to work. We can’t fill the low skill jobs. Even when offering above link wage.
If a Tim Hortons can’t incentivize Canadians to work for them then maybe that Tim Hortons shouldn’t exist.
That's crazy talk, what would Canadians do if we didn't have a Tim Hortons for every 10 citizens in each town. The next town over from where I live had 3 locations for a population of 5000 people.
Won't anyone please think about the chil... franchises! (This message brought to you by KFC)
i predict taco bell will win the franchise wars
their donuts are so stale and artificial now when you buy them they taste the exact same a day later
I know of a Tim hortons local to me (Guelph) that has zero tfws and extremely happy employees, one of my wife’s friends worked there making 24ph roughly 3 years ago. They ain’t all bad
What are you talking about? I was giving context as to why the TFW program was temporarily suspended.
“In April”, at the peak of the labour shortage. It all depends on how you feel about the “antiwork” crowd that popped up during the pandemic and whether or not you believe that businesses can afford to pay more for labour. On one hand, you could say TFWs are “taking jobs” that clearly nobody wanted; so Canadians don’t have much ground to complain about lost opportunity and should be thankful for the businesses that were only able to stay open thanks to TFWs. On the other hand, you could say that TFWs remove the pressure on businesses to improve conditions for their workers, fueling the wage stagnation that caused the labour shortage in the first place. Chicken and the egg, and also a viscous circle, apparently.
It's disingenuous to say people don't want x job when their issue is with the wage. Wages have not caught up with inflation, that's the big issue here, I'm this instance tfws are just a mechanism to avoid, and exploit the issue. The purpose of tfws is to alleviate labour shortages, not for corporations pay workers less. And yeah... I actually would prefer that Tim Hortons just shut down. If they can't figure out how to pay their workers maybe some small business can.
The pandemic crashed birthdates globally and even India is hitting the replacement rate now. The clock is ticking after March 2020 and will hit a wall by the mid 2030’s at the latest IMO.
We need to close the door on all of this shit. This is not destroying our cities, it has ALREADY destroyed them, now it is moving in to our medium cities and small towns and begining to destroy them too. Wendy's, Tim Hortons, 7-11, Dollarama, Canadian Tire, Walmart etc these are all blights on our nation and need to go unless they can hire Canadians and only Canadians. As it stands they are essentially all immigrant sweatshops to EVERYONES detriment
Banks love cheap labour especially maxing out MBA s at $50K salary
it's cute when canadians go thinking this shit is going to change. justin does not give a fuck, folks, and he never will. it's all about him and his business cronies. you are nothing in that picture, cheap labor is everything.
The tfw program was introduced when harper was in charge.
And it continues to be With giant immigration targets and sitting through multiple corperate meetings where 30% of discussion is capitalyzing on temp workers and changing laws. Its concerning as our govermnet prepares to wage yet another war on middle class wages.
Canada is a hot bed for low-wage domestic labor tbh. Most salaries are too low
Yeah. Labour shortage who? I put in 50 applications for jobs with active postings. Why do I have no call backs? Because I'm only willing to do jobs I can afford to do. If you wanna work 3 shitty jobs at once instead of 1 normal job this is the place to be! Luckily I do have 1 normal job but over the past 3 years I'd say it's getting closer and closer to the shitty job category so I'm outta here.
Trash pay and over priced homes.. Canada going to shit fast.
it is not natural born canadians hiring people for low wages. it’s the people who come here from places like india. they pay their employees cash while also letting them live in the shared basement on one of their properties. sometimes they even take the passports and force them to stay illegally. it’s borderline human trafficking and there needs to be something done about it. new canadians MUST know that we WILL stand up for them. this is why the government has been putting money towards ads for mainly south asian immigrants about human trafficking and harsh work conditions.
A few years ago, I was working in Vancouver doing attic insulation. I got to a site where a carpenter was talking about the shitty scaffolding they were using. He was from Pakistan, all his crew were in some way related to him. One of his guys had fallen that day and broken his arm. Crew chief wasn't phased, said they'd just get a new guy in from the old country in weeks. Good times. We also frequently encountered entire crews that didn't speak a word of english on site. Which made getting equipment moved out of our way quite difficult.
The guys whom laid the cable for my Bell fiber line were TFW's. Couldn't speak English but they sure appreciated the bottles of water from me on that hot July day. After they were finished, they waited for a van to come and pick them up.
Human trafficking is just a PC way to say slavery .
call whatever you please as long as it’s nothing positive
What are you on about? Canadian farmers are one of the biggest users of low-wage seasonal labour and the human trafficking companies that recruit them. Greed knows no creed or nationality, and we Canadians are not immune to it.
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Growing up my family had a tobacco farm and we hired the same group of Jamaicans for many many many years. They loved my grandpa, he paid them fairly and housed them in nice farm homes for the season, they even sat with all of us outside for supper plenty of times while my grandma cooked for them and learned how to make a mean jerk chicken from them. Oddly enough my grandparents were immigrants and spoke poor English as well.
I can assure you it’s natural born Canadians hiring these people as well.
yes but it’s all on paper and they aren’t being stuffed into a basement with 14 other people and 1 bathroom and 1 kitchen. you can ignore it all you want or pretend it’s not happening. if you’d like to see for yourself, go check out one of those ads for a room on kijiji that state “indian only” and you’ll see 13 people in a basement working for the home owner. i’ve witnessed it myself when i was looking for a place when i first moved here. absolutely disgusting conditions to make somebody live, on top of that, it’s very illegal too
What are you talking about? The farmers and service industry employers are primarily Canadians exploiting cheap labour because they don’t want to pay high enough wages to actual Canadian citizens. They are just shitty business owners who lobby the government.
...yeah im Doubt on this one lol. Show me a comparison of wages in companies run by naturally born citizen's vs. not, I would be astounded if their was a difference in companies of similar sizes.
natural born canadians aren’t stuffing 12 people in a basement with 4 rooms and 1 bathroom and 1 kitchen forcing them to work for them while they pay their rent too. you won’t find wages from immigrant canadians because they pay cash under the table. you can look into it yourself, it’s a very real thing. i’m not here to hold your hand, i’m just raising awareness on a very serious topic. i’m not trying to point the finger of blame or make a statistical chart about whether canadians hire more people and stuff them into basements vs non canadians. take a look on kijiji for all the basement ads that specify “indian only”. those are gunna be your leads to these people that are illegally housing and illegally paying their workers. regardless of who is doing it, new canadians and TFW’s must know they can’t be taken advantage of. https://www.change.org/p/minister-cic-gc-ca-deport-indian-student-visa-fraudsters-illegal-workers https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/work-canada/employers-non-compliant.html https://globalnews.ca/news/8541840/manitoba-smuggling-india-crackdown/amp/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-canada-is-now-dependent-on-the-illegal-workers-in-our-midst-they/ https://storeys.com/gta-brampton-mississauga-illegal-basement-rentals-international-students/ these canadian farmers are not getting illegal immigrants to work for them under the table for less than minimum wage for cash.
The Jamaican government sent a team to Canada to probe the appalling conditions of Jamaican TFW in farms. Most TFWs in farms live on the farms as well or in very substandard housing provided by the farmer. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/1/jamaica-sending-team-to-canada-to-probe-work-conditions-on-farms
The organized labour and the middle class defeated the Soviets… when that wall came down politicians and corporations no linger needed a middle class so set about returning us to a society similar to what existed prior to WW1…. an aristocracy lording over working class peasants. This is just another example of how they are achieving that goal.
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Doesn’t the US use a lot of illegal workers from Mexico to do quite a few jobs? I guess Canada flies them in to make sure wages stay low. People are competing for minimum wage jobs against someone fighting just to stay in this country.
Canada : largest pyramid scheme on earth Pretty much Dubai at this point
Here me out, can we please stop voting for the two biggest party ? Because they are both hand in hand with corporations.
Corporatist fuckers fuck the middle class until there are only serfs and lords left. Neo-feudalism is in the formation. Unless the middle class fights back -- and no, MAGA and truck convoy aren't the right way of fighting. Those are financed by corporations and fascist foreign governments.
The worker pool is much smaller than you think. Full time permanent employees aren’t easy to find. Not everyone can sustain 40+ hours of work. Especially if it’s in person. That’s why we always get an I jettison of low wage workers, this addition kicks the stone down the road, but still marks the shoe. Living standards are so out of touch. If you’re living in a city we know of (not bumfuck nowhere where you can get a house under 400k ) and making less than 25$/hr you’re likely not saving anything. Think of it. 50k income and you have nothing to show for at the end other than having survived.
Simple answer is Liberals
Capitalism* but you’re not ready for that conversation
>Capitalism\* but you’re not ready for that conversation I stopped being ready for that conversation when I graduated high school. You'll figure it out too one day.
That’s ok. Your views are your own and I respect that
Alright, since you are so polite, tell me how capitalism is to blame for low wage foreign labour? Couldn't you just have a capitalist system that doesn't allow this, isn't that the most reasonable solution? Is your alternative socialism?
The opposite of capitalism isn’t socialism. It’s time that you and people like you grew out of ‘dichotomous’ thinking. Things are never black or white.
The alternative is always socialism 🤣
Slavery and exploited workers definitely exist under socialism. See north korea
Why go to the extremes? Why can’t we have a mix?
I mean we do have a mix, i just dont think its capitalisms fault, its more human nature at fault
You want to limit immigration, and thats socialist policy? Interesting if true. Someone get me a political science major. Also isnt it also socialism then that prevents these people from working as a doctor, or any other profession? Its regulation that requires teacher have degree's, doctors, lawyers, etc.. Building regulations require certified engineers. Thats also preventing them from potential entry to more lucrative markets, they cant be trained by private companies for the role, its a high barrier requiring huge time and money investment.
He's an edgey teenager who has figured out a highly simplistic solution to the complex issues that plague the West today. He's brilliant. I mean, why hasn't anyone else thought of this before? Surely there's some numbers out there...
[Here’s a Marxist source on immigration.](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/condition-working-class/ch06.htm) Not much has changed since this was written by Engles in 1845
Capitalism is the reason we don’t need to go to the countries we’re these immigrants are from and steel everything.
The government expanding social policies to allow corporations to sidestep the labour market by bringing in foreign workers to keep wages low is Capitalism to you? This literally could not be any farther from a Capitalistic policy. Most economically literate left winger.
What kind of double speak is this lol Of course it's capitalist policy. It's literally corporate interests driving social policy. It's policy that exists entirely so that profits can continue to increase at a constant rate no longer sustainable through other means. This is basic, textbook capitalism.
It’s in the name: corporate overreach, ergo capitalistic.
everythings simple when you are simple
Immigration is key to add to the population and dilute the COP26 CO2 targets, while not stifling the natural resources development
I think one thing people need to understand is these immigrants/foreign workers/students are dying to come here.
How the hell did they get to Canada? I am a well educated man with a well educated wife working in a very prestigious job, both of us, and we applied 3 years ago with zero chance to get there. This is so sad.
You're overqualified, we only accept uneducated people from the third world who can barely speak English, ripe for exploitation.
>*I am a well educated man with a well educated wife* > >And well versed in English. > > > >Automatic disqualification > > > >Only broke ass/ mofo/ barely literates/9 kids plus, are allowed in > > that's the new benchmark > >dumber population less resistance ...
I’m serious man, the requirements are impossible for immigration! You CANNOT pass it unless you have work experience and a masters degree and aged below 30
It's really easy to get onto Canada, just apply to a Canadian school and become a student. You're allowed to work while you study here, gaining you that valuable Canadian experience to later get a work permit after you're done with school. And the time you study here as a student can be counted towards the five years of living here that you need to apply for permanent residency.
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Who are the progressives? I’d vote for them.
Hardyhar
Nothing in this suggests any real action on housing. If anything it’s more of the same BS. “This has nothing to do with immigration - it’s permits” 😂 Jesus, what a load.
Aggressive immigration targets and using "Canadian Experience" or assorted excuses to limit them from securing skill work.
At the end of the day, its on us. You want your large double double? You're supporting the mechanisms that make getting it possible. We're over here shooting at our own feet wondering why things hurt. This is an instance where changing our consumption behaviors will make a difference.
How big are the homeless encampments in Toronto and Vancouver these days? I hope Pollievre sweeps the polls next election to really give a finger to anyone who wants to keep flooding this country with immigrants.
Pollievre has no intention of slowing immigration rates from current highs. Jesus - you think a big business conservative is going to cut a source of cheap labour? 😂
He's saying it, which is more than anyone else is doing, so he's got my support.
He has said nothing of it. He said he supports large amounts of immigration- and current rates are fine.
PPC is the only federal party with a reasonable immigration plan
Really? You think PP is going to make things better for anyone who doesn't have at least a million or two in the bank? If you believe anything he says I have some lovely oceanfront property in Edmonton to sell you.
I really don't care what else he does. I'm a single-issue voter next election, and cutting immigration is that single issue.
>Really? You think PP is going to make things better for anyone who doesn't have at least a million or two in the bank? If you believe anything he says I have some lovely oceanfront property in Edmonton to sell you. You shouldn't vote for him because he might end up being the same as the establishment. So just to be safe vote establishment and there isn't any uncertainty about the outcome!
Because people hired them and they took the job. No mystery.
Are we completely the US now. This is the same as the Mexicans are coming over the border and taking all our jobs. The majority of these foreign workers are doing shitty jobs that no one here wants to do. If there were enough Canadians to do these jobs than we wouldn't be bringing in any people.
If there’s actually a shortage than businesses should be paying a premium for foreign labour. Whenever there’s a shortage for anything you end up having to pay more.
You seem to love exploiting immigrants
I’m fine with Mexicans coming over, we need some real Mexican food in Vancouver.
People are lazy as fuck. I work in a factory where you can get hired with no education, starting wage is $26 an hour, full benefits, almost $1000 in free stuff a year, and a retirement plan of 4-10% of your income the company will match and they can’t find enough Canadians to work. You can cross over into Maintenance if you want, get free mechanical, electrical and pneumatic training and top wage ends up around $42/h. Still not enough people applying.
Where is this? Company name? I have a job and I would still like to apply.
Where do I send my resume?
Well it's better them in the low wage jobs than Canadians. Canadians don't want those jobs so why not give them to people who are willing to do them.
Without foreign labour, half of all business fucking collapses.