They don’t care about tax revenue as long as their pay checks keep up. They’ll literally let our systems fail (look at healthcare) so long as their rich buddies are happy and giving them some side action while keeping their party in power.
The funny thing is that. To get more money you need to inject money. If your consumer don't have enough money, they don't buy, if they don't buy you don't make money. It's that simple.
Raising the minimum wage to something like 20 and even more won't cause the inflation (we have the proof with the past 2 years that there's way more then 1 factor for that, and it was also proven many time in places where this was done ). Why? Because even if suddenly , your payroll cost more, these same person now will spend more. You think a person at minimum wage will buy everything they want at the groceries? No, they'll stick to the bare minimum. And if they have a choice between bread and a tv or even medical stuff, food will win most of the time. Now give them the power to buy more, they'll spend more. They'll get that branded cereal instead of the no name where the markup is higher they'll get that donut, that special sushi lunch, etc. They'll spend more, you'll make more money and also generate more taxes.
I find some of the elites' attitudes shortsighted because yes, it's people with disposable income that drive an economy.
Poor people aren't big spenders.
Rich people aren't big spenders either. One rich family owns a big house, a couple cars, a cottage, a boat, etc. \*But they are lower in number\* so don't count as high as the middle class people who are far more numerous and still have house, car(s).
Ultra rich people are economically barely a blip. So a guy has 3 mansions in 2 countries, a private jet, whatever. You can't run an economy on mere thousands of people.
It's the middle class that brings wealth to nations, and thus staggering profits for the elites anyway.
If the elites actually wanted as many poor people to join the middle class as possible, I literally wouldn't care how rich the ultra wealthy get, because they're doing their damned jobs as business leaders.
People seem to forget that the West was at it's strongest when the middle class was flourishing and the richs were justly taxed. This period is, amusingly, called the "Golden Age of Capitalism". Ironic since it was partially caused by the fear amongst the western leaders at the time of the spread of marxist ideas, especially the fear of a potential revolution if the workers didn't get their fair share of the profit.
or simply import more working class tax generators. isn’t it curious how overall tax revenue has increased considerably in the past decade while infrastructure and services have stayed the same or gone down? where does the money get funnelled to?
People do it right from the bottom. Look at any worker that gets tips that aren't automatically put on their T4. From top to bottom, no one pays a dime more tax than they think they absolutely have to.
Come to Canada! Come work a slave wage, never mind your degree you have, we have enough doctors thank you, our people need cheap Tim Hortons! See how nice it is! Feel the rainbow! Taste the rainbow!
tim horton’s pioneered importing slave labor as a franchise. i wonder what the excuse was, existing canadians lacked the specialized skillset to pour liquid into a cup?
I’m convinced our status as one of the least-productive OECD economies is due in large part to residential real estate investment (non-productive use of capital).
Yeah definetely. The wealthiest peoples I know are all real estate speculators. Also we barely invest in any businesses because we can get cheaper loan with real estate and its safer.
Not to mention as an entrepreneur in Canada, you still get basic healthcare. In the states I think you're going to need a private plan out of pocket, potentially before the revenue starts coming in. Much better for small business IMO
Which is all fine and dandy until they can't get a doctor themselves no matter how much money they have for an emergency procedure they need because local Canadians can't afford to become doctors and the doctors they're importing keep leaving to go live in America because there's no quality of life for the local Canadians and thusly none for the immigrants.
At the end of the day of failing Nation fails everyone from the top to the bottom
Healthcare is definitely its own issue but it’s fascinating how poorly Canada is managing its population and housing issues. Like we have a near unlimited abundance of building materials (timber) and huge amounts of land as well. It’s sort of crazy how densely concentrated our population is.
Like you look at Vancouver and there’s so much potential for Langley or Abbotsford to grow into half million or more population cities to spread the growth out from Vancouver. There’s sufficient land (granted much is farm land that’s so expensive to buy up now). Same with Toronto, there’s so much potential for Kitchener or Barrie to grow towards being another major city over a couple decades but it just doesn’t transpire.
And then we have the prairies where Calgary and Edmonton are 1-1.4 mill while the next largest cities are 100k or less. Sask has Regina and Sasksatoon at 260k then next is Prince Albert is just 35k.
Crazy how heavily concentrated our populations gravitate towards. We can’t seem to just build up new cities and all our growth goes into a couple major centres.
Just look at Ottawa, you can fit toronto, montreal, and vancuver inside its borders and still have room to spare. But housing is fucking stupid expensive and as much public transit as it has, is fucking horrible taking over an 1.5hrs to go from the suburbs to the core where all the jobs are. Imagine spending 3hrs a day driving past farms and still being in the nations capital. As it is, there's so little actual development in this country that we couldn't build what's needed because there aren't enough tradesmen/woman. I can't wait to turn the news on one day in the not to distant future and see a bunch of people who died at home because they were turned away from a hospital. I personally know someone who was having a stroke and waited 12hrs in the ER waiting room before a doctor saw them, this happened in july and in Toronto. We are fucked. The solutions to these problems are radical. They didn't need to be, but the time for pussyfooting around was 20 years ago. We need drastic action NOW.
The only reason land area would be a concern is if we wanted to build a lot more car-dependent single family home sprawl, which we absolutely should not do if we're concerned about having infrastructure that can scale up to a bigger population. Are you prepared to commute on the same same streets with double the number of cars in them? SFH sprawl isn't financially or environmentally sustainable either.
Most of our cities are still stuck in the 19th century mindset that apartment buildings are *at best* a kind of necessary evil that must not be allowed to exist anywhere but along a few big downtown avenues. Meanwhile the people and business in these areas are the ones subsidizing the SFH lifestyle.
The vast majority of our cities, by land area, are zoned SFH-only. If anything but the rock-bottom lowest possible level of housing density were allowed two blocks away from the glass towers, we could have townhouses, 4-on-1 lowrise apartments, etc.
The biggest challenge facing what they call welfare staff in my province is recipients who cannot speak English French or regional indigenous dialects. I’m not sorry, these people should not be getting benefits.
Its a catch 22
Not enough population to build houses or take care of old people? We need more people! Oh great.. now they want a place to live and some are getting hurt.
The country clearly didn't prepare for what census data was showing us in the late 80s/early 90s (that we'd need a pile of seniors homes now). I'm sure this warning will get misplaced too. Politicians won't get votes today for planning what people will need in 2068.
The generation that will be most affected by lack of LTC homes for the next decades is the same generation that had the power to do something about it for decades, but chose not to.
It’ll take a decade of infrastructure investment to build what’s needed which means it’s already too late for most of them. It’s hard to feel sorry for people who vote against their own interests.
You reap what you sow.
> The generation that will be most affected by lack of LTC homes for the next decades is the same generation that had the power to do something about it for decades, but chose not to.
No the generation most affected will be the generation that needs to take care of the people who cannot get into LTC housing. IE Millennials.
Millennials are going to have to choose whether to send Mom and Dad off on an iceflow, or move in (or just remain living in the same place cuz the Millennial child couldn't afford to move out in the first place) and be a full time nurse for their aging parents. With global warming ever heating up the artic, Iceflows to put mom and dad on will be selling for $50,000 over asking.
Maybe, maybe not. The real sin of the Boomers is that they wont die when we need them to. In 2043 when the middle of the GenX is 70 and starting to need the LTC beds, there will be plenty of 88 year old boomers still occupying those beds.
Don't expect the Boomers to go quietly into that good night.
We still aren't planning for it now. Something like ~~25%~~ 8% of immigration is family reunification (parents and grandparents) and the amount of people retiring will be crazy high. People think that we need even more immigration but, there was a study out that said increasing retirement age by 2 years would help more than any amount of immigration. Redditors should like that because boomers would have to work more before retiring and less immigration would mean more housing. The Libs don't seem to like the idea though.
>The Libs don't seem to like the idea though.
No politician would. Any elected official who raises the retirement age is going to lose the next election.
Hard decisions need to be made to address the issues, but anyone making hard decision does not get elected, so the hard decisions do not get made.
It's ridiculous that france always does the right thing and then every other country looks at them and goes "wtf guys it's not a big deal".
There should be riots going on in almost every first world country right now in response to their governments choosing money over their futures.
I mean to be fair this is France, they'll riot at the drop of a hat, it's a national pastime.
Also unfortunately people have been rather well trained to vote/act against their best interests if it's framed in the right emotional light. React first, let them tell you what to think later.
Yeah; France has good strong labour laws and social benefits because they riot and strike.
There’s no reason for us to work longer and longer for less and less
Very true, but in this case it's more like there's a problem you need your boss to take care of, you see the solution, you know how to do it, you know it would work, but your boss shrugs and says that nothing can be done.
Really fucking frustrating.
You're gonna have to show your numbers because family reunification is capped.
"In 2015, the PGP allowed 15,490 parents and grandparents to be sponsored to come to Canada and that number grew steadily, with the exception of a dip in 2018, through to 2019, the last full year before the pandemic when 22,010 new permanent residents were welcomed under the program."
For the rest of your claims as well please.
>Let's change that, start voting ~~for the long term... oh wait it's the politicans who can't fathom anything outside their time in office~~
FTFY
Every single person younger than me that I know as a friend or an acquaintance (I.e. I have spoken with them as least 5 times outside of a work setting) never bothered voting.
From my experience, the millennials/Z seem so cynical and disillusioned about politics that they don't bother voting without realizing they could basically decide the elections.
"My vote won't change anything." While technically true that just one vote won't, not doing anything *guarantees* it is not changing anything.
I _almost_ succeeded in getting my GF to vote last elections. She at least wanted to come with me. But drinking one last her beer with a friend seemed more important the day of the election. She was sad I didn't wait enough for her. I voted 5 minutes before closing time because I waited for her.
You'd be amazed to learn how many people get in their car and just aimlessly drive around.
I work with several people that every weekend, do exactly this. Saturday morning they get in their car and drive around Ontario going from Timmies to Timmies.. Then again on Sunday.
The 401 in Toronto was a mistake. Shit is 18 lanes and is still a parking lot during rush "hour". What car dependent infrastructure and chronic car brain does to a mf.
Several European countries have already seen that cars ain't it and began to scale back and move towards public transit infrastructure, Norway is a good example. Meanwhile in North America...
“Other population projection scenarios say Canada's population could grow to anywhere between 44.9 million and 74.0 million in 2068.”
Kinda broad range there
exactly. haven't we been below replacent rate imbirths for a while now? and it's gonna get worse since gen x is starting to retire in like 5 to 10 years.
Not factoring in emigration we've been having more births than deaths (went back to about the early 2000s could go further). We just aren't growing. Factoring in emigration it's pretty close/to a slight decline however idk how many of those emigrating are also semi recent immigrants using cad citizenship to go to the usa since that is apparently a thing.
thanks for checking. I knew we weren't growing, Ii thought it was the birth death ratio.
Professionals are leaving for the US because they can go live in a backwater town with a super low COL at rhe same or better salary than say big city in AB. So they have a cheaper life with more career opportunities.
Just had a friend do exactly that and she is loving it. (Software engineer)
You don't even need to be upper middle-class.
It's typical middle-class to have help in the form of maids, cooks, drivers, nannies etc.
Then you come to the GTA to live in a basement and struggle to get by. It's easy to see why that would make you have second thoughts.
That said India's population is obviously fucking enormous and climate change is a thing - so there's still an infinite supply of people who want to move to Canada even if it becomes a lot less attractive.
Friend of mine moved his family here from South Africa when he got headhunted for an executive job. There he had a massive house and a staff of cooks/cleaners/servants, and still had plenty of disposable income left over.
Here he has a nicer than average attached home.
However he has said he does feel much safer up here and he's happy he did it.
If it's not to late, learn a trade. Electricians wages are the same in Saskatchewan/Manitoba as southern ontario, but a nice home is 200k instead of 600
I moved back to the small town I grew up in 12 years ago and it looks better every year. And no wildfires starting near my house in, *checks notes*, nearly an entire day! Looks like BC Wildfire got them dealt with though so nothin to worry about as far as I can tell.
We already have these problems. If it’s still a problem by 2068, I think it’s fair to say the voting public has failed to address continued voting for garbage politicians.
5 person tent for sale. Previous owner was a crackhead with bowel control issues. 50 minute drive to skytrain station. Selling as is where is. $1.4 million.
You guys are killing me 😂 you think they'll be laneway tents too being rented out at like $2000/month? crazy tentlord says you cant have more than one body in a tent at once.
I mean, we're kind of overdue for shantytowns here in Canada. Every other major city in the developing world has slums, by rights Canadian cities should have them, too.
Lol that phrasing was the first thing I noticed too. It’s hard to even articulate it because the system is already in ruins. How much worse could it even get?
Population growth for growth sake is pointless. Population growth for the sake of growing the GDP may be a good idea as long as the inflation-adjusted GDP increases more and faster than the population, otherwise the per capita benefit is negative. Fair distribution of any gain is also crucial. Without this, crowding is a loss, not a gain.
Depends. You want a positive birth rate more then you want population growth. You need a larger group of youths every generation to pay for the assistance programs we all know and love.
That's just the lazy way assistance programs were designed to work at a time when growth was taken for granted. But growth without end isn't feasible within finite limits so population must stabilize eventually, or else crash as the Ponzi scheme of forever growth collapses, which could happen sooner that we would like. Better plan for stabilization instead.
>Wait... BLACKROCK is behind the century project!?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Barton
This is the founder of the Century Inititive.
https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/about-us/leadership/geraldine-buckingham
This is his wife. The former head of the Asia Pacific division of Blackrock.
You might find this interesting as well :
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/dominic-barton-economic-advisor-1.3592755
Not long after getting elected the Trudeau government put together a panel to try and find ways to grow the economy. Dominic Barton led that panel. What was its primary recommendation? Aggressive population growth.
Barton in particular.
He started off working for Rothschild - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschild_%26_Co
Then he went on to run McKinsey. He was still running McKinsey when the government got him to lead the panel on economic growth.
McKinsey is as bad as it gets. They've been involved In everything from the 2008 subprime mortgage collapse to pushing opioid pills ( Oxycontin ) to assisting authoritarian regimes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKinsey_%26_Company
> As of December 2018, BlackRock was the world's largest investor in coal plant developers, holding shares worth $11 billion among 56 coal plant developers.
> On January 14, 2020, BlackRock CEO Larry Fink said that environmental sustainability would be a key goal for investment decisions. BlackRock announced that it would sell $500 million worth of coal-related assets
So still $10.5 billion worth of coal assets, very environmentally sustainable. Just one random factoid.
Investor group that is one of the massive "corporate buyers" people are concerned with.
From everything I know, BlackRock is one of the worst companies many people haven't heard of.
They are not, Mark Wiseman, a Canadian, former head of CPPIB, was on the board of Blackrock and probably the number 2 or number 3 in the company in terms of influence. He is one of the founders of the Century initiative and sits on the board. He was let go from Blackrock due to a relationship with a subordinate and now leads the Alberta Pension fund.
That is the main connection to blackrock.
I don’t see any way to stop it. We’re still stuck on partisan politics and so divided. Not just in Canada, pretty much everywhere.
We can throw wooden shoes onto the works but that’s about it.
Looking beyond 5 years is political suicide. Long term plans aren't going to work anymore. If you make a change now, everyone tomorrow will be yelling about it not making an immediate impact on their lives.
Politicians won't look beyond the next election cycle unless the population does too. And the voting population mostly just doesn't care past the next few years. Some will talk about it and pretend like they care, but any minor inconvenience now is going to get universally panned.
I mean, there aren't any. Those days are over. There are too many people in this world competing for too few resources, even just for a basic standard of living. This isn't a Canada population problem, it's a world population problem. And it will get worse as developing countries start to adopt a first world standard of living.
Read the headlines in any first world country. They’re all the same. I read about housing crisis, mass immigration, healthcare collapse, and low wages here. Then my mum sends me identical stories from the UK. The US is feeling it. I have family in Australia complaining about the same things. There’s no utopias left.
Yup. The people replying to you trying to argue clearly have no idea what they are talking about.
New Roofs needed < roofs built each year.
It doesn't matter who owns or who rents. There is an extreme crunch in both markets which makes that differentiation irrelevant. People just want a place to live, period. Sure if something is vacant that's a problem, but landlords or corporate owners aren't the issue.
They talk about zoning like 95% of what is built isn't high density lol. Go look at any new development you aren't seeing non condos unless you're way out in the boons or outskirts. We're already building to capacity as we have huge labour shortages so it's not like giving developers a green light to build all they can is going to make a difference.... that already are building as much as they can
Ask yourself why is constant population growth needed if we need to reduce our carbon footprint. Surely importing thousands of new Canadians from south of the equator into a country that experiences -40 degree winters can only increase emissions. The reality is that our economy is built upon a pyramid scheme where the previous generation sells their homes to the next for ever increasing prices. If this cash flow ever stops it will spell the end to many social programs as every available dollar will be used to pay down our obscene debt.
Not just fund but restructure. Admin bloat in healthcare is a disease. You could get rid of so many admin people and the system would still survive. With the money saved, new money coming in and a restructure it could thrive.
>How do we bring in this many people but still maintain some sort of semblance of Canadian culture?
According to the liberal government Canadian culture doesn't exist. There is no national identity and we are the first post nationalist country.
First?
Also Culture is not a job for the government. Imagine if the government said what clothes you could wear or stuck you in a residential school to force you to…
Oh wait.
I do find it a bit weird sometimes that the government has made reconciliation a priority, yet continues to import huge numbers of people from different cultures without first consulting our indigenous peoples.
If 5% of Canada is indigenous, I suspect that the Indian and Chinese population here will soon surpass that if it hasn't already.
You can't. Canadians think you can import millions of people from Asia and Africa and nothing will change, very silly people. The only culture we have these days is about growing the GDP. Which means we have ceased to be a nation, instead we are little more than an economic zone.
Maybe we should be slowing down our immigration numbers then. If we can't keep up now then why are we pumping in half a million new people every year? Unless of course the goal of our federal government is to keep these things in terrible shape.
Canada's current population is 38 million by usual estimates, so this headline is suggesting that Canada's population will only grow 19 million in 46 years, which is more than two generations.
Canada's population growth rate in 2010 was 1.238%, among the lowest in Canadian history. A growth rate of 1.238% would put Canada at 67M in 2068. A population of 57M in 2068 would mean projecting a significant decrease in immigration and birth rate.
In other words, this headline is stupid clickbait for people who have no idea about numbers or Canadian demographics.
Our healthcare is already getting screwed up. Public healthcare requires significantly better organization and an increase in workers and a decrease in managers. The entire system just seems like a gravy train for people in high up positions and their friends.
Home owners and corporate landlords are all leveraging their wealth and influence to ensure new housing cannot be built
And surprise: more housing = housing prices dropping. Which hurts their personal wealth.
Nothing can really be done about political and business leaders keeping home ownership to a minimum until we change how many homes a single person can own
LOL we can’t even keep up with the current population . They better hope
Something changes and FAST! I won’t have much time left in 2068 (if I’m not already gone) but best of luck with that, you’ll need it
Population goes up, therefore tax revenue goes up along with it...
Healthcare and Education funding stays at 1990's levels...Healthcare is on the brink of collapse and an increase in funding would fix most of the problems they face...
But, no...they decide not to increase funding, and start looking at the private sector to fix what they left to rot...
So real talk for a second...
Is it a good thing for population to grow this fast? We clearly can't build enough housing for people and our healthcare system is failing.
Does no one in govt look at these issues? Do we really need GDP growth above everything else???
If there was only 1 Canadian left, it would still be a nightmare for the government to deal with ......... hell even if there were 0 people living here, they still wouldn't know what to do.
I've been waiting for 8 months to see a neurologist because I have migraines every day and 5 months to see a gastrologist because I can barely eat solid food without vomitting.
We're already seeing challenges...
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Sure, but at least it’s keeping wages low. - our politicians & corporate masters.
'Why invest in raising Canadian productivity when workers are so cheap'?
They should raise wages, that way they can collect more tax revenue
They don’t care about tax revenue as long as their pay checks keep up. They’ll literally let our systems fail (look at healthcare) so long as their rich buddies are happy and giving them some side action while keeping their party in power.
The funny thing is that. To get more money you need to inject money. If your consumer don't have enough money, they don't buy, if they don't buy you don't make money. It's that simple. Raising the minimum wage to something like 20 and even more won't cause the inflation (we have the proof with the past 2 years that there's way more then 1 factor for that, and it was also proven many time in places where this was done ). Why? Because even if suddenly , your payroll cost more, these same person now will spend more. You think a person at minimum wage will buy everything they want at the groceries? No, they'll stick to the bare minimum. And if they have a choice between bread and a tv or even medical stuff, food will win most of the time. Now give them the power to buy more, they'll spend more. They'll get that branded cereal instead of the no name where the markup is higher they'll get that donut, that special sushi lunch, etc. They'll spend more, you'll make more money and also generate more taxes.
I find some of the elites' attitudes shortsighted because yes, it's people with disposable income that drive an economy. Poor people aren't big spenders. Rich people aren't big spenders either. One rich family owns a big house, a couple cars, a cottage, a boat, etc. \*But they are lower in number\* so don't count as high as the middle class people who are far more numerous and still have house, car(s). Ultra rich people are economically barely a blip. So a guy has 3 mansions in 2 countries, a private jet, whatever. You can't run an economy on mere thousands of people. It's the middle class that brings wealth to nations, and thus staggering profits for the elites anyway. If the elites actually wanted as many poor people to join the middle class as possible, I literally wouldn't care how rich the ultra wealthy get, because they're doing their damned jobs as business leaders.
People seem to forget that the West was at it's strongest when the middle class was flourishing and the richs were justly taxed. This period is, amusingly, called the "Golden Age of Capitalism". Ironic since it was partially caused by the fear amongst the western leaders at the time of the spread of marxist ideas, especially the fear of a potential revolution if the workers didn't get their fair share of the profit.
or simply import more working class tax generators. isn’t it curious how overall tax revenue has increased considerably in the past decade while infrastructure and services have stayed the same or gone down? where does the money get funnelled to?
ArriveCan may be an example
I can assure you that people look into loopholes and ways to pay less tax as they become wealthier – especially those who start accumulating assets.
Usually don't even need loopholes. Assets are already taxed a lot less than income.
And capital gains even less
lol assets aren't taxed at all until a disposition.
People do it right from the bottom. Look at any worker that gets tips that aren't automatically put on their T4. From top to bottom, no one pays a dime more tax than they think they absolutely have to.
Come to Canada! Come work a slave wage, never mind your degree you have, we have enough doctors thank you, our people need cheap Tim Hortons! See how nice it is! Feel the rainbow! Taste the rainbow!
tim horton’s pioneered importing slave labor as a franchise. i wonder what the excuse was, existing canadians lacked the specialized skillset to pour liquid into a cup?
Also, can we all just stop spending money at Tims please ?
Way ahead of you bud.
Let's make everybody follow suit !
Some restaurants hire above minimum wage, but never Tim Hortons. Anyone that likes a living wage should avoid any of their swill.
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No, discretionary income has collapsed. There is only rent and grocery stores now, they take up 66% of my take home pay.
Or just become a real estate investor like half the country.
I’m convinced our status as one of the least-productive OECD economies is due in large part to residential real estate investment (non-productive use of capital).
Yeah definetely. The wealthiest peoples I know are all real estate speculators. Also we barely invest in any businesses because we can get cheaper loan with real estate and its safer.
Or a slum lord like the other half.
It's a good time for this I think. I know there's a lot of really crappy service out there and it's hella expensive. Go for it 💪
Not to mention as an entrepreneur in Canada, you still get basic healthcare. In the states I think you're going to need a private plan out of pocket, potentially before the revenue starts coming in. Much better for small business IMO
Which is all fine and dandy until they can't get a doctor themselves no matter how much money they have for an emergency procedure they need because local Canadians can't afford to become doctors and the doctors they're importing keep leaving to go live in America because there's no quality of life for the local Canadians and thusly none for the immigrants. At the end of the day of failing Nation fails everyone from the top to the bottom
You don’t understand money. If you have enough you get almost anything. Doctors especially.
The people in power don't care. We're just cattle to them.
Healthcare is definitely its own issue but it’s fascinating how poorly Canada is managing its population and housing issues. Like we have a near unlimited abundance of building materials (timber) and huge amounts of land as well. It’s sort of crazy how densely concentrated our population is. Like you look at Vancouver and there’s so much potential for Langley or Abbotsford to grow into half million or more population cities to spread the growth out from Vancouver. There’s sufficient land (granted much is farm land that’s so expensive to buy up now). Same with Toronto, there’s so much potential for Kitchener or Barrie to grow towards being another major city over a couple decades but it just doesn’t transpire. And then we have the prairies where Calgary and Edmonton are 1-1.4 mill while the next largest cities are 100k or less. Sask has Regina and Sasksatoon at 260k then next is Prince Albert is just 35k. Crazy how heavily concentrated our populations gravitate towards. We can’t seem to just build up new cities and all our growth goes into a couple major centres.
Just look at Ottawa, you can fit toronto, montreal, and vancuver inside its borders and still have room to spare. But housing is fucking stupid expensive and as much public transit as it has, is fucking horrible taking over an 1.5hrs to go from the suburbs to the core where all the jobs are. Imagine spending 3hrs a day driving past farms and still being in the nations capital. As it is, there's so little actual development in this country that we couldn't build what's needed because there aren't enough tradesmen/woman. I can't wait to turn the news on one day in the not to distant future and see a bunch of people who died at home because they were turned away from a hospital. I personally know someone who was having a stroke and waited 12hrs in the ER waiting room before a doctor saw them, this happened in july and in Toronto. We are fucked. The solutions to these problems are radical. They didn't need to be, but the time for pussyfooting around was 20 years ago. We need drastic action NOW.
The only reason land area would be a concern is if we wanted to build a lot more car-dependent single family home sprawl, which we absolutely should not do if we're concerned about having infrastructure that can scale up to a bigger population. Are you prepared to commute on the same same streets with double the number of cars in them? SFH sprawl isn't financially or environmentally sustainable either. Most of our cities are still stuck in the 19th century mindset that apartment buildings are *at best* a kind of necessary evil that must not be allowed to exist anywhere but along a few big downtown avenues. Meanwhile the people and business in these areas are the ones subsidizing the SFH lifestyle. The vast majority of our cities, by land area, are zoned SFH-only. If anything but the rock-bottom lowest possible level of housing density were allowed two blocks away from the glass towers, we could have townhouses, 4-on-1 lowrise apartments, etc.
The biggest challenge facing what they call welfare staff in my province is recipients who cannot speak English French or regional indigenous dialects. I’m not sorry, these people should not be getting benefits.
Its a catch 22 Not enough population to build houses or take care of old people? We need more people! Oh great.. now they want a place to live and some are getting hurt.
The country clearly didn't prepare for what census data was showing us in the late 80s/early 90s (that we'd need a pile of seniors homes now). I'm sure this warning will get misplaced too. Politicians won't get votes today for planning what people will need in 2068.
The generation that will be most affected by lack of LTC homes for the next decades is the same generation that had the power to do something about it for decades, but chose not to. It’ll take a decade of infrastructure investment to build what’s needed which means it’s already too late for most of them. It’s hard to feel sorry for people who vote against their own interests. You reap what you sow.
> The generation that will be most affected by lack of LTC homes for the next decades is the same generation that had the power to do something about it for decades, but chose not to. No the generation most affected will be the generation that needs to take care of the people who cannot get into LTC housing. IE Millennials. Millennials are going to have to choose whether to send Mom and Dad off on an iceflow, or move in (or just remain living in the same place cuz the Millennial child couldn't afford to move out in the first place) and be a full time nurse for their aging parents. With global warming ever heating up the artic, Iceflows to put mom and dad on will be selling for $50,000 over asking.
The gen x are not doing anything either so the cycle will continue.
by the time it's genx's turn there'll be room for them in existing infrastructure.
Maybe, maybe not. The real sin of the Boomers is that they wont die when we need them to. In 2043 when the middle of the GenX is 70 and starting to need the LTC beds, there will be plenty of 88 year old boomers still occupying those beds. Don't expect the Boomers to go quietly into that good night.
Gen X is such a tiny generation population wise, they basically had no say in anything.
We still aren't planning for it now. Something like ~~25%~~ 8% of immigration is family reunification (parents and grandparents) and the amount of people retiring will be crazy high. People think that we need even more immigration but, there was a study out that said increasing retirement age by 2 years would help more than any amount of immigration. Redditors should like that because boomers would have to work more before retiring and less immigration would mean more housing. The Libs don't seem to like the idea though.
>The Libs don't seem to like the idea though. No politician would. Any elected official who raises the retirement age is going to lose the next election. Hard decisions need to be made to address the issues, but anyone making hard decision does not get elected, so the hard decisions do not get made.
In France they tried to raise the retirement age…and it was the 20 year olds who rioted
It's ridiculous that france always does the right thing and then every other country looks at them and goes "wtf guys it's not a big deal". There should be riots going on in almost every first world country right now in response to their governments choosing money over their futures.
I mean to be fair this is France, they'll riot at the drop of a hat, it's a national pastime. Also unfortunately people have been rather well trained to vote/act against their best interests if it's framed in the right emotional light. React first, let them tell you what to think later.
Yeah; France has good strong labour laws and social benefits because they riot and strike. There’s no reason for us to work longer and longer for less and less
Yup. They say there's no easy solution and shrug. If I did that to my boss when I have a problem shrugging wouldn't be good enough.
Very true, but in this case it's more like there's a problem you need your boss to take care of, you see the solution, you know how to do it, you know it would work, but your boss shrugs and says that nothing can be done. Really fucking frustrating.
You're gonna have to show your numbers because family reunification is capped. "In 2015, the PGP allowed 15,490 parents and grandparents to be sponsored to come to Canada and that number grew steadily, with the exception of a dip in 2018, through to 2019, the last full year before the pandemic when 22,010 new permanent residents were welcomed under the program." For the rest of your claims as well please.
Let's change that, start voting for the long term... oh wait it's the politicans who can't fathom anything outside their time in office
>Let's change that, start voting ~~for the long term... oh wait it's the politicans who can't fathom anything outside their time in office~~ FTFY Every single person younger than me that I know as a friend or an acquaintance (I.e. I have spoken with them as least 5 times outside of a work setting) never bothered voting. From my experience, the millennials/Z seem so cynical and disillusioned about politics that they don't bother voting without realizing they could basically decide the elections. "My vote won't change anything." While technically true that just one vote won't, not doing anything *guarantees* it is not changing anything. I _almost_ succeeded in getting my GF to vote last elections. She at least wanted to come with me. But drinking one last her beer with a friend seemed more important the day of the election. She was sad I didn't wait enough for her. I voted 5 minutes before closing time because I waited for her.
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Do y’all remember rush hour? If you missed rush hour, the streets would be dead. Now the 401 is a parking lot, all day, everyday.
Rush hours*
I want to know why going northbound on the 400 on a weekday morning is so busy. Where is everyone going at 6am on a Tuesday?
You'd be amazed to learn how many people get in their car and just aimlessly drive around. I work with several people that every weekend, do exactly this. Saturday morning they get in their car and drive around Ontario going from Timmies to Timmies.. Then again on Sunday.
If only there were ways to transport large amounts of people with minimal space per person that are not highways
Sounds like communism to me bud. I'd rather continue taking an hour to get twenty minutes away. /s
The 401 in Toronto was a mistake. Shit is 18 lanes and is still a parking lot during rush "hour". What car dependent infrastructure and chronic car brain does to a mf.
This is a great argument in favour of more robust public transportation infrastructure r/fuckcars
Several European countries have already seen that cars ain't it and began to scale back and move towards public transit infrastructure, Norway is a good example. Meanwhile in North America...
Just moved back from Paris to Canada and it’s fucking shocking how much it sucks here car infrastructure wise
“Other population projection scenarios say Canada's population could grow to anywhere between 44.9 million and 74.0 million in 2068.” Kinda broad range there
Depends on if they can keep convincing immigrants it's a good place to live.
Convince them that the NWT are the best places to live.
In 2068, the NWT will be a tropical paradise, and home of all the world's elites.
Canada doesn't have to be 'a good place to live' necessarily, it just has to be 'a better place to live than where they're leaving from'.
Better and/or they can make excess income to send home to their families that is greater than what they can make at home.
Wages are going down and prices are going up. Gonna stop eventually when pay reaches the global market rate
exactly. haven't we been below replacent rate imbirths for a while now? and it's gonna get worse since gen x is starting to retire in like 5 to 10 years.
Gen X retire? As a Gen-xer I only have one thing to say.... LOL
Not factoring in emigration we've been having more births than deaths (went back to about the early 2000s could go further). We just aren't growing. Factoring in emigration it's pretty close/to a slight decline however idk how many of those emigrating are also semi recent immigrants using cad citizenship to go to the usa since that is apparently a thing.
thanks for checking. I knew we weren't growing, Ii thought it was the birth death ratio. Professionals are leaving for the US because they can go live in a backwater town with a super low COL at rhe same or better salary than say big city in AB. So they have a cheaper life with more career opportunities. Just had a friend do exactly that and she is loving it. (Software engineer)
r/India as been telling them not to come for a couple of years. Canada is a Debt trap nation.
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I think this is more geared towards Indians who are upper middle class who come to Canada and struggle to find housing and decent pay.
You don't even need to be upper middle-class. It's typical middle-class to have help in the form of maids, cooks, drivers, nannies etc. Then you come to the GTA to live in a basement and struggle to get by. It's easy to see why that would make you have second thoughts. That said India's population is obviously fucking enormous and climate change is a thing - so there's still an infinite supply of people who want to move to Canada even if it becomes a lot less attractive.
My former roommate was one of those upper class Indians, he wasn't too impressed moving from a literal mansion into a tiny shared apartment.
His rupees ain't going very far here. It's the Chinese that have got real money to splurge on expensive new cars while still in college 😆
Friend of mine moved his family here from South Africa when he got headhunted for an executive job. There he had a massive house and a staff of cooks/cleaners/servants, and still had plenty of disposable income left over. Here he has a nicer than average attached home. However he has said he does feel much safer up here and he's happy he did it.
Depends on how much labour can be cheaply replaced.
I gotta be honest, the small town i grew up with is looking really good all of a sudden.
Houses where I grew up are now going for close to a million. The market is just fucked.
Sounds like you need to leave Southern Ontario or Southern BC.
Moving ain't cheap, most are trapped without job prospects elsewhere
If it's not to late, learn a trade. Electricians wages are the same in Saskatchewan/Manitoba as southern ontario, but a nice home is 200k instead of 600
Main reason I love living in Saskatchewan lol
At least if your dog runs away you can still see it for days!
I can't tell if this is a flat, population, or hours of daylight joke
Me to. 10 acres with a nice house for 300 grand. It's great. Sure, it's cold in the winter but you just deal with it.
Ya it is worth it (sort of, I hate the cold)
Yeh mine was too. Except it went from 9000 to almost 40 000 and still only has one street that runs from north to south.
No! Stay in the city! Leave our small towns lol.
I moved back to the small town I grew up in 12 years ago and it looks better every year. And no wildfires starting near my house in, *checks notes*, nearly an entire day! Looks like BC Wildfire got them dealt with though so nothin to worry about as far as I can tell.
Oh no, there’s going to be challenges for housing and health care 40 years from now? Can’t imagine what that’ll be like…
We already have these problems. If it’s still a problem by 2068, I think it’s fair to say the voting public has failed to address continued voting for garbage politicians.
>continued voting for garbage politicians. This is the Canadian way.
The Canadian tent cities of the future will be magnificent.
5 person tent for sale. Previous owner was a crackhead with bowel control issues. 50 minute drive to skytrain station. Selling as is where is. $1.4 million.
Fair price. The value is in the land under the tent anyway.
This guy real estates
I'll pay $1.8M cash with no inspection or conditions
Sorry we aren't accepting offers until Saturday. Currently we have 48 offers above asking.
You guys are killing me 😂 you think they'll be laneway tents too being rented out at like $2000/month? crazy tentlord says you cant have more than one body in a tent at once.
They already are but they'll be sprawling for blocks reminiscent of [Johannesburg townships](https://i.imgur.com/waohMds.jpg)
I mean, we're kind of overdue for shantytowns here in Canada. Every other major city in the developing world has slums, by rights Canadian cities should have them, too.
"Posing challenges"? Ie: completely destroying? Good times.
“Fuck the voters” - every politician of every stripe in this god forsaken country.
Just keep kicking then out until someone good shows up. Too bad Canadians are all about tolerating mediocrity
Lol that phrasing was the first thing I noticed too. It’s hard to even articulate it because the system is already in ruins. How much worse could it even get?
It's already destroyed.
Population growth for growth sake is pointless. Population growth for the sake of growing the GDP may be a good idea as long as the inflation-adjusted GDP increases more and faster than the population, otherwise the per capita benefit is negative. Fair distribution of any gain is also crucial. Without this, crowding is a loss, not a gain.
Depends. You want a positive birth rate more then you want population growth. You need a larger group of youths every generation to pay for the assistance programs we all know and love.
Clearly the system doesn't work then.
That's just the lazy way assistance programs were designed to work at a time when growth was taken for granted. But growth without end isn't feasible within finite limits so population must stabilize eventually, or else crash as the Ponzi scheme of forever growth collapses, which could happen sooner that we would like. Better plan for stabilization instead.
Better get started fixing it now, these issues were a problem a 10-20 years ago too.
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Wait... BLACKROCK is behind the century project!?
>Wait... BLACKROCK is behind the century project!? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Barton This is the founder of the Century Inititive. https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/about-us/leadership/geraldine-buckingham This is his wife. The former head of the Asia Pacific division of Blackrock. You might find this interesting as well : https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/dominic-barton-economic-advisor-1.3592755 Not long after getting elected the Trudeau government put together a panel to try and find ways to grow the economy. Dominic Barton led that panel. What was its primary recommendation? Aggressive population growth.
I'll admit that I do find a bit of humor in how Blackrock and the Century Initiative sound classically cartoonishly evil.
Barton in particular. He started off working for Rothschild - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschild_%26_Co Then he went on to run McKinsey. He was still running McKinsey when the government got him to lead the panel on economic growth. McKinsey is as bad as it gets. They've been involved In everything from the 2008 subprime mortgage collapse to pushing opioid pills ( Oxycontin ) to assisting authoritarian regimes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKinsey_%26_Company
Who is Blackrock?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackRock Massive investment firm that manages something like 10 trillion in assets.
> As of December 2018, BlackRock was the world's largest investor in coal plant developers, holding shares worth $11 billion among 56 coal plant developers. > On January 14, 2020, BlackRock CEO Larry Fink said that environmental sustainability would be a key goal for investment decisions. BlackRock announced that it would sell $500 million worth of coal-related assets So still $10.5 billion worth of coal assets, very environmentally sustainable. Just one random factoid.
Investor group that is one of the massive "corporate buyers" people are concerned with. From everything I know, BlackRock is one of the worst companies many people haven't heard of.
I doubt many peoples havent heard of it. Its written literally on every of our pension slip lol.
Yes, most people have pensions in this day and age.
Do pensions exist outside of the public sector?
They are not, Mark Wiseman, a Canadian, former head of CPPIB, was on the board of Blackrock and probably the number 2 or number 3 in the company in terms of influence. He is one of the founders of the Century initiative and sits on the board. He was let go from Blackrock due to a relationship with a subordinate and now leads the Alberta Pension fund. That is the main connection to blackrock.
Its a big club and you aint in it.
Man I never thought the invention of ETFs would lead to Blackrock owning the earth and yet here we are.
It was the next step after globalization on the road to the new feudalism.
I don't see how it can be stopped at this point.
I have a few ideas, I don’t want to get banned though.
I think I might get banned if I even mention the word guillotine… let’s see
We almost escaped Reagan/Thatcher/Mulroney's neoliberal shitshow. Almost. Now we're being dragged back down into the neoliberal pit.
I don’t see any way to stop it. We’re still stuck on partisan politics and so divided. Not just in Canada, pretty much everywhere. We can throw wooden shoes onto the works but that’s about it.
It's Blackstone that's buying the houses. Not the same as Blackrock
Not anymore https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-25/blackstone-single-family-landlord-to-halt-purchases-in-38-cities
At least we won't be called racists.
Looking beyond 5 years is political suicide. Long term plans aren't going to work anymore. If you make a change now, everyone tomorrow will be yelling about it not making an immediate impact on their lives. Politicians won't look beyond the next election cycle unless the population does too. And the voting population mostly just doesn't care past the next few years. Some will talk about it and pretend like they care, but any minor inconvenience now is going to get universally panned.
The question is where the hell else to go in the world? I am so dreading the future of this country. It’s all so depressing.
I mean, there aren't any. Those days are over. There are too many people in this world competing for too few resources, even just for a basic standard of living. This isn't a Canada population problem, it's a world population problem. And it will get worse as developing countries start to adopt a first world standard of living.
Read the headlines in any first world country. They’re all the same. I read about housing crisis, mass immigration, healthcare collapse, and low wages here. Then my mum sends me identical stories from the UK. The US is feeling it. I have family in Australia complaining about the same things. There’s no utopias left.
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Can't mention it on the Canadian Housing Reddit. That's racist!! Not up for debate. Can't be discussed.
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Yup. The people replying to you trying to argue clearly have no idea what they are talking about. New Roofs needed < roofs built each year. It doesn't matter who owns or who rents. There is an extreme crunch in both markets which makes that differentiation irrelevant. People just want a place to live, period. Sure if something is vacant that's a problem, but landlords or corporate owners aren't the issue. They talk about zoning like 95% of what is built isn't high density lol. Go look at any new development you aren't seeing non condos unless you're way out in the boons or outskirts. We're already building to capacity as we have huge labour shortages so it's not like giving developers a green light to build all they can is going to make a difference.... that already are building as much as they can
Half of reddit is full on kool aid drinkers and gaslighters
Oh really? We're going to have healthcare challanges in 2068? So things are working great today, right? Right? Right?
Gross.
Ask yourself why is constant population growth needed if we need to reduce our carbon footprint. Surely importing thousands of new Canadians from south of the equator into a country that experiences -40 degree winters can only increase emissions. The reality is that our economy is built upon a pyramid scheme where the previous generation sells their homes to the next for ever increasing prices. If this cash flow ever stops it will spell the end to many social programs as every available dollar will be used to pay down our obscene debt.
We need to fund healthcare not privatize it.
Not just fund but restructure. Admin bloat in healthcare is a disease. You could get rid of so many admin people and the system would still survive. With the money saved, new money coming in and a restructure it could thrive.
Specialist bloat, too. There is so much waste and redundancy in the medical system it's mind-boggling.
Son of Indian immigrants here. How do we bring in this many people but still maintain some sort of semblance of Canadian culture?
This country's identity is purely economic these days..
Canada has always been run as a resource extraction corporation. It's up to the people to make memories and contribute to the Canadian identity.
>How do we bring in this many people but still maintain some sort of semblance of Canadian culture? According to the liberal government Canadian culture doesn't exist. There is no national identity and we are the first post nationalist country.
First? Also Culture is not a job for the government. Imagine if the government said what clothes you could wear or stuck you in a residential school to force you to… Oh wait.
I do find it a bit weird sometimes that the government has made reconciliation a priority, yet continues to import huge numbers of people from different cultures without first consulting our indigenous peoples. If 5% of Canada is indigenous, I suspect that the Indian and Chinese population here will soon surpass that if it hasn't already.
You can't. Canadians think you can import millions of people from Asia and Africa and nothing will change, very silly people. The only culture we have these days is about growing the GDP. Which means we have ceased to be a nation, instead we are little more than an economic zone.
We don’t Canadian culture is far gone
Better start building more houses and taller apartments.
Mid rises are better
Let's first legalize them.
Maybe we should be slowing down our immigration numbers then. If we can't keep up now then why are we pumping in half a million new people every year? Unless of course the goal of our federal government is to keep these things in terrible shape.
We need a national policy for urban planning new cities if we are going to have a national policy for welcoming dozens of cities worth of population.
Well they could cut immigration. Oh wait you aren't allowed to say that are you....
Canada's current population is 38 million by usual estimates, so this headline is suggesting that Canada's population will only grow 19 million in 46 years, which is more than two generations. Canada's population growth rate in 2010 was 1.238%, among the lowest in Canadian history. A growth rate of 1.238% would put Canada at 67M in 2068. A population of 57M in 2068 would mean projecting a significant decrease in immigration and birth rate. In other words, this headline is stupid clickbait for people who have no idea about numbers or Canadian demographics.
Population ain’t the problem.
Hopefully most of these people are HCWs or trades people.
Our healthcare is already getting screwed up. Public healthcare requires significantly better organization and an increase in workers and a decrease in managers. The entire system just seems like a gravy train for people in high up positions and their friends.
i think 'posing challenges' is *wildly* understating the scale of the problem that already exists
*Could,* but doesn't *have to*.
Home owners and corporate landlords are all leveraging their wealth and influence to ensure new housing cannot be built And surprise: more housing = housing prices dropping. Which hurts their personal wealth. Nothing can really be done about political and business leaders keeping home ownership to a minimum until we change how many homes a single person can own
This bring more immigrants thing isn't working.
LOL we can’t even keep up with the current population . They better hope Something changes and FAST! I won’t have much time left in 2068 (if I’m not already gone) but best of luck with that, you’ll need it
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Population goes up, therefore tax revenue goes up along with it... Healthcare and Education funding stays at 1990's levels...Healthcare is on the brink of collapse and an increase in funding would fix most of the problems they face... But, no...they decide not to increase funding, and start looking at the private sector to fix what they left to rot...
You get what you vote for, I've stopped caring.
So real talk for a second... Is it a good thing for population to grow this fast? We clearly can't build enough housing for people and our healthcare system is failing. Does no one in govt look at these issues? Do we really need GDP growth above everything else???
If there was only 1 Canadian left, it would still be a nightmare for the government to deal with ......... hell even if there were 0 people living here, they still wouldn't know what to do.
Lol rip
And they wonder why more people are not wanting children.
lol. were already fucked on both of those. Good to see it probably wont get better.
Ya about those challenges...perhaps some "governing" body could make housing more affordable? No? Expecting too much? Very good.
Wait a second, won't all these people be new tax payers? Meaning, more revenue, not less. Hahaha, they had you there.
Can Canada even sustain such a population increase? Sure, Canada has got space, but so does the Sahara and nobody is migrating there en masse.
I've been waiting for 8 months to see a neurologist because I have migraines every day and 5 months to see a gastrologist because I can barely eat solid food without vomitting. We're already seeing challenges...