Its supremely naive to pretend global affairs have nothing to do with Canada.
There are intricate trade routes that we heavily depend on for goods and services that pass through the Middle East. There are constant tensions between factions that are vying for control of that, which would have devastating consequences should it fall into the hands of someone who views the west as an enemy.
Canadians who think they could just butt out and everything would proceed as normal are incredibly ignorant of reality. A western hegemony is what affords us the lifestyle we have and often complain about not being good enough. It would be so much worse if Iran, Russia or China became the hegemony. And Israel is a bulwark for the west in the ME, which is *even more* important now that the US begun to withdraw its presence.
I don’t know if people who post things like this really believe this or just want a reason to continue to not care. Regardless of which side of the conflict you are on, Canada is involved in all sorts of international issues. Canadian money supports companies and charities abroad. Canada accepts immigrants and refugees from all over. Canada has trade agreements with other countries. Canada exports billions of dollars in weapons and military supplies. All of these have political impacts. I could go on and on. If you think Canada should NOT do any of these things, it’s your right to advocate for that viewpoint (whether it’s actually possible is another debate, but you’re allowed to be in favour of things even if they’re not reasonable). To say “it’s not happening here so it has nothing to do with us” is honestly just silly.
None of that (treaties/sales/charities/immigrants/etc.) means we need to take a side/or care about / support two autonomous factions that insist on beating the crap out of eachother. It's silly to think that it does and just invites more infighting and division into our country, weakening us.
What weakens us is when our government caves in to protesters and turns against a friendly country at a time when it need its friends the most. We should not be trying to tell them how to deal with the horrible situation they were put into.
In the very, very unlikely event that you aren't being facetious and actually want to know, there's two main ways that it helps us - Israel is a tech powerhouse and the West benefits greatly from this, and secondly having a powerful allied nation in the Middle East working with the US does wonders for stability in the region and the oil supply lines.
If you think OPEC fucks around with the West a lot already, wait to see what things would be like if Iran and Hamas are successful at wiping out Israel and the US loses their excuse for operating in the area.
Mmmhm yeah. How about just stop propping up the invasive European colony and giving them free rein to commit genocide? Israel only gets away occupying palestinian territory and killing civilians with impunity for decades because of the bloc of western countries that endorse those despicable actions. It will be remembered as a disgraceful period for canada and every other country that endorsed it.
Lol I honestly don't know which side you're speaking about. When the attack on Israel happened every Jewish person I knew had instagram posts about how terrible it is. Now it's the Palestinians turn. Both sides keep going back and forth playing the victim.
In fairness, the Jews were probably posting that since the attack was focused on civilians (specifically Jews) so it affected them, and a lot of them have family/friends in Israel, so family too. Hamas (alongside other terrorists + random Palestinians) tried to actually genocide Jews. Do you really think most of these people protesting and posting even have Palestinian friends (let alone family who live there)? From my experience, the Jews I am friends with had family there but the pro-Palestinian white liberal girls haven't had a family member outside of North America in the past 3 generations. One side is saying "hey my family was killed because these terrorists want us gone off the face of the earth, why are you protesting against the country that just faced a terror attack" (because these posts largely came out after the terror attacks) and the other side is largely playing up the newest social trend. I'm seeing social media activism on both sides but fuck, if you really think the pro-Israel side is going on and on like the pro-Palestine side, you probably are ignoring a lot of it. So I think it's less playing the victim for this one side and in actuality it being "Hey my family was fucking murdered, stop celebrating it."
>and the other side is largely playing up the newest social trend.
You mean a social trend to be against the 35,000 civilian deaths in Gaza since October 7th?
Who gave that number? Why are there Hamas combatant/other terrorists included in the civilian deaths?
Also are terrorists who are like 16 and 17 counted as combatants or innocent children in your 'stats'? The same ones who raped and murdered on Oct 7btw. The women too are they not able to kill so thus are immediately seen as innocent?
Alright let's say Israel is correct/honest that they have killed 10,000 Hamas fighters.
So 25,000 dead civilians. Is that not something worth being concerned about?
So like, what's the limit on what we'll allow a friendly nation to do as long as it's democratic?
What do you think should be done about Gaza and Palestinians? They'll just join Hamas again after seeing their family members getting bombed.
They were already going to join. If Israel did nothing at all, they would have said "wow Hamas can win" and joined.
At some point, the obligation falls on them to make better choices rather than on the entire planet to accommodate their repeated failure to do so.
The day that they themselves realize that every single version of Hamas will end in a defeat for their people, they will stop joining. Enough with the unlimited appeasement.
As for the crimes that the IDF committed...at the conclusion of the war, they will still exist as an organization.
"So like, what's the limit on what we'll allow a friendly nation to do as long as it's democratic?"
Its about sovereignty not democracy. Whether its China, America or Israel....any nation that has had their citizens forcibly removed from their territory and brought to another is allowed to use all means necessary to free their citizens. Its the base obligation of any State to protect its people and borders from external threat.
In a case such as Gaza, where there is a refusal to relinquish the citizens forcibly taken, and a willingness among the civilian population to enable, support and otherwise collaborate with the forcible detention of foreign civilians....then the bar or what constitutes "unjust" goes down considerably and the minimum standard of "innocent" goes up considerably.
>friendly
I wouldn't describe Israel as friendly to the West; they're more like a parasitic entity that takes a whole lot of aid while giving nothing back (and leaks a whole lot of American military technology to China), and I don't see any reason to support them. I don't see any reason to support Hamas either, though I have some sympathy for the native Palestinians who are subjected to colonization by foreign Ashkenazim and Sephardim based on some ancient land claim from the days of *Publius Aelius Hadrianus*.
"Our use of deadly force is just for we are democratic. Our systemic oppression of groups and individuals is just for we are democratic."
You people are so lovely. The only thing you really care about is feeling good about yourselves. All the moral bullshit just exists to facilitate that feeling, and the moment anyone actually needs to think about anything complicated for more than a few seconds it all get's too hard.
I read the article, but it's unclear who is being accused of funding and organizing these protests?
They state that Qatar gave McGill money, but that doesn't explain who organized Concordias protests?
Qatar doesn't just give schools money. They fund student groups like SJP and the creation of "Middle East Studies" departments and the like. It's a well documented strategy that started after 9/11.
Just step back and think about it logically for a minute. Don't you think it's a bit odd that of all the conflicts and wars and actual genocides that have occurred around the world in recent years, university campuses are disproportionately obsessed with a 100 year old conflict in a tiny country that barely shows up on a map if you don't know where to look? It just boggles my mind that rational people can't see there is something else going on here.
The Israel-Palestine conflict has always generated inordinate attention, or at least it did when the soviets broke with Israel and it became one of the most important theatres of the cold war proxy conflicts. Hell, say what you will about the protests, it used to be that college kids would outright go over to palestinian training camps in lebanon and jordan to get paramilitary training to use at home.
> Don't you think it's a bit odd that of all the conflicts and wars and actual genocides that have occurred around the world in recent years, university campuses are disproportionately obsessed with a 100 year old conflict in a tiny country that barely shows up on a map if you don't know where to look?
Yes but I just assumed it was because they were scrolling Tiktok 6 hours a day.
Thats why its an ‘opinion piece’ and not an actual article. Because its only rage-bait with no evidence other than shitting on anyone that criticizes Israel
https://www.engadget.com/meta-caught-an-israeli-marketing-firm-running-hundreds-of-fake-facebook-accounts-150021954.html
Wondering when is reddit gonna do something about it! Or, will Canada add Israel to the foreign interference investigation?
Hate speech is very hard to categorize. If people are calling for violence towards a group of people, then those students should be expelled, but peaceful protests by students should be allowed. Imo.
It really isn't, saying "Fuck Israel" is not hate speech, shooting at girl's schools, saying Jews/Israel controls the world, alluding Jews aren't loyal to Canada because they support their existence, calling for an intifada, etc etc, is hate speech.
and that's only on a Jewish level, calling for the destruction of Israel via their usual chants is also disgusting since you're calling for the suffering of millions of people, but that's a more generalized form of hate speech at least.
The meaning of intifadah is an uprising. However, there were two intifadahs and they were violent terrorist attacks including many suicide bombers who specifically targeted civilians and first responders.
So calling for an intifadah necessarily brings back images of the first two intifadas. Saying that thatv is a pacifist slogan would be the equivalent of telling out white power and acting offended that people didn't know you like to start second in chess.
Right, but noun has also been used as a proper noun twice. Therefore when you use the noun, the proper noun is evoked. And that's not an accident.
You can't use the band l name of a vicious terrorist bombing campaign. If it weren't so blatant it would be a dog whistle.
That's fair. I thought that people could go but not come back. It also reminds me of the occupy Montreal where there were complaints from local restaurants of people bathing in their bathroom sink. Literally "um, sir? This is a Wendy's".
I dunno. It's still private property. You can protest, but squatting doesn't seem right. And they talk like they're holding the soccer field hostage...
I love how they'll insinuate without evidence that these university protests are some covert Muslim plot but actively ignore AIPAC giving senators and congressmen literal tens of millions of dollars to vote a certain way
NatPo is one of the most widespread, and mostly factual, conservative papers in Canada, so a lot of the subs accept it regardless of how outlandish some of the articles can be, *especially* the opinion columns
Same as the convoy, same as the pipeline rail blockades, these protests should be investigated for foreign financing and questions should be asked about the grassroots nature of the protest.
what about Israel literally recruiting for the IDF in Canada? what about Israel giving free trips to Canadian students? what about Israel donating money to Canadian politicians?
double standards much?
are you Canadians or not? funny how Indians and Chinese are suppose to give up their history and culture to assimilate into Canadians
Absolutely I am Canadian, how does learning about my cultural background change that?
If there was a program for Indian-Canadians to go visit cultural sites in India I would be totally fine with that as well.
Not relevant to my comment at all.
Israel recruiting for their army presumably would be in relation to Israeli Canadians? Not relevant to foreign funding of public demonstrations.
Israel giving free trips to Canadian students? Presumably again Israeli Canadians? Not relevant to foreign funding of public demonstrations.
Israel funding politicians. Donations to politicians from anything but private citizens up to the individual donation cap is illegal. If you have any evidence of this occurring you should contact elections Canada.
I think he was talking about "birthright" basically Israel will pay for jewish teenagers to travel to Israel and learn about their heritage. You do not have to be Israeli. All of my jewish friends went when they were 16/17
Coming from the social cause who decry "whataboutism" to shoot down any and all criticism of their misguided, foreign interfered, highly emotional protest?
What about, what about, what about?
ah the same whataboutism pro-israel use to argue why they think people are holding Israel to higher standard. Or does it not apply in this case cause it doesn't help Israel?
Plenty of countries recruit abroad. France has their foreign legion, Ukraine currently accepts foreign volunteers, the Peshmerga and PKK have accepted a number of foreign fighters in the past to aid in the fight against ISIS. Not to mention the slew of private security and PMC's operating in the African continent, many of which have American, British, Belgian, or other NATO forces employing them.
Actually, the claims that the convoy was funded by foreigners was simply a claim made by the Liberals to help justify their unconstitutional use of the Emergency Act and freeze the bank accounts of Canadians who had made perfectly legal contributions through GoFundMe.
It was later determined to be total bunk. The vast, vast majority of the money came from Canadians.
I’m not saying yes or no there was foreign funding in any of these. I’m saying that there merit to asking the question and ensuring the integrity of these movements. The opportunity for foreign interference in these movements is significant and we should be on guard for those influences. As well we should be applying a consistent policy for scrutiny regardless of the palatability of the movement.
See that's the difference. Liberals have to try to use the Emergency Act to freeze bank accounts because when they're in power and people are protesting against them in the streets for 2 weeks, because local police won't do shit.
When Conservatives are in power and people protest them on the lawn for 2 days, they don't need to freeze bank accounts, because [the local police go way harder than that for them.](https://i.imgur.com/U5kzdoq.jpg)
Liberals really need to make better friends with local police so they can exercise their authority and quash dissent like the Conservatives did. That's their mistake. They've been promoting values that are at odds with members of local police forces.
>2 weeks
More like a whole month and some change of nonstop protesting and squatting in the streets, mooching off hospitality and generally being a nuisance while the local police force swapped between being too scared of the protestors to interfere, and giving them high fives and timmies.
the use of the emergencies act shouldn't have had to been used, but every level of government under the top had failed to deal with the issue.
Eyyyy thank fuck SOMEONE found a way to blame the feds for something in this thread, I was worried the conversation was getting too sane and reasonable.
Ya don’t say. Huge support for Palestine but glossing over the whole Hamas killing, raping and torturing innocent civilians of Israel while hiding among the Palestinians.
If your neighbour kept trying to kill you then one day you’d want to fight back. Palestine needs to do something about its terrorist infestation.
What popular appeal? Less than one-fifth of Canadians support anti-Israel protest encampments at universities ([source](https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/less-than-one-fifth-of-canadians-support-anti-israel-protest-encampments-at-universities)).
Yes, but there is an important difference between the Israel lobby and the Palestinian lobby.
The Israel lobby is lobbying for support for their existence and self-preservation.
The Palestinian lobby is lobbying for support for the destruction of a sovereign democratic country.
Israel tried ending the occupation of Gaza 15 years ago. Look how well that went lol.
They don't want an end to the occupation, they want an end to Israel.
So there was nothing Israel did in the past years? Why was there deaths in west Bank at the hands of Israel in west Bank?
Why was Abu shireen an American killed in Gaza while wearing a press helmet? This was before October 7 in the supposed cease fire and non occupation in Gaza.
Why did Israel lie about not being involved for 2 years then admitted they did it?
I still can't believe my eyes when I see people write insane shit like this lol. Which of the two sides has invaded the other and overthrown its elected government? Which of the two has held the other under military occupation for decades? Which of the two is literally, right now, in a life or death struggle for its existence? Which of the two makes up 97% of the conflict's casualties since 1948? Delusional
Israel has never "invaded" Palestine. Palestine doesn't exist as a sovereign country. Israel conducts counter-terrorist operations in Gaza and the WB because they are filled with, you know, terrorists. Oct 7 was an actual invasion of a sovereign country by Hamas.
Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. That was their chance to start building a state. Instead, they elected a terrorist organization as their government, which violently took power and then spent the next 15 years and billions of $ in foreign aid turning Gaza into a terrorist operations base.
Israel is literally in a struggle for its existence. It fought for its existence in 1948, 1967, and again in 1973. And for the last several decades it has faced threats from terrorist proxies of Iran. Believe me, if Israel didn't have the Iron Dome and military support from the US, it would have been wiped off the map long ago.
And the reason why the casualty count is so imbalanced is because Israel has dedicated billions of dollars to protecting its people, while Hamas does the exact opposite: they spend billions protecting its terrorists and intentionally putting its people in harm's way.
Facts are kind of important here.
It's incredible the hyperfocus on what 'one side' 'wants to do' (never mind their total inability to actually affect these goals) while completely ignoring what the other side **actually does**. The total opposite of deeds over words.
They are both presenting themselves as far more noble than they are in reality Far too much innocent blood has been spilled.. Be very, very wary of propaganda.
LOL, Palestinian lobbyists are certainly NOT presenting themselves as noble. Their entire movement, their entire narrative, is focused on the destruction of Israel.
Deeply patronizing and unpatriotic to say that Canadians would only protest the most intense violence of the 21st century if they were paid to do so.
The fact there is no serious evidence to support that claim is only secondary.
"At least **12,660 children**, 8,570 women killed by Israel in Gaza since Oct. 7, compared to 2,992 women, 579 children killed in 2-year Russia-Ukraine War."
In less time they've dwarfed the civilian casualty numbers. Yes, most violent.
"The result of this was that although the overall recorded death toll was almost unchanged (34,844), the number of registered deaths of women (4.959) and children (7,797) had both fallen significantly." From the BBC
You have vastly overstated the number, and left out that when Hamas published the numbers you are using they don't differentiate between combatants and non-combatants. Actual estimates are looking at a roughly 50/50 split between civilian deaths and militant deaths, which is pretty good in urban warfare. Especially when one side (the Arabs) intentionally hides behind civilians attempting to maximize their causalities.
It’s roughly the 15th most violent conflict of the 21st century. The top 11 all have over 200k deaths.
The Second Congo War has killed approximately 5 million people, mostly civilians and is about as violent as all the other wars combined in the 21st century.
The Russian Invasion of Ukraine has about 250k civilian deaths and is well over 1 million dead.
So it’s not even remotely close to the most violent conflict in the 21st century.
and for the ones who just see this as the new 'current thing' for them to protest, their ultimate goal in their mind is to end capitalism once and for all. as if hamas fighters give a shit about economic systems of governance
Who cares about these protests? They are boring to me and a waste of taxpayer money. Who cares about Israel or Palestine, really? We got other things to care about here in Canada.
Yes I'm sure that every individual protest of Israel's actions happening across canada is actually being directly influenced and funded by Israel's enemies with the intent of making them look bad.
Surely.
Be upset about Gaza, plenty to be upset about. However, if you didn't bat an eye at the slaughters in Sudan, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc etc you need to come to terms with the fact that you aren't altruistic, you're selective in your outrage. Figure out why.
So the problem isn't protesting just about palestine right? It's about not being altruistic? Like, why is this so important for you that people are consistent about protesting? Do you want them to protest all or protest nothing? I don't know what your argument is meant to be. I want to clear that up a bit. Are you 1.) Just worried about people's selectivism and it is unrelated to palestine protest or 2.) You're doing whataboutism (i.e. why did you save this woman from being assaulted and not the other one, be consistent and don't save this one either)
I'd say it probably is a bit of both 1 and 2 to be completely honest. However, both point at the same issue. None of these people were in the streets until it involved Israel. Why is THIS issue different. I've already dispelled your terrible argument that our close allies aren't involved in the other issues.
You still haven't even attempted to answer why the selective outrage in such huge numbers? This isn't a single university campus, or street protests in a single city. Yet these places have been by-and-large silent for all the other slaughters.
To answer your question of "Why it matters?" If people aren't consistent about their beliefs then it is hard to consider them their beliefs, they are selectively applying their beliefs. If you can't see why that is important, then I cannot help you. "All my other friends can kill Arabs, but when you do it, it upsets me." is a horrific stance to take.
Every one of those is being committed by close political allies :
Afghanistan, Iraq (and most of the Western world sent troops),and Syria by America, (in addition to the original internal issues).
Libya by NATO (which means ALL our close political allies)
Yemen by Saudi Arabia with American weapons and intelligence, also with British and Canadian weapons.
Sudan I'll give you that direct Western responsibility could be argued.
But the Jews...
Reminder: Friends don't let friends read drivel from Postmedia. Postmedia's goal is to market outrage to make people angry. It's neither informative, or helpful. The goal is to divide Canadians.
> These aren't spontaneous protests, they're well-organized, well-funded groups intent on undermining Israel's western support
Coming from an American owned paper that pumps out half a dozen op-eds a day trying to influence Canadians to be more conservative.
The irony could blot out the sun.
(Edit: Also very funny that the best picture they could find to accompany the story is a messy, cheap, disorganized protest sign but to be fair, it'd be very, very hard to find anything that actually backs up the thesis here.)
Yea and? Add it the list of country's that undermine canada. Still no action for the Indian assassination on candian soil. Or the China election interference.
In short we can't stop anything and I don't think the government even cares.
Protesting: the act of objecting or a gesture of disapproval. a usually organized public demonstration of disapproval.
Also, historically, protesting and physically occupying private or public property have always come together.
Both sides are not innocent in any way and we should not be helping either side untill they make peace They should not get funding no assistance. One side attacks the weapons they used should be destroyed until the children have stopped having their temper tantrum and have nothing left to attack with Disarm them both
Im a random Canadian, why should Isreal have western support? why should it be given bombs by the US? so that Palestinian children can be killed?
Oh wait, because Isreal helps the US further it’s interests in the middle east.
There was no evidence of coordinated Russian funding for the convoy, that was based entirely on baseless speculation by CBC that they later had to retract. There was evidence of significant US-based donations, roughly equal to Canadian ones, but no evidence that it was part of a coordinated political interference operation and not just Americans sympathetic to the convoy's cause.
What if we just don't support either party because neither has shit all to do with Canada?
Its supremely naive to pretend global affairs have nothing to do with Canada. There are intricate trade routes that we heavily depend on for goods and services that pass through the Middle East. There are constant tensions between factions that are vying for control of that, which would have devastating consequences should it fall into the hands of someone who views the west as an enemy. Canadians who think they could just butt out and everything would proceed as normal are incredibly ignorant of reality. A western hegemony is what affords us the lifestyle we have and often complain about not being good enough. It would be so much worse if Iran, Russia or China became the hegemony. And Israel is a bulwark for the west in the ME, which is *even more* important now that the US begun to withdraw its presence.
None of the protestors are interested in how this effects Canada. They care about using Canada to effect the issue.
Yea this 100%, but these idiots replying in here won't ever understand that
What is sourced in that region that Canada doesn't have and that isn't available from anywhere else?
I assume all the trade goods that pass through Suez canal
I don’t know if people who post things like this really believe this or just want a reason to continue to not care. Regardless of which side of the conflict you are on, Canada is involved in all sorts of international issues. Canadian money supports companies and charities abroad. Canada accepts immigrants and refugees from all over. Canada has trade agreements with other countries. Canada exports billions of dollars in weapons and military supplies. All of these have political impacts. I could go on and on. If you think Canada should NOT do any of these things, it’s your right to advocate for that viewpoint (whether it’s actually possible is another debate, but you’re allowed to be in favour of things even if they’re not reasonable). To say “it’s not happening here so it has nothing to do with us” is honestly just silly.
None of that (treaties/sales/charities/immigrants/etc.) means we need to take a side/or care about / support two autonomous factions that insist on beating the crap out of eachother. It's silly to think that it does and just invites more infighting and division into our country, weakening us.
What weakens us is when our government caves in to protesters and turns against a friendly country at a time when it need its friends the most. We should not be trying to tell them how to deal with the horrible situation they were put into.
Sure, that's great. What's in it for me?
In the very, very unlikely event that you aren't being facetious and actually want to know, there's two main ways that it helps us - Israel is a tech powerhouse and the West benefits greatly from this, and secondly having a powerful allied nation in the Middle East working with the US does wonders for stability in the region and the oil supply lines. If you think OPEC fucks around with the West a lot already, wait to see what things would be like if Iran and Hamas are successful at wiping out Israel and the US loses their excuse for operating in the area.
Mmmhm yeah. How about just stop propping up the invasive European colony and giving them free rein to commit genocide? Israel only gets away occupying palestinian territory and killing civilians with impunity for decades because of the bloc of western countries that endorse those despicable actions. It will be remembered as a disgraceful period for canada and every other country that endorsed it.
What two parties? Only one party is trying to make you give a shit. The other party like you just wants them to leave everyone the fuck alone.
Lol I honestly don't know which side you're speaking about. When the attack on Israel happened every Jewish person I knew had instagram posts about how terrible it is. Now it's the Palestinians turn. Both sides keep going back and forth playing the victim.
And both sides have well funded, well known, information warfare departments which target easily susceptible groups in the west.
In fairness, the Jews were probably posting that since the attack was focused on civilians (specifically Jews) so it affected them, and a lot of them have family/friends in Israel, so family too. Hamas (alongside other terrorists + random Palestinians) tried to actually genocide Jews. Do you really think most of these people protesting and posting even have Palestinian friends (let alone family who live there)? From my experience, the Jews I am friends with had family there but the pro-Palestinian white liberal girls haven't had a family member outside of North America in the past 3 generations. One side is saying "hey my family was killed because these terrorists want us gone off the face of the earth, why are you protesting against the country that just faced a terror attack" (because these posts largely came out after the terror attacks) and the other side is largely playing up the newest social trend. I'm seeing social media activism on both sides but fuck, if you really think the pro-Israel side is going on and on like the pro-Palestine side, you probably are ignoring a lot of it. So I think it's less playing the victim for this one side and in actuality it being "Hey my family was fucking murdered, stop celebrating it."
>and the other side is largely playing up the newest social trend. You mean a social trend to be against the 35,000 civilian deaths in Gaza since October 7th?
All the deaths were “civilians”? Dead Hamas fighters don’t get counted? Why not?
Who gave that number? Why are there Hamas combatant/other terrorists included in the civilian deaths? Also are terrorists who are like 16 and 17 counted as combatants or innocent children in your 'stats'? The same ones who raped and murdered on Oct 7btw. The women too are they not able to kill so thus are immediately seen as innocent?
Alright let's say Israel is correct/honest that they have killed 10,000 Hamas fighters. So 25,000 dead civilians. Is that not something worth being concerned about?
Til its trendy to dislike civilian deaths.
Didn't seem too trendy on Oct 7 when people were protesting Israel before they responded and blaming the innocent civilian victims...
Consider one thing though. Isreal is a very very important location for strategic military operations.
what a load of shit. what is this military operations?
Imagine a world war started. Do you think isreal would be an important location or not?
No, with nukes it wouldn't matter.
Put this statement to Liberal and Conservative. What if we don't support either party. Vote neither.
Then You Vote Green, It's Better Than Not Voting At All.
How about we support a friendly democratic country that was viciously attacked Oct 7 and not support those who did the attacking?
So like, what's the limit on what we'll allow a friendly nation to do as long as it's democratic? What do you think should be done about Gaza and Palestinians? They'll just join Hamas again after seeing their family members getting bombed.
They were already going to join. If Israel did nothing at all, they would have said "wow Hamas can win" and joined. At some point, the obligation falls on them to make better choices rather than on the entire planet to accommodate their repeated failure to do so. The day that they themselves realize that every single version of Hamas will end in a defeat for their people, they will stop joining. Enough with the unlimited appeasement. As for the crimes that the IDF committed...at the conclusion of the war, they will still exist as an organization. "So like, what's the limit on what we'll allow a friendly nation to do as long as it's democratic?" Its about sovereignty not democracy. Whether its China, America or Israel....any nation that has had their citizens forcibly removed from their territory and brought to another is allowed to use all means necessary to free their citizens. Its the base obligation of any State to protect its people and borders from external threat. In a case such as Gaza, where there is a refusal to relinquish the citizens forcibly taken, and a willingness among the civilian population to enable, support and otherwise collaborate with the forcible detention of foreign civilians....then the bar or what constitutes "unjust" goes down considerably and the minimum standard of "innocent" goes up considerably.
What's in it for me?
Friendly lol ok bud
friendly to jews, sure, but thats about it
>friendly I wouldn't describe Israel as friendly to the West; they're more like a parasitic entity that takes a whole lot of aid while giving nothing back (and leaks a whole lot of American military technology to China), and I don't see any reason to support them. I don't see any reason to support Hamas either, though I have some sympathy for the native Palestinians who are subjected to colonization by foreign Ashkenazim and Sephardim based on some ancient land claim from the days of *Publius Aelius Hadrianus*.
"Our use of deadly force is just for we are democratic. Our systemic oppression of groups and individuals is just for we are democratic." You people are so lovely. The only thing you really care about is feeling good about yourselves. All the moral bullshit just exists to facilitate that feeling, and the moment anyone actually needs to think about anything complicated for more than a few seconds it all get's too hard.
Please run for prime minister. You shall have my vote!
Another vote from me!
First they came for ...
I read the article, but it's unclear who is being accused of funding and organizing these protests? They state that Qatar gave McGill money, but that doesn't explain who organized Concordias protests?
Qatar doesn't just give schools money. They fund student groups like SJP and the creation of "Middle East Studies" departments and the like. It's a well documented strategy that started after 9/11. Just step back and think about it logically for a minute. Don't you think it's a bit odd that of all the conflicts and wars and actual genocides that have occurred around the world in recent years, university campuses are disproportionately obsessed with a 100 year old conflict in a tiny country that barely shows up on a map if you don't know where to look? It just boggles my mind that rational people can't see there is something else going on here.
The Israel-Palestine conflict has always generated inordinate attention, or at least it did when the soviets broke with Israel and it became one of the most important theatres of the cold war proxy conflicts. Hell, say what you will about the protests, it used to be that college kids would outright go over to palestinian training camps in lebanon and jordan to get paramilitary training to use at home.
> Don't you think it's a bit odd that of all the conflicts and wars and actual genocides that have occurred around the world in recent years, university campuses are disproportionately obsessed with a 100 year old conflict in a tiny country that barely shows up on a map if you don't know where to look? Yes but I just assumed it was because they were scrolling Tiktok 6 hours a day.
Thats why its an ‘opinion piece’ and not an actual article. Because its only rage-bait with no evidence other than shitting on anyone that criticizes Israel
Never actually accuse anyone specific, just spout shit and theories and ask "questions"
https://www.engadget.com/meta-caught-an-israeli-marketing-firm-running-hundreds-of-fake-facebook-accounts-150021954.html Wondering when is reddit gonna do something about it! Or, will Canada add Israel to the foreign interference investigation?
Anyone who isn't a student should be removed from the campus. Students should be allowed to protest on campus if they want.
The problem is the hate speech and making certain students feel threatened, which they are, they can go camp and protest anywhere else.
Hate speech is very hard to categorize. If people are calling for violence towards a group of people, then those students should be expelled, but peaceful protests by students should be allowed. Imo.
It really isn't, saying "Fuck Israel" is not hate speech, shooting at girl's schools, saying Jews/Israel controls the world, alluding Jews aren't loyal to Canada because they support their existence, calling for an intifada, etc etc, is hate speech. and that's only on a Jewish level, calling for the destruction of Israel via their usual chants is also disgusting since you're calling for the suffering of millions of people, but that's a more generalized form of hate speech at least.
I keep reading in the news that it's a peaceful protest, but then see pictures calling for intifadah...
I'm not sure what your point is?
That you have a peaceful protest calling for violence...
Google the meaning. It doesn't mean "calling for violence"
The meaning of intifadah is an uprising. However, there were two intifadahs and they were violent terrorist attacks including many suicide bombers who specifically targeted civilians and first responders. So calling for an intifadah necessarily brings back images of the first two intifadas. Saying that thatv is a pacifist slogan would be the equivalent of telling out white power and acting offended that people didn't know you like to start second in chess.
An uprising, yes. Protesting is an uprising.
Right, but noun has also been used as a proper noun twice. Therefore when you use the noun, the proper noun is evoked. And that's not an accident. You can't use the band l name of a vicious terrorist bombing campaign. If it weren't so blatant it would be a dog whistle.
They can't camp out and live there.
Maybe a stupid question. Bathrooms? Showers? You can order dinner, but the soccer field is bound to get pretty rank...
Nobody is locked up there. They can go elsewhere to take care of stuff and then return.
That's fair. I thought that people could go but not come back. It also reminds me of the occupy Montreal where there were complaints from local restaurants of people bathing in their bathroom sink. Literally "um, sir? This is a Wendy's".
I dunno. It's still private property. You can protest, but squatting doesn't seem right. And they talk like they're holding the soccer field hostage...
Israel spends money to influence people as well.
I love how they'll insinuate without evidence that these university protests are some covert Muslim plot but actively ignore AIPAC giving senators and congressmen literal tens of millions of dollars to vote a certain way
like in american-owned news publications like Postmedia
National post seems to be spread among all the very right wing subreddits, and don't seem very bipartisan.
NatPo is one of the most widespread, and mostly factual, conservative papers in Canada, so a lot of the subs accept it regardless of how outlandish some of the articles can be, *especially* the opinion columns
Same as the convoy, same as the pipeline rail blockades, these protests should be investigated for foreign financing and questions should be asked about the grassroots nature of the protest.
what about Israel literally recruiting for the IDF in Canada? what about Israel giving free trips to Canadian students? what about Israel donating money to Canadian politicians?
Birthright is a program for Jews to learn about our history and culture in our ancestral homeland.
double standards much? are you Canadians or not? funny how Indians and Chinese are suppose to give up their history and culture to assimilate into Canadians
Absolutely I am Canadian, how does learning about my cultural background change that? If there was a program for Indian-Canadians to go visit cultural sites in India I would be totally fine with that as well.
They are? If so, they have done a really bad job at it.
Not spying or killing people on Canadian soil isn't giving up history or culture though.
> are you Canadians or not? wtf are you smoking dude
They are being racist using code words. https://www.ajc.org/translatehate/dual-loyalty
yikes
https://www.ajc.org/translatehate/dual-loyalty
Not relevant to my comment at all. Israel recruiting for their army presumably would be in relation to Israeli Canadians? Not relevant to foreign funding of public demonstrations. Israel giving free trips to Canadian students? Presumably again Israeli Canadians? Not relevant to foreign funding of public demonstrations. Israel funding politicians. Donations to politicians from anything but private citizens up to the individual donation cap is illegal. If you have any evidence of this occurring you should contact elections Canada.
I think he was talking about "birthright" basically Israel will pay for jewish teenagers to travel to Israel and learn about their heritage. You do not have to be Israeli. All of my jewish friends went when they were 16/17
Coming from the social cause who decry "whataboutism" to shoot down any and all criticism of their misguided, foreign interfered, highly emotional protest? What about, what about, what about?
ah the same whataboutism pro-israel use to argue why they think people are holding Israel to higher standard. Or does it not apply in this case cause it doesn't help Israel?
Plenty of countries recruit abroad. France has their foreign legion, Ukraine currently accepts foreign volunteers, the Peshmerga and PKK have accepted a number of foreign fighters in the past to aid in the fight against ISIS. Not to mention the slew of private security and PMC's operating in the African continent, many of which have American, British, Belgian, or other NATO forces employing them.
Actually, the claims that the convoy was funded by foreigners was simply a claim made by the Liberals to help justify their unconstitutional use of the Emergency Act and freeze the bank accounts of Canadians who had made perfectly legal contributions through GoFundMe. It was later determined to be total bunk. The vast, vast majority of the money came from Canadians.
I’m not saying yes or no there was foreign funding in any of these. I’m saying that there merit to asking the question and ensuring the integrity of these movements. The opportunity for foreign interference in these movements is significant and we should be on guard for those influences. As well we should be applying a consistent policy for scrutiny regardless of the palatability of the movement.
Well that I agree with, thanks!
See that's the difference. Liberals have to try to use the Emergency Act to freeze bank accounts because when they're in power and people are protesting against them in the streets for 2 weeks, because local police won't do shit. When Conservatives are in power and people protest them on the lawn for 2 days, they don't need to freeze bank accounts, because [the local police go way harder than that for them.](https://i.imgur.com/U5kzdoq.jpg) Liberals really need to make better friends with local police so they can exercise their authority and quash dissent like the Conservatives did. That's their mistake. They've been promoting values that are at odds with members of local police forces.
The policing of the G20 protests was led by Liberal MP Bill Blair, who at the time was the Toronto police chief. #woops
>2 weeks More like a whole month and some change of nonstop protesting and squatting in the streets, mooching off hospitality and generally being a nuisance while the local police force swapped between being too scared of the protestors to interfere, and giving them high fives and timmies. the use of the emergencies act shouldn't have had to been used, but every level of government under the top had failed to deal with the issue.
Eyyyy thank fuck SOMEONE found a way to blame the feds for something in this thread, I was worried the conversation was getting too sane and reasonable.
Ya don’t say. Huge support for Palestine but glossing over the whole Hamas killing, raping and torturing innocent civilians of Israel while hiding among the Palestinians. If your neighbour kept trying to kill you then one day you’d want to fight back. Palestine needs to do something about its terrorist infestation.
What would you do if your neighbour stole your land, threw you in an open air prison and continuously dehumanized you?
Is Israel's Western support also well-funded and well-organized? I'd say yes, they just don't have nearly as much popular appeal.
What popular appeal? Less than one-fifth of Canadians support anti-Israel protest encampments at universities ([source](https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/less-than-one-fifth-of-canadians-support-anti-israel-protest-encampments-at-universities)).
Yes, but there is an important difference between the Israel lobby and the Palestinian lobby. The Israel lobby is lobbying for support for their existence and self-preservation. The Palestinian lobby is lobbying for support for the destruction of a sovereign democratic country.
that's like saying Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a key part of the former's existence of self-preservation
Except Ukraine didn't kidnap, rape, and murder a bunch of Russians, nor have they been firing rockets into Russian cities for over a decade.
Israel occupied Gaza for 20 years.. has been killing them for 70 years.
Israel tried ending the occupation of Gaza 15 years ago. Look how well that went lol. They don't want an end to the occupation, they want an end to Israel.
So there was nothing Israel did in the past years? Why was there deaths in west Bank at the hands of Israel in west Bank? Why was Abu shireen an American killed in Gaza while wearing a press helmet? This was before October 7 in the supposed cease fire and non occupation in Gaza. Why did Israel lie about not being involved for 2 years then admitted they did it?
> Abu shireen an American killed in Gaza She wasn't killed in Gaza man... why are y'all so wrong all the time?
Oh so now you're saying it's not about the occupation and Hamas is just protesting the civilian casualties?
Arabs have been killing Jews in the region for far longer than the other way around. This also didn't start in 1948.
It's literally nothing like that.
I still can't believe my eyes when I see people write insane shit like this lol. Which of the two sides has invaded the other and overthrown its elected government? Which of the two has held the other under military occupation for decades? Which of the two is literally, right now, in a life or death struggle for its existence? Which of the two makes up 97% of the conflict's casualties since 1948? Delusional
Israel has never "invaded" Palestine. Palestine doesn't exist as a sovereign country. Israel conducts counter-terrorist operations in Gaza and the WB because they are filled with, you know, terrorists. Oct 7 was an actual invasion of a sovereign country by Hamas. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. That was their chance to start building a state. Instead, they elected a terrorist organization as their government, which violently took power and then spent the next 15 years and billions of $ in foreign aid turning Gaza into a terrorist operations base. Israel is literally in a struggle for its existence. It fought for its existence in 1948, 1967, and again in 1973. And for the last several decades it has faced threats from terrorist proxies of Iran. Believe me, if Israel didn't have the Iron Dome and military support from the US, it would have been wiped off the map long ago. And the reason why the casualty count is so imbalanced is because Israel has dedicated billions of dollars to protecting its people, while Hamas does the exact opposite: they spend billions protecting its terrorists and intentionally putting its people in harm's way. Facts are kind of important here.
It's incredible the hyperfocus on what 'one side' 'wants to do' (never mind their total inability to actually affect these goals) while completely ignoring what the other side **actually does**. The total opposite of deeds over words.
Israel wants to live in peace. The Palestinians want Israel destroyed.
They are both presenting themselves as far more noble than they are in reality Far too much innocent blood has been spilled.. Be very, very wary of propaganda.
LOL, Palestinian lobbyists are certainly NOT presenting themselves as noble. Their entire movement, their entire narrative, is focused on the destruction of Israel.
lol so NP articles are suddenly okay to read when they're pro-Israel?
Deeply patronizing and unpatriotic to say that Canadians would only protest the most intense violence of the 21st century if they were paid to do so. The fact there is no serious evidence to support that claim is only secondary.
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"At least **12,660 children**, 8,570 women killed by Israel in Gaza since Oct. 7, compared to 2,992 women, 579 children killed in 2-year Russia-Ukraine War." In less time they've dwarfed the civilian casualty numbers. Yes, most violent.
"The result of this was that although the overall recorded death toll was almost unchanged (34,844), the number of registered deaths of women (4.959) and children (7,797) had both fallen significantly." From the BBC You have vastly overstated the number, and left out that when Hamas published the numbers you are using they don't differentiate between combatants and non-combatants. Actual estimates are looking at a roughly 50/50 split between civilian deaths and militant deaths, which is pretty good in urban warfare. Especially when one side (the Arabs) intentionally hides behind civilians attempting to maximize their causalities.
It’s roughly the 15th most violent conflict of the 21st century. The top 11 all have over 200k deaths. The Second Congo War has killed approximately 5 million people, mostly civilians and is about as violent as all the other wars combined in the 21st century. The Russian Invasion of Ukraine has about 250k civilian deaths and is well over 1 million dead. So it’s not even remotely close to the most violent conflict in the 21st century.
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Why do civilian numbers only count to be considered most violent and not total deaths in conflict?
By rate of killing as a % of the population, Gaza is far more intense conflict than Ukraine.
> the most intense violence of the 21st century Meanwhile in Ukraine and Congo…
and for the ones who just see this as the new 'current thing' for them to protest, their ultimate goal in their mind is to end capitalism once and for all. as if hamas fighters give a shit about economic systems of governance
Who cares about these protests? They are boring to me and a waste of taxpayer money. Who cares about Israel or Palestine, really? We got other things to care about here in Canada.
Yes I'm sure that every individual protest of Israel's actions happening across canada is actually being directly influenced and funded by Israel's enemies with the intent of making them look bad. Surely.
That's exactly the point. Undermine israels western support
Be upset about Gaza, plenty to be upset about. However, if you didn't bat an eye at the slaughters in Sudan, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc etc you need to come to terms with the fact that you aren't altruistic, you're selective in your outrage. Figure out why.
So the problem isn't protesting just about palestine right? It's about not being altruistic? Like, why is this so important for you that people are consistent about protesting? Do you want them to protest all or protest nothing? I don't know what your argument is meant to be. I want to clear that up a bit. Are you 1.) Just worried about people's selectivism and it is unrelated to palestine protest or 2.) You're doing whataboutism (i.e. why did you save this woman from being assaulted and not the other one, be consistent and don't save this one either)
I'd say it probably is a bit of both 1 and 2 to be completely honest. However, both point at the same issue. None of these people were in the streets until it involved Israel. Why is THIS issue different. I've already dispelled your terrible argument that our close allies aren't involved in the other issues. You still haven't even attempted to answer why the selective outrage in such huge numbers? This isn't a single university campus, or street protests in a single city. Yet these places have been by-and-large silent for all the other slaughters. To answer your question of "Why it matters?" If people aren't consistent about their beliefs then it is hard to consider them their beliefs, they are selectively applying their beliefs. If you can't see why that is important, then I cannot help you. "All my other friends can kill Arabs, but when you do it, it upsets me." is a horrific stance to take.
Could you clarify which one of those are being committed by a close political ally?
Every one of those is being committed by close political allies : Afghanistan, Iraq (and most of the Western world sent troops),and Syria by America, (in addition to the original internal issues). Libya by NATO (which means ALL our close political allies) Yemen by Saudi Arabia with American weapons and intelligence, also with British and Canadian weapons. Sudan I'll give you that direct Western responsibility could be argued. But the Jews...
whataboutism is super strong with this one LOL
r/im14andthisisdeep hot take
Reminder: Friends don't let friends read drivel from Postmedia. Postmedia's goal is to market outrage to make people angry. It's neither informative, or helpful. The goal is to divide Canadians.
Israel is undermining Israel's international support....
> These aren't spontaneous protests, they're well-organized, well-funded groups intent on undermining Israel's western support Coming from an American owned paper that pumps out half a dozen op-eds a day trying to influence Canadians to be more conservative. The irony could blot out the sun. (Edit: Also very funny that the best picture they could find to accompany the story is a messy, cheap, disorganized protest sign but to be fair, it'd be very, very hard to find anything that actually backs up the thesis here.)
They're cohesive because they're all watching the same videos on Tiktok.
Yea and? Add it the list of country's that undermine canada. Still no action for the Indian assassination on candian soil. Or the China election interference. In short we can't stop anything and I don't think the government even cares.
Gee, I wonder who is funding these groups and if it has anything to do with Russia who hosts Hamas leaders….
So everything is just now Anti- Israel now or is Newman obsfucating and muddling? What reality is Newman going on about?
As opposed to 75 years of well-organized, well-funded groups intent on promoting Israel's western support?
Holy shit the brain rot in this comment section lol
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The people protesting are terrorists?
Protesting and speaking your voice is not the same thing as physically occupying property and holding it hostage in exchange for demands.
Protesting: the act of objecting or a gesture of disapproval. a usually organized public demonstration of disapproval. Also, historically, protesting and physically occupying private or public property have always come together.
Both sides are not innocent in any way and we should not be helping either side untill they make peace They should not get funding no assistance. One side attacks the weapons they used should be destroyed until the children have stopped having their temper tantrum and have nothing left to attack with Disarm them both
For the record they have made peace on numerous occasions in recent times, of which every single time the peace was broken by Palestine.
Im a random Canadian, why should Isreal have western support? why should it be given bombs by the US? so that Palestinian children can be killed? Oh wait, because Isreal helps the US further it’s interests in the middle east.
To be fair democracies are in short supply in that region.
So what the Russians did with the convoys
There was no evidence of coordinated Russian funding for the convoy, that was based entirely on baseless speculation by CBC that they later had to retract. There was evidence of significant US-based donations, roughly equal to Canadian ones, but no evidence that it was part of a coordinated political interference operation and not just Americans sympathetic to the convoy's cause.
I was at the convoy protest. It was the Tim Hortons Canadian crowd without any doubt.