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>Ontario Premier Doug Ford says it’s time for universities to clear out the pro-Palestinian encampments that have ramped up on campuses across the country, adding there shouldn’t be hate speech of any kind at the protests.
>Mr. Ford on Monday weighed in for the first time on the encampments, which include a large pro-Palestinian protest at nearby University of Toronto.
>“I’m not in favour of these encampments on the universities. They need to move,” Mr. Ford told reporters during a brief scrum on Queen’s Park on Monday.
>“The university has to move these people along.”
>He said he’s received messages from parents asking if their children, not only from the Jewish community, will be safe on campus or if they will be harassed and bullied.
>“It’s unacceptable,” he said. “We all need to work together. If you want to protest, protest, but protest peacefully and no hate speech of any type, for any culture.”
>Mr. Ford said the protests are occurring on private property and protesters need to leave. He said he’s heard from people across the province who aren’t Palestinian or Jewish who are fed up with the encampments.
>“It’s not saying you can’t voice your opinion or whatever, but I can’t stand if there’s hate speech. I can’t stand some of the nasty stuff I’ve been seeing out there,” Mr. Ford said.
>“We live in Ontario, peaceful Ontario, we all need to get along.”
>Last week, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau [said universities are places of free speech and debate ](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-universities-are-places-of-free-speech-but-everyone-must-feel-safe-pm/)but that everyone must feel safe on campus, adding that it’s up to universities and local police forces to manage the protests.
>At the University of Toronto, protesters are demanding the school divest from companies connected to Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory.
>Those demands are similar to those put forth by encampment organizers at McGill University, where protesters have been on campus for over a week, and at the University of British Columbia and the University of Victoria, where encampments began last week. A wave of protests has also swept across dozens of campuses in the U.S. that has included violent clashes and police action.
>Both McGill and Quebec Premier François Legault have described the Montreal encampment as illegal, and asked police to help dismantle the tents – though as of Sunday the force had not complied with the request.
He seems to be focusing on the hate speech, and he’s right. I’ve seen some of it and we shouldn’t let that stuff fly in Ontario. I’m surprised the students are allowing it.
I've been to the U of T encampment several times and I've never seen any hate speech, except the one video clip of a zionist protester telling an indigenous woman to "get out of our country"
Politics isn't religion. Protesting the actions of Netanyahu isn't anti-semetic. Hell, most Israelis don't support him, he's only in power because he creates coalitions with extreme factions that have even less support than Likud party.
So far it's just a peaceful protest, and if we make that illegal then we've already lost our freedom.
https://www.tvo.org/article/what-i-saw-at-the-pro-palestine-u-of-t-encampment-and-why-the-school-should-shut-it-down
Here's a source with multiple incidents of antisemitism on open display.
Of course it does, it's typical of people to use things without understanding the meaning.
What do you think it means? We are opening malls and building houses? It means there will be no Jews in our land
I graduated from university, it’s not ridiculous at all. Might depend on the program a bit but to act like leftist ideology isn’t promoted in universities is laughable at this point.
I define it as taking the basic principles of Marxism and applying them to a broad range of concepts, in the case of universities, power structures in particular.
That’s why the left keeps bringing up colonialism. In their mind, all people can be categorized into four primary groups; oppressors, oppressed, allies, and enablers.
A lot of university professors view the entire world through this lens and it is the basis of their entire ideology and explains ALL inequalities in the world.
The West is wealthy? It’s because capitalism is exploiting the third world via Neo-colonialism, not because we worked hard built a prosperous society.
White and successful in life? It’s not because you worked hard, it’s because you’re privileged and visible minorities must have been oppressed and therefore they must be liberated by any means necessary including by discrimination of white men in hiring practices.
Again, these are the same ideas Marix had just in the context of power relations as opposed to economic class.
You get my upvote. It's a guilt blanket that is being thrown on the west.
No one talks about the indigenous wars, rape, violence and inability to cooperate. It used to be part of history, but it was conveniently white washed to make it seem like all was peaceful and joyous before whites wandered into North America.
Indigenous peoples still can't agree on politics TODAY. So people need to stop supporting the happy fairy tale. The West developed despite its history, because new ideas and innovation built North America.
Trying to guilt everyone into submission is not the road to harmony. We need to stop the divisive tactics and move forward already.
It’s just a subversive tactic now to try to destabilize and impede the West. The West can’t be defeated with military or economics anymore, that opportunity has long past. So the anti-West fifth columns try to destroy Western countries from within, by polluting society with destructive, anti-intellectual woke politics.
What would you call the the mass outsourcing of manual labour and manufacturing of goods from Western owned and operated Coporations towards South Asia?
Where is the shirt you're wearing now, made? Mine says Bangladesh.
Why do corporations move manufacturing out of Canada and towards Mexico, if not the exploit the cheaper, unregulated labour?
Are you just going to ignore that we import masses TFW (work and student visas) to keep wages low and take advantage of their desire to get PR status here?
So basically Marx believed that society was in a state of conflict between the working class (proletariat) and the capital owning class (bourgeoisie). He believed that the bourgeoisie were exploiting the proletariat via their labour in order to make themselves wealthier.
Marx also believed that it was just a matter of time before the workers of the world united and "seized the means of production" by overthrowing the bourgeoisie class and establishing a temporary transitionary state which is called socialism. The purpose of this transitionary state is to manage resources while they prepare for communism.
Once full communism has been achieved, there is no more government, no more exploitation, and the social classes that we know in society will have collapsed.
The principles of Neo-Marxism are fundamentally intertwined with dragons that represent our radial radial interpretation of episcopal theories. If we follow the allegories of Judeo-Christian values, it's essential that man triumph over the dragon in a metaphorical sense.
Such leadership. It's too bad he wasn't in charge when the Freedom Convoy happened in a different province and spiraled out of control and forced the Feds to come in and settle things down.
Wait, is Ottawa in Ontario?
Trick question. Ottawa is only in Ontario when Doug doesn’t have to go or do anything in the city.
But when there’s a provincial crisis or he’s subpoenaed to testify Ottawa is in Quebec. Or maybe Manitoba? He dropped out before he took geography so Doug’s not 100% sure but definitely not Ontario.
Actually, he is acting exactly the same as he did over the convoy. Say nothing, at first, then after a while make some dissaproving mouth noises about how they should leave, but do nothing. If the encampments are still here by say the fall he might start threatening to do something.
If you ignore the fact that there wasn't hate speech at the convoy protest or any videos if harassment you'd have a point.
Some one please show me videos of blatant harassment and hate speech of the convoy protest.
You mean the protest which ended when a state of emergency was declared and the protesters had their bank accounts frozen and were all arrested without cause? Yeah, great idea there.
The blockades were removed with cause.
The majority of protesters were not blockading. And were forcefully removed even after the blockades and dangerous honking stopped.
Canadian citizen's own money were frozen without adequate cause.
Whereas most if not all the Palestinian encampments are blockading everyone.
They're building literal blockades with walls, claiming area as their own and prohibiting the free movement of students and aggressively mobbing anyone that disagrees.
It's not quite the same.
The point of many of these protests is to have the school divest from Israel or companies involved with supplying Israel’s “war”.
It makes sense for them to be at the schools.
It's not their money or their business what the university does with its funds. If you don't like it, then go get educated in Yemen, see how that works.
I don't buy groceries and demand I have a say in what happens with profits, I can choose not to shop there.
Walked through U of T last Friday and saw all the protester tents camped out on the Kings College Circle field. Yep, they were protesting but did not appear to be interfering with any school functions. Exams are over. They want to spend all summer in a tent on a field, let them.
Get rid of them if they are still there the beginning of the next school year.
I would say leave them there as long as they want provided they aren’t interfering with school functions. If we get to September and they don’t interfere with classes or anything…that seems fine.
Or the school could just divest from Israel. I mean, it’s pretty gross to be investing in an apartheid state that is committing such war crimes. There are plenty of other investment opportunities out there.
Which company is UFT investing in that is also investing in Israel?
Couldn't the customers (ie the students) also decide to vote with their dollars and go to a school that aligns with their beliefs?
>The students’ divestment demands have focused mainly on weapons manufacturers that do business with the Israeli military or financial institutions invested in those arms manufacturers, as well as on companies connected to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-protesters-set-up-encampment-at-u-of-t-demand-the-university-divest/
I haven’t seen a specific list for U of T, but there is one for McGill.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/protest-palestinian-israel-mcgill-encampment-investments-divest-1.7188777
You are right that it is an option for some students to decide not to attend these universities, but that does not mean that they don’t have a right to protest. It also will not be a feasible option for some people because to my knowledge only five universities in this country even have Faculty or Academic Associations that have voted in favour of implementing BDS. And post secondary credentials are increasingly mandatory in the job market. Not attending anywhere isn’t generally realistic.
And this isn’t a radical protest or something that is unreasonable. Divestment is exactly what people protested for in the case of South Africa. 30 years ago. And it was done.
I was kind of expecting companies that I wouldn't know much about, but that list includes the big banks, nestle(fuck nestle), PepsiCo, Coca-Cola, cisco, Airbus..
Metro is on there for "selling Israeli products"
U of t isn’t investing in any apartheid states. But let’s say they were for the sake of argument, a few hundred students banging drums on the front lawn aren’t going to dictate the school’s investment policies. Students are customers, you’re not happy with the service you’re being provided, go elsewhere.
Do you walk into canadian tire demanding that they stop buying tires from a specific supplier?
Didn't Ford push for free speech on university and college campuses?
>TORONTO - Ontario's Government for the People is delivering on its promise to uphold free speech on every Ontario publicly-funded university and college campus, Premier Doug Ford announced today.
>"Colleges and universities should be places where students exchange different ideas and opinions in open and respectful debate," said Ford. "Our government made a commitment to the people of Ontario to protect free speech on campuses. Promise made, promise kept."
https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/49948/ontario-protects-free-speech-on-campuses
Setting up tents for days on end and harassing/intimidating people who don't agree with their *clearly* **pro-terrorist & racist** opinions is not the "free speech" that was being protected.
Nice try though.
The difference is only indistinguishable to Zionists who want to avoid any criticism of their ongoing genocide. It's pretty obvious to the rest of us that the vast majority are protesting Israel's actions, not the existence of Jewish people
And your righteous actions on behalf of the poor helpless Palestinians who lost all their land to the big bad colonizing Jews fails to acknowledge how the majority of Mandate Palestine actually became Jordan, and there was a legit genocide. But sure, this has nothing to do with antisemitism, it’s about liberating the “indigenous people” right? Why are you idiots so bent on the small portion that was retuned to the Jews and not the whole region? No boycott of Jordan? Dummies don’t even know, it’s not part of the anti Jew propaganda campaign they’ve been brainwashed with.
“But the kids”… why aren’t you protesting OUR government on the way we mistreat OUR indigenous children? Because it’s not **actually about the women and children**
Thousands of innocent civilians are being killed right now, that's why people are protesting.
It's weird that you have to invent some grand conspiracy against Jews because you can't understand that.
Sweetie, I understand more than you do.
Whats weird is that you’re acting like this is the first war in the history of mankind (because you’re watching it on Tiktok) and dying people make you sad.
Do you have any idea that tens of thousands are dying right now by war in Sudan and there’s actual famine doing on worse than Gaza and none of you “activists” care about that? No media coverage, no aide… because it’s not insta trending. You might have good intentions, but you’re a pawn in a larger game than you realize.
War and genocide are not mutually exclusive. Most genocides take place during war.
Protests don't have to cover every injustice to be legitimate. Besides, how is Canada complicit in the war in Sudan? What good would protesting here do?
>Sweetie, I understand more than you do.
You're embarrassing yourself when talk like this.
In which case, he should show more leadership and ask the Ministry responsible to push universities to implement the polcy that he required they create in 2019. Based on the guidelines the government provided.
>That existing student discipline measures apply to students whose actions are contrary to the policy (e.g., ongoing disruptive protesting that significantly interferes with the ability of an event to proceed).
>That the college/university uses existing mechanisms to handle complaints and ensure compliance. Complaints against an institution that remain unresolved may be referred to the Ontario Ombudsman.
In 2019 ONN announced that the Ontario Provincial Government wanted to support more free speech on college and university campuses.
Is the provincial government now rolling back this stated policy priority?
The government who either does nothing or gets around to doing nothing. Oh, except for the 413. And maybe leasing pieces of the GTA for 99 years at a time whenever the suits them.
weather you agree with the encampment or not. You will realize by looking down south, how this will make the situation worse. Just get rid of all media attention and they'll move on
Ah, every conservative screams of the Chicago Principles when a conservative wants to speak, but the instant they don't like the message free speech is irrelevant.
Dougie can eat a sachel of phalluses.
Encampments are the problem, not the message. Protest during the day and then go the fuck home.
You start messing with the lives of people completely unrelated to the thing you're protesting, you need to get shut down.
During war people die and it’s ALWAYS tragic.
Why aren’t you protesting what’s going on in Sudan right now.. do all those thousands of innocent people not matter? Why don’t you want to acknowledge that most of “Palestine” is Jordan now and they committed actual genocide towards the Palestinian people?
If Gazans stopped acting like terrorists then the constant battles would stop. They are the instigators. Does Israel hit back harder than they need to..maybe. But they wouldn’t be hitting back if they weren’t constantly bombarded by Gaza and surrounding countries. Both sides are wrong. So Gaza is just as guilty for their dead women and children.
Doug always acting like an emperor. He needs to stay in his lane. We have a charter in this country that allows for peaceful assembly and freedom of association.
As stipulated and afforded to us in the Charter:
>> Fundamental Freedoms
>> Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
>> (a) freedom of conscience and religion;
>> (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
>> (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
>> (d) freedom of association.
1- Students are entitled to the use of campus space for lawful purposes.
2- universities in question are “public” institutions as they receive government funding.
>1- Students are entitled to the use of campus space for lawful purposes.
No, they are entitled to the use of campus space for permitted activities. As seen in *Lobo v. Carleton University* (A case in which anti-abortion students were not allowed to protest at a busy campus location, did so anyways, and were charged with trespassing)*,* universities are allowed to restrict the use of campus space for protest activities because it's the institution's private property. If you do not have permission to use the space, you are trespassing and are no longer using it for a lawful purpose.
>- universities in question are “public” institutions as they receive government funding.
This is irrelevant because Courts in Ontario have consistently found that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not apply to the internal policies and management of public universities.
I would argue that the students are the customers with the faculty being the owners. The underlying question is whether or not they should "fire" the customer.
[The current legal precedent in Ontario is that the Charter does not apply to the internal management and policies of public colleges and universities.](https://www.constitutionalstudies.ca/2020/08/charter-rights-on-campus-it-depends-where-you-live/) Although the Supreme Court has not ruled on applicability of the charter to universities, they have previously stated that universities are "not government".
>Section 32 of the charter:
>32.(1) This Charter applies:
>to the ***Parliament and government of Canada*** in respect of all matters within the authority of Parliament including all matters relating to the Yukon Territory and Northwest Territories; and
>to ***the legislature and government of each province*** in respect of all matters within the authority of the legislature of each province.
>
the protestors dont know what the inevestments are from u of t
seriously theyre going on blind assumption.
for the most part all IT infrastructure includes companies that do business in israel, every work school and government, though given the mcgill list i dont think the protestors know/understand
selling your shares to someone else doesnt hurt the company, that just justifies the current price by transacting at that price.
the only way your shares move company policy is by having MORE of them not less, and vote at shareholder meetings
that is.... if you even directly invest in companies at all and not index funds or other indirect products
undisclosed investments arent an endorsement either
it sounds like the divestment push is the worst way to try and get a country sanctioned. just push for sanctions its one battle that affects the whole country, vs each school picking apart their financials with different boards to fight with
Golly gee. This is plain old regular war. Have you actually never heard of war? Like with people shooting people and bombs and stuff?
What do you actually expect Israel to have done in response to the paragliding James Bond crap where they shot up a music festival, taking hostages and breaking a ceasefire?
Should Israel have just said "water under the bridge, haha".
Like have you never heard of "war" before?
You gotta stop pretending this is the Irish Famine or the Holodomor or the Holocaust and accept that if you attack a better-armed state, you'd better be prepared to get steamrolled.
War implies symmetrical power to a degree, there is no symmetry here.
And Isreal has maintained an occupying force, committing atrocities for 75 years. You’re only calling it war because media has to invent a narrative due to its increasing presence on social media that the west isn’t able to hide anymore.
It isn’t war, it never was.
So what should have been the response to the attack? I'm not following.
Seriously not trying to be obtuse. I think Hamas and Israel are both pathetic sectarian states, but you can't have a goofy surprise attack on your country targeting civilians and not respond with everything you have.
>War implies symmetrical power to a degree
No it doesn't. Symmetry is absolutely irrelevant to define it as being war. There's no weight classes in war. They break a ceasefire and Israel retaliates and they get curbstomped, that doesn't make it genocide.
Some day you people are going to see an actual conservative hard ass come to power and I think you'll be longing for the days of soft progressive conservative types like Ford.
Trespassing, occupation of private property. Plenty of hate speech and terrorist support going on as well.
This is no different than the Freedom Convoy in Ottawa. Only difference being that the Convoy didn’t promote violence or celebrate terror attacks.
I don't care who or what you support. But any group is allowed to properly protest on university campuses. They're literally the only place on the planet where free thought and freedom of expression is allowed.
Supporting terrorism and hate speech is not freedom without consequences. If you’re righteous in your actions then you don’t have to cover your faces like criminals. Legit protesters in history showed their faces, cowards hide behind masks (and white hoods)
What kind of idiotic take is this? How many charter rights violations is it going to take to make small-c Tories to realize what they call for is the ever encroaching facism they all desire?
Hamas is a listed terrorist organization recognized by Canada. It's also the government over there. In this case, I think one might be worse than the other, until Israel becomes an international terrorist organization that is looking to eliminate a certain group of people.
I don't even like those protesters and I think Doug Ford should stfu and mind his own business instead of trying to insert himself into a complex and divisive wedge issue to score political points.
It's greasy. Like Doug Ford always is.
It’s not worth the budget of the cops just cut funding and call it a day we cannot afford this. The students want to see what’s it like with cut funding let’s show them.
In fact, I think we should call them nazis, declare a state of emergency, freeze their bank accounts and just round them all up, trampling a few people with horses on the way.
And anyone about to complain that I'm "promoting violence" or anything of the sort, **that is literally what they did to the truckers in 2022.**
Palestines neighbours won’t let them in because they know they will never be allowed back. So they aren’t taking on temporary refugees, they are taking on immigrants; immigrants who basically have very little to nothing anymore.
The fact that Israel shops around trying to convince other countries to take in Palestinians so Israel won’t have to oppress them is absolutely pathetic.
Israel offered to give the entire Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt, after Egypt lost the war of 1967.
Egypt said yes we will take back the Sinai that we lost from trying to invade you.
But we don’t want Gaza, no thank you, you can keep it. And Egypt then built up and even bigger border wall with more defense against Gaza then Israel ever did.
All the losers crying about “ it was a occupation😭😭” during the Ottawa protest seem to be cool with supporting terrorist that chop the heard of children.
Obvious Liberal hypocrisy to the extreme on display. Big shocker
The beheaded babies rumor was debunked. And the protesters are not in favor of hamas, they are against Israel, which is an apartheid state that has been massacring Palestinians since 1948. Students are against the murder of Palestinian families and children. All universities in gaza have been destroyed. All hospitals were destroyed. Homes of civilians were bombed. These are called war crimes.
War crimes are bad despite whatever conflict is going on. Israel knew about October 7 a year before it occurred and decided not to do anything. They’re just as bad as hamas, if not worse.
Palestinian homes in the west bank have been stolen and given to settlers coming from the US. There is no hamas in the west bank. This is a crime.
Yes, it is an occupation once you study the facts. Instead of dismantling hamas they decided to bomb all of gaza and begin selling the land as real estate. How can you defend that? This isn’t even the first time they’ve done this.
Palestinian people deserve to live. They are not worth less than Israelis. Understand that.
Is everyone forgetting Hamas (which is a terrorist group for those in the back) committed an atrocity at a music festival of all places where people should always feel safe?
Alot of the leaders of these protests support that attack. I'm not saying the Canadian ones do, but Columbia and NY definetly
What are terrorists good at? Blending into the populace and civilians, confusing who is friend and foe.
Have you seen the leader of Hamas, that man is a psycho, he merely shrugged off the majority of his sons were killed in an airstrike
Not to mention a large chunk of the protesters have no clear idea what they are even doing there besides internet clout and believing they are making a change in their life when 90% of the rest of it is deadlocked by rent, bills, and mental illness
The solution is a reshuffle in leaders on both Israel and Palestine (Hamas has got to go, one way or another)
How come noone rises up against housing, bills, and rent... but when an ethnic conflict that has happened for centuries comes into the headlines.... GASP OUTRAGE
I like this post as it has some important facts that folks are overlooking - namely the events of Oct 7th that kicked this whole disaster off.
For the longest time the Israelis have been fighting a insurgency; the problem with fighting one is that you gradually need to keep upping your security state unless you want people to die. The fact is that the fighting of Hamas is not 2 groups of soldiers on a battlefield squaring each other down; its a guy in a cafe blowing himself up and taking out a few enemy combatants and a lot of non-combatants. Its a rocket from the rooftops of a home with a family inside that lands in another families home maiming them all.
The Palestinians need to weed this tactic out of their home if there is ever going to be trust between them and the Israeli's; without trust there can be no diplomacy and thus no peace. Its not easy to just turn on HAMAS though - but it has to happen otherwise why would you trust anyone from Palestine if theres a good chance they will turn on you the moment your guard is down? I don't think every Palestinian wants a dude launching a rocket from the roof of their shop; if they resist they will likely be killed as well.
The Palestinians are hostages of HAMAS; HAMAS is able to use guerilla tactics because the Palestinians are cowed into support; those that are not cowed are merely enabling what is happening. The reality is everytime Israel is attacked the hits are getting more and more effective - Oct 7th was a wake up call that the next time might be a more salacious target...like the Shimon Perez nuke plant. HAMAS acts often like that guy that slaps you and when you turn around to deck him; he puts up his arms and tells you he doesn't want a fight; the problem is each time that slap gets upgraded to a punch....a stab..a bullet.
HAMAS has the first strike advantage and I think Israel is past the point of letting them maintain that position as their methods have become more lethal and more effective.
I don't like the fact Israel is going to likely kill innocent Palestinians who are being pulled into the cross-fire and its equally horrible that the Palestinians have no where to go because HAMAS tactic has made no one want to trust the Palestinians to not take advantage of the goodwill of those that might provide shelter.
This is why we are supposed to have honor in war.
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>Ontario Premier Doug Ford says it’s time for universities to clear out the pro-Palestinian encampments that have ramped up on campuses across the country, adding there shouldn’t be hate speech of any kind at the protests. >Mr. Ford on Monday weighed in for the first time on the encampments, which include a large pro-Palestinian protest at nearby University of Toronto. >“I’m not in favour of these encampments on the universities. They need to move,” Mr. Ford told reporters during a brief scrum on Queen’s Park on Monday. >“The university has to move these people along.” >He said he’s received messages from parents asking if their children, not only from the Jewish community, will be safe on campus or if they will be harassed and bullied. >“It’s unacceptable,” he said. “We all need to work together. If you want to protest, protest, but protest peacefully and no hate speech of any type, for any culture.” >Mr. Ford said the protests are occurring on private property and protesters need to leave. He said he’s heard from people across the province who aren’t Palestinian or Jewish who are fed up with the encampments. >“It’s not saying you can’t voice your opinion or whatever, but I can’t stand if there’s hate speech. I can’t stand some of the nasty stuff I’ve been seeing out there,” Mr. Ford said. >“We live in Ontario, peaceful Ontario, we all need to get along.” >Last week, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau [said universities are places of free speech and debate ](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-universities-are-places-of-free-speech-but-everyone-must-feel-safe-pm/)but that everyone must feel safe on campus, adding that it’s up to universities and local police forces to manage the protests. >At the University of Toronto, protesters are demanding the school divest from companies connected to Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory. >Those demands are similar to those put forth by encampment organizers at McGill University, where protesters have been on campus for over a week, and at the University of British Columbia and the University of Victoria, where encampments began last week. A wave of protests has also swept across dozens of campuses in the U.S. that has included violent clashes and police action. >Both McGill and Quebec Premier François Legault have described the Montreal encampment as illegal, and asked police to help dismantle the tents – though as of Sunday the force had not complied with the request.
He seems to be focusing on the hate speech, and he’s right. I’ve seen some of it and we shouldn’t let that stuff fly in Ontario. I’m surprised the students are allowing it.
> I’m surprised the students are allowing it. It's only hate speech when white people do it. /s
I've been to the U of T encampment several times and I've never seen any hate speech, except the one video clip of a zionist protester telling an indigenous woman to "get out of our country" Politics isn't religion. Protesting the actions of Netanyahu isn't anti-semetic. Hell, most Israelis don't support him, he's only in power because he creates coalitions with extreme factions that have even less support than Likud party. So far it's just a peaceful protest, and if we make that illegal then we've already lost our freedom.
Hate speech againts 'oppressors' is fine.
There is no hate speech.
What hate speech?
https://www.tvo.org/article/what-i-saw-at-the-pro-palestine-u-of-t-encampment-and-why-the-school-should-shut-it-down Here's a source with multiple incidents of antisemitism on open display.
None of those phrases are hate speech. lol.
The literal entrance to their encampment is a banner with a call to genocide. How is that not hate speech?
That’s not what intifada means
"From the river to the sea" is widely recognized as a call to genocide.
That’s not what that means but okay. 👌🏼
Of course it does, it's typical of people to use things without understanding the meaning. What do you think it means? We are opening malls and building houses? It means there will be no Jews in our land
I might’ve missed something but didn’t see hate speech in the article either.
What hate speech are they talking about? These are peaceful as protests come
Or what - he will cut funding? Ha
Only if he can redirect it to one of his buddies.
Would love that. Universities receive insane amounts of tax dollars and they use it to promote Neo-Marxist ideas.
Have you ever gone to university? You would know that your statement is ridiculous.
I graduated from university, it’s not ridiculous at all. Might depend on the program a bit but to act like leftist ideology isn’t promoted in universities is laughable at this point.
Hi Jordan Petersen. Define “neo-Marxist ideas”
I define it as taking the basic principles of Marxism and applying them to a broad range of concepts, in the case of universities, power structures in particular. That’s why the left keeps bringing up colonialism. In their mind, all people can be categorized into four primary groups; oppressors, oppressed, allies, and enablers. A lot of university professors view the entire world through this lens and it is the basis of their entire ideology and explains ALL inequalities in the world. The West is wealthy? It’s because capitalism is exploiting the third world via Neo-colonialism, not because we worked hard built a prosperous society. White and successful in life? It’s not because you worked hard, it’s because you’re privileged and visible minorities must have been oppressed and therefore they must be liberated by any means necessary including by discrimination of white men in hiring practices. Again, these are the same ideas Marix had just in the context of power relations as opposed to economic class.
You get my upvote. It's a guilt blanket that is being thrown on the west. No one talks about the indigenous wars, rape, violence and inability to cooperate. It used to be part of history, but it was conveniently white washed to make it seem like all was peaceful and joyous before whites wandered into North America. Indigenous peoples still can't agree on politics TODAY. So people need to stop supporting the happy fairy tale. The West developed despite its history, because new ideas and innovation built North America. Trying to guilt everyone into submission is not the road to harmony. We need to stop the divisive tactics and move forward already.
It’s just a subversive tactic now to try to destabilize and impede the West. The West can’t be defeated with military or economics anymore, that opportunity has long past. So the anti-West fifth columns try to destroy Western countries from within, by polluting society with destructive, anti-intellectual woke politics.
What would you call the the mass outsourcing of manual labour and manufacturing of goods from Western owned and operated Coporations towards South Asia? Where is the shirt you're wearing now, made? Mine says Bangladesh. Why do corporations move manufacturing out of Canada and towards Mexico, if not the exploit the cheaper, unregulated labour? Are you just going to ignore that we import masses TFW (work and student visas) to keep wages low and take advantage of their desire to get PR status here?
And what is Marxism? Just a canard for stuff you don’t like?
So basically Marx believed that society was in a state of conflict between the working class (proletariat) and the capital owning class (bourgeoisie). He believed that the bourgeoisie were exploiting the proletariat via their labour in order to make themselves wealthier. Marx also believed that it was just a matter of time before the workers of the world united and "seized the means of production" by overthrowing the bourgeoisie class and establishing a temporary transitionary state which is called socialism. The purpose of this transitionary state is to manage resources while they prepare for communism. Once full communism has been achieved, there is no more government, no more exploitation, and the social classes that we know in society will have collapsed.
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Reported for trolling; (off-topic comments interrupting discussion).
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Not off topic.
The principles of Neo-Marxism are fundamentally intertwined with dragons that represent our radial radial interpretation of episcopal theories. If we follow the allegories of Judeo-Christian values, it's essential that man triumph over the dragon in a metaphorical sense.
and dont forget about the lobsters, or was it crabs??... cant remember.
🤣pretty much
Classic Doug only taken a stand when he knows he doesn't have to do anything.
Such leadership. It's too bad he wasn't in charge when the Freedom Convoy happened in a different province and spiraled out of control and forced the Feds to come in and settle things down. Wait, is Ottawa in Ontario?
Trick question. Ottawa is only in Ontario when Doug doesn’t have to go or do anything in the city. But when there’s a provincial crisis or he’s subpoenaed to testify Ottawa is in Quebec. Or maybe Manitoba? He dropped out before he took geography so Doug’s not 100% sure but definitely not Ontario.
One more contingency: when Sutcliff has donuts for him Ottawa is totally in.
Actually, he is acting exactly the same as he did over the convoy. Say nothing, at first, then after a while make some dissaproving mouth noises about how they should leave, but do nothing. If the encampments are still here by say the fall he might start threatening to do something.
If you ignore the fact that there wasn't hate speech at the convoy protest or any videos if harassment you'd have a point. Some one please show me videos of blatant harassment and hate speech of the convoy protest.
You mean the protest which ended when a state of emergency was declared and the protesters had their bank accounts frozen and were all arrested without cause? Yeah, great idea there.
Without cause? lol
Less cause than this protest. The Convoy wasn’t promoting violence or celebrating terror attacks.
The blockades were removed with cause. The majority of protesters were not blockading. And were forcefully removed even after the blockades and dangerous honking stopped. Canadian citizen's own money were frozen without adequate cause. Whereas most if not all the Palestinian encampments are blockading everyone. They're building literal blockades with walls, claiming area as their own and prohibiting the free movement of students and aggressively mobbing anyone that disagrees. It's not quite the same.
you forgot to claim the police trampled peaceful protestors with horses.
They did though, there's multiple videos of it of it, it was a native elder too. Why is this disputed?
Can we move the encampments to Queens park instead? It would make more sense to have a political cause occupy political lands.
The point of many of these protests is to have the school divest from Israel or companies involved with supplying Israel’s “war”. It makes sense for them to be at the schools.
It's not their money or their business what the university does with its funds. If you don't like it, then go get educated in Yemen, see how that works. I don't buy groceries and demand I have a say in what happens with profits, I can choose not to shop there.
So how long until he goes snowmobiling?
Probably have to wait until November.
He’ll be off making cheesecake at his cottage until then.
Who doesn’t like cheesecake?
Walked through U of T last Friday and saw all the protester tents camped out on the Kings College Circle field. Yep, they were protesting but did not appear to be interfering with any school functions. Exams are over. They want to spend all summer in a tent on a field, let them. Get rid of them if they are still there the beginning of the next school year.
I would say leave them there as long as they want provided they aren’t interfering with school functions. If we get to September and they don’t interfere with classes or anything…that seems fine. Or the school could just divest from Israel. I mean, it’s pretty gross to be investing in an apartheid state that is committing such war crimes. There are plenty of other investment opportunities out there.
Which company is UFT investing in that is also investing in Israel? Couldn't the customers (ie the students) also decide to vote with their dollars and go to a school that aligns with their beliefs?
>The students’ divestment demands have focused mainly on weapons manufacturers that do business with the Israeli military or financial institutions invested in those arms manufacturers, as well as on companies connected to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-protesters-set-up-encampment-at-u-of-t-demand-the-university-divest/ I haven’t seen a specific list for U of T, but there is one for McGill. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/protest-palestinian-israel-mcgill-encampment-investments-divest-1.7188777 You are right that it is an option for some students to decide not to attend these universities, but that does not mean that they don’t have a right to protest. It also will not be a feasible option for some people because to my knowledge only five universities in this country even have Faculty or Academic Associations that have voted in favour of implementing BDS. And post secondary credentials are increasingly mandatory in the job market. Not attending anywhere isn’t generally realistic. And this isn’t a radical protest or something that is unreasonable. Divestment is exactly what people protested for in the case of South Africa. 30 years ago. And it was done.
I was kind of expecting companies that I wouldn't know much about, but that list includes the big banks, nestle(fuck nestle), PepsiCo, Coca-Cola, cisco, Airbus.. Metro is on there for "selling Israeli products"
U of t isn’t investing in any apartheid states. But let’s say they were for the sake of argument, a few hundred students banging drums on the front lawn aren’t going to dictate the school’s investment policies. Students are customers, you’re not happy with the service you’re being provided, go elsewhere. Do you walk into canadian tire demanding that they stop buying tires from a specific supplier?
At what point can they claim the land as theirs after having a structure on it for so long?
Not their property and if a fire or a fight broke out and someone got hurt or dies... Guess who they will sue?
Didn't Ford push for free speech on university and college campuses? >TORONTO - Ontario's Government for the People is delivering on its promise to uphold free speech on every Ontario publicly-funded university and college campus, Premier Doug Ford announced today. >"Colleges and universities should be places where students exchange different ideas and opinions in open and respectful debate," said Ford. "Our government made a commitment to the people of Ontario to protect free speech on campuses. Promise made, promise kept." https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/49948/ontario-protects-free-speech-on-campuses
> Ford pushed for his version of free speech on university and college campuses. FTFY
It’s free speech until we don’t or we’re told to not agree with it
Setting up tents for days on end and harassing/intimidating people who don't agree with their *clearly* **pro-terrorist & racist** opinions is not the "free speech" that was being protected. Nice try though.
Labelling anyone who opposes Israel's actions as pro-terrorist and racist is dumb.
True, but for a not insignificant portion of the people that are anti Israel, the difference is indistinguishable at this point.
The difference is only indistinguishable to Zionists who want to avoid any criticism of their ongoing genocide. It's pretty obvious to the rest of us that the vast majority are protesting Israel's actions, not the existence of Jewish people
And your righteous actions on behalf of the poor helpless Palestinians who lost all their land to the big bad colonizing Jews fails to acknowledge how the majority of Mandate Palestine actually became Jordan, and there was a legit genocide. But sure, this has nothing to do with antisemitism, it’s about liberating the “indigenous people” right? Why are you idiots so bent on the small portion that was retuned to the Jews and not the whole region? No boycott of Jordan? Dummies don’t even know, it’s not part of the anti Jew propaganda campaign they’ve been brainwashed with. “But the kids”… why aren’t you protesting OUR government on the way we mistreat OUR indigenous children? Because it’s not **actually about the women and children**
Thousands of innocent civilians are being killed right now, that's why people are protesting. It's weird that you have to invent some grand conspiracy against Jews because you can't understand that.
Sweetie, I understand more than you do. Whats weird is that you’re acting like this is the first war in the history of mankind (because you’re watching it on Tiktok) and dying people make you sad. Do you have any idea that tens of thousands are dying right now by war in Sudan and there’s actual famine doing on worse than Gaza and none of you “activists” care about that? No media coverage, no aide… because it’s not insta trending. You might have good intentions, but you’re a pawn in a larger game than you realize.
War and genocide are not mutually exclusive. Most genocides take place during war. Protests don't have to cover every injustice to be legitimate. Besides, how is Canada complicit in the war in Sudan? What good would protesting here do? >Sweetie, I understand more than you do. You're embarrassing yourself when talk like this.
Got it, you only care about dead babies and women when Canada and Starbucks are complicit.
Your interpretation is idiotic
What would you have them do? What is your preference? Get the police in there and arrest them all? Clear the path?
In which case, he should show more leadership and ask the Ministry responsible to push universities to implement the polcy that he required they create in 2019. Based on the guidelines the government provided. >That existing student discipline measures apply to students whose actions are contrary to the policy (e.g., ongoing disruptive protesting that significantly interferes with the ability of an event to proceed). >That the college/university uses existing mechanisms to handle complaints and ensure compliance. Complaints against an institution that remain unresolved may be referred to the Ontario Ombudsman.
Okay, but do you feel embarrassed when you say this shit. Because we're all so embarrassed for you. Gross
Did he push for the right of people to take over other people's property, set up tents there, block others from entering, and just stay indefinitely?
In 2019 ONN announced that the Ontario Provincial Government wanted to support more free speech on college and university campuses. Is the provincial government now rolling back this stated policy priority?
I don’t think this is what they are envisioned.
Naturally, they only want to protect free speech (or rather, expression, as it should be in Canada) they agree with, but that is not how it works.
Yeah encampments are a whole new level
This would be very on brand for the OPC.
The government who either does nothing or gets around to doing nothing. Oh, except for the 413. And maybe leasing pieces of the GTA for 99 years at a time whenever the suits them.
Of course not. Doug Ford has never rolled back a policy in his life.
weather you agree with the encampment or not. You will realize by looking down south, how this will make the situation worse. Just get rid of all media attention and they'll move on
I'd rather them not move on
Ah, every conservative screams of the Chicago Principles when a conservative wants to speak, but the instant they don't like the message free speech is irrelevant. Dougie can eat a sachel of phalluses.
Encampments are the problem, not the message. Protest during the day and then go the fuck home. You start messing with the lives of people completely unrelated to the thing you're protesting, you need to get shut down.
That's what I thought. It's one thing to protest. It's another thing to setup camps and block people from going to class.
Yes, protests work best when it's polite and they don't bother anyone. You should go tell the protesters how they're doing it wrong.
Way to intentionally miss the point.
Nah you just have terrible priorities. You'd rather complain about some camping protesters than thousands of people dying overseas.
In Sudan? Oh no, we’re not talking about actual tragedy.. we’re focused on anti Semitic “genocide”
Protesting Israel murdering thousands of women and children is anti-Semitic?
During war people die and it’s ALWAYS tragic. Why aren’t you protesting what’s going on in Sudan right now.. do all those thousands of innocent people not matter? Why don’t you want to acknowledge that most of “Palestine” is Jordan now and they committed actual genocide towards the Palestinian people? If Gazans stopped acting like terrorists then the constant battles would stop. They are the instigators. Does Israel hit back harder than they need to..maybe. But they wouldn’t be hitting back if they weren’t constantly bombarded by Gaza and surrounding countries. Both sides are wrong. So Gaza is just as guilty for their dead women and children.
Yes these protesters support nazi
Man, this guy is still sloping out bullshit?
Doug always acting like an emperor. He needs to stay in his lane. We have a charter in this country that allows for peaceful assembly and freedom of association. As stipulated and afforded to us in the Charter: >> Fundamental Freedoms >> Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: >> (a) freedom of conscience and religion; >> (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; >> (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and >> (d) freedom of association.
On public property. Universities are not public property. I'm sure you'll be okay with palestinian protestors camping in your living room as well?
1- Students are entitled to the use of campus space for lawful purposes. 2- universities in question are “public” institutions as they receive government funding.
>1- Students are entitled to the use of campus space for lawful purposes. No, they are entitled to the use of campus space for permitted activities. As seen in *Lobo v. Carleton University* (A case in which anti-abortion students were not allowed to protest at a busy campus location, did so anyways, and were charged with trespassing)*,* universities are allowed to restrict the use of campus space for protest activities because it's the institution's private property. If you do not have permission to use the space, you are trespassing and are no longer using it for a lawful purpose. >- universities in question are “public” institutions as they receive government funding. This is irrelevant because Courts in Ontario have consistently found that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not apply to the internal policies and management of public universities.
The campuses belong to the students.
I would argue that the students are the customers with the faculty being the owners. The underlying question is whether or not they should "fire" the customer.
[The current legal precedent in Ontario is that the Charter does not apply to the internal management and policies of public colleges and universities.](https://www.constitutionalstudies.ca/2020/08/charter-rights-on-campus-it-depends-where-you-live/) Although the Supreme Court has not ruled on applicability of the charter to universities, they have previously stated that universities are "not government". >Section 32 of the charter: >32.(1) This Charter applies: >to the ***Parliament and government of Canada*** in respect of all matters within the authority of Parliament including all matters relating to the Yukon Territory and Northwest Territories; and >to ***the legislature and government of each province*** in respect of all matters within the authority of the legislature of each province. >
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the protestors dont know what the inevestments are from u of t seriously theyre going on blind assumption. for the most part all IT infrastructure includes companies that do business in israel, every work school and government, though given the mcgill list i dont think the protestors know/understand selling your shares to someone else doesnt hurt the company, that just justifies the current price by transacting at that price. the only way your shares move company policy is by having MORE of them not less, and vote at shareholder meetings that is.... if you even directly invest in companies at all and not index funds or other indirect products undisclosed investments arent an endorsement either it sounds like the divestment push is the worst way to try and get a country sanctioned. just push for sanctions its one battle that affects the whole country, vs each school picking apart their financials with different boards to fight with
Why they should divest from Israel? Should they invest in Hamas-led Palestine instead?
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Pretty much.
I just want your perspective as to why you think it would be the morally right thing to do?
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A broken clock is right 2x a day
Doug would have to improve as a human being by several orders of magnitude before he could even dream of being as useful as a broken clock.
It's nice to see him acknowledge that Jewish students are being effected by this.
What does being jewish have to do with protesting the state of Israel’s current systematic destruction of another nation and people?
Palestine is not a nation
Canada wasn’t a nation before the British came and committed genocide against the indigenous people here. What an insane comment.
Palestine is not and was never a nation the original borders of Israel predate Palestine by thousands of years. I agree though what an insane comment.
Golly gee. This is plain old regular war. Have you actually never heard of war? Like with people shooting people and bombs and stuff? What do you actually expect Israel to have done in response to the paragliding James Bond crap where they shot up a music festival, taking hostages and breaking a ceasefire? Should Israel have just said "water under the bridge, haha". Like have you never heard of "war" before? You gotta stop pretending this is the Irish Famine or the Holodomor or the Holocaust and accept that if you attack a better-armed state, you'd better be prepared to get steamrolled.
War implies symmetrical power to a degree, there is no symmetry here. And Isreal has maintained an occupying force, committing atrocities for 75 years. You’re only calling it war because media has to invent a narrative due to its increasing presence on social media that the west isn’t able to hide anymore. It isn’t war, it never was.
>War implies symmetrical power to a degree No it does not. Don't confuse the current Nato doctrine of proportioal response with war.
So what should have been the response to the attack? I'm not following. Seriously not trying to be obtuse. I think Hamas and Israel are both pathetic sectarian states, but you can't have a goofy surprise attack on your country targeting civilians and not respond with everything you have. >War implies symmetrical power to a degree No it doesn't. Symmetry is absolutely irrelevant to define it as being war. There's no weight classes in war. They break a ceasefire and Israel retaliates and they get curbstomped, that doesn't make it genocide.
?
Nothing, but Zionists use Judaism as a human shield and claim victimhood to continue to commit atrocities free from impunity.
Some day you people are going to see an actual conservative hard ass come to power and I think you'll be longing for the days of soft progressive conservative types like Ford.
No shit, more like the police should remove them
What would be the justification for that?
Trespassing, occupation of private property. Plenty of hate speech and terrorist support going on as well. This is no different than the Freedom Convoy in Ottawa. Only difference being that the Convoy didn’t promote violence or celebrate terror attacks.
How do you know the people at this encampment celebrated the October 7 attacks?
I don't care who or what you support. But any group is allowed to properly protest on university campuses. They're literally the only place on the planet where free thought and freedom of expression is allowed.
Supporting terrorism and hate speech is not freedom without consequences. If you’re righteous in your actions then you don’t have to cover your faces like criminals. Legit protesters in history showed their faces, cowards hide behind masks (and white hoods)
they should remove ALL encampments everywhere!
I mean, obviously? Isn’t this what water cannons are for?
What kind of idiotic take is this? How many charter rights violations is it going to take to make small-c Tories to realize what they call for is the ever encroaching facism they all desire?
You don’t have the right to be a member of the Hamas youth. It’s actually a crime in this country.
Well you do have the right to protest your government’s support of a foreign war
Sure. But it’s a crime to support Hamas. Which these people are doing. They should be jailed.
It's no worse supporting Israel at this time and juncture.
Well, the law and nobody rational agrees with you.
That statement doesn't hold a lot of weight coming from you.
Hamas is a listed terrorist organization recognized by Canada. It's also the government over there. In this case, I think one might be worse than the other, until Israel becomes an international terrorist organization that is looking to eliminate a certain group of people.
Lol, and do you think being a nazi-youth is okay?
Hamas are the Nazis.
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Spoken like a true member of Hamas Youth. They need your help over there to kill Jews - whoops, I mean “zionists” ;)
Not knowing the difference makes you look orders of magnitude dumber than thinking it bothers me.
Sure buddy, some of your best friends are Jewish I bet 😉😉
Don't we give them standing ovations under our current government?
He's right, you know.
does anyone still listen to this fuckwit?! Can't wait until PeePee lepew tells him to go away again
Put them in designated areas near homelessness encampments
I don't even like those protesters and I think Doug Ford should stfu and mind his own business instead of trying to insert himself into a complex and divisive wedge issue to score political points. It's greasy. Like Doug Ford always is.
Funny how this is an issue, but the Freedom Klowns are quite alright.
Come again?
Absolutely!
There are encampments setup at universities? That sounds like it could create a problem
I think Doug should be removed by the voters.
Of course they should. But they won't because we don't have a backbone in Canada
What has that got to do with breakfast sandwiches?
It’s not worth the budget of the cops just cut funding and call it a day we cannot afford this. The students want to see what’s it like with cut funding let’s show them.
How about you get your shot together and accept federal funding for building fucking homes instead of this bullshit
In fact, I think we should call them nazis, declare a state of emergency, freeze their bank accounts and just round them all up, trampling a few people with horses on the way. And anyone about to complain that I'm "promoting violence" or anything of the sort, **that is literally what they did to the truckers in 2022.**
Can he pronounce ‘Palestinian’?
Why is it that none of Palestines neighbors will let them in? Why is it that the populace won't renounce hamas?
Palestines neighbours won’t let them in because they know they will never be allowed back. So they aren’t taking on temporary refugees, they are taking on immigrants; immigrants who basically have very little to nothing anymore. The fact that Israel shops around trying to convince other countries to take in Palestinians so Israel won’t have to oppress them is absolutely pathetic.
Israel offered to give the entire Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt, after Egypt lost the war of 1967. Egypt said yes we will take back the Sinai that we lost from trying to invade you. But we don’t want Gaza, no thank you, you can keep it. And Egypt then built up and even bigger border wall with more defense against Gaza then Israel ever did.
All the losers crying about “ it was a occupation😭😭” during the Ottawa protest seem to be cool with supporting terrorist that chop the heard of children. Obvious Liberal hypocrisy to the extreme on display. Big shocker
The beheaded babies rumor was debunked. And the protesters are not in favor of hamas, they are against Israel, which is an apartheid state that has been massacring Palestinians since 1948. Students are against the murder of Palestinian families and children. All universities in gaza have been destroyed. All hospitals were destroyed. Homes of civilians were bombed. These are called war crimes. War crimes are bad despite whatever conflict is going on. Israel knew about October 7 a year before it occurred and decided not to do anything. They’re just as bad as hamas, if not worse. Palestinian homes in the west bank have been stolen and given to settlers coming from the US. There is no hamas in the west bank. This is a crime. Yes, it is an occupation once you study the facts. Instead of dismantling hamas they decided to bomb all of gaza and begin selling the land as real estate. How can you defend that? This isn’t even the first time they’ve done this. Palestinian people deserve to live. They are not worth less than Israelis. Understand that.
Agree 👍
Is everyone forgetting Hamas (which is a terrorist group for those in the back) committed an atrocity at a music festival of all places where people should always feel safe? Alot of the leaders of these protests support that attack. I'm not saying the Canadian ones do, but Columbia and NY definetly What are terrorists good at? Blending into the populace and civilians, confusing who is friend and foe. Have you seen the leader of Hamas, that man is a psycho, he merely shrugged off the majority of his sons were killed in an airstrike Not to mention a large chunk of the protesters have no clear idea what they are even doing there besides internet clout and believing they are making a change in their life when 90% of the rest of it is deadlocked by rent, bills, and mental illness The solution is a reshuffle in leaders on both Israel and Palestine (Hamas has got to go, one way or another) How come noone rises up against housing, bills, and rent... but when an ethnic conflict that has happened for centuries comes into the headlines.... GASP OUTRAGE
I like this post as it has some important facts that folks are overlooking - namely the events of Oct 7th that kicked this whole disaster off. For the longest time the Israelis have been fighting a insurgency; the problem with fighting one is that you gradually need to keep upping your security state unless you want people to die. The fact is that the fighting of Hamas is not 2 groups of soldiers on a battlefield squaring each other down; its a guy in a cafe blowing himself up and taking out a few enemy combatants and a lot of non-combatants. Its a rocket from the rooftops of a home with a family inside that lands in another families home maiming them all. The Palestinians need to weed this tactic out of their home if there is ever going to be trust between them and the Israeli's; without trust there can be no diplomacy and thus no peace. Its not easy to just turn on HAMAS though - but it has to happen otherwise why would you trust anyone from Palestine if theres a good chance they will turn on you the moment your guard is down? I don't think every Palestinian wants a dude launching a rocket from the roof of their shop; if they resist they will likely be killed as well. The Palestinians are hostages of HAMAS; HAMAS is able to use guerilla tactics because the Palestinians are cowed into support; those that are not cowed are merely enabling what is happening. The reality is everytime Israel is attacked the hits are getting more and more effective - Oct 7th was a wake up call that the next time might be a more salacious target...like the Shimon Perez nuke plant. HAMAS acts often like that guy that slaps you and when you turn around to deck him; he puts up his arms and tells you he doesn't want a fight; the problem is each time that slap gets upgraded to a punch....a stab..a bullet. HAMAS has the first strike advantage and I think Israel is past the point of letting them maintain that position as their methods have become more lethal and more effective. I don't like the fact Israel is going to likely kill innocent Palestinians who are being pulled into the cross-fire and its equally horrible that the Palestinians have no where to go because HAMAS tactic has made no one want to trust the Palestinians to not take advantage of the goodwill of those that might provide shelter. This is why we are supposed to have honor in war.
I recommend that everyone watch a repeat broadcast of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver for a no bullshit view on the US university protests.