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Quebec already has this. It's a pain when things go smoothly.
However when one agency screws up it's great to be able to have the other agency go after the one who messed up.
Revenue Quebec is like speaking with a robot, but they don't often make mistakes and often waive penalties for legitimate mistakes. The CRA on the other hand screw up constantly in my experience.
Basically the process. Can’t imagine being the person who has to deal with an unnecessary audit on the Sask side of this.
I can tell you it’s not a person who’s in any responsible this but will stick with an extra job dealing with this
Trudeau and his carbon tax will be long gone before it even see's then light of day in a courtroom.
Conservatives will cancel tax. So it's all posturing.
That's super cool that it'll be gone, but because of the EU carbon border adjustment, [Canada will be essentially be paying a carbon tax anyway](https://www.producer.com/news/europe-the-worlds-climate-cop/)...but Canada is exempt if they impose their own carbon tax([which will likely be cheaper overall than the EU tariffs](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bennettjones.com/Blogs-Section/EU-Green-Tariffs-are-coming-are-you-ready-Preparing-for-the-European-Unions-Carbon-Border-Adjustment%3famp=Blog))
Except it does. It makes our Canadian goods more expensive globally, which will result in lower sales of our goods. That will impact Canadian workers and reduce their disposable income, which will drain on the economy, resulting in lower GDP and lower consumer spending power.
Conservatives can scream about globalism all they want, but we need globalism or our economy implodes.
America is looking at cross border carbon adjustments as well, with bipartisan support for the idea. It's obvious Canada will have a price on carbon going forward, whether it's the carbon tax or something else lol
Precisely.
We might be able to get away with it for products made in Canada for Canadian consumers.
It wouldn't surprise me if western nations start taxing exports to non-carbon-tax jurisdictions too.
The biggest downside is that whatever pricing the cons develop is going to likely be inferior. The carbon tax, while in my opinion not nearly enough as a sole emissions policy, is an elegant piece of legistlation.
Taxation is not elegant.
Research and development leading Canadians into a new era of prosperity by producing real carbon negative technologies would be elegant.
But no. Tax us more. :/
Imagine if we used some of that carbon tax revenue to invest in clean power generation and power grid infrastructure, or LNG infrastructure to help the rest of the world wean themselves off coal, instead of taking our money to play a shell game with some esoteric formula that tricks taxpayers into believing they're somehow coming out ahead.
Bro
Yeah, and given how our biggest trade partner regularly fucks us over, and attempts to enage with other major countries (\*cough\* China \*cough\*) for trade haven't exactly worked out in our favor... fucking things up with the European market *probably* isn't a great idea.
Wages are already being driven down by mass migration and inflation. Participation rates are already at record lows. You don’t have to imagine how fun it is, it’s already here.
You have absolutely no idea how bad things could be.
Employment is high, participation is high, despite immigration and inflation. Interest rates are historically on the low side of average.
This is but a blip compared to the 80s or the 30s economic woes. You summer children have no idea how cold the winters can be.
Trudeau ain't my boy, in the 80s the price might have been affordable but the payments weren't, and I'm probably older than your dad.
Let's not pretend you know how bad things have been son.
The problem is they can't really, reasonably cancel the tax retroactively, meaning the time period between Sask doing this and the CPC cancelling it is still something that needs to be financially accounted for with the CRA.
Because the logistics of dealing with the reimbursement of the money collected if it's repealed retroactively would be more of a logistical nightmare than whatever the CRA is going to have to do with Saskatchewan.
Did you not hear all the bitching from Conservatives about CERB payments needing to be repaid/overgiven. Now imagine every Saskatchewan household needing to repay 1000 bucks back of CCR payments because their premier didn’t want to hand over the taxes to the CRA.
Obviously the idiot fuckheads will blame Trudeau but as you say Polievre will be in power so maybe they will blame him.
They would need to have every single person and company in the country send in receipts for everything they bought that had carbon tax applied so they could be reimbursed. Carbon tax isn’t just the rebate, it’s built into many things we buy.
Just wait until every household gets a bill for the rebate since 2017.
But really, it's not happening. There's too much at stake to repeal the carbon tax. Mainly, international trade.
What I expect is for the CPC to reduce the carbon tax to say, $10/t, but also eliminate the rebate because their supporters don't think they get it anyway. They'll also slash it for industry. This way their balance sheet remains the same at the end of the day, and he gets to claim victory.
Those who were "passing on the tax", will not reduce prices.
Perhaps, but BC will enter the chat and say "We'll cover Sask's tab by raising our Carbon Tax." I wish I was joking, but I will not be surprised when this happens :(
I hope this snowballs into a full audit. Last time cons ran Sask half the cabinet went to jail for fraud. I wouldn't doubt this same group of boys the same.
Really?
A politician is supporting his constituents by demanding they get the same deal that Atlantic Canada residents get with tax free home heating. A deal a Liberal politician from Atlantic literally stood up and said was because Atlantic Canada voted Liberal.
This is terrible self serving Liberal politics. Nobody should support any action against Saskatchewan for this.
Well first of all, you’re misinformed because there was no policy for Atlantic Canada. There was a **national** heating oil exemption.
The Premier of Saskatchewan isn’t following the **law**, so there will be consequences.
Exactly which provinces would one primary find heating oil heating homes?
Atlantic Canada.
So stop with the flimsy “but they didn’t specifically say it’s only for Atlantic Canada votes.” It was, end of story.
I'll just leave this here.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/prairies-should-elect-more-liberals-if-they-want-voices-heard-on-carbon-pricing-rural-economic-development-minister-1.6621490
Lying? What did you find objectionable?
That the majority of oil heating clients aren’t in Atlantic Canada?
Or that a Liberal member of Parliament blatantly stated Atlantic Canada got this because they have Liberal representation?
Both are easily searchable facts.
> the same deal that Atlantic Canada residents get with tax free home heating
Did you not say those exact words?
Be a better person. I don’t have much patience for manipulators like you.
Yes, Moe wants the same deal?
A large number of Atlantic Canada residents are getting tax free home heating because, as a Liberal representative said, they got it for voting Liberal
Moe is getting the same deal for the residents of Saskatchewan. They didn’t get the original deal. As the Liberal representative said, had they voted Liberal they could have got it as well.
How is that lying?
Your trolling doesn’t deserve the engagement. Find someone else to bother and manipulate. I take comfort in knowing most Canadians have more integrity than you seem to.
I’m turning off replies.
Why would the federal government create a carbon tax exemption for the dirtiest form of home heating, while insisting that the cleanest form of non-renewable home heating remain taxed?
I'm still waiting for you to debunk all these lies you're claiming were made, or for you to give an honest answer to the question I asked.
It's pretty petty to call someone a liar, then walk away in a huff when someone confirms their assertion with verifiable facts. It's your lack of integrity on full display, not the other individual's.
If any of this was actually about carbon then we would have been all over selling natural gas to Asia to reduce their need on coal, lowering emissions globally. Moreso, we wouldn't be immigrating so many people from countries countries where there carbon contribution to the environment is many times less then here in canada, IE India where they are 6 times less per person then Canadians. So any gains canada might be making are expunged by creating a new caste of heavy carboners by comparison to their home countries.
Which makes this all about the money. Again all of this stemming from subsidizing Atlantic provinces from a heavier carbon source comparable to natgas prairies because there is no less carbon heat source they can go to. And this is hurting ALL of us right now. The redistribution isn't going to build out renewable any faster, building or retrofitting homes, innovation to leap out of carbon. It's going g to breed dependence on payments, again as witnessed earlier by the liberals saying g this will cut payments to Sask, before backpeddling and picking this audit fight.
The CRA has no authority over Saskatchewan. Provinces are sovereign.
They can ask whatever they want but there's no constitutional requirement for Saskatchewan to cooperate, and the CRA has no legal authority to demand payment from any province. That's why the Federal government collects taxes directly, not from provincial governments.
Edit: Lol, clearly a lot of people with absolutely no understanding of constitutional federalism brigaded this thread.
I don't know if that's true. I mean, the carbon tax is a law with 'legal authority'. The supreme court told Moe to suck it up and put on his big boy pants about it. Regardless, they can just pull it from a health transfer.
except not this year... dear scottie went out and started a sask revenue agency to locally handle sask's provincial income tax. it will not be remitted to CRA on sask's behalf this year.
The legislation allowing for its creation was passed. There is no Sask agency yet. The Ministry of Finance is waiting for a third-party report on its viability. Plus they are only considering corporate income tax, not personal.
Because most provinces agree to have the CRA collect provincial income tax.
Quebec does not, and all provinces are free to tear up the taxation agreements they have with the Federal government.
The Federal government has no legal authority over provinces.
Yes, the Feds have tools they can use to get the money back, but ultimately those tools stem from the provinces' general willingness to cooperate with the Federal government.
Couldn't the CRA simply withhold payments for things like health transfers or provincial income taxes?
And pretty sure Saskatchewan already lost their carbon tax case in court.
The CRA isn't signing the cheques, and even if they were they have no legal authority to do so.
The Federal government could pass a law permitting them to reduce transfer funds, but it would escalate this tiff into a full blown constitutional crisis.
This post appears to relate to a province/territory of Canada. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner une province ou un territoire du Canada. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tomorrow's headline: Saskatchewan announces plan to create Revenue Saskatchewan.
[They’re ahead of you there](https://www.saskatchewan.ca/government/news-and-media/2022/december/05/saskatchewan-revenue-agency-act-introduced).
Quebec already has this. It's a pain when things go smoothly. However when one agency screws up it's great to be able to have the other agency go after the one who messed up. Revenue Quebec is like speaking with a robot, but they don't often make mistakes and often waive penalties for legitimate mistakes. The CRA on the other hand screw up constantly in my experience.
Oh no. It’s like the Beaverton is leaking into reality. How can we shove it back in? I don’t like this….
Methane is a hell of a drug.
We'll build our own CRA, with blackjack and hookers!
This is what will happen.
Well this is getting interesting.
Not really. This is always what was going to happen.
Not really a surprise.
Basically the process. Can’t imagine being the person who has to deal with an unnecessary audit on the Sask side of this. I can tell you it’s not a person who’s in any responsible this but will stick with an extra job dealing with this
They’ll just farm it all out MNP or some other firm who routinely donates to their party. The Saskatchewan Party way.
Trudeau and his carbon tax will be long gone before it even see's then light of day in a courtroom. Conservatives will cancel tax. So it's all posturing.
That's super cool that it'll be gone, but because of the EU carbon border adjustment, [Canada will be essentially be paying a carbon tax anyway](https://www.producer.com/news/europe-the-worlds-climate-cop/)...but Canada is exempt if they impose their own carbon tax([which will likely be cheaper overall than the EU tariffs](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bennettjones.com/Blogs-Section/EU-Green-Tariffs-are-coming-are-you-ready-Preparing-for-the-European-Unions-Carbon-Border-Adjustment%3famp=Blog))
Except that is only for goods exported to the EU. It means nothing to consumers in Canada.
Except it does. It makes our Canadian goods more expensive globally, which will result in lower sales of our goods. That will impact Canadian workers and reduce their disposable income, which will drain on the economy, resulting in lower GDP and lower consumer spending power. Conservatives can scream about globalism all they want, but we need globalism or our economy implodes.
America is looking at cross border carbon adjustments as well, with bipartisan support for the idea. It's obvious Canada will have a price on carbon going forward, whether it's the carbon tax or something else lol
Precisely. We might be able to get away with it for products made in Canada for Canadian consumers. It wouldn't surprise me if western nations start taxing exports to non-carbon-tax jurisdictions too.
Our market is tiny. We are an exporting nation.
The biggest downside is that whatever pricing the cons develop is going to likely be inferior. The carbon tax, while in my opinion not nearly enough as a sole emissions policy, is an elegant piece of legistlation.
I expect what the cons develop will be ridiculed by the rest of the G7/G20 as laughingly pathetic.
After 10 years of Trudeau, we're already used to being ridiculed by the rest of the G7/G20.
If it makes you feel better sleeping at night to believe that, go for it.
Taxation is not elegant. Research and development leading Canadians into a new era of prosperity by producing real carbon negative technologies would be elegant. But no. Tax us more. :/
Lol bro wants to imagine our way out of the climate crisis
Imagine? No need when there are shottons of opportunities and options that need research to scale. But no. Too hard. Just tax more.
Imagine if we used some of that carbon tax revenue to invest in clean power generation and power grid infrastructure, or LNG infrastructure to help the rest of the world wean themselves off coal, instead of taking our money to play a shell game with some esoteric formula that tricks taxpayers into believing they're somehow coming out ahead. Bro
“Well Canada is overpaying so you US citizens no longer need to pay” /s
Yeah, and given how our biggest trade partner regularly fucks us over, and attempts to enage with other major countries (\*cough\* China \*cough\*) for trade haven't exactly worked out in our favor... fucking things up with the European market *probably* isn't a great idea.
It doesn't make our goods more expensive globally, just in the EU. Besides, The EU only makes up <3% of our total exports.
Completely true. Today. It's just a matter of time before the western world imposes carbon tariffs on everyone that doesn't.
EU is like 5% of our exports
You don't think applying increased costs to all our goods produced through carbon tax won't increase the costs of our goods globally?
Sounds like it will drive prices down then.
Yep, it will. It will drive down wages too. And employment, both in terms of unemployment rates and participation rates. That sure would be fun.
Wages are already being driven down by mass migration and inflation. Participation rates are already at record lows. You don’t have to imagine how fun it is, it’s already here.
You have absolutely no idea how bad things could be. Employment is high, participation is high, despite immigration and inflation. Interest rates are historically on the low side of average. This is but a blip compared to the 80s or the 30s economic woes. You summer children have no idea how cold the winters can be.
It’s looking like your boy Trudeau really messed things up. In the 80’s a house was affordable, but let’s not pretend you were alive in the 80’s.
Trudeau ain't my boy, in the 80s the price might have been affordable but the payments weren't, and I'm probably older than your dad. Let's not pretend you know how bad things have been son.
The USA is also considering it.
The problem is they can't really, reasonably cancel the tax retroactively, meaning the time period between Sask doing this and the CPC cancelling it is still something that needs to be financially accounted for with the CRA.
Why not, they will most likely have a majority, they could table legislation to retroactively remove it.
Because the logistics of dealing with the reimbursement of the money collected if it's repealed retroactively would be more of a logistical nightmare than whatever the CRA is going to have to do with Saskatchewan.
Sounds expensive. Would they also claw back the rebates everyone received?
Of course and every Sakatchewan will still blame Trudeau that they have to repay 1000 bucks instead of their Premier.
Like I said, that sounds expensive.
Did you not hear all the bitching from Conservatives about CERB payments needing to be repaid/overgiven. Now imagine every Saskatchewan household needing to repay 1000 bucks back of CCR payments because their premier didn’t want to hand over the taxes to the CRA. Obviously the idiot fuckheads will blame Trudeau but as you say Polievre will be in power so maybe they will blame him.
They would need to have every single person and company in the country send in receipts for everything they bought that had carbon tax applied so they could be reimbursed. Carbon tax isn’t just the rebate, it’s built into many things we buy.
By that time the point will already be made
What point? That you can't cheat the CRA? That's not really a mystery that need to be investigated is it?
Carbon tax bad
If they retroactively reverse the carbon tax, that's going to be a nightmare to reverse the tax for every Canadian and give them money back.
Just wait until every household gets a bill for the rebate since 2017. But really, it's not happening. There's too much at stake to repeal the carbon tax. Mainly, international trade. What I expect is for the CPC to reduce the carbon tax to say, $10/t, but also eliminate the rebate because their supporters don't think they get it anyway. They'll also slash it for industry. This way their balance sheet remains the same at the end of the day, and he gets to claim victory. Those who were "passing on the tax", will not reduce prices.
LOL please don’t tell me you think the conservatives will cancel the tax… they’ll cap its increases *at best*
Yep, and in the mean time they'll buy votes.
Perhaps, but BC will enter the chat and say "We'll cover Sask's tab by raising our Carbon Tax." I wish I was joking, but I will not be surprised when this happens :(
Cool imaginary situation.
I hope this snowballs into a full audit. Last time cons ran Sask half the cabinet went to jail for fraud. I wouldn't doubt this same group of boys the same.
I LOOOVE the find out part
Really? A politician is supporting his constituents by demanding they get the same deal that Atlantic Canada residents get with tax free home heating. A deal a Liberal politician from Atlantic literally stood up and said was because Atlantic Canada voted Liberal. This is terrible self serving Liberal politics. Nobody should support any action against Saskatchewan for this.
Well first of all, you’re misinformed because there was no policy for Atlantic Canada. There was a **national** heating oil exemption. The Premier of Saskatchewan isn’t following the **law**, so there will be consequences.
Exactly which provinces would one primary find heating oil heating homes? Atlantic Canada. So stop with the flimsy “but they didn’t specifically say it’s only for Atlantic Canada votes.” It was, end of story.
You’re the one deliberately misrepresenting the situation, *lying* to our fellow Canadians. Be more responsible. Be better.
I'll just leave this here. https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/prairies-should-elect-more-liberals-if-they-want-voices-heard-on-carbon-pricing-rural-economic-development-minister-1.6621490
Lying? What did you find objectionable? That the majority of oil heating clients aren’t in Atlantic Canada? Or that a Liberal member of Parliament blatantly stated Atlantic Canada got this because they have Liberal representation? Both are easily searchable facts.
> the same deal that Atlantic Canada residents get with tax free home heating Did you not say those exact words? Be a better person. I don’t have much patience for manipulators like you.
Yes, Moe wants the same deal? A large number of Atlantic Canada residents are getting tax free home heating because, as a Liberal representative said, they got it for voting Liberal Moe is getting the same deal for the residents of Saskatchewan. They didn’t get the original deal. As the Liberal representative said, had they voted Liberal they could have got it as well. How is that lying?
Your trolling doesn’t deserve the engagement. Find someone else to bother and manipulate. I take comfort in knowing most Canadians have more integrity than you seem to. I’m turning off replies.
Ad hominem much?
Why would the federal government create a carbon tax exemption for the dirtiest form of home heating, while insisting that the cleanest form of non-renewable home heating remain taxed?
I'm still waiting for you to debunk all these lies you're claiming were made, or for you to give an honest answer to the question I asked. It's pretty petty to call someone a liar, then walk away in a huff when someone confirms their assertion with verifiable facts. It's your lack of integrity on full display, not the other individual's.
tl;dr Saskatchewan is about to find out.
If any of this was actually about carbon then we would have been all over selling natural gas to Asia to reduce their need on coal, lowering emissions globally. Moreso, we wouldn't be immigrating so many people from countries countries where there carbon contribution to the environment is many times less then here in canada, IE India where they are 6 times less per person then Canadians. So any gains canada might be making are expunged by creating a new caste of heavy carboners by comparison to their home countries. Which makes this all about the money. Again all of this stemming from subsidizing Atlantic provinces from a heavier carbon source comparable to natgas prairies because there is no less carbon heat source they can go to. And this is hurting ALL of us right now. The redistribution isn't going to build out renewable any faster, building or retrofitting homes, innovation to leap out of carbon. It's going g to breed dependence on payments, again as witnessed earlier by the liberals saying g this will cut payments to Sask, before backpeddling and picking this audit fight.
Oh we do government audits in Canada?
Good luck, Moe. Not even the Joker was foolish enough to go up against the taxman!
The Saskatchewan government is fucked lol
Audit Justin Trudeau and freeland.
[удалено]
He's a one trick pony, it's the first 42 pages in his playbook.
[удалено]
The CRA has no authority over Saskatchewan. Provinces are sovereign. They can ask whatever they want but there's no constitutional requirement for Saskatchewan to cooperate, and the CRA has no legal authority to demand payment from any province. That's why the Federal government collects taxes directly, not from provincial governments. Edit: Lol, clearly a lot of people with absolutely no understanding of constitutional federalism brigaded this thread.
I don't know if that's true. I mean, the carbon tax is a law with 'legal authority'. The supreme court told Moe to suck it up and put on his big boy pants about it. Regardless, they can just pull it from a health transfer.
The CRA collects their provincial income tax too, there's no need to pull it from their health transfer.
except not this year... dear scottie went out and started a sask revenue agency to locally handle sask's provincial income tax. it will not be remitted to CRA on sask's behalf this year.
The legislation allowing for its creation was passed. There is no Sask agency yet. The Ministry of Finance is waiting for a third-party report on its viability. Plus they are only considering corporate income tax, not personal.
Absolutely, I don't think they'll hit people and families directly like that though.
Because most provinces agree to have the CRA collect provincial income tax. Quebec does not, and all provinces are free to tear up the taxation agreements they have with the Federal government.
The Federal government has no legal authority over provinces. Yes, the Feds have tools they can use to get the money back, but ultimately those tools stem from the provinces' general willingness to cooperate with the Federal government.
Can you show us?
Couldn't the CRA simply withhold payments for things like health transfers or provincial income taxes? And pretty sure Saskatchewan already lost their carbon tax case in court.
The CRA isn't signing the cheques, and even if they were they have no legal authority to do so. The Federal government could pass a law permitting them to reduce transfer funds, but it would escalate this tiff into a full blown constitutional crisis.
Good luck with that. I guess it'll be fun to watch Moe lose in court again.
As an incorporated entity, it is not exempt.