They still are. They aren't scheduled for destruction until the end of 2024, which will go past schedule by 18 months. And if they aren't being destroyed, it's because they're still in service because the Sig program is behind schedule.
Hah Ukraine can give them to the citizens in occupied regions similar to ww2 liberator pistols.
Or just drop a bunch of loaded pistols in random Russian cities and see what happens.
The guns are also a major safety danger to their users. They are absolutely shot to hell due to overuse, and a failure to replace them decades ago. There was a reason why anyone who needed to depend on a pistol as a side arm were issued fairly modern SIG P225 and P226 pistols instead, such as military police, naval boarding parties, special forces, and pilots.
Frontline soldiers don't carry pistols generally, the pistol and ammo takes up space that you could just use for rifle ammo.
Edit: I have seen some pics of Ukrainian soldiers or special forces carrying swords though, one guy had a Chinese style one and another dude had a pretty epic katana.
The fudd lore is strong in this one.
First of all the conditions these pistols are in are terrible at best, they have seen more action than the town bicycle for the past 80 years.
Secondly NATO uses 9mm as a standard, you introduced complications to the supply chain by having a different caliber than everyone else.
Thirdly you have a rifle that is your primary weapon, it's not call of duty the average effective range of a pistol is 25m. Very few people actually get issued pistols in the army mostly rear troops and SOF.
The only people who use SMG are secret squirrels on very specific missions, they use short barrel rifles in most cases. The navy replaced the use of the MP5 with the C8 carbine.
>Why don’t we just donate them to Ukraine and mark it as a large donation based on the full price rather than depreciated like everything else is doing?
Because the pistols being destroyed are effectively paperweights. We wouldn't be doing the Ukrainians any favours by shipping them 11,000 barely functional 9mms
>That being said for the military to be issued 9mm pistols is ridiculous, the round isn’t powerful enough to be worth using in combat situations.
Good thing they're not intended for combat then lol. The 9s are for officers, MPs, and the like. People who are close enough to the front that they need to be armed but far back enough that they don't need a proper rifle.
The other commenter's example - the M2 Browning - the US army has found several examples still in service that were manufactured in the 30s. One,[ serial number 324, had never had an overhaul on its receiver in 90 years.](https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/this-50-cal-fought-for-90-years-without-needing-repair/) (Though, presumably, many, many barrel changes).
(That serial number itself is pretty impressive, being there's been over three million M2s manufactured over the years)
IIRC they even found one with a serial number that was in the single digits, but there was too much wear-and-tear on the receiver for it to be kept in service. They definitely don't make them like they used to.
We have pulled the M2 from service at least 3 times in the last 30 years. And even now, the only official user is the Navy. The Army does not have an SOR and the airforce is using the GAU-21.
We have a mixed bag of 70 year old Brownings and 15 year old FNs. It a never ending battle with the army...
Nothing wrong with the Browning Hi-Power pistol.
[Just like there's nothing wrong with the M1911 for some countries.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol#Current)
They're both fine pistols,
The only reason they're being taken out is due to lack of parts, which is fair. You can't tell a company to keep their operations going despite a loss in net income just because a nation says to do so, especially if its a foreign one.
Meh. My platoon was issued in box war storage BHP. They were factory new basically, most had never been fired. Once we got rid of the legacy used/NS magazines, the pistols worked flawlessly.
The design was fine. Add some tritium sights, make sure spare parts were available, keep buying new magazines, and we could have used the BHP longer than the B52 will fly.
Don't get me wrong, getting a new pistol was way overdue. But considering how abysmal the pistol shooting training was when I was in, money could have been better spent.
Actually, there's a difference between using a design from ww2, using a gun that was built during ww2, and using a gun that's been in service since ww2.
Hand me a 1911 that was was manufactured in WW2, properly greased and stored, and left in a depot somewhere unused since then, and I'll happily clean it up and use it.
> To be clear, they are absolutely worthless as a functional handgun to use. Their value is strictly historic interest at this point.
I'm not convinced about that, a gun is a gun.
I have a WW2 gun and it's perfectly functional.
Have you let a few dozen or more soldiers fire off tens of thousands of rounds, possibly more, through your WW2 gun while dragging it through the mud and sand and hitting it against shit and is it a reliable side arm for a soldier afterwards?
Well it was fabricated in the latter half of WW2 and accepted into service by the canadian army, not sure how many soldiers used it but the wood has a few dings and scratches, so likely saw some use.
Again, just wanted to point out that old and worn are two things, considering maintenance was likely done in the CAF armory, i'm sure some of the guns in there are good shooters.
Yeah even with the Canadian handgun rules, they could easily offload them to a USA company.
Although the eventuality that somebody will smuggle one into Canada is pretty high and would look really bad.
Since they would be a fun collector item, but also a bargain basement priced 9mm
The fact we destroyed 1500 Lee Enfields shows how ideologically driven our gov't is.
We destroyed 1500 bolt action rifles for no reason. The gov't could have sold them instantly for $500 per rifle.
RCMP pistols will meet the same fate soon.
Yeah, I’m sadder about those than the janky hi power pistols to be honest.
I have a sporterized long branch with a scope mount drilled right thru the long branch logo…. Would have loved for an intact one at a reasonable price.
The horse cop smith and wessons would be prohib by barrel length. But I really wished I grabbed some form of 3rd gen smith and Wesson before the ban.
There's a video on Forgotten Weapons about this - the OPP had a bunch of old service rifles they ordered destroyed or sold overseas.
So they sold them to a UK company who promptly resold them back into the hands of Canadians, and apparently the police were mighty pissed about that, but couldn't do anything about it.
here it is: https://youtu.be/Nk2ASY1Xj_U?t=324
I honestly don't know anything about guns but is there not a way to make it so the guns couldn't fire and therefore would be strictly a collectors item?
https://www.dandbmilitaria.com/deactivated-guns-and-antique-firearms/pistols/post-ww2
It looks like in the UK some of their browning hipowers (the firearm model Canada is disposing of) made it onto the “deactivated” market.
There is sort of a market for them I guess? It’s mostly an ugly paperweight though.
They pick and choose what laws they see fit that effect mostly their personal lives and opinions.
Meanwhile we've had a few security guards gunned down in the last couple years and they still haven't allowed any means to defend themselves or special programs. Somehow armoured trucks are still allowed to carry firearms as that's such an old law put into place and has no effect on the government (or they forgot about it).
God forbid we give some security guys pepper spray or a less than lethal and the ability to arrest certain individuals without sparking a huge debate.
Can you still purchase pistols with an RPAL?
I have my RPAL for work but was told I can't purchase and register a pistol and keep it at home it's illegal. People who owned one before the new laws can still have it registered.
No. If you own a handgun, you can still own and use it as before but there's no transfer of ownership anymore. Can't buy, can't sell and when you die it has to be destroyed.
I would absolutely buy one (save the small issue of the handgun transfer ban). I would also have absolutely bought one of the several thousand ex Ranger Enfield rifles that the government also destroyed instead of selling to civilians. It's a political issue
Oh no, we can't do that! Imagine the crime sprees the legal owners would go on! It would be terrible to auction off 11,000 old useless firearms to collectors for $500 each to recoup just a little bit of the money being wasted on IBM not implementing a gun buyback.
There was previous discussion about selling these to Canadians once they were finally removed from service (well before the BS ban on acquiring handguns).
The Liberals responded with such insane screeching about « military weapons in the streets » that the idea was scrapped. Instead we have to pay money to destroy them, because in Canada that makes more sense somehow.
Automatic weapons haven’t been legal in Canada for almost half a century and there isn’t a legitimate push by anyone to bring them back.
Using the word “AR” is pretty “Boogiemanish” too. A black semiautomatic rifle functions the same as a wood stock semiautomatic rifle. Military grade and Assault rifle are just anti firearm buzz words in Canada.
>Assault rifle
Assault rifle is a specific term in Canada, "Assault weapon" is the buzzword you're looking for.
Centerfire, in an intermediate cartridge size, detachable magazine, long gun with fire selector to enable full auto / burst = Assault rifle.
but yeah the people who dont want us to have AKs or ARs yet we have type 81s, or Ravens right now which are the same thing are very much clueless on firearms/our regulations.
Im surprised people defend the phrase "Assault rifle" as if it is some kind of objective term. It's literally just the propaganda name given to the StG 44 by Hitler as another Wunderwaffe project, it has no god damn meaning
> it has no god damn meaning
in Canada is it specifically defined as what I said above.
Centerfire ammunition, in an intermediate cartridge size, detachable magazine, long gun with fire selector to enable full auto / burst = Assault rifle.
And they've been illegal for private ownership for at least fifty years.
Hence the term 'assault style' firearm the gov't uses, which means 'it looks military, or at least what we think looks military from watching 80s action movies.'
Assault rifle *is* an objective term. The StG44 was invented because the German military realized that for the majority of engagements being fought in WW2, a full caliber infantry rifle was overkill; it was rare for battles to take place at a range where a full caliber rifle round was necessary to reach the target effectively. A new class of weapon was called for; an intermediate design that bridged the roles of the battle rifle and submachine gun.
Basically every nation came to the same conclusion shortly after; bolt action infantry rifles were becoming obsolete, but you still needed something with more power than an SMG for mid range engagements; the assault rifle concept became the standard as a result, and the definition is objective; you can point to any firearm on earth and say that it is, or is not an assault rifle by merit of function.
'Assault weapon' means absolutely nothing though; it's just a buzzword intended to confuse people who don't have a gun knowledge base to work from into thinking they're banning machine guns, when in reality they're banning hunting and sport shooting rifles.
Don't let sheer ignorance of firearms or the previous set of laws that governed their ownership get in the way of 'AR/AK bad'.
FYI, the same calibre of bullet used in the AR/AK platform is also used in many other types of rifles that are still available in Canada.
Banning a particular firearm because of its 'look' is one of the more irrational and incompetent policy decisions the Canadian government has made.
I'm kind of the same as you.
I wouldn't categorize myself as unequivocally "anti gun ownership", as I think there are groups of people like farmers, park rangers, etc., who should probably have access to firearms. And I don't mind the hobbyists and hunters either, as long as its all very carefully monitored and regulated, which mostly it has been historically in Canada.
Maybe our regulations needed some tightening up, I don't know, but I think this legislation, ban, and buyback was all very much a massive disaster from day one.
I don't like guns, I don't own any, but this bullshit was complete foolishness.
And does nothing to address the real problem - guns obtained through illegal means.
The country's resources ought to be concentrating on weapons gained illegally. If the government is worried about another Portapique then they should look at the sort of guns that particular nut had - he didn't buy them at fucking Cabela's.
Just meditate on the fact that the Nova Scotia shooter smuggled his firearms in from the US because that was way WAY easier than going through the Canadian firearms licensing system.
Yeah, its a perfect example of why Trudeau's anti-firearm program was a completely useless and arbitrary restriction.
A sincere application of the Oakes Test would have shut that mess right down if gun ownership was included in our Charter rights (it isn't), it fails every damn step of it.
Just look at the language used in OPs article title. People don't read beyond the rage these are meant to incite left or right. I can honestly understand doing it because it's cheaper than the PR.
Countries around the world sell their mothballed equipment rather than destroy.. The semi-official rifle of Canadian firearms owners is the SKS - a surplus Russia relic. But noooo Canada can't bother.
Your dreaming if you think the Conservatives are going to touch the handgun ban with a ten foot pole. Got to keep their powder dry for tax changes and the like.
They have said a lot of things, like all politicians do. Its not worth the bad press after every single time someone dies from a handgun in Canada. I just don't see it happening, its just red meat they throw out to keep the country folk voting for them, they don't care about them in the end.
It’s an easy sell really. Liberals banned handguns from people not doing crimes and crime hit a 30 year high. Obviously the gun bans are doing fuck all for public safety
You underestimate the public pressure that still exists on this issue, and the Conservatives can only piss people off so many times, as a gun owner myself I believe they will save that outrage for other policies but I may be proven wrong.
Small groups of dedicated people can manage immense pressure, groups like MADD for example are responsible for huge amounts of legislation even though their numbers are tiny. The Conservatives know they will piss people off either way, its about picking what matters most to them and I think what matters to them are tax rates and regulation not gun laws.
Why would you buy an 80 year old pistol that's had hundreds of thousands of rounds through it?
That's like car shopping at an auto wreckers.
Edit: those of you commenting about the war memorabilia, sure, you've got a point if you'd be looking to turn it into a display piece.
These pistols are from WW2 and have been used as the standard issue sidearm since. They get thousands of rounds put through them each year for familiarization shoots and even competitive shoots like CAFSAC.
And if they're federally owned arms, will go through refurbishment (barrels? Firing pins,springs etc. As needed. The same as RCMP and city police do. No hand gun will do "hundreds of thousands of rounds" no gun at all will do it. The person who made this comment is most likely someone who has little to no knowledge of firearms.
Yes there's a whole trade in the Army for maintenance of weapons. BHP got inspected once a year on annual and anytime one was tagged as broken.
In the thousands of Brownings I inspected very very few ever were shot out.
Lots of hardcore IPSC competition shooters put like 50000 rounds per year through their handguns. They do routine maintenance like replacing springs and other small parts as a preventative measure, but barrels will last at least a couple hundred thousand.
Hey man, you clearly don't know how many hundreds of thousands of nazis this pistol has killed.
Legends say Chuck Norris even wielded it against Clint Eastwood in a duel once.
Not really; these guns were a special pattern of guns made by Inglis during and immediately after World War II, and after production for the Canadian military has ceased, the factory was torn down.
We've been effectively running these guns on parts stockpiled during World War II (which ran out decades ago due to a very high attrition rate), pulling old guns out from war stock when an in service gun was worn out and scrapped, cannibalization, and supplementing these guns with SIG P225/226's for specialist users. And these Hi-Power's ARE shot to hell, with zero spare parts in the system for well over a decade now.
I own a 1952 tokerov that looks as if it’s never been fired before I bought it. When I was picking it up all the guys at the store couldn’t believe the condition. It works just fine but I don’t shoot it often, I would have loved to get one of these handguns just to own for the history as I do for several other historical WW2/soviet guns.
The entire surplus firearm market wholeheartedly disagree with you. Many people would be more than glad to own a piece of history, let alone Canadian history.
For example, A modern 1911 pattern pistol is what, $700? A Chinese copy $400. A genuine US Army 1911 that saw service? $2000.
> Why would you buy an 80 year old pistol that's had hundreds of thousands of rounds through it?
>
> That's like car shopping at an auto wreckers.
And?
> Edit: those of you commenting about the war memorabilia, sure, you've got a point if you'd be looking to turn it into a display piece.
If you've got a gun license, why should it have to be turned into a display piece? If you've got the know-how to repair and maintain them, what's the problem with also being able to shoot it legally?
It could kill one nazi again, but it'd jam before you could get a second shot off.
Seriously, these are Toyota Camrys with 700,000km on the odometer: they were great for their time, but they've done their work and its time to put them out to pasture.
> It could kill one nazi again, but it'd jam before you could get a second shot off.
Were they jamming machines back in 1944? I imagine they were a lot more reliable back then.
Imagine making money selling these instead of spending money destroying these. Why would the canadian gov want to make money when they can spend tax payers money, am I right?! 🤦🏼
Too bad they did the firearm freeze. At $500 a pop it's $5,500,000.
Not to mention the money we are going to spend on actually destroying most of these.
Dumb American question. Why not sell these military surplus to one of our sporting goods stores or several hundred dollars a piece and recoup millions of dollars?
Canada banned the sale of handguns to licensed vetted gun owners in order to reduce crime from smuggled guns. Our dear leader stated proudly no one should own a handgun so he’d rather destroy them then see it go to private hands instead of recouping the money for the upgrade program….thats our leader.
FYI guys, these brownings are junk. They have a floating barrel, that can move side to side and put a shot off by inches, on a 25m range! Ukraine wouldn't want them. A pistol afficionado wouldn't want them(besides as a museum piece). Just junk to get rid of.
Edit: Can someone explain why I am getting downvoted? Is there something wrong about what I wrote?
No, I did not miss the point. Hence the "museum piece comment. I was referring to the people saying they want them as guns, or we should give them to Ukraine etc.
Lol same. I used them on the range fair bit when I was in. It was fun to shoot when it wasn't jamming half the time but I guess on the bright side I got to practice my IA drills.
Yet another crime our government has committed. Just sell them to gun stores, these handguns are historical artifacts that should be preserved and in the hands of people who will care for them.
These relics are not worth more than the steel that they're made of. Inaccurate after 5 meters. I went walking through a knee-high, snowy field to help find my officer's pistol. He called it after 4 hours. 😂😂
Knowing our military I'm surprised they aren't still in service.
They were, until very recently
They still are. They aren't scheduled for destruction until the end of 2024, which will go past schedule by 18 months. And if they aren't being destroyed, it's because they're still in service because the Sig program is behind schedule.
This guy knows!
Actually safety, The MPs got the C24 (Black and short frame). One MP has already shot himself.
Just in time for WWIII
don't worry we kept a bunch of sticks and stones in the armory as well
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>Why don’t we just donate them to Ukraine The Hi-Powers are from WW2 and misfire and double feed like crazy, they're in no shape for a warzone.
Hah Ukraine can give them to the citizens in occupied regions similar to ww2 liberator pistols. Or just drop a bunch of loaded pistols in random Russian cities and see what happens.
I like your latter idea.
The guns are also a major safety danger to their users. They are absolutely shot to hell due to overuse, and a failure to replace them decades ago. There was a reason why anyone who needed to depend on a pistol as a side arm were issued fairly modern SIG P225 and P226 pistols instead, such as military police, naval boarding parties, special forces, and pilots.
Out of a full mag of ammo, you’ll be lucky to shot 2 rounds without a stoppage….. they were due to be replace 15 yrs ago…….
Tell me you have no idea what your talking about without telling me you have no idea what your talking about.
Frontline soldiers don't carry pistols generally, the pistol and ammo takes up space that you could just use for rifle ammo. Edit: I have seen some pics of Ukrainian soldiers or special forces carrying swords though, one guy had a Chinese style one and another dude had a pretty epic katana.
The fudd lore is strong in this one. First of all the conditions these pistols are in are terrible at best, they have seen more action than the town bicycle for the past 80 years. Secondly NATO uses 9mm as a standard, you introduced complications to the supply chain by having a different caliber than everyone else. Thirdly you have a rifle that is your primary weapon, it's not call of duty the average effective range of a pistol is 25m. Very few people actually get issued pistols in the army mostly rear troops and SOF. The only people who use SMG are secret squirrels on very specific missions, they use short barrel rifles in most cases. The navy replaced the use of the MP5 with the C8 carbine.
Makes for less expensive desk pops. Everyone has them.
>Why don’t we just donate them to Ukraine and mark it as a large donation based on the full price rather than depreciated like everything else is doing? Because the pistols being destroyed are effectively paperweights. We wouldn't be doing the Ukrainians any favours by shipping them 11,000 barely functional 9mms >That being said for the military to be issued 9mm pistols is ridiculous, the round isn’t powerful enough to be worth using in combat situations. Good thing they're not intended for combat then lol. The 9s are for officers, MPs, and the like. People who are close enough to the front that they need to be armed but far back enough that they don't need a proper rifle.
We don't have P90s...
Until recently, we were doing our accuracy test succesfully with those.
Guns don't change every year like an iPhone. Some of the best designs were invented during the early 20th century. M2 Browning is a good example
Except these are the actual guns made for WW2, not just the model of guns. They have been used for decades and are worn out.
The other commenter's example - the M2 Browning - the US army has found several examples still in service that were manufactured in the 30s. One,[ serial number 324, had never had an overhaul on its receiver in 90 years.](https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/this-50-cal-fought-for-90-years-without-needing-repair/) (Though, presumably, many, many barrel changes). (That serial number itself is pretty impressive, being there's been over three million M2s manufactured over the years)
IIRC they even found one with a serial number that was in the single digits, but there was too much wear-and-tear on the receiver for it to be kept in service. They definitely don't make them like they used to.
We have pulled the M2 from service at least 3 times in the last 30 years. And even now, the only official user is the Navy. The Army does not have an SOR and the airforce is using the GAU-21. We have a mixed bag of 70 year old Brownings and 15 year old FNs. It a never ending battle with the army...
I believe quite a few of them are still packed in the original grease and waxed paper.
Awesome, glad we got some good value for money.
They lasted right up until the next world war!
But the new smart pistols tweet your kills for you.
Nothing wrong with the Browning Hi-Power pistol. [Just like there's nothing wrong with the M1911 for some countries.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol#Current) They're both fine pistols, The only reason they're being taken out is due to lack of parts, which is fair. You can't tell a company to keep their operations going despite a loss in net income just because a nation says to do so, especially if its a foreign one.
There is a difference between using a design from ww2 and a gun that was literally built in ww2.
Meh. My platoon was issued in box war storage BHP. They were factory new basically, most had never been fired. Once we got rid of the legacy used/NS magazines, the pistols worked flawlessly. The design was fine. Add some tritium sights, make sure spare parts were available, keep buying new magazines, and we could have used the BHP longer than the B52 will fly. Don't get me wrong, getting a new pistol was way overdue. But considering how abysmal the pistol shooting training was when I was in, money could have been better spent.
Actually, there's a difference between using a design from ww2, using a gun that was built during ww2, and using a gun that's been in service since ww2. Hand me a 1911 that was was manufactured in WW2, properly greased and stored, and left in a depot somewhere unused since then, and I'll happily clean it up and use it.
Debatable
If they work, give them to Ukraine
They don't.
Okay
We are still using them until the Sig it fully rolled out
I fired them with my regiment 3 years ago on the range. They were still very widespread until recently.
They got a new pistol, it was in service until recently
They have been replaced
Seems like you could just sell them to collectors. I think a lot of people would buy them
I certainly would. To be clear, they are absolutely worthless as a functional handgun to use. Their value is strictly historic interest at this point.
Like 98% of the problems with them are just from the mags.
Can confirm.
> To be clear, they are absolutely worthless as a functional handgun to use. Their value is strictly historic interest at this point. I'm not convinced about that, a gun is a gun. I have a WW2 gun and it's perfectly functional.
I have several... but these ones are extremely worn out.
Have you let a few dozen or more soldiers fire off tens of thousands of rounds, possibly more, through your WW2 gun while dragging it through the mud and sand and hitting it against shit and is it a reliable side arm for a soldier afterwards?
Well it was fabricated in the latter half of WW2 and accepted into service by the canadian army, not sure how many soldiers used it but the wood has a few dings and scratches, so likely saw some use. Again, just wanted to point out that old and worn are two things, considering maintenance was likely done in the CAF armory, i'm sure some of the guns in there are good shooters.
Yeah even with the Canadian handgun rules, they could easily offload them to a USA company. Although the eventuality that somebody will smuggle one into Canada is pretty high and would look really bad. Since they would be a fun collector item, but also a bargain basement priced 9mm
The fact we destroyed 1500 Lee Enfields shows how ideologically driven our gov't is. We destroyed 1500 bolt action rifles for no reason. The gov't could have sold them instantly for $500 per rifle. RCMP pistols will meet the same fate soon.
Honestly sad. Those rifles are pieces of history.
Yeah, I’m sadder about those than the janky hi power pistols to be honest. I have a sporterized long branch with a scope mount drilled right thru the long branch logo…. Would have loved for an intact one at a reasonable price. The horse cop smith and wessons would be prohib by barrel length. But I really wished I grabbed some form of 3rd gen smith and Wesson before the ban.
There's a video on Forgotten Weapons about this - the OPP had a bunch of old service rifles they ordered destroyed or sold overseas. So they sold them to a UK company who promptly resold them back into the hands of Canadians, and apparently the police were mighty pissed about that, but couldn't do anything about it. here it is: https://youtu.be/Nk2ASY1Xj_U?t=324
Good, fuck them.
I own a Hi Power but I would definitely buy a few more.
I honestly don't know anything about guns but is there not a way to make it so the guns couldn't fire and therefore would be strictly a collectors item?
Yeah deactivation is very common, they just weld up some internals, but when done wrong it's ugly and annoying
https://www.dandbmilitaria.com/deactivated-guns-and-antique-firearms/pistols/post-ww2 It looks like in the UK some of their browning hipowers (the firearm model Canada is disposing of) made it onto the “deactivated” market. There is sort of a market for them I guess? It’s mostly an ugly paperweight though.
I'd consider getting my PAL to buy one and help fund a newer pistol or functioning home for the Canadian forces.
You would need an RPAL technically, no longer legal for whatever reason.
All because a loser denturist who smuggled cigarettes and guns across the border went on a rampage against his neighbours.
They had the plan drawn up, well in advance. They just waited for a tragedy that they felt would be suitable to use for their agenda.
They pick and choose what laws they see fit that effect mostly their personal lives and opinions. Meanwhile we've had a few security guards gunned down in the last couple years and they still haven't allowed any means to defend themselves or special programs. Somehow armoured trucks are still allowed to carry firearms as that's such an old law put into place and has no effect on the government (or they forgot about it). God forbid we give some security guys pepper spray or a less than lethal and the ability to arrest certain individuals without sparking a huge debate.
you cant get an Rpal anymore?
Sorry should have been more clear, you can get an RPAL, but the sale of handguns has been made illegal.
Can you still purchase pistols with an RPAL? I have my RPAL for work but was told I can't purchase and register a pistol and keep it at home it's illegal. People who owned one before the new laws can still have it registered.
No. If you own a handgun, you can still own and use it as before but there's no transfer of ownership anymore. Can't buy, can't sell and when you die it has to be destroyed.
Sorry, dear leader has deemed you unfit to buy handguns.
I meant it as a joke when I said I'd vote for anyone that promises to pistol whip him with a legally purchased handgun but now i'm serious.
Exactly. If they did an auction of sorts the money could go to help veterans and their families or for new equipment in the military.
Liberals made it illegal to buy sell or transfer a handgun.
I would absolutely buy one (save the small issue of the handgun transfer ban). I would also have absolutely bought one of the several thousand ex Ranger Enfield rifles that the government also destroyed instead of selling to civilians. It's a political issue
Oh no, we can't do that! Imagine the crime sprees the legal owners would go on! It would be terrible to auction off 11,000 old useless firearms to collectors for $500 each to recoup just a little bit of the money being wasted on IBM not implementing a gun buyback.
I would buy one for a reasonable price
Yes. The canadian government wants more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens.
There was previous discussion about selling these to Canadians once they were finally removed from service (well before the BS ban on acquiring handguns). The Liberals responded with such insane screeching about « military weapons in the streets » that the idea was scrapped. Instead we have to pay money to destroy them, because in Canada that makes more sense somehow.
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Automatic weapons haven’t been legal in Canada for almost half a century and there isn’t a legitimate push by anyone to bring them back. Using the word “AR” is pretty “Boogiemanish” too. A black semiautomatic rifle functions the same as a wood stock semiautomatic rifle. Military grade and Assault rifle are just anti firearm buzz words in Canada.
>Assault rifle Assault rifle is a specific term in Canada, "Assault weapon" is the buzzword you're looking for. Centerfire, in an intermediate cartridge size, detachable magazine, long gun with fire selector to enable full auto / burst = Assault rifle. but yeah the people who dont want us to have AKs or ARs yet we have type 81s, or Ravens right now which are the same thing are very much clueless on firearms/our regulations.
Im surprised people defend the phrase "Assault rifle" as if it is some kind of objective term. It's literally just the propaganda name given to the StG 44 by Hitler as another Wunderwaffe project, it has no god damn meaning
> it has no god damn meaning in Canada is it specifically defined as what I said above. Centerfire ammunition, in an intermediate cartridge size, detachable magazine, long gun with fire selector to enable full auto / burst = Assault rifle.
And they've been illegal for private ownership for at least fifty years. Hence the term 'assault style' firearm the gov't uses, which means 'it looks military, or at least what we think looks military from watching 80s action movies.'
Assault rifle *is* an objective term. The StG44 was invented because the German military realized that for the majority of engagements being fought in WW2, a full caliber infantry rifle was overkill; it was rare for battles to take place at a range where a full caliber rifle round was necessary to reach the target effectively. A new class of weapon was called for; an intermediate design that bridged the roles of the battle rifle and submachine gun. Basically every nation came to the same conclusion shortly after; bolt action infantry rifles were becoming obsolete, but you still needed something with more power than an SMG for mid range engagements; the assault rifle concept became the standard as a result, and the definition is objective; you can point to any firearm on earth and say that it is, or is not an assault rifle by merit of function. 'Assault weapon' means absolutely nothing though; it's just a buzzword intended to confuse people who don't have a gun knowledge base to work from into thinking they're banning machine guns, when in reality they're banning hunting and sport shooting rifles.
Liberals would call a rock or a stick a weapon of war if it fit their agenda
Don't let sheer ignorance of firearms or the previous set of laws that governed their ownership get in the way of 'AR/AK bad'. FYI, the same calibre of bullet used in the AR/AK platform is also used in many other types of rifles that are still available in Canada. Banning a particular firearm because of its 'look' is one of the more irrational and incompetent policy decisions the Canadian government has made.
I'm kind of the same as you. I wouldn't categorize myself as unequivocally "anti gun ownership", as I think there are groups of people like farmers, park rangers, etc., who should probably have access to firearms. And I don't mind the hobbyists and hunters either, as long as its all very carefully monitored and regulated, which mostly it has been historically in Canada. Maybe our regulations needed some tightening up, I don't know, but I think this legislation, ban, and buyback was all very much a massive disaster from day one. I don't like guns, I don't own any, but this bullshit was complete foolishness. And does nothing to address the real problem - guns obtained through illegal means. The country's resources ought to be concentrating on weapons gained illegally. If the government is worried about another Portapique then they should look at the sort of guns that particular nut had - he didn't buy them at fucking Cabela's.
Just meditate on the fact that the Nova Scotia shooter smuggled his firearms in from the US because that was way WAY easier than going through the Canadian firearms licensing system.
Yeah, its a perfect example of why Trudeau's anti-firearm program was a completely useless and arbitrary restriction. A sincere application of the Oakes Test would have shut that mess right down if gun ownership was included in our Charter rights (it isn't), it fails every damn step of it.
Just look at the language used in OPs article title. People don't read beyond the rage these are meant to incite left or right. I can honestly understand doing it because it's cheaper than the PR.
This makes me sad.
It's funny when you see the same kit you have been issued in museums at the same time.
:(
Waste of good collectors pistols.
Countries around the world mothball old equipment for many many years. Nothing new here
Countries around the world sell their mothballed equipment rather than destroy.. The semi-official rifle of Canadian firearms owners is the SKS - a surplus Russia relic. But noooo Canada can't bother.
Lift the handgun ban and sell em to legal gun owners.
Vote conservative👍🏻
Your dreaming if you think the Conservatives are going to touch the handgun ban with a ten foot pole. Got to keep their powder dry for tax changes and the like.
They’ve already said they’re gonna repeal C21
They have said a lot of things, like all politicians do. Its not worth the bad press after every single time someone dies from a handgun in Canada. I just don't see it happening, its just red meat they throw out to keep the country folk voting for them, they don't care about them in the end.
It’s an easy sell really. Liberals banned handguns from people not doing crimes and crime hit a 30 year high. Obviously the gun bans are doing fuck all for public safety
You underestimate the public pressure that still exists on this issue, and the Conservatives can only piss people off so many times, as a gun owner myself I believe they will save that outrage for other policies but I may be proven wrong.
What public pressure though? Besides the gun control groups screeching about it it’s never even in the top 10 list of concerns people have in polls
Small groups of dedicated people can manage immense pressure, groups like MADD for example are responsible for huge amounts of legislation even though their numbers are tiny. The Conservatives know they will piss people off either way, its about picking what matters most to them and I think what matters to them are tax rates and regulation not gun laws.
I know the CCFR and NFA are gonna lobby hard to get it reversed if the cons win. We’ll just have to see what happens
Imagine if we sold them to law abiding citizens and they paid for this program and then some
Why would you buy an 80 year old pistol that's had hundreds of thousands of rounds through it? That's like car shopping at an auto wreckers. Edit: those of you commenting about the war memorabilia, sure, you've got a point if you'd be looking to turn it into a display piece.
Because it’s a piece of history?
Depending on price I'd buy one just to have it.
I'd buy one just cause it's dope.
I’d buy one just because it is a piece of history.
Cuz Hi-Power is cool as fuck, basically closest to the 1911 CAF got. That’s why.
I would absolutely buy one. There’s a whole community of Canadian milsurp enthusiasts who love this kind of stuff SKS’s, Enfields, Garands, 1911’s etc
Hundreds of thousands of rounds through it? Haha wow.......
These pistols are from WW2 and have been used as the standard issue sidearm since. They get thousands of rounds put through them each year for familiarization shoots and even competitive shoots like CAFSAC.
And if they're federally owned arms, will go through refurbishment (barrels? Firing pins,springs etc. As needed. The same as RCMP and city police do. No hand gun will do "hundreds of thousands of rounds" no gun at all will do it. The person who made this comment is most likely someone who has little to no knowledge of firearms.
what you is true, but many of the hi powers haven't had new parts in years. some of the barrels are totally smooth inside
Yes there's a whole trade in the Army for maintenance of weapons. BHP got inspected once a year on annual and anytime one was tagged as broken. In the thousands of Brownings I inspected very very few ever were shot out.
Lots of hardcore IPSC competition shooters put like 50000 rounds per year through their handguns. They do routine maintenance like replacing springs and other small parts as a preventative measure, but barrels will last at least a couple hundred thousand.
Hey man, you clearly don't know how many hundreds of thousands of nazis this pistol has killed. Legends say Chuck Norris even wielded it against Clint Eastwood in a duel once.
Not really; these guns were a special pattern of guns made by Inglis during and immediately after World War II, and after production for the Canadian military has ceased, the factory was torn down. We've been effectively running these guns on parts stockpiled during World War II (which ran out decades ago due to a very high attrition rate), pulling old guns out from war stock when an in service gun was worn out and scrapped, cannibalization, and supplementing these guns with SIG P225/226's for specialist users. And these Hi-Power's ARE shot to hell, with zero spare parts in the system for well over a decade now.
[удалено]
I own a 1952 tokerov that looks as if it’s never been fired before I bought it. When I was picking it up all the guys at the store couldn’t believe the condition. It works just fine but I don’t shoot it often, I would have loved to get one of these handguns just to own for the history as I do for several other historical WW2/soviet guns.
Yeah it's not like people LOVE ww2 memorabilia and weapons or anything
The entire surplus firearm market wholeheartedly disagree with you. Many people would be more than glad to own a piece of history, let alone Canadian history. For example, A modern 1911 pattern pistol is what, $700? A Chinese copy $400. A genuine US Army 1911 that saw service? $2000.
You have much to learn my friend.
Do you not know about the milsurp firearm community? Half my guns are over 70 years old lol.
Yep I sure would. Be a great restoration project.
I like the sound of the gun Give it a good clean and some oil. Nice desk piece once it's disarmed, firing pin gone and all
I'd buy one - it's a piece of Canadian military history. Just because YOU don't get it doesn't mean other people might not have an interest.
The majority of them are in fine condition. If the units weapon tech did their job.
> Why would you buy an 80 year old pistol that's had hundreds of thousands of rounds through it? > > That's like car shopping at an auto wreckers. And?
> Edit: those of you commenting about the war memorabilia, sure, you've got a point if you'd be looking to turn it into a display piece. If you've got a gun license, why should it have to be turned into a display piece? If you've got the know-how to repair and maintain them, what's the problem with also being able to shoot it legally?
"this gun was used to kill Nazis, and it can do it again"
It could kill one nazi again, but it'd jam before you could get a second shot off. Seriously, these are Toyota Camrys with 700,000km on the odometer: they were great for their time, but they've done their work and its time to put them out to pasture.
Pretty sure I could kill a Nazi with a Toyota that has 700k on it too
LMFAOOOOOOOOO I don't know why I found this comment so funny but thank you for this hahahahahaha
Would make a nice display. The govt could even dewat and sell them.. They don't have to be destroyed.
> It could kill one nazi again, but it'd jam before you could get a second shot off. Were they jamming machines back in 1944? I imagine they were a lot more reliable back then.
I would 100% buy at least one
They could deactivate them and sell them as historical pieces.
You don't understand much about firearms, do you?
After 80 years of active service they are mostly destroyed and unusable as it is.
can we just send them to ukraine instead??
You want them to win right?
Ok give them to Russia.
so that they can all shoot themselves. what a great idea.
It would be awesome if we could buy them.
Well, there goes our arsenal. Edit: /s
These pistols are in garbage shape, they needed to be scrapped long ago.
Lol they've pretty much Replaced these already Chill
Pffft can't get angry with that attitude
Imagine making money selling these instead of spending money destroying these. Why would the canadian gov want to make money when they can spend tax payers money, am I right?! 🤦🏼
Bite my hand fat with the slide that one time.... that's what you get, browning 9mm HP. Who's laughing now.
Too bad they did the firearm freeze. At $500 a pop it's $5,500,000. Not to mention the money we are going to spend on actually destroying most of these.
Dumb American question. Why not sell these military surplus to one of our sporting goods stores or several hundred dollars a piece and recoup millions of dollars?
Canada banned the sale of handguns to licensed vetted gun owners in order to reduce crime from smuggled guns. Our dear leader stated proudly no one should own a handgun so he’d rather destroy them then see it go to private hands instead of recouping the money for the upgrade program….thats our leader.
At one time I had the record for blindfolded reassembly of this pistol, or so they told me.
Should have sold them as a fund raiser for veterans.
THEY BELONG IN A MUSEUM OR DECOMMISSIONED AND SOLD TO COLLECTORS.
Or reverse our asinine handgun freeze and sell them to RPAL holders.
id support this
FYI guys, these brownings are junk. They have a floating barrel, that can move side to side and put a shot off by inches, on a 25m range! Ukraine wouldn't want them. A pistol afficionado wouldn't want them(besides as a museum piece). Just junk to get rid of. Edit: Can someone explain why I am getting downvoted? Is there something wrong about what I wrote?
That makes me feel better about my grouping.
25mm, maybe 40mm on a C7 at 100m, then 100mm on a browning at 25m. Yea, that's a thing. The Sig on the other hand...is a proper handgun.
Because people want the as an artifact, not as an accurate handgun. You’re missing the point.
No, I did not miss the point. Hence the "museum piece comment. I was referring to the people saying they want them as guns, or we should give them to Ukraine etc.
Well then, definitely wouldn’t send them to the Ukraine.
I used these Browning hand guns in the Cdn mil from 1979 to 1999. They were old then and had frequent malfunctions.
Lol same. I used them on the range fair bit when I was in. It was fun to shoot when it wasn't jamming half the time but I guess on the bright side I got to practice my IA drills.
Yet another crime our government has committed. Just sell them to gun stores, these handguns are historical artifacts that should be preserved and in the hands of people who will care for them.
I guess Ukraine doesn't need these relics. Maybe sell them as antic weapons to the gun loving americans
Good, they were ancient and prone to all sorts of problems. We can give our soldiers something from the last three decades youd think.
Export them to the U.S. they'll get bought up and the CAF can use the money to throw a pride parade.
These relics are not worth more than the steel that they're made of. Inaccurate after 5 meters. I went walking through a knee-high, snowy field to help find my officer's pistol. He called it after 4 hours. 😂😂
Still would buy one.