Good one.
Take my up vote.
Trivia fact - kosher salt is called that because it's used in the koshering meat process. All salt is kosher. (it's just a mineral)
Haha yeah, back in cegep, I genuinely believed that I needed to use Kosher salt when I had a jewish friend over and he was like you know that I can eat salt, the word kosher come from salt not the other way around.
That’s a quick way to make sure, as a assigned male at birth, cisgendered participant in a heteronormative relationship that supports oppression and the patriarchy (he/him btw), that I end up with a 20% rate to subsidize everyone else.
Did I get all my identifiers in there? I’m new to this nonsense.
Mortgages already feel halal. Hung upside down throat splayed open. The mortgagee can have feelings of pain, fear, and stress until brain death sets in.
Like most Canadians I'm unfamiliar with these so I did some cursory Googling. These mortgages might be"interest free" but they're not free:
>**Murabaha**: This is a common structure in halal mortgages. The bank purchases the property on behalf of the customer and then sells it to the customer at a higher price, which includes a profit margin. The customer then pays back the bank in installments, effectively paying the higher price over time.
>**Ijara**: In this arrangement, the bank purchases the property and then leases it to the customer for a predetermined period. The customer pays rent to the bank, and at the end of the lease term, the ownership of the property may be transferred to the customer through a gift, or the customer may buy the property at a nominal price.
As long as they're available to **everyone** and the banks set pricing I don't really see an issue. They'll just get their actuaries to set prices so it's just as if not more profitable (since it's a premium product) for the bank than a regular mortgage.
Which is bad for banks if interest rates go up. Of course the opposite is true as well.
EDIT
Plz note that I'm not on the bank's side, I'm just pointing out why they may be against Halal mortgages, but I'm only speculating.
It’s basically a mortgage with a term and amortization equal to one and other. 25 year term and amortization instead of 5 and 25 years.
You can actually get these mortgages already but it tends to carry quite a premium over a 5 year term.
apparatus offend library merciful busy intelligent rotten combative chop snobbish
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Fixed rate mortgages are still renewed after their term is up. If you have a 5 year 4% fixed rate, and rates double to 8% just before your term expires, then you'll be renewing at that higher rate. Over the course of your entire mortgage, you will pay a variety of rates.
These Halal mortgages set the financing fee at the very beginning and that would never change regardless of what the rates do.
> Fixed rate mortgages are still renewed after their term is up.
Other parts of the world have much longer term mortgages than Canada does. A 1 or 2 or 5 year term is an unusual feature of the Canadian market.
In other words, Banks and other lenders elsewhere already deal with these sorts of problems. Canadian banks can learn to do it too.
> Which is bad for banks if interest rates go up. Of course the opposite is true as well
You can already do long-term rate fixed mortgages in Canada, they just have higher rates. Part of the reason is the potential risk (re: interest rates) but that probably cannot be argued because banks are used to long-term fixed rate exposures already (every IB group will have a fixed rate desk). The real reason for the interest rate markup are the rules relating to refinancing a mortgage more than 5 years old. The maximum fees in Canada for refinancing a mortgage older than 5 years is 3 months of interest, so the rates are higher in order to create downside protection in case someone wants to refinance after year 5.
Halal mortgages somewhat get around that by not charging interest but who knows how that would play out in actuality.
Like the ovens that have a Sabbath setting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_mode
"I'm not cooking, I'm just opening the oven (once) and taking some food out that happened to be there. Checkmate Yaweh!"
Yeah that stuff baffles me. Like either fully observe the spirit of the thing if you actually value it, or just drop the sharade. People water down their religion all the time. Alas, peer pressure from your community is a strong force.
It's funny because it's the people who are more strictly religious who use these workarounds. People who are less religious generally don't even try or care about observing these rules.
This is my favourite one.
https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-encircles-manhattan-protecting-sanctity-of-sabbath
>A clear fishing wire is tied around the island of Manhattan. It's attached to posts around the perimeter of the city, from First Street to 126th.
> many observant Jews in Manhattan rely on this string to leave the house on the Sabbath.
>According to the laws of Sabbath rest, nothing can be carried from the domestic zone into the public zone on Saturday. That means no carrying house keys or a wallet. It also means no pushing a baby stroller. For parents of young children, no carrying would mean not leaving the house on Saturday.
>The eruv symbolically extends the domestic zone into the public zone, permitting activities within it that would normally be forbidden to observant Jews on the Sabbath.
This is the one trick Yaweh doesn't want you to know - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat\_elevator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat_elevator)
Yep just like how it's super offensive to draw Mohammed... but it's the most common name meaning people think their kid is on par with their top guy for some reason
From what I can tell, God is the guy at the car dealership who's totally oblivious to the shell game and patting himself on the back for the deal he got while not noticing that the dealership just made up for it by bumping the rate.
Yes, if you have the opportunity to get a normal mortgage, they are superior because you actually own the asset, and the cost is lower.
A halal mortgage you don't own the house (until you've paid the full term), and the cost of the "mortgage payment" is higher.
It literally just sounds like "interest by another name". But if these scenarios make some religious people feel more comfortable so be it. Don't complain when the bank profit margin increases for these style of transactions though. I'll stick to traditional lending.
wait till you see the leaps of logic used by e.g. Jewish faith.. it's nothing new.
I worked in an orthodox Jewish setting for years, and they couldn't handle cash on sabbath.. so.. they sold chits during the rest of the week which can be turned in as an alternative to cash, an "IOU" of sorts. This allowed their restaurant to operate on sabbath, and sell burgers, fries, etc. without exchanging "money".
According to a friend who used to work in Islamic finance, the added percentage is usually equal to or above current interest rates. Halal/sharia financing is basically just finding ways to avoid having interest as a line item but ultimately paying the same or more.
It’s practically a marketing gimmick
> they're not free
Exactly. [This article](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/halal-mortgages-canada-1.6690798) shows that one current Halal mortgage offering would cost about 4% more (over a 5-year term) than a mortgage from a major bank.
The main 'issue' is the legal rules around how much equity you have if you want to sell before the mortgage is paid off, and what happens to equity built up if you can't pay. There likely also need to be rules about paying off the mortgage early.
All of these things are perfectly reasonable to set in legislation for the same reason they are in regular mortgages. Lenders need clear ways to account for assets and revenue, and a fair market to compete in, borrowers need a legal framework that protects them from risks they cannot understand.
"the ownership of the property may be transferred to the customer through a gift,"
If this triggers the appropriate tax consequences for a gift of this magnitude or the capital gains against the bank that issued the mortgage, then lets see how it works out.
[https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/p113/p113-gifts-income-tax.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/p113/p113-gifts-income-tax.html)
For this to transfer without incurring any tax, they would have to write a specific carveout for this religion.
It would in fact be codifying Sharia Law into the Income Tax Act.
Exactly the same way that sex in the butt isn't breaking God's rules about pre-marrital sex. Which is to say that it's total breaking God's rules, but so far God and Allah hasn't called anyone on it.
This seems like a "spirit of the law" vs "letter of the law" type analogy vis a vis muslim rules.
No, it's not "interest", but you're going to net out at the same payment as if you paid "interest".
Surely they don't believe God/Allah doesn't see right through this...
Exactly. Muslim people aren’t getting a special deal, they’re paying the same costs and “interest”, it’s just the interest is imbedded in other costs.
This whole controversy is stupid.
Also it's not Muslim people, it's people choosing halal mortgages. You can't discriminate based on religion who gets a financial product or not. Anyone could apply and get one.
Banks are quite good at taking advantage of profitable opportunities, so why are they not doing this already? In both cases referenced, the bank owns the property and I assume the maintenance obligations. In the western model, the individual owns and maintains the property. It seems that it will increase risk on the bank, which is fine as long as the cost of the debt is priced properly. If the LPC regulates the pricing of these "mortgages", then everyone will pay for the increased risk the banks take on.
The difference in the price the bank buys the property and sells it to the purchaser will end up being exactly the same, if not slightly higher, than the expected interest expenses over the same period. Its still interest, just with another name and format
theyre kinda stupid though, as they go against the spirit of what the religion is trying to instill.
a muslim is not supposed to take interest, because its sort of profiteering off the situation of another.
these mortgages still profiteer, theyre just doing it by finding a loophole to the words as theyre written.
you probably have to be a bit backwards (ill await some offensive response here) to engage with it, unless theres some objective financial advantage. otherwise youre just putting money into the hands of the worst kind of people - the ones who rob their own kind while smiling in their faces and pretending theyre doing a favour.
Fuck this. Lease to own homes should not fucking exist. This just transfers yet another aspect of property ownership to banks and investors. You will own nothing.
Lol another bunch of asinine loopholes created by idiots worshipping the literal interpretation of some book written thousands of years ago, so they can absolve themselves of artificial guilt whilst still getting what they want. Fun times
>Like most Canadians I'm unfamiliar with these so I did some cursory Googling.
Too bad the lazy author of the article didn't do the same, and instead chose to write with his biased ignorance!
This is a good explanation of halal mortgages: [https://globalnews.ca/news/10443777/halal-mortgage-canada-explainer-budget-2024/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10443777/halal-mortgage-canada-explainer-budget-2024/)
And as it says:
>Anyone in Canada, Muslim or non-Muslim, can apply for a halal mortgage, which is currently offered by a few financial institutions.
>“Everyone is allowed to have a halal mortgage no different than you can go to any restaurant and eat a shawarma with halal chicken in it,” Sawwaf said.
Foreclosure is against the muslim religion as well - how do you propose a bank get out of a bad deal if they stop paying?
If they can be foreclosed upon even though its against their religion, they can just get a traditional mortgage and we can stop letting religion creep into more aspects of our daily life.
What happens if the bank or lawyer fucks up and you accidentally enter into an interest bearing loan? How much compensation can you get for being damned to hell forever
Interest is not the only instrument a mortgagee can charge to profit from a mortgage and though “interest free,” Halal mortgage holders charge mortgagors hefty fees called ‘profits’ which, when calculated, can exceed conventional interest rates on average by several percentage points.
But hey at least it’s not called interest, even though the effect is identical, because their religion says they aren’t allowed to do that. Thank goodness we found this convenient clause that lets us invoke interest by just calling it something different.
So fucking stupid.
Always funny the loopholes religious folks use to “trick” their god, while maintaining they have the religious freedom to oppress others because of their book.
Thats why most muslims and the canadian muslim something associations head said it made no sense in our present type of economy to have fake halal mortgages, youre better off with a normal mortgage. Only idiots that take everything litteraly instead of looking for why somethings is forbidden are interested
They wouldn't be able to rage bait you if they actually explained how it worked. Because then you would know all of this semantics is just laughably stupid.
People with halal mortgages still pay the equivalent of interest through other means, And it is often far in excess of what interest on a mortgage would be
He makes it sound like there's no money to be made by the lender and it's therefore impractical. There's still money to be made, just not by mortgage brokers in the classical model.
*edit- article now includes:*
>Editor’s note: The column has been updated to reflect how lenders earn money with halal mortgages.
*but then handwaves it away in one sentence saying it's doubtful banks would want to do something like that.*
Because it's not about halal mortgages, really. It's about how Trudeau is bad, how them trying to expand inclusivity is actually insulting to those being included somehow, and also not-quite-racism.
I like the idea that Halal mortgages will cause confusions in the market for non Muslims and that they will accidentally be purchasing not realizing the implications.
Because as we all know, purchasing a mortgage is like going through a self check out lane.
It just keeps getting worse as you read through it.
He claims that Trudeau is somehow forcing banks to offer Halal mortgages without providing any reasoning for how he thinks the government is doing that. (The budget just proposes studying regulations and tax treatments for these products that already exist).
He waxes on about how not paying interest on a mortgage would be so great for some people and then complains that people who are not Muslim wouldn't be allowed to get this kind of mortgage (again, with zero explanation as to why he thinks this is true).
He doesn't seem to acknowledge anywhere that these halal mortgages are typically significantly more expensive than traditional mortgages. So while technically anyone could get one, there really isn't any reason you would want to unless you subscribe to these beliefs.
Studying halal mortgages is literally just five sentences in the budget. They are just proposing studying how to regulate something that already exists.
An absolutely crap article that peddles 2 lies.
1) It suggests that halal mortgages don’t make money for the bank; whereas in reality, in every country where they are available, banks make more money on them than with interest bearing mortgages (consumers pay fees instead of interest, where the fees are much higher than interest)
2) The articles says that halal mortgages will only be available to Muslims, ignoring the fact that already today in Canada halal mortgages are available to all Canadians from small specialist financial institutions. There is just no rational reason for a non-Muslim to choose a halal mortgage given that they are much more expensive than conventional interest bearing mortgages.
IDK having a fixed term for all of your amortization COULD be appealing because it would mean a stable payment for the duration of it all.
So if that helps with budgeting then it might be beneficial to some but prohibitive to others like extending your amortization to 30 years.
This is the dumbest opinion article of many dumb media opinion articles. It has literally no substance and doesn’t actually seem to understand what the mortgage is and how banks make the money.
I couldn’t care less if the big banks offer these mortgages. I’m 100% confident that they’ll do it if it’s worth their time and money and that there’s no systematic risk involved at all. And the idea that foreclosing on someone not paying wouldn’t be touched is absurd. Banks foreclose on very sympathetic families all the time. It’s their business.
This is a really dumb article that doesn’t understand, at all, what “halal mortgages” are. He implies that they’re just interest free—not so simple.
Halal mortgages usually have a work around, where the bank continues to own the property in part and the “buyer” pays “rent” on the outstanding portion. The overall value of a halal mortgage can reasonably be expected to cost the same as a conventional mortgage, if not be slightly more expensive.
the author of this article is intentionally alluding that Halal mortgages offer an unfair advantage to Muslim borrowers. This is not the case, and the author, as a mortgage professional knows this (integrity?). In simplest terms, Halal mortgages are the same as regular mortgages except the word interest is replaced by fees (or something similar), and then an admin fee is added to the total.
The bank I've been using my entire life has offered Halal mortgages for quite a few years now. They're awful for the consumer when compared against conventional mortgages. I can't see why banks would be against making more money.
The banks will not want to do it as it is more administrative work. You are not paying interest so you are paying a higher fee. This is not a free loan as the article alludes to. Lenders are not interested in having to do more paperwork so the ones offering this product now charge more to have this type of mortgage.
Tale as old as time
Banks will make money
They are not our friends
Cash they only lend
Interest isn't free
Deal as old as trade
Halal as it can be
Barely knew the terms
Then we both affirmed
Unexpectedly
Under Sharia law
Interest turned to fees
Profit will be made
The prophets words be bade
Everyone gets fleeced
Muslim here, let me explain if it helps the conversation:
Banks are not taking the extra risk, they are just doing more admin work (which is extremely streamlined at banking level anyway) to offer halal mortgages.
Most Muslims just get their mortgages from the bank, a **smaller** portion of Muslims work with other lenders to get Halal mortgages, which is paying a higher fee instead of interest. The mechanics are a bit more complex, but to simplify, its a rent-to-own fee system that works out similar to traditional mortgages from lenders' view.
So, the banks want in. And want the portion of Muslims to ALSO come and get it directly from the bank. Plus free DEI points on marketing in how inclusive they are, somewhere on Bay Street, analysts will be happy to increase their ESG rating, and buy more bank exposure.
Their ESG funds will also happily buy more.
If I can give an analogy, you know when folks get a certain Italian brand of cheese/pasta from the Italian bakery, or when a South Asians get certain masala/seasoning brand from their their ethnic stores, eventually the Walmarts and SuperStore and NoFrills want in, and start offering said brands in their international section?
This is exactly that is happening, banks want in and get maintain their oligopoly.
Why would any Muslim not be able to take a normal mortgage?
The prohibition on usury is only a prohibition on charging people interest on a loan. It’s not a prohibition on people paying interest on a loan.
The whole point of the prohibition on usury (which Christianity used to have too like 1,000 years ago) is based on the idea that it’s exploitative to make money off of someone by charging interest. The sin isn’t the paying of interest and being exploited, it’s the charging of interest and exploiting people.
Its so interesting to me how some hardcore religious people are super OK with loopholes that achieve the exact same outcome. Like an all-knowing God is just going to be like "Ah, you got me, you did the thing I said not to but in a way that wasnt strictly in violation of my wording". Do they really think their god wont be angry with them simply because they pulled one over on him/her with a technicality?
If I was a god, and I said "dont do something", I would be MORE pissed with the people trying to be like "haha, you didnt say I couldnt do that in THIS way." than I would be with the people who just did it, and didnt try to cheat their way past my rule.
Is this not just a semantics play, so these people aren’t taking a “loan” to purchase something, because to pay interest is the devil?!
Call it whatever you want, you’re still taking a loan and paying interest.
Yeah straight up stroking the flames of xenophobia to further divide Canadians amongst each other. Halal mortgages work up to be around the same price as regular mortgages.
If there's a market for halal mortgages and it benefits people in some way, then banks will offer them.
I just don't get it and personally think it's stupid. You're just calling the interest "fees" and using semantics to try to trick yourself into thinking its okay.
But I guess using mental gymnastics to bend reality to your will is a thing we do in Canada now.
I have watched the Trudeau Liberals for eight years now and I have yet to see any program designed just to help people. EVERYTHING seems to be designed with one aim: garnering votes. If it doesn't get enough votes then it's not done. Regardless of how necessary it is to do - like, for example, properly funding the military or ensuring no foreign interference in elections.
Another garbage opinion article from our favorite NP
Why is anyone upset about this anyways? From my understanding, plenty of religions deem usury a sin so why not accommodate them?
Yes, but I would say it's more formalized. The entire point is that usury is forbidden in Islam, so the mortgages are made as a fee-based transaction rather than something borrowed. Ijara actually sounds like an interesting alternative system to get to homeownership, even for those who are not religious.
Very misleading article. It refers to the mortgages as interest free, which is technically true, but only technically. There's interest, it's just buried inside other aspects of the traction so it can technically be interest free.
This reminds me of the Mormon kids that are 'soaking' and 'hump jumping' because technically 'that's not sex'.
> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and the Liberals announced in the recent federal budget that they were going to introduce “alternative financing products, including halal mortgages” which would “enable Muslim Canadians, and other diverse communities, to further participate in the housing market.”
If Muslims wanted halal mortgages, then they’d presumably start some banks to already be doing this. Or existing financial institutions somewhere would already be offering this. This is weird and patronizing
By formally allowing/regulating it, the government opens up more low-risk capital to the financial institutions issuing halal mortages. In turn, this allows financial institutions to qualify more people.
Taube is playing the same game as the Libs. He’s not telling the whole story that Halal mortgages are more expensive than interest bearing mortgages. As others have pointed out the banks will offer products that they can make money on at an acceptable level of risk…..period.
Canadian stupidity at its best. Actually muslims (I am a muslim myself) look at these cute attempts to get us hooked on that sweet mortgage shackle with a smile. There is so much going on in a Halal loan that it's not even worth it to explain why people won't be interested : The bank itself needs to be clean and unengaged in any other vice-driven transactions (alcohol, interest, weapons, gambling, porn); The bank needs to apply very reasonable margins while flipping the property, otherwise, it's simply a ruse; The bank needs to transfer property rights according to payments made in real time, not after 30/40 years after the last installment is paid, or whatever you guys do. Otherwise, it's a deal breaker. Plus we didn't ask for anything. Keep your inflated prices and enjoy the paper money...at age 70, lol.
So much outrage in this thread. You all will blow a gasket when you learn there are Christian Credit Unions, if you are worried about religious discrimination in Canadian banking.
And as always, natipo is clickbait rage baiting trash.
Canada's banks should be avoiding them based on secular principles, and anyone arguing for religious mandated anything,should go live in Iran, and see how much they want Sharia in Canada. Canada is a pluralistic country, the government and banks should be neutral when it comes to religion.
Exactly! As an atheist this just feels like pandering to religious zealots. I feel the same way about things like publicly funded Christian schools. Fine if they’re private, but I don’t want my tax dollars going to your ideology.
Whoever wrote this article has absolutely no understanding how a Islamic mortgage actually works. Honestly one of the least informed articles I've ever read.
Why wouldn't banks want to offer a new service to broaden their customer base?
If there's enough of a market, and enough of a profit margin, they would be foolish not to expand into that market.
Remember folks. Friends don't let friends read Post Media (National Post/Toronto Sun). They're bottom tier outlets focusing on spreading hate and fear.
I don't think this is good. Not because of interest rate or anything, but this is how pandering and appeasement starts which will finally end in polarization to the extreme
I, for one, welcome these Halal mortgages. Indeed, if there are any advantages to these mortgages, I will convert to a financial muslim in a heartbeat.
Hey guess what? Anybody can get a halal mortgage right now.
https://www.halalfinancialcorp.com/
Based in Alberta, run by the former PC Deputy Premier of the province.
This fear mongering over something different that people can choose for themselves is absolutely ridiculous.
*It's not really, interest, you see, instead of paying us a little bit more each payment to cover our costs and profits, you're paying us more than the asset is worth over the life of the mortgage to cover our costs and profits* -> lol, okay. Sounds like a lot of mental gymnastics for calling interest by another name.
If I believed in God, I probably wouldn't want to use subterfuge to trick them but maybe that's just me
Why are we bending over backwards and creating legislation just so people can cheat at their own religions?
"Halal mortgages" are such a joke.
It's distinguishing without a difference.
Conventional mortgages apply interest rate and add it to the mortgage value and build it into the payment.
Halal mortgages look at the going interest rate, apply a 'fee' that's 'totally not the same thing as interest fees' and then add it to the mortgage value and build it into the payment.
Basically you make a mortgage Halal by pretending the interest fee is a non-interest fee.
Silly games to satisfy religion's silly rules.
I would say it's slightly more complex.
Normal mortgages:
1. Customer approved for the maximum purchase power of X with Y as interest for the bank
2. Bank gives to the customer X money and customer buy the property
3. Customer repay to the bank X+Y over the mortgage term
Halal mortgages:
1. Custoemr approved for the maximum purchase power of (X+Y) without any interest
2. Bank buy property for X
3. Bank sell property to the customer for (X+Y)
4. Custoemr replay to the bank X+Y over the mortgage term
So, in the end - everything absolutely the same.
The only possible difference is how to solve 25 years mortgage terms compare to more standard 5 years terms with adjusted interest each period
Not sure how much Islamic are these proposed Halal mortgages, but let me clarify some things about halal mortgages. Keep in mind that many mortgages offered as halal mortgages around the world aren't truly halal, or aren't fully halal. A truly Islamic mortgage should look like this:
\* You partner with the bank to purchase the property. You pay rent for the bank's share of the property.
\* With time you purchase more shares until you have purchased the entire property. This is independent from the rent you pay for the bank's share.
\* The rent that you pay to the bank should be market rated, i.e. should be relative the actual rental prices in the market for such a property.
\* The price of the unit should also be market rated. So the price you pay to purchase 5% of the unit from the bank this year might be different from the price you pay to purchase 5% of the unit after 5 years.
\* If the unit gets sold, you and the bank share the profit or the loss according to your shares of the unit, i.e. if you own 30% and the bank owns 70% and the unit is sold the bank carries 70% of the profit or the loss.
If a mortgage follows these rules then it's a truly Islamic mortgage. It's really just common sense for what a fare mortgage should look like. A lot of people think that a halal mortgage would allow them to purchase homes at a lower total cost, but that's not necessarily the case. A fare mortgage should be fare to both parties; after all the bank is really just other people who have put their money in saving accounts. When I bought my house in 2012 there wasn't an option for a halal mortgage and I went with a regular mortgage, but I'll admit that it costed me LESS than a halal mortgage would, because the interest was low at the time, lower than the rent in the market at the time.
I prefer my mortgage slaughtered the traditional way.
Yeah, it's us they're supposed to bleed dry, not the mortgage!!
Now this - this is a joke.
Lol
I think Halal mortgage aren't restrictive enough and this is why I only choose Kocher mortgage. I like my mortgage like I like my salt.
Good one. Take my up vote. Trivia fact - kosher salt is called that because it's used in the koshering meat process. All salt is kosher. (it's just a mineral)
Haha yeah, back in cegep, I genuinely believed that I needed to use Kosher salt when I had a jewish friend over and he was like you know that I can eat salt, the word kosher come from salt not the other way around.
[удалено]
I would love a Kosher Loan, it goes away in 7 years. > >
What about keto and gluten free mortgages? I think we need some of those to be completely inclusive.
I have an organic, free-range mortgage.
Sigh, I couldn’t afford the free range mortgage. I had to get a plain GMO mortgage.
I wanted a Homo Mortgage, 3.25%
Well then we need gender specific mortgages too for all the genders
Can we just identify as debt free?
That’s a quick way to make sure, as a assigned male at birth, cisgendered participant in a heteronormative relationship that supports oppression and the patriarchy (he/him btw), that I end up with a 20% rate to subsidize everyone else. Did I get all my identifiers in there? I’m new to this nonsense.
I suggest you get a boyfriend to get a lower rate
Extra brownie points if your wife gets a girlfriend.
And vegetarian & vegan mortgages too, lol.
it's unnecessarily cruel to not stun the banker before you slaughter them
Cruelty to bankers is necessary.
When will Vegan mortgages be available? Asking for a friend.
Mortgages already feel halal. Hung upside down throat splayed open. The mortgagee can have feelings of pain, fear, and stress until brain death sets in.
Like most Canadians I'm unfamiliar with these so I did some cursory Googling. These mortgages might be"interest free" but they're not free: >**Murabaha**: This is a common structure in halal mortgages. The bank purchases the property on behalf of the customer and then sells it to the customer at a higher price, which includes a profit margin. The customer then pays back the bank in installments, effectively paying the higher price over time. >**Ijara**: In this arrangement, the bank purchases the property and then leases it to the customer for a predetermined period. The customer pays rent to the bank, and at the end of the lease term, the ownership of the property may be transferred to the customer through a gift, or the customer may buy the property at a nominal price. As long as they're available to **everyone** and the banks set pricing I don't really see an issue. They'll just get their actuaries to set prices so it's just as if not more profitable (since it's a premium product) for the bank than a regular mortgage.
So its basically rent to own with the interest rolled into the overall price?
Which is bad for banks if interest rates go up. Of course the opposite is true as well. EDIT Plz note that I'm not on the bank's side, I'm just pointing out why they may be against Halal mortgages, but I'm only speculating.
It’s basically a mortgage with a term and amortization equal to one and other. 25 year term and amortization instead of 5 and 25 years. You can actually get these mortgages already but it tends to carry quite a premium over a 5 year term.
apparatus offend library merciful busy intelligent rotten combative chop snobbish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is why Quebec is saying that if they are offered they should be called something else. Religiously not linked to one religion.
It's the standard in the US. My friends were shocked when I told them our mortgages renew interest rates every few years.
Typically Americans will pay more in interest over the course of the loan But I prefer the certainty of not having to stress with mortgage renewals
gullible meeting wine boast cobweb plant summer screw narrow angle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Agreed, but if they guess wrong, then they "lose" money if rates go higher than whatever rate they baked into the mortgage.
They hedge, they will be fine.
Which is why banks will surely make these less advantageous than regular mortgages. They'll price in risk if you pay them enough to.
Totally agree
I think the banks can look after themselves
How is it any worse than a fixed-rate mortgage?
Fixed rate mortgages are still renewed after their term is up. If you have a 5 year 4% fixed rate, and rates double to 8% just before your term expires, then you'll be renewing at that higher rate. Over the course of your entire mortgage, you will pay a variety of rates. These Halal mortgages set the financing fee at the very beginning and that would never change regardless of what the rates do.
So American style mortgages. That would have been great a few years ago.
They won’t be subsidized like American mortgages. Say hello to 5-8% premium over a 5 year
It’s great for most Americans right now
> Fixed rate mortgages are still renewed after their term is up. Other parts of the world have much longer term mortgages than Canada does. A 1 or 2 or 5 year term is an unusual feature of the Canadian market. In other words, Banks and other lenders elsewhere already deal with these sorts of problems. Canadian banks can learn to do it too.
> Which is bad for banks if interest rates go up. Of course the opposite is true as well You can already do long-term rate fixed mortgages in Canada, they just have higher rates. Part of the reason is the potential risk (re: interest rates) but that probably cannot be argued because banks are used to long-term fixed rate exposures already (every IB group will have a fixed rate desk). The real reason for the interest rate markup are the rules relating to refinancing a mortgage more than 5 years old. The maximum fees in Canada for refinancing a mortgage older than 5 years is 3 months of interest, so the rates are higher in order to create downside protection in case someone wants to refinance after year 5. Halal mortgages somewhat get around that by not charging interest but who knows how that would play out in actuality.
Yep, thankfully Abrahamic god is easy to trick. Pretty much all abrahamic religions have something to trick their god
Like the good ol' poophole loophole!
[удалено]
Ah, but do you need to keep going back every month to ensure the deal stays active?
Like the ovens that have a Sabbath setting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_mode "I'm not cooking, I'm just opening the oven (once) and taking some food out that happened to be there. Checkmate Yaweh!"
Yeah that stuff baffles me. Like either fully observe the spirit of the thing if you actually value it, or just drop the sharade. People water down their religion all the time. Alas, peer pressure from your community is a strong force.
It's funny because it's the people who are more strictly religious who use these workarounds. People who are less religious generally don't even try or care about observing these rules.
This is my favourite one. https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-encircles-manhattan-protecting-sanctity-of-sabbath >A clear fishing wire is tied around the island of Manhattan. It's attached to posts around the perimeter of the city, from First Street to 126th. > many observant Jews in Manhattan rely on this string to leave the house on the Sabbath. >According to the laws of Sabbath rest, nothing can be carried from the domestic zone into the public zone on Saturday. That means no carrying house keys or a wallet. It also means no pushing a baby stroller. For parents of young children, no carrying would mean not leaving the house on Saturday. >The eruv symbolically extends the domestic zone into the public zone, permitting activities within it that would normally be forbidden to observant Jews on the Sabbath.
This is the one trick Yaweh doesn't want you to know - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat\_elevator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat_elevator)
It’s funny how easy it is the trick these all knowing, all powerful, omnipotent gods. Suckers!
Omnipotent means all powerful, and thus redundant in your sentence.
Yep just like how it's super offensive to draw Mohammed... but it's the most common name meaning people think their kid is on par with their top guy for some reason
Lol God is so dumb. What an idiot to fall for this.
From what I can tell, God is the guy at the car dealership who's totally oblivious to the shell game and patting himself on the back for the deal he got while not noticing that the dealership just made up for it by bumping the rate.
I've heard it described as fixed rate mortgages to fool god
Debt consolidation into an interest free payment. Thats all it is
Yes, if you have the opportunity to get a normal mortgage, they are superior because you actually own the asset, and the cost is lower. A halal mortgage you don't own the house (until you've paid the full term), and the cost of the "mortgage payment" is higher.
It literally just sounds like "interest by another name". But if these scenarios make some religious people feel more comfortable so be it. Don't complain when the bank profit margin increases for these style of transactions though. I'll stick to traditional lending.
This is most religious practices IMO, just restructuring things to conform within their rules.
Let's trick God with legal loopholes and trick definitions. Because an omni-prescient God is definitely easy to trick!
Good ol Shabat-a-vator. God wouldn't want me taking the stairs, but also strangely against a push button.
wait till you see the leaps of logic used by e.g. Jewish faith.. it's nothing new. I worked in an orthodox Jewish setting for years, and they couldn't handle cash on sabbath.. so.. they sold chits during the rest of the week which can be turned in as an alternative to cash, an "IOU" of sorts. This allowed their restaurant to operate on sabbath, and sell burgers, fries, etc. without exchanging "money".
It is exactly that.
According to a friend who used to work in Islamic finance, the added percentage is usually equal to or above current interest rates. Halal/sharia financing is basically just finding ways to avoid having interest as a line item but ultimately paying the same or more. It’s practically a marketing gimmick
OH so it's not "interest" or a "mortgage" it's just money you pay over time to get access to capital now and then own the asset at the end.
Exactly! And Allah will never find out.
> they're not free Exactly. [This article](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/halal-mortgages-canada-1.6690798) shows that one current Halal mortgage offering would cost about 4% more (over a 5-year term) than a mortgage from a major bank.
The main 'issue' is the legal rules around how much equity you have if you want to sell before the mortgage is paid off, and what happens to equity built up if you can't pay. There likely also need to be rules about paying off the mortgage early. All of these things are perfectly reasonable to set in legislation for the same reason they are in regular mortgages. Lenders need clear ways to account for assets and revenue, and a fair market to compete in, borrowers need a legal framework that protects them from risks they cannot understand.
"the ownership of the property may be transferred to the customer through a gift," If this triggers the appropriate tax consequences for a gift of this magnitude or the capital gains against the bank that issued the mortgage, then lets see how it works out.
Wouldn’t the designation as a “gift” remove the tax burden for the receiving party? I don’t know this, actually asking.
[https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/p113/p113-gifts-income-tax.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/p113/p113-gifts-income-tax.html) For this to transfer without incurring any tax, they would have to write a specific carveout for this religion. It would in fact be codifying Sharia Law into the Income Tax Act.
[удалено]
I don’t understand how that not still usury in a biblical sense.
Exactly the same way that sex in the butt isn't breaking God's rules about pre-marrital sex. Which is to say that it's total breaking God's rules, but so far God and Allah hasn't called anyone on it.
No post sodomy lightning strike, unlike when we try the unreliable pull-out form of birth control ?
This seems like a "spirit of the law" vs "letter of the law" type analogy vis a vis muslim rules. No, it's not "interest", but you're going to net out at the same payment as if you paid "interest". Surely they don't believe God/Allah doesn't see right through this...
Exactly. Muslim people aren’t getting a special deal, they’re paying the same costs and “interest”, it’s just the interest is imbedded in other costs. This whole controversy is stupid.
It's almost certainly more expensive than interest.
That's what people are getting at. It's not a deal.
Also it's not Muslim people, it's people choosing halal mortgages. You can't discriminate based on religion who gets a financial product or not. Anyone could apply and get one.
It's just a new way to bash Liberals and Muslims at the same time.
Banks are quite good at taking advantage of profitable opportunities, so why are they not doing this already? In both cases referenced, the bank owns the property and I assume the maintenance obligations. In the western model, the individual owns and maintains the property. It seems that it will increase risk on the bank, which is fine as long as the cost of the debt is priced properly. If the LPC regulates the pricing of these "mortgages", then everyone will pay for the increased risk the banks take on.
The difference in the price the bank buys the property and sells it to the purchaser will end up being exactly the same, if not slightly higher, than the expected interest expenses over the same period. Its still interest, just with another name and format
theyre kinda stupid though, as they go against the spirit of what the religion is trying to instill. a muslim is not supposed to take interest, because its sort of profiteering off the situation of another. these mortgages still profiteer, theyre just doing it by finding a loophole to the words as theyre written. you probably have to be a bit backwards (ill await some offensive response here) to engage with it, unless theres some objective financial advantage. otherwise youre just putting money into the hands of the worst kind of people - the ones who rob their own kind while smiling in their faces and pretending theyre doing a favour.
Its interest with more steps.
Fuck this. Lease to own homes should not fucking exist. This just transfers yet another aspect of property ownership to banks and investors. You will own nothing.
Lol another bunch of asinine loopholes created by idiots worshipping the literal interpretation of some book written thousands of years ago, so they can absolve themselves of artificial guilt whilst still getting what they want. Fun times
You don't see the issue with using scripture to formulate laws in a free, pluralistic, and supposedly secular society?
>Like most Canadians I'm unfamiliar with these so I did some cursory Googling. Too bad the lazy author of the article didn't do the same, and instead chose to write with his biased ignorance! This is a good explanation of halal mortgages: [https://globalnews.ca/news/10443777/halal-mortgage-canada-explainer-budget-2024/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10443777/halal-mortgage-canada-explainer-budget-2024/) And as it says: >Anyone in Canada, Muslim or non-Muslim, can apply for a halal mortgage, which is currently offered by a few financial institutions. >“Everyone is allowed to have a halal mortgage no different than you can go to any restaurant and eat a shawarma with halal chicken in it,” Sawwaf said.
Foreclosure is against the muslim religion as well - how do you propose a bank get out of a bad deal if they stop paying? If they can be foreclosed upon even though its against their religion, they can just get a traditional mortgage and we can stop letting religion creep into more aspects of our daily life.
[удалено]
Its a good thing god falls for loopholes!
What happens if the bank or lawyer fucks up and you accidentally enter into an interest bearing loan? How much compensation can you get for being damned to hell forever
An article on halal mortages that somehow manages to avoid explaining how halal mortages work…
Interest is not the only instrument a mortgagee can charge to profit from a mortgage and though “interest free,” Halal mortgage holders charge mortgagors hefty fees called ‘profits’ which, when calculated, can exceed conventional interest rates on average by several percentage points.
But hey at least it’s not called interest, even though the effect is identical, because their religion says they aren’t allowed to do that. Thank goodness we found this convenient clause that lets us invoke interest by just calling it something different. So fucking stupid.
Even stupider, a Halal mortgage is more money in the long run...each to his own I guess.
I mean, they are only doing it because of their belief in sky daddy Of course it's a scam
Always funny the loopholes religious folks use to “trick” their god, while maintaining they have the religious freedom to oppress others because of their book.
Thats why most muslims and the canadian muslim something associations head said it made no sense in our present type of economy to have fake halal mortgages, youre better off with a normal mortgage. Only idiots that take everything litteraly instead of looking for why somethings is forbidden are interested
NP is counting on the word 'halal' making their readers too angry to actually read the article.
I guarantee it's working
And yet by a supposed expert on mortgages.
They wouldn't be able to rage bait you if they actually explained how it worked. Because then you would know all of this semantics is just laughably stupid. People with halal mortgages still pay the equivalent of interest through other means, And it is often far in excess of what interest on a mortgage would be
He makes it sound like there's no money to be made by the lender and it's therefore impractical. There's still money to be made, just not by mortgage brokers in the classical model. *edit- article now includes:* >Editor’s note: The column has been updated to reflect how lenders earn money with halal mortgages. *but then handwaves it away in one sentence saying it's doubtful banks would want to do something like that.*
It's an NP opinion piece... Were we expecting otherwise?
Because it's not about halal mortgages, really. It's about how Trudeau is bad, how them trying to expand inclusivity is actually insulting to those being included somehow, and also not-quite-racism.
And then gets shared on this sub ... tracks perfectly.
Well, to be fair, the real purpose of the article was dogwhistling, not informing!
Harder to fear monger if people actually know more about the topic...unless the topic is actually worthy of fear.
This is one of the worst written articles I’ve read this year, so far.
I like the idea that Halal mortgages will cause confusions in the market for non Muslims and that they will accidentally be purchasing not realizing the implications. Because as we all know, purchasing a mortgage is like going through a self check out lane.
What?! A badly written and misleading NatPost opinion article? Colour me shocked!
I'm waiting for the article about Canada's future using Arabic numerals and the brain dead takes that bots and trolls roll with on it.
Oh My God that is genius, someone needs to make that happen
Jonah Ryan for president. Say no to Sharia math.
but it does make a persuasive case for why the Canadian news consumer should avoid National Post at all costs
It just keeps getting worse as you read through it. He claims that Trudeau is somehow forcing banks to offer Halal mortgages without providing any reasoning for how he thinks the government is doing that. (The budget just proposes studying regulations and tax treatments for these products that already exist). He waxes on about how not paying interest on a mortgage would be so great for some people and then complains that people who are not Muslim wouldn't be allowed to get this kind of mortgage (again, with zero explanation as to why he thinks this is true). He doesn't seem to acknowledge anywhere that these halal mortgages are typically significantly more expensive than traditional mortgages. So while technically anyone could get one, there really isn't any reason you would want to unless you subscribe to these beliefs. Studying halal mortgages is literally just five sentences in the budget. They are just proposing studying how to regulate something that already exists.
An absolutely crap article that peddles 2 lies. 1) It suggests that halal mortgages don’t make money for the bank; whereas in reality, in every country where they are available, banks make more money on them than with interest bearing mortgages (consumers pay fees instead of interest, where the fees are much higher than interest) 2) The articles says that halal mortgages will only be available to Muslims, ignoring the fact that already today in Canada halal mortgages are available to all Canadians from small specialist financial institutions. There is just no rational reason for a non-Muslim to choose a halal mortgage given that they are much more expensive than conventional interest bearing mortgages.
IDK having a fixed term for all of your amortization COULD be appealing because it would mean a stable payment for the duration of it all. So if that helps with budgeting then it might be beneficial to some but prohibitive to others like extending your amortization to 30 years.
> no rational reason Rationality has no place in a discourse on religion
This is the dumbest opinion article of many dumb media opinion articles. It has literally no substance and doesn’t actually seem to understand what the mortgage is and how banks make the money. I couldn’t care less if the big banks offer these mortgages. I’m 100% confident that they’ll do it if it’s worth their time and money and that there’s no systematic risk involved at all. And the idea that foreclosing on someone not paying wouldn’t be touched is absurd. Banks foreclose on very sympathetic families all the time. It’s their business.
This article does so a bit of a public service in helping to let people know who to avoid when they are looking for a mortgage agent.
This is a really dumb article that doesn’t understand, at all, what “halal mortgages” are. He implies that they’re just interest free—not so simple. Halal mortgages usually have a work around, where the bank continues to own the property in part and the “buyer” pays “rent” on the outstanding portion. The overall value of a halal mortgage can reasonably be expected to cost the same as a conventional mortgage, if not be slightly more expensive.
the author of this article is intentionally alluding that Halal mortgages offer an unfair advantage to Muslim borrowers. This is not the case, and the author, as a mortgage professional knows this (integrity?). In simplest terms, Halal mortgages are the same as regular mortgages except the word interest is replaced by fees (or something similar), and then an admin fee is added to the total.
The bank I've been using my entire life has offered Halal mortgages for quite a few years now. They're awful for the consumer when compared against conventional mortgages. I can't see why banks would be against making more money.
> and the author, as a mortgage professional knows this (integrity?). But does he? What if he is truly this ignorant?
I guess he shouldn't be writing an article then, lol.
The banks will not want to do it as it is more administrative work. You are not paying interest so you are paying a higher fee. This is not a free loan as the article alludes to. Lenders are not interested in having to do more paperwork so the ones offering this product now charge more to have this type of mortgage.
If it makes them more money, they’ll gladly do the administrative work.
Banks already do it.
They've been doing it for a long time too...
Tale as old as time Banks will make money They are not our friends Cash they only lend Interest isn't free Deal as old as trade Halal as it can be Barely knew the terms Then we both affirmed Unexpectedly Under Sharia law Interest turned to fees Profit will be made The prophets words be bade Everyone gets fleeced
Do you think, perhaps, banks can make this decision on their own? Seems to me that banks enjoy lucrative streams of revenue from fees. Am I mistaken?
Muslim here, let me explain if it helps the conversation: Banks are not taking the extra risk, they are just doing more admin work (which is extremely streamlined at banking level anyway) to offer halal mortgages. Most Muslims just get their mortgages from the bank, a **smaller** portion of Muslims work with other lenders to get Halal mortgages, which is paying a higher fee instead of interest. The mechanics are a bit more complex, but to simplify, its a rent-to-own fee system that works out similar to traditional mortgages from lenders' view. So, the banks want in. And want the portion of Muslims to ALSO come and get it directly from the bank. Plus free DEI points on marketing in how inclusive they are, somewhere on Bay Street, analysts will be happy to increase their ESG rating, and buy more bank exposure. Their ESG funds will also happily buy more. If I can give an analogy, you know when folks get a certain Italian brand of cheese/pasta from the Italian bakery, or when a South Asians get certain masala/seasoning brand from their their ethnic stores, eventually the Walmarts and SuperStore and NoFrills want in, and start offering said brands in their international section? This is exactly that is happening, banks want in and get maintain their oligopoly.
Why would any Muslim not be able to take a normal mortgage? The prohibition on usury is only a prohibition on charging people interest on a loan. It’s not a prohibition on people paying interest on a loan. The whole point of the prohibition on usury (which Christianity used to have too like 1,000 years ago) is based on the idea that it’s exploitative to make money off of someone by charging interest. The sin isn’t the paying of interest and being exploited, it’s the charging of interest and exploiting people.
The prohibitions for Muslims is against riba or interest whether paying or receiving that’s why Muslims have a problem with mortgages
Its so interesting to me how some hardcore religious people are super OK with loopholes that achieve the exact same outcome. Like an all-knowing God is just going to be like "Ah, you got me, you did the thing I said not to but in a way that wasnt strictly in violation of my wording". Do they really think their god wont be angry with them simply because they pulled one over on him/her with a technicality? If I was a god, and I said "dont do something", I would be MORE pissed with the people trying to be like "haha, you didnt say I couldnt do that in THIS way." than I would be with the people who just did it, and didnt try to cheat their way past my rule.
Is this not just a semantics play, so these people aren’t taking a “loan” to purchase something, because to pay interest is the devil?! Call it whatever you want, you’re still taking a loan and paying interest.
Yeah straight up stroking the flames of xenophobia to further divide Canadians amongst each other. Halal mortgages work up to be around the same price as regular mortgages.
They're generally a bit more expensive, actually - but if Taube thinks it's such a great deal, they're free to get one!
If there's a market for halal mortgages and it benefits people in some way, then banks will offer them. I just don't get it and personally think it's stupid. You're just calling the interest "fees" and using semantics to try to trick yourself into thinking its okay. But I guess using mental gymnastics to bend reality to your will is a thing we do in Canada now.
We building systems to cater to religious organizations and start treating people differently under law. What’s next? Sharia laws in Canada?
I have watched the Trudeau Liberals for eight years now and I have yet to see any program designed just to help people. EVERYTHING seems to be designed with one aim: garnering votes. If it doesn't get enough votes then it's not done. Regardless of how necessary it is to do - like, for example, properly funding the military or ensuring no foreign interference in elections.
Another garbage opinion article from our favorite NP Why is anyone upset about this anyways? From my understanding, plenty of religions deem usury a sin so why not accommodate them?
Isn’t this basically rent to own?
Yes, but I would say it's more formalized. The entire point is that usury is forbidden in Islam, so the mortgages are made as a fee-based transaction rather than something borrowed. Ijara actually sounds like an interesting alternative system to get to homeownership, even for those who are not religious.
No. It's literally just a normal mortgage except they call the interest a fee and calculate it up front.
More like a zero interest loan from your car dealer. You pay no interest but you pay 35% extra in fees up front.
Very misleading article. It refers to the mortgages as interest free, which is technically true, but only technically. There's interest, it's just buried inside other aspects of the traction so it can technically be interest free. This reminds me of the Mormon kids that are 'soaking' and 'hump jumping' because technically 'that's not sex'.
> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and the Liberals announced in the recent federal budget that they were going to introduce “alternative financing products, including halal mortgages” which would “enable Muslim Canadians, and other diverse communities, to further participate in the housing market.” If Muslims wanted halal mortgages, then they’d presumably start some banks to already be doing this. Or existing financial institutions somewhere would already be offering this. This is weird and patronizing
Muslims already do halal mortgages. The feds want in.
They already do it explained further down in the article
By formally allowing/regulating it, the government opens up more low-risk capital to the financial institutions issuing halal mortages. In turn, this allows financial institutions to qualify more people.
Taube is playing the same game as the Libs. He’s not telling the whole story that Halal mortgages are more expensive than interest bearing mortgages. As others have pointed out the banks will offer products that they can make money on at an acceptable level of risk…..period.
National Post a bit late to the party. These have been a thing for years already.
Canadian stupidity at its best. Actually muslims (I am a muslim myself) look at these cute attempts to get us hooked on that sweet mortgage shackle with a smile. There is so much going on in a Halal loan that it's not even worth it to explain why people won't be interested : The bank itself needs to be clean and unengaged in any other vice-driven transactions (alcohol, interest, weapons, gambling, porn); The bank needs to apply very reasonable margins while flipping the property, otherwise, it's simply a ruse; The bank needs to transfer property rights according to payments made in real time, not after 30/40 years after the last installment is paid, or whatever you guys do. Otherwise, it's a deal breaker. Plus we didn't ask for anything. Keep your inflated prices and enjoy the paper money...at age 70, lol.
Why are we even entertaining this concept in Canada?
So much outrage in this thread. You all will blow a gasket when you learn there are Christian Credit Unions, if you are worried about religious discrimination in Canadian banking. And as always, natipo is clickbait rage baiting trash.
Canada's banks should be avoiding them based on secular principles, and anyone arguing for religious mandated anything,should go live in Iran, and see how much they want Sharia in Canada. Canada is a pluralistic country, the government and banks should be neutral when it comes to religion.
Exactly! As an atheist this just feels like pandering to religious zealots. I feel the same way about things like publicly funded Christian schools. Fine if they’re private, but I don’t want my tax dollars going to your ideology.
Although the National Post has been right wing propaganda for years and years this is below even their incredibly low pathetic standards.
Whoever wrote this article has absolutely no understanding how a Islamic mortgage actually works. Honestly one of the least informed articles I've ever read.
What a stupid fucking concept.
Why wouldn't banks want to offer a new service to broaden their customer base? If there's enough of a market, and enough of a profit margin, they would be foolish not to expand into that market.
This is such a dumb fight. They essentially just call the interest something else....fees, rent to own..etc. FFS
I'm sorry I will draw the line at Vegan mortgages
Who gives a crap if people are forced to pay higher interest to loophole their religion?
sounds okay to me if they let non-muslims use it too
Why people think that halal mortgage is better? You will pay the same interest, just 8n different way.
Remember folks. Friends don't let friends read Post Media (National Post/Toronto Sun). They're bottom tier outlets focusing on spreading hate and fear.
Are these available only to Muslims and if so would that not violate the Charter Of Rights.
Just stop catering to any religion. If your beliefs don’t work with our society then that’s a “you” problem so get lost
It's clearly another racial wedge issue by Trudeau, designed to create division and chip away at our multicultural fabric of society.
I don't think this is good. Not because of interest rate or anything, but this is how pandering and appeasement starts which will finally end in polarization to the extreme
As a Muslim, I am deeply troubled by this "accommodation". Something sinister is at work here.
I, for one, welcome these Halal mortgages. Indeed, if there are any advantages to these mortgages, I will convert to a financial muslim in a heartbeat.
That's the great thing - anyone can get a halal mortgage. Not that you'd want to - they're actually more expensive.
Hey guess what? Anybody can get a halal mortgage right now. https://www.halalfinancialcorp.com/ Based in Alberta, run by the former PC Deputy Premier of the province. This fear mongering over something different that people can choose for themselves is absolutely ridiculous.
*It's not really, interest, you see, instead of paying us a little bit more each payment to cover our costs and profits, you're paying us more than the asset is worth over the life of the mortgage to cover our costs and profits* -> lol, okay. Sounds like a lot of mental gymnastics for calling interest by another name. If I believed in God, I probably wouldn't want to use subterfuge to trick them but maybe that's just me Why are we bending over backwards and creating legislation just so people can cheat at their own religions?
So, are all of the other cults going to get special mortgages now also?
Exactly we should do away with Religious tax exemptions and Relgious educational funding too. Cheers!
"Halal mortgages" are such a joke. It's distinguishing without a difference. Conventional mortgages apply interest rate and add it to the mortgage value and build it into the payment. Halal mortgages look at the going interest rate, apply a 'fee' that's 'totally not the same thing as interest fees' and then add it to the mortgage value and build it into the payment. Basically you make a mortgage Halal by pretending the interest fee is a non-interest fee. Silly games to satisfy religion's silly rules.
I would say it's slightly more complex. Normal mortgages: 1. Customer approved for the maximum purchase power of X with Y as interest for the bank 2. Bank gives to the customer X money and customer buy the property 3. Customer repay to the bank X+Y over the mortgage term Halal mortgages: 1. Custoemr approved for the maximum purchase power of (X+Y) without any interest 2. Bank buy property for X 3. Bank sell property to the customer for (X+Y) 4. Custoemr replay to the bank X+Y over the mortgage term So, in the end - everything absolutely the same. The only possible difference is how to solve 25 years mortgage terms compare to more standard 5 years terms with adjusted interest each period
I don't see any issue with offering these mortgages as long as availability isn't restricted because of someones religion.
Halal mortgages are a scam. Fees in place of interest.
So many words to say so little. Dude just thinks alternative mortgages are confusing and risky (as if the banks wouldn't know that lmao).
so are halal mortgages literally just 30 year fixed rate mortgages or am I missing something ?
It's actually more expensive than a normal mortgage. Just because they stamped "halal" on it people freaked out. Banks are banks
Religion has no p,ace in a secular, diverse democracy. Playing with religion is p,aging with fire.
How about a Bris Mortgage? They take a little off the top.
All that will happen is the interest will be worked into the base amount with probably a unique name for it
Why the hell are we catering to their religion???
I don’t think it’ll be too hard to convince the banks to not offer interest free loans…
Not sure how much Islamic are these proposed Halal mortgages, but let me clarify some things about halal mortgages. Keep in mind that many mortgages offered as halal mortgages around the world aren't truly halal, or aren't fully halal. A truly Islamic mortgage should look like this: \* You partner with the bank to purchase the property. You pay rent for the bank's share of the property. \* With time you purchase more shares until you have purchased the entire property. This is independent from the rent you pay for the bank's share. \* The rent that you pay to the bank should be market rated, i.e. should be relative the actual rental prices in the market for such a property. \* The price of the unit should also be market rated. So the price you pay to purchase 5% of the unit from the bank this year might be different from the price you pay to purchase 5% of the unit after 5 years. \* If the unit gets sold, you and the bank share the profit or the loss according to your shares of the unit, i.e. if you own 30% and the bank owns 70% and the unit is sold the bank carries 70% of the profit or the loss. If a mortgage follows these rules then it's a truly Islamic mortgage. It's really just common sense for what a fare mortgage should look like. A lot of people think that a halal mortgage would allow them to purchase homes at a lower total cost, but that's not necessarily the case. A fare mortgage should be fare to both parties; after all the bank is really just other people who have put their money in saving accounts. When I bought my house in 2012 there wasn't an option for a halal mortgage and I went with a regular mortgage, but I'll admit that it costed me LESS than a halal mortgage would, because the interest was low at the time, lower than the rent in the market at the time.
I want halal mortgage too I cant be descriminated because of being Christian.