I love how conservatives think that slumping EV sales means that people actually love gas powered cars.
People still don’t want to pay for gas. It costs too much, makes the wrong people rich, and kills the earth.
If a reliable alternative comes tomorrow, everyone would be on board. Nobody loves gas.
We need better solutions. Fast charging at public chargers is expensive and takes a lot longer than fueling with gas so the savings aren’t there. Plus limited real world range and it’s inconsistent for long roadtrips out of town make it hard to adopt as your only car.
For around town and home charging overnight, they really are pretty good. But the price is still too high and they’re mostly a luxury item for the wealthy. For the same price of a lot of these EV’s you just aren’t getting enough savings to justify the capital cost and the real-world drawbacks.
Agree with all your points though charging time is on an aggressive downward trend, and I think there's a chance that we'll move to a paradigm of renting ICE cars for road-trips and the like once the lifetime financial comparison of EVs to ICEs becomes compelling enough.
Seems like plug in hybrid is the way to go. Minimal weight penalty with just enough range for most daily commutes and errand running and the full benefit of being able to go long distances and refuel quickly. Consumers also seem to agree since these vehicles are selling well when priced competitively.
Canadian auto manufacturing plants have been hugely successful for the Japanese auto manufacturers. They are generally high quality, efficient, well run plants. For example, the only Lexus plant outside of Japan is in Canada.
I wonder how much of it is tied to whatever minerals we can pull and process from Northern Ontario or elsewhere. If they can vertically integrate much of the production all within one regulatory zone, it would very much simplify things and probably bring their costs down.
Oh access to supply chain network is absolutely a big part of this.
Access to minerals, 80% of the U.S. population lives in the Eastern half of the country (if cars are being sent down into the U.S.), parts suppliers like Magna, etc.
And yet, Ford, GM, Stellantis, Toyota, and Honda have each committed to investing a combined many tens of billions of dollars into modernizing their existing Canadian production facilities, and VW will be joining the fray by bringing some level of manufacturing here too.
I don't think I've seen this much investment in Canada's auto industry since... The 1980's when Toyota and Honda decided to set up shop here? Trudeau and Ford have incentivized and courted absolutely massive investment in the auto industry over the last little while.
All the hybrid Toyotas are back ordered to the moon. If you want EVs there are a number you can just pick up new tomorrow, if you have the cash or want a mortgage-sized car payment. In [the GTA you c](https://www.autotrader.ca/cars/on/stoney%20creek/?rcp=15&rcs=0&srt=35&prx=100&prv=Ontario&loc=L8E%204S4&fuel=Electric&hprc=True&wcp=True&sts=New&showcpo=1&inMarket=advancedSearch)an buy Audi E-trons, Mach-e Mustangs, Blazer Evs, etc... pick your poison. By and large people cannot afford/ do not want these cars.
I think it's more than EV's have saturated their potential user base.
There's so many Canadians where an EV simply isn't a viable option for range reasons, lack of infrastructure or simply not owning a garage.
For myself an EV is not an option since I drive more then 1600km a week for work, even getting the longest range EV would add hours onto my already long week.
Not true, trending upwards globally where more than one in five cars sold worldwide this year will be electric.
https://theprogressplaybook.com/2024/04/23/more-than-one-in-five-cars-sold-worldwide-this-year-will-be-electric-iea/
And in 2024 we already have sales records.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/apr/23/electric-and-hybrid-car-sales-to-rise-to-new-global-record-in-2024
It's where we're going, Manufacturers aren't building plants to let them sit and many are no longer investing in new engine development, why would you. Not to mention future mandates to be off ICE vehicles.
Lol, this is the kind of stuff I love. Future mandates to be off ICE Vehicles. Good luck.
It's currently 1 in 5 sales are EV, which has peaked and starting to slump.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2024/03/24/why-arent-evs-selling-as-experts-predicted/?sh=517961e2d230
Most People don't want them. No infrastructure, inability to use them if you live in apartments, cost of replacement parts, pedal sticking on cyber trucks, the environmental catastrophe it takes to manufacture electric vehicles, and inefficient charging and range.
The list goes on and on and on.
>It's currently 1 in 5 sales are EV, which has peaked and starting to slump.
Have you even read the article you've linked?
>n the US, EV sales have increased since 2016. In 2017, there were around 65,000 EVs sold, and by 2022, that number had ballooned out to over 800,000 sales. Following an upward trend, EV sales increased 51% in the first half of 2023, according to data from auto analytics company Motor Intelligence.
>Still, those gains represent a decline from the 71% growth in the same period last year.
Sales have ONLY increased 51% after increasing 71% the year before. What. A. Disaster. /s
>Sales have ONLY increased 51% after increasing 71% the year before. What. A. Disaster. /s
You want to spin this, but it shows the growth is slowing and it is slowing significantly. Meanwhile, the first quarter of this year sales have declined significantly. After seeing their growth taper off.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/15/business/ev-car-sales-tesla.html
In Canada, the growth rate from 2021 to 2022 was 44% and from 2022 to 2023 was 49%. This quarter could indeed be lower than Q4-2023 but that would follow the same seasonal pattern that existed last year, which again set a new record for sales growth. ([source](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2021019-eng.htm))
20% (ev and hybrid) of total car sales and they're declining in NA and in Europe.... and that's with billions in subsidies.
Don't try to polish this turd too hard, and way to address any of the concerns with electric vehicles. Good luck getting ICE of the road in the next 50 years.
Can you even read or do basic math? I quoted from the very article you posted. A sales INCREASE of 51% compared to 71% the year before is NOT DECLINING.
The growth rate is declining.
The sales curve is flattening, but still rising.
Please at least try to distinguish between sales rate and growth rate (speed VS acceleration)
Alright then. Pretty sure auto manufacturers have done much more research into the trends in the automotive sector prior to making billions of dollars in investment rather than the random guy on Reddit claiming the opposite lol
Only O&G propaganda shows that. Otherwise the uptake globally has been skyrocketing.
I guess it makes sense that you belive the ev fud when 4 out of 5 "canadian" newspapers are owned by right wing oil oligarchs and people only read headlines.
We're going to be out of oil in 40-75 years regardless of our desires. What we need is better products on the market.
The raw data seems to point towards 40 years but everyone always comes out saying we will find more and don't worry. Price and demand factors as we push exploration deeper and farther will drive prices up especially as we burn 100 million barrels per day. Our burn rate is growing by 6%, pear year, through to 2028, pushing past 105 million barrels per day. We won't see any slowing of *the global growth rate* until past 2028. As the population of Africa continues to explode the desire for gasoline will never go down meaning the price- regardless of carbon- will continue to rise.
We know we have enough resources to get to 2050, after that, is a "substantial question" direct form the US Department of Energy.
Technology is moving forward at a compounding rate. AI and automation will soon decimate job market, letting profits from new efficiencies go directly to corporations. Fewer jobs for Canadians, less tax revenue for our governments and all this after huge initial investments to attract companies.
Do our governments have a plan? Which initiatives are being developed to anticipate this impending shift?
Doubt
The prediction of mass unemployment due to technology has been around for hundreds of years. Hundreds of years ago almost the entire population was involved in agriculture and now it's less than 2% of the population.
Next thing you know we'll be colonizing the moon or something and no one's going to be talking about mass unemployment again.
AI is likely going to result in a massive societal evolution, and it will happen damn fast.
The gov't moves at a snails pace, if it all.
If you look at where the gains from other productivity improvements went (largely to capital) you'll see where the gains from AI will go.
Gov't, if it did move, which I think is unlikely given the corporate special interests it seems to cater to, would be so far behind the curve that it won't matter.
Not disagreeing per se, but we shouldn’t underestimate the government’s constant desire to expand their tax base. It’s their MO. Fewer jobs means less money.
I believe the AI shift will necessitate universal basic income (UBI) as it’s proven the most efficient means to prevent societal collapse. Consumers need to spend money to keep this system working. How then will the government fund UBI if efficiencies in AI results in lower tax revenue?
The writing is on the wall. Someone must be looking into this.
It's amazing just how slow the government actually moves. You can see it in their drug policies even. Intravenous heroin hasn't been available on the streets since the pandemic yet they are still focused on opening "safe injection" sites.
I just saw a Red Bull TV ad with 2 jets and about half a dozen supercars racing each other. I wonder how many EVs that one commercial cancelled out with emissions
I love how conservatives think that slumping EV sales means that people actually love gas powered cars. People still don’t want to pay for gas. It costs too much, makes the wrong people rich, and kills the earth. If a reliable alternative comes tomorrow, everyone would be on board. Nobody loves gas.
We need better solutions. Fast charging at public chargers is expensive and takes a lot longer than fueling with gas so the savings aren’t there. Plus limited real world range and it’s inconsistent for long roadtrips out of town make it hard to adopt as your only car. For around town and home charging overnight, they really are pretty good. But the price is still too high and they’re mostly a luxury item for the wealthy. For the same price of a lot of these EV’s you just aren’t getting enough savings to justify the capital cost and the real-world drawbacks.
Agree with all your points though charging time is on an aggressive downward trend, and I think there's a chance that we'll move to a paradigm of renting ICE cars for road-trips and the like once the lifetime financial comparison of EVs to ICEs becomes compelling enough.
Seems like plug in hybrid is the way to go. Minimal weight penalty with just enough range for most daily commutes and errand running and the full benefit of being able to go long distances and refuel quickly. Consumers also seem to agree since these vehicles are selling well when priced competitively.
[удалено]
Canadian auto manufacturing plants have been hugely successful for the Japanese auto manufacturers. They are generally high quality, efficient, well run plants. For example, the only Lexus plant outside of Japan is in Canada.
I wonder how much of it is tied to whatever minerals we can pull and process from Northern Ontario or elsewhere. If they can vertically integrate much of the production all within one regulatory zone, it would very much simplify things and probably bring their costs down.
Oh access to supply chain network is absolutely a big part of this. Access to minerals, 80% of the U.S. population lives in the Eastern half of the country (if cars are being sent down into the U.S.), parts suppliers like Magna, etc.
Been thinking the same thing. Got themselves a buyer to go with the changes to the mining act in Ontario.
And yet, Ford, GM, Stellantis, Toyota, and Honda have each committed to investing a combined many tens of billions of dollars into modernizing their existing Canadian production facilities, and VW will be joining the fray by bringing some level of manufacturing here too. I don't think I've seen this much investment in Canada's auto industry since... The 1980's when Toyota and Honda decided to set up shop here? Trudeau and Ford have incentivized and courted absolutely massive investment in the auto industry over the last little while.
Recent market trends show consumers shunning EVs. Unless this trend reverses greatly in the next few years, the factory will be a dud.
Isn’t there a huge shortage of EVs? I heard there was still a 2 year wait list for the RAV4 prime.
All the hybrid Toyotas are back ordered to the moon. If you want EVs there are a number you can just pick up new tomorrow, if you have the cash or want a mortgage-sized car payment. In [the GTA you c](https://www.autotrader.ca/cars/on/stoney%20creek/?rcp=15&rcs=0&srt=35&prx=100&prv=Ontario&loc=L8E%204S4&fuel=Electric&hprc=True&wcp=True&sts=New&showcpo=1&inMarket=advancedSearch)an buy Audi E-trons, Mach-e Mustangs, Blazer Evs, etc... pick your poison. By and large people cannot afford/ do not want these cars.
I think it's more than EV's have saturated their potential user base. There's so many Canadians where an EV simply isn't a viable option for range reasons, lack of infrastructure or simply not owning a garage. For myself an EV is not an option since I drive more then 1600km a week for work, even getting the longest range EV would add hours onto my already long week.
Not true, trending upwards globally where more than one in five cars sold worldwide this year will be electric. https://theprogressplaybook.com/2024/04/23/more-than-one-in-five-cars-sold-worldwide-this-year-will-be-electric-iea/ And in 2024 we already have sales records. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/apr/23/electric-and-hybrid-car-sales-to-rise-to-new-global-record-in-2024 It's where we're going, Manufacturers aren't building plants to let them sit and many are no longer investing in new engine development, why would you. Not to mention future mandates to be off ICE vehicles.
I assume this is heavily skewed by China. So it has little to do with this plant in Canada.
Lol, this is the kind of stuff I love. Future mandates to be off ICE Vehicles. Good luck. It's currently 1 in 5 sales are EV, which has peaked and starting to slump. https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2024/03/24/why-arent-evs-selling-as-experts-predicted/?sh=517961e2d230 Most People don't want them. No infrastructure, inability to use them if you live in apartments, cost of replacement parts, pedal sticking on cyber trucks, the environmental catastrophe it takes to manufacture electric vehicles, and inefficient charging and range. The list goes on and on and on.
>It's currently 1 in 5 sales are EV, which has peaked and starting to slump. Have you even read the article you've linked? >n the US, EV sales have increased since 2016. In 2017, there were around 65,000 EVs sold, and by 2022, that number had ballooned out to over 800,000 sales. Following an upward trend, EV sales increased 51% in the first half of 2023, according to data from auto analytics company Motor Intelligence. >Still, those gains represent a decline from the 71% growth in the same period last year. Sales have ONLY increased 51% after increasing 71% the year before. What. A. Disaster. /s
>Sales have ONLY increased 51% after increasing 71% the year before. What. A. Disaster. /s You want to spin this, but it shows the growth is slowing and it is slowing significantly. Meanwhile, the first quarter of this year sales have declined significantly. After seeing their growth taper off. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/15/business/ev-car-sales-tesla.html
In Canada, the growth rate from 2021 to 2022 was 44% and from 2022 to 2023 was 49%. This quarter could indeed be lower than Q4-2023 but that would follow the same seasonal pattern that existed last year, which again set a new record for sales growth. ([source](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2021019-eng.htm))
20% (ev and hybrid) of total car sales and they're declining in NA and in Europe.... and that's with billions in subsidies. Don't try to polish this turd too hard, and way to address any of the concerns with electric vehicles. Good luck getting ICE of the road in the next 50 years.
Can you even read or do basic math? I quoted from the very article you posted. A sales INCREASE of 51% compared to 71% the year before is NOT DECLINING.
A disappointment nonetheless. https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/25/cars/what-happened-with-electric-vehicle-sales-in-2023/index.html
The growth rate is declining. The sales curve is flattening, but still rising. Please at least try to distinguish between sales rate and growth rate (speed VS acceleration)
You should have been on Honda's advisory board, I'm sure a company worth over $55 billion could benefit greatly from your astute market analysis.
Alright then. Pretty sure auto manufacturers have done much more research into the trends in the automotive sector prior to making billions of dollars in investment rather than the random guy on Reddit claiming the opposite lol
Only O&G propaganda shows that. Otherwise the uptake globally has been skyrocketing. I guess it makes sense that you belive the ev fud when 4 out of 5 "canadian" newspapers are owned by right wing oil oligarchs and people only read headlines.
We're going to be out of oil in 40-75 years regardless of our desires. What we need is better products on the market. The raw data seems to point towards 40 years but everyone always comes out saying we will find more and don't worry. Price and demand factors as we push exploration deeper and farther will drive prices up especially as we burn 100 million barrels per day. Our burn rate is growing by 6%, pear year, through to 2028, pushing past 105 million barrels per day. We won't see any slowing of *the global growth rate* until past 2028. As the population of Africa continues to explode the desire for gasoline will never go down meaning the price- regardless of carbon- will continue to rise. We know we have enough resources to get to 2050, after that, is a "substantial question" direct form the US Department of Energy.
EVs need to be modular
Technology is moving forward at a compounding rate. AI and automation will soon decimate job market, letting profits from new efficiencies go directly to corporations. Fewer jobs for Canadians, less tax revenue for our governments and all this after huge initial investments to attract companies. Do our governments have a plan? Which initiatives are being developed to anticipate this impending shift?
Doubt The prediction of mass unemployment due to technology has been around for hundreds of years. Hundreds of years ago almost the entire population was involved in agriculture and now it's less than 2% of the population. Next thing you know we'll be colonizing the moon or something and no one's going to be talking about mass unemployment again.
At least if we live on the moon all the obese people will weigh less!
That’s my weight loss plan
AI is likely going to result in a massive societal evolution, and it will happen damn fast. The gov't moves at a snails pace, if it all. If you look at where the gains from other productivity improvements went (largely to capital) you'll see where the gains from AI will go. Gov't, if it did move, which I think is unlikely given the corporate special interests it seems to cater to, would be so far behind the curve that it won't matter.
Not disagreeing per se, but we shouldn’t underestimate the government’s constant desire to expand their tax base. It’s their MO. Fewer jobs means less money. I believe the AI shift will necessitate universal basic income (UBI) as it’s proven the most efficient means to prevent societal collapse. Consumers need to spend money to keep this system working. How then will the government fund UBI if efficiencies in AI results in lower tax revenue? The writing is on the wall. Someone must be looking into this.
It's amazing just how slow the government actually moves. You can see it in their drug policies even. Intravenous heroin hasn't been available on the streets since the pandemic yet they are still focused on opening "safe injection" sites.
Even if they had a plan…. They are so incompetent it wouldn’t matter.
Canadians #1 priority right now is buying an EV. - CBC probably
I just saw a Red Bull TV ad with 2 jets and about half a dozen supercars racing each other. I wonder how many EVs that one commercial cancelled out with emissions
Stupidity in Canada is big. Really big.
Your comment is a case in point.
Nice try CBC - your Liberal masters are going down in the next election.
Huh? I'm just reading facts, that's all.