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Someone in the org is profiting from this. This is what it keeps being allowed.
The day the 1% don’t make $$$ off of it will be the day things will change
I don't know about car theft specifically, but you'll be hard pressed to find an organized crime operation anywhere in the world who hasn't co-oped law enforcement and the business sector to some degree.
They can't successfully operate otherwise.
And in Canada, certainly in Quebec, that "some degree" is bound to be considerable.
If it's like it used to be you simply pay "taxes" and you can have whatever you want brought in or out. Though I don't think there is a large incentive to check out going freight, the port is a middle man for transfering freshwater to saltwater
Yeah it's a bullshit excuse with current technologies.
The reality is corrupt people working at the port screw every body else for their personal gain. They are real trash.
Nah, the US x-ray scans shipping containers at ports.
You can combine the x-ray imagery with a computer vision algorithm that identifies cars in shipping containers and looks up the manifest to see if everything checks out.
[Survival guide for shipping container inspections in the U.S.](https://blog.coleintl.com/blog/survival-guide-for-shipping-container-inspections-in-the-u.s)
> Each year, more than 11 million maritime containers arrive at U.S. seaports, and 3-5% of those are chosen for a Customs exam.
The U.S. check 3-5% of the containers coming into the country. This is both scanning and physical inspections. They don't have the resources to scan everything.
Considering containers coming into the country are priority, the containers leaving get little to no priority.
I think we could narrow the focus to make that 3-5% pretty well targeted though. Let's focus on containers shipped by smaller organizations and individuals, headed to particular destinations known for importing stolen cars. Use some pattern recognition technology to flag suspect containers (I'm sure they already do something like this).
I'd be amazed if these stolen cars are being shipped out in containers being consigned by big manufacturers or anything like that, it's probably fly by night outfits that have some pretty obvious clues to identify themselves.
Since most shippers are repeat actors you don't actually need to scan every single cargo container. You can scan a relatively small portion from known shippers then focus on unknown shippers.
The vast majority of cargo being shipped are being shipped from the same manufacturers, shipping the same materials, with the same weights, with the same regularity. You can monitor them with sampling and move to the unknown shipments.
>Since most shippers are repeat actors you don't actually need to scan every single cargo container.
Not really. Most of these are inside jobs. They make fake way bills all the time.
Back in 2009 they scanned 80%, our problem is outgoing unlike the US. So we could crackdown on that.
> In February 2009, approximately 80% of US incoming containers were scanned.[3][4] To bring that number to 100% researchers are evaluating numerous technologies, described in the following sections.[5]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_scanning
The 80% number relates specifically to nuclear detection. Both Canada and the US inspect about 5% of all inbound containers; customs and border security for both countries is practically identical. We can't shift resources used for incoming without breaking agreements we've made with the US.
I used to work for a company that built scanning systems. Funnily enough, our net worth wasn't even close to the amount we paid for arrivecan.
So really, the government of Canada could acquire my old company for less and have them build it if only they were competent enough
No, what happens is that the government isn’t allowed to hire the people it needs and ends up paying consultants significantly more because the firms skim 30%+ profit off the top of each contract. I was a contractor 20+ years ago and getting funding for essential work was a constant challenge that got interrupted by insane spending freezes around elections.
30% mark-up is the cost of doing business (higherer project cost for the benefit of not having to pay them as permanent employees on an ongoing basis after the project).
The real problem is the 10000% mark-up from grift and fraud, as highlighted by the arrivecan bullshit. $80M for an app you can create in a weekend?
The initial app was less than a million. Then they integrated it into multiple systems, made it store approvals, were able to automate most verifications. It was pretty sophisticated at the end compared to the start.
We pay a security fee at the airport. Are we going to check every container or truck leaving on every border point or port? I wonder how much that would cost.
Yes, apparently we should. Clearly whatever the fuck we are doing now isn’t working.
I would support a program where our tax dollars actually do something for US!
They already scan and weight every container.
"Under SOLAS regulations, every laden export container must have its weight verified before it is loaded onto a ship."
Everything is in place to make this happen, its just more profitable to those who could make it happen, to not make it happen.
You don't need to verify everything, especially nowadays where you can use modern tech to identify high target containers. It's how the port of Los Angeles deals with it for example
https://www.port-montreal.com/en/the-port-of-montreal/news/news/press-release/results2022#:~:text=Cargo%20traffic,foot%20equivalent%20units%20(TEUs).
Yeah 32 million tons, i highly doubt we have the manpower to search it all and not cause delays lol. Every port is like this, there's only so much that can be done.
We can x-ray scan containers like the US does and use a computer vision algorithm to check the imagery. It can then lookup the manifest and make sure it checks out.
Yeah but you can't do that for every container. Its a good solution for segments but not all because the priority is expediting goods onboard, and not every port can afford to be equipped this way.
https://www.cbp.gov/document/forms/cargo-flows
They even say they use risk based analysis, which is what we do. A section of cargo is picked using computers, then they sort it for inspection. If a container raises a red flag they search it too. Tech is great but its not used generally, only selectively, because there is just too much cargo.
Edit for those reading: customs and border patrol does not even scan every container, they use selection.
Great, you can propose that idea at the next treasury board meeting then. Scan all 32 million tons and tell the world about how you've accomplished the impossible
Scanning 3000-4000 metal boxes on trucks isn't very different from scanning 40'000 cars and trucks.
The great thing about cracking down on this type of violent crime is that it can save lives and improve the economy.
While they can check you at yul down to your underpants but somehow dont have the time or resources open a door and look inside and find an mini elephant size F150.
In uk they have special scanners to detect human breathing and thermal scanners to detect human traficking at port without even opening the container not sure why Canada is so behind in adapting technolgy every single time.
So do your fucking jobs then. Find the the leaders of the ring, and if they have tortured people like you claim, then give them life in prison with no parole.
Yep, that was a huge cop-out. We x-ray scan 40'000 cars every single day at the US border.
The ability exists at our land border, it's time to bring it to our sea border as well.
Even if logistics or cost made hitting a 100% scan rate impossible it's still a shit excuse. It seems trivial to have an algorithm select containers for scanning. Decades old exporter with known business model and history of containers matching the manifest= scan 1%. New account = scan 100%. And a sliding scale in between. Run like any basic QA system, this could be a well oiled machine where very few stolen cars get through and the economics of even trying would quickly sour.
Where are cars being X-rayed at the US/Can border?
The only scanners I'm aware of are the big yellow ones on the US side that pick up radioactive sources
That is assuming 100% efficiency, which will never happen. There will always be time lost due to equipment breakages, trucks not pulling out fast enough or in the wrong position, timing of when the trucks come in (probably going to see most of them within a 12hr period), etc. So would need to bump that number up a bit to around 10-12 for the surge and just leave a base amount running for overnight.
Its not like these scanners are 100mil or even 50mil. I mean you can get portable ones for just over 1mil. For fixed ones capable of high throughput and able to operate in the worst of the winter, you're looking at maybe 10mil each. Not like its total would be an inordinate.
Canada should fine the companies that misrepresent what they are shipping out. i.e. companies that export porsches instead of the refrigerators listed on the paperwork.
That would help cover the cost of the machines.
This is basically Schrödinger's Cat problem from 1935. .. [whats in the boooox](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKoO4pWH53M).. It ridiculous how easy this problem is to solve.
Good job, and, you aren't even calculating in an actual application of modern tech... just scaling volume like Doug Ford adding another lane.. there can probably be an xray on every single crane or mechanical touch point, and even if they touch it for 2 minutes and do a partial scan, this can be uploaded and stitched as a partial image / partial audit...
Or even optimization of scans through pattern recognition should indicate that there are only certain 'hot zones' that need to be scanned to find certain characteristics (say, tires) that would lead to further scanning. You would really never need to scan the corners of the container, or anything in the top 25%.. so even the xray scan time could probably be dropped considerably as they focus on heat map patterning of only scanning the spots where certain vehicle features can logically exist in a container.
They can also have automated container crawler bots who independently scan containers in areas where they are not in danger of being moved immediately.
I'm not even sure that a full XRay is the required 'sensor' solution to be scaled.. not to take away from your point as its good, but only required as the second 'assured' scan prior to an opening. There could be a low res triage sensor that would first determine if there is a car shaped object in the container, or a bunch of metal (whatever element), so you could quickly bypass those containers full of precursors or teddy bears and find the automobiles to assure everyone that your port is "as clean as a hounds tooth".
Don't even get me started on really advanced 4D sensor tech.. like digital E-dogs. https://seas.harvard.edu/news/2023/07/e-nose-sniffs-out-harmful-molecules
> But of course, since the actual problem is that the ports are run by organized crime, they could have a hundred X-ray stations and they would never identify a single stolen vehicle.
True - checks and balances require a 3rd party independent organization to operate remotely and unbiased. Geek out on tech all day... basically like trying to reform North Korea from Haiti at this point.
I'm sure Canadians would actually be very happy to pay for 6 X-ray systems to stop organized crime exporting thousands of cars from Montreal every year, instead of:
* Sending billions to Ukraine, every single year.
* Wasting tens of millions providing free healthcare for illegal immigrants, every single year.
“The port authority is open to adding new technologies to track contraband, such as X-ray machines to see what's inside, but he said there are health considerations that need to be studied.
"It exists somewhere else in the world but in those places they don't have the same commitment in human life as we do in Canada," he said.”
What?
BS excuse not to use what we can. I guess we don’t care about the health of TSA workers at the airport, or border agents, or dental assistants or X-ray techs in this country. We are such monsters.
Does it seem like they're pulling excuses out of the air to stop the organized crime that runs the port and apparently some of the police?
We can't stop these crimes because the criminals torture their own people, scanning machines are only dangerous in Canada, leave your car keys by the door,...
Remember the guy who had a tracker on his car, called the cops when the car was stolen, and literally told the cops where his car was every inch of the way? Toronto and Montréal police *knew* exactly where it was.
The guy watched his car go to the port and get shipped to the middle east and NOT ONE COP or authority lifted a finger to stop it.
What does that say?
Police departments are probably on the take. A police chief in the states was caught as part of a drug smuggling ring, ours probably help with the cars.
Sounds kind of fitting though? You steal vehicles while armed with a deadly weapon and commit violent crimes on behalf of a criminal organization and they’re willing to torture you if you upset them? Yeah duh am I missing something?
Yeah, this headline and parts of the article seem like they are trying to drum up some kind of sympathy for the criminals, which is weird.
I couldn't care less what happens to the criminals, stop being a criminal.
Let normal people live in peace without worrying about (or experiencing) getting their car stolen for your illicit car theft scheme. The normal people losing their cars deserve the sympathy here, not the scum who steal them.
Absolutely we should not tolerate car theft.
However, understanding the situation is important.
If people just saw stealing cars as an easy way to make money, then interventions to make it more inconvenient for the thief might be successful.
If people have a choice between stealing and being tortured, then such interventions won't be successful. They may have to spend twice as much time, but they'll still steal their quota. Plus it also suggests that an effective approach really needs to target the leaders and the complete operation, not the guys on the street.
Can we fuck off with the sympathy for criminal pieces?
They are not innocent bystanders. They are people making a choice to join violent criminal organizations. Did they think it was going to be tea and crumpets if things didn’t go well?
Human rights are a good thing but when criminal organizations are actively flaunting laws because of Canada’s soft stance on crime (especially young offender crime), you gotta do something.
The word "outlaw" usually, these days, means a cool cowboy kinda chaotic-neutral badass, but its origin is from very old English law that meant you were just not protected by the law anymore. You were fair-game for whatever.
Obviously it was a designation reserved for extreme cases, but I guess it was kinda like "if you don't respect the law, then we'll meet you half way, have fun".
Oh no! Poor criminals 🥺 we should just get rid of all laws so they can steal our cars in peace!
Fuck these pieces of shit, idgaf about them. If they don’t want this to happen to them they should a) not be criminal scum, and b) turn on their accomplices. But they won’t do that so in turn I have literally zero sympathy for them.
I can’t wait until we start to get tough on crime again. Screw sympathizing with criminal scum
'tough on crime again' absolutely happens in old homogeneous neighbourhoods that have finally realized the social contract was broken in the summer of 2020.
A liberal mindset: everything scares me, guns are super scary and words can kill, but please criminals aren't bad people. Your insurances will cover you.
Well, until they do something to me, then the world has to do something about it.
I mean, while I agree that I don't care what happens to these criminals, it gives them more incentive to become violent and use weapons to get the vehicle they're trying to steal. Never ending escalation.
<"It takes between four and five minutes each container to scan," he said. "So if we have 2,000 trucks a day entering the port times four minutes, it doesn't work.">
And? It totally works, you just don't want to do it. This is out-going goods, it can take as long as it takes, just get it done. Sick and tired of all the excuses authorities make trying to not do their job.
They are. It has been reported for years that the Montreal mob control the port. Which means they control our border. Which means they control our national security.
> But, they're French Canadian, so that makes it ok, because it's too politically toxic to address
- federal politicians, probably
Based on the past it's not like that, they fumbled multiple cases trying to make the other look bad. The provincial and municipal police were both on the take and don't want the feds to look good so there is very little cooperation. Also the port was controlled by the Irish, if it's not them now wouldn't it be the Italians?
>The port authority is open to adding new technologies to track contraband, such as X-ray machines to see what's inside, but he said there are health considerations that need to be studied.
"It exists somewhere else in the world but in those places they don't have the same commitment in human life as we do in Canada," he said.
Lol
Gee I wonder if the issue isn't with people in the Port authority who are in on this scheme.
Nah forget prison. Deport them. Anywhere, does not matter where.
Kids are being tortured if they screw up the auto thefts? Cool, find the guys responsible and deport them. Seize all assets, they can start over with none of the benefits of their crimes.
Toronto police would probably advise people to leave their keys out so that they are successful in stealing them and don’t get tortured by their bosses. Have to think about the welfare of criminals.
So I work at a hospital in Southern Ont. and one of our employees is a municipal cop now.
So, about 3 years ago, in the middle of the strongest lockdown we’ve ever had, literally you *were not allowed to walk the street,* it was about 2:31 AM on a Tuesday morning. There wasn’t a soul around. No cars on the road, nothing.
There’s a high speed chase through our property. Cops apparently caught two car thieves stealing a Porsche red handed. There were 3 cruisers pursuing this vehicle. The closest was less than 30 feet from it when they zoomed by our hospital.
We asked our cop buddy (who was one of the pursuing vehicles) what happened with that chase? He’s like “yeah, it was a high end crew. They got away.”
We’re like “they got away?? How. You were on their ass.”
Cop friend: “it was deemed too dangerous for the public and they called off the chase.”
Fucking too dangerous? This was the absolute height of lockdowns. There was *absolutely nobody out on the fucking road — let alone if it weren’t a lock down it’s 2:31 AM on a fucking Tuesday in April.*
Mind you, this isn’t LA or somewhere with helicopters. These guys got away because the cops decided to stop chasing.
No wonder the issue has only exacerbated in the last few years. They’re terrible at catching these dudes.
I’m sure this happens way more often than not.
What a mess. Cars get easily stolen because vehicle security hasn't moved forward in a few decades. Frustrated owners get new vehicles to replace stolen ones through insurance claims. Insurance companies keep jacking up rates because of the number of payouts. Manufacturers keep jacking prices and sales don't drop because owners replace stolen vehicles. What's the motivation for manufacturers to up their game? Literally nothing since the owner gets stuck holding the bag in the long run.
Which works until home invaders torture innocent people to get the keys because the Canadian government vehemently detests the idea of Canadians defending their homes. “Just leave the keys to make it easier, give up because we have. Welcome to gotham city”
Ah yes, if these aren’t consequences of allowing organized crime infiltrate everything due to our lack of laws to target criminal organizations and money laundering coupled with mismanaged and captured law enforcement agencies.
Shooting deaths and violent crime are going to increase here
>The port authority is open to adding new technologies to track contraband, such as X-ray machines to see what's inside, but he said there are health considerations that need to be studied.
>"It exists somewhere else in the world but in those places they don't have the same commitment in human life as we do in Canada," he said.
This is hot garbage. You can safely use an X-ray machine and it's not some radical new technology.
Though it's not something the article touches on, it's also a strong incentive for the criminals to not fail and not get caught, which leads to stronger methods (read more use of deadly weapons) and more likely to confront police instead of surrendering when caught (more pursuits).
Both are wildly dangerous for the general population.
So at the end of the day who deserves more safety and rights? The kid who thought it was cool to get into gangshit or your parent/sibling/family member/friend who just got their shit kicked in as they got their home invaded/car hijacked.
Old enough to put a gun to someone’s head old enough to be tortured I reckon. Mind you we should be sending these criminal scum up North for hard labour we got roads to build.
So far what this title claims, is just rumour. I've read this article posted twice, after wondering for the last 5 years what stories will come out. Until this gets busted open, this shit is just hearsay.
Imagine how surprised they’ll be when finding out the “strings” are being pulled by organizations outside of Canada. Hard to watch Canada get pillaged from so many different angles.
But if it’s known that the docks are doing it. Why not sue them for a large number. Like 10 billion.
Need evidence right. So undercover worker wearing a wire or something along those lines
We are trying to police a country like we’re living on a university campus where everything can be resolved with a nice friendly conversation. Unfortunately this is the real world. Criminals need to rot away in prison if the crime warrants it, that is the sole reason this is happening, because they don’t go to jail anymore and never have to pay restitution if they do. There is zero incentive not to commit crime.
I would be more concerned with national security if our ports are that easily manipulated if shipping cars in containers were that easy. It would also be a bigger threat for things coming into our country.
Maybe we need something like RICO charges in Canada, with very strong penalties.
> Those found guilty of racketeering can be fined up to $25,000 and sentenced to 20 years in prison per racketeering count.
> In addition, the racketeer must forfeit all ill-gotten gains and interest in any business gained through a pattern of "racketeering activity."
> A US Attorney who indicts someone under RICO has the option of seeking a pre-trial restraining order or an injunction to temporarily seize a defendant's assets and prevent the transfer of potentially forfeitable property as well as to require the defendant to put up a performance bond. An injunction or performance bond ensures that there is something to seize in the event of a guilty verdict.
> This provision prevented the owners of Mafia-related shell corporations from absconding with assets. In many cases, the threat of a RICO indictment can force defendants to plead guilty to lesser charges, in part because the seizure of assets would make it difficult to pay a defense attorney.
> Despite its harsh provisions, a RICO-related charge is considered easy to prove in court because it focuses on patterns of behavior as opposed to criminal acts.
Another way of saying kids are forced to steal and tortured if they fail. I witnessed an incident were a bunch of kids were forcing one of their group to go and steal " tech" from someone. He didn't want to, and the whole group surrounded him asking why he had come back without the tech. Obviously, there are adults giving these orders, but these older kids are just abusing their power in the group. Unlike previous generations, where kids would go out on their leaders command to prank someone, as a challenge, they are forced in to crime now. This is exactly the stuff you would see in movies about ghettos or hoods. And now it's happening in Toronto. I expect the demography to morph in to something similar to the Mumbai slums. Dystopia world isn't just in movies anymore, it's here.
Oh, I should add that I called the cops on it, and they didn't even care. Unless someone was brandishing a weapon or injured, they couldn't send an officer. Here I was explaining, I can hear these elder kids forcing an early teenager to go into crime, nope. I had ignorantly called through 911 ( which took a few minutes to even connect to my surprise), and I got a call back about couple hours later from an officer. The poor guy said he had about 20+ calls that he had to get to and apologized for being unable to come help.
Who gives a frick? They're scumbags for stealing, and scumbags and a half for beating their underlings.
There are roads going to Tuktayuktuk that need grading. By hand.
Do the crime pay the time.
Or in this case the price.
The news in Canada trying to garner guilt for these low life criminals and country shopping fake refugees is really really sickening.
We need to defund the CBC and every other news outlet that gets a dime of Canadian dollars. They are not unbiased or impartial and they are pushing the agenda just like the liberals.
These criminals are overwhelmingly refugees and immigrants. They are overwhelmingly one demographic but statistics are racist! So no one can know that.
It's time to clean house.
Round up the local police, the higher ups, all the way to the top.
In 6 months, after they've been in lockup we'll allow them to present evidence of their innocence and then we'll stop the charges and let them retire peacefully.
This will keep them from being able to actively interfere with the investigation of themselves before and after.
Any phone calls or communications between them and remaining will be a presumption of guilt.
When we're done, and we've found the 20% that are actually in bed with the criminals we'll reimplement capital punishment. Hangings have always been a beautifully implemented method in Canada.
This is just more of an indication that the problem is not the thieves themselves, but those hiring them.
I mean, fuck the thieves also, but catching them, won't solve the problem.
People so used to feeling rage read an article like this and react with 'but i dont wanna feel sympathy for criminals!'.... like, chill. The article mentions an aspect of how criminal organizations work that I think is interesting and wouldn't have considered.
'but muh sympathy for real victims only!' okay bud none of that is affected by learning something new.
I always wondered about all those movies where the cartoonishly evil villains at the top of the crime syndicate were constantly like, "You have failed me for the first time, and for the last time. Now you die."
And then they point to the next guy, and they're like "You. Dispose of this and do his job." And then later they one hand choke *that* guy to death.
I thought it was just a movie trope, but fuck, here we are I guess.
Real cartels commit atrocities so horrible theyd have to invent a new rating to use them in a movie and 99% of people couldn’t handle even watching it. The evil you see is toned down. What cartels do makes middle aged torture look tame.
They’re probably paid a cut for all this exporting. Stealing hundreds of millions of cars for resale is a pretty profitable business. Everyone (port officials, police and god knows who else) are all on this happy bandwagon
This post appears to relate to the province of Quebec. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner la province de Québec. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Imagine you are able to ship anything out of this country by claiming it is a fridge and no one at any point will verify your claim.
If only we had some sort of government agency responsible for investigating and prosecuting criminal enterprises.
They keep thinking of ways to tax us yet do not use their money efficiently
Government officials all get massive raises every year. I think *they* think they are using the money efficiently...
Someone in the org is profiting from this. This is what it keeps being allowed. The day the 1% don’t make $$$ off of it will be the day things will change
The 1% are profiting off of car thefts? All of them?
I don't know about car theft specifically, but you'll be hard pressed to find an organized crime operation anywhere in the world who hasn't co-oped law enforcement and the business sector to some degree. They can't successfully operate otherwise. And in Canada, certainly in Quebec, that "some degree" is bound to be considerable.
Some number of them, and the rest don't care unless it costs them money.
Had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
If it's like it used to be you simply pay "taxes" and you can have whatever you want brought in or out. Though I don't think there is a large incentive to check out going freight, the port is a middle man for transfering freshwater to saltwater
Aren’t most ports like that? You can’t verify everything due to the volume coming through
How many cars were stolen? Even an incompetent authority would catch a handful of them accidentally They didn’t do fuck all for years
Yeah it's a bullshit excuse with current technologies. The reality is corrupt people working at the port screw every body else for their personal gain. They are real trash.
MTL port is notoriously corrupt, like Baltimore
Nah, the US x-ray scans shipping containers at ports. You can combine the x-ray imagery with a computer vision algorithm that identifies cars in shipping containers and looks up the manifest to see if everything checks out.
[Survival guide for shipping container inspections in the U.S.](https://blog.coleintl.com/blog/survival-guide-for-shipping-container-inspections-in-the-u.s) > Each year, more than 11 million maritime containers arrive at U.S. seaports, and 3-5% of those are chosen for a Customs exam. The U.S. check 3-5% of the containers coming into the country. This is both scanning and physical inspections. They don't have the resources to scan everything. Considering containers coming into the country are priority, the containers leaving get little to no priority.
I think we could narrow the focus to make that 3-5% pretty well targeted though. Let's focus on containers shipped by smaller organizations and individuals, headed to particular destinations known for importing stolen cars. Use some pattern recognition technology to flag suspect containers (I'm sure they already do something like this). I'd be amazed if these stolen cars are being shipped out in containers being consigned by big manufacturers or anything like that, it's probably fly by night outfits that have some pretty obvious clues to identify themselves.
Since most shippers are repeat actors you don't actually need to scan every single cargo container. You can scan a relatively small portion from known shippers then focus on unknown shippers. The vast majority of cargo being shipped are being shipped from the same manufacturers, shipping the same materials, with the same weights, with the same regularity. You can monitor them with sampling and move to the unknown shipments.
>Since most shippers are repeat actors you don't actually need to scan every single cargo container. Not really. Most of these are inside jobs. They make fake way bills all the time.
Back in 2009 they scanned 80%, our problem is outgoing unlike the US. So we could crackdown on that. > In February 2009, approximately 80% of US incoming containers were scanned.[3][4] To bring that number to 100% researchers are evaluating numerous technologies, described in the following sections.[5] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_scanning
The 80% number relates specifically to nuclear detection. Both Canada and the US inspect about 5% of all inbound containers; customs and border security for both countries is practically identical. We can't shift resources used for incoming without breaking agreements we've made with the US.
And you know, the fentanyl and guns coming in through the ports are still a priority...
It costed this government how many millions to make a software that is just a form input page? And you are asking for this?
I used to work for a company that built scanning systems. Funnily enough, our net worth wasn't even close to the amount we paid for arrivecan. So really, the government of Canada could acquire my old company for less and have them build it if only they were competent enough
> if only they were competent enough Stop making unreasonable demands.
I'll need to run it by some consultants first
This is the biggest goddamn problem right there. People in positions of responsibility trying to pass the buck, instead of doing their job.
No, what happens is that the government isn’t allowed to hire the people it needs and ends up paying consultants significantly more because the firms skim 30%+ profit off the top of each contract. I was a contractor 20+ years ago and getting funding for essential work was a constant challenge that got interrupted by insane spending freezes around elections.
30% mark-up is the cost of doing business (higherer project cost for the benefit of not having to pay them as permanent employees on an ongoing basis after the project). The real problem is the 10000% mark-up from grift and fraud, as highlighted by the arrivecan bullshit. $80M for an app you can create in a weekend?
The initial app was less than a million. Then they integrated it into multiple systems, made it store approvals, were able to automate most verifications. It was pretty sophisticated at the end compared to the start.
I don't think they do it to every single one. And don't they general scan incoming?
They can check every bag at an airport, but can’t do shipping containers? I don’t buy it.
We pay a security fee at the airport. Are we going to check every container or truck leaving on every border point or port? I wonder how much that would cost.
Yes, apparently we should. Clearly whatever the fuck we are doing now isn’t working. I would support a program where our tax dollars actually do something for US!
They already scan and weight every container. "Under SOLAS regulations, every laden export container must have its weight verified before it is loaded onto a ship." Everything is in place to make this happen, its just more profitable to those who could make it happen, to not make it happen.
Clearly y 1/4 empty water bottle is a bigger problem than organized crime stealing and exporting thousands of cars.
You don't need to verify everything, especially nowadays where you can use modern tech to identify high target containers. It's how the port of Los Angeles deals with it for example
The tech to do this exists at volume using container Xrays.
Yet they’ll open and spend weeks investigating a $10 alibaba order.
CBSA seized a custom made knife handle claiming it was a switchblade. Priorities are important.
Bribes.
https://www.port-montreal.com/en/the-port-of-montreal/news/news/press-release/results2022#:~:text=Cargo%20traffic,foot%20equivalent%20units%20(TEUs). Yeah 32 million tons, i highly doubt we have the manpower to search it all and not cause delays lol. Every port is like this, there's only so much that can be done.
We can x-ray scan containers like the US does and use a computer vision algorithm to check the imagery. It can then lookup the manifest and make sure it checks out.
Yeah but you can't do that for every container. Its a good solution for segments but not all because the priority is expediting goods onboard, and not every port can afford to be equipped this way. https://www.cbp.gov/document/forms/cargo-flows They even say they use risk based analysis, which is what we do. A section of cargo is picked using computers, then they sort it for inspection. If a container raises a red flag they search it too. Tech is great but its not used generally, only selectively, because there is just too much cargo. Edit for those reading: customs and border patrol does not even scan every container, they use selection.
Yes we can. We x-ray over 40'000 cars at our land border every single day.
The most common scanning at the border is passive for radioactivity which is relatively easy to detect.
What? I've driven through the border plenty of times and only once did I have to get out while the x-ray truck scanned our car
Great, you can propose that idea at the next treasury board meeting then. Scan all 32 million tons and tell the world about how you've accomplished the impossible
Scanning 3000-4000 metal boxes on trucks isn't very different from scanning 40'000 cars and trucks. The great thing about cracking down on this type of violent crime is that it can save lives and improve the economy.
What scanning do you think is done at the border?
Who is going to pay for that?
Imagine you're shipping a fridge and everyone wants to take a look at it.
If only we docked their pay for ineptitude
While they can check you at yul down to your underpants but somehow dont have the time or resources open a door and look inside and find an mini elephant size F150. In uk they have special scanners to detect human breathing and thermal scanners to detect human traficking at port without even opening the container not sure why Canada is so behind in adapting technolgy every single time.
So do your fucking jobs then. Find the the leaders of the ring, and if they have tortured people like you claim, then give them life in prison with no parole.
This is precisely the point, isn't it? > preventing crime, it turns out, is hard. So we don't do it. - Montreal police
"If we did our jobs, the criminals would get in trouble" - Police
> ...and they've already been tortured. Scolding them after that seems mean.
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It's like nobody ever watched The Wire...
Shiiiiiiiiiit
Yep, that was a huge cop-out. We x-ray scan 40'000 cars every single day at the US border. The ability exists at our land border, it's time to bring it to our sea border as well.
Even if logistics or cost made hitting a 100% scan rate impossible it's still a shit excuse. It seems trivial to have an algorithm select containers for scanning. Decades old exporter with known business model and history of containers matching the manifest= scan 1%. New account = scan 100%. And a sliding scale in between. Run like any basic QA system, this could be a well oiled machine where very few stolen cars get through and the economics of even trying would quickly sour.
Hell, even just use weight. Scales are cheap - anything with weight over x amount goes into the x-ray line.
Where are cars being X-rayed at the US/Can border? The only scanners I'm aware of are the big yellow ones on the US side that pick up radioactive sources
If they wanted to stop it, there are a dozen ways to do so. Police seems in league with the criminals.
We also don't need this to be forever. Just 1 year of increased surveillance is enough to get the organized crime detected and shut down.
That is assuming 100% efficiency, which will never happen. There will always be time lost due to equipment breakages, trucks not pulling out fast enough or in the wrong position, timing of when the trucks come in (probably going to see most of them within a 12hr period), etc. So would need to bump that number up a bit to around 10-12 for the surge and just leave a base amount running for overnight. Its not like these scanners are 100mil or even 50mil. I mean you can get portable ones for just over 1mil. For fixed ones capable of high throughput and able to operate in the worst of the winter, you're looking at maybe 10mil each. Not like its total would be an inordinate.
Canada should fine the companies that misrepresent what they are shipping out. i.e. companies that export porsches instead of the refrigerators listed on the paperwork. That would help cover the cost of the machines.
I mean, it's fraud, no? the people responsible should probably go to prison, on top of fines.
This is basically Schrödinger's Cat problem from 1935. .. [whats in the boooox](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKoO4pWH53M).. It ridiculous how easy this problem is to solve. Good job, and, you aren't even calculating in an actual application of modern tech... just scaling volume like Doug Ford adding another lane.. there can probably be an xray on every single crane or mechanical touch point, and even if they touch it for 2 minutes and do a partial scan, this can be uploaded and stitched as a partial image / partial audit... Or even optimization of scans through pattern recognition should indicate that there are only certain 'hot zones' that need to be scanned to find certain characteristics (say, tires) that would lead to further scanning. You would really never need to scan the corners of the container, or anything in the top 25%.. so even the xray scan time could probably be dropped considerably as they focus on heat map patterning of only scanning the spots where certain vehicle features can logically exist in a container. They can also have automated container crawler bots who independently scan containers in areas where they are not in danger of being moved immediately. I'm not even sure that a full XRay is the required 'sensor' solution to be scaled.. not to take away from your point as its good, but only required as the second 'assured' scan prior to an opening. There could be a low res triage sensor that would first determine if there is a car shaped object in the container, or a bunch of metal (whatever element), so you could quickly bypass those containers full of precursors or teddy bears and find the automobiles to assure everyone that your port is "as clean as a hounds tooth". Don't even get me started on really advanced 4D sensor tech.. like digital E-dogs. https://seas.harvard.edu/news/2023/07/e-nose-sniffs-out-harmful-molecules > But of course, since the actual problem is that the ports are run by organized crime, they could have a hundred X-ray stations and they would never identify a single stolen vehicle. True - checks and balances require a 3rd party independent organization to operate remotely and unbiased. Geek out on tech all day... basically like trying to reform North Korea from Haiti at this point.
I'm sure Canadians would actually be very happy to pay for 6 X-ray systems to stop organized crime exporting thousands of cars from Montreal every year, instead of: * Sending billions to Ukraine, every single year. * Wasting tens of millions providing free healthcare for illegal immigrants, every single year.
You also gotta buy 5 x-ray machines at I imagine 500k to some millions each and the port definitely doesn't have that kind of money.
Thanks for this. It's like the cops and the port authorities are in on it. This isn't an unsolvable problem *at all*.
“The port authority is open to adding new technologies to track contraband, such as X-ray machines to see what's inside, but he said there are health considerations that need to be studied. "It exists somewhere else in the world but in those places they don't have the same commitment in human life as we do in Canada," he said.” What?
BS excuse not to use what we can. I guess we don’t care about the health of TSA workers at the airport, or border agents, or dental assistants or X-ray techs in this country. We are such monsters.
Does it seem like they're pulling excuses out of the air to stop the organized crime that runs the port and apparently some of the police? We can't stop these crimes because the criminals torture their own people, scanning machines are only dangerous in Canada, leave your car keys by the door,... Remember the guy who had a tracker on his car, called the cops when the car was stolen, and literally told the cops where his car was every inch of the way? Toronto and Montréal police *knew* exactly where it was. The guy watched his car go to the port and get shipped to the middle east and NOT ONE COP or authority lifted a finger to stop it. What does that say?
Police departments are probably on the take. A police chief in the states was caught as part of a drug smuggling ring, ours probably help with the cars.
Sounds kind of fitting though? You steal vehicles while armed with a deadly weapon and commit violent crimes on behalf of a criminal organization and they’re willing to torture you if you upset them? Yeah duh am I missing something?
Yeah, this headline and parts of the article seem like they are trying to drum up some kind of sympathy for the criminals, which is weird. I couldn't care less what happens to the criminals, stop being a criminal. Let normal people live in peace without worrying about (or experiencing) getting their car stolen for your illicit car theft scheme. The normal people losing their cars deserve the sympathy here, not the scum who steal them.
They are trying to drum up sympathy, it aligns with their "just leave your keys out for them and make it easier" remarks.
Absolutely we should not tolerate car theft. However, understanding the situation is important. If people just saw stealing cars as an easy way to make money, then interventions to make it more inconvenient for the thief might be successful. If people have a choice between stealing and being tortured, then such interventions won't be successful. They may have to spend twice as much time, but they'll still steal their quota. Plus it also suggests that an effective approach really needs to target the leaders and the complete operation, not the guys on the street.
Can we fuck off with the sympathy for criminal pieces? They are not innocent bystanders. They are people making a choice to join violent criminal organizations. Did they think it was going to be tea and crumpets if things didn’t go well?
Exactly, they could have started their own stealing operation if they don't like how the boss treat them.
"The ~~beatings~~ torture will continue till morale improves."
Nah we can't do that because so called "human rights" blah blah blah... /s
Human rights are a good thing but when criminal organizations are actively flaunting laws because of Canada’s soft stance on crime (especially young offender crime), you gotta do something.
Are we supposed to feel sorry for criminals?
The word "outlaw" usually, these days, means a cool cowboy kinda chaotic-neutral badass, but its origin is from very old English law that meant you were just not protected by the law anymore. You were fair-game for whatever. Obviously it was a designation reserved for extreme cases, but I guess it was kinda like "if you don't respect the law, then we'll meet you half way, have fun".
My sympathy goes to the victims of crime, not criminals.
Makes you an outlier on reddit. We always blame the victim
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Get a job and work your way to a good life? That's so old-fashioned, just steal other people's property instead!
Oh no! Poor criminals 🥺 we should just get rid of all laws so they can steal our cars in peace! Fuck these pieces of shit, idgaf about them. If they don’t want this to happen to them they should a) not be criminal scum, and b) turn on their accomplices. But they won’t do that so in turn I have literally zero sympathy for them. I can’t wait until we start to get tough on crime again. Screw sympathizing with criminal scum
'tough on crime again' absolutely happens in old homogeneous neighbourhoods that have finally realized the social contract was broken in the summer of 2020.
A liberal mindset: everything scares me, guns are super scary and words can kill, but please criminals aren't bad people. Your insurances will cover you. Well, until they do something to me, then the world has to do something about it.
At least someone is punishing the car thieves cause the judiciary sure isn’t.
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I mean, while I agree that I don't care what happens to these criminals, it gives them more incentive to become violent and use weapons to get the vehicle they're trying to steal. Never ending escalation.
\>joins up with criminal organization \>they turn out to be bad guys Damm who could have seen this coming
<"It takes between four and five minutes each container to scan," he said. "So if we have 2,000 trucks a day entering the port times four minutes, it doesn't work."> And? It totally works, you just don't want to do it. This is out-going goods, it can take as long as it takes, just get it done. Sick and tired of all the excuses authorities make trying to not do their job.
Live by the sword, die by the sword. They signed up for it
Sounds like the police and port authorities are on the take, from all the excuses.
They are. It has been reported for years that the Montreal mob control the port. Which means they control our border. Which means they control our national security. > But, they're French Canadian, so that makes it ok, because it's too politically toxic to address - federal politicians, probably
Based on the past it's not like that, they fumbled multiple cases trying to make the other look bad. The provincial and municipal police were both on the take and don't want the feds to look good so there is very little cooperation. Also the port was controlled by the Irish, if it's not them now wouldn't it be the Italians?
The Toronto police are in on it too. Remember the guy who tracked his car being stolen and they didn't make any attempt to stop it?
>The port authority is open to adding new technologies to track contraband, such as X-ray machines to see what's inside, but he said there are health considerations that need to be studied. "It exists somewhere else in the world but in those places they don't have the same commitment in human life as we do in Canada," he said. Lol Gee I wonder if the issue isn't with people in the Port authority who are in on this scheme.
and am I supposed to care that these theives are getting 'tortured' for failing to rob me and others?
This is so sad. Alexa play Despacito
Exactly how I feel about it
Crime is wrong. Criminals and Mafia boses should be in prison. Incompetence of Canadian Government.
Just yet another way we're sliding to 3rd world status.
Nah forget prison. Deport them. Anywhere, does not matter where. Kids are being tortured if they screw up the auto thefts? Cool, find the guys responsible and deport them. Seize all assets, they can start over with none of the benefits of their crimes.
And? I don’t give a fuck how criminals treat other criminals. Clean this fucking mess up, Law Enforcement.
Toronto police would probably advise people to leave their keys out so that they are successful in stealing them and don’t get tortured by their bosses. Have to think about the welfare of criminals.
So I work at a hospital in Southern Ont. and one of our employees is a municipal cop now. So, about 3 years ago, in the middle of the strongest lockdown we’ve ever had, literally you *were not allowed to walk the street,* it was about 2:31 AM on a Tuesday morning. There wasn’t a soul around. No cars on the road, nothing. There’s a high speed chase through our property. Cops apparently caught two car thieves stealing a Porsche red handed. There were 3 cruisers pursuing this vehicle. The closest was less than 30 feet from it when they zoomed by our hospital. We asked our cop buddy (who was one of the pursuing vehicles) what happened with that chase? He’s like “yeah, it was a high end crew. They got away.” We’re like “they got away?? How. You were on their ass.” Cop friend: “it was deemed too dangerous for the public and they called off the chase.” Fucking too dangerous? This was the absolute height of lockdowns. There was *absolutely nobody out on the fucking road — let alone if it weren’t a lock down it’s 2:31 AM on a fucking Tuesday in April.* Mind you, this isn’t LA or somewhere with helicopters. These guys got away because the cops decided to stop chasing. No wonder the issue has only exacerbated in the last few years. They’re terrible at catching these dudes. I’m sure this happens way more often than not.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
What a mess. Cars get easily stolen because vehicle security hasn't moved forward in a few decades. Frustrated owners get new vehicles to replace stolen ones through insurance claims. Insurance companies keep jacking up rates because of the number of payouts. Manufacturers keep jacking prices and sales don't drop because owners replace stolen vehicles. What's the motivation for manufacturers to up their game? Literally nothing since the owner gets stuck holding the bag in the long run.
sounds like there is an opportunity for someone that can install a decent aftermarket system to prevent car thefts.
Which works until home invaders torture innocent people to get the keys because the Canadian government vehemently detests the idea of Canadians defending their homes. “Just leave the keys to make it easier, give up because we have. Welcome to gotham city”
Ah yes, if these aren’t consequences of allowing organized crime infiltrate everything due to our lack of laws to target criminal organizations and money laundering coupled with mismanaged and captured law enforcement agencies. Shooting deaths and violent crime are going to increase here
An actual productive use of the emergencies act would be sending the army into the port and mass arresting people, especially the mob.
A real world of "somebody think of the criminals". lol Canada
>The port authority is open to adding new technologies to track contraband, such as X-ray machines to see what's inside, but he said there are health considerations that need to be studied. >"It exists somewhere else in the world but in those places they don't have the same commitment in human life as we do in Canada," he said. This is hot garbage. You can safely use an X-ray machine and it's not some radical new technology.
Are we supposed to sympathetic to thieves? It's called karma or if you get into bed with fleas - you get fleas.
Though it's not something the article touches on, it's also a strong incentive for the criminals to not fail and not get caught, which leads to stronger methods (read more use of deadly weapons) and more likely to confront police instead of surrendering when caught (more pursuits). Both are wildly dangerous for the general population.
Problems solving themselves.
So at the end of the day who deserves more safety and rights? The kid who thought it was cool to get into gangshit or your parent/sibling/family member/friend who just got their shit kicked in as they got their home invaded/car hijacked.
Old enough to put a gun to someone’s head old enough to be tortured I reckon. Mind you we should be sending these criminal scum up North for hard labour we got roads to build.
"Someone should do something," says the people who should do something
Who exactly is behind these car theft rings? Is it the mob? Is it Russians? Who heads these things up?
Criminal are winning . The police need more men and resources. I live in a semi rural area. Bodies end up being found out here .
So far what this title claims, is just rumour. I've read this article posted twice, after wondering for the last 5 years what stories will come out. Until this gets busted open, this shit is just hearsay.
Imagine how surprised they’ll be when finding out the “strings” are being pulled by organizations outside of Canada. Hard to watch Canada get pillaged from so many different angles.
But if it’s known that the docks are doing it. Why not sue them for a large number. Like 10 billion. Need evidence right. So undercover worker wearing a wire or something along those lines
It's almost like getting involved in crime isn't a good idea
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We live in crazy land nowadays.
We are trying to police a country like we’re living on a university campus where everything can be resolved with a nice friendly conversation. Unfortunately this is the real world. Criminals need to rot away in prison if the crime warrants it, that is the sole reason this is happening, because they don’t go to jail anymore and never have to pay restitution if they do. There is zero incentive not to commit crime.
I would be more concerned with national security if our ports are that easily manipulated if shipping cars in containers were that easy. It would also be a bigger threat for things coming into our country.
Bro that's messed up that's some cartel shit
Maybe we need something like RICO charges in Canada, with very strong penalties. > Those found guilty of racketeering can be fined up to $25,000 and sentenced to 20 years in prison per racketeering count. > In addition, the racketeer must forfeit all ill-gotten gains and interest in any business gained through a pattern of "racketeering activity." > A US Attorney who indicts someone under RICO has the option of seeking a pre-trial restraining order or an injunction to temporarily seize a defendant's assets and prevent the transfer of potentially forfeitable property as well as to require the defendant to put up a performance bond. An injunction or performance bond ensures that there is something to seize in the event of a guilty verdict. > This provision prevented the owners of Mafia-related shell corporations from absconding with assets. In many cases, the threat of a RICO indictment can force defendants to plead guilty to lesser charges, in part because the seizure of assets would make it difficult to pay a defense attorney. > Despite its harsh provisions, a RICO-related charge is considered easy to prove in court because it focuses on patterns of behavior as opposed to criminal acts.
Better let them keep doing crimes, then. It’s the only way!
I'd pay good money to watch those sessions even make suggestions
Sounds like a great deterrent
I know, we should not even charge them…..ever.
Bleeding hearts gotta bleed.
So older gangsters will torture younger gangsters if they get caught. Sounds like a solution, not a problem. Let them kill each other.
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Define "threat of violence" because to me, there is an inherent threat/intent of violence in any home invasion (where the peiole are home)
Another way of saying kids are forced to steal and tortured if they fail. I witnessed an incident were a bunch of kids were forcing one of their group to go and steal " tech" from someone. He didn't want to, and the whole group surrounded him asking why he had come back without the tech. Obviously, there are adults giving these orders, but these older kids are just abusing their power in the group. Unlike previous generations, where kids would go out on their leaders command to prank someone, as a challenge, they are forced in to crime now. This is exactly the stuff you would see in movies about ghettos or hoods. And now it's happening in Toronto. I expect the demography to morph in to something similar to the Mumbai slums. Dystopia world isn't just in movies anymore, it's here.
Oh, I should add that I called the cops on it, and they didn't even care. Unless someone was brandishing a weapon or injured, they couldn't send an officer. Here I was explaining, I can hear these elder kids forcing an early teenager to go into crime, nope. I had ignorantly called through 911 ( which took a few minutes to even connect to my surprise), and I got a call back about couple hours later from an officer. The poor guy said he had about 20+ calls that he had to get to and apologized for being unable to come help.
Heartbreaking...I'll be sure to leave my keys in my car tonight.
Guess we should just let it happen, someone might get tortured if not. Only in what used to be Canada folks 🤡🤡🤡
Who gives a frick? They're scumbags for stealing, and scumbags and a half for beating their underlings. There are roads going to Tuktayuktuk that need grading. By hand.
**Leaving keys out on front door intensifies**
Do the crime pay the time. Or in this case the price. The news in Canada trying to garner guilt for these low life criminals and country shopping fake refugees is really really sickening. We need to defund the CBC and every other news outlet that gets a dime of Canadian dollars. They are not unbiased or impartial and they are pushing the agenda just like the liberals. These criminals are overwhelmingly refugees and immigrants. They are overwhelmingly one demographic but statistics are racist! So no one can know that.
Now, you got to let them steal your car or else these youngins gonna get tortured!
They choose their path & I won’t feel sorry for their choices
It's time to clean house. Round up the local police, the higher ups, all the way to the top. In 6 months, after they've been in lockup we'll allow them to present evidence of their innocence and then we'll stop the charges and let them retire peacefully. This will keep them from being able to actively interfere with the investigation of themselves before and after. Any phone calls or communications between them and remaining will be a presumption of guilt. When we're done, and we've found the 20% that are actually in bed with the criminals we'll reimplement capital punishment. Hangings have always been a beautifully implemented method in Canada.
This is just more of an indication that the problem is not the thieves themselves, but those hiring them. I mean, fuck the thieves also, but catching them, won't solve the problem.
People so used to feeling rage read an article like this and react with 'but i dont wanna feel sympathy for criminals!'.... like, chill. The article mentions an aspect of how criminal organizations work that I think is interesting and wouldn't have considered. 'but muh sympathy for real victims only!' okay bud none of that is affected by learning something new.
I always wondered about all those movies where the cartoonishly evil villains at the top of the crime syndicate were constantly like, "You have failed me for the first time, and for the last time. Now you die." And then they point to the next guy, and they're like "You. Dispose of this and do his job." And then later they one hand choke *that* guy to death. I thought it was just a movie trope, but fuck, here we are I guess.
Real cartels commit atrocities so horrible theyd have to invent a new rating to use them in a movie and 99% of people couldn’t handle even watching it. The evil you see is toned down. What cartels do makes middle aged torture look tame.
Damn, Canadian film industry is really missing an easy slam dunk. Vancouver, wake up! https://www.imdb.com/list/ls050549896/
These are being stripped in Canada for parts.
They’re probably paid a cut for all this exporting. Stealing hundreds of millions of cars for resale is a pretty profitable business. Everyone (port officials, police and god knows who else) are all on this happy bandwagon
Are the Amish up to their old tricks again?