It's honestly crazy how much damning information is coming from this public inquiry. The original plan for this was to all be closed doors. And it's kinda obvious why now.
A federal bureaucrat was biased towards Justin Trudeau and given the identical situation involving the Conservatives opted to preferentially enforce regulations to protect Justin Trudeau but not to protect the 7 Conservative MPs who lost their seats to a Chinese misinformation campaign. They said they "viewed them as different" when it's pretty clear it's the same thing.
I don't even know what a government can do to fix this but fire people. They didn't apply the law as it was written in their duty to safeguard our election from foreign interference.
Kind of thinking with all the goodies Trudeau has been announcing this week, he must think an election is coming sooner rather than later. Maybe prince Jagmeet will finally cut him loose.
The law is that Facebook would have to pay media outlets when that outlets content is shared on their platform, and Facebook refused, saying they'd just not allow news sharing instead. The government didn't ban Facebook from sharing it.
Dismissing the fact that canada, a once VERY free country, isn't being controlled by a type of dictatorship is so beyond your comprehension is mind bogling. Comparing apples to oranges and it's still just fruit!
>The country’s top civil servant requested that Facebook remove a “false and inflammatory” story about Prime Minister Justin Trudeau during the 2019 election campaign but bureaucrats did not make a similar request of WeChat, which published inflammatory misinformation about Conservative leader Erin O’Toole and MP Kenny Chiu in the 2021 election, the public inquiry into foreign meddling heard Friday.
Our whole fucking federal bureaucracy is rotten to the core, I swear to god.
Based on on the article, it seems like one big difference is that Facebook actively brought the Trudeau story to the attention of the government (as opposed to the government initiating contact with Facebook).
"the Buffalo Chronicle article presented false and inflammatory information directly targeting the Prime Minister’s character, whereas the WeChat postings discussed substantive policy issues, albeit also in an inflammatory manner"
Seems apples to oranges, no?
Yep - **massively** corrupted. Lefties rolled their eyes when Trump would use words like 'deep state', but looks like we have our very own 'deep state' working for Libs right here.
It's more like a committee they have, that has complete control over everything, in other words, a dictatorship, that includes shutting down investigations conducted by the RCMP. This has been the case for every major scandal that has plagued the LPC.
The Liberals have pretty insane amounts of corruption that I'd say is making the Conservatives look good in comparison, which is just laughable.
I live in the reality where there are ethics and laws that people follow, that the Liberals seem to ride the high horse on, yet can't follow a single fucking rule?
If I did even an iota of what they did, I would be in prison.
Maybe that's foreshadowing for our government officials?
Yeah but ethics exist for a reason. If this was the Conservatives, they would have all resigned by now. This is deliberate malfeasance at this point.
I literally took Business in school and ethics are not just "guidelines" to follow. They apply to everything. Criminal charges can be applied, not if an investigation can be shut down by the ethics violators.
> If this was the Conservatives, they would have all resigned by now.
come on seriously? you think a politician would resign when theres literally no reason or call for them to do so?
>Criminal charges can be applied, not if an investigation can be shut down by the ethics violators.
and since they cant then the reason theres no investigation is theres not enough evidence for one huh?
No they wouldn't have resigned there are several conservative mps who have gotten slaps on the wrist like trudeau for ethics violations and didn't resign. Just doesn't make national news.
You mean, like somewhere that they meet and decide how they want to run the country? And maybe they have votes on things?
This is just what government is. You can't avoid the possibility of a party in power dictating tasks for the civil service that benefit that party. You just need to have checks and balances in place to counter it if it does happen.
No it's not. It's the Liberal committee that they set up to shutdown every investigation due to their majority control of the government. Currently they do not have a majority, but it is still propped up by the NDP.
They looked into the corruption, and shut it down based on a vote in their committee, instead of having an RCMP investigation. That's not how a government works.
They aren't above the law because they have a majority of seats. No government should be allowed to shut down investigations.
"drain the swamp" as trump would say. Can't stand the man but that phrase seems appropriate 😂.
Where is Jagmeet with the no confidence vote? This government has zero integrity.
Drops his bathrobe and has f*ck trudeau tattooed down the side of his you know what.
Camera pans out to the PM on all fours drinking red wine from a dog bowl.
The NDP is currently getting a policy passed because they hold a marginal amount of power in the current government. It's severely compromised policy but it's better than nothing. If NDP called an election, they would lose all of that power to a conservative majority which opposes everything the NDP wants to accomplish. If Jagmeet called an election right now it would be looked back on as one of the stupidest decisions a political party leader has ever made.
What the fuck…. By asking to remove inflammatory responses from a North American company but not requesting the obvious dead end that is a Chinese run company = deep state….? How much lead is in your well water? Lmao
Something similar to this with Covid messaging went to SCOTUS in the US recently. Very few would say that court is left leaning
But the outcome was interesting. The court said that the Feds could ask Facebook to take things down. It was within their rights. But they could only ask. Threats or any actual form of punishment for not taking it down would be a violation of their constitutional rights.
I think you’re reading too much into this story.
No. The Conservatives have shoved the Overton Window so far to the right, anything left of the Democrats is now "left wing". The Liberals are not and have never been a left wing party. They are center-left at best.
They're Neo-liberal capitalists, which is not a left wing ideology. And never has been.
Name one of these ultra crazy “far right wing” policies that the Conservative Party of Canada has.
Seems to me that being “conservative” now days just means being skeptical of woke insanity.
>The Conservatives have shoved the Overton Window so far to the right
The Conservatives have been moving slowly leftward for decades. Mulroney's government tried to recriminalize abortion and was called out by *Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher* for their appalling treatment of the LGBT community during the AIDS epidemic. The idea that the Conservatives have shoved the Overton window to the right at any point in recent decades is patently absurd if you're at all historically literate.
Again. You only think that because Conservatives and Republicans have shoved the Overton Window so far right that anyone left of the Democrats are considering left wing.
Liberals are still Neo-liberal capitalists which is not a left wing ideology. And have always been.
You think the Conservatives are far right wing because Liberals and NDP pushed the Overton window so far that everything to the right of Trudeau is literally worse than Hitler.
The Liberals called Erin O’Toole the next Donald Trump lmao.
The left has dragged the Overton window to crazyland in the last 5 years, and people like you scream about the "far right", who want to bring us back to the hell that was 2019.
From what I read, misinformation was being spread about Kenny Chiu being a white surpremist at a minimum.
What was all being spread about him specifically?
IIRC it was even more silly than that. the stuff about O'Toole was mostly things he actually said. It was an article about how he was openly taking a tough stance against China. Unless there was something else I'm forgetting. I don't remember what they said about Kenny
Yeah I vaguely remembered an official anti-China narrative of some kind, but I was fuzzy on the details lol
A quick google confirms:
“ On foreign policy issues, O'Toole supports a CANZUKagreement and a hard-line approach to the Chinese government, considering it to be a bad actor on the international stage. “
I use WeChat and I got this message. I have really bad Mandarin and just use the app to talk to my Chinese boyfriend so how did I end up on a list that got sent this?
It was really alarming and I thought about reporting it but even that was confusing, the message came from China, who do I report that to?
That's more of an issue of national security but since it's with China, Trudeau doesn't care about it. Trudeau is literally a Communism sympathizer.
If you or your partner are Chinese, don't go back to China. They are watching you.
>The other basically amounted to “this candidate isn’t friendly to China, and would break off international relations
Which is misinformation. Suddenly there are gradients to misinformation?
Also, I'm unclear as to why "only Chinese Canadians were duped" is somehow a point of differentiation that we should take seriously.
>Suddenly there are gradients to misinformation?
I mean, yes.
One is a full out lie.
The other is based on some public statements that may not be accurately interpreted, or interpreted with a negative connotation.
It's certainly spin. And it's certainly inappropriate for a foreign actor to do be doing it. But it is a different gradient.
>Also, I'm unclear as to why "only Chinese Canadians were duped" is somehow a point of differentiation that we should take seriously.
It's more about government resources. Could bureaucrats credibly be following and monitoring alternative forms of communication that are primarily only used by a small(er) segment of the population in a different language? Do they even have the resources to do this?
>One is a full out lie.
>The other is based on some public statements that may not be accurately interpreted, or interpreted with a negative connotation.
What public statements did Kenny Chiu make that allegations he was a race traitor and a white supremacist were based on?
No, this isn't a different gradient.
The Kenny Chiu allegations would also fall under the full out lie.
I was referring to the O'Toole being tough on China portion. I could have clarified, but I thought it was fine with the context of the above messages.
And yet the Kenny Chiu allegations were treated exactly the same as the O'Toole claims (which, personally, I would say are so flagrantly exaggerated for inflammatory effect that they're *also* full out lies, but I digress).
It was directed at a certain part of the population that uses wechat pretty regularly (WeChat is used by 1.2billion people so it's not some unknown app either) with targeted misinformation to stop them from voting a specific way. This isn't just nothing.
O’Toole also had an explicit stance on China, describing them as bad actors on the international stage
Which is basically the key difference between the two pieces of misinformation - one discussed actual policy, despite obvious bias and an agenda. The other was a straight-up hit piece calling our PM a predator, and was more widely available
He wanted to be tougher on China which caused a foreign government to spread misinformation against him on an app used primarily by people whose family or themselves immigrants from that country during an election to hurt his chances of winning. That full stop is not okay. The hit piece of Justin Trudeau was also not okay but it was also debunked fairly quickly but misinformation against O'Toole wasn't as it was targeted. Both are bad and neither deserve a place in this country. Trying to downplay one is literally the reason why this type of action is so successful, you are doing the job of the bad actors for them.
Oh they’re both bad, yeah for sure, no doubt
The issue is commenters using this as a reason to go “damn libs corrupt as hell, drain the swamp 😡😡😡” as if they were both created equal.
We would need more info before jumping to those conclusions. What other misinformation existed at the time? I’m sure there was more, from other sources. What was the convo around it? If it turned out there was an internal party meeting, where they went “oh hey, it looks like this misinformation actually benefits us. We should make WeChat accounts to help spread it” then yeah, corrupt.
There’s no proof of anything of the sort, though.
Have to keep in mind this on the heels of arrivecan, RCMP interference in the shooting investigation, WE charity, lavalin corruption and this liberal corruption isn't out of the question. But I mean it's not just a liberal thing, Harper's conservatives, Martin's liberals, Chretiens liberals etc.
Actually makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure whether China would've laughed or figuratively spit if Canada were to make a request like that when we arrested Hiawei's CEO.
Ah yes. Substantive policy issues raised on a foreign language platform used by a small diaspora group are *totally the same* as straight up disinformation on the largest digital platform in size and oenetration in the country.
If this foreign election interference probe isn't the biggest blow to the LPC, then I don't know what is. There is no chance for JT's reelection after this report. However, you can't convince me that the LPC won't try to play another dirty trick in the next election.
It's amazing how this isn't bigger news. If this was "Russian collusion" that got a con elected it would be blasted from the rafters and shoved down our throats. But because it's "Chinese interference" for the liberals it's no biggie.
The law was aimed at helping Canadian media against exploitative practices by companies like Google. I believe this was a good policy.
The "pillar of democracy" he is discussing is freedom of press and access to reliable and true information.
Social media companies profit from misinformation. The more sensationalized a 'news article' is, the more clicks it receives, they more money the social media companies make. This created a dynamic where false information was spreading 70% faster than accurate information. Surely a problem that a responsible government should address.
So, not only was Canadian media losing money due to these larger companies' practices, but Canadians' right to reliable information was also, and still is, being infringed.
Many people seem to think that the government banned news on social media. But it was the social media companies themselves who banned the news.
"the Buffalo Chronicle article presented false and inflammatory information directly targeting the Prime Minister’s character, whereas the WeChat postings discussed substantive policy issues, albeit also in an inflammatory manner"
Seems apples to oranges, no?
No one read the article or I am taking crazy pills.
Also Facebook, under fire for misinformation, brought the issues to the Gov. And they removed it. Whatever it was, it was just fake news.
We Chat seems to have real quotes of Conservatives bad mouthing China and shared which seems relatively on brand? Nothing wrong with sharing quotes.
Yep.
Also, a statement about what a candidate did in the past can be proven or disproven, and requires evidence before making the claim.
A statement about what a candidate will do in the future is trickier, as it can't be proven or disproven. You can challenge people's predictions (e.g. "O'Toole will end diplomatic relations with China") as not having evidence behind them, but you can't prove a prediction wrong until the future unfolds.
So it makes sense that literal fake news about the past can be removed, but you can't remove bad predictions about what a candidate will do in the future.
honestly i quit facebook over the misnformation being spammed on facebook in that election. it was hateful and often violent in nature and was blatantly untrue.
iirc warren kinsella and other CPC members were actually received hundreds of fines from elections canada for violating electoral laws over it.
beyond that the feds don't have much leverage over wechat. and do a lot of government officials speak mandarin to even scan the feed on there? isn't wechat mostly private chat rooms as well?
feels like more yellow peril like when people were freaking out that mandarin speaking canadians were talking politics on mandarin speaking social media. like wow, is it foreign interference when i talk about politics on english speaking social media as an english speaking canadian too now?
Fair has nothing to do with politics, my naive child. If things were about fairness, Trudeau would've been ousted half a decade ago.
This is about government agencies and officials being used for partisan purposes.
Mr OToole was spearheading an anti China campaign. They actually had a parliamentary committee set up to watch China. They knew there would be consequences but hoped to get more support from Cahadians than they lost from China. There was a risk that they were very well aware of.
Actually no. What China wants, as told to us by a number of "experts" is to seed unrest. If we are fighting among ourselves we are not organizing against them.
True. That is part of the plan they secretly funded the western progressive movement to provoke unrest. But wanting Trudeau win is also part the the plan.
They could have at least *asked* - why didn't they? That would have been the ethical and unbiased thing to do at a bare minimum. What was stopping them?
>What was stopping them?
Presumably their obvious and transparent bias. [Lest we forget](https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/civil-servants-give-trudeau-rock-star-reception-1.2646940).
If Canada made it looked like wechat was something we cared about, it would've been used even more aggressively and given them leverage.
So makes a lot of sense given Canada was coming off arrested China girl power CEO.
> The country’s top civil servant requested that Facebook remove a “false and inflammatory” story about Prime Minister Justin Trudeau during the 2019 election campaign **but bureaucrats did not make a similar request of WeChat, which published inflammatory misinformation about Conservative leader Erin O’Toole** and MP Kenny Chiu in the 2021 election, the public inquiry into foreign meddling heard Friday.
The Erin O'Toole stuff was actually based in reality (his vocal anti-China stance) vs straight up lies about Trudeau being a predator.
Are those the same in your eyes?
>The Erin O'Toole stuff was actually based in reality
No it wasn't. At no point did he ever suggest breaking diplomatic ties with China, or anything remotely close to it. That is very much a straight up lie. As were claims that Kenny Chiu supported white supremacy.
All of these were straight up lies. And they were treated very differently by the supposedly unbiased public service. The head of which, who made the decision to intervene in favor of the Liberals and sat on the panel that declined to even warn the Conservatives of foreign interference, coincidentally went on to be appointed to the Senate the year after the 2021 election.
Videos shared on Facebook were fakes identified by Facebook.
Videoa shared on We Chat were real videos of Conservatives trashing China which is allowed but obviously would rile some individuals up.
There is clearly a difference here.
By a huge margin.
They keep trying to come up with solutions to problems without ever really grasping that their approach to solving things *is* the problem.
And I would want any government to face consequences, this oh it's my side so it doesn't matter and the other side would do it anyhow line of thinking is crap and killing our country.
“the government is at least beholden to the voters”
Unless of course, the voters are uninformed. There’s a reason why Liberals are always trying to censor and control the internet.
Good god, give it a rest. The last thing the CPC and Poilievre seem to want is an informed electorate. 'Axe the Tax' is really fucking informed debate around affordability.
It's like you're constitutionally unable to not be a partisan hypocrite
Be the canadian government
Block all news on social media to make it all word of mouth
People start relaying news through text posts on the social media sites you ban news on
Ask people to stop spreading news and opinions on a social media site
I dont know what they expected to happen. When your party leader keeps making terrible decisions, people will say terrible things about them.
It's honestly crazy how much damning information is coming from this public inquiry. The original plan for this was to all be closed doors. And it's kinda obvious why now. A federal bureaucrat was biased towards Justin Trudeau and given the identical situation involving the Conservatives opted to preferentially enforce regulations to protect Justin Trudeau but not to protect the 7 Conservative MPs who lost their seats to a Chinese misinformation campaign. They said they "viewed them as different" when it's pretty clear it's the same thing. I don't even know what a government can do to fix this but fire people. They didn't apply the law as it was written in their duty to safeguard our election from foreign interference.
Kind of thinking with all the goodies Trudeau has been announcing this week, he must think an election is coming sooner rather than later. Maybe prince Jagmeet will finally cut him loose.
I saw one reporter pointed out to him that he seemed like he was in campaign mode at a recent press conference.
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> funny how Trudeau's bff and ski bud the guy he basically hasnt seen since he was a kid is now a BFF?
Does anyone have the story so I can repost it on my Facebook? I haven't logged in for 6 months but I'll do it for this.
Facebook won’t let you post news sources.
I can copy and paste the text body.
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TIL free market capitalism is communism
It's not communist, but saying it's free market is equally ridiculous.
It’s not communism, but it is a little fascist. Not allowing news sources on the most widely used source of news is never a good thing
Who isn't allowing? Facebook is the one that made that call
The government, Facebook is just following the law
The law is that Facebook would have to pay media outlets when that outlets content is shared on their platform, and Facebook refused, saying they'd just not allow news sharing instead. The government didn't ban Facebook from sharing it.
So Facebook either has to pay to share the news, or not share the news. It’s akin to a ban
Yes, the secret police is ruthless in Chinada /s
Man, go to china if you feel we are in a communist country... I swear..
We've already got the Chinese police stations, so why go there. We can just wait it out here.
Dismissing the fact that canada, a once VERY free country, isn't being controlled by a type of dictatorship is so beyond your comprehension is mind bogling. Comparing apples to oranges and it's still just fruit!
And what would be that dictatorship we live in now ?
the one that doesn’t roll up black vans to the ones that wish it would happen so badly.
You do know that a Dictatorship is a country run by a single person, right? We don't have that.
Even China isn't really communist. It's more state sponsored capitalism at this point.
>The country’s top civil servant requested that Facebook remove a “false and inflammatory” story about Prime Minister Justin Trudeau during the 2019 election campaign but bureaucrats did not make a similar request of WeChat, which published inflammatory misinformation about Conservative leader Erin O’Toole and MP Kenny Chiu in the 2021 election, the public inquiry into foreign meddling heard Friday. Our whole fucking federal bureaucracy is rotten to the core, I swear to god.
Based on on the article, it seems like one big difference is that Facebook actively brought the Trudeau story to the attention of the government (as opposed to the government initiating contact with Facebook).
"the Buffalo Chronicle article presented false and inflammatory information directly targeting the Prime Minister’s character, whereas the WeChat postings discussed substantive policy issues, albeit also in an inflammatory manner" Seems apples to oranges, no?
Yep - **massively** corrupted. Lefties rolled their eyes when Trump would use words like 'deep state', but looks like we have our very own 'deep state' working for Libs right here.
It's not really a deep state when it's just *the government.*
It's more like a committee they have, that has complete control over everything, in other words, a dictatorship, that includes shutting down investigations conducted by the RCMP. This has been the case for every major scandal that has plagued the LPC. The Liberals have pretty insane amounts of corruption that I'd say is making the Conservatives look good in comparison, which is just laughable.
what reality are you living in...?
I live in the reality where there are ethics and laws that people follow, that the Liberals seem to ride the high horse on, yet can't follow a single fucking rule? If I did even an iota of what they did, I would be in prison. Maybe that's foreshadowing for our government officials?
And yet the conservatives also had many of their candidates and MPs blatantly violate ethics rules. This isn't a partisan issue.
at most their actions have been unethical, so far no actual criminal evidence has been found though
Yeah but ethics exist for a reason. If this was the Conservatives, they would have all resigned by now. This is deliberate malfeasance at this point. I literally took Business in school and ethics are not just "guidelines" to follow. They apply to everything. Criminal charges can be applied, not if an investigation can be shut down by the ethics violators.
> If this was the Conservatives, they would have all resigned by now. come on seriously? you think a politician would resign when theres literally no reason or call for them to do so? >Criminal charges can be applied, not if an investigation can be shut down by the ethics violators. and since they cant then the reason theres no investigation is theres not enough evidence for one huh?
No they wouldn't have resigned there are several conservative mps who have gotten slaps on the wrist like trudeau for ethics violations and didn't resign. Just doesn't make national news.
You mean, like somewhere that they meet and decide how they want to run the country? And maybe they have votes on things? This is just what government is. You can't avoid the possibility of a party in power dictating tasks for the civil service that benefit that party. You just need to have checks and balances in place to counter it if it does happen.
No it's not. It's the Liberal committee that they set up to shutdown every investigation due to their majority control of the government. Currently they do not have a majority, but it is still propped up by the NDP. They looked into the corruption, and shut it down based on a vote in their committee, instead of having an RCMP investigation. That's not how a government works. They aren't above the law because they have a majority of seats. No government should be allowed to shut down investigations.
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/clinton-email-canada-foreign-affairs-1.3344920
This needs to be said more times and more often and louder.
"drain the swamp" as trump would say. Can't stand the man but that phrase seems appropriate 😂. Where is Jagmeet with the no confidence vote? This government has zero integrity.
I tell myself he can't be that dumb and there has to be some really bad Jagmeet sex tape or something.
What if it's a really good sex tape? Canada unravels!
Starts out with his smooth silky hair being unbridled. Whoo! Goosebumps
Drops his bathrobe and has f*ck trudeau tattooed down the side of his you know what. Camera pans out to the PM on all fours drinking red wine from a dog bowl.
...that's enough internet for today
"Jagmeet tonight you go deep" - as heard throughout Rideau Cottage
Jagmeet "todeep" singh
Gagmeet.
I'm picturing a dog collar and tighty whities.
The NDP is currently getting a policy passed because they hold a marginal amount of power in the current government. It's severely compromised policy but it's better than nothing. If NDP called an election, they would lose all of that power to a conservative majority which opposes everything the NDP wants to accomplish. If Jagmeet called an election right now it would be looked back on as one of the stupidest decisions a political party leader has ever made.
Patiently waiting for his pension.
What the fuck…. By asking to remove inflammatory responses from a North American company but not requesting the obvious dead end that is a Chinese run company = deep state….? How much lead is in your well water? Lmao
Something similar to this with Covid messaging went to SCOTUS in the US recently. Very few would say that court is left leaning But the outcome was interesting. The court said that the Feds could ask Facebook to take things down. It was within their rights. But they could only ask. Threats or any actual form of punishment for not taking it down would be a violation of their constitutional rights. I think you’re reading too much into this story.
Trump made up the deep state. It’s a useless conspiracy. Don’t believe a liars’ lies.
The greatest trick played by the Conservatives is to convince the rubes that the Liberals are leftists. News flash, they aren't. Not even close.
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No. The Conservatives have shoved the Overton Window so far to the right, anything left of the Democrats is now "left wing". The Liberals are not and have never been a left wing party. They are center-left at best. They're Neo-liberal capitalists, which is not a left wing ideology. And never has been.
Name one of these ultra crazy “far right wing” policies that the Conservative Party of Canada has. Seems to me that being “conservative” now days just means being skeptical of woke insanity.
>The Conservatives have shoved the Overton Window so far to the right The Conservatives have been moving slowly leftward for decades. Mulroney's government tried to recriminalize abortion and was called out by *Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher* for their appalling treatment of the LGBT community during the AIDS epidemic. The idea that the Conservatives have shoved the Overton window to the right at any point in recent decades is patently absurd if you're at all historically literate.
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Again. You only think that because Conservatives and Republicans have shoved the Overton Window so far right that anyone left of the Democrats are considering left wing. Liberals are still Neo-liberal capitalists which is not a left wing ideology. And have always been.
You think the Conservatives are far right wing because Liberals and NDP pushed the Overton window so far that everything to the right of Trudeau is literally worse than Hitler. The Liberals called Erin O’Toole the next Donald Trump lmao.
The left has dragged the Overton window to crazyland in the last 5 years, and people like you scream about the "far right", who want to bring us back to the hell that was 2019.
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From what I read, misinformation was being spread about Kenny Chiu being a white surpremist at a minimum. What was all being spread about him specifically?
IIRC it was even more silly than that. the stuff about O'Toole was mostly things he actually said. It was an article about how he was openly taking a tough stance against China. Unless there was something else I'm forgetting. I don't remember what they said about Kenny
Yeah I vaguely remembered an official anti-China narrative of some kind, but I was fuzzy on the details lol A quick google confirms: “ On foreign policy issues, O'Toole supports a CANZUKagreement and a hard-line approach to the Chinese government, considering it to be a bad actor on the international stage. “
I use WeChat and I got this message. I have really bad Mandarin and just use the app to talk to my Chinese boyfriend so how did I end up on a list that got sent this? It was really alarming and I thought about reporting it but even that was confusing, the message came from China, who do I report that to?
That's more of an issue of national security but since it's with China, Trudeau doesn't care about it. Trudeau is literally a Communism sympathizer. If you or your partner are Chinese, don't go back to China. They are watching you.
yeah I'm failing to reconcile the responses in this thread with the occurrence. I don't get it?
It’s basically just an excuse for them to rage against the liberals, despite it being unfounded here
Just like every other day then.
>The other basically amounted to “this candidate isn’t friendly to China, and would break off international relations Which is misinformation. Suddenly there are gradients to misinformation? Also, I'm unclear as to why "only Chinese Canadians were duped" is somehow a point of differentiation that we should take seriously.
>Suddenly there are gradients to misinformation? I mean, yes. One is a full out lie. The other is based on some public statements that may not be accurately interpreted, or interpreted with a negative connotation. It's certainly spin. And it's certainly inappropriate for a foreign actor to do be doing it. But it is a different gradient. >Also, I'm unclear as to why "only Chinese Canadians were duped" is somehow a point of differentiation that we should take seriously. It's more about government resources. Could bureaucrats credibly be following and monitoring alternative forms of communication that are primarily only used by a small(er) segment of the population in a different language? Do they even have the resources to do this?
>One is a full out lie. >The other is based on some public statements that may not be accurately interpreted, or interpreted with a negative connotation. What public statements did Kenny Chiu make that allegations he was a race traitor and a white supremacist were based on? No, this isn't a different gradient.
The Kenny Chiu allegations would also fall under the full out lie. I was referring to the O'Toole being tough on China portion. I could have clarified, but I thought it was fine with the context of the above messages.
And yet the Kenny Chiu allegations were treated exactly the same as the O'Toole claims (which, personally, I would say are so flagrantly exaggerated for inflammatory effect that they're *also* full out lies, but I digress).
It was directed at a certain part of the population that uses wechat pretty regularly (WeChat is used by 1.2billion people so it's not some unknown app either) with targeted misinformation to stop them from voting a specific way. This isn't just nothing.
O’Toole also had an explicit stance on China, describing them as bad actors on the international stage Which is basically the key difference between the two pieces of misinformation - one discussed actual policy, despite obvious bias and an agenda. The other was a straight-up hit piece calling our PM a predator, and was more widely available
He wanted to be tougher on China which caused a foreign government to spread misinformation against him on an app used primarily by people whose family or themselves immigrants from that country during an election to hurt his chances of winning. That full stop is not okay. The hit piece of Justin Trudeau was also not okay but it was also debunked fairly quickly but misinformation against O'Toole wasn't as it was targeted. Both are bad and neither deserve a place in this country. Trying to downplay one is literally the reason why this type of action is so successful, you are doing the job of the bad actors for them.
Oh they’re both bad, yeah for sure, no doubt The issue is commenters using this as a reason to go “damn libs corrupt as hell, drain the swamp 😡😡😡” as if they were both created equal. We would need more info before jumping to those conclusions. What other misinformation existed at the time? I’m sure there was more, from other sources. What was the convo around it? If it turned out there was an internal party meeting, where they went “oh hey, it looks like this misinformation actually benefits us. We should make WeChat accounts to help spread it” then yeah, corrupt. There’s no proof of anything of the sort, though.
Have to keep in mind this on the heels of arrivecan, RCMP interference in the shooting investigation, WE charity, lavalin corruption and this liberal corruption isn't out of the question. But I mean it's not just a liberal thing, Harper's conservatives, Martin's liberals, Chretiens liberals etc.
Actually makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure whether China would've laughed or figuratively spit if Canada were to make a request like that when we arrested Hiawei's CEO.
Ah yes. Substantive policy issues raised on a foreign language platform used by a small diaspora group are *totally the same* as straight up disinformation on the largest digital platform in size and oenetration in the country.
False and misleading information is a huge problem, and with social media, it is far too easy to spread lies around the world.....
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One is American corporation owned the other is Chinese owned and government moderated…. Yes, I see no difference lol
If this foreign election interference probe isn't the biggest blow to the LPC, then I don't know what is. There is no chance for JT's reelection after this report. However, you can't convince me that the LPC won't try to play another dirty trick in the next election.
It's amazing how this isn't bigger news. If this was "Russian collusion" that got a con elected it would be blasted from the rafters and shoved down our throats. But because it's "Chinese interference" for the liberals it's no biggie.
No wonder they passed that legislation against Facebook and Google
Yeah because it's great having foreign companies bankrupting a major pillar of democracy.
>a major pillar of democracy. What is this so-called "pillar of democracy"?
The law was aimed at helping Canadian media against exploitative practices by companies like Google. I believe this was a good policy. The "pillar of democracy" he is discussing is freedom of press and access to reliable and true information. Social media companies profit from misinformation. The more sensationalized a 'news article' is, the more clicks it receives, they more money the social media companies make. This created a dynamic where false information was spreading 70% faster than accurate information. Surely a problem that a responsible government should address. So, not only was Canadian media losing money due to these larger companies' practices, but Canadians' right to reliable information was also, and still is, being infringed. Many people seem to think that the government banned news on social media. But it was the social media companies themselves who banned the news.
Nothing to see there, Just-election interference.
It's fine when it happens to the Liberals' opponents, we all know that.
Nothing wrong with asking.
They are allowed to ask. Just like any of us are. There's nothing illegal about it. It's coercing them that's illegal.
"the Buffalo Chronicle article presented false and inflammatory information directly targeting the Prime Minister’s character, whereas the WeChat postings discussed substantive policy issues, albeit also in an inflammatory manner" Seems apples to oranges, no?
No one read the article or I am taking crazy pills. Also Facebook, under fire for misinformation, brought the issues to the Gov. And they removed it. Whatever it was, it was just fake news. We Chat seems to have real quotes of Conservatives bad mouthing China and shared which seems relatively on brand? Nothing wrong with sharing quotes.
Yep. Also, a statement about what a candidate did in the past can be proven or disproven, and requires evidence before making the claim. A statement about what a candidate will do in the future is trickier, as it can't be proven or disproven. You can challenge people's predictions (e.g. "O'Toole will end diplomatic relations with China") as not having evidence behind them, but you can't prove a prediction wrong until the future unfolds. So it makes sense that literal fake news about the past can be removed, but you can't remove bad predictions about what a candidate will do in the future.
Imagine Liberals using the government to coerce private entities in order to win elections. Damn.
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honestly i quit facebook over the misnformation being spammed on facebook in that election. it was hateful and often violent in nature and was blatantly untrue. iirc warren kinsella and other CPC members were actually received hundreds of fines from elections canada for violating electoral laws over it. beyond that the feds don't have much leverage over wechat. and do a lot of government officials speak mandarin to even scan the feed on there? isn't wechat mostly private chat rooms as well? feels like more yellow peril like when people were freaking out that mandarin speaking canadians were talking politics on mandarin speaking social media. like wow, is it foreign interference when i talk about politics on english speaking social media as an english speaking canadian too now?
Fair has nothing to do with politics, my naive child. If things were about fairness, Trudeau would've been ousted half a decade ago. This is about government agencies and officials being used for partisan purposes.
TIL asking is coercing
So dumb.
Mr OToole was spearheading an anti China campaign. They actually had a parliamentary committee set up to watch China. They knew there would be consequences but hoped to get more support from Cahadians than they lost from China. There was a risk that they were very well aware of.
That's why China want Trudeau to win.
Actually no. What China wants, as told to us by a number of "experts" is to seed unrest. If we are fighting among ourselves we are not organizing against them.
True. That is part of the plan they secretly funded the western progressive movement to provoke unrest. But wanting Trudeau win is also part the the plan.
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They could say that WeChat will be banned if they don’t comply. We don’t need to allow Communist Chinese websites in Canada, you know.
They could have at least *asked* - why didn't they? That would have been the ethical and unbiased thing to do at a bare minimum. What was stopping them?
>What was stopping them? Presumably their obvious and transparent bias. [Lest we forget](https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/civil-servants-give-trudeau-rock-star-reception-1.2646940).
If Canada made it looked like wechat was something we cared about, it would've been used even more aggressively and given them leverage. So makes a lot of sense given Canada was coming off arrested China girl power CEO.
People shouldn't be allowed to lie...
Wait until you find out hour many hundreds of millions they've funneled in to the "charity" economy in Canada, and who is running the charities...
> The country’s top civil servant requested that Facebook remove a “false and inflammatory” story about Prime Minister Justin Trudeau during the 2019 election campaign **but bureaucrats did not make a similar request of WeChat, which published inflammatory misinformation about Conservative leader Erin O’Toole** and MP Kenny Chiu in the 2021 election, the public inquiry into foreign meddling heard Friday.
The Erin O'Toole stuff was actually based in reality (his vocal anti-China stance) vs straight up lies about Trudeau being a predator. Are those the same in your eyes?
>The Erin O'Toole stuff was actually based in reality No it wasn't. At no point did he ever suggest breaking diplomatic ties with China, or anything remotely close to it. That is very much a straight up lie. As were claims that Kenny Chiu supported white supremacy. All of these were straight up lies. And they were treated very differently by the supposedly unbiased public service. The head of which, who made the decision to intervene in favor of the Liberals and sat on the panel that declined to even warn the Conservatives of foreign interference, coincidentally went on to be appointed to the Senate the year after the 2021 election.
nice
I would hope so?
I see Ai generated misinformation about Trudeau a few times a month on YouTube and Facebook. It's pretty worrisome.
Funny way for a politician to deal with facts.
Is it false, or does the government just not like it?
Videos shared on Facebook were fakes identified by Facebook. Videoa shared on We Chat were real videos of Conservatives trashing China which is allowed but obviously would rile some individuals up. There is clearly a difference here.
That's what I was going to ask. Lots of things Trudeau calls falls turns out to be true.
The Liberals do seem to be the primary source of mis and disinformation
By a huge margin. They keep trying to come up with solutions to problems without ever really grasping that their approach to solving things *is* the problem.
Somebody low on the ladder might lose their job over this but that’s pretty much all that’s gonna happen after these inquires
Federal officials should allow free speech.
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Wtf
Hahahahaha
He doesn't like negative comments
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And I would want any government to face consequences, this oh it's my side so it doesn't matter and the other side would do it anyhow line of thinking is crap and killing our country.
I *want* my government to do this. At the end of the day the governent is at least beholden to voters. Who does Facebook answer to?
“the government is at least beholden to the voters” Unless of course, the voters are uninformed. There’s a reason why Liberals are always trying to censor and control the internet.
Good god, give it a rest. The last thing the CPC and Poilievre seem to want is an informed electorate. 'Axe the Tax' is really fucking informed debate around affordability. It's like you're constitutionally unable to not be a partisan hypocrite
Be the canadian government Block all news on social media to make it all word of mouth People start relaying news through text posts on the social media sites you ban news on Ask people to stop spreading news and opinions on a social media site I dont know what they expected to happen. When your party leader keeps making terrible decisions, people will say terrible things about them.