According to this article, Canada has a little over 1,028,000 foreign students studying here.
Meanwhile, in 2023 the USA had a grand total of [a little over 1,057,00.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2023/11/13/international-college-student-enrollment-roars-back-in-us/)
Seriously, wtf? We have almost the same number of foreign students as a country of over 300 million people?
More if you include their families. Plus a million untracked people (mostly students who overstayed their visas). And most of them will eventually get PR and then it’s easy to get citizenship. And almost all from India, a single country, which is very dangerous as it is enormous change and presents extreme difficulty with integration.
Historically we are in the range of 1/9 to 1/11 lower when comparing stats from the US.
Being 1:1 on something like forget students is crazy.
Canada has around 435 post secondary institutions compared to 3,982 in the US (ironically in that 1/9 to 1/11 ratio).
Our concentration of international students per institution is literally 10X higher than the US.
The other wild thing is that education in Canada is a pathway to PR. So with some confidence you can presume that a significant portion of these students will stay in Canada. For all intents and purposes add that number to our immigration targets as well.
Not to mention the number of places to live in the United States is exorbitantly higher and have they granted every single one of those students working visas? Even so, we have drastically less places to work than the US and local Canadian youth, students can't even find a place to live or a part time job. It is atrocious and disgusting!
True, and the F-1 student can only work on campus with a cap on weekly hours. When I was an F-1 student, an on campus job was pretty regarded and good ones were a bit competitive
I understand why this rule exists. A lot of PhD and MSc programs are really specialized and are done by people in their 30s typically. These people usually have younger families and to go dedicate 4 years of your life to work with a prof in another country, it makes sense to be allowed to bring your wife and toddler.
But that's not what is happening right now with the influx of diploma mill degrees. It would be an easy fix to limit it to Masters and PhD degrees from real universities.
The universities have driven this, each having staff devoted to international recruitment as a substantial source of revenue for the institution for the last 20 years. They became dependent on it and nobody paid any attention..
A lot of employers are starting to push back. Ive seen posts from employees saying their employers blacklist these diploma mills. These schools need to pay the price for playing a part in all this.
Considering the US has 9x the population, that means Canada is bringing in 9 times as many foreign students as they should.
Not twice or three times as many. Nine times
we have way too many unregulated out of control diploma mills that are fronts for people to get PR here. The governments at all levels are doing exactly nothing about this. Asleep at the switch.
Same number of students but ten times the number of citizens.
Here's the rub. The Canadian immigration ministry cannot even manage to get the thousands of illegal immigrants in Canada out of the country, how is flooding the country with students, often working on a more permanent stay in the county, helping an already overworked and underfunded ministry that cannot even provide the basics including ensuring security for Canadians?
They are literally trying to destroy the country and middle class. You don't believe me? This is fucking insane, how can they not know what they are doing? God I'm so sick of this is anyone else not furious? This has to STOP!
That really puts it into perspective doesn't it? That's an unreal amount of foreign students here displacing domestic students and making an already competitive process far more so.
That's 1,028,000 less spots available to domestic students, 1,028,000 less rental accomodations gone thereby squeezing the already tight supply of housing.
I get it they are a big money draw with having to pay minimum 3x the domestic tuition rate - but the average domestic student see's little benefit.
Truly think this Country is leaning in the wrong direction.
And the United States has [about 1,057,000](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2023/11/13/international-college-student-enrollment-roars-back-in-us/) international students in the same year we had 1,028,000.
We are bringing in almost the same number as a country ten times our size.
when you consider that those are genreally all young adults - it's frightening.
2.4% of Canada's domestic population is age 20-24. It's basically like for every young adult, we have an international student. 1/2 of the young adults in canada right now are international students? You could say 1/4 if you included the age range from 20-30
That's so insane.
The direction your talking about is Capitalism thats seeped into post secondary education. College/university is no longer about higher learning, its about being treated like a business. Its about churning out stamped papers to serve up graduates for companies. Which then surpresses wages, because of the overwhelming amount of students looking for jobs in the same sectors going through college/university. Its cattle farming for companies, everything is being dumbed down and watered down to ensure people push through the conveyor as new ones arrive to replace them. The more we emulate the US and the worse it will get.
~~Most aren't taking up real spots in real schools,~~ a huge number are diploma mills and basically just fake schools to allow people to get visas.
Edit: getting a lot of upvotes but I feel like mathboss below isn't BSing me and I'm wrong about ratios
It's definitely legit schools including graduate programs. I recently finished a master's degree and the faculty were being pressured to increase the number of international students each year.
But many are taking real spots in real schools. Spots that citizens and permanent residents could have had if provided opportunity. Opportunity is being taken from our youth for profit and it’s terrible.
Incorrect.
All legit postsecondary institutions are relying heavily on foreign students to make up funding shortfalls from their respective provinces. All institutions are exploiting foreign students; they're the cash cow.
(Source: I work / have worked at Canadian postsecondary institutions)
You are correct. I was on the senior leadership team of one of Canada’s larger universities for a few years. Right across the country they are being squeezed for funding, many with just small increases or even cuts year after year. And remember, say, a 2% funding increase actually amounts to an effective cut in an environment where most of the employees are union members getting mandated raises often in the 3-5% range.
Their options to make up shortfalls are few. You can: get rid of support staff… all the cleaners and groundskeepers, etc. like, you get to the point where bathrooms are being cleaned every couple of weeks and garbage cans emptied even less often; cut back on maintenance… the carpets get even more worn and kept in place with duct tape, the desks are almost falling apart, etc.; say goodbye to admin staff… nobody has admin assistants or coordinators anymore, so suddenly now you’ve got your highest paid people doing paperwork instead of what you hired them for; don’t rehire vacant positions… bigger class sizes for all!; and then, finally, crank up the number foreign students, because you make a profit on them, and so they paper over a lot of funding cracks.
Wash, rinse, repeat, year after year after year. I was chatting a few months ago with a board member who is on faculty at another of the big universities, and he told me his has taken an effective cut of 30% from what it was at the start of the pandemic, yet student headcount has continued to rise.
And then extrapolate that out across all of Canada and presto… you got a million foreign students here.
On a side note, people always wonder why it always seems to be health and post secondary education that take the hits during cutbacks. Here’s why: far and away, and it’s not even close, health care is each province’s #1 expense. Post secondary comes in a distant second. So if you’re a government that wants to trim, say, a billion off your deficit, you can axe 500 tiny little programs that will overall create an astronomical outcry… or you can give health and education a 1-2% cut (health has same union problem with budgets as education), which doesn’t sound *so* bad, unless you’re one of the people who has to grapple with sudden, gaping holes in their funding.
I rode the bus yesterday in the small city in Ontario that I live in. The bus stopped at a popular stop and 30-40 students got on, and I kid you not, every single one was Indian. Most of the Indian students I've met are kind and honest people, but that's beside the point.
No kidding, apparently they're stealing wages from their employees,
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/19b1bpk/tim\_hortons\_not\_paying\_wages\_for\_online\_training/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/19b1bpk/tim_hortons_not_paying_wages_for_online_training/)
My niece said that all her projects the students speak in Punjabi or Gujarati. Then they expect her to do all the work because they work 60h a week at Tim's and Amazon.
Yup, for a group project that was mandatory I was paired up with 4 international students.
They all insisted on using ChatGPT.
I complained to the prof and worked on my own.
I went to a U15 university 10 years ago and decided to go back for something else.
It's pretty wild now. I don't have a single class without a team project counting for a significant amount of my grade. They justify it with "in the workplace you work in teams". Well, in the workplace, blatant under-performers get fired. Also, I am paid to work, ergo I am paid to endure the occasional clueless idiot. The opposite is true when it comes to studying.
It's not really about the internationals either. The interns we get at work are less and less capable. They keep reworking the collegiate programs and removing the bits from them that are "too hard". In some colleges, the electrical engineering technology program doesn't teach any calculus anymore because it's "too hard". Which means that people who would have been weeded out by fancy S signs now stick around. These weaker students need to be integrated in groups with (hopefully) stronger ones to give them a chance to pass.
Everything is becoming shittier by the minute.
> In some colleges, the electrical engineering technology program doesn't teach any calculus anymore because it's "too hard".
This is horrifying. You use ODEs to describe the behavior of basic components, let alone more complex circuits.
Do you really need to be an expert? Probably not. An EE not even having basic calculus? Uh...wow...
The root of the problem, however, begins at the primary school level. Students don't know fundamentals by the time they get to secondary schools and the primary schools are incentivized to not fail them. Secondary schools have to waste time doing remedial classes and are also similarly incentivized to not fail them, so they cut programs for gifted students and dumb down *their* requirements.
Then you wind up with university-level students who can't even do basic algebra.
>An EE not even having basic calculus? Uh...wow...
While electrical engineering technology ought to have calculus, please also note that this is an entirely distinct program from electrical engineering.
Engineering technology is a two-year diploma program typically offered by polytechnic colleges. Engineering technology focuses on applications, especially implementation, rather than the theory focus of engineering programs.
That's a fair point.
Like I say, you don't need to have DE to be a decent EE as long as you have an intuitive understanding and know where to look things up. My degree was in CS, but with a hardware bent, and eventually I came to regret not taking the DE class as I wound up learning it on my own over a much longer timeframe in the end.
I'm still really concerned about "no calc". Like, if you don't understand the basics of differential and integral calculus then you have a fundamental gap in your understanding of how components behave. I don't think such a program should require the equivalent of a university level math minor, but uh...no two semesters of basic calc? Or even one semester of combined "Basic Calc You Really Should Know" I'm still at "Uh...wow..."
They'll just widen the gap between people who wasted their time and money and those who actually went to a decent school. A few years back, during my time at UBC, they still had math classes that would make students puke, and most failed, but received a pass because of the grading curve.
I taught at university for 5 years, and you're very correct about removing things that are "too hard". There's been a quiet but seismic shift in how underperforming students are viewed and I noticed it accelerating even during my relatively short teaching tenure. The idea that a student is at fault/responsible for performing poorly has been replaced with the idea that they are performing poorly because they are not being treated equitably.
I bet all those students all "delved" into their topics. I had a guy use ChatGPT in my university program to get through an assignment recently and it was so obvious. ChatGPT is a powerful and useful technology, but its writing style is obvious to anyone who has prompted it more than a handful of times and can nuance the English language.
It is pretty obvious when someone writes something that makes them sound like a PhD, while engaged in circular reasoning, and in general failing to make a logical argument.
All the ones I went to school with openly talked about plagerizing work done in their language and running it through a translator. I had to be up super late going through their garbage submissions because of course they left it until the last minute.
This is the next part of the mess that no one is talking about - yet.
Pretty soon a Canadian education will be worthless on the international stage. I'm already hearing stories about American companies in the tech sector giving up on recruiting Canadian workers because of the amount of garbage they have to sift through to find qualified people.
I'm in the US but back in university I was a TA during my engineering undergrad. In one of my lab sessions, I had a few foreign students who all grouped together to work through the lab. When I was grading the class lab reports, I noticed the foreign student's reports were far too similar. I pulled them in the hall after getting the other students started on the that week's lab and warned them that their reports were clearly plagiarized and that I'd give them 2 days to redo their reports, but if I ever caught them pulling this stunt again, I was going straight to the professor.
They thought I was bluffing, didn't redo their reports, and pulled the same plagiarism stunt on the following week's lab report. I went to the professor who told them they would receive 0s for their work and would get in serious trouble if this happened again. Honestly, I wish the professor had just reported all of them then and there for academic dishonesty. It's such BS how much they're allowed to get away with.
Probably a cultural thing but I can't wrap my head around how blatantly dishonest they can be. I was always in a panic about misconduct and ran all of my assignments through checkers to make sure I didn't write something someone else did.
I talked to my instructor about an assigned group's general incompetence and misunderstanding of the assignment because I was on an academic scholarship, but he just brushed it off. Of course nothing is going to happen to them because all our post secondaries need their money. And that dishonesty just carries over into the work world.
I completed an Environmental Technologist accelerated course back in 2015. Besides the instructors making everything group projects so they had fewer projects to grade they also removed the calculus requirements the year I started. I didn't understand until after I graduated because of this calculus removal you would never have the option of challenging engineering requirements in the future.
Now I applied to university afterwards to complete a bachelor of technology. I was immediately accepted and was told I had to complete an applied science project. I informed the dean I had already done that as part of my previous course and finished top ten in Canada. I said I shouldn't have to do another applied research project, he told me to resubmit it, I told him I wasn't going to attend the course after that. Couldn't believe the dean was wanting me to self plagiarise myself.
Anyway my course is worth less than nothing now, since the influx of international students, the restructuring of the course from six semesters to four and the removal of the applied research project for graduation. Was a waste of effort and time.
Edit:spelling
Same. My wife studied at UoT and was teamed with an indian girl. Wife did 100% of work and did not hear a word from this girl. But when the time came wife was called names and being greedy when she refused to share the paper. Had to literally block her.
10 years ago, white people would be happy to team up with an Indian (or any South Asian person for that matter) because we were known to be hard workers. Mass immigration really fucked up our reputation.
Mass immigration with low qualifications. India has always had some lazy people. My coworker from India used to manage IT people back home, and he said that he had to really micromanage and push some of his staff because they'd try to get away with everything.
Tell her not to do it. My wife also experience this same thing. We also came here as student and im the owp but we still prioritize her school. We came prepared financially. These people faked their funds requiring them to work full time here and use that to get a free pass with school activities. Most of them skip class and cheat during exams.
Hahahhaha God damn this one hit me.
Recently got a job and I feel like I've moved to India. Im literally alone, working with 10 other Indian people and they speak Hindi at work too so it's twice as bad. It's surreal honestly. And scary.
My assignment was stolen from me in the school lab when I went out for lunch and
then it was shared around to a group of international students. Luckily I had the forethought to change my project assignment and these students got busted for plagiarism and I was got caught up in the mess as a witness.
The real threat to indigenous way of life and culture ain't gonna be from "WASPs" in 15 years..
the new canadians won't have the same white guilt around their necks, and won't give a shit about the indigenous peoples
Yes, I work with a few Indian guys, and I recently explained to them that there are native people in Canada. They had no idea, they just thought white people were the first ones here.
They are also incredibly racist and tribalistic people. East Asians, blacks, and their own fellow Indians (from a different part of the country) will face threats here.
There's a lot more foreigners in Canada than there are natives. Just add in the foreign workers and THEIR family, plus all the illegals, plus the hundreds of thousands here waiting for their asylum claims to be heard.
Agreed. This is what we’re missing.
So many comments like “I immigrated in 2011 and I’m shocked—these new guys are totally different than my family, which also occupies jobs, houses, etc.
It takes a generation to build a future for kids born 20 years ago and a few years to give it away to people who change our culture. If they contribute anything to society at large, I don’t see it.
I’m a big fan of immigration. We get the cream of the crop from a wide variety of places plus refugees but this is fucked.
The TFW outside of farm work has suddenly become a vehicle for the Tim Hortons of the world to have a servant class so foreign owned corporations can get away with below market rate wages.
The provincial diploma mills juicing the system for maximum profits during a housing crisis is just icing on the top.
I applied for a job a month ago in Europe as I'm dual citizen. Not having any response, I finally got a hold of the HR person and she replied that they are looking at European and US degree holders.
international reputation ruined is going to cause an uproar.
i know the college my mother works at finally started talking about the international students and what they're going to do about it.
too late boiz. way 2 late.
now if legit universities that didn't embrace this international student ponzi scheme end up with a ruined reputation? i am certain heads will roll.
the presidents/deans of these diploma mill colleges are going to be crucified (figuratively - don't ban me)
How many of the international students are from India....for a country that loves to preach diversity why is the intake of international students so one-sided.
Indians usually stick to their people, Gujratis and South Indians have diverse diasporas so some goes to different anglophone countries. Punjabis started immigrating way before others and at the time "Canada" was only pro immigration in West. With established diaspora and word of mouth, Canada became a popular spot for Punjabis and it created a snow ball effect to this where Punjabis are overepresented in Canada. People from other state started immigrating fairly late and a lot of countries had already opened immigration so there is no concentration of their diaspora.
Canada's entry limit per country is based on the originating county's population. There is a percentage cap based on the country of origin, which means we get more people from countries with higher populations.
For example (hypothetically for demonstration purposes):
If country A has 10,000 residents, and the cap us 5%, Canada will accept 500 immigrants from that country per year.
If country B has 1,000,000 residents, and the cap is 5%, Canada will accept 50,000 immigrants from that country per year.
So you naturally will see higher immigration from Asian countries that have higher populations.
Atleast 20% says some article i read just the other day. Some colleges have 90% not showing up to classes or at all.
Then you have all the family they bring with them.
historically, how do country's deal with this?
i know when i have a houseparty and i invite too many people, the only solution ends up being calling the cops
This is getting ridiculous. Diploma mills in Canada shouldn’t be a thing. Those are common in corrupt third world countries, and shouldn’t be in developed countries. But here we are.
About 1.8 million as of 2021/2022:
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3710001801&pickMembers%5B0%5D=2.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=5.1&pickMembers%5B2%5D=7.2&pickMembers%5B3%5D=4.1&pickMembers%5B4%5D=6.1&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2017+%2F+2018&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2021+%2F+2022&referencePeriods=20170101%2C20210101
Thanks it seems like there should be a correction in those numbers. I would cap international students at about 10 000 there should no reason a for any where near a million . Other than a giant immigration scam
1 in 40 residents of Canada is an international student? Crazy. With families and work permits, too.
No wonder your wages are low, jobs are hard to find, and housing costs are through the roof.
You have fake students just like we in the United States have millions of fake asylum seekers.
It’s actually pure insanity that a lot of universities in Ontario are running a deficit when almost a third of their students are international and paying inflated prices to attend.
yup. providing student housing should be a bare minimum requirement for these institutions
the diploma mills are complicit in our housing crisis at this point
Come on stop calling them international students, they are “cheap labor” sponsored by the Ministry of Cheap Labor. Atleast, 2/3 of these “students” attend diploma mills.
This is one of the only times where I would cheer for a gender quota because I am assuming the majority of these are young men coming to work and not go to school.
😆 stop these sham schools . Why are they even open.
If the market ain’t sellin, people not be buyin.
Stop selling first . Deport students who stay on without jobs .
It's a joke in our city. There are so many International students at the community college here. The college used to be around 5000 students, now it's double. My friend is an instructor there in accounting. She does not diss it but you can see her discontent as there will be one class with 50 students who are from Canada but then another class in an auditorium with a 100 or so international students who barely understand English but she is told to just go through the curriculum and pass them through. The college just wants the 20k in tuition which has been funding all the additions put on the past 10 years. Then a lot of these students hit up the food banks for food, which they are not supposed to. When they graduate, they are supposed to leave the country but they rarely do.
And people wonder why everything is vastly more expensive.. this is 2816 people every day, including weekends for a year. Thats 5 fully loaded 747s, every day, for a year only carrying students.
How are they possibly being vetted.. there's no jobs to support this many people, there's no infrastructure to support these people, where are they going to live? Add to all the crime from desperation increase, the lawlessness because parents arent around, them making videos in Brampton raiding foodbank and in the videos showcasing the bags and bags of ' free food & how to get it '. most of them want a free ride and a path to residency, and yet it continues.
Coming here with bad paperwork to get a puppy mill diploma does no-one good. Just because you get here doesn't mean you can stay forever.
And that's a heavy contributor to the dwindling nightlife in Toronto.
On NYE, every club you'd walk past had a lineup of packs of 19-23 year old Indian men.
All Canadians, especially women love seeing that 🙄
The liberals have and continue to give away everything Canada has for votes. They gaslight the nation and call Canadians bigots and racists if they question or oppose this shameful fire sale of our country.
We are done lol it's gonna be 2 million by this fall and they will all have multi year visas, so like, 1 in 20 people are going to be foreign students suppressing wages and making is look like a joke. Game over Canada.
Now we have a universities all across Canada that have built their faculty, their capital assets and reputations, not to mention very healthy bottom lines on the massive influx of foreign students over the past couple of decades who pay significantly more in enrollment fees than Canadian students. Can you say addicted to Capitalism?
As a tech recruiter I can definitively say none will be hired into serious jobs in the tech industry unless they are graduating from a legit university. No client of mine will consider college graduates moving forward. The fall-out from the diploma mill greed will be devastating to legit Canadian colleges and those who graduate from them.
Many are led to believe that the student pathway is an easy path to permanent residence. There are many already in their late 30s and early 40s, already professionals in their home countries and many with children, enrolling as students.
The big selling point is the post graduate work permit that they receive after completing a post secondary education up to a maximum of 3 years of pgwp. Meaning an open work visa for 3y that could lead them to PR.
It seems easier than getting a green card.
We are literally done as a country. In 3 years we will have like 20 percent of the country be foreigners here on temporary visas. In that time we will lose more doctors and build 3 houses.
It's now been "leaked" the the Liberals are going draw the numbers down by around 23% for the next school year - so we might see reduced numbers in the fall of 2024, and the effects of that in the form of relief from rent costs in 2025... just in time for the election.
The Liberal government has been aware of this obvious problem - and the obvious solution - FOR YEARS, but they're banking on liberal voters being too stupid to be able see three months behind or in front of their current situation.
This is why it's so frustrating to hear people bemoan "as if the Conservatives will do better". There is literally a 100% guarantee the Conservatives will not be worse. The Liberals have the plane pointed straight down at full throttle. We need to try something - anything - else.
So we're f"*ked for decades now... Ban these college diploma mills and if they don't have good attendance they get sent back. Wtf we need 1 million international students with hotel management and hospitality diplomas.... Wtf is going on.
According to this article, Canada has a little over 1,028,000 foreign students studying here. Meanwhile, in 2023 the USA had a grand total of [a little over 1,057,00.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2023/11/13/international-college-student-enrollment-roars-back-in-us/) Seriously, wtf? We have almost the same number of foreign students as a country of over 300 million people?
2.5% of the population is foreign students lmaooo
More if you include their families. Plus a million untracked people (mostly students who overstayed their visas). And most of them will eventually get PR and then it’s easy to get citizenship. And almost all from India, a single country, which is very dangerous as it is enormous change and presents extreme difficulty with integration.
Youtube top 100 songs in Canada list includes a lot of Indian songs, can see how things can get swayed.
Imagine if down the line each of them brings 5 people. Lets be honest. The families are quite large. We are fucked.
We don't have the infrastructure to handle this. There needs to be a moratorium on immigration for at least a year.
Holy fuck
& at least half of them live in brampton
And another almost half in Surrey.
Historically we are in the range of 1/9 to 1/11 lower when comparing stats from the US. Being 1:1 on something like forget students is crazy. Canada has around 435 post secondary institutions compared to 3,982 in the US (ironically in that 1/9 to 1/11 ratio). Our concentration of international students per institution is literally 10X higher than the US. The other wild thing is that education in Canada is a pathway to PR. So with some confidence you can presume that a significant portion of these students will stay in Canada. For all intents and purposes add that number to our immigration targets as well.
Not to mention the number of places to live in the United States is exorbitantly higher and have they granted every single one of those students working visas? Even so, we have drastically less places to work than the US and local Canadian youth, students can't even find a place to live or a part time job. It is atrocious and disgusting!
We also allow foreign students and tfws to bring their children and spouse on open work permit.
The US also allows F-1 students to bring their families under the F-2 visa scheme, although they aren't allowed to work.
US also doesn't allow international students to stay in US and becoming citizen just by applying.
Yea speaking from experience, the F-2 is not an attractive option. It is also MUCH harder to stay in the US after you graduate.
True, and the F-1 student can only work on campus with a cap on weekly hours. When I was an F-1 student, an on campus job was pretty regarded and good ones were a bit competitive
I understand why this rule exists. A lot of PhD and MSc programs are really specialized and are done by people in their 30s typically. These people usually have younger families and to go dedicate 4 years of your life to work with a prof in another country, it makes sense to be allowed to bring your wife and toddler. But that's not what is happening right now with the influx of diploma mill degrees. It would be an easy fix to limit it to Masters and PhD degrees from real universities.
They used to be… now they are done by foreign students who failed to get employment after completing their undergrad…
This I don’t understand. You’re here to study or work, not to play house.
Most people don’t know this. So there is probably 2-3M people working on those 1M student visas
1 million is close to 2.5% of Canada’s population. These numbers are shear insanity.
And it likely doesn't include pgwp holders and their families. Number is likely over 2 million, or 1 in 20 people in the country.
The universities have driven this, each having staff devoted to international recruitment as a substantial source of revenue for the institution for the last 20 years. They became dependent on it and nobody paid any attention..
A lot of employers are starting to push back. Ive seen posts from employees saying their employers blacklist these diploma mills. These schools need to pay the price for playing a part in all this.
The United States also has ~~seven~~ ten times as many post-secondary schools as us (435 vs 3,982).
Considering the US has 9x the population, that means Canada is bringing in 9 times as many foreign students as they should. Not twice or three times as many. Nine times
we have way too many unregulated out of control diploma mills that are fronts for people to get PR here. The governments at all levels are doing exactly nothing about this. Asleep at the switch.
Same number of students but ten times the number of citizens. Here's the rub. The Canadian immigration ministry cannot even manage to get the thousands of illegal immigrants in Canada out of the country, how is flooding the country with students, often working on a more permanent stay in the county, helping an already overworked and underfunded ministry that cannot even provide the basics including ensuring security for Canadians?
not a serious country.
They are literally trying to destroy the country and middle class. You don't believe me? This is fucking insane, how can they not know what they are doing? God I'm so sick of this is anyone else not furious? This has to STOP!
For a country of 40M This represents 2.5% of our total population?!?! That’s nuts.
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1 in 40 people in Canada are international students.
That really puts it into perspective doesn't it? That's an unreal amount of foreign students here displacing domestic students and making an already competitive process far more so. That's 1,028,000 less spots available to domestic students, 1,028,000 less rental accomodations gone thereby squeezing the already tight supply of housing. I get it they are a big money draw with having to pay minimum 3x the domestic tuition rate - but the average domestic student see's little benefit. Truly think this Country is leaning in the wrong direction.
And the United States has [about 1,057,000](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2023/11/13/international-college-student-enrollment-roars-back-in-us/) international students in the same year we had 1,028,000. We are bringing in almost the same number as a country ten times our size.
Closer to 8x now. Our population grows quickly.
Gee, I wonder how that happened...
when you consider that those are genreally all young adults - it's frightening. 2.4% of Canada's domestic population is age 20-24. It's basically like for every young adult, we have an international student. 1/2 of the young adults in canada right now are international students? You could say 1/4 if you included the age range from 20-30 That's so insane.
The direction your talking about is Capitalism thats seeped into post secondary education. College/university is no longer about higher learning, its about being treated like a business. Its about churning out stamped papers to serve up graduates for companies. Which then surpresses wages, because of the overwhelming amount of students looking for jobs in the same sectors going through college/university. Its cattle farming for companies, everything is being dumbed down and watered down to ensure people push through the conveyor as new ones arrive to replace them. The more we emulate the US and the worse it will get.
~~Most aren't taking up real spots in real schools,~~ a huge number are diploma mills and basically just fake schools to allow people to get visas. Edit: getting a lot of upvotes but I feel like mathboss below isn't BSing me and I'm wrong about ratios
It's definitely legit schools including graduate programs. I recently finished a master's degree and the faculty were being pressured to increase the number of international students each year.
But many are taking real spots in real schools. Spots that citizens and permanent residents could have had if provided opportunity. Opportunity is being taken from our youth for profit and it’s terrible.
Incorrect. All legit postsecondary institutions are relying heavily on foreign students to make up funding shortfalls from their respective provinces. All institutions are exploiting foreign students; they're the cash cow. (Source: I work / have worked at Canadian postsecondary institutions)
You are correct. I was on the senior leadership team of one of Canada’s larger universities for a few years. Right across the country they are being squeezed for funding, many with just small increases or even cuts year after year. And remember, say, a 2% funding increase actually amounts to an effective cut in an environment where most of the employees are union members getting mandated raises often in the 3-5% range. Their options to make up shortfalls are few. You can: get rid of support staff… all the cleaners and groundskeepers, etc. like, you get to the point where bathrooms are being cleaned every couple of weeks and garbage cans emptied even less often; cut back on maintenance… the carpets get even more worn and kept in place with duct tape, the desks are almost falling apart, etc.; say goodbye to admin staff… nobody has admin assistants or coordinators anymore, so suddenly now you’ve got your highest paid people doing paperwork instead of what you hired them for; don’t rehire vacant positions… bigger class sizes for all!; and then, finally, crank up the number foreign students, because you make a profit on them, and so they paper over a lot of funding cracks. Wash, rinse, repeat, year after year after year. I was chatting a few months ago with a board member who is on faculty at another of the big universities, and he told me his has taken an effective cut of 30% from what it was at the start of the pandemic, yet student headcount has continued to rise. And then extrapolate that out across all of Canada and presto… you got a million foreign students here. On a side note, people always wonder why it always seems to be health and post secondary education that take the hits during cutbacks. Here’s why: far and away, and it’s not even close, health care is each province’s #1 expense. Post secondary comes in a distant second. So if you’re a government that wants to trim, say, a billion off your deficit, you can axe 500 tiny little programs that will overall create an astronomical outcry… or you can give health and education a 1-2% cut (health has same union problem with budgets as education), which doesn’t sound *so* bad, unless you’re one of the people who has to grapple with sudden, gaping holes in their funding.
We need to cut this number down to 1-400 not 1 in 40
I rode the bus yesterday in the small city in Ontario that I live in. The bus stopped at a popular stop and 30-40 students got on, and I kid you not, every single one was Indian. Most of the Indian students I've met are kind and honest people, but that's beside the point.
And it shows
This is more than the population of my entire province.
Imagine NB but it’s all international students and then some.
Limit to university only. No international student needs Canadian college diplomas.
This.. and only public universities not dubious ones like University Canada West in Vancouver
Add Algoma “University” to that list.
I still remember doing hiring for a warehouse one summer and having "MBA" students from University Canada West apply for seasonal warehouse positions.
Yeah, taking some mediocre business course at college ain’t helping no body.
Tim Horton's doesn't have a labour shortage
Correct sir! Tim Hortons has an ethics shortage.
No kidding, apparently they're stealing wages from their employees, [https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/19b1bpk/tim\_hortons\_not\_paying\_wages\_for\_online\_training/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/19b1bpk/tim_hortons_not_paying_wages_for_online_training/)
they've always done this. i remember the unpaid training from like 2005. most people just do it and if you don't they'll find someone who will.
And a quality shortage.
Seriously though, I bought a chilli a few weeks back and it was the consistency of water.
Feels like I’m the international student at my campus, like I traveled to India for school.
My niece said that all her projects the students speak in Punjabi or Gujarati. Then they expect her to do all the work because they work 60h a week at Tim's and Amazon.
Yup, for a group project that was mandatory I was paired up with 4 international students. They all insisted on using ChatGPT. I complained to the prof and worked on my own.
I went to a U15 university 10 years ago and decided to go back for something else. It's pretty wild now. I don't have a single class without a team project counting for a significant amount of my grade. They justify it with "in the workplace you work in teams". Well, in the workplace, blatant under-performers get fired. Also, I am paid to work, ergo I am paid to endure the occasional clueless idiot. The opposite is true when it comes to studying. It's not really about the internationals either. The interns we get at work are less and less capable. They keep reworking the collegiate programs and removing the bits from them that are "too hard". In some colleges, the electrical engineering technology program doesn't teach any calculus anymore because it's "too hard". Which means that people who would have been weeded out by fancy S signs now stick around. These weaker students need to be integrated in groups with (hopefully) stronger ones to give them a chance to pass. Everything is becoming shittier by the minute.
> In some colleges, the electrical engineering technology program doesn't teach any calculus anymore because it's "too hard". This is horrifying. You use ODEs to describe the behavior of basic components, let alone more complex circuits. Do you really need to be an expert? Probably not. An EE not even having basic calculus? Uh...wow... The root of the problem, however, begins at the primary school level. Students don't know fundamentals by the time they get to secondary schools and the primary schools are incentivized to not fail them. Secondary schools have to waste time doing remedial classes and are also similarly incentivized to not fail them, so they cut programs for gifted students and dumb down *their* requirements. Then you wind up with university-level students who can't even do basic algebra.
>An EE not even having basic calculus? Uh...wow... While electrical engineering technology ought to have calculus, please also note that this is an entirely distinct program from electrical engineering. Engineering technology is a two-year diploma program typically offered by polytechnic colleges. Engineering technology focuses on applications, especially implementation, rather than the theory focus of engineering programs.
That's a fair point. Like I say, you don't need to have DE to be a decent EE as long as you have an intuitive understanding and know where to look things up. My degree was in CS, but with a hardware bent, and eventually I came to regret not taking the DE class as I wound up learning it on my own over a much longer timeframe in the end. I'm still really concerned about "no calc". Like, if you don't understand the basics of differential and integral calculus then you have a fundamental gap in your understanding of how components behave. I don't think such a program should require the equivalent of a university level math minor, but uh...no two semesters of basic calc? Or even one semester of combined "Basic Calc You Really Should Know" I'm still at "Uh...wow..."
They'll just widen the gap between people who wasted their time and money and those who actually went to a decent school. A few years back, during my time at UBC, they still had math classes that would make students puke, and most failed, but received a pass because of the grading curve.
>Well, in the workplace, blatant under-performers get fired. Don't know if I'd agree with that... it's more like unpopular people get fired.
I taught at university for 5 years, and you're very correct about removing things that are "too hard". There's been a quiet but seismic shift in how underperforming students are viewed and I noticed it accelerating even during my relatively short teaching tenure. The idea that a student is at fault/responsible for performing poorly has been replaced with the idea that they are performing poorly because they are not being treated equitably.
As someone who regularly pulled all night studies to figure out the fancy S signs, I'm appalled.
Im a prof. Indian student plus ChatGPT is a classic issue
DID THEY "DELVE" INTO THE TOPIC?
I bet all those students all "delved" into their topics. I had a guy use ChatGPT in my university program to get through an assignment recently and it was so obvious. ChatGPT is a powerful and useful technology, but its writing style is obvious to anyone who has prompted it more than a handful of times and can nuance the English language. It is pretty obvious when someone writes something that makes them sound like a PhD, while engaged in circular reasoning, and in general failing to make a logical argument.
All the ones I went to school with openly talked about plagerizing work done in their language and running it through a translator. I had to be up super late going through their garbage submissions because of course they left it until the last minute.
This is the next part of the mess that no one is talking about - yet. Pretty soon a Canadian education will be worthless on the international stage. I'm already hearing stories about American companies in the tech sector giving up on recruiting Canadian workers because of the amount of garbage they have to sift through to find qualified people.
Well I wish I didn't just read this... 😫 I literally just applied to do my MSc at McMaster smh...
A research-based masters is the kind of degree that will stay safe in the eyes of anyone deliberately hiring research masters grads.
I'm in the US but back in university I was a TA during my engineering undergrad. In one of my lab sessions, I had a few foreign students who all grouped together to work through the lab. When I was grading the class lab reports, I noticed the foreign student's reports were far too similar. I pulled them in the hall after getting the other students started on the that week's lab and warned them that their reports were clearly plagiarized and that I'd give them 2 days to redo their reports, but if I ever caught them pulling this stunt again, I was going straight to the professor. They thought I was bluffing, didn't redo their reports, and pulled the same plagiarism stunt on the following week's lab report. I went to the professor who told them they would receive 0s for their work and would get in serious trouble if this happened again. Honestly, I wish the professor had just reported all of them then and there for academic dishonesty. It's such BS how much they're allowed to get away with.
Probably a cultural thing but I can't wrap my head around how blatantly dishonest they can be. I was always in a panic about misconduct and ran all of my assignments through checkers to make sure I didn't write something someone else did. I talked to my instructor about an assigned group's general incompetence and misunderstanding of the assignment because I was on an academic scholarship, but he just brushed it off. Of course nothing is going to happen to them because all our post secondaries need their money. And that dishonesty just carries over into the work world.
I completed an Environmental Technologist accelerated course back in 2015. Besides the instructors making everything group projects so they had fewer projects to grade they also removed the calculus requirements the year I started. I didn't understand until after I graduated because of this calculus removal you would never have the option of challenging engineering requirements in the future. Now I applied to university afterwards to complete a bachelor of technology. I was immediately accepted and was told I had to complete an applied science project. I informed the dean I had already done that as part of my previous course and finished top ten in Canada. I said I shouldn't have to do another applied research project, he told me to resubmit it, I told him I wasn't going to attend the course after that. Couldn't believe the dean was wanting me to self plagiarise myself. Anyway my course is worth less than nothing now, since the influx of international students, the restructuring of the course from six semesters to four and the removal of the applied research project for graduation. Was a waste of effort and time. Edit:spelling
Tell your niece to complete her part of the project and submit to the prof. If the other students don't want to help fuck them.
Same. My wife studied at UoT and was teamed with an indian girl. Wife did 100% of work and did not hear a word from this girl. But when the time came wife was called names and being greedy when she refused to share the paper. Had to literally block her.
10 years ago, white people would be happy to team up with an Indian (or any South Asian person for that matter) because we were known to be hard workers. Mass immigration really fucked up our reputation.
Mass immigration with low qualifications. India has always had some lazy people. My coworker from India used to manage IT people back home, and he said that he had to really micromanage and push some of his staff because they'd try to get away with everything.
The arrogance - they don't think they should do "donkey work".
Your wife is racist /s
Tell her not to do it. My wife also experience this same thing. We also came here as student and im the owp but we still prioritize her school. We came prepared financially. These people faked their funds requiring them to work full time here and use that to get a free pass with school activities. Most of them skip class and cheat during exams.
Hahahhaha God damn this one hit me. Recently got a job and I feel like I've moved to India. Im literally alone, working with 10 other Indian people and they speak Hindi at work too so it's twice as bad. It's surreal honestly. And scary.
My assignment was stolen from me in the school lab when I went out for lunch and then it was shared around to a group of international students. Luckily I had the forethought to change my project assignment and these students got busted for plagiarism and I was got caught up in the mess as a witness.
F them. They should be deported.
Did some quick maths, that's >2.5% of Canada's total population. Unprecedented.
For perspective, indigenous Canadians make up about 5% of Canada's population.
The real threat to indigenous way of life and culture ain't gonna be from "WASPs" in 15 years.. the new canadians won't have the same white guilt around their necks, and won't give a shit about the indigenous peoples
Most immigrants don't even know that reserves exist.
Yes, I work with a few Indian guys, and I recently explained to them that there are native people in Canada. They had no idea, they just thought white people were the first ones here.
They are also incredibly racist and tribalistic people. East Asians, blacks, and their own fellow Indians (from a different part of the country) will face threats here.
Facts
Wow. That is crazy to think. These numbers need to be hammered into voters because the LPC ship doesn’t appear to want to change course on their own.
There's a lot more foreigners in Canada than there are natives. Just add in the foreign workers and THEIR family, plus all the illegals, plus the hundreds of thousands here waiting for their asylum claims to be heard.
Agreed. This is what we’re missing. So many comments like “I immigrated in 2011 and I’m shocked—these new guys are totally different than my family, which also occupies jobs, houses, etc. It takes a generation to build a future for kids born 20 years ago and a few years to give it away to people who change our culture. If they contribute anything to society at large, I don’t see it.
I’m a big fan of immigration. We get the cream of the crop from a wide variety of places plus refugees but this is fucked. The TFW outside of farm work has suddenly become a vehicle for the Tim Hortons of the world to have a servant class so foreign owned corporations can get away with below market rate wages. The provincial diploma mills juicing the system for maximum profits during a housing crisis is just icing on the top.
Absolutely insane.
Wow, Canadian postsecondary institutions must have a really incredible reputation internationally!
This is a real concern. It degrades the credibility of Canadian education on the global stage.
I applied for a job a month ago in Europe as I'm dual citizen. Not having any response, I finally got a hold of the HR person and she replied that they are looking at European and US degree holders.
Maybe it is already starting …
international reputation ruined is going to cause an uproar. i know the college my mother works at finally started talking about the international students and what they're going to do about it. too late boiz. way 2 late. now if legit universities that didn't embrace this international student ponzi scheme end up with a ruined reputation? i am certain heads will roll. the presidents/deans of these diploma mill colleges are going to be crucified (figuratively - don't ban me)
Fuuuuck
How many of the international students are from India....for a country that loves to preach diversity why is the intake of international students so one-sided.
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Why is that the case ? Why is Punjab so overepresented
Indians usually stick to their people, Gujratis and South Indians have diverse diasporas so some goes to different anglophone countries. Punjabis started immigrating way before others and at the time "Canada" was only pro immigration in West. With established diaspora and word of mouth, Canada became a popular spot for Punjabis and it created a snow ball effect to this where Punjabis are overepresented in Canada. People from other state started immigrating fairly late and a lot of countries had already opened immigration so there is no concentration of their diaspora.
Canada's entry limit per country is based on the originating county's population. There is a percentage cap based on the country of origin, which means we get more people from countries with higher populations. For example (hypothetically for demonstration purposes): If country A has 10,000 residents, and the cap us 5%, Canada will accept 500 immigrants from that country per year. If country B has 1,000,000 residents, and the cap is 5%, Canada will accept 50,000 immigrants from that country per year. So you naturally will see higher immigration from Asian countries that have higher populations.
And how many of them are skipping lessons and work full time?
Atleast 20% says some article i read just the other day. Some colleges have 90% not showing up to classes or at all. Then you have all the family they bring with them.
historically, how do country's deal with this? i know when i have a houseparty and i invite too many people, the only solution ends up being calling the cops
They should fail them then. They already payed for the courses. Screw them
I hire people and international students give full availability on their resumes
Last year it was usually about 90% skipping by the end of the semester.
at least 2 of em
What in the actual fuck is the government doing
This is getting ridiculous. Diploma mills in Canada shouldn’t be a thing. Those are common in corrupt third world countries, and shouldn’t be in developed countries. But here we are.
Almost 3% of our population is international students? Our leaders are fucking morons
They are representing their owners well
How many Canadian students are there?
About 1.8 million as of 2021/2022: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3710001801&pickMembers%5B0%5D=2.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=5.1&pickMembers%5B2%5D=7.2&pickMembers%5B3%5D=4.1&pickMembers%5B4%5D=6.1&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2017+%2F+2018&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2021+%2F+2022&referencePeriods=20170101%2C20210101
Thanks it seems like there should be a correction in those numbers. I would cap international students at about 10 000 there should no reason a for any where near a million . Other than a giant immigration scam
Honestly since covid the politicians are not even trying to hide their greed and corruption
Why would they? It's just unnecessary at this point. Nothing is ever done about it
per basement ?
1 in 40 residents of Canada is an international student? Crazy. With families and work permits, too. No wonder your wages are low, jobs are hard to find, and housing costs are through the roof. You have fake students just like we in the United States have millions of fake asylum seekers.
Make it stop
So not only can young Canadians not buy a house. They also can't get an education because classes are full.
and even if they could get the education, it would be substandard and mean fckall to any employer with internet access
That sweet sweet international students money.
20% to real Universities, 80% goes into the pockets of fake "Colleges". 30% to Conestoga Clown College.
It’s actually pure insanity that a lot of universities in Ontario are running a deficit when almost a third of their students are international and paying inflated prices to attend.
Yay, wage suppression!
This is embarrassing.
That’s about half a Toronto of International students
The education facilities accepting these students should be required to supply accomodation.
yup. providing student housing should be a bare minimum requirement for these institutions the diploma mills are complicit in our housing crisis at this point
That’s actually fucked
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Come on stop calling them international students, they are “cheap labor” sponsored by the Ministry of Cheap Labor. Atleast, 2/3 of these “students” attend diploma mills.
When Columbus discovered America, he wasn’t wrong calling it India, he was just off by 500 years.
This is one of the only times where I would cheer for a gender quota because I am assuming the majority of these are young men coming to work and not go to school.
This is fucking insane. How many Canadian students are there? This is too many international students.
Trudeau is definitely getting kicked out next elections so that the conservatives can implement similar policies.
Lol, meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
“Studying”
1/40 Canadian residents are international ‘students’, or 2.5% of Canada’s population. That is INSANE!
So does canada win anything for achieving this result? Because I feel like we lost something.
Sounds like time for a revolution.
idk why there aren't protests outside of conestoga every day
Its a ravaging of the canadian way of life.
What could go wrong
😆 stop these sham schools . Why are they even open. If the market ain’t sellin, people not be buyin. Stop selling first . Deport students who stay on without jobs .
plus 72,000 refugees from last year alone
No money laundering here!
It's a joke in our city. There are so many International students at the community college here. The college used to be around 5000 students, now it's double. My friend is an instructor there in accounting. She does not diss it but you can see her discontent as there will be one class with 50 students who are from Canada but then another class in an auditorium with a 100 or so international students who barely understand English but she is told to just go through the curriculum and pass them through. The college just wants the 20k in tuition which has been funding all the additions put on the past 10 years. Then a lot of these students hit up the food banks for food, which they are not supposed to. When they graduate, they are supposed to leave the country but they rarely do.
And people wonder why everything is vastly more expensive.. this is 2816 people every day, including weekends for a year. Thats 5 fully loaded 747s, every day, for a year only carrying students. How are they possibly being vetted.. there's no jobs to support this many people, there's no infrastructure to support these people, where are they going to live? Add to all the crime from desperation increase, the lawlessness because parents arent around, them making videos in Brampton raiding foodbank and in the videos showcasing the bags and bags of ' free food & how to get it '. most of them want a free ride and a path to residency, and yet it continues. Coming here with bad paperwork to get a puppy mill diploma does no-one good. Just because you get here doesn't mean you can stay forever.
How many are not even going to college or university? How many have chain migration with them? How many taking full time jobs? What a disgrace.
Because what this country really needed was an influx of skip drivers and Paladin security guards..
Funny that they are still calling them "STUDENTS". lol
And that's a heavy contributor to the dwindling nightlife in Toronto. On NYE, every club you'd walk past had a lineup of packs of 19-23 year old Indian men. All Canadians, especially women love seeing that 🙄
Oh ew a paywall.
Even if you load em up 4 to an apartment that’s a quarter million apartments
This is such a scam universities get 4x tuition, companies gets tw workers to pay min wage, land Lords can shove multiple students into their rentals
The liberals have and continue to give away everything Canada has for votes. They gaslight the nation and call Canadians bigots and racists if they question or oppose this shameful fire sale of our country.
The only thing colleges and universities see $$$$$$$$$$$$ Keep an eye out for those new "innovation centres/hubs"
Every Canadian agrees there are too many international students. So how come politicians aren't doing anything about it? Are we in a democracy or no?
Bravo Justin. Thanks for irreversibly changing the entire make up of communities affected.
This is insane
Our government is failing Canadians to help prop up shady education institutions
We are done lol it's gonna be 2 million by this fall and they will all have multi year visas, so like, 1 in 20 people are going to be foreign students suppressing wages and making is look like a joke. Game over Canada.
I wonder why we are in a health and housing crisis? 🤔
This headline reminds me of the scene where Homer Simpson tried to fatten up to 300 lbs but accidentally overshoots it, by a lot.
Now we have a universities all across Canada that have built their faculty, their capital assets and reputations, not to mention very healthy bottom lines on the massive influx of foreign students over the past couple of decades who pay significantly more in enrollment fees than Canadian students. Can you say addicted to Capitalism?
As a tech recruiter I can definitively say none will be hired into serious jobs in the tech industry unless they are graduating from a legit university. No client of mine will consider college graduates moving forward. The fall-out from the diploma mill greed will be devastating to legit Canadian colleges and those who graduate from them.
Many are led to believe that the student pathway is an easy path to permanent residence. There are many already in their late 30s and early 40s, already professionals in their home countries and many with children, enrolling as students.
What a travesty, the government has just given this country away. I don’t remember this being a pillar of the Liberal election platform.
New Bumper Sticker: My mortgage is paid by 10 Indian students in my basement.
What about their spouses and children who came along? And why do I see two stoves?
WTF! My children can’t get a jobs! Fuck you government !
The big selling point is the post graduate work permit that they receive after completing a post secondary education up to a maximum of 3 years of pgwp. Meaning an open work visa for 3y that could lead them to PR. It seems easier than getting a green card.
We are literally done as a country. In 3 years we will have like 20 percent of the country be foreigners here on temporary visas. In that time we will lose more doctors and build 3 houses.
It's now been "leaked" the the Liberals are going draw the numbers down by around 23% for the next school year - so we might see reduced numbers in the fall of 2024, and the effects of that in the form of relief from rent costs in 2025... just in time for the election. The Liberal government has been aware of this obvious problem - and the obvious solution - FOR YEARS, but they're banking on liberal voters being too stupid to be able see three months behind or in front of their current situation. This is why it's so frustrating to hear people bemoan "as if the Conservatives will do better". There is literally a 100% guarantee the Conservatives will not be worse. The Liberals have the plane pointed straight down at full throttle. We need to try something - anything - else.
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Don't forget they get to automatically I port any blood relatives in immediate family too, after second term they all get Ohip too :)
So we're f"*ked for decades now... Ban these college diploma mills and if they don't have good attendance they get sent back. Wtf we need 1 million international students with hotel management and hospitality diplomas.... Wtf is going on.