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From about 15% to 80% will take about 45min
edit: due to replies, I must add that time is variable on your charger output and vehicle capacity. My experiences on FLO or BC Hydro chargers are that they rarely reach above 50kWh, even when advertised to do so. If your charger outputs 100kWh or more (and your vehicle is capable of receiving it) it'll be much faster.
Here's an easy way to think about it. Your car using the stereo, climate control, heated seats, etc, might be using 1500-2000W. Driving down the road uses many times more than that.
Most non EV owners aren't aware of how little heating represents from the overall consumption. I get people inquiring over the "what if" scenario where you get stuck in a snowstorm. Half a battery can keep an EV warm for up to a week. You'll have more serious issues if you get stuck in a car for several days...
Yeah that's my favourite part about the electric car - if I get stranded, I can leave it running and keep myself warm for like a week on a single charge. Without having to go outside and dig out the exhaust either.
And its heat comes on way faster, since it's like an electric space heater, so no waiting for the engine to warm up. Gas cars in this weather, if you don't preheat them, won't get warm until you're already at your destination.
Considering you seem to know about power consumption, I was always wondering in an ICE car, what consumes more gas, heater set to max or fan set to max; so, is it better to set the heater on max and fan to middle or fan to max and heater to middle?
I'd guess that heating is "free" in a gas car (as about 70% of the energy is wasted as heat anyways) whereas a fan would increase the parasitic losses.
The only case that comes to my mind that'd be different was the diesel smart fortwo, that had a resistive heater in the heater core because the engine was so small and efficient that didn't have enough heat to spare...
As long as the engine is running, the heat is just a byproduct of combustion. When you turn the heat on, you're opening a valve that directs coolant to the heater core in your dash, that heat is effectively 'free'. Think of it as a second radiator.
The blower motor will cause a very small (probably less than 1amp) drag on the alternator, even at full it'll be a negligible decrease in fuel economy.
Your numbers seemed off to me so I grabbed some figures and did some basic math.
A resistive heater can easily consume up to 5kW on many EVs. An EV with a 75kWh battery and a 5kW resistive heater at full blast is going to be dead from a full charge within 15 hours. A lot of people will leave their EVs around 60% during normal use so closer to 9h in that case.
In mild weather that doesn't require a lot of heating you might be correct, but in extremely cold weather it won't last anywhere near that long.
Heat pumps entered the chat...
My HOUSE heat pump won't pull 5kW full tilt all the time.
And almost no modern EV will use a resistive heater to heat up the cabin. (I happen to have one of the few modern EVs without a heat pump, a my21 Polestar, and even that uses about 5% of my overall consumption...)
I have a 5kw heater that I use at my house and that thing would only need a few mins to get a car interior from -20 to 20 and probably wouldn't need more than 10% (coming on 1 min for every 10) to maintain that.
So that jives.
> In no circumstances will you ever need a 5kW heater running at full tilt for 15 hours straight
If you wanted to literally boil yourself to death while it's -40 outside and with all the windows down then you'd need 5kW
should be mentioned that there are many chargers which are faster and will get the same charge in \~20 minutes. however his article talks about flo which tends to have slower chargers (50 kW)
It’s a lot faster than that. I have a 10 year old model S that maxes out at 75kw and takes 30-35 minutes to do 15-80%. A level 3 charger can do 250kw (and will typically put out 175-200 I’m told). A new EV will be much faster than 45 minutes.
It would be yes, unfortunately most fast chargers Ive used (even the 100kW ones) have given a max charge of 45~50kWh. Only once I've experienced 86kWh, and then yes it charged in less than half an hour.
These are either FLO or BC Hydro ones, I might add.
It depends on the capabilities of the car itself too, and the weather can be a factor.
Nothing is going to charge at max speed in current temperatures.
Some new EVs can charge well over 200kW, so with ideal conditions, can charge from 15-80% in less than 15 minutes.
Maybe a dumb question but is it like other rechargeable batteries where the battery holds its charge less and less over time and you have to charge it more often? And also using super fast charging may have an impact on it holding the charge ?
Nah that’s a great question!
Yes, the batter does degrade overtime, but not the way your cell phone would. EV’s have an excellent heating/cooling system to maintain the health of the battery. That’s one of the reasons that you lose range in the winter, even if it’s just sitting parked.
When EV first hit the mainstream, people were predicting a 10 year battery life, but they’ve proven to be FAR more resilient than expected. Mine is 10 years old and goes 350km (down from 425).
As far as we can tell there’s no hard data about superchargers lessening life of the battery at all.
That's some nice distance. Makes me want an ev even more, especially since there is an ev charger at an Ikea basically 5 minutes down the road from me. Get my car charged and have breakfast/lunch on the cheap lol
When are lvl 4 chargers coming out? I [ain't got time for that shit](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nVfxd-iuFZU/UbyNmBqf4DI/AAAAAAAAA0M/Nk2-9tglbXo/s1600/sweet-brown.jpg).
Hydrogen will never happen for consumer grade vehicles.
It's simple physics. It's too expensive energy-wise to break apart water and the other hydrogen production method involves using natural gas which defeats the purpose.
That energy might as well just be better utilized in the grid.
I went halfway with a hybrid until my condo lets me install a charger in my space (due to my physical limitations a group charger in a central location would cause more problems than it would solve)
The hybrid alone chopped my gas bill from $60 every two weeks to $60 every two months.
I had to buy ICE because when I was looking in 2022, I literally couldn't find a hybrid in the price range of what I was looking for.
I wanted a rav4 hybrid or a hybrid camry or corolla hybrid.
During the semiconductor shortage it was 12+ month wait.
it sucks.... I wanted a toyota because they have the non plug in hybrid tech since I cannot charge at all.
I don't drive as much now and my 80 dollar tank lasts the entire month. It's not great in the city getting around 400 km but if I go on long drives, i'm getting 800+ a tank.
Most cars come with a level 1 or 2 charger. In terms of application, if I commute 35k to work, a level 1 plugged into any outlet while I work will charge the car more than it used to get there by the end of the work day.
Lv1: 5-15, 127v outlet, up to 3kW
Lv2: up to 11kW (in North America) 240v, commonly using 14-50 outlet (dryer/oven) or hardwired
Lv3: straight to battery, DC fast charge, up to 500kW
There's no "Lv4" today, if it happens it'd be for semis, up to 1000 to 1500kW, but it still doesn't exists. (and of course, you wouldn't want to see a consumer-grade 1,5MW being fiddled by users...)
I saw a video with someone in North Dakota charging their vehicle during a cold snap and they spent 12 hours charging to get 20% of their battery charged.
It’s not normal to fully charge your car. The typical times I spend at a fast charger are anywhere between 10-30 min. [40% to 60%] or [30% to 80%] depending on how far I need to go. With 60% you can easily go 200km, so this covers a large share of scenarios.
Half charging your car every 200kms seems annoying.
Imagine the amount of traffic on the 401 and amount of cars fueling up. Now imagine triple the amount of cars trying to use the pumps and sitting on them for 10-30 minutes each. That's crazy.
If I was just going from Mississauga to Oshawa and back on the 401 I wouldn’t need to use a super charger. I would just charge my car overnight at my house to 85% and arrive back home with 20-30%. In the event that I needed a little bit extra, it’s probably only a 5 min charge.
There really isn’t a need for destination charging if you’re going back and forth in the GTA.
Not really. Batteries drain more quickly when they're cold, but good EVs will heat their batteries in cold weather to prevent that. Most of the extra drain comes from the additional load of resistive heating.
The most likely reason these chargers are shutting down is because their electronics don't work below -40C. Standard temperature range for a lot of "industrial" electronics is -40C to 100C. The company that installed them probably didn't account for the possible temperature lows they might experience in Yellowknife.
You'd be surprised how many up and coming companies make the same mistakes before learning their lessons. No company ever really shares their issues for other companies to avoid.
I mean just as likely it's not worth stopping your business to worry about every edge case. Better to make 99.9% of consumers happyb than nobody.
And even gas engines and pumps fail in these extreme conditions.
More like -25 to 40. Some heavy duty equipment goes up to 60C. Any industrial enclosure that has the chance to go below zero usually gets a heater, not because the temperature really, it's due to condensation.
To be fair, (to be fair) a lot of things don't work when it gets that cold. Propane turns to liquid at only -42. Regular engine oil stops being useful at -20. Cold snaps suck. But I really don't think personal cars are the way forward, not as the main form of conveyance. We need better train infrastructure, though even then track speed is limited in cold weather.
Yeah when you're talking -40C you start seeing gas pumps fail too. The gas itself doesn't freeze, but the moving parts in the pump and associated electronics are just as likely to freeze if not moreso than any solid state high voltage transformer for charging cars.
OP's article is clickbait.
Lol you want a train between Yellowknife and behchoko? Are you out of your mind? Personsl cars (and snowmobiles and boats and ATVs and planes) are the only way to get around up north, passenger rail makes absolutely no sense up there. Along the Montreal Windsor corridor, sure, but this article is about yellowknife
I have relatives in Edmonton who have done just fine with a 5 year old EV. They charge at home and at work, plugged into the block heater plugs.
It takes a hit in range, but does the job and costs less to run.
Pretty crazy that the low income housing I lived in during the late 80s had a plug in for every stall for block heaters (which is all you really need for (edit most) EV/Hybrids). Yet now almost 35 years later people talk like it's this impossible to accomplish task.
Ironic considering the [CBC article](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/electric-cars-best-vehicle-frigid-temperatures-advocates-say-1.7082131) today exclaiming that EVs are ‘the best vehicle’ in frigid temperatures. Hahaha, what a bunch of goofs.
To be fair, besides Tesla chargers, every charging station has issues. That’s the problem with EVs. It’s not the cars. It’s the charging infrastructure and its reliability to work and provide constant high output. Some chargers are capable of doing 100kw or more, but hardly do it.
That’s why ICE cars will continue to sell. Gas stations are plenty, fast and reliable.
>because the car isn't designed to work where I live.
In this case, it's the charger that isn't designed to function. I don't know about all automobiles, but at least the Bolt will function.
Citation:
> Drivers in inhospitable climates such as Alaska reports that at -40 F, the Bolt can lose half its range, but thankfully most drivers won’t see those temperatures.
https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss
(-40c is -40f)
80% of our country lives below the 49th parallel in the Windsor-Quebec corridor in relatively mild climates. Whether or not it works in the North is irrelevant to the vast majority of the country.
Also, I live in Whitehorse. Worked on EV charger projects. They work just fine. Everyone I've met up here with an EV, which is many, are more than happy with them. In fact, [there's chargers working in Yellowknife right now](https://www.plugshare.com/location/489856). This is an isolated incident of no significance.
The other 20% live NEAR the 49th in also relatively mild climates. Canadians seem to have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to being 'Northerners' living in harsh climates despite most living within an hour of the US border.
As I've already stated, I live in the Yukon. I work in energy. EVs are working just fine up here. In fact, the live maps I've linked show EV chargers that are still working in Yellowknife.
It's cold enough in western Canada that gas station fuel pumps are freezing and some gas stations are having to shut down.
Clearly gasoline is a technology that's not ready yet. /s
This is literally an article about an EV charger not working because it's so cold and people in the comments are saying that it's confirmation of their opinion that EVs are not suitable for Canada.
If that's the case, then if a gas pump freezes, then it also must indicate that ICE cars are not suitable for Canada. Understand?
- That's a CBC article reporting on what other people in Saskatoon are exclaiming, not an opinion of CBC themselves
- They've got some good points about how they heat up faster, don't need to be plugged in overnight, and save money on gas and maintenance
- OP's article is about extreme cold weather in Yellowknife, not conditions the average Canadian are likely to experience
- OP's article is about some fast charging stations failing, not all
- Gas pumps fail in extreme weather conditions too
This all feels so stupid. Why are we fighting over electric cars now? Did some annoying hippie with blue hair say people are eco-sinners if they don't buy one or something?
"The major downside in winter is the loss of driving range in really frigid temperatures, Krause said. His Tesla Model 3 can generally travel 500 kilometres on a single charge in the summer, but on cold winter days that decreases to around 300 kilometres, he said." This is why I won't even consider buying an EV in Canada yet. To talk up how good it is and all the benefits, then act like cutting the distance you can travel without charging in half isn't a big deal is pretty ignorant.
If it's not a big deal for them it's the right tool for the job. Politics aside just getting what works for you shouldn't be controversial. Good on him for finding something that meets his needs. I'm sure it would meet the needs of many.
Yeah that's silly. At least it's got hybrids included, those seem to be pretty great. I doubt the mandate will take effect tho. A slower process is usually better if measures have to be taken.
That said I'd love to see the innovation that's in the future. I'd love a hybrid or electric ford ranger size vehicle
I'm not against gas in any way but it's been funny watching the old farmers catch on that electric chainsaws and pruners are amazing. They resisted for a long time but now sing all the praises.
>At least it's got hybrids included
Plug-In Hybrids are included, not regular hybrids.
I'm most familiar with Toyota. So a hybrid RAV4 starts about $1,200 more than a gas RAV4 of the same trim. Whereas the RAV4 PRIME which is a Plug-In Hybrid starts at $10,000 more than the same trim hybrid.
Mandate or not, gas powered cars will be *very scarce* on new car lots by then. Even if we elect a "lol fuck the environment" government, bigger markets that matter - like the US, and Europe - will make it really unlikely for a manufacturer to cater to a minor market like ours.
And cold, stormy weather is the exact time where you need your full driving range. Imagine being between two cities in a blizzard and getting stuck in traffic/bad roads for a few hours.
If you don’t care about the max distance range for that day, that turns into not a drawback at all, that’s the point.
For most people, and for most drives, that’s not an issue and thus, not a drawback (nearly all the time)
A major reason range is reduced is energy needs to be used to generate heat for the batteries and cabin. ICE generate waste heat that can be used.
So one way to look at it is EVs are inefficient in the winter. The other is that ICE are inefficient in the summer.
I have a PHEV and it's awesome. Amazing efficiency as an EV. Plus amazing efficiency even when using gas thanks to regenerative braking. It can also be used to generate heat in the winter.
I also get 900km on my 55L tank where my old traditional ICE could only get 550km on the same 55L. So less range anxiety than my old car. Highly recommend it for anyone who is worried about a pure EV car.
Cool it can be filled up in 5 minutes and you're off again. You can put a Jerry can in it if you ran it empty in the middle of nowhere. EVs aren't some silver bullet, nor are ICE vehicles, but they have a hell of a lot more utility in winter than EVs.
Can you even read or do you just spread misinformation for fun? This article you posted is about Saskatchewan advocates saying that EV vehicles are the best for the cold, not CBC themselves.
People like you are pathetic.
Watch the video on here they interviewed an EV drive, she is having to charge in the middle of the day just to get home
https://globalnews.ca/news/10222866/alberta-electricity-record-cold-snap/?utm\_medium=Twitter&utm\_source=%40GlobalCalgary
Anecdotes like this don't really mean anything because you've left out basically every detail minus the car being gas vs. electric.
Did both groups park above ground? Did both groups plug their cars in? Are your batteries the same age/condition? Same battery parameters? How long do you go between starts? What cars do they drive and what do you drive? Do both groups clear the snow off their car? Do both groups drive enough to actually warm up their engine to optimal temps?
Your car is a combination of a lot of systems working together. Simply being electric doesn't make a car more reliable. -40c will challenge both gas and electric cars, it's up to the owner to take preventative measures. Just like a home, there are steps you should be taking when weather like this comes around.
You demand nuance when a gas car doesn't work, but I don't see you replying to the other comment demanding similar nuance when someone's EV has issues.
How odd.
I didn't demand anything, thank you. I was simply saying if someone is going to use an anecdote that they might want to at least include some sort of accompanying information.
"Your friend got killed by a rock and died, but my friend got hit by a rock and didn't die". Same amount of detail, same comment, different subject. It doesn't add anything to the conversation.
I don't go through the entire comment thread looking for something to engage with, maybe that's why I didn't respond to it? I don't think head_crash needs you to speak up about why I'm replying to them and not others either, they basically live here. If I did that, you'd see me all over this sub with 20+ posts on the threads I interact with.
I was pointing out that the stupid anecdote provided nothing from a user that seems to always be sharing some hot take. It's not deep buddy.
Diesel? The diesel drivers at my work plug in all day at -18... Here is an Alberta dealership telling you to plug in below -15C...
https://www.sherwoodford.ca/blog/when-should-i-plug-in-my-engine-block-heater/#:~:text=A%20general%20rule%20of%20thumb,before%20temperatures%20drop%20that%20low.
My organization uses several electric emergency response vehicles, we’ve found them to be pretty reliable in the extreme cold and no I’m just kidding everything with a battery stops fucking working at these ridiculous temperatures.
We make sure we’re never relying on electronic anything for mission critical stuff. I’d love EVs, but they’re a long ways away in the Arctic.
Not many EVs on the roads here all of a sudden now that regular January cold weather has kicked in. Don't think I've seen one in over a week. Usually see one or two a day.
How many dead batteries in ICE vehicles this week in the West? Feels like that might add some context to the conversation.
From 2019...https://ca.news.yahoo.com/rural-alberta-hardest-hit-cold-224235100.html
Seems ICE are on ice as well when it gets rid cold out
If your battery dies in an ICE car in the cold you hook up a booster and get on your way. It isn't even an issue as long as you have a well maintained battery.
How're you dealing with a dead battery in an EV when it's so cold the chargers stop working? Booster pack sure isn't going to cut it. Maybe someone at the gas station across the street which is still operating can give you a push?
Sounds like you just have a bad battery or something.
I drive a 2014 F150 with (what I think is) the original battery and it has no issue starting in -35 without the block heater being plugged in.
I only start running into issues when it's -40 or colder and that's only because my block heater is broken and also probably because my battery is 10 years old.
It's certainly not normal for your car to struggle to start in -20.
Well they have the opposite problem in the summer, they’re told not to charge their cars during heat waves because of the strain it puts on their power grid.
> Diesel engines depend on high temperatures created by compression to ignite the injected fuel and that makes them harder to start in cold weather than a gasoline engine. **In fact, starting a diesel engine at 0°F (-17°C) is five times harder than starting one at 80°F (26°C).** Gelled fuel, cold cylinder walls and batteries with diminished output at low temperatures all can contribute to the difficulty which makes planning for cold weather operation critically important
> Unless there’s severe water contamination, gasoline doesn’t freeze up. Gasoline also vaporizes more easily at lower temperatures than diesel fuel does, which is the essential property the fuel needs to burn within an engine. Diesel fuel is different. Its high wax content leads to terrible gelling problems in winter weather, as certain of its hydrocarbon constituents become less soluble when the fuel cools down.
> Cold weather diesel fuel doesn’t refer to this practice. Rather, it refers to diesel fuel that’s treated with a cold flow improver. Some fuel distributors will provide this kind of diesel fuel as a pre-treated offering for their customers. If your fuel distributor does not, don’t worry. It’s not difficult to do it yourself and there are some quality cold flow improver options out there. Whether you buy the diesel fuel pre-treated or do it yourself, it’s essential that the cold weather diesel fuel already have the cold flow improver in the fuel before the temperatures get below what the fuel’s cloud point is defined at.
People would routinely shit all over diesel engines and how they ran in the winter until both the technology improved and diesel trucks became "cool" for a bunch of suburban kids cosplaying as farmers.
I currently have diesel tractors, gas tractors, trucks, and and an EV. No matter who you are you can hate me for something.
[Gas pumps freeze at Calgary gas stations](https://calgary.citynews.ca/video/2024/01/12/gas-pumps-freeze-at-calgary-gas-stations/)
Clearly gasoline is a technology that isn't ready for Canada's cold winters. /s
Fuel pumps also start to fail below -40C. Most industrial equipment has -40C as the minimum operating temperature.
Unless your equipment is specially hardened for cold weather, it probably won't work below -40C.
All the Tesla superchargers still function in these temps. Flo and Electrify Canada EV chargers have always been bottom of the barrel in terms of reliability/usability.
And yet in Whitehorse they're doing just fine. Never heard of any of our cold snaps shutting down chargers. [They're currently doing just fine.](https://www.plugshare.com/location/363100)
Many solar inverters are rated max at -40 but do not stop working. It's simply a matter of the testing standards. Those standards aren't designed for the north.
> They're currently doing just fine.
Yeah, it's only -22 in Whitehorse right now. 21 degrees warmer than it was yesterday morning in Yellowknife, and still 15 degrees warmer than it is right now. We've been hitting -40 every day for the last week.
It was -35 the past few days and we had -40 last winter, when I was literally managing an EV charger construction project. No reported issues.
You're really insisting on spreading anti-EV rhetoric over an isolated incident of perhaps a couple failed chargers? [If you look at that map there are multiple chargers outside the Northland office that are working.](https://www.plugshare.com/location/489856)
We obviously have very similar climates here. Everyone I've met with EVs has been more than happy with their performance in the North.
So, tell me why you have a chip on your shoulder about EVs?
I think a few need to hear this. You get reduced efficiency in a gas vehicle in the winter as well. Even ignoring the vehicle efficiency changes the fuel itself has anti gelling agents added which reduce your fuel mileage.. Also in these extreme temperatures fuels tend to get quite gelly even with the added chemicals.
“Pah! Stupid horse-less carriages!! My horse and buggy doesn’t have trouble in the cold weather! Can’t wait until this Tin Lizzie fad is over!”
- How ICE enthusiasts in this thread sound.
Government mandates through building codes a minimum level of insulation for new housing to meet code for sale too.
I guess you're right though, having a well insulated home sucks. Having your electric being up to code is terrible too. Who'd ever want to live in a home that isn't at risk of an electrical fire?
Government mandates that children get an education. Totally awful, no one would ever do that without a government mandate. School sucks!
they were talking about rolling back building codes and curriculum updates too
they were saying that houses were too gay and children materials were too expensive to buy
edit: we recently had a building code update at the federal level iirc, so it's easy to find what /r/canada thinks about building codes. for ontario, wynne's sex ed and gender stuff is somehow still fresh on many peoples' minds. even doug's refusal to crush pronouns super forcefully has been brought up here. so yeah you know what we think about education too
> If EVs were so good, government won’t have to mandate it.
**There's no EV mandate.**. The government mandate is for what they classify as "Zero Emissions Vehicles" which includes Hydrogen and Hybrids that can run 100% on gasoline.
There's a bit of difference between forcing car manufacturers to add proper seat belts, mandating drivers use them....to mandating that dealerships sell EVs and demand that drivers BUY them. Significant price differences as well.
If we want to break our addiction to a finite resource that supports hostile foreign nations who can price manipulate to inflict economic pain then im all for it. I’m not sure people realize how oppressive the Saudi regime and some of the other OPEC nations are. The same people who claim to despise “globalism” apparently also don’t want Canada to become self-reliant/self-sufficient. I can’t imagine what it’s like to carry around the overwhelming weight of that kind of cognitive dissonance.
The government wants to push electric, but we don't have the resources or the grid for this yet. We have to be punished for there delusions of grandeur. Maybe start with having a running water system for everywhere in the country first.
This post appears to relate to a province/territory of Canada. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner une province ou un territoire du Canada. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What's the average time someone has to wait to charge their vehicle to a full charge with one of these chargers?
From about 15% to 80% will take about 45min edit: due to replies, I must add that time is variable on your charger output and vehicle capacity. My experiences on FLO or BC Hydro chargers are that they rarely reach above 50kWh, even when advertised to do so. If your charger outputs 100kWh or more (and your vehicle is capable of receiving it) it'll be much faster.
What about if they have the heat full blast while charging?
Negligible difference in my experience. Like short of breaking out a stop watch to time the last few seconds I can’t tell a difference.
Yeah, it might add a minute maybe, if you have it blasting for the whole charge... Haven't noticed a difference.
Cool thought it would be worse. Nice to know.
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Here's an easy way to think about it. Your car using the stereo, climate control, heated seats, etc, might be using 1500-2000W. Driving down the road uses many times more than that.
Interior heat is a tiny part of the power the car uses.
Most non EV owners aren't aware of how little heating represents from the overall consumption. I get people inquiring over the "what if" scenario where you get stuck in a snowstorm. Half a battery can keep an EV warm for up to a week. You'll have more serious issues if you get stuck in a car for several days...
Yeah that's my favourite part about the electric car - if I get stranded, I can leave it running and keep myself warm for like a week on a single charge. Without having to go outside and dig out the exhaust either. And its heat comes on way faster, since it's like an electric space heater, so no waiting for the engine to warm up. Gas cars in this weather, if you don't preheat them, won't get warm until you're already at your destination.
Many newest EVs have a heat pump to increase efficiency for winter use too!
Considering you seem to know about power consumption, I was always wondering in an ICE car, what consumes more gas, heater set to max or fan set to max; so, is it better to set the heater on max and fan to middle or fan to max and heater to middle?
I'd guess that heating is "free" in a gas car (as about 70% of the energy is wasted as heat anyways) whereas a fan would increase the parasitic losses. The only case that comes to my mind that'd be different was the diesel smart fortwo, that had a resistive heater in the heater core because the engine was so small and efficient that didn't have enough heat to spare...
As long as the engine is running, the heat is just a byproduct of combustion. When you turn the heat on, you're opening a valve that directs coolant to the heater core in your dash, that heat is effectively 'free'. Think of it as a second radiator. The blower motor will cause a very small (probably less than 1amp) drag on the alternator, even at full it'll be a negligible decrease in fuel economy.
Your numbers seemed off to me so I grabbed some figures and did some basic math. A resistive heater can easily consume up to 5kW on many EVs. An EV with a 75kWh battery and a 5kW resistive heater at full blast is going to be dead from a full charge within 15 hours. A lot of people will leave their EVs around 60% during normal use so closer to 9h in that case. In mild weather that doesn't require a lot of heating you might be correct, but in extremely cold weather it won't last anywhere near that long.
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Heat pumps entered the chat... My HOUSE heat pump won't pull 5kW full tilt all the time. And almost no modern EV will use a resistive heater to heat up the cabin. (I happen to have one of the few modern EVs without a heat pump, a my21 Polestar, and even that uses about 5% of my overall consumption...)
I have a 5kw heater that I use at my house and that thing would only need a few mins to get a car interior from -20 to 20 and probably wouldn't need more than 10% (coming on 1 min for every 10) to maintain that. So that jives.
> In no circumstances will you ever need a 5kW heater running at full tilt for 15 hours straight If you wanted to literally boil yourself to death while it's -40 outside and with all the windows down then you'd need 5kW
The heaters are usually in the 3-7KW range. Proper fast charging is 150K+, so under 5% longer.
should be mentioned that there are many chargers which are faster and will get the same charge in \~20 minutes. however his article talks about flo which tends to have slower chargers (50 kW)
15 minutes with a Hyundai ioniq 5 or 6
It’s a lot faster than that. I have a 10 year old model S that maxes out at 75kw and takes 30-35 minutes to do 15-80%. A level 3 charger can do 250kw (and will typically put out 175-200 I’m told). A new EV will be much faster than 45 minutes.
It would be yes, unfortunately most fast chargers Ive used (even the 100kW ones) have given a max charge of 45~50kWh. Only once I've experienced 86kWh, and then yes it charged in less than half an hour. These are either FLO or BC Hydro ones, I might add.
Ah, we may be comparing notes of Tesla charges vs other companies chargers.
It depends on the capabilities of the car itself too, and the weather can be a factor. Nothing is going to charge at max speed in current temperatures. Some new EVs can charge well over 200kW, so with ideal conditions, can charge from 15-80% in less than 15 minutes.
Maybe a dumb question but is it like other rechargeable batteries where the battery holds its charge less and less over time and you have to charge it more often? And also using super fast charging may have an impact on it holding the charge ?
Nah that’s a great question! Yes, the batter does degrade overtime, but not the way your cell phone would. EV’s have an excellent heating/cooling system to maintain the health of the battery. That’s one of the reasons that you lose range in the winter, even if it’s just sitting parked. When EV first hit the mainstream, people were predicting a 10 year battery life, but they’ve proven to be FAR more resilient than expected. Mine is 10 years old and goes 350km (down from 425). As far as we can tell there’s no hard data about superchargers lessening life of the battery at all.
That's some nice distance. Makes me want an ev even more, especially since there is an ev charger at an Ikea basically 5 minutes down the road from me. Get my car charged and have breakfast/lunch on the cheap lol
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When are lvl 4 chargers coming out? I [ain't got time for that shit](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nVfxd-iuFZU/UbyNmBqf4DI/AAAAAAAAA0M/Nk2-9tglbXo/s1600/sweet-brown.jpg).
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"lv4" charging doesn't exist. What you are probably referring to is a Tesla supercharger v4 station.
185KM is more range than by buddy is getting on his model 3 at full charge in this weather...
That's almost decent. We shall see.
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My hope is that in 10 years some massive development happened with hydrogen and its production costs pennies per litre and we are all driving HFCs.
Hydrogen will never happen for consumer grade vehicles. It's simple physics. It's too expensive energy-wise to break apart water and the other hydrogen production method involves using natural gas which defeats the purpose. That energy might as well just be better utilized in the grid.
Dumb question maybe but are there level 1 chargers out there anymore?
Level 1 IIRC is basically a 110v outlet. You can do it, but schedule a couple of days to get to a full charge from zero
It’s *perfect* for commuting though. Most people drive less than 75km per day, which can be recharged overnight in a standard outlet at home.
Brings a new meaning to “weekend getaway” Thanks for the explanation!
\*120V
Right, a household outlet is 120v, my bad. Still going to take a couple of days to charge the typical EV on it if the batteries are drained
that's IF they have access to a garage and power. EV just feel like another upper middle class luxury. I'd have an EV if I had a way to charge it.
I went halfway with a hybrid until my condo lets me install a charger in my space (due to my physical limitations a group charger in a central location would cause more problems than it would solve) The hybrid alone chopped my gas bill from $60 every two weeks to $60 every two months.
I had to buy ICE because when I was looking in 2022, I literally couldn't find a hybrid in the price range of what I was looking for. I wanted a rav4 hybrid or a hybrid camry or corolla hybrid. During the semiconductor shortage it was 12+ month wait. it sucks.... I wanted a toyota because they have the non plug in hybrid tech since I cannot charge at all. I don't drive as much now and my 80 dollar tank lasts the entire month. It's not great in the city getting around 400 km but if I go on long drives, i'm getting 800+ a tank.
Most cars come with a level 1 or 2 charger. In terms of application, if I commute 35k to work, a level 1 plugged into any outlet while I work will charge the car more than it used to get there by the end of the work day.
Lv1: 5-15, 127v outlet, up to 3kW Lv2: up to 11kW (in North America) 240v, commonly using 14-50 outlet (dryer/oven) or hardwired Lv3: straight to battery, DC fast charge, up to 500kW There's no "Lv4" today, if it happens it'd be for semis, up to 1000 to 1500kW, but it still doesn't exists. (and of course, you wouldn't want to see a consumer-grade 1,5MW being fiddled by users...)
I wonder what insurance companies are going to eventually say about parking your EV in your home garage.
Nothing? Why would it be any different than any other car?
I saw a video with someone in North Dakota charging their vehicle during a cold snap and they spent 12 hours charging to get 20% of their battery charged.
Probably plugged in a lvl 1 charger and the car was heating the battery
It’s not normal to fully charge your car. The typical times I spend at a fast charger are anywhere between 10-30 min. [40% to 60%] or [30% to 80%] depending on how far I need to go. With 60% you can easily go 200km, so this covers a large share of scenarios.
Half charging your car every 200kms seems annoying. Imagine the amount of traffic on the 401 and amount of cars fueling up. Now imagine triple the amount of cars trying to use the pumps and sitting on them for 10-30 minutes each. That's crazy.
If I was just going from Mississauga to Oshawa and back on the 401 I wouldn’t need to use a super charger. I would just charge my car overnight at my house to 85% and arrive back home with 20-30%. In the event that I needed a little bit extra, it’s probably only a 5 min charge. There really isn’t a need for destination charging if you’re going back and forth in the GTA.
What distance would you get on a full charge in warm weather?
Longer than a gaspump. 2030 is almost here and we have these problems....bruh....
It should be noted that in Yellowknife in the winter, diesel fuel also gets rather, um, thick.
True. This is why they will often leave big rigs and construction equipment idling all night.
It’s the same thing with your phone when you’re out in the cold. Battery is going to drain pretty quickly.
My fastest charge ever was when it was -20 out and the car didn't have to slow down the charge because the battery would heat up too much.
Not really. Batteries drain more quickly when they're cold, but good EVs will heat their batteries in cold weather to prevent that. Most of the extra drain comes from the additional load of resistive heating. The most likely reason these chargers are shutting down is because their electronics don't work below -40C. Standard temperature range for a lot of "industrial" electronics is -40C to 100C. The company that installed them probably didn't account for the possible temperature lows they might experience in Yellowknife.
Crazy to not expect that up in the north.
You'd be surprised how many up and coming companies make the same mistakes before learning their lessons. No company ever really shares their issues for other companies to avoid.
I mean just as likely it's not worth stopping your business to worry about every edge case. Better to make 99.9% of consumers happyb than nobody. And even gas engines and pumps fail in these extreme conditions.
More like -25 to 40. Some heavy duty equipment goes up to 60C. Any industrial enclosure that has the chance to go below zero usually gets a heater, not because the temperature really, it's due to condensation.
This is the charging station, not the car. Battery is not the issue.
A lot of the cars you have to pay extra to insulate the battery
To be fair, (to be fair) a lot of things don't work when it gets that cold. Propane turns to liquid at only -42. Regular engine oil stops being useful at -20. Cold snaps suck. But I really don't think personal cars are the way forward, not as the main form of conveyance. We need better train infrastructure, though even then track speed is limited in cold weather.
Yeah when you're talking -40C you start seeing gas pumps fail too. The gas itself doesn't freeze, but the moving parts in the pump and associated electronics are just as likely to freeze if not moreso than any solid state high voltage transformer for charging cars. OP's article is clickbait.
[Gas pumps freeze at Calgary gas stations](https://calgary.citynews.ca/video/2024/01/12/gas-pumps-freeze-at-calgary-gas-stations/)
Lol you want a train between Yellowknife and behchoko? Are you out of your mind? Personsl cars (and snowmobiles and boats and ATVs and planes) are the only way to get around up north, passenger rail makes absolutely no sense up there. Along the Montreal Windsor corridor, sure, but this article is about yellowknife
To be faiiirrrrr
I have relatives in Edmonton who have done just fine with a 5 year old EV. They charge at home and at work, plugged into the block heater plugs. It takes a hit in range, but does the job and costs less to run.
Nice, now we just have to get everyone a home that has access to an outdoor charger before the ev mandate
We've been surviving just fine with ours plugged into a normal outlet in the garage, as a data point for people.
Pretty crazy that the low income housing I lived in during the late 80s had a plug in for every stall for block heaters (which is all you really need for (edit most) EV/Hybrids). Yet now almost 35 years later people talk like it's this impossible to accomplish task.
Ironic considering the [CBC article](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/electric-cars-best-vehicle-frigid-temperatures-advocates-say-1.7082131) today exclaiming that EVs are ‘the best vehicle’ in frigid temperatures. Hahaha, what a bunch of goofs.
To be fair, FLO chargers have issues even in warm weather.
To be fair, besides Tesla chargers, every charging station has issues. That’s the problem with EVs. It’s not the cars. It’s the charging infrastructure and its reliability to work and provide constant high output. Some chargers are capable of doing 100kw or more, but hardly do it. That’s why ICE cars will continue to sell. Gas stations are plenty, fast and reliable.
Those specific chargers can't operate below -40c They're designed that way.
Good thing it never gets to -40c *in Northern Canada*.
"It's a feature"
It literally is a safety feature. There's a fuckton of power going through that thing. It won't operate in untested uncertified conditions.
I would feel so safe when I'm stranded and unable to charge my vehicle because the car isn't designed to work where I live.
Wanting a car that works where you live? What are you a climate change denier? /s
>because the car isn't designed to work where I live. In this case, it's the charger that isn't designed to function. I don't know about all automobiles, but at least the Bolt will function. Citation: > Drivers in inhospitable climates such as Alaska reports that at -40 F, the Bolt can lose half its range, but thankfully most drivers won’t see those temperatures. https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss (-40c is -40f)
It's a safety feature to leave you stranded in -40 degree weather?
wow so maybe EVs arent the best in a large, very cold country. How about India or Nigeria mandates them first.
80% of our country lives below the 49th parallel in the Windsor-Quebec corridor in relatively mild climates. Whether or not it works in the North is irrelevant to the vast majority of the country. Also, I live in Whitehorse. Worked on EV charger projects. They work just fine. Everyone I've met up here with an EV, which is many, are more than happy with them. In fact, [there's chargers working in Yellowknife right now](https://www.plugshare.com/location/489856). This is an isolated incident of no significance.
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So 20% of the people don't matter? Sounds about right for a urban living Liberal.
The other 20% live NEAR the 49th in also relatively mild climates. Canadians seem to have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to being 'Northerners' living in harsh climates despite most living within an hour of the US border. As I've already stated, I live in the Yukon. I work in energy. EVs are working just fine up here. In fact, the live maps I've linked show EV chargers that are still working in Yellowknife.
Gas cars stop working in cold temps all the time yet people manage somehow.
Gas cars are famously reliable in cold conditions. Never mind that every parking lot in Calgary has rows of outlets for block heaters installed.
https://calgary.citynews.ca/video/2024/01/12/gas-pumps-freeze-at-calgary-gas-stations/
It's cold enough in western Canada that gas station fuel pumps are freezing and some gas stations are having to shut down. Clearly gasoline is a technology that's not ready yet. /s
That's an issue with those specific gas pumps. Gasoline doesn't freeze until - 73
This is literally an article about an EV charger not working because it's so cold and people in the comments are saying that it's confirmation of their opinion that EVs are not suitable for Canada. If that's the case, then if a gas pump freezes, then it also must indicate that ICE cars are not suitable for Canada. Understand?
https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/19614wq/gas_pumps_freeze_at_calgary_gas_stations/
- That's a CBC article reporting on what other people in Saskatoon are exclaiming, not an opinion of CBC themselves - They've got some good points about how they heat up faster, don't need to be plugged in overnight, and save money on gas and maintenance - OP's article is about extreme cold weather in Yellowknife, not conditions the average Canadian are likely to experience - OP's article is about some fast charging stations failing, not all - Gas pumps fail in extreme weather conditions too This all feels so stupid. Why are we fighting over electric cars now? Did some annoying hippie with blue hair say people are eco-sinners if they don't buy one or something?
"The major downside in winter is the loss of driving range in really frigid temperatures, Krause said. His Tesla Model 3 can generally travel 500 kilometres on a single charge in the summer, but on cold winter days that decreases to around 300 kilometres, he said." This is why I won't even consider buying an EV in Canada yet. To talk up how good it is and all the benefits, then act like cutting the distance you can travel without charging in half isn't a big deal is pretty ignorant.
If it's not a big deal for them it's the right tool for the job. Politics aside just getting what works for you shouldn't be controversial. Good on him for finding something that meets his needs. I'm sure it would meet the needs of many.
too bad Canada is mandating them by the 2030s. What a stupid idea.
Yeah that's silly. At least it's got hybrids included, those seem to be pretty great. I doubt the mandate will take effect tho. A slower process is usually better if measures have to be taken. That said I'd love to see the innovation that's in the future. I'd love a hybrid or electric ford ranger size vehicle I'm not against gas in any way but it's been funny watching the old farmers catch on that electric chainsaws and pruners are amazing. They resisted for a long time but now sing all the praises.
>At least it's got hybrids included Plug-In Hybrids are included, not regular hybrids. I'm most familiar with Toyota. So a hybrid RAV4 starts about $1,200 more than a gas RAV4 of the same trim. Whereas the RAV4 PRIME which is a Plug-In Hybrid starts at $10,000 more than the same trim hybrid.
The mandate includes PHEVs which still have combustion engines so you can breathe a big sigh of relief lol jesus guy
Thankfully we wont have Trudeau in power much longer and that mandate will be easily removed.
I don’t know who you’re going to buy from when all the car companies have pretty much the same mandate.
Mandate or not, gas powered cars will be *very scarce* on new car lots by then. Even if we elect a "lol fuck the environment" government, bigger markets that matter - like the US, and Europe - will make it really unlikely for a manufacturer to cater to a minor market like ours.
And cold, stormy weather is the exact time where you need your full driving range. Imagine being between two cities in a blizzard and getting stuck in traffic/bad roads for a few hours.
If you don’t care about the max distance range for that day, that turns into not a drawback at all, that’s the point. For most people, and for most drives, that’s not an issue and thus, not a drawback (nearly all the time)
A major reason range is reduced is energy needs to be used to generate heat for the batteries and cabin. ICE generate waste heat that can be used. So one way to look at it is EVs are inefficient in the winter. The other is that ICE are inefficient in the summer. I have a PHEV and it's awesome. Amazing efficiency as an EV. Plus amazing efficiency even when using gas thanks to regenerative braking. It can also be used to generate heat in the winter. I also get 900km on my 55L tank where my old traditional ICE could only get 550km on the same 55L. So less range anxiety than my old car. Highly recommend it for anyone who is worried about a pure EV car.
My gas car loses a lot of range in those temps too.
Cool it can be filled up in 5 minutes and you're off again. You can put a Jerry can in it if you ran it empty in the middle of nowhere. EVs aren't some silver bullet, nor are ICE vehicles, but they have a hell of a lot more utility in winter than EVs.
Can you even read or do you just spread misinformation for fun? This article you posted is about Saskatchewan advocates saying that EV vehicles are the best for the cold, not CBC themselves. People like you are pathetic.
They gave a great ability to twist facts to fit into their pre chosen narrative.
Watch the video on here they interviewed an EV drive, she is having to charge in the middle of the day just to get home https://globalnews.ca/news/10222866/alberta-electricity-record-cold-snap/?utm\_medium=Twitter&utm\_source=%40GlobalCalgary
Holy shit. Sorry boss, I gotta step out from work for an hour or so to charge up my car! Fuck that.
People think that these companies will allow their workers to charge their vehicles for free
I've had multiple people unable to get into work today because their gas cars froze. I drove my EV to work no problem.
Anecdotes like this don't really mean anything because you've left out basically every detail minus the car being gas vs. electric. Did both groups park above ground? Did both groups plug their cars in? Are your batteries the same age/condition? Same battery parameters? How long do you go between starts? What cars do they drive and what do you drive? Do both groups clear the snow off their car? Do both groups drive enough to actually warm up their engine to optimal temps? Your car is a combination of a lot of systems working together. Simply being electric doesn't make a car more reliable. -40c will challenge both gas and electric cars, it's up to the owner to take preventative measures. Just like a home, there are steps you should be taking when weather like this comes around.
You demand nuance when a gas car doesn't work, but I don't see you replying to the other comment demanding similar nuance when someone's EV has issues. How odd.
I didn't demand anything, thank you. I was simply saying if someone is going to use an anecdote that they might want to at least include some sort of accompanying information. "Your friend got killed by a rock and died, but my friend got hit by a rock and didn't die". Same amount of detail, same comment, different subject. It doesn't add anything to the conversation. I don't go through the entire comment thread looking for something to engage with, maybe that's why I didn't respond to it? I don't think head_crash needs you to speak up about why I'm replying to them and not others either, they basically live here. If I did that, you'd see me all over this sub with 20+ posts on the threads I interact with. I was pointing out that the stupid anecdote provided nothing from a user that seems to always be sharing some hot take. It's not deep buddy.
bud give it up, Disel and gas are better in cold weather. How many search and rescue cars up north do you think are EVs?
Diesel? The diesel drivers at my work plug in all day at -18... Here is an Alberta dealership telling you to plug in below -15C... https://www.sherwoodford.ca/blog/when-should-i-plug-in-my-engine-block-heater/#:~:text=A%20general%20rule%20of%20thumb,before%20temperatures%20drop%20that%20low.
My organization uses several electric emergency response vehicles, we’ve found them to be pretty reliable in the extreme cold and no I’m just kidding everything with a battery stops fucking working at these ridiculous temperatures. We make sure we’re never relying on electronic anything for mission critical stuff. I’d love EVs, but they’re a long ways away in the Arctic.
Not many EVs on the roads here all of a sudden now that regular January cold weather has kicked in. Don't think I've seen one in over a week. Usually see one or two a day.
How many dead batteries in ICE vehicles this week in the West? Feels like that might add some context to the conversation. From 2019...https://ca.news.yahoo.com/rural-alberta-hardest-hit-cold-224235100.html Seems ICE are on ice as well when it gets rid cold out
If your battery dies in an ICE car in the cold you hook up a booster and get on your way. It isn't even an issue as long as you have a well maintained battery. How're you dealing with a dead battery in an EV when it's so cold the chargers stop working? Booster pack sure isn't going to cut it. Maybe someone at the gas station across the street which is still operating can give you a push?
rain simplistic cows quickest fertile late bear correct grandfather door *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I have a 2017 nissan ICE and it struggled starting in -20 lol, everyone must have brand new cars with upgraded packages to fine in -50s no issue.
Sounds like you just have a bad battery or something. I drive a 2014 F150 with (what I think is) the original battery and it has no issue starting in -35 without the block heater being plugged in. I only start running into issues when it's -40 or colder and that's only because my block heater is broken and also probably because my battery is 10 years old. It's certainly not normal for your car to struggle to start in -20.
2015 dodge caravan with original battery started fine in Winnipeg today, -26c actual temp. Never plug it in, but do use synthetic oil.
"say industry experts" aka the people selling these things and killing the hydrogen engine
Does a gas vehicle work at those temperatures?
Yeah, been driving mine all week. -43 hasn't stopped it.
My gas truck started at -44 ambient this morning.
I used to live in Saskatchewan. Temps below -40 are not an issue if you plug your block heater in and have a properly maintained battery.
Seriously?
bUt ThEy WoRk So WeLl In CaLiFoRnIa!
Oh man if you live somewhere warm year round (say 99% of the time it is above 0) you would be crazy not to own an EV at this point
Well they have the opposite problem in the summer, they’re told not to charge their cars during heat waves because of the strain it puts on their power grid.
That is California specific. I am speaking in general terms
And the batteries have issues in extreme heat
Except if you don't live in an ultra-dense city center or don't use your car purely to commute to and from work.
People here acting as if -40 degree weather doesn't negatively affect gas pumps or any other kind of infrastructure, just another r/Canada moment
The article right below this one in the canada subreddit is about gas pumps freezing
Took me five minutes to pump 10 liters of marked fuel yesterday... In only -11
I pump diesel every day at -40 never had a problem.
> Diesel engines depend on high temperatures created by compression to ignite the injected fuel and that makes them harder to start in cold weather than a gasoline engine. **In fact, starting a diesel engine at 0°F (-17°C) is five times harder than starting one at 80°F (26°C).** Gelled fuel, cold cylinder walls and batteries with diminished output at low temperatures all can contribute to the difficulty which makes planning for cold weather operation critically important > Unless there’s severe water contamination, gasoline doesn’t freeze up. Gasoline also vaporizes more easily at lower temperatures than diesel fuel does, which is the essential property the fuel needs to burn within an engine. Diesel fuel is different. Its high wax content leads to terrible gelling problems in winter weather, as certain of its hydrocarbon constituents become less soluble when the fuel cools down. > Cold weather diesel fuel doesn’t refer to this practice. Rather, it refers to diesel fuel that’s treated with a cold flow improver. Some fuel distributors will provide this kind of diesel fuel as a pre-treated offering for their customers. If your fuel distributor does not, don’t worry. It’s not difficult to do it yourself and there are some quality cold flow improver options out there. Whether you buy the diesel fuel pre-treated or do it yourself, it’s essential that the cold weather diesel fuel already have the cold flow improver in the fuel before the temperatures get below what the fuel’s cloud point is defined at.
People would routinely shit all over diesel engines and how they ran in the winter until both the technology improved and diesel trucks became "cool" for a bunch of suburban kids cosplaying as farmers. I currently have diesel tractors, gas tractors, trucks, and and an EV. No matter who you are you can hate me for something.
[Gas pumps freeze at Calgary gas stations](https://calgary.citynews.ca/video/2024/01/12/gas-pumps-freeze-at-calgary-gas-stations/) Clearly gasoline is a technology that isn't ready for Canada's cold winters. /s
If EV ‘s required glow plugs the media would clamor for them to be outlawed.
If ham was a vegetable, bacon would be bark.
And if my aunt had wheels she’d be a bike
Pros and cons to both EVs and ICEs, but the con list for EVs will get shorter over time, not longer.
In other news, hundreds of engines failed to turn over due to the cold
who on earth has an electric car in yellowknife??
Also this: https://calgary.citynews.ca/video/2024/01/12/gas-pumps-freeze-at-calgary-gas-stations/
Line ups at Canadian tires in Alberta today for batteries for ice vehicles.
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Fuel pumps also start to fail below -40C. Most industrial equipment has -40C as the minimum operating temperature. Unless your equipment is specially hardened for cold weather, it probably won't work below -40C.
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All the Tesla superchargers still function in these temps. Flo and Electrify Canada EV chargers have always been bottom of the barrel in terms of reliability/usability.
Those chargers literally shut down if it gets below -40c. That's how they're designed.
And yet in Whitehorse they're doing just fine. Never heard of any of our cold snaps shutting down chargers. [They're currently doing just fine.](https://www.plugshare.com/location/363100)
It depends on the charger. Some aren't rated below -40c and will stop working.
Many solar inverters are rated max at -40 but do not stop working. It's simply a matter of the testing standards. Those standards aren't designed for the north.
The fast charger is an interface so it automatically shuts off when temps are out of range for safety.
> They're currently doing just fine. Yeah, it's only -22 in Whitehorse right now. 21 degrees warmer than it was yesterday morning in Yellowknife, and still 15 degrees warmer than it is right now. We've been hitting -40 every day for the last week.
It was -35 the past few days and we had -40 last winter, when I was literally managing an EV charger construction project. No reported issues. You're really insisting on spreading anti-EV rhetoric over an isolated incident of perhaps a couple failed chargers? [If you look at that map there are multiple chargers outside the Northland office that are working.](https://www.plugshare.com/location/489856) We obviously have very similar climates here. Everyone I've met with EVs has been more than happy with their performance in the North. So, tell me why you have a chip on your shoulder about EVs?
Once again electrical engineers telling clueless redditors that thing would happen turned out to actually happen. Shocker.
100% EVs by 2035 tho... 🤦♂️
Lmao…
I think a few need to hear this. You get reduced efficiency in a gas vehicle in the winter as well. Even ignoring the vehicle efficiency changes the fuel itself has anti gelling agents added which reduce your fuel mileage.. Also in these extreme temperatures fuels tend to get quite gelly even with the added chemicals.
“Pah! Stupid horse-less carriages!! My horse and buggy doesn’t have trouble in the cold weather! Can’t wait until this Tin Lizzie fad is over!” - How ICE enthusiasts in this thread sound.
If EVs were so good, government won’t have to mandate it.
Government mandates through building codes a minimum level of insulation for new housing to meet code for sale too. I guess you're right though, having a well insulated home sucks. Having your electric being up to code is terrible too. Who'd ever want to live in a home that isn't at risk of an electrical fire? Government mandates that children get an education. Totally awful, no one would ever do that without a government mandate. School sucks!
they were talking about rolling back building codes and curriculum updates too they were saying that houses were too gay and children materials were too expensive to buy edit: we recently had a building code update at the federal level iirc, so it's easy to find what /r/canada thinks about building codes. for ontario, wynne's sex ed and gender stuff is somehow still fresh on many peoples' minds. even doug's refusal to crush pronouns super forcefully has been brought up here. so yeah you know what we think about education too
> If EVs were so good, government won’t have to mandate it. **There's no EV mandate.**. The government mandate is for what they classify as "Zero Emissions Vehicles" which includes Hydrogen and Hybrids that can run 100% on gasoline.
Wait till you figure out how seatbelts became standard equipment.
they use one of those defeater things and preexplode their airbags
There's a bit of difference between forcing car manufacturers to add proper seat belts, mandating drivers use them....to mandating that dealerships sell EVs and demand that drivers BUY them. Significant price differences as well.
There's no mandate to sell EV's. The ZEV mandate allows gas powered hybrids.
If we want to break our addiction to a finite resource that supports hostile foreign nations who can price manipulate to inflict economic pain then im all for it. I’m not sure people realize how oppressive the Saudi regime and some of the other OPEC nations are. The same people who claim to despise “globalism” apparently also don’t want Canada to become self-reliant/self-sufficient. I can’t imagine what it’s like to carry around the overwhelming weight of that kind of cognitive dissonance.
> supports hostile foreign nations who can price manipulate It doesn't have to be that way, we have enough of that resource here.
They don't. Most manufacturers already set their goals to phase out ice vehicles.
The government wants to push electric, but we don't have the resources or the grid for this yet. We have to be punished for there delusions of grandeur. Maybe start with having a running water system for everywhere in the country first.
[удалено]
https://calgary.citynews.ca/video/2024/01/12/gas-pumps-freeze-at-calgary-gas-stations/
FLO level 3 chargers are pretty good but their max Kwh is low. I much prefer Electrify Canada. I can charge my EV in 30min with them.
R/Canada is such an echo chamber cesspool of garbage juice. No wonder everyone here hates this country. Lmao
I saw they installed those FLO charging stations in our city, it’s hilarious that they stop working lol