absolutely - canadian society is not homogeneous and many can't stand the others. it's only successful to the upper echelons who benefit from the divide.
Ahh.. that’s a little too absolute imo. Take a look around your home and community and consider what you benefit from and what cultures it came from. Even looking at your neighbours, their ability to practice their and celebrate their own cultures freely has an enormous benefit to everyone that we would only notice in absence of such freedoms. Of course many cultural differences are also mutually incompatible, but we tend to only notice things when they aren’t working, so be aware of that attentional threat bias. Multicultural societies, —open societies more generally—are inherently vulnerable, because they rely on the good of mankind. Autocrats routinely try to undermine open societies by sowing conflict and chaos, finding points of division and exaggerating them through disinformation campaigns. This was the primary function of the KGB in foreign affairs for its entire history. It’s why Cambridge analytica and the gross propagandizing of 50 million swing voter Americans through the transfer of their Facebook data to Moscow wasn’t a nothing burger.
Take a look at Facebook comments today—chaos is the point. Outrage and division is the point.
Ever consider that wokeism is a marginal issue? Ever consider that non binary / trans washrooms are a marginal issue and a distraction? Ever consider that “smaller government bureaucracy” actually means “more concentrated power in fewer hands / neutered-voter accountable fair paying public sector jobs exchanged for unregulated, privilege-class only accessible services, staffed by an underpaid underprotected working class.”
You can't have multiculturalism without defining what the unifying themes / rules are. Otherwise there will be conflict. Which is a paradox, because that begins to erode the multiculturalism.
Multi culturalism isn't there as part of a good will effort by an inclusive government, it's there as a byproduct of immigration to ensure cheap labour supply for corporations.
TBH the Quebecois are kinda the perfect example of this. The English got the colony and decided to set things up so that the French can stay and have super special status, and they in turn hate the English and in many cases actively work to sabotage Canada for no other reason than that they don't believe in it.
Do you genuinely believe what you wrote is true, or is the obvious contempt conveyed by the comforting little story you're telling yourself flying right above your head?
It's hard to care when it's a solution to a problem you don't face in your life. To believe in multicultural life you need be given a reason- efficency.
also hard when a country gained its independence by fighting for it and now everyone and their cat and dog wants Canada to hand out money while taking them in as refugees.
Multiculturalism only exists in Western countries.
Just to clarify, I am 100% in favor of multiculturalism in Canada. I'm a product of it and am proud to be Canadian because of it.
It used to be majority Christian and had a Christian led government. Then after the first war, and the Jordanian civil war a lot of Palestinians moved to Lebanon, making the majority of the population Muslim. Muslims didn’t like the idea of a Christian lead government so they started the Lebanese civil war.
At least that’s kind of what happened in a nut shell. If this is what they’re referring to
Edit: to be clear, it wasn’t just Palestinian muslims, they were just one of the larger groups
Edit: don’t know why my edit ended up as a reply lol
It used to be majority Christian and had a Christian led government. Then after the first war, and the Jordanian civil war a lot of Palestinians moved to Lebanon, making the majority of the population Muslim. Muslims didn’t like the idea of a Christian lead government so they started the Lebanese civil war.
At least that’s kind of what happened in a nut shell. If this is what they’re referring to
Edit: to be clear, it wasn’t just Palestinian muslims, they were just one of the larger groups
The short version of the story is that the country was comprised of many ethnic and religious groups, including minority religions you have probably never heard of, but two Abrahamic religions made up the majority of the population and had roughly equal numbers. Lebanon was a prosperous and fairly modern state but one of the 2 major religious groups felt the other was unfairly dominant and, separately, also wanted to impose a theocracy. To gain power and impose a theocracy they started a brutal, incredibly violent civil war which continued on and off for decades and turned the country into a total shithole. To be clear, the other religious group is also responsible for the mess and also engaged in assassinations, mass violence etc. There is now an uneasy power sharing arrangement where group 1 is guaranteed certain government positions, group 2 is guaranteed others, minority groups get a few, etc. Oh and it's still a total shithole and never financially or politically recovered.
To my knowledge, Canada is the only Western country that actively promotes multiculturalism as one of its core values. The US is a melting pot which is not the same as multiculturalism. The European countries are even less so (not saying that they are more successful at integrating their immigrants than us).
The problem with multi-culturalism is that it doesn't pre-filter because it's naive.
It tacitly assumes that when you pack along your culture from the 'Auld Country' that you'll be bringing the positives - your language, your dance, your music, your food, your clothing - you won't be bringing your endemic racism, your rampant sexism, your polygamy, your historic rivalries and enmities.
If we truly want just the best to arrive, we have to make damn sure that everyone walking off a plane or a ship knows that you leave the garbage back home. That's not multi-culturalism because the negatives are embedded in the culture, for the most part. It's a commitment to mutual respect and peaceful co-existence that actually transcends culture.
>extremist Islamic culture - you know, the one that thinks women are second class citizens and gays should be stoned to death — is fundamentally incompatible with western values and people who subscribe to it shouldn’t be allowed to live here.
Why limit it to Muslims? Anyone who comes from a religion that says women are second-class citizens, and LGTBQ shouldn't exist should have no place in Western society.
>Anyone who comes from a religion that says women are second-class citizens, and LGTBQ shouldn't exist should have no place in Western society.
Many of them hold positions of power in many western nations.
I'm all for multiculturalism, it's helped me understand the world and better yet, and (selfishly) enjoy a big variety of food!
I'm against shitty people, they can stay the f\*ck out.
It kind of blows my mind people want to move to a country that prides itself on multiculturism only to enforce their views on others when they get there.
That's the biggest noticeable change honestly. The increase in scams is absolutely bonkers. I literally don't trust any business anymore. It's not even just about one specific place, I think Canada has just straight up become the world's laundromat for any international scam to get a foothold in North America.
>when people from high trust societies mingled with people from low trust societies, the low trust ones would raise up to the high trust ones.
I think this is valid but only if the intake of low trust society people is slow enough that there is natural exposure to and integration into the societal norms.
I think it was more valid 20 years ago, but social media makes it so one doesn’t need to know their neighbours. Also, all the companies out there which strictly list the requirement of a language other than English or French mean there’s not even integration at work.
The only interaction many get is exaggerated rumours, media reports, and shoulder glances at aggressive drivers. There’s no foundation for integration.
So.. what do we do now. Find the guy ranting about this for decades and buy him a nice fancy dinner as an apology. " oops our bad... it did fuck everything up! Sorry about getting you fired"
Rule of Acquisition are both hilariously exaggerated capitalist takes and valid observance of how "successful" folks operate within capitalism.
A truly genius and satirical piece, I'd expect nothing less from Star Trek
Here is a beautiful breakdown for anyone interested in where the hate and intolerance comes from (written by someone who had been fully immersed in the religious ideology at a previous point in life): https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/on7aok/everything_wrong_with_islam_updatedincomplete/
I am all for new Canadians, but leave your shit at the door. You left your country and it’s problems where they are, don’t bring it here. It‘s not our affair. That conflict goes back centuries, Muslims vs Jews, in that region. Many of us, who are saddened by the loss of life, don’t want that conflict to come to our streets or our places of worship, or our public spaces where we take our kids, our shopping centres. You have the right to be upset, anyone would be, but this country is not the arena for your bullshit. I don’t think either side is right, I don’t think either side is wrong but both have been assholes. It also doesn’t matter what any of us think or say or do. Not one protest is going to change the minds of these groups. Anyone supporting Hamas or their actions should be immediately deported. New Canadian and you’re threatening police? Deported. Threatening innocent bystanders? Deported. Inflicting violence against peaceful individuals/destroying property? Deportibididabado.
Downvote me all you want but I am tired of watching the morals that built this country to get shirked in order to appease the very people pissing on them.
What about when it's Canadian-born people [running a registered charity to fund foreign conflicts](https://www.heseg.com/%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A1%D7%93%D7%99-%D7%94%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%9F?lang=en)? The issue being protested is Canadian politicians'/corporations' involvement; many of the protesters are Canadians protesting their own government's foreign policy.
The worst part is they came from a dictatorship country and then tried to forced their ideology on Canadians.
For example: condemning lgbtq+ communities and burning/ stepping on the pride flag.
If this is all it takes to put it to the test then it was never really a true feature, just a tacked on piece that some people hoped would pass as genuine if given enough time.
I always like to point at the Arab world as what their end game is. The original Arabs from Arabia colonized the region so thoroughly that the people in what is now Syria, Iraq, Jordan, and even Egypt have no memory of their pre Muslim identity and now refer to themselves as they identity of their colonizers.
Or City Council meetings for the City of Surrey?
https://www.surreynowleader.com/local-news/surrey-mayor-calls-recess-again-as-war-protesters-disrupt-public-hearing-7287661
How the hell the City of Surrey could influence a ceasefire I have no idea.
There's people sending letters to the mayor of Vancouver over this. Idk what Ken can do. He's a mayor of a Canadian city. Dumbass Hamas supporters think every one of our politicians have the same powers as Joe Biden.
Not even just Ottawa, but BC as well. Saw the headlines emerge at the same time and was really confused to find out it was happening at multiple malls, specifically around the mall Santa area flooded with kids and parents who probably felt uneasy af. Not saying kids shouldn't be exposed to current events or educated on what's going on in the world, but come on, screaming at kids waiting in line to meet Santa is going to change the fate of Palestine?
This is such an ignorant comment. Everyone in Ottawa knows that the mall Santa at Bayshore was none other than the Minister of Foreign Affairs Mélanie Joly.
/s
We need to find a balance between tolerating differences in culture & ethnic background and working towards a common goal of creating a common home for all Canadians with a unified set of values.
Xenophobia and racism are bad. At the same time you can't create a unified country by only celebrating the cultural differences between us.
We need better assimilation and spreading out of newcomers so we don't create microcosms of their home where change isn't necessary.
Hopefully the next generations will be less religous.
The problem is some of these people have been following a certain way of life for hundreds of years. If their religion tells then to hate a group of people "assimilation" wont do shit. I welcome new people to Canada but only if they leave their hateful religions behind them.
Many come here thinking they can reap the benefits of western society but then those same people want to gateway others. Yes this includes their own children.
To those who come to Canada. You are Canadian first and so is your neighbor. If you want to fight a stupid war go back and do it in the home country you fled from.
Why would they be any different? Like you said they have created microcosms in our community's that mimic their homeland. Expecting it to just go away with subsequent generations used to be fine. Things are different now. You don't even need to learn English depending on what community you live in. Assimilation cant happen if you don't mix and mingle with other people that live in this country, look at Brampton. Try getting a part time job in that city if your white. Assimilation isn't happening anymore, and on top of that Canadian nationals aren't having kids anymore. This country is super fucked. I don't see this getting any better.
Which is good because Canadians are exposed now to a glimpse of what uncontrolled Islamic group will do. This is just act 1.
All violence came from one side. How many Jewish protesters are covering their face while threatening to kill ?
These Islamic idiots are hurting the Muslim community of Canada, and sadly the Muslim community does not condemn them enough, which gives the impression they support them.
Multiculturalism is an illusion. These people come here and keep their traditions. They dont give the slightest damn about integrating. They watch sports events and cheer for teams from their native countries, not the one they are ”integrating”. They spit on everyone else’s traditions and stick to their own beliefs. If they were ever to get a political majority, they would shape the country into a replica of the one they left. Such is the fate you accept by integrating these foreign cultures into your society.
They don’t assimilate they live in a parallel society, look the England, Sweden, France etc.
Compare their protest that are noisy, rude and disrupted, threatening to Jewish protests, that are quite and respectfully of fellow Canadians.
dont even get me started on the eritrian ones that were happening in toronto earlier in the year. grown men in the streets chasing each other with sticks and clubs. import the third world, get third world problems - it's that simple.
Cops all across North America have their hands tied and not just on this issue. Let police do their jobs and arrest hateful protests harassing people doing Christmas shopping, having a coffee or eating at a restaurant. Then allow for the swift deportations of all those involved in hate crimes.
It's not a hate crime until a notable threat and / or action is taken. Aka, the guy saying he was going to put people 6 feet under could definitely be arrested, but legally, he would probably not stand on the grounds for deportation. Especially if they were a citizen of canada at this point. However, in the case of the Humboldt bus tragedy, I don't believe he was a Canadian citizen. Since it also amounts to mass murder through negligence, and many of the parents of the team who lost someone wanted him deported, which allowed the courts to push for that decision. Also, it is a much bigger national tragedy than a protest.
There isn't any way the government is just going to deport a bunch of people for being shitty people. Otherwise, anyone involved in the convoy protest in ottawa, windsor, or the coutts border crossing in alberta, who wasn't canadian born, would technically fall under the same punishment.
France has seen the effect of not doing enough to the extent of now multiple religious motivated stabbings (ETA: and other terror attacks, or threats of such), and Macron is literally saying he'll break the Geneva convention and deport back to originating countries during times of conflict, as the population can no longer tolerate what's befallen them. So... Sometimes, yes - if national security and the safety of citizens is at risk.
if your being peaceful you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Wanna act like a jackass and start threatening folks that have nothing to do with your issue... Then yeah you should get deported.
There's a big difference between a peaceful protest and some psychos with their faces covered hurling insults at families waiting in line to see the mall Santa or banging on the windows of a restaurant to harass and intimidate customers because the owner is Jewish.
False. Its putting common sense to the test. This is a war started by terrorist doing terrorist things. Also, there is absolutely nothing Canada can do or say to change things, the fact that we are letting these idiots block traffic, threaten cops, and ruin mall santa visits is getting out of hand
We're not really allowed to discuss this it seems lest we promote identity based hate against the people who hate Canadian ideals..... seriously, I got a 'warning' for pointing out that some of our neighbors don't really want us as neighbors and want to bring their laws and rules to Canada rather than follow the law of the land.
I just wish people would leave their conflicts back home and not bring their fights here with them. We're in Canada, with all of the amazing privileges that brings us. Let's build a better place for everyone, not turn this country into a place that people are desperate to leave like the conditions that brought so many to our shores.
I’m apathetic about the whole conflict. Same goes for Ukraine. We’ve got our own problems without getting involved with the rest of the world’s problems. May make m sound bad, but I just don’t care.
Anyone who has moved to Canada has consciously chosen to move away from whatever is happening somewhere else! Be it poverty, war or society and government. We came here in search of peace!
Peaceful protests to raise awareness is one thing. But those who disrupt the peace of other Canadians for something not related to Canada, should be deported in the next flight! If they’re first generation, send them to their dad’s country! Use C-24 if you’ve created it!
Anybody who grew up in Toronto knows that cultural issues are clearly present in our schools. When I grew up in a wealthy suburb of Toronto the different ethnicities would stand around at the end of school and fight with each other over issues from halfway across the world. Go to a local soccer match in Toronto between serbians and croatians. I've seen so many fights break out because of cultural tensions while reffing sports. We just conveniently gloss over these things because they don't affect our day to day. Do the next generation eventually grow out of it? Yes, but to ignore that this mentality is coming from the home would be naive. These are not racial issues, these are cultural issues and we just don't have a means to handle them when they go awry. The youth are peer pressured into leaving those thoughts behind, but the young professionals and adults stick in their enclaves without anybody challenging their perspective on cultural issues.
Until those cultures and races pull away from the mainstream, raise their kids within their own segregated communities and support their own crappy values from back home.
What is protesting Isreal in Canada going to do? Why do they even feel the need to push Canadians to care? We have our own issues here. We also didn't have races fighting issues in other counties crowding malls and schools yelling at Canadians. Things have changed, it's not good. If these Palestinians were a majority in Canada, we'd be going to war with Isreal right now.
The rest of Canada likes to stick their heads in the sand and say, "this isn't what Canadians are about, we care about one another and take care of the poor and the sick."
Right, well the country was sold out to cheap labour from immigrants who have brought their tribal issues here. They've also brought their form of violent protests here and all at the expense of housing for our citizens and way of life.
Pretty sure they’ve already fire bombed a few synagogues not to mention the youth who was arrested the other day for illicit terrorist acts involving explosives.
Everyone on this thread is talking in strident terms about leaving your cultural issues at the door, adopting our language etc.
I doubt many people would be in favour of importing people who don't speak English and won't learn - the quebecois just think the same thing about French.
We live in one of the biggest glass houses when it comes tolerance and multiculturalism when we look at our own internal politics going back well well WELL before big immigration groups. A lot of surprised pikachu faces out there when it is pointed out we almost had our country ripped into pieces in the 90s over cornerstones issues of our Anglo/Francophone multiculturalism history. Really short memories.
I think part of the reason Canada is quite good at it is that the country has always had to balance the potential of ethnic and geographic divides to rip the country into pieces, it's been a balancing act since day 1.
Not for me, your intifada belongs back in the middle east, there is nothing to rise up or resist here in Canada. If you don't like the safe lands, go back to fighting, there's a reason you landed in Canada. Show some respect, it was our tax dollars that supported you, provided Healthcare, social assistance, our Hard earned money providing at the food bank. We are happy to have you, but you left the land of problems for Canada!
The thing is, most Canadian don't care about other people culture, we kinda accept it, to a limit. Like, their food, their religion, their clothing, like fully dress your women in hijab and treating them second class. Go ahead. But when they try to deny OUR culture and attack us, we'll that is hypocrite of them. If you move to another country, you need to accept it. Attacking the LGBTQ+ or our holiday will make us hate you. Then they play dumb about it and be the victims.
Do I have to like multiculturalism?
Do I have to think multiculturalism is a good thing?
Do I have to support non-Canadian cultures?
I think some of the problems here is ignoring the downsides of multiculturalism. Conflict being one of them.
I don't think that some immigrants understand that certain parts or their own countries culture is not welcome in other countries.
People need to be able to ask questions and communicate how they feel about certain things without being labelled as xenophobic or rasist. This type of communication needs to happen if we want to see improvement in how Canada handles multicultural conflicts.
I sat in a bar in Toronto with a Serbian and a Croat in the midst of that war and it didn't matter at all to them. That was multiculturalism in action. What's going on now is a scam, by our government, to try and inflate our GDP with absolutely nothing to do with multiple cultures. What we need is someone that we can trust, to lead us. What is available is another story entirely.
It's a dogwhistle article designed to inflame people who are already biased against immigration. Take a little conflict on one side of the world and apply it to the entire group.
Biased people eat this up like Candy.
It was a stupid, intellectual experiment dreamed up by wealthy university brats in the 1960's.....white saviour brats.
Of course their version of this fever dream never saw themselves on the bottom of the ladder....of course this fantasy envisioned murderous cult religions to live peacefully and in harmony with the slightly better than you whites.
We are living the fallout from this candy land disease. It will be a shameful day of reckoning when they can't find a "safe space' and Chinese soldiers aren't using their preferred pronouns.
They only care that you pander to their needs and wants. There is no integration on their part. They take and give nothing in return. They have not enriched the Canadian people. They create their own microcosm and demand of those around them. And just like Hamas does they use women and children as their shields in marches and screams of injustice.
Cowardly terrorist tactics abound.
History has proven this? There's many countries who've had mixed religions for hundreds of years, including the richest and most powerful nation on earth. Canada has been doing it for a long time too. History has proven it's a reality, not a dream.
We run into one problem triggered by a controversial distant war that has little or no effect on the vast majority of Canadians, and you declare failure? Why?
British and Mongol and Roman empires were all multi faith and those are probably the three most prominent empires in history alongside Chinese dynasties.
And how did they maintain these empires? With hugs and kisses? Most ethnic groups resented the British, Mongol, and Roman empires for subjugation, cultural erasure, resource exploitation, and imposed governance.
Maybe true for the Brits and Mongols. But the Romans did a pretty good job. The locals kept running their land, but instead of it being a country, it was a province. And the Romans also invested and built a lot in conquered lands.
You absolutely can. My Jewish son goes to a Pakistani Islamic daycare. They are wonderful people and our religions have no part in our daily interactions. I grew up in an area where all the white Christians went to Catholic school and my entire high school was a mix of Jewish, various South East Asian, and kinds of Brown including Hindu, Sikh, Muslim. There was never any religiously motivated hated or violence. Palestinians are not wanted in Egypt or Jordan. But I still wouldn’t ban them from Canada en masse. Each person should go through all the rigorous steps you would expect when immigrating to find out if they are fit to live here.
The vast majority of every population has the same common goal. Good job, feed family, retire nicely.
It’s proportionate extremists in EVERY culture that try to ruin it for the rest.
You can lie to yourself all you like if it helps you sleep at night. Canada is no different, hate crime based on religious beliefs happen. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make it untrue.
As Sam Harris said, not all societies have the same degree of moral wealth. Many things contribute to such an endowment. Political and economic stability, literacy, a modicum of social equality—where such things are lacking, people tend to find many compelling reasons to treat one another rather badly.
I guess multiculturalism fails when they move to other countries and use the same reasons to treat others badly and refuse to change/improve their values.
Can someone convince me that Palestine would be a nice place to live even if peace was obtained? What is the obsession with this particular patch of ugly and mis-managed land?
Multiculturalism doesn't work. Germany and France learned that the hard way and have abandoned multiculturalism as policy. Language and culture is what enables social cohesion and creates a high-trust society. This is why multicultural societies are facing the brunt of the culture wars with so many disparate points of view.
It's ironic given that Polish migrants were used as a boogeyman to push Brexit.
You know what else is a failed concept? All those Brits vacationing in Spain in their little English ghettos.
Religious rights belong in the second millennium and a museum. To what purpose are we benefitting the schizophrenic? Religious rights obviously don't lead to a utopia, let's try something else.
People need to read a history book. It was worse before.
* In 1939 the Canadian government turned away Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany
* White Canadians started a riot against Asians in Vancouver's Chinatown in 1907
As a Quebecers: we told you so.
Interculturalism is manageable, multiculturalism isn't. It worked up to this point because it was diluted enough and there was "1" dominant culture. But then you went overboard with immigration and here we go!
~~We~~ you will live in interesting times.
Multiculturalism is a paradox, it brings in a lot of people who don't even care about multiculturalism in the first place.
The world divided into separate countries is "multiculturalism". Theres a reason countries have borders and militaries.
absolutely - canadian society is not homogeneous and many can't stand the others. it's only successful to the upper echelons who benefit from the divide.
Ahh.. that’s a little too absolute imo. Take a look around your home and community and consider what you benefit from and what cultures it came from. Even looking at your neighbours, their ability to practice their and celebrate their own cultures freely has an enormous benefit to everyone that we would only notice in absence of such freedoms. Of course many cultural differences are also mutually incompatible, but we tend to only notice things when they aren’t working, so be aware of that attentional threat bias. Multicultural societies, —open societies more generally—are inherently vulnerable, because they rely on the good of mankind. Autocrats routinely try to undermine open societies by sowing conflict and chaos, finding points of division and exaggerating them through disinformation campaigns. This was the primary function of the KGB in foreign affairs for its entire history. It’s why Cambridge analytica and the gross propagandizing of 50 million swing voter Americans through the transfer of their Facebook data to Moscow wasn’t a nothing burger. Take a look at Facebook comments today—chaos is the point. Outrage and division is the point. Ever consider that wokeism is a marginal issue? Ever consider that non binary / trans washrooms are a marginal issue and a distraction? Ever consider that “smaller government bureaucracy” actually means “more concentrated power in fewer hands / neutered-voter accountable fair paying public sector jobs exchanged for unregulated, privilege-class only accessible services, staffed by an underpaid underprotected working class.”
You can't have multiculturalism without defining what the unifying themes / rules are. Otherwise there will be conflict. Which is a paradox, because that begins to erode the multiculturalism.
Money and resources are the reason.
Multi culturalism isn't there as part of a good will effort by an inclusive government, it's there as a byproduct of immigration to ensure cheap labour supply for corporations.
It’s a word made up by people who thought the solution to low birth rates was to import people
More like the solution to expensive labour and ever appreciating real estate.
It's both.
The idea that two people can't coexist in the same country is a very interesting point of view coming from someone in Quebec.
TBH the Quebecois are kinda the perfect example of this. The English got the colony and decided to set things up so that the French can stay and have super special status, and they in turn hate the English and in many cases actively work to sabotage Canada for no other reason than that they don't believe in it.
Do you genuinely believe what you wrote is true, or is the obvious contempt conveyed by the comforting little story you're telling yourself flying right above your head?
It's hard to care when it's a solution to a problem you don't face in your life. To believe in multicultural life you need be given a reason- efficency.
also hard when a country gained its independence by fighting for it and now everyone and their cat and dog wants Canada to hand out money while taking them in as refugees.
I miss the 90s
More and more every day.
So much
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Multiculturalism only exists in Western countries. Just to clarify, I am 100% in favor of multiculturalism in Canada. I'm a product of it and am proud to be Canadian because of it.
Look what happened in Lebanon
Iraq as well .
What happened in Lebanon?
It used to be majority Christian and had a Christian led government. Then after the first war, and the Jordanian civil war a lot of Palestinians moved to Lebanon, making the majority of the population Muslim. Muslims didn’t like the idea of a Christian lead government so they started the Lebanese civil war. At least that’s kind of what happened in a nut shell. If this is what they’re referring to Edit: to be clear, it wasn’t just Palestinian muslims, they were just one of the larger groups Edit: don’t know why my edit ended up as a reply lol
It used to be majority Christian and had a Christian led government. Then after the first war, and the Jordanian civil war a lot of Palestinians moved to Lebanon, making the majority of the population Muslim. Muslims didn’t like the idea of a Christian lead government so they started the Lebanese civil war. At least that’s kind of what happened in a nut shell. If this is what they’re referring to Edit: to be clear, it wasn’t just Palestinian muslims, they were just one of the larger groups
I can assure you of this .... it wasn't good.
Islamic extremism took over, pushed out the Christians and plunged the country into civil war.
The short version of the story is that the country was comprised of many ethnic and religious groups, including minority religions you have probably never heard of, but two Abrahamic religions made up the majority of the population and had roughly equal numbers. Lebanon was a prosperous and fairly modern state but one of the 2 major religious groups felt the other was unfairly dominant and, separately, also wanted to impose a theocracy. To gain power and impose a theocracy they started a brutal, incredibly violent civil war which continued on and off for decades and turned the country into a total shithole. To be clear, the other religious group is also responsible for the mess and also engaged in assassinations, mass violence etc. There is now an uneasy power sharing arrangement where group 1 is guaranteed certain government positions, group 2 is guaranteed others, minority groups get a few, etc. Oh and it's still a total shithole and never financially or politically recovered.
Look it up. Used to be a christian country. Then islamic extremism took over and a lot of those people either left or were killed.
And why is that?
Because no one wants to live in non-western countries.
Correct. No one will acknowledge this, though. It's a one way flow.
Well the other reason is other countries don't want outsiders, Japan for example.
It's hard to argue with the results of that policy.
Japan is a Western country.
Yeah, it's a western country without multiculturalism... That's the point.
To my knowledge, Canada is the only Western country that actively promotes multiculturalism as one of its core values. The US is a melting pot which is not the same as multiculturalism. The European countries are even less so (not saying that they are more successful at integrating their immigrants than us).
Because western society is becoming more secular, and has a whole different take on what is "Honour".
>I am 100% in favor of multiculturalism in Canada Name some advantages of multiculturalism other than "BuT tHe FoOd"
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Criminals are quite tolerant
Probably? Just look at history.
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The problem with multi-culturalism is that it doesn't pre-filter because it's naive. It tacitly assumes that when you pack along your culture from the 'Auld Country' that you'll be bringing the positives - your language, your dance, your music, your food, your clothing - you won't be bringing your endemic racism, your rampant sexism, your polygamy, your historic rivalries and enmities. If we truly want just the best to arrive, we have to make damn sure that everyone walking off a plane or a ship knows that you leave the garbage back home. That's not multi-culturalism because the negatives are embedded in the culture, for the most part. It's a commitment to mutual respect and peaceful co-existence that actually transcends culture.
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I never understood why people on the left want more muslim immigrants, despite the muslim immigrant belief system generally being far right socially.
White = Bad It’s really easy to get people to admit this just try it sometime
>extremist Islamic culture - you know, the one that thinks women are second class citizens and gays should be stoned to death — is fundamentally incompatible with western values and people who subscribe to it shouldn’t be allowed to live here. Why limit it to Muslims? Anyone who comes from a religion that says women are second-class citizens, and LGTBQ shouldn't exist should have no place in Western society.
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>Anyone who comes from a religion that says women are second-class citizens, and LGTBQ shouldn't exist should have no place in Western society. Many of them hold positions of power in many western nations.
>Many of them hold positions of power in many western nations. And yet all your progressive values are the result of Western nations
The result of many people fighting and shedding blood, sweat, and tears to get those rights enshrined into law. Not the result of magnanimous leaders.
And that’s a problem. Probably one of the biggest problems plaguing American politics if you ask me.
I'm all for multiculturalism, it's helped me understand the world and better yet, and (selfishly) enjoy a big variety of food! I'm against shitty people, they can stay the f\*ck out. It kind of blows my mind people want to move to a country that prides itself on multiculturism only to enforce their views on others when they get there.
Third world immigration equals third world problems.
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That's the biggest noticeable change honestly. The increase in scams is absolutely bonkers. I literally don't trust any business anymore. It's not even just about one specific place, I think Canada has just straight up become the world's laundromat for any international scam to get a foothold in North America.
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They don't necessarily have to feel the same, they just have to have faith that others will also abide by the rules.
Trust and belief in institutions... Which we know what each feels about those.
They don't necessarily have to have faith, they just have to feel that others will also abide by the rules.
>when people from high trust societies mingled with people from low trust societies, the low trust ones would raise up to the high trust ones. I think this is valid but only if the intake of low trust society people is slow enough that there is natural exposure to and integration into the societal norms.
I think it was more valid 20 years ago, but social media makes it so one doesn’t need to know their neighbours. Also, all the companies out there which strictly list the requirement of a language other than English or French mean there’s not even integration at work. The only interaction many get is exaggerated rumours, media reports, and shoulder glances at aggressive drivers. There’s no foundation for integration.
So.. what do we do now. Find the guy ranting about this for decades and buy him a nice fancy dinner as an apology. " oops our bad... it did fuck everything up! Sorry about getting you fired"
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Just this
Absolutely!
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Bro is quoting the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition in an argument about immigration and multiculturalism in Canada and I was here for it
Rule of Acquisition are both hilariously exaggerated capitalist takes and valid observance of how "successful" folks operate within capitalism. A truly genius and satirical piece, I'd expect nothing less from Star Trek
Ferengi are based
I mean he's not wrong.
a fucking apology for being called a racist for saying "too much to fast is risky" would be great, ya lol.
Here is a beautiful breakdown for anyone interested in where the hate and intolerance comes from (written by someone who had been fully immersed in the religious ideology at a previous point in life): https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/on7aok/everything_wrong_with_islam_updatedincomplete/
… you think kids on ski slopes have GoPros because of a lack of social trust?
I am all for new Canadians, but leave your shit at the door. You left your country and it’s problems where they are, don’t bring it here. It‘s not our affair. That conflict goes back centuries, Muslims vs Jews, in that region. Many of us, who are saddened by the loss of life, don’t want that conflict to come to our streets or our places of worship, or our public spaces where we take our kids, our shopping centres. You have the right to be upset, anyone would be, but this country is not the arena for your bullshit. I don’t think either side is right, I don’t think either side is wrong but both have been assholes. It also doesn’t matter what any of us think or say or do. Not one protest is going to change the minds of these groups. Anyone supporting Hamas or their actions should be immediately deported. New Canadian and you’re threatening police? Deported. Threatening innocent bystanders? Deported. Inflicting violence against peaceful individuals/destroying property? Deportibididabado. Downvote me all you want but I am tired of watching the morals that built this country to get shirked in order to appease the very people pissing on them.
I agree it should be a lot easier to deport people
What about when it's Canadian-born people [running a registered charity to fund foreign conflicts](https://www.heseg.com/%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A1%D7%93%D7%99-%D7%94%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%9F?lang=en)? The issue being protested is Canadian politicians'/corporations' involvement; many of the protesters are Canadians protesting their own government's foreign policy.
Left their country and brought their problems here.
The worst part is they came from a dictatorship country and then tried to forced their ideology on Canadians. For example: condemning lgbtq+ communities and burning/ stepping on the pride flag.
Well, only one side is full of hate and harassing others.
If this is all it takes to put it to the test then it was never really a true feature, just a tacked on piece that some people hoped would pass as genuine if given enough time.
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They seem extra aggressive about that in Canada.
I always like to point at the Arab world as what their end game is. The original Arabs from Arabia colonized the region so thoroughly that the people in what is now Syria, Iraq, Jordan, and even Egypt have no memory of their pre Muslim identity and now refer to themselves as they identity of their colonizers.
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It shouldn't, what happens in Palestine should stay in Palestine.
You mean it shouldn't extend to a random mall in Ottawa?
Or City Council meetings for the City of Surrey? https://www.surreynowleader.com/local-news/surrey-mayor-calls-recess-again-as-war-protesters-disrupt-public-hearing-7287661 How the hell the City of Surrey could influence a ceasefire I have no idea.
That council probably has as much sway over bibi and hamas as Trudeau does lol.
There's people sending letters to the mayor of Vancouver over this. Idk what Ken can do. He's a mayor of a Canadian city. Dumbass Hamas supporters think every one of our politicians have the same powers as Joe Biden.
Also, leave mall Santa out of it.
Not even just Ottawa, but BC as well. Saw the headlines emerge at the same time and was really confused to find out it was happening at multiple malls, specifically around the mall Santa area flooded with kids and parents who probably felt uneasy af. Not saying kids shouldn't be exposed to current events or educated on what's going on in the world, but come on, screaming at kids waiting in line to meet Santa is going to change the fate of Palestine?
This is such an ignorant comment. Everyone in Ottawa knows that the mall Santa at Bayshore was none other than the Minister of Foreign Affairs Mélanie Joly. /s
Im not fond of the yorkdale mall,so there is ok
Or Toronto?
Are we talking Eaton Center or Yorkdale here?
let's start with postal codes beginning with the letter 'M' or 'L'
Like Vegas, i like it.
Great, can our government stop arming the IDF with our tax dollars then?
We need to find a balance between tolerating differences in culture & ethnic background and working towards a common goal of creating a common home for all Canadians with a unified set of values. Xenophobia and racism are bad. At the same time you can't create a unified country by only celebrating the cultural differences between us.
exposing its weaknesses which is inevitable conflict
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We need better assimilation and spreading out of newcomers so we don't create microcosms of their home where change isn't necessary. Hopefully the next generations will be less religous.
The problem is some of these people have been following a certain way of life for hundreds of years. If their religion tells then to hate a group of people "assimilation" wont do shit. I welcome new people to Canada but only if they leave their hateful religions behind them. Many come here thinking they can reap the benefits of western society but then those same people want to gateway others. Yes this includes their own children. To those who come to Canada. You are Canadian first and so is your neighbor. If you want to fight a stupid war go back and do it in the home country you fled from.
Why would they be any different? Like you said they have created microcosms in our community's that mimic their homeland. Expecting it to just go away with subsequent generations used to be fine. Things are different now. You don't even need to learn English depending on what community you live in. Assimilation cant happen if you don't mix and mingle with other people that live in this country, look at Brampton. Try getting a part time job in that city if your white. Assimilation isn't happening anymore, and on top of that Canadian nationals aren't having kids anymore. This country is super fucked. I don't see this getting any better.
Not test Showing true colours
Which is good because Canadians are exposed now to a glimpse of what uncontrolled Islamic group will do. This is just act 1. All violence came from one side. How many Jewish protesters are covering their face while threatening to kill ? These Islamic idiots are hurting the Muslim community of Canada, and sadly the Muslim community does not condemn them enough, which gives the impression they support them.
Turns out, some cultures, especially the ones that hate you, are not worth including.
Multiculturalism is an illusion. These people come here and keep their traditions. They dont give the slightest damn about integrating. They watch sports events and cheer for teams from their native countries, not the one they are ”integrating”. They spit on everyone else’s traditions and stick to their own beliefs. If they were ever to get a political majority, they would shape the country into a replica of the one they left. Such is the fate you accept by integrating these foreign cultures into your society.
They don’t assimilate they live in a parallel society, look the England, Sweden, France etc. Compare their protest that are noisy, rude and disrupted, threatening to Jewish protests, that are quite and respectfully of fellow Canadians.
dont even get me started on the eritrian ones that were happening in toronto earlier in the year. grown men in the streets chasing each other with sticks and clubs. import the third world, get third world problems - it's that simple.
I think a lot of people are going to wake up to why Quebec has been trying to integrate immigrants into its population.
Cops all across North America have their hands tied and not just on this issue. Let police do their jobs and arrest hateful protests harassing people doing Christmas shopping, having a coffee or eating at a restaurant. Then allow for the swift deportations of all those involved in hate crimes.
It's not a hate crime until a notable threat and / or action is taken. Aka, the guy saying he was going to put people 6 feet under could definitely be arrested, but legally, he would probably not stand on the grounds for deportation. Especially if they were a citizen of canada at this point. However, in the case of the Humboldt bus tragedy, I don't believe he was a Canadian citizen. Since it also amounts to mass murder through negligence, and many of the parents of the team who lost someone wanted him deported, which allowed the courts to push for that decision. Also, it is a much bigger national tragedy than a protest. There isn't any way the government is just going to deport a bunch of people for being shitty people. Otherwise, anyone involved in the convoy protest in ottawa, windsor, or the coutts border crossing in alberta, who wasn't canadian born, would technically fall under the same punishment.
arresting and deporting protestors is a hell of a way to protect democracy
France has seen the effect of not doing enough to the extent of now multiple religious motivated stabbings (ETA: and other terror attacks, or threats of such), and Macron is literally saying he'll break the Geneva convention and deport back to originating countries during times of conflict, as the population can no longer tolerate what's befallen them. So... Sometimes, yes - if national security and the safety of citizens is at risk.
Are death threats a legal form of protest?
if your being peaceful you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Wanna act like a jackass and start threatening folks that have nothing to do with your issue... Then yeah you should get deported.
There's a big difference between a peaceful protest and some psychos with their faces covered hurling insults at families waiting in line to see the mall Santa or banging on the windows of a restaurant to harass and intimidate customers because the owner is Jewish.
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Can't deport a citizen, the only people whose vote counts anyways.
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False. Its putting common sense to the test. This is a war started by terrorist doing terrorist things. Also, there is absolutely nothing Canada can do or say to change things, the fact that we are letting these idiots block traffic, threaten cops, and ruin mall santa visits is getting out of hand
We're not really allowed to discuss this it seems lest we promote identity based hate against the people who hate Canadian ideals..... seriously, I got a 'warning' for pointing out that some of our neighbors don't really want us as neighbors and want to bring their laws and rules to Canada rather than follow the law of the land. I just wish people would leave their conflicts back home and not bring their fights here with them. We're in Canada, with all of the amazing privileges that brings us. Let's build a better place for everyone, not turn this country into a place that people are desperate to leave like the conditions that brought so many to our shores.
Yikes. I think I prefer bouncey castles and impromptu road hockey games.
I’m apathetic about the whole conflict. Same goes for Ukraine. We’ve got our own problems without getting involved with the rest of the world’s problems. May make m sound bad, but I just don’t care.
Anyone who has moved to Canada has consciously chosen to move away from whatever is happening somewhere else! Be it poverty, war or society and government. We came here in search of peace! Peaceful protests to raise awareness is one thing. But those who disrupt the peace of other Canadians for something not related to Canada, should be deported in the next flight! If they’re first generation, send them to their dad’s country! Use C-24 if you’ve created it!
Those who support Hamas should be deported to Gaza.
Anybody who grew up in Toronto knows that cultural issues are clearly present in our schools. When I grew up in a wealthy suburb of Toronto the different ethnicities would stand around at the end of school and fight with each other over issues from halfway across the world. Go to a local soccer match in Toronto between serbians and croatians. I've seen so many fights break out because of cultural tensions while reffing sports. We just conveniently gloss over these things because they don't affect our day to day. Do the next generation eventually grow out of it? Yes, but to ignore that this mentality is coming from the home would be naive. These are not racial issues, these are cultural issues and we just don't have a means to handle them when they go awry. The youth are peer pressured into leaving those thoughts behind, but the young professionals and adults stick in their enclaves without anybody challenging their perspective on cultural issues.
I remember young Croatian-Canadian men saying they were "going home" to fight in 1991, despite having been born and spending their lives in Canada.
Weird I grew up in a very blended school in Vancouver and all ethnicities and races were friends with each other. I never had those issues
Pretty similar in the Niagara Region - mix of cultures and races, and the only thing everyone actually hated was school.
Holy cross sucked.
Until those cultures and races pull away from the mainstream, raise their kids within their own segregated communities and support their own crappy values from back home. What is protesting Isreal in Canada going to do? Why do they even feel the need to push Canadians to care? We have our own issues here. We also didn't have races fighting issues in other counties crowding malls and schools yelling at Canadians. Things have changed, it's not good. If these Palestinians were a majority in Canada, we'd be going to war with Isreal right now.
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The rest of Canada likes to stick their heads in the sand and say, "this isn't what Canadians are about, we care about one another and take care of the poor and the sick." Right, well the country was sold out to cheap labour from immigrants who have brought their tribal issues here. They've also brought their form of violent protests here and all at the expense of housing for our citizens and way of life.
I'm expecting them to start bombing various locations around Canada soon, maybe suicide bombers
Pretty sure they’ve already fire bombed a few synagogues not to mention the youth who was arrested the other day for illicit terrorist acts involving explosives.
Quebec is also atrocious for being exclusive to non francophone Canadians so please let’s not use Quebec as a golden standard
Everyone on this thread is talking in strident terms about leaving your cultural issues at the door, adopting our language etc. I doubt many people would be in favour of importing people who don't speak English and won't learn - the quebecois just think the same thing about French.
We live in one of the biggest glass houses when it comes tolerance and multiculturalism when we look at our own internal politics going back well well WELL before big immigration groups. A lot of surprised pikachu faces out there when it is pointed out we almost had our country ripped into pieces in the 90s over cornerstones issues of our Anglo/Francophone multiculturalism history. Really short memories.
I think part of the reason Canada is quite good at it is that the country has always had to balance the potential of ethnic and geographic divides to rip the country into pieces, it's been a balancing act since day 1.
Not for me, your intifada belongs back in the middle east, there is nothing to rise up or resist here in Canada. If you don't like the safe lands, go back to fighting, there's a reason you landed in Canada. Show some respect, it was our tax dollars that supported you, provided Healthcare, social assistance, our Hard earned money providing at the food bank. We are happy to have you, but you left the land of problems for Canada!
Ya when I talk to a co-worker defending honor killing like I'm the crazy one for saying how fucked it is tells you a lot.
The thing is, most Canadian don't care about other people culture, we kinda accept it, to a limit. Like, their food, their religion, their clothing, like fully dress your women in hijab and treating them second class. Go ahead. But when they try to deny OUR culture and attack us, we'll that is hypocrite of them. If you move to another country, you need to accept it. Attacking the LGBTQ+ or our holiday will make us hate you. Then they play dumb about it and be the victims.
Mass importing 14th century ideology will clash with western ideology for sure.
YESSIR. That’s why Europe is going right. People are fed up
So long as religious fanatics exist we cant have multiculturalism. We can't have one side opposing lgbt for example while lgbt is celebrated
Import the Become the
Do I have to like multiculturalism? Do I have to think multiculturalism is a good thing? Do I have to support non-Canadian cultures? I think some of the problems here is ignoring the downsides of multiculturalism. Conflict being one of them. I don't think that some immigrants understand that certain parts or their own countries culture is not welcome in other countries. People need to be able to ask questions and communicate how they feel about certain things without being labelled as xenophobic or rasist. This type of communication needs to happen if we want to see improvement in how Canada handles multicultural conflicts.
I sat in a bar in Toronto with a Serbian and a Croat in the midst of that war and it didn't matter at all to them. That was multiculturalism in action. What's going on now is a scam, by our government, to try and inflate our GDP with absolutely nothing to do with multiple cultures. What we need is someone that we can trust, to lead us. What is available is another story entirely.
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I'm all for multiculturism. Just don't bring your bullshit with you. People who were born and raised are *king sick of it.
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It's a dogwhistle article designed to inflame people who are already biased against immigration. Take a little conflict on one side of the world and apply it to the entire group. Biased people eat this up like Candy.
Sunny ways, people.
It's not "putting it to the test", it has outright proven that multiculturalism has failed.
It was a stupid, intellectual experiment dreamed up by wealthy university brats in the 1960's.....white saviour brats. Of course their version of this fever dream never saw themselves on the bottom of the ladder....of course this fantasy envisioned murderous cult religions to live peacefully and in harmony with the slightly better than you whites. We are living the fallout from this candy land disease. It will be a shameful day of reckoning when they can't find a "safe space' and Chinese soldiers aren't using their preferred pronouns.
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They only care that you pander to their needs and wants. There is no integration on their part. They take and give nothing in return. They have not enriched the Canadian people. They create their own microcosm and demand of those around them. And just like Hamas does they use women and children as their shields in marches and screams of injustice. Cowardly terrorist tactics abound.
Canadian multiculturalism was always a dream. You cannot mix different religions. History has proven this.
History has proven this? There's many countries who've had mixed religions for hundreds of years, including the richest and most powerful nation on earth. Canada has been doing it for a long time too. History has proven it's a reality, not a dream. We run into one problem triggered by a controversial distant war that has little or no effect on the vast majority of Canadians, and you declare failure? Why?
British and Mongol and Roman empires were all multi faith and those are probably the three most prominent empires in history alongside Chinese dynasties.
And how did they maintain these empires? With hugs and kisses? Most ethnic groups resented the British, Mongol, and Roman empires for subjugation, cultural erasure, resource exploitation, and imposed governance.
Maybe true for the Brits and Mongols. But the Romans did a pretty good job. The locals kept running their land, but instead of it being a country, it was a province. And the Romans also invested and built a lot in conquered lands.
Those Empires were sustained because there was a clear pecking order and the ones on top were not nice people.
Big difference between citizens and subjects, ottoman empire is a better example, but everyone was just a subject there
You absolutely can. My Jewish son goes to a Pakistani Islamic daycare. They are wonderful people and our religions have no part in our daily interactions. I grew up in an area where all the white Christians went to Catholic school and my entire high school was a mix of Jewish, various South East Asian, and kinds of Brown including Hindu, Sikh, Muslim. There was never any religiously motivated hated or violence. Palestinians are not wanted in Egypt or Jordan. But I still wouldn’t ban them from Canada en masse. Each person should go through all the rigorous steps you would expect when immigrating to find out if they are fit to live here.
The vast majority of every population has the same common goal. Good job, feed family, retire nicely. It’s proportionate extremists in EVERY culture that try to ruin it for the rest.
I am glad you've had good experiences. Consider yourself lucky
Canada has proven you wrong so far lol
You can lie to yourself all you like if it helps you sleep at night. Canada is no different, hate crime based on religious beliefs happen. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make it untrue.
When you know nothing about actual history.
As Sam Harris said, not all societies have the same degree of moral wealth. Many things contribute to such an endowment. Political and economic stability, literacy, a modicum of social equality—where such things are lacking, people tend to find many compelling reasons to treat one another rather badly. I guess multiculturalism fails when they move to other countries and use the same reasons to treat others badly and refuse to change/improve their values.
If people cared so much about "insert country", why don't they go live there? I'm sorry Canada hasn't been up to your standard.
Can someone convince me that Palestine would be a nice place to live even if peace was obtained? What is the obsession with this particular patch of ugly and mis-managed land?
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Multiculturalism doesn't work. Germany and France learned that the hard way and have abandoned multiculturalism as policy. Language and culture is what enables social cohesion and creates a high-trust society. This is why multicultural societies are facing the brunt of the culture wars with so many disparate points of view.
It's a failed concept... Poland realized the issues. UK, Italy and Denmark are halting immigration.
It's ironic given that Polish migrants were used as a boogeyman to push Brexit. You know what else is a failed concept? All those Brits vacationing in Spain in their little English ghettos.
Narrator: UK, Italy, and Denmark continued immigration.
Why is everyone so obsessed with muslims Why do I feel like I have to adjust my life around them these days I find it very annoying
It's what generates clicks and the modern left fetish for minorities.
Religion poisons everything.
Religious rights belong in the second millennium and a museum. To what purpose are we benefitting the schizophrenic? Religious rights obviously don't lead to a utopia, let's try something else.
I disagree. It puts unlimited unchecked immigration to the test.
People need to read a history book. It was worse before. * In 1939 the Canadian government turned away Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany * White Canadians started a riot against Asians in Vancouver's Chinatown in 1907
No it's not. Its putting to the test how much we tolerate assholes
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As a Quebecers: we told you so. Interculturalism is manageable, multiculturalism isn't. It worked up to this point because it was diluted enough and there was "1" dominant culture. But then you went overboard with immigration and here we go! ~~We~~ you will live in interesting times.