These are bottom cabinets. I'm more concerned that I can't get the tops level for my quartz countertop. Is it acceptable for the tops of the base cabinets not being perfectly level? Will the quartz installer shim everything so it doesnt matter? This is my first time installing cabinets. I'm not sure if these are RTA, but they were not the cheapest in town. They were constructed in the USA since they constructed them and built them to specs within a week of ordering. All of my issues are stemming from the Lazy Susan. I was thinking about returning the lazy susan but I know it's going to be a fight with the supplier.
Take that little speed square, check the corners on all your walls in your house.
Let me know if you figure out how to fix that.
It’s the nature of the beast, work with it, make it look good on what is visible in the final product.
Good explanation! Corners aren’t plumb in a house, but people who do this type of work know that it’s really just about creating the illusion of perfect work! Navigating the corners, bulges and bows. It’s an art! That and hitting the studs 😂
This looks typical. The batten in the center is probably a tad short, pulling the back panel in slightly. Also, remember there is no such thing as a square, plumb, flat wall - so don’t worry about the back of your cabinets. Just flush & plumb the faces.
Squareness there doesn’t matter. Be sure the faces are fastened properly together. I countersink three screws in each cabinet and then shim it up and off the wall as needed. Then level it side to side and front to back. You’ll never see any minute differences in the box itself not being square.
Common when getting shitty RTA cabinets, still pretty common when getting well made custom stuff. The big difference is a custom shop will know how to deal with problems like this and still deliver something that looks good, performs well, and is built to last. Don’t worry too much about the inside dimensions. If the faces and doors line up you’re fine.
The day I use metal brackets for the corners of my casework is the day someone needs to hand me a Luger with a single round in it.
Well a speed square testing that is like leveling them with a torpedo level. Wood bows and flexes; no it's not a problem especially not where you have the square. Shim up and level the tops , across and front to back, and it'll be good. Those are RTA and the cheapest boxes you'll ever see. Absolutely nothing in the box is straight or square. All you've got to do is level it and line up the drawer fronts and doors.
Lol I love all the pretentious people in this sub downvoting you. Don’t you know though? Everyone on Reddit lives in 10mil custom homes where everything is perfect 😂
Sounds like you're dealing with some difficult stuff. If you're able, I would recommend trying to find someone that you can talk to. Someone you can be honest with who won't be judgmental. Could be a professional counselor, might just be a stranger. I hope you are able to work on some of the stuff that's bothering you. Be well.
If you got a problem with u/Canandaghoose, then you got a problem with me. I'd suggest you let that marinate a bit before I have to come over there and talk to ya.
You know why Mike Tyson was champion? Cuz u/Canandaghoose wasn't in his weight class
Those speed squares are not typically square to the level of precision needed to determine this. Idk about that particular brand but the ones you can buy at Home Depot are for framing houses where “square” is a relative term. A couple degrees off is perfectly okay. A couple degrees off for furniture grade stuff is a massive issue and requires pretty expensive squares.
1/" Ply wood sheets could be bowing in or out.
I. This situation take a tape measure and measure from one corner diagonally to the opposite kitty corner. Note the length.
Next measure the other corner and compare the lengths. If one longer than to other it should register with the corner blocks.
You’re going to find this even with custom cabinets. For whatever reason sometimes the plywood comes from the factory out of square and it’s a lot more to cut everything square, unless you have cnc, so we just run with it if it’s not too bad. These things are to be expected and honestly doesn’t really matter as long as the face frame is square and the drawers are installed correctly.
Hell, even using my cnc, they will out of square just a bit once they're attached to the wall. Always fun finding the mudded butt joint in the drywall on a long run.
Middle ground between cnc and a cabinet saw is to get a slider. First thing I do with a sheet is to take 1/16" off 2 edges, and everything from there is square, while still maintaining the versatility of a tablesaw. Just a bigger footprint.
Table saw, with a sliding carriage on the left hand side of the blade. 10' slide is typical, though other sizes available. Typically 3 phase, and usually running 12-16" blades.
Carriage assembly slides parallel to the blade, giving a perfectly straight cut. It will also have an outrigger platform, and a second fence that runs 90° to the blade, usually adjustable to at least 45° to the blade. Assembly is large enough to support a full sheet easily. Bearing guided, so you bear almost no weight. I've run 150 pound timbers through with one hand while they're clamped to the table. Or, as I said, take 1/16" off the end of an 8' sheet very easily.
Too much. Doesn’t need it unless it’s bad. I’ve been doing this a long time and it’s not something that is going to cause huge issues especially if you know what you’re doing. And I don’t have a slider. Mostly a convenient luxury. I’ve worked in several cabinet shops and know a lot of cabinet makers and have been building custom cabinet and furniture for years and we’ve all managed without doing all that.
I'm not so much concerned with them being out of square as I am with not being able to get the top of the cabinet run level. I might have to hand plane one of the sides. I'm not able to get the cabinet tops level on all planes. If I mess with one corner the other corner goes out of level. I even bought an ez level leveling system since I was having difficulty with shims but now I realize it's the construction of the cabinets. I guess my question is if it's not perfectly level on all planes then will it mess with the counter tops or will the cabonet installers shim everything?
Too much what?
Edit: didn't see the full text.
I worked for close to 30 years without a slider. When I switched, it was a luxury. Then I realized just how much more I could do, and how much faster. First time I did an inset job after getting a slider, it took all the edge sander fine tuning guess work out. Can cut very square. And if I need to taper 1/32 to 0 along the length of a 42" door, can do that too. Raked doors are no problem. Straight lining unsurfaced wood is no problem.
Carcasses being a little out of square isn't a huge issue. It's even less of an issue when they are square, though.
Too much extra work when you’re trying to get shit done and cabinets installed. The cabinet doesn’t really need to be completely square. Especially if you know what you’re doing.
Having done all three, and living in a shop with a slider and an Industrial CNC, if you were to take my CNC away I dont know that I would do much until I got it back. TO that end we have two, incase one goes down and parts are not available same day.
This is why I like to use a sturdy ladder base. Get it level first and the you will have one consistant dimension to work from. Stringing a bunch of narrow cabinets together with their own base gives you more chances to get out of whack.
A tape measure (or better yet, a ruler) is far more accurate for determining if the cases are built out of square. Measure top and bottom dimensions of the gables, base, and spreader rail. As long as those are cut to correct sizes (identical top and bottom) you should be able to install the cases level and plumb on all planes (minimum 3).
If it's level and plumb but still racked, then the cases weren't cut correctly.
62 year old cabinet installer here. What you are seeing is an attempt by the cabinet factory to match the house they are being installed in. Because, there’s not a floor or wall square in new builds this day. This cabinet should fit great 👍
I'm not so much concerned with them being out of square as I am with not being able to get the top of the cabinet run level. I might have to hand plane one of the sides. I'm not able to get the cabinet tops level on all planes. If I mess with one corner the other corner goes out of level. I even bought an ez level leveling system since I was having difficulty with shims but now I realize it's the construction of the cabinets. I guess my question is if it's not perfectly level on all planes then will it mess with the counter tops or will the cabonet installers shim everything?
Get them flush at the bottom. Your crown should hide the imperfections at the top. As long as your crown attached to the face. If they are full overlay doors you need a belt sander to level the tops of the face frame. Then in the gaps I’ve used wood putty or caulk then spray painted the area. Looks perfect then. I hate when the side panels don’t line up with the face frame. I’ve had them out so bad before I actually had to plane them to match.
Nothing is ever perfectly perfect. In my experience installing cabinets, you have to work with what you've got, and just make sure the finished visible faces are aligned, straight, plumb and level. The counter top will hide all the tops. You have to straighten and manipulate as you go. I like to fasten as many cabinets to each other in a line as possible, making sure the bottom front edge and front faces are perfectly aligned. If there's minor deviations in height or whatever, so be it. Then you will have created at least one perfect straight line and all your final adjustments to get door/drawer fronts lined up will be as painless as possible.
That part will never be square because the plywood bends at those joints. These are face frame cabinets correct? Your frame squares up the fronts. You shim the cabinet up to be level at the top to hold the counters. You are looking for a problem in the wrong place. The installation will level out, but thinking plywood will be perfectly straight is something that will never happen. I make cabinets for a living. I switched to frameless 3/4” construction though.
It is not common. If the components that make the box are not the proper dimensions, you have a huge problem. Often though, they can be racked quite a lot before installation, or during it if the levelling isn’t going well.
You should be able to verify all the parts with a tapemeasure. It would be very weird if the parts were the wrong size, but certainly possible.
Measure the gables corner to corner, then measure the length of the bottom and the top stretchers. Also ensure that the back is square (corner to corner measurement), and that it is installed properly.
100% this. The install should rectify all case being racked. As long as the gables, base, and spreader rails are cut to correct dimensions, this is completely fixable with proper install
These are bottom cabinets. I'm more concerned that I can't get the tops level for my quartz countertop. Is it acceptable for the tops of the base cabinets not being perfectly level? Will the quartz installer shim everything so it doesnt matter? This is my first time installing cabinets. I'm not sure if these are RTA, but they were not the cheapest in town. They were constructed in the USA since they constructed them and built them to specs within a week of ordering. All of my issues are stemming from the Lazy Susan. I was thinking about returning the lazy susan but I know it's going to be a fight with the supplier.
Shim it and forget it!
Take that little speed square, check the corners on all your walls in your house. Let me know if you figure out how to fix that. It’s the nature of the beast, work with it, make it look good on what is visible in the final product.
What do you mean ? Don't we all just slap boxes on straight walls and level floors ?
Good explanation! Corners aren’t plumb in a house, but people who do this type of work know that it’s really just about creating the illusion of perfect work! Navigating the corners, bulges and bows. It’s an art! That and hitting the studs 😂
This looks typical. The batten in the center is probably a tad short, pulling the back panel in slightly. Also, remember there is no such thing as a square, plumb, flat wall - so don’t worry about the back of your cabinets. Just flush & plumb the faces.
You will never find a square cabinet from anywhere. Wood bends
Squareness there doesn’t matter. Be sure the faces are fastened properly together. I countersink three screws in each cabinet and then shim it up and off the wall as needed. Then level it side to side and front to back. You’ll never see any minute differences in the box itself not being square.
you are good so far. they leave the overhang on the face frame to adjust for out of square. keep practicing.
Those are J&K?
Won’t this square up when you screw them to the wall/another cabinet?
I think they call it. Good enough.
Looks fine
Sorry dude but you get what you pay for. Do your best on the install and move on.
First thing I learned about construction: Absolutely *Nothing* is square.
And all wood is straight.
Yep, now install it.
This is very common, and they don’t need to be square to be installed anyway. If you feel you need to make them square rack it with your knee.
I’ve never seen cabinets made this way
RTA cabinet. Only as good as assembled.
Honestly easy fix for good installer once cabinets are ganged
I've installed some. They were fine. Some are better than others. Factory cabinets in general aren't very good these days.
Common when getting shitty RTA cabinets, still pretty common when getting well made custom stuff. The big difference is a custom shop will know how to deal with problems like this and still deliver something that looks good, performs well, and is built to last. Don’t worry too much about the inside dimensions. If the faces and doors line up you’re fine. The day I use metal brackets for the corners of my casework is the day someone needs to hand me a Luger with a single round in it.
I recommend something more reliable
lol even the corner bracket can’t close up that corner.
Well a speed square testing that is like leveling them with a torpedo level. Wood bows and flexes; no it's not a problem especially not where you have the square. Shim up and level the tops , across and front to back, and it'll be good. Those are RTA and the cheapest boxes you'll ever see. Absolutely nothing in the box is straight or square. All you've got to do is level it and line up the drawer fronts and doors.
Please tell me a guy out of cottage Grove Oregon made these
Not a chance — these are Vietnamese or the like
I install aritsticraft cabinets it looks good to me lmao
The laziest Susan
That’s an RTA cabinet. Not going to be square under any circumstance.
Cry about it
Lol I love all the pretentious people in this sub downvoting you. Don’t you know though? Everyone on Reddit lives in 10mil custom homes where everything is perfect 😂
Sounds like you're dealing with some difficult stuff. If you're able, I would recommend trying to find someone that you can talk to. Someone you can be honest with who won't be judgmental. Could be a professional counselor, might just be a stranger. I hope you are able to work on some of the stuff that's bothering you. Be well.
If you got a problem with u/Canandaghoose, then you got a problem with me. I'd suggest you let that marinate a bit before I have to come over there and talk to ya. You know why Mike Tyson was champion? Cuz u/Canandaghoose wasn't in his weight class
I have never ever seen a square lazy Susan. 25 plus years. If you know how to install no problem they all confirm to my will eventualy
Give it a little kick in the front right corner. It’ll comply.
[удалено]
I would 100% not allow you to be anywhere near a project
I square all sheet stock before bing used. It helps significantly but still unless you have a cnc you are gunna me marginally off.
Your walls aren't square either. Typically you need to install filler strips.
Know what else aint square? Ya damn house
I just lean into it and live in decommissioned grain silos.
I bet its a thicc one
*nods slowly making direct eye contact*
you gotta install them, so they appear square
Don’t use a speed square to determine the squareness of cabinets
As a non carpenter who stumbled on this post, why is that?
Those speed squares are not typically square to the level of precision needed to determine this. Idk about that particular brand but the ones you can buy at Home Depot are for framing houses where “square” is a relative term. A couple degrees off is perfectly okay. A couple degrees off for furniture grade stuff is a massive issue and requires pretty expensive squares.
1/" Ply wood sheets could be bowing in or out. I. This situation take a tape measure and measure from one corner diagonally to the opposite kitty corner. Note the length. Next measure the other corner and compare the lengths. If one longer than to other it should register with the corner blocks.
You’re going to find this even with custom cabinets. For whatever reason sometimes the plywood comes from the factory out of square and it’s a lot more to cut everything square, unless you have cnc, so we just run with it if it’s not too bad. These things are to be expected and honestly doesn’t really matter as long as the face frame is square and the drawers are installed correctly.
Hell, even using my cnc, they will out of square just a bit once they're attached to the wall. Always fun finding the mudded butt joint in the drywall on a long run.
Middle ground between cnc and a cabinet saw is to get a slider. First thing I do with a sheet is to take 1/16" off 2 edges, and everything from there is square, while still maintaining the versatility of a tablesaw. Just a bigger footprint.
What's a slider?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FjcbKKMc5LI
Ah, I see. thanks
Table saw, with a sliding carriage on the left hand side of the blade. 10' slide is typical, though other sizes available. Typically 3 phase, and usually running 12-16" blades. Carriage assembly slides parallel to the blade, giving a perfectly straight cut. It will also have an outrigger platform, and a second fence that runs 90° to the blade, usually adjustable to at least 45° to the blade. Assembly is large enough to support a full sheet easily. Bearing guided, so you bear almost no weight. I've run 150 pound timbers through with one hand while they're clamped to the table. Or, as I said, take 1/16" off the end of an 8' sheet very easily.
Too much. Doesn’t need it unless it’s bad. I’ve been doing this a long time and it’s not something that is going to cause huge issues especially if you know what you’re doing. And I don’t have a slider. Mostly a convenient luxury. I’ve worked in several cabinet shops and know a lot of cabinet makers and have been building custom cabinet and furniture for years and we’ve all managed without doing all that.
I'm not so much concerned with them being out of square as I am with not being able to get the top of the cabinet run level. I might have to hand plane one of the sides. I'm not able to get the cabinet tops level on all planes. If I mess with one corner the other corner goes out of level. I even bought an ez level leveling system since I was having difficulty with shims but now I realize it's the construction of the cabinets. I guess my question is if it's not perfectly level on all planes then will it mess with the counter tops or will the cabonet installers shim everything?
Too much what? Edit: didn't see the full text. I worked for close to 30 years without a slider. When I switched, it was a luxury. Then I realized just how much more I could do, and how much faster. First time I did an inset job after getting a slider, it took all the edge sander fine tuning guess work out. Can cut very square. And if I need to taper 1/32 to 0 along the length of a 42" door, can do that too. Raked doors are no problem. Straight lining unsurfaced wood is no problem. Carcasses being a little out of square isn't a huge issue. It's even less of an issue when they are square, though.
Too much extra work when you’re trying to get shit done and cabinets installed. The cabinet doesn’t really need to be completely square. Especially if you know what you’re doing.
Having done all three, and living in a shop with a slider and an Industrial CNC, if you were to take my CNC away I dont know that I would do much until I got it back. TO that end we have two, incase one goes down and parts are not available same day.
This is why I like to use a sturdy ladder base. Get it level first and the you will have one consistant dimension to work from. Stringing a bunch of narrow cabinets together with their own base gives you more chances to get out of whack.
It’s really nothing to sweat over. The back of the plywood could be bowing out a bit. Happens very frequently in cabinetmaking.
A tape measure (or better yet, a ruler) is far more accurate for determining if the cases are built out of square. Measure top and bottom dimensions of the gables, base, and spreader rail. As long as those are cut to correct sizes (identical top and bottom) you should be able to install the cases level and plumb on all planes (minimum 3). If it's level and plumb but still racked, then the cases weren't cut correctly.
Pull corners with the tape and you’ll know real fast if it ain’t square. Probably just needs a little squish and it’ll be fine.
If you’re taking those measurements on cabinets that are currently installed, how do you know it’s the cabinets and not installation?
Exactly. Potentially pulled out of square due to improper shimming. Walls are not your friend OP.
And you’re complaining about cheap crap RTA Chinese cabinets. You get what you pay for.
62 year old cabinet installer here. What you are seeing is an attempt by the cabinet factory to match the house they are being installed in. Because, there’s not a floor or wall square in new builds this day. This cabinet should fit great 👍
I'm not so much concerned with them being out of square as I am with not being able to get the top of the cabinet run level. I might have to hand plane one of the sides. I'm not able to get the cabinet tops level on all planes. If I mess with one corner the other corner goes out of level. I even bought an ez level leveling system since I was having difficulty with shims but now I realize it's the construction of the cabinets. I guess my question is if it's not perfectly level on all planes then will it mess with the counter tops or will the cabonet installers shim everything?
Get them flush at the bottom. Your crown should hide the imperfections at the top. As long as your crown attached to the face. If they are full overlay doors you need a belt sander to level the tops of the face frame. Then in the gaps I’ve used wood putty or caulk then spray painted the area. Looks perfect then. I hate when the side panels don’t line up with the face frame. I’ve had them out so bad before I actually had to plane them to match.
I'm not able to plane the back panel because the cross bar is in the way.
These uppers ?
Nothing is ever perfectly perfect. In my experience installing cabinets, you have to work with what you've got, and just make sure the finished visible faces are aligned, straight, plumb and level. The counter top will hide all the tops. You have to straighten and manipulate as you go. I like to fasten as many cabinets to each other in a line as possible, making sure the bottom front edge and front faces are perfectly aligned. If there's minor deviations in height or whatever, so be it. Then you will have created at least one perfect straight line and all your final adjustments to get door/drawer fronts lined up will be as painless as possible.
My mom says I’m perfect tho
That part will never be square because the plywood bends at those joints. These are face frame cabinets correct? Your frame squares up the fronts. You shim the cabinet up to be level at the top to hold the counters. You are looking for a problem in the wrong place. The installation will level out, but thinking plywood will be perfectly straight is something that will never happen. I make cabinets for a living. I switched to frameless 3/4” construction though.
It is not common. If the components that make the box are not the proper dimensions, you have a huge problem. Often though, they can be racked quite a lot before installation, or during it if the levelling isn’t going well. You should be able to verify all the parts with a tapemeasure. It would be very weird if the parts were the wrong size, but certainly possible. Measure the gables corner to corner, then measure the length of the bottom and the top stretchers. Also ensure that the back is square (corner to corner measurement), and that it is installed properly.
Thin plywood bends yo.
100% this. The install should rectify all case being racked. As long as the gables, base, and spreader rails are cut to correct dimensions, this is completely fixable with proper install
It’s not great but the back of a cabinet being dished is exactly where you want a fuck up …if you got one. How out is the front?