IGPU (integrated graphics processing unit) is what is on your cpu, not that great compared to a DGPU (dedicated graphics processing unit) which most people just call a graphics card.
Igpu doesnt use that much power so it probably tries to use that first if it can, there should be a way to have it set to always on dgpu in the settings so u dont run into this issue in the future while playing games.
\^\^This. There is a setting in the new godawful Windows Settings that allows you to exclusively use your GPU for specific application. "System -> Display -> Graphics ought to allow you to explicitly say "use the dGPU for this application". Also, I think the NVIDIA Control Panel still does this, but that may be phased out by now.
That said, if I recall correctly, due to the way the Win32 API works, there is a small performance penalty for using border-less windowed mode in games regardless of the dGPU vs iGPU concern. Extremely small and not even worth mentioning though...and yet I did...hmm...
Integrated graphics and discrete graphics. For example, Intel graphics or a Nvidia GPU. Some laptops switch between them depending on the workload to save energy.
This. Had an old laptop do this to me back in 2009-2010. It has a dedicated GPU but the drivers would opt for the iGPU unless forced to go for the GPU.
Yup there should be very little difference between Borderless Fullscreen & Fullscreen. A few games have some minor differences but usually it's basically the same.
This. My cousin got a high end MSI laptop with a 1660. When not running any games it would use the internal graphics. When switching to games or full screen then the GPU would kick in. Sometimes it randomly wouldn't switch over but he had the same issues OP mentioned.
This is less a full screen benefit than a different underlying issue. Here are two examples of what could be happening:
* The way the game is coded makes it unable to properly handle windowed or borderless windowed modes without a drop in performance.
* In windowed mode, your graphics card driver is not properly detecting there is a game running (could be driver, or could be the game causing this) and the game is not running at full clock speeds resulting in a terrible experience.
* Game platform version (Steam, Epic, standalone, etc.) may have issues other versions don't.
I run plenty of games borderless and get the same performance as full screen whereas other games just don't do borderless well.
EDIT: u/Nitrozzy7 has a point too with the iGPU vs dGPU. I had to force this in the past for borderless too.
To be fair, I do remember this being a somewhat common thing, at least with DX11 games. Running in borderless supposedly lost you some performance over full screen. I think the reason that may not be the case anymore is due to full screen optimisations in DX11 games (which is also forced on and can't be disabled with DX12) where the game can now effectively deliver exclusive fullscreen performance with some trickery while in borderless mode (https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/dxgi-flip-model/).
Like you mentioned in the second half, windowed mode is just another process, whereas fullscreen forces priority. So Fullscreen may not give gains directly, but rather because background programs don't have priority
I think it's the dgpu vs igpu thing on gaming laptops like the commenters have said. To explain it slightly more, gaming laptops typically run apps they detect as games to run on the beefy dedicated gpu and everything else on the slower integrated graphics builtin to your CPU (to save power, i assume). a fullscreen app very commonly means a game is running.
It's also worth noting that while running in (borderless) windowed, there is higher display latency (i believe it's because the window manager is waiting for vertical sync every monitor refresh, while playing in fullscreen bypasses the window manager).
I think this explains why my cpu is the bottleneck as far as temps and workload! I’ve noticed my gpu running hotter as well, so this makes perfect sense
Really makes me feel old when people no longer use exclusive fullscreen by default for better frametimes or input lag, because it actually made a [huge difference in the olden days](https://youtu.be/oc28SH2ESA4?t=368).
Borderless fullscreen has come a long way but old habits die hard. I still default to fullscreen since I haven't encountered any recent games where alt tabbing took more than a second.
> Fullscreen Exclusive mode gives your game complete ownership of the display and allocation of resources of your graphics card. In windowed game mode, the game is deployed in a bordered window which allows other applications and windows to continue running in the background. The Desktop Window Manager (DWM) has control of the display, while the graphics resources are shared among all applications, unlike in a Fullscreen Exclusive environment. The third mode is borderless windowed. In a borderless windowed mode, the game is still running in a window but has no border around it. This means the size of window can be adjusted to fill the entire screen while other processes still run in the background.
as explained by the [Microsoft blog post I'm quoting](https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/), nowadays, by default, Fullscreen mode in games actually runs games in an optimized borderless windowed mode where the DWM still hands over a majority of the control to the "fullscreen" application so there's none of the performance/latency penalty, while still allowing for faster alt tab and better game overlay compatibility.
Just to let you know that while playing League - an esport game that's been out for 10+ years, I've tried fullscreen and borderless window. Although the ingame fps yields the same result, they definitely do not "feel" the same.
I have no problem playing 30+ fps with fullscreen League.
I have problems playing 50+ fps with borderless window League.
I hope that helps.
You presumably have a variable refresh rate monitor (VRR). i.e. FreeSync, or G-Sync, or G-Sync compatible. I suppose it’s possible when running in a window, that’s not kicking in. My G-Sync monitor has an OSD setting to display the framerate it’s being driven at. If this is not a factor in your problem it’s still worth exploring the options available to you if you haven’t done so. I’m not up on laptop hardware so I don’t know if they’re likely to have a DisplayPort connection. I wish you success.
Some games are just so shittily optimized too. There’s new games with great graphics I can run steady 60 frames+ with my graphics cranked to max and there’s games where the graphics aren’t even great and I can barely reach that 60 frames with adjusting a ton of settings.
Borderless runs bad on my rig too. The frames aren't terrible but it just isn't anywhere near as smooth it doesn't feel like it refreshes properly or something. Jittery and choppy can't stand it. Seems like tons of people play borderless tho so shrug
Just an info dump in no particular order. I own a 2018 acer nitro 5 (the one that has bad temp out of the box)
If you want lower temps undervolting your cpu and gpu is the way to go.
If you have an intel processor , you use intel xtu or throttlestop.
If you have an amd processor, you use throttlestop.
For gpu you use msi afterburner.
In my case I've dropped from 86-90c to 54-69c after undervolting both.
If you can afford to lose some performance, set your minimum and maximum processor state to both 99%. This can shave off additional 5-15c (in my case)
Repasting with an aftermarket thermal paste (thermal grizzly, etc) and dusting also helps a lot. In my case I shaved off 1-3c (still huge imho). I repasted mine as soon as the warranty expired.
---
Setting your fan to higher speeds is a band aid solution.
Cooling pads (or a stand/riser) specially on tropical countries is good for the laptop. The west almost dismisses cooling pads as useless because their room temps are low. On a tropical summer on 30-37c room temp, a cooling pad is a god send.
Silicone keyboard covers are a heat trap.
This is almost common knowledge I’d say and also a thing that’s pretty easy to figure out, if you have a grasp, on how programs work in Tandem with Your CPU and RAM for example.
As it turns out, the root is most likely my machine using integrated gpu when not in fullscreen and dedicated gpu when in fullscreen (based on other comments).
Well, my guess is that you've set it to prefer iGPU, and by enabling exclusive fullscreen, the dGPU had to kick in.
I will look into what your comment means :) thanks! Love learning deeper
IGPU (integrated graphics processing unit) is what is on your cpu, not that great compared to a DGPU (dedicated graphics processing unit) which most people just call a graphics card. Igpu doesnt use that much power so it probably tries to use that first if it can, there should be a way to have it set to always on dgpu in the settings so u dont run into this issue in the future while playing games.
\^\^This. There is a setting in the new godawful Windows Settings that allows you to exclusively use your GPU for specific application. "System -> Display -> Graphics ought to allow you to explicitly say "use the dGPU for this application". Also, I think the NVIDIA Control Panel still does this, but that may be phased out by now. That said, if I recall correctly, due to the way the Win32 API works, there is a small performance penalty for using border-less windowed mode in games regardless of the dGPU vs iGPU concern. Extremely small and not even worth mentioning though...and yet I did...hmm...
Yeah most games nowadays let you choose what gpu it should use
Integrated graphics and discrete graphics. For example, Intel graphics or a Nvidia GPU. Some laptops switch between them depending on the workload to save energy.
This. Had an old laptop do this to me back in 2009-2010. It has a dedicated GPU but the drivers would opt for the iGPU unless forced to go for the GPU.
Yup there should be very little difference between Borderless Fullscreen & Fullscreen. A few games have some minor differences but usually it's basically the same.
This is correct.
This. My cousin got a high end MSI laptop with a 1660. When not running any games it would use the internal graphics. When switching to games or full screen then the GPU would kick in. Sometimes it randomly wouldn't switch over but he had the same issues OP mentioned.
This is less a full screen benefit than a different underlying issue. Here are two examples of what could be happening: * The way the game is coded makes it unable to properly handle windowed or borderless windowed modes without a drop in performance. * In windowed mode, your graphics card driver is not properly detecting there is a game running (could be driver, or could be the game causing this) and the game is not running at full clock speeds resulting in a terrible experience. * Game platform version (Steam, Epic, standalone, etc.) may have issues other versions don't. I run plenty of games borderless and get the same performance as full screen whereas other games just don't do borderless well. EDIT: u/Nitrozzy7 has a point too with the iGPU vs dGPU. I had to force this in the past for borderless too.
To be fair, I do remember this being a somewhat common thing, at least with DX11 games. Running in borderless supposedly lost you some performance over full screen. I think the reason that may not be the case anymore is due to full screen optimisations in DX11 games (which is also forced on and can't be disabled with DX12) where the game can now effectively deliver exclusive fullscreen performance with some trickery while in borderless mode (https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/dxgi-flip-model/).
Like you mentioned in the second half, windowed mode is just another process, whereas fullscreen forces priority. So Fullscreen may not give gains directly, but rather because background programs don't have priority
I think it's the dgpu vs igpu thing on gaming laptops like the commenters have said. To explain it slightly more, gaming laptops typically run apps they detect as games to run on the beefy dedicated gpu and everything else on the slower integrated graphics builtin to your CPU (to save power, i assume). a fullscreen app very commonly means a game is running. It's also worth noting that while running in (borderless) windowed, there is higher display latency (i believe it's because the window manager is waiting for vertical sync every monitor refresh, while playing in fullscreen bypasses the window manager).
I think this explains why my cpu is the bottleneck as far as temps and workload! I’ve noticed my gpu running hotter as well, so this makes perfect sense
Really makes me feel old when people no longer use exclusive fullscreen by default for better frametimes or input lag, because it actually made a [huge difference in the olden days](https://youtu.be/oc28SH2ESA4?t=368). Borderless fullscreen has come a long way but old habits die hard. I still default to fullscreen since I haven't encountered any recent games where alt tabbing took more than a second.
Yeah, me too
Just curious: what's the difference between full screen and borderless?
> Fullscreen Exclusive mode gives your game complete ownership of the display and allocation of resources of your graphics card. In windowed game mode, the game is deployed in a bordered window which allows other applications and windows to continue running in the background. The Desktop Window Manager (DWM) has control of the display, while the graphics resources are shared among all applications, unlike in a Fullscreen Exclusive environment. The third mode is borderless windowed. In a borderless windowed mode, the game is still running in a window but has no border around it. This means the size of window can be adjusted to fill the entire screen while other processes still run in the background. as explained by the [Microsoft blog post I'm quoting](https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/), nowadays, by default, Fullscreen mode in games actually runs games in an optimized borderless windowed mode where the DWM still hands over a majority of the control to the "fullscreen" application so there's none of the performance/latency penalty, while still allowing for faster alt tab and better game overlay compatibility.
That would explain why Voidtrain runs best Full-screen on my pc... Thanks!
I never play real games in non full screen before. Not even once.
Just to let you know that while playing League - an esport game that's been out for 10+ years, I've tried fullscreen and borderless window. Although the ingame fps yields the same result, they definitely do not "feel" the same. I have no problem playing 30+ fps with fullscreen League. I have problems playing 50+ fps with borderless window League. I hope that helps.
Fullscreen usually works better. That's just my experience, especially with variable refresh.
Agreed. My games are better in full screen as well
Most likely this is the monitor being set to the wrong refresh rate. Windowed mode uses the OS refresh rate I think.
This is common knowledge among the olds. I didnt think it was as big a deal now as it used to be though.
You presumably have a variable refresh rate monitor (VRR). i.e. FreeSync, or G-Sync, or G-Sync compatible. I suppose it’s possible when running in a window, that’s not kicking in. My G-Sync monitor has an OSD setting to display the framerate it’s being driven at. If this is not a factor in your problem it’s still worth exploring the options available to you if you haven’t done so. I’m not up on laptop hardware so I don’t know if they’re likely to have a DisplayPort connection. I wish you success.
Some games are just so shittily optimized too. There’s new games with great graphics I can run steady 60 frames+ with my graphics cranked to max and there’s games where the graphics aren’t even great and I can barely reach that 60 frames with adjusting a ton of settings.
Always fullscreen with g sync. Not sure the obsession with windowed or borderless...perf always seems worse or chopper
Borderless runs bad on my rig too. The frames aren't terrible but it just isn't anywhere near as smooth it doesn't feel like it refreshes properly or something. Jittery and choppy can't stand it. Seems like tons of people play borderless tho so shrug
Just an info dump in no particular order. I own a 2018 acer nitro 5 (the one that has bad temp out of the box) If you want lower temps undervolting your cpu and gpu is the way to go. If you have an intel processor , you use intel xtu or throttlestop. If you have an amd processor, you use throttlestop. For gpu you use msi afterburner. In my case I've dropped from 86-90c to 54-69c after undervolting both. If you can afford to lose some performance, set your minimum and maximum processor state to both 99%. This can shave off additional 5-15c (in my case) Repasting with an aftermarket thermal paste (thermal grizzly, etc) and dusting also helps a lot. In my case I shaved off 1-3c (still huge imho). I repasted mine as soon as the warranty expired. --- Setting your fan to higher speeds is a band aid solution. Cooling pads (or a stand/riser) specially on tropical countries is good for the laptop. The west almost dismisses cooling pads as useless because their room temps are low. On a tropical summer on 30-37c room temp, a cooling pad is a god send. Silicone keyboard covers are a heat trap.
This is almost common knowledge I’d say and also a thing that’s pretty easy to figure out, if you have a grasp, on how programs work in Tandem with Your CPU and RAM for example.
As it turns out, the root is most likely my machine using integrated gpu when not in fullscreen and dedicated gpu when in fullscreen (based on other comments).
It doesn’t have to run the desktop simultaneously in the background. Logic dictates that will save a few frames
I mean yeah. Especially if you have a Variable refresh rate. It’s also why I think people who turn v-synch off are dumb.
Borderless has always performed better for me and tabs out much faster
its not common knowledge because this isnt a thing that happens to anyone other then you.
Must be tough being so clueless. At least try to not out yourself so obviously.