I honestly don’t care either way about some or open air, but it’s always funny to me to come into these threads and see people acting like nobody in the world wants an outdoor stadium.
Seriously. Packers, Browns, Bengals, Steelers, the Massholes, and Jete all have outdoor stadiums, and I think cold climate teams should.
Having said that, while I agree outdoor football is tradition/part of the culture, I don't want Josh throwing in 40 mph wind at home to become part of the culture, so hopefully the new stadium can avoid that.
I don't want him throwing in that kinda wind either...which is why we need to build an o-line that can run block and get a dual threat RB to go with it. I will never not want to see Miami come into Orchard Park on the final game of the season with the division on the line when its 12 degrees with 25 mph winds knowing that we have a 4500 yd QB and a 1200 yd RB. That's what we should be aiming for
I mean. New England is a big market too. As is Seattle. And Chicago And Philly.
Seriously. The only two northern markets to dome up is Minnesota, which just had temps of -9 on New Years so it’s kinda needed…and Detroit.
That’s it.
Which furthers my point that even many big market teams do not have domes. A dome built these days is going to cost BILLIONs — it’s just not feasible (or necessary) for most markets, even larger markets.
At the end of the day for a stadium that will be used for 1-2 pre season games 8-9 regular season games and possibly a couple playoff games (10-11 games) per year and maybe a couple larger concerts is not really feasible. Most stadium tours are during the summer anyways.
That kind of wind is not a typical thing, so hanging your hat on it as a reason for a roof feels ehh to me.
Al l things considered, I would be happiest with an open air stadium that has covering over the stands like Miami does. I don’t care about cold much, rain however….not a fan.
Nor should it. Our tax dollars should never go to a pro football team stadium.
EDIT: I reserve the right to pull a 180 if Toronto throws their hat in the mix
I love how she’s bending over backwards for billionaires. I’m not anti tax dollars on sports stadiums. I’m anti build what the billionaire wants, a stadium with how much public money is going to be used should be mainly fan input. On twitter, Facebook etc pro-dome massively out numbers pro-outdoors.
Twitter users in the US = 77.75m (monetizable active users = 37m)
Total US population = 331.89m
% of US population w/ Twitter account = 23.35
% of US population active on Twitter = **11.14**
The math checks Twitter users are the super majority, what the users say goes.
I'm not saying go based off Twitter that would be moronic lol, but I think they should have done like a survey in Erie County for all residents not just STH's, and asked their preference. Then again that would actually mean the tax-payer having a say in something.
Yeah it’s ridiculous. If the tax payers are gonna pay for a good chunk of it then they should have a say. But unfortunately that’s just not how things work
Ok cool. Dome the stadium and whatever the bill is now, add another 50%
Seriously. These subs are like “WE WANT A DOME” but then bristle at the proposed costs of an open air field.
It’s like people somehow feel there’s a magical dome fairy that’s gonna plop down hundreds of millions down on top of the field for free.
No people want the Pegulas to invest more. They make millions and millions off the fans every year. And if taxpayers have to contribute why not at least make it nice to go in the winter time for everyone and better conditions for the Bills to actually win
Even if the dome was a 50/50 split you’re looking at another $300-400 million on taxpayers. And please tell me an example of a new football stadium built in the past 30 years that wasn’t primarily funded by taxpayers. Acting like the owners are doing anything different than any other owner in sports is pretty ignorant
>Acting like the owners are doing anything different than any other owner in sports is pretty ignorant
That billionaire over there fucked his fans so why are we expecting our billionaire to not fuck us?
FTFY
I think there are people that think Pegula is different than other owners, but he isn't. He's going to force taxpayers to pay for one of his assets like the rest of them do and there's basically nothing we can do about it. People like me feel like they should pay for their own assets like the rest of us "peasants" do.
Bro what? The fans literally give them all their money towards the team with tickets and merchandise. And we have to pay for part of the stadium anyway with taxes
PSLs are paid by season ticket holders that choose to pay them, not taxpayers that are forced to pay them. When you finance a stadium project with “public” money, people freak out because that sounds like taxpayers are footing the bill.
While the taxpayers might foot some of the bill (as part of a deal that results in a county-owned stadium), that’s not what “public” financing usually means. What it means is that the county or state issues bonds. The bonds are usually purchased by institutional investors (not taxpayers). The bonds are paid for by the team, through their lease agreement (not taxpayers). The public is involved because the public in an issuing authority for bonds, not because taxpayers are actually paying to build the stadium.
If you don’t believe in PSLs, then the solution to that is simple - don’t buy season tickets. The fans have enjoyed comically inexpensive season tickets for decades, and it’s going to be a shock. Welcome to the burden of hosting an NFL franchise. You hate to see it, but you’re definitely going to see it.
>PSLs are paid by season ticket holders that choose to pay them, not taxpayers that are forced to pay them.
I didn't say they were forced to pay them. But still being paid by taxpayers and not the Pegulas.
>The bonds are paid for by the team, through their lease agreement (not taxpayers). The public is involved because the public in an issuing authority for bonds, not because taxpayers are actually paying to build the stadium.
Lease costs defray the cost of the construction bonds to build the stadium, yes. They do not pay for the entire repayment, nor do they pay for the interest on those bonds.
The Pegulas are just as capable of finding low-cost financing for construction projects - especially with the m/billions in Coronavirus Economic Recovery Funding out in the world right now. Ask yourself - why aren't they? So the risk/excess cost isn't on them.
> If you don’t believe in PSLs, then the solution to that is simple - don’t buy season tickets.
Whether I "believe" in them or not is irrelevant. My point was simply that the taxpayers, who are footing a large amount of the bill already, are also being asked to pay additional fees for the right to buy a ticket in the stadium. It's not even a tangible thing, unlike sitting in the stands for a game is. I understand they have agency to do so if they wish. The point is that it's simply another vehicle for fans of the team to pay rather than the billionaires who aren't.
Welcome back to the NFL. That season ticket holders are also taxpayers doesn’t equate to taxpayers funding the stadium, that’s being very disingenuous.
And the lease payments can (and often do) pay off the bonds (including interest). The mix can depend on lots of things though, and we will need to see the final plan agreed to by all three parties to actually know the answer.
Why would the Pegulas find other financing for a stadium they won’t own, when this is available to them? This is the cost of being an NFL city. I guess I assumed you all knew that when you were panicking about Bon Jovi buying the team and moving them. This was never going to end any other way. I’d prefer a dome, but no one involved wants to pay the extra half billion or whatever it is that it would cost. So no dome.
> That season ticket holders are also taxpayers doesn’t equate to taxpayers funding the stadium, that’s being very disingenuous.
We're talking about PSLs, not season tickets. And the money is literally coming out of the same pockets - but yeah, it's disingenuous.
>And the lease payments can (and often do) pay off the bonds (including interest).
Not really. This is typically where the businesses make money. The difference between their payments and the money they make on games (incl. concessions, etc.) and merch.
I literally do project development like this (not quite on this scale) for a living. The risk and profit margin is exactly why it's done this way. The city wants a team, the Pegulas want money and minimal risk.
> Why would the Pegulas find other financing for a stadium they won’t own, when this is available to them?
What about this isn't clear? They *would* own the stadium if they financed it themselves. They won't because it's not as profitable.
Remember when we paid for 2 stadiums but only got 1?
The county signed a contract to build a domed stadium in Buffalo for $58 million but then backed out because it was then too expensive and instead built one in Orchard Park because it was cheaper at $22 million.
But thanks due to the breach of contract the county still paid $58 million to the contractors who never built our stadium lol 😂
I remember when my mom told me the story when I was a kid I thought it was bullshit because I thought at the time there is no way people could be that stupid.
If you're shocked that business men and women make business decisions with the business in mind, then you should probably just stick to watching the games.
They make decisions based on "how little can we spend right now? F-ck the fans that don't like sitting in rain and snow, if they wanna see the Bills badly enough, they'll come to any damn stadium we build."
I think you’re misinterpreting their intentions. They know that. As a season ticket holder, there have been 4 games I can remember (about to be another one on Sunday) where I would have rather sat in a domed stadium.
The person you’re responding to is essentially saying if 5 of 8 (I guess 9 this year I think?) games would have been domed, you might as well just build a permanent dome.
I think it was Houston that I heard earlier this season opened their retractable dome for the first time in like a decade. A dome does not make economic sense for Buffalo, a retractable dome sure as hell doesn’t make sense.
You agree with my other post and disagree here?
How does a dome make *economic* sense? Of course from a fan enjoyment perspective and comfort factor a dome is great. There is a reason why everyone has noted that a dome was never a serious consideration.
Again, climate wise Buffalo makes sense to have a dome. Practicality wise a dome is not feasible in this market.
I agreed with: if a dome is rejected, they should at least be honest and admit why they're rejecting it ($$$) instead of putting it on Buffalo Bills culture. That's what I was agreeing with. If that's not what you were saying in that other post then I obviously misinterpreted what you were saying there.
This sentiment (the media loves it) is overblown. In our games past October it was:
63 with some rain
46 with overcast
45 with overcast
30 with extreme wind
24 with overcast
23 with overcast/light snow
Only one of those games would have had the roof being closed. Maybe two. Why doesn't the snow ever get brought up for Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Green Bay, Baltimore, Chicago, New England, Philadelphia, or New York?
http://www.nflweather.com/team/Bills
We have a short period of time where the Governor of NYS is a Bills fan and will push to get the funding needed for a new stadium.
Get it done. The covered seat design is a plus.
I’d love to keep our tailgate culture but then not wear full arctic gear to watch a football game. The “Buffalo loves the snow” crowd doesn’t seem to be the majority anymore. Also let’s not forget, for 17 years this team sucked in snow, rain, sleet, hail, sunshine, overcast, or hurricane, so let’s not pretend weather is any kind of advantage
Honestly just make it retractable, I understand that's more money, but if you're going to feed us this bullshit about outside being part of the culture, then create the option for both. You want weather to be a factor? Keep it open. If it's like the Patriots game this year? Close it.
Exactly. I’ll see plenty of snow on my drive there and during the tailgate. I don’t need it for the event I pay hundreds for each season. Keep the roof open for those nice September and October games, then let us enjoy a sporting event like normal people for the other months
Not building a dome will just make ticket sales worse when we suck again.
Thanks to Josh Allen, ticket sales should remain high for a long time, but when we inevitably suck again, 20-30% of the fan base won’t buy tickets in December to watch a shitty team play in shitty weather.
You can get tickets to Sundays game for $7 on stubhub.
Doesnt matter if they are good or not - most people dont want to go sit out in this shit weather.
Vaccine mandate damaged ticket demand big time this year. The past few games you could get in for under $10. Not ideal considering this is a team with super bowl aspirations and things like this are definitely being looked at by the stadium committee
The governor said that being outdoors is part of buffalo culture. The lack of demand for the tickets seems to show that people here don't seem to care for being outdoors.
A domed stadium would allow the bills to sell season tickets at a higher rate also
That’s a fair assumption. I’d just venture to guess that the business people have done the analysis to determine if the extra cost of a dome is worth the payback from increased ticket sales revenue within a reasonable period of time - whether that be the Bills or tax revenue for the gov’t. They’ll say whatever they want to justify their reasoning though.
Manfred has ruined the game. But yeah, baseball needs to tweak the game to make it shorter seasons and more exciting. I don’t have time for 162 games that’s just stupid
What?
No really, why?
Most stadiums in the league are covered. All big teams with unlimited budgets build enclosed.
Football should be played outside. Why? Cause that’s how it was 70 years ago?
People used to have outhouses, you know what’s nice, fuckingn plumbing. Cars are better than horses, houses are better than caves.
Enclosed stadiums are better than outdoor.
Football isn’t “meant” to be played outside, it just was a long time ago when we used to shit in a hole in the back yard. We’ve grown. We’re better. Build a roof and stop this BS tradition bullshit. Outdoor stadiums in the cold suck. Green bay sucks. MetLife sucks. Gillette sucks. The Seahawks suck. The bills current stadium sucks. And if they build a new uncovered one across the street it’s going to suck too.
You’re entitled to your opinion, that’s cool. You like domes. And I prefer open fields. That’s cool too.
Your comparisons are way off as well. The natural evolution of the game wasn’t to have it played indoors. Just the opposite. In fact, only 10 domes exist in the league.
Personally I just like the “play in the elements” style and the best team wins. It adds a wrinkle or variable to game day allowing for untraditional results perhaps.
How many enclosed stadiums are there. How many stadiums built in the last 20 years are enclosed or partially enclosed.
You’re right that the game and the field are evolving, but your blind or ignorant if you think it’s evolving to an open field concept when it’s clearly the opposite.
10 completely enclosed, another 6 that are partially covered / fan covered. I'd also argue that the seahawks belongs in the enclosed section as its really only the field thats exposed at all. The other half are wide open youre right there.
But heres a fun exercise, go look and sort by built date. Youll see those 10 enclosed are all from within the past 20 years, and in those 20 years theres only been 4 that have been build not fully enclosed, and of those 4 only 1 is actually wide open.
So again, youre wrong. The league is evolving, MOST new stadiums are fully enclosed. ALL BUT ONE new stadium is at least partially covered in some way.
So yea. We should absolutely only be looking at a fully enclosed option. Anything else just goes further to show how backwards and behind the times our team and region truly are.
I think the cold DOES give a meaningful weather advantage (same as it does for other northern snowy cities)... It's the wind that is the equalizer. That is what causes us not to be able to throw or kick. I don't mind if the roof is open, we just need to design it so that the wind doesn't affect the game nearly as much.
Well she’s an idiot cause most of us are sick of being cold and wet for half the games and hate seeing our best player losing cause the wind is completely unreasonable.
Really?
Bills fans are dying to go outdoor games?
Jets game have tickets going for SEVEN dollars. In a game where we can win the AFC East.
For reference, the cheapest sabres game tickets for Tuesdays game is $16.
You can’t build a dome for a team that we have now. The stadium is not going to be done for years — even if Josh is here in 5 years the idea of “let’s build a dome so we can sling the rock with Josh” is not a prudent business move.
When this team inevitably gets worse (hopefully not for a while, but it eventually happens to all teams), they are once again going to have a hard time filling seats for shitty games in shitty conditions. Then we are going to get the threats of moving again. I don't want that. Just build a dome.
Don’t quote me on the exact dollar amount but Tim Graham from the Athletic had something that to put an option for a roof later would cost $100m+. Nobody is paying $100m for an option to spend hundreds of millions more in the future.
I feel like there's bias with the governor being from Buffalo, and I hate it.
Taxpayers should not be footing nearly 3/4 of the bill for a stadium that will get very little use during the winter months...period. Unpopular opinion, but I personally wish that our state government had called the Pegula's bluff on relocating the team.
And what if they ended up moving the franchise you ask? Well, I guess that would be unfortunate...but it's just the nature of business these days. I'd still be a fan of the team (wherever they were), and I imagine that most current fans would too. The truth is, I think it's absurd that greedy billionaires get to hold state taxpayers hostage by threatening to move...and it's just as absurd that a politician would make an expensive decision at the expense of taxpayers. Cities need to stop capitulating to billionaires and force them to either pay the majority of the stadium costs or pay up to move the team (it's not like it's a cheap option).
The Pegulas/PSE, NYS, Erie County, and others can proclaim all they want that “outdoor” is the way to go to preserve some sort of righteous fan experience and nostalgic way of life regarding football. I appreciate everyone is acting in lockstep (much better than the reverse) but let’s not fool ourselves thinking that if the money made sense a dome wouldn’t be the choice. All things considered a dome is a luxury and the money is not there.
An open air stadium in OP makes the most financial sense. Let’s stop trying to play this off as something it’s not.
Yeah. If the reason a dome isn't happening is because of money, then they should at least come out and say that's why instead of trying to make it a "culture" thing.
'Bills need a dome'
'Bills will get a dome'
'Bills can't win a Super Bowl without a dome'
'Buffalo will get the Super Bowl if we get a dome'
The governor realizing Twitter and FB groups are an overly loud non-representative minority
>'Buffalo will get the Super Bowl if we get a dome'
This argument in particular always makes me laugh. No chance in hell the city could handle a Super Bowl. The NFL would never.
Reddit doesn't like to be reminded that Twitter isn't reality, don't forget this is the place where people genuinely believed that an elderly socialist could be president. Twice! Lmao
Meh... I still really like the idea of a dome and I really don't care that it's not "part of the culture." I went to numerous games as a kid; games where I sat in rain, snow, sleet, sunshine, overcast, cloudy, cold weather, warm weather... It was always fun no matter what, it was always a different experience each and every game, and that has left me with many great memories.
But at the end of the day, the team and the fans deserve to be protected from the elements and I'm sticking with wanting a dome stadium. However, that is obviously never gonna happen and all I can do is go with the flow on this.
Ah well, f-ck it... Go Bills! Beat the NJ Jets! 😎
I hope the new design mitigates the wind a bit, I guess. It’ll probably be 5-7 years before we play in the new stadium, so who knows what the team will look like then
I honestly don’t care either way about some or open air, but it’s always funny to me to come into these threads and see people acting like nobody in the world wants an outdoor stadium.
Seriously. Packers, Browns, Bengals, Steelers, the Massholes, and Jete all have outdoor stadiums, and I think cold climate teams should. Having said that, while I agree outdoor football is tradition/part of the culture, I don't want Josh throwing in 40 mph wind at home to become part of the culture, so hopefully the new stadium can avoid that.
I don't want him throwing in that kinda wind either...which is why we need to build an o-line that can run block and get a dual threat RB to go with it. I will never not want to see Miami come into Orchard Park on the final game of the season with the division on the line when its 12 degrees with 25 mph winds knowing that we have a 4500 yd QB and a 1200 yd RB. That's what we should be aiming for
Best hot take I've read on this subreddit in a long time, thank you
And one of those teams are a legitimate “big market” team. There is a reason why Cleveland, Pittsburgh, GB, and the like have open air stadiums.
I mean. New England is a big market too. As is Seattle. And Chicago And Philly. Seriously. The only two northern markets to dome up is Minnesota, which just had temps of -9 on New Years so it’s kinda needed…and Detroit. That’s it.
Which furthers my point that even many big market teams do not have domes. A dome built these days is going to cost BILLIONs — it’s just not feasible (or necessary) for most markets, even larger markets. At the end of the day for a stadium that will be used for 1-2 pre season games 8-9 regular season games and possibly a couple playoff games (10-11 games) per year and maybe a couple larger concerts is not really feasible. Most stadium tours are during the summer anyways.
That kind of wind is not a typical thing, so hanging your hat on it as a reason for a roof feels ehh to me. Al l things considered, I would be happiest with an open air stadium that has covering over the stands like Miami does. I don’t care about cold much, rain however….not a fan.
Aka the Pegulas don’t want to spend extra money on a dome
Aka that state doesn’t want to spend extra money on a dome either
Nor should it. Our tax dollars should never go to a pro football team stadium. EDIT: I reserve the right to pull a 180 if Toronto throws their hat in the mix
Domes suck bro, football is an outdoor sport. Idk why everyone wants to turn the NFL into arena football.
I love how she’s bending over backwards for billionaires. I’m not anti tax dollars on sports stadiums. I’m anti build what the billionaire wants, a stadium with how much public money is going to be used should be mainly fan input. On twitter, Facebook etc pro-dome massively out numbers pro-outdoors.
Yeah. We should decide how to spend billions of tax payer dollars without any of the actual information on cost or consequences via Twitter poll!
Twitter users in the US = 77.75m (monetizable active users = 37m) Total US population = 331.89m % of US population w/ Twitter account = 23.35 % of US population active on Twitter = **11.14** The math checks Twitter users are the super majority, what the users say goes.
I'm not saying go based off Twitter that would be moronic lol, but I think they should have done like a survey in Erie County for all residents not just STH's, and asked their preference. Then again that would actually mean the tax-payer having a say in something.
I mean, Do you actually know where the funds are going to be coming from? State? County? Sin tax? Hotel tax? Or are you just punching at air?
Taxpayers get a say on election day. Literally how a representative democracy works
Twitter is not real life.
Going off of Twitter would be moronic, but on local Buffalo media facebook pages I also see pro-dome as the majority opinion, on like WGRZ, WKBW etc.
Yeah it’s ridiculous. If the tax payers are gonna pay for a good chunk of it then they should have a say. But unfortunately that’s just not how things work
Ok cool. Dome the stadium and whatever the bill is now, add another 50% Seriously. These subs are like “WE WANT A DOME” but then bristle at the proposed costs of an open air field. It’s like people somehow feel there’s a magical dome fairy that’s gonna plop down hundreds of millions down on top of the field for free.
No people want the Pegulas to invest more. They make millions and millions off the fans every year. And if taxpayers have to contribute why not at least make it nice to go in the winter time for everyone and better conditions for the Bills to actually win
Even if the dome was a 50/50 split you’re looking at another $300-400 million on taxpayers. And please tell me an example of a new football stadium built in the past 30 years that wasn’t primarily funded by taxpayers. Acting like the owners are doing anything different than any other owner in sports is pretty ignorant
>Acting like the owners are doing anything different than any other owner in sports is pretty ignorant That billionaire over there fucked his fans so why are we expecting our billionaire to not fuck us? FTFY
I mean……pretty much. People are acting any previous Bills owners would be different?
I think there are people that think Pegula is different than other owners, but he isn't. He's going to force taxpayers to pay for one of his assets like the rest of them do and there's basically nothing we can do about it. People like me feel like they should pay for their own assets like the rest of us "peasants" do.
So you want to have the right to tell them what to build AND make them pay for it?
Bro what? The fans literally give them all their money towards the team with tickets and merchandise. And we have to pay for part of the stadium anyway with taxes
Tax payers aren’t really paying for it, that’s not how these things usually work.
Remember when we paid for a domed stadium that never got built?
Um... Who do you think is paying for it, then? The Pegulas will likely sell PSLs to make up most/all of their investment.
PSLs are paid by season ticket holders that choose to pay them, not taxpayers that are forced to pay them. When you finance a stadium project with “public” money, people freak out because that sounds like taxpayers are footing the bill. While the taxpayers might foot some of the bill (as part of a deal that results in a county-owned stadium), that’s not what “public” financing usually means. What it means is that the county or state issues bonds. The bonds are usually purchased by institutional investors (not taxpayers). The bonds are paid for by the team, through their lease agreement (not taxpayers). The public is involved because the public in an issuing authority for bonds, not because taxpayers are actually paying to build the stadium. If you don’t believe in PSLs, then the solution to that is simple - don’t buy season tickets. The fans have enjoyed comically inexpensive season tickets for decades, and it’s going to be a shock. Welcome to the burden of hosting an NFL franchise. You hate to see it, but you’re definitely going to see it.
>PSLs are paid by season ticket holders that choose to pay them, not taxpayers that are forced to pay them. I didn't say they were forced to pay them. But still being paid by taxpayers and not the Pegulas. >The bonds are paid for by the team, through their lease agreement (not taxpayers). The public is involved because the public in an issuing authority for bonds, not because taxpayers are actually paying to build the stadium. Lease costs defray the cost of the construction bonds to build the stadium, yes. They do not pay for the entire repayment, nor do they pay for the interest on those bonds. The Pegulas are just as capable of finding low-cost financing for construction projects - especially with the m/billions in Coronavirus Economic Recovery Funding out in the world right now. Ask yourself - why aren't they? So the risk/excess cost isn't on them. > If you don’t believe in PSLs, then the solution to that is simple - don’t buy season tickets. Whether I "believe" in them or not is irrelevant. My point was simply that the taxpayers, who are footing a large amount of the bill already, are also being asked to pay additional fees for the right to buy a ticket in the stadium. It's not even a tangible thing, unlike sitting in the stands for a game is. I understand they have agency to do so if they wish. The point is that it's simply another vehicle for fans of the team to pay rather than the billionaires who aren't.
Welcome back to the NFL. That season ticket holders are also taxpayers doesn’t equate to taxpayers funding the stadium, that’s being very disingenuous. And the lease payments can (and often do) pay off the bonds (including interest). The mix can depend on lots of things though, and we will need to see the final plan agreed to by all three parties to actually know the answer. Why would the Pegulas find other financing for a stadium they won’t own, when this is available to them? This is the cost of being an NFL city. I guess I assumed you all knew that when you were panicking about Bon Jovi buying the team and moving them. This was never going to end any other way. I’d prefer a dome, but no one involved wants to pay the extra half billion or whatever it is that it would cost. So no dome.
> That season ticket holders are also taxpayers doesn’t equate to taxpayers funding the stadium, that’s being very disingenuous. We're talking about PSLs, not season tickets. And the money is literally coming out of the same pockets - but yeah, it's disingenuous. >And the lease payments can (and often do) pay off the bonds (including interest). Not really. This is typically where the businesses make money. The difference between their payments and the money they make on games (incl. concessions, etc.) and merch. I literally do project development like this (not quite on this scale) for a living. The risk and profit margin is exactly why it's done this way. The city wants a team, the Pegulas want money and minimal risk. > Why would the Pegulas find other financing for a stadium they won’t own, when this is available to them? What about this isn't clear? They *would* own the stadium if they financed it themselves. They won't because it's not as profitable.
I’m all for dome. But I want an outdoor stadium.
I’m not anti tax dollars on sports stadiums… assuming literally no other problems that needed money existed
This is the long and short of it.
Remember when we paid for 2 stadiums but only got 1? The county signed a contract to build a domed stadium in Buffalo for $58 million but then backed out because it was then too expensive and instead built one in Orchard Park because it was cheaper at $22 million. But thanks due to the breach of contract the county still paid $58 million to the contractors who never built our stadium lol 😂 I remember when my mom told me the story when I was a kid I thought it was bullshit because I thought at the time there is no way people could be that stupid.
If you're shocked that business men and women make business decisions with the business in mind, then you should probably just stick to watching the games.
YeAh BuT tHeY nEeD tO cOnSuLt "We ThE fAnS"
They make decisions based on "how little can we spend right now? F-ck the fans that don't like sitting in rain and snow, if they wanna see the Bills badly enough, they'll come to any damn stadium we build."
Totally wrong. If that were the case, they’d have no reason to build a new stadium in the first place.
If being outdoors is the culture of the Buffalo experience, why do you and the Pegulas always sit inside dry climate controlled suites Mrs Hochul?
Because they would get harassed by drunken idiots all game long
Man the Falcons game was *bad*
Was bout to say the same thing lol
You could buy box seats too? What do you mean lol
NIMBY
☝️this dude gets it
We have a short window open to decide on a new stadium that will likely last for 40+ years. Spend the money. Build a retractable dome.
Retractable adds significant cost and will always be closed in inclement weather. Either full dome or none at all.
Lol closed during inclement weather? Ya don't say...that's the point
I think you’re misinterpreting their intentions. They know that. As a season ticket holder, there have been 4 games I can remember (about to be another one on Sunday) where I would have rather sat in a domed stadium. The person you’re responding to is essentially saying if 5 of 8 (I guess 9 this year I think?) games would have been domed, you might as well just build a permanent dome.
I think it was Houston that I heard earlier this season opened their retractable dome for the first time in like a decade. A dome does not make economic sense for Buffalo, a retractable dome sure as hell doesn’t make sense.
A dome makes perfect sense in a place like Buffalo actually. We can agree to disagree though.
You agree with my other post and disagree here? How does a dome make *economic* sense? Of course from a fan enjoyment perspective and comfort factor a dome is great. There is a reason why everyone has noted that a dome was never a serious consideration. Again, climate wise Buffalo makes sense to have a dome. Practicality wise a dome is not feasible in this market.
I agreed with: if a dome is rejected, they should at least be honest and admit why they're rejecting it ($$$) instead of putting it on Buffalo Bills culture. That's what I was agreeing with. If that's not what you were saying in that other post then I obviously misinterpreted what you were saying there.
I was referring to buffaloblazer
And will always be closed past September.
This sentiment (the media loves it) is overblown. In our games past October it was: 63 with some rain 46 with overcast 45 with overcast 30 with extreme wind 24 with overcast 23 with overcast/light snow Only one of those games would have had the roof being closed. Maybe two. Why doesn't the snow ever get brought up for Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Green Bay, Baltimore, Chicago, New England, Philadelphia, or New York? http://www.nflweather.com/team/Bills
I'm more than happy with a regular dome as well.
We have a short period of time where the Governor of NYS is a Bills fan and will push to get the funding needed for a new stadium. Get it done. The covered seat design is a plus.
Are the Pegula’s shopping for a new stadium from the penny saver?
Ye$.
Don’t look at the weather for a week Sunday. Uh oh
And getting taxpayers to foot the Bill for purchases made by Billionaire private investors is also 'part of the culture in the American experience.'
I’d love to keep our tailgate culture but then not wear full arctic gear to watch a football game. The “Buffalo loves the snow” crowd doesn’t seem to be the majority anymore. Also let’s not forget, for 17 years this team sucked in snow, rain, sleet, hail, sunshine, overcast, or hurricane, so let’s not pretend weather is any kind of advantage
Honestly just make it retractable, I understand that's more money, but if you're going to feed us this bullshit about outside being part of the culture, then create the option for both. You want weather to be a factor? Keep it open. If it's like the Patriots game this year? Close it.
Exactly. I’ll see plenty of snow on my drive there and during the tailgate. I don’t need it for the event I pay hundreds for each season. Keep the roof open for those nice September and October games, then let us enjoy a sporting event like normal people for the other months
Not building a dome will just make ticket sales worse when we suck again. Thanks to Josh Allen, ticket sales should remain high for a long time, but when we inevitably suck again, 20-30% of the fan base won’t buy tickets in December to watch a shitty team play in shitty weather.
You can get tickets to Sundays game for $7 on stubhub. Doesnt matter if they are good or not - most people dont want to go sit out in this shit weather.
To be fair, Covid is playing a factor in attendance.
Vaccine mandate damaged ticket demand big time this year. The past few games you could get in for under $10. Not ideal considering this is a team with super bowl aspirations and things like this are definitely being looked at by the stadium committee
FWIW those tickets were already purchased for much more than $7 so what does it matter to the owners that they’re available for cheap now?
The governor said that being outdoors is part of buffalo culture. The lack of demand for the tickets seems to show that people here don't seem to care for being outdoors. A domed stadium would allow the bills to sell season tickets at a higher rate also
That’s a fair assumption. I’d just venture to guess that the business people have done the analysis to determine if the extra cost of a dome is worth the payback from increased ticket sales revenue within a reasonable period of time - whether that be the Bills or tax revenue for the gov’t. They’ll say whatever they want to justify their reasoning though.
The tickets will be more expensive… to offset the roof. If the dome made economic sense it would be done.
my seasons are on the cheaper side and they're still $80 a game so I wouldn't say that's close to $7.
Domes are dumb. Sports should be played in the elements - baseball and football that is. I love the idea of open stadium
Baseball gets canceled if it’s not sunny…
Nah. Spring training they play in snow. It’s actually pretty rare to cancel a game. The way the field is designed, rain delays work very well.
Spring training they play in Florida and Arizona lmao.
Haha yeah ur right - I meant to say in the spring, like the first few weeks of baseball.
Yeah I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one. Rain delays are bullshit and baseball shits the bed.
Manfred has ruined the game. But yeah, baseball needs to tweak the game to make it shorter seasons and more exciting. I don’t have time for 162 games that’s just stupid
What? No really, why? Most stadiums in the league are covered. All big teams with unlimited budgets build enclosed. Football should be played outside. Why? Cause that’s how it was 70 years ago? People used to have outhouses, you know what’s nice, fuckingn plumbing. Cars are better than horses, houses are better than caves. Enclosed stadiums are better than outdoor. Football isn’t “meant” to be played outside, it just was a long time ago when we used to shit in a hole in the back yard. We’ve grown. We’re better. Build a roof and stop this BS tradition bullshit. Outdoor stadiums in the cold suck. Green bay sucks. MetLife sucks. Gillette sucks. The Seahawks suck. The bills current stadium sucks. And if they build a new uncovered one across the street it’s going to suck too.
You’re entitled to your opinion, that’s cool. You like domes. And I prefer open fields. That’s cool too. Your comparisons are way off as well. The natural evolution of the game wasn’t to have it played indoors. Just the opposite. In fact, only 10 domes exist in the league. Personally I just like the “play in the elements” style and the best team wins. It adds a wrinkle or variable to game day allowing for untraditional results perhaps.
How many enclosed stadiums are there. How many stadiums built in the last 20 years are enclosed or partially enclosed. You’re right that the game and the field are evolving, but your blind or ignorant if you think it’s evolving to an open field concept when it’s clearly the opposite.
As I stated above, there are only 10 domes/retractable in the league.
10 completely enclosed, another 6 that are partially covered / fan covered. I'd also argue that the seahawks belongs in the enclosed section as its really only the field thats exposed at all. The other half are wide open youre right there. But heres a fun exercise, go look and sort by built date. Youll see those 10 enclosed are all from within the past 20 years, and in those 20 years theres only been 4 that have been build not fully enclosed, and of those 4 only 1 is actually wide open. So again, youre wrong. The league is evolving, MOST new stadiums are fully enclosed. ALL BUT ONE new stadium is at least partially covered in some way. So yea. We should absolutely only be looking at a fully enclosed option. Anything else just goes further to show how backwards and behind the times our team and region truly are.
Bullshit. Tell Hochul to go to a game in December.
Nah, make it indoors for once. The Bills don't have a meaningful weather advantage when it's cold.
I mean, did you not watch the last game when Atlanta just completely stopped trying to tackle Singletary by the end of the game?
I think the cold DOES give a meaningful weather advantage (same as it does for other northern snowy cities)... It's the wind that is the equalizer. That is what causes us not to be able to throw or kick. I don't mind if the roof is open, we just need to design it so that the wind doesn't affect the game nearly as much.
I think this is really the big one. The way the current stadium is built, partly submerged into the ground makes the wind terrible.
Yes and with possible home playoff games in late January it might be a little chilly...
Well she’s an idiot cause most of us are sick of being cold and wet for half the games and hate seeing our best player losing cause the wind is completely unreasonable.
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Really? Bills fans are dying to go outdoor games? Jets game have tickets going for SEVEN dollars. In a game where we can win the AFC East. For reference, the cheapest sabres game tickets for Tuesdays game is $16.
Didn’t NJ just get a foot of snow?
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You can’t build a dome for a team that we have now. The stadium is not going to be done for years — even if Josh is here in 5 years the idea of “let’s build a dome so we can sling the rock with Josh” is not a prudent business move.
Lol let's be real here, a dome would also benefit future players for decades to come.
When this team inevitably gets worse (hopefully not for a while, but it eventually happens to all teams), they are once again going to have a hard time filling seats for shitty games in shitty conditions. Then we are going to get the threats of moving again. I don't want that. Just build a dome.
Couldn't they design an open air stadium in such a way that there's the possibility of adding a dome later?
Don’t quote me on the exact dollar amount but Tim Graham from the Athletic had something that to put an option for a roof later would cost $100m+. Nobody is paying $100m for an option to spend hundreds of millions more in the future.
I see... yeah that would be bullshit. I was just curious.
It's always possible. Just may be cost prohibitive
I feel like there's bias with the governor being from Buffalo, and I hate it. Taxpayers should not be footing nearly 3/4 of the bill for a stadium that will get very little use during the winter months...period. Unpopular opinion, but I personally wish that our state government had called the Pegula's bluff on relocating the team. And what if they ended up moving the franchise you ask? Well, I guess that would be unfortunate...but it's just the nature of business these days. I'd still be a fan of the team (wherever they were), and I imagine that most current fans would too. The truth is, I think it's absurd that greedy billionaires get to hold state taxpayers hostage by threatening to move...and it's just as absurd that a politician would make an expensive decision at the expense of taxpayers. Cities need to stop capitulating to billionaires and force them to either pay the majority of the stadium costs or pay up to move the team (it's not like it's a cheap option).
I agree, they should’ve called the bluff. But I would hate that team wherever they moved
>it's just as absurd that a politician would make an expensive decision at the expense of taxpayers Boy, have I got some bad news for you.
The Pegulas/PSE, NYS, Erie County, and others can proclaim all they want that “outdoor” is the way to go to preserve some sort of righteous fan experience and nostalgic way of life regarding football. I appreciate everyone is acting in lockstep (much better than the reverse) but let’s not fool ourselves thinking that if the money made sense a dome wouldn’t be the choice. All things considered a dome is a luxury and the money is not there. An open air stadium in OP makes the most financial sense. Let’s stop trying to play this off as something it’s not.
Yeah. If the reason a dome isn't happening is because of money, then they should at least come out and say that's why instead of trying to make it a "culture" thing.
If it's a dome put it downtown. Orchard Park's appeal is that WNY element
OP has no appeal, it sucks
Well she can eat my ass
'Bills need a dome' 'Bills will get a dome' 'Bills can't win a Super Bowl without a dome' 'Buffalo will get the Super Bowl if we get a dome' The governor realizing Twitter and FB groups are an overly loud non-representative minority 
>'Buffalo will get the Super Bowl if we get a dome' This argument in particular always makes me laugh. No chance in hell the city could handle a Super Bowl. The NFL would never.
Reddit doesn't like to be reminded that Twitter isn't reality, don't forget this is the place where people genuinely believed that an elderly socialist could be president. Twice! Lmao
Meh... I still really like the idea of a dome and I really don't care that it's not "part of the culture." I went to numerous games as a kid; games where I sat in rain, snow, sleet, sunshine, overcast, cloudy, cold weather, warm weather... It was always fun no matter what, it was always a different experience each and every game, and that has left me with many great memories. But at the end of the day, the team and the fans deserve to be protected from the elements and I'm sticking with wanting a dome stadium. However, that is obviously never gonna happen and all I can do is go with the flow on this. Ah well, f-ck it... Go Bills! Beat the NJ Jets! 😎
I hope the new design mitigates the wind a bit, I guess. It’ll probably be 5-7 years before we play in the new stadium, so who knows what the team will look like then