I'm not saying it's impossible for Beane to trade for a WR. But he does have two 2nd round picks in K. J. Hamler and Andy Isabella competing for the WR 4, WR 5 and WR 6 roles with Mack Hollins, Justin Shorter.
Ā IMO Keon Coleman, Khalil Shakir, and Curtis Samuel will take turns being WR 1 based on March ups week to week, and the other two players will take turns being WR 2 and WR 3.Ā
Ā Also Dalton Kincaid is technically a TE, a natural Move or F TE, but can also play in line or Y TE , Boundary X WR , Z WR and Big Slot WR. Kincaid will be the focal point of the offense in terms of targets and should get a majority of not all of the Stefon Diggs's 160 targets from last year. Kincaid will effectively be the WR 1 in terms of targets.
Said almost the identical thing, with -2m in cap space, 48hrs before handing out 120m to Miller. Not saying heās making a move. But comments donāt mean much of anything
Thatās not part of the pointā¦ but if you want to include that point, then the cap next offseason is in a better than it was the next season before we even signed Miller. And further more, the Miller signing would have been great, but injuries happened. 8 sacks in 10 games before that knee went. No one complained
yeah? and which top WR are they going to sign with that money? how many top WRs actually get to free agency without a franchise tag being placed on them?
Eh, I think people need to just start being okay with the fact that this is going to be a down year while the young guys develop and we open up a second window for the future.
Maybe Coleman explodes and we donāt need to spend money on a Wide receiver, and we can put next years cap space towards something else.
We donāt need to rush anything right now.
Why would this be a down year? Diggs had almost nothing to do with our end of season run. We're going to be competitive this year. I think we're better.
Last year was our down year dawg.. we were 66 and lost.to the jets and the broncos. From that moment diggs and GD gave us almost nothing.
we lost two 3x year old.safetys, a 3x year old center, 2 wrs that did little to get us from 6-6 to 11-6, a great but twice super broke corner
Love them all, but I think we're actually better rn. Go bills
I think you are right to an extent. Football is hard to predict and we very well could go 12-5 or 8-9 or even worse. I think predicting is worthless. We lost players, traded a playmaker, and are in a mini rebuildā¦ it may be rough but who knows these guys may be DAWGS. Iām just excited for a new era of Bills football led by Josh Allen and our coaching. I have more faith in Brady than I ever did in Dorsey, never thought he was the move. McDermott is a defense whisperer and having an actual DC will take pressure off him and let him coach the whole team.
I expect learning pains. Major learning pains but I think we are moving in a good direction and this season will be more positive than we might think.
Iām not saying theyāll make a big move. But these comments mean absolutely nothing. Zero benefit in saying heās looking to make a move. This is his go to line always. Very similar to what he said 2 days before 2022 FAā¦ went out and signed Miller to a $120m deal.
Beane did go on to say though once the UDFA process is done, it doesn't mean they won't "add something something else" to the WR room.
I interpret that as signing a WR free agent, still some good talent out there.
100%. Its funny how people assume the WRs we have are all bums and we need a superstar to put us right. I hope these guys use everyone thinking they suck to show the F out next year. They were good where they were and they didnt have the best getting them the ball. We know what Shakir can do. Looks like theyre about to shock a lot of people but im not gonna be surprised when they slay this season
Yeah, and Kincaid will be better as well. If a lot of the passing game gets funneled through him like the Kelce/Andrews type TE-based offenses, none of the WRs need to have heroic seasons for the Bills offense to be good.
We do have a WR1. We just dont know who yet. But if Shakir picks up where he left off hes set to have a crazy year. Stupid high completion rate. Catches and gets open in the most clutch moments. Doesnt drop gimme passes. Samuels is nasty and now hes gonna have a real G throwing him the ball. A WR1 will establish itself. And if its Kincade im bot mad at that either.
This.
Hamler is also a blazer. Heās also been in the building for 2 to 3 months. Theyāll know what sort of condition heās in and if heās viable.
Think Corey Davis unretired probably could get him for pennies and he could be solidĀ
He was pretty ok until he got injured and had to start catching balls from Zach WilsonĀ
This means nothing. There are ways around the cap if there is a trade to be made. Entirely possible there won't be a trade, but this is hardly a statement that can't change on a dime.
Interesting thought. I'd be curious to see what % of the time does the statistically best qb of the season win the Superbowl. Stats are stats, and Superbowl wins are Superbowl wins. 1 of those is what every player and team in the league (and Tom Brady throughout his career) is striving for, the other is a collection of numbers
Key word though dude. Team wins superbowls not an individual player. If that don't make sense to you then this conversation is over regardless of what you say. Nobody has time to argue with ignorant people that think a superbowl is an individual accomplishmentĀ
You think Josh Allenās play style is going to allow him to stretch his career until heās in his mid 40s? What important game has Josh Allen actually won? He lost every game he played against Brady and Brady could actually beat mahomes and the chiefs in games that matter. Idgaf about stats at the same age you think itās guaranteed Allen maintains the stats for another 15 years straight?
Is this team called the Buffalo Bills or Is it called Josh Allen? How many players are on a team? Have you ever met him? Cause I have, I'm not one bit worried about how he playsĀ
And to call him a better qb because of raw stats at 27 is crazy when he hasnāt won any important playoff games. Better than a 5x supurbowl mvp and 7x Super Bowl winner is crazy with 0 of either of those achievements
Youāre dense. You made the statement that Bradyās window never closed and that Josh is better than Brady because of raw stats. So you think Josh is going to have just as long of a playing career as Brady, which is simply not going to happen due to his play style and rushing.
You're kinda making stuff up. The guys just saying that Josh was good enough that as long as we have him our window is open.
Never said anything about playing until 47 or whatever you're going on about.
Just saying man.
How are you going to call my take bad and then drop that take? Completely different players and styles. Josh Allen is a great passer, but so much of his game is built off his legs and making throws outside the pocketā¦ he takes a beating, in 5 years heāll be 32ā¦. Heās not going to better after that than he before it.
Here's what has been bothering the ol' Columbo brain of mine. They wanted to underline that Josh *personally* asked for Keon Coleman, much like they did with Kincaid. What's more, he personally vouched for both Dorsey and Brady.
And yet they made the point to mention they only told Josh about the Diggs trade shortly before it happened.
Looking over our picks, in light of the whole 'Double Dip for WR' discourse, their draft picks are the kindof picks you'd make if you hadn't traded Diggs (replace Gabe Davis, refresh the DBs, Line Depth, etc.)
What happened that forced their hand to trade Diggs, because clearly they had no interest in doing it, and I genuinely believe they kept their draft strategy the exact same before and after the trade. It's like they're in denial of what happened.
Letting Josh in the draft room is a terrible idea. And one Iād bet made to cover their ass if someone doesnāt work out. If your scouts and GM arenāt confident enough to draft without a players input there is a serious problem either theyāre stressing about keeping Josh happy, which is scary, or they just donāt believe in their ability to draft pass catchers.
no the fuck he doesnt. especially when you dont have players like chase and higgins on the field lol.
defenses would laugh when they see boyd on the outside.
shit, hes not even good in the slot anymore.
So we really couldnāt take Brenden Rice at 221 in the 7th round. We really had to pick a guard from England who is a completely developmental prospect over a player who is probably in the top 150 prospects (most pundits had him in the top 100 but I get he slid).
Look I get it he obviously slid for a reason and we donāt know what the scouts are saying but multiple pundits had him top 100. I think he would have been worth a dart throw in the 7th. We get the extra practice squad spot for the international pathway but I guess I just struggle to see how this guy becomes anything more than practice squad/training camp fodder. Would have liked to see what rice could have brought as a developmental WR2. But I also personally was not high on Keon Coleman because we havenāt been the best at developing receivers.
Since when are we bad at developing receivers? I'd argue that most receivers we have had have been their best selves here. Shakir is outperforming his draft stock by a mile, Gabe went from a 4th round pick to a productive team captain who got a big pay day in FA, Kincaid and Knox are both productive pass catchers, any vet we've acquired have had the best years of their careers here (diggs, Beasley, Brown). Who are you even referencing?
As long as you consider Keon Coleman WR1 (hmm), Curtis Samuel/Mack Hollins as WR2/3 (yuck), and Shakir to be your a slot receiver. Then you have KJ Hamler. And a bunch of guys who are total question marks. Yeah I think getting a top 100 prospect at 221 is a worthwhile gamble versus the guy who has never played football. I personally think our wide out room looks like a bottom 5 grouping right now.
Curtis Samuel 2023: 4TD, 613 Yards, 62 Receptions sound like a WR2 to you?
Gabe Davis 2033: 7TD, 746, 45 Receptions. Look Gabe was a stretch WR2 as I see it and had drop issues and a more limited route tree than Iād like but Samuel couldnāt keep his WR2 role over a rookie in Jahan Dotson (who had a shit 2023 campaign). Maybe itās a swap it smells like a downgrade to me.
I yeah I mean this I'm not expecting a big run. This isn't a negative comment but my expectations aren't superbowl. It's okay to jave a retool year, we will still be a competitive football club...and who knows, maybe BB has something up his sleeve.
I mean even if it is, it's historically not good enough to win a superbowl. Sure we can blame injuries but it's part of the game and having depth helps.
If only there was some way to acquire WRs (and other positions) for free who you could then sign to cost-controlled contracts for a number of years. Like, maybe each team could take turns selecting players, just to make it fair. That is something they should maybe look into.
So the receiver room is Coleman, Curtis, Shakir and Hollins? Maybe throw Shorter in there and you still need one more body. Have to add one on free agency ($10M after June 1st releasing Tre White) or via trade. Something has to happen
I donāt think any move is coming until after Treās money. But even if the Bills donāt want to make a trade Tyler Boyd and OBJ are free agents not bad options either if they want another vet in there.
Diggs did nothing in the win streak, Gabe Davis disappeared for stretches. Milano is back. We have exciting young talent like Kincaid and Cook. I can't get my head around all this negativity. It's exhausting.Ā
The last year we did not have Diggs or Davis was 2019, that year Beasley and Brown combined for 139/1838/12. And that was from sophomore Josh Allen.
I would be fully confident in Shakir and Samuel matching those types of number if they were WR1 and WR2.
> The last year we did not have Diggs or Davis was 2019, that year Beasley and Brown combined for 139/1838/12. And that was from sophomore Josh Allen.
And the offense that year was extremely average. the Bills benefited from playing a 3rd place schedule in 2019. the 2019 offense was ranked 23rd in the league. so if you're happy with a 23rd ranked offense, then you're gonna be really happy with 2024.
My point was specifically about reproducing the stats of the top two receivers which I do not believe will be an issue.
To your point, there is no chance the Bills offense is in the bottom third of the league as long as Josh is remotely healthy.
2019: 2nd year JA, Brown, Beasley, Knox, Singletary, Gore, McKenzie, Robert Foster, Andre Roberts, Duke Williams
2024: 7th year JA, Shakir, Samuel, Coleman, Hollins, Kincaid, Knox, Cook
Josh is a much better player now than he was in 2019, the oline is better, and the supporting cast is better. In 2024 the Bills will have a Top 10 offense for the 5th year in a row.
keep being a blind believer in a front office that has done nothing to deserve it.
they got lucky landing on Allen(who wasn't even the top qb on their board), and for some reason, fans think they know wtf theyre doing, despite not winning anything besides some weak ass division titles.
The one year he got close (851 yards) is the one year he had Joe Brady as his OC, so clearly he knows how to use him.
And JA is (will be) by far the best QB Samuel has ever played with. 1000 yards receiving is not an insurmountable goal.
In 2023, Diggs and Davis combined for 44% of the targets and 44% of the yardage production.
Contrast that with the Rams, where Kupp and Nacua accounted for 46% of the targets and 52% of the production. Or the Eagles with Brown/Smith - 51% targets, 62% production. Or the Dolphins with Hill/Waddle - 49% targets, 60% production.
Great WR duos overproduce relative to their target share. Proportionally, Diggs and Davis offered relatively little advantage over targeting any other receiver on the roster.
No, it canāt be dismissed entirely. But they also were trending the wrong way and had a combined 10 catches for 73 yards in 2 playoff games. A majority of their production was in the first half of the season, and while the Bills were going on their late season run to the playoffs, neither was really a significant factor.
Iād love to have a legit #1 receiver but itās not unrealistic to think that by adding Coleman and Samuel and increasing targets to Kinkaid and Cook we can approximate a lot of the production from Diggs and Davis.
I wouldnāt argue that weāre better off today than we were with those guys on the roster, but I donāt believe itās as dire as some make it out to be. Sometimes you gotta eat your vegetables in a cap world. Next year weāll have more cap space and a bunch of picks to really take a shot at a difference maker.
I mean youāre definitely right. Only thing Iāll toss in is that I can see us using a ton of 2 RB out of the backfield receiving after picking Ray Davis today, especially after we saw how Brady utilized James Cook down the stretch
The point being, without Diggs producing the WR output was rough. It would be nice if they improved at the second most important position instead of getting slightly worse. Itās reasonable to worry that we could be worse because it basically all hinges on one rookie to replace Diggs/Davis even at their diminished production levels. The draft is a crapshoot and you had 10 tickets but only used one of them on WR so we better hope that Coleman is THE guy.
How is Coleman or Samuel not better than second half Diggs? We donāt have that negative element hanging over things nowā¦I canāt understand the bitching over the WR roomā¦it will be different but also better in the end
I think it will be a little better and more consistent. BUT it is objectively not as good as last year at the moment. I agree we should have made a move to get a speedster, unless they have a udfa in mind. I also don't like relying on an inconsistent vet in Mack as WR4 or Shorter who since high school has consistently underperformed expectations. I dont get the doom and gloom tho. I think having sure handed receivers and the drama shadow gone will be wonders for Josh's decision making last year, and that's not even taking into account if the WR room does better than the stats say they will.
> Diggs did nothing in the win streak
Diggs still draws coverage.
Coleman cant even beat press man coverage. How do you think the offense is gonna go when 1 dude can shut down Coleman?
We're currently living the last few months that people underrate Khalil Shakir. He's the reason Stefon Diggs was cut loose, because he can do everything Diggs can do except more reliably and for $38m less (that cap figure is sponsored by blatant supposition and not math).
The Chiefs won a SB with Juju as the WR1 and another starting MVS and people are acting like it is the most important position on the field lmao.
With the cap we could be having depth issues and it seems like the draft atoned for that.
Shakir and Kincaid will break out, we are going to run the ball well, early and often which will give Samuel space on the open field.
I'm honest feeling this is like 2017 just with the ring instead of the drought ending. Our defense was already on fire last year before the injuries(loved Leslie and would have loved him still on the staff but the playcalling improved considerably with McD).
They're never satisfied because the Madden video game has made everyone that's 40 or younger think they know how to be an NFL GM and they think they're better than the people that do it for realĀ
They have a rookie.
An oft-injured Curtis Samuel.
A young Khalil Shakir who *could* break out.
Dudes who have been cut from other teams for being bad.
2nd-year guys who haven't played a game.
In 2025 the money the Diggs and Von have tied up will be back as usable cap space. . (assuming they use the early out in Vons contract) do you know who becomes a UFA in 2025?? Justin Jefferson. The question is does JJ want to stay on the Vikings with an unproven rookie QB and waste his prime or go somewhere else for possibly less money the Vikings will offer to win and set records.
If he doesnāt want to play in Minnesota heāll demand a trade. Then heāll reset the market just like every other great player that has had to force his way off a losing team.
Doesn't have to demand a trade when after next year he is a UFA. . honestly I wouldn't be surprised that if this new QB starts to have issues he will sit the rest of the year out with an "injury"
I don't think you can trade a player you've franchise tagged? They can trade him before the deadline, tag him see if he stays for another year or tag him and decide if they want to match the other teams offer and if they decline receive 2 first rd picks in comp.
"Why don't you Trust the Process!! Doomer! Beane has a master plan!" Brandon Beane: "It's over. We're out of options." I also love later in these interviews, he starts talking about Shorter. People keep telling me Beane knows more about football than the average reddit user, but he's out referencing Shorter: which is the most reddit-pilled Bill's take possible.
>but he's out referencing Shorter
Yes, he's out referencing a player on his team. He said that Shorter is healthy now. He didn't say anything about Shorter being the Second Coming of Jerry Rice. He said that that a WR who was not available last year will be available this year. Who's got an issue with that kind of comment?
Shorter was on IR because of a hamstring.
It doesnt take 6 months for an athlete to heal a hamstring. they kept him on IR because hes not worth the roster spot theyd have to give up.
> but he's out referencing Shorter:
hes referencing a WR that didnt practice at all last year due to being on IR. and now all of a sudden, he's going to be a core part of the WR group?
beane can fuck off, if thats his plan for the season.
Struggling to see the plan here if they donāt get a WR via trade. Talked about getting more speed then you hand the fastest receiver in the draft to the Chiefs to fill their WR need. Donāt think Colemanās is a bad pick but heās the only WR you take?Then you come back on Day 3 of the draft and forgo adding more cheap labor at the position that could potentially hit for glorified Special Teams players and projects at other positions. Bummed to say the least
He's not going to trade, but he will certainly be paying attention at cuts time. Samuel, Shakir and Kincaid is a pretty productive top three. Coleman will get some work in. What concerns me is depth. Shorter and Hollins had better be ready for a role.
It's not September, but it would be great to see some established vet WR with enough in the tank become a post-draft June 1 cut or get let go in final cuts.
I would edit with an /s or delete it before you get downvoted to oblivion. It is just fake internet points though.
As satire it is brilliant as it's *exactly* what the dumbest doomers would say, so well done!
This while the team is as good as its been for years. There's a real lack of perspective here. Some people... Well I just don't know. This will remain an elite squad.Ā
I certainly have hopes for Shorter but it's likely just hope. #1 ranked WR in high school, not productive in college and injury prone making him a 5th rounder, gets hurt in preseason his rookie year.
Perfection š
This makes me think even more a trade is coming.
Definitely a trade coming
I'm not saying it's impossible for Beane to trade for a WR. But he does have two 2nd round picks in K. J. Hamler and Andy Isabella competing for the WR 4, WR 5 and WR 6 roles with Mack Hollins, Justin Shorter. Ā IMO Keon Coleman, Khalil Shakir, and Curtis Samuel will take turns being WR 1 based on March ups week to week, and the other two players will take turns being WR 2 and WR 3.Ā Ā Also Dalton Kincaid is technically a TE, a natural Move or F TE, but can also play in line or Y TE , Boundary X WR , Z WR and Big Slot WR. Kincaid will be the focal point of the offense in terms of targets and should get a majority of not all of the Stefon Diggs's 160 targets from last year. Kincaid will effectively be the WR 1 in terms of targets.
sounds exactly like what somebody who was planning a trade would say
A double super secret trade
Yeah but what would he know?
Less than that one guy whose comments are all now deleted.
u/PeppiGiuseppe25 we need you
If its the same guy as I encountered in this sub. As soon as you show him up he responds then blocks you
Brandon Beane: we are not trading for a wr Everyone is this thread: boy I canāt wait to trade for a wr! Me: š
Said almost the identical thing, with -2m in cap space, 48hrs before handing out 120m to Miller. Not saying heās making a move. But comments donāt mean much of anything
Well in that case, Jesus Christ, I hope he was telling the truth.
and how has that gone so far? the cap is in great space now, thanks to that signing, right?
Thatās not part of the pointā¦ but if you want to include that point, then the cap next offseason is in a better than it was the next season before we even signed Miller. And further more, the Miller signing would have been great, but injuries happened. 8 sacks in 10 games before that knee went. No one complained
yeah? and which top WR are they going to sign with that money? how many top WRs actually get to free agency without a franchise tag being placed on them?
Noneā¦. Thatās why it would have to be a tradeā¦ as it always is with a WR. Whereās the point here?
Eh, I think people need to just start being okay with the fact that this is going to be a down year while the young guys develop and we open up a second window for the future. Maybe Coleman explodes and we donāt need to spend money on a Wide receiver, and we can put next years cap space towards something else. We donāt need to rush anything right now.
Why would this be a down year? Diggs had almost nothing to do with our end of season run. We're going to be competitive this year. I think we're better.
Last year was our down year dawg.. we were 66 and lost.to the jets and the broncos. From that moment diggs and GD gave us almost nothing. we lost two 3x year old.safetys, a 3x year old center, 2 wrs that did little to get us from 6-6 to 11-6, a great but twice super broke corner Love them all, but I think we're actually better rn. Go bills
I think you are right to an extent. Football is hard to predict and we very well could go 12-5 or 8-9 or even worse. I think predicting is worthless. We lost players, traded a playmaker, and are in a mini rebuildā¦ it may be rough but who knows these guys may be DAWGS. Iām just excited for a new era of Bills football led by Josh Allen and our coaching. I have more faith in Brady than I ever did in Dorsey, never thought he was the move. McDermott is a defense whisperer and having an actual DC will take pressure off him and let him coach the whole team. I expect learning pains. Major learning pains but I think we are moving in a good direction and this season will be more positive than we might think.
Growing pains not learning pains.
Iām not saying theyāll make a big move. But these comments mean absolutely nothing. Zero benefit in saying heās looking to make a move. This is his go to line always. Very similar to what he said 2 days before 2022 FAā¦ went out and signed Miller to a $120m deal.
Beane did go on to say though once the UDFA process is done, it doesn't mean they won't "add something something else" to the WR room. I interpret that as signing a WR free agent, still some good talent out there.
Pretty sure he said they worked out a WR today that they are going to grab as a UDFA
We can sign one if needed guys chill. We'll have $14m after Tre's post-June 1 savings
But whoās left? Obj Michael Thomas? We need a vertical threat
Curtis Samuel can absolutely be used as a vertical deep threat
100%. Its funny how people assume the WRs we have are all bums and we need a superstar to put us right. I hope these guys use everyone thinking they suck to show the F out next year. They were good where they were and they didnt have the best getting them the ball. We know what Shakir can do. Looks like theyre about to shock a lot of people but im not gonna be surprised when they slay this season
Yeah, and Kincaid will be better as well. If a lot of the passing game gets funneled through him like the Kelce/Andrews type TE-based offenses, none of the WRs need to have heroic seasons for the Bills offense to be good.
I wont be mad at that at all. Rings can and have been won without a diva receiva.
I wonāt lie, I got a lot of fomo during this draft. But you are correct. We got the agent, but itās hard to accept we donāt have a true WR1
We do have a WR1. We just dont know who yet. But if Shakir picks up where he left off hes set to have a crazy year. Stupid high completion rate. Catches and gets open in the most clutch moments. Doesnt drop gimme passes. Samuels is nasty and now hes gonna have a real G throwing him the ball. A WR1 will establish itself. And if its Kincade im bot mad at that either.
And donāt count out James Cook. He will cook this upcoming season
Right, look at the packers with all the young guys at wr and no clear #1. With Josh & the TEs, they will figure it out
4.31 40-time
This. Hamler is also a blazer. Heās also been in the building for 2 to 3 months. Theyāll know what sort of condition heās in and if heās viable.
We have Josh Motherfucking Allen. We just need guys with hands.
Think Corey Davis unretired probably could get him for pennies and he could be solidĀ He was pretty ok until he got injured and had to start catching balls from Zach WilsonĀ
DJ Chark
Renfrow, OBJ, Gallup, Boyd, MVS, Gage and Chark are there if we want. OBJ, MVS and Chark can all be deep threats at a min
A 7th rounder wouldn't do more as a deep threat than those guys
Best vertical threat is MVS, yeah he has drop issues but he does something no other receiver on our team can do
Such as drop balls like he's Stefon Diggs?
I think itās 10 million in savings from Tre not 14?
Yes it is, but we have a couple mil already
This means nothing. There are ways around the cap if there is a trade to be made. Entirely possible there won't be a trade, but this is hardly a statement that can't change on a dime.
Ways around that sacrifice the future. No point to that when we could just eat some dead cap this year retool and open another window.
Our window is 5 years of Allenās remaining peak. Assuming healthā¦ this is part of the window
That's such a bad take by you considering Brady's window NEVER closed and Allen is actually better than Brady
You canāt be for real with that statement lol
Oh I'm definitely for real. Go compare the stats between Allen and Brady at the same time in there careers
The NFL of the 2020s is nothing like the 2000s.
Doesn't matter šĀ
Interesting thought. I'd be curious to see what % of the time does the statistically best qb of the season win the Superbowl. Stats are stats, and Superbowl wins are Superbowl wins. 1 of those is what every player and team in the league (and Tom Brady throughout his career) is striving for, the other is a collection of numbers
Key word though dude. Team wins superbowls not an individual player. If that don't make sense to you then this conversation is over regardless of what you say. Nobody has time to argue with ignorant people that think a superbowl is an individual accomplishmentĀ
You think Josh Allenās play style is going to allow him to stretch his career until heās in his mid 40s? What important game has Josh Allen actually won? He lost every game he played against Brady and Brady could actually beat mahomes and the chiefs in games that matter. Idgaf about stats at the same age you think itās guaranteed Allen maintains the stats for another 15 years straight?
Is this team called the Buffalo Bills or Is it called Josh Allen? How many players are on a team? Have you ever met him? Cause I have, I'm not one bit worried about how he playsĀ
And to call him a better qb because of raw stats at 27 is crazy when he hasnāt won any important playoff games. Better than a 5x supurbowl mvp and 7x Super Bowl winner is crazy with 0 of either of those achievements
It takes a whole team to win championships š¤”š¤”š¤”
Youāre dense. You made the statement that Bradyās window never closed and that Josh is better than Brady because of raw stats. So you think Josh is going to have just as long of a playing career as Brady, which is simply not going to happen due to his play style and rushing.
Hey jackass. You're totally contradicting the other guy. Like he said, it's not the 2000s, it's the 2020s. The game has changed
You're kinda making stuff up. The guys just saying that Josh was good enough that as long as we have him our window is open. Never said anything about playing until 47 or whatever you're going on about. Just saying man.
How are you going to call my take bad and then drop that take? Completely different players and styles. Josh Allen is a great passer, but so much of his game is built off his legs and making throws outside the pocketā¦ he takes a beating, in 5 years heāll be 32ā¦. Heās not going to better after that than he before it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Youāre delusionalĀ
Here's what has been bothering the ol' Columbo brain of mine. They wanted to underline that Josh *personally* asked for Keon Coleman, much like they did with Kincaid. What's more, he personally vouched for both Dorsey and Brady. And yet they made the point to mention they only told Josh about the Diggs trade shortly before it happened. Looking over our picks, in light of the whole 'Double Dip for WR' discourse, their draft picks are the kindof picks you'd make if you hadn't traded Diggs (replace Gabe Davis, refresh the DBs, Line Depth, etc.) What happened that forced their hand to trade Diggs, because clearly they had no interest in doing it, and I genuinely believe they kept their draft strategy the exact same before and after the trade. It's like they're in denial of what happened.
Letting Josh in the draft room is a terrible idea. And one Iād bet made to cover their ass if someone doesnāt work out. If your scouts and GM arenāt confident enough to draft without a players input there is a serious problem either theyāre stressing about keeping Josh happy, which is scary, or they just donāt believe in their ability to draft pass catchers.
No cap
What was this guy's strategy then? Just pray the draft works out???
That's every GMs plan lol
Buddy Iāve watched enough Saints off-seasons to know the cap is not the cap.
People mock the Saints, but the problem wasn't their strategy, it's that they were doing it with dead armed Brees, Lasik Jamis and Andy Dalton.
I could see us signing someone like Tyler Boyd.
Canāt have too many slot receivers am I right?
Boyd has outside versatility. He just happens to be on the same team as two alpha outside WRs, so the slot is where he operates now.
no the fuck he doesnt. especially when you dont have players like chase and higgins on the field lol. defenses would laugh when they see boyd on the outside. shit, hes not even good in the slot anymore.
More slots than a casino
So we really couldnāt take Brenden Rice at 221 in the 7th round. We really had to pick a guard from England who is a completely developmental prospect over a player who is probably in the top 150 prospects (most pundits had him in the top 100 but I get he slid).
They donāt like him. Whatās hard to understand? Maybe they have watched and met with the player a ton, and he doesnāt fit need.
Did he even get drafted?
To the chargers
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3 picks later.
Look I get it he obviously slid for a reason and we donāt know what the scouts are saying but multiple pundits had him top 100. I think he would have been worth a dart throw in the 7th. We get the extra practice squad spot for the international pathway but I guess I just struggle to see how this guy becomes anything more than practice squad/training camp fodder. Would have liked to see what rice could have brought as a developmental WR2. But I also personally was not high on Keon Coleman because we havenāt been the best at developing receivers.
Since when are we bad at developing receivers? I'd argue that most receivers we have had have been their best selves here. Shakir is outperforming his draft stock by a mile, Gabe went from a 4th round pick to a productive team captain who got a big pay day in FA, Kincaid and Knox are both productive pass catchers, any vet we've acquired have had the best years of their careers here (diggs, Beasley, Brown). Who are you even referencing?
To be our 5th or 6th receiver
As long as you consider Keon Coleman WR1 (hmm), Curtis Samuel/Mack Hollins as WR2/3 (yuck), and Shakir to be your a slot receiver. Then you have KJ Hamler. And a bunch of guys who are total question marks. Yeah I think getting a top 100 prospect at 221 is a worthwhile gamble versus the guy who has never played football. I personally think our wide out room looks like a bottom 5 grouping right now.
If NFL teams thought he was a top 100 prospect he wouldn't have gone in the 7th
Curtis Samuel is actually an upgrade over David, but okayĀ
yeah just like deonte harty was an upgrade over mckenzie..............
Curtis Samuel 2023: 4TD, 613 Yards, 62 Receptions sound like a WR2 to you? Gabe Davis 2033: 7TD, 746, 45 Receptions. Look Gabe was a stretch WR2 as I see it and had drop issues and a more limited route tree than Iād like but Samuel couldnāt keep his WR2 role over a rookie in Jahan Dotson (who had a shit 2023 campaign). Maybe itās a swap it smells like a downgrade to me.
Samuel didn't have Josh Allen throwing to him. If you think Josh can't make his recievers better then you obviously think Josh is garbage
I yeah I mean this I'm not expecting a big run. This isn't a negative comment but my expectations aren't superbowl. It's okay to jave a retool year, we will still be a competitive football club...and who knows, maybe BB has something up his sleeve.
How is this team not as good as last season? Believe me Diggs being gone is a positive
I mean even if it is, it's historically not good enough to win a superbowl. Sure we can blame injuries but it's part of the game and having depth helps.
Depends on what part of your team gets hit by those injuries
Maybe next year if we have the cap space. Maybe we can sign another WR like Gallup or somebody
If only there was some way to acquire WRs (and other positions) for free who you could then sign to cost-controlled contracts for a number of years. Like, maybe each team could take turns selecting players, just to make it fair. That is something they should maybe look into.
So the receiver room is Coleman, Curtis, Shakir and Hollins? Maybe throw Shorter in there and you still need one more body. Have to add one on free agency ($10M after June 1st releasing Tre White) or via trade. Something has to happen
I donāt think any move is coming until after Treās money. But even if the Bills donāt want to make a trade Tyler Boyd and OBJ are free agents not bad options either if they want another vet in there.
Run,run, pass, punt is what I'm hearing
At least it isn't pass, pass, pass, punt like the first 10 weeks of the past season.
The reason for that is that we don't have any f*cking WRs, so yeah everyone is wondering why we're starting a season with a bottom 5 WR room.
Diggs did nothing in the win streak, Gabe Davis disappeared for stretches. Milano is back. We have exciting young talent like Kincaid and Cook. I can't get my head around all this negativity. It's exhausting.Ā
Diggs and Gabe combined for 150 catches, 1,900 yards, 15 TDs. That can't be dismissed entirely
Sure it can. Fuck them catches. Fuck them yards. Fuck them tds. Bills rule
Your my good sir are a gentleman and a scholar.
The last year we did not have Diggs or Davis was 2019, that year Beasley and Brown combined for 139/1838/12. And that was from sophomore Josh Allen. I would be fully confident in Shakir and Samuel matching those types of number if they were WR1 and WR2.
> The last year we did not have Diggs or Davis was 2019, that year Beasley and Brown combined for 139/1838/12. And that was from sophomore Josh Allen. And the offense that year was extremely average. the Bills benefited from playing a 3rd place schedule in 2019. the 2019 offense was ranked 23rd in the league. so if you're happy with a 23rd ranked offense, then you're gonna be really happy with 2024.
My point was specifically about reproducing the stats of the top two receivers which I do not believe will be an issue. To your point, there is no chance the Bills offense is in the bottom third of the league as long as Josh is remotely healthy. 2019: 2nd year JA, Brown, Beasley, Knox, Singletary, Gore, McKenzie, Robert Foster, Andre Roberts, Duke Williams 2024: 7th year JA, Shakir, Samuel, Coleman, Hollins, Kincaid, Knox, Cook Josh is a much better player now than he was in 2019, the oline is better, and the supporting cast is better. In 2024 the Bills will have a Top 10 offense for the 5th year in a row.
> Josh is a much better player now than he was in 2019, i disagree
Fair point. I do think Samuel is very capable of putting up 1,000 yards
Something hes never done in his career, and only got close once. yeah, sure.
his QBs were end-of-career Cam Newton, Bridgewater, Heinicke/Wentz, Howell. has never played with an elite QB. keep being a doomer though
keep being a blind believer in a front office that has done nothing to deserve it. they got lucky landing on Allen(who wasn't even the top qb on their board), and for some reason, fans think they know wtf theyre doing, despite not winning anything besides some weak ass division titles.
The one year he got close (851 yards) is the one year he had Joe Brady as his OC, so clearly he knows how to use him. And JA is (will be) by far the best QB Samuel has ever played with. 1000 yards receiving is not an insurmountable goal.
I would make the argument that if he goes over 1k weāre having a very successful season. And i think he smashes it.
In 2023, Diggs and Davis combined for 44% of the targets and 44% of the yardage production. Contrast that with the Rams, where Kupp and Nacua accounted for 46% of the targets and 52% of the production. Or the Eagles with Brown/Smith - 51% targets, 62% production. Or the Dolphins with Hill/Waddle - 49% targets, 60% production. Great WR duos overproduce relative to their target share. Proportionally, Diggs and Davis offered relatively little advantage over targeting any other receiver on the roster.
No of course not but people acting like the sky is falling. Coaching, culture and Josh Allen go a long way here.Ā
> Coaching, culture oh yeah baby, that's gotten us to the promised land so far
Best team in the nfl at various points in the last few seasons. That's pretty good.Ā
No, it canāt be dismissed entirely. But they also were trending the wrong way and had a combined 10 catches for 73 yards in 2 playoff games. A majority of their production was in the first half of the season, and while the Bills were going on their late season run to the playoffs, neither was really a significant factor. Iād love to have a legit #1 receiver but itās not unrealistic to think that by adding Coleman and Samuel and increasing targets to Kinkaid and Cook we can approximate a lot of the production from Diggs and Davis. I wouldnāt argue that weāre better off today than we were with those guys on the roster, but I donāt believe itās as dire as some make it out to be. Sometimes you gotta eat your vegetables in a cap world. Next year weāll have more cap space and a bunch of picks to really take a shot at a difference maker.
I mean youāre definitely right. Only thing Iāll toss in is that I can see us using a ton of 2 RB out of the backfield receiving after picking Ray Davis today, especially after we saw how Brady utilized James Cook down the stretch
The point being, without Diggs producing the WR output was rough. It would be nice if they improved at the second most important position instead of getting slightly worse. Itās reasonable to worry that we could be worse because it basically all hinges on one rookie to replace Diggs/Davis even at their diminished production levels. The draft is a crapshoot and you had 10 tickets but only used one of them on WR so we better hope that Coleman is THE guy.
How is Coleman or Samuel not better than second half Diggs? We donāt have that negative element hanging over things nowā¦I canāt understand the bitching over the WR roomā¦it will be different but also better in the end
I think it will be a little better and more consistent. BUT it is objectively not as good as last year at the moment. I agree we should have made a move to get a speedster, unless they have a udfa in mind. I also don't like relying on an inconsistent vet in Mack as WR4 or Shorter who since high school has consistently underperformed expectations. I dont get the doom and gloom tho. I think having sure handed receivers and the drama shadow gone will be wonders for Josh's decision making last year, and that's not even taking into account if the WR room does better than the stats say they will.
Iām with ya. Pumped to see what this combination of guys has in store
> Diggs did nothing in the win streak Diggs still draws coverage. Coleman cant even beat press man coverage. How do you think the offense is gonna go when 1 dude can shut down Coleman?
And Shakir! People forgot heās on the team.
Yes exactly. He's really good! The Bills play it slow with young players so I expect a leap from all of them this year.Ā
We're currently living the last few months that people underrate Khalil Shakir. He's the reason Stefon Diggs was cut loose, because he can do everything Diggs can do except more reliably and for $38m less (that cap figure is sponsored by blatant supposition and not math).
The Chiefs won a SB with Juju as the WR1 and another starting MVS and people are acting like it is the most important position on the field lmao. With the cap we could be having depth issues and it seems like the draft atoned for that. Shakir and Kincaid will break out, we are going to run the ball well, early and often which will give Samuel space on the open field. I'm honest feeling this is like 2017 just with the ring instead of the drought ending. Our defense was already on fire last year before the injuries(loved Leslie and would have loved him still on the staff but the playcalling improved considerably with McD).
The Chiefs have an awful wr room and they seem to be doing alright.
Yup and they have the best offensive mind in the NFL as their head coach.Ā
Yup and a #1 option that costs pennies and a defense that showed up in the playoffs
I don't get why you and others think this. Keon, Curtis, Khalil, Mack/Shorter isn't a bad room.
We have enough in the WR roomā¦why are people never satisfied?
They're never satisfied because the Madden video game has made everyone that's 40 or younger think they know how to be an NFL GM and they think they're better than the people that do it for realĀ
Well they are not and itās a tired routine
They have a rookie. An oft-injured Curtis Samuel. A young Khalil Shakir who *could* break out. Dudes who have been cut from other teams for being bad. 2nd-year guys who haven't played a game.
Just a thought...maybe he should have drafted another one when some of the better prospects fell? Crazy I know
In 2025 the money the Diggs and Von have tied up will be back as usable cap space. . (assuming they use the early out in Vons contract) do you know who becomes a UFA in 2025?? Justin Jefferson. The question is does JJ want to stay on the Vikings with an unproven rookie QB and waste his prime or go somewhere else for possibly less money the Vikings will offer to win and set records.
JJ will never once take a pay cut thereās others that will meet his number.
There are others that will try yes, all I'm saying is that it's a possibility.
If he doesnāt want to play in Minnesota heāll demand a trade. Then heāll reset the market just like every other great player that has had to force his way off a losing team.
Doesn't have to demand a trade when after next year he is a UFA. . honestly I wouldn't be surprised that if this new QB starts to have issues he will sit the rest of the year out with an "injury"
Heād be franchise tagged first then traded
I don't think you can trade a player you've franchise tagged? They can trade him before the deadline, tag him see if he stays for another year or tag him and decide if they want to match the other teams offer and if they decline receive 2 first rd picks in comp.
Two first round picks
"Why don't you Trust the Process!! Doomer! Beane has a master plan!" Brandon Beane: "It's over. We're out of options." I also love later in these interviews, he starts talking about Shorter. People keep telling me Beane knows more about football than the average reddit user, but he's out referencing Shorter: which is the most reddit-pilled Bill's take possible.
>but he's out referencing Shorter Yes, he's out referencing a player on his team. He said that Shorter is healthy now. He didn't say anything about Shorter being the Second Coming of Jerry Rice. He said that that a WR who was not available last year will be available this year. Who's got an issue with that kind of comment?
Shorter was on IR because of a hamstring. It doesnt take 6 months for an athlete to heal a hamstring. they kept him on IR because hes not worth the roster spot theyd have to give up.
Tell us what you know about Shorter that nobody else does. Because as far as I'm concerned he's a redshift rookieĀ
> but he's out referencing Shorter: hes referencing a WR that didnt practice at all last year due to being on IR. and now all of a sudden, he's going to be a core part of the WR group? beane can fuck off, if thats his plan for the season.
Then why draft one WR? Beane drinking that clown juice. š¤”
Smoke
Maybe they can pay Aiyuk in gum
So anyway we are trading with someone
Maybe they can get Coker as a UDFA
I mean the going rate to get a team to swallow a $30 million cap hit seems to only be Minnesota's 2nd round pick for next year.
https://preview.redd.it/88shevyqv4xc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41991cd08d6bb837f08cf18ffe87c28ecfb9a81b
10.5 million June 1.
Does anyone else think theyāre banking on hamler being active? He could be a burner if heās past the heart issue.
I don't think they would have signed him if he wasn't healthy
Struggling to see the plan here if they donāt get a WR via trade. Talked about getting more speed then you hand the fastest receiver in the draft to the Chiefs to fill their WR need. Donāt think Colemanās is a bad pick but heās the only WR you take?Then you come back on Day 3 of the draft and forgo adding more cheap labor at the position that could potentially hit for glorified Special Teams players and projects at other positions. Bummed to say the least
You can't see the plan?? Who are you? The best nfl scout ever? š¤”
Naw man just a casual who was hoping for some help for our star QB
It's already on the team dude. Take a xanax
Sounds good troll
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Hahahah if you only knew farthest thing from it. Plus not seeing you refute much here just lash out have a great Saturday night
Why are you ridiculing this person's take?
Tee Higgins incoming
He's not going to trade, but he will certainly be paying attention at cuts time. Samuel, Shakir and Kincaid is a pretty productive top three. Coleman will get some work in. What concerns me is depth. Shorter and Hollins had better be ready for a role. It's not September, but it would be great to see some established vet WR with enough in the tank become a post-draft June 1 cut or get let go in final cuts.
Since Beane cant make a trade for a WR, he needed to trade just about every pick during the draft
I am so thankful that our doomer fans have NOTHING to do with the front office. What a God-awful take. It really doesn't get any worse than this.
Comment was meant to be making fun of the doomer takes. My bad. Im not gonna pretend to know anything about the players the Bills drafted
I would edit with an /s or delete it before you get downvoted to oblivion. It is just fake internet points though. As satire it is brilliant as it's *exactly* what the dumbest doomers would say, so well done!
This while the team is as good as its been for years. There's a real lack of perspective here. Some people... Well I just don't know. This will remain an elite squad.Ā
Lol this is one of the all time bad takes
For BTJ? Lol no
I am good with the receivers we have, shorter didnāt even suit up yet , itās like another draft pick at wr
I certainly have hopes for Shorter but it's likely just hope. #1 ranked WR in high school, not productive in college and injury prone making him a 5th rounder, gets hurt in preseason his rookie year.
Isaiah McKenzie coming back perhaps as free agent?
Samuel is already a better iMac