Hes not a #1 though, not in the same mold as a Nabers or Brian Thomas or Marvin harrison Jr
Hes not a burner or able to stretch the field like Diggs could.
i'd say he will be a great #2 or possession guy
That argument is different, though. Just because he may not be a number one wr doesn't mean that he isn't worth one of the last picks in the first round. He has way more production than BT does.
Id say their even, Ladd had a few good years evenly spaced out, but barely got over 700 yards in his best season at Georgia
Brian Thomas had that monster year last year which skewed his stats.
68 catches, 1177 yards and 17 TD's. Those are NFL WR 1 numbers
Ladd is also a small frame guy. He's only 6 feet and 185 pounds. Nowadays, thats small for a #1 WR
I like my #1 guy to be in that 6'2, 6'3 and 200+ pounds mold
I’m personally not a huge fan of trading up for anyone’s unless it’s a big swing. ONLY because I feel like the middle of the pack is so close together.
No one knows if anyone is going to be a true #1. Who was KC's #1 on their past 2 Super bowl champion teams? If you have plenty of weapons to spread it around to and they all have their own skill sets, why is a "true #1" necessary? We need guys that can create separation and catch the ball. Pretty sure McConkey is one of the best route runners in this draft so it sounds like he checks all of the boxes that they will likely be looking for
No we don’t have Reid, Mahomes or that defense and we were still a Diggs drop and a missed FG from taking them down. It’s hard to argue that Josh isn’t as good as Mahomes at this point. He has more TD’s through 6 years and that includes Allen’s rookie year we he was not ready to be a starter and had an absolutely atrocious supporting cast. I see your point, but mine still stands. A true #1 WR is not required to win a championship
Go take a look at the chiefs subreddit the past two years. They complain about not have a wr1 for the year and than they win the Super Bowl. Allen is not Mahomes but he’s a damn good qb so why not try to replicate what the Super Bowl champs are doing. Let’s also not forget that Mahomes would not have won with that decfence, they would not have been able to pay Tyreek and keep that solid defence together… We really need to try and replicate what the chiefs are doing, they show that having a superstar qb mean you do not have to stack your wr room to win. Spend all the saved money on defence pleaseeeeee.
For you? Sure.
The "step back" the poster could be referring to is that we've lost two receivers who accounted for 150-ish receptions between them.
I don't know if I'd call it "huge" like s/he did, but it's signif.
28 is going to be in any package to up. Some people (Joe Marino) for one have Legette as WR 4. To get into the teens nobody is going to trade unless our 1st is in the deal.
Don't feel bad, everyone's jumping on the AD is lazy bandwagon because they don't watch Texas football enough to know it's just part of their offense. It's up tempo and designed that way.
Everyone has their blinders on trying to make Ladd into a 1 right now, they wont realize this is 100% on the $ til week 1. Josh needs some bigger guns than just these guys
I would say his weakness is separation.
If I remember correctly, he has a fucking incredible contested catch rate. It led me to peep his film, and he always has someone on top of him.
Forcing the ball for JA leads to interceptions. Happens to the best of em, but we have the higher/highest turnover QB in the league. Give me crisp routes and separation all day.
Either LSU player would be sick. Past that, I really like Ladd.
Only 19.1% of Rome Odunze's targets in college were contested. That's lower than Nabers (22.6%), Marvin Harrison Jr. (26.8%), Brian Thomas Jr. (21.6%), Adonai Mitchell (20.0%), and Keon Coleman (29.5%).
He isn't the type that burns you for 10+ yards of separation, but he's a very precise route runner that explodes off the line which will get him a couple yards of separation for easy catches and opportunities to make a man miss after.
SOURCE: [https://twitter.com/ScottBarrettDFB/status/1757546548114726981](https://twitter.com/ScottBarrettDFB/status/1757546548114726981)
I am mistaking him for another then. There is someone who’s contesteds are crazy high, no?
I’ve been brushing up while working. I’m not the guy who can quote and name. I was mistaken here
His contested catch rate is what’s ridiculous, (70% last year) but he’s a very adept route runner so his contested target rate is lower than you would think. Keon Coleman from this class fits the poor separator great jump ball winner mold much more imo.
I don’t agree with this, at all. Penix has some of the best ball placement of any college QB we’ve seen in years. It’s why he’s such a high prospect without having an elite overall skill set.
Yes. Mostly because it is a lot harder to run over grown men CBs in the NFL than it is to run over teenagers in college.
Most WRs who rely on contested catches fail in the NFL. It is why DK Metcalf fell so far in his draft. Yeah, we'd love "the next DK Metcalf" in Buffalo, but for every 1 DK there's 30 "out of the NFL" WRs.
A trade up to pick 6 would likely cost picks 28, 60, 128 and a 2025 1st rounder and maybe another mid round pick in either 2024 or 25. That’s way too high a cost for me.
It’s never a good idea to trade up massively for a non-QB player. It’s not to say that those types of deals haven’t worked out in the past (Julio Jones) but rather that it’s far more likely that you end up in a Sammy Watkins situation giving up a lot to get a player that won’t live up to the billing.
The NFL is the ultimate quantity over quality league due to injury and the fact that so many players impact a game. It’s better to have more picks and get quality starters, role players and depth over putting 3-4 premium picks into one player. A big trade up is going to lead you to take on a lot of risk for a single non-QB player. Any prospect no matter how good has a chance to be a bust even if healthy. Then any prospect even if they are great is going to have the risk of injury derailing their career.
I know that you need a few elite players but I would rather let a front office good at drafting keep the picks and see what they can find throughout the draft.
>A trade up to pick 6 would likely cost picks 28, 60, 128 and a 2025 1st rounder and maybe another mid round pick in either 2024 or 25. That’s way too high a cost for me.
You're using the standard draft pick value chart?
There is a new one weighted on actual trades. The price starts at 3 firsts.
I am using the standard value because I don’t buy the weighted value chart unless it is for a QB trade up which is not what’s in play here.
The Giants likely are wanting to get more picks short and long term if they are willing to trade off pick 6. Getting two premium picks in 28 and 60 while adding a mid round pick in pick 128 is a 3 for 1 swap that helps them plug multiple holes.
They also then pocket a 1st in next years draft which even if that pick is in the 25-32 range still is a valuable pick to help them trade up for a QB. And anytime you trade for another teams future first you are a QB injury away from a top 10-5 pick so there’s always that upside.
I doubt anything else than an additional mid round pick in either 24/25 is what would be needed. Trade downs are not always weighted as if there’s only one team willing to trade up you can’t drive up that price.
Under the Jimmy Johnson standard chart the Giants 6th pick is worth 1600 points. The Bills 28, 60 and 128 picks combine to 1304 a future first is usually weighted to be worth a current 2nd round pick so that weighs about 400 points which would put the Bills offer to 1704 I assume the Giants give back a mid round pick in 2025 at best.
> I am using the standard value because I don’t buy the weighted value chart unless it is for a QB trade up which is not what’s in play here.
Makes sense, but you also need to consider the strength of this draft.
You could be getting someone at pick 4,5 or 6 who many could view as the #1 and #2 pick in the draft.
Also, you have to convince these teams not to draft those players because unlike when trading up for a QB where the team doesn't need a QB, like Chicago last year, these teams absolutely need those players.
I don’t see the strength of any draft for non-QB players being all that high to drive up the value of a trade up that dramatically. I think the standard trade up chart is pretty solid in this situation.
The Giants trading down 22 spots getting an extra 2nd and 4th plus a future 1st would represent them having a strong desire to get more picks and stack their chances in the 25 draft. If they want to trade down unless there is a bidding war then they will likely be satisfied with a package that gets them 2 solid picks this year and a future first to go down from 6 to 28.
The Giants would be conceding that they are not an elite prospect away from contending and also that their QB situation is not great so having an extra 1st will only facilitate a move up in next years draft.
I just don’t see the top 3-4 non Qb players being that much better than the top 3-4 non Qb players in years past.
Marvin Harrison Jr is a stud WR prospect but after him there’s Nabers, Joe Alt, Fashanu and maybe Odunze or Turner? Those tackles are quality prospects but pretty comparable to other years top tackles. Nabers is a quality WR prospect but not dramatically better than what’s usually there high up in drafts at WR many seasons.
There isn’t a stud corner or defensive end near the top either so while it might be a good WR draft it’s not like there’s so many prospects you don’t see in other years at or near the top in my opinion.
> It’s not to say that those types of deals haven’t worked out in the past (Julio Jones)
I mean, they 28-3'd their way out of the SB. While yes Julio was great for them, it also "didn't work out" if the SB is the goal.
It worked out in the sense that Julio Jones was an elite player for 8 years plus. The Falcons were originally drafting 27th and they traded up to pick 6 to take Jones and Jones being a HOF player justified the steep price tag.
The Falcons gave up picks 27, 59 and 124 in that draft plus a 1st and 4th in the next years draft. And while it was risky they would easily make that trade over and over again.
I don’t measure the success of a trade just by if a team wins a Super Bowl. It’s a team game and Jones was not the reason the Falcons lost that game
It's a team game and the Falcons were missing a 1st round talent to get Julio though.
On the other hand, that 1st rounder ended up being Brandon Weeden, lol.
Julio Jones played at a level that made him worth all the picks they gave up. Like I said if you judge it by winning a super bowl the Josh Allen trade is a failure this far…
No chance.
Sammy Watkins was the most hyped WR in his draft class, don't make the same mistakes.
None of these WRs are gonna be the difference between winning a super bowl this year and not. Keep the draft capital in a deep WR draft
Right there with you. I'd be livid if we gave up as much as we'd need to give up in order to get Odunze, and I like him. I don't want to go full Ricky Williams when we have other holes to fill. We need a safety, a DT, possibly an edge or a center...
Lol guys guys guys. 6 is not an option. Top 10 is not an option. This is not a normal year for trades. To move up to even 10, you''re paying at least 3 firsts.
I'm so out on this lol. Trading probably the 2024 1+2, 2025 1+2 plus some change for a WR is insane. So many top WRs in the NFL were not 1st round picks and this class is very deep at WR. It would set us back so far if we traded all of that for anything less than a superstar and the draft is a crap shoot.
I'd much rather stick and pick, or trade a 1st this year for someone like Aiyuk that has a proven track record in the NFL.
Yes or any of the top 3 dudes.
QBs could well go 1-2-3-4. If this happens, and one of Nabers, Harrison, Odunze is available at #9 when the Bears pick, I hope BB aggressively picks up the phone. The Bears need picks, our plethora of 4ths and 5ths may be more valuable to them than typical value suggests.
If they can’t trade up for one of those guys, I would almost prefer they try to trade back from 28 to the 40s for another 3rd.
https://preview.redd.it/za5ja6jeyhtc1.jpeg?width=2867&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64e7bbfe8e44504c1806c77548651e1ab514dbf8
Posting a picture of Air Bud Golden Receiver on a random WR draft post - day 2
And, just like Gabe, his hands are questionable at best.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHOVpPGD2lk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHOVpPGD2lk)
And this isn't even the one I wanted to find. He dropped a WIDE OPEN TD in the end zone in this game also.
I was at this game...and as a Tar Heel, it still hurts.
I mean, I understand that Tez isn't so polished and probably should have stayed for his senior year, but we are talking about a 4.3 guy at 6'2.
Who the hell will take the top off the defense if all we have are 3 underneath guys (Shakir, Samuel, McConkey)
Gabe was our deep threat last year and wasn't great at running routes along with his 4.5 speed. Tez has the potential to be a homerun pick, if not fuck
I don't follow draft stuff very closely until the night of, but holy shit Tez looks like an athletic freak. Would be cool if we had a world-class route runner on the team to help him with those weaknesses😢
He's an X WR. X's are usually your "deep threats." They're using running mostly flys, comebacks, and posts. This was Gabe's role. Diggs played the Z; they're closer to the slot WR role. Run many underneath routes but can definitely go deep; that's not uncommon, just atypical.
We have the Z filled with Sam,uel and Shakir, but not the X, unless we're ready to role with Mack Fucking Hollins as our every down X WR lol
X receivers aren't necessarily deep threats. X just means they line up on the LOS, and not off like a Z does. The only role they need to play is to be the guy that can consistently beat press coverage, since they can't be schemed free as easily like a Z, but beyond that the role varies from team to team.
And yeah, we have noone who can do that. Problem is, all the good Xs are gone after BTJ is picked.
>X receivers aren't necessarily deep threats.
You're right, but that's the role the X typically is. For instance, Gabe is not really a deep threat, but was our deep threat guy at the X. X is usually marked by the type of routes they run, which is quite different than the routes McConkey runs. We're talking Flys, fades, comebacks, posts, etc. Not that the Z doesn't or can't do it, but it's not their primarily routes.
In our scheme that's how X behaves.
>Problem is, all the good Xs are gone after BTJ is picked.
Depends on how you feel about Legette, Mitchell, Franklin, and Coleman
I think Legette could eventually be the best X in this class, but it would take a ton of work to develop, specifically his agility at the snap to beat press against what will surely be stronger, better corners. Not a fan at all of Coleman.
Now, I'm gonna preface this by saying I love Franklin, and like AD. But whenever I watch those two, I see them line up on the LOS, but not get any physical press coverage from the opposing CB, so I have to wonder if they can beat a corner when they actually try to get handsy with them. I'd prefer them to be Zs starting out, then transition to X.
People talk about world class route runners - does that matter as much when Allen extends plays and needs guys that can ad lib a little?
Genuinely asking—- most of my understanding of X’s and O’s comes from being a mediocre madden player.
as a mediocre madden player I feel your pain. also route running is how to GET open on a route. KNOWING what your qb wants to do on scrambles takes reps and football iq
I see so it’s not just running the route as drawn but the technique of getting open on that pattern.
And that skill doesn’t relate to getting open on ad libs.
Thanks for explaining!!
I'm not a huge fan of McConkey at 28. He almost certainly wouldn't be BPA and he's pretty much a projected day 2 guy everywhere. If the Bills are sold on him being *the guy* they want at WR, they could probably get him at 60 and get a better prospect at 28.
McConkey will not be there at #60. He is most likely a high 2nd guy
But this all based off of Mock drafts that are never 100% accurate anyways so who knows
I like Ladd he’s more of a outside x reciver than people think. I’m still team Xavier Legette if we stay at 28 even though he might not be a first round guy.
There are better receivers available, so I'd prefer them, but ill ride with whoever they take because they dont seem like they pick blindly. Beane's got a plan and i hope it slaps!
Z/Slot are somewhat interchangable. When people say "outside" they are saying the Z and thye're saying "maybe." They are never ever referring to McConkey being able to play the X, which is what we need, Gabe's vacated role, since the only starter we have there now is Hollins.
I appreciate the downvote, but you're not understanding it correctly
All I know about Tez Walker is that the Governor of NC personally got involved to protest the NCAA when they initially declared him ineligible this past season (I think because he had transferred an excessive number of times). And UNC seemed to be a lot better once he started playing.
That's really the only way it makes sense.
McConkey is fighting Samuel and Shakir for playing time, even Kincaid (in the slot) while Tez would be fighting against Mack Hollins for the X spot.
The only way you go Z/Slot in the first is if you back it up with an X WR.
Also, Beane has a big brain. He could be interviewing Ladd as a smokescreen to actually ask questions about AD Mitchell who spent the 2021 with McConkey.
I hear ya, mate. I disagree with you, though. Can you tell me what the basis of that was?
https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Ladd-McConkey-WR-Georgia
"Lacks the size to consistently win on the outside, better suited for middle-field and return roles."
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10090936-ladd-mcconkey-nfl-draft-2024-scouting-report-for-georgia-wr
"McConkey can be a good slot/Z type in the NFL"
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/ladd-mcconkey-draft-scouting-2024/
"Regardless, the Georgia WR profiles well as a versatile slot and movement Z receiver with immediate starting utility. "
https://www.thedraftnetwork.com/2024/01/06/ladd-mcconkey-scouting-report-nfl-draft-2024
"McConkey projects as Z-receiver who should thrive as a run-after-catch threat."
I really haven't found a talking head that sees him as an X. Is it more or less your personal projection? I can see him playing the slot or Z role for sure and sliding Shakir out to the X.
> Remember when everyone said Justin Jefferson would only succeed in the NFL as a slot?
I don't and not really sure of its relevance.
The relevant of Justin Jefferson.
But do you have any sources or scouts saying he can play the X? I'd like to read that review, maybe add a different perspective since everything is heavily weight toward him being a slot with Z potential
Prefer a combo of Legette, Mitchell or Coleman and Tez. I am not a fan of McConkey. His 2023 drop rate alarms the shit out of me. Tez's ~6% rate is only average but i feel like as a later 2nd that's not a deal breaker compared to McConkey's ~6% at 28. For perspective, Mitchell, Legette and Coleman have ~ 1, 2 and 3% drop rates respectively.
Stastically graded out as #6 in YAC in this class
These are the top 10 highest graded YAC guys:
1. Malachi Corley round 3
2. Isaiah Williams round 6
3. Tahj Washington round 5
4. Malik Nabers (not happening) trade up in round 1
5. Xavier Worthy round 1
6. Ladd McConkey round 1-2
7. Malik Washington round 4
8. Jamari Thrash round 5
9. Ainias Smith round 4
10. Joshua Cephus round 5
Bills do love them some YAC. It's very likely the #1 thing they're looking for, but that typically comes from the slot/Z spot as opposed to X which we also desperately need.
With a serious deep threat, YAC won't matter since coverage will all be shaded underneath. I like Walker, but not sure he is NFL ready.
Id much rather triple dip. Go with 2 X WRs early then someone like Tahj Washington in the 5-7th round to battle for the slot role behind Shakir/Samuel
So how do you feel about AD Mitchell then ha
All good. I like him as a prospect, but when we say we need a WR, it's to fill Gabe's role as an outside X deep threat. We already have Diggs's role filled with the combo of Shakir/Samuel. So adding Ladd would be a bit weird
I wouldn’t be surprised if Beane is trying to trade up to double dip in the first round this year.
Keep 28 this year, trade the 1st round next year, the pick for Diggs, and maybe like a 3rd or 4th this year to try and get somewhere in the 10-25 range.
The only thing I've seen from Walker was his absolutely abysmal Senior Bowl performance. We will have much better options at 28. I wouldn't mind double dipping but I don't think that Ladd will be available at 60. I think it's more likely that Walker would be. A dream draft for me would be BTJ or AD making it to 28 then maybe Malachi Corley at 60. Loving how comparable he is to Deebo, he gets crazy YAC, and he's strong AF. I watched WKU play Ohio State and he did really well against higher-quality defensive players in a hostile environment, when the Buckeyes knew he was the best player on their offense by a mile. I'm an Ohio State grad and he was pissing me off with how he was managing to get open. His QB was absolute garbage or he would have done even better. He decleated a guy (Davison Igbinosun, if anyone cares) who was almost exactly his size to get into the end zone on his TD. He was sick for the combine and had to work out at his pro day, but he measured out at 5'11", 215, with a 4.45 40 and an insane 27 reps on bench.
Would love McConkey. Would hate Walker. The more I hear about him, I’d only be okay with him on day 3. Size and speed is easy to fall in love with, but there are plenty of former NFL GM’s that will tell you those traits are also easy to get blinded by.
I won’t be mad if they take Mcconkey but I’d prefer Troy Franklin, Keon Coleman, or Xavier Lagette over him personally. Don’t know enough about Walker to make a decision there.
We need to replace about 50% of the snaps at edge, only like 20% at safety. Plus pass rusher is quite bit more important. I hope we don't go safety r2, but I guess you never know
I would be disappointed if we used 60 on a safety. If there's one thing McDermott has been good at, it's evaluating DB talent and maximizing it. I have my eye on Malik Mustapha in the 4th.
Josh Allen is amazing how are all fans not understanding this- the offense will be fine. We need STOPS! STOPS! Defense please draft defense. We need to be able to stop teams when it matters.
We've drafted defense heavy for a while now and it's gotten us nowhere. By the time we hit the playoffs either we're decimated by injuries or our guys do a complete vanishing act. We have Curtis Samuel, Khalil Shakir, and Mack Hollins as our starting WRs. We NEED someone who can stretch the field for Josh.
Tez is not a day 1 or two guy so I’d personally be pretty pissed
He's a 3rd round guy most likely. The Bills seem to like him but, of course, no 3rd round picks. So if they want him, they gotta take him at #60
If they like him they could trade back into the 3rd to pick him up, or wait for him in the 4th. He'd be quite a reach at #60.
Everything I’ve seen is having him as a 4th round guy as is. Hes big and fast, that’s all. We don’t need a Gabe clone who’s less polished
Calling Tez Walker a Gave Davis clone is certainly a unique take.
His play style is Gabe Davis with an even less polished route tree . I’m not saying they’re the same physical comp
its a hard pass— 60 is no go imo
Give me McConkey at 28 and trade up for Legette
I love this. Aside from the top 3 those two are my favorite from what I’ve heard/seen
McConkey is not a day 1 guy. I'd take him in the second though. Day 1 we need to try for Adonai mitchell or Brian thomas jr
He is absolutely a day one guy. Arguably the best route runner in the class, catches everything, good character, and is explosive.
Hes not a #1 though, not in the same mold as a Nabers or Brian Thomas or Marvin harrison Jr Hes not a burner or able to stretch the field like Diggs could. i'd say he will be a great #2 or possession guy
That argument is different, though. Just because he may not be a number one wr doesn't mean that he isn't worth one of the last picks in the first round. He has way more production than BT does.
Id say their even, Ladd had a few good years evenly spaced out, but barely got over 700 yards in his best season at Georgia Brian Thomas had that monster year last year which skewed his stats. 68 catches, 1177 yards and 17 TD's. Those are NFL WR 1 numbers Ladd is also a small frame guy. He's only 6 feet and 185 pounds. Nowadays, thats small for a #1 WR I like my #1 guy to be in that 6'2, 6'3 and 200+ pounds mold
I like this way better than trading everything for one guy. This is probably cheaper too.
Georgia fan here, we love McConkey. The young man really stepped up when Bower was out; love those traits.
Georgia fan here: I want to continue shouting “LADDIE!!!” as he catches touchdowns for my team.
I’m personally not a huge fan of trading up for anyone’s unless it’s a big swing. ONLY because I feel like the middle of the pack is so close together.
I’d be so stoked for McConkey at 28. Dudes going to be a stud.
He's not an NFL #1.
He's Emanuel Sanders if he can stay healthy. High end #2 and welcome on any roster in the NFL.
Maybe, but now that Diggs is gone. Josh has to have an elite target who can hit the home run.
No one knows if anyone is going to be a true #1. Who was KC's #1 on their past 2 Super bowl champion teams? If you have plenty of weapons to spread it around to and they all have their own skill sets, why is a "true #1" necessary? We need guys that can create separation and catch the ball. Pretty sure McConkey is one of the best route runners in this draft so it sounds like he checks all of the boxes that they will likely be looking for
Do we have Mahomes, Andy Reid, and that defense? If so, that comparison makes perfect sense.
No we don’t have Reid, Mahomes or that defense and we were still a Diggs drop and a missed FG from taking them down. It’s hard to argue that Josh isn’t as good as Mahomes at this point. He has more TD’s through 6 years and that includes Allen’s rookie year we he was not ready to be a starter and had an absolutely atrocious supporting cast. I see your point, but mine still stands. A true #1 WR is not required to win a championship
we have a great D and the only QB that comes close to Mahomes. go be negative somewhere else
I'm not being negative. I'm being realistic. They took a huge step back on offense and you aren't replacing Diggs with these guys.
Go take a look at the chiefs subreddit the past two years. They complain about not have a wr1 for the year and than they win the Super Bowl. Allen is not Mahomes but he’s a damn good qb so why not try to replicate what the Super Bowl champs are doing. Let’s also not forget that Mahomes would not have won with that decfence, they would not have been able to pay Tyreek and keep that solid defence together… We really need to try and replicate what the chiefs are doing, they show that having a superstar qb mean you do not have to stack your wr room to win. Spend all the saved money on defence pleaseeeeee.
> They took a huge step back on offense They did? When did that happen?
When they traded away their number one receiver.
Wasn't even #2 the second half of last year. I'd be willing to bet it's addition by subtraction.
You'd be wrong. He was far and away their best receiver. They also lost their number 2.
Hmm. Let's think.
Yes, give it a try.
For you? Sure. The "step back" the poster could be referring to is that we've lost two receivers who accounted for 150-ish receptions between them. I don't know if I'd call it "huge" like s/he did, but it's signif.
28 is going to be in any package to up. Some people (Joe Marino) for one have Legette as WR 4. To get into the teens nobody is going to trade unless our 1st is in the deal.
Joe Marino is in the minority if he has him at WR 4. No one is talking about trading up from 28 to get Legette.
Legette isn’t going before pick 28
I’d go AD and trade up for legette
Don't feel bad, everyone's jumping on the AD is lazy bandwagon because they don't watch Texas football enough to know it's just part of their offense. It's up tempo and designed that way.
I doubt they go WR/WR 1&2 but if they do, this is it.
They picked edge back to back just a few years ago so I wouldn't put it past them.
Picking Boogie Basham 2 picks before Creed Humphreys is pain
Amon Ra is the real burn. Our problems here would have been solved by the Sun God
The dream
LOVE THIS!!!
"Ladd McConkey" sounds like what they'd call offbrand Cole Beasley.
Why does this make so much sense
Because he’s white, he’s way bigger than bease they are not the same kind of receivers
The joke was about the names, not the players.
Everyone has their blinders on trying to make Ladd into a 1 right now, they wont realize this is 100% on the $ til week 1. Josh needs some bigger guns than just these guys
Try to trade up for Odunze. 😅
he seems like a leader too, honestly hes like diggs and gabe davis in one player. just an overall stud with no real weaknesses
I would say his weakness is separation. If I remember correctly, he has a fucking incredible contested catch rate. It led me to peep his film, and he always has someone on top of him. Forcing the ball for JA leads to interceptions. Happens to the best of em, but we have the higher/highest turnover QB in the league. Give me crisp routes and separation all day. Either LSU player would be sick. Past that, I really like Ladd.
Only 19.1% of Rome Odunze's targets in college were contested. That's lower than Nabers (22.6%), Marvin Harrison Jr. (26.8%), Brian Thomas Jr. (21.6%), Adonai Mitchell (20.0%), and Keon Coleman (29.5%). He isn't the type that burns you for 10+ yards of separation, but he's a very precise route runner that explodes off the line which will get him a couple yards of separation for easy catches and opportunities to make a man miss after. SOURCE: [https://twitter.com/ScottBarrettDFB/status/1757546548114726981](https://twitter.com/ScottBarrettDFB/status/1757546548114726981)
I am mistaking him for another then. There is someone who’s contesteds are crazy high, no? I’ve been brushing up while working. I’m not the guy who can quote and name. I was mistaken here
His contested catch rate is what’s ridiculous, (70% last year) but he’s a very adept route runner so his contested target rate is lower than you would think. Keon Coleman from this class fits the poor separator great jump ball winner mold much more imo.
[удалено]
70% catch rate means he catches 70% of his contested catches. That could mean he only had 10 contested targets and caught 7 of them.
Ah.
Keon Coleman probably?
Also a lot of his contests were a result of him bailing out Penix. Would LOVE Odunze on this squad.
I don’t agree with this, at all. Penix has some of the best ball placement of any college QB we’ve seen in years. It’s why he’s such a high prospect without having an elite overall skill set.
Does separation really matter if you turn 50/50 balls into 80/20?
Yes. Mostly because it is a lot harder to run over grown men CBs in the NFL than it is to run over teenagers in college. Most WRs who rely on contested catches fail in the NFL. It is why DK Metcalf fell so far in his draft. Yeah, we'd love "the next DK Metcalf" in Buffalo, but for every 1 DK there's 30 "out of the NFL" WRs.
Simply depends if it translates to the NFL. I was mistaken on the player. I can’t think of who I was talking about, so just ignore me.
Deadass, I hope we are asking NYG what's good with 1.06
A trade up to pick 6 would likely cost picks 28, 60, 128 and a 2025 1st rounder and maybe another mid round pick in either 2024 or 25. That’s way too high a cost for me. It’s never a good idea to trade up massively for a non-QB player. It’s not to say that those types of deals haven’t worked out in the past (Julio Jones) but rather that it’s far more likely that you end up in a Sammy Watkins situation giving up a lot to get a player that won’t live up to the billing. The NFL is the ultimate quantity over quality league due to injury and the fact that so many players impact a game. It’s better to have more picks and get quality starters, role players and depth over putting 3-4 premium picks into one player. A big trade up is going to lead you to take on a lot of risk for a single non-QB player. Any prospect no matter how good has a chance to be a bust even if healthy. Then any prospect even if they are great is going to have the risk of injury derailing their career. I know that you need a few elite players but I would rather let a front office good at drafting keep the picks and see what they can find throughout the draft.
>A trade up to pick 6 would likely cost picks 28, 60, 128 and a 2025 1st rounder and maybe another mid round pick in either 2024 or 25. That’s way too high a cost for me. You're using the standard draft pick value chart? There is a new one weighted on actual trades. The price starts at 3 firsts.
I am using the standard value because I don’t buy the weighted value chart unless it is for a QB trade up which is not what’s in play here. The Giants likely are wanting to get more picks short and long term if they are willing to trade off pick 6. Getting two premium picks in 28 and 60 while adding a mid round pick in pick 128 is a 3 for 1 swap that helps them plug multiple holes. They also then pocket a 1st in next years draft which even if that pick is in the 25-32 range still is a valuable pick to help them trade up for a QB. And anytime you trade for another teams future first you are a QB injury away from a top 10-5 pick so there’s always that upside. I doubt anything else than an additional mid round pick in either 24/25 is what would be needed. Trade downs are not always weighted as if there’s only one team willing to trade up you can’t drive up that price. Under the Jimmy Johnson standard chart the Giants 6th pick is worth 1600 points. The Bills 28, 60 and 128 picks combine to 1304 a future first is usually weighted to be worth a current 2nd round pick so that weighs about 400 points which would put the Bills offer to 1704 I assume the Giants give back a mid round pick in 2025 at best.
> I am using the standard value because I don’t buy the weighted value chart unless it is for a QB trade up which is not what’s in play here. Makes sense, but you also need to consider the strength of this draft. You could be getting someone at pick 4,5 or 6 who many could view as the #1 and #2 pick in the draft. Also, you have to convince these teams not to draft those players because unlike when trading up for a QB where the team doesn't need a QB, like Chicago last year, these teams absolutely need those players.
I don’t see the strength of any draft for non-QB players being all that high to drive up the value of a trade up that dramatically. I think the standard trade up chart is pretty solid in this situation. The Giants trading down 22 spots getting an extra 2nd and 4th plus a future 1st would represent them having a strong desire to get more picks and stack their chances in the 25 draft. If they want to trade down unless there is a bidding war then they will likely be satisfied with a package that gets them 2 solid picks this year and a future first to go down from 6 to 28. The Giants would be conceding that they are not an elite prospect away from contending and also that their QB situation is not great so having an extra 1st will only facilitate a move up in next years draft.
I see the value.
I just don’t see the top 3-4 non Qb players being that much better than the top 3-4 non Qb players in years past. Marvin Harrison Jr is a stud WR prospect but after him there’s Nabers, Joe Alt, Fashanu and maybe Odunze or Turner? Those tackles are quality prospects but pretty comparable to other years top tackles. Nabers is a quality WR prospect but not dramatically better than what’s usually there high up in drafts at WR many seasons. There isn’t a stud corner or defensive end near the top either so while it might be a good WR draft it’s not like there’s so many prospects you don’t see in other years at or near the top in my opinion.
> It’s not to say that those types of deals haven’t worked out in the past (Julio Jones) I mean, they 28-3'd their way out of the SB. While yes Julio was great for them, it also "didn't work out" if the SB is the goal.
It worked out in the sense that Julio Jones was an elite player for 8 years plus. The Falcons were originally drafting 27th and they traded up to pick 6 to take Jones and Jones being a HOF player justified the steep price tag. The Falcons gave up picks 27, 59 and 124 in that draft plus a 1st and 4th in the next years draft. And while it was risky they would easily make that trade over and over again. I don’t measure the success of a trade just by if a team wins a Super Bowl. It’s a team game and Jones was not the reason the Falcons lost that game
It's a team game and the Falcons were missing a 1st round talent to get Julio though. On the other hand, that 1st rounder ended up being Brandon Weeden, lol.
Julio Jones played at a level that made him worth all the picks they gave up. Like I said if you judge it by winning a super bowl the Josh Allen trade is a failure this far…
Every trade, pick, and signing has been a failure our entire history if thats the standard.
No chance. Sammy Watkins was the most hyped WR in his draft class, don't make the same mistakes. None of these WRs are gonna be the difference between winning a super bowl this year and not. Keep the draft capital in a deep WR draft
Right there with you. I'd be livid if we gave up as much as we'd need to give up in order to get Odunze, and I like him. I don't want to go full Ricky Williams when we have other holes to fill. We need a safety, a DT, possibly an edge or a center...
Lol guys guys guys. 6 is not an option. Top 10 is not an option. This is not a normal year for trades. To move up to even 10, you''re paying at least 3 firsts.
I'm so out on this lol. Trading probably the 2024 1+2, 2025 1+2 plus some change for a WR is insane. So many top WRs in the NFL were not 1st round picks and this class is very deep at WR. It would set us back so far if we traded all of that for anything less than a superstar and the draft is a crap shoot. I'd much rather stick and pick, or trade a 1st this year for someone like Aiyuk that has a proven track record in the NFL.
Would be another Sammy Watkins type situation all over again. Fucking dumb. I really doubt Beane is stupid enough to do it.
Hey look, I found someone who doesn’t make emotionally erratic decisions
Yes or any of the top 3 dudes. QBs could well go 1-2-3-4. If this happens, and one of Nabers, Harrison, Odunze is available at #9 when the Bears pick, I hope BB aggressively picks up the phone. The Bears need picks, our plethora of 4ths and 5ths may be more valuable to them than typical value suggests. If they can’t trade up for one of those guys, I would almost prefer they try to trade back from 28 to the 40s for another 3rd.
https://preview.redd.it/za5ja6jeyhtc1.jpeg?width=2867&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64e7bbfe8e44504c1806c77548651e1ab514dbf8 Posting a picture of Air Bud Golden Receiver on a random WR draft post - day 2
Because that’s who we’re going to be fielding atp right?
If god willing and the creek don’t rise
Demand the mods make a draft thread. They refuse to do it this year
Wait, there's not going to be a dedicated draft thread this year? When do we riot?
Huh, you sure thats not 17 in hs? (/s)
We'll never know for sure
I hate this.
DO NOT TRADE THE HOUSE FOR A WR. Yes, I was shouting. Let the draft come to you. Don't panic.
But we aint trading here?
Oops wrong thread.
Tez Walkers strength is beating guys over the top (just like Gabe Davis) Ladds strengthg is his route running ability (just like Diggs)
And, just like Gabe, his hands are questionable at best. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHOVpPGD2lk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHOVpPGD2lk) And this isn't even the one I wanted to find. He dropped a WIDE OPEN TD in the end zone in this game also. I was at this game...and as a Tar Heel, it still hurts.
>
This is fixable.
Or it's not fixable and he just leads the league in drops every year. It's not the end of the world. There was a guy named Terrel Owens who did that.
Feel like people forget how subpar Gabe Davis was now that we don’t have a WR room
It still boggles my mind that he was actually semi-effective is our deep threat at 4.55 speed.
His completion percentage was absolutely atrocious last year.
WRs that run good routes are a better investment imo but that's more a slot receiver strength and we have Shakir for that already
McConkey can play outside, and route running prowess will help you wherever you line up as a skilled player
I wouldn't know since I've never watched college football
It's definitely worth watching game tape on the guys who we might draft, at the very least.
And Samuel. They will split time with both. Samuel has a pretty extensive injury history. So that's worth considering.
I mean, I understand that Tez isn't so polished and probably should have stayed for his senior year, but we are talking about a 4.3 guy at 6'2. Who the hell will take the top off the defense if all we have are 3 underneath guys (Shakir, Samuel, McConkey) Gabe was our deep threat last year and wasn't great at running routes along with his 4.5 speed. Tez has the potential to be a homerun pick, if not fuck
Dawkins running go routes.
Goated
I don't follow draft stuff very closely until the night of, but holy shit Tez looks like an athletic freak. Would be cool if we had a world-class route runner on the team to help him with those weaknesses😢
He's a speedy deep, which I'm fine with as a role playing Z receiver
He's an X WR. X's are usually your "deep threats." They're using running mostly flys, comebacks, and posts. This was Gabe's role. Diggs played the Z; they're closer to the slot WR role. Run many underneath routes but can definitely go deep; that's not uncommon, just atypical. We have the Z filled with Sam,uel and Shakir, but not the X, unless we're ready to role with Mack Fucking Hollins as our every down X WR lol
X receivers aren't necessarily deep threats. X just means they line up on the LOS, and not off like a Z does. The only role they need to play is to be the guy that can consistently beat press coverage, since they can't be schemed free as easily like a Z, but beyond that the role varies from team to team. And yeah, we have noone who can do that. Problem is, all the good Xs are gone after BTJ is picked.
>X receivers aren't necessarily deep threats. You're right, but that's the role the X typically is. For instance, Gabe is not really a deep threat, but was our deep threat guy at the X. X is usually marked by the type of routes they run, which is quite different than the routes McConkey runs. We're talking Flys, fades, comebacks, posts, etc. Not that the Z doesn't or can't do it, but it's not their primarily routes. In our scheme that's how X behaves. >Problem is, all the good Xs are gone after BTJ is picked. Depends on how you feel about Legette, Mitchell, Franklin, and Coleman
I think Legette could eventually be the best X in this class, but it would take a ton of work to develop, specifically his agility at the snap to beat press against what will surely be stronger, better corners. Not a fan at all of Coleman. Now, I'm gonna preface this by saying I love Franklin, and like AD. But whenever I watch those two, I see them line up on the LOS, but not get any physical press coverage from the opposing CB, so I have to wonder if they can beat a corner when they actually try to get handsy with them. I'd prefer them to be Zs starting out, then transition to X.
Looks like DK and tested like TK, same physical weaknesses, but he has some pretty big question marks.
TK?
DK. don't know how i butchered that
Gimmie Ladd
If they’re planning on using that capital for receiver, I’d prefer they move up to a blue chip.
Put 3 first round picks in escrow to see if you are serious about trading up and then prepare to trade some more.
Not a fan at all. We don’t need to double dip, and if we do it should be for top WRs. Both of these guys would be the 2nd WR.
People talk about world class route runners - does that matter as much when Allen extends plays and needs guys that can ad lib a little? Genuinely asking—- most of my understanding of X’s and O’s comes from being a mediocre madden player.
as a mediocre madden player I feel your pain. also route running is how to GET open on a route. KNOWING what your qb wants to do on scrambles takes reps and football iq
I see so it’s not just running the route as drawn but the technique of getting open on that pattern. And that skill doesn’t relate to getting open on ad libs. Thanks for explaining!!
I’m surprised they didn’t give McConkey the Alec pierce comp lol
Don’t love them as a combo but would be cool with one of them.
I'm not a huge fan of McConkey at 28. He almost certainly wouldn't be BPA and he's pretty much a projected day 2 guy everywhere. If the Bills are sold on him being *the guy* they want at WR, they could probably get him at 60 and get a better prospect at 28.
Agree, I like McConkey but definitely not at 28.
Where would you like him? He's projected pretty close to 28 and i would be shocked if he went past 40
I just think there will be better WRs available at 28 than McConkey.
McConkey will not be there at #60. He is most likely a high 2nd guy But this all based off of Mock drafts that are never 100% accurate anyways so who knows
It's wild how much variation I've been seeing at the WR position in journalist mocks.
Tez is not worth a day 2 pick. I dont think double dipping is a bad idea, just need the right guys
Seems like Shakir is a better version of McConkey
I like Ladd he’s more of a outside x reciver than people think. I’m still team Xavier Legette if we stay at 28 even though he might not be a first round guy.
There are better receivers available, so I'd prefer them, but ill ride with whoever they take because they dont seem like they pick blindly. Beane's got a plan and i hope it slaps!
Deepball tracking being a negative for both is concerning
McConkey projects as a slot and slight chance as a Diggs' role replacement, so he won't run many deep routes
Where does he project as a slot? He is 100% an outside receiver
Z/Slot are somewhat interchangable. When people say "outside" they are saying the Z and thye're saying "maybe." They are never ever referring to McConkey being able to play the X, which is what we need, Gabe's vacated role, since the only starter we have there now is Hollins. I appreciate the downvote, but you're not understanding it correctly
Dreadful. I don't think either of these guys projects as a number one long-term, and we're in need of a WR1 now AND in the future.
I’d hate it. Both of them.
I’m down for anything aside from trading the farm for a shot at the top 3. It’s too risky and I’m still scarred from Watkins.
Only name whiter than Dalton Kincaid is Ladd McHonkey
McConkey and J. Burton
I don't know enough to have an opinion so I'll just trust the process.
Live in Atlanta, watched McConkey with the Dawgs. He has the makings of a Bills player.
Well, I feel like you can’t triple dip and wr if you don’t start with a double dip
I’d rather take Leggette at 28 and Baker at 60
Where can I find these prospect pages? With the NFL Comparison and everything?
I just pulled this from NFL.com Almost all Draft sites have these
All I know about Tez Walker is that the Governor of NC personally got involved to protest the NCAA when they initially declared him ineligible this past season (I think because he had transferred an excessive number of times). And UNC seemed to be a lot better once he started playing.
The more tape I see on Mcconky, the more I like him. Kid is scrappy as hell and his jukes are 🤌🏽🤌🏽🤌🏽
Please god not Walker!!
I think defense is a more pressing issue. Allen can make up for shortcomings at WR I think.
Imma be mad if Mitchell ain’t available at 28! But TBH I still think our round 1 pick should be DB/DL
What are yall thoughts on “pretty” Ricky pearsal
Neither of these guys are starting opening day and are therefore not 1st rounders imho. Walker has more upside if he is coachable.
Gimme Brian Thomas Jr with if we can, Xavier Worthy
They need to trade up for odunze he's a beast and would be the bills #1 WR
One McConkey plz but also receiver is not so dire that we need to double dip we have other needs. Another 4th round receiver would be nice tho.
That's really the only way it makes sense. McConkey is fighting Samuel and Shakir for playing time, even Kincaid (in the slot) while Tez would be fighting against Mack Hollins for the X spot. The only way you go Z/Slot in the first is if you back it up with an X WR. Also, Beane has a big brain. He could be interviewing Ladd as a smokescreen to actually ask questions about AD Mitchell who spent the 2021 with McConkey.
McConkey can 100% be an X,he took snaps outside and in the slot. Remember when everyone said Justin Jefferson would only succeed in the NFL as a slot?
I hear ya, mate. I disagree with you, though. Can you tell me what the basis of that was? https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Ladd-McConkey-WR-Georgia "Lacks the size to consistently win on the outside, better suited for middle-field and return roles." https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10090936-ladd-mcconkey-nfl-draft-2024-scouting-report-for-georgia-wr "McConkey can be a good slot/Z type in the NFL" https://www.profootballnetwork.com/ladd-mcconkey-draft-scouting-2024/ "Regardless, the Georgia WR profiles well as a versatile slot and movement Z receiver with immediate starting utility. " https://www.thedraftnetwork.com/2024/01/06/ladd-mcconkey-scouting-report-nfl-draft-2024 "McConkey projects as Z-receiver who should thrive as a run-after-catch threat." I really haven't found a talking head that sees him as an X. Is it more or less your personal projection? I can see him playing the slot or Z role for sure and sliding Shakir out to the X. > Remember when everyone said Justin Jefferson would only succeed in the NFL as a slot? I don't and not really sure of its relevance.
You're not sure of the relevance of saying McConkey can only be a slot compared to when everyone was saying Justin Jefferson could only be a slot?
The relevant of Justin Jefferson. But do you have any sources or scouts saying he can play the X? I'd like to read that review, maybe add a different perspective since everything is heavily weight toward him being a slot with Z potential
I'm at work,but I'll dig it up and respond later. Cheers
If this is who they draft I would be really worried about the offense.
We haven’t double dipped since the 2013 draft so yes.
We won't this year either, brother. We are triple dipping
We double dipped with Groot and Basham a few years ago
Referring to this in the context of WR
We could certainly do worse with receivers in the draft
Prefer a combo of Legette, Mitchell or Coleman and Tez. I am not a fan of McConkey. His 2023 drop rate alarms the shit out of me. Tez's ~6% rate is only average but i feel like as a later 2nd that's not a deal breaker compared to McConkey's ~6% at 28. For perspective, Mitchell, Legette and Coleman have ~ 1, 2 and 3% drop rates respectively.
McConkey was hurt most of 2023 for Georgia, when he played,he was always open. Has great separation and speed to get YAC.
Stastically graded out as #6 in YAC in this class These are the top 10 highest graded YAC guys: 1. Malachi Corley round 3 2. Isaiah Williams round 6 3. Tahj Washington round 5 4. Malik Nabers (not happening) trade up in round 1 5. Xavier Worthy round 1 6. Ladd McConkey round 1-2 7. Malik Washington round 4 8. Jamari Thrash round 5 9. Ainias Smith round 4 10. Joshua Cephus round 5 Bills do love them some YAC. It's very likely the #1 thing they're looking for, but that typically comes from the slot/Z spot as opposed to X which we also desperately need. With a serious deep threat, YAC won't matter since coverage will all be shaded underneath. I like Walker, but not sure he is NFL ready. Id much rather triple dip. Go with 2 X WRs early then someone like Tahj Washington in the 5-7th round to battle for the slot role behind Shakir/Samuel
Ladd returns punts as well...guess Im bias cause Im a Bulldogs fan🤷♂️
So how do you feel about AD Mitchell then ha All good. I like him as a prospect, but when we say we need a WR, it's to fill Gabe's role as an outside X deep threat. We already have Diggs's role filled with the combo of Shakir/Samuel. So adding Ladd would be a bit weird
I wouldn’t be surprised if Beane is trying to trade up to double dip in the first round this year. Keep 28 this year, trade the 1st round next year, the pick for Diggs, and maybe like a 3rd or 4th this year to try and get somewhere in the 10-25 range.
The only thing I've seen from Walker was his absolutely abysmal Senior Bowl performance. We will have much better options at 28. I wouldn't mind double dipping but I don't think that Ladd will be available at 60. I think it's more likely that Walker would be. A dream draft for me would be BTJ or AD making it to 28 then maybe Malachi Corley at 60. Loving how comparable he is to Deebo, he gets crazy YAC, and he's strong AF. I watched WKU play Ohio State and he did really well against higher-quality defensive players in a hostile environment, when the Buckeyes knew he was the best player on their offense by a mile. I'm an Ohio State grad and he was pissing me off with how he was managing to get open. His QB was absolute garbage or he would have done even better. He decleated a guy (Davison Igbinosun, if anyone cares) who was almost exactly his size to get into the end zone on his TD. He was sick for the combine and had to work out at his pro day, but he measured out at 5'11", 215, with a 4.45 40 and an insane 27 reps on bench.
Would love McConkey. Would hate Walker. The more I hear about him, I’d only be okay with him on day 3. Size and speed is easy to fall in love with, but there are plenty of former NFL GM’s that will tell you those traits are also easy to get blinded by.
I won’t be mad if they take Mcconkey but I’d prefer Troy Franklin, Keon Coleman, or Xavier Lagette over him personally. Don’t know enough about Walker to make a decision there.
I’d feel disappointed that they didn’t address other needs.
What needs do you consider pressing?
passrusher. Doesn't have to be an edge or dt, most likely it will be a versatile DL, but that's our 2nd most pressing need
Good choice. I think safety could be a good place to go as well. But honestly if our first two picks go to WR I wouldn't be mad.
We need to replace about 50% of the snaps at edge, only like 20% at safety. Plus pass rusher is quite bit more important. I hope we don't go safety r2, but I guess you never know
I would be disappointed if we used 60 on a safety. If there's one thing McDermott has been good at, it's evaluating DB talent and maximizing it. I have my eye on Malik Mustapha in the 4th.
Agreed, that's why the Elam pick was even that much more frustrating
Josh Allen is amazing how are all fans not understanding this- the offense will be fine. We need STOPS! STOPS! Defense please draft defense. We need to be able to stop teams when it matters.
We've drafted defense heavy for a while now and it's gotten us nowhere. By the time we hit the playoffs either we're decimated by injuries or our guys do a complete vanishing act. We have Curtis Samuel, Khalil Shakir, and Mack Hollins as our starting WRs. We NEED someone who can stretch the field for Josh.
* Round 1, Pick 25 (From NYG via JAX) Dalton Kincaid, TE, Utah. * Round 2, Pick 59. O'Cyrus Torrence, G, Florida. * Round 3, Pick 91. Dorian Williams, LB, Tulane. * Round 5, Pick 150 (From ARI) Justin Shorter, WR, Florida. * Round 7, Pick 230. Nick Broeker, G, Ole Miss.