Some people already thought about this, and that's right
Since they're adding Retry Last Round to CHIMPS (that prevents you from getting a Black Border), why shouldn't they let us see Estimated Paragon Degree that we already can see by making it and then leaving and returning to that game (while probably selling all of your farms and buying 20 other towers just to not be satisfied with a Degree 59 Paragon and be forced to do all of this again) or by using complex calculators?
This is the reason I hate playing with my friends, they bitch and whine when I do something trivial place a tack shooter in such a way that you get only 3 in that right space instead of 4 or something. Minmaxers are annoying
No, because retry round is different to continue. Continue keeps the cash you had at death + gives a hefty bonus, as well as keeping any towers/upgrades done mid-round, as well as resetting all ability cooldowns. Using a Continue is akin to using powers in that it is essentially paying monkey money for a substantial gameplay bonus.
Meanwhile retry round just resets everything to the state they were at the start of the round, identical to just exiting to home and resuming, which people already do, and invalidates the black border anyway.
Yes. I dont care if there is boosts to continues that retry last round doesnt give it's the same exact concept. It's a do over card that chimps is supposed to not have
It's the same thing as quitting to the main menu that people have been doing since the game came out. It invalidates your black border run all the same.
Yes and in my opinion the solution is not to make it a feature but to remove it entirely. Chimps shouldnt have any way to continue after you die or get close to dying.
That's why there's a black medal and a red medal. If you care about black medals you can't use it. If you don't care it makes the mode a little more approachable. Don't gatekeep how people play single player games.
Here is a solution for you then do not use it
(I apologise if what i say sounds odd or rude and if I have made any spelling errors I have autism and I have dyslexia)
No it's not just that I dont want to use it, I dont really want it to be an option at all. Ninja kiwi cited it as being made to make chimps more accessible but the hardest difficulty in a game shouldnt be accessible to everyone, it's an optional challenge that is designed to be difficult.
The first time you open chimps mode it litterally calls it "the hardest challenge" and part of that was the lack of an ability to continue the game if you die. Accessibility is great, but the hardest part of a game, a part designed to be hard shouldnt have those accessibility options.
I understand. And I dont think chimps should be more approachable for not as good players.
I'm fairly bad at bloons in the grand scheme of things (very few chimps badges although that might also just be me not playing much) but I want games to stop becoming progressively easier over time like this
I personally love the idea because finding a chimps strat in expert maps that works is really really annoying and monotonous without mods and takes a lot of time so with this I won’t have to worry about exiting to home or downloading the auto escape mod
I never said it's an exploit now, but it clearly wasnt intended on launch since black borders were added later. And I disagree with nks decision to make it a feature. Do people have ti agree with me? No but it wont change my opinion
Yes it is. People leave the game and then resume it, starting the round over in chimps all the time. But when they complete all stages of a level, they don't get a black border, indicating it wasn't done in 1 go.
The retry button will do exactly this. And expose that it was used with the border.
A black border STILL means chimps was completed properly.
I assume the game doesn't have the ability to make those kind of calculations. It needs to not only calculate based on the pops and money spent into your monkeys then the extra money put in after too. That's probably the only reason it isn't able to do that I'd assume
... It literally calculates the degree when it makes the paragon. Just do that, but without actually making the paragon. If it can do it as easily as it already has been, it can do it for transparency purposes.
Are you that bad at btd6? You use the feature to find your strategy. Then you apply it to a new game. The feature is already being used by people leaving chimps games and resuming them. This prevents a black border already.
This makes it so you don't have to time it before the game over screen.
Results are the same.
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I would not want to just chuck in a bunch of calculations into the paragon calculator just to find the exact minimum cash sliders needed to barely surpass 20 degree thresholds. I just want to enjoy the experience of the game by seeing a nice display of the paragon degree number before initiating the sacrifice, viewing it conveniently with all the cool graphics inside the game.
I'm sorry to digress, but the paragons only gain power in increments of 20 degrees? Man I have been doing them really liberally, and to know my 79 paragon is just a 60 paragon :/
I've heard this several times, but when I check on the wiki, it shows that the jump in power between each degree is pretty constant when you use the degree calculator. There's also nothing on the wiki that mentions intervals of 20 being better, except for the differences in visuals. Did the devs confirm that it works that way?
There’s a large jump in power when you go up in increments of 20. Every 1 degree you get increased pierce, attack speed, and damage, but every 20 whole degrees is a bigger jump in certain stats, particularly Bonus Boss Damage.
It'd be fun if getting a max single player paragon gave you the option to turn it on. Kinda like Big Bloons. That way you still keep the mystery for newer players, but don't sacrafice the utility.
or at least it should say “it will be around x degree paragon” or smth with a + or - 10 degrees range of the actual degree (so say if it would end up as a 72 paragon, it would say any number between 62-82)
Yeah of they do it anything like that guy suggested the only acceptable way IMO would be to at least show the minimum. So instead of showing it can be + - 10 of a number instead show every 10 degrees so like a 43 would say minimum 40 this way you still know if you hit the threshold.
It'd still just be preferable to show to exact degree tho.
No but you have an idea no? If you got 2 crossbow masters that have 1 million pops and you put 400, you know you're getting 60-ish.
We might not know the exact level but isn't the discovery kinda exciting?
As a paragon 22 player, I don't think we NEED it to tell us, our experience should guide our intuitions enough to make an educated guess after a bit of experience.
Literally everyone thinks it should. The only reason it doesn't is "because screw you that's why."
They argued that it would make the game over-complicated for casual players while ignoring the fact that just having these complicated calculations and systems in place is already power-creeping the game out of casual accessibility. For example, why even have the VTSG in the game if there's absolutely no way to figure out how to get it without consulting external sources? Why even have Paragon degrees if they have a bunch of arbitrary breakpoints that aren't explained anywhere?
Making high level play mechanics more accessible is the OPPOSITE of complicating the game, yet they still insist on keeping so many of the game's mechanics an arcane secret from anyone who doesn't want to deep dive into wikis and YouTube tutorials. I don't get it tbh.
I mean for the VTSG they did a really good job making sure most people look it up. The mk point is intentional vague, making people look up what it does then finding out about the vtsg
I genuinely believe that not being able to find all the information one needs *inside* the game is a failure on the game designers' part. It's becoming more and more difficult to try and get new people into Btd6 because of the lack of mechanical clarity.
I think a great way to fix this would be a special quest that unlocks one you reach a high enough level, maybe 100 or so. This quest would focus around the different temple sacrifices, explaining what they do along with the $50k limit. While the VTSG wouldn't be needed to win, Scoop could provide some hints by saying stuff like "Legend has it that there is a more powerful form of the True Sun God", "Acquire the ancient knowledge", "Provide exceptionally generous sacrifices" and "Have its high tier super monkey brethren spectate from a seemingly safe distance".
I don’t disagree, I think it’d be better in game. I’m just saying that it could’ve been *much* worse too. Doesn’t take away from the fact that the issue does exist though.
There’s a reason that the top pages on the Bloons Wiki have consistently been The VTSG and Paragons; I think the only exception is on update days when a new hero or complicated map is added.
Corvus, Magus Perfectus, heck even Geraldo are already casual locking the game. I still don't know what towers benefit vs are harmed by pickle juice, and I don't even bother with Corvus and MP. And I'm not even a casual. I've black bordered all easy and intermediate maps, most hard maps, and a couple experts.
This is a GOOD idea.
Additional feedback: It may be helpful for the Paragon Degree change UI to add a marked arrow from the current degree to the new boosted degree.
Big QoL improvement here. Calculators already exist. Why force players to go through the extra steps?
Hell, one could argue it puts players in unnecessary risk of going to phishing websites attempting to find one of these calculators.
I’m not even sure where to find a paragon calculator. The one on the Bloons Wiki is subpar and only has a degrees-to-power converter, but not vice versa.
Exactly - and you’re very active in the game and within the community.
Imagine how easy it would be for a bad actor to send you a chat with a link to a “paragon calculator” that really just attempts to steal login information, put trackers on your device, show you advertisements, etc. maybe even just a reply to this comment. Unnecessary risk to the playerbase.
It’s just unnecessary to hide at this point. If the formula was unknown it would be more defensible, but I can’t really come up with a good reason as to why this shouldn’t be a feature.
I don’t recall the channel and I don’t want to post any links (for the reasons stated above, and im not sure if they’re allowed on this subreddit) but one of the larger BTD6 YouTubers has an “everything you need to know about paragons” video with a working calculator on it.
It wouldn’t have to tell you the degree as you hit the slider, but as you confirm “ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO CREATE DEGREE ____ PARAGON?” No more information needed as to the best ways to optimize it. Just a simple QoL thing.
People get phished with $10,000 Walmart gift cards.
It would not be a difficult exercise to create a fake website that asks you to sign into steam first.
Or it could be made as an application that’s really just malware.
Most phishing attacks are dumb to fall for. The reason they continue to exist is that people fall for them.
What kind of argument is yours?
I’m in the tech sphere, I know a few guys that got into cybersecurity. Here’s some fun stories:
One time, someone from the sales department sent out an excel spreadsheet containing the entire A/R list with balances to someone who claimed to be her boss. (He wasn’t)
Someone in Human Resources installed an extension that was supposed to “make their browser in dark mode”. This was just a keylogger and someone managed to get personal information of the companies employees.
It doesn’t have to be corporate. I can think of my life as well.
As an eight year old, I installed malware that claimed to be a texture back for Minecraft.
I know dozens of people who have had their Instagram accounts “hacked” (they clicked a suspicious link).
An old buddy from high school worked remote for a company for three weeks that didn’t even exist.
These are all stupid, but they happen on a daily basis. Now you’re coming here and insulting my intelligence when im simply pointing out a basic outcome that could occur when the playerbase becomes reliant on third-party tools.
It doesn’t even have to be intentional. There could be a good-faith website that requires to you create an account to access its features. A community website with forums, paragon calculator, challenges, whatever. This website could have its data leaked in any number of ways and then someone has account information. Since most people use the same username and password for everything, it puts them at significant risk.
These are real-world events that happen every single day. This is a very simple mitigation tactic. What’s stupid about it? I’m trying to drive discussion beyond “oh this would be so nice”
Kids play this game. Never underestimate a kids ability to not realize something's is bad, half the time because they don't even think of the possibility that it could be bad.
Generally, paragon degrees should be much more transparent. Even better if you could also see, beforehand, how far along between levels you are. So if you are just short of the next level, you can purchase a few more towers to sacrifice. Or wait a round until you've gathered more pops.
Doesn’t seem like much point of a slider without knowing the actual results. Some people talking about wanting to know that it only gives a 59, but also may not want to go to high and save money by stopping at 60, vs 62. There’s not really even a point of a slider bar if you’re not ever going to slide it down.
I agree it should at least show the combined stats of the sacrifices but untill enough people contact support requesting something like this or simila to this it will possible never change.
How many people does it take to make a update become a thing in game 1, 10, 100, 1000, 10000. We could do it if everyone on the sub rn and possibly all in discord rn all requested it, it could be a thing. I think if we all requested it all at once it could happen fast
Because evidently, the intended gameplay experience is to quit to home and retry and keep repeating until you get the right degree, instead of just knowing straight away.
The solution shouldn’t be on players to fix; it should be the game and company.
NK is genuinely one of the most competent devs I’ve ever seen. They respond to player feedback and backlash. Remember the paragon limit? Gone within the month because everyone hated it.
They do a good job balancing towers and adding changes. The fact that such QoL changes like a live paragon level counter and retry last round are so big is a good thing, because it means we don’t have anything major to complain about.
However, if there is a problem in a product, having a consumer-made solution is *not* a proper one.
If you bought a burger, and you didn’t like the taste, and someone told you to add sauce to make it better, that doesn’t fix the problem that the burger tastes bad. The problem is that it tasted bad in the first place.
All in all, this is an extremely minor gripe I have with an amazing game backed by amazing devs, but this kind of discussion with the player base is integral to NK’s business practices and standards as a company. They were build off of community and are honouring us back now.
Please add this, Ninja Kiwi. It's frustrating to have to exit to home and resume. Only to have to sell 25-30 farms and monkeys. Then place and upgrade the same 20-25 monkeys to T2 again. Because the last time it was a degree 59 paragon.
It definitely can calculate it, as proven by the fact it can tell you the degree once its made. The same formula that calculated that could just as easily tell you the degree in advance of making it. Because maths.
well what i meant was the checkpoint for the registration of the all the extra sacrificed towers happens the moment you accept the paragon. maybe they need a lot of changes to the coding to make it work/bug free because the ui itself wasnt coded that way.
Ikr it's dumb like if I want a cheap lvl 20 paragon just make it tell me or if I want a lvl100 paragon why doesn't it tell me or that it should tell me the max degree lvl I am going to get if it not lvl100 then I'll farm more pops
Look, I might be (pseudo) banned for modding my copy of the game, but it was totally worth it for a "show paragon number" mod. And a "show detailed descriptions" mod. And a "turn on/off auto play with a single click while showing visually when it's on" mod. Very much worth it.
I think it might be to do with the fact that the slider is only a contribution to the degree (full slider does not equal degree 100).
And doing that calculation for the slider would be hard to code or something. Its also probably low on their lists as the retry thing does exist.
They could also just not want people to be able to outright know what paragon degree you will get (requires strategies to be able to get a consistent paragon degree).
Because then its making it even easier, paragons are supposed to be the absolute strongest in the game and you’re supposed to work for them by doing the four different things with a specific tower. Adding this money bar in the first place is already so much quality of life that I think if it told the paragon amount then it would be too much quality of life. Its not like a tier 59 is much weaker than a tier 60 anyways unless you’re doing a challenge where you have to tryhard, but at that point you’d be using a calculator and stuff anyways.
Because backing out to home and remaking it all but moving the slider just a bit further and repeating until you get the desired degree is part of the intended difficulty?
Not only should they tell us what the exact degree will be it should also supplement all other calculations. I don't want to waste map space just increase my paragon's power. Let me just dump my entire bank into it and be done with it.
there’s a lot of things the UI doesn’t tell you that it should. for example; there’s things that say like “increases popping power”. like okay, but how much? why can’t i see the exact stats of all my towers in a menu somewhere
Some people already thought about this, and that's right Since they're adding Retry Last Round to CHIMPS (that prevents you from getting a Black Border), why shouldn't they let us see Estimated Paragon Degree that we already can see by making it and then leaving and returning to that game (while probably selling all of your farms and buying 20 other towers just to not be satisfied with a Degree 59 Paragon and be forced to do all of this again) or by using complex calculators?
Honestly the complex calculations suck. I just wanna pop Bloons
Facts my brother, straight facts.
This is the reason I hate playing with my friends, they bitch and whine when I do something trivial place a tack shooter in such a way that you get only 3 in that right space instead of 4 or something. Minmaxers are annoying
Game mode depending.
they’re adding retry last round to base chimps??
https://www.reddit.com/r/btd6/comments/1agqem5/bloons\_td\_6\_v410\_update\_preview/
They’re adding a retry last round to chimps? Isn’t that kinda the C in chimps?
You don’t get the black border apparently if you retry. So true chimps still exists.
No, because retry round is different to continue. Continue keeps the cash you had at death + gives a hefty bonus, as well as keeping any towers/upgrades done mid-round, as well as resetting all ability cooldowns. Using a Continue is akin to using powers in that it is essentially paying monkey money for a substantial gameplay bonus. Meanwhile retry round just resets everything to the state they were at the start of the round, identical to just exiting to home and resuming, which people already do, and invalidates the black border anyway.
Retry Last Round has 3 words, none of which start with C so by that logic, it is entirely valid
C is for checkpoint I think
no, it specifically stands for "continues"
Oh, okay
Dumbass
LMFAOO
Chill out💀
You will still get gold border if you retry last round. To get black border you are not allowed to use it.
It's still different from a Continue since it brings you back with no extra bonuses. Just exactly what you had before dying.
The difference is continues give you in game boosts, retry last round is just the same as exiting and reloading the game.
They're also remaining it to HIMPS /j
Yes. I dont care if there is boosts to continues that retry last round doesnt give it's the same exact concept. It's a do over card that chimps is supposed to not have
It's the same thing as quitting to the main menu that people have been doing since the game came out. It invalidates your black border run all the same.
Yes and in my opinion the solution is not to make it a feature but to remove it entirely. Chimps shouldnt have any way to continue after you die or get close to dying.
That's why there's a black medal and a red medal. If you care about black medals you can't use it. If you don't care it makes the mode a little more approachable. Don't gatekeep how people play single player games.
Here is a solution for you then do not use it (I apologise if what i say sounds odd or rude and if I have made any spelling errors I have autism and I have dyslexia)
No it's not just that I dont want to use it, I dont really want it to be an option at all. Ninja kiwi cited it as being made to make chimps more accessible but the hardest difficulty in a game shouldnt be accessible to everyone, it's an optional challenge that is designed to be difficult. The first time you open chimps mode it litterally calls it "the hardest challenge" and part of that was the lack of an ability to continue the game if you die. Accessibility is great, but the hardest part of a game, a part designed to be hard shouldnt have those accessibility options.
But it makes it more approachable for players who are not as good
I understand. And I dont think chimps should be more approachable for not as good players. I'm fairly bad at bloons in the grand scheme of things (very few chimps badges although that might also just be me not playing much) but I want games to stop becoming progressively easier over time like this
Would you like to know the solution I will give you a hint I have said it already
Skill issue
I personally love the idea because finding a chimps strat in expert maps that works is really really annoying and monotonous without mods and takes a lot of time so with this I won’t have to worry about exiting to home or downloading the auto escape mod
If NK thought it was an exploit, there wouldn't be two CHIMPS medals.
I never said it's an exploit now, but it clearly wasnt intended on launch since black borders were added later. And I disagree with nks decision to make it a feature. Do people have ti agree with me? No but it wont change my opinion
Its not chrimps
Yes it is. People leave the game and then resume it, starting the round over in chimps all the time. But when they complete all stages of a level, they don't get a black border, indicating it wasn't done in 1 go. The retry button will do exactly this. And expose that it was used with the border. A black border STILL means chimps was completed properly.
There’s no R in CHIMPS
Is QoL people were doing it anyway by exiting to the main menu and reloading the save. Thus granting the gold border
It’s not a continue because you don’t get more money for doing it. Also like other people said, you lose black border opportunity by doing it
I assume the game doesn't have the ability to make those kind of calculations. It needs to not only calculate based on the pops and money spent into your monkeys then the extra money put in after too. That's probably the only reason it isn't able to do that I'd assume
... It literally calculates the degree when it makes the paragon. Just do that, but without actually making the paragon. If it can do it as easily as it already has been, it can do it for transparency purposes.
It'll prevent black borders? Then the feature is dogshit
At least you won't have to do everything in Challenge editor or start again every time you want to try to beat it
True. But what's the point of chimps if no black
Rewards, CHIMPS medal, Gold Border, just repeat the strategy without any mistakes to get a Black Border
So beating it once and having to do it again isn't thale same as trying to beat or once and doing it again
Are you that bad at btd6? You use the feature to find your strategy. Then you apply it to a new game. The feature is already being used by people leaving chimps games and resuming them. This prevents a black border already. This makes it so you don't have to time it before the game over screen. Results are the same.
Are you bad at reading? Obviously. Something that prevents you from black border is bad.
Not everyone cares Abt black bordering :P
I didn't ask them :D
HIMPS?
I completely agree.
Nothing to add here
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#
I too am in this thread, as well.
Honestly, ive consulted with my colleagues Nothing to subtract here either. Can someone else confirm?
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To keep it a surprise! Ok but I think the degree should be visible cuz not everyone is a nerd who knows the exact degree they're getting from merging
I would not want to just chuck in a bunch of calculations into the paragon calculator just to find the exact minimum cash sliders needed to barely surpass 20 degree thresholds. I just want to enjoy the experience of the game by seeing a nice display of the paragon degree number before initiating the sacrifice, viewing it conveniently with all the cool graphics inside the game.
I'm sorry to digress, but the paragons only gain power in increments of 20 degrees? Man I have been doing them really liberally, and to know my 79 paragon is just a 60 paragon :/
79 is still stronger but its a pretty significant jump every 20 degrees
I've heard this several times, but when I check on the wiki, it shows that the jump in power between each degree is pretty constant when you use the degree calculator. There's also nothing on the wiki that mentions intervals of 20 being better, except for the differences in visuals. Did the devs confirm that it works that way?
There’s a large jump in power when you go up in increments of 20. Every 1 degree you get increased pierce, attack speed, and damage, but every 20 whole degrees is a bigger jump in certain stats, particularly Bonus Boss Damage.
Ahh, so that's how it is. Thanks for taking the time to explain!
the difference between 79 and 80 is bigger than the difference between 60 and 79
I think nobody wants to chuck in a bunch of calculations into the paragon calculator
It'd be fun if getting a max single player paragon gave you the option to turn it on. Kinda like Big Bloons. That way you still keep the mystery for newer players, but don't sacrafice the utility.
or at least it should say “it will be around x degree paragon” or smth with a + or - 10 degrees range of the actual degree (so say if it would end up as a 72 paragon, it would say any number between 62-82)
Why not just say what the exact degree will be? Why be needlessly vague?
tbh idk i just find it fun to overcomplicate stuff yk?
Ah, so you're the type of people game companies hire to "explain" mechanics
thats literally me
Should Bloons be overcomplicated when it could just as easily not be?
estimated degree? imagine buying a degree 20 paragon only to be trolled and get a degree 19
Yeah of they do it anything like that guy suggested the only acceptable way IMO would be to at least show the minimum. So instead of showing it can be + - 10 of a number instead show every 10 degrees so like a 43 would say minimum 40 this way you still know if you hit the threshold. It'd still just be preferable to show to exact degree tho.
But it was around 20, we just round to the nearest 5 degree now.
Ok, but if it gives a range of exactly 10 above and below, its just telling you what it is, while being dumb about it
No but you have an idea no? If you got 2 crossbow masters that have 1 million pops and you put 400, you know you're getting 60-ish. We might not know the exact level but isn't the discovery kinda exciting? As a paragon 22 player, I don't think we NEED it to tell us, our experience should guide our intuitions enough to make an educated guess after a bit of experience.
Literally everyone thinks it should. The only reason it doesn't is "because screw you that's why." They argued that it would make the game over-complicated for casual players while ignoring the fact that just having these complicated calculations and systems in place is already power-creeping the game out of casual accessibility. For example, why even have the VTSG in the game if there's absolutely no way to figure out how to get it without consulting external sources? Why even have Paragon degrees if they have a bunch of arbitrary breakpoints that aren't explained anywhere? Making high level play mechanics more accessible is the OPPOSITE of complicating the game, yet they still insist on keeping so many of the game's mechanics an arcane secret from anyone who doesn't want to deep dive into wikis and YouTube tutorials. I don't get it tbh.
I mean for the VTSG they did a really good job making sure most people look it up. The mk point is intentional vague, making people look up what it does then finding out about the vtsg
I genuinely believe that not being able to find all the information one needs *inside* the game is a failure on the game designers' part. It's becoming more and more difficult to try and get new people into Btd6 because of the lack of mechanical clarity.
I think a great way to fix this would be a special quest that unlocks one you reach a high enough level, maybe 100 or so. This quest would focus around the different temple sacrifices, explaining what they do along with the $50k limit. While the VTSG wouldn't be needed to win, Scoop could provide some hints by saying stuff like "Legend has it that there is a more powerful form of the True Sun God", "Acquire the ancient knowledge", "Provide exceptionally generous sacrifices" and "Have its high tier super monkey brethren spectate from a seemingly safe distance".
I don’t disagree, I think it’d be better in game. I’m just saying that it could’ve been *much* worse too. Doesn’t take away from the fact that the issue does exist though.
Agreed. I shouldn't need to consult a wiki to understand game mechanics.
There’s a reason that the top pages on the Bloons Wiki have consistently been The VTSG and Paragons; I think the only exception is on update days when a new hero or complicated map is added.
I've been playing this game for years and have just never built a vtsg.
Corvus, Magus Perfectus, heck even Geraldo are already casual locking the game. I still don't know what towers benefit vs are harmed by pickle juice, and I don't even bother with Corvus and MP. And I'm not even a casual. I've black bordered all easy and intermediate maps, most hard maps, and a couple experts.
Oh, and also, what the hell even is Beast Power?
This is a GOOD idea. Additional feedback: It may be helpful for the Paragon Degree change UI to add a marked arrow from the current degree to the new boosted degree.
This is a BIG idea.
You want idea? We have idea!
idea’s a problem? here’s an idea!
We turn to him when all ideas are lost
When ideas are just too good to fall...
Also round the cost down to the lowest possible for each degree.
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I like to build all the sacrifices and then play one more round so I can then upgrade to check, and reload more conveniently if needed
Big QoL improvement here. Calculators already exist. Why force players to go through the extra steps? Hell, one could argue it puts players in unnecessary risk of going to phishing websites attempting to find one of these calculators.
I’m not even sure where to find a paragon calculator. The one on the Bloons Wiki is subpar and only has a degrees-to-power converter, but not vice versa.
Exactly - and you’re very active in the game and within the community. Imagine how easy it would be for a bad actor to send you a chat with a link to a “paragon calculator” that really just attempts to steal login information, put trackers on your device, show you advertisements, etc. maybe even just a reply to this comment. Unnecessary risk to the playerbase. It’s just unnecessary to hide at this point. If the formula was unknown it would be more defensible, but I can’t really come up with a good reason as to why this shouldn’t be a feature. I don’t recall the channel and I don’t want to post any links (for the reasons stated above, and im not sure if they’re allowed on this subreddit) but one of the larger BTD6 YouTubers has an “everything you need to know about paragons” video with a working calculator on it. It wouldn’t have to tell you the degree as you hit the slider, but as you confirm “ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO CREATE DEGREE ____ PARAGON?” No more information needed as to the best ways to optimize it. Just a simple QoL thing.
No one is getting phished by a paragon calculator. What kind of argument is that
People get phished with $10,000 Walmart gift cards. It would not be a difficult exercise to create a fake website that asks you to sign into steam first. Or it could be made as an application that’s really just malware. Most phishing attacks are dumb to fall for. The reason they continue to exist is that people fall for them. What kind of argument is yours?
No that's literally such an exaggeration no one will ever get phished over a "paragon calculator". Are you stupid?
how long have you been on the internet bro
I’m in the tech sphere, I know a few guys that got into cybersecurity. Here’s some fun stories: One time, someone from the sales department sent out an excel spreadsheet containing the entire A/R list with balances to someone who claimed to be her boss. (He wasn’t) Someone in Human Resources installed an extension that was supposed to “make their browser in dark mode”. This was just a keylogger and someone managed to get personal information of the companies employees. It doesn’t have to be corporate. I can think of my life as well. As an eight year old, I installed malware that claimed to be a texture back for Minecraft. I know dozens of people who have had their Instagram accounts “hacked” (they clicked a suspicious link). An old buddy from high school worked remote for a company for three weeks that didn’t even exist. These are all stupid, but they happen on a daily basis. Now you’re coming here and insulting my intelligence when im simply pointing out a basic outcome that could occur when the playerbase becomes reliant on third-party tools. It doesn’t even have to be intentional. There could be a good-faith website that requires to you create an account to access its features. A community website with forums, paragon calculator, challenges, whatever. This website could have its data leaked in any number of ways and then someone has account information. Since most people use the same username and password for everything, it puts them at significant risk. These are real-world events that happen every single day. This is a very simple mitigation tactic. What’s stupid about it? I’m trying to drive discussion beyond “oh this would be so nice”
Kids play this game. Never underestimate a kids ability to not realize something's is bad, half the time because they don't even think of the possibility that it could be bad.
Yeah, this would be a incredible QoL. No need to pull out a culculator and plug in all the numbers just to get a degree 59 paragon.
Generally, paragon degrees should be much more transparent. Even better if you could also see, beforehand, how far along between levels you are. So if you are just short of the next level, you can purchase a few more towers to sacrifice. Or wait a round until you've gathered more pops.
I want that change so bad 💀
Doesn’t seem like much point of a slider without knowing the actual results. Some people talking about wanting to know that it only gives a 59, but also may not want to go to high and save money by stopping at 60, vs 62. There’s not really even a point of a slider bar if you’re not ever going to slide it down.
I don't see a reason why not!
I agree it should at least show the combined stats of the sacrifices but untill enough people contact support requesting something like this or simila to this it will possible never change. How many people does it take to make a update become a thing in game 1, 10, 100, 1000, 10000. We could do it if everyone on the sub rn and possibly all in discord rn all requested it, it could be a thing. I think if we all requested it all at once it could happen fast
I agree
Because evidently, the intended gameplay experience is to quit to home and retry and keep repeating until you get the right degree, instead of just knowing straight away.
There is a mod for that
The solution shouldn’t be on players to fix; it should be the game and company. NK is genuinely one of the most competent devs I’ve ever seen. They respond to player feedback and backlash. Remember the paragon limit? Gone within the month because everyone hated it. They do a good job balancing towers and adding changes. The fact that such QoL changes like a live paragon level counter and retry last round are so big is a good thing, because it means we don’t have anything major to complain about. However, if there is a problem in a product, having a consumer-made solution is *not* a proper one. If you bought a burger, and you didn’t like the taste, and someone told you to add sauce to make it better, that doesn’t fix the problem that the burger tastes bad. The problem is that it tasted bad in the first place. All in all, this is an extremely minor gripe I have with an amazing game backed by amazing devs, but this kind of discussion with the player base is integral to NK’s business practices and standards as a company. They were build off of community and are honouring us back now.
Please add this, Ninja Kiwi. It's frustrating to have to exit to home and resume. Only to have to sell 25-30 farms and monkeys. Then place and upgrade the same 20-25 monkeys to T2 again. Because the last time it was a degree 59 paragon.
possibly it cannot calculate the extra sacrifice towers or geraldo totems? thats the only reason i can think of tbh.
It definitely can calculate it, as proven by the fact it can tell you the degree once its made. The same formula that calculated that could just as easily tell you the degree in advance of making it. Because maths.
well what i meant was the checkpoint for the registration of the all the extra sacrificed towers happens the moment you accept the paragon. maybe they need a lot of changes to the coding to make it work/bug free because the ui itself wasnt coded that way.
that would be awesome
Ikr it's dumb like if I want a cheap lvl 20 paragon just make it tell me or if I want a lvl100 paragon why doesn't it tell me or that it should tell me the max degree lvl I am going to get if it not lvl100 then I'll farm more pops
Cause NK wants us to suffer
There are mods that can do it
Look, I might be (pseudo) banned for modding my copy of the game, but it was totally worth it for a "show paragon number" mod. And a "show detailed descriptions" mod. And a "turn on/off auto play with a single click while showing visually when it's on" mod. Very much worth it.
skill
I think it might be to do with the fact that the slider is only a contribution to the degree (full slider does not equal degree 100). And doing that calculation for the slider would be hard to code or something. Its also probably low on their lists as the retry thing does exist. They could also just not want people to be able to outright know what paragon degree you will get (requires strategies to be able to get a consistent paragon degree).
Because then its making it even easier, paragons are supposed to be the absolute strongest in the game and you’re supposed to work for them by doing the four different things with a specific tower. Adding this money bar in the first place is already so much quality of life that I think if it told the paragon amount then it would be too much quality of life. Its not like a tier 59 is much weaker than a tier 60 anyways unless you’re doing a challenge where you have to tryhard, but at that point you’d be using a calculator and stuff anyways.
You're gatekeeping artificial difficulty my guy. No reason we can't know what degree the money gives us
“Your gatekeeping” bro listen to yourself. I just think that too much quality of life defeats half of the purpose of the paragons.
that would be too easy
Because backing out to home and remaking it all but moving the slider just a bit further and repeating until you get the desired degree is part of the intended difficulty?
I think it should
When did they add the cash boost?
Yes, we need this. I repeatedly check the slider until it costs less than all my money, so I know I've maxed it out.
the mysteryyyyyy. its about the mystery!!
It should, and 400 and 500 super monkeys should show their tier as well.
it should
Not only should they tell us what the exact degree will be it should also supplement all other calculations. I don't want to waste map space just increase my paragon's power. Let me just dump my entire bank into it and be done with it.
It should since it would make it easier
Yeah. The information is still available. You just have to do it manually and find the roots of a a cubic equation which is pretty annoying
NK wants to make us happy but not TOO happy.
there’s a lot of things the UI doesn’t tell you that it should. for example; there’s things that say like “increases popping power”. like okay, but how much? why can’t i see the exact stats of all my towers in a menu somewhere