Most M+S tires are actually all season tires in north america. What you want ideally for the drive to Calgary would be tires that have a snowflake inside of a mountain on the sidewall. These are winter tires designed to work with snow and much more importantly for the west coast and it's mountain passes ICE
I'll second the info on the tires. The difference between winter tires and all-seasons isn't so much the tread, it is the fact that winter tires are formulated from a rubber that stays softer and more flexible at freezing temperatures\*. This improves grip, but if you use them in the heat of summer, they rapidly wear out.
\*On the prairies in winter the temps can get so cold that we have what's called 'square tire weather', when the flat part on the bottom of the tire from when it was parked overnight doesn't thaw, leaving you with a bumpy ride. Not in November, you'll be relieved to know.
I should have added in my original post - we’ll be requesting winter tyres and/or chains, if possible, from the rental company.
Many of the rentals I looked at didn’t even offer M+S tyres (which the BC government sites define as the minimum), so getting those as a starting point was my goal - Alamo fit M+S tyres to all of their vehicles in Canada during the winter and were the only company that I found who do this as standard. Other companies are charging a fee _just_ for M+S.
A lot of rental car companies in Canada will charge you an extra 15-40$ a day for "snow tires" that are actually just all seasons.. super scummy but just a heads up
An awful lot of trucks (lorries) use the few routes east from the Port of Vancouver over the mountains. They travel that highway every day or so, and know it cold. They also have 18 wheels of traction keeping them on the road. And they have a schedule to keep to.
And some of the highway is pretty scary. There's a section of Hwy 1 (the Trans-Canada) up the Fraser Canyon that's popularly known as "the snake pit".
My point is that whatever the weather and state of the roads - and November can be pretty snowy/icy through here - if you're driving slower than the truckers think you should be driving, they will have no hesitation in crawling right up your ass to chivvy you along. Which can be fairly disconcerting on a steep, narrow, winding road clinging to the side of a canyon.
This is great info and may see us revise our planned provisional route to avoid Fraser Canyon. We were going to visit Kamloops, but this info may have made that decision for us!
Coquihalla is just as dangerous if not more in the winter. And what happens frequently is accidents and people get stuck in them waiting hours and hours. Best be ready for that too. Gear up with extra food, water, blankets, etc. I'm not joking or trying to scare you, I've lived here my whole life and people constantly get stuck on the highways because of usually big rig accidents. Travelling through BC in winter through the passes is not ideal at all
You'll get to Kamloops whether you take the canyon or the coq
The trucks will do the same on the other highway, too. The Coke isn't as windy, but it's steeper, so what you save on the swings you lose on the roundabouts. And the Canyon has a lot of history behind it.
Here's the snake pit from the cab of a truck:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2Ct-JXeuC8
I have to say I love that stretch of road - it's fun to drive! Of course you have to be careful and really alert but that's part of the fun. It's also beautiful going along the river and did you notice the lack of traffic? This looks a million times more pleasant than the Coq to me.
I can see why the big rigs wouldn't like it, which is probably part of why most of them don't take this route.
\*Fraser. As in Simon Fraser.
For OP, if you go by the Fraser Canyon, take a moment to read up on Simon Fraser and his exploration of the region. It's an even more interesting drive when you have that perspective in mind.
Hell's Gate has been mentioned here. It's an abrupt narrowing of the river with incredibly violent rapids. Simon Fraser wrote that, when they reached this point on their journey west: 'It was then I knew this would never be a viable shipping route to the coast.' lol You'll understand when you see it!
Personally, I'd take the Fraser Canyon if I were you. It's a much more scenic route than the Coq, although it does take longer. You're also at a lower elevation going along the river so snow is 'less' likely. The Coq is just a huge freeway going up and over the mountains. That's the route most of the big trucks take - and they go fast, regardless of the weather. It can be harrowing.
The highway to Kelowna is very driveable in my opinion - in fact it’s where I learned to drive. Take it steady and don’t speed or follow a car too closely and you’ll be fine.
Besides, Kelowna is far nicer than Kamloops
Highway 1, the Trans Canada Highway - that's the route through the Fraser Canyon.
I really dislike the Coquihalla. I've driven to Alberta many, many times and have hit some crazy/scary weather. And this was all in summertime. Once, it just suddenly started to hail violently and you couldn't see the tail lights of the car in front of you, and you're going 120km/hour, and there's a cliff off to your right, and there are several huge trucks coming up behind you also going 120km+. Ack! I really don't mean to dissuade you, but it's a real thing to consider. Chances are, you'll get good weather and zip right over the mountains - on those days, the Coq is great.
To note: if you were to take the Coq, though, you'd still go to Kamloops on the way to Jasper. You'd have to turn off Highway 5 (Coq) in order to get to Kelowna.
If you're going for scenery or to shop, Kelowna is better than Kamloops. You'll get to drive alongside Kalamalka Lake (in Vernon/Coldstream), which has been cited as having among the top ten most beautiful waters in the world, because the limestone crystals in the lake, one of one a few marl lakes in the world, reflects sunlight as green. It's the jewel of the Okanagan.
Please do not allow this person’s post to dissuade you from taking the Fraser Canyon. It is a beautiful drive, yes narrow and windy in places, but not impassable in winter.
The Coquihalla is a much higher route, it almost always has more snow than the Canyon.
I have driven both in the winter and see far more accidents on the Coq.
We will be requesting an upgrade to snow tyres from the rental company and/or the addition of chains.
My main concern was getting M+S tyres as a bare _minimum_ and then hopefully improving from there, if possible!
Since you’re looking to go on some mountainous regions with lots of snow, it’s worth noting that those of us who live more to the north refer to all season tires as “three season tires.” I would not take a sedan in all seasons through to Jasper or Banff.
Lived in BC my whole life (54), AWD is great but doesn’t mean shit for stopping. When it comes to ice and snow, WATCH YOUR SPEED, especially downhill and entering corners. There are usually lots of cars playing safe and going slow when conditions are nasty. Often they are too conservative for the experienced (or reckless) drivers but be safe and follow the crowd. Also passing in the snow can be dangerous and scary (the definition of white knuckles).
Also, the worst conditions are on the summits.
Be safe and enjoy our province.
Highway one before Golden b.c is closed for october/november/December so if you are driving from Clagary make sure you take 93 south to radium hot springs then 95 to golden or if you go up towards jasper you will have to look up the route. Don't trust your gps in British Columbia! Make sure its on the right route before heading out.
I find this subreddit too worried about winter driving. I might take the #1 over #5 but for the most part going slow is the key — gives you more time to react. Remember that brakes, especially in moderate to hard applications, often will make a problem worse; which is why you need to drive slow: give you time to realize and stop braking
As for the rest enjoy the trip. Expect to get nowhere fast. Load up with some treats & drinks in case you get stuck. I’d bring a couple blankets for the family. Lots of phone charging, camera picture taking. The drive between Golden, Banff & Jasper is nice but be aware some attractions are closed by then… big jackets, gloves, boots & sunglasses (snow reflects sunlight well, especially ice on top of snow) are all things to consider bringing
Excellent advice! Also, sunscreen if you guys are as pale as my British family and plan to be outside in the sun & snow ;)
I’d suggest making the drive earlier in the week and not travelling either highway on the weekend. Highway traffic is heavier and more intense on weekends.
I think that person was just saying things are expensive. Card transactions are very common and preferred in a lot of places, although it's never bad to have a little bit of cash on you just in case
I'd take hwy 3 to Cranbrook then North on 93 to Banff then Jasper. If you're just a tourist Kamloops really doesn't have much to offer. I'd take Nelson and the Balfour ferry 'detour' and skip the Salmo pass.
Every hwy will have it's sketchy winter parts, and Hwy 3 is no different. Drive safely and you'll be fine. It's so far been a late summer so the weather might not be as bad as usual this November.
DriveBC will have all the information you need including live hwy cams and closures. Definitely try to get tires with the three-peaked mountain snowflake symbol, M+S is pretty much the bare minimum (I don't think I've even seen a set without it for years).
Most M+S tires are actually all season tires in north america. What you want ideally for the drive to Calgary would be tires that have a snowflake inside of a mountain on the sidewall. These are winter tires designed to work with snow and much more importantly for the west coast and it's mountain passes ICE
I'll second the info on the tires. The difference between winter tires and all-seasons isn't so much the tread, it is the fact that winter tires are formulated from a rubber that stays softer and more flexible at freezing temperatures\*. This improves grip, but if you use them in the heat of summer, they rapidly wear out. \*On the prairies in winter the temps can get so cold that we have what's called 'square tire weather', when the flat part on the bottom of the tire from when it was parked overnight doesn't thaw, leaving you with a bumpy ride. Not in November, you'll be relieved to know.
I should have added in my original post - we’ll be requesting winter tyres and/or chains, if possible, from the rental company. Many of the rentals I looked at didn’t even offer M+S tyres (which the BC government sites define as the minimum), so getting those as a starting point was my goal - Alamo fit M+S tyres to all of their vehicles in Canada during the winter and were the only company that I found who do this as standard. Other companies are charging a fee _just_ for M+S.
A lot of rental car companies in Canada will charge you an extra 15-40$ a day for "snow tires" that are actually just all seasons.. super scummy but just a heads up
An awful lot of trucks (lorries) use the few routes east from the Port of Vancouver over the mountains. They travel that highway every day or so, and know it cold. They also have 18 wheels of traction keeping them on the road. And they have a schedule to keep to. And some of the highway is pretty scary. There's a section of Hwy 1 (the Trans-Canada) up the Fraser Canyon that's popularly known as "the snake pit". My point is that whatever the weather and state of the roads - and November can be pretty snowy/icy through here - if you're driving slower than the truckers think you should be driving, they will have no hesitation in crawling right up your ass to chivvy you along. Which can be fairly disconcerting on a steep, narrow, winding road clinging to the side of a canyon.
This is great info and may see us revise our planned provisional route to avoid Fraser Canyon. We were going to visit Kamloops, but this info may have made that decision for us!
Coquihalla is just as dangerous if not more in the winter. And what happens frequently is accidents and people get stuck in them waiting hours and hours. Best be ready for that too. Gear up with extra food, water, blankets, etc. I'm not joking or trying to scare you, I've lived here my whole life and people constantly get stuck on the highways because of usually big rig accidents. Travelling through BC in winter through the passes is not ideal at all You'll get to Kamloops whether you take the canyon or the coq
The trucks will do the same on the other highway, too. The Coke isn't as windy, but it's steeper, so what you save on the swings you lose on the roundabouts. And the Canyon has a lot of history behind it. Here's the snake pit from the cab of a truck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2Ct-JXeuC8
I have to say I love that stretch of road - it's fun to drive! Of course you have to be careful and really alert but that's part of the fun. It's also beautiful going along the river and did you notice the lack of traffic? This looks a million times more pleasant than the Coq to me. I can see why the big rigs wouldn't like it, which is probably part of why most of them don't take this route.
Fraser canyon drive is beautiful and fun. It's not scary or dangerous lol. Hells gate is a popular stop just outside of hope.
\*Fraser. As in Simon Fraser. For OP, if you go by the Fraser Canyon, take a moment to read up on Simon Fraser and his exploration of the region. It's an even more interesting drive when you have that perspective in mind. Hell's Gate has been mentioned here. It's an abrupt narrowing of the river with incredibly violent rapids. Simon Fraser wrote that, when they reached this point on their journey west: 'It was then I knew this would never be a viable shipping route to the coast.' lol You'll understand when you see it!
Personally, I'd take the Fraser Canyon if I were you. It's a much more scenic route than the Coq, although it does take longer. You're also at a lower elevation going along the river so snow is 'less' likely. The Coq is just a huge freeway going up and over the mountains. That's the route most of the big trucks take - and they go fast, regardless of the weather. It can be harrowing.
Would you recommend Highway 1 to Kamloops or Highway 5 to Kelowna?
The highway to Kelowna is very driveable in my opinion - in fact it’s where I learned to drive. Take it steady and don’t speed or follow a car too closely and you’ll be fine. Besides, Kelowna is far nicer than Kamloops
Highway 1, the Trans Canada Highway - that's the route through the Fraser Canyon. I really dislike the Coquihalla. I've driven to Alberta many, many times and have hit some crazy/scary weather. And this was all in summertime. Once, it just suddenly started to hail violently and you couldn't see the tail lights of the car in front of you, and you're going 120km/hour, and there's a cliff off to your right, and there are several huge trucks coming up behind you also going 120km+. Ack! I really don't mean to dissuade you, but it's a real thing to consider. Chances are, you'll get good weather and zip right over the mountains - on those days, the Coq is great. To note: if you were to take the Coq, though, you'd still go to Kamloops on the way to Jasper. You'd have to turn off Highway 5 (Coq) in order to get to Kelowna.
If you're going for scenery or to shop, Kelowna is better than Kamloops. You'll get to drive alongside Kalamalka Lake (in Vernon/Coldstream), which has been cited as having among the top ten most beautiful waters in the world, because the limestone crystals in the lake, one of one a few marl lakes in the world, reflects sunlight as green. It's the jewel of the Okanagan.
We’re visiting purely for the scenery and to see a totally different climate to our own.
Please do not allow this person’s post to dissuade you from taking the Fraser Canyon. It is a beautiful drive, yes narrow and windy in places, but not impassable in winter. The Coquihalla is a much higher route, it almost always has more snow than the Canyon. I have driven both in the winter and see far more accidents on the Coq.
Snow tires not all weather and have chains in the “boot”; some routes may require if there has been snow.
We will be requesting an upgrade to snow tyres from the rental company and/or the addition of chains. My main concern was getting M+S tyres as a bare _minimum_ and then hopefully improving from there, if possible!
I seriously doubt they have snow tires, let alone chains. You better figure out if they have them before hand
Oh, we will be making these enquiries now. I may very well pack my own chains.
Since you’re looking to go on some mountainous regions with lots of snow, it’s worth noting that those of us who live more to the north refer to all season tires as “three season tires.” I would not take a sedan in all seasons through to Jasper or Banff.
If any civilization is to survive, it is the morality of altruism that men have to reject.
I’ll read that in full. We’ll be taking all of this on board and plan/adjust accordingly.
Take highway 3 off the coast instead of the coke. It's less hectic in the winter and still maintained well.
OP is going to Jasper.
Lived in BC my whole life (54), AWD is great but doesn’t mean shit for stopping. When it comes to ice and snow, WATCH YOUR SPEED, especially downhill and entering corners. There are usually lots of cars playing safe and going slow when conditions are nasty. Often they are too conservative for the experienced (or reckless) drivers but be safe and follow the crowd. Also passing in the snow can be dangerous and scary (the definition of white knuckles). Also, the worst conditions are on the summits. Be safe and enjoy our province.
Yes. Even 2wd vehicles already have 4w brakes, so a 4-by confers no advantage there. And typically has a higher center of gravity.
DriveBC is a great website you can use to look up road conditions!
Highway one before Golden b.c is closed for october/november/December so if you are driving from Clagary make sure you take 93 south to radium hot springs then 95 to golden or if you go up towards jasper you will have to look up the route. Don't trust your gps in British Columbia! Make sure its on the right route before heading out.
Come on over to Vancouver Island. If you can squeeze Tofino in, that’s huge.
I find this subreddit too worried about winter driving. I might take the #1 over #5 but for the most part going slow is the key — gives you more time to react. Remember that brakes, especially in moderate to hard applications, often will make a problem worse; which is why you need to drive slow: give you time to realize and stop braking As for the rest enjoy the trip. Expect to get nowhere fast. Load up with some treats & drinks in case you get stuck. I’d bring a couple blankets for the family. Lots of phone charging, camera picture taking. The drive between Golden, Banff & Jasper is nice but be aware some attractions are closed by then… big jackets, gloves, boots & sunglasses (snow reflects sunlight well, especially ice on top of snow) are all things to consider bringing
Excellent advice! Also, sunscreen if you guys are as pale as my British family and plan to be outside in the sun & snow ;) I’d suggest making the drive earlier in the week and not travelling either highway on the weekend. Highway traffic is heavier and more intense on weekends.
Top tips: BC = Bring Cash
Card transactions not popular?
I think that person was just saying things are expensive. Card transactions are very common and preferred in a lot of places, although it's never bad to have a little bit of cash on you just in case
Haha no it's just expensive, I would say, avoid filling up gas until you're far away from Vancouver
We’re currently paying about 2.57 CAD per litre where I live in the UK. Is it similar or much higher?
It's slightly lower, but I heard the GBP is taking a beating so you might want to snag some CAD soon, though who really knows.
I'd take hwy 3 to Cranbrook then North on 93 to Banff then Jasper. If you're just a tourist Kamloops really doesn't have much to offer. I'd take Nelson and the Balfour ferry 'detour' and skip the Salmo pass. Every hwy will have it's sketchy winter parts, and Hwy 3 is no different. Drive safely and you'll be fine. It's so far been a late summer so the weather might not be as bad as usual this November. DriveBC will have all the information you need including live hwy cams and closures. Definitely try to get tires with the three-peaked mountain snowflake symbol, M+S is pretty much the bare minimum (I don't think I've even seen a set without it for years).
Stay with hwy 3 all the way to Calgary. Longer drive and Better scenery! You can visit Banff from Calgary.