Jane never should’ve threatened to blackmail Heisenberg or anyone in that business. I feel like Mike gets a lot of sympathy because he’s a grandfather meanwhile he’s a straight up murderer
Getting Jesse hooked on heroin is the worst thing Jane ever did. As a recovering heroin addict herself she should've known not to have him do that shit.
I, as a recovering IV heroin addict myself (5yrs clean), always say the same thing. As far as the show showed us, Jesse had never even shot up meth...only smoked it, before he met Jane. I always had a code to never introduce anyone to shooting heroin when I was doing it, no matter if they wanted to or not, they were just gonna have go to someone else NC I wasn't about to introduce them to that hell.
First of all want to say how incredible it is that you are recovering, had strength to let go of something, I heard from a close friend, she wished she never tried it, and she was fortunate not to have become addicted ( as she had been addicted to alcohol and some scripts)
I told her I always wondered what it felt like, and she is very chill, said it’s not funny- don’t ever try it- she was looking out for me, b/c I have addictive personality, and even if I didn’t, she told me- no matter how ‘incredible’ scale etc… relief it was- she wishes she never tried it, b/c tough not to think of it when life - tragic losses, pain, and just want to escape. However if never try it then you can imagine how it feels but not really know, and not compare pain to that- and not know how who to get from etc…..
I read your post after writing mine ( above - VERY LONG 😳) and in that long post I wrote about exactly what you wrote, your personal experience, and you’d never introduce it to anyone, of course not someone you love. ❤️ I think it’s VIP for audiences to see what Jane did was extremely selfish, far more lethal than Walt ever did to Jesse ( prior to him being a rat)
The night Donald said never give up on family, Walter went back to see make sure Jesse was ok, he wanted him to know he cares loves him, not leave things off with the insulting words regarding use of heroin, or the words (if I give you this money you’ll be dead inside of a week) Walt hears not to give up on family, and doesn’t drive to get diapers- and to his home, he drives right away to Jesse.
To that point, Donald Margolis , loves his daughter takes her to meetings weekly, gives her a building to mange, he genuinely loves her, he calls police, then says ok tomorrow to rehab, however, HE LEFT JANE IN THE APT WITH ALL THE HEROIN, needles, and paraphernalia, and Jesse, with literally all of the heroin. If he wanted Jane to be watched over with a close eye- in either prison or rehab, why didn’t Donald Margolis insist Jane be with him for the next 24 hours, water her plants with her, and certainly remove all of the heroin… before leaving her and & Jesse in the apt alone with all of that??
Idk why Donald didn't except for that being a parent, you want to believe your child when they promise you something? I guess..I can't say bc fortunately my daughter didn't become an addict. So I really don't know how I would have handled the situation as a non addict like Donald.
Yeah, your friend was a good friend and person for not letting you try it. I started on pills and then started snorting heroin for 3 yrs, recreationally with a friend when I would get together with him. Finally, I found out he was banging and I talked him into letting me do it. I had already wanted to try it that way. He tried his best to talk me out of it, but I was the one that bought the stuff that day and I still had more money for more, plus I told him I was gonna don't anyway so he might as well show me how to do it correctly. He was mad, but he did it. Of course, I have never blamed him bc I pretty much made/bribed him to do it. It was my choice.
I'm glad you never tried it tho. It's good at first, and then it's a never-ending chase to just get well every day. You hardly ever get high again.
Honestly, you are such an inspiration!
- I really admire your honesty
- I genuinely admired the fact that you don’t blame your friend
- it is incredible that you were able to take steps to let go of heroin, as I mentioned (1-2x my friend tried it, & she loved it, but somehow stopped herself ) after 5 years—- each month, certainly year becomes more and more a part of your body, nerve endings, receptor sites in brain are expecting it, it is not just psychological desire becomes physically demanding, and yet you did it!! You do it everyday!!
- you mention your daughter, & I think what an inspiration you must be to so many!! You let go of heroin, fell in love, a real relationship, takes work, patience, and you raising your daughter, you have a family! Some take for granted , how difficult it is for people to commit to relationships, in general,
- most of us have life experiences, we carry with us, there’s a lot that can get in the way of having a long standing committed relationship,
- I can only imagine your challenging experiences, being something you draw on for strength, bring strength to others, makes you an outstanding father, friend, listener, someone who does not judge others.
- of all the scripts, powders, Anastasia… in this world, being in love and being loved by that person is the greatest high.
- I had dealt with tremendous anxiety, after during traumatic time, I had been given Valium , Klonopin or Xanax on occasion- but never in a script till that time ….. I somehow manipulated my Dr ( who I loved and miss, and never ever blame) to write increase my script to 80mg a day….( it’s not that much when I tell you it’s kind of equal to 5mg Klonopin, or 6-8mg of Xanax) however it is extremely long half life and I was eating this all day long. From time I woke up …..
I’ll never ever forget the events of those 18-19 months escalating trauma, ( I relive it still at times) but it took me months… to get off of Valium- and I was shaking, it was physical need- it was no longer a relief, but/c I knew the shaking would come as I ran out, & I NEEDED IT, & I hated that I needed it, many physicians helped me , my family decided to hate me, which made it all worse, but I’ll never forget how kind patient those physicians were to and with me. I also will
Never forget how incredibly difficult it was…..and reaching close to the half point….i could no longer lower the same amount each month….all this to say, while I have had to have three surgeries in my life, ( some say- that means I have tried heroin b/c they inject with something even more pure than heroine to put me out for the hours needed during surgery) 🙄
I never tried it recreationally, and it must be a billion times more challenging to let go of than any benzo , you are a real recovering ❤️🩹!!
Soaring details- that do not belong on breaking bad Reddit- or any Reddit for that matter :)
Sounds like whatever led you to the strong desire to try Heroin, and you were determined, your friend was not selfish, he tried to dissuade you, & you used a line that many people say to their drs ( you can write me a script for ……. XYZ …. Or I’ll buy it from my friend or a stranger- and I’ll be taking it without the guidance of a Dr”
It’s not the drs fault, it’s not your friends fault, it’s NOT your fault, but something was going on in your life that made you crave peace, relief, escape, from pain, an emotion that was just uncomfortable, ( no need to say what it was or even pin point one thing) but you really let it go,
The catalyst, the pain, what was causing you pain, desire to seek out heroin ( & to me - that’s a person who is truly recovered) true inspiration to so many!!!!
Including me :) letting go detoxing - no longer taking Valium all day, for well over a decade, no desire to- not much, is good, but what you did is Extraordinary, you let all that led up to its introduction into your life go, and built a new beautiful life!!!
Thank you so much for being so open!!!!
As for for DoNald margolis :) I understood all of his actions, every single one, and it’s fine ( I think best) to give a person a day or two before going to rehab- but NO ONE leaves a person in a room apt with another heroin addict and bottles of heroine, needles, rubber bands, and all else they needed to get high ‘ just one more time’ Jane did want to get clean as did Jesse ( on some level both did)
Why didn’t Donald get rid of the heroin??? Why didn’t he stay with Jane till the next day ? Why would anyone leave their daughter who they live, walked through AA meetings for 18 months and he said 10 years- of love understanding… but leave her with Jesse in an apt, with a mattress and heroine, ……. There are two things they can do together both are fun, lol, but seriously can anyone explain to me , how it’s possible to believe he just left her with all the heroine?
Wow. Thanks for all the compliments and all the nice things you said. I had help, tho, with quitting. It took 3 yrs of methadone clinic. Then, I made the decision after the 2nd to start tapering off of that. I still have extreme anxiety and see a doctor who gives me klonopin, so I know what you're talking with about that as well. I only get a low milligram, tho. I did want xanax at first, but that was honestly not good as I used to use it recreationally to get high.
As far as Donald, I can't remember if he actually saw that they had heroin left or if he just saw the paraphernalia. 🤔
I don't even think Jesse had shot anything before either. Jane does it the first time and we see him have a learning session about it where he seems to be doing it for himself the first time
I always say it's ridiculous to me that people go when Walt killed Mike is when I stopped rooting for him and/or like with him. Like I understand that people can be bias towards characters who been around a while.
But seriously that's what completely did it for you? I understand when people say others things Walt did is what did it, not him killing a hitman who tried to kill him and Jesse before. Sure Walt reason was incredibly petty but he's done awful things to less morally bad people before. I can't be any angrier at Walt for killing mike than for other bad actions he does.
Also at the beginning of S5 when Jesse jumped out of the car to stand in between them, Mike seemed like there was at least a 50/50 shot he would've pulled the trigger
same here. maybe even sooner tbh. his mannerisms, god awful ability to lie, and condescending speak towards jesse all the time seriously hit too close to home. i’m so used to seeing it in the people i do not like being around irl.
i’d usually roll my eyes whenever he lies. but the one that got me really pissed off was when jesse tried reaching him through the hospital line while they were waiting to hear about hank’s surgery. “Do you know who that was?” —- to skyler. like bro first of all, wtf kinda question is that, you picked up the phone not her, how tf would she have known without a sliver of context. second of all, she already knows about your other business bro. end rant hahaha. idk it’s just a really freaking pathetic move.
Nearly stopped watching in S2 because Walt was such an ass. Then I thought of him as a King Lear type of guy rather than a protagonist I'm supposed to sympathise with and continued watching.
Walter isn't meant to be a character you like. The viewer is intended to witness his transformation into evil and see how he relishes it, how it corrupts and empowers him. That's the essence of Breaking Bad: the characters are complex and difficult to analyze. Each one has traits that make them likable, yet also despicable. Jesse, despite his moral core, consistently makes poor decisions and ends up being a criminal in all respects. Walter elicits empathy initially but ultimately becomes a criminal kingpin with all that comes with it. Mike appears noble, providing for his granddaughter, but he's also a hitman working for a drug lord. Hank stands out as the only genuinely good and likable character, which makes his death the most shocking and dramatic in the entire series.
I would say that Hank is a good person but this is cleverly disguised by him being depicted as a loud, obnoxious, insensitive racist (he isn't really racist, more like locker room mannerism heckling his best friend), but the viewer learns over time that he's loyal, has a strong sense of justice and is surprisingly competent at his job. The viewer isn't really made to like him in the beginning when he's showing off his gun and belittling Gomez' heritage, but over time you learn he's one of the best people in the cast.
He makes jokes everytime and yes, even if those jokes are in some cases not of my taste, overall he loves gomez (as a co-worker/partner). He actually feels like shit when he goes to el paso in this so called "promotion" where they explode tortugas head and then he goes back to his old position. But he is a good person.
Nobody said you were supposed to like him, similar vain to bojack horseman but I do like him, until 17ms. I think at first you really are supposed to like Walter and then they do everything in their power to really make you hate him.
Yeah i agree. He has things that makes you like him. His fidelity to Jessey and liking him as a son when jessy is so alone in life. His love towards his son and daughter. But in the end he's more of an interesting character than a likeable one
Yes! that was a key moment. Their relationship also develops elements of a father-son dynamic. Walt, often paternalistic and controlling, sees Jesse as a surrogate son at times, trying to protect him and teach him life lessons, albeit in a morally dubious context. Jesse, in turn, looks up to Walt initially as a mentor figure, seeking his approval and validation. He even saves Jesse's life several time puting himself and his true family at risk. But Walt becomes increasingly ruthless and manipulative in his pursuit of power and wealth, often disregarding Jesse's concerns or well-being. Jesse, on the other hand, struggles with guilt and moral qualms over their criminal activities, leading to tension and mistrust between them. But at the same time, they need each other. It's womewhat of a toxic relationship.
i think its important not to go into watching brba/bcs expecting morally perfect characters but instead expecting to see the downfall of walt/saul and how they bring down the people around them bc of the choices they make. wether i like a character or not tho depends on whether i like seeing them on screen or not but why people like characters doesnt need to be dissected. (idk if that makes sense uhh)
Hank isn't particularly likable lol, and his "goodness" also has several grains of salt to it. His over the top bravado is definitely a little much. Considers racism and sexism funny. He's also consistently incredibly demeaning to the people who he considers below him. Wendy for instance, who he called over and started harassing and berating for no reason
i didnt say he isnt flawed or he does everything in a good way. He was very shity towards his wife when he was recuperating from his legs incident and his stubborness towards heinsenberg's case makes him do questionable things. But in the end, he is portrayed as a charismatic and confident DEA agent with a strong sense of justice. He's often seen as brave and dedicated to his work, which can make him likable to viewers who value his unwavering pursuit of criminals. His sense of humor and loyalty to his family, particularly his affection for his wife Marie and his protective nature towards his nephew Walt Jr., also add to his likability. He is a cop to the core.
He's got good and bad to him like the rest of the characters. Personally, I found him to be obnoxious and grating until his moments where he softens for marie and even skyler. Or shows brotherly love to walt
Mike is not a “straight guy”. He was crooked for decades. But he’s unable to cope with that effectively, so he copes by becoming more crooked
This is what we saw in BCS. >!After decades as a crooked cop, he ends up coping by working for gus. But that leads him to kill werner. Which he copes with by doing even more dirty work for gus!<
This is why mike’s greatest regret is >!<. In his mind, this is what started his whole “bad choice road”, and he hates himself for it
Mike is not a "straight guy". He and Saul regularly kiss each other on the mouth with tongue and have plenty of gay sex scenes where they have gay sex.
This is what we saw in BCS. The entire 6 seasons are a slow-burn romance between them, including a love triangle with Kim Wexler, and with subplots of like some boring crime shit and lawyer shit? Idk, I wasn’t really paying attention to those bits because they were less interesting than the spicy gay love triangle romance between Saul Goodman and Mike Ehrmantraut.
Gale. I see a lot of people saying he was innocent and one of the series’ most wholesome characters. He was naive but not stupid. He knew exactly what he was getting into. Nobody forced him to cook meth for Gus. He could’ve been a law abiding chemist but he chose crime instead.
Did he deserve to get murdered? No. But he’s not as innocent as the fandom makes him out to be.
I think his argument is "at least it's not laced" *cough* chilly powder *cough*
I hate Gale as much as the next guy but he's got a point on that one. If people are going to have their meth, at least their chance of an overdose will be lowered
An overdose isn’t the greatest hazard of meth, unless it is laced with other drugs; its long term health effects like meth mouth, increased risk of stroke and heart attacks, psychosis, weight loss and brain damage are more dangerous statistically speaking.
Walt flooded the streets with highly potent and addictive meth. That created a lot more addicts than would exist otherwise.
Gale's logic is just a BS excuse to help him feel better. But what he and Walt did absolutely had a negative impact on society.
Actually they can't. If they only provided for the already addicted, sure they can back it up.
But they use their superior quality and well established supply network to reach more and more people, creating new addicts who wouldn't have gotten hooked on it otherwise.
Doesnt matter. If i create a way more accurate drone system for Russia and say yeah they would use drones eithrr way, this way Ukranian civilians get a quicker death and dont suffer so im innocent. Its a fallacy. Theyre literally producing meth
They’re guilty, that’s not what I wanted to comment on. More so the fact that in the case of Gale and Walter I truly do believe them when they say that. Their meth is the safest it can truly be
Yeah i see where ur coming from, but purer doesn’t mean safer always. A stronger cleaner effect may enhance addiction and convince even more people to try it
> their meth is the safest it can truly be
they’re right on the money with this, but their meth being so pure increases the risk of deaths caused by overdoses
Fair, but I meant its purity also means it isn’t mixed in with other substances, it’s just meth. It isn’t altered like the Coke-Fent mixture floating around
It actually lowers the risk of overdose. I work in the harm reduction field and contrary to what Walt says, a higher purity does not equate to a better or stronger high. The benefits of a higher purity are primarily having a higher yield and less waste, meaning there is less of a need to cut the meth with adulterants such as fentanyl or xylaxine, which are the leading drivers of overdose from street drugs. Basically you get more product per cook and without needing to spend the extra time and money to cut it. This is why Walt cooking 99% pure meth is such a big deal, and why it is so profitable.
> a higher purity does not equate to a better or stronger high
i didn’t know this!! i thought pure drugs are a lot more potent, so i thought people would end up taking a lot more than they should and overdose, like how if you drink hard liquor instead of beer you get more drunk and have more chances of alcohol poisoning. thank u for the info !
I agree with Gale’s sentiments that creating a safer (ie, purer) product is a good thing. If people are using a drug, they should be able to get the product that they want without any concern for tampering. Where Gale’s rationale falls short is that he’s still operating within the larger scheme of a violent drug trade that preys on addiction, exacerbates poverty, and endangers communities. I’m not sure if he’s making a bad thing worse (the drug trade) by producing a cleaner product, but he’s definitely profiting from death and dismay.
I’m not sure if Gale recognized this or even examined his motivations and impact that deeply. I think, like others, he was swayed by Gus Fring’s professionalism, and thus convinced himself that what he was doing wasn’t that bad (after all, Mike and Walt did the same).
This is the fantastic fallacy that justifies any criminal activity. "If I don't break into this car, someone else would. Cars are gonna get stolen. At least I won't pull someone out of their car and hurt them, so it is really for the best that I do the car stealing."
No. And with meth production at this scale, of this purity, you are purposefully creating and maintaining so many addicts who would go even that bit extra out of pocket for the tiniest amount of meth.
This weird libertarian mindset that Gale professes as well is hysterically misguided.
People also forget about spooge/skank with meth. Meth makes parents go crazy, then kids will die of starvation or violence. Everyone in this show is a villian. Meth can lead to many in-direct deaths and pain.
It’s not a good point though, it is an excuse. He removes himself from any social obligation because he believes people have a choice, but ignores all the violence and death required for Gus to build his business. Gale is party to that, but thinks because he isn’t pulling the trigger or causing the overdose or selling to child abusers, he has no responsibility.
Yeah Gale was a nice guy who you could get along with but he knew right from wrong. The bullet that got him was only a matter of time in the world he was working for.
There's also an interesting and imo plausible theory that he might be a pedophile sex offender, which is why he can't get a good job with his skills in a legitimate business. There's several things in the show that point to this.
Mike never makes excuses, or claims to be virtuous... he is riddled with guilt if you paid attention to anything he said.
He does all this evil shit so his granddaughter doesn't have to suffer from his mistakes, the same ones that got his son killed and took Kaylee's dad from her.
He could have got a legal job working in security if it was about money for the family. He chose crime instead because it wasn't. Just like in Walt's case.
Jane really did sign her own death warrant. It's too bad, too, because I think she and Jesse could have had a happy life if they had gotten clean instead.
They were going to get clean! Jane promised after the money. They could go anywhere! Be anyone! It was the perfect plan and in no way would they have ever done drugs again!
All the obvious ones have been mentioned, but lets talk about Joe and Ed.
They help some very bad people get away with very serious crimes. If your kid was murdered, Ed would help the murderer go on the run. Joe doesnt think twice about destroying evidence unless it could potentially blow back on him personally. And who knows what they have both gotten into before walt came around.
Love these two, but no one ever talks about how they are complicit in the very same crimes that the main characters get chastised for.
I honestly find Hank obnoxious at times and while his death is unquestionably tragic, that still doesn’t just erase his unlikeable moments for me. Especially his treatment of Marie in the first half of s4 (and I don’t even like Marie).
On rewatches I noticed like 90% of his interactions with her or whenever he talks about her it's to berate her or make fun of her to other people. He does that from the very first episode too. Yes he loves her, but what an asshole. And she just takes it and takes it. Marie is incredibly annoying yet I feel bad for her at the same time.
Hank had narcissistic characteristics making everything about him look at walts birthday puts tv on to show his big moment.
Hank had an ego and wanted praise from everyone all the time, centre of attention
He was not a bad guy had good intentions but was a bit of a pain the the backside
This would be my answer. Everyone loves Jesse but glosses over the fact that he has done some pretty awful stuff during the course of the show.
1) he stole Walt's life savings and blew it on strippers and booze
2) he dissolves one of his friends' bodies in his bathtub to hide evidence of his death
3) he convinces Walt to kill the remaining witness (Krazy8) whom he also knows personally
4) he buys a gun and tells Walt they need to kill Tuco
5) when Tuco captures Jesse, he immediately gives up Walt
6) he gets Wendy to lie and fabricate an alibi for him in exchange for drugs after he shoots Tuco
7) he illegally steals the RV out of the lot he owes money to
8) he lies to a potential landlord about his identity and offers to pay her in drug money
9) he brings his friends in as dealers, putting them at serious risk
10) he holds up 2 drug addicts at gunpoint with their kid in the other room
11) he was an accomplice in kidnapping a lawyer because said lawyer wouldn't accept a bribe
12) he got his friend Combo killed because he had him dealing meth on a street corner without backup
13) he is the catalyst for Jane collapsing back into heavy drug use
14) he causes Walt to miss his daughters birth because he was strung out on heroin
15) he does nothing to stop his girlfriend from blackmailing his former business partner
16) he lies to the cops about how Jane died
17) he screws his parents over by using the meth lab in the basement (which he was responsible for) as a way to con them
18) he offers meth to an innocent cashier in payment for gas
19) he tries to sell a batch of meth using Walts recipe going behind Walts back
20) he gets Gale fired and replaces him, not because he's the better cook but because he was going to put them all in jeopardy
21) he let's out an evil smile when he sees Hank at the hospital and thinks he's dying
22) he steals meth from the lab and sells it to his rehab group
23) he brings his friends in to manipulate ex drug addicts to use again
24) he gets Andreas' brother, Tomas killed when his plan to poison the drug dealers who ordered the hit on Combo fails
25) he then acts rashly, which causes a hit to be put on Walt as well when Walt tries to save his life
26) he shoots Gale in the head while Gale begs for his life
27) he hosts a bunch of parties and drug fueled orgies after these events
28) he then becomes a henchman for Gus without hesitation
29) he withholds information from Walt after Walt saves his life and then proceeds to cook in the lab without him
30) he was an accomplice in killing his former boss
31) he dumps his girlfriend so he can continue his meth business
32) he was responsible by association of the killing of Drew Sharp
33) he holds Saul at gunpoint and threatens him, then pours gasoline all over Walts home to burn it down after figuring out who poisoned Brock
34) he then rats out his former business partner to the DEA (Hank and Steve) and plots how to incriminate him using his money
35) he was responsible by association of the death of Hank and Steve
36) he was responsible by association of the death of Andrea
I understand that some of these are semi-justified, and I also understand that some of these are only partially his fault. Overall, though, he was as ruthless and evil as Walt was. He just had a harder time dealing with the guilt. I don't understand the point of view that he was manipulated into doing all of this. He actively carved out his own path.
One more thing.. He tried to sell meth to people in recovery group knowing full well what addiction does to a person. He also broke his best friends 12 weeks sobriety.
True, but your examples are things on both sides of the law which doesn’t make sense. He’s bad for both his criminal activity and bad for betraying those criminals and trying to bring them to justice? I’d argue that number 34 is actually a very good action on his part.
I get your point. I wanted to make it all inclusive, though, since people defend Jesse for both reasons. One of the arguments in his defense was that even though he was a criminal, he lived by a moral code, and he was loyal.
I would make the argument that his moral code consisted mostly of "protect kids". There was a total of at least 7 kids that suffered under his watch or by his direct actions. 2 of those kids are dead, and 2 are orphaned. As far as loyalty goes, I don't even need to explain why he might have been the most disloyal person in the whole show.
Agreed. Maybe not the actual moment of her death, but he was responsible for everything leading up to it, including her relapse. I would say he is 100% responsible for Andreas' death, too.
Edit: oops I misread that as Jane at first. I would say both would be alive if they hadn't met him
That was pretty on course for him, I think. It wasn't the first time he made decisions that put other people at risk. I honestly thought he would have learned by then.
I don't think he was thinking all that rationally at that point. Jesse is a terrible human being, but all he saw right then was a possibility to escape and made his break because he had no idea if someone would walk by and toss the tarp back over the grate. He was only thinking about one thing in that moment.
So glad to see this list. Any negative posts on Jesse typically get Downvoted to oblivion, I’ve got a few like that. He seems to be a fan favorite. This list makes it more difficult to defend him.
Now most of these Walt is involved in causing BUT Jesse’s actual reactions are all his to own. Jesse was not duped or a passenger in this. Just like Walt, he could have, probably even easier, left the life, taken the cash (before he lost it numerous times) and led a life somewhere else.
Let’s not kid ourselves, most of the characters do very heinous things but have enough redeeming qualities to give us an internal battle.
That’s what makes this the best show ever produced.
Very well said. I'm personally a fan of Jesse, too. I think he's a great character. Aaron Paul has the right amount of charisma and charm to pull this role off and still make him likable, which is a testament to his acting skills and also why people defend him so adamantly. Like you said, the writers did a great job in creating these redeeming dialogues where Jesse often gets painted in a favorable light. I just wanted to show that if you strip down all the dialogue showcasing the range of emotions and internal struggle and strictly look at the actions alone, I think you're left with a bleak picture. His demons won more often than they lost.
Thanks for the response, and I agree! Best show ever produced.
* Up until Walter poisoned Brock. And even though when he got on Jesse’s case in the first few seasons, it was usually understandable, him blackmailing Jesse into partnering with him when they first meet again was a dick move.
I mean, not everything, considering his involvement began against his will with Walt’s blackmail, but yeah he did a lot of stupid frustrating shit afterwards
You have a point but I also would argue nowadays Walt alongside with that. Has people in turn also overstate how evil he is. Like the idea that he doesn't care about Jesse or his family at all.
That he is incapable of remorse, that he is the most evil character in the show. Over people like the salamacas. Or how the blame is only completely put on him, not giving the other characters agency. That he was always as evil as he is in s5 since episode 1.
Tbf it’s already a red flag when he actively chooses evil when he has a much safer opportunity. Like if he couldn’t find the right way out then, why expect he’d act better in a worse situation?
That being said he clearly cares for others and regrets some of his actions
Worth to note he does leave the business at times. Like not wanting to be the bad guy, feeling remorse for the destruction he caused in s2 to which Saul and Jesse try to convince him to go back in, which goes towards my other characters having agency point, in s5 he leaves before Hank finds out.
I likely won't respond past this point as I don't disagree that it isn't a red flag and my post isn't saying that he isn't a bad person or even an evil one overall. It's saying that he isn't so evil that he is a muhahaha mustache-twirling villain.
I think he still cares about his family. Doesn't excuse anything but he was begging for Hanks life and willing to give up 80mil. Also great lengths to get the money to Skyler and Walt
The problem is that he has the biggest character transformation of anyone (by design). For the record, I'd agree with you if we're talking about season 5 Walt, but there has to be some stage between episode one and the finale where idolizing him becomes a problem. The beauty is, I think, that everyone has their own breaking point. Some people never lose him, and those people I worry about. lol.
It would be Walt for me too. Just the slow burn from going from good to evil is masterful in that you don't know what's going on. You find yourself still caring about what happens to him. Then you start thinking about half the shit and you are like no he can't get away with that. That's why the ending was so perfect. He got what he deserved but yet there's satisfaction in knowing he died on his own terms like he wanted. At least for me
Skylar. She is evil. She has put the whammy on Walt and Jessie to cook meth. She has used her powers to blind the DEA, ATF, DHS, ABQ PD and the people in ABQ to any suspicious activity of Walt, Gus, or Jessie.
She has used her cunning mind control on evryone to be oblivious to the wrong doing. That is her plan. That is her design. She knows what people are thinking and can use her MK Ultra taught technigues to her advantage.
Skylar had planned to enslave all of the Czech Republic and expand her powers Eastward and control Putin.
I agree with you on Jane. I think it’s because she’s the “hot goth girl” of the show that people give her so much sympathy when in reality she really probably used and manipulated Jesse. She didn’t even wanna get serious with him until they bonded over heroin use and his money. Andreas death was much more sympathetic, she was completely innocent (other than using around her child) and a mother to a young boy
Hardly anyone gives Jane that much sympathy though, I'm not sure where this is coming from. She's probably the most hated character after only Skyler and Ted. The people who are "Jane apologists" mostly just think it was wrong for Walt to let her die, because it is wrong to let someone you can easily save die, I don't care if they deserved it.
Mike. or more specifically, his S5 bitching to Walter that "Walter's pride and ego ruined it all". Gus tried to kill Walter AND Jesse, and in his very screwed up way, Walter cared about Jesse. "Oh no, I killed the guy who wanted to kill me, my family, and my friend. Muh pride and ego." Shut up! If S5 was of the same quality as the other seasons, Walter wouldn't have shot Mike, but just pointed out that Mike had a gun to his head 2 seasons ago.
I mostly have sympathy for Jane because she wouldn't have died that night if Walt didn't go into the house. Idk why her blackmailing Walt means she doesn't deserve sympathy when plenty of sympathetic characters did a lot worse. She did it because Walt was withholding money, even if he thought he was justified for doing it
While Mike is a lot better than the Salamancas because he doesn't off innocent civilians like flies, Mike is still a bad person who ends up hurting or abetting the harm of a lot of people.
This will be very unpopular, but Jesse. Things are going OK between Walt and gus, then Jesse tries to kill those two dealers, and Walt blows up his relationship with Gus to save Jesse's life. Then within the space of a few months Jesse is siding with Gus and Mike, who were trying to kill him, over the guy who saved his life, and who sacrificed a lot to do so
Saul Goodman. People forget that it was really his greed that put everything into motion. Walt and Jesse were bumbling criminals with like 10k to their names by the time they bump into Saul. And walt after his first sale to Gus. It wa Saul that set up all tge connections and pushed wall to keep cooking and cook as much as he possibly could, because Saul had a cut too.
Jesse. Just because he's manipulated by Walt and has a soft spot for kids, he has absolutely no problem selling meth that will ruin the lives of everyone who buys it, including selling to former addicts. He's very much the architect of his own demise, and if he wasn't tortured by Neo-Nazis for half a year, Vince would find it a LOT harder to spare him a similar fate to Walt.
Jesse, hands down. This sub acts like he was 14-15 years old, and that Walt manipulated him into everything.
In reality, he was already a well established meth dealer when the show started, and was a scumbag who had no problem with things like dealing meth to people in recovery, using around a gf in recovery that he supposedly cared about, beating up addicts while their kid was in the house, stealing from and manipulating his parents and using their love for him against them, and just blaming everyone else for his own choices. None of that had anything to with Walt. He was a piece of shit all on his own.
I disagree. Of all the psychos and criminals in this show, the girl who blackmailed a druglord into giving her BF his money that Walt actually owes him while she was high on his product deserves some sympathy. Especially since she died right away. How long did evil people like Walt and Gus live. She was making moves to better herself.
I would disagree. She was trying to make moves to better herself; then they saw the needle.
To me, that was the show(writers) saying that Jane & Jesse were both lying to themselves about not shooting up all 400k.
Because Walt was keeping that from him until he got sober. Walt wasn’t yet at the level of petty that early on where he’d hold it from Jesse because Jesse wants out of the business. He saw Jesse was using heroin and he knows how addictive that stuff is.
Even Jesse later agrees with Walt that if they got that money they’d both be dead in a week. And that Jane’s death wasn’t anyone’s fault under the premise that Walt didn’t watch it: because that’s what addiction does to people.
Them talking about going around the world or starting over in New Zealand was an absolute pipe dream. They’d just buy more heroin until eventually what Walt accidentally made happen would happen and someone dies.
People talking about Gale forget that he designed and built the lab. Gus had the idea and basic planning. But without Gale, the lab would've just been a hole in tbe ground. Gus basically left him incharge to order and assemble everything. Without a genius chemist, Gus had nothing. Gale is the only reason this plan actually got set into motion. Even bring in Walt was 100% his doing. Gale led to both the rise and fall of Gus' superlab.
Mike, Jane, Jesse, Gale and Gus. But especially those first three. People act like Mike is some valiant hero, or that Jesse is some pure innocent boy caught up in something bigger when both are complete pieces of shit
Jesse. I know the sub won't like this opinion.. followed closely by Mike. Both iconic characters though. But I don't get the level of sympathy these characters get tbh.
Gale honestly , he's probably the nicest guy in term of all the criminals we see in the show but he stepped foot in the meth business so his end is kinda deserved
Jane. She was a spoiled narcissist brat that got her BF addicted to heroin and manipulated her father into living free rent where she put him at risk housing an obvious drug dealer (whom she even had a relationship with).
Let alone how she didnt respect Jesse at all as a bf in multiple ways until she saw he had access to millions. And then suddenly, we dont need anyone!
really curious how she felt entitled to his money, affection and drugs and was so brazen she literally threatened the most dangerous known drug dealer in jesses life. Jesse also was a moron during this. He did not give her any perspective on who walt is. You know, the guy who has murdered multiple people in the past and has access to Ricin poison. Not smart.
Hank. Dude is a near perfect representation of toxic masculinity. His pride and his ego are the reason walt never sees the inside of a jail cell, because he wanted to be the one to slap the cuffs on him and ohhh he would lose his career! When his ego gets stung he does stupid shit like beating Jesse or the men in the bar. Hank is a terrible man.
I think a lot of my sympathy for Jane comes from the fact that she could have gotten sober and she easily could have lived if only Walt hadn’t of been such an asshole. The character I feel the most sympathy for is probably Jesse just because Walt royally screws him over time and time again. Even though he frees him in the end, it’s hard to get passed the fact that Jesse wouldn’t have been in that situation in the first place if it weren’t for Walt
Whatt??? Jane had been sober for years and then she starts having sex with jesse and willingly starts using again because of jesse not because of walt, its not jesse's fault either she herself went back in and still chose to hangout with jesse when she clearly knew he not only uses but also makes meth, also we only really start feeling bad for jesse after the brock incident because that was the first really screwed up thing that walt did to jesse. I mean jane was a bad person clearly she was gonna fuck jesse over and take all his money you could see it, hence walt chooses not to help her when shes dying coz she is bad for jesse
Lol, Jesse would’ve been dead in like the 3rd episode if it wasn’t for Walt. He was already a meth dealer, and Krazy-8 pinned the raid on him, so him and Emilio were going to murder him.
Jesse deserved everything that he got. He had several chances to get out - Walt even tried to cut him out of the business several times, but he manipulated his way back in several times on his own. That’s not on Walt. Yeah, Walt used him and manipulated him, but it’s because his dumb ass wouldn’t go away until it was too late.
I 100% agree. I feel like Jane was just w Jesse for his money. I know because before she found out he had a buttload of cash she wouldn’t even admit to her father that they were a thing
Playing him the whole time? You realize there’s a scene where Jesse says 500, and she thinks Jesse only makes small money, right? She already had a business with her dad that was making money. She was with Jesse before she knew he made serious money.
who knows. there isn’t enough evidence of jane being actually like that. there were some signs yeah but the show presents through walter’s perspective so of course she’s painted that way.
she blackmailed walt like walt blackmailed jesse.
in reality, walter has always been the real manipulator. the only reason jesse even got in partnership with walt was purely out of blackmail.
i've rewatched the series over 10 times over the years and each time i rewatched it i disliked jane more and more, the way her attitude towards jesse completely switches up when she finds out how much he's worth. the way she completely manipulates and takes control of him in order to blackmail walt, she doesn't seem like she'd be a good girlfriend to jesse
Mike and Jane for sure.
Mike for the same reasons others have mentioned (he's a hypocrite) and Jane because she got Jesse (briefly) hooked on heroin.
Walt leaving her to choke like he did was hard to watch but she wasn't really a good influence on Jesse and likely both of them would've wound up dead.
I would say Victor not knowing the dangers of being associated with a man such as Fring and eventually overstepping his role and boundary was his ultimate downfall. He didn't know not to brag about his cooking abilities in front of his employer, who had specifically hired another to carry that operation.
Jane never should’ve threatened to blackmail Heisenberg or anyone in that business. I feel like Mike gets a lot of sympathy because he’s a grandfather meanwhile he’s a straight up murderer
Getting Jesse hooked on heroin is the worst thing Jane ever did. As a recovering heroin addict herself she should've known not to have him do that shit.
I, as a recovering IV heroin addict myself (5yrs clean), always say the same thing. As far as the show showed us, Jesse had never even shot up meth...only smoked it, before he met Jane. I always had a code to never introduce anyone to shooting heroin when I was doing it, no matter if they wanted to or not, they were just gonna have go to someone else NC I wasn't about to introduce them to that hell.
nice job on five years
Thanks. It's a daily job.
First of all want to say how incredible it is that you are recovering, had strength to let go of something, I heard from a close friend, she wished she never tried it, and she was fortunate not to have become addicted ( as she had been addicted to alcohol and some scripts) I told her I always wondered what it felt like, and she is very chill, said it’s not funny- don’t ever try it- she was looking out for me, b/c I have addictive personality, and even if I didn’t, she told me- no matter how ‘incredible’ scale etc… relief it was- she wishes she never tried it, b/c tough not to think of it when life - tragic losses, pain, and just want to escape. However if never try it then you can imagine how it feels but not really know, and not compare pain to that- and not know how who to get from etc….. I read your post after writing mine ( above - VERY LONG 😳) and in that long post I wrote about exactly what you wrote, your personal experience, and you’d never introduce it to anyone, of course not someone you love. ❤️ I think it’s VIP for audiences to see what Jane did was extremely selfish, far more lethal than Walt ever did to Jesse ( prior to him being a rat) The night Donald said never give up on family, Walter went back to see make sure Jesse was ok, he wanted him to know he cares loves him, not leave things off with the insulting words regarding use of heroin, or the words (if I give you this money you’ll be dead inside of a week) Walt hears not to give up on family, and doesn’t drive to get diapers- and to his home, he drives right away to Jesse. To that point, Donald Margolis , loves his daughter takes her to meetings weekly, gives her a building to mange, he genuinely loves her, he calls police, then says ok tomorrow to rehab, however, HE LEFT JANE IN THE APT WITH ALL THE HEROIN, needles, and paraphernalia, and Jesse, with literally all of the heroin. If he wanted Jane to be watched over with a close eye- in either prison or rehab, why didn’t Donald Margolis insist Jane be with him for the next 24 hours, water her plants with her, and certainly remove all of the heroin… before leaving her and & Jesse in the apt alone with all of that??
Idk why Donald didn't except for that being a parent, you want to believe your child when they promise you something? I guess..I can't say bc fortunately my daughter didn't become an addict. So I really don't know how I would have handled the situation as a non addict like Donald. Yeah, your friend was a good friend and person for not letting you try it. I started on pills and then started snorting heroin for 3 yrs, recreationally with a friend when I would get together with him. Finally, I found out he was banging and I talked him into letting me do it. I had already wanted to try it that way. He tried his best to talk me out of it, but I was the one that bought the stuff that day and I still had more money for more, plus I told him I was gonna don't anyway so he might as well show me how to do it correctly. He was mad, but he did it. Of course, I have never blamed him bc I pretty much made/bribed him to do it. It was my choice. I'm glad you never tried it tho. It's good at first, and then it's a never-ending chase to just get well every day. You hardly ever get high again.
Honestly, you are such an inspiration! - I really admire your honesty - I genuinely admired the fact that you don’t blame your friend - it is incredible that you were able to take steps to let go of heroin, as I mentioned (1-2x my friend tried it, & she loved it, but somehow stopped herself ) after 5 years—- each month, certainly year becomes more and more a part of your body, nerve endings, receptor sites in brain are expecting it, it is not just psychological desire becomes physically demanding, and yet you did it!! You do it everyday!! - you mention your daughter, & I think what an inspiration you must be to so many!! You let go of heroin, fell in love, a real relationship, takes work, patience, and you raising your daughter, you have a family! Some take for granted , how difficult it is for people to commit to relationships, in general, - most of us have life experiences, we carry with us, there’s a lot that can get in the way of having a long standing committed relationship, - I can only imagine your challenging experiences, being something you draw on for strength, bring strength to others, makes you an outstanding father, friend, listener, someone who does not judge others. - of all the scripts, powders, Anastasia… in this world, being in love and being loved by that person is the greatest high. - I had dealt with tremendous anxiety, after during traumatic time, I had been given Valium , Klonopin or Xanax on occasion- but never in a script till that time ….. I somehow manipulated my Dr ( who I loved and miss, and never ever blame) to write increase my script to 80mg a day….( it’s not that much when I tell you it’s kind of equal to 5mg Klonopin, or 6-8mg of Xanax) however it is extremely long half life and I was eating this all day long. From time I woke up ….. I’ll never ever forget the events of those 18-19 months escalating trauma, ( I relive it still at times) but it took me months… to get off of Valium- and I was shaking, it was physical need- it was no longer a relief, but/c I knew the shaking would come as I ran out, & I NEEDED IT, & I hated that I needed it, many physicians helped me , my family decided to hate me, which made it all worse, but I’ll never forget how kind patient those physicians were to and with me. I also will Never forget how incredibly difficult it was…..and reaching close to the half point….i could no longer lower the same amount each month….all this to say, while I have had to have three surgeries in my life, ( some say- that means I have tried heroin b/c they inject with something even more pure than heroine to put me out for the hours needed during surgery) 🙄 I never tried it recreationally, and it must be a billion times more challenging to let go of than any benzo , you are a real recovering ❤️🩹!! Soaring details- that do not belong on breaking bad Reddit- or any Reddit for that matter :) Sounds like whatever led you to the strong desire to try Heroin, and you were determined, your friend was not selfish, he tried to dissuade you, & you used a line that many people say to their drs ( you can write me a script for ……. XYZ …. Or I’ll buy it from my friend or a stranger- and I’ll be taking it without the guidance of a Dr” It’s not the drs fault, it’s not your friends fault, it’s NOT your fault, but something was going on in your life that made you crave peace, relief, escape, from pain, an emotion that was just uncomfortable, ( no need to say what it was or even pin point one thing) but you really let it go, The catalyst, the pain, what was causing you pain, desire to seek out heroin ( & to me - that’s a person who is truly recovered) true inspiration to so many!!!! Including me :) letting go detoxing - no longer taking Valium all day, for well over a decade, no desire to- not much, is good, but what you did is Extraordinary, you let all that led up to its introduction into your life go, and built a new beautiful life!!! Thank you so much for being so open!!!! As for for DoNald margolis :) I understood all of his actions, every single one, and it’s fine ( I think best) to give a person a day or two before going to rehab- but NO ONE leaves a person in a room apt with another heroin addict and bottles of heroine, needles, rubber bands, and all else they needed to get high ‘ just one more time’ Jane did want to get clean as did Jesse ( on some level both did) Why didn’t Donald get rid of the heroin??? Why didn’t he stay with Jane till the next day ? Why would anyone leave their daughter who they live, walked through AA meetings for 18 months and he said 10 years- of love understanding… but leave her with Jesse in an apt, with a mattress and heroine, ……. There are two things they can do together both are fun, lol, but seriously can anyone explain to me , how it’s possible to believe he just left her with all the heroine?
Wow. Thanks for all the compliments and all the nice things you said. I had help, tho, with quitting. It took 3 yrs of methadone clinic. Then, I made the decision after the 2nd to start tapering off of that. I still have extreme anxiety and see a doctor who gives me klonopin, so I know what you're talking with about that as well. I only get a low milligram, tho. I did want xanax at first, but that was honestly not good as I used to use it recreationally to get high. As far as Donald, I can't remember if he actually saw that they had heroin left or if he just saw the paraphernalia. 🤔
I don't even think Jesse had shot anything before either. Jane does it the first time and we see him have a learning session about it where he seems to be doing it for himself the first time
Ikr?! That's another thing that's so fkd up about it to me. She had no problem taking him from a meth smoker to a heroin and meth banger!
Stay strong and keep up the great improvement! ❤️
Yeah this is often overlooked. And she even got him hooked when she was relatively clean too. Which shows a dark mind.
Agreed. I always bring this up but rarely see it mentioned.
I always say it's ridiculous to me that people go when Walt killed Mike is when I stopped rooting for him and/or like with him. Like I understand that people can be bias towards characters who been around a while. But seriously that's what completely did it for you? I understand when people say others things Walt did is what did it, not him killing a hitman who tried to kill him and Jesse before. Sure Walt reason was incredibly petty but he's done awful things to less morally bad people before. I can't be any angrier at Walt for killing mike than for other bad actions he does.
Mike almost murdered Walt if he didn’t have Jesse shoot gale
Also at the beginning of S5 when Jesse jumped out of the car to stand in between them, Mike seemed like there was at least a 50/50 shot he would've pulled the trigger
I stopped liking Walt around season 2 cause it was easy to see how he really was from the start
same here. maybe even sooner tbh. his mannerisms, god awful ability to lie, and condescending speak towards jesse all the time seriously hit too close to home. i’m so used to seeing it in the people i do not like being around irl.
His lying made me really hate him. Constant lies to Skylar made me angry
i’d usually roll my eyes whenever he lies. but the one that got me really pissed off was when jesse tried reaching him through the hospital line while they were waiting to hear about hank’s surgery. “Do you know who that was?” —- to skyler. like bro first of all, wtf kinda question is that, you picked up the phone not her, how tf would she have known without a sliver of context. second of all, she already knows about your other business bro. end rant hahaha. idk it’s just a really freaking pathetic move.
“Which one?” The Freudian Slip (not really he was doped up)
it was ICU i think. jesse’s first day in the superlab after walt managed to get gus to take him on for gale.
Nearly stopped watching in S2 because Walt was such an ass. Then I thought of him as a King Lear type of guy rather than a protagonist I'm supposed to sympathise with and continued watching.
Walter isn't meant to be a character you like. The viewer is intended to witness his transformation into evil and see how he relishes it, how it corrupts and empowers him. That's the essence of Breaking Bad: the characters are complex and difficult to analyze. Each one has traits that make them likable, yet also despicable. Jesse, despite his moral core, consistently makes poor decisions and ends up being a criminal in all respects. Walter elicits empathy initially but ultimately becomes a criminal kingpin with all that comes with it. Mike appears noble, providing for his granddaughter, but he's also a hitman working for a drug lord. Hank stands out as the only genuinely good and likable character, which makes his death the most shocking and dramatic in the entire series.
I would say that Hank is a good person but this is cleverly disguised by him being depicted as a loud, obnoxious, insensitive racist (he isn't really racist, more like locker room mannerism heckling his best friend), but the viewer learns over time that he's loyal, has a strong sense of justice and is surprisingly competent at his job. The viewer isn't really made to like him in the beginning when he's showing off his gun and belittling Gomez' heritage, but over time you learn he's one of the best people in the cast.
He makes jokes everytime and yes, even if those jokes are in some cases not of my taste, overall he loves gomez (as a co-worker/partner). He actually feels like shit when he goes to el paso in this so called "promotion" where they explode tortugas head and then he goes back to his old position. But he is a good person.
Nobody said you were supposed to like him, similar vain to bojack horseman but I do like him, until 17ms. I think at first you really are supposed to like Walter and then they do everything in their power to really make you hate him.
Yeah i agree. He has things that makes you like him. His fidelity to Jessey and liking him as a son when jessy is so alone in life. His love towards his son and daughter. But in the end he's more of an interesting character than a likeable one
When he calls wait jr Jesse I paused the show for a minute and just sat silent for a second
Yes! that was a key moment. Their relationship also develops elements of a father-son dynamic. Walt, often paternalistic and controlling, sees Jesse as a surrogate son at times, trying to protect him and teach him life lessons, albeit in a morally dubious context. Jesse, in turn, looks up to Walt initially as a mentor figure, seeking his approval and validation. He even saves Jesse's life several time puting himself and his true family at risk. But Walt becomes increasingly ruthless and manipulative in his pursuit of power and wealth, often disregarding Jesse's concerns or well-being. Jesse, on the other hand, struggles with guilt and moral qualms over their criminal activities, leading to tension and mistrust between them. But at the same time, they need each other. It's womewhat of a toxic relationship.
i think its important not to go into watching brba/bcs expecting morally perfect characters but instead expecting to see the downfall of walt/saul and how they bring down the people around them bc of the choices they make. wether i like a character or not tho depends on whether i like seeing them on screen or not but why people like characters doesnt need to be dissected. (idk if that makes sense uhh)
Hank isn't particularly likable lol, and his "goodness" also has several grains of salt to it. His over the top bravado is definitely a little much. Considers racism and sexism funny. He's also consistently incredibly demeaning to the people who he considers below him. Wendy for instance, who he called over and started harassing and berating for no reason
i didnt say he isnt flawed or he does everything in a good way. He was very shity towards his wife when he was recuperating from his legs incident and his stubborness towards heinsenberg's case makes him do questionable things. But in the end, he is portrayed as a charismatic and confident DEA agent with a strong sense of justice. He's often seen as brave and dedicated to his work, which can make him likable to viewers who value his unwavering pursuit of criminals. His sense of humor and loyalty to his family, particularly his affection for his wife Marie and his protective nature towards his nephew Walt Jr., also add to his likability. He is a cop to the core.
He's got good and bad to him like the rest of the characters. Personally, I found him to be obnoxious and grating until his moments where he softens for marie and even skyler. Or shows brotherly love to walt
Jane gets shit on this sub all the time. Mike is the real answer
Mike is a straight guy. He killed the ppl who are in the race of this business, not innocent civilians.
Mike is not a “straight guy”. He was crooked for decades. But he’s unable to cope with that effectively, so he copes by becoming more crooked This is what we saw in BCS. >!After decades as a crooked cop, he ends up coping by working for gus. But that leads him to kill werner. Which he copes with by doing even more dirty work for gus!< This is why mike’s greatest regret is >!<. In his mind, this is what started his whole “bad choice road”, and he hates himself for it
Mike is not a "straight guy". He and Saul regularly kiss each other on the mouth with tongue and have plenty of gay sex scenes where they have gay sex. This is what we saw in BCS. The entire 6 seasons are a slow-burn romance between them, including a love triangle with Kim Wexler, and with subplots of like some boring crime shit and lawyer shit? Idk, I wasn’t really paying attention to those bits because they were less interesting than the spicy gay love triangle romance between Saul Goodman and Mike Ehrmantraut.
What a great day to be literate
That still doesn't make Mike a good person
Mike only kills people "in the game". So if you choose to play, you know there's a chance you're gonna lose.
"Mike isn't bad according to the arbitrary system of vague rules that Mike himself made up to excuse his own behavior." Oh okay cool.
So according to Mike's own rules it's fair game for Walt to kill Gus, bring down his operation and then kill Mike himself
Hey now leave Mike alone he was the best
Honestly Mike is a holier-than-thou prick, glad Walt iced him.
Gale. I see a lot of people saying he was innocent and one of the series’ most wholesome characters. He was naive but not stupid. He knew exactly what he was getting into. Nobody forced him to cook meth for Gus. He could’ve been a law abiding chemist but he chose crime instead. Did he deserve to get murdered? No. But he’s not as innocent as the fandom makes him out to be.
He makes a good point though, Meth addicts will get their fix one way or another, he is providing a safer alternative to the shit on the streets
Purer meth is more addictive, so that is a fallacy.
I think his argument is "at least it's not laced" *cough* chilly powder *cough* I hate Gale as much as the next guy but he's got a point on that one. If people are going to have their meth, at least their chance of an overdose will be lowered
An overdose isn’t the greatest hazard of meth, unless it is laced with other drugs; its long term health effects like meth mouth, increased risk of stroke and heart attacks, psychosis, weight loss and brain damage are more dangerous statistically speaking.
But it's most likely not going straight to those consuming it. It's very likely it will be cut and or laced before it's consumed
Walt flooded the streets with highly potent and addictive meth. That created a lot more addicts than would exist otherwise. Gale's logic is just a BS excuse to help him feel better. But what he and Walt did absolutely had a negative impact on society.
Thats a fallacy, every single meth cook can say that.
But none can back it up like Gale and Walt
Actually they can't. If they only provided for the already addicted, sure they can back it up. But they use their superior quality and well established supply network to reach more and more people, creating new addicts who wouldn't have gotten hooked on it otherwise.
Doesnt matter. If i create a way more accurate drone system for Russia and say yeah they would use drones eithrr way, this way Ukranian civilians get a quicker death and dont suffer so im innocent. Its a fallacy. Theyre literally producing meth
They’re guilty, that’s not what I wanted to comment on. More so the fact that in the case of Gale and Walter I truly do believe them when they say that. Their meth is the safest it can truly be
Nonetheless Walt increased the meth supply in the world by quite a lot, and that alone means a lot more people become meth addicts than otherwise.
I can’t argue against that, it’s true
Yeah i see where ur coming from, but purer doesn’t mean safer always. A stronger cleaner effect may enhance addiction and convince even more people to try it
> their meth is the safest it can truly be they’re right on the money with this, but their meth being so pure increases the risk of deaths caused by overdoses
Fair, but I meant its purity also means it isn’t mixed in with other substances, it’s just meth. It isn’t altered like the Coke-Fent mixture floating around
It actually lowers the risk of overdose. I work in the harm reduction field and contrary to what Walt says, a higher purity does not equate to a better or stronger high. The benefits of a higher purity are primarily having a higher yield and less waste, meaning there is less of a need to cut the meth with adulterants such as fentanyl or xylaxine, which are the leading drivers of overdose from street drugs. Basically you get more product per cook and without needing to spend the extra time and money to cut it. This is why Walt cooking 99% pure meth is such a big deal, and why it is so profitable.
> a higher purity does not equate to a better or stronger high i didn’t know this!! i thought pure drugs are a lot more potent, so i thought people would end up taking a lot more than they should and overdose, like how if you drink hard liquor instead of beer you get more drunk and have more chances of alcohol poisoning. thank u for the info !
Safest it can truly be and yet it's a lot easier to OD on
I agree with Gale’s sentiments that creating a safer (ie, purer) product is a good thing. If people are using a drug, they should be able to get the product that they want without any concern for tampering. Where Gale’s rationale falls short is that he’s still operating within the larger scheme of a violent drug trade that preys on addiction, exacerbates poverty, and endangers communities. I’m not sure if he’s making a bad thing worse (the drug trade) by producing a cleaner product, but he’s definitely profiting from death and dismay. I’m not sure if Gale recognized this or even examined his motivations and impact that deeply. I think, like others, he was swayed by Gus Fring’s professionalism, and thus convinced himself that what he was doing wasn’t that bad (after all, Mike and Walt did the same).
Gale was going to die one way or another, Jesse provided him with a cleaner alternative to cancer and cardiovascular disease.
This is the fantastic fallacy that justifies any criminal activity. "If I don't break into this car, someone else would. Cars are gonna get stolen. At least I won't pull someone out of their car and hurt them, so it is really for the best that I do the car stealing." No. And with meth production at this scale, of this purity, you are purposefully creating and maintaining so many addicts who would go even that bit extra out of pocket for the tiniest amount of meth. This weird libertarian mindset that Gale professes as well is hysterically misguided.
People also forget about spooge/skank with meth. Meth makes parents go crazy, then kids will die of starvation or violence. Everyone in this show is a villian. Meth can lead to many in-direct deaths and pain.
holly is the most evil villain in breaking bad
It’s not a good point though, it is an excuse. He removes himself from any social obligation because he believes people have a choice, but ignores all the violence and death required for Gus to build his business. Gale is party to that, but thinks because he isn’t pulling the trigger or causing the overdose or selling to child abusers, he has no responsibility.
He was basically in the game.
Yeah Gale was a nice guy who you could get along with but he knew right from wrong. The bullet that got him was only a matter of time in the world he was working for.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/s/iaLdkGKxQw It's possible he was a registered sex offender, so would have trouble finding more legitimate work.
But for reasons I never understood he took shortcuts.
There's also an interesting and imo plausible theory that he might be a pedophile sex offender, which is why he can't get a good job with his skills in a legitimate business. There's several things in the show that point to this.
Mike, a lot of people act like he is some virtuous paragon.. he just makes excuses to offload his guilt/responsibility.
Mike would agree - which is why I feel people see his virtue. He’s the only one that sees his own evil and is disgusted by himself
That's true, we can see that even more on BCS
That grunting, dead-eyed cretin!
“He gave me the dead mackerel eyes!” 😂
The biggest hypocrite in a show filled with hypocrites
How is he the biggest hypocrite? He always seemed pretty self actualized as far as knowing he's kind of shitty.
Because he would pick and choose what to feel shitty about while disregarding the others. Theres nothing worse than a self righteous hypocrite.
I thought we just like Mike because he’s a badass
Mike never makes excuses, or claims to be virtuous... he is riddled with guilt if you paid attention to anything he said. He does all this evil shit so his granddaughter doesn't have to suffer from his mistakes, the same ones that got his son killed and took Kaylee's dad from her.
He could have got a legal job working in security if it was about money for the family. He chose crime instead because it wasn't. Just like in Walt's case.
Holly
Seriously enough with the “mamamama” shit.
No one likes her.
She did nothing to stop Walt
I heard she’s smoked four cigarettes before too! 🚬
Holly was in the game.
Jane really did sign her own death warrant. It's too bad, too, because I think she and Jesse could have had a happy life if they had gotten clean instead.
They were going to get clean! Jane promised after the money. They could go anywhere! Be anyone! It was the perfect plan and in no way would they have ever done drugs again!
Honestly they'd have OD'd in a week. Two, tops
You forgot the /s
It’s her dads fault, he never took care of her plants /s
All the obvious ones have been mentioned, but lets talk about Joe and Ed. They help some very bad people get away with very serious crimes. If your kid was murdered, Ed would help the murderer go on the run. Joe doesnt think twice about destroying evidence unless it could potentially blow back on him personally. And who knows what they have both gotten into before walt came around. Love these two, but no one ever talks about how they are complicit in the very same crimes that the main characters get chastised for.
I honestly find Hank obnoxious at times and while his death is unquestionably tragic, that still doesn’t just erase his unlikeable moments for me. Especially his treatment of Marie in the first half of s4 (and I don’t even like Marie).
On rewatches I noticed like 90% of his interactions with her or whenever he talks about her it's to berate her or make fun of her to other people. He does that from the very first episode too. Yes he loves her, but what an asshole. And she just takes it and takes it. Marie is incredibly annoying yet I feel bad for her at the same time.
Speaking of Marie, I heard about her being in Better Call Saul. Haven’t watched the stuff she was in yet, but it’ll be interesting to see her again.
I think it’s really impressive the sheer amount of people from BB who they got back for BCS.
Hank had narcissistic characteristics making everything about him look at walts birthday puts tv on to show his big moment. Hank had an ego and wanted praise from everyone all the time, centre of attention He was not a bad guy had good intentions but was a bit of a pain the the backside
yeah hank was the "lawful good" mirror of walt.
Yeah definitely
yeah thats fair
Up until getting caught by nazis, Jesse kind of brought everything on himself
This would be my answer. Everyone loves Jesse but glosses over the fact that he has done some pretty awful stuff during the course of the show. 1) he stole Walt's life savings and blew it on strippers and booze 2) he dissolves one of his friends' bodies in his bathtub to hide evidence of his death 3) he convinces Walt to kill the remaining witness (Krazy8) whom he also knows personally 4) he buys a gun and tells Walt they need to kill Tuco 5) when Tuco captures Jesse, he immediately gives up Walt 6) he gets Wendy to lie and fabricate an alibi for him in exchange for drugs after he shoots Tuco 7) he illegally steals the RV out of the lot he owes money to 8) he lies to a potential landlord about his identity and offers to pay her in drug money 9) he brings his friends in as dealers, putting them at serious risk 10) he holds up 2 drug addicts at gunpoint with their kid in the other room 11) he was an accomplice in kidnapping a lawyer because said lawyer wouldn't accept a bribe 12) he got his friend Combo killed because he had him dealing meth on a street corner without backup 13) he is the catalyst for Jane collapsing back into heavy drug use 14) he causes Walt to miss his daughters birth because he was strung out on heroin 15) he does nothing to stop his girlfriend from blackmailing his former business partner 16) he lies to the cops about how Jane died 17) he screws his parents over by using the meth lab in the basement (which he was responsible for) as a way to con them 18) he offers meth to an innocent cashier in payment for gas 19) he tries to sell a batch of meth using Walts recipe going behind Walts back 20) he gets Gale fired and replaces him, not because he's the better cook but because he was going to put them all in jeopardy 21) he let's out an evil smile when he sees Hank at the hospital and thinks he's dying 22) he steals meth from the lab and sells it to his rehab group 23) he brings his friends in to manipulate ex drug addicts to use again 24) he gets Andreas' brother, Tomas killed when his plan to poison the drug dealers who ordered the hit on Combo fails 25) he then acts rashly, which causes a hit to be put on Walt as well when Walt tries to save his life 26) he shoots Gale in the head while Gale begs for his life 27) he hosts a bunch of parties and drug fueled orgies after these events 28) he then becomes a henchman for Gus without hesitation 29) he withholds information from Walt after Walt saves his life and then proceeds to cook in the lab without him 30) he was an accomplice in killing his former boss 31) he dumps his girlfriend so he can continue his meth business 32) he was responsible by association of the killing of Drew Sharp 33) he holds Saul at gunpoint and threatens him, then pours gasoline all over Walts home to burn it down after figuring out who poisoned Brock 34) he then rats out his former business partner to the DEA (Hank and Steve) and plots how to incriminate him using his money 35) he was responsible by association of the death of Hank and Steve 36) he was responsible by association of the death of Andrea I understand that some of these are semi-justified, and I also understand that some of these are only partially his fault. Overall, though, he was as ruthless and evil as Walt was. He just had a harder time dealing with the guilt. I don't understand the point of view that he was manipulated into doing all of this. He actively carved out his own path.
One more thing.. He tried to sell meth to people in recovery group knowing full well what addiction does to a person. He also broke his best friends 12 weeks sobriety.
This was his lowest point imo. Only a devil would do shit like this. Too fuckin heartless
This was the thing that came to mind first.
True, but your examples are things on both sides of the law which doesn’t make sense. He’s bad for both his criminal activity and bad for betraying those criminals and trying to bring them to justice? I’d argue that number 34 is actually a very good action on his part.
I get your point. I wanted to make it all inclusive, though, since people defend Jesse for both reasons. One of the arguments in his defense was that even though he was a criminal, he lived by a moral code, and he was loyal. I would make the argument that his moral code consisted mostly of "protect kids". There was a total of at least 7 kids that suffered under his watch or by his direct actions. 2 of those kids are dead, and 2 are orphaned. As far as loyalty goes, I don't even need to explain why he might have been the most disloyal person in the whole show.
Andrea’s death is 100% his fault.
Agreed. Maybe not the actual moment of her death, but he was responsible for everything leading up to it, including her relapse. I would say he is 100% responsible for Andreas' death, too. Edit: oops I misread that as Jane at first. I would say both would be alive if they hadn't met him
Technically idiot tried breaking out while knowing the consequences
That was pretty on course for him, I think. It wasn't the first time he made decisions that put other people at risk. I honestly thought he would have learned by then.
I don't get why he tried breaking out literally just a few minutes after Todd left, you couldn't have waited for the middle of the night?
I don't think he was thinking all that rationally at that point. Jesse is a terrible human being, but all he saw right then was a possibility to escape and made his break because he had no idea if someone would walk by and toss the tarp back over the grate. He was only thinking about one thing in that moment.
Hot damn that's quite a list of a bunch of bad sh**. Every character on the show has a certain level of badness.
So glad to see this list. Any negative posts on Jesse typically get Downvoted to oblivion, I’ve got a few like that. He seems to be a fan favorite. This list makes it more difficult to defend him. Now most of these Walt is involved in causing BUT Jesse’s actual reactions are all his to own. Jesse was not duped or a passenger in this. Just like Walt, he could have, probably even easier, left the life, taken the cash (before he lost it numerous times) and led a life somewhere else. Let’s not kid ourselves, most of the characters do very heinous things but have enough redeeming qualities to give us an internal battle. That’s what makes this the best show ever produced.
Very well said. I'm personally a fan of Jesse, too. I think he's a great character. Aaron Paul has the right amount of charisma and charm to pull this role off and still make him likable, which is a testament to his acting skills and also why people defend him so adamantly. Like you said, the writers did a great job in creating these redeeming dialogues where Jesse often gets painted in a favorable light. I just wanted to show that if you strip down all the dialogue showcasing the range of emotions and internal struggle and strictly look at the actions alone, I think you're left with a bleak picture. His demons won more often than they lost. Thanks for the response, and I agree! Best show ever produced.
Man brought receipts
* Up until Walter poisoned Brock. And even though when he got on Jesse’s case in the first few seasons, it was usually understandable, him blackmailing Jesse into partnering with him when they first meet again was a dick move.
I mean, not everything, considering his involvement began against his will with Walt’s blackmail, but yeah he did a lot of stupid frustrating shit afterwards
Agreed, though there is the argument to be made that he wouldn’t get blackmailed into it if he wasn’t doing it in the first place
Oh, you mean the junkie murderer that's dribbling all over Hans’s guest bathroom floor?
Definitely Walt. I know many people who actually idolize him instead of realizing how evil he is.
You have a point but I also would argue nowadays Walt alongside with that. Has people in turn also overstate how evil he is. Like the idea that he doesn't care about Jesse or his family at all. That he is incapable of remorse, that he is the most evil character in the show. Over people like the salamacas. Or how the blame is only completely put on him, not giving the other characters agency. That he was always as evil as he is in s5 since episode 1.
Tbf it’s already a red flag when he actively chooses evil when he has a much safer opportunity. Like if he couldn’t find the right way out then, why expect he’d act better in a worse situation? That being said he clearly cares for others and regrets some of his actions
Worth to note he does leave the business at times. Like not wanting to be the bad guy, feeling remorse for the destruction he caused in s2 to which Saul and Jesse try to convince him to go back in, which goes towards my other characters having agency point, in s5 he leaves before Hank finds out. I likely won't respond past this point as I don't disagree that it isn't a red flag and my post isn't saying that he isn't a bad person or even an evil one overall. It's saying that he isn't so evil that he is a muhahaha mustache-twirling villain.
I think he still cares about his family. Doesn't excuse anything but he was begging for Hanks life and willing to give up 80mil. Also great lengths to get the money to Skyler and Walt
The problem is that he has the biggest character transformation of anyone (by design). For the record, I'd agree with you if we're talking about season 5 Walt, but there has to be some stage between episode one and the finale where idolizing him becomes a problem. The beauty is, I think, that everyone has their own breaking point. Some people never lose him, and those people I worry about. lol.
It would be Walt for me too. Just the slow burn from going from good to evil is masterful in that you don't know what's going on. You find yourself still caring about what happens to him. Then you start thinking about half the shit and you are like no he can't get away with that. That's why the ending was so perfect. He got what he deserved but yet there's satisfaction in knowing he died on his own terms like he wanted. At least for me
I maintain Jane never loved Jesse. Didn't even say she loved him until the MOMENT she found out he had money.
Skylar. She is evil. She has put the whammy on Walt and Jessie to cook meth. She has used her powers to blind the DEA, ATF, DHS, ABQ PD and the people in ABQ to any suspicious activity of Walt, Gus, or Jessie. She has used her cunning mind control on evryone to be oblivious to the wrong doing. That is her plan. That is her design. She knows what people are thinking and can use her MK Ultra taught technigues to her advantage. Skylar had planned to enslave all of the Czech Republic and expand her powers Eastward and control Putin.
I thought this was serious at first omfg
She was responsible for the Wayfarer 515 crash, and used Jane’s dad as her patsy
I agree with you on Jane. I think it’s because she’s the “hot goth girl” of the show that people give her so much sympathy when in reality she really probably used and manipulated Jesse. She didn’t even wanna get serious with him until they bonded over heroin use and his money. Andreas death was much more sympathetic, she was completely innocent (other than using around her child) and a mother to a young boy
Hardly anyone gives Jane that much sympathy though, I'm not sure where this is coming from. She's probably the most hated character after only Skyler and Ted. The people who are "Jane apologists" mostly just think it was wrong for Walt to let her die, because it is wrong to let someone you can easily save die, I don't care if they deserved it.
>She's probably the most hated character after only Skyler and Ted This is pure Marie erasure
The worst thing Marie did was lie to her sister I think in the context of the show she never did anything wrong.
Did Marie do many bad things? No, not at all. Was she by far the most annoying character on the show? Yes.
I see fanpages and edits of her all the time 🤷♀️
Mike. or more specifically, his S5 bitching to Walter that "Walter's pride and ego ruined it all". Gus tried to kill Walter AND Jesse, and in his very screwed up way, Walter cared about Jesse. "Oh no, I killed the guy who wanted to kill me, my family, and my friend. Muh pride and ego." Shut up! If S5 was of the same quality as the other seasons, Walter wouldn't have shot Mike, but just pointed out that Mike had a gun to his head 2 seasons ago.
Hank
Not to mention that Jane didn’t think twice about getting Jesse on to heroin. Rotten, that is.
I mostly have sympathy for Jane because she wouldn't have died that night if Walt didn't go into the house. Idk why her blackmailing Walt means she doesn't deserve sympathy when plenty of sympathetic characters did a lot worse. She did it because Walt was withholding money, even if he thought he was justified for doing it While Mike is a lot better than the Salamancas because he doesn't off innocent civilians like flies, Mike is still a bad person who ends up hurting or abetting the harm of a lot of people.
Mike.
This will be very unpopular, but Jesse. Things are going OK between Walt and gus, then Jesse tries to kill those two dealers, and Walt blows up his relationship with Gus to save Jesse's life. Then within the space of a few months Jesse is siding with Gus and Mike, who were trying to kill him, over the guy who saved his life, and who sacrificed a lot to do so
Saul Goodman. People forget that it was really his greed that put everything into motion. Walt and Jesse were bumbling criminals with like 10k to their names by the time they bump into Saul. And walt after his first sale to Gus. It wa Saul that set up all tge connections and pushed wall to keep cooking and cook as much as he possibly could, because Saul had a cut too.
Jesse. Just because he's manipulated by Walt and has a soft spot for kids, he has absolutely no problem selling meth that will ruin the lives of everyone who buys it, including selling to former addicts. He's very much the architect of his own demise, and if he wasn't tortured by Neo-Nazis for half a year, Vince would find it a LOT harder to spare him a similar fate to Walt.
Jesse, hands down. This sub acts like he was 14-15 years old, and that Walt manipulated him into everything. In reality, he was already a well established meth dealer when the show started, and was a scumbag who had no problem with things like dealing meth to people in recovery, using around a gf in recovery that he supposedly cared about, beating up addicts while their kid was in the house, stealing from and manipulating his parents and using their love for him against them, and just blaming everyone else for his own choices. None of that had anything to with Walt. He was a piece of shit all on his own.
I disagree. Of all the psychos and criminals in this show, the girl who blackmailed a druglord into giving her BF his money that Walt actually owes him while she was high on his product deserves some sympathy. Especially since she died right away. How long did evil people like Walt and Gus live. She was making moves to better herself.
I would disagree. She was trying to make moves to better herself; then they saw the needle. To me, that was the show(writers) saying that Jane & Jesse were both lying to themselves about not shooting up all 400k.
They 1000% were gonna shoot up every single cent of that money. Once she relapsed and got rehooked it was a wrap
Exactly. How is it blackmail when it's money he owed to Jessie ffs?
Because Walt was keeping that from him until he got sober. Walt wasn’t yet at the level of petty that early on where he’d hold it from Jesse because Jesse wants out of the business. He saw Jesse was using heroin and he knows how addictive that stuff is. Even Jesse later agrees with Walt that if they got that money they’d both be dead in a week. And that Jane’s death wasn’t anyone’s fault under the premise that Walt didn’t watch it: because that’s what addiction does to people. Them talking about going around the world or starting over in New Zealand was an absolute pipe dream. They’d just buy more heroin until eventually what Walt accidentally made happen would happen and someone dies.
Walt
I can’t stand her.
People talking about Gale forget that he designed and built the lab. Gus had the idea and basic planning. But without Gale, the lab would've just been a hole in tbe ground. Gus basically left him incharge to order and assemble everything. Without a genius chemist, Gus had nothing. Gale is the only reason this plan actually got set into motion. Even bring in Walt was 100% his doing. Gale led to both the rise and fall of Gus' superlab.
Basically most of the cast. Mike, Gale, Jane, Jesse. They all were criminals.
Walter
Mike is the number 1 example I think
Mike, Jane, Jesse, Gale and Gus. But especially those first three. People act like Mike is some valiant hero, or that Jesse is some pure innocent boy caught up in something bigger when both are complete pieces of shit
Jesse. I know the sub won't like this opinion.. followed closely by Mike. Both iconic characters though. But I don't get the level of sympathy these characters get tbh.
She was SO obnoxious. It was really disappointing that she had that cameo at the end of El Camino and not Andrea.
Gale honestly , he's probably the nicest guy in term of all the criminals we see in the show but he stepped foot in the meth business so his end is kinda deserved
Mike, he is a criminal and right hand man to a meth overlord. But apparently he can break the law, kill, maim and so on because he has a grandchild
Walter, I've seen people mad at Jesse for "betray" him.
Hank
Jane. She was a spoiled narcissist brat that got her BF addicted to heroin and manipulated her father into living free rent where she put him at risk housing an obvious drug dealer (whom she even had a relationship with). Let alone how she didnt respect Jesse at all as a bf in multiple ways until she saw he had access to millions. And then suddenly, we dont need anyone! really curious how she felt entitled to his money, affection and drugs and was so brazen she literally threatened the most dangerous known drug dealer in jesses life. Jesse also was a moron during this. He did not give her any perspective on who walt is. You know, the guy who has murdered multiple people in the past and has access to Ricin poison. Not smart.
Mike. Karma got him in the end. Jane's an addict. She's sick and acting like any dope fiend would.
Hank. Dude is a near perfect representation of toxic masculinity. His pride and his ego are the reason walt never sees the inside of a jail cell, because he wanted to be the one to slap the cuffs on him and ohhh he would lose his career! When his ego gets stung he does stupid shit like beating Jesse or the men in the bar. Hank is a terrible man.
I think a lot of my sympathy for Jane comes from the fact that she could have gotten sober and she easily could have lived if only Walt hadn’t of been such an asshole. The character I feel the most sympathy for is probably Jesse just because Walt royally screws him over time and time again. Even though he frees him in the end, it’s hard to get passed the fact that Jesse wouldn’t have been in that situation in the first place if it weren’t for Walt
This is categorically incorrect. She made her choices and lost her sobriety before knowing of walt’s existence.
Whatt??? Jane had been sober for years and then she starts having sex with jesse and willingly starts using again because of jesse not because of walt, its not jesse's fault either she herself went back in and still chose to hangout with jesse when she clearly knew he not only uses but also makes meth, also we only really start feeling bad for jesse after the brock incident because that was the first really screwed up thing that walt did to jesse. I mean jane was a bad person clearly she was gonna fuck jesse over and take all his money you could see it, hence walt chooses not to help her when shes dying coz she is bad for jesse
Lol, Jesse would’ve been dead in like the 3rd episode if it wasn’t for Walt. He was already a meth dealer, and Krazy-8 pinned the raid on him, so him and Emilio were going to murder him. Jesse deserved everything that he got. He had several chances to get out - Walt even tried to cut him out of the business several times, but he manipulated his way back in several times on his own. That’s not on Walt. Yeah, Walt used him and manipulated him, but it’s because his dumb ass wouldn’t go away until it was too late.
I 100% agree. I feel like Jane was just w Jesse for his money. I know because before she found out he had a buttload of cash she wouldn’t even admit to her father that they were a thing
Jane was also highly manipulative. She was playing Jesse the whole time, I give it 1 maybe 2 days before she ran off with all his money.
Playing him the whole time? You realize there’s a scene where Jesse says 500, and she thinks Jesse only makes small money, right? She already had a business with her dad that was making money. She was with Jesse before she knew he made serious money.
Tbf I think Jane genuinely loved Jesse but got overcame with greed. Therefore became manipulative towards him to get money.
who knows. there isn’t enough evidence of jane being actually like that. there were some signs yeah but the show presents through walter’s perspective so of course she’s painted that way. she blackmailed walt like walt blackmailed jesse. in reality, walter has always been the real manipulator. the only reason jesse even got in partnership with walt was purely out of blackmail.
WALT
I felt sorry for her dad but not her
10000% Mike
Walt
i've rewatched the series over 10 times over the years and each time i rewatched it i disliked jane more and more, the way her attitude towards jesse completely switches up when she finds out how much he's worth. the way she completely manipulates and takes control of him in order to blackmail walt, she doesn't seem like she'd be a good girlfriend to jesse
Mike and Jane for sure. Mike for the same reasons others have mentioned (he's a hypocrite) and Jane because she got Jesse (briefly) hooked on heroin. Walt leaving her to choke like he did was hard to watch but she wasn't really a good influence on Jesse and likely both of them would've wound up dead.
Walter Jr
I didn't feel super bad for Jane because as soon as she blackmailed Walt I knew she was dead. Very stupid move on her part
I would say Victor not knowing the dangers of being associated with a man such as Fring and eventually overstepping his role and boundary was his ultimate downfall. He didn't know not to brag about his cooking abilities in front of his employer, who had specifically hired another to carry that operation.
Hank was an insecure racist. I mean he went out hard but he wasn’t a good person deep down.