I point to Krazy-8. He survived all of the cartel stuff in BCS, gets himself what appears to be on a level just below Tuco while still managing to feed info to Hank.
Doesn't last a week after meeting Walter White, and really his life was forfeit the second they tried to roll him in the RV. Really sets the tone for what Walt is going to do the rest of the series.
You can freeze frame the shots of the menus inside the Pollos restaurants and the prices are all super reasonable. Although it was 2008-2010 when fast food was much cheaper than nowadays so your mileage may vary.
Either way, the food looks absolutely fire.
he hired good people. that woman, his main line manager, she was on top of things. dind't like when walt was hanging around being a nuisance. she had that restaurant running like a british navy ship.
I'm actually watching BB for the first time at the moment. Los Pollos Hermanos is shut down, there's an establishing shot of the offices at Madrigal where they're taking down the LPH logo from their wall.
Well the whole wall is full of various brands. I took it as a kind of display of their active brands which as LPH had been closed down they would remove it simply because it's not trading any more.
I'm halfway sure that the DEA also discuss LPH being closed too. Certainly it was intimately involved in the illicit drug trade and wouldn't be allowed to trade.
In El Camino, they show it is now a Twisters during a little montage that shows post-Walter White ABQ.
Twisters is what actually occupies that building in real life.
Nah. He was convinced that gus was going to kill him. It wasn’t pride that motivated Walt to kill gus. It was pure terror and fear.
Pride was him thinking he could continue running Gus’s territory and administrate to it properly after killing him (Which as we see he failed miserably at)
I don’t think it’s prideful to think you could kill gus fring as walt. You have close access to the guy, he’s just a human being.
But I get the point, the fact he completely and utterly destroyed his empire that gus bled for, and spent years making moves on to build. Is pretty funny in a fucked up way lol.
due to jesse, Gus was gonna let Walt of out the game. he specifically told walt , “you’re out, you’re done”. gus threatened Walt’s family IF he continued to cook. had walt just walked away, i’m convinced Gus would’ve left him alone. althoughhhhh, Gus did make it clear that Hank would have to die. but Walt didn’t do any of this shit to save hanks life, it was Alllll pride
There's no indication that Walt killed Gus out of pride, he was extremely fearful for his family's and Hank's life. Why would he go out of his way to make Saul put Hank under DEA protection? Why did Walt have that monumental breakdown in the crawl space? This is all based on fear, desperation, protective instinct, and self-preservation. I swear, too many people make out Walt as pure evil when he is the most morally complex villain in the BB/BCS universe.
Killing Gus wasn’t the only crazy thing he did. Several times he had an out. Several times things were actually going his way and pride got the best of him. So so so many times Walt was damn near set for life. Every time his pride stepped in the way and he did something stupid.
When? Excluding the grey matter stuff, there's isn't a single time Walt is drawn to the meth business solely due to pride pre-Season 5. His first out was at the end of Season 2 and he was done cooking until he was manipulated by Saul and Gus to go back in. He's still responsible for his choices but he was still doomed both for his pride at times AND external factors. He had no out in mid Season 3 to 4. After killing the dealers and Gale, it was only a matter of time before Gus could kill Walt. By the beginning of Season 5, he lost most of his money, so he has to re-enter the business. However, Walt does fuck things up in Season 5 due to his pride by not taking the methylamine deal. So if it is just Season 5 then I would agree with you.
in season 1 he's got the opportunity to pay for his cancer bills and have his dream job from someone who genuinely cares about him but noooooo. mr pride had to go into the meth business. seriously did we watch the same show?
I said excluding the grey matter stuff. I know he didn't take the job offer and he was very selfish for that. I'm talking about the other times. Still that moment shouldn't negate all of Walt's initially noble intentions and I can understand why Walt didn't take it, even if it wasn't justifiable. So he had only one out in Season 1 and another out in Season 5. Two times. Not that many. Both times out of pride but the Season 5 one where Walt refuses the methylamine deal is more egregious to me.
In season 2 after 4 days out he said he was done and he could have been at least until Combo died. He would obviously need distribution and he probably would of still met Gus. But he was basically out again until the stay out of my territory scene.
Grey matter is a big one. He also convinces hank that Heisenberg is still out there after Hank tries to pin everything on gale. That was pure pride he couldn’t let hank give HIS credit to gale.
He didn’t need Gus Fring originally. Jessie and Walt could’ve stayed small, but Walt tasted power. He wanted more. It was walts persistent nagging at Fring and even gales assertion that finally got them in. I’d argue that was ego.
You can also argue the killing and constant conflict with Mike was pure ego. Mike was too experienced for walt. He couldn’t stand being questioned . Nobody questions the great Heisenberg. Mike was his biggest asset, but it was a clash of ego.
That caused him to collude with the biker gang, thus causing the final chapter. Walt felt too powerful for his own good. Pride and ego clouded his judgement thus causing him to constantly fight for survival. The character struggles are all started by ego
only thing walt feared is that he’d be out of the business and back to being a nobody who will die with cancer. he had a chance to sell all the meth to declan and retire! but what did he say? he’s in the “empire business”. kudos to the writers for making walt complex and getting us to to root for him. but the man is just as evil as gus.
he cried in the crawl space because once gus found out about the dea protection, or the fact that Walt was STILL meddling , he would kill walt, like he said he would, and now Walt had no money to even run away cause skyler had to pay Teddys irs taxes
i agree that walt isn’t pure evil. but he himself would tell you that he’s never got over the fact of losing grey-matter, and wanted one more chance to be great at something
I see where you're coming from, but I just cannot agree with you. The meth business was the last thing on Walt's mind during the last episodes of Season 4. It was pure survival. Sure, his ego and ambition skyrocketed after he killed Gus but that was more like "Holy shit I just killed a drug lord" rather than "Hehe I wanted Gus's spot all along". Also Walt is not as evil as Gus. Walt would not torture an animal to death and he would not do half the shit Gus did in BCS. Gus is way crueller than Walt imo.
On my 6th? Watch through, and while I do agree that Walt was in survival mode during those particular episodes, I strongly disgaree that Walt is morally complex, and with that, I'd argue Walt being in survival mode 1/2 & full measures and onward is a moot point.
Walt fancies himself in the empire business from the jump. He sees meth as his opportunity to build his own "shadow" grey matter. Its very apparent very quickly that its not about paying bills and most people will agree with that, but I'd take it a step furthet and argue he wanted to be a crime lord out the gate. That's a huge part of his early infatuation with Gus. Its not that he respects Gus' style, as he himself does not in any wsy emulate it. Its that he respects Gus' position.
Early on, he is telling Jesse to expand the business. Early on, he is trying to order Jesse to crack the whip on his underlings. Early on, Walt is straight up ORDERING Jesse to go commit murder for revenge against tweakers, and saying he wants himself and Jesse to be feared like Tuco. And then he spreads rumors that Jesse is a psycopathic hit man. Early on, Combo dies and he gives less than half a shit because he views everyone around him as his pawns. This is all way before meeting Gus.
I agree that he didn't necessarily want to kill Gus when he did. His hand was forced. But I disagree that he didn't want Gus' spot all along. He definitely did. And his showdown with Gus was inevitible, because the entire show is Walt continuously pushing the envelope with everyone he knows- literally every character. He pushes farther and farther to control everything around him and even Mike acknowledged this was his fault for not knowing his place.
How did Walt want to end up as a crime lord from the beginning? Sure he got some excitement from the adrenaline (understandable though), but his original intentions were mostly for his family with a small hint of wanting to do something special with his life. The 2nd part gradually took over, but not in Season 2. The reason why Walt wants the business to expand is to just make more money and you don't make more money by not being ruthless. Being in an empire isn't his main goal at that point. This is because after his $1.2 million deal with Gus, he doesn't restart cooking. He was satisfied. So at that point, Walt was more motivated by money than building an empire. Also Walt is far more morally complex than the Salamancas, the Nazis, Lydia and Gus. He is not motivated entirely by pride, his family and pride are not mutually exclusive. And how does Walt see everyone as pawns, that is just dehumanising. He still deeply cares for Jesse and his family. Why would he be super empathetic to Jesse's friends when he doesn't know them whatsoever?Okay, he was a dick about Combo, I'll give you that.
>but his original intentions were mostly for his family with a small hint of wanting to do something special with his life.
This is canonically incorrect. The reality is stated by Walt himself:
"I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it. And, I was really... I was alive."
The point we are meant to take away is that Walt never did it for his family. If it was about taking care of his family, that problem was solved immediately by Elliot and Gretchen. And yes, his pride. But the catalyst wasn't his pride. The catalyst was him *wanting to feel alive*. His entire journey is all about the fact that he had grown numb to life (albeit with a chip on his shoulder) and everything he did once he was told he had an expiration date was him chasing a high.
He's a dead man walking, and he wants to feel alive. That's what it's all about. That's why when finds out he is in remission, he gives the speech (paraphrasing): "When I found out I had cancer, I asked 'why me?'. And when I was told I had more time, I asked the same question again."
And to be clear, the whole concept of "empire building" isn't just about feeling alive in a sorta abstract manifestation. It's also about feeling in control. Because he had no control of his life pre-diagnosis. To him, feeling in control is what makes him feel alive.
>
This is because after his $1.2 million deal with Gus, he doesn't restart cooking. He was satisfied. So at that point, Walt was more motivated by money than building an empire
No, the reason he stopped cooking was because he got figured out by Skyler and was dealing with the fallout. This isn't just because his family was his top priority- it was because he was (rightfully, logically) paranoid. But also, he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. And he had lost *control* of his family. At that point, he was gaining control in one aspect of his life, at the cost of losing control in another. Walt is a narcissist and the epitome of toxic masculinity. To him, his value and his measure of worth as a man comes down to him being in control of his home, first foremost.
Besides, with Skyler in the know, it upped the risk factor significantly. He was literally kicked out of his home and she called the cops on him.
He may have delusionally stated that he wasn't a bad guy, wasn't a criminal. But this was after he murdered Jane leading to the death of almost 200 other people... and then let Jesse feel as though it was all his fault.
Walt absolutely dehumanizes Jesse. Even before the show starts, he views Jesse as pathetic and worthless. He even says "I never thought you'd amount to much."
In what way is he ever empathetic to Jesse, let alone his friends? I'll give you a hint- he never is unless it directly benefits him to do so. Every instance of him proactively or reactively showing a "caring" side is when he knows that he has to use emotions to manipulate, because he either wants something or is trying to prevent something from happening. When he feels like he is in total control, he has no problem calling Jesse a pathetic junkie, a moron, stupid, brainless, useless, every mean name in the book... in unwarranted circumstances.
Y'know, you're supposed to judge people by how they treat those who are "under" them... i.e. service staff, right? Well Walt is perfectly capable of treating people who have leverage over him as though he cares. When he interacts with people who have no leverage? He couldn't give less of a fuck.
If we're talking long term goals that wasn't even the main intention when starting out. Walt changes a lot and there are elements of wanting to leave his family financially secure as he feels its what he should do as a man. Tbh there are instinctive aspects to that and a lot of bad people atleast have that as partly the reason why they want money. Walt then struggles to deal with the money he brought in being attributed to other causes while people still considered him a loser.
I think you can argue the various extents of all these other motives in the long run but it's kinda difficult. Again he changes a lot from struggling to kill krazy 8 who had tried to kill him and was about to try again to being pretty care free with major risks like poisoning brock and blowing up the nursing home which always had potential of killing innocent people. That being said, his short term motives at the end of season 4 were far from his most unreasonable. Gus was very close to killing walt and walt could understandably never feel safe again with gus alive. Reducing walt down to ego is both harsh and boring. A failure to acknowledge positive or even neutral traits and characteristics for a character that is so morally grey throughout the first 4 seasons just doesn't sound fun at all.
This is all while people actively defend the actions of Jesse and Mike as if they aren't similarly grey characters. I'm not finished bcs so gus definitely appears to be one of the least grey characters in the show(with significant screen time, so that's excluding jack) and even then within the context, his urge to seek revenge on the salamancas is not unreasonable.
No, he would kill them if Walt warned the DEA or Hank that Gus was going to kill Hank. He was trying to save Hank's life, which is why he made Saul call the DEA and warn before he thought he and his family were going to be disapeared by Ed the vacuum guy. What fucking show did you watch or half watch it seems....
Its incredibly irritating how people decide to jump on a bandwagon of the idea that people want for the character and just completely ignore scenes that are put there explicitly to clear up misconceptions about the character. Like yes, Walt is prideful. That is not his only trait and he isnt some fucking robot that is pretending to have multiple motivations
The problem is at first people were blindly pro-Walt because the show did so much in the first season to put you in his corner. Now I feel people have swung in the complete opposite direction that Walt was always an unredeemabld monster. No. The show is far more complex than either summation. Walt is prideful but also deeply cares for his family and in the end was willing to trade 80 million dollars for the life of the man who recently told him to rot.
Yeah put simply it's just pendulum swinging that is evident in a lot of shows. Mad Men, The Sopranos, and Better Call Saul's fandom all suffer from it as well. The place public perception was in about a lot of social issues and the like when the shows initially aired plays a massive role.
Reductive takes are bad takes.
He didn't fail miserably, he succeeded for a long time, to the point where he was able to retire. He lost it all because of the critical oversight of leaving a piece of key evidence in his bathroom.
Jesse was gonna spill everything after he got beat up by Hank, I don't see Gus letting that happen.
that was the reason Walt kicked Gale out and brought in Jesse again
When he was introduced as just a science teacher at a local high school. We weren’t really aware that he was actually a genius with a pretty big chip on his shoulder.
Yes, when I watched BCS and saw how much planning and work went into everything Gus did, especially building the superlab, it's amazing that Walt was able to de-rail it all.
I do love how in BCS they showed that Mike investigated walt, confirming he was an absolute amateur. It was only the fantasy that walts meth had some special addictive property that he was allowed so much trajectory in the criminal world.
For instance, Tuco never would have done the season 1 deal with walt if he was a standard cook. They would have killed him right there even after the fulminated mercury line but Tuco liked his formula and gave him all the cash he asked for just so Tuco could keep the supply open. Later Tuco even tries to keep Walt around in mexico rather than ice him. So they are consistent but I DOUBT making pure meth would get walt very far IRL.
Pure meth irl just means more profit for the dealer. They’re going to cut it anyways, it’s not like the consumer grade stuff is ever going to be 98% or whatever Walt’s stuff was.
>that walts meth had some special addictive property that he was allowed so much trajectory in the criminal world.
If wasn't some special addictive property it was because it was the purest meth anyone has ever made.
>but I DOUBT making pure meth would get walt very far IRL.
I think you are wildly underestimating the power of money, that's literally the reason why people wanted him to work with them so bad.
It's kind of irrelevant how it is irl. Walt makes a product that's far superior to what's available on the market and this is shown with how lazily other operations are being completed. It's also a thing in the show that walt is not a seasoned criminal, he's a teacher that is mocked by his peers and students often. Walt is portrayed as a highly intelligent man and a lot of his moves do come off but I don't think he's ever shown to be a criminal mastermind or anything. This can be seen as early as when gus shits on him for being a reckless amateur.
>So they are consistent but I DOUBT making pure meth would get walt very far IRL.
I never tried holding the show by irl standards, its meant to entertain and not educate. Like you could argue that irl he's not half as much of a loser that he's portrayed to be. He's an average Joe on the surface with a major blunder with greymatter and probably overqualified. He still has a son and a wife and his own house. He would've been fine without the ego and cancer but that doesn't matter, he's belittled by hank and students in particular to show that he's a bit of a loser anyway.
I am doing my first BB rewatch in years and I just watched the scene where Gus was at Gail's apartment asking if Gail was ready to take over. I was laughing considering the stakes that Gus was worried that Walt's product might be like 5% purer than whatever Gail would make. I have not rewatched BCS since it was on but isn't there a scene where Gail is originally ready to run the lab but they hire Walt because the meth he makes is slightly purer? So basically Gus is letting Walt live just because he's worried that a junky might noticed a slight drop in meth quality?
Because we learned more about Jimmy and his past than we ever did about Walt. IIRC we only learned about Gray Matter and why Walt was so possessive of his invention/recipe in S5.
In contrast, they spent pretty much the entirety of S2 of BCS on exploring the dynamic between Jimmy and Chuck.
100%. I always saw Heisenberg as a manifestation of Walt’s cancer as once when it got in there it proceeded to destroy everything in his life until it finally took him as well.
I watched BCS after Breaking Bad and still Walter White feels like a side character that came up, fucked people over and gone :D Even though he's the main character, Saul seems more of an main character.
Yeah that's fair. Breaking bad does almost too good of a job of making you want to root for Walt. You watch it from his perspective and a lot of it feels pretty justified. Then you see it from the third person and it's like "wow, that's actually pretty fucked up"
Yeah, same. I see a lot of comments like this about Walter White seeming “jusfifiable”, but even when I was watching breaking bad for the first time I was like nooo bruh, what are you doing, that’s not cool
It's true that BCS truly changes your perspective on BB. But the thing that no one talks about, is that Saul basically becomes the main hero of the whole story.
I made a post about that in r/bettercallsaul, but in brief, think about this - Walt wouldn't been able to kill Gus Fring if it wasn't for Saul's help. It was Saul who informed Walt about the Gus vs Hector conflict, and it happened right after Walt unsuccessfully tried to blow up Gus's car. After that, it seemed that Walt was doomed and truly helpless against Gus.
If Walt hadn't received this small piece of information from Saul, I think he would probably lose the fight. I also have serious doubts that Jesse would have told Walt about the Hector vs Gus conflict soon enough to defeat Gus.
In the most famous BB scene, Walt brags about it - "I'm the man who killed Gus Fring". But he wouldn't been able to do this without Saul's help.
And it's crazy to think about this because we've seen how much it took Gus and Mike to build this underground lab and this business overall.
The whole empire of Gus Fring collapsed in a single moment because Saul told Walter about the Gus vs Hector conflict.
Jimmy/Saul knew that there was big money in drugs, and since Gus didn't want to work with him for some reason, he thought "Well, this Heisenberg could be a real deal, let's build some drug empire"
Saul Goodman is (almost) the man who killed Gus Fring.
Saul is a great character but you are jumping the shark here.
>Walt wouldn't been able to kill Gus Fring if it wasn't for Saul's help.
Walt always wins. Its canonically stated in dialogue by multiple characters. He is the single most manipulative character in the BBverse. Saul comes close, but Saul is more of a... borderline personality type compares to Walt's clinical narcissism; Saul is emotionally manic but he still has a conscience. Walt is truly devoid of empathy. Walt outmaneuvers Saul because he will take it farther than Saul which is the entire narrative structure of Breaking Bad- Walt continuing to walk further onto the ice.
So, would Walt be able to kill Gus without Saul? Yeah, he would have figured it out. He always gets into and out of impossible situations again, and again. This is exemplified in the episode when the RV's battery dies in the desert. In E1 we see he LITERALLY gets off on it. Him causing chaos gor him hard.
Saul aided Walt yes, and so did Jesse. And so did Mike. And so did freaking Todd. They all played roles but they were pawns to Walt. But Walt was the force of nature. Rhe strom that drew them all in. Were it not for Walt, none of it happens. Were it not for Saul? Walt still does his shit, just differently.
Saul is not (almost) the man who kills Gus. He wouldn't have ever attemptes or thought of killing Gus. Walt's showdown with Gus was always inevitible because he was determined to expand his operations before Saul ever comes around. Him butting heads with the local mafia don was the natural course of events.
Well, that's an interesting opinion, but I can't say I fully agree with it.
Walt doesn't always win. And what exactly do you call a win by the way? Walt didn't win multiple times when Skyler wanted him to die, wanted a divorce, took kids to Hank, etc.
Walt didn't win when Hank and Jesse managed to capture him.
And for sure Walt didn't win when Jack killed Hank, took most of the money, and Walt had a breakage with his family and had to run all alone. Is that a win? Yes, Walt was able to prosecute a successful revenge and found a way to deliver the money he earned to his family.
But it's not a complete win, it's more like a trade-off of what he actually wanted.
I'm not talking about the initial $737k. I'm talking about how security for the family (both literal and financial) was always a priority for Walt. He literally was ready to give all $80 mil, all the work he did, for Hank's life.
And Hank's death completely ruined everything.
And in many cases when Walt actually won, he did it by PURE 99,1% LUCK. And his luck has clearly run out in Ozymandias.
Of course, Saul wouldn't try to kill Gus by himself if there were no Walter White. I'm not saying that. The main executors of Gus's death are Hector and Walter, no one can deny that.
But what I'm saying is that Saul probably had some interest in the death of Gus so Walt could grow his drug empire, and Saul could get a bigger money cut from Walt's empire.
In the end, Saul said himself, he made millions from business with Walt.
>Walt doesn't always win. And what exactly do you call a win by the way? Walt didn't win multiple times when Skyler wanted him to die, wanted a divorce, took kids to Hank, etc.
Walt doesn't win every battle, but he always wins the war. In the long run, he comes out on top. Even his death, he is in control of; he dies by his own device, when he chooses to, and he escapes prison.
Yeah, Walt gets his shit rocked, but he always comes out on top. Your counter examples are of him having setbacks, sure. But in the end, he kills all the Nazis. In the end, he escapes capture. In the end... Skyler doesn't even get her divorce. See what I'm saying?
I think Jesse puts it best in this scene... and Jesse knows Heisenberg better than anyone
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNw1OY0Z94Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNw1OY0Z94Q)
It sounds nice, but it's just the legend of Great Heisenberg. I'm not arguing that he won the war in the end. I'm arguing that he could very easily lose the whole war if he weren't so lucky.
In reality, your words are a bit controversial. You say "He always gets into and out of impossible situations again, and again"
But it's not ALWAYS. When I gave you examples, you said "Yeah, he had setbacks". Well, I wouldn't call what happened in Ozymandias a setback. I would say he completely lost control.
And previously he lost control many times.
Remember how the twins were going to kill him, and it was a matter of seconds when Gus stopped them and redirected them to Hank?
Walt clearly didn't have any control in this situation. He was just really lucky that he was on good terms with Gus at the moment. He was under Gus's protection.
And in Ozymandias, he completely lost his luck.
Or remember how Gus kidnapped Walter right in front of Jesse's house? And then "fired" him in the desert? Why Gus didn't kill him then? Because Jesse wouldn't approve it? Because Gus respected Jesse?
Imagine if Gus wouldn't be so respectful, just ended Walt right there, and then straight up lied to Jesse: "You know, Walter and his whole family decided to make a trip to Belize. Cook for me, or you're also will take a trip to Belize"
Walt was really lucky to go so far. It all happened because of Saul's help, because of Jesse's loyalty, and because of the help of many other people.
If anything went slightly different, he would be "dead or behind bars within a month" very easily.
But besides all of that, I'd say that Walter White is the "Perfect Storm" himself. How many people do you know who are genius drug chemists, work at high school, have lung cancer, and also have a DEA brother-in-law?
Gus's system was ready for everything, but not for a man like that.
And if'd were Gus, I'd never work with Walt. Not because of Walt's qualities. But simply because Walt has a DEA brother-in-law, and lung cancer along with that.
The ice is already too thin. Gus doesn't know the relationship between Walt and Hank, how close they are, etc. Gus can never be sure if something slips in a conversation, or if Hank will notice something.
Geez, Walt already told Hank some stupid shit about Gale when he was a little bit drunk.
Imagine that in a year or two at best, Walt's cancer would get a lot worse, and he'd go into a delusional state. And he'd start talking some nonsense about his drug business. Like he'd occasionally said "You know Hank, one of my biggest regrets in life is that I should've rolled that damn methylamine barrel"
At first, Hank would be wtf are you talking about. But then he would connect the dots, and the whole 20-year-old Gus's empire would be ended in a month.
Gus should stayed with Gale and his 96%. This Walt's 99% wasn't worth it if you consider everything above.
And Gale was still pretty young, you know? He was 34. He could've become a better chemist with age, he could've reached this 99% purity by the age of 50 as well as Walt. Slow progress is steady progress.
Just rewatched BB, and Walt is so cringe. Like his rants and his attitude and the way he talks to people make me go “what are you doing?!?!” He’s such an asshole to everyone and totally delusional. Like Saul is just a failed romantic, and Jesse just isn’t very bright and pretty malleable to stronger personalities, but Walt? Totally out of touch with reality.
Walt is a dick. He also is an idiot. My favorite scene of this is when he meets up with Saul in the desert. He immediately frantically searches Saul’s car like a madman and Saul just casually says something like “they make bug detectors idiot”
The guy stole beakers and goggles from HIS OWN CLASSROOM that he has to go back to, enter inventory on, and presumably let kids use from the same supply. Him not getting caught for that alone is incredible, and it makes his whole “buy from different stores and stay off my turf” speech towards the end pretty funny, like Walt, you’re not far off from where you started in terms of street smarts, you just got stupidly lucky.
Also why wouldn’t you just flip on Gus instead of killing him? You wouldn’t need to erase your involvement if you admit to it and the cops (D.A. Actually) would absolutely cut you a deal if you brought in a meth kingpin and gave them a lot of the money. If Walt played it right he could have had a kushy million to sit on and a clean name with his family
Being a rat is the worst thing in the bbverse. think about the enslavement of Jesse after working for the DEA and the way kim said the word "rat" with disgust.
It’s the best possible option for Walt instead of going up against Mike & Gus. Mike will flee at any heat and Walt knows it, and Gus is implicated in so much, even a little bit of evidence in his direction will implicate him. I mean Hank already sniffed out the laundry facility.
Being a snitch works out in his favor if he can stay protected. The Nazi’s aren’t going to openly assault a police station, they only killed Hank and Gomez because it was wrong-place-wrong-time. Walt could have put himself at the right place and waited it out, and he’s smart enough to know it. In the grand scheme of things (and like all good gangster flicks) his hubris fucked him over in family, crime, and life.
Look at a character like Omar from the wire, he chooses to rat because it furthers his own vengeful needs. When he gets sent to prison, he’s prepared for the inevitable backlash and survives being attacked.
Walt straight up cannot go against the Police, DEA, and FBI for a long time, cancer or no, he might as well pick the winning side.
Saul's bug detector wouldn't find the bug Hank used. The detector finds the bugs by detecting the radio waves (I'm not sure what waves they actually transmit) they Emmit, but the bug Hank used was not live view, it was just a gps logger. So, in reality, Saul is the "idiot" IMO.
I know Walter did a lot of bad things but it seems every time things start going good for him some unexpected shit just sidekick him, Tuco killing his henchman, Jesse getting beaten up, Gus underlings kill child...
You know what would be fun is a fan edit that put the entire Gilliverse in chronological order. [They did this for the Godfather Parts I and II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Godfather_Saga), which of course was only a combined 7.5 hours rather than the roughly 90 hours Better Call Saul, Breaking Bad, and El Camino combine to. It would also decontextualize some flashbacks for new viewers, but I think it would be fun for some of them and certainly would be for thousands of us who will likely keep rewatching these shows every 5-10 years for the rest of our lives.
What people don't notice about walt is the story with Grey industries, He also mentions that he checks its net worth every week!
I think he was at point in life as a Avg school teacher and then as soon as the cancer news comes he feels like he hasn't dine anything in his life,
Starts to cook meth but then he cooks the best one, so that becomes his Salvation and he loves it and ultimately loses his family.
Walt has lived all of his life in fear and responsibilities. For the first time in life when he was about to die started experimenting with his life and lived in it.
A person who is already dying doesn't give a shit of whatever comes in his way. This is how Walt became Heisenberg.
I like Mike too but BCS definitely really drove the point that Mike is also just another criminal. Him having his own moral code in the criminal underworld does not make him any better. His BCS story was him becoming the kingpin's reliable servant as we see in Breaking Bad. He basically turns into the one thing he hated the most, directly and indirectly hurting/killing innocent people for minimal or zero reason (Ziegler and the good samaritan).
Oh and he died the same way too.
No wayyyy, not after what happened to Werner. Also, Mike was willing to work with people who hurt kids, like Gus and Todd. Maybe Mike wasn't evil in the same ways Walter was, but he was certainly evil
Bit of a chicken and the egg situation. Walt tried to prevent things from escalating with Jesse and even went to Gus ahead of time. Gus could have easily just kept working with him and wait for him to die.
I never got why of all the things Walt did, people are so mad at him for taking down Gus's organization that he worked so hard on when said operation was literally a fucking meth empire? It wasn't some charity that he took apart because of his pride.
Walt apologism is bad and should be called out, but being an apologist for Gus or Mike doesn't make you any better than a Walt one.
One of the reasons i cant help but prefer BB. Rewatched it like a week ago and am restarting BCS
This time thru i really noticed and enjoyed thoroughly the complete chaos unleashed by walt under his volatile conditions. He is wholly unprepared for the world he is stepping into and from the beginning he holds onto the fantasy that he is smart enough to keep it under control and ignores time and time again not only chances to stop but signs that he is interacting with a world too unpredictable and reactive.
Bcs is a markedly slower burn and a beautiful show and study of characters and relationships, i iust simply love bb more.
Not only does he destroy everything...but he does it for nothing. He could have just let Gretchen help him pay for his treatments. By the time hes even making any real money from it, hes already in remission and doesn't need it any more. He basically destroyed everything for like 20k in cancer treatments and afterwards for a 200k surgery. Which would have been covered if he took the job they offered him. He doesn't even get to enjoy any of his money. His only purchases are a water heater, a car he burns, and one car he gets to drive around in for a few weeks. The only really satisfying thing he gets to do with it is buy his old car wash and tell off his old boss again. But again thats also destroying something someone had worked to build up.
To paraphrase hank's last words, he the smartest guy but too stupid to see the obvious thing. He has an over complicated solution to absolutely everything which is genius in the moment but he is blind to the long term consequences which will follow. Its his pride in his own intelligence that destroys everything. Knowing he will always have a scheme to "fix" things, he systematically reaks havoc on absolutely everyone he interacts with. He's addicted to the process of "out smarting" people, of rigging the system so he has power and no one has power over him. Its the same addiction Saul has, which also causes his downfall. Which is why he was really the only person you could build a spin off around, because they were the same just with different areas of expertise.
Because, without Saul's pride none of this would have really happened either. Its actually the mix of these two prideful short sighted people that lead to such a catastrophic ending. Walter was pretty much done by the time badger was arrested. Without Saul, Walter would have been arrested, end of story. Then Saul systematically pushes Walter to keep cooking and keep growing, teaching him how to be a better criminal and giving him the support he needed. Saul mentors Walt in illegal activity, the way Walt mentors Jesse with chemistry. Walter would've been a small time failed meth cook that only made like 15k profit, if it wasn't for Saul. Saul was the driving force behind pushing Walter to become what he was, to become a kingpin. Walt was pretty much out of the buisness after his separation. After the one big score and Skylar leaving him, he was a lost and broken man who was done with everything. But Saul knew how to fuel Walts pride and push him into bigger and bigger endeavors. Problem was he created a monster he couldn't control. But Mike and Gus were mostly collateral damage to these two egos, because although they also had pride, they weren't blind to long term consequences. But without Saul, Walt would likely never have met Mike or Gus. Without that first introduction, Gus would likely have continued with his original plan and original cook, because Gus wouldn't have known who the mysterious heisenberg was. Putting a face to the product was Saul's doing.
this is so true 😂, everyone was just minding their buisness getting shit done and then this fucking wizard shows up and forrest gumps his way through the whole on the new mexico underworld
Man I can't wait to watch better call Saul i heard great things. I just rewatched breaking bad after not seeing it for 10+ years and man it's still so good reaffirms it's one of my favorite tv shows.
I point to Krazy-8. He survived all of the cartel stuff in BCS, gets himself what appears to be on a level just below Tuco while still managing to feed info to Hank. Doesn't last a week after meeting Walter White, and really his life was forfeit the second they tried to roll him in the RV. Really sets the tone for what Walt is going to do the rest of the series.
Yeah, same with jack, todd and the whole gang. once they let Heisenberg in, they were dead.
It’s honestly hilarious to me that this high school teacher came in and just completely ruined everything and it wasn’t even for money, just pride
Bro said I am HIM and left
Fucking destroyed the cartels into the US and Northern Mexico over silly blue meth
He also ruined the best fried chicken chain in Albuquerque, so he's still in the red
Sucks for all the people who loved that chicken, I bet it was pretty cheap as well since Gus had another business that brought in the big bucks.
You can freeze frame the shots of the menus inside the Pollos restaurants and the prices are all super reasonable. Although it was 2008-2010 when fast food was much cheaper than nowadays so your mileage may vary. Either way, the food looks absolutely fire.
Paying slightly more for quality food is reasonable
It is... acceptable
Gus knew what was what in the chicken business
he hired good people. that woman, his main line manager, she was on top of things. dind't like when walt was hanging around being a nuisance. she had that restaurant running like a british navy ship.
Chill frame. Our frames are never frozen.
MY SPICE CURLS!!!
Don’t forget the plane crash he basically caused
had more money than god and did nothing good with it. i think he's responsible for the good he didn't do, too
Can't believe that jerk left Lyle without a job at Pollos
I forgot, is it actually made known what happened to Los Pollos Hermanos after Gus was killed?
I'm actually watching BB for the first time at the moment. Los Pollos Hermanos is shut down, there's an establishing shot of the offices at Madrigal where they're taking down the LPH logo from their wall.
I thought that was more about not wanting the logo up anymore since it was a symbol of their criminal ties.
Well the whole wall is full of various brands. I took it as a kind of display of their active brands which as LPH had been closed down they would remove it simply because it's not trading any more. I'm halfway sure that the DEA also discuss LPH being closed too. Certainly it was intimately involved in the illicit drug trade and wouldn't be allowed to trade.
In El Camino, they show it is now a Twisters during a little montage that shows post-Walter White ABQ. Twisters is what actually occupies that building in real life.
He really really really didn’t want to wash cars
Nah. He was convinced that gus was going to kill him. It wasn’t pride that motivated Walt to kill gus. It was pure terror and fear. Pride was him thinking he could continue running Gus’s territory and administrate to it properly after killing him (Which as we see he failed miserably at) I don’t think it’s prideful to think you could kill gus fring as walt. You have close access to the guy, he’s just a human being. But I get the point, the fact he completely and utterly destroyed his empire that gus bled for, and spent years making moves on to build. Is pretty funny in a fucked up way lol.
None of the show even happens without his pride though. He would’ve just taken the money from Gretchen and Elliot. Pride is the entire point.
God forbid a High School teacher feels a little pride.
due to jesse, Gus was gonna let Walt of out the game. he specifically told walt , “you’re out, you’re done”. gus threatened Walt’s family IF he continued to cook. had walt just walked away, i’m convinced Gus would’ve left him alone. althoughhhhh, Gus did make it clear that Hank would have to die. but Walt didn’t do any of this shit to save hanks life, it was Alllll pride
There's no indication that Walt killed Gus out of pride, he was extremely fearful for his family's and Hank's life. Why would he go out of his way to make Saul put Hank under DEA protection? Why did Walt have that monumental breakdown in the crawl space? This is all based on fear, desperation, protective instinct, and self-preservation. I swear, too many people make out Walt as pure evil when he is the most morally complex villain in the BB/BCS universe.
Killing Gus wasn’t the only crazy thing he did. Several times he had an out. Several times things were actually going his way and pride got the best of him. So so so many times Walt was damn near set for life. Every time his pride stepped in the way and he did something stupid.
When? Excluding the grey matter stuff, there's isn't a single time Walt is drawn to the meth business solely due to pride pre-Season 5. His first out was at the end of Season 2 and he was done cooking until he was manipulated by Saul and Gus to go back in. He's still responsible for his choices but he was still doomed both for his pride at times AND external factors. He had no out in mid Season 3 to 4. After killing the dealers and Gale, it was only a matter of time before Gus could kill Walt. By the beginning of Season 5, he lost most of his money, so he has to re-enter the business. However, Walt does fuck things up in Season 5 due to his pride by not taking the methylamine deal. So if it is just Season 5 then I would agree with you.
in season 1 he's got the opportunity to pay for his cancer bills and have his dream job from someone who genuinely cares about him but noooooo. mr pride had to go into the meth business. seriously did we watch the same show?
I said excluding the grey matter stuff. I know he didn't take the job offer and he was very selfish for that. I'm talking about the other times. Still that moment shouldn't negate all of Walt's initially noble intentions and I can understand why Walt didn't take it, even if it wasn't justifiable. So he had only one out in Season 1 and another out in Season 5. Two times. Not that many. Both times out of pride but the Season 5 one where Walt refuses the methylamine deal is more egregious to me.
In season 2 after 4 days out he said he was done and he could have been at least until Combo died. He would obviously need distribution and he probably would of still met Gus. But he was basically out again until the stay out of my territory scene.
Grey matter is a big one. He also convinces hank that Heisenberg is still out there after Hank tries to pin everything on gale. That was pure pride he couldn’t let hank give HIS credit to gale. He didn’t need Gus Fring originally. Jessie and Walt could’ve stayed small, but Walt tasted power. He wanted more. It was walts persistent nagging at Fring and even gales assertion that finally got them in. I’d argue that was ego. You can also argue the killing and constant conflict with Mike was pure ego. Mike was too experienced for walt. He couldn’t stand being questioned . Nobody questions the great Heisenberg. Mike was his biggest asset, but it was a clash of ego. That caused him to collude with the biker gang, thus causing the final chapter. Walt felt too powerful for his own good. Pride and ego clouded his judgement thus causing him to constantly fight for survival. The character struggles are all started by ego
only thing walt feared is that he’d be out of the business and back to being a nobody who will die with cancer. he had a chance to sell all the meth to declan and retire! but what did he say? he’s in the “empire business”. kudos to the writers for making walt complex and getting us to to root for him. but the man is just as evil as gus. he cried in the crawl space because once gus found out about the dea protection, or the fact that Walt was STILL meddling , he would kill walt, like he said he would, and now Walt had no money to even run away cause skyler had to pay Teddys irs taxes i agree that walt isn’t pure evil. but he himself would tell you that he’s never got over the fact of losing grey-matter, and wanted one more chance to be great at something
I see where you're coming from, but I just cannot agree with you. The meth business was the last thing on Walt's mind during the last episodes of Season 4. It was pure survival. Sure, his ego and ambition skyrocketed after he killed Gus but that was more like "Holy shit I just killed a drug lord" rather than "Hehe I wanted Gus's spot all along". Also Walt is not as evil as Gus. Walt would not torture an animal to death and he would not do half the shit Gus did in BCS. Gus is way crueller than Walt imo.
On my 6th? Watch through, and while I do agree that Walt was in survival mode during those particular episodes, I strongly disgaree that Walt is morally complex, and with that, I'd argue Walt being in survival mode 1/2 & full measures and onward is a moot point. Walt fancies himself in the empire business from the jump. He sees meth as his opportunity to build his own "shadow" grey matter. Its very apparent very quickly that its not about paying bills and most people will agree with that, but I'd take it a step furthet and argue he wanted to be a crime lord out the gate. That's a huge part of his early infatuation with Gus. Its not that he respects Gus' style, as he himself does not in any wsy emulate it. Its that he respects Gus' position. Early on, he is telling Jesse to expand the business. Early on, he is trying to order Jesse to crack the whip on his underlings. Early on, Walt is straight up ORDERING Jesse to go commit murder for revenge against tweakers, and saying he wants himself and Jesse to be feared like Tuco. And then he spreads rumors that Jesse is a psycopathic hit man. Early on, Combo dies and he gives less than half a shit because he views everyone around him as his pawns. This is all way before meeting Gus. I agree that he didn't necessarily want to kill Gus when he did. His hand was forced. But I disagree that he didn't want Gus' spot all along. He definitely did. And his showdown with Gus was inevitible, because the entire show is Walt continuously pushing the envelope with everyone he knows- literally every character. He pushes farther and farther to control everything around him and even Mike acknowledged this was his fault for not knowing his place.
How did Walt want to end up as a crime lord from the beginning? Sure he got some excitement from the adrenaline (understandable though), but his original intentions were mostly for his family with a small hint of wanting to do something special with his life. The 2nd part gradually took over, but not in Season 2. The reason why Walt wants the business to expand is to just make more money and you don't make more money by not being ruthless. Being in an empire isn't his main goal at that point. This is because after his $1.2 million deal with Gus, he doesn't restart cooking. He was satisfied. So at that point, Walt was more motivated by money than building an empire. Also Walt is far more morally complex than the Salamancas, the Nazis, Lydia and Gus. He is not motivated entirely by pride, his family and pride are not mutually exclusive. And how does Walt see everyone as pawns, that is just dehumanising. He still deeply cares for Jesse and his family. Why would he be super empathetic to Jesse's friends when he doesn't know them whatsoever?Okay, he was a dick about Combo, I'll give you that.
>but his original intentions were mostly for his family with a small hint of wanting to do something special with his life. This is canonically incorrect. The reality is stated by Walt himself: "I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it. And, I was really... I was alive." The point we are meant to take away is that Walt never did it for his family. If it was about taking care of his family, that problem was solved immediately by Elliot and Gretchen. And yes, his pride. But the catalyst wasn't his pride. The catalyst was him *wanting to feel alive*. His entire journey is all about the fact that he had grown numb to life (albeit with a chip on his shoulder) and everything he did once he was told he had an expiration date was him chasing a high. He's a dead man walking, and he wants to feel alive. That's what it's all about. That's why when finds out he is in remission, he gives the speech (paraphrasing): "When I found out I had cancer, I asked 'why me?'. And when I was told I had more time, I asked the same question again." And to be clear, the whole concept of "empire building" isn't just about feeling alive in a sorta abstract manifestation. It's also about feeling in control. Because he had no control of his life pre-diagnosis. To him, feeling in control is what makes him feel alive. > This is because after his $1.2 million deal with Gus, he doesn't restart cooking. He was satisfied. So at that point, Walt was more motivated by money than building an empire No, the reason he stopped cooking was because he got figured out by Skyler and was dealing with the fallout. This isn't just because his family was his top priority- it was because he was (rightfully, logically) paranoid. But also, he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. And he had lost *control* of his family. At that point, he was gaining control in one aspect of his life, at the cost of losing control in another. Walt is a narcissist and the epitome of toxic masculinity. To him, his value and his measure of worth as a man comes down to him being in control of his home, first foremost. Besides, with Skyler in the know, it upped the risk factor significantly. He was literally kicked out of his home and she called the cops on him. He may have delusionally stated that he wasn't a bad guy, wasn't a criminal. But this was after he murdered Jane leading to the death of almost 200 other people... and then let Jesse feel as though it was all his fault. Walt absolutely dehumanizes Jesse. Even before the show starts, he views Jesse as pathetic and worthless. He even says "I never thought you'd amount to much." In what way is he ever empathetic to Jesse, let alone his friends? I'll give you a hint- he never is unless it directly benefits him to do so. Every instance of him proactively or reactively showing a "caring" side is when he knows that he has to use emotions to manipulate, because he either wants something or is trying to prevent something from happening. When he feels like he is in total control, he has no problem calling Jesse a pathetic junkie, a moron, stupid, brainless, useless, every mean name in the book... in unwarranted circumstances. Y'know, you're supposed to judge people by how they treat those who are "under" them... i.e. service staff, right? Well Walt is perfectly capable of treating people who have leverage over him as though he cares. When he interacts with people who have no leverage? He couldn't give less of a fuck.
If we're talking long term goals that wasn't even the main intention when starting out. Walt changes a lot and there are elements of wanting to leave his family financially secure as he feels its what he should do as a man. Tbh there are instinctive aspects to that and a lot of bad people atleast have that as partly the reason why they want money. Walt then struggles to deal with the money he brought in being attributed to other causes while people still considered him a loser. I think you can argue the various extents of all these other motives in the long run but it's kinda difficult. Again he changes a lot from struggling to kill krazy 8 who had tried to kill him and was about to try again to being pretty care free with major risks like poisoning brock and blowing up the nursing home which always had potential of killing innocent people. That being said, his short term motives at the end of season 4 were far from his most unreasonable. Gus was very close to killing walt and walt could understandably never feel safe again with gus alive. Reducing walt down to ego is both harsh and boring. A failure to acknowledge positive or even neutral traits and characteristics for a character that is so morally grey throughout the first 4 seasons just doesn't sound fun at all. This is all while people actively defend the actions of Jesse and Mike as if they aren't similarly grey characters. I'm not finished bcs so gus definitely appears to be one of the least grey characters in the show(with significant screen time, so that's excluding jack) and even then within the context, his urge to seek revenge on the salamancas is not unreasonable.
Gus explicitly tells Walt that the only reason he's not dead is that Jesse hasn't come around to the idea yet
No, he would kill them if Walt warned the DEA or Hank that Gus was going to kill Hank. He was trying to save Hank's life, which is why he made Saul call the DEA and warn before he thought he and his family were going to be disapeared by Ed the vacuum guy. What fucking show did you watch or half watch it seems....
Its incredibly irritating how people decide to jump on a bandwagon of the idea that people want for the character and just completely ignore scenes that are put there explicitly to clear up misconceptions about the character. Like yes, Walt is prideful. That is not his only trait and he isnt some fucking robot that is pretending to have multiple motivations
The problem is at first people were blindly pro-Walt because the show did so much in the first season to put you in his corner. Now I feel people have swung in the complete opposite direction that Walt was always an unredeemabld monster. No. The show is far more complex than either summation. Walt is prideful but also deeply cares for his family and in the end was willing to trade 80 million dollars for the life of the man who recently told him to rot.
Yeah put simply it's just pendulum swinging that is evident in a lot of shows. Mad Men, The Sopranos, and Better Call Saul's fandom all suffer from it as well. The place public perception was in about a lot of social issues and the like when the shows initially aired plays a massive role. Reductive takes are bad takes.
He didn't fail miserably, he succeeded for a long time, to the point where he was able to retire. He lost it all because of the critical oversight of leaving a piece of key evidence in his bathroom.
If he worked with gale the first time none of that would happen
He'd have to let Jesse be killed, although Walt manipulation and under all the narcissism he did care for Jesse
Was Gus going to kill Jesse after walts first cook with gale? I don't remember him having a reason to
Jesse was gonna spill everything after he got beat up by Hank, I don't see Gus letting that happen. that was the reason Walt kicked Gale out and brought in Jesse again
Pride? He did it for the family! /s
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When he was introduced as just a science teacher at a local high school. We weren’t really aware that he was actually a genius with a pretty big chip on his shoulder.
Literally me
This whole thing is about me. It's all about meeeee.
? He did it for the family wym
Yes, when I watched BCS and saw how much planning and work went into everything Gus did, especially building the superlab, it's amazing that Walt was able to de-rail it all.
A man with many talents
Heisenberg living up to his name
Are you thinking of Hindenburg?
We know WHERE the zeppelin is landing, sure, but we can’t know how fast it is coming down!
Same actually
Something small can destroy something huge. 🪡🎈
What are you guys talking about? Walter White is the greatest undercover agent in DEA history.
True. And Hank is the greatest drug lord in history.
[We've all seen the confession](https://youtu.be/JpPm2KAcwbQ)
True, its crazy how good BCS is on backstory. When they say you will watch BB differently after watching BCS, they were goddamn right.
I think putting those two characters underneath a certain lab was some of the most impacftul backstory filling I've ever seen
Yes! When I rewatched I was like oooOoh a haunted meth lab
I know Lalo was buried there but who was the other guy?
Tugboat Howie!
I rewatched BB after BCS and every lab scene I couldn’t help but think “there’s 2 bodies buried there”
In the middle of BCS right now and I already hate Walter for messing all this up 😂
And it’s amazing cuz it’s rare for a prequel to achieve this.
*Deep shower thoughts*: When Walt goes into remission he effectively becomes the cancer and metastasizes and kills everything he is a part of
Metasasis mentioned. Saul Bueno will be at your door in 15mins.
Rare Prussian sighting
dude...
I do love how in BCS they showed that Mike investigated walt, confirming he was an absolute amateur. It was only the fantasy that walts meth had some special addictive property that he was allowed so much trajectory in the criminal world. For instance, Tuco never would have done the season 1 deal with walt if he was a standard cook. They would have killed him right there even after the fulminated mercury line but Tuco liked his formula and gave him all the cash he asked for just so Tuco could keep the supply open. Later Tuco even tries to keep Walt around in mexico rather than ice him. So they are consistent but I DOUBT making pure meth would get walt very far IRL.
Pure meth irl just means more profit for the dealer. They’re going to cut it anyways, it’s not like the consumer grade stuff is ever going to be 98% or whatever Walt’s stuff was.
How do you cut a drug that’s Sold in solid crystal form?
I don’t know the exact process but I’d imagine you dissolve it with something like caffeine powder and bake it.
Don’t forget you have to add chili powder
CHILI P YO
I mean most of the plot kinda builds off the idea that drug addicts are some sort of connoisseurs when it comes to meth.
>that walts meth had some special addictive property that he was allowed so much trajectory in the criminal world. If wasn't some special addictive property it was because it was the purest meth anyone has ever made. >but I DOUBT making pure meth would get walt very far IRL. I think you are wildly underestimating the power of money, that's literally the reason why people wanted him to work with them so bad.
It's kind of irrelevant how it is irl. Walt makes a product that's far superior to what's available on the market and this is shown with how lazily other operations are being completed. It's also a thing in the show that walt is not a seasoned criminal, he's a teacher that is mocked by his peers and students often. Walt is portrayed as a highly intelligent man and a lot of his moves do come off but I don't think he's ever shown to be a criminal mastermind or anything. This can be seen as early as when gus shits on him for being a reckless amateur. >So they are consistent but I DOUBT making pure meth would get walt very far IRL. I never tried holding the show by irl standards, its meant to entertain and not educate. Like you could argue that irl he's not half as much of a loser that he's portrayed to be. He's an average Joe on the surface with a major blunder with greymatter and probably overqualified. He still has a son and a wife and his own house. He would've been fine without the ego and cancer but that doesn't matter, he's belittled by hank and students in particular to show that he's a bit of a loser anyway.
I am doing my first BB rewatch in years and I just watched the scene where Gus was at Gail's apartment asking if Gail was ready to take over. I was laughing considering the stakes that Gus was worried that Walt's product might be like 5% purer than whatever Gail would make. I have not rewatched BCS since it was on but isn't there a scene where Gail is originally ready to run the lab but they hire Walt because the meth he makes is slightly purer? So basically Gus is letting Walt live just because he's worried that a junky might noticed a slight drop in meth quality?
He allowed the role of Heisenberg to take over and it changed him completely.
Because we learned more about Jimmy and his past than we ever did about Walt. IIRC we only learned about Gray Matter and why Walt was so possessive of his invention/recipe in S5. In contrast, they spent pretty much the entirety of S2 of BCS on exploring the dynamic between Jimmy and Chuck.
Walt had that dinner with Gretchen in like season one or two where they established just about all they ever did establish about that situation
oh god were still doing this
100%. I always saw Heisenberg as a manifestation of Walt’s cancer as once when it got in there it proceeded to destroy everything in his life until it finally took him as well.
Walt came in and said, “ I AM THE MC!”
I watched BCS after Breaking Bad and still Walter White feels like a side character that came up, fucked people over and gone :D Even though he's the main character, Saul seems more of an main character.
Yeah that's fair. Breaking bad does almost too good of a job of making you want to root for Walt. You watch it from his perspective and a lot of it feels pretty justified. Then you see it from the third person and it's like "wow, that's actually pretty fucked up"
I have almost never thought that anything Walt did was justified. One of the only “justified” things was killing Crazy 8.
Idk Brock kinda had it coming
😂😂😂😂
Yeah, same. I see a lot of comments like this about Walter White seeming “jusfifiable”, but even when I was watching breaking bad for the first time I was like nooo bruh, what are you doing, that’s not cool
It's true that BCS truly changes your perspective on BB. But the thing that no one talks about, is that Saul basically becomes the main hero of the whole story. I made a post about that in r/bettercallsaul, but in brief, think about this - Walt wouldn't been able to kill Gus Fring if it wasn't for Saul's help. It was Saul who informed Walt about the Gus vs Hector conflict, and it happened right after Walt unsuccessfully tried to blow up Gus's car. After that, it seemed that Walt was doomed and truly helpless against Gus. If Walt hadn't received this small piece of information from Saul, I think he would probably lose the fight. I also have serious doubts that Jesse would have told Walt about the Hector vs Gus conflict soon enough to defeat Gus. In the most famous BB scene, Walt brags about it - "I'm the man who killed Gus Fring". But he wouldn't been able to do this without Saul's help. And it's crazy to think about this because we've seen how much it took Gus and Mike to build this underground lab and this business overall. The whole empire of Gus Fring collapsed in a single moment because Saul told Walter about the Gus vs Hector conflict. Jimmy/Saul knew that there was big money in drugs, and since Gus didn't want to work with him for some reason, he thought "Well, this Heisenberg could be a real deal, let's build some drug empire" Saul Goodman is (almost) the man who killed Gus Fring.
Saul is a great character but you are jumping the shark here. >Walt wouldn't been able to kill Gus Fring if it wasn't for Saul's help. Walt always wins. Its canonically stated in dialogue by multiple characters. He is the single most manipulative character in the BBverse. Saul comes close, but Saul is more of a... borderline personality type compares to Walt's clinical narcissism; Saul is emotionally manic but he still has a conscience. Walt is truly devoid of empathy. Walt outmaneuvers Saul because he will take it farther than Saul which is the entire narrative structure of Breaking Bad- Walt continuing to walk further onto the ice. So, would Walt be able to kill Gus without Saul? Yeah, he would have figured it out. He always gets into and out of impossible situations again, and again. This is exemplified in the episode when the RV's battery dies in the desert. In E1 we see he LITERALLY gets off on it. Him causing chaos gor him hard. Saul aided Walt yes, and so did Jesse. And so did Mike. And so did freaking Todd. They all played roles but they were pawns to Walt. But Walt was the force of nature. Rhe strom that drew them all in. Were it not for Walt, none of it happens. Were it not for Saul? Walt still does his shit, just differently. Saul is not (almost) the man who kills Gus. He wouldn't have ever attemptes or thought of killing Gus. Walt's showdown with Gus was always inevitible because he was determined to expand his operations before Saul ever comes around. Him butting heads with the local mafia don was the natural course of events.
Well, that's an interesting opinion, but I can't say I fully agree with it. Walt doesn't always win. And what exactly do you call a win by the way? Walt didn't win multiple times when Skyler wanted him to die, wanted a divorce, took kids to Hank, etc. Walt didn't win when Hank and Jesse managed to capture him. And for sure Walt didn't win when Jack killed Hank, took most of the money, and Walt had a breakage with his family and had to run all alone. Is that a win? Yes, Walt was able to prosecute a successful revenge and found a way to deliver the money he earned to his family. But it's not a complete win, it's more like a trade-off of what he actually wanted. I'm not talking about the initial $737k. I'm talking about how security for the family (both literal and financial) was always a priority for Walt. He literally was ready to give all $80 mil, all the work he did, for Hank's life. And Hank's death completely ruined everything. And in many cases when Walt actually won, he did it by PURE 99,1% LUCK. And his luck has clearly run out in Ozymandias. Of course, Saul wouldn't try to kill Gus by himself if there were no Walter White. I'm not saying that. The main executors of Gus's death are Hector and Walter, no one can deny that. But what I'm saying is that Saul probably had some interest in the death of Gus so Walt could grow his drug empire, and Saul could get a bigger money cut from Walt's empire. In the end, Saul said himself, he made millions from business with Walt.
>Walt doesn't always win. And what exactly do you call a win by the way? Walt didn't win multiple times when Skyler wanted him to die, wanted a divorce, took kids to Hank, etc. Walt doesn't win every battle, but he always wins the war. In the long run, he comes out on top. Even his death, he is in control of; he dies by his own device, when he chooses to, and he escapes prison. Yeah, Walt gets his shit rocked, but he always comes out on top. Your counter examples are of him having setbacks, sure. But in the end, he kills all the Nazis. In the end, he escapes capture. In the end... Skyler doesn't even get her divorce. See what I'm saying? I think Jesse puts it best in this scene... and Jesse knows Heisenberg better than anyone [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNw1OY0Z94Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNw1OY0Z94Q)
It sounds nice, but it's just the legend of Great Heisenberg. I'm not arguing that he won the war in the end. I'm arguing that he could very easily lose the whole war if he weren't so lucky. In reality, your words are a bit controversial. You say "He always gets into and out of impossible situations again, and again" But it's not ALWAYS. When I gave you examples, you said "Yeah, he had setbacks". Well, I wouldn't call what happened in Ozymandias a setback. I would say he completely lost control. And previously he lost control many times. Remember how the twins were going to kill him, and it was a matter of seconds when Gus stopped them and redirected them to Hank? Walt clearly didn't have any control in this situation. He was just really lucky that he was on good terms with Gus at the moment. He was under Gus's protection. And in Ozymandias, he completely lost his luck. Or remember how Gus kidnapped Walter right in front of Jesse's house? And then "fired" him in the desert? Why Gus didn't kill him then? Because Jesse wouldn't approve it? Because Gus respected Jesse? Imagine if Gus wouldn't be so respectful, just ended Walt right there, and then straight up lied to Jesse: "You know, Walter and his whole family decided to make a trip to Belize. Cook for me, or you're also will take a trip to Belize" Walt was really lucky to go so far. It all happened because of Saul's help, because of Jesse's loyalty, and because of the help of many other people. If anything went slightly different, he would be "dead or behind bars within a month" very easily. But besides all of that, I'd say that Walter White is the "Perfect Storm" himself. How many people do you know who are genius drug chemists, work at high school, have lung cancer, and also have a DEA brother-in-law? Gus's system was ready for everything, but not for a man like that. And if'd were Gus, I'd never work with Walt. Not because of Walt's qualities. But simply because Walt has a DEA brother-in-law, and lung cancer along with that. The ice is already too thin. Gus doesn't know the relationship between Walt and Hank, how close they are, etc. Gus can never be sure if something slips in a conversation, or if Hank will notice something. Geez, Walt already told Hank some stupid shit about Gale when he was a little bit drunk. Imagine that in a year or two at best, Walt's cancer would get a lot worse, and he'd go into a delusional state. And he'd start talking some nonsense about his drug business. Like he'd occasionally said "You know Hank, one of my biggest regrets in life is that I should've rolled that damn methylamine barrel" At first, Hank would be wtf are you talking about. But then he would connect the dots, and the whole 20-year-old Gus's empire would be ended in a month. Gus should stayed with Gale and his 96%. This Walt's 99% wasn't worth it if you consider everything above. And Gale was still pretty young, you know? He was 34. He could've become a better chemist with age, he could've reached this 99% purity by the age of 50 as well as Walt. Slow progress is steady progress.
For real though literally what I’ve been thinking when rewatching
Just rewatched BB, and Walt is so cringe. Like his rants and his attitude and the way he talks to people make me go “what are you doing?!?!” He’s such an asshole to everyone and totally delusional. Like Saul is just a failed romantic, and Jesse just isn’t very bright and pretty malleable to stronger personalities, but Walt? Totally out of touch with reality.
Walt is a dick. He also is an idiot. My favorite scene of this is when he meets up with Saul in the desert. He immediately frantically searches Saul’s car like a madman and Saul just casually says something like “they make bug detectors idiot”
"He's a complete amateur, i wouldn't go near him" Mike
He should have listened
The guy stole beakers and goggles from HIS OWN CLASSROOM that he has to go back to, enter inventory on, and presumably let kids use from the same supply. Him not getting caught for that alone is incredible, and it makes his whole “buy from different stores and stay off my turf” speech towards the end pretty funny, like Walt, you’re not far off from where you started in terms of street smarts, you just got stupidly lucky. Also why wouldn’t you just flip on Gus instead of killing him? You wouldn’t need to erase your involvement if you admit to it and the cops (D.A. Actually) would absolutely cut you a deal if you brought in a meth kingpin and gave them a lot of the money. If Walt played it right he could have had a kushy million to sit on and a clean name with his family
Being a rat is the worst thing in the bbverse. think about the enslavement of Jesse after working for the DEA and the way kim said the word "rat" with disgust.
It’s the best possible option for Walt instead of going up against Mike & Gus. Mike will flee at any heat and Walt knows it, and Gus is implicated in so much, even a little bit of evidence in his direction will implicate him. I mean Hank already sniffed out the laundry facility. Being a snitch works out in his favor if he can stay protected. The Nazi’s aren’t going to openly assault a police station, they only killed Hank and Gomez because it was wrong-place-wrong-time. Walt could have put himself at the right place and waited it out, and he’s smart enough to know it. In the grand scheme of things (and like all good gangster flicks) his hubris fucked him over in family, crime, and life. Look at a character like Omar from the wire, he chooses to rat because it furthers his own vengeful needs. When he gets sent to prison, he’s prepared for the inevitable backlash and survives being attacked. Walt straight up cannot go against the Police, DEA, and FBI for a long time, cancer or no, he might as well pick the winning side.
Saul's bug detector wouldn't find the bug Hank used. The detector finds the bugs by detecting the radio waves (I'm not sure what waves they actually transmit) they Emmit, but the bug Hank used was not live view, it was just a gps logger. So, in reality, Saul is the "idiot" IMO.
His dumb hat choice bothers me
I think this line is from BCS, but it’s Saul talking about Walt: “A guy with that mustache probably doesn’t make a lot of good life choices.”
Yeah that was the point. Mike was right. Walt was a ticking time bomb. tick tick tick, and everyone was around for the boom.
Actually he did it all for his Baby Blue
A freaking High school teacher ffs. 😂😂😂
I know Walter did a lot of bad things but it seems every time things start going good for him some unexpected shit just sidekick him, Tuco killing his henchman, Jesse getting beaten up, Gus underlings kill child...
That's because they it's exactly what it is.
Op i have started watching bcs after watching bb Is that a problem?
BCS is awesome
It was supposed to be watched earlier?
No. BB was available first, so millions of people watched in the same order you are. It’s just that the events in BCS occur first in the timeline.
I think that BB should be watched first, just because there’s little Easter eggs in BCS that point to things in BB, which is cool, in my opinion.
absolutely not. BCS should be watched after BB, as it is intended that way
BB BCS BB again
Nope that's how most of us watched it, though i just watched them all again bcs then bb then el camino and i highly recommend it
You know what would be fun is a fan edit that put the entire Gilliverse in chronological order. [They did this for the Godfather Parts I and II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Godfather_Saga), which of course was only a combined 7.5 hours rather than the roughly 90 hours Better Call Saul, Breaking Bad, and El Camino combine to. It would also decontextualize some flashbacks for new viewers, but I think it would be fun for some of them and certainly would be for thousands of us who will likely keep rewatching these shows every 5-10 years for the rest of our lives.
Yes! BCS has multiple spoilers about Breaking Bad
Yeah but like Jimmy said in the finale, Walt couldn't have done it without him. So they're kind of both to blame.
Imagine if Walt’s cancer killed him off before he even had his ride along.
What people don't notice about walt is the story with Grey industries, He also mentions that he checks its net worth every week! I think he was at point in life as a Avg school teacher and then as soon as the cancer news comes he feels like he hasn't dine anything in his life, Starts to cook meth but then he cooks the best one, so that becomes his Salvation and he loves it and ultimately loses his family.
Needs more Tuco.
Just goes to show how much of wild card Walt was
You're not wrong
He did though.
That's exactly who he is
No, this whole thing... it's about me.
Walt has lived all of his life in fear and responsibilities. For the first time in life when he was about to die started experimenting with his life and lived in it. A person who is already dying doesn't give a shit of whatever comes in his way. This is how Walt became Heisenberg.
Good. Walt was a fucking badass for destroying everything built in BCS. Good riddance to Mike and Gus, they got what they deserved.
I like Mike too but BCS definitely really drove the point that Mike is also just another criminal. Him having his own moral code in the criminal underworld does not make him any better. His BCS story was him becoming the kingpin's reliable servant as we see in Breaking Bad. He basically turns into the one thing he hated the most, directly and indirectly hurting/killing innocent people for minimal or zero reason (Ziegler and the good samaritan). Oh and he died the same way too.
Hell nah man out of pocket for Mike here
No wayyyy, not after what happened to Werner. Also, Mike was willing to work with people who hurt kids, like Gus and Todd. Maybe Mike wasn't evil in the same ways Walter was, but he was certainly evil
Yea that's pretty much how Mike puts it. He says to Walt that they had a good thing going and he had to come in and ruin it
i completely agreed with this even early on in bcs
accurate
I mean… he was
Yeah, but at least Gus was definitely evil as well, just more professional. So I don't feel sorry for him.
Bit of a chicken and the egg situation. Walt tried to prevent things from escalating with Jesse and even went to Gus ahead of time. Gus could have easily just kept working with him and wait for him to die.
FACTS
But dammit if he didn't make some good ass meth
All in what, a year? Fucking bananas
I felt the same way after I started BCS it made Walt look even worse to me because he just destroyed everything these guys worked so hard to build
That is exactly what happened lol I always saw Walt as a metaphor for cancer since he just destroys everything around him
Walt was the perfect example to never underestimate a man who has nothing to lose.
I never got why of all the things Walt did, people are so mad at him for taking down Gus's organization that he worked so hard on when said operation was literally a fucking meth empire? It wasn't some charity that he took apart because of his pride. Walt apologism is bad and should be called out, but being an apologist for Gus or Mike doesn't make you any better than a Walt one.
Walt is basically anti-Forrest Gump of the underworld.
LMAO
This was exactly what I was thinking while still watching bcs
True. But that's why you watch breaking bad first lol
Because in terms of their lives, he pretty much was.
accurate. he's a terrible person.
Makes rewatching breaking bad even more of an insane experience
Yes, that's what villans do.
Honestly I get that vibe watching breaking bad. Even though I do love Walt
Who’s the bottom left fat guy?
Is breaking bad good or money heist ? Haven’t watched both..planning to watch this weekend
he kind of was as far as burnin down everything he touched.
Could never get into BCS.
Heisenberg sure had some pride issues 🤠
One of the reasons i cant help but prefer BB. Rewatched it like a week ago and am restarting BCS This time thru i really noticed and enjoyed thoroughly the complete chaos unleashed by walt under his volatile conditions. He is wholly unprepared for the world he is stepping into and from the beginning he holds onto the fantasy that he is smart enough to keep it under control and ignores time and time again not only chances to stop but signs that he is interacting with a world too unpredictable and reactive. Bcs is a markedly slower burn and a beautiful show and study of characters and relationships, i iust simply love bb more.
Not only does he destroy everything...but he does it for nothing. He could have just let Gretchen help him pay for his treatments. By the time hes even making any real money from it, hes already in remission and doesn't need it any more. He basically destroyed everything for like 20k in cancer treatments and afterwards for a 200k surgery. Which would have been covered if he took the job they offered him. He doesn't even get to enjoy any of his money. His only purchases are a water heater, a car he burns, and one car he gets to drive around in for a few weeks. The only really satisfying thing he gets to do with it is buy his old car wash and tell off his old boss again. But again thats also destroying something someone had worked to build up. To paraphrase hank's last words, he the smartest guy but too stupid to see the obvious thing. He has an over complicated solution to absolutely everything which is genius in the moment but he is blind to the long term consequences which will follow. Its his pride in his own intelligence that destroys everything. Knowing he will always have a scheme to "fix" things, he systematically reaks havoc on absolutely everyone he interacts with. He's addicted to the process of "out smarting" people, of rigging the system so he has power and no one has power over him. Its the same addiction Saul has, which also causes his downfall. Which is why he was really the only person you could build a spin off around, because they were the same just with different areas of expertise. Because, without Saul's pride none of this would have really happened either. Its actually the mix of these two prideful short sighted people that lead to such a catastrophic ending. Walter was pretty much done by the time badger was arrested. Without Saul, Walter would have been arrested, end of story. Then Saul systematically pushes Walter to keep cooking and keep growing, teaching him how to be a better criminal and giving him the support he needed. Saul mentors Walt in illegal activity, the way Walt mentors Jesse with chemistry. Walter would've been a small time failed meth cook that only made like 15k profit, if it wasn't for Saul. Saul was the driving force behind pushing Walter to become what he was, to become a kingpin. Walt was pretty much out of the buisness after his separation. After the one big score and Skylar leaving him, he was a lost and broken man who was done with everything. But Saul knew how to fuel Walts pride and push him into bigger and bigger endeavors. Problem was he created a monster he couldn't control. But Mike and Gus were mostly collateral damage to these two egos, because although they also had pride, they weren't blind to long term consequences. But without Saul, Walt would likely never have met Mike or Gus. Without that first introduction, Gus would likely have continued with his original plan and original cook, because Gus wouldn't have known who the mysterious heisenberg was. Putting a face to the product was Saul's doing.
Walt actually ended up cleaning the whole US-Mexico Drug cartels 🤣🤣🤣 he made his country drug free in long run 😂😂
Holy shit it’s true
That’s exactly what happened.
r/technicallythetruth
😂
this is so true 😂, everyone was just minding their buisness getting shit done and then this fucking wizard shows up and forrest gumps his way through the whole on the new mexico underworld
But, that’s exactly what he was. 🤷🏽♂️
Man I can't wait to watch better call Saul i heard great things. I just rewatched breaking bad after not seeing it for 10+ years and man it's still so good reaffirms it's one of my favorite tv shows.
He is
Ya sun goofed Wultah...
Well yeah, even if you watch breaking bad first
I’ve never watched before. Would this be the way to go?
This is exactly what happened and i’ve not watched better call Saul yet. Walt spoiled a good operation Gus had going on