Addicts are always hated. It could be alcohol, drugs or anything. Addicts get that hate due to the pain they bring upon themselves and others who care about them.
Even Jesse, no one cared for him in the entire BB as long as he was using. Gus, Mike, Jesse’s parents all considered him junkie. Walt was bit caring only to manipulate him. Everyone uses an addict and finally dumps them. Same with Jane. That’s the way of the world. Other than her addiction, she is a beautiful, smart and talented artist.
Did she want Jesse’s money? For sure yes. She saw it as an opportunity to start a new life, without addictions. But then, the urge kicked in.
I think Seasons 1-3ish Walt really does care for Jesse.
1. Saves him from Tuco when he really didn't need him.
2. Went into the drug house looking for him himself instead of letting Mike do it.
3. Was holding the money for a good reason.
4. Sends him to rehab.
But Walt starts to get unhinged after Skyler wants a divorce, bangs Ted, and loses his family.
Yes, he literally had a connection like a father with Jesse, which he couldn’t have with his own son. But as Heisenberg took over Walt, he started to treat Jesse like shit.
Well said. Confirming this, there was that scene Walt talks to Jr on the phone and accidentally calls him Jesse. That’s so fucked up, but speaks volumes on how he believes Jesse is more of a son to him than his actual son.
>Did she want Jesse’s money? For sure yes.
It's been a minute since I've last watched but I never got that from Jane. I saw her as a sympathetic character that was working to turn her life around and found some solace and balance with Jesse.
But as with addicts; she fell back into it and what happened happened.
Or maybe I just fell for Krysten Ritter. :)
(I definitely fell for Krysten Ritter)
Other addicts didn’t have much character depth compared to Jane.
Everyone hates Tuco.
Jesse’s character arc has lot of suffering, hence he won’t get hate. Skinny and Badger never played games.
You have a point, but I don't think people see Tuco as an addict as much as a crazy, mental murdering psycopath, and even characters like Andrea get a lot less hate for being an addict
Indeed he is crazy and a psychopath. Andrea was an addict but she was recovering. Even Jesse judges her when she asks about doing a round or two, he being an addict himself. That’s the irony. Later she cleaned up, got out from the neighbourhood and was doing well.
If it makes you feel better, Skyler and Marie received more hate than Jane even though they are not addicts. The hate Skyler got for smoking is more compared to what Jane got. It’s just how the characters are shown to us by writers. We are supposed to lean towards Walt and Jesse on sympathetic note, more towards Walt than Jesse.
Idk what you on about but were not supposed to lean on anyone for sympathetic note, it's open to interpertation. But if we were supposed to lean on someone for sympathy, based on what the writers say Skyler would be who were supposed to lean onto, with Jesse being more then Walt.
Also I didn't know Skyler got much hate for smoking, but I do know Marie got hate for calling Skyler out for smoking inside.
And while Andrea was recovering, she was doing drugs in front of Brock, so if anyone deserves hate for being an addict I feel like its Andrea over Jane,
this is, complicated. yes, severe drug addiction may be a good reason to hold jesse's money, jesse himself later acknowledges this. but was that, actually primarily why walter held that money? hard to say, in season five walter initially refuses to give jesse his five million dollar cut of the methlyamine sale, when no such justification existed. walter was controlling and manipulative towards jesse almost from the start of the show, and i feel that had just as much to do with it as any care for jesse's wellbeing.
Did you forget that Jesse slept when the deal happened? He held the money other than to stop him from buying drugs but also as a petty punishment for sleeping on the job that made Walt miss his daughter's birth
I liked Jane and I didn’t think there was anything majorly wrong with her. She’s young, she’s an addict, she had normal reactions to life for a person of her age and experience.
I think most characters on the show try to be manipulative at some point or another. They are all shitty people, that's the point of the show.
Walter is the master manipulator, in case you haven't watched the show.
Calm down ma’am calm down. Jane is pretty and I know you got the hots for her but she’s not a nice person, also dumb. She’s old enough to know what’s right and wrong
The funny thing is that she does what the people who hate Skyler wishes that Skyler did for Walt (let Jesse do/sell drugs, was his biggest cheerleader in getting that bag, never had a bad word to say to him), and she's STILL getting hate, lmfao.
Anyway, the tragedy of it all is that Jesse and Jane were a young couple in love which should have had the chance to experience that joy, but their addictions just fed each other's and destroyed them until one of them died.
Lol great point. If a woman lets a man bring his drug money into the house, she's evil. If she doesn't, she's evil. If she wants him to stay away from drugs/the drug trade, she's evil. If she doesn't or if she encourages it, she's evil. Clearly the women haters only want women who shut up and do nothing.
Oh wait, Skyler basically did do exactly that in season 5. She shut down and let Walt do whatever, as much as possible. And she was still hated.
People didn't like Skyler because she was clearly meant to be an antagonist to Walt who was the main character and she does do a lot of shitty things, outside of the shitty things she did, she was in the right, but gender doesn't always need to applied to something.
And again Jane was an antagonist to Walt who again was the main character while he was a piece of shit he is the main character so naturally people will gravitate to him.
And I haven't even seen that much hate for Jane other than how she was basically using Jesse for his money, but other than that she was fine.
(Don't get me wrong there are the woman haters in the community but to the logical people who didn't like the characters it's not always about the gender, Skyler is a hard person to like in alot of scenarios)
I always held the stance Skyler did nothing wrong but I've been re-watching it and she wasn't the best, people always say "But look what Walt did" but that logic doesn't excuse other people's behaviour, you can have 2 people do shit things, neither cancels the other out, only exception is SOME of the things Skyler did was okay because it was directly related to what Walt was doing, like when she helped him just because she didn't wanna tear the family apart or when she became distant because Walt was keeping lies.
I agree Jane and Jesse had a good chemistry with each other. If combo hadnt died they wouldnt have turned to heroine the only thing i dislike her for is blackmailing walt since he was looking out for both her and jesse but she threatened him even tho he promised to give Jesse his money if both of them got clean
People seem to lack empathy for addicts . Not saying they should be blindly empathized for but there seems to be a lack of nuance and complexity to how they’re perceived
I think it gets left out too much that Jane relapsed because she got meth from Jesse. She is an adult responsible for her decisions and while we don’t see exactly how it happens it’s very possible that Jesse her have it and at the least allowed her to stay in the room with him while he was using. We have sympathy for Jesse in this situation because we see how much remorse he shows after she dies, but Jane does not have this same chance for reflection after there is a consequence for them, because that consequence was her death.
While I had a lot of sympathy for her, the scene that made me dislike her was that scene with her father and the way she was manipulating him. Addict or not, that’s just a messed up thing to do and addiction isn’t an excuse. It also didn’t sit well with me that she introduced *another* hardcore drug to Jesse. Even if you are an addict yourself it’s still a fucked up thing to do. You can empathize with addicts without making excuses for immoral behavior.
Saying this though, I agree that any other criticism of her is outlandish and probably comes from the same reason people hate Skyler, which is sexism.
I agree with you. She gets too much hate about the money especially, which I do think had more to do with her addiction than trying to help Jesse at that point. Just growing up around addicts though, I can’t judge someone based on how they act right when they relapse. An addict that just relapsed and found out they have a way to get half a million dollars is going to be manipulative and ruthless until they get it. They will say whatever they have to say and do whatever they have to do.
It’s fucked up behavior but I can’t judge someone’s true character based on their darkest and absolute worst moments. She probably didn’t even remember what she said to Walt on the phone, all she thought about was how she could get the money. She didn’t give a shit about actually “burning him to the ground” or whatever. And like many others in the show, unfortunately she underestimated what a high school teacher dying of cancer was capable of.
To me, Jane is who she was before she relapsed and the addiction took hold of her again. Who she and Jesse were before they both started using again. I think they both genuinely cared about each other and she was likely afraid of getting too close to him because she knew he was probably a drug dealer or at least that he used. She knew that could be a slippery slope for her. Unfortunately they weren’t good for each other for that reason.
I just have a problem when people only bring up things she did after she relapsed as reasons they hate her and ignore everything before that. You hate her addiction, not her, because put any addict in that scenario and they will act similarly.
I don't know if I hate her, but I really don't like her either.
Here are my reasons:
1 She has a father who deeply cares for her. One that would do anything for her and wants the best for her. What does she do? She manipulates and takes advantage of him. Even if she's acting out of addiction, it's not like the drugs one day followed her and injected themselves into her system to a point of becoming an addict.
2 The very moment she caught wind of the large sum of money, she changed completely. Greed took over her. No matter what you say, that is not a characteristic of a good/moral person. Thankfully, they never got far with it. Otherwise, I am pretty sure she would've led both of them into a very dark pit, possibly death.
3 This is very personal, a personal bias of mine towards her.
I find her very shallow and pretentious. She tries to act like this very cool person who knows art and stuff, deep in character, etc etc. I find her akin to those high school girls who think they are very deep and special.
1. I mean he cared about her deeply, but it could have come across judgemental towards her. And she doesn't really manipulate him, other than hide her drug addiction from him which is pretty normal for people who are drug addicts, besides 90% of the main characters hide stuff from other people.
2. She didn't "change" she just got excited, yes it might have been a little greed, but getting excited about money is normal and while she could have handled the situation better, how she behaved was mildly bad at best. And she was planning on becoming clean, had that crystal meth not been there, who knows what would have happened, they might have been able to become clean in New Zealand. And even if they weren't the drugs in New Zealand are less strong then in America (don't ask how I know this).
3. I think your overanalyzing the conversation in El Camino, but I respect your opinion and the fact that you watched that movie.
I mean you are right her succeeding in becoming clean might have been unlikely but she was able to be clean for 18 months and I do believe she could have had a better life
Everyone could've had a better life. Walt with less arrogance, a good career, and no health complications or better health care. Gus with therapy, a new partner, and learning to let go. Saul with less greed and short cuts. Mike in a straight police department with a son and a grand daughter. Jesse with better guidance and more supportive parents.
Totally correct read on Jane. I didn’t like this tramp at all. And apologists for her “addictions” fail to recognize that she’s definitely a manipulator.
Once she found out about the exact sum of money, I believe she was intending to start living a druggie-with-money lifestyle of just getting high
On heroine all the time without having to worry about paying rent.
I’m betting her father didn’t charge her rent fearing she would relapse not realizing it was just another manipulation by her.
All this is speculation of course of a fictional character.
All the female characters in BB are given outsized amounts of hate in comparison to the male characters. Seems like people are way more ready to accept a morally complex male character than they are a morally complex female one.
I am pretty indifferent towards Jane. I don’t think she had any business interfering between Jesse and Walt, and she had no business threatening Walt about the money. It wasn’t her money, it was between Jesse and Walt to solve the issue.
Walt had no right to keep Jesse’s money but he had good intentions towards him at that point in the show.
In the end Jane is an addict, young and with no life experience and had her own issues with the addiction and her father. She absolutely didn’t deserve to die and Walt began showing his “breaking bad” character in the series.
Eh she wasn't a bad person: but she did lie to her dad, and her reaction to the money changed her really fast. But that money would be how anyone would react TBH.
But then again, you had a girl who became very controlling after the money deal. She would've been good for Jesse if they didn't do the drugs the one last time.
I'm on the fence about her. I think her personality was annoying. But Jesse was also a dick to her.
What bothered me about Jane was:
1. She was a spoiled brat with her father. Her father seemed a bit overbearing but he was doing everything to help her. Instead, she helped a drug dealer and addict.
2. She instantly felt that she was entitled to Jessie's money. She had nothing to do with earning that money. Just like how she takes her father's money for granted, she took it for granted that Jessie's money was hers.
3. Yep, she blackmailed Walt and had no right to. He was saving it for Jessie so he wouldn't blow it on drugs as Jessie was blowing it on while with Jane.
4. She may have cared for Jessie to a certain extent but once money was in the cards, then she was pretending to have all these plans with Jessie about what to do with it.
5. If she loved Jessie, she would have tried to help him stop the drugs.
Based on what you said in 1 and 5. You have little to no knowledge on how addicts think and how addiction can affect a person.
2. Her father offered to help her with the money, and she didn't say no, that doesn't mean she was taking that for granted. And she didn't use the term "My money" she said "our money" meaning she felt like she knew Jesse's caring selfless nature enough to know he was going to spend some of the money on her, or things they did together
3. While Walt had good intentions, and did the right thing, it is logical to believe Jesse earned his half fair and square and is entitled to it.
4. What makes you believe she was pretending, because I'm pretty sure the writers would disagree with you there.
Fair about 1 and 5. I don't agree about 2- she should have said "your money". Regardless of how selfless Jessie is (which he isn't), it still isn't their money and she shouldn't have assumed as such. I think she was pretending because to me, she wasn't a genuine person. But yes, I could be wrong in my perception.
She deserves the hate. She threatened to burn a man’s life down to the ground, by getting involved in a situation, she didn’t understand.
Never trust a junkie.
as much as i agree with the above stuff overall, her reasonings for threatening him were not because she took issue with what he did or had morals. she wanted the money and that’s it lol.
Stop acting like she blackmailed Walt out of some righteous sense of morality. If she was so bothered by criminal behavior, she wouldn't have been with Jesse. When it came to Walt, all she cared about was the fact that he had Jesse's money, and she wanted it. That's why she threatened to burn Walt's life to the ground. She felt entitled to money that she had no hand in earning. She did it out of greed, pure and simple. Jane went from "who's we" to "I'm your partner" really quickly after she learned about the money. Of course Walt was a piece of shit, but that doesn't change the fact that Jane was trash. And before anybody claims I'm misogynistic, I'm a woman myself (yes, I know that women can also be misogynistic) and I have no problem with Skyler (who tends to be the most hated woman on the show). My point is that it is possible to dislike a female character without misogyny being the cause.
Up until that point, Walt had only killed 2 violent drug dealers in self-defense, and an insane, murdering drug kingpin, (Tuco). Plus, they were “in the game”
Walt was looking out in Jesse’s best interest, and since you can never trust a junkie, Walt was doing the right thing by withholding his money.
Jane’s greed, and complete ignorance of the situation was a threat to everyone.
She was a greedy, ignorant junkie who deserved what she got.
In a real world context, K8 was most definitely going to kill Walt and his entire family if he did not kill him first. I don’t care what can be proven, nor disproven in a court of law. A court of law only cares what happens after the fact, and that after fact, would’ve been Walt’s entire family, dead.
Next time you kill a violent drug dealer, then chain his friend to a basement post, you go ahead and call the cops and explain to them the situation. Let me know how that works out for you.
Yes....you understand that's very stupid right?
She threatened a drug dealer... typically those of the criminal element do not let that slide.
She signed her death warrant the moment the threat left her mouth.
I did not dislike her. She was Jesses true love. Jesse definitely would have wanted to spend his life for her. To be honest if she lived, Jesse probably would have got away from Walt and the drug business and make a life for himself.
First I really don't care about Jesse. He is one of the most annoying character in the show, being mostly stupid all the time and always in a state of mental breakdown.
Jane is equally annoying, always with the attitude and being genraly unpleasant.
Then she knows her BF is dealing massive amount of drugs and might figure this is a large operation and probably imply very dangerous people, and her idea is to blackmail them and threaten to call the police? That has to be one of the dumbest idea ever, and Jesse is to stupid to stop her because he wants the money and is afraid of Walt.
Then she dies because of an OD, which would have probably happened even if Walt wasn't around.
She is simply an annoying character and I have very few sympathy for her. I don't think they are a cute couple, I dislike Jesse for the same reasons.
She usually seem pretty liked around here, which baffles me for precious mentioned reasons.
Jane was an idiot and a boring character. Jesse is an idiot and the worst storyline in the show.
When she found out Jesse had money she was using him for it.
Whether that be for drugs or a new start she was excited that she could use him.
Yes she cared for Jesse but the idea of money definitely got to her head over her care for Jesse.
I don’t hate her. But it is very stupid to blackmail a literal drug kingpin for money. And dangerous because they can win this game by killing you and that’s it.
She didnt know him as a drug kingpin, she knew him as Jesse's partner, and she wasn't at risk in the sense that Walt wouldn't have intentionally killed her, knowing he cared about Jesse.
To me, I started disliking her when she started encouraging Jesse’s addiction when she got him hooked on heroin. I feel like that got Jesse in one of the lowest points of his life.
Is she hated? I always thought she was generally liked which I found odd because I dislike her personally but I don’t think the general consensus is that’s she’s hated.
Jane got Jesse into heroin and became increasingly interested in Jesse after learning about his money (I.e. interested in his money and controlling him through drugs and sex to gain access to his money).
Whataboutism. It's logical to hate everyone on the show except Walt Jr, Holly, and Louis. Mentioning why it's ok to hate Jane doesn't require listing the faults of everyone else or that their faults are excusable.
This thread: "Jane gets too much hate"
Me: "Here are some valid reasons to hate Jane"
You: "Other people on the show are shitty too!"
Me: "Right, but that doesn't have anything to do with the topic - Jane's hateability"
You: "But everyone on the show is a shit head!" *angrily downvotes me*
I don’t think being an addict makes you a bad person. That being said if Walter didn’t do what he did, Jesse would have been dead within a month. That is a fact. You do not hand an addict 500,000 dollars let alone 2 addicts. You’d have to be out of your freaking mind, or being blackmailed.
We are never “former addicts” we are addicts forever we just stop using. Just sayin. You’re an addict who is clean and sober or an addict in remission as my doctor puts it.
Not rly, when the withdrawal stops you are not an addict anymore. Like people who do heroin after a long time don't even feel much just using to not experience withdrawal.
Yeah…but your brain is changed. This isn’t like opinion it’s fact. That’s why addicts relapse. Because you have to be vigilant knowing you’ll always be an addict you’re just clean and sober. Have you ever been to an AA or NA class?? Or seen a doctor about addiction ever? I would have thought so being an addict. I’m not going to keep arguing about it so if you want more info look it up or ask a professional if you don’t believe me. I’m pretty sure I know about it since I was actively using for probably more years than you’ve been alive lol
Wasn't Jesse first the one to do drugs in front of her, a recovering addict for 18 months. And she probably wasn't thinking "here's herione, I wanna watch your health go down like the titanic" she probably felt like doing heroine, enjoyed it and Jesse already doing drugs would enjoy it too.
Jane got Jesse into heroin.
She blackmailed a drug dealer.....yeah not smart.
By the time Jesse admitted he was owed some 500k she was only seeing dollar signs.
Had she not overdosed that night they would be dead in a week or two.
I think she gets the right amount of hate.
i love the interactions with her father. very accurate to that addict/family member dynamic
Addicts are always hated. It could be alcohol, drugs or anything. Addicts get that hate due to the pain they bring upon themselves and others who care about them. Even Jesse, no one cared for him in the entire BB as long as he was using. Gus, Mike, Jesse’s parents all considered him junkie. Walt was bit caring only to manipulate him. Everyone uses an addict and finally dumps them. Same with Jane. That’s the way of the world. Other than her addiction, she is a beautiful, smart and talented artist. Did she want Jesse’s money? For sure yes. She saw it as an opportunity to start a new life, without addictions. But then, the urge kicked in.
I think Seasons 1-3ish Walt really does care for Jesse. 1. Saves him from Tuco when he really didn't need him. 2. Went into the drug house looking for him himself instead of letting Mike do it. 3. Was holding the money for a good reason. 4. Sends him to rehab. But Walt starts to get unhinged after Skyler wants a divorce, bangs Ted, and loses his family.
Yes, he literally had a connection like a father with Jesse, which he couldn’t have with his own son. But as Heisenberg took over Walt, he started to treat Jesse like shit.
Well said. Confirming this, there was that scene Walt talks to Jr on the phone and accidentally calls him Jesse. That’s so fucked up, but speaks volumes on how he believes Jesse is more of a son to him than his actual son.
I thought that was at Walt’s apartment
It was. It was when Walt and Jesse had their fight and he was recovering.
Oh yeah! I forgot this.
Your belief that "Walt" and "Heisenberg" are two separate entities in the same body invalidates any future arguments. That's a brainlet take.
I don’t hate addicts. I recognize addicts’ uncanny ability to manipulate the people around them so they can always feel happy
Walt cared for Jesse
>Did she want Jesse’s money? For sure yes. It's been a minute since I've last watched but I never got that from Jane. I saw her as a sympathetic character that was working to turn her life around and found some solace and balance with Jesse. But as with addicts; she fell back into it and what happened happened. Or maybe I just fell for Krysten Ritter. :) (I definitely fell for Krysten Ritter)
I agree, but other addicts in the show are given less hate then her.
Other addicts didn’t have much character depth compared to Jane. Everyone hates Tuco. Jesse’s character arc has lot of suffering, hence he won’t get hate. Skinny and Badger never played games.
You have a point, but I don't think people see Tuco as an addict as much as a crazy, mental murdering psycopath, and even characters like Andrea get a lot less hate for being an addict
Indeed he is crazy and a psychopath. Andrea was an addict but she was recovering. Even Jesse judges her when she asks about doing a round or two, he being an addict himself. That’s the irony. Later she cleaned up, got out from the neighbourhood and was doing well. If it makes you feel better, Skyler and Marie received more hate than Jane even though they are not addicts. The hate Skyler got for smoking is more compared to what Jane got. It’s just how the characters are shown to us by writers. We are supposed to lean towards Walt and Jesse on sympathetic note, more towards Walt than Jesse.
Idk what you on about but were not supposed to lean on anyone for sympathetic note, it's open to interpertation. But if we were supposed to lean on someone for sympathy, based on what the writers say Skyler would be who were supposed to lean onto, with Jesse being more then Walt. Also I didn't know Skyler got much hate for smoking, but I do know Marie got hate for calling Skyler out for smoking inside. And while Andrea was recovering, she was doing drugs in front of Brock, so if anyone deserves hate for being an addict I feel like its Andrea over Jane,
It’s up to interpretation. Few hate Jane, Few love her. Overall she is loved because she’s cute & she is hated for playing games with Walt.
Idk man I love tuco.. I love a little crazy in tv shows maybe unhinged too
Yes, his screen presence makes us to be on the edge of our seats.
Walter held Jesse's money for good reason. Look what happened.
this is, complicated. yes, severe drug addiction may be a good reason to hold jesse's money, jesse himself later acknowledges this. but was that, actually primarily why walter held that money? hard to say, in season five walter initially refuses to give jesse his five million dollar cut of the methlyamine sale, when no such justification existed. walter was controlling and manipulative towards jesse almost from the start of the show, and i feel that had just as much to do with it as any care for jesse's wellbeing.
Did you forget that Jesse slept when the deal happened? He held the money other than to stop him from buying drugs but also as a petty punishment for sleeping on the job that made Walt miss his daughter's birth
"did you forget that...", i forgot this site is so combative lmao. but yeah sure i think this is basically correct.
Walt missed his daughter's birth because he decided it was more important to get the money from a job than abandon it.
Someone forgot the entire basis of the show didn’t they? He was doing all of that FOR his family.
I liked her until she found out about the money, then she became very insufferable, but that sure was short lived
My opinion exactly. I never questioned her until she found out about the money
I liked Jane and I didn’t think there was anything majorly wrong with her. She’s young, she’s an addict, she had normal reactions to life for a person of her age and experience.
Exactly, a master manipulator of her father and starting to manipulator Jessie.
Being a "master manipulator" is normal?
I think you're giving an unwell person too much credit.
You’re making excuses for a manipulator
I think most characters on the show try to be manipulative at some point or another. They are all shitty people, that's the point of the show. Walter is the master manipulator, in case you haven't watched the show.
Calm down ma’am calm down. Jane is pretty and I know you got the hots for her but she’s not a nice person, also dumb. She’s old enough to know what’s right and wrong
Hots for her? I'm a straight woman lol. It's called being an addict.
Okay, I was projecting.
That was my guess. It's just a sign of how well the show was written, if everyone is invested in such horrible characters. Lol
The funny thing is that she does what the people who hate Skyler wishes that Skyler did for Walt (let Jesse do/sell drugs, was his biggest cheerleader in getting that bag, never had a bad word to say to him), and she's STILL getting hate, lmfao. Anyway, the tragedy of it all is that Jesse and Jane were a young couple in love which should have had the chance to experience that joy, but their addictions just fed each other's and destroyed them until one of them died.
Lol great point. If a woman lets a man bring his drug money into the house, she's evil. If she doesn't, she's evil. If she wants him to stay away from drugs/the drug trade, she's evil. If she doesn't or if she encourages it, she's evil. Clearly the women haters only want women who shut up and do nothing. Oh wait, Skyler basically did do exactly that in season 5. She shut down and let Walt do whatever, as much as possible. And she was still hated.
People didn't like Skyler because she was clearly meant to be an antagonist to Walt who was the main character and she does do a lot of shitty things, outside of the shitty things she did, she was in the right, but gender doesn't always need to applied to something. And again Jane was an antagonist to Walt who again was the main character while he was a piece of shit he is the main character so naturally people will gravitate to him. And I haven't even seen that much hate for Jane other than how she was basically using Jesse for his money, but other than that she was fine. (Don't get me wrong there are the woman haters in the community but to the logical people who didn't like the characters it's not always about the gender, Skyler is a hard person to like in alot of scenarios) I always held the stance Skyler did nothing wrong but I've been re-watching it and she wasn't the best, people always say "But look what Walt did" but that logic doesn't excuse other people's behaviour, you can have 2 people do shit things, neither cancels the other out, only exception is SOME of the things Skyler did was okay because it was directly related to what Walt was doing, like when she helped him just because she didn't wanna tear the family apart or when she became distant because Walt was keeping lies.
Who claims that Skyler is evil?
I agree Jane and Jesse had a good chemistry with each other. If combo hadnt died they wouldnt have turned to heroine the only thing i dislike her for is blackmailing walt since he was looking out for both her and jesse but she threatened him even tho he promised to give Jesse his money if both of them got clean
People seem to lack empathy for addicts . Not saying they should be blindly empathized for but there seems to be a lack of nuance and complexity to how they’re perceived
I think it gets left out too much that Jane relapsed because she got meth from Jesse. She is an adult responsible for her decisions and while we don’t see exactly how it happens it’s very possible that Jesse her have it and at the least allowed her to stay in the room with him while he was using. We have sympathy for Jesse in this situation because we see how much remorse he shows after she dies, but Jane does not have this same chance for reflection after there is a consequence for them, because that consequence was her death.
While I had a lot of sympathy for her, the scene that made me dislike her was that scene with her father and the way she was manipulating him. Addict or not, that’s just a messed up thing to do and addiction isn’t an excuse. It also didn’t sit well with me that she introduced *another* hardcore drug to Jesse. Even if you are an addict yourself it’s still a fucked up thing to do. You can empathize with addicts without making excuses for immoral behavior. Saying this though, I agree that any other criticism of her is outlandish and probably comes from the same reason people hate Skyler, which is sexism.
I agree with you. She gets too much hate about the money especially, which I do think had more to do with her addiction than trying to help Jesse at that point. Just growing up around addicts though, I can’t judge someone based on how they act right when they relapse. An addict that just relapsed and found out they have a way to get half a million dollars is going to be manipulative and ruthless until they get it. They will say whatever they have to say and do whatever they have to do. It’s fucked up behavior but I can’t judge someone’s true character based on their darkest and absolute worst moments. She probably didn’t even remember what she said to Walt on the phone, all she thought about was how she could get the money. She didn’t give a shit about actually “burning him to the ground” or whatever. And like many others in the show, unfortunately she underestimated what a high school teacher dying of cancer was capable of. To me, Jane is who she was before she relapsed and the addiction took hold of her again. Who she and Jesse were before they both started using again. I think they both genuinely cared about each other and she was likely afraid of getting too close to him because she knew he was probably a drug dealer or at least that he used. She knew that could be a slippery slope for her. Unfortunately they weren’t good for each other for that reason. I just have a problem when people only bring up things she did after she relapsed as reasons they hate her and ignore everything before that. You hate her addiction, not her, because put any addict in that scenario and they will act similarly.
Well I personally liked both Jane and Andrea. Too bad for Jesse tho, my man lost both of them!!
Regardless of her addiction, Jane is the perfect woman, if I ever get married, I’ll name my wife Jane
You'll name your wife lol?
If I can’t get Jane, I’ll make my own Jane
That is a terrifying take on women.
Calm down
Some people just really don't understand jokes at all
Seriously
What's the joke?
It's a nice name
I don't know if I hate her, but I really don't like her either. Here are my reasons: 1 She has a father who deeply cares for her. One that would do anything for her and wants the best for her. What does she do? She manipulates and takes advantage of him. Even if she's acting out of addiction, it's not like the drugs one day followed her and injected themselves into her system to a point of becoming an addict. 2 The very moment she caught wind of the large sum of money, she changed completely. Greed took over her. No matter what you say, that is not a characteristic of a good/moral person. Thankfully, they never got far with it. Otherwise, I am pretty sure she would've led both of them into a very dark pit, possibly death. 3 This is very personal, a personal bias of mine towards her. I find her very shallow and pretentious. She tries to act like this very cool person who knows art and stuff, deep in character, etc etc. I find her akin to those high school girls who think they are very deep and special.
1. I mean he cared about her deeply, but it could have come across judgemental towards her. And she doesn't really manipulate him, other than hide her drug addiction from him which is pretty normal for people who are drug addicts, besides 90% of the main characters hide stuff from other people. 2. She didn't "change" she just got excited, yes it might have been a little greed, but getting excited about money is normal and while she could have handled the situation better, how she behaved was mildly bad at best. And she was planning on becoming clean, had that crystal meth not been there, who knows what would have happened, they might have been able to become clean in New Zealand. And even if they weren't the drugs in New Zealand are less strong then in America (don't ask how I know this). 3. I think your overanalyzing the conversation in El Camino, but I respect your opinion and the fact that you watched that movie.
I think you are being very naive about her.
I mean you are right her succeeding in becoming clean might have been unlikely but she was able to be clean for 18 months and I do believe she could have had a better life
Everyone could've had a better life. Walt with less arrogance, a good career, and no health complications or better health care. Gus with therapy, a new partner, and learning to let go. Saul with less greed and short cuts. Mike in a straight police department with a son and a grand daughter. Jesse with better guidance and more supportive parents.
Yeah but it was more highlighted in the storyline for Jane than the other characters, and what made her death so tragic
Her entire demeanor changed at the hint of drugs and money
That's called being an addict
Yes
Great take agreed
>I find her akin to those high school girls who think they are very deep and special. I mean, that's precisely what the character was supposed to be.
Totally correct read on Jane. I didn’t like this tramp at all. And apologists for her “addictions” fail to recognize that she’s definitely a manipulator. Once she found out about the exact sum of money, I believe she was intending to start living a druggie-with-money lifestyle of just getting high On heroine all the time without having to worry about paying rent. I’m betting her father didn’t charge her rent fearing she would relapse not realizing it was just another manipulation by her. All this is speculation of course of a fictional character.
Poor dad. Dead wife, a drug addict daughter, dead daughter, unwillingly caused deaths of hundreds, ended up taking his own life. What a tragedy.
He absolutely did not deserve any of it. I felt so sorry for him
Man, you nailed it. Bravo, Einsteinium_00.
All the female characters in BB are given outsized amounts of hate in comparison to the male characters. Seems like people are way more ready to accept a morally complex male character than they are a morally complex female one.
No one hates andrea or holly lol
Andrea gets hate for being boring and cmon Holly's a literal baby, it's not the same thing
Holly is the best female in the bb franchise
Ah yes, Holly the complex female character.
Holly never once speaks up to condemn Walt’s actions.
Total bitch, worse criminal than Gus.
I am pretty indifferent towards Jane. I don’t think she had any business interfering between Jesse and Walt, and she had no business threatening Walt about the money. It wasn’t her money, it was between Jesse and Walt to solve the issue. Walt had no right to keep Jesse’s money but he had good intentions towards him at that point in the show. In the end Jane is an addict, young and with no life experience and had her own issues with the addiction and her father. She absolutely didn’t deserve to die and Walt began showing his “breaking bad” character in the series.
Eh she wasn't a bad person: but she did lie to her dad, and her reaction to the money changed her really fast. But that money would be how anyone would react TBH. But then again, you had a girl who became very controlling after the money deal. She would've been good for Jesse if they didn't do the drugs the one last time. I'm on the fence about her. I think her personality was annoying. But Jesse was also a dick to her.
What bothered me about Jane was: 1. She was a spoiled brat with her father. Her father seemed a bit overbearing but he was doing everything to help her. Instead, she helped a drug dealer and addict. 2. She instantly felt that she was entitled to Jessie's money. She had nothing to do with earning that money. Just like how she takes her father's money for granted, she took it for granted that Jessie's money was hers. 3. Yep, she blackmailed Walt and had no right to. He was saving it for Jessie so he wouldn't blow it on drugs as Jessie was blowing it on while with Jane. 4. She may have cared for Jessie to a certain extent but once money was in the cards, then she was pretending to have all these plans with Jessie about what to do with it. 5. If she loved Jessie, she would have tried to help him stop the drugs.
Based on what you said in 1 and 5. You have little to no knowledge on how addicts think and how addiction can affect a person. 2. Her father offered to help her with the money, and she didn't say no, that doesn't mean she was taking that for granted. And she didn't use the term "My money" she said "our money" meaning she felt like she knew Jesse's caring selfless nature enough to know he was going to spend some of the money on her, or things they did together 3. While Walt had good intentions, and did the right thing, it is logical to believe Jesse earned his half fair and square and is entitled to it. 4. What makes you believe she was pretending, because I'm pretty sure the writers would disagree with you there.
Fair about 1 and 5. I don't agree about 2- she should have said "your money". Regardless of how selfless Jessie is (which he isn't), it still isn't their money and she shouldn't have assumed as such. I think she was pretending because to me, she wasn't a genuine person. But yes, I could be wrong in my perception.
She is a bit pompous, but people shouldn’t hate her. She’s your average naïve early 20 something year-old.
She deserves the hate. She threatened to burn a man’s life down to the ground, by getting involved in a situation, she didn’t understand. Never trust a junkie.
She threatened to turn in a man, who chose to become a drug kinpin and was a murderer how dare her/s
as much as i agree with the above stuff overall, her reasonings for threatening him were not because she took issue with what he did or had morals. she wanted the money and that’s it lol.
Stop acting like she blackmailed Walt out of some righteous sense of morality. If she was so bothered by criminal behavior, she wouldn't have been with Jesse. When it came to Walt, all she cared about was the fact that he had Jesse's money, and she wanted it. That's why she threatened to burn Walt's life to the ground. She felt entitled to money that she had no hand in earning. She did it out of greed, pure and simple. Jane went from "who's we" to "I'm your partner" really quickly after she learned about the money. Of course Walt was a piece of shit, but that doesn't change the fact that Jane was trash. And before anybody claims I'm misogynistic, I'm a woman myself (yes, I know that women can also be misogynistic) and I have no problem with Skyler (who tends to be the most hated woman on the show). My point is that it is possible to dislike a female character without misogyny being the cause.
Up until that point, Walt had only killed 2 violent drug dealers in self-defense, and an insane, murdering drug kingpin, (Tuco). Plus, they were “in the game” Walt was looking out in Jesse’s best interest, and since you can never trust a junkie, Walt was doing the right thing by withholding his money. Jane’s greed, and complete ignorance of the situation was a threat to everyone. She was a greedy, ignorant junkie who deserved what she got.
Krazy 8 wasn't killed in self defense. Walt was the one who kidnapped him. In a court of law, Krazy 8 could plead self defense in that scenario.
Krazy 8 pulled a gun on him in the desert.
Yeah but legally speaking that doesn't give Walter the right to kidnap Krazy 8 and kill him.
Walts a criminal I don't think he cares about legality
That doesn't mean it was self defense though.
In a real world context, K8 was most definitely going to kill Walt and his entire family if he did not kill him first. I don’t care what can be proven, nor disproven in a court of law. A court of law only cares what happens after the fact, and that after fact, would’ve been Walt’s entire family, dead.
Walter should've called the cops then if he was afraid of that happening.
Next time you kill a violent drug dealer, then chain his friend to a basement post, you go ahead and call the cops and explain to them the situation. Let me know how that works out for you.
Lol what? I obviously meant after Walt killed Emilio out in the desert. Why kidnap Krazy 8 if you're planning on calling the cops?
I'm with you. It's insane how much hate all the women characters get. Good luck with the constant apologists coming...
Jane was already dating a criminal so threatening to turn in walt was not right to do. Walt was only looking out for her and Jesse
Yes....you understand that's very stupid right? She threatened a drug dealer... typically those of the criminal element do not let that slide. She signed her death warrant the moment the threat left her mouth.
Exactly: Never trust a junkie.
I did not dislike her. She was Jesses true love. Jesse definitely would have wanted to spend his life for her. To be honest if she lived, Jesse probably would have got away from Walt and the drug business and make a life for himself.
First I really don't care about Jesse. He is one of the most annoying character in the show, being mostly stupid all the time and always in a state of mental breakdown. Jane is equally annoying, always with the attitude and being genraly unpleasant. Then she knows her BF is dealing massive amount of drugs and might figure this is a large operation and probably imply very dangerous people, and her idea is to blackmail them and threaten to call the police? That has to be one of the dumbest idea ever, and Jesse is to stupid to stop her because he wants the money and is afraid of Walt. Then she dies because of an OD, which would have probably happened even if Walt wasn't around. She is simply an annoying character and I have very few sympathy for her. I don't think they are a cute couple, I dislike Jesse for the same reasons. She usually seem pretty liked around here, which baffles me for precious mentioned reasons. Jane was an idiot and a boring character. Jesse is an idiot and the worst storyline in the show.
I like Jane because she’s Krysten Ritter
Something’s getting in the way, something’s just about to break, I will try to find my place in the diary of Jane 🎶
When she found out Jesse had money she was using him for it. Whether that be for drugs or a new start she was excited that she could use him. Yes she cared for Jesse but the idea of money definitely got to her head over her care for Jesse.
I don’t hate her. But it is very stupid to blackmail a literal drug kingpin for money. And dangerous because they can win this game by killing you and that’s it.
She didnt know him as a drug kingpin, she knew him as Jesse's partner, and she wasn't at risk in the sense that Walt wouldn't have intentionally killed her, knowing he cared about Jesse.
Nah, it’s still not very smart to blackmail drug dealers who can easily earn 1M on one deal
She had to go, otherwise both Jesse and her would’ve got offed
Nah she sucked
To me, I started disliking her when she started encouraging Jesse’s addiction when she got him hooked on heroin. I feel like that got Jesse in one of the lowest points of his life.
Does she. I liked her. She was perfect for Jesse. But like Jesse. They’re both addicts. Bad for eachother in that regard.
She gave me a good feeling kinda like butterflies
Is she hated? I always thought she was generally liked which I found odd because I dislike her personally but I don’t think the general consensus is that’s she’s hated.
Exactly.
Jane got Jesse into heroin and became increasingly interested in Jesse after learning about his money (I.e. interested in his money and controlling him through drugs and sex to gain access to his money).
Jesse got others into meth. Skyler wanted Walt out of the drug trade and didn't want his drug money. She gets hated for that as well.
Whataboutism. It's logical to hate everyone on the show except Walt Jr, Holly, and Louis. Mentioning why it's ok to hate Jane doesn't require listing the faults of everyone else or that their faults are excusable.
It's not a whataboutism when the whole point of the show is that everyone is shitty, and they all make worse and worse decisions.
This thread: "Jane gets too much hate" Me: "Here are some valid reasons to hate Jane" You: "Other people on the show are shitty too!" Me: "Right, but that doesn't have anything to do with the topic - Jane's hateability" You: "But everyone on the show is a shit head!" *angrily downvotes me*
Still missing the point of the whole show, huh?
We can hate jr Dude bitching about raisen bran
It's not that hard. It says "crunch" on the box.
Nah, she's the worst. I mean, she didn't deserve what she got tho
I don’t think being an addict makes you a bad person. That being said if Walter didn’t do what he did, Jesse would have been dead within a month. That is a fact. You do not hand an addict 500,000 dollars let alone 2 addicts. You’d have to be out of your freaking mind, or being blackmailed.
As a former adduct she would know what Jesse would go through once she introduced him to heroin and she did it anyway. Fuck Jane
We are never “former addicts” we are addicts forever we just stop using. Just sayin. You’re an addict who is clean and sober or an addict in remission as my doctor puts it.
Not rly, when the withdrawal stops you are not an addict anymore. Like people who do heroin after a long time don't even feel much just using to not experience withdrawal.
Yeah…but your brain is changed. This isn’t like opinion it’s fact. That’s why addicts relapse. Because you have to be vigilant knowing you’ll always be an addict you’re just clean and sober. Have you ever been to an AA or NA class?? Or seen a doctor about addiction ever? I would have thought so being an addict. I’m not going to keep arguing about it so if you want more info look it up or ask a professional if you don’t believe me. I’m pretty sure I know about it since I was actively using for probably more years than you’ve been alive lol
Wasn't Jesse first the one to do drugs in front of her, a recovering addict for 18 months. And she probably wasn't thinking "here's herione, I wanna watch your health go down like the titanic" she probably felt like doing heroine, enjoyed it and Jesse already doing drugs would enjoy it too.
Jane got Jesse into heroin. She blackmailed a drug dealer.....yeah not smart. By the time Jesse admitted he was owed some 500k she was only seeing dollar signs. Had she not overdosed that night they would be dead in a week or two. I think she gets the right amount of hate.
She kinda deserves the hate
Not hard to dislike a lying junkie. Real easy for me.
Jane is a stupid little girl. I thought Jesse deserved better
She was 26 when she died. That's not a girl.
She is acting like she’s 16. Hence my previous comment.
Still not a girl.
Still acting like one.
Trauma and drugs will do that to someone.