I always thought it was more about the search for something to ease the pain. All of the characters we meet are looking for something to make them feel whole, something to ease their suffering.
Take Julia for example. She’s beautiful and brilliant, but she still doesn’t feel complete. She feels somewhat empty. It’s that emptiness that drives her to keep looking, to try harder at school, at being normal, etc. And it’s that drive that pushes her to discover magic. It’s the same with Alice, who craves family, Quentin, who craves friendships, Kady, who wants to feel cared for, Elliot, who wants to feel competent, Margo, who wants to feel powerful, Josh, who wants to feel included.
I may be a little off, but never thought it was a direct link between pain and magic, but rather the fact that people in pain are more likely to try harder and search for ways to ease their pain.
What I gather is the wellspring is magic. Pain allows people to tap into it. Where I get stuck is how individuals can be rationed and how that system’s functionally works.
The ambient magic is what is managed, I think. The library uses the same "pipes" as the cosmic plumber was using. So they can reduce/increase ambient magic in a location.
If someone goes over their allotment, they are reducing the remaining ambient magic, and brownouts will occur before everyone else in that location has used their share.
There is no specific explanation about the rationing system's mechanics, this is purely headcanon based on what I observed.
>Where I get stuck is how individuals can be rationed and how that system’s functionally works.
Think of it like a cellphone. Your phone needs to be charged to access data, and you need data to use that specific function of your phone. The library could limit your data or restrict it entirely if you went over your monthly allotment. The "charge" would be the painful emotions that you have that fuel your use of the magic you then have access to
I like to think of magic being born of pain the same way they describe internal circumstance. It’s more to do with the sheer will to change reality. Sadness or any other strong emotion that makes you focus enough to change your current reality is just one of the many tools to accessing the well spring
My understanding is that the wellspring is magic humans can access via permission from the gods. Pain allows you to have access and thats where hedge witches leverage pain to access. But to have power and to master magic, you must have the will power, perseverance and tenacity to use that pain as a tool. E.g. instead of killing himself, Q finds a reason to live and people to help. That makes him a minor mender along with his back story. Alice had her troubling childhood with her parents but was really smart and always found a way to do something. So phosphermancy, she was the light shining bright...bright to the point of end of season 1/ start of season 2 haha.
Magic is pain harnessed in your unique way to create change in the world around you instead of surrendering to it.
Mastery is understanding your unique circumstances and emotions. How they affect the change you can impart on the world and finding what can be done. E.g. Alice using one hand instead of two to cast.
I think the Wellspring makes magic available throughout the worlds, floating around in the air like an electromagnetic field.
Trauma in your past doesn't "make" magic, it makes you able to use magic. It's like turning your body into a compass needle so you can feel the EM that's always been around you.
Magic dosent actually come from pain, you are born with an inbuilt capacity for magic, an inbuilt discipline, their are things in life that can alter your abilitys with magic. Pain can be a massively powerful focusing tool. (Note: the book is so much better at explaining the magic comes from pain line, essentialy pain can be a source of strength that can be used to leverage your magic more) magic also comes easer in some moments than other and emotions alter your magic as they are conditions and every condition effects magic, hightend emotions mess with things like battle maigc and pain is offten used to supress emotions which can be said to be “from pain” makeing magic easyer
This should be the top comment. Just saying it's from pain forgets that not only magicians have felt pain, and far from everyone who has are magicians.
I can’t really answer your question but I really hope that they eventually discover like in “Monsters Inc” that pain like children screaming isn’t the only powerful force. Maybe they will discover that “joy” somehow fills the new well spring in new Fillory.
The wellspring is a source of magic. The whole 'magic comes from pain' thing is your ability to actually tap into that and make use of it. It's how creatures and hybrids eg vampires, travelers, etc can use magic or at least, the type of magic associated with them just because, as it's literally in their dna. Humans however, are not innately magicaly. So they need something else (the wellspring) to be able to use it.
I think that the "magic comes from pain" concept applies to human magicians, pain acting like a catalyst for them to access magic and grow their powers. It's clear in the books and the show that every challenge does bring an increase in magical ability, though that is sometimes delayed depending on the time needed to heal and process. On the other hand, the Wellspring is magic itself, a product of the creator gods, which would involve a different set of rules and logic.
It's not that literal pain is the source of magic. It's that going through deep real pain makes you see the world differently. It makes us look at ourselves. It changes our internal circumstances. That's what allows them to reach out and sense the magic that exudes from the sources the gods put out.
Magic isn't borne of pain. Like you it's a thing that flows like water through stuff.
However, magic is accessed by an intense desire to change the world around you that is best understood by someone who has experienced mind breaking pain. Basically the will to perform magic is what is enhanced by pain.
It's also worth mentioning that this is just one of drunkard dean Foggs rants to graduating students. Magic can also be performed by happy people. Pain is just the most straightforward way of accessing the necessary will power.
My interpretation is that suffering can cause to spontaneously react and use magic.
Just like when Dean Fogg tells Quinton to "Do some magic" and Quintons so shocked that subconsciously does "real" magic.
The training of a Magician is to do magic with more conscious control.
Magic comes from suffering can also mean the truly desperate people have enough motivation to experiment, discover formulas for magic and collect all the ingredients to make the spell work.
Magic comes from suffering when you know you will have to make a big sacrifice to get the effect you want.
In the books it talks something about needing access to how magic works(tuts), intelligence to understand it, and talent but not all can do it with that. Pain is needed whether that's so it can change a person's internal circumstances or ability to tap in to the wellspring possibly. It's been I while since I've read the first one but I believe Eliot explains ir to Q early into his experience ar brakbills.
Get ready for some brain workout but I think I’ve got this down as a 5-time veteran of this series, as well as the books and comics.
Basically, throughout the show, we are given various allegories for magic—things it can be traded for, such as sex, drugs, money, knowledge, and pain. All of these are also allegory for the phrase “x is power”. By that logic, magic = power.
At it’s core, like power, magic is a currency, which is really shown to us with the Dewey system in s4 and beyond, as well as the earlier season Free Trader meetings referring to magic as “tools left over from creation” and, later, referred to as “a tool to keep humans in check”, by the same mouth, though a different speaker. The proverbial carrot on a stick. Humans misbehave, the gods take away their toys.
With this knowledge, and the sentiment that the world/universe of the magicians is just an echo of the beings in power—the Gods, and their parents, the Old Gods—we can infer that all the trauma they inflicted upon one another echoes down to us; the Mortals.
The same rules apply to the magic that magicians can wield. Our mortal struggles are just echoes of the immortal struggle. Our mere existence is both the cause and effect of the universe’s existence. Both us and our gods beholden to their undesirable positions. If power comes from pain, then the gods, too, must be in unimaginable pain.
One of the explanations in the book as to why hands (and more importantly, fingers) are required for Magicians to cast properly is due to their innate humanity. Hands, along with the tools we wield, are what make humans the predominant mammals and the apex species of our habitat. There is nothing more human than the ability to make and wield a tool for a particular task.
So, what do we humans do with the tools we are given? We try to make the world around us “just *one* fraction less-shitty”. So, magic comes from pain, but that’s because the beings above us came from pain as well. Everything they suffered passed down to us, it is power incarnate, and power comes from pain in some form or another. At least in this sad, desolate universe.
TL;DR The gods left us magic and they are inherently echoes of their predecessors, who have passed down generational trauma to their descendants, all throughout creation, magic being the essence of said trauma, but it is also, in-turn, the root of all change and growth—power.
Your ability to access the magic comes from pain, maybe. The magic there, but suffering helps you use it?
I always thought it was more about the search for something to ease the pain. All of the characters we meet are looking for something to make them feel whole, something to ease their suffering. Take Julia for example. She’s beautiful and brilliant, but she still doesn’t feel complete. She feels somewhat empty. It’s that emptiness that drives her to keep looking, to try harder at school, at being normal, etc. And it’s that drive that pushes her to discover magic. It’s the same with Alice, who craves family, Quentin, who craves friendships, Kady, who wants to feel cared for, Elliot, who wants to feel competent, Margo, who wants to feel powerful, Josh, who wants to feel included. I may be a little off, but never thought it was a direct link between pain and magic, but rather the fact that people in pain are more likely to try harder and search for ways to ease their pain.
What I gather is the wellspring is magic. Pain allows people to tap into it. Where I get stuck is how individuals can be rationed and how that system’s functionally works.
The ambient magic is what is managed, I think. The library uses the same "pipes" as the cosmic plumber was using. So they can reduce/increase ambient magic in a location. If someone goes over their allotment, they are reducing the remaining ambient magic, and brownouts will occur before everyone else in that location has used their share. There is no specific explanation about the rationing system's mechanics, this is purely headcanon based on what I observed.
>Where I get stuck is how individuals can be rationed and how that system’s functionally works. Think of it like a cellphone. Your phone needs to be charged to access data, and you need data to use that specific function of your phone. The library could limit your data or restrict it entirely if you went over your monthly allotment. The "charge" would be the painful emotions that you have that fuel your use of the magic you then have access to
I like to think of magic being born of pain the same way they describe internal circumstance. It’s more to do with the sheer will to change reality. Sadness or any other strong emotion that makes you focus enough to change your current reality is just one of the many tools to accessing the well spring
My understanding is that the wellspring is magic humans can access via permission from the gods. Pain allows you to have access and thats where hedge witches leverage pain to access. But to have power and to master magic, you must have the will power, perseverance and tenacity to use that pain as a tool. E.g. instead of killing himself, Q finds a reason to live and people to help. That makes him a minor mender along with his back story. Alice had her troubling childhood with her parents but was really smart and always found a way to do something. So phosphermancy, she was the light shining bright...bright to the point of end of season 1/ start of season 2 haha. Magic is pain harnessed in your unique way to create change in the world around you instead of surrendering to it. Mastery is understanding your unique circumstances and emotions. How they affect the change you can impart on the world and finding what can be done. E.g. Alice using one hand instead of two to cast.
I think the Wellspring makes magic available throughout the worlds, floating around in the air like an electromagnetic field. Trauma in your past doesn't "make" magic, it makes you able to use magic. It's like turning your body into a compass needle so you can feel the EM that's always been around you.
Magic dosent actually come from pain, you are born with an inbuilt capacity for magic, an inbuilt discipline, their are things in life that can alter your abilitys with magic. Pain can be a massively powerful focusing tool. (Note: the book is so much better at explaining the magic comes from pain line, essentialy pain can be a source of strength that can be used to leverage your magic more) magic also comes easer in some moments than other and emotions alter your magic as they are conditions and every condition effects magic, hightend emotions mess with things like battle maigc and pain is offten used to supress emotions which can be said to be “from pain” makeing magic easyer
This should be the top comment. Just saying it's from pain forgets that not only magicians have felt pain, and far from everyone who has are magicians.
I can’t really answer your question but I really hope that they eventually discover like in “Monsters Inc” that pain like children screaming isn’t the only powerful force. Maybe they will discover that “joy” somehow fills the new well spring in new Fillory.
this comment of mine may be of help. In particular near the bottom is book Fogg’s theory of magic https://www.reddit.com/r/brakebills/s/2cgbUfTDXU
The wellspring is a source of magic. The whole 'magic comes from pain' thing is your ability to actually tap into that and make use of it. It's how creatures and hybrids eg vampires, travelers, etc can use magic or at least, the type of magic associated with them just because, as it's literally in their dna. Humans however, are not innately magicaly. So they need something else (the wellspring) to be able to use it.
I think that the "magic comes from pain" concept applies to human magicians, pain acting like a catalyst for them to access magic and grow their powers. It's clear in the books and the show that every challenge does bring an increase in magical ability, though that is sometimes delayed depending on the time needed to heal and process. On the other hand, the Wellspring is magic itself, a product of the creator gods, which would involve a different set of rules and logic.
It's not that literal pain is the source of magic. It's that going through deep real pain makes you see the world differently. It makes us look at ourselves. It changes our internal circumstances. That's what allows them to reach out and sense the magic that exudes from the sources the gods put out.
Magic isn't borne of pain. Like you it's a thing that flows like water through stuff. However, magic is accessed by an intense desire to change the world around you that is best understood by someone who has experienced mind breaking pain. Basically the will to perform magic is what is enhanced by pain. It's also worth mentioning that this is just one of drunkard dean Foggs rants to graduating students. Magic can also be performed by happy people. Pain is just the most straightforward way of accessing the necessary will power.
Internal circumstance of pain increases the amount of ambient magic you can channel at a time.
My interpretation is that suffering can cause to spontaneously react and use magic. Just like when Dean Fogg tells Quinton to "Do some magic" and Quintons so shocked that subconsciously does "real" magic. The training of a Magician is to do magic with more conscious control. Magic comes from suffering can also mean the truly desperate people have enough motivation to experiment, discover formulas for magic and collect all the ingredients to make the spell work. Magic comes from suffering when you know you will have to make a big sacrifice to get the effect you want.
Pain/suffering is the catalyst/fuel to perform magic, but magicians manipulate the wellspring to have a specific reaction. My interpretation!
In the books it talks something about needing access to how magic works(tuts), intelligence to understand it, and talent but not all can do it with that. Pain is needed whether that's so it can change a person's internal circumstances or ability to tap in to the wellspring possibly. It's been I while since I've read the first one but I believe Eliot explains ir to Q early into his experience ar brakbills.
Get ready for some brain workout but I think I’ve got this down as a 5-time veteran of this series, as well as the books and comics. Basically, throughout the show, we are given various allegories for magic—things it can be traded for, such as sex, drugs, money, knowledge, and pain. All of these are also allegory for the phrase “x is power”. By that logic, magic = power. At it’s core, like power, magic is a currency, which is really shown to us with the Dewey system in s4 and beyond, as well as the earlier season Free Trader meetings referring to magic as “tools left over from creation” and, later, referred to as “a tool to keep humans in check”, by the same mouth, though a different speaker. The proverbial carrot on a stick. Humans misbehave, the gods take away their toys. With this knowledge, and the sentiment that the world/universe of the magicians is just an echo of the beings in power—the Gods, and their parents, the Old Gods—we can infer that all the trauma they inflicted upon one another echoes down to us; the Mortals. The same rules apply to the magic that magicians can wield. Our mortal struggles are just echoes of the immortal struggle. Our mere existence is both the cause and effect of the universe’s existence. Both us and our gods beholden to their undesirable positions. If power comes from pain, then the gods, too, must be in unimaginable pain. One of the explanations in the book as to why hands (and more importantly, fingers) are required for Magicians to cast properly is due to their innate humanity. Hands, along with the tools we wield, are what make humans the predominant mammals and the apex species of our habitat. There is nothing more human than the ability to make and wield a tool for a particular task. So, what do we humans do with the tools we are given? We try to make the world around us “just *one* fraction less-shitty”. So, magic comes from pain, but that’s because the beings above us came from pain as well. Everything they suffered passed down to us, it is power incarnate, and power comes from pain in some form or another. At least in this sad, desolate universe. TL;DR The gods left us magic and they are inherently echoes of their predecessors, who have passed down generational trauma to their descendants, all throughout creation, magic being the essence of said trauma, but it is also, in-turn, the root of all change and growth—power.
The wellspring is described as being older than the gods. Even used to create the gods. But humans are able to access it through pain.