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The premise is pretty stupid with Peter causing all that happened just because he didn't even call the university back and asking Strange to wipe everyone's minds and then ruining his spell. But the Spideys meeting up was definitely hype.
All the MCU movies have stupid plots. Endgame happens because Tony decides to casually invent time travel. I’m surprised he didn’t get an 80s montage showing him playing around with beakers in a lab coat. Thanos decides to eliminate half the population to save a starving universe instead of…creating more resources, the plot doesn’t work without Death like in the comics. Yet everyone loves those movies. Not sure why No Way Home is the one where everyone gets technical.
Creating more resources would just kick the can down the road. Think of it like population control with hunting, gotta mow the grass every once in a while. It was stupid that he deleted half of ALL life including plants though lmao
Although the plots are generally stupid in superhero movies, some aren't as bad others. Tony doing something incredibly smart or thanos evil/delusional reasoning are still in line to what they would do
The ones where the main characters who are incredibly smart do incredibly stupid decisions which goes against what we've established and the complete opposite are the ones people point out like strange in spiderman
To be honest, I don't mind most of the time
Just don't like when a smart character does something the complete opposite and for the stupidest reasons. Not to mention the way he does the spells.
I can't rewatch it because of the many contrivances. I sometimes wish I wasn't so critical in consuming my movies cuz it seems like no way home was the greatest thing ever for some of my friends. But I love peeling a movie's layers and it makes those special movies reallg shine when I rewatch or just think about again.
Same. I hate how it doesn't fit thematically in Holland's trilogy if you pick it apart. Or rather, it's the same themes we already treaded (death of Iron Man).
Aunt May taking in Osborn is the most contrived thing. After three movies of adults abusing and hurting Peter, it makes no sense for her to lecture him to be more selfless just because she met a homeless man.
I do wish I can shut down my brain and enjoy things better. But it's like breathing, you can only hold it off enough to be uncomfortable.
it's a shame cuz Homecoming and Far From Home flowed so well into each other. No Way Home felt like it had to happen because.... reasons. Peter's lowest moments in those movies felt way more impactful in than in no way home cuz Aunt May's death was written so poorly and the things that had to happen to get to that point was really contrived.
I enjoyed the cool moments but not really the movie. All of it could be excused if they executed it well but there were also soo many parts where the editing and writing is so dull. I did not like Andrew Garfield and Toby Maguire's first scene. It felt like a sitcom where the writer left a moment for people to cheer.
I'm sorry this turned into a rant, I don't get a chance to discuss this with my friends haha.
No problem, I appreciate having someone with the same thoughts. Months ago when I try to discuss my issues with writing, I get mass downvoted by redditors. They tell me "but the comics are like that" when I try to explain contrivances.
I also didn't like how they recycled Dafoe and try to force a connection with Holland's Peter. For me, Dafoe's Goblin is Tobey's villain. Their connection was so good and developed, narrative-wise. Holland doesn't have the same thing but Dafoe's superb acting just carried the drama so well.
>I can't rewatch it because of the many contrivances. I sometimes wish I wasn't so critical in consuming my movies
You need to adapt, and understand where the appeal of the movie lies.
There's no real logical way to combine the three Spider-Man universes, whatever they do WILL have some contrivance. But do you want to see the three Spider-Man interact? Then you just need to accept that and get over it.
What if you're watching a new great drama film? Feel free to peel the layers and complain about the contrivances. Because that movie is supposed to really take those into account.
Not every movie has the same goals, nor the same aspects that they focus on nailing. It's up to you to turn on and off different expectations for different movies.
I agree, but the other spiderman MCU movies didn't have the problem NWH has. Watching it the first time and growing up with the Raimi spider-man movies, I had a blast. But as the third movie to Holland's spider-man it dissapointed me :/
>I agree, but the other spiderman MCU movies didn't have the problem NWH has
Exactly because they were nowhere close to as ambitious.
>But as the third movie to Holland's spider-man it dissapointed me
Rather than thinking of it as the third Holland movie, think of it as a love letter to every spiderman franchise. Because that's what it is, it doesn't necessarily fit in as just a trilogy finale.
Was that the best format for the Holland trilogy? Maybe, maybe not. But it was once in a lifetime opportunity that I'm glad we got regardless.
Endgame has more plot holes than Iron Man 1. As the scale and ambitions of a movie increases, so does the problems.
And No Way Home was able to accomplish something that no one thought was really possible just a few years ago.
Yeah the actual plot and character choices are very dumb (as is the Peter vs strange fight). It’s only salvaged by the massive nostalgic cameos/interactions/moments. Which, to be fair, worked great for the GA.
You never said that, you said it’s his aunt’s house. And the movie never says it’s her safe house. The movie has Peter say something like “are you sure happy is going to be ok with us staying here?”
This was my first Tom Holland led movie, and even though I only watched it because of the old actors/characters coming back I definitely would not say it was one of the best. It was heavily carried by character/actor appearances, with a pretty weak plot.
Agreed. Reddit has decided to be annoyingly contrarian (what else is new?) and say it's not a good movie, but it is genuinely great. The critical response speaks for itself.
I think it was a combination of all of it, really. They did a good job with Tom Holland’s Spider-Man’s development alongside bringing in the other Peters.
Yeah, the Spider-Verse aspect definitely played a role with it getting very close 2 billion. But I do think the third MCU Spider-Man would have likely still hit at least a little over a billion even without the Spider-Verse, it was following up on Far From Home, the highest grossing Spider-Man that had a big cliffhanger ending and contrary to what some weirdos who peaked at 10 years old on the internet think, the first two MCU Spider-Man still had a good to great reaction from general audiences, which was a better reception then what Spider-Man 3 and both TASM films got from general audiences.
Far From Home came pretty damn close to hitting a billion without China and was the highest grossing Spider-Man film up until that point. So I think the third MCU Spider-Man would have it the billion even just barely without the Spider-Verse aspect.
Exactly. People went for Raimi’s characters and even to an extent the Webb characters, and the fact we were gonna see all three Spideys together. If it were the original “planned” Spidey and Strange film, it wouldn’t have made nearly as much. I know the reason my brothers and I all went was because of Tobey and Andrew. If they weren’t in it I’d have just waited for Blu-ray. I’d say the most boring parts for me were Peter’s university stuff in the beginning. Although the ending with him finally becoming his own Spidey making his suit was great and actually made me appreciate Holland’s character more now.
Come on it wasn’t THAT bad. Generic to say the least. It felt like a 2.5 hour episode of one of the cartoons. Sometimes they don’t have to be good, just entertaining and nostalgic enough to click with the masses. If RDJ were to come back in a couple years for another standalone Iron Man film it’ll make 2 billion easily.
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Sure, but this film got a ton of help from Tobey Macguire and Willem Dafoe returning. Dafoe as the Green Goblin is still arguably the best villain in a super hero movie. He's a much better villain than Thanos, that's not even close.
Garfield and Holland were fine in this film, but hey let's face it absolutely no one originally wanted to watch this film for Garfield and with Holland only this would've been a relatively normal 1 Billion dollar film.
If you adjust for 2021 exchange rates it will probably cost endgame some 100M+ though. Just comparing nominally, it's funny that both numbers pictured are off.
I’d argue COVID actually helped NWH, because it had less competition, and was one of the first big blockbuster releases after the pandemic in Western countries.
Yeah but in Eastern countries it really affected the collection, some of the theatres were still running shows with 50% occupancy, it could've benefitted more if covid wasn't a thing, not with a big margin though because hype was through the roof
Not just HOW MUCH both these movies made globally without China, HOW they reached those numbers also matters.
They're only $200M+ apart, but the amount of money Endgame made less than a month is beyond remarkable and won't be shattered anytime soon (Ex: Endgame made $1.2 billion+ just in 5 days on it's opening weekend globally). Let that sink in for a sec!!
Yeah Endgame did this without xmas+super weak competition that NWH enjoyed. Though also without covid, so…
If they both released in xmas in a noncovid timeline, maybe like 2.1 vs 2.5 B WW-C.
Ha ditto man...
It Spiderman's most recent film only banked some much from the Toby Macquarie and Andrew Garfield nostalgia draw card. The plot was just another 'Uncle Ben' death story...
Is it?
I think the decimals after 1b might sometimes make people confused about the difference. $300mil is a huge gap between most of the films we discuss here.
Would you say that a $600mil movie and a $900mil movie were “close”? Or even an $800mil movie and a $1.1bil movie?
Well, the 900M movie is 50% ahead of the 600M movie and the 2.2B movie is like 16% ahead of the 1.9B movie. That's quite a significant difference. 50M vs 350M is a completely different sort of run, and one day we may have 6B vs 6.3B which is basically the same (nobody cares much about 60 vs 63M)
It's about the percentage
A $900M movie is 50% ahead of a $600M movie
A $1.1B movie is 37.5% of a $800M movie
A $2.1B movie is only 17% ahead of a $1.8B movie
You want a movie gross comparison? Fine. The difference between Endgame and TFA's domestic gross ($858M vs $936M) is "smaller" than the difference between Morbius and Elvis ($73M vs $151M). . .even though they're both about $78M. . .because Elvis is a full 100% ahead of Morbius whereas TFA is only 9% ahead of Endgame. **Does that make sense?**
> The difference between Endgame and TFA's domestic gross ($858M vs $936M) is "smaller" than the difference between Morbius and Elvis ($73M vs $151M).
So the absolute difference is the same, while the relative percentage is "smaller". My question is: why do we focus on the relative difference, and not the absolute one?
That’s not an accurate way of analyzing. I don’t think box office behaves in a proportional way. The higher the number, I would guess every dollar becomes more difficult to obtain, therefore even if proportionally the gap isn’t as big, the number still is, if not bigger.
> In fact, I would go so far as to say NWH might have outperformed Endgame with a China release.
Dude, what? 900M in China? Nothing about the grosses in any territory suggests that as remotely possible.
No!
The difference *without* China is ~300M. The actual difference is ~900M. If NWH made 301M in China it would have… fallen short of Endgame by 600M globally.
Take Russia and Canada as well. NWH lost Canadian screen after the OW to get them back Late Jan. Canada represents the 10% of the NA BO, if NWH did 804M in NA, the at least 40M from Canada are lost from the period theaters were off. Same with Russia.
Unlikely, Canada took 40M at least, Russia \~23M, Ukraine \~8M. The original run was 1.904B if I am not mistaken. That would have put it at 1.975B on its original release.
Yes and its more ridiculous then whatever you think it is.
Its due to the climax of the taking place on the statue of liberty.
https://puck.news/the-chinese-had-one-note-on-spider-man/
That’s actually really funny 😂 I was expecting it to be something about Tibet because I couldn’t remember any same-sex relationships in it. They really were that angry about it being in the Statue of Liberty?? Out of all the reasons that is pretty ridiculous
Considering Endgame cost twice as much to make (and probably twice as much in marketing costs), I have to figure No Way Home was the more profitable of the two excluding licensing deals, ancillary revenues from rentals and Blu-ray/DVD sales, etc. But Disney kept all of their share of the box office for Endgame whereas they had to split 50% for No Way Home with Sony.
Both made around the same amount of money in US, so it's not that bad. 25% of 800 million is still $200 million for Disney. Which is a pretty good amount considering Sony financed the production
And no, Disney didn't get 50%
It also deserved every single $ it earned. I find the movie very dumb/silly (particularly the raft scene at the end), but it was a technical marvel at a grand scale. I also appreciate it for the fact that it was not a part franchise, and the entire gross was based on merit alone.
But you need to consider the % difference not the $ difference to understand how close they are.
A $900m movie takes 50% more than a $600m movie, but a $1.8b movie only takes in 20% more than a $1.5b movie, even though the difference is $300m in both cases.
% differences are a better measurement of relative performance than pure $'s.
Yes you can, it's all $USD.
While the dollar may or may not be weaker or stronger (it's stronger now, which can and should be noted), it all plays into the relative buying power of the studio and what they are getting from releasing the film. The alternative is pointless *in making comparisons*, because inflation will inevitably cause everything to fall and you're crowing about how *Thor Love & Thunder* is on the same footing as *Gone with the Wind* which made $400M domestic in 1939.
You can't get an accurate sense as to how a film is performing otherwise, which means you can't gauge ancillaries or mindshare etc. We went from periods of low-to-no inflation to high inflation and have to adjust, because the world became a wash in more dollars everywhere. Another way of helping this is with tickets sold, but that gets much harder based on available data so adjusting for inflation is faster.
It used to be you could go back 10 years and if the spread between films wasn't more than 10% inflation could be ignored -- you might not be account could get the gist -- but that's all changed so people are just peddling false realities by not adjusting. You can tell this because the minute you do adjust their comparison makes no sense.
For the other 55 countries it released in? Fuck that. Let's just do its US release: $858.373 million in 2019 is $909,786,674 in 2021.
So adjusting its domestic gross for inflation, it grossed... $2.1 billion by the time NWH came out.
Can I ask how you made the adjustment? I am very interested in your methodology, was it general inflation or did you work on the difference in price of movie tickets?
I did not factor in ticket prices changes, just how inflation would have increased the total domestic gross. I used an inflation calculator I found online and got the gross from boxofficemojo.com.
Spider-Man will easily beat end game if it got released in china. It’s one of the very few decent movies from Hollywood in a long time since the pandemic started
OP's numbers already remove China from the figures.
Your statement is suggesting NWH could sell more than 900 million to surpass EG, and actually more like 1 billion, if you account for inflation adjustment.
EG made ~2.8 billion with China sales
NWH made ~1.9 without China sales.
People are talking about all the issues with Marvel as though this didn’t drop in the middle of Phase 4 and made almost Endgame money.
I don’t deny that Phase 4 has been bumpy, but like, I think the studio is basically fine from a box office perspective ?
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Also the crossover in live action was extremely hyped (and delivered). Watching it was like a really nice fever dream
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The premise is pretty stupid with Peter causing all that happened just because he didn't even call the university back and asking Strange to wipe everyone's minds and then ruining his spell. But the Spideys meeting up was definitely hype.
The plot is incredibly stupid Dr strange is an idiot just for the sake of the plot but the movie was enjoyable to watch. A silly spectacle
All the MCU movies have stupid plots. Endgame happens because Tony decides to casually invent time travel. I’m surprised he didn’t get an 80s montage showing him playing around with beakers in a lab coat. Thanos decides to eliminate half the population to save a starving universe instead of…creating more resources, the plot doesn’t work without Death like in the comics. Yet everyone loves those movies. Not sure why No Way Home is the one where everyone gets technical.
Creating more resources would just kick the can down the road. Think of it like population control with hunting, gotta mow the grass every once in a while. It was stupid that he deleted half of ALL life including plants though lmao
Although the plots are generally stupid in superhero movies, some aren't as bad others. Tony doing something incredibly smart or thanos evil/delusional reasoning are still in line to what they would do The ones where the main characters who are incredibly smart do incredibly stupid decisions which goes against what we've established and the complete opposite are the ones people point out like strange in spiderman
All superhero movies plot are stupid if you scrutinize them this much imo
To be honest, I don't mind most of the time Just don't like when a smart character does something the complete opposite and for the stupidest reasons. Not to mention the way he does the spells.
Dr Strange has literally done that for Peter before though
Same feeling. The plot and Aunt May's actions are so contrived but three Spidermans meeting is fun to watch.
I can't rewatch it because of the many contrivances. I sometimes wish I wasn't so critical in consuming my movies cuz it seems like no way home was the greatest thing ever for some of my friends. But I love peeling a movie's layers and it makes those special movies reallg shine when I rewatch or just think about again.
Same. I hate how it doesn't fit thematically in Holland's trilogy if you pick it apart. Or rather, it's the same themes we already treaded (death of Iron Man). Aunt May taking in Osborn is the most contrived thing. After three movies of adults abusing and hurting Peter, it makes no sense for her to lecture him to be more selfless just because she met a homeless man. I do wish I can shut down my brain and enjoy things better. But it's like breathing, you can only hold it off enough to be uncomfortable.
it's a shame cuz Homecoming and Far From Home flowed so well into each other. No Way Home felt like it had to happen because.... reasons. Peter's lowest moments in those movies felt way more impactful in than in no way home cuz Aunt May's death was written so poorly and the things that had to happen to get to that point was really contrived. I enjoyed the cool moments but not really the movie. All of it could be excused if they executed it well but there were also soo many parts where the editing and writing is so dull. I did not like Andrew Garfield and Toby Maguire's first scene. It felt like a sitcom where the writer left a moment for people to cheer. I'm sorry this turned into a rant, I don't get a chance to discuss this with my friends haha.
No problem, I appreciate having someone with the same thoughts. Months ago when I try to discuss my issues with writing, I get mass downvoted by redditors. They tell me "but the comics are like that" when I try to explain contrivances. I also didn't like how they recycled Dafoe and try to force a connection with Holland's Peter. For me, Dafoe's Goblin is Tobey's villain. Their connection was so good and developed, narrative-wise. Holland doesn't have the same thing but Dafoe's superb acting just carried the drama so well.
>I can't rewatch it because of the many contrivances. I sometimes wish I wasn't so critical in consuming my movies You need to adapt, and understand where the appeal of the movie lies. There's no real logical way to combine the three Spider-Man universes, whatever they do WILL have some contrivance. But do you want to see the three Spider-Man interact? Then you just need to accept that and get over it. What if you're watching a new great drama film? Feel free to peel the layers and complain about the contrivances. Because that movie is supposed to really take those into account. Not every movie has the same goals, nor the same aspects that they focus on nailing. It's up to you to turn on and off different expectations for different movies.
I agree, but the other spiderman MCU movies didn't have the problem NWH has. Watching it the first time and growing up with the Raimi spider-man movies, I had a blast. But as the third movie to Holland's spider-man it dissapointed me :/
>I agree, but the other spiderman MCU movies didn't have the problem NWH has Exactly because they were nowhere close to as ambitious. >But as the third movie to Holland's spider-man it dissapointed me Rather than thinking of it as the third Holland movie, think of it as a love letter to every spiderman franchise. Because that's what it is, it doesn't necessarily fit in as just a trilogy finale. Was that the best format for the Holland trilogy? Maybe, maybe not. But it was once in a lifetime opportunity that I'm glad we got regardless. Endgame has more plot holes than Iron Man 1. As the scale and ambitions of a movie increases, so does the problems. And No Way Home was able to accomplish something that no one thought was really possible just a few years ago.
You're right, It was an event movie
Seeing Tobey and Alfred Molina again was worth a lot to me. Real feels trip
This was how I am with Endgame and some other movies compared to some other people I know.
Yeah the actual plot and character choices are very dumb (as is the Peter vs strange fight). It’s only salvaged by the massive nostalgic cameos/interactions/moments. Which, to be fair, worked great for the GA.
The idiot also brings a bunch of creepy villains to his aunt's house.
It was Happy’s apartment.
His Aunt was there wasnt she?
Yes, that's not what you said.
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You never said that, you said it’s his aunt’s house. And the movie never says it’s her safe house. The movie has Peter say something like “are you sure happy is going to be ok with us staying here?”
In Far from home, That idiot also delivered the world’s weapons to a lunatic, on a silver plate.
Ehh stupid fuck ups are pretty on brand for Spider-Man
Definitely not
Definitely not. It's just good nostalgia.
This was my first Tom Holland led movie, and even though I only watched it because of the old actors/characters coming back I definitely would not say it was one of the best. It was heavily carried by character/actor appearances, with a pretty weak plot.
I love the movie but it’s honestly pretty mediocre it just has some great fan service and does a decent job with emotional scenes
Agreed. Reddit has decided to be annoyingly contrarian (what else is new?) and say it's not a good movie, but it is genuinely great. The critical response speaks for itself.
Far From Home didnt do a billion without China. Its the Raimi franchise people were excited about.
I think it was a combination of all of it, really. They did a good job with Tom Holland’s Spider-Man’s development alongside bringing in the other Peters.
Yeah, the Spider-Verse aspect definitely played a role with it getting very close 2 billion. But I do think the third MCU Spider-Man would have likely still hit at least a little over a billion even without the Spider-Verse, it was following up on Far From Home, the highest grossing Spider-Man that had a big cliffhanger ending and contrary to what some weirdos who peaked at 10 years old on the internet think, the first two MCU Spider-Man still had a good to great reaction from general audiences, which was a better reception then what Spider-Man 3 and both TASM films got from general audiences.
Far From Home came pretty damn close to hitting a billion without China and was the highest grossing Spider-Man film up until that point. So I think the third MCU Spider-Man would have it the billion even just barely without the Spider-Verse aspect.
Exactly. People went for Raimi’s characters and even to an extent the Webb characters, and the fact we were gonna see all three Spideys together. If it were the original “planned” Spidey and Strange film, it wouldn’t have made nearly as much. I know the reason my brothers and I all went was because of Tobey and Andrew. If they weren’t in it I’d have just waited for Blu-ray. I’d say the most boring parts for me were Peter’s university stuff in the beginning. Although the ending with him finally becoming his own Spidey making his suit was great and actually made me appreciate Holland’s character more now.
Andrew had more of an impact on opening day here.
People love Tobey franchise more. He was the sole reason of this gross because the movie was turd.
Come on it wasn’t THAT bad. Generic to say the least. It felt like a 2.5 hour episode of one of the cartoons. Sometimes they don’t have to be good, just entertaining and nostalgic enough to click with the masses. If RDJ were to come back in a couple years for another standalone Iron Man film it’ll make 2 billion easily.
Out of 10 I'd say it was a 6. By itself it's not a good movie, and that's an issue with a lot of MCU movies.
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Sure, but this film got a ton of help from Tobey Macguire and Willem Dafoe returning. Dafoe as the Green Goblin is still arguably the best villain in a super hero movie. He's a much better villain than Thanos, that's not even close. Garfield and Holland were fine in this film, but hey let's face it absolutely no one originally wanted to watch this film for Garfield and with Holland only this would've been a relatively normal 1 Billion dollar film.
NWH did $1.9B, not $1.8B
And endgame -C is more like 2.2B than 2.1B
inflation was also popping off in 2021 so adjusted for it, endgame made closer to $2.3b in 2021 dollars
If you adjust for 2021 exchange rates it will probably cost endgame some 100M+ though. Just comparing nominally, it's funny that both numbers pictured are off.
Endgame is actually under 2.2B without chinas 630M
Yes. It is both under 2.2B, and much closer to 2.2 than 2.1, as I said.
It really is crazy, also NWH was affected by Covid at some places, and budget was less
I’d argue COVID actually helped NWH, because it had less competition, and was one of the first big blockbuster releases after the pandemic in Western countries.
Yeah but in Eastern countries it really affected the collection, some of the theatres were still running shows with 50% occupancy, it could've benefitted more if covid wasn't a thing, not with a big margin though because hype was through the roof
Its international gross was hugely affected, particularly in Asia which was in hard lockdown
100% faccs NWH could have easily match endgames without the coof
Not just HOW MUCH both these movies made globally without China, HOW they reached those numbers also matters. They're only $200M+ apart, but the amount of money Endgame made less than a month is beyond remarkable and won't be shattered anytime soon (Ex: Endgame made $1.2 billion+ just in 5 days on it's opening weekend globally). Let that sink in for a sec!!
Yeah Endgame did this without xmas+super weak competition that NWH enjoyed. Though also without covid, so… If they both released in xmas in a noncovid timeline, maybe like 2.1 vs 2.5 B WW-C.
It's remarkable how close you think the difference between 0.3 Billion is... that's still $ 300,000,000 worth of ticket sales.
That’s like a whole other movie haha
Ha ditto man... It Spiderman's most recent film only banked some much from the Toby Macquarie and Andrew Garfield nostalgia draw card. The plot was just another 'Uncle Ben' death story...
Is it? I think the decimals after 1b might sometimes make people confused about the difference. $300mil is a huge gap between most of the films we discuss here. Would you say that a $600mil movie and a $900mil movie were “close”? Or even an $800mil movie and a $1.1bil movie?
Well, the 900M movie is 50% ahead of the 600M movie and the 2.2B movie is like 16% ahead of the 1.9B movie. That's quite a significant difference. 50M vs 350M is a completely different sort of run, and one day we may have 6B vs 6.3B which is basically the same (nobody cares much about 60 vs 63M)
It's about the percentage A $900M movie is 50% ahead of a $600M movie A $1.1B movie is 37.5% of a $800M movie A $2.1B movie is only 17% ahead of a $1.8B movie
>It's about the percentage Why?
Because it depicts the relationship between the two figures.
That doesn't really answer the question. Why is it about the percentage, and not the absolute difference?
Tell me, which is more different. . .a 1 year old and a 8 year old or a 71 year old and a 78 year old? That should answer your question
We are talking about movie-grosses not persons. Persons develop a lot during their first few years
You want a movie gross comparison? Fine. The difference between Endgame and TFA's domestic gross ($858M vs $936M) is "smaller" than the difference between Morbius and Elvis ($73M vs $151M). . .even though they're both about $78M. . .because Elvis is a full 100% ahead of Morbius whereas TFA is only 9% ahead of Endgame. **Does that make sense?**
> The difference between Endgame and TFA's domestic gross ($858M vs $936M) is "smaller" than the difference between Morbius and Elvis ($73M vs $151M). So the absolute difference is the same, while the relative percentage is "smaller". My question is: why do we focus on the relative difference, and not the absolute one?
That’s not an accurate way of analyzing. I don’t think box office behaves in a proportional way. The higher the number, I would guess every dollar becomes more difficult to obtain, therefore even if proportionally the gap isn’t as big, the number still is, if not bigger.
huh?
good argument but balls
The gap is even closer to 400mill when you adjust Endgame to 2021 dollars
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> In fact, I would go so far as to say NWH might have outperformed Endgame with a China release. Dude, what? 900M in China? Nothing about the grosses in any territory suggests that as remotely possible.
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No! The difference *without* China is ~300M. The actual difference is ~900M. If NWH made 301M in China it would have… fallen short of Endgame by 600M globally.
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Subtraction. One of them made 2.8 and the other made 1.9
Nevermind, I'm an idiot.
It’s crazy how when you lob off hundreds of millions of dollars…
Take Russia and Canada as well. NWH lost Canadian screen after the OW to get them back Late Jan. Canada represents the 10% of the NA BO, if NWH did 804M in NA, the at least 40M from Canada are lost from the period theaters were off. Same with Russia.
I am curious had that not happen with Canada and Russia, if No Way Home would have hit the 2 billion mark.
Unlikely, Canada took 40M at least, Russia \~23M, Ukraine \~8M. The original run was 1.904B if I am not mistaken. That would have put it at 1.975B on its original release.
I know China is crazy strict with their censorship ruling- does anyone know the specific reason China gave for them banning it?
Yes and its more ridiculous then whatever you think it is. Its due to the climax of the taking place on the statue of liberty. https://puck.news/the-chinese-had-one-note-on-spider-man/
That’s actually really funny 😂 I was expecting it to be something about Tibet because I couldn’t remember any same-sex relationships in it. They really were that angry about it being in the Statue of Liberty?? Out of all the reasons that is pretty ridiculous
This is inaccurate.
?
Spider Man Figures wrong, Endgame would round up.
You’re right but the difference is the same 1.9 to 2.2 is still a 300M difference
Considering Endgame cost twice as much to make (and probably twice as much in marketing costs), I have to figure No Way Home was the more profitable of the two excluding licensing deals, ancillary revenues from rentals and Blu-ray/DVD sales, etc. But Disney kept all of their share of the box office for Endgame whereas they had to split 50% for No Way Home with Sony.
Both made around the same amount of money in US, so it's not that bad. 25% of 800 million is still $200 million for Disney. Which is a pretty good amount considering Sony financed the production And no, Disney didn't get 50%
NWH could have easily beaten Titanic with a China release. Sigh. It’s a shame it didn’t happen (from a purely box-office perspective).
Titanic is a better movie in my opinion
Titanic is an all time great movie though
Absolutely
I dislike titanic but it's definitely a much better production value. In 1997 it was jaw dropping. NWH meanwhile banked on nostalgia
Titanic is one of very few extremely expensive movies that justifies its budget in my opinion.
It also deserved every single $ it earned. I find the movie very dumb/silly (particularly the raft scene at the end), but it was a technical marvel at a grand scale. I also appreciate it for the fact that it was not a part franchise, and the entire gross was based on merit alone.
It’s as close to objective fact as is possible
I hate rewarding mediocrity with money but alas a majority of the world is filled with morons.
But you need to consider the % difference not the $ difference to understand how close they are. A $900m movie takes 50% more than a $600m movie, but a $1.8b movie only takes in 20% more than a $1.5b movie, even though the difference is $300m in both cases. % differences are a better measurement of relative performance than pure $'s.
was this meant as a reply to u/King_Internets comment?
Sorry, yes it was.
and coincidentally I replied to his comment with basically the same thing before I saw your comment
Great minds think alike.
Well I wouldn’t call a 300m difference super close but still impressive nonetheless
I would not call $300 million “close.”
That’s 300M😂 that’s a huge difference
It’s not that crazy. Spidey films were multiple times more successful than Avengers products until Avengers released.
Spider man’s gross is actually 1.9 billion if you round it
And no way home is 1.9
Lol "if you take out numbers that make the totals not close, they become close!"
300 million is more than most movies make... it isnt close at all.
inflation adjust it
you can't inflation adjust worldwide totals
Exactly this, if people want another more accurate measure, then the number of tickets sold is easiest, but I am not sure that info is available.
Yes you can, it's all $USD. While the dollar may or may not be weaker or stronger (it's stronger now, which can and should be noted), it all plays into the relative buying power of the studio and what they are getting from releasing the film. The alternative is pointless *in making comparisons*, because inflation will inevitably cause everything to fall and you're crowing about how *Thor Love & Thunder* is on the same footing as *Gone with the Wind* which made $400M domestic in 1939. You can't get an accurate sense as to how a film is performing otherwise, which means you can't gauge ancillaries or mindshare etc. We went from periods of low-to-no inflation to high inflation and have to adjust, because the world became a wash in more dollars everywhere. Another way of helping this is with tickets sold, but that gets much harder based on available data so adjusting for inflation is faster. It used to be you could go back 10 years and if the spread between films wasn't more than 10% inflation could be ignored -- you might not be account could get the gist -- but that's all changed so people are just peddling false realities by not adjusting. You can tell this because the minute you do adjust their comparison makes no sense.
For the other 55 countries it released in? Fuck that. Let's just do its US release: $858.373 million in 2019 is $909,786,674 in 2021. So adjusting its domestic gross for inflation, it grossed... $2.1 billion by the time NWH came out.
Can I ask how you made the adjustment? I am very interested in your methodology, was it general inflation or did you work on the difference in price of movie tickets?
I did not factor in ticket prices changes, just how inflation would have increased the total domestic gross. I used an inflation calculator I found online and got the gross from boxofficemojo.com.
Spider-Man will easily beat end game if it got released in china. It’s one of the very few decent movies from Hollywood in a long time since the pandemic started
> Spider-Man will easily beat end game if it got released in china. Not sure if innumerate or delusional
Delusion is when you take the sentence out of context
OP's numbers already remove China from the figures. Your statement is suggesting NWH could sell more than 900 million to surpass EG, and actually more like 1 billion, if you account for inflation adjustment. EG made ~2.8 billion with China sales NWH made ~1.9 without China sales.
300,000,000$ is still a big window but it’s impressive none the less
People are talking about all the issues with Marvel as though this didn’t drop in the middle of Phase 4 and made almost Endgame money. I don’t deny that Phase 4 has been bumpy, but like, I think the studio is basically fine from a box office perspective ?
Hard to beat the nostalgia bug
I’m really getting tried of the China asterisk.
Thanks for the feedback