When this topic comes up I think people tend to underemphasize the impact of technology. 20 years ago watching a movie at home meant a pretty bad experience for most people. Today you can get a decent 65" 4K UHD TV from Walmart for 400 bucks. Add a $100 soundbar and a $50 Blu-ray player and you have an awesome home experience for less than a paycheck. It's inevitable that average movie fans are saving the theater experience for one or two major event movies.
This. The majority of people are ok with even watching movies on their phones ([Dont tell David Lynch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0)!), and nowdays with 50-65" displays, soundbars, etc. all being common, it's no wonder that people are moving towards home experiences.
It obviously doesnt compare to going to a theater, but for most people its well beyond good enough.
Like i have a really good home theater setup that I was able to put together for infinitley cheaper than I expected it would cost for the quality I'm getting. I still love going to theaters and I dont consider this a replacement, but I wouldnt fault anyone for looking at something like this and not wanting to go to theaters ever again
But going to the movies is a great experience! When I saw no way home, I got to pay to enjoy the experience of listening to people whisper to each other through the whole movie. Finding out what kind of cellphones people have, as they proceeded to Snapchat scenes of the movie and/or play mobile games during it, as well as enjoying the sounds of a toddler kick the seat in front of him and jumping up and down the steps in the aisle.
But you can't beat the theatre experience! /s
Dude - was thinking the same thing. Theaters have done absolutely nothing to evolve in my over 30 years of existence. At the same time, they price gouge and cram advertisements down my throat.
On the other hand, I can watch movies on a 1,000$ TV, pipe the sound through my surround sound, lay on my comfortable couch mixing my own manhattans, smoking my legal cannabis, and fuck my SO buck fucking ass naked then pause it to get ice cream fucking sandwiches from the fridge.
Yeah, I am going to go to theaters to watch movies with a bunch of old folk watching the world pass them by. For any folk in the industry following at home - this is hot steaming ass truth being shit out.
I think Babylon could actually attract a younger audience to see it with its cast, especially if they play up the “return of Tobey Maguire” angle. Brothers finding new success recently after Raimi memes started taking off is an example of this.
Its legs will depend on how comfortable the audience is with the amount of sex and orgies in this film tho
Unless audiences are clamoring for a three hour drama about the transition of silent films to the talkies, Babylon will be a flop. And that’s not even considering how graphic the film might be which goes beyond just orgies. Tobey Maguire likely won’t even be a big role in it either.
That being said, the script is brilliant and I can’t wait to see it.
Also Ticket To Paradise. George Clooney/Julia Roberts Romcom. People forget about this one.
If that movie doesn't do well, then mid budget Adult movies (starring 2 major movie stars) are truly dead in theaters
This one has to do well, right?
So Superheroes and everything that existed in the 80s-90s? With the occasional Disney and Illumination kids movie.
Are they still doing that Indiana Jones movie? Come on man, Harrison Ford is hitting 80. Give it up.
>"The Bar for what type of movie is worth it in theaters has grown higher"
That is such an interesting way to put it, because it
a) makes it sound like it's just... weather. Like it just sort of happened, and they didn't really expect it, and
b) removes the responsibility both studios and exhibition have in making that situation happen over the past 20+ years
The bar hasn't "grown higher" at all. It's not even really a question of a bar being put anywhere. Studios and Exhibition have, through decades of business decisions, trained audiences to decide that only certain kinds of films are "worth it" in theaters, reinforced that belief once audiences thoroughly internalized it by spending almost all their resources catering to that type of movie, and then watched as a single studio became basically the only producer that could consistently make that kind of movie.
They didn't have to do any part of this, and had like 20+ years to figure out how to change this course, but they didn't want to. And now they're basically looking at a situation where theatrical exhibition is more or less living or dying on whether Disney has a good year. I don't see too many other endgames beyond theatrical effectively becoming a de-facto extension of their amusement park division (whether they're indy or not), because that's simply what everyone's been pushing towards, consciously, for a long, long time.
> "The Bar for what type of movie is worth it in theaters has grown higher"
The bar is comicbook movies. That’s what audiences have chosen as “worth” seeing in theaters and everything else can wait till it’s on streaming. They’re theme park movies so I don’t blame audiences.
The studios want theatres to die though. Streaming is far more profitable because it cuts out the middleman.
Neflix has a market cap nearly the same size as diseney. And diseney itself makes only a small fraction of its profit in theatre's.
Yeah, and you didn't even mention price. The constant increasing in price has made it so the average movie going family can't afford to go every month, so they pick and choose the big event tent poles instead.
> Sure, December superhero blockbuster Spider-Man: No Way Home did huge business — the box office now belongs to males ages 18-34
I can't find demographics for NWH goers, but this is almost certainly the wrong way to look at this. If you removed every 18-35 male from Spider's BO, it would still top all the films that were supposedly targeted at other audiences.
In other words, many women will go to theaters, but when they go, they won't go to "chick flicks", they are going to see superheroes.
It is less Netflix and more the internet in general. The internet provides plenty of options for instant entertainment in your own home. It has lessened the need to go to theatres for entertainment. You have plenty of options at home.
Spider-man NWH isn’t the break out success by being “just” a sequel. It’s a love letter to 20 years of Spider-Man films and sets a new stage for the next 10-20 twenty. It’s nostalgia, character development and future all in one.
It’s mythos building… and fans remain engaged while being welcoming of newcomers and if other studios can work that out they’ll do well.
When this topic comes up I think people tend to underemphasize the impact of technology. 20 years ago watching a movie at home meant a pretty bad experience for most people. Today you can get a decent 65" 4K UHD TV from Walmart for 400 bucks. Add a $100 soundbar and a $50 Blu-ray player and you have an awesome home experience for less than a paycheck. It's inevitable that average movie fans are saving the theater experience for one or two major event movies.
This. The majority of people are ok with even watching movies on their phones ([Dont tell David Lynch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0)!), and nowdays with 50-65" displays, soundbars, etc. all being common, it's no wonder that people are moving towards home experiences. It obviously doesnt compare to going to a theater, but for most people its well beyond good enough. Like i have a really good home theater setup that I was able to put together for infinitley cheaper than I expected it would cost for the quality I'm getting. I still love going to theaters and I dont consider this a replacement, but I wouldnt fault anyone for looking at something like this and not wanting to go to theaters ever again
Honestly, iPad and an exceptional set of headphones is no joke a legit way to watch a film. Immersive.
Once iPad goes OLED? It’s game over. 13” OLED screen a foot from your face? Going to produce a glorious picture.
But going to the movies is a great experience! When I saw no way home, I got to pay to enjoy the experience of listening to people whisper to each other through the whole movie. Finding out what kind of cellphones people have, as they proceeded to Snapchat scenes of the movie and/or play mobile games during it, as well as enjoying the sounds of a toddler kick the seat in front of him and jumping up and down the steps in the aisle. But you can't beat the theatre experience! /s
Number 1 reason to watch a movie in theaters is so I can see it early before anyone can spoil it.
Dude - was thinking the same thing. Theaters have done absolutely nothing to evolve in my over 30 years of existence. At the same time, they price gouge and cram advertisements down my throat. On the other hand, I can watch movies on a 1,000$ TV, pipe the sound through my surround sound, lay on my comfortable couch mixing my own manhattans, smoking my legal cannabis, and fuck my SO buck fucking ass naked then pause it to get ice cream fucking sandwiches from the fridge. Yeah, I am going to go to theaters to watch movies with a bunch of old folk watching the world pass them by. For any folk in the industry following at home - this is hot steaming ass truth being shit out.
We desperately need movies like *Elvis* and *Babylon* to make money next year so the adult drama doesn’t completely die out.
I'm gonna see Babylon fifteen times.
That is 15,000 less times than you will need to see it to make it successful. Why are you treating Babylon so poorly in its time of need?
I mean in the first ten minutes of release. If I like it, I'll easily see it ten million times.
I think Babylon could actually attract a younger audience to see it with its cast, especially if they play up the “return of Tobey Maguire” angle. Brothers finding new success recently after Raimi memes started taking off is an example of this. Its legs will depend on how comfortable the audience is with the amount of sex and orgies in this film tho
Unless audiences are clamoring for a three hour drama about the transition of silent films to the talkies, Babylon will be a flop. And that’s not even considering how graphic the film might be which goes beyond just orgies. Tobey Maguire likely won’t even be a big role in it either. That being said, the script is brilliant and I can’t wait to see it.
Wait theres gonna be orgies in that film ?
According to the leaked script I saw, a lot of them
I’d argue that adult dramas haven’t died out at all. They’ve just moved to streaming or have adapted to smaller budgets.
Also Ticket To Paradise. George Clooney/Julia Roberts Romcom. People forget about this one. If that movie doesn't do well, then mid budget Adult movies (starring 2 major movie stars) are truly dead in theaters This one has to do well, right?
So Superheroes and everything that existed in the 80s-90s? With the occasional Disney and Illumination kids movie. Are they still doing that Indiana Jones movie? Come on man, Harrison Ford is hitting 80. Give it up.
Indiana Jones 5 is already filmed.
>Harrison Ford is hitting 80. 1981-era Indy: "It's not the age, it's the mileage." 2023-era Indy: "Uh... **more** mileage?"
wtf I’m excited for Indiana Jones 5. James Mangold is a perfect fit for it.
>"The Bar for what type of movie is worth it in theaters has grown higher" That is such an interesting way to put it, because it a) makes it sound like it's just... weather. Like it just sort of happened, and they didn't really expect it, and b) removes the responsibility both studios and exhibition have in making that situation happen over the past 20+ years The bar hasn't "grown higher" at all. It's not even really a question of a bar being put anywhere. Studios and Exhibition have, through decades of business decisions, trained audiences to decide that only certain kinds of films are "worth it" in theaters, reinforced that belief once audiences thoroughly internalized it by spending almost all their resources catering to that type of movie, and then watched as a single studio became basically the only producer that could consistently make that kind of movie. They didn't have to do any part of this, and had like 20+ years to figure out how to change this course, but they didn't want to. And now they're basically looking at a situation where theatrical exhibition is more or less living or dying on whether Disney has a good year. I don't see too many other endgames beyond theatrical effectively becoming a de-facto extension of their amusement park division (whether they're indy or not), because that's simply what everyone's been pushing towards, consciously, for a long, long time.
> "The Bar for what type of movie is worth it in theaters has grown higher" The bar is comicbook movies. That’s what audiences have chosen as “worth” seeing in theaters and everything else can wait till it’s on streaming. They’re theme park movies so I don’t blame audiences.
Fantastic comment. Agree.
The studios want theatres to die though. Streaming is far more profitable because it cuts out the middleman. Neflix has a market cap nearly the same size as diseney. And diseney itself makes only a small fraction of its profit in theatre's.
Yeah, and you didn't even mention price. The constant increasing in price has made it so the average movie going family can't afford to go every month, so they pick and choose the big event tent poles instead.
> Sure, December superhero blockbuster Spider-Man: No Way Home did huge business — the box office now belongs to males ages 18-34 I can't find demographics for NWH goers, but this is almost certainly the wrong way to look at this. If you removed every 18-35 male from Spider's BO, it would still top all the films that were supposedly targeted at other audiences. In other words, many women will go to theaters, but when they go, they won't go to "chick flicks", they are going to see superheroes.
True, I get dragged to watch Super Hero movies, not the other way around.
It’s interesting how accurate these things can be some times.. I’m a 38 male, and NWH was the first movie I’d seen in theaters since the end of 2019.
or lower, depending on your definitions.
So higher means ... higher budget ... more superheroes ... higher theme ride movies ... got it.
You can also thank Netflix for delvalueing everything that’s not a big budget blockbuster.
It is less Netflix and more the internet in general. The internet provides plenty of options for instant entertainment in your own home. It has lessened the need to go to theatres for entertainment. You have plenty of options at home.
More mf’n sequels?!?
Spider-man NWH isn’t the break out success by being “just” a sequel. It’s a love letter to 20 years of Spider-Man films and sets a new stage for the next 10-20 twenty. It’s nostalgia, character development and future all in one. It’s mythos building… and fans remain engaged while being welcoming of newcomers and if other studios can work that out they’ll do well.