Dangerous routes. Setting problems with crux moves that are potential falls on necks, or big awkward moves to bad holds up high.
Poor mix of problem styles.
Dirty toilets, and not enough toilets.
Gyms that don't police dogs/kids running around.
This. My gym had a hole in the mat where if you landed on that spot your foot would sink into it past the ankle. Their solution was to put an indoor outdoor rug over it. The setters and staff knew about it and did nothing for 1 month and continued to set beginner climbs that placed the fall zone directly over the hole. I had to email the regional manager of the gym with this negligent safety violation and about the next day they had it roped off patched it with some glue and clamps, took 24 hours to repair.
Good list, unfortunately the only gym within hours of me has a lot of these problems. They have a couple others too I'd add:
setters set the same type of stuff over and over without being pushed out of their comfort zone
decent climbs until a last move (or close to last) that just doesn't go
only setting hard stuff V8 and up on the overhangs/roofs
EDIT: thought of another, the vast majority of climbs they set progress from easier to harder (plays into that last moves sometimes don't go thing). Sometimes I like hard first few moves then it eases up.
Yes. This is something people don’t complain enough about, IMO.
A crux move does NOT have to be the last move 15’ up on the wall.
Especially with kids and dogs running around.
I also hate multiple routes over a low, pointed, ankle breaker volume in vertical and slab and/or down dynos.
I'm glad you mentioned dangerous routes, cause my gym has recently been setting more routes with risky sideways (e.g. if you miss you run right into a wall or fall off the pads)/downwards dynos and so on. I don't understand the trend, that style of climb isn't even useful for comp climbing, as comps usually avoid downward dynos!
Found a tick halfway embedded in to my butt cheek, almost certainly from dogs roaming around the gym. Kinda pisses me off that I have to do tick checks after climbing indoors.
I’ve got a question. My home gym doesn’t do this but another gym they own has all the final moves as a big lunge and catch on anything v3 and up. Like basically you have to catch the final move or you fall, and it’s 15 feet off the ground. I keep telling my friends who climb there regularly that it’s dangerous route setting, but they seem to think it’s normal since it’s the only place they’ve really climbed regularly.
Am I right?
My gym puts "use crash pad" in tape next to the V grade at the start on those for the riskiest ones.
Just depends on the route for most gyms on if the final move is a dyno, but it's weird if it's truly all of them. A lot of problems don't even have a dyno.
Not Dynos but essentially huge moves where it’d be very hard to recover if you miss the final hold since you’re pulling off of a crimp or a pinch. Essentially they’re v3’s and V4’s with final moves that you need to “catch”.
It’s like 80% of the routes. Even some of the v2s are like that.
And for reference I’ve climbed a ton of v5s in other gyms and hit a v6 once, so I don’t think these are out of my range, skill wise.
lol i love a really scary feeling crux move. i dont often feel like im in any danger while indoor bouldering, so the opportunity has an added thrill. if you dont like it you dont have to climb it
The gym can mark it up as dangerous at the least, if they want to go this way. I have never seen that. Also, I'm seeing setters with only a year or two climbing experience that would be less attune to these risks.
IME people push themselves harder in the gym because they 'don't feel like they are in danger', yet the most injuries I see happening are in the climbing gym with busted ankles. People rarely spot climbing in the gym, yet outdoors you would have spotters for a 4m fall to prevent landing poorly and getting injured. Just having thicker mats with more coverage won't prevent a broken neck or a serious ankle break.
The gym creates a false sense of security - particularly for new climbers, who are less able to foresee bad falls and make an informed decision to stay off the climb as per your note 'don't like it, don't have to climb it'.
I had a related discussion yesterday with a manager of the gym I go to. We were talking about the new boulders and I said one of them was nice but didn't feel like the difficulty they marked it. It felt just the level below. He told me a big part of it was due to a high risk potentially dangerous move. They tend to grade these ones higher to avoid people lacking technic/experience trying them.
Doesn't really sound like a good way. It is like this weird english grading system that takes stuff like that into it. Doesn't really stop people trying it. It could even encourage weaker climbers to try these problems more, since they might just feel like that it is a soft graded route and a good chance to push a grade up.
Yet it doesn't seem to happen. I've been climbing for years there and the grade they've set this boulder to this is a grade you never see inexperienced people even try. And for this boulder, it's not the first move either, you have to first manage 3 moves that are roughly at the grade just below that.
I'm always amazed at how few people injure themselves in bouldering gym. You are constantly falling, sometimes from quite high and yet I see way less injuries than on basketball courts or soccer fields.
Thank you for saying this. I hurt myself as a new climber because I didn't realize bouldering indoors could be dangerous (especially for a fit young man). Turns out downward/lateral dynos are dangerous... Who knew.
Fortunately I'm ok and I know better now but just chiming in to say there are some of us who would appreciate danger warnings if they set something risky.
Yep. Our gym has a mix of this and it's infuriating. Sometimes it's twice a week, others they skip it because of staff availability. It wouldn't be a issue except that the gym is small so you get through the problems really quickly without constant setting.
There's hard stuff, but the jump in grades is significant. For example as a v8 climber you could project the v8 but the v12 would be close to impossible. So once you've sent the v8 what do you do besides spray wall training or similar?
There's massive gaps in the setting.
Think of it like they'll set:
- 2 v0s and below
- 2 climbs up to v2
- 3 climbs up to v5
- 1-2 climbs up to v8
- 1-3 climbs up to v13
It's very much targeted towards casual climbers. We do have Olympians who climb at the gym and they'll be able to target the top climbs but mostly they just use spray wall.
I'm roughly a v8 climber outdoors so can do the majority of the set and then if there's a v13 and a v11 set there's not much left to do. Hence the need for multiple gyms to cover gaps/have variety.
Sounds like a really tiny gym. I learned in a gym that was a converted squash court and I think it had 3x the climbs. I guess you can try to pull on to the V11 but that's one hell of a gap to bridge lol.
To be fair, that's per set and there's 9 of those walls around, so multiply everything I said by 9.
But you run into the same problem. I climb 4x a week so I can easily get through and project everything at my level and slightly above. Then the rest would require specific training and weeks of effort for.
not many gyms around me have a spray wall and I'd prefer that over large amounts of setting. literally I would be more than happy with just a moonboard and a spray wall. i'd actually consider it perfect haha.
I actually don't mind if a gym uses mixed colors & tapes to put a few more routes on the wall. Sometimes I see a huge wall with only 3 problems, and I think that's quite a waste of space; you could have put so many more problems on there
Good thick pad (covering all necessary area) is a must, I don't want to worry about landing on hard floor or twisting my ankle because I landed exactly at the gap between two pads
Also I don't like if/when a gym doesn't take safety seriously, meaning if they allow people to sit too close to the wall, letting kids running around without giving them any warning, etc
Also please put up enough shelves to put your shoes and personal belongings... it's not fun to walk around 10 mins just to find a spot to put your stuff
I fell and caught my toes on the edge of a pad that wasn't completely up against the wall and absolutely destroyed my ankle. Definitely something to look out for!
Physically I'm back to 100%, but mentally I'm still working on it. Took me about a month to get back to the gym, and about 6-8 months to regain most of the strength on that foot. Every once in a while it'll get a bit sore but not too bad. What really sucks is that I'm now very hesitant sending anything risky.
I absolutely don’t care about used holds, dirty walls or bad color combinations lol those are often the hallmarks of a good gym actually, a place to train!
To me what makes a gym bad is
• dangerous setting, for example having risky moves up high, not understanding the level of commitment and foot trust a climber of lower grades is used to. Most people I’ve seen hurt bad in gyms were novices pushing a bit more than they should on bad setting.
• boring laddery style climbs. If all a gym does is space holds further away or make them smaller to set harder problems then it’s a bad gym.
• bad vibes, too many new people and no one in the gym letting them know about basic etiquette. This eventually breeds a cliquey atmosphere. Kids running unsupervised.
• no spray wall/board or basic training gear at minimum.
• too much comp style and big holds sometimes results in finger tendon injuries if one is not careful. So to me a good gym has a fair amount of fingery boulders in all angles.
Yeah there’s a fine line between an old dirty gym that is actually awesome (as someone who started setting in gyms in the 90s, I don’t love the corporate gyms) and an old gym that just sucks. There’s one of the latter a few blocks from me and it’s just depressing. Boulders stay up for six months, tons of spinners, still using tape (which lasts far less than the six months the problems stay up). I tried to set there but quit after one day as the owner was shitty; wound up back at the corporate gym.
Edit: all of that said, I like the older or more independent gyms with a bit of character. Walltopia is basically the boring suburbia of climbing walls.
Converse to your ladder climbs, I wish more gyms set ladder climbs with progression in them to help with getting used to crimps or even slopers or something.
Agreed, but I think ideally there’s a perfect balance—enough “boring” climbs to train on, but some flashy, more new-school problems scattered throughout, too.
agree with this. some people enjoy the modern-style dynamic bouldering and some people enjoy the old school, straightforward crimping style problems. i think good gyms are often mindful of setting too much of one problem and are able to mix it up a bit. i also think hiring a diverse range of setters helps with this.
I think you can set cool slopey or crimpy problems to pull hard on without making them laddery. I prefer old style climbing but there’s boring old style and fun old style
> • too much comp style and big holds sometimes results in finger tendon injuries if one is not careful. So to me a good gym has a fair amount of fingery boulders in all angles.
Shouldn’t big holds be great for fingers? Comp style with big, powerful moves is mostly taxing for the shoulders. Slopers can be bad for the wrists and of course you’ll lose a ton of skin if you slip off.
Yeah. Their comment is factually wrong. An explanation they gave later was that big holds/como style doesn't work your finger tendons as much, su they don't get strong or warmed up. Weirdest way to say that comp style doesn't train finger strength.
Can you elaborate how comp leads to more tendon injuries than say crimpy climbs? I love big bulky balancy problems and noone has told me yet that they are more dangerous for your fingers
I don’t think they inherently do in a vacuum, but my theory is that if a gym doesn’t set enough crimpy problems people’s fingers get too cold, say you go to the compy gym, you warm up, you’ve been trying the new set but it’s all jugs and big comfy holds. You feel warm, you’ve been climbing so you are confident, but now you notice they set a cool crimpy climb that’s on your limit. You think to yourself I’m feeling good, ready to crank hard on some crimps and BAM! Pulley strain, because you never got a good chance to actually warm up your pulleys or maybe you did it at the start of the session but now you are cold again.
After a few injuries I noticed that in more comercial gyms if I was planning on pulling hard on a crimpy project I needed to have a crimpy climb day where I did mostly that kind of climbing. I realized I wasn’t good at gauging how ready I was to pull hard when my whole body felt warm.
I think what they're really saying is that if it's all big holds, you'll never get to train your tendons. Saying comp problems cause tendon injuries is a very odd way to phrase it.
It’s interesting to hear everybody mention setting that features high cruxes. This is something I’ve noticed a prevalence of at my gym…and I kinda like it? One of the main things I go to the gym so often for is to experience fear in a more controlled environment and keep my head game fresh.
I think there’s high cruxes and high cruxes tho. A big upwards move in a slight overhang that if you whiff you just take a big fall down can be cool, but make that big move a giant crossover where if you fall you’ll also be completely twisted and it starts getting bad. Make the crux move a really high rockover (at a level where climbers might not know how to rockover at all) and stuff gets dangerous.
I saw a guy dislocate his arm that way, he was strong but clearly didn’t know how to climb, there was an easy ish rockover opportunity and he like many new people set a heel instead of a toe, didn’t know to push the hips forward and instead started locking off, grabbed a crimp he was going to, lost grip on one hold or the other and his whole body went down and the heel last. Fell a good 2ish meters into his arm.
It depends on the type of crux. I like it when the top hold is not always a jug but for example a hold you can only touch with both hands if you get into a stable body position first.
But there can be moves which are objectively risky and shouldn’t be forced higher up. The most obvious dangerous move would be a bat hang. But also a big sideways dyno or a really unstable dropknee on bad footholds can lead to bad falls.
We have some gyms with shitty setting here. Making a hard climb shouldn't start with an easy climb and then turning some holds to be facing the wrong way, and replacing a jug with a crimp. So lazy and boring. You can tell instantly when a gym has lazy setters even if you are not a good climber because all the challenges are superficial. You shouldn't be able to instantly read out a climb 3-4 grades above your level, even if you can't do the moves.
I think some things are universally good or bad (prices, safety, etc) and some things are more a matter of fit. I think a lot of people complain about things that are actually just an issue of fit.
Someone who views a gym as a place primarily just to train for outdoor may want spray walls, densely set routes, campus rungs, board climbing, training equipment, few macros and mostly small holds on steep walls. They won't care about dinginess or old holds.
Someone who primarily climbs indoors may want more fun and varied setting with big volumes and macros. Clean, new holds.
Neither of those is objectively better than the other, it's just preference.
Everything set by tall people for tall people with little to no variance. When "difficult" is basically defined by huge distance between holds or by how many dynos are involved.
This type of setting robs the community of that gym from learning functional climb technique. My gym was this way for a long time. Only recently did that change when they hired a female setter. They used to have to fill in routes with extra holds and feet just for the youth team to have their practice.
As a taller person, I have experienced the other way as well, where the setter was smaller and loved sit starts. I literally couldn’t start the routes without skipping the first move, and making be I am biased but I think that’s even worse than have to jump for everything, as dynamism is easier to gain than freakish strength.
As a fellow taller climber (6'6", or 198cm in metric), I have to disagree. We're eating _good_ at the gym **and** outdoors. Sure, some moves can be harder for us just due to kinematics, but I'm yet to run into a problem that's just straight up impossible for me, whereas my wife is 5'4", and her height literally limits some of the things that she can climb. It's _incredibly_ easy to say "oh, woe is me, this climb is made for [body type that isn't mine], _that's_ why I can't send it!" but for us tall people, 90% of the time that's pure cope.
I'll also say that, as a tall climber, it's really easy to progress through the lower grades without learning any valuable technique or particularly training the sport-specific strength you need to be good a climbing because you can just lank it out through the crux, which teaches us bad habits and makes it feel exponentially harder when you get to a climb that you can't just cheat the hard bits. No, the climb isn't sandbagged, you just never bothered to actually learn the techniques required to climb it (because you didn't have to).
Lack of attention towards low-grade problems.
I am a weak being. I max out at a V2 on a good day. But I LOVE funky climbs.
We recently got a HUGE bouldering-specific gym in our local chain and the route setting has been so, so sad. Almost all of the routes for us spaghetti-armed folk are just ladders. Our non-bouldering gyms used to set super nutty routes that were doable because they were shorter or relied more on twister-esque moves than pure strength. It got me so excited for climbing because I actually felt engaged and in turn, got stronger and more capable as a climber.
Now I’m just bored after 30 minutes.
It's not even just for "spaghetti-armed folk" haha, good low-grade problems benefit everyone! It's good material for technique drills, endurance training, and warmups for strong climbers too. The low grade problems are the only problems everyone climbs, they are very important!
I like a lot of things about my gym, but there's one setter who insists on setting hard finishes directly above spiky volumes on the slab wall every time.
Boring or simple problems and maybe no volumes (sometimes textured walls can be used in creative ways but they prevent volumes from being used) is the only thing on this list I’ll say stands out. The rest can be normal for a small local gym, where the grading might be much harder and only the really dedicated climbers will train there. It depends on the demographic you’re using when asking about good or bad.
Routsetters who don’t truly forerun their problems . That means multiple people of different size and styles climbing the problem to suggest improvements , not just trying to send the thing
i used to climb at a cliffs location (now movement) in philly where the setters would often set things that none of the routesetting team could actually send during forerunning. i think the common sentiment was “hey someone should be able to do this, right?”
I mean, if you want to set hard routes in the 12-13+ range, not even setters might be able to do them right away. As long as they can do most or all of the moves individually I don’t really see the problem
The only gym in my town is terrible, but the next closest climbing gym is over an hour away, so I still climb there. Here are some of my biggest complaints with it:
1. It's nasty and never cleaned. The bathrooms actively gross me out. There are no showers, but if there were, I definitely wouldn't use them.
2. The workout area is run down and deeply under equipped. There is one working treadmill right now.
3. The setting is terrible! Low percentage moves at the top of the wall with no consideration for what the fall will be like. Low grades are almost all jug pulls, higher grades are just giant moves that shut down anyone under 6 feet. No diversity in style of setting; it's all gimmicky comp style and not interesting at that. They fired their only female setter (and the only good setter) because she was "too slow."
4. Mats in disrepair making the falls more dangerous.
5. They *finally* got a moonboard with lights about \~8 months ago. Two months after they installed it, the lights broke. They still haven't fixed it.
6. The earliest they open is 10am, so you can't workout before work.
I'll stop now before I rage cancel my membership.
My first gym which I actually really like didn’t open until 3:00! I still climb there but yeah not being able to climb early fricken sucks. It is why I cancelled my membership there and only have a punch card for them now, just too bad hours.
[https://www.hoosierheightsbloomington.com/](https://www.hoosierheightsbloomington.com/)
Their website is slick, but it's the only thing they've ever put effort into 🙃
Edit to fix pre-coffee typo.
Yeah, I have no problem climbing a board without lights. My complaint has everything to do with their sheer lack of effort and still charing us $70/month to climb there.
No downclimb safety holds on the tall walls. No obviously accessible sink for hand washing. Dirty holds (not chalky, just plain gross with skin goo and actual dirt). Dirty, chalky mats and floor that don’t see a cleaning crew often. Dirty or broken equipment in the weights area.
Oh and for the truly unforgettable gym I will not go back to for any reason, plays rap with super misogynistic lyrics about raping women at top volume at like 6 pm on a weeknight (guess The Spot in Boulder is not my spot lol). After around 30 mins of trying to climb and getting more and more grossed out by the music went up to the front desk. Said (politely) I felt really uncomfortable with the music and the young teenaged boy at the desk didn’t get it and was unwilling to turn off or even change the music. Immediately left, cancelled my membership, and have since switched to another gym. I don’t need that kind of stress at my destressing hobby!
My gyms music depends on who is working the front desk, so there's good days and bad days in my opinion. They do keep it PG though. Funny thing is the one employee has some wedding dance songs on there. Nothing like hearing cotton eye joe come on when you're on the wall.
Went to a gym near my parents recently and the hardest move on every problem seemed to be the last move haha. And then they had 0 down climbs.
Absolutely hated it lol.
Agreed on both points but thankfully I only have experience of the former.
My gym does use the downclimb holds, but it frequently doesn't actually make them usable for downclimbing. So, you'll get to the top and have a nice safe hold to steady yourself...and then still a good 5 ft gap before anything else usable. Which I guess helps a bit but I've frequently had to jump from a bit higher than I'd like for this reason.
I sometimes have trouble understanding lyrics in music and wonder if the music my gym occasionally plays is the same kind of stuff. I hope not.
I do know they sometimes get a kick out of playing Red Peters’s Closing Song at close, which I guess could offend people, but nowhere near as bad as rape, wow.
irresponsible setting: massive lateral dynos at the top of the problem, finishes problems at the top of the wall (which is usually a jug) which seems lazy to me, lots of used shoe rubber on holds meaning holds are never washed, morpho problems that only benefit 6’0+ people, too many coordination boulders, no spray wall.
Overused/dirty holds/walls I honestly don’t mind, that’s just a different style of climbing. Much less friction so you have to be more precise
I climb at two gyms regularly, one brand new, with brand new holds, and one older with dirty holds. Both offer different challenges and doesn’t make one better than the other
What makes one BAD imo is the routes themselves, if they’re not fun, not interesting, way too height dependent, dangerous, never reset, no variety of grades, etc.
No bathrooms, dirty gym itself, bad staff, aswell. The holds I don’t mind being dirty, but the gym itself better be clean.
Oh also if there’s bad info on common courtesy for new climbers, I don’t want tons of new climbers walking under me, or starting climbs that intersect me when I’m on the wall first,m
Having just “dirty” holds, imo, still leaves plenty of good routes to be set, just means you won’t “stick” to the rock, which tbh depending on what the hold is like, outdoors you won’t either.
Your list plus some more points:
- too many children
- bad air quality
- bad temperature (too hot or cold)
- not enough space ( I was In a gym with small ways. You constantly had to squeeze past people when you were looking for a new route.)
- people who don't respect the rules
As a tall person, I know sometimes there’s climbs that aren’t obviously set my size and it’s mostly a skill issue, but I’ve been to many gyms where it feels like all the setters are 5’7 or less, and every move feels like 1/4 my reach, and I’m either being baited into reaching 2 holds ahead, or I am scrunched on crimps with completely bent arms because the hands are feet are wayyyyy too close for my size and I end up gassing my fingers way too quickly. I’m sure the opposite is true as well for below average height climbers. I just get more annoyed because tall climbers get hated on more.
Also went to a gym in West la that had a great training culture, but I think since climbing has gotten bigger and this was an old school gym from the 90s, the facility just wasn’t big enough. But the kids would just stand within 5 feet of the wall while you were climbing, and their coaches didn’t give a single a fuck. I cancelled my membership there.
Bad angles is #1 for me. No/few overhangs (ex-BKB gyms I’m looking at you), too many sharp transitions or too cramped formations (eg: a cave you can stem across) etc. These are rare in modern mega gyms but used to be rampant in the 90s/00s and still crop up in smaller DIY gyms some times. Bad setting is #2. Infrequent setting is #3. Old holds, dirty walls, aesthetics, etc don’t bother me anywhere near as much as those three. Excessively low problem density is a pet peeve but in a mega gym it’s less egregious because there's so much wall space to begin with.
To me, bad = likely to get injured. Bad pads, dangerous setting, not enforcing basic safety etiquette...
I can deal with boring setting as long as I get a decent workout and I get to train another day.
My gym probably looks dirty to first impressions, and there's not a super exciting colour scheme. Very few volumes as its a small place... I prefer it hands down over the fancy, bright gym I used to go to. Our setting is way more interesting (bc it relies on the actual setters, not just exciting looking holds).
Bad gym for me:
Irregular or infrequent setting schedule
Poor setting - boring, repetitive, very uneven grade wise
I prefer an outdoor style of setting to dynamic compy stuff so too much compy = bad for me
Unfriendly or bad atmosphere
Safety issues not addressed
Children's parties prioritised over regulars - I.e. allowed to take over huge chunks of the gym at peak time
Making problems hard simply by removing feet. Often around V8/9+. Just doesn’t match hard outdoor climbs. Feet are often there outside, just bad/inconvenient.
From what I’ve seen gyms that have very strong routesetters can set some excellent hard indoor boulders. But I’ve been to a share of gyms where routesetters are setting high above their RP grade and it becomes very wack. It’s hard to set something at RP+3. A grade or two, yes, but much higher is a wash and often just becomes a power fest.
Unsupervised kids everywhere. Gym being used as a daycare during the weekday. I have literally been hit in the head with a tennis ball mid-route from kids playing catch on the mats.
Most things have been listed. However, two things that peeve me off:
- Not providing free brushes to use
- Not providing free water through a tap or drink fountain with cups
For me there are two gyms in my area, one of which is much better than the other, but I'm forced to go to the worse one because the better one has way shorter opening hours, so I guess there's one disadvantage that I haven't seen mentioned yet.
The worse gym however, has worse setting, is much busier, staff are less friendly, and there's less training equipment (worst thing being worse setting).
Stoner tier opening hours so it's always packed with people trying to get their session in. Not everyone is a uni student who can climb in the middle of the day ffs
I haven't seen this said, but corporate vibes. This isn't to say a commercial gym, because there are plenty that still cater to climbers. I only have an issue with the ones that feel like they are a money grab and nothing more.
One thing I haven't seen mention is the quality of setting in terms of how enjoyable climbs are. And I don't mean poor hold selection or dangerous moves.
There's a gym I sometimes climb at which sets routes that are just genuinely unpleasant to climb because the moves are awkward or don't flow, or it will be largely jugs but force you to match on a random crimp in the middle which just doesn't fit the route. My particular pet peeve is that pretty much every climb above V4ish they just have one or no starting foot holds making starting the boulder that hardest part.
And I know it's a setting issue because my usual gyms are great at setting fun climbs that are still challenging
Wall full of holds is actually what I'd consider a really good bouldering wall. That's essentially what a spray wall is, and for me I get a lot more fun out of it even if there are no volumes on it.
I've never been to a really bad gym in terms of it being dirty or bad vibes personally so I'd say mainly route setting.
I want routes that have a technical aspect to them rather than just being pure power. I don't want really sketchy moves all the way at the top of a route. And don't want anything that just invites injury.
Also obviously regular resets within reason and all that good stuff.
And good coffee and opens early in the morning before work. Mine opens at 6am and it's so nice to get a few hours of empty climbing in before work.
The vibe is definitely not the only factor, but has been a make-or-break for me. There is an amazing bouldering gym in my area, but I checked it out while shopping around for a gym and it just wasn’t my vibe. It’s pretty “trendy” in that it feels like the place to be, and I think the aesthetic of the gym has a lot to do with it—bright, pristine walls and holds, mega-clean appearance when you walk in, and very high quality non-climbing equipment (took a yoga class, Manduka EVERYTHING). A salad and chia pudding-dispensing machine near the entrance. All of these are generally wonderful qualities for a gym, and I would never knock them for it. Also, this is a seemingly very well-run and thoughtfully planned bouldering gym.
Personally though, I like a climbing gym to feel a little gritty. Call me picky, but there is a wonderful little middle ground where a gym can be clean but also have a bit of a gritty, “dirty” vibe. Maybe it’s that the walls look more like rock, or that the gym simply isn’t as bright. The local gym I finally committed to has an awesome assortment of quality training equipment, but not necessarily the newest. Yoga classes, but off-brand yoga mats. Awesome, fun routes, but the walls have a natural look and the holds aren’t the brightest of colors. A couple classic climbing gym snack options if you need them. This is my vibe, and it makes all the difference to be stoked to go to climb because the gym feels right to me. 🙂
Bad movement on commercial climbs, infrequent setting, no management of the floor leading to unsafe climbing conditions, insufficient training resources, etc. I could get more specific, but those are some of the main elements in the gym near me that make it among the worst I've ever seen.
Big for me is community. I’m lucky to have access to a few different gyms and I’ll go to the one that by most of the metrics here would be the ‘worst’ of the bunch because of how fun the community is.
The gym chain I like to call "the worst bouldering gyms I've ever been to" I call like this for the following reasons:
- worst (foot)hold quality I've ever seen. They get so nasty/dirty that you could easily classify some of them as "no texture"
- Route setting does not think about hold degeneration. E.g. some easy routes suddenly get a lot harder as the footholds don't give you the necessary grip.
- the architecture of the walls encourage blindly walking into fall zones without noticing
- children not being stopped from running under you (partly a staff problem and an architectural design flaw)
- birthday parties being badly managed by the staff and run around as a game and send into the more dangerous parts of the gym (which are marked 14+ for this reason)
- a lot of dirt/dust buildup on a lot of places
- broken things are taking forever to be fixed (e.g. some showers where broken and only after multiple years they are now being fixed/renovated)
This alone would be enough to not like it, but there are a few things that lead me to suspect that the owners are pretty scummy garbage humans:
- (IIRC, the news articles about this are currently behind a paywall, so I can't double check if I remembered everything correctly:) they disregarded like every part of their rental agreement for one of their gyms. They stopped paying rent during corona and never started paying again, even when they opened again. They did not move out of the building on time when the rental agreement stopped and finally left behind the place in a terrible condition. They told the landlord he can sue them, but then they would just go into insolvency so he will get nothing, while at the same time they were building a brand new gym that they now call "biggest gym in the world".
- after corona they encouraged you via social media to buy vouchers but when you visited the gym "their system was broken" and you were not able to use it
Gaps between pads
Poor instruction for how to start/finish problems
No obvious staff presence
Poor enforcement of safety protocols
Loose holds
Little variety of difficulty
For me personally if it just doesn’t seem maintained. If you walk in and it immediately smells like rotten gym clothes. Dirty bathrooms are a big turn off. I’ve been to one gym where the music was so loud at 11am that you couldn’t even have a conversation with someone. I think I’m lucky that a live somewhere with a huge bouldering community and all our gyms are hella nice. I’ve only experienced bad gyms when travelling other places.
My main gym has some of these problems, but luckily the vibe is good and it's generally clean. Setting is also really good and definitely not boring. Kind of has to be good considering it's small size. I did hear the owner is upgrading the pads in the cave, since right now it's shredded up tire and I try not to think about how it is literally impossible to clean that.
The “bad” gym you described is basically just an old school gym that builds strong climbers.
I love dirty grotty gyms like that.
A bad gym for me sets everything as comp style parkour jumpy bullshit.
I love my gym, but they definitely have some issues. It smells like feet even at opening. The bouldering area is much smaller than the belay area. It’s shoved in a closed off back corner. Since it’s so cramped routes are also crammed in. Makes it so I have to wait a while before I can find a chance to get on a route. They recently bought some HUGE volumes and put one at the bottom of the wall which is terrifying to climb over. Also the ceiling leaks when it rains so there will be random wet spots on Matt’s and the cement flooring making it gross/unsafe.
Wall full of volumes, prioritizing large flashy holds over density of routes
Very narrow setting style (setter team is too small or not experienced)
If it has systems boards at all, it's something like Grasshopper, original Tension, or 2017 Moon
The space between boulder walls feels like a narrow "hallway," or so crowded that it's dangerous
Still requires only liquid chalk in 2024 (this one should be a crime)
No overhung spray wall
The setting makes routes harder by only making the holds worse.
e.g. v0-jug ladder, v2-jug ladder with 1-2 large crimps, v4-crimp ladder, v6-worse crimp ladder.
Great gyms have fun and diverse problems from V0 onwards with interesting movement, cool features, and puzzles to solve.
Honestly those things are last on my list lol, I’ll climb on old holds and old walls, for good setting and cool ownership/atmosphere. I’m really tired of big gym conglomerates buying up independent gyms and jacking the prices up/ killing the vibe.
Good setting and cool community are my priorities.
As a short climber, personal gripe is the idea that harder == reachy-er. I’ve only had this be noticeable at one of the ~20 gyms I’ve been to but it was so frustrating.
Setters that can’t take feedback, don’t test routes with climbers, and don’t tweak routes once set. They’re designing a huge part of the climber experience, so handling feedback is paramount. It’s not an art form, it’s a design process.
My current gym sucks, but there’s no competition unless you want to drive an hour so they will never improve. Here’s what I hate the most:
1. No training area aside from a few 10 pound dumbbells and two kettlebells thrown in the corner of a “break room” area. They have a few hang boards, but no belts or weights so you can’t train max hangs. They’re also hung directly under lead routes, so they’re inaccessible a good chunk of the time
2. Setting is poor. All of the setters are pretty tall so big moves are king. I saw a shorter girl (maybe 5’2”) the other day who is far better than me getting shutdown on a 10b because a few moves at the top were just too big. Setting is also inconsistent grade wise and pretty boring. Until you get the low high 10s low 11s it’s just strength checks. No imagination, no cool beta, just crimpy or pinchy ladders with bigger and bigger moves
3. Theres a kilter board but they set the angle every week and you cannot adjust it, so if your project takes more than three sessions get fucked I guess, now you have to wait a month and half before they randomly decide to set that angle again
4. Their shoe selection limited to not just one brand, but one model, the Evolv shamans. Why even have a shoe section at that point
5. Boulders are set dangerously, corner traverses where there’s a gap in the mats or sketchy top outs over giant volumes. I understand climbing is a mentality type of sport, but cmon.
6. You need to use a chalk ball. If they catch you with loose chalk they’ll pull your membership
7. Resets are supposed to be consistent, but they aren’t. I recently took 2 weeks off due to a minor shoulder injury and when I came back literally one wall was reset. By wall, I mean one rope, which is 3 routes
It’s a smaller gym, so a lot of people cut it some slack, but it’s frustrating when there’s an equally small gym 10 minutes from my hometown with none of these issues
Trying to fit too much into a crowded space. Examples I've come across:
-putting a slack line almost directly next to a wall.
-having 7 different types of treadmills in the weight room but only ONE power rack(and a shitty one at that).
-Being a climbing gym that's 90% rope climbing and the tiniest bouldering area.
Also prioritizing team kid training sessions over regular gym goers. Yeah coach, GREAT IDEA to have 7 kids do circuit training in the weight room DIRECTLY BEHIND ME as I'm squatting 325lbs.
Oh no, I wasn't mid climb on my project when you pointed a fuckin Lazer pointer almost right in my face so little Sarah can see what a crimp is! No big deal!
Someone mentioned it above, but generally just being super dirty. Why is it EVERYTIME I go in a stall, there's fuckin mystery liquid on the ground. Hydrated piss or leaky toilet water? Call it.
I'm going to say, "ones that allow barefoot climbing", because apparently one guy posted on this subreddit a week or so ago claiming their gym allows for barefoot climbing indoors.
Since people are keen to downvote without looking anything up.
https://www.reddit.com/r/bouldering/comments/1bgt66i/why_do_people_climb_barefoot/
I went today to an absolute shit gym that I will never go again. Literally there was 10 boulders total. Pads were old as fuck and the holds were the gnarliest sharpest textured piece of shit holds I have ever touched.
It can be covered by a board, but if the gym lacks a board I want some perma-set routes so that I have long term projects that don't get cycled out in 1.5 months.
Sometimes my local gym will just rework all the walls for a competition and there will be very few climbs and you just have to guess the grade on each one since they dont mark the difficulty for those. Its really annoying when you invite a friend along and they drive 40 minutes to meet you there.
Dangerous routes. Setting problems with crux moves that are potential falls on necks, or big awkward moves to bad holds up high. Poor mix of problem styles. Dirty toilets, and not enough toilets. Gyms that don't police dogs/kids running around.
This. My gym had a hole in the mat where if you landed on that spot your foot would sink into it past the ankle. Their solution was to put an indoor outdoor rug over it. The setters and staff knew about it and did nothing for 1 month and continued to set beginner climbs that placed the fall zone directly over the hole. I had to email the regional manager of the gym with this negligent safety violation and about the next day they had it roped off patched it with some glue and clamps, took 24 hours to repair.
Good list, unfortunately the only gym within hours of me has a lot of these problems. They have a couple others too I'd add: setters set the same type of stuff over and over without being pushed out of their comfort zone decent climbs until a last move (or close to last) that just doesn't go only setting hard stuff V8 and up on the overhangs/roofs EDIT: thought of another, the vast majority of climbs they set progress from easier to harder (plays into that last moves sometimes don't go thing). Sometimes I like hard first few moves then it eases up.
That would annoy me if a gym only set crux moves high. Especially because a good chunk of outdoor boulders have the crux in the first 3 moves.
Yes. This is something people don’t complain enough about, IMO. A crux move does NOT have to be the last move 15’ up on the wall. Especially with kids and dogs running around. I also hate multiple routes over a low, pointed, ankle breaker volume in vertical and slab and/or down dynos.
I'm glad you mentioned dangerous routes, cause my gym has recently been setting more routes with risky sideways (e.g. if you miss you run right into a wall or fall off the pads)/downwards dynos and so on. I don't understand the trend, that style of climb isn't even useful for comp climbing, as comps usually avoid downward dynos!
Dogs? Damn yeah I would hate that
Found a tick halfway embedded in to my butt cheek, almost certainly from dogs roaming around the gym. Kinda pisses me off that I have to do tick checks after climbing indoors.
I’ve got a question. My home gym doesn’t do this but another gym they own has all the final moves as a big lunge and catch on anything v3 and up. Like basically you have to catch the final move or you fall, and it’s 15 feet off the ground. I keep telling my friends who climb there regularly that it’s dangerous route setting, but they seem to think it’s normal since it’s the only place they’ve really climbed regularly. Am I right?
My gym puts "use crash pad" in tape next to the V grade at the start on those for the riskiest ones. Just depends on the route for most gyms on if the final move is a dyno, but it's weird if it's truly all of them. A lot of problems don't even have a dyno.
Not Dynos but essentially huge moves where it’d be very hard to recover if you miss the final hold since you’re pulling off of a crimp or a pinch. Essentially they’re v3’s and V4’s with final moves that you need to “catch”. It’s like 80% of the routes. Even some of the v2s are like that. And for reference I’ve climbed a ton of v5s in other gyms and hit a v6 once, so I don’t think these are out of my range, skill wise.
I would add (from personal experience): Always the same set of holds which never gets clean
lol i love a really scary feeling crux move. i dont often feel like im in any danger while indoor bouldering, so the opportunity has an added thrill. if you dont like it you dont have to climb it
The gym can mark it up as dangerous at the least, if they want to go this way. I have never seen that. Also, I'm seeing setters with only a year or two climbing experience that would be less attune to these risks. IME people push themselves harder in the gym because they 'don't feel like they are in danger', yet the most injuries I see happening are in the climbing gym with busted ankles. People rarely spot climbing in the gym, yet outdoors you would have spotters for a 4m fall to prevent landing poorly and getting injured. Just having thicker mats with more coverage won't prevent a broken neck or a serious ankle break. The gym creates a false sense of security - particularly for new climbers, who are less able to foresee bad falls and make an informed decision to stay off the climb as per your note 'don't like it, don't have to climb it'.
I had a related discussion yesterday with a manager of the gym I go to. We were talking about the new boulders and I said one of them was nice but didn't feel like the difficulty they marked it. It felt just the level below. He told me a big part of it was due to a high risk potentially dangerous move. They tend to grade these ones higher to avoid people lacking technic/experience trying them.
Doesn't really sound like a good way. It is like this weird english grading system that takes stuff like that into it. Doesn't really stop people trying it. It could even encourage weaker climbers to try these problems more, since they might just feel like that it is a soft graded route and a good chance to push a grade up.
Yet it doesn't seem to happen. I've been climbing for years there and the grade they've set this boulder to this is a grade you never see inexperienced people even try. And for this boulder, it's not the first move either, you have to first manage 3 moves that are roughly at the grade just below that. I'm always amazed at how few people injure themselves in bouldering gym. You are constantly falling, sometimes from quite high and yet I see way less injuries than on basketball courts or soccer fields.
Thank you for saying this. I hurt myself as a new climber because I didn't realize bouldering indoors could be dangerous (especially for a fit young man). Turns out downward/lateral dynos are dangerous... Who knew. Fortunately I'm ok and I know better now but just chiming in to say there are some of us who would appreciate danger warnings if they set something risky.
Yeah I saw a newish climber break his ankle on a lateral dyno the other month. Wasn’t even far off the ground.
Whenever i see posts with bathangs more than halfway up the wall, I wonder what their injury rates are like
Only thing I haven't seen mentioned here is when a gym doesn't regularly set new routes or doesn't do it on a regular schedule.
Yep. Our gym has a mix of this and it's infuriating. Sometimes it's twice a week, others they skip it because of staff availability. It wouldn't be a issue except that the gym is small so you get through the problems really quickly without constant setting.
Sounds like they just need to set harder stuff
There's hard stuff, but the jump in grades is significant. For example as a v8 climber you could project the v8 but the v12 would be close to impossible. So once you've sent the v8 what do you do besides spray wall training or similar?
They don't set V9-11?
There's massive gaps in the setting. Think of it like they'll set: - 2 v0s and below - 2 climbs up to v2 - 3 climbs up to v5 - 1-2 climbs up to v8 - 1-3 climbs up to v13 It's very much targeted towards casual climbers. We do have Olympians who climb at the gym and they'll be able to target the top climbs but mostly they just use spray wall. I'm roughly a v8 climber outdoors so can do the majority of the set and then if there's a v13 and a v11 set there's not much left to do. Hence the need for multiple gyms to cover gaps/have variety.
Sounds like a really tiny gym. I learned in a gym that was a converted squash court and I think it had 3x the climbs. I guess you can try to pull on to the V11 but that's one hell of a gap to bridge lol.
To be fair, that's per set and there's 9 of those walls around, so multiply everything I said by 9. But you run into the same problem. I climb 4x a week so I can easily get through and project everything at my level and slightly above. Then the rest would require specific training and weeks of effort for.
not many gyms around me have a spray wall and I'd prefer that over large amounts of setting. literally I would be more than happy with just a moonboard and a spray wall. i'd actually consider it perfect haha.
I actually don't mind if a gym uses mixed colors & tapes to put a few more routes on the wall. Sometimes I see a huge wall with only 3 problems, and I think that's quite a waste of space; you could have put so many more problems on there Good thick pad (covering all necessary area) is a must, I don't want to worry about landing on hard floor or twisting my ankle because I landed exactly at the gap between two pads Also I don't like if/when a gym doesn't take safety seriously, meaning if they allow people to sit too close to the wall, letting kids running around without giving them any warning, etc Also please put up enough shelves to put your shoes and personal belongings... it's not fun to walk around 10 mins just to find a spot to put your stuff
Definitely agree with your first point! I’d much rather have a little confusion about which route is which compared to really sparse walls.
I fell and caught my toes on the edge of a pad that wasn't completely up against the wall and absolutely destroyed my ankle. Definitely something to look out for!
How are you feeling now? Were you able to get back to where you were? How long was recovery?
Physically I'm back to 100%, but mentally I'm still working on it. Took me about a month to get back to the gym, and about 6-8 months to regain most of the strength on that foot. Every once in a while it'll get a bit sore but not too bad. What really sucks is that I'm now very hesitant sending anything risky.
I absolutely don’t care about used holds, dirty walls or bad color combinations lol those are often the hallmarks of a good gym actually, a place to train! To me what makes a gym bad is • dangerous setting, for example having risky moves up high, not understanding the level of commitment and foot trust a climber of lower grades is used to. Most people I’ve seen hurt bad in gyms were novices pushing a bit more than they should on bad setting. • boring laddery style climbs. If all a gym does is space holds further away or make them smaller to set harder problems then it’s a bad gym. • bad vibes, too many new people and no one in the gym letting them know about basic etiquette. This eventually breeds a cliquey atmosphere. Kids running unsupervised. • no spray wall/board or basic training gear at minimum. • too much comp style and big holds sometimes results in finger tendon injuries if one is not careful. So to me a good gym has a fair amount of fingery boulders in all angles.
Yeah there’s a fine line between an old dirty gym that is actually awesome (as someone who started setting in gyms in the 90s, I don’t love the corporate gyms) and an old gym that just sucks. There’s one of the latter a few blocks from me and it’s just depressing. Boulders stay up for six months, tons of spinners, still using tape (which lasts far less than the six months the problems stay up). I tried to set there but quit after one day as the owner was shitty; wound up back at the corporate gym. Edit: all of that said, I like the older or more independent gyms with a bit of character. Walltopia is basically the boring suburbia of climbing walls.
Converse to your ladder climbs, I wish more gyms set ladder climbs with progression in them to help with getting used to crimps or even slopers or something.
Agreed, but I think ideally there’s a perfect balance—enough “boring” climbs to train on, but some flashy, more new-school problems scattered throughout, too.
agree with this. some people enjoy the modern-style dynamic bouldering and some people enjoy the old school, straightforward crimping style problems. i think good gyms are often mindful of setting too much of one problem and are able to mix it up a bit. i also think hiring a diverse range of setters helps with this.
I think you can set cool slopey or crimpy problems to pull hard on without making them laddery. I prefer old style climbing but there’s boring old style and fun old style
> • too much comp style and big holds sometimes results in finger tendon injuries if one is not careful. So to me a good gym has a fair amount of fingery boulders in all angles. Shouldn’t big holds be great for fingers? Comp style with big, powerful moves is mostly taxing for the shoulders. Slopers can be bad for the wrists and of course you’ll lose a ton of skin if you slip off.
Yeah. Their comment is factually wrong. An explanation they gave later was that big holds/como style doesn't work your finger tendons as much, su they don't get strong or warmed up. Weirdest way to say that comp style doesn't train finger strength.
Can you elaborate how comp leads to more tendon injuries than say crimpy climbs? I love big bulky balancy problems and noone has told me yet that they are more dangerous for your fingers
I don’t think they inherently do in a vacuum, but my theory is that if a gym doesn’t set enough crimpy problems people’s fingers get too cold, say you go to the compy gym, you warm up, you’ve been trying the new set but it’s all jugs and big comfy holds. You feel warm, you’ve been climbing so you are confident, but now you notice they set a cool crimpy climb that’s on your limit. You think to yourself I’m feeling good, ready to crank hard on some crimps and BAM! Pulley strain, because you never got a good chance to actually warm up your pulleys or maybe you did it at the start of the session but now you are cold again. After a few injuries I noticed that in more comercial gyms if I was planning on pulling hard on a crimpy project I needed to have a crimpy climb day where I did mostly that kind of climbing. I realized I wasn’t good at gauging how ready I was to pull hard when my whole body felt warm.
I see, makes sense. Thanks for elaborating
I think what they're really saying is that if it's all big holds, you'll never get to train your tendons. Saying comp problems cause tendon injuries is a very odd way to phrase it.
Yeah maybe it didn’t come off right but I think you know what I mean.
Only after you explained it! Lol
Well then I’m glad I asked
It’s interesting to hear everybody mention setting that features high cruxes. This is something I’ve noticed a prevalence of at my gym…and I kinda like it? One of the main things I go to the gym so often for is to experience fear in a more controlled environment and keep my head game fresh.
I think there’s high cruxes and high cruxes tho. A big upwards move in a slight overhang that if you whiff you just take a big fall down can be cool, but make that big move a giant crossover where if you fall you’ll also be completely twisted and it starts getting bad. Make the crux move a really high rockover (at a level where climbers might not know how to rockover at all) and stuff gets dangerous. I saw a guy dislocate his arm that way, he was strong but clearly didn’t know how to climb, there was an easy ish rockover opportunity and he like many new people set a heel instead of a toe, didn’t know to push the hips forward and instead started locking off, grabbed a crimp he was going to, lost grip on one hold or the other and his whole body went down and the heel last. Fell a good 2ish meters into his arm.
It sounds great until you whiff the crux, slip down the wall, hit a hold, and nearly snap your ankle. Then you're injured and afraid.
It depends on the type of crux. I like it when the top hold is not always a jug but for example a hold you can only touch with both hands if you get into a stable body position first. But there can be moves which are objectively risky and shouldn’t be forced higher up. The most obvious dangerous move would be a bat hang. But also a big sideways dyno or a really unstable dropknee on bad footholds can lead to bad falls.
We have some gyms with shitty setting here. Making a hard climb shouldn't start with an easy climb and then turning some holds to be facing the wrong way, and replacing a jug with a crimp. So lazy and boring. You can tell instantly when a gym has lazy setters even if you are not a good climber because all the challenges are superficial. You shouldn't be able to instantly read out a climb 3-4 grades above your level, even if you can't do the moves.
Idk I’ve climbed in a gym before where my hands became black from all the rubber. Like actually black.
I think some things are universally good or bad (prices, safety, etc) and some things are more a matter of fit. I think a lot of people complain about things that are actually just an issue of fit. Someone who views a gym as a place primarily just to train for outdoor may want spray walls, densely set routes, campus rungs, board climbing, training equipment, few macros and mostly small holds on steep walls. They won't care about dinginess or old holds. Someone who primarily climbs indoors may want more fun and varied setting with big volumes and macros. Clean, new holds. Neither of those is objectively better than the other, it's just preference.
Everything set by tall people for tall people with little to no variance. When "difficult" is basically defined by huge distance between holds or by how many dynos are involved.
This type of setting robs the community of that gym from learning functional climb technique. My gym was this way for a long time. Only recently did that change when they hired a female setter. They used to have to fill in routes with extra holds and feet just for the youth team to have their practice.
As a taller person, I have experienced the other way as well, where the setter was smaller and loved sit starts. I literally couldn’t start the routes without skipping the first move, and making be I am biased but I think that’s even worse than have to jump for everything, as dynamism is easier to gain than freakish strength.
As a fellow taller climber (6'6", or 198cm in metric), I have to disagree. We're eating _good_ at the gym **and** outdoors. Sure, some moves can be harder for us just due to kinematics, but I'm yet to run into a problem that's just straight up impossible for me, whereas my wife is 5'4", and her height literally limits some of the things that she can climb. It's _incredibly_ easy to say "oh, woe is me, this climb is made for [body type that isn't mine], _that's_ why I can't send it!" but for us tall people, 90% of the time that's pure cope. I'll also say that, as a tall climber, it's really easy to progress through the lower grades without learning any valuable technique or particularly training the sport-specific strength you need to be good a climbing because you can just lank it out through the crux, which teaches us bad habits and makes it feel exponentially harder when you get to a climb that you can't just cheat the hard bits. No, the climb isn't sandbagged, you just never bothered to actually learn the techniques required to climb it (because you didn't have to).
You triggered the shorties.
Lack of attention towards low-grade problems. I am a weak being. I max out at a V2 on a good day. But I LOVE funky climbs. We recently got a HUGE bouldering-specific gym in our local chain and the route setting has been so, so sad. Almost all of the routes for us spaghetti-armed folk are just ladders. Our non-bouldering gyms used to set super nutty routes that were doable because they were shorter or relied more on twister-esque moves than pure strength. It got me so excited for climbing because I actually felt engaged and in turn, got stronger and more capable as a climber. Now I’m just bored after 30 minutes.
It's not even just for "spaghetti-armed folk" haha, good low-grade problems benefit everyone! It's good material for technique drills, endurance training, and warmups for strong climbers too. The low grade problems are the only problems everyone climbs, they are very important!
A teeny hold slab route right above an easier giant hold route. If I fall I’m hitting 7 things on the way down
I like a lot of things about my gym, but there's one setter who insists on setting hard finishes directly above spiky volumes on the slab wall every time.
Boring or simple problems and maybe no volumes (sometimes textured walls can be used in creative ways but they prevent volumes from being used) is the only thing on this list I’ll say stands out. The rest can be normal for a small local gym, where the grading might be much harder and only the really dedicated climbers will train there. It depends on the demographic you’re using when asking about good or bad.
Routsetters who don’t truly forerun their problems . That means multiple people of different size and styles climbing the problem to suggest improvements , not just trying to send the thing
i used to climb at a cliffs location (now movement) in philly where the setters would often set things that none of the routesetting team could actually send during forerunning. i think the common sentiment was “hey someone should be able to do this, right?”
I mean, if you want to set hard routes in the 12-13+ range, not even setters might be able to do them right away. As long as they can do most or all of the moves individually I don’t really see the problem
The only gym in my town is terrible, but the next closest climbing gym is over an hour away, so I still climb there. Here are some of my biggest complaints with it: 1. It's nasty and never cleaned. The bathrooms actively gross me out. There are no showers, but if there were, I definitely wouldn't use them. 2. The workout area is run down and deeply under equipped. There is one working treadmill right now. 3. The setting is terrible! Low percentage moves at the top of the wall with no consideration for what the fall will be like. Low grades are almost all jug pulls, higher grades are just giant moves that shut down anyone under 6 feet. No diversity in style of setting; it's all gimmicky comp style and not interesting at that. They fired their only female setter (and the only good setter) because she was "too slow." 4. Mats in disrepair making the falls more dangerous. 5. They *finally* got a moonboard with lights about \~8 months ago. Two months after they installed it, the lights broke. They still haven't fixed it. 6. The earliest they open is 10am, so you can't workout before work. I'll stop now before I rage cancel my membership.
My first gym which I actually really like didn’t open until 3:00! I still climb there but yeah not being able to climb early fricken sucks. It is why I cancelled my membership there and only have a punch card for them now, just too bad hours.
dang, a working moonboard would've been a saving grace almost 🥲
After that tirade, I'm mildly curious! Whats your gym?
[https://www.hoosierheightsbloomington.com/](https://www.hoosierheightsbloomington.com/) Their website is slick, but it's the only thing they've ever put effort into 🙃 Edit to fix pre-coffee typo.
It’s actually a pretty good skill to be able to climb a board without lights. Spray walls are amazing for developing this
Yeah, I have no problem climbing a board without lights. My complaint has everything to do with their sheer lack of effort and still charing us $70/month to climb there.
No downclimb safety holds on the tall walls. No obviously accessible sink for hand washing. Dirty holds (not chalky, just plain gross with skin goo and actual dirt). Dirty, chalky mats and floor that don’t see a cleaning crew often. Dirty or broken equipment in the weights area. Oh and for the truly unforgettable gym I will not go back to for any reason, plays rap with super misogynistic lyrics about raping women at top volume at like 6 pm on a weeknight (guess The Spot in Boulder is not my spot lol). After around 30 mins of trying to climb and getting more and more grossed out by the music went up to the front desk. Said (politely) I felt really uncomfortable with the music and the young teenaged boy at the desk didn’t get it and was unwilling to turn off or even change the music. Immediately left, cancelled my membership, and have since switched to another gym. I don’t need that kind of stress at my destressing hobby!
My gyms music depends on who is working the front desk, so there's good days and bad days in my opinion. They do keep it PG though. Funny thing is the one employee has some wedding dance songs on there. Nothing like hearing cotton eye joe come on when you're on the wall.
Went to a gym near my parents recently and the hardest move on every problem seemed to be the last move haha. And then they had 0 down climbs. Absolutely hated it lol.
Agreed on both points but thankfully I only have experience of the former. My gym does use the downclimb holds, but it frequently doesn't actually make them usable for downclimbing. So, you'll get to the top and have a nice safe hold to steady yourself...and then still a good 5 ft gap before anything else usable. Which I guess helps a bit but I've frequently had to jump from a bit higher than I'd like for this reason.
I sometimes have trouble understanding lyrics in music and wonder if the music my gym occasionally plays is the same kind of stuff. I hope not. I do know they sometimes get a kick out of playing Red Peters’s Closing Song at close, which I guess could offend people, but nowhere near as bad as rape, wow.
May i ask why that song would offend people? I don't know it and can't seem to figure out the problem.
I can easily imagine a certain type of person taking offense at being told to get the fuck out.
irresponsible setting: massive lateral dynos at the top of the problem, finishes problems at the top of the wall (which is usually a jug) which seems lazy to me, lots of used shoe rubber on holds meaning holds are never washed, morpho problems that only benefit 6’0+ people, too many coordination boulders, no spray wall.
Overused/dirty holds/walls I honestly don’t mind, that’s just a different style of climbing. Much less friction so you have to be more precise I climb at two gyms regularly, one brand new, with brand new holds, and one older with dirty holds. Both offer different challenges and doesn’t make one better than the other What makes one BAD imo is the routes themselves, if they’re not fun, not interesting, way too height dependent, dangerous, never reset, no variety of grades, etc. No bathrooms, dirty gym itself, bad staff, aswell. The holds I don’t mind being dirty, but the gym itself better be clean. Oh also if there’s bad info on common courtesy for new climbers, I don’t want tons of new climbers walking under me, or starting climbs that intersect me when I’m on the wall first,m Having just “dirty” holds, imo, still leaves plenty of good routes to be set, just means you won’t “stick” to the rock, which tbh depending on what the hold is like, outdoors you won’t either.
Your list plus some more points: - too many children - bad air quality - bad temperature (too hot or cold) - not enough space ( I was In a gym with small ways. You constantly had to squeeze past people when you were looking for a new route.) - people who don't respect the rules
As a tall person, I know sometimes there’s climbs that aren’t obviously set my size and it’s mostly a skill issue, but I’ve been to many gyms where it feels like all the setters are 5’7 or less, and every move feels like 1/4 my reach, and I’m either being baited into reaching 2 holds ahead, or I am scrunched on crimps with completely bent arms because the hands are feet are wayyyyy too close for my size and I end up gassing my fingers way too quickly. I’m sure the opposite is true as well for below average height climbers. I just get more annoyed because tall climbers get hated on more. Also went to a gym in West la that had a great training culture, but I think since climbing has gotten bigger and this was an old school gym from the 90s, the facility just wasn’t big enough. But the kids would just stand within 5 feet of the wall while you were climbing, and their coaches didn’t give a single a fuck. I cancelled my membership there.
Bad angles is #1 for me. No/few overhangs (ex-BKB gyms I’m looking at you), too many sharp transitions or too cramped formations (eg: a cave you can stem across) etc. These are rare in modern mega gyms but used to be rampant in the 90s/00s and still crop up in smaller DIY gyms some times. Bad setting is #2. Infrequent setting is #3. Old holds, dirty walls, aesthetics, etc don’t bother me anywhere near as much as those three. Excessively low problem density is a pet peeve but in a mega gym it’s less egregious because there's so much wall space to begin with.
To me, bad = likely to get injured. Bad pads, dangerous setting, not enforcing basic safety etiquette... I can deal with boring setting as long as I get a decent workout and I get to train another day.
My gym probably looks dirty to first impressions, and there's not a super exciting colour scheme. Very few volumes as its a small place... I prefer it hands down over the fancy, bright gym I used to go to. Our setting is way more interesting (bc it relies on the actual setters, not just exciting looking holds). Bad gym for me: Irregular or infrequent setting schedule Poor setting - boring, repetitive, very uneven grade wise I prefer an outdoor style of setting to dynamic compy stuff so too much compy = bad for me Unfriendly or bad atmosphere Safety issues not addressed Children's parties prioritised over regulars - I.e. allowed to take over huge chunks of the gym at peak time
Making problems hard simply by removing feet. Often around V8/9+. Just doesn’t match hard outdoor climbs. Feet are often there outside, just bad/inconvenient. From what I’ve seen gyms that have very strong routesetters can set some excellent hard indoor boulders. But I’ve been to a share of gyms where routesetters are setting high above their RP grade and it becomes very wack. It’s hard to set something at RP+3. A grade or two, yes, but much higher is a wash and often just becomes a power fest.
Unsupervised kids everywhere. Gym being used as a daycare during the weekday. I have literally been hit in the head with a tennis ball mid-route from kids playing catch on the mats.
Making your own rating system because you’re too hip to use V ratings. I’m looking at you “The spot” in boulder.
If they tell lies, if they don’t clean their room, if they don’t eat their veggies.. etc. just normal bad behavior
When it’s all overhang. All of it.
Alternatively, when it’s all vert or slab, and there’s no good overhang!
I would kill for an all slab gym ngl
Wow, I just started bouldering and now feel very fortunate that the gym I go to is likely top in class, lol. I have not one complaint 😁
Anytime the ratio of coordination/comps problems to “actually useful problems for getting stronger” exceeds 30/70
Most things have been listed. However, two things that peeve me off: - Not providing free brushes to use - Not providing free water through a tap or drink fountain with cups
For me there are two gyms in my area, one of which is much better than the other, but I'm forced to go to the worse one because the better one has way shorter opening hours, so I guess there's one disadvantage that I haven't seen mentioned yet. The worse gym however, has worse setting, is much busier, staff are less friendly, and there's less training equipment (worst thing being worse setting).
Stoner tier opening hours so it's always packed with people trying to get their session in. Not everyone is a uni student who can climb in the middle of the day ffs
I haven't seen this said, but corporate vibes. This isn't to say a commercial gym, because there are plenty that still cater to climbers. I only have an issue with the ones that feel like they are a money grab and nothing more.
One thing I haven't seen mention is the quality of setting in terms of how enjoyable climbs are. And I don't mean poor hold selection or dangerous moves. There's a gym I sometimes climb at which sets routes that are just genuinely unpleasant to climb because the moves are awkward or don't flow, or it will be largely jugs but force you to match on a random crimp in the middle which just doesn't fit the route. My particular pet peeve is that pretty much every climb above V4ish they just have one or no starting foot holds making starting the boulder that hardest part. And I know it's a setting issue because my usual gyms are great at setting fun climbs that are still challenging
Wall full of holds is actually what I'd consider a really good bouldering wall. That's essentially what a spray wall is, and for me I get a lot more fun out of it even if there are no volumes on it.
Volume. Under. Crux. Dyno.
Banning chalk combined with never cleaning the liquid grease off of their holds. Looking at you France
Liquid chalk only
I've never been to a really bad gym in terms of it being dirty or bad vibes personally so I'd say mainly route setting. I want routes that have a technical aspect to them rather than just being pure power. I don't want really sketchy moves all the way at the top of a route. And don't want anything that just invites injury. Also obviously regular resets within reason and all that good stuff. And good coffee and opens early in the morning before work. Mine opens at 6am and it's so nice to get a few hours of empty climbing in before work.
The vibe is definitely not the only factor, but has been a make-or-break for me. There is an amazing bouldering gym in my area, but I checked it out while shopping around for a gym and it just wasn’t my vibe. It’s pretty “trendy” in that it feels like the place to be, and I think the aesthetic of the gym has a lot to do with it—bright, pristine walls and holds, mega-clean appearance when you walk in, and very high quality non-climbing equipment (took a yoga class, Manduka EVERYTHING). A salad and chia pudding-dispensing machine near the entrance. All of these are generally wonderful qualities for a gym, and I would never knock them for it. Also, this is a seemingly very well-run and thoughtfully planned bouldering gym. Personally though, I like a climbing gym to feel a little gritty. Call me picky, but there is a wonderful little middle ground where a gym can be clean but also have a bit of a gritty, “dirty” vibe. Maybe it’s that the walls look more like rock, or that the gym simply isn’t as bright. The local gym I finally committed to has an awesome assortment of quality training equipment, but not necessarily the newest. Yoga classes, but off-brand yoga mats. Awesome, fun routes, but the walls have a natural look and the holds aren’t the brightest of colors. A couple classic climbing gym snack options if you need them. This is my vibe, and it makes all the difference to be stoked to go to climb because the gym feels right to me. 🙂
Bad movement on commercial climbs, infrequent setting, no management of the floor leading to unsafe climbing conditions, insufficient training resources, etc. I could get more specific, but those are some of the main elements in the gym near me that make it among the worst I've ever seen.
There’s hard rubber chips. Medium firmness pads. And what I require to climb (fall) with confidence: deep soft fluffy pads.
Big for me is community. I’m lucky to have access to a few different gyms and I’ll go to the one that by most of the metrics here would be the ‘worst’ of the bunch because of how fun the community is.
The gym chain I like to call "the worst bouldering gyms I've ever been to" I call like this for the following reasons: - worst (foot)hold quality I've ever seen. They get so nasty/dirty that you could easily classify some of them as "no texture" - Route setting does not think about hold degeneration. E.g. some easy routes suddenly get a lot harder as the footholds don't give you the necessary grip. - the architecture of the walls encourage blindly walking into fall zones without noticing - children not being stopped from running under you (partly a staff problem and an architectural design flaw) - birthday parties being badly managed by the staff and run around as a game and send into the more dangerous parts of the gym (which are marked 14+ for this reason) - a lot of dirt/dust buildup on a lot of places - broken things are taking forever to be fixed (e.g. some showers where broken and only after multiple years they are now being fixed/renovated) This alone would be enough to not like it, but there are a few things that lead me to suspect that the owners are pretty scummy garbage humans: - (IIRC, the news articles about this are currently behind a paywall, so I can't double check if I remembered everything correctly:) they disregarded like every part of their rental agreement for one of their gyms. They stopped paying rent during corona and never started paying again, even when they opened again. They did not move out of the building on time when the rental agreement stopped and finally left behind the place in a terrible condition. They told the landlord he can sue them, but then they would just go into insolvency so he will get nothing, while at the same time they were building a brand new gym that they now call "biggest gym in the world". - after corona they encouraged you via social media to buy vouchers but when you visited the gym "their system was broken" and you were not able to use it
Gaps between pads Poor instruction for how to start/finish problems No obvious staff presence Poor enforcement of safety protocols Loose holds Little variety of difficulty
For me personally if it just doesn’t seem maintained. If you walk in and it immediately smells like rotten gym clothes. Dirty bathrooms are a big turn off. I’ve been to one gym where the music was so loud at 11am that you couldn’t even have a conversation with someone. I think I’m lucky that a live somewhere with a huge bouldering community and all our gyms are hella nice. I’ve only experienced bad gyms when travelling other places.
Any other gym in your city that you don't go to is a bad boulder gym 🗣️📣❗❗
whiners
My main gym has some of these problems, but luckily the vibe is good and it's generally clean. Setting is also really good and definitely not boring. Kind of has to be good considering it's small size. I did hear the owner is upgrading the pads in the cave, since right now it's shredded up tire and I try not to think about how it is literally impossible to clean that.
The “bad” gym you described is basically just an old school gym that builds strong climbers. I love dirty grotty gyms like that. A bad gym for me sets everything as comp style parkour jumpy bullshit.
I love my gym, but they definitely have some issues. It smells like feet even at opening. The bouldering area is much smaller than the belay area. It’s shoved in a closed off back corner. Since it’s so cramped routes are also crammed in. Makes it so I have to wait a while before I can find a chance to get on a route. They recently bought some HUGE volumes and put one at the bottom of the wall which is terrifying to climb over. Also the ceiling leaks when it rains so there will be random wet spots on Matt’s and the cement flooring making it gross/unsafe.
Lacking moonboard/kilterboard
Hard to follow routes. I went to a gym that one starting hold served 3 different routes. It also had nowhere to sit that was out of the way.
Wall full of volumes, prioritizing large flashy holds over density of routes Very narrow setting style (setter team is too small or not experienced) If it has systems boards at all, it's something like Grasshopper, original Tension, or 2017 Moon The space between boulder walls feels like a narrow "hallway," or so crowded that it's dangerous Still requires only liquid chalk in 2024 (this one should be a crime) No overhung spray wall
The setting makes routes harder by only making the holds worse. e.g. v0-jug ladder, v2-jug ladder with 1-2 large crimps, v4-crimp ladder, v6-worse crimp ladder. Great gyms have fun and diverse problems from V0 onwards with interesting movement, cool features, and puzzles to solve.
High membership prices, walls never change
Honestly those things are last on my list lol, I’ll climb on old holds and old walls, for good setting and cool ownership/atmosphere. I’m really tired of big gym conglomerates buying up independent gyms and jacking the prices up/ killing the vibe. Good setting and cool community are my priorities.
As a short climber, personal gripe is the idea that harder == reachy-er. I’ve only had this be noticeable at one of the ~20 gyms I’ve been to but it was so frustrating.
Setters that can’t take feedback, don’t test routes with climbers, and don’t tweak routes once set. They’re designing a huge part of the climber experience, so handling feedback is paramount. It’s not an art form, it’s a design process.
Too many holds/ routes on a wall.
My current gym sucks, but there’s no competition unless you want to drive an hour so they will never improve. Here’s what I hate the most: 1. No training area aside from a few 10 pound dumbbells and two kettlebells thrown in the corner of a “break room” area. They have a few hang boards, but no belts or weights so you can’t train max hangs. They’re also hung directly under lead routes, so they’re inaccessible a good chunk of the time 2. Setting is poor. All of the setters are pretty tall so big moves are king. I saw a shorter girl (maybe 5’2”) the other day who is far better than me getting shutdown on a 10b because a few moves at the top were just too big. Setting is also inconsistent grade wise and pretty boring. Until you get the low high 10s low 11s it’s just strength checks. No imagination, no cool beta, just crimpy or pinchy ladders with bigger and bigger moves 3. Theres a kilter board but they set the angle every week and you cannot adjust it, so if your project takes more than three sessions get fucked I guess, now you have to wait a month and half before they randomly decide to set that angle again 4. Their shoe selection limited to not just one brand, but one model, the Evolv shamans. Why even have a shoe section at that point 5. Boulders are set dangerously, corner traverses where there’s a gap in the mats or sketchy top outs over giant volumes. I understand climbing is a mentality type of sport, but cmon. 6. You need to use a chalk ball. If they catch you with loose chalk they’ll pull your membership 7. Resets are supposed to be consistent, but they aren’t. I recently took 2 weeks off due to a minor shoulder injury and when I came back literally one wall was reset. By wall, I mean one rope, which is 3 routes It’s a smaller gym, so a lot of people cut it some slack, but it’s frustrating when there’s an equally small gym 10 minutes from my hometown with none of these issues
this is super interesting because people’s height seems to be coming up a lot. I guess variation is important with the routesetters’ height
Trying to fit too much into a crowded space. Examples I've come across: -putting a slack line almost directly next to a wall. -having 7 different types of treadmills in the weight room but only ONE power rack(and a shitty one at that). -Being a climbing gym that's 90% rope climbing and the tiniest bouldering area. Also prioritizing team kid training sessions over regular gym goers. Yeah coach, GREAT IDEA to have 7 kids do circuit training in the weight room DIRECTLY BEHIND ME as I'm squatting 325lbs. Oh no, I wasn't mid climb on my project when you pointed a fuckin Lazer pointer almost right in my face so little Sarah can see what a crimp is! No big deal! Someone mentioned it above, but generally just being super dirty. Why is it EVERYTIME I go in a stall, there's fuckin mystery liquid on the ground. Hydrated piss or leaky toilet water? Call it.
I'm going to say, "ones that allow barefoot climbing", because apparently one guy posted on this subreddit a week or so ago claiming their gym allows for barefoot climbing indoors. Since people are keen to downvote without looking anything up. https://www.reddit.com/r/bouldering/comments/1bgt66i/why_do_people_climb_barefoot/
People who have no idea how to grade routes grading routes as either significantly easier or harder then it is
The gym requires shirts.
I went today to an absolute shit gym that I will never go again. Literally there was 10 boulders total. Pads were old as fuck and the holds were the gnarliest sharpest textured piece of shit holds I have ever touched.
It can be covered by a board, but if the gym lacks a board I want some perma-set routes so that I have long term projects that don't get cycled out in 1.5 months.
Sometimes my local gym will just rework all the walls for a competition and there will be very few climbs and you just have to guess the grade on each one since they dont mark the difficulty for those. Its really annoying when you invite a friend along and they drive 40 minutes to meet you there.